@Yair_Rosenberg apparently, antivaccine activists are flaunting a yellow star and comparing themselves to holocaust victims at this point. pic.twitter.com/HQNzZGJfXl
— (((Dorit Reiss))) (@doritmi) March 29, 2019
When we talk about the anti-vaccine movement, we often discuss the clinical impact—the deadly danger that vaccine-preventable diseases pose to the unvaccinated or the immunocompromised. But the vaccine hesitancy also has a large shared financial cost https://t.co/iXU8836meq 1/
— WIRED (@WIRED) March 29, 2019
From the reliably excellent Maryn McKenna, at Wired:
… Every grave illness and death is an individual tragedy, but the cost of vaccine hesitancy also enforces a shared public toll.
Consider the ongoing measles outbreak in Washington State, which is centered in Clark County, on the Oregon border. In January, when it had racked up 26 cases, the state governor declared a public health emergency. Since then, the case count has almost tripled, to 74.
To figure out who might have been put at risk, the state health department has interviewed 4,652 people and closely monitored 812 of them. It has reassigned staff from across its divisions, borrowed public health workers from other states, sent people who would normally be at desks out into the field, performed hundreds of lab tests that would not normally be necessary. So far, it has spent $1.6 million…
The funding to support that work isn’t being conjured out of the air. It’s coming from the budgets of public agencies, which have already been facing years of cuts and have no secret stashes of discretionary money to spend.
“There are substantial public health responses that go into mitigating an outbreak, and we should pursue those, because they prevent larger outbreaks or broader social disruption,” says Saad Omer, a physician and epidemiologist at Emory University and the senior author of a recent paper on the “true cost” of measles outbreaks. “But it does result in a lot of costs that can be pretty substantial. And we don’t measure the further indirect costs to the community.”
In Washington State, those indirect costs include the other work that doesn’t get done while the outbreak proceeds. The state health department was forced to appropriate a portion of its poison control center’s work hours to handle the calls made by people worried they had been exposed to measles. In Clark County, the local health department reassigned to measles the home-visit nurses who take care of risky pregnancies, and also the investigators who track down victims of sexually transmitted diseases and foodborne illnesses…
Those costs are being paid by state governments, and by federal agencies such as the CDC that give states grants and loan them personnel. State and federal budgets are public money—which means those necessary bills for unnecessary outbreaks are being paid by all of us. The toll of illness may be confined to individuals, but the cost of responding to outbreaks related to vaccine refusal is a bill that we are all being compelled to pay.
And you know the privileged parents now telling each other, Really, it’s only measles, we all got them back in the day and *I* never had any problems will sue everyone from the suspected source to their local government to the FDA if their little darling has to so much as miss a school recital or family vacation because of a quarantine, too. Mah RIGHTS!!!
Sometimes I find myself wishing that this kind of stupidity physically hurt its possessors, and not just their victims, because that seems to be the only way to reach some people.
MagdaInBlack
These people need a guided tour of the older cemetaries so they can count the number of childrens gravestones.
Ruckus
They never saw any of the people that had problems with all those diseases when they got them because most of the problems caused people to die or much time lost from their daily lives. They also forgot that they had to stay home and endure a lot of crap to avoid further issues or pain or inflicting the disease upon others. They are fucking morons. I’m old enough to have gotten most all of the then standard diseases that no one should have to suffer from because of vaccinations, other than polio, and I knew people that had that.
Fucking selfish morons. So glad they are better than the rest of us. Better just like Trump is better. Not at all better, in fact far, far worse, and they are fucking morons just like him, no matter what their college degrees say.
Ruckus
@MagdaInBlack:
They need a guided tour of the older cemeteries with an open grave with their kids name on it so they might just possibly get the fucking idea.
Kelly
Chicken Pox as a child in the days before the vaccine led to shingles at 55 for my wife. Recurrence is rare but she has had them every few months for several years now.
Vaccine much better than “natural” resistance from a stylish pox party.
dmsilev
It bears repeating, over and over again, that Andrew Wakefield’s ‘vaccines cause autism’ study wasn’t just wrong, it was an out-and-out fake and he did it because he was trying to market a competing vaccine.
cain
Just increase the state taxes and blame the anti-vaxxers. Because they are creating public health issues more money needs to be spent to help ohters who don’t have money for medication.
If there is way to set the anti-vaxxer against the pro-life movement that will be a win.
cain
@dmsilev:
Shouldn’t he come out and say it is fake because now he can’t sell his vaccine either?
karensky
When I was in the 3rd grade I had measles and the disease almost killed me. This was before their was a a vaccine for measles. I was delirious for a week with high fevers and the dr came to my house every day for 2 weeks. I missed a month of school. My mom and dad gave up their bedroom for most of that time. One slept in my room with my brother and the other on the couch. I only remember bits of the experience and what I remember was bad. Fuck these entitled creeps and their appropriation of the Holocaust victims.
david
Oh, look, Mayor Pete speaks!
—–
The Washington Post Magazine @wpmagazine
“Donald Trump got elected because, in his twisted way, he pointed out the huge troubles in our economy and our democracy,” Buttigieg says. “At least he didn’t go around saying that America was already great, like Hillary did.” — @PeteButtigieg
—–
Sloane Ranger
I belong to the last generation before the vaccines became available and I can say with absolute certainty that quarantine was a standard response to outbreaks. If you were infected you stayed away from school and, if the outbreak was big enough the school was closed.
Even in those days Doctors did NOT encourage parents to deliberately expose their children to the disease.
Seconding what others have said about the fact that you survived doesn’t mean anything. People survived the Black Death. It still decimated Europe.
Sloane Ranger
@karensky: Same here. My parents moved my bed downstairs into the living room to be closer to my mother during the day and they took it in turns to sleep on the settee at night.
donnah
My son was diagnosed with leukemia when he was three. He went through extensive chemotherapy for three years, then went though a less intense protocol. When his counts were low, we kept him home. But when his counts were high enough, we could take him out for yogurt or pizza, which after seclusion was a real treat for a little boy and for us as well. This was twenty-five years ago, and there was not an anti-vax movement.
Had there been this insane group of idiots, we could never have taken him outside. Any number of those diseases would have killed him in his compromised condition. Fuck these selfish, ignorant, cruel monsters! If they’re the ones refusing to vaccinate their children, then they’re the ones who stay home, locked away with their diseases.
He’s thirty-two now, btw, and he’s great. Not a day goes by that I don’t thank our lucky stars for that.
Brickley Paiste
@david:
Wait up now. Is he casting aspersions in the direction of St. Hillary?
We can’t have that. I suspect the shine is about to come off of Mr. Boot edge edge for most of the BJ commentariat.
She was the perfect candidate who ran a truly flawless campaign and her loss is really more a reflection on the voters than her.
Cacti
@david:
Praising fascists and dragging Democrats. Just what I’m looking for in a Dem nominee.
I thought Bernie already had that angle covered.
Mike in NC
Prevention works. I neglected to have a colonoscopy until age 61 (they advise age 50 or even 45) and they removed 15 polyps. Had another one this week and they only found and removed two.
JPL
@donnah: As a new grandmother, I hate the assholes.
JPL
@Cacti: Only he has been on Fox news, lie. Only he understands what motivates the trump voter because he lives in Indiana, another lie. Right now I view these as missteps, but unless he turns it around quickly, he’s off my list.
Jager
My daughter was an anti-vaxxer until my grandson was invited to a top flight science camp 6 years ago. The camp only allowed kid’s with the proper vaccinations to attend. She had him at the doctor’s office 10 minutes after she got the letter from the camp.
Cacti
Smallpox is the deadliest disease in human history in terms of body count.
My standing question for the anti-vaxxers, why did smallpox go away? Did it take a vacation?
scav
Ah well, bitter entitled men need all the airwaves and spotlights. First in line forever! as theirs is the only authenticity, needs, desires and anxiety that matters. They’re Grrrrrreat!
Yeah, there’s a message that will distinguish him from the pack.
Brickley Paiste
I mean who in the world doesn’t think that America was great in 2016?
Every true democrat agrees on that, surely?
I really can’t think of a single teeny tiny flaw that existed on these proud shores.
(Maybe the designated hitter rule)
Cacti
@Brickley Paiste:
And what a surprise.
Dickley Face lurves any Dem candidate willing to hate on Dems and plug Repukes.
Cacti
@JPL:
If Mayor Butt-egg wants to run as the white man whisperer, he can fuck right off.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
These fucking people are the worst. We’re lucky. Our children don’t have anything that would have kept them from getting all their shots, but a lot of people are less lucky. I think we’re just going to have to get laws through that everybody has to get their children their shots unless there’s some medical reason the children can’t have them. Shit. This is 2019, not 1619. I can’t believe we even have to deal with this shit.
Uncle Omar
@david: Maybe he forgot the sarcasm font. As for the anti-vaxx assholes, if they had ever seen someone in an iron lung maybe they would be such douches.
ProfDamatu
Mulling this over, I just realized – most parents of young kids these days would be my age or (mostly) younger…and I’m just young enough not to have received the smallpox vaccine (born 1975). So the ignorance goes even deeper; these young parents were almost certainly all vaccinated themselves, and definitely grew up in a world where the only remaining childhood disease was chicken pox (and the ones in their mid 30s and younger would even have had *that* vaccine).
I wonder if the kids growing up now, and the ones the age of my students, will swing back the other way, toward vaccines, because they’re hearing at impressionable ages about these outbreaks. I certainly hope so!
schrodingers_cat
@Cacti: Pete B loved BS before it was cool. He wrote an essay in 2000 about it.
Zapman
My parents already had 4 children when the polio vaccine was made available. They went on to have 6 more. There was never a vaccine developed that my mom didn’t make all of us take. Imagine what one case of polio could have done. Add 9 more. Then weep for them all. All my life I have never had measles, smallpox, whooping cough (did you know there is no treatment, only a vaccine? I didn’t until recently), and neither have any of my siblings. Are we just lucky?
TaMara (HFG)
If you’re under, what 50? – you had vaccines for measles, mumps and smallpox. So you did NOT have the measles and “it was fine”. Though these people are clearly delusional….and probably buy vaginal jade products from Gweneth Paltrow – but I doubt it was their vaccines that did it.
Yutsano
@cain: Washington has no income tax. Raising the sales tax will hit the poorest the hardest, and those rates are already regressive. Increasing property taxes and B&O taxes isn’t a viable option. Unfortunately the state has no real good way of raising revenue since we also can’t issue bonds because of a stupid balanced budget clause in the state constitution. So there’s no real good options here.
Cacti
In the 1970s through the early 1980s, vaccination had brought down pertussis infections to only 1,000 to 3,000 cases per year in the US. Since 2003, there haven’t been fewer than 10,000 per year, with a peak of 48,000 cases in 2012.
Pertussis kills infants and young children.
Anti-vaxxers are worse than just stupid. They’re dangerous.
JR
@Cacti: not true, probably tuberculosis. http://theconversation.com/four-of-the-most-lethal-infectious-diseases-of-our-time-and-how-were-overcoming-them-78101
debbie
@karensky:
When I was a kid, I caught both kinds of measles (I never hear about there being more than one kind anymore). Not long after that, my tonsils were so bad my ears were bleeding and I had to be admitted to a grown people hospital for emergency surgery. I’ve got autoimmune issues up the whazoo. Why parents wouldn’t vaccinate their kids is beyond me.
ETA: That yellow-star shit needs to stop NOW.
Cacti
@Brickley Paiste:
Dickley, I think Democrats are stupid and I hate them. Will you vote for me now to be the Dem nominee?
Fair Economist
@dmsilev:
Indeed, I agree. Cannot be said often enough.
Cacti
@JR:
I stand corrected.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Well that means it entered the full bullshit stag ever antivaccers are doing it to just be jackasses. Not to mention, refusing vaccinations for classes of people is basically eugenics.
Mike G
@Brickley Paiste:
That’s not a very convincing made-up name. Your troll factory needs to work on their English.
B.B.A.
Eh, it’s a free country.
Fair Economist
I got vaccinated before I got measles, but my best friend from childhood got it and nearly got brain damage because his temp went over 104 (brain damage can start at 105). His parents put him in a cool bath – but what if his temp had gone above 105 at 3 in the morning?
eclare
@Kelly: I never had chicken pox as a child, and when the vaccine came out in the mid-90’s, I got it pronto. I also got a booster about ten years ago. I will never understand these people. And I don’t want to. But I do feel sorry for their kids.
MattF
There’s a tyranny by tiny percentages. If a tiny percentage of children aren’t vaccinated, the cost becomes enormous. And… I’ll pass on any commentary about the yellow star stuff– I don’t want to stroke out, at least not today..
Emerald
@Brickley Paiste: Well, the voters liked her 2.1% better than they liked Twitler, which is a clear and decisive percentage.
Tell it to the Electoral College.
And yeah, this does mess up my Boot-edge-edge shine a bit. Still support Harris but think he’s impessive.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Brickley Paiste: Brickley, there are legitimate critics of Hillary, but your agenda is so painfully visible you an’t the one to do it. How is the weather in St Petersburg?
MagdaInBlack
@debbie:
They’ve never seen any of these diseases up close and personal. Most of us have.
ETA my maternal grandmother died of TB, in 1921, when my mother was 6. My father had a good friend who had survived polio: his legs were useless.
I had measles, mumps and chicken pox. I would not wish these things on anyone.
Fair Economist
@JR: Historically smallpox killed the most but there has been a vaccine for it for over 200 years and variolation (deliberate infection of the skin, which usually produces a much milder infection) was available over a century before that.
MattF
Oh, and Alex Jones on his Sandy Hook conspiracy views (via Slate):
Does an ‘almost’ psychosis excuse Jones from responsibility? Ya think?
Fair Economist
@eclare:
Chickenpox is nasty; shingles is often worse; and now there’s a candidate linkage between herpesvirus and Alzheimer’s. Why would anybody want a virus active in their central nervous system their entire life?
rikyrah
@karensky:
My sister and I have almost 20 years between us in age. She is of the generation right before they found a vaccine for measles. Like you, when she got them at 5 or 6, it almost killed her. Had lifelong health problems that my mother believed until the day she died, originated with that bout of the measles.
My sister will literally curse you out if she finds out that you’re anti-vax.
JR
@Fair Economist: tuberculosis is basically endemic to the entire world and has been for probably all of human history. There was absolutely no treatment for it until 1950 or so, when Albert Schatz discovered streptomycin.
Beyond the last 200 years we are really just speculating for most of the world, so that’s the best we can work with.
Citizen Alan
@Brickley Paiste:
DIAF
SRW1
And in totally unrelated conservative family man news: Stephen Moore’s Fed ambition just got struck below the water line by a torpedo.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/30/trump-stephen-moore-federal-reserve-board
rikyrah
@MattF:
Nope. Take all his money, Sandy Hook victims.
TAKE.ALL.HIS.MONEY.
Sister Golden Bear
@david: OK, Mayor Pete, until you’ve run for federal or even state office, maybe it’s time to dial back the hubris and the mansplaining back to zero.
debbie
@SRW1:
Well, now we know why Trump thinks so highly of him!
rikyrah
@SRW1:
They already had him with $75k being owed to the IRS.
now, this?
Uh huh
Uh huh
zhena gogolia
I just find it rather strange that today there are all these Mayor Pete attacks. Like maybe somebody is trying to knock off the Democratic candidates one by one. Wonder whose turn it will be tomorrow.
West of the Rockies
Who ARE these people? Do they lean so far left that they’re right? Are they Stein and Sanders purity ponies?
I suspect they regard themselves as being extra-special, aware of information that the rest of us “sheeple” can’t grasp.
CTers are a weird lot. They tend to feel somehow unappreciated and lacking in power, and so migrate towards conspiracies to demonstrate how very-truly-special they really are.
YMMV.
eclare
@Fair Economist: I’ve heard very bad stories about shingles, including from one of my relatives who got it in a very unfortunate region. Of course this happened while every Walgreens in town had a sign saying “We have the singles vaccine!”
Citizen Alan
@Brickley Paiste:
Bored now.
rikyrah
NEW: In a major ruling late Friday, a federal judge in Alaska ruled that Trump’s decision to revoke oil and gas leasing withdrawals in 128M acres in the Arctic and Atlantic Oceans was illegal. She restored the protections Obama issued in both places. https://t.co/GogGTb6ADt
— Juliet Eilperin (@eilperin) March 30, 2019
debbie
@rikyrah:
This American Life spent half a show on Alex Jones. His stated origination story is that he has become what he has because some jock beat the crap out of him in high school.
rikyrah
Why do some white Dems do this thing where they try not to offend people who voted for Trump but in turn offend every person of color? It’s a big problem.
Trump is a racist and that wasn’t a deal breaker for the people that voted for him. That’s just a fact.
— Zerlina Maxwell (@ZerlinaMaxwell) March 30, 2019
Suzanne
This is how I feel about blue-collar dipshits who voted for Trump, and gun-humping toxic Libertarian incels (redundant), etc etc etc.
No, I am not a very nice person.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
This was my point this morning, and it was knocked down in a flash.
Russia hasn’t disappeared.
West of the Rockies
@Brickley Paiste:
So what candidate DO you look upon favorably? Do you believe Trump to be a Russian prop?
Ruckus
@karensky:
A lot of the people not getting their kids vaccinated now were kids after the vaccinations and got them. They don’t remember what you went through or what I went through, I got encephalitis from the measles and had headaches and saw docs on a regular basis for 5 yrs afterwards, with all kinds of testing and medications. I knew what an EEG before I was 8 yrs old. Because I’d taken lots of tests.
zhena gogolia
@debbie:
Bingo. Russia hasn’t disappeared. Neither have their bots. According to Julia Davis, they’re rejoicing in Moscow over the Barr letter, and they’re undoubtedly going to ramp up their psyops since it worked so well last time, and they’ve gotten away with it.
ETA: I just wish we weren’t still so gullible, after 2016.
Emerald
@zhena gogolia: Oh the attacks on Mayor Pete started about a week ago. Somebody’s scared.
zhena gogolia
@Emerald:
And the majority of people here are taking the bait.
I’m not ruling any candidate out until I see them perform in the debates and learn more about what they’re proposing. Seemingly coordinated blitzes of negative info, especially with a racial tinge, smell of the Kremlin to me.
debit
@zhena gogolia: I don’t doubt that something like what you suspect is actually happening. However, it’s not like they had to go back 17 years and find some obscure comment made in an AOL chatroom. He made those comments less than 2 months ago.
Again, if the 2020 election boils down to Trump or a cinder block, I’ll have cinder block bumper stickers and yard signs. But we have primaries for a reason. If he can overcome this, great, but right now nothing I have seen from anyone is swaying me from initial preference for Kamala Harris.
Brickley Paiste
@West of the Rockies:
I look on Warren and Abrams most favorably and think they have solid pedigrees, but Harris is a close 3rd and I think she will be a stronger candidate so she’s who I am supporting.
I don’t know if I would describe Trump as a Russian prop, but I do think he and his campaign sought Russian assistance and that is just one of a dozen crimes for which he could be tried.
trollhattan
@SRW1:
Putting Moore on the Fed would be like replacing your dentist with a boxer. Does the Senate confirm him, or how does the process work?
Frankly, how he mistreated his ex-wife will raise his stock among Republicans.
West of the Rockies
@zhena gogolia:
I’ve noticed this, too.
Klobuchar and her mistreatment of staff…
Pete ventures an unpopular opinion…
Harris as prosecutor was eee-vil!
Cory is gayish…
Biden is a lech…
Beto is a privileged twerp…
Of course, some of this may be true(ish). But does it damage progressive goals?
If Abrahms declares, what will we hear about her?
debit
and of course I wind up in moderation. would love to know what the trigger word was.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
I’m having a “Come sit by me” moment. :-)
MisterForkbeard
@Brickley Paiste: Oh look, the asshole is assholing again.
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: BP isn’t a plant, but he’s painfully trollish.
Spanky
@debbie: It was pointed out in the earlier thread that Mayor Pete really did say stupid shit about Hillary, and it’s just as likely that one of the other Dem candidates’ staff dredged that WaPo article up, but we can take it to the bank that the Russians will be trying again. They tried in 2018, but by and large got shut out. Both sides learn from experience, and there will be new techniques rolled out for 2020. And no point burning a resource if the Dems will do the work for you.
trollhattan
@Emerald:
My problem with so many candidates is conflation–Peteo. They’ve morphed into one young dude.
James E Powell
@rikyrah:
Exactly. And why do people continue to argue that if the Dems just offer the right package of economic policies, white voters who have been solid Republicans since 1980 will switch sides. And if we stop calling them racists, they won’t be racist any more.
West of the Rockies
@Brickley Paiste:
I’m very high on Harris. I like Warren but am not sure she’s electable (hooray// for misogyny and too many American voters). Don’t know enough about Abrahms yet.
Suzanne
@trollhattan: I have a toxic Libertarian coworker and he is so annoying that I am considering a job change.
trollhattan
@Spanky:
I dunno the accuracy of the latest blizzard of talking points, but will just note that ultimately, Gore lost in part because of distancing himself too much from Bill Clinton. Clinton left office with high poll numbers and Gore kept him off the stump.
I do not want Dem candidates who raise their own stock by attacking other Democrats. Especially do not attack Hillary, because she fucking well deserves better.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
Work is hard enough. Having to tolerate morons and sociopaths (you did say Libertarian) in order to even conduct your job is more of a hill to climb than anybody deserves. Except other morons and sociopaths, of course. For them there’s Walmart.
Brickley Paiste
@West of the Rockies:
Yeah, I’m really surprised that more voters have not coalesced already around Harris – she seems like the total package to me. Checks the right demographic boxes, has enough of a prosecution background that she will appeal to law and order moderates, has solid views on all the big issues for me and, most importantly, she’s a very skilled politician.
I don’t know much about Abrams either, but I think she is very smart but may be a bit more of a consensus builder than knife-fighter and we need someone with blade skills ins 2020.
zhena gogolia
@Brickley Paiste:
Abrams strikes me as very tough. Did you see her with M. McCain?
B.B.A.
@Brickley Paiste: I feel like Harris stands to pick up a lot of supporters from the lower-ranked candidates as they drop out. Biden and Sanders are already close to their ceilings.
West of the Rockies
I know Abrahms is intelligent and well-educated. She seems to have emotional and social intelligence. She appears genuine, optimistic (without being a sap), and is a very good speaker.
I don’t know her policies. Does she have the depth and breadth of experience that Harris or Warren?
Biden has the experience, but is a flawed candidate in the eyes of far too many.
Bernie can F off and then keep on F-ing off.
Hob
@cain: Even though Wakefield’s attempt to get into the vaccine business himself did not pan out, and he’s basically finished in the real scientific community, ever since then he’s had a lucrative career in pitching the same bullshit to credulous souls worldwide—both in person at various pseudoscience events, and via the “documentary” film he made a few years ago. So no, he will never admit that his study was bullshit. It would be like Trump admitting that he’s not good at business.
MisterForkbeard
@Brickley Paiste: I agree. Thank you.
@West of the Rockies: I like Harris and she’s my first choice. I’m worried about the combination if misogyny and Bros determined to take her down, but I think she’d do excellently in the general and in office.
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
Brain damage can start at 105. I’ve been hospitalized with a fever of 105 and I have no brain damage. No sir, no brain damage here. Purfactly nrmural I tells yoou.
Damage can easily occur above 104/105 though and the risk goes up exponentially as the fever gets even higher and if it lasts any length of time. I think I was lucky. Didn’t think so at the time.
Suzanne
@trollhattan: It pisses him off to no end that I am higher up on the corporate hierarchy than he is. I always want to point out that having the ability to successfully communicate with clients is an important part of this job, and not ancillary, as he seems to think.
But then I remember that talking to him sucks. So I don’t.
Brachiator
@West of the Rockies:
Republicans and some Democrats are trying to derail Biden, especially because he has been called a front runner by some pundits.
Some Democrats seem to want to punish Biden for Anita Hill.
I’ve previously said that I think Biden is too old. And I really don’t like Sanders.
However, I am officially neutral with respect to ALL Democratic Party candidates (including Sanders).
The GOP knows that Trump is flawed, so they know that they must do everything they can, however dirty, to undermine every Democrat.
As far as I am concerned, every Democrat is and always will be better than Trump. I will discount every smear unless someone uncovers clear criminal conduct.
GregB
America 2019: We are Devo.
West of the Rockies
@Brachiator:
Well said.
zhena gogolia
@Brachiator:
I agree with you about all Democrats. Not Bernie.
Ruckus
@Fair Economist:
Two words. Fucking. Morons. The reason they are fucking morons is that they think they are special and none of this crap applies to them. Every one dies. A lot of people used to not make it out of single digits, they died from these diseases or from malnutrition or birth defects. I had a cousin who only made 6 months. By when he was born that was less likely but certainly not unheard of. His mother and grandfather both died in their mid 40s to congenital heart failure, which we now can almost always treat. My sister died from breast cancer because she didn’t have health insurance. She was able to get treated but it was too late. Mom had breast cancer 40 yrs earlier and lived because she did have health insurance and got treated. I’ve had cancer and was able to be treated because I have healthcare – the VA.
StringOnAStick
I had the measles and mumps at the same time and missed half a year of kindergarten. I remember none of it except maybe the last few days when I wasn’t delirious. I’m also 5″ shorter than my 3 sisters and I suspect That’s why.
We had a friend with a brother that was brain damaged by a high childhood fever; the parents were too cheap to take him for treatment so he’ll spend the rest of his life in group homes now that there are no surviving parents or adults that are willing to care for him because he’s so difficult and potentially violent. Our friend helped but he has since passed away too young from a cancer that could have be cured if he’s gone to a doctor when he first had symptoms.
sukabi
@Sloane Ranger: I wonder if the majority of the anti-vaxers were vaccinated as children. I’m guessing they were. They grew up not knowing or being affected by those viruses so they have no personal knowledge…except they didn’t get them.
joel hanes
@david:
Well, that’s the end of my admiration for the man.
West of the Rockies
@joel hanes:
Joel, if I may, if one negative comment or perspective causes a complete cessation of admiration, you won’t end up supporting anybody. Sooner or later, everybody has accumulated some less-than-stellar moments, no?
Mnemosyne
@MisterForkbeard:
BP (formerly known as ARBG) is 100 percent a plant, but not a Russian one. He’s a Republican hired gun who works as a troll on liberal websites.
Uncle Cosmo
@cain: Society should make it financially painful to refuse to vaccinate yourself or your children. Require “refuseniks” to post an “outbreak bond” to cover some significant fraction of the incremental cost to public health agencies if they/their child contracts the disease in an outbreak, ratcheting up if any other cases can be traced to them. (I wonder if insurance companies would be interested in posting such bonds in exchange for a hefty fee. Probably, if they could get a fairly accurate judgement of risk factors.)
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Good for your sister.
The thing is, money is at the root of a lot of this crap. If you have money you can afford good healthcare. If you only have enough money to eat crappy you don’t give that up for healthcare because you’ll still be dead. And money insulates one from a lot of nasty reality that some see up close and personal every day and those with not all that much more don’t have to be bothered about at all. And a lot of people are just above or below the line that separates those two states of living in a modern world. Looking around I see the old saw about a rising tide raises all boats may be right but we aren’t boats, we are humans. Some of us are leaky old relics and some are unfinished dinghies but we don’t float well, we need help to do that for very long if at all. And that help is what we owe each other, for those that come behind us and for those who did the same for us when we were behind them and for those who have no one behind them. All for one is followed by one for all for a reason.
West of the Rockies
@Mnemosyne:
I absolutely admire you, Mnemosyne, but is that your opinion or do you have some evidence? If true, I will regard BP as more than just sometimes prickish.
Uncle Cosmo
@Cacti: How about polio? Anyone here besides me remember how the threat of it petrified parents – & how they wept tears of joy when the Salk & then Sabin vaccines were proven safe & effective?
I have a friend my age near Santa Fe who contracted polio as an infant before those vaccines existed. He managed reasonably well through most of his life but is now in the grip of post-polio muscular atrophy & can only live any semblance of a normal life with the aid of a motorized chair. You think he might have some choice words for those antivaxxers?
Ruckus
@SRW1:
The world turns slowly and the gears grind sometimes but they do throw out useless fucks every once in a while. What do you think the chances are that this asshole gets appointed to the Fed anyway? I mean none of the things in that article are about his job, only his character and the way he makes decisions. And that is in accordance with republican family values so……
Mnemosyne
@West of the Rockies:
Of which part, that he’s the troll formerly known as ARBG, or that he’s a Republican plant?
He admitted to the first part months ago. The second part is my deduction based on the specific things that make him suddenly reappear after several months of absence. He’s specifically here to downplay gun violence and mass shootings, but he sticks around to foment arguments about other stuff as well.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
If his views aren’t popular or he proves to be unlikeable for whatever reason, then he won’t get the votes he needs. It’s as simple as that. Meanwhile, Trump et al. have done far, far worse. Let them be the ones to attack, not us.
West of the Rockies
@Uncle Cosmo:
My uncle is in his early 90s. He contracted polio as a boy. I’m told he’s been in a wheelchair for about 20 years now.
Barbara
@Jager: So I am glad for your daughter and especially your grandson that he is now vaccinated, but that is what angers me most about people like your daughter. The only interest that motivates them is self-interest. Forget about infants, the elderly, Immunocompromised people or anyone else. And of course, the only reason why the risk is even marginally acceptable is because most people are still willing to expose their kids to the tiny risk of vaccine for the common good.
debbie
@debit:
Bet it was “AOL.” Satan!
debbie
@Spanky:
But you know what? If a person doesn’t like anyone badmouthing Hillary, they shouldn’t like anyone else being badmouthed. It’s as simple as that.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
One of the boss quips I’ve had to use on occasion is “One of the things you’re paid for, is to be in relationships.”
Whether co-worker, client, regulator, funder, contractor…should not matter.
It may not work directly but when performance evaluation time comes around or worse, when invoking progressive discipline…. Some organizations are able to confront and resolve employee behavior and others seem incapable. If your shop is one of the latter, then create an exit and don’t look back. Your health can literally depend on it.
West of the Rockies
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve certainly noticed that he’s often contrary, condescending and dickish. But not always. A certain stone here at BJ is also often an asshole, but I don’t think he’s seen as a troll. I really don’t get why people just want to hurl insults and piss on everybody.
Dan B
@david: Why does Buttigieg keep pointing at Hillary? He’s usually excellent at pointing out that Dems don’t sway a big segment of the public by demonizing people. If he stood up for some slogan like ‘Make America Great for Everyone’ he gets his point across that America’s systems need a tune up and some major overhauls. He’s good at outlining the contours, principles, and advantages of working together on making America better. Why does he need to mention any Dem, or even most Repubs except for contrast?
Too young prolly… Maybe we could say that he opened his mouth and a Biden fell out. (Now imma be in trouble.)
debbie
@West of the Rockies:
We’re growing on him. ;)
MoxieM
@Fair Economist: Seriously. I (and my siblings) all had chicken pox together. We were herded into one bedroom, and our mom would come in and dab us with Calamine lotion from time to time. I vividly remember standing in line for my sugar cube with the polio vaccine–it was a really big deal! I hope I don’t get shingles, I really don’t. My dad got them (way pre-vaccine) and he said it was the worst thing he ever had. He had lived through a lot, including Scarlet Fever that cost him his hearing in his right ear, an older sister who died of (?) childhood disease, and WWII, as well as the depression.
Needless to say I had my kid vaccinated against everything I could, including the HPV shots. Alas, I wish I could have vaccinated her against having to mess with morons, but then I wish that for all of us!
B.B.A.
@West of the Rockies: My position is that people of color and white women get more slack. For white men it’s one strike, you’re out. You may call it unfair, I call it affirmative action.
Mayor Pete was not on my radar and he still isn’t.
Ruckus
@eclare:
My turn in the shingles bin was fun. FUN I say!
The right side of my face and neck felt like a red hot poker was being constantly applied. Forcefully. Looking in the mirror made it worse. I’ve been hit by a truck going according to the driver 35mph, and not while in another vehicle, and it didn’t hurt near as much. I have regular migraines and the worst one ever, and yes I still remember every minute of that 15 yrs later, was enough for me to tell docs that their pain scale of 1-10 doesn’t go high enough, (step 12 is where you beg anyone to just shoot you) and shingles is worse. Simple meds from the doc cleared it right up. But I DO. NOT. WANT. THAT. AGAIN.
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
White people who defend Trump voters and figuratively piss on POC are, as you well know racists themselves. They just don’t want to be labeled racists, because that makes them have to take account of their prejudices, to actually think about what they say and mean. They want people to think kindly of them, and remain racists. They think they can have it both ways. They are dishonest with everyone else and themselves. They know they are wrong, but are unwilling to examine their beliefs and change. They are curtain racists.
eclare
@Ruckus: Wow, why anyone thinks it’s a good thing for their kid to get chicken pox just infuriates me. That description alone is painful to read, much less experience.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
That doesn’t make you not a nice person. Those people are not nice. You disliking not nice people is not wrong. Maybe if you wanted to hang them up by their fingernails with music wire, or take them out to the dumpster and shoot them, or hang them from a cross with nails through their wrists and ankles, that would make you not a nice person.
West of the Rockies
@B.B.A.:
But doesn’t “one strike” only demand perfection?
I’m in on Harris. I know some people don’t like her because of her prosecutorial background. Hell, some may not like her because she married a Caucasian. I’m sure we’ll here about more of her “flaws” (real or otherwise).
Sooner or later, something will come out about everyone. I admire Joy Reid, but she said some horse shit stuff about the LGBTQ community. She’s acknowledged and apologized for some if it but maintains some of it was falsely attributed to her. I still like her and trust her as a voice on MSNBC.
Right now, Abrahms can do no wrong. But she IS human, and I won’t be surprised if something unappealing someday surfaces. You live enough years, you make some mistakes and have bad days.
I like much of what Pete says. I don’t think he’s got the big-stage experience. If he ends up being the nominee, I will vote for him.
B.B.A.
@West of the Rockies:
I think you missed my point. Setting unattainably high standards for white men means no white men can ever get elected again. I for one don’t have a problem with this.
joel hanes
@West of the Rockies:
Joel, if I may, if one negative comment or perspective causes a complete cessation of admiration, you won’t end up supporting anybody. Sooner or later, everybody has accumulated some less-than-stellar moments, no?
You absolutely may.
I’m just sick of people kicking Sec. Clinton for bogus narratives.
I regret the comment, and Mayor Pete is still damned impressive, but it was IMHO an extremely unfortunate remark.
Frankensteinbeck
@Ruckus:
That’s one part. Then there are the actual conspiracy theorists, who from what I can tell can’t grasp the idea of coincidence. If you think everything is meaningful, then exceptions become more important than the overall trend, which must be a lie. I think that ‘I’m special’ feeling drives most of the anti-vaxxers, though.
Ruckus
@eclare:
Thing is, my case of shingles wasn’t the worst case I’ve personally heard about. Nor does it sound like the worst case ever described on BJ. That’s why these idiots are fucking morons. We have real life examples of why you don’t risk these diseases and why medicine worked very hard to find ways to vaccinate people. When I was a small child the entire family stood in line at a bank, with lots of other families to get the first polio vaccine. A chance not to get polio? Get out of my way, I want to be first in line.
Fucking Morons.
Mnemosyne
@West of the Rockies:
The times when he’s not condescending, trolling, or dickish are the times when he’s trying to suck up to other commenters to make it look like he’s just a normal commenter and not a professional troll.
Trust me, I’ve seen a lot of weirdo commenters come and go, some of whom still cannot be named in comments because they got banned so hard, and I never suspected any of them of being professional trolls no matter how annoying they were. BP is the only one so far that I think is more than just an annoying asshole.
Frankensteinbeck
@Ruckus:
And that, of course, was the centerpiece of the Reagan Revolution. He sold to damn near the entire white population this idea that of course it’s not RACISM. You can’t accuse any white person of racism if there’s any other possible explanation.
Frankensteinbeck
@Mnemosyne:
I think goblue is a professional. I *think* Brickley is just an asshole who likes to start fights, but I am open on the issue. Goblue disappears for long, long stretches and only shows up when elections are looming to sidetrack threads about Democratic successes into fights over whether some Democrat is good or bad.
eclare
@Ruckus: That’s the way I was for the chicken pox vaccine. IIRC, insurance didn’t cover it when it first came out, I didn’t care and was fortunate that I could pay for it. I was a very, very early adopter.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
He’s a libertarian so of course he blames everyone but the person with the problem, himself. And there are always “reasons” why everyone else is the problem. Skin color, genitalia, etc, something that is different than him. Because he’s perfect, and if everyone else would just discover that simple fact, the world would be a better place.
debbie
@Ruckus:
The parents should be forced to read accounts of the summers filled with polio scares, of the damage done to the small bodies who were infected, and how a lot of them relapsed decades later.
James E Powell
@Brachiator:
Republican attacks on Democrats are a fact of American politics. Same with the press/media obsession with repeating, amplifying, and legitimizing those attacks. Whoever is going to emerge as our nominee must demonstrate the ability to withstand and counter such attacks. Bill Clinton and Obama did. Gore, Kerry, and Hillary Clinton did not.
laura
My mom’s younger sister, Margie had polio at three. They were quarantined. It was ruinous. They eventually had to move due to the ostracism. Polio caused all her teeth to fall out, never grew the second set, dentures for life. Her right leg stopped growing and was short and shrivelled. She had post-polio problems in her later years and died weeks after a metastsizing lung cancer diagnosis. She was tough and vinegary, held a grudge like the Balkens, I loved her dearly. If not for the March of Dimes . . . .
In junior high I had a teacher’s side who was exposed to measles during her first weeks of pregnancy. Her child was very fragile – legally blind, profound hearing loss -and speach impaired, cerebral palsy with motor impairment and the tiniest of cruches. She was extremely vulnerable to colds and respiratory infections. A darling child that was beloved by me and everyone else in the class.
Beloved spouse got a dose of shingles while stressed from grieving the loss of his parents. It rushed over his should and up his neck, face and eye.
I cannot imagine how short, painful and brutish life will revert to thanks to these entitled morons with their notions and inability to do the basic work of research the ample evidence of the benefits of vaccines.
How many children must die as a result of their vanity?
West of the Rockies
@B.B.A.:
Are you being quippy or serious (or just 85% serious)?
chris
Haven’t read all the comments but Have seen a couple of odd things. Here is a history/timeline of vaccines.
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-history/developments-by-year
B.B.A.
@West of the Rockies: I’m always 85% serious.
Ruckus
@Uncle Cosmo:
I remember. I also remember a girl I went to school with for most of 12 yrs, who had polio. She’s one of my real life heroes. She got made fun of in school, she got shunned when we got old enough to understand what it was, she was still there working hard, learning stuff and how to exist. At our 10 yr HS reunion she showed up and walked in without crutches or braces, the first time I’d ever seen her that way. It was amazing. I was hoping to see her at my 50th but she didn’t show up. I figured she might not, she may have medical issues, she may think that most everyone was an asshole, which is true, but she wasn’t in the memorial slide show. (Which went on for quite a while, it was a big school) And two of my friends moms had polio, one had an iron lung in their dinning room.
I remember.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
You just described the last place I worked. When I left I sat in the CEO’s office and told him, you aren’t a good manager, you are a good fire captain. A good manager knows how to keep fires from happening, a good fire captain knows how to put them out. This guy was extremely good at putting them out, in ways that always won over the people involved. That the fires started in the first place on a regular basis with zero intervention was why the fire captain had to show up in the end, always 4 alarm fires. And is why I left. Toxic is not a fun atmosphere to work in.
Ruckus
@Dan B:
In our political atmosphere, never take a story like this at face value up front. Mayor Pete has been partially quoted on more than one occasion and it can make him look bad. If you hear the entire thing, he may have said something completely different and far better. I’m not a particular fan and the commenter who posted this may not be either but Mayor Pete has a lot going for him. He speaks in complete sentences and thoughts, which most politicians, especially republicans, don’t do, they speak in talking points. Every democratic politician running that I like does speak in complete thoughts. It’s up to us to listen to the complete thought, not the given talking point.
Brachiator
@James E Powell:
You’re missing something here. In 2008, McCain refused to make a major deal of the “Obama is not a real American” bullshit. The current GOP takes follows Trump’s lead. They also clearly target whoever appear to be popular or a front runner, hoping to peel off the candidates one by one. They follow Trump in being openly dirty and nasty early, early and often. No scurrilous source is off the table.
The Democrats have one target. Trump. They should be hitting him. And the Republican Congress for good measure.
All the media is not the same. Trump is doing everything he can to legitimize right wing news outlets and make them part of the political conversation.
Democrats and observers need to pay attention to the current state of politics, and not trying to assume that everything is the same as it ever was.
Bex
@zhena gogolia: I read Pete’s book, “Shortest Way Home” and as I posted on an old thread, yes he’s making his case, but before anyone writes him off, look at the background information and consider that. It’s a place to start and we should be reading all the books written by the candidates.
Brachiator
Some of these people have crossed a line, They don’t care who is hurt, not even their own friends and families.
I’ve read of anti-vaxxers delivering death threats to doctors and medical officials. The worst of these people will no longer listen to reason. It’s sad, but where we are.
zhena gogolia
@Bex:
I’m trying to stay in information-gathering mode as long as possible.
Dan B
@joel hanes: Unfortunate is one word for Pete criticizing Clinton. This was from January and we haven’t heard a response. This does not bode well for how he would respond to a diplomatic emergency. At the same time I want him on the debate stage because he adds a certain form of calm reason and doesn’t shy from pointing out that he doesn’t agree with the right wing, but he doesn’t feel we need to go to war. I believe the right is in war mode but there are a lot of passive supporters who can be awakened.
J R in WV
@Cacti:
I understand that in adults, sufferers can break their ribs with the violence of the coughing. I’ve had all the vaccines that were available when my age cohort was receiving them… both kinds of Polio vaccine, Salk and then Sabine. After reading about broken ribs from pertussus/aka whoopoing cough, I went to the county health department for a DPT booster, newer pneumonia vaccine and something else – oh, yeh Shingles!. Just a couple of days, made an appointment. I think I was charged for the Shingles shot, who cares!!!
lurker dean
@david: mayor pete is losing a lot of his glow.
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/03/all-about-pete
Dan B
@Ruckus: I think Pete is amazing. He doesn’t demonize people he disagrees with. He won over Meghan McCain on The View! That’s why this gaffe naming Clinton is so weird. Its easy peasey to morph it into “likes Trump voters” to low info voters. There’s a subtext of doesn’t like women or people of color. I believe he’s worked well with POC and women in South Bend. A good friend is a Notre Dame and is awestruck that he turned that city around. My friend will find out more details.
J R in WV
@Dan B:
He’s clearly wrong there. The Republicans started the war years ago, and Pete hasn’t noticed that and isn’t prepared to deal with it, he isn’t qualified at all.
Plus knocking on Hillary Clinton in any way chills me affection for him instantly!
Two strikes in my book!!
Jay
“An unvaccinated boy got Oregon’s first tetanus case in 30 years — treating him cost over $800,000”
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5033440/oregon-boy-tetanus-unvaccinated/amp/
“Once in care, the boy requested water but he couldn’t open his mouth, the CDC said.
Diagnosed with tetanus, he was given a diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis (DTaP) vaccine. Then he was taken into a darkened room and given ear plugs to minimize stimulation, which was aggravating his spasms.
He developed hypertension, his heart started beating faster and his body temperature grew to 40.5 C. The normal temperature is 37 C.
Doctors administered a tracheostomy — a cut in the neck through which they could place a tube, just to help him breathe.
Finally, on his 35th day in care, he could be weaned off treatment for his muscle spasms. On the 44th day, he could “tolerate sips of clear liquids” again.
On his 50th day in care, he could walk 20 feet with help.
Then, once he had spent 57 days in treatment, he was sent to a rehabilitation centre where he would spend the following 17 days.”
And the kicker, even after all the pain and suffering their kid went through:
“And yet still, after all that, “the family declined the second dose of DTaP and any other recommended immunizations.”
Fuckem all with a rusty tool.
Ruckus
@Dan B:
Also remember it’s way early in the process. We have time to find the Edwards of this go round. The only people I’m firmly against at this moment is BS, because well BS, and Joe Biden. Joe is a likable human being, he’s way too touchy for any modern world and is old. Just think if you could get away with the shit he does. No? That’s why he’s not a good candidate, he’s behind the times, and not by just a few moments, years behind. He’s a good, old time politician and that isn’t an endorsement.
tobie
@Jay: I can’t get started on the selfishness of parents who don’t vaccinate their kids and then put their schoolmates and countless other immune-compromised individuals at risk. I recently visited a friend in Oregon undergoing chemo for an aggressive cancer, and the fact that things like German measles have now returned in the state terrifies him, especially when he has to go to the emergency room. Why, oh why, are vaccines even an issue? Jonas Salk must be turning in his grave.
Brachiator
@Jay:
I wonder how they justify their decision?
Ruckus
@tobie:
Because the world has changed from when, say I was a kid. And it had changed from when my parents were kids. It had only started to change much when my grandparents were born, towards the end of the 19th century. Before that a person might live their entire lives without much or even any noticeable change in day to day living. My grandfather brought his wife and his son from Kansas City to LA by horse drawn wagon just over 100 yrs ago. He lived long enough to see men on the moon. What has changed in your life? In mine we have vaccines for some of the worst diseases, we talk on
phonescomputers we carry with us. We can connect with people who we can’t understand, nor they us. On this blog we have commenters/readers from many parts of the world. We fly to parts of the world in hours that 100 yrs ago would have taken weeks to get to. We drive cars that most people 100 yrs ago could not have even envisioned. We have refrigerators, stoves and heaters that don’t require chopping wood, hot water in our homes, stores to buy crap – and good food at – we don’t have to grow our own.I’ll stop here. Life is better but it’s also different and lot’s of people don’t like different. They want a life that they think is simpler and therefore better. It wasn’t, as any of the olds can tell you, if they are honest. One of the things that isn’t good is that people who want to live with their heads in the sand can tell you why this world is horrible and why you need to go backwards. Because they only see in rear view mode and think they were better off. They don’t see that most everyone can be better off because that doesn’t make them special. And they are in no way special. Trump is their leader because he’s in no way special but they think he’s got everything they don’t have and think they should and you shouldn’t. They don’t want everyone to have a good life, they want to have a special life, one you can’t have.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
They don’t need no fucking justification for their asinine decision.
Two words come to mind.
Fucking. Morons.
I’m willing to listen to other possibilities but I’m betting that we will swing back around to my two word answer.
Jay
@tobie:
We’ve seen lots of cases of Homophobes changing their minds, when someone close to them comes out,
We’ve seen Ammosexuals buy a clue when someone close to them gets mass shot,
We’ve seen racist fuckwads embrace humanity when for a bunch of different reasons, they are personally shown their bigotry is wrong,
We’ve even seen Nazi’s quit Nazi-ing,
But these people had their kid suffer months of soul searing agony and almost die from a preventable infection incurred by a simple cut,
And they are still anti-vaxxers.
@Brachiator:
They don’t ever say.
Probaby because if they did state why they are still anti-vaxxers after the horror their child went through, ( who’s life was only saved by three common vaccines),
The State would take their children away.
Steve in the ATL
@Suzanne:
Have IT plant some pr0n on his computer, then complain to HR and get him fired.
You’re welcome.
debbie
I pulled out my childhood health record. By the time I was 15, I had had 21 different shots/vaccinations. Seems like an awful lot.
Dan B
@lurker dean: The piece comes across as speculative and heavy handed. At tge sane time it raises some concerns. It seems like well off white guy problems. I wonder how he got 80% of the vote if it was 90% of blacks vited against or, more likely, held their noses. Time for more research.
J R in WV
@Ruckus:
Think back to the way Dr Anita Hill was treated when the pervert Clarence Thomas was being considered for the Supreme Court! Then look at the things “Uncle Joe” Biden has said about those hearings — claiming he wished he could have helped her!?!?!?
He was chairman of that committee, and refused to allow other women who would have confirmed Dr. Hill’s testimony to appear. He was why Dr.Hill’s appearance was horrific!!!
I’m a 68 Y O white hillbilly and I knew that was a railroad catastrophe, and it was all Joe Biden’s fault. Fuck that dude and all his horses!!!
J R in WV
@Jay:
Speaking of the parents who wouldn’t let their child have a booster for the tetanus that nearly Killed him:
No, no, the State SHOULD take their children!! Those people are no more qualified to be parents than…. well, I can’t think of an apt comparison…. Oh, Hannibal Lector, that’s about right.
jonas
@MattF:
Being a paranoid dumfuck asshole is not in the DSM. Get out your checkbook, Mr. Jones.
jonas
@Ruckus: This is exactly it. They imagine that they would have had a certain kind of life — one that existed only in imagination and memory, never reality — if only liberals, POC, immigrants, etc. hadn’t somehow spoiled the dream.
Tehanu
I was a kid in the 1950’s, before the measles vaccine, and I had it four times. No complications, no dreadful result — but it was sheer misery every time, sore throat and pain and unbearable itching and fever. Why the fk any parent would put their child through that on purpose is beyond me, and when you think of the possibility of it killing your child … well, “idiots” isn’t nearly strong enough. Their children should be taken away from them and they should be charged with child abuse. At the very least.
HalfAssedHomesteader
@david: Link? I don’t find this in either of those twitter feeds.
ProfDamatu
@debbie:
I know it can seem like that – even over 15 years, 21 shots seems like a very large number. But when you think about the actual amount of material in the shots you received, in total…well, you’re exposed to more pathogens over a couple of days at work during flu season, or an afternoon working in the garden. Yeah, injections are a more intensive exposure than sharing space with sick people, but still – the numbers of pathogens are just not that high in vaccines, and in most cases, they’re killed, such that you can’t get the disease from the shot. And if it’s the rest of the vaccine components that concern you, what I find helpful is to remember that the dose makes the poison. Even if there were harmful components in vaccines (which, AFAIK, there generally aren’t) the amount is so small as to be of no concern for the vast majority of people. Perhaps my perspective on that is a bit skewed, having gone through chemo twice, but public health experts will say the same thing. :-)
Ruckus
@J R in WV:
Probably dead thread but please don’t take me wrong, I don’t want Biden anywhere near political office and for all the same reasons you do. But he is a likable guy, if you don’t know the stories. A lot of guys are likable shits. I don’t think he’s that bad but then I’ve never been on the receiving end of his attentions. He is an old school politician, friendly, and yes too friendly for American tastes or any time that women are involved, which should be 100% of the time. It’s their world too and shutting them out, like POC is just wrong. Biden goes too far in the other direction for sure but in his day that was acceptable behavior. That he has no idea that it hasn’t been for some years is part of his problem.
debbie
@ProfDamatu:
I wasn’t concerned, just surprised at there being that many. At least this explains my terror of needles!
Jr
@debbie: there’s a lot of things that can kill us