Late Night Gentrification Open Thread: The Arrogance of Privilege

Even thirty years ago, when I worked on the campus of a Midwestern sports-powerhouse state university, the ongoing joke was that the administration counted on the revenue from parking enforcement almost as much as from stadium tickets!

Fellow DC gentrifiers add, Hold my beer baby –

Since I am an old, I found the replies to that tweet entertaining…

158 replies
  1. 1
    patrick II says:

    I’m betting the guy who says “It’s our community and that’s how it should be” has voted for every right wing private property, no socialism,capitalism is king, candidate for years.

  2. 2
    My Side of Town says:

    Since I was moderated off the last thread, let me ask again if anyone has information on the WH rebuttal to the Mueller report?

  3. 3

    …I mean. Demands for kid-friendly bars? What’s next? Will they demand kid-friendly strip clubs? Kid-friendly porn theatres? If the issue is that you lack funds for a babysitter, maybe your anger is better directed at the system that deprives you of income/childcare rather then at the businesses that aren’t for your fucking kids.

  4. 4
    Chetan Murthy says:

    I remember at Rice in the mid-80s, there was one day a year where they closed all the drives & gates. This was in order to comply with a state law that said that otherwise, the roads became state property. Of course all the sidewalks, lawns, etc were private property, but they were careful to ensure that the entire campus stayed private property.

    These entitled jerks, thinking they own Howard University. Idiots. They need to be ticketed into oblivion.

  5. 5
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))): There’s a couple of bars around here (typically more like resto with a bar attached) that are kid-friendly. And sure I find it quite charming. But that’s it: it’s charming. Not necessary. As you and “Regular Black” say, “get a babysitter, you entitled pricks”.

  6. 6
    opiejeanne says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))): Yeah, bars? They’re complaining that bars aren’t kid-friendly?

  7. 7
    Leto says:

    Seriously, who the hell brings their kids to a bar? Get a damned babysitter. I totally get it that parents want some adult time, but don’t inflict your screaming kid on the other people who want to enjoy their time out. You’re just being an asshole.

    Edit: I’ll sill say this: a number of pubs in England had family sections. If you brought your kids (small kids), you could go hang out there. But it was separate, and away, from the main area. And it had limited seating. About four tables/booths. Past that, leave your crotch spawn at home until they’re well behaved enough to be brought out in public.

  8. 8
    Sab says:

    Kid friendly bars!? Have all parents lost their minds?

    Reminds me of seeing a new mother with her kid in a snugli nursing a beer as she bought groceries in our local Giant Eagle grocery.

  9. 9
    Mike in DC says:

    People are getting drunk at bars. How do you have a kid-friendly environment with drunk people?

  10. 10
    My Side of Town says:

    We have kid friendly smoking bars in some counties (Polk) in Florida, until 8 pm. after which it’s 21 or in some counties (Pascoe) no kids and 25 if it’s smoking. Depends on the county. Local government at its best. But it doesn’t affect me, so I don’t care. I like they have a dozen clothing optional resorts in Pascoe. I may go to one some day as a bucket list thing.

  11. 11
    Damien says:

    Headlines I’d love to see:
    “Responsibly Childfree Adults Struggle to Find Kid-Unfriendly Movie Theater”
    “Irresponsible Parents Turned Away from West Hollywood Costume Parade, Told ‘Lots of Penises to be Visible'”

    No joke, I hear parents at the WeHo Parade complaining about the skimpy costumes and bitching to organizers about not having anything kid-friendly. Yeah, BECAUSE IT’S FOR ADULTS YOU MORONS.

    But that bearded guy is a dickhead.

  12. 12
    Mnemosyne says:

    White people gotta ruin everything. 😡

    Most college campuses do allow use by the surrounding neighborhood residents, within limits. They can often ask to access the library, or buy tickets to sports events, or pay to use campus facilities for a community event.

    But walk their dogs there as a regular thing? Yeah, no. That’s fucking rude.

  13. 13
    EmbraceYourInnerCrone says:

    I live in CT and people here do it all the time. We have about 80 small/craft breweries as well and while I do not mind the leased and well behaved dogs at all, the 2, 4, and 6 year olds screaming and racing around while their parents get tipsy and ignore them, drive me absolutely bats. I go to drinking establishments to relax after work, I do not need to be knee-capped by your toddler. If that makes me a cranky old asshole, I’m good with that.

  14. 14
    My Side of Town says:

    The clothing optional resorts are kid friendly depending on the time of day, but all have bars that serve all day (not kids). Florida.

  15. 15
    Leto says:

    @Mike in DC: I don’t know, but as you’re at the epicenter of this mom group protest, do you mind doing some on-the-ground research for us? :)

  16. 16
    Mike J says:

    Even thirty years ago, when I worked on the campus of a Midwestern sports-powerhouse state university, the ongoing joke was that the administration counted on the revenue from parking enforcement almost as much as from stadium tickets!

    I went to a Midwestern opposite of a sports powerhouse and townie-campus conflict was constant. And if it happened on the campus, the school always won. And vice-versa of course.

  17. 17

    @(((CassandraLeo))): … ugh. *rather than. The input was my phone’s fault, though not proofreading it was on me.

    I know this isn’t important at all, but it really bothers me, so I’m making this comment anyway.

  18. 18
    khead says:

    The DCist story makes me want to go on a drunken binge and just throw up all over little Kaitlyn and her mom Becky. I haven’t done that in decades but I can make an exception for those folks.

  19. 19
    My Side of Town says:

    I usually go to pool rooms, with full bars. They have pool leagues for juniors down to 10 years old. I’m ok with that. They don’t drink, just play pool.

  20. 20
    Soprano2 says:

    We had some kids in our bar/restaurant doing karaoke after 10 o’clock one night. Their parents were with them, of course. It was making a lot of people uncomfortable. The rule is no minors after the kitchen closes, which is midnight on the nights we have karaoke, but people with young kids are usually gone by 9 o’clock. Thankfully, they didn’t do that again. Yeah, “kid-friendly bar” is an oxymoron. Those people are selfish pricks. Go to a “family” restaurant if you want to take your little kids out.

  21. 21
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Parents say they struggle to find kid-friendly bars

    The Onion, as always, foresaw this..

  22. 22

    @Damien: there’s a theatre here that doesn’t allow kids in many (all?) of its showings after, I think, 6 pm. It’s unsurprisingly one of the best liked theatres around. Pricey though.

  23. 23
    Mnemosyne says:


    I read the article, and it sounds like a separate area for families with kids is what some people are touting (or, um, publicizing that their restaurant has … there’s an element of free advertising in that story). That makes sense to me — that way, the kids are kept away from the main part of the bar or restaurant and don’t bug everyone else.

    The parents who decide that a brewpub that has games should babysit their kids are assholes, though.

  24. 24
    Luthe says:

    @Damien: Ugh, that reminds me of all the underage kids in fandom who run around and complain about the porny fanfic, despite said porny fanfic being clearly marked as such. “Fandom should be kid-friendly!” they scream, while all us old coots roll our eyes and explain it never has been and they need to take responsibility for what they are reading.

    @Mnemosyne: It depends on the campus. At Bryn Mawr, dogs got petted by everyone, but then there weren’t many who walked on campus because there was plenty of green space around.

  25. 25
    dmsilev says:

    We have plenty of dog walkers on campus where I am, and as long as they behave they’re welcome. Behave means keep the dogs on leash/under control and clean up after the dogs. If someone chooses to abuse our hospitality, we’ll politely ask them to leave our (private) property.

    Very rarely, someone doesn’t take the polite hint, at which point the hints become less polite. Filing trespassing charges with the city police is the ultimate end point of that process, though that’s more for crackpots repeatedly insisting we listen to their new Grand Theory Of Everything rather than overentitled dog walkers.

  26. 26
    Luthe says:

    Ah, frell, can someone rescue me from moderation? I accidentally used one of the naughty words.

  27. 27
    Keith P. says:

    This happened at my college all the time, but it was really due to the college being in an old neighborhood, so people walked their dogs there. But there was also a dog park nearby. Race never factored into discussions over it AFAIK though. It’s more about neighbor entitlement….people in neighborhoods want everything to “belong” to the neighborhood, roads included.

  28. 28
    My Side of Town says:

    I think kids are better behaved than dogs. There is a lady who walks her dog down my street (private mobile home park) whose dog invariably takes a crap on my yard. I dream I go out and say “pick up after your dog”, but I’m usually in my underwear, so I don’t. I hate that women. I’m in a 55+ park so don’t see a lot of kids. When I do it’s enjoyable. I wish my kids were around.

  29. 29
    opiejeanne says:

    @Damien: LOL! Those people upset with the costumes in West Hollywood would wet their pants at the Fremont (Seattle) Solstice Parade, and little kids participate in it.

  30. 30
    Damien says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))): If only it were actually just children, instead of jackass people in general talking through movies. I went to go see Us, which was granted hard to parse, but several people were just discussing the movie at full volume the entire time.

    Hmmmm…..maybe the entire thing can just be boiled down to people being entitled jackasses?

  31. 31
    opiejeanne says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))): We usually go to movies in the morning, and it usually works. Except for that one time when two women showed up with six toddlers in tow and ignored them. The theater had only a handful of people in it but those kids located and annoyed the shit out of everyone there.

  32. 32
    My Side of Town says:

    So. I’m just going to ramble on since you probably think I’m a troll or republican, and see if I can get through moderation on every message. By way of introduction, I have been lurking here since “The Poor Man” convinced our host to be liberal. I live in Florida in a 55+ mobile home park. Lakeland. Pretty close to where Betty Cracker used to live (Betty is my favorite FP). Moved here two years ago from the reddest county in Indiana, seeking a more liberal environment, only to find Polk county is not it. LOL. Still like the weather.

  33. 33
    PJ says:

    @My Side of Town: @My Side of Town: I’m confused. Are these trailer parks that have more than 55 units, or that only accept residents that are older than 55? Wouldn’t the latter be illegal?

  34. 34
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @My Side of Town: Welcome to the crowd of commentors! You should have better weather than in Indiana, save for hurricane season. I’m glad you’re stepping out of lurkerdom.

  35. 35
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @My Side of Town: You’re out of moderation.

  36. 36
    Kent says:

    There’s not a leafy green campus bordering a residential area anywhere in the country where there aren’t some degree of conflicts between the public and the college. That’s normal at every place I’ve ever lived. Not sure why this is even in the news. Howard just needs to put up some signs and some doggie bag dispensers like everywhere else. Or put up walls and a gate. Hire some students to patrol the place if need be, if there are too many dogs off leash or too many people leaving waste behind.

    As for the kids in bars? For real? I’ve got 3 kids. Can’t imagine trying to take them to actual bars. Out here in the Portland area we do have a bazillion brew pubs with food where there are always kids with families. Anyway, businesses can do what they want. If they want to cater to the mommy bar market then have at it. I’ll go elsewhere.

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Luthe: You weren’t in moderation. You were in Spam. I don’t know why, but I’ve dug you out.

  38. 38
    hervevillechaizelounge says:

    @My Side of Town:

    Welcome to the fun and fast-paced world of BJ commenting, My Side of Town; may your jokes always land and your pie filter remain troll-free!

  39. 39
    Doug R says:

    Out here, UBC is surrounded by the University Endowment Lands, unceded aboriginal land and Pacific Spirit Park. Also the nude beach is basically on campus. There’s actually a RCMP detachment to enforce laws inside the endowment lands and the campus. They spend a lot of time some years busting drug sellers on the beach, don’t know how that’s going now with legalization.The university also built a lot of commercially sold housing, I don’t think it’s student related so the campus/UEL/residential/commercial is all one big mess. Of course it helps that the University is built on the edge of Vancouver and provides a hard boundary on Vancouver’s western edge.

  40. 40
    Kent says:

    @My Side of Town:

    I think kids are better behaved than dogs. There is a lady who walks her dog down my street (private mobile home park) whose dog invariably takes a crap on my yard. I dream I go out and say “pick up after your dog”, but I’m usually in my underwear, so I don’t. I hate that women. I’m in a 55+ park so don’t see a lot of kids. When I do it’s enjoyable. I wish my kids were around.

    See, there’s your problem. You gotta embrace your inner Floridian. Walk out there in a dirty wifebeater t-shirt and boxers and a rusty old shotgun. She’ll start taking a wide berth.

  41. 41
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’m heading back offline for the evening. So if you wind up in moderation or the spam folder I’m not going to be around to fish you out. So just have a bit of patience. Hopefully someone will eventually be along and get you dug out of there.

  42. 42
    My Side of Town says:

    My wife died of sclc four years ago and I spent the last four years drowning in grief. We had been married for 49 years. Sclc is small cell lung cancer. She didn’t smoke. She had no chance.

    I’m getting better. Play league pool 5 nights a week and go to the YMCA for silver sneakers 5 days. Meeting people. Even though everyone I meet seems to be a Trump acolyte!!

  43. 43
    Kent says:


    @Damien: LOL! Those people upset with the costumes in West Hollywood would wet their pants at the Fremont (Seattle) Solstice Parade, and little kids participate in it.

    Is that the parade with all the nude cyclists? I remember something like that back in the 90s when I was at UW. Not where I’d take my little kids I don’t think.

  44. 44
    My Side of Town says:

    @PJ: Florida is full of 55+ parks. We despise younger people // But the underage women we tolerate. LOL

  45. 45
    Martin says:

    There’s a lot of pretty social bars around here. Don’t see people getting drunk often. Upscale sports bars, tiki bars, gastropubs, etc. Usually a good menu, kids are pretty common. Bars of the type I remember from NYC basically don’t exist here.

  46. 46
    My Side of Town says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Thanks AF. I was born in Twin Falls. Weather is worse down here. I much prefer the desert,

  47. 47
    Kent says:

    Some years ago I went to a very nice italian restaurant in Buenos Aires that had a kids section in the back behind glass. Kind of like the ball room at Ikea with play stuff and movies. Couple of HS age girls back there looking after kids. Families would come, feed the kiddos a quick bowl of spaghetti and send them off to the kid room while they’d sit around for the next hour drinking wine and socializing without kids underfoot. You paid by the hour to check your kid into the kid room and the girls got tips.

    I thought the idea was brilliant. I’m surprised that I’ve never seen anything like it here.

  48. 48
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Chetan Murthy: To me, the question is whether the Howard U campus is, for lack of a better word, a contiguous campus like Rice. IOW is there a tract of land one might throw a fence around such that everything inside the fence – including the roads as well as sidewalks, grounds, buildings – is owned by Howard U?

    In that case, Howard is perfectly within its rights to restrict access to any & all parts of the contiguous campus, including ticketing for unauthorized access.

    But if not, then Howard has no right to unilaterally restrict access to those areas not owned by the school. For example, if the roads through the area are owned & maintained by DC or Federal government, the university cannot unilaterally limit their use to those associated with the school. Many European urban universities are a collection of buildings scattered among city streets (IIRC the Sorbonne a good example). And then there are hybrids.

    In Baltimore (h/t to CharmCityChap tweet in the thread header) we have three university campuses. Johns Hopkins at Homewood is essentially a contiguous campus (although San Martin Drive may still be city-owned). The University of Baltimore is a European-style urban campus with its buildings scattered amongst a network of quite busy streets with traffic & parking controlled by the city. And Morgan State University is hybrid, contiguous with important exceptions – east Cold Spring Lane bisects the campus, and the school recently expanded westward across Perring Parkway; both busy public thoroughfares.

    Anyhow, does anyone know the status of the Howard campus?

  49. 49
    My Side of Town says:


    Thank you. And best to you too.

  50. 50
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Looks mostly contiguous (and compact) to me.

    Regardless, even if they can’t control the roads, they -can- control who gets to walk on their lawns, right?

  51. 51
    plato says:

    More on that move the campus bigot idiot.

    Then he said this. Whole account deleted now apparently.— CT Gallo (@GallosPole57) April 19, 2019

    Soooo I'm going to take an educated guess here… He not only didn't attend an English class at Howard he skipped the Community College option as well.— Kisha Brownlee (@SneakherSlut) April 19, 2019

  52. 52
    Ohio Mom says:

    @My Side of Town: It’s always nice to see someone un-lurk, hope you stick around.

    Compared to you, I’m a newcomer. I arrived about the same time Rosie did. Cole had already completed his political transformation. I only learned he had once been a conservative by piecing asides and comments together.

    Belated condolences on the loss of your beloved. I seem to remember hearing that most people who have lung cancer are not in fact smokers but the urge to blame victims in our culture is so strong that everyone adds “not a smoker” in self defense. Those of us who get other cancers get off easy in that regard.

  53. 53
    My Side of Town says:

    @Kent: Yeah. I’d be happy if she walked her dog on the other side of the street. The Canadians have already left. LOL

  54. 54
    NotMax says:

    Herewith declare dibs on trademarking the Upchuck E. Cheese franchise.


  55. 55

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m heading back offline for the evening. So if you wind up in moderation or the spam folder I’m not going to be around to fish you out. So just have a bit of patience. Hopefully someone will eventually be along and get you dug out of there.

    I will keep an eye out!

  56. 56
    Jay says:

    @Doug R:

    Yay for Wreck Beach and Watermellon Girl!!!!!!!!!

  57. 57
    mrmoshpotato says:

    The hell? Want kid-friendly bars, then adults get adult-only McDonald’s ball pits. My brother and sister-in-law take their kids to a church near them that used to be a Walmart or something, but the majority of the place is a wide open space for the kids to run around, play catch, etc.

    Anyway, it has a foam block pit, and I always want to jump on it myself.

    It’s only fair to us kidless adults who would have to put up with little kids while unwinding after work.

    Let the hate mail begin.

    Also, fuck that bearded white dude.

  58. 58
    trollhattan says:

    Tried for several minutes tonight to explain a gas fire pit to a nice German lady tonight. “I have not seen such a thing before.” Kind of decided they’re too silly to merit a defense but as it was cold tonight, it became a draw for the group.

    We have our Deutscher exchange student now for two weeks but my kid dragged her to a birthday party so we’ll just see who gets any sleep. Luckily, once she arrives at our house the bed will require no instructions. Not as sure about the plumbing.

    Happy Easter to you early time zone folks.

  59. 59
    Gretchen says:

    @My Side of Town: Welcome. I’m sorry for your loss and glad that you are finding things that help. I hope BJ helps too.

  60. 60
  61. 61
    Sstarr says:

    I think it’s sad that many of our city centers have become giant kid-free zones. The lack of kid friendly spaces in urban areas forces many to leave the city for the suburbs. I wish our cities weren’t set up like that.

    In Seattle there are many neighborhood brew pubs that are kid friendly. They work fine. People like them. Kids don’t get drunk. It’s a bit like Europe, actually. It wouldn’t be a bad thing if a few bars like that opened up in DC.

  62. 62
    Gretchen says:

    It wouldn’t have occurred to me that walking a dog on the campus would be a problem, and it sounds like it’s not a problem for all the students? Maybe put up “No dogs” signs if that’s what the majority of the students want. I don’t think the average person would realize it might be a problem.

  63. 63
    Mary G says:

    Very early no real details, but apparently someone bombed at least three churches and 5-star hotels in Sri Lanka. At least 80 people injured.

    News out of Sri Lanka looks bad. At least two churches and two hotels have been bombed on Easter Sunday morning.— Scott Stedman (@ScottMStedman) April 21, 2019

    Happy Easter!

  64. 64
    Redshift says:


    “Responsibly Childfree Adults Struggle to Find Kid-Unfriendly Movie Theater”

    A multiplex near us has one theater with fancier seating and in-theater food service, and the tickets cost more. We’ve seen movies there because there will be no kids.

  65. 65
    rikyrah says:

    @My Side of Town:
    Sorry for your loss 😪😢
    Coming back from that ..hugs

  66. 66
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:
    @Chetan Murthy:

    From what I can gather, what people are so angry about is that neighborhood residents are letting their dogs shit on the central courtyard of the campus, aka The Yard, which is an important symbol of campus life in addition to being a heavily trafficked area, which means people keep stepping in dogshit when they’re trying to get to class on time.

    Getty Images has a very nice drone flyover view of The Yard so you can see (a) how clearly it is not a public street or public park and (b) how obviously assholish it is for people to let their dogs shit there without cleaning it up:

  67. 67
    rikyrah says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:
    The “yard” in question has been designated a national landmark

  68. 68
    Ruckus says:

    I live in CA in an apartment complex that the person on the lease has to be over 55. They are common in a lot of parts of CA. There are different programs run by cities, and by HUD. Mom lived in a mobil home park and then an apartment complex under the same rules. Often the rent is lower than the surrounding area, which it is in my case and was for mom. They are income limited such that some one who could easily afford standard rent wouldn’t be approved. So we have a man of about 30 who lives with his grandmother and some in their 90s but with most over 55 and retired. Red lights and ambulances are not uncommon.

  69. 69
    Mnemosyne says:


    AFAICT, it’s not the dogs, per se. It’s that people are not cleaning up after their dogs and leaving dog shit all over the lawn of the campus.

  70. 70
    Doug R says:


    I think it’s sad that many of our city centers have become giant kid-free zones.

    If housing were actually affordable, it would solve so many problems including traffic congestion, urban sprawl and kid unfriendly zones.

  71. 71
    Doug R says:


    “Responsibly Childfree Adults Struggle to Find Kid-Unfriendly Movie Theater”

    A multiplex near us has one theater with fancier seating and in-theater food service, and the tickets cost more. We’ve seen movies there because there will be no kids.

    The biggest theatre chain near us has VIP screens where the top release or two of the week show for only 21+. I believe liquor is served there. I remember seeing theaters like that in Portland and Washington state as well.

  72. 72
    Jay says:


    Here, the Campus’s have imported dogs.

    It’s a big hit, people choose these schools in part because of the communal dogs,

    But then, most of us pick up our dog’s shit here and properly control our dogs, on leash or off.

  73. 73
    Ruckus says:

    Wanna bet they are doing this on purpose, making a “statement?”

  74. 74
    My Side of Town says:

    My@Ohio Mom: We lived in Cincinnati for about 10 years during the Big Red Machine years. Loved living there. The Reds, Skyline Chile, Findlay Market, Bengals and so much more. My kids grew up there. That is where the vietnam war became an issue with me.

  75. 75
    A Streeter says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    is there a tract of land one might throw a fence around such that everything inside the fence – including the roads as well as sidewalks, grounds, buildings – is owned by Howard U?

    Howard employee here. Yes, that is the case. Howard’s ownership extends to several of the streets along and passing through its campus. Actual (albeit temporary) fences are indeed erected for occasions such as commencements.

  76. 76
    Mnemosyne says:


    Of course they are. That’s why people on the campus are so pissed.

    And now those jerks are going to ruin it for any neighborhood residents who may have liked to just walk around and admire the historic campus like normal people do when they have something cool in their neighborhood.

    This is why we can’t have nice things.

  77. 77
    Jay says:


    Yup, assholes gotta asshole.

  78. 78
    My Side of Town says:

    @Luthe: Frell. I just watched the entire Farscape 100 hours.

  79. 79
    Jay says:


    Unha, unha, double yup.

    Digger used to have to crap on trees. It was a PITA, still picked it up.

  80. 80
    Mnemosyne says:

    @A Streeter:

    I hope I’m summarizing the controversy correctly. I’m going off the story on Very Smart Brothas and a few Tweets, so feel free to correct me as needed.

  81. 81
    Ruckus says:

    Yeah that was a tongue in check question, to which the answer was obvious.
    I wonder how long this has been going on to the degree that it is currently? Are the perps feeling a bit more bold over the last 2 years?

  82. 82
    Peale says:

    @Mnemosyne: it’s been awhile since I lived in DC, but one of the things I remember was that it was not a city where cleaning up after pets was universally practiced. Much less so than any other place I’ve lived.

  83. 83
    My Side of Town says:

    @rikyrah: Thanks. Really enjoy your input here.

  84. 84
    JeffH says:

    @Luthe: Also Bryn Mawr has a bit of a buffer zone with two K-12 schools bordering it, so dog walkers have further to go to get to the campus.

    (12 year attendee of one of those schools here, don’t hold it against me…)

  85. 85
    Suzanne says:

    As someone who has walked home multiple blocks to get a bag and then walked back to pick up dog poop when I have forgotten to bring a bag….fuck these nasty people.

    The not-breathing is getting worse. The only way I can remain clear to breathe is to stand up all the time, and my ligaments and joints are not happy about that prospect. Doctor sez I have to deal and there is nothing short of surgery that will fix it. I am just constantly gasping for air. This sucks so much.

  86. 86
    Ruckus says:

    @My Side of Town:
    Sorry for your loss.

  87. 87
    Mnemosyne says:


    Howard U has apparently had an uptick in vandalism and graffiti in the past 2 years as well, so this is probably of a piece with that.

    I keep thinking about going out for a solo breakfast tomorrow, and then remembering that it’s Easter and places are going to either be closed or packed to the gills.

  88. 88
    Chetan Murthy says:


    for people to let their dogs shit there without cleaning it up

    And it’s not just a problem when dog-owners don’t clean up; dogshit can carry communicable diseases. I had a grad school offficemate who had toxo in his eye; turns out that the vector of transmission is dogshit. Dog shits on grass; (possibly unknowingly) pregnant mother-to-be touches grass; toxo goes thru her, to the fetus, where it infects the fetus’ eye. Voila! A lifetime of treatment for the child-who-becomes-an-adult.

    BTW, thanks for that vid, Mnem.

  89. 89
    Mnemosyne says:


    Ugh. I’m trying to think of any no-medication ideas that you haven’t already. Ice packs? Saline rinses? A CPAP? I can’t imagine that you constantly being short of oxygen is good for Future Spawn.

  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    It was pretty cool, wasn’t it? I kept trying to find a good photo and finally stumbled onto that instead.

  91. 91


    As someone who has walked home multiple blocks to get a bag and then walked back to pick up dog poop when I have forgotten to bring a bag…

    I’ve done this as well.

    fuck these nasty people

    Yup. They should go here.

  92. 92
    Darkrose says:

    @Kent: The reason it’s news is because it’s a gentrification issue. Historically, the area around Howard has been a largely black neighborhood. Now that DC is becoming increasingly gentrified, and white newcomers are moving into areas that were previously predominantly black, the neighborhood dynamics are changing. In this case, the new residents see an open green space and assume they can walk their dogs there instead of utilizing one of the nearby designated dog parks. And then the asshole with the beard said that the 150-year-old university “should move” if they don’t like people letting their dogs poop on the lawn.

  93. 93

    @My Side of Town: How did you watch Farscape? I was thinking about buying it and rewatching it. It’s been too many frelling years since I saw it even available for rent.

    Also, too, welcome to commenting.

  94. 94
    Suzanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: Nothing. Saline rinses are especially ineffective. CPAP won’t reduce swelling.

    I am not really coping well.

  95. 95
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Mnemosyne: Hard to believe it’s actual drone footage, and not CGI: there’s no defects at all, and you’d expect at least a few.

  96. 96
    Darkrose says:

    @Gretchen: Maybe it’s because I’m not a dog person, but I don’t understand why you’d take your dog to a college campus to walk it if you’re not affiliated with that college–especially when there are two dog parks nearby. But more to the point, it’s a historically black college, so when you see lots of white folks walking their dogs on campus, it’s a reasonably safe bet that they’re not affiliated with Howard. And, well…it’s kind of obnoxious and entitled, especially since if a student confronted one of these people, you can bet they’d call 911 and complain about being threatened by a black person. The bearded asshole made it clear: this should be his space, even though he’s not Howard faculty, staff, or student. Just because he’s white.

  97. 97
    Mnemosyne says:


    Congrats on finishing your e-Port! G told me and I totally forgot to email you since we’re having some kitty health drama. 😿


    I was thinking CPAP just to force some additional oxygen through, but you may be right that it wouldn’t be able to get past the swelling.

    I’m sure you’re marking the days on your calendar even more eagerly than most people who are expecting.

  98. 98
    Darkrose says:

    @Ruckus: It’s possible, but in a way, I think it’s worse that most of them probably weren’t doing it on purpose. I suspect a lot of them didn’t realize the significance of Howard; it was just the general sense of entitlement that “here’s an open space; I don’t want to have to go the extra few blocks to the dog park when this is closer, and it’s just a bunch of black kids around, so obviously it’s nothing special.”

  99. 99
    My Side of Town says:

    @Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: It’s available on Amazon Prime right now. Having just finished it, again, I have to say the best Sci Fi of all time.

  100. 100
    Ruckus says:

    I of course have no possibility of the concept personally of the normal issues with pregnancy but adding this on top of it seems, I have no words.
    Could oxygen help? Not exactly what you want to cart around, an oxygen tank, but if it helps even a little….. Of course if it would your doc probably would have suggested it. Even if you can’t get a normal amount of air, if it had higher oxygen content that would seem to be helpful.

  101. 101
    Darkrose says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thank you, and thanks to G. for hooking me up with the group! Turned out my advisor has a rep for waiting until the last minute to review the competencies, which worked well since I turned in my conclusion at 6 pm on Monday.

    Now I have to put together my presentation for my interview on Monday.

    Thinking good thoughts for Annie.

  102. 102
    Darkrose says:

    @Suzanne: Oh dear. There’s nothing the doctor can do?

  103. 103
    Ruckus says:


    and it’s just a bunch of black kids around, so obviously it’s nothing special.”

    I’d call that racism. And really every college that I’ve been around, it’s obvious that it is a college. Only one thing makes Howard different than most other colleges and that’s it’s student body, more specifically the skin color of it’s student body.
    And especially as Mems said that the school has had an uptick in issues over the last 2 yrs. And it should be obvious as to why that might be. Sure gentrification might be part of it, but why has it become such a big issue over the last 2 yrs I wonder……
    Also – I’m an old white guy that lives on the other side of the country and I know about Howard. Living in the same city close enough to walk my dog there and not know?

  104. 104
    Mary G says:

    @Suzanne: Yikes. Not much worse than to feel like you can’t breathe.

  105. 105
    Suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: I don’t need suggestions. There aren’t any that I haven’t tried, or that simply won’t be effective because of the physiology. I’m not going without oxygen, because I can gulp air through my mouth or stand up. I have my OB, a perinatologIst, and an ENT. Surgery is the only real option, but once I deliver, I won’t need it anymore. So pretty much nine more weeks it is.

    I could just use sympathy and good thoughts.

  106. 106
    eclare says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks for the drone footage, yes, that is a special space. Best healing wishes for Annie.

  107. 107
    Suzanne says:

    @Darkrose: I can get turbinate reduction surgery. Which is….unpleasant, with a not-short recovery time. And, once I deliver, it is unnecessary, as this weird condition disappears basically the moment the placenta is delivered and estrogen levels go back down.

    So. Nine more weeks. NOT THAT I AM COUNTING.

  108. 108
    Jay says:


    Yup, it’s mystery,……

  109. 109
    Darkrose says:

    @Ruckus: Oh, it’s definitely racism–I just don’t think it was intentional, but more the natural result of privilege and entitlement.

  110. 110
    Jay says:


    Sympathy and good thoughts, Suzanne.

  111. 111
    eclare says:

    @Suzanne: Best wishes for the next nine weeks, sounds awful physically and exhausting.

  112. 112
    My Side of Town says:

    @Ruckus: You can buy an oxygen concentrator never having to buy bottles@Suzanne: 2 day delivery

  113. 113
    eclare says:

    @Suzanne: Just googled that surgery, yikes! My college bf’s mom had something like that done, and said it was the worst thing she ever went through.

  114. 114
    Mary G says:


    {{{Suzanne}}} many virtual hugs.

    I was never well enough to get pregnant, but from observation know it’s not for sissies. When I chance upon a photo of Jared, Ivanka, and their perfect children together I think that Hillary was right – they probably have a large village of maids, nannies, stylists, hairdressers, make-up artists and drugs from a couple of Dr. Feelgoods making it happen.

  115. 115
    Nelle says:

    @Suzanne: My daughter had that surgery (never been pregnant). Afterwards she said, is this what it’s like to breathe? Its so easy! I hadn’t heard that it could be linked to estrogen, though, if I’m understanding you right.

  116. 116
    Suzanne says:

    @eclare: Yeah, that surgery sounds absolutely fucken bananas. No thanks.

    About five minutes after the last Spawn was born, I was literally having all of my business cleaned up, when my nose and sinuses started with this crazy burning sensation. That went on for about ninety seconds, and then all of it disappeared and I breathed normally for the first time in months. It’s so weird,

    I have been grouchy AF for the past couple of weeks. The news has not been helping my mood. I have been doing some amount of tuning out in order to remain semi-sane.

  117. 117

    @My Side of Town: I’m a Prime member, sweet!!! Thanks.

    @Suzanne: I had the same thing when pregnant with my daughter, along with a host of other complications. Sending you lots of good vibes and tons of sympathy.

  118. 118
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Yup. But unless they physically fence off the commons, compliance could be problematical. E.g., do you prohibit dogs on campus, or do you “card” anyone who shows up with Fido? For an HBCU in a prdominately-white gentrified neighborhood, that might not seem to be a hard call – yet I have known two women who attended (almost 50 years apart) Morgan State, Baltimore’s HBCU, and both of them were white.

  119. 119
    piratedan says:

    @Suzanne: Vicks vapo rub?

  120. 120
    eclare says:

    @Suzanne: This was thirty years ago, but she developed TSS from the packing in her nose. All my sympathy for the next nine weeks.

  121. 121
    Suzanne says:

    @Nelle: There are estrogen receptors in the nasal passages, and for some people—lucky me—pregnancy causes extreme swelling in there due to the increased estrogen. Ergo, nothing like cold medicine or neti pots or allergy medicine helps. I’ve done rounds of steroids and that also didn’t do shit. Mine goes away after the Spawns are born, though….sounds like your daughter has something a little different going on.

  122. 122
    Ruckus says:


    I could just use sympathy and good thoughts.

    You got all you want.

  123. 123
    Suzanne says:

    @piratedan: Uh yeah no.

  124. 124
    Suzanne says:


    TSS from the packing in her nose

    Oh FUCK I didn’t even know that could happen.

    FUCK I am never getting that surgery.

  125. 125
    Fair Economist says:

    @Suzanne: That sounds awful, Suzanne. So sorry you have to go through this.

    Would supplemental oxygen help? It sure helps my mother’s breathlessness, although that’s for COPD.

  126. 126
    eclare says:

    @Suzanne: Yeah, she survived but there were a couple of dicey days. Doesn’t seem like a good risk if you’re pregnant.

  127. 127
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @rikyrah: I replied to Chetan Murthy’s post about Rice closing the campus thoroughfares one day a year to preserve their private status, wondering if the situation at Howard was similar.

    Clearly Howard has the authority to control or forbid dogs, or for that matter non-campus-affiliated people, using The Yard or anywhere else on its property for any purpose. Enforcement might be harder to arrange if public thoroughfares run nearby.

    Clearly the melanin-deprived individual who suggested the school be moved deserves every bit of ridicule he gets. And he should get a lot.

  128. 128
    piratedan says:

    well, the only other “natural” decongestant that I have had luck with I picked up at an Asian Goods market called White Flower Oil/Balm, although it may be distributed more widely now. Comprised of menthol, eucalyptus, and lavender…

  129. 129
    Gretchen says:

    @Suzanne: Sympathy and good thoughts coming your way from me. Let us know when Spawn Next is born and how you are doing along the way.

  130. 130
    Darkrose says:

    @Suzanne: Sending you good thoughts; please keep us posted as you can.

  131. 131
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @A Streeter: Well, there you have it: Anyone within that boundary is either a member of the Howard community or there by its suffrance – or trespassing. In their shoes, I’d try to work out a modus viviendi with the community, but not until the fact of ownership is clearly understood & acknowledged by all.

  132. 132
    Gretchen says:

    @Darkrose: I agree that it’s wrong to let your dog run loose on campus or poop and not clean up after it. But let’s leave the dog out of the equation. I take the same walks whether I have my dog with me or not. So is it wrong or disrespectful for a white person who lives in the neighborhood to walk through the Howard campus? If Howard wants to have a closed campus, that’s their right. They can post that you need to show a Howard ID to be on campus. But if they don’t post that, it seems a little harsh that neighborhood people have to stay out.

  133. 133
    Mnemosyne says:


    But no one is proposing that. At all. They’re literally just banning dogs from campus that are not service animals.

    People may see the dog poop issue as emblematic of the overall gentrification problem, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not also a literal problem right now, which is why they’re banning non-service dogs from campus grounds.

  134. 134
    Cacti says:

    Places children don’t belong:

    1. Bars

  135. 135
    Darkrose says:

    @Gretchen: No, of course it’s not disrespectful to walk through the campus. You can’t leave the dogs out of the equation though, because the whole point is that new DC residents who are mostly white are treating the Yard like a dog park, and letting their dogs mark areas and not cleaning up after that–and that at least one of those white residents responded to the complaints by suggesting that the 150-year-old campus should move.

    The Yard has gates, but Howard likes to keep them open because they’re being a welcoming space. Unfortunately, some people see an open space populated by black folks and assume that they can come in their and use it as they see fit. They’re taking advantage of the spirit of openness that the university is trying to foster because they feel that they’re entitled to do so.

  136. 136
    James E Powell says:

    @My Side of Town:

    Having just finished it, again, I have to say the best Sci Fi of all time.

    That’s a bold statement.

  137. 137
    Cacti says:


    It’s also wrong to let your dog mark on someone else’s private property. There is a certain kind of dog owner who either doesn’t understand, or doesn’t care that this practice is not okay. They tend to be the same type of person who wonders why bars aren’t more welcoming to children.

  138. 138
    Paul Anderson says:

    @Gretchen: I am with you. In my experience, most college kids would be eager to interact with the dog, and by extension, the dog walker.

  139. 139
    JR says:

    These are two separate issues. Obnoxious dog owners are everywhere. We have dog walkers leave their shit around the neighborhood fairly frequently around these parts. There are also those that use the neighborhood park, have the courtesy to pick up their poop in bags and then courteously drop those bags in private homeowners’ trash cans, where the garbage collectors won’t pick them up (they pull bags out, they don’t dump the cans).

    “Parents say they struggle to find kid-friendly bars and restaurants in D.C.”

    How is this comparable? When I was a kid, ‘family friendly’ meant going to some crap suburban chain restaurant. You would wait an hour to be seated on a Friday night and if we were lucky they had coin-op video games in the front parlor. The ongoing collapse of suburban malls and the general crappiness of those restaurants means that people are going elsewhere. Would you rather young families go to white tablecloth restaurants? That shit sucks. I remember as a young kid being forced to change into one of those cheap linen rental suits to eat in a hotel dining room. They made us wait for two hours for service.

    At the end of the day, families aren’t going to be able to go to Chipotle or some such every week, even if their kids would definitely sign up for that. It gets old. There are cities like Seattle, Minneapolis, etc. that have tons of dining options that cater to families with kids. It doesn’t kill anyone. The kids don’t grow up to be psychopaths.

  140. 140
    Barbara says:

    @Darkrose: DC is not a dog town. I have had many experiences where I feel like people with dogs grew up in suburbs and don’t understand that living with a dog in an urban environment requires more consideration of your dog’s impact on the surrounding neighborhood.

  141. 141
    ET says:

    Jebus that guy…….. Everything wrong with white gentrifers in DC.

    I live in DC but am mrom NOLA so am familiar with urban campuses. In NOLA locals don’t walk through campuses unless it is part of the street grid. Why would they- it is for the students. Some of the white folk that are moving into traditional black DC neighborhoods really have no sense of common rules, because the dog walking in the campus wasn’t a problem until they moved in. That grassy area at Howard isn’t a public park, it is part of the private school property for the use of the students others not walking on a public sidewalk that is part of the city grid, are tresspassing. The university didn’t have to explicitly say it because people knew the unwritten rules.

  142. 142
    The Pale Scot says:

    Funniest GIF I ‘ve seen in a while from the comment section

    Titled “I take my kids everywhere. They love it!”

  143. 143
    The Pale Scot says:

    @MIke in DC

    How do you have a kid-friendly environment with drunk people?

    I’ve found it a great help in responding to the parade of WHY? questions.

  144. 144
    Denali says:


    So sorry to hear of your situation. Wish there were something I could suggest that would help.

  145. 145
    Starfish says:

    A lot of the restaurants and bars in Baltimore were kid-friendly so I can understand their surprise at DC not being like that. Kids are usually in these establishments much earlier than the drunks, and they typically do not cross paths. But why are kids there, you ask,

    This is about new-urbanism and people moving back to the cities. People are asking for the places where they live to be designed for the people that live there instead of the tourists.

    There were one or two places within walking distance of my place in Baltimore that were not kid-friendly. I did not realize that the restaurant attached to the wine shop was not kid friendly until after I had an infant, and then I never returned to it again.

    The number of places that are not kid-friendly is odd. For example, in Baltimore, the places where you could go get your haircut were typically kid-friendly. Where I live now, that is not necessarily true. Should stay-at-home parents never get haircuts? Should they hire babysitters so they can go get haircuts?

  146. 146
    leeleeFL says:

    @Damien: I really wanted to b-slap him. Move Howard University, so you can let your precious pup crap on the lawn? Get a farm, schmuck, and your animals can fill ‘er up.
    No offense to innocent critters. They are, of course, not responsible for idiot owners AARGH!
    oh, and Happy Easter!🐥🐇🐤🐰💗

  147. 147
    Starfish says:

    @The Pale Scot: That’s really funny.

    @Suzanne: I am sorry that your child is not letting you breathe. They should definitely be banned from bars for that type of nonsense.

  148. 148
    Honus says:

    @leeleeFL: the guy’s picture on his twitter feed kind of says it all.

    When I was a kid my dad or my uncles would occasionally take me into a bar. These were real bars where men drank and smoked and bet on spot sheets. I could have a soda and maybe a hot dog or sandwich, and much of the swearing was toned down, although I usually learned a few new vocabulary items and was exposed to some of the mysteries of life when used the bathroom. This was invariably in the early afternoon so I don’t recall seeing anybody very drunk there.

    And I say men drank there because even though an occasional female would be present, neither my mother nor any of my aunts would ever, or ever want to, step inside any of those places.

    Come to think of it, the barber shops were much the same way.

  149. 149
    SenyorDave says:

    @ET: I grew up right next to Princeton, NJ. The Princeton campus is huge and while many buildings are on public streets, there is one many part that is probably a couple of hundred acres that is entirely contiguous. Locals walk around there all the time, nobody checks ID’s. They do it because its a nice walk, and the university considers themself part of the community. I live about 30 miles from DC. On occasion I go into DC, and at least twice I walked around the Howard campus. The Howard campus is in the heart of a community. Obviously, it is primarily for the students, but people who are aren’t students who walk there are not trespassers, certainly not from a legal standpoint, since they have allowed the public limited use of their campus for an extended period of time. The areas that are truly private and contiguous can be turned into a Howard U only area, but it will change the nature of Howard’s relationship to the community. And it will certainly be scrutinized to make sure that all locals who don’t have some sort of official reason are kept off campus, not just some types of people.
    From a practical standpoint Howard will have a tough time limiting access to their campus unless they require people to show an university ID at all times in plain view.

  150. 150
    cynthia ackerman says:

    If Howard U had a … WALL … around it, uppity pale doggists wouldn’t be able to beshit the place. Make DC pay for a WALL!!!1!!!

  151. 151
    Starfish says:

    @SenyorDave: The issue is specifically about the dogs and the history of white police setting dogs on black folks.

  152. 152
    StringOnAStick says:

    I stopped going for walks with a friend when she made it a point to let her dog through a gap in the fence so he could crap in the cemetery. She never picked it up. She and her husband thought that dog was a saint but I saw it nip people (half herding dog) and be the opposite of under voice command so the deer got chased a lot. This was a number of years ago and I wish I’d been more vocal about it. They’ve since adopted a kid who I’ve heard is a real handful; given how little discipline the dog got, this is no surprise.

  153. 153
    Barbara says:

    @ET: I used to walk through the JHU campus with my dog all the time. Ditto at UNC and Duke when I lived in the surrounding towns. When I dog sat in Chicago, I walked through U of C. Urban campuses definitely have a greater sense of security and awareness of who is supposed to be there, but this wouldn’t be a problem if people cleaned up after their pets and kept them on leashes. It is a neighborhhod and someone else’s yard, not a park. There was a lady who let her collie dog off the leash at JHU and it drove me nuts.

    None of the stuff about Howard surprises me. Even in dog parks people don’t clean up, and then whine about how they can’t have more because the county has to treat it like an open sewer and build expensive infrastructure accordingly. Yes, I would bet that this is exacerbated by gentrification and racism, but there are also a lot of equal opportunity assholes.

    Also, that article about kid friendly bars is much more balanced than the headline suggests. A lot of what these parents are discovering is how alcohol focused their social lives are and not being able to adjust.

  154. 154
    Cacti says:


  155. 155
    Kathleen says:

    @Suzanne: {{{Suzanne}}}}. Please complain about this as much as you need to. I’m so sorry you have go to go through this hell with your breathing. I’d be a raving screaming maniac. (TBH it takes very little for me to become a raving screaming maniac).

  156. 156
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Barbara: It’s funny, that DCist article reminds me of my parents. I was brought up on stories of how they were on the bleeding edge of completely unacceptable behavior from a young couple bc they’d bring me to traditionally child-free spaces. They used to take me with them to some of the nice restaurants in the Boston area when I was still a baby & toddler. This was long before you could even expect to get takeout, and bc I really wasn’t a fussy baby, they’d bring me out on their weekly (or whatever) date nights if they couldn’t find a sitter. Of course they also said that once my brother was born it became a much more logistically complex proposition & they had to stop. ;)

  157. 157
    Barbara says:

    @Suzanne: Well I hope it’s a quick 9 weeks and that you have a safe and speedy delivery. My back was in agony for the last 2 months with my third. Every time I moved I felt like screaming.

  158. 158
    burnspbesq says:


    Howard was there first. Whit gentrifiers can fuck right off.

Comments are closed.