Another Mueller Report Thread

The last one is getting long.

Here’s a searchable version. I’ve downloaded it for my own convenience. I haven’t found any stunning surprises yet, including about some of the (apparently) bit players like Carter Page and George Papadopoulos.

It’s worth noting that Barbara Ledeen, whom Trump asked to find Clinton’s emails and came up with some fakes from “the dark web”, is married to Michael Ledeen, another of those slimebag holdovers from Iran-Contra and other scams. I think it might be worth looking further into what part of “the dark web” they were from. Ledeen was connected to Joel Zamel, who is part of an intelligence-for-hire group. The connection is through a relatively inocuous part of Zamel’s empire, a group called Wikistrat.

Carry on.






190 replies
  1. 1
    Raoul says:

    Steny Hoyer is a fuvking god dammed embarrassment.

    We need to find and fund a primary to retire his lame, cowardly ass.

  2. 2
    JPL says:

    Nycsouthpaw and The Hoarse Whisperer have been doing an excellent job reading the report so I don’t have to. Kyle Griffin also deserves a shout out. IMO

  3. 3
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Slowly making my way through it.

  4. 4
    stinger says:

    At work, so I can’t (yet) read the 300 comments in the previous thread, much less the entire 400p report. But I’m wondering if, whether there was “collusion” or not, is ANYONE exercised about the fact that there was clearly Russian interference in US elections? Are we going to do anything to prevent that in the future?

  5. 5
    TenguPhule says:

    It’s worth noting that Barbara Ledeen, whom Trump asked to find Clinton’s emails and came up with some fakes from “the dark web”, is married to Michael Ledeen, another of those slimebag holdovers from Iran-Contra and other scams.

    Its the Usual Suspects, only all of these fuckers are actually guilty.

  6. 6
    TenguPhule says:

    @stinger:

    is ANYONE exercised about the fact that there was clearly Russian interference in US elections? Are we going to do anything to prevent that in the future?

    Sadly no.

  7. 7
    chopper says:

    The last one is getting long.

    but…but the Bogg! my god, man, THE BOGG! it’s ruined.

  8. 8
    patrick II says:

    I wouldn’t mind if someone explained Rod Rosenstein to me. I have defended him a few times because without him there would be no Mueller report, and think of how ridiculous that would be — federal law enforcement subjugated to an even more extreme degree than it has been. Imagine if Barr had been in charge from the beginning.
    Anyhow, I have even called Rosenstein a hero for going against his republican instincts and appointing Mueller in the first place. But now, he is allowing himself to be used to legitimize what I perceive to be a part of a continuing conspiracy to obstruct justice. I don’t get him.

  9. 9
    TenguPhule says:

    Evil just will not take a fucking holiday.

    The Trump administration is proposing to tighten regulations to prevent undocumented immigrants from accessing federally subsidized housing, a move that low-income housing advocates fear will keep immigrants who are legally entitled to such benefits from receiving housing help.

    The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development said Thursday that it plans to strengthen the verification process for public housing beneficiaries.

    “We need to make certain our scarce public resources help those who are legally entitled to it,” HUD Secretary Ben Carson said in a statement. “Given the overwhelming demand for our programs, fairness requires that we devote ourselves to legal residents who have been waiting, some for many years, for access to affordable housing.”

  10. 10
    TenguPhule says:

    @patrick II:

    But now, he is allowing himself to be used to legitimize what I perceive to be a part of a continuing conspiracy to obstruct justice.

    He has seen that the other Republicans in government who have the power to hold Trump accountable will not do so.

    And so he’s fallen in line with the rest of his party. He is now a good Republican.

  11. 11
    BlueGirlFromWyo says:

    As has been pointed out before, you know who else is a veteran of the Iran-Contra scandals? Bill Barr, of course. Can we investigate the fascist conspiracy in our own country next?

  12. 12
    TenguPhule says:

    Barr said. “Nonetheless, the White House fully cooperated with the Special Counsel’s investigation, providing unfettered access to campaign and White House documents, directing senior aides to testify freely, and asserting no privilege claims. And at the same time, the President took no act that in fact deprived the Special Counsel of the documents and witnesses necessary to complete his investigation.

    Every single word was a bald faced lie.

    What comes after gas lighting?

  13. 13
    lamh36 says:

    @DanaBashCNN
    Follow Follow @DanaBashCNN
    More
    House Majority @LeaderHoyer just told me : “Based on what we have seen to date, going forward on impeachment is not worthwhile at this point. Very frankly, there is an election in 18 months and the American people will make a judgement,”

    2:36 PM – 18 Apr 2019

    The same folks who some Dems say candidates need to woo for 2020…have said they like that Chump is a “fighter” even if he completely decimates their way of life…but hey…”he’s giving it to the Libtards”.

    Tell me again…that THOSE voters will see and hear this and think to themselves…”oh hey…that’s a fighter”.

  14. 14
    Mary G says:

    @patrick II: Big fat chicken. He may have tried to move his party, but his party moved him.

  15. 15
    evodevo says:

    Michael Ledeen was also involved with the leadup to Bush’s Iraq War – he worked for Doug Feith, one of the Cheney cabal who compiled the heap of lies and questionable intelligence presented to the public to justify taking out Saddam…https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/MILITARY-MIGHT-The-man-behind-total-war-in-2648122.php

  16. 16
    patrick II says:

    @stinger:
    RE: Russian interference.
    Trump did not want to just stop an investigation into his collusion with the Russians, he said the whole, entire Russia Investigation was a witchhunt (which his friend Vlad agreed with), and that is an order worse than just defending himself. He saw the investigation in terms of what a businessman might call “externals”, the things he could avoid responsibility which might negatively affect his own bottom line. In this case the externals were not throwing waste chemicals into a river, as bad as that is, but undercutting the electoral process of the United States. Doesn’t bother him though.

  17. 17
    kindness says:

    The MSM I’ve seen so far (just print, I’m at work and can’t watch video) is not happy with Barr’s ‘assistance’ on Mueller’s report and are even suggesting Barr has lied to us (again).

  18. 18
    lamh36 says:

    @TheStagmania
    Follow Follow @TheStagmania
    More
    The reason Barr put that memo and delayed release of the report for a month is because they wanted people to lose heart. They wanted us to see them brazenly covering this up, see press going along with it, see Democrats saying maybe it’s better to settle this in the election.

    2:59 PM – 18 Apr 2019

    @TheStagmania
    13m13 minutes ago
    More
    They wanted us to see all that and decide this is futile. There’s no point in fighting, Trump can’t really be held accountable, let’s just give up.

    I saw this happen among people I know. People who are normally pretty resilient and action-oriented started saying it was over.

    @TheStagmania
    10m10 minutes ago
    More
    But it’s not over. Mueller did not intend for it to be over, he only moved the investigation to the next phase. Congressional Democrats have a job to do, and they must do it.

  19. 19
    Another Scott says:

    @stinger: The summaries at the start of each volume are pretty damning.

    But not surprising.

    E.g. It’s pretty clear that Mueller said that he couldn’t charge Donnie with obstruction because of the OLC opinion that the President can’t be indicted. But he lays a lot of facts and evidence out that he did, of course, obstruct justice – as is clear to any one who has seen any TV news since January 2017.

    Mueller’s testimony before the House should be very interesting…

    Does Paul Ryan or any of the others at the “this is how we know we’re a family” meeting make an appearance anywhere?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  20. 20
    TenguPhule says:

    @lamh36:

    Very frankly, there is an election in 18 months and the American people will make a judgement,”

    I remember when there was a Supreme Court seat being decided like this.

    Now how did that work out for us?

  21. 21

    @patrick II: I saw a meme of his standing behind Barr looking like a hostage and wearing a name tag that read LEEK.

  22. 22
    TenguPhule says:

    @Another Scott:

    It’s pretty clear that Mueller said that he couldn’t charge Donnie with obstruction because of the OLC opinion that the President can’t be indicted.

    And that right there is a big failure to the cause of law and order.

  23. 23

    BREAKING: Shep Smith is reporting that Michael Cohen & his lawyer, Lanny Davis, are planning to speak to the public re Mueller report & it won't be flattering to Trump et al.— MJ Cannon #RuleOfLaw (@ann_cannon) April 18, 2019

  24. 24
    MattF says:

    I just don’t see any surprises here. The main question is whether there is anything in the Report that we all didn’t already know. So far, it looks like a ‘No’. Also, I’m not going to get worked up over Barr’s lies. He was hired to lie, and… he did. Is that a surprise? Again, ‘No’.

    Trump’s reaction seems to be the usual combination of deceit, bluster, and bullying.

  25. 25
    tokyokie says:

    @TenguPhule:

    What comes after gas lighting?

    Asphyxiation or the house exploding.

  26. 26
    VeniceRiley says:

    I’m not mad at Republicans like I’m not mad at scorpions or chthulu. I AM livid at Steny Hoyer.

  27. 27
    lamh36 says:

    @notcapnamerica
    3h3 hours ago
    More chris evans Retweeted NewDemRicoP
    OOP.

    Anyone heard from Glenn Greenwald?

    @reesetheone1
    Rose twitter QUIET at this moment.

    11:31 AM – 18 Apr 2019

  28. 28
    stinger says:

    @TenguPhule: What I figured.

  29. 29
    lamh36 says:

    For the entirety of his time as Atty General…the RWNJ did nothing but call Holder corrupt or being in PBOs pocket…

    NOTHING Eric Holder ever did compares to what Bill Barr and Rob Rosentein (by virtue of being behind Barr on that platform) did today.

  30. 30
    Leto says:

    think it might be worth looking further into what part of “the dark web” they were from.

    The part that tries to sell you $10 worth of oregano, promising a great time!

  31. 31
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @patrick II: he’s a coward. I assume Sessions refused to fire him for obvious reasons so he was safe. Once Barr was in he rolled over like a puppy. Consider that he willingly wrote the pretext memo for Trump.

  32. 32
    rikyrah says:

    Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) Tweeted:
    I’m not an expert on this stuff, but this seems like an interesting part on page 18 of the PDF that I haven’t seen other people point out, where Mueller says his conclusions could conceivably be different if not for witnesses lying, invoking privilege, etc. https://t.co/nRm85Ec4zj https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1118897406039461889?s=17

  33. 33
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @lamh36: it’s been nighttime in Russia.

  34. 34
    patrick II says:

    I am just going to reiterate something simple that I continuously hear misstated. Mueller was never going to indict Trump for obstruction no matter what evidence he found because he did not think it was his place to do so. He did not “clear” Trump by deciding not to indict him because it was a decision he never made. He gathered evidence and left the decision about what further legal process to follow to others, including congress. It would be nice if I had more faith in the “others”.

  35. 35
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @rikyrah: and the destruction of evidence.

  36. 36
    rikyrah says:

    Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) Tweeted:
    If Loretta Lynch or Eric Holder ever held a press conference about Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton without releasing the accompanying report, as William Barr just did, Fox News & the entire Republican Party would have blown a gasket. This is corruption at its worst. #BarrCoverUp https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1118877425532907521?s=17

  37. 37
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Raoul: Oh dear. He’s my Rep. I sent him an email about initiating impeachment proceedings. May they all grow spines.

  38. 38
    lamh36 says:

    Puh-leeze…FUQ Rod Rosenstein.

    @evanperez
    Today was clearly an emotional day for Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein, leaving soon after abt 30 years at DOJ. Here Rosenstein’s eyes well up as Barr thanks him for staying beyond his planned retirement.

    26
    1:58 PM – Apr 18, 2019
    https://twitter.com/evanperez/status/1118952050107256833

  39. 39
    patrick II says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Rosenstein did look like a hostage there, not happy at all. I don’t get why he is still there, maybe to stay in position to restore integrity after congress impeaches Barr? Just kidding.

  40. 40
    Raoul says:

    @VeniceRiley: Yeah, livid here too.

    Anyone in Maryland on here who may want to weigh in on Mckayla Wilkes for MD-05?
    I’m sure it’s a long shot, but Steny needs to be informed that he’s not in this fight for the right reasons any more.

  41. 41
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @lamh36:

    The same folks who some Dems say candidates need to woo for 2020…have said they like that Chump is a “fighter”

    In context, though, doesn’t “a fighter” basically mean “hates liberals and people of color and wants them to hurt”?

  42. 42
    Raoul says:

    @patrick II: When does his pension vest?

    eta: @lamh36 Oh, I see. So it’s his legacy he thinks he’s preserving here? Really?

  43. 43
    rikyrah says:

    @lamh36:

    @DanaBashCNN
    Follow Follow @DanaBashCNN
    More
    House Majority @LeaderHoyer just told me : “Based on what we have seen to date, going forward on impeachment is not worthwhile at this point. Very frankly, there is an election in 18 months and the American people will make a judgement,”

    2:36 PM – 18 Apr 2019

    Get.the.ENTIRE.PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.

    Get some phucking balls.

    It’s time for impeachment.
    for BOTH Barr and Dolt45.

  44. 44
    NotMax says:

    “These things must be done … delicately.”
    … WW of the West

    She wasn’t mistaken about that. And now the giant hourglass has been turned over.

  45. 45
    Mnemosyne says:

    I don’t think there’s going to be anything “new” in the report for people who have been following the Russian interference story, but it hasn’t ever been laid out in a single narrative like this. That’s what the impact is.

    @lamh36:

    Hoyer’s constituents need to call his office and tell him to STFU.

  46. 46
    rikyrah says:

    Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) Tweeted:
    FBI suspects Russians hacked ‘at least one’ Florida county, Mueller report says – POLITICO https://t.co/7udc1CAZlv https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1118954029579735041?s=17

  47. 47
    James E Powell says:

    @rikyrah:

    where Mueller says his conclusions could conceivably be different if not for witnesses lying, invoking privilege, etc.

    Reminds me of the Fitzgerald report on the Valerie Plame investigation. This is what the Republicans learned from Iran-Contra: everybody lie and keep lying.

  48. 48
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: Fortunately, this decision won’t be made by Hoyer. It will be made by Pelosi after consulting with Nadler and Schiff. And that decision will be made once Nadler and Schiff get the exhibits with all the grand jury testimony and other evidence. And there will be a political calculus to this. Does impeaching him give him a way to present himself as fighting in a way that just bringing everything to light via investigations and hearings by the Oversight, Financial Services, Judiciary, and Intelligence committees? And, for Pelosi, does this further lock in that impeachment is a partisan political tool, which is the GOP position as Gingrich made clear when he authorized the impeachment of Clinton, to simply remove president’s elected from the other party because you can do so? Those are questions I can’t answer. I know what I’d advise, which is that regardless of what it does to the outcome of the next election, you have to start impeachment for the President and Attorney General Barr. And you don’t need to worry about locking in impeachment as a partisan political tool, rather than a constitutional tool to hold the President and other executive branch officials accountable for their actions, because the GOP has made it clear since 1996 that that is there official position on impeachment and what it is to be used for.

  49. 49
    Adam L Silverman says:

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/mueller-made-14-criminal-referrals-outside-offices

    Special counsel Robert Mueller referred 14 cases of potential criminal activity to outside offices because the cases were “outside the scope of the special counsel’s jurisdiction,” according to the Mueller report.

    We know about two of them: Michael Cohen’s alleged wire fraud and Federal Employees’ Compensation Act violations case and ex-Obama administration official Gregory Craig’s alleged FARA violations. Both were referred to the Southern District of New York.

    The other 12 referrals of potentially criminal evidence were all redacted for reasons of “harm to ongoing matter”

  50. 50
    NotMax says:

    re: Hoyer

    What, then, is the proper time frame? 19 months? 30? 47?

    What a maroon.

    @lamh36

    Dead man lawyer walking.

  51. 51
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @patrick II: Kind of like how Ken Starr (**shudders**) didn’t convict President Clinton but left it up to Congress to impeach him.

  52. 52
    rikyrah says:

    Garrett M. Graff (@vermontgmg) Tweeted:
    This reads to me as an impeachment referral: “The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President’s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balanced and the principle that no person is above the law.” https://twitter.com/vermontgmg/status/1118911598331084800?s=17

  53. 53
    patrick II says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    I would have written letter asserting Comey broke FBI regs too — because it is the truth and did us all great harm, and it was a legitimate ask of a president. Comey didn’t just disregard FBI regs, government employee interference in an election is against the law. Trump also asked Rosenstein to put in that Comey’s Russia investigation was not justified. Rosenstein would not do that, so Trump did on national TV a day later.

  54. 54
    soga98 says:

    @VeniceRiley:
    Kind of late to get riled about that. Hoyer has been an obvious dino foe decades.

  55. 55
    Adam L Silverman says:

  56. 56
    lamh36 says:

    Dilanian trying to scrap the egg off his face from his statement that Chump was totally exonerated by Burr’s 4 page summary.

    Course he ain’t foolin nobody

    @KenDilanianNBC
    Follow Follow @KenDilanianNBC
    More Ken Dilanian Retweeted Thor
    What I meant at the time was that Barr cleared Trump of crimes. That remains true. He’s the AG. Of course Mueller didn’t exonerate Trump. The report lays out evidence of obstruction and collusion.

  57. 57
    lamh36 says:

    Burr’s Senate colleagues. esp on the Dem side should be DARN mad

    @kylegriffin1
    21s21 seconds ago
    More
    Senate Intel Chair Richard Burr apparently supplied the White House counsel’s office with info about the FBI’s Russia probe, according to Mueller’s report. On March 9, 2017, Comey briefed congressional leaders. Burr corresponded with the W.H. a week later.

  58. 58
    TenguPhule says:

    @MattF:

    Also, I’m not going to get worked up over Barr’s lies. He was hired to lie, and… he did. Is that a surprise? Again, ‘No’.

    Chalk up DOJ as another failed institution.

  59. 59
    Matt McIrvin says:

    The revelations in the Mueller report are so damning to Trump that I’m going to have to excoriate the Democrats EXTRA HARD to express my frustration.

  60. 60
    Mnemosyne says:

    @lamh36:

    My guess: they threatened to take away Rosenstein’s pension the way they took away McCabe’s, and Rosenstein caved.

  61. 61
    Cacti says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Some of us didn’t overlook it at all. Tad Devine was to Bernie as Paul Manafort was to Trump.

  62. 62
    Raoul says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Good analysis, Adam. Even so, Hoyer is an ass for deflating Dems today. Just tactically so damn stupid.

    eta: I think the case against Barr is even clearer, and could provide enough juice to Dems to keep energy up, with less of the potential blowback of Trump ‘fighting’ Dems. He’d just scream witch hunt endlessly over Barr, which I think now bores most people.

  63. 63
    rikyrah says:

    🙄🙄🙄

    Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) Tweeted:
    Mueller documented extensive and grave misconduct by Trump, and importantly, shot down the legal theory of Trump’s lawyers — and Barr himself — that presidents are above the law.

    Over to you, Congress.

    @paulwaldman1 and me on Mueller’s findings:

    https://t.co/vUuLZq4lBy

  64. 64
    Baud says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Oh, two comments in one day I want to marry.

    Bigamist Baud! 2020!

  65. 65
    patrick II says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Not really like that at all. except for the indictment part.

  66. 66
    TenguPhule says:

    @Raoul:

    Even so, Hoyer is an ass for deflating Dems today.

    I see what you did there.

  67. 67
    rikyrah says:

    CBS News (@CBSNews) Tweeted:
    Pg 157 of #MuellerReport: “Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations… carried out through one-on-one meetings in which [he] sought to use his official power outside of usual channels” https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1118921885474009088?s=17

  68. 68
    lamh36 says:

    @FlipYrWhig: oh sure…but the candiates and those who support the wooing…don’t really want to talk about WHO and WHAT he’s fighting that his voters enjoy him for.

  69. 69
    Fair Economist says:

    @lamh36:

    @reesetheone1
    Rose twitter QUIET at this moment.

    11:31 AM – 18 Apr 2019

    I find this extremely disturbing. Hypothetically Rose Twitter is pro-socialist and they should have have plenty to say about honest issues and Bernie’s campaign even if they are infiltrated/manipulated by Russians and Republicans. But silence? That implies everything coming out of Rose Twitter is being driven by Russians and Republicans. (Of course individuals have opinions, but it’s the Russian/Republican amplification that makes it loud.)

  70. 70
    piratedan says:

    and lest we forget, that NONE of this shit goes down without the Senate Majority Leader threatening to make this traitorous shit a “partisan” issue. If Obama gets the GOP to stand up with him and confront Russian meddling in the elections on behalf of Trump, what are the chances that Comey continues along the path that he followed. McConnell’s actions show that he’s just as complicit in the illegality and I would even argue, is the only lynchpin holding this house of cards upright.

    It’s high time that some one bring charges and perp walk the fucker out of the Capitol.

  71. 71
    Baud says:

    @lamh36:

    Ok, thats legitimately stupid. Even if you believe that, you don’t say that today.

  72. 72
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rikyrah:

    I am not a lawyer, but I am also 100 percent reading this report as an impeachment referral.

  73. 73
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cacti: Fine, fine, I’ll email Ioffe and tell her Cacti didn’t overlook this. Happy?//

  74. 74
    TenguPhule says:

    @piratedan:

    It’s high time that some one bring charges and perp walk the fucker out of the Capitol.

    You misspelled ‘way past time’

  75. 75
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    Even if you believe that, you don’t say that today.

    You misspelled ‘ever’.

  76. 76
    lamh36 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: THANK YOU!!!!

    egardless of what it does to the outcome of the next election, you have to start impeachment for the President and Attorney General Barr. And you don’t need to worry about locking in impeachment as a partisan political tool, rather than a constitutional tool to hold the President and other executive branch officials accountable for their actions, because the GOP has made it clear since 1996 that that is there official position on impeachment and what it is to be used for.

  77. 77
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump again jokes about staying on as president for more than two terms

    Trump on Thursday joked about serving more than two terms as president, telling a crowd that he might remain in the Oval Office “at least for 10 or 14 years.”

    Trump made the comments on the same day that special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s report was released to the public.

    At an event for the Wounded Warrior Project, Lt. Gen. Michael S. Linnington, chief executive of the veterans charity, gave Trump a trophy to thank him for his support.

    “Well, this is really beautiful,” Trump told the crowd in the East Room of the White House. “This will find a permanent place, at least for six years, in the Oval Office. Is that okay?”

    After some laughter from the crowd, Trump continued: “I was going to joke, General, and say at least for 10 or 14 years, but we would cause bedlam if I said that, so we’ll say six.”

    Trump also made a joke on the same topic last year. In a speech to Republican donors at his Mar-a-Lago estate, he praised Chinese President Xi Jinping for doing away with term limits.

    “He’s now president for life. President for life. No, he’s great,” Trump said, according to CNN. “And look, he was able to do that. I think it’s great. Maybe we’ll have to give that a shot some day.”

    Donald Trump couldn’t tell a joke to save his life.

  78. 78
    Bill Arnold says:

    Some interesting bits about encryption (and possibly disappearing (after timeout) messages) masking communications. (This is an, uhm, opportunity (possibly personally quite dangerous depending on the players involved) for anyone who has access to these communications.)
    This is early in the document (page 10). Note the plural (some of bold mine):

    Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated-including some associated with the Trump Campaign—deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.
    Accordingly, while this report embodies factual and legal determinations that the Office believes to be accurate and complete to the greatest extent possible, given these identified gaps, the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.

    and Manafort was one of the “some of”:

    The Office was not, however, able to gain access to all of Manafort’ s electronic communications (in some instances, messages were sent using encryption applications). And while Manafort denied that he spoke to members of the Trump Campaign or the new Administration about the peace plan, he lied to the Office and the grand jury about the peace plan and his meetings with Kilimnik, and his unreliability on this subject was among the reasons that the district judge found that he breached his cooperation agreement.

  79. 79
    stinger says:

    @NotMax: I hope you’re right. (One of my favorites quotes, BTW.)

  80. 80
    Raoul says:

    @TenguPhule: Hmm. If I made a funny, I’m actually not sure what it was?

  81. 81
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Raoul: The strategic question Pelosi and Nadler will have to answer is that if you impeach Barr, will that tactic provide the results needed to achieve the larger objective of setting up the President for removal by being voted out in the 2020 election?

  82. 82
    Lapassionara says:

    @Bobby Thomson: in a court room, the destruction of evidence results in an instruction to the jury that the jury can presume that the destroyed evidence would be bad for the defendant.

  83. 83
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    The Hill reports that Ledeen got money from Eric Prince to hire a consultant to verify the authenticity of her “dark web” email cache. https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/439578-blackwater-founder-erik-prince-helped-fund-effort-related-to

  84. 84
    TenguPhule says:

    @Raoul: Traditional Democratic mascot.

  85. 85
    lamh36 says:

    @DNCWarRoom
    Follow Follow @DNCWarRoom
    More
    After nearly two years of coverups, firings and abuses of power, we’ve seen the redacted report. Even with an incomplete report, it’s obvious that Trump used every resource he had to evade the rule of law. That’s a big deal.

    Don’t take it from us, take it from @senatemajldr.
    https://twitter.com/DNCWarRoom/status/1118957976046505985

    Embedded archived footage of McConnell, Graham and Grassley singing another tune during the Clinton impeachment days

  86. 86
    Bill Arnold says:

    @piratedan:

    McConnell’s actions show that he’s just as complicit in the illegality

    M. McConnell, Rand Paul and L. Graham all independently blocked vote on the resolution to demand a release of the Mueller report.
    There has been considerable talk over the past year of each of those three being compromised.

  87. 87
    patrick II says:

    @patrick II

    Nicole Wallace: “Mueller alledges criminal cons piracy couldn’t be proven”

    Once again, Mueller did not make that decision, he gathered evidence but did not decide one way or the other because Trump is the president.

  88. 88
    Raoul says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, and I am not strategic enough or beltway enough to know what the right call is. My frustration with Hoyer is that he should have just stayed mum about the question today. Pelosi was much more effective in saying things like
    “Attorney General Barr’s partisan behavior has triggered a crisis of independence & impartiality.”

  89. 89
    TenguPhule says:

    Please note that we’re not completely insane here in Hawaii.

    Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard has attracted little financial support locally for her presidential bid, with just 3% of the $1.95 million she raised in the first quarter of this year coming from residents of her home state. Noticeably missing from her donor list are influential leaders in the business and political community who are known to contribute generously to local candidates.

    While the lackluster financial showing at the local level is of little consequence to Gabbard’s presidential aspirations as she tours the country drumming up support and campaign contributions in key primary states. Still it could be an indication of where political support is aligning at home if she runs again next year for her congressional seat.

    State Sen. Kai Kahele, who jumped into the race early, announcing in January that he would seek Gabbard’s congressional seat representing the neighbor islands and rural Oahu, has by comparison received donations from a substantial number of well-known political players and lobbyists. In total, he raised $250,000 in the first quarter, a considerable haul for a first time congressional candidate who has only held elected office for three years.

    If the gods are kind she’ll be out of Congress next term.

    Also, who the fuck is sending her money? Cause its not us!

  90. 90
    rikyrah says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Those are questions I can’t answer. I know what I’d advise, which is that regardless of what it does to the outcome of the next election, you have to start impeachment for the President and Attorney General Barr. And you don’t need to worry about locking in impeachment as a partisan political tool, rather than a constitutional tool to hold the President and other executive branch officials accountable for their actions, because the GOP has made it clear since 1996 that that is there official position on impeachment and what it is to be used for.

    CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP

    AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN

    It’s time for Democrats to phucking start acting like we are in the WAR that we are in.
    They wanted, gutlessly, to punt this to Robert Mueller. Well, that’s not how it worked out.

    Time for War. And, those of you who are squeamish..STFU and go sit in the corner.
    GET.THE.PHUCK.OUT.OF.OUR.WAY.

  91. 91
    ruemara says:

    @Fair Economist: Because many of them are willfully obtuse, perfunctory in their progressiveness and nearly indistinguishable from the right because, as one so kindly pointed out to me, “We’re not focusing on identity politics because we want what voters really want, progressive economic policy”.

    @rikyrah: I’m not squeamish in the least. I just know that it’ll pass the House, die in the Senate and then beused to hammer the democratic party as being treasonous, proof that there was nothing because he didn’t get removed (impeachment isn’t removal) etc. etc. I’m willing to risk it and I think it’s fully deserved, but I know not everyone is me. If people were all like us… I believe everyone would’ve been in jail sometime around January 30th 2017.

  92. 92
    lamh36 says:

    Hoyer did himselves no favors and not only himself, but he put Nancy Pelosi in a position to have to agree or disagree or just be asked directly about what Hoyer said.

    Time for him to go…

  93. 93
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah: Got room on that couch for one more?

  94. 94
    lamh36 says:

    @DavidCornDC
    Following Following @DavidCornDC
    More
    Mueller report, page 23: Internal IRA memos show that by early 2016 the goal of Russia’s secret social media operation was to support Trump *and* Sanders: “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump – we support them).”

    3:43 PM – 18 Apr 2019

  95. 95
    TenguPhule says:

    @lamh36:

    Hoyer did himselves no favors and not only himself, but he put Nancy Pelosi in a position to have to agree or disagree or just be asked directly about what Hoyer said.

    Tomorrow’s headline: “Dems in Disarray, some say Trump did not collude.”

    I hope this remains a joke by tomorrow.

  96. 96
    Raoul says:

    @TenguPhule: Oh, right. Reminds me of unintentional hilarity that broke out when I was a youngster playing the home version of Password with my parents and grandmother. The secret word was Donkey. My grandmother said ‘ass’ and I turned scarlet and blurted out ‘butt’. I think I was eight.

  97. 97
    SenyorDave says:

    Hopefully Pelosi reached out to Hoyer and told him to shut the f**k up. What a horse’s ass. He couldn’t have kept his thought to himself?

  98. 98
    Fair Economist says:

    @ruemara: Rose Twitter isn’t even that. They could be talking about economic justice right now, but without Russian/Republican direction, they’re silent.

  99. 99
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @patrick II: Not quite right. Mueller DID say he couldn’t prove a criminal conspiracy, though he did uncover much of what we’d call “collusion”. He also said some people were lying and his information from him, and that it could change the result of the report if he’d had that information.

    He gathered evidence but did not make a decision on Obstruction because Trump is the president.

  100. 100
    bemused says:

    @patrick II:

    I saw a clip on twitter somewhere of Rosenstein showing a little smile when Barr stopped taking questions and they departed. Anyone else see that?

  101. 101
    Cacti says:

    @lamh36:

    Manafort and Devine.

    I wonder who the Kremlin asset is in Bernie’s 2020 campaign. Besides Bernie himself.

  102. 102
    Fair Economist says:

    The Mueller report says the President committed crimes and he wasn’t allowed to fully investigate or indict. That requires impeachment. The report is plain enough we’ll get political benefit even though the Republican Senators are also colluding.

  103. 103
    GregMulka says:

    @piratedan:

    Obama failed on this, too. He could have not given in to the terrorist Mitch McConnell. He could have presented the evidence, said Mitch wanted to hide it from the American people, and then let the chips fall where they may. Instead, he trusted the better angels of our nature and failed the nation in his last duty.

    Obama is a good man and he was a good president but trying to steer the middle of the road on this was his greatest mistake and failure.

  104. 104
    ruemara says:

    @Fair Economist: They only come out when you launch the “Dems are evil & spineless” signal. Then it’s a feeding frenzy.

  105. 105
    sukabi says:

    Barbara Ledeen, whom Trump asked to find Clinton’s emails and came up with some fakes from “the dark web”, is married to Michael Ledeen,

    Thanks was wondering about her…wasn’t Michael Ledeen also part of GWB’s “brain trust” seems like he’s played a more recent part in the country’s decline than Iran / Contra

  106. 106
    Bill Arnold says:

    I’ve been avoiding the right-wing conspiracy mills to see what their take is on the redacted Mueller report.
    Has anyone looked? If you took the Mueller report and did a pins-and-colored-yarn version of it, it would cover a full large wall.
    The American right-wing is primed for this stuff.

  107. 107
    TenguPhule says:

    @Fair Economist:

    and he wasn’t allowed to fully investigate or indict.

    So the IC wasn’t keeping him up to date on Trump and company?

  108. 108
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Fair Economist:

    I enjoyed this retweet and GIF on that same guy’s feed:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/reesetheone1/status/1118952954172723202

  109. 109
    rikyrah says:

    SERIOUSLY…

    anyone gotten a statement from Mark Warner?

    Folks told him that he was being PLAYED……

    uh huh
    uh huh

  110. 110
    TenguPhule says:

    @GregMulka:

    He could have not given in to the terrorist Mitch McConnell. He could have presented the evidence, said Mitch wanted to hide it from the American people, and then let the chips fall where they may.

    To be fair, if anyone had tried to explain a quarter of what was in Mueller’s report to the general public 3 years ago, they’d have been labeled a crazy conspiracy theorist.

  111. 111
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Fair Economist: And this is surprising?

  112. 112
    Leto says:

    @rikyrah: shorter: Lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way.

    I trust Nancy Smash, so I’ll follow.

  113. 113
    lamh36 says:

    @GregMulka: fuq off…this is not about Obama…and the folks trying to bring PBO into this do so cause it easier than focusing on the facts of all this.

    The only folks who want to keep on placing blame on Obama is Fox News and their viewers.

    Fuq that…I’ll reserve my fire for those who deserves it…put in %… 0.000000000001 % of this entire situtation is on Obmaa… 99.9999999999% of this is on Chump and company, Barr, GOP, and elected GOP like McConell, et al

  114. 114
    TenguPhule says:

    In one particularly dramatic moment, Mueller reported that Trump was so agitated at the special counsel’s appointment on May 17, 2017, that he slumped back in his chair and declared: “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I’m f—-ed.”

    With that, Trump set out to save himself.

    In June of that year, Mueller wrote, Trump directed White House Counsel Don McGahn to call Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversaw the probe, and say that Mueller must be ousted because he had conflicts of interest. McGahn refused — deciding he would rather resign than trigger a potential crisis akin to the Saturday Night Massacre of Watergate firings fame.

    Two days later, the president made another attempt to alter the course of the investigation, meeting with former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski and dictating a message for him to relay to then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The message: Sessions would publicly call the investigation “very unfair” to the president, declare Trump did nothing wrong and say that Mueller should limit his probe to “investigating election meddling for future elections.” The message was never delivered.

    Trump tried to seize control of Mueller probe, report says

    At least some of the media are taking this seriously and noticing the trees in the forest.

  115. 115
    Mnemosyne says:

    @GregMulka:

    I was wondering when the victim-blaming would begin to deflect responsibility from the Republicans.

    Remember, if you didn’t want someone to steal your car, you shouldn’t have let them break the windows and hot wire it. How dare you complain about your stolen car when you’re the one who allowed them to steal it?

  116. 116
    Fair Economist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Honestly, yes. I though Rose Twitter/the purity pony brigade was a real thing, albeit manipulated. Apparently it’s just a couple of kooks with trolls doing all the public support to get them trending.

  117. 117
    lamh36 says:

    @lynnv378
    2m2 minutes ago
    More
    Knowing that Manafort provided information to Kilminik on PA, MI, WI, and MN, it leaves one question unanswered:

    Whatever happened with the voter data that Bernie Sanders’ campaign stole from Hillary Clinton? Where did that end up?

  118. 118
    TenguPhule says:

    Jaws is afraid of Free Willy.

    A new study published in Nature this week demonstrated that when pods of orcas entered an area around South Farallon Island off the coast of San Francisco, the great white sharks in the area cleared out — and didn’t return for months.

    No ocean predator is more fearsome in the public imagination than the great white shark, but even they appear to steer clear of orcas, highly intelligent pack hunters that have been observed on rare occasions to attack great whites — and eat their livers.

    “On one occasion, we had 17 sharks that we were tracking simultaneously at the island when a group of orcas showed up,” said Salvador Jorgensen of the Monterey Bay Aquarium, who led the study that involved Stanford University and Point Blue Conservation Science.

    “We were able to see from the data all the sharks leaving the side of the island the orcas had arrived on,” he said, “and within a few hours had vacated the island completely.”

  119. 119
    Tom Q says:

    So, a few thoughts after a long, exhausting day:

    1) Barr’s weeks-ago letter, as we know from polling, didn’t have the intended effect of setting the narrative. But today’s performance I think was actually counter-productive: his obvious shilling — which became crystal clear the moment anyone started reading the actual reporting — made a good portion of the press actively angry, which seems to have caused most to accentuate the negative for Trump in their reporting.

    Note: this is the honest reading of the report, but our pathetic press corps has so often leaned toward tender understanding of GOP behavior that merely reporting out accurately comes off as revolutionary.

    2) An awful lot of people, even on the good team, have spent several weeks assuming there was no evidence of collusion. The report makes it clear there’s, in fact, a TON of such evidence, but a) Mueller was looking at a very narrow criminal definition and b) just as with obstruction, he wouldn’t have indicted on it; he’d have done the same “over to you, House of Representatives”

    3) Fuck Steny Hoyer. Dems who think Pelosi is a party problem should direct ten times the vitriol at go-along-to-get-along Steny. I really doubt his fellow Dems are on board with this statement, and in fact I suspect everyone (including the leadership) is furious with him.

    4) I don’t see how impeachment is avoided. This is a damning report, and that’s only going to become more obvious as days go by and more details are absorbed.

  120. 120
    William Dudley says:

    @lamh36: in response to stem hoyer’s implication that the election makes impeachment unnecessary — I would say we need impeachment proceedings (even if senate doesn’t convict) to have an informed american electorate.

  121. 121
    lamh36 says:

    @bobcesca_go
    5h5 hours ago
    More
    Manafort gave the GRU proprietary internal polling data on Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania –the states that won the presidency for Trump– with the obvious intention of focusing the IRA/GRU attacks on those battlegrounds. Trump is president because of Russia.

    @susiemcdonnell
    Follow Follow @susiemcdonnell
    More
    Replying to @bobcesca_go
    Didn’t just give him the polling data – had discussions with him about their strategy in those states – how that doesn’t rise to conspiracy or coordination is beyond me.

    4:07 PM – 18 Apr 2019

  122. 122
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: Bannon and Prince deleted texts that Mueller believes got to the heart of Prince’s Seychelles meeting.

  123. 123
    TenguPhule says:

    @Tom Q:

    I don’t see how impeachment is avoided.

    now we all get to find out, one way or another.

  124. 124
    Another Scott says:

    @lamh36: We’ve known that for a while – Putin was desperate to keep Hillary out of the White House because he knew she was going to be tough on him (sanctions, etc.). It’s good to see it in writing, though.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  125. 125
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Raoul: Hoyer has been in Congress too long.

  126. 126
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Fair Economist: I’ve seen a fair number of Twitter leftists whose immediate reaction was to preemptively bash the Democrats (Democrats in general, not just, say, Steny Hoyer) for all the caving to Trump they’re going to do on this, which was the basis for my other comment. But they weren’t the Greenwald/Michael Tracey crowd.

  127. 127
    lamh36 says:

    @lynnv378
    2m2 minutes ago
    More
    Knowing that Manafort provided information to Kilminik on PA, MI, WI, and MN, it leaves one question unanswered:

    Whatever happened with the voter data that Bernie Sanders’ campaign stole from Hillary Clinton? Where did that end up?

    Over to you…folks who been knocking the HRC campaign…the report has evidence that YES Russian meddled in the campaign and did so to fuq over HRC….yes maybe they couldn’t “prove” it was “collusion” by the Trump camp…but it proves…

    YES RUSSIAN DID MEDDLE IN THE DAMN ELECTIONS….AND GUESS WHAT THEY STILL ARE!!!

  128. 128
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @patrick II: Oh, dear. “Imagine if Barr had been in charge from the beginning.” sounds like we need to be grateful to that little twerp, Session, if only because he had no idea how much this administration would be able to get away with.

  129. 129
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: He had a very specific remit and he makes it very clear in the report that multiple witnesses deleted/destroyed information, but that because of that destruction he cannot determine if it was actual evidence.

    There is only so much the IC can provide. Text messages between Bannon and Prince, especially if Prince is in the US, are not something the IC is going to have unless a FISA warrant was issued for one or both of them. And one was not.

  130. 130
    Emerald says:

    The one thing I’m taking from this entire mess is that if we don’t impeach, whether or not we can get a conviction, then the President of the U.S. indeed is above the law.

    Impeachment would set out the evidence directly in front of the public. It’s obviously damning. Watching the senate Republicans refuse to convict ought to be the final nail in their coffin as a viable political party. (Not that it would be, just that it ought to be.)

  131. 131
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Bannon and Prince deleted texts that Mueller believes got to the heart of Prince’s Seychelles meeting.

    Ah VG missed that (been doing searches). Here’s one such bit for others:

    The conflicting accounts provided by Bannon and Prince could not be independently clarified by reviewing their communications, because neither one was able to produce any of the messages they exchanged in the time period surrounding the Seychelles meeting. Prince’s phone contained no text messages prior to March 2017, though provider records indicate that he and Bannon exchanged dozens of messages. Prince denied deleting any messages but claimed he did not know why there were no messages on his device before March 2017. Bannon’s devices similarly contained no messages in the relevant time period, and Bannon also stated he did not know why messages did not appear on his device.

  132. 132
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @TenguPhule: Interesting to note that the Merriam-Webster word of the day on Twitter is bald-faced.

  133. 133
    VeniceRiley says:

    @Raoul:

    @VeniceRiley: Yeah, livid here too.
    Anyone in Maryland on here who may want to weigh in on Mckayla Wilkes for MD-05?
    I’m sure it’s a long shot, but Steny needs to be informed that he’s not in this fight for the right reasons any more.

    By LIVID, I mean I would vote for an eggplant to get Steny out. Solely because of this today.

  134. 134
    Aleta says:

    About Congress and impeachment proceedings, we know that some like Kamala Harris have already called for the prior step, bringing Mueller before them to testify. Her press secretary Ian Sams didn’t delay in talking obstruction (and Barr’s lies) as soon as possible this morning.

    Ian Sams @IanSams
    Mueller says that many Trump aides would not be charged with obstruction *because* they refused Trump’s orders to obstruct. The natural takeaway is Trump’s intent was to obstruct justice. Flies in the face of Barr’s claims.

  135. 135
    TenguPhule says:

    @Gelfling 545: There are no coincidences.

  136. 136

    @Mnemosyne:He was my Congress critter when I lived in MD. I don’t think the dude has had a primary challenger in forever. And his district is 80% D.

  137. 137
    TenguPhule says:

    National Enquirer is being sold for $100 million to James Cohen, CEO of Hudson News

    Because of course its just that kind of day.

  138. 138
    TenguPhule says:

    Monkey Punch, Japanese cartoonist of Lupin III manga and anime series, dies at 81

    Oh gods damn it.

  139. 139
    MomSense says:

    I was so busy at work today that I couldn’t tune in to any news at all.

    So, what did I miss?

  140. 140
    lamh36 says:

    “We shouldn’t impeach because it isn’t what the voters want” is an extremely blinkered vision of politics that presupposes a world where public opinion cannot be moved and political parties cannot shape the political landscape through coordinated action.

    @jbouie
    1m1 minute ago
    More
    “We shouldn’t impeach because the Senate won’t convict” is an instrumentalist vision of politics that treats it primarily as a tool for removal & ignores the importance of the PROCESS of impeachment as well as the fact that lawmakers have constitutional responsibilities.

    @jbouie
    2m2 minutes ago
    More
    “We shouldn’t impeach because it will make Trump more popular/help him win reelection” is pure conjecture without any evidence other than the half-remembered outcome of the Clinton impeachment. Give it 2 minutes thought and it doesn’t hold together.

  141. 141
    TenguPhule says:

    @MomSense:

    So, what did I miss?

    10 dumpster fires and a burning tire.

  142. 142

    NANCY SMASH is currently in the UK. She’s been there for at least a week, it seems to me. There is not a lot of news coming out about her, so I surmise that she is talking to people about strategies on Brexit and how the US is likely to respond. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were an element of alliance between Democrats and Remainers and discussion of how to end the Russian meddling in both our countries.

    So you will not see a lot from her now. That’s fine – her people need to read the Mueller report carefully and figure out what’s next.

    I have thought all along that part of what she is waiting for is more public, loud support for impeachment. Keep in mind that every move changes everything in this game. We can do a cool analysis that impeachment is a poor bet politically because the Republicans have made it meaningless or because it will draw Trump’s supporters to his aid. All that is true until it isn’t.

    Barr overreached to a point that it looks to me like the media are getting maybe a little smarter. The overwhelming message of the report is that Trump is utterly contemptuous of the law and was fine with working with the Russians. It’s been dribbling out piece by piece, but now it’s all in a continuous story.

    I can’t tell you what things will look like in 48 hours, but my sense is that we’re getting closer to impeachment.

    Anyone know when NANCY SMASH comes back to the US?

  143. 143
    Fair Economist says:

    @TenguPhule:

    To be fair, if anyone had tried to explain a quarter of what was in Mueller’s report to the general public 3 years ago, they’d have been labeled a crazy conspiracy theorist.

    Yes. What has happened is that Putin has marshalled the resources of an entire country to do the crazy things needed for those crazy conspiracy theories to be true. There are now demonstrably literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of people who job is literally spreading lies through the media all day long. There are hundreds of millions in bribes and support for co-conspirators. It’s quite boggling – but we have receipts!

  144. 144
    ruemara says:

    @schrodingers_cat: This is a primary challenge I would support.

  145. 145
    Bill Arnold says:

    @TenguPhule:

    National Enquirer is being sold for $100 million to James Cohen, CEO of Hudson News

    Anyone know about his politics? Not much showing up. (No wikipedia page either. Yet. :-)
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-18/embattled-national-enquirer-reportedly-sold-to-hudson-news-ceo

  146. 146
    Tom Q says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I read somewhere else that he’s been extremely successful at bringing money/projects into his district, which counts for a lot in a primary challenge.

    I normally sneer at purists advocating primary challenges, but Steny seems to me to be the guy who actually validates the purist crusades. He’s way too accommodating to GOP spin; seems to think we’re still in the mid-80s and Dems have to pretend to be semi-Repubs to win.

  147. 147
    Dan B says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Does it seem to you that Pelosi and the Dem leadership are considering whether impeachment will result in reducing the power of the elements most toxic to US democractic institutions, ie. McConnell’s cabal, Mercer/Koch/Adelson etc.?

    The big message Hoyer seems to reinforce is: Dems are wimps, not: We are saving our ammo for the big battle. He imagines it’s the latter message.

  148. 148
    BlueDWarrior says:

    @lamh36: I belive Trump should be impeached. I also understand doing so would be a declaration of war against the Republican party.

    Do enough elected Democrats jabbed three stomach for that is the question…

  149. 149
    lamh36 says:

    the MSM were always gonna report it as if Dems in Congress are political cowards… and the GOP were always gonna call out Dems as partisan over the report and impeachment.

    As Betty and others have said… not doing impeachment for political cowardice reasons is fine…but know this…doing so even with the evidence even with the redacted stuff…means you are impliciting saying the office of the President of the United States IS above the law as long as it is too politically courage for us to do anything about it.

    And guess what…do we REALLY think, the GOP would do the same thing in the case of a Dem President?

    We all know they wouldn’t…

    I get that the old guard are like “remember the Clinton days”…but come on now…Bill Clinton was a much MORE POPULAR President than Chump is even among his own electorate…

    the world today is not the same world it is from back then…the things the GOP impeached BC on pales in comparison to ANYTHING that the Mueller report shows that Chump co did!

    @TheLeadCNN
    Follow Follow @TheLeadCNN
    More
    Former WH counsel John Dean: “I looked on my shelf for the Senate Watergate Committee report, I looked at the Iran Contra report. I also looked at the Ken Starr report … In 400 words, this report from the special counsel is more damning than all those reports about a President.”

  150. 150
    Fleeting Expletive says:

    I had a dream last night that the pee tape was released and consisted of smearing feces on walls and anything related to Obama, a la Assange. There were speechless pundits. Pandemonium. It was scary.
    Also, what I’m seeing of Mueller’s report is an exquisitely elegant argument by say the great legal minds on the USSC. I don’t know yet what to think about that, I want to read it and read analysts whose thoughts may add value when they read it carefully as well.
    The report appears to hit a lot of anticipated roadblocks (no POTUS indictment, for example) with a clear agenda set out for Congress & DOJ to fix deficiencies in his prosecutorial toolbox. Likewise Congress needs to clarify cyberlaw blind spots. I’m unclear about whether receiving stolen data for use in political campaign is actionable if you don’t know it’s stolen? Is that what we’re seeing as a defense?

    Dear Moderators here—can you make my nym and fake email address stick? I’d love to comment more sometimes but re-entering them inhibits me. Thank you.

  151. 151
    rikyrah says:

    Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) Tweeted:
    To name a few:

    1-Trump claimed he never asked for loyalty from Comey – Mueller found he did.
    2-Trump claimed he never asked Comey to let Flynn matter go – Mueller found he did.
    3-Trump claimed he never pushed McGahn to fire Mueller – Mueller found he did. https://t.co/QdFTP0ZTFm https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1118949256730238981?s=17

  152. 152
    Another Scott says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: She ended her trip to Ireland on the 17th, so presumably she will be back today or tomorrow (unless she’s going somewhere else on the way back).

    I haven’t been able to find her itinerary.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  153. 153
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Barr overreached to a point that it looks to me like the media are getting maybe a little smarter.

    More than a little bit IMO. The DJT Administration has been training wheels for a press gone soft and corporate (worse than in the e.g. 80s/90s) and ludicrously manipulable using obvious techniques.
    (Roll playing an optimist here. :-)

  154. 154
    TenguPhule says:

    @Bill Arnold: :Looks like he’s someone who operates out of the public eye. The man has been quietly collecting digital media companies for years, according to some news articles.

  155. 155
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Actually she’s basically put the UK on notice to get their act together.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/no-chance-of-us-uk-trade-deal-if-brexit-risks-belfast-agreement-pelosi-1.3863434

    Nothing must happen to imperil the Belfast Agreement and the seamless Border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, US speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi has said.

    She told the Dáil the Belfast Agreement should be treasured, not only because of what it has meant for Ireland and Northern Ireland but because it had become a beacon of hope for all the world.

    A lengthy standing ovation greeted Ms Pelosi when she entered the Dáil chamber to address TDs, Senators and former members of the Oireachtas, along with a large delegation from the US House of Representatives.

    Ms Pelosi repeated her warning that “if the Brexit deal undermines the accord there will be no chance of a US-UK agreement” on trade.

    “I say that hopefully, that we will not have to face that reality.”

    She told a full Dáil chamber that “as you face the challenges posed by Brexit, know that the Democrats and Republics in the House stand with you”.

    To sustained applause, she said: “We must ensure that nothing happens in the Brexit discussions that imperils the Good Friday Accord, including but not limited to the seamless Border between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland.”

  156. 156
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    so I surmise that she is talking to people about strategies on Brexit and how the US is likely to respond.

    The only winning strategy is not to go through with it.

  157. 157
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: The hedge fund that currently owns it wants to dump it ASAP because of the Bezos stuff. They’ve had trouble finding a buyer. Some were hoping Bezos would buy it. The real question is what happens to the contents of Pecker’s safe?

  158. 158
    Dan B says:

    @lamh36: Hoyer could have said: Mueller has revealed many smoking guns. Congress will decide which to pursue to ensure our democracy and the will of the people is protected.

  159. 159
    Adam L Silverman says:

  160. 160
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Dan B: I don’t know. I’m looking at all of this from the same vantage point that you are: the outside looking in.

  161. 161
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The real question is what happens to the contents of Pecker’s safe?

    I expect the contents will be expelled with great force.

  162. 162
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Mueller says Congress has the right to review the evidence on obstruction.

    But does it have the willpower?

  163. 163
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Fair Economist:

    I find this extremely disturbing. Hypothetically Rose Twitter is pro-socialist and they should have have plenty to say about honest issues and Bernie’s campaign even if they are infiltrated/manipulated by Russians and Republicans. But silence? That implies everything coming out of Rose Twitter is being driven by Russians and Republicans. (Of course individuals have opinions, but it’s the Russian/Republican amplification that makes it loud.)

    This Rose Twitter says: impeach Trump. Get the rest of the report. Reveal how many OTHER Republicans are caught up in all this. Signs point to ‘lots’.

    This is no time to go ‘impeachment is bad politically because Republicans will say no and that will make us look bad’. When they’re TRAITORS? JFC.

    I get that it’s too big for Mueller to fix all this for us. What’s redacted must be hair-raising: you realize what’s getting out is the LEAST they can possibly reveal, and it’s completely appalling? What remains is gonna be ‘and the Republican Senate are the ones who actively turned traitor, as Trump was too much of a bozo to be trusted with treasonous activity’. There’s a reason stuff is redacted. It’s been redacted by a nakedly political operator working for traitors. They must all think they’re going to be guzzling polonium tea any day now. Or polonium beer, if you’re Kavanaugh.

    This rose twitter wants them all fucking shot for treason. Don’t be fooled by the extensive and confirmed Russian social media hackery.

    And as I posted downthread, I checked out rose-twitter-land on reddit (r/chapotraphouse) and it is CARPETED by operatives making sure nobody is talking about anything Mueller, and drowning what they can’t suppress with sarcasm and astroturf. If you know what to look for it’s a really active operation right around now. Nobody is allowed to get a thread started about anything Mueller. It’s gotta be buried with coordinated downvoting to make sure the rose-folks don’t wise up. Be careful not to stay in your bubble, folks! You gotta peek into enemy territory in order to see what propaganda they are being fed. That’s the name of the game since 2016. As Mueller has unhappily confirmed in no uncertain terms.

  164. 164
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Another Scott:

    I haven’t been able to find her itinerary.

    You don’t need to know.

  165. 165
    Josie says:

    Chuck Todd just raised the point that no government official is outraged by the proof that Mueller gave about the Russian government interfering successfully in our election. I know – blind squirrel, nuts, etc., but I want to hear more of the press pick up on this.

  166. 166
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Nadler announced he was issuing a subpoena around 4 PM EDT today and that he will take it to court if necessary to get the underlying evidence. So we’ll see.

  167. 167
    lamh36 says:

    <stro@Cheryl Rofer: Chuckles sounded downright perturbed

  168. 168
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    Does that include the safe(s) stuffed with bought and killed stories?

    Inquiring minds….

  169. 169
    Dan B says:

    @Raoul: @lamh36: Proves that David Corn is smarter than Hoyer. Obvious, I know. It also proves that Corn is living in 2019 and Hoyer in the 60’s or 70’s. He remembers the Dems failing to get traction with Iran Contra and believes you can’t stop the corruption.
    I’m imagining how AOC, and all the new women and Maxine would respond to the Barr Pravda Presser.

  170. 170
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    @NotMax:

    The real question is what happens to the contents of Pecker’s safe?

    Yes, indeed. That might be (probably is) the most valuable part of the property.

  171. 171
    Another Scott says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Life is so unfair sometimes…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  172. 172
    Ruckus says:

    @lamh36:
    Rosentein may be standing there to keep his job. OTOH he may want to be there.

  173. 173
    Jay says:

    @Dan B:

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    @AOC
    ·
    40m
    Mueller’s report is clear in pointing to Congress’ responsibility in investigating obstruction of justice by the President.

    It is our job as outlined in Article 1, Sec 2, Clause 5 of the US Constitution.

    As such, I’ll be signing onto
    @RashidaTlaib
    ’s impeachment resolution.

  174. 174
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Fair Economist: Twitter is a goddamn phantasm. Like Facebook is a paid Russian propaganda outlet with really sophisticated victim profiling.

    I’m seeing people talk about Rose Twitter and I’m thinking, huh. Yeah, I bet at least half of specifically Rose Twitter is Russian bots. Probably half the Bernie Bros were/are Russian bots/operations. People who were legitimately part of these organizations will not stir up shit the way wolves in sheeps’ clothing will. Remember the Russians also got into the NRA. There is NO safe haven, the way these people and their cyberwarfare work, they will be maximally effective on social networks and especially places with user-moderated content (HI REDDIT). Twitter is controlled by a rightwinger Silicon Valley zillionaire already. Of COURSE it is loaded with operatives.

    I’m not sorry to be a rose-toting socialist type, but I’m increasingly sorry to be on Twitter, and extra sorry these stupid social networks exist and got everybody so invested in them. That combined with the avarice of the network owners means we’ve got royally fucked, and nobody is safe from getting infiltrated, but it’s super obvious the left has been weaponized. I can’t trust a goddamn thing I see with a rose-twitter handle now that I know what went down. I don’t post about politics on twitter myself.

  175. 175
    Dan B says:

    @Fair Economist: Imagine if Hoyer had said: Mueller says his investigation was limited and Congress should follow the leads he has pointed out.

    The MSM would go nuts!
    Dems to Keep Digging!
    Barr Says Pres Not Guilty, Dems Say Hold Your Horses,
    Dems Say This Begins Next Phase of Investigation

    Use simple language to set the narrative. It has power.

  176. 176
    kim powell says:

    The House needs to haul Eric Prince before them and formally charge him with lying to Congress and perjury.

  177. 177
    Dan B says:

    @Fair Economist: Your few clear sentences seem like a suitable template for Dem messaging and action. I’d avoid the word impeachment because the public think it means indict. ‘Investigate’ is probably clearer to the general public. And you can launch many and tie them to the 14 others Mueller farmed out. I want the Trump cabal investigated until 2020. Death by 1000 cuts may be far superior, and catch more criminals, than one big blast.

  178. 178
    Chris Johnson says:

    From downthread since it seemed to speak for some others:

    Watch for places where coordinated posting/voting can suppress information.

    reddit r/chapotraphouse is undergoing a FULL COURT PRESS to silence any discussion of any of this. It’s like nothing had happened at all. It’s chilling. Reddit lets you downvote threads and posts… I wonder how r/politics is doing.

    I think there’s probably Russians here pushing for the opposite, but hesitantly ‘cos it’s a lot more important to suppress all this than it is to heighten the contradictions. Plus, in so doing they would be aligning with the eventual outcome.

    I’m guessing the 12 unknown criminals are all or mostly Senators. If this shit is what they WILL let us see so far, God help us when we work out what really happened. I think Mueller considers himself a dead man walking at this point.

    It seems to me like he went, “Fine. My party are a gang of traitors working with the Russians. The only reason my President didn’t is, he’s an idiot, and he absolutely wanted and intended to work with the Russians and got sidelined because he is incompetent even to conspire. Our whole government is compromised and it’s ‘too big to fail’, we can’t possibly survive jailing most of the Senate, the President is literally a traitor and I’m holding the bag for all of it, with the Democrats wanting ME to throw all the bad guys in jail so they don’t have to get their hands dirty.”

    “Screw it. I’m a dead man at this point, especially if they want me to testify. I will dump the whole thing in the Democrats’ lap, and THEY can deal with it. I’m out.”

    In fairness, I do think he has not nearly enough authority to cope with all this. It’s a massive constitutional crisis and/or civil cold war being groomed to become open civil war.

    So in a sense he is right…

    Dems must open impeachment proceedings and GET THE REST of that information, PUBLICALLY. And follow through. Do you think Republican outright traitors will agree to impeach the President when most likely a bunch of them are tangled up in all this too? Of course they won’t, because our whole structure of government has failed and pretending otherwise is just enabling a coup.

    So impeach anyway, and expose everything publically. It is starkly criminal, starkly treasonous, and we don’t ask criminals for permission to find them guilty. If it leads to Senate Republicans defying justice, make them do it and own it and try to spin it (already happening!). If we have open war within our borders then so be it. Better now than years from now, after the Republicans have dug in and set up their death squads and camps etc etc (obviously some of that is already set up. Projection. We’ve been hearing how they think for years and years and years now)

    No more treason.

  179. 179
    NotMax says:

    @Chris Johnson

    Had already amended the “3 Wishes From a Genie” list to include Facebook, Twitter and the like to never, past present and future, exist.

    Still need to find that blasted bottle….

    ;)

  180. 180
    Kathleen says:

    @lamh36: My hunch is that this is a “trial balloon” floated with Nancy Smash’s blessing.
    ETA: You made so many excellent points on the previous thread but I was too late to respond there.

  181. 181
    Dan B says:

    @lamh36: Hoyer logic: I saw someone hit their thumb with a hammer, and there’s Lizzie Borden. Hammers don’t work. I don’t like hammers. Hammers are scarey!

    AOC & Maxine: Step aside and watch us, hammers, screw guns, nail guns, and probably some chainsaws. And a house plus a ton of bricks and a piano.

  182. 182
    GregMulka says:

    @TenguPhule:

    True. Hindsight is 20-20 and all that.

  183. 183
    Kathleen says:

    @ruemara: I contend that 2016 was a coup and Bernie Slanders was complicit. The point of his candidacy then and now is to destroy the Democratic Party and ensure Fascist authoritarian rule. Rethuglicans and their media enablers also love Slanders for that reason. They do not want him to get nomination or presidency because his influence would weaken considerably. They want him right where he is and are compensating him handsomely for his ongoing efforts.

  184. 184
    Kathleen says:

    @lamh36: Boom.

  185. 185
    Kathleen says:

    @Josie: Because they know people like Chuck Todd has their backs.

  186. 186
    Dan B says:

    @Adam L Silverman: From a strategic perspective could Pelosi kneecap the Mercer/Koch/Adelson, or get one while scaring the rest, if Mueller spinoff investigations reveal a Russia-NRA or Russia-Prince-Heartland-API election interference connection?

  187. 187
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kathleen:

    Nancy is apparently in Ireland right now, so somebody’s gonna be in BIG TROUBLE for letting Steny off his leash while Nonna was out of town.

  188. 188
    Kathleen says:

    @Mnemosyne: I think it’s possible that he was trying to engineer some support for impeachment by playing the bad cop (I watch too much L&O)!

  189. 189
    J R in WV says:

    @BlueDWarrior:

    Do enough elected Democrats jabbed three stomach for that is the question…

    Does anyone know what original language this was poorly translated from? What did this guy try to say? Not english to me….

  190. 190
    TenguPhule says:

    @J R in WV: I believe he was trying to say “Do enough elected Democrats have the stomach for that is the question.”

    And it could be a phone autocorrect issue, some of the other Jackals have mentioned that stuff happens when you use a small phone to type up a wordy comment.

Comments are closed.