Breaking News: The Stone Structure of the Cathedral of Notre Dame Has Been Saved

The BBC is reporting that:

BREAKING‘Structure saved’

Reuters news agency is quoting an official with the French firefighting team as saying: “We can now say that the structure of Notre-Dame has been saved from total destruction”.

AFP is also reporting that the main structure has been “saved and preserved”, citing an official.

This is much better news than I think many were expecting.

Open thread!






99 replies
  1. 1
    Miss Bianca says:

    Merci, bon Dieu.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    One of the only pieces of good news from today

  3. 3
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    I was pretty much holding it together until I saw a video posted on twitter of the residents of Paris surrounding the Cathedral singing hymns and saying the Rosary. I totally lost it at that point. Thank whoever that the structure has been saved. It could have been much worse.

  4. 4
    different-church-lady says:

    Not to be a killjoy (er… kill-silver-lining?) but we’re talking about pretty much nothing more the stone shell here, yes?

  5. 5
    trollhattan says:

    Let’s hear it for flying buttresses!

    I love the word buttress.

  6. 6
    Spanky says:

    @different-church-lady: And the carvings thereon.

  7. 7
    NotMax says:

    Saved, perhaps. Preserved is another matter, as there will be structural damage sufficient to necessitate demolishing at least some parts.

  8. 8
    lamh36 says:

    @CNN
    Follow Follow @CNN
    More
    JUST IN: Former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld has announced he is officially entering the race for president, becoming the first Republican to challenge President Donald Trump in the 2020 race https://cnn.it/2UDU4BT

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    Good news.

  10. 10
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @lamh36:

    He’ll be swatted like a fly, but perhaps he can be a bit of annoyance first.

    BTW, has Wilmer released the ten years’ worth of his tax returns yet? Or is Jane still dotting each t and crossing each i?

  11. 11
    MomSense says:

    Is it wrong that I’m obsessing about a particular gargoyle?

  12. 12
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: Good. Primarying presidents seeking reelection signals that those presidents are weak. See: Ford, Gerald; Carter, James; Bush, George H W.

  13. 13
    CaseyL says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I don’t dare play any of that here at work, as I’m sniffling up just looking at the photos.

    Twice in my life have I been so overcome by the sheer beauty of a human-made structure that my knees buckled and I cried. Notre Dame is one – and I am one of the most secular persons you will ever meet. (The Sydney Opera House is the other.)

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    Josh Marshall

    To me, the most surprising developments in the Democratic presidential race have been the rise of South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg and the failure of Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren’s campaign to catch hold.  According to betting sites, Buttigieg is a six to one favorite to win the nomination, and Warren a distant 25 to one.  There is a long way until the caucuses and primaries, but here are some guesses why Buttigieg has caught fire and a few thoughts why Warren’s flame has flickered.

    FWIW

  15. 15
    MomSense says:

    @different-church-lady:

    If the stone shell is saved, that will be a miracle.

  16. 16
    Damien says:

    Not to be navel-gazing, but does anyone else feel a strong metaphor to what America is going through with this horrific scenario?

    One of the things that is fundamental to American identity is our free and fair democratic elections (whether fully accurate or not), and Notre Dame core to the identity of the French. We pass it by constantly, because it’s such a core part of us we would never believe it could be destroyed.

    Then suddenly through negligence or malfeasance (negligence in the case of Notre Dame, it appears) suddenly the thing that makes us who we are is on fire. It’s revealed weaknesses in the design, and torn down much of what we care about in a conflagration of horrific, public destruction that we could do little about.

    But we’ve saved the stone structure, the core, that somehow we will have to use to rebuild these symbols together, one a physical structure with a thousand years of meaning imbued into it, the other an ideal that is built and strengthened by all of us together into the physically important structure of these United States.

    With heavy hearts we will have to rebuild Notre Dame, no matter how hard it is or how long it takes.

    I feel the same way here.

  17. 17
    Mnemosyne says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Stone, yes, but keep in mind how much of the artistry lies in the stone carvings and statues on the interior and exterior, which have now been saved. Plus it sounds like most or all of the portable artworks were saved or were stored off-site and not endangered.

    I even have some hope for the stained glass. Yes, the leading gave way since lead melts at 650 degrees F, but it turns out that I was looking at the Celsius number for the melting temperature of glass and it’s more like 2550 degrees F, so it’s quite possible that at least some of the glass can be salvaged. I’m sure that the conservators will be going over the ruins very carefully and seeing what they can salvage as soon as they can safely do so.

  18. 18
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    In three threads almost entirely devoted to the fire at Notre Dame, I’m slightly surprised that Suzanne, our own resident architect, hasn’t commented yet.

    (Actually, now I think of it, she doesn’t usually post during working hours, so not really a surprise. But I will definitely look forward to seeing what she has to say later on.)

  19. 19
    Miss Bianca says:

    @MomSense: Which particular gargoyle? You have a particular gargoyle? Is that like a Particular Friend, in Regency parlance?

  20. 20
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MomSense:

  21. 21
    piratedan says:

    @Baud: the fact that Warren is a woman with actual ideas and policies and a plan is obviously showing that she’s simply not wise enough to provide the news media with the bumper sticker platitudes that allow them to take a candidate seriously. and yeah, she’s a woman and she’s smarter than them so that earnestly scares the ever loving shit out of them, so she’ll be denied soapboxes and access to that sweet faucet of free media that every man will enjoy.

  22. 22
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Damien:

    I’ve been thinking of the two things in tandem all day long.

  23. 23
    rikyrah says:

    Isn’t this Mr. Impeach Trump vanity project?

    Kenneth P. Vogel (@kenvogel) Tweeted:
    NEW: @TomSteyer, a multi-million $ donor to @AmProg, is not pleased about @thinkprogress’ video critiquing @BernieSanders: “I will use my voice on CAP’s Board of Directors to discourage any such attacks on any candidate seeking the Democratic nomination in the future.” https://t.co/4WfA7yuMj4 https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1117842864350822407?s=17

  24. 24
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Baud:

    It’s sexism.

    Next question.

  25. 25
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: I think she likes Bronx:
    https://gargoyles.fandom.com/wiki/Bronx

  26. 26
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    BTW, has Wilmer released the ten years’ worth of his tax returns yet? Or is Jane still dotting each t and crossing each i?

    She originally dotted each t and crossed each i, and then realized she had to go back and redo all of them. That’s why it’s taking so long. Just a silly mistake.

  27. 27
    MomSense says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Yes, he was my gargoyle – we had words every morning when I went to light candles.

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That was my middle son’s favorite show when he was little. He had some health problems when he was very young and we spent many nights watching gargoyles while he had his nebulizer treatments.

  28. 28
    Baud says:

    @piratedan:
    @Mnemosyne:

    Maybe she’s overprepared.

  29. 29
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Baud: oh, ffs. Let me break it down for you, Josh: Elizabeth Warren is a woman of a certain age, who was lauded while she was one of the anti-Hillarys, but as soon as she threatened to bear the bell of True Progressive away from Bernie Sanders, and was crass enough to *actually* want to run for President, she had to be taken down, by any means necessary, so if “Pocahontas” gibes hadn’t been ready to hand they would have to have been manufactured. Meanwhile, that cute Mayor Pete is flavor of the month because he is young, white, male, long on soaring rhetoric and short on both experience and the actual, practical policy solutions such as Warren offers and which the political media punditeers, of whom you are one, have deemed too BOORRRRIIIINNNNGGG to cover with any depth or seriousness.

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:

    @NotMax:

    Generally speaking, they should be able to save much of the stone artwork even if there is damage to the underlying structure. It may not be preserved in the exact same format as it was before the fire, but I’m sure they will make every effort to preserve as much as humanly possible.

    I’m guessing that any artwork that was carved or painted on the wooden beams is a total loss, sadly.

  31. 31
    Emerald says:

    @Damien: Well said, sir. Well said indeed.

    And in fact we’re going to find out very soon if our stone structure will survive. Mango Mussolini has instructed his accountant to ignore the congressional subpoena.

    That was, of course, predictable and predicted. Now the question is: will our stone structure of laws hold up, or not?

  32. 32
    karen marie says:

    @lamh36: People love to bitch about what’s her name draining votes from Clinton but that jackass Gary Johnson and his sidekick Bill Weld got more than 2x as many votes as she did. Weld can GFH.

  33. 33
    FlyingToaster (Tablet) says:

    @Baud: Misogyny is not just a brand of dessert topping…

  34. 34
    Mnemosyne says:

    @MomSense:

    I work with a guy who was a production assistant on that show. I’ll tell him that you and your son say hi. 😘

  35. 35
    West of the Rockies says:

    @MomSense:

    In a Whovian universe, perhaps they would have flown away.

  36. 36
    Brachiator says:

    @MomSense:

    Is it wrong that I’m obsessing about a particular gargoyle?

    I was going to ask: Goliath? Demona?

    Didn’t realize that I had nailed it.

  37. 37
    MomSense says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    🙏🙏🙏

    @West of the Rockies:

    They came alive at night to save people!

  38. 38
    MomSense says:

    @Brachiator:

    Looked a little like Yoda he did.

  39. 39
    dmsilev says:

    @Mnemosyne: The glass itself might be ok, but a lot of the tints and dyes break down at lower temperatures. I’m sure they’ll save as much as humanly possible, but I wouldn’t be too optimistic about being able to salvage much.

  40. 40
    Miss Bianca says:

    @MomSense: Awww… : (

  41. 41
    ruemara says:

    @Mnemosyne: Tell him I adore that show. It was one of the best.

    @Brachiator: Everyone loves Goliath. What’s not to love?

  42. 42
    germy says:

    Bernie’s taxes?

    The Sanders campaign embargoed them. Only an unethical journalist would agree to an embargo on a tax return release by a political candidate. https://t.co/aIwLY4v4kw— Tom Watson (@tomwatson) April 15, 2019

  43. 43
    West of the Rockies says:

    @FlyingToaster (Tablet):

    I’m hoping that through the campaigns, the cream will rise. I hope the others come through wiser and ready to still contribute to the Progressive agenda as congress(wo)men, governors, cabinet members, etc.

  44. 44
    Tenar Arha says:

    So, new topic, & also because swear to dog it wouldn’t surprise me if it happened right now, but has anyone seen any confirmation that Bernie Sanders released his tax returns today as promised?

  45. 45
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, wow! How did I miss this one? Was it a TV show?

  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MomSense: I’m glad I could at least be somewhat topical while going way off topic.

  47. 47
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I hope there has been infighting about how the campaign should handle criticisms that will/may arise once the returns are public.

    Some of the moves from them the last two weeks seemed designed to preempt this release (if it happens); the campaign messaging about book $ of course, and Bern’s letter yesterday denouncing the destructive slander of him that is financed by …

  48. 48
    West of the Rockies says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Also, it’s early. Hope to FSM Harris or Warren pick up some momentum as the Hickenkoopers and the like fade.

  49. 49
    Aleta says:

    @MomSense: quite the opposite!

  50. 50
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Yes, Disney cartoon.

  51. 51
    Brachiator says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    @Baud: oh, ffs. Let me break it down for you, Josh: Elizabeth Warren is a woman of a certain age, who was lauded while she was one of the anti-Hillarys, but as soon as she threatened to bear the bell of True Progressive away from Bernie Sanders, and was crass enough to *actually* want to run for President, she had to be taken down, by any means necessary, so if “Pocahontas” gibes hadn’t been ready to hand they would have to have been manufactured.

    The Sanders true believers will take down anyone, male or female, who threatens their Beloved Bernie.

    And yeah, you can throw some sexism on top of that.

    I have not paid much attention to Mayor Pete or any of the media coverage he is getting. But I keep thinking one day the media will announce, “Oh, we didn’t realize that you wuz ghey. Now we got to unleash the homophobia.” That he is white and male is not going to shield him from anti-gay bigotry.

  52. 52
    Icedfire30 says:

    @Miss Bianca: For what it’s worth, it was John Judis posting that editorial and not Josh Marshall. I’m not sure if Josh has actually opined much on Mayor Pete.

    Hopefully I won’t step in it here, but have you listened to and/or read any of the more in depth interviews of Mayor Pete? Given his command and facility in discussing a wide range of issues, I believe that it is unfair to describe him as only having oratory and rhetoric – he clearly has the intelligence to prepare and present more detail-oriented policy positions. Whether it is a winning strategy over the course of the campaign is eminently debatable, of course, and that debate aside it is immaterial to and does not change the fact that it is inexcusable how quickly and readily the policies put forth by Warren, Harris, Klobuchar, and rest of our excellent female candidates are dismissed and ignored.

    tl;dr – I both believe Pete has more depth as a candidate than many people think as well as believe that there is a sickening amount of structural sexism working against women running for political office.

  53. 53
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Icedfire30:

    I both believe Pete has more depth as a candidate than many people think as well as believe that there is a sickening amount of structural sexism working against women running for political office.

    Well said. I agree.

  54. 54
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Would love it if someone could post this brilliant thread as to why Trump’s idiotic tweet about dumping water on the fire is a good idea.

    https://twitter.com/CZEdwards/status/1117850427846844416

  55. 55
    tobie says:

    @Miss Bianca: I would add that she’s not been bashful about taking on corporate and monied interests. “Join the fight” is her campaign slogan afterall. Buttigieg on the other hand is reassuring in his rhetoric — my gawd, he worked for McKinsey whose tried and true formula for every company is downsize and outsource — and to the delight of the beltway media he’s chosen just the right people to criticize: Hillary Clinton, coastal elites, 50-, 60- and 70-year-olds which to be honest is thinly veiled code for “the Establishment,” committed secularists, etc. To the extent that I’m a 50-year-old woman who places great value on the separation of church and state and understood in 2016 that “I’m with her” meant “I’m with women,” I have to say I’m appalled at Buttigieg’s rise. dKos has two recommended diaries which showcase the messianic appeal of his candidacy: one says in the title that he will “usher in a new era,” the other that he’ll “save Christianity.” I don’t know if I should laugh or cry. I do know he’s encouraged this. When asked by Chris Wallace to justify his candidacy, he said, “This is what the country needs.” Haunting words.

  56. 56
    Tenar Arha says:

    @germy: @Tenar Arha:

    LOL while I was typing

  57. 57
    germy says:

    So the Sanders campaign clearly negotiated a 6 pm news embargo on his tax returns, timed to dump just before his Fox News forum. The news media went along for the ride. Got give 'em props for sneakiness. 😐— Tom Watson (@tomwatson) April 15, 2019

  58. 58
    Dan B says:

    @Baud: Warren got a lot of MSM coverage over the Native American ancestor controversy. Media is all about the “story”. Data and info don’t attract eyeballs / adverti$ing. Pete is boatloads of stories. He’s the easy peasey headline for the second rate journo.

    Axelrod may be pulling some media strings or favors for Pete. He was in the crowd at the launch and remarked, “Too white, not enough people of color.” or something similar. Obama’s been most impressed with Kamala and Pete so I expect to see some stories about Harris’ appeal to white suburban women, or something. And some stories about Pete’s appeal to white women who voted for Trump once and Obama twice. None if these stories will tell anybody about theur strengths and weaknesses as a chief executive. They’re high school, or junior high, popularity horse race fantasies. Few of the stories will be about hiw exciting it is to have several strong women candidates. That’s built into the corporate white male ownership structure.

    I was struck by Jamie Dimon’s complete lack of any clue about how a single working mom could cope with a $12 per hour budget. There are a lot of white progressive men who don’t know they are in a bubble. And the conservative ones have feudal fantasies.

    We need a robust non profit media and the Fairness Doctrine with extras.

  59. 59
    Betty Cracker says:

    Regarding Weld’s primary challenge: I assume he would have to qualify in some way to get on a debate stage with Trump? Weld is a smart guy and experienced pol. He would lose the primary in a landslide, of course. But it would be great if he could embarrass Twitler along the way.

  60. 60
    Dan B says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Thanks for the chuckle. Niw, where can I get one of those i crossers and t dotters for meself?

  61. 61
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Icedfire30: Yeah, but he’s got charisma, and those old broads are just boring.

  62. 62
    germy says:

    Sanders’ decision to run for president in 2015 ultimately led to an increase in their bottom line – which jumped from $240,622 in 2015 to $1,073,333 a year later.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/15/politics/bernie-sanders-tax-returns-release-2020/index.html
    (emphasis mine)

  63. 63
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Icedfire30: I sit corrected on the sourcing of the quote, thankee.

    And it’s not that I don’t appreciate the point that Buttigieg is a smart guy etc. etc. – he popped up on my radar screen after his DNC run, and I remember being impressed with him then -and if he were planning to run for the House, the Senate, or hell, even state-wide office in Indiana I’d be all, “Go, Pete!”.

    But the simple fact of the matter is that it takes some fucking hubris to decide that you can jump from Mayor of South Bend straight to POTUS, that only a relatively privileged white guy would feel able to do so, and I guess at bottom I just plain resent that all these people I know are throwing bouquets around about him because they’ll never admit it, but they want a WHITE GUY FOR PREZNIT, and honestly, right now I wish all the white guys out there were saying to themselves, “let’s support all these amazing women running”, rather than jumping in the race themselves. It may be wrong, it may be unfair, it may have nothing to do with Buttigieg himself, but damn it, that’s how I feel about it.

    OK, rant off.

  64. 64
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Baud: Not that I wouldn’t vote for Warren but Warren is old and Pete is the future and this whole mess is about a generational change.

  65. 65
    ruemara says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Ageism. Lovely. Plus, Pete’s generational change is very, very white & male with a huge dose of not understanding the “identity politics” that made it legal for him to married and safe to be out.

  66. 66
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Miss Bianca: Come sit by me.

  67. 67
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Let him be the future; let a woman be the present.

  68. 68

    Hey Miss B- been wanting to mention- a couple weeks ago there was a picture of your meetup and I said to myself, “Hmm. The one on the left looks like a musician.” Then you IDed yourself a few minutes later. You got a vibe, or something!

  69. 69
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @MomSense: Of course not!

  70. 70

    @Miss Bianca: Hey Miss B- been wanting to mention- a couple weeks ago there was a picture of your meetup and I said to myself, “Hmm. The one on the left looks like a musician.” Then you IDed yourself a few minutes later. You got a vibe, or something!

  71. 71
    MomSense says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Yup, he looks closest to my gargoyle.

  72. 72
    Dan B says:

    @Miss Bianca: Yes. Our corporate / for profit media only cares about eyeballs. The idea of being part of the community, formerly based in patrician precepts, is considered foolish.

    There are a lot of white make candidates who are now “boring”. Beto was exciting as David taking on the Texas Goliath. Now he’s just a young charisma who can jump on tables without severe bodily harm. There are a lot of others who are not catching on because their strengths are not exciting or controversial. Think of who is strong on these topics: Immigration, climate, continuation of Obama centrism, gun control, etc. There’s a guy for each, and several women just as good.

    Corporate media owners coukd care less about saving the US. A climate scientist was brought to meet some billionaires. They wanted to know how to build the mist secure compounds when the masses began to starve. Sad, Bigliest Sad!

  73. 73
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Charles P. Pierce is eloquent.

  74. 74
    Gelfling 545 says:

    Dieu merci! I pictured it all destroyed and Paris wouldn’t be Paris without it. Sunday is Easter and traditionally a lot of people come to Notre Dame from all over on Easter. It will be less than festive this year.

  75. 75
  76. 76
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tobie: How has Buttigieg criticized committed secularists? I’ve heard him say Democrats shouldn’t cede religious voters to Republicans and note that the teachings of Jesus are more compatible with the progressive agenda than the conservative point of view. But I’ve not heard or read anything from Buttigieg even remotely critical of non-believers or the separation of church and state.

  77. 77
    Brachiator says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Not that I wouldn’t vote for Warren but Warren is old and Pete is the future and this whole mess is about a generational change.

    Old people vote. Old people contribute to candidates and parties. I listened to a speech in which it would be easy for troublemakers to conclude, “Mayor Pete is saying that if you were born before 1980, you are an old fossil who should slink off into a corner and die….. But vote for me first!” This is no way to win people over to your side.

    OTOH,

    But the simple fact of the matter is that it takes some fucking hubris to decide that you can jump from Mayor of South Bend straight to POTUS, that only a relatively privileged white guy would feel able to do so

    I don’t know what to do with stuff like this. Anyone running for president is got to be pretty damned privileged. Is there an unofficial pecking order? Is there anyone who should have preference? Few of the candidates have a deep record of public service, although in the Age of Trump, past experience is an anchor, not an advantage.

  78. 78
    Emma says:

    @Miss Bianca: Seconded. All of it.

  79. 79
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Tenar Arha: No, if I had, I’d have done a post. Doing one now, thanks.

  80. 80
    Betty Cracker says:

    @ruemara: Here’s what Buttigieg said about identity politics a few days ago:

    John Harwood: When Barack Obama ran in 2008 to be the first African American president, he chose not to emphasize that fact because he thought it would be counterproductive. Are you going to approach this race with the same attitude about potentially becoming the first gay president?

    Buttigieg: Look, being gay is part of who I am, and it’s part of my story, and it has shaped me in some important ways. It’s also just part of my story. It’s not all of who I am. And what I hope to do is turn to that story if it helps people understand how I might be able to relate to others with radically different experiences, but certain things in common.

    But I’m not running to be president for any one group. If I thought to myself just in terms of identity lines, it’d be a pretty lonely place, because I’m the only Maltese-American Episcopalian gay veteran that I know. If we get identity right, then it can actually be a source of solidarity with people whose identity is completely different. I think divisive identity politics is exactly what’s by the White House today, and it’s using race to divide us within, for example, the middle and working class. We’ve got to turn the page from that.

    [Emphasis mine.] It sounds to me like he’s saying identity politics can be a positive thing if it helps you build solidarity among groups while also recognizing that Trump is using WHITE identity politics in a negative way to divide us. What am I missing that’s objectionable about that?

  81. 81
    janesays says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Don’t forget Johnson, Lyndon Baines. He too, was primaried by his own party, and didn’t even bother trying to save his presidency.

  82. 82
    MomSense says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Co-Fucking-Signed.

  83. 83
    Mnemosyne says:

    @dmsilev:

    I’m pretty sure that the world’s top art conservation and restoration experts are packing their bags for Paris right now so they can get started as soon as the site is deemed safe. I will let them determine what can and can’t be salvaged or restored. 🤷‍♀️

    I’m peripherally in the archiving and art conservation field, and there are some pretty amazing techniques available these days.

  84. 84
    Sab says:

    @Brachiator: I am old and I feel a bit old. I am about five years younger than Elizabeth Warren and she looks a lot better than I do. She doesn’t look fifty. Aside from good bone structure. She seems to have good genes. I am skeptical of older candidates running for a tough job, but I won’t write off a good candidate just based on age. She seems to be healthy and energetic as a proverbial horse.

    Look at Nancy Pelosi. I would have dropped dead with her schedule in my forties.

  85. 85
    satby says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    What am I missing that’s objectionable about that?

    Because it was said by Buttigieg, of course.
    @Miss Bianca: look, I’ve said multiple times that my ranked choices are: Harris, Warren, then Buttigieg as a VP for either of them. But he’s my current mayor, and a lot of his appeal is that he’s a quiet, calm, nice person; and after the asshole in chief a nice person is very appealing and harkens back to the last President who offered a hopeful view of the future. My neighborhood is 50/50 racially mixed between white and black folks, and most of the friends I have made here are of Mexican descent, and they’re pretty much all in on Buttigieg. They must not have gotten the memo on who they’re supposed to root for.

  86. 86
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Kamala Harris is 54, which I guess makes her too old and used-up to be an effective president, right?

  87. 87
    Mnemosyne says:

    @satby:

    I resent that Mayor Pete is getting massive media attention because he’s a white man. I realize that it’s not actually his fault, but I resent it all the same.

  88. 88
    Dan B says:

    @Miss Bianca: Good rant! I believe there’s plenty of hubris in each candidate but some like Warren seem like they’d rather not run but feel the times are so desperate that they have an obligation to the country. I can’t speculate about Harris, who is my favorite, but I hope that Pete will end up being an addition instead of a distraction. Right now he hits all the MSM bells: Gay, midwestern, young, audacious, christian, veteran. He could be more media- magnetic if he were the first Martian to arrive on earth. At the same time media frenzies don’t guarantee electoral success. He’s too smart, as a political friend stated last night, and he’s too inexperienced. Plus he’s going to struggle with the racist label and with the anti-gay trope that gay men dislike women. So I believe the bloom will be off his story soon. It may advantage Harris and others to avoid being the focus of the early attacks on Dems and progressives. Pe

  89. 89
    satby says:

    @Mnemosyne: and how many media outlets have you contacted about that?
    Every single person complaining about that, have you contacted any media or have you just bitched about it here?
    Hit them up on Twitter, hit them on their FB page, write an email about their shitty coverage. I do it so much I’ve been blocked by a couple of “journalists” , including my former friend. But resenting someone for something he doesn’t control is a waste of energy.
    Edited to add: I continue to be convinced that he gets the media attention because he’s openly gay but doesn’t fit into the preconceived notions of what gay men are like. It’s uncharted territory for a media who thinks gay guys are all either Will or Jack.

  90. 90
    Miss Bianca says:

    @John Revolta: And a Celtic muso, too, at that! Can you pick ’em, or what?!

  91. 91
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @janesays: Good catch. Been a busy day.

  92. 92
    Miss Bianca says:

    @satby: If you look closely at what I actually said, I said that what I resented was the fact that a lot of the “progressives” I know are in the bag for WHITE MALE PRESIDENT. Some of them have the grace or gall or what have you to cop to it: others just slide around the “likability” or “electability” themes that enable them to say, without saying it, that they think that that means WHITE MALE is the key to getting elected. So really, I don’t give a flying fuck at the moon whether Buttigieg is a nice guy or a great mayor or the second coming of Jesus. It’s not about *him*. I don’t resent *him*: I resent the fact that everyone who doesn’t have any relevant experience of working with him is saying, “oh, yay, WHITE MAN for President!”

    I understand he’s your mayor and you like him. That’s great. Go ahead and keep liking him and keep making a case for him. I just don’t know how to make it any clearer that I’m sick of the hype surrounding WHITE MEN. And for the record, I have contacted media outlets about it. Hasn’t made a damn bit of difference yet.

  93. 93

    @Miss Bianca: Well, I oughta, by now……….. :^)

  94. 94
    satby says:

    @Miss Bianca: the right wing worked the refs for about 30 years before the media became so afraid of them screaming “liberal bias”. There’s more of us, if we all pushed back constantly, it shouldn’t take nearly as long.
    And my edited added comment details why I think it’s not his white maleness getting the attention as much as he doesn’t fit the “gay” stereotype. I also think he’s pretty wonky, and the media will be off after another chew toy soon enough.

  95. 95
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    Looks the thread is dead, but I don’t want to hijack the Bernie or Bixby threads, so I’ll drop this here for the time being.

    I’ve been wondering when someone would set up a fund for rebuilding of Notre Dame. Turns out the “Friends of Notre-Dame de Paris” already exists, as they were supporting the renovation. Here’s a news article with some donation info.
    https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/04/15/donate-rebuild-notre-dame-cathedral-paris/

    there’s a link there which takes you to the website on which this (French) donation page appears:
    http://www.notredamedeparis.fr.....-francais/

    The website is for a French foundation with donations in Euro. I’m not sure how you donate $$ to them, although the SF news article says there’s a (US) 501c3 associated. In the past I’ve had problems sending money from a US bank to a European recipient.

    I do see that the donation form has “Etats-Unis” (US) as a pulldown option for donor’s country.

  96. 96
    Amir Khalid says:

    @lamh36:
    I expect Bill Weld to do as well as he did in 2016.

  97. 97
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I expect Bill Weld to do as well as he did in 2016.

    As I said in an earlier comment, I think Trump will eventually swat Weld like a fly — but I hope Weld can at least be as annoying as a gadfly before Trump pulls out the big fly swatter. Or the EPA-approved ærosol can of Black Flag.

  98. 98
    Dan B says:

    @Mnemosyne: There are a lot of white male candidates not getting any attention in the media. Swallwell, Hickenlooper, Inslee, Beto, etc. Gay Christian Midwesterner is a unicorn for corporate media. There are also a number of minority straight men getting overlooked. Unicorns are the headliners if the week, and when the crazed christianists (Randall Terry, Operation Rescue) start showing up at his campaign stops, there may be more headlines. Being LGBT is not a favored group in the US. There’s work to do.

  99. 99
    Sean says:

    @different-church-lady: yes but that and the masonry art are a big part of it. Many of the most important smaller relics and artworks made it out and other objets were already removed for renovation. Some of the stained glass will likely make it through as well and the main south tower bell. This could have been far worse. Now they will perform a full restoration – what was underway was still underfunded

Comments are closed.