Breaking News: We May Have Breaking News

From The New York Times:

WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, has delivered a report on his inquiry into Russian interference in the 2016 election to Attorney General William P. Barr, according to the Justice Department, bringing to an apparent close an investigation that has consumed the nation and cast a shadow over President Trump for nearly two years.

Mr. Barr will decide how much of the report to share with Congress and, by extension, the American public. The House voted unanimously in March on a nonbinding resolution to make public the report’s findings, an indication of the deep support within both parties to air whatever evidence prosecutors uncovered.

Since Mr. Mueller’s appointment in May 2017, his team has focused on how Russian operatives sought to sway the outcome of the 2016 presidential race and whether anyone tied to the Trump campaign, wittingly or unwittingly, cooperated with them. While the inquiry, started months earlier by the F.B.I., unearthed a far-ranging Russian influence operation, no public evidence has emerged that the president or his aides illegally assisted it.

Nonetheless, the damage to Mr. Trump and those in his circle has been extensive. A half-dozen former Trump aides have been indicted or convicted of crimes, mostly for lying to federal investigators or Congress. Others remain under investigation in cases that Mr. Mueller’s office handed off to federal prosecutors in New York and elsewhere. Dozens of Russian intelligence officers or citizens, along with three Russian companies, were charged in cases that are likely to languish in court because the defendants cannot be extradited to the United States.

Even though Mr. Mueller’s report is complete, some aspects of his inquiry remain active and may be overseen by the same prosecutors once they are reassigned to their old jobs within the Justice Department. For instance, recently filed court documents suggest that investigators are still examining why the former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort turned over campaign polling data in 2016 to a Russian associate whom prosecutors said was tied to Russian intelligence.

Mr. Mueller looked extensively at whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice to protect himself or his associates. But despite months of negotiations, prosecutors were unable to personally interview the president.

Those who know Mr. Mueller, a former F.B.I. director, predicted a concise, legalistic report devoid of opinions — nothing like the 445-page treatise that Kenneth W. Starr, who investigated President Bill Clinton, produced in 1998. Operating under a now-defunct statute that governed independent counsels, Mr. Starr had far more leeway than Mr. Mueller to set his own investigative boundaries and to render judgments.

The regulations that govern Mr. Mueller, who is under the supervision of the Justice Department, only require him to explain his decisions to either seek or decline to seek criminal charges in a confidential report to the attorney general. The attorney general is then required to notify the leadership of the House and Senate judiciary committees.

During his Senate confirmation hearing, Mr. Barr promised to release as much information as possible, saying “the country needs a credible resolution of these issues.” But he may be reluctant to release the part of Mr. Mueller’s report that may be of most interest: who the special counsel declined to prosecute and why, especially if Mr. Trump is on that list.

As of now no one knows anything more than they did 10 minutes ago before Special Counsel Mueller delivered his report to the Attorney General. So we will have a long weekend of fevered and feverish speculation about what is or is not in the report. About what information will and will not be released from the report to Congress or the American people.


Updated at 5:30 PM EDT

Here is Attorney General Barr’s letter to the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees:

Update at 5:56 PM EDT

Speaker Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Schumer have responded to Attorney General Barr’s notification to the House and Senate Judiciary Committees that Special Counsel Mueller has turned in his report:

Pelosi, Schumer Joint Statement On Special Counsel Mueller’s Report

MARCH 22, 2019

Washington, D.C. – Today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer released the following statement regarding Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report to Attorney General William Barr:

“Now that Special Counsel Mueller has submitted his report to the Attorney General, it is imperative for Mr. Barr to make the full report public and provide its underlying documentation and findings to Congress.  Attorney General Barr must not give President Trump, his lawyers or his staff any ‘sneak preview’ of Special Counsel Mueller’s findings or evidence, and the White House must not be allowed to interfere in decisions about what parts of those findings or evidence are made public.

“The Special Counsel’s investigation focused on questions that go to the integrity of our democracy itself: whether foreign powers corruptly interfered in our elections, and whether unlawful means were used to hinder that investigation.  The American people have a right to the truth.  The watchword is transparency.”

Updated at 6:47 PM EDT

Open thread!

249 replies
  1. 1
    Betty Cracker says:

  2. 2
    Anne Laurie says:

    Snark, however, is always applicable:

  3. 3
    MomSense says:

    I have this naggjng worry that Barr May have stopped the investigation.

  4. 4
    zzyzx says:

    I posted this in the thread below, but I’ll be stunned if this has any lasting impact. I suspect we’re not going to learn anything we don’t already at least suspect. We’ll be mad over the misdeeds, Trump will crow “No collusion,” and by mid April, we’ll be onto something else.

    People have been putting way too high of an expectation on this, one that it can never live up to.

  5. 5
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Betty Cracker: The SDNY, US Attorney of DC, AG of NY, District Attorney of Manhattan, etc all sill have miles to go before they sleep.

  6. 6
    rikyrah says:

    I always loved the iceberg graphic

  7. 7
    MomSense says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Isn’t there still an ongoing proceeding between the special counsel and the Russian owned firm about their refusal to hand over subpoenaed documents?

  8. 8
    zzyzx says:

    My one hope is that there’s something there that at least embarrasses Trump.

  9. 9
    chopper says:

    so, what if barr redacts a shit ton of the report before sending it to congress? does the house call mueller in to testify?

  10. 10
    dmsilev says:

    We’re going to find that Mueller and his entire team actually spent the last two years playing an extended Angry Birds marathon, right?

  11. 11
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    This was always going to be Fitzmas II. The Mueller report, whatever it says, was better as an inchoate threat rather than as a reality.

  12. 12
    Brachiator says:

    Received a couple of hot notifications that it’s Mueller time. Friday Night Lights!

    We will see what happens.

  13. 13
    eemom says:

    The deecee skies rumbled, darkened, and poured down hail late this afternoon. Now it’s clear and sunny. #coinkydinkIthinknot

  14. 14
    tobie says:

    I have a question–what would be the reason for keeping any indictments sealed at this point?

    AG Khazumi left the SDNY today to be closer to his family in DC? Does anyone have any interpretation of this factoid?

  15. 15

    Adam, do I understand correctly that Mueller likely would not have indicted the top criminals, only the ones he needed to gather the evidence for someone else to indict the criminals named in his final report?

    I think we would have heard if Barr made them cut short. The White House leaks like a sieve, and the IC has a personal stake in this.

  16. 16
    chopper says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:

    even if the report isn’t a knockout, there’s going to be plenty of fodder for further investigations by the house.

  17. 17
    ruemara says:

    We’ll see if this has any worth as we see what happens.

  18. 18
    tobie says:

    @eemom: it’s dark again in Maryland and raining. We are not in the clear.

  19. 19
    Shalimar says:

    Don’t care about the report. Want all the grand jury materials turned over to appropriate House committees.

  20. 20
    feebog says:

    There are almost three dozen sealed indictments filed at the DC circuit court. How many of them are from Mueller? And if any of them are, when will they be unsealed?

  21. 21
    piratedan says:

    my tangible worry is that even with evidence that shows that the GOP party officials engaged in conspiracy to subvert the elections with the aid of foreign agents by use of money, technical means and illicit gathering of data (all of which is illegal as far as I understand it) and that they also in fact coordinated their efforts with the current administration and many members of Congress and the Senate, that the GOP will find themselves not guilty or culpable of any wrong doing because they are anointed of God and their cause is just, no matter the laws of the land.

  22. 22
    trollhattan says:

    “Trump weighs the same as a duck and therefore….”

    –R. Mueller III

  23. 23
    Suzanne says:

    I am already having a hard time managing my anxiety today, and this is just ratcheting that shit right up.

  24. 24
    trollhattan says:

    Our metroplex brewery count is now >100.

    How many can I hit before closing time?

  25. 25
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MomSense: Yes, as well as the appeal by one of Stone’s “assistants” of Mueller’s subpoena. What we don’t know is if this is the final report. Just the portion on obstruction. Just the portion on conspiracy with Russia. Just the portion on Russian interference. All of it, some of it, none of it.

    Hence, no one knows anything more than they did 30 minutes ago.

  26. 26
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @tobie: They have had sealed indictments since late August. Perhaps logistics?

  27. 27
    RenoRick says:

    I’m a bit worried this was put out on a Friday. Could mean nothing, or could mean anything! I doubt this will change anything since the media loves them some Cheeto!

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MomSense: Actually based on Barr’s letter to the chairs and ranking members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, he’s done done:

  29. 29
    NotMax says:

    “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”
    &&160; – Winston Churchill

  30. 30
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @feebog: This. There have been ~17 held since late August, I believe.

  31. 31
    NotMax says:

    Ack. Pre-coffee bleary-eyed code fail Fix.

    “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”
      – Winston Churchill

  32. 32
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What happens if there are sealed indictments?

  33. 33
    raven says:

    WE is a French word that means yes.

  34. 34
    MomSense says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t trust Barr as far as I can throw a piano. He is the person who saved George HW, and the rest of the traitorous Iran Contra conspirators.

  35. 35
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @chopper: Yep.

  36. 36
    JPL says:

    The news media needs to chill. They are like tots on xmas morning

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dmsilev: Candy Crush.

  38. 38
    MazeDancer says:

    Bought 4 bottles of wine yesterday. May not last until tomorrow.

    How can Jared and Don,Jr not be in handcuffs?

  39. 39
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: I do not know.

  40. 40
    Anya says:

    Can we assume then there won’t be indictments of Jr, Jared or anyone else?

  41. 41
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @feebog: We do not know the answers to either of those questions.

  42. 42
    guachi says:

    Unfortunately for America the report of indict/no indict, right?

    That won’t be enough to actually tell us what happened. It’s not an Intelligence report.

  43. 43
    Wapiti says:

    @MomSense: Agreed. He’s tainted.

  44. 44
    Skepticat says:

    @zzyzx: This.

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:


    that the GOP will find themselves not guilty or culpable of any wrong doing because they are anointed of God and their cause is just, no matter the laws of the land.

    This is just SCIENCE!

  46. 46
    Mary G says:

    @Suzanne: I know. I would kill for a large bottle of Xanax so I could just sleep for the next week.

    And he indicts people for lying to Congress, but not Don Jr., Kushner, et. al?

  47. 47

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Good enough answer! You’re a great expert for government and IC matters, but nobody knows everything. Thank you.

  48. 48
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Skepticat: People thought Nixon was going to skate. Until they didn’t.

    The system is working. Patience.

  49. 49
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Egads! – The Red October is surfacing

  50. 50
    piratedan says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I find your lack of faith… disturbing, young Silverman,,,

  51. 51
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @MomSense: “May?” It clearly wasn’t finished.

  52. 52
    NotMax says:

    On the plus side, we no longer need be subjected to a periodic influx of people running around with their hair aflame screaming “Mueller’s gonna be fired any second now!”


  53. 53
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Nixon was forced out by a Congress that passed environmental protection with supermajorities.

  54. 54
    khead says:

    The SDNY, US Attorney of DC, AG of NY, District Attorney of Manhattan, etc all sill have miles to go before they sleep.

    Wanted to highlight this before heading off to happy hour.

  55. 55
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @NotMax: he effectively was.

  56. 56
    VeniceRiley says:

    Is this the part where Republicans all head to “Republican Disneyland” Mar-a-Lago for golf and underage sex slaves?

  57. 57
    TS (the original) says:

    @piratedan: That is no worry – that is fact. I’m not sure the world will survive 2 more years of trump and the GOP.

  58. 58
    Brickley Paiste says:

    At the press conference Barr was standing in front of gold-fringed flags, which means the court is acting under maritime law, not criminal law. So, no indictments possible, Q.E.D.

  59. 59
    Suzanne says:

    @Mary G:

    And he indicts people for lying to Congress, but not Don Jr., Kushner, et. al?

    For whom are those sealed indictments?

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Anya: We cannot. US Attorney in DC, SDNY, AG of NY State, etc.

  61. 61
    JMG says:

    Dave Weigh of the Post had a good point. Democrats in Congress are no longer going to be able to punt on the impeachment question by saying they’re waiting for the report.

  62. 62

    Cripes. I’m tired of living in interesting times.

  63. 63
    zhena gogolia says:


    The only cheerful thing I’ve seen!

  64. 64
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @guachi: Pelosi and Schumer have responded:

    Pelosi, Schumer Joint Statement On Special Counsel Mueller’s Report
    MARCH 22, 2019

    Washington, D.C. – Today, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer released the following statement regarding Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report to Attorney General William Barr:

    “Now that Special Counsel Mueller has submitted his report to the Attorney General, it is imperative for Mr. Barr to make the full report public and provide its underlying documentation and findings to Congress. Attorney General Barr must not give President Trump, his lawyers or his staff any ‘sneak preview’ of Special Counsel Mueller’s findings or evidence, and the White House must not be allowed to interfere in decisions about what parts of those findings or evidence are made public.

    “The Special Counsel’s investigation focused on questions that go to the integrity of our democracy itself: whether foreign powers corruptly interfered in our elections, and whether unlawful means were used to hinder that investigation. The American people have a right to the truth. The watchword is transparency.”

  65. 65
    trollhattan says:

    Yuge, classy tire swing for the trifecta.

  66. 66
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @TS (the original): Barring the 25th Amendment or an act of God, there’s going to be two more years of Trump. The Republicans won’t remove him unless something comes out that’s so bad that nobody at all could even try to defend them. They are too scared of his base to even defend an old and deceased colleague, let alone anything more oppositional.

    I’m afraid of the results, but remember that even here, a lot of other entities are going to keep working. NYC and NY State have a lot of cases, the Attorney’s Offices are career prosecutors, there are several lawsuits, and worst of all, the Epstein case is heating up.

    Mueller was always going to stop before he was considered a factor in the 2020 Election anyway. March 2019 is while still a long way from the primaries, close enough with candidates announcing.

  67. 67
    JMG says:

    It’s Dave Weigel of the Post, not my typo of his name. My own opinion is that the more explosive Mueller’s report the more likely we are to see more of it, as the hotter it is, the less Barr is going to want to hold it.

  68. 68

    I plan to speculate recklessly, judge and impugn harshly without context or factual basis, question every detail for sole purpose of obscuring what matters, and wave my arms around in a spasm of spittle-flecked invective.

    In other words, practicing for my audition to a grifter slot on Fox Propaganda! Win-win!

    Meanwhile, Buffalo is handing AZ State a big plate of offense for additional winning. Woohoo!

  69. 69
    Brickley Paiste says:


    Nobody has any idea. Those are, apparently, filed with the court and nobody even knows for sure whether they are related to the Mueller investigation.

    Most branches of federal courthouses have a number of sealed indictments just sitting around. My wife was on Grand Jury and over the course of 18 months, they voted for over 30 indictments in a matter that were sealed and until the investigation was complete and the raids happened one morning. (Criminal case involving arms trafficking, nothing related to Mueller.)

  70. 70
    smintheus says:

    Probably been said already, but presumably this is not “the” Mueller report, but a Mueller report. This is just the report explaining why he has/has not indicted people. But he was tasked with a counterintelligence investigation as well as a criminal investigation. There must be at least one report on the former coming.

  71. 71
    trnc says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The SDNY, US Attorney of DC, AG of NY, District Attorney of Manhattan, etc all sill have miles to go before they sleep.

    Not to mention the US House of Representatives.

  72. 72
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: I understand the intel side of this well, I understand the counter-intel side pretty well. I’m not a lawyer. That said, I don’t think this is anywhere close to over.

  73. 73
    rikyrah says:

    Crutches&Spice♿️ (@Imani_Barbarin) Tweeted:
    Something I want you to pay attention to in the wake of white supremacist violence:

    White “allies” are always quoted saying “this isn’t the country I know,” while those marginalized and targeted are almost never heard saying that.

    Why? Because that is the country they know.

  74. 74
    smintheus says:

    It’s also worth noting that the FBI did not ever interview Trump. Just as the FBI did not interview Kavanaugh regarding the accusations against him. Quite a coincidence.

  75. 75
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trnc: Correct.

  76. 76
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    “The White House must not be allowed to interfere in decisions about what parts of those findings or evidence are made public,” they say.

    I’m sorta hoping that Mueller prefixed it with a carefully crafted large-font one page “executive” summary.
    Shallow, yep.

  77. 77
    Tony Jay says:

    If you guys put a 2×4 across the knees of the Familia di Trumpo in the same week that we finally start hammering a stake through the rotted corpse of Brexit….

    Why my good people, I may raise more than a smile.

    ( twirls mustaches, risks an inappropriate wink, gets coat, leaves)

  78. 78
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    This is one of the benefits of taking back the House: there will be continued hearings and oversight, the report will not be deepsixed behind classification. Given what’s already come out, I doubt if Trump is exonerated unless everybody around him kept him entirely in the dark about everything. Given his personality, the answer is no. He trusts nobody that much to leave it all up to them.

  79. 79
    MazeDancer says:


    Mueller has announced through spokesperson no more indictments.

    It’s all up to SDNY, now

  80. 80
    zhena gogolia says:

    5/ There is no reason to believe the Mueller Report has any impact on ongoing investigations in SDNY & other US Attys offices. And it, of course, has no effect on state AGs.

    Joyce White Vance

  81. 81
    Brachiator says:

    OT God fucking dammit
    I just saw this headline

    Parkland Survivor Takes Her Own Life a Year After Shooting

    19-year-old Sydney Aiello took her own life this weekend, her mother announced on Friday, more than a year after surviving the mass shooting at Parkland, FL’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

    Speaking with CBS Miami, Cara Aiello said her daughter had recently been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder, and had grappled with survivor’s guilt following the Parkland shootings in February 2018, which killed 17 people, including Sydney’s close friend Meadow Pollack. While Aiello was at school on the day of the shooting, her mother said she was not in the building where the murders took place.

    Aiello was in her first year in college. Heartbreakingly, her mother said that her daughter struggled with attendance in college because, in CBS Miami’s words, she was “afraid to be in a classroom.”

    This is so fucking unfair. I have no words.

  82. 82
    rikyrah says:

    Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) Tweeted:
    Americans deserve to know the truth now that the Mueller report is complete. The report must be released immediately and AG Barr must publicly testify under oath about the investigation’s findings. We need total transparency here.

  83. 83
    rikyrah says:


    Robert Scott (@rescott534) Tweeted:
    Hillary Clinton lost the Presidency by about 77,430 Votes over Three States two of which Wisconsin and Michigan had Republican Governors who instituted severe Voter Suppression and Pennsylvania had hacking of it’s Voting Machines so let’s stop this bullshit about flawed candidate

  84. 84
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @MazeDancer: There will be no more indictments made by the Special Counsel’s Office. This doesn’t tell us what, if anything, Special Counsel Mueller handed off to SDNY, the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, the NY State AG, etc.

    It also does not mean that DNI Coates is shutting down the Combined Joint Counterintelligence Task Force.

  85. 85
    rikyrah says:

    Robert Scott (@rescott534) Tweeted:
    Hillary Clinton lost the Presidency by about 77,430 Votes over Three States two of which Wisconsin and Michigan had Republican Governors who instituted severe Voter Suppression and Pennsylvania had hacking of it’s Voting Machines so let’s stop this bullshit about flawed candidate

  86. 86
  87. 87
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    What about sealed indictments?

  88. 88
    JPL says:

    @rikyrah: Thank you.

  89. 89
    zhena gogolia says:


    I see from some of the tweets on that thread that the Repub mantra now is “NO INDICTMENTS!”

  90. 90
    Aleta says:

    Here are the threads Mueller has begun to publicly unravel—and the lingering mysteries that might fall to Congress to solve.
    Atlantic, by Natasha Bertrand

  91. 91
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: My guess if they’re sealed and still operable, then they’ve been handed off to the appropriate US Attorneys Offices for action.

  92. 92
    Seanly says:

    Color me cynical, but this won’t change anything. All Republicans will keep protecting this asshat of a President because he’s a Republican and they’re Republicans. Maybe there’s something juicy in the sealed indictments, but when do they get unsealed?

  93. 93
    Aleta says:

    Kyle Griffin @kylegriffin1

    Adam Schiff to @MSNBC: “The report itself, as important as that will be, is not as important as the underlying evidence. Of particular concern to us on the Intel Committee, any evidence of compromise … any evidence … [of] acting in the foreign interest of an adversary.”

  94. 94

    @rikyrah: It’s the lie that will never die.

  95. 95
    Steeplejack says:

    A useful thread (from the Hoarse Whisperer last month) to help us quell our fears and hyperventilating: Mueller as investigator rather than prosecutor.

  96. 96
  97. 97

    Can we postpone the panic until we know more?

  98. 98
    Elizabelle says:

    Checking in from Germany. Had a feeling today might be the day. Just learned of this (my friend and I have been watching episodes of The Fall, which several of you recommended, and which is excellent, thank you).

  99. 99
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: For now, in the US, you are free to panic as much or as little or as often as you like.

  100. 100
  101. 101
    oldgold says:

    I am puzzled as to why Jr., Kush and the Princess were not called before the GJ.

    I was hoping it was because they were named in sealed indictments. I guess, that still could be so, but am much less confident of that than I was 30 days ago.

  102. 102
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @zhena gogolia: I’m honestly surprised by the lack of obstruction of justice indictments. Because… yeah, those seemed pretty damn clear.

  103. 103

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s right there in the 30th Amendment to the Constitution.

  104. 104
    debbie says:


    Trump sounded exactly as he always does when he made his remarks before leaving for Florida this afternoon. I couldn’t tell whether he was trying to keep up a brave front before the bad news became public or if he was saying exactly what he always says so as not to give away the joyous news.

  105. 105
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @oldgold: Sealed indictments appear to not be a thing. From TPM: “CNN reporter Laura Jarrett said that there were no sealed indictments issued by the special counsel waiting to be released.”

  106. 106
    rk says:

    If Trump spends the weekend and next week crazed tweeting and trashing Mueller, then the report is bad. If he triumphantly tweets no collusion and claiming exoneration then the report is not bad for him and he’s gotten away with stealing the election.

  107. 107
    zhena gogolia says:

    You guys are really depressing me. I should have been reading War and Peace for the past hour instead of getting bummed out here.

  108. 108
    debbie says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    More likely, he stood there to protect them from Trump. You know how Trump gets when he sees a flag.

  109. 109
    Miss Bianca says:

    @schrodingers_cat: NOOOOO!! Panic! Flail! Gibber! Aaargh! Blither!

  110. 110
    jk says:


    People have been putting way too high of an expectation on this, one that it can never live up to.

    I suspect you’re correct making it all the more important that we pick the best possible Democratic nominee to kick Trump’s fat totalitarian ass out of office in 2020.

  111. 111
  112. 112
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:


    “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”
    &&160; – Winston Churchill

    That’s my expectation. Next will be the pointless fight between Trump and Congress over releasing the report. Trump will lose, The report will be released and won’t be as bad as voices in Trump’s head made it out to be, since Muller wasn’t looking into the cannibalism allegations. So Trump will scream “Exonerated!”. Then everyone will read the report and then we non lawyers will learn the legal phrases for four crimes and so on.

  113. 113
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @MisterForkbeard: No more from Mueller. Active cases were handed off. Jarrett asked the question of the Mueller investigation.

    This story isn’t over. We are just getting to the good part.

  114. 114
    Elizabelle says:

    @zhena gogolia: Yeah, I am skipping the comments on this thread. I tire of the cynics and know it alls here.

    Was rather hoping for some Trump family indictments, I must say. Let’s see what’s in the report, and how this plays out.

    Grateful to be nowhere near US cable news this weekend.

  115. 115
    wuzzat says:

    @Bobby Thomson: And Nixon was so far left of today’s Republican Party that I’m pretty sure the GOP has retroactively declared him a Democrat.

  116. 116
    debbie says:


    Just horrible. How long before Anne Coulter begins her mockery?

  117. 117
    Brickley Paiste says:


    And the gold fringe drives him batty because gold is, like, super CLASSY. Very ELEGANT.

  118. 118
    trollhattan says:

    Oh shit. Soul-crushing. That poor, poor girl. I grieve for her and her stolen life.

  119. 119
    Another Scott says:

    @chopper: I assume Mueller is going to be busy testifying before the House regardless. It will be telling if the GOP refuses to call him to testify before the Senate.


  120. 120
    Seanly says:


    The first season was such a refreshing change to the typical television hunt for a serial killer. Many of the performances were very good. A couple of the subplots weren’t so good, but I liked it overall. The second season of “The Fall” started off interesting but fumbled numerous times. I don’t want to spoil anything, but the best part of the second season was the first few episodes when it was dealing with an aspect of the investigation that is never dealt with on TV.

  121. 121
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @TS (the original): Oh, the world will survive it. The US might not.

  122. 122
    Steve in the ATL says:


    I tire of the cynics and know it alls here.

    You pied me?!

  123. 123
    Kathleen says:

    @Elizabelle: I hear NBC “News” blathering in the living room as I type in my office. I’m switching to Law & Order reruns. I sometimes think there are television shows that present more context, nuance, truth and information than our “Librul Media”.

  124. 124
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Steeplejack: Nice thread. It’s commenters like the Hoarse Whisperer that make me actually feel like getting a Twitter account.

    Then I lie down till the feeling goes away.

    @Elizabelle: I think it made it through two seasons of “The Fall”, is there a third? It’s hard to get over here on DVD.

  125. 125
    JWR says:

    @Tony Jay: Just to ease the tension around these parts, I’m so looking forward to whatever you have to say about Brexit being boosted to FP status!

  126. 126
    Jay says:

    @Tony Jay:

    Tony, can you Britsplain something to me?

    Nothing that I have read, anywhere, adequately explains to me why the Leave/Russian cheating and fraud is a “non-issue” in the UK.

    I understand that some of the media don’t want to touch it with a 10 foot pole, because they are complicit, but the Beebs? The House, the Remainers?

  127. 127
    piratedan says:

    @Steve in the ATL: perhaps she only tarted you….

  128. 128
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Isn’t there also a galaxy of other Federal prosecutors involved in possible crimes that came out of this investigation?

  129. 129
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @rikyrah: Thank you for this link. AND for the many others you have provided. I’ve learned a lot. Have had to re-examine and re-consider many things I took for granted or simply failed to see and/or think about.

    It has not been pleasant at all times, but I hope I’ve made some progress.

    (From 79YO white woman who spent 1940-1961 in the world of OK and TX. Then 61-68 in the far different world of grad school in NoCA and the eye-opening world of the 60s world of the Penninsula south of SF.)

  130. 130
    Danielx says:


    Be nice to think so, but I have yet to notice trump being embarrassed by anything whatsoever

  131. 131
    hilts says:


    Was rather hoping for some Trump family indictments, I must say.

    Don’t give up hope. I look forward to the long arm of the law coming down on Jared, Ivanka, and Don Jr like a ton of bricks.

  132. 132
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yes, those would be the folks at the US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York and for DC.

  133. 133
    Adam L Silverman says:

  134. 134
  135. 135
    Steeplejack says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Link to that thread by Joyce White Vance:

    1/ A few key points in Barr’s letter to Congressional leaders. First, there were no instances where the AG/acting AG told Mueller he could not take steps he wanted to.

    — Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) March 22, 2019

  136. 136
    Anya says:

    @Adam L Silverman: i don’t understand how the special council indicated people for lying to Congress but doesn’t touch the president’s son and his son in-law

  137. 137
    zhena gogolia says:


    I made my first contributions today, to Kamala and Pete. Not ready to make it monthly yet. If I do it will be Harris.

  138. 138
    Karen says:

    @JMG: What is the purpose of a one House Impeachment? The Senate is not gonna do anything about it so what is the point?

  139. 139
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Because of course he will. His poll numbers went up twenty points after he started kissing trumps ass. Since EFG isn’t back yet, let me add fuck.em.

  140. 140
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Anya: He may have handed that off to the US Attorney in DC to deal with so he could finish his work. But ultimately we don’t know right now and we may never know.

  141. 141
    Danielx says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Please sir, may I have another?

  142. 142
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @debbie: Ot Laura Ingraham? a la her treatment of David Hogg.

  143. 143
    JoeyJoeJoe says:

    the panicking and speculation always reminds me of this guy:

  144. 144
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Danielx: There are things that I do not want to think about.

  145. 145
    Emma says:

    Oh for crying out loud. The reality of this investigation always was that Mueller wasn’t going to perpwalk Trump, ok? Not his brief. The prosecution of a president is always, always up to Congress. The best we can get at the moment is to let the House hound the bastards for information while we take back either the presidency or the senate.


  146. 146
    Adam L Silverman says:

  147. 147
  148. 148
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Steeplejack: so he says. And he’s a liar going way back who works for a bigger liar backed up by a party of liars.

  149. 149
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @lamh36: That’s from 2010.

  150. 150
    Ruckus says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    I keep thinking I need to sign up for twitter. I have to sign up for twitter. The world will come to an end if I don’t sign up for twitter.
    And then I wake up, look around, shrug and get on with my life, such as it is. Don’t let the dark side take over.

  151. 151
    Karen says:

    When talking about this Report, they said that a President cannot be indicted and acted as if that’s a well known fact. Adam, is that true? If Trump cannot be indicted then what’s the point of this Report?

  152. 152
    JPL says:

    @lamh36: It’s from 2010..

  153. 153
    JWR says:

    @lamh36: FAKE NEWS! //snark

  154. 154
    Bill Arnold says:


    I look forward to the long arm of the law coming down on Jared, Ivanka, and Don Jr like a ton of bricks.

    I have thoroughly suppressed somewhat harsher desires for their eventual fates. Jared and Ivanka in particular. (Humility. I want them to experience that feeling for the first time in their lives, even if it does damage to their minds.)

  155. 155
    Steeplejack says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Which translation, or original Russian?

  156. 156
    JPL says:

    @Karen: Supposedly it is a policy of DOJ which Comey ignored. If not indicted you are not suppose to talk about the evidence.

  157. 157
    Danielx says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    What can I say? At this point – and I admit it’s been a bad day – I feel tired. Mueller’s report isn’t going to change any minds. Republican pols won’t be moved. As for trump fans, they could see the shitgibbon fucking a dead pig or live child or vice versa with their own eyes and they would deny it or say it was perfectly okay.

    Which does not mean I won’t do whatever I can to oppose him…..

  158. 158
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    That’s a nice piece of writing–who’s “at Mar-a-Lago”–Graham or Mueller?

  159. 159
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: Tweet is dead and gone.

  160. 160
    lamh36 says:

    @MisterForkbeard: @JWR: @Adam L Silverman:

    I knew it was too good to be true!

    @lamh36: dang…seems it’s an old tweet…oh well

  161. 161
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Karen: According to DOJ’s Office of Legal Counsel guidance from 1973, a sitting president cannot be indicted. It is not based in law, nor in the Constitution. The argument that Neil Katyal, who drafted the current guidelines for appointing a special counsel and for how one operates, has been making is that if the DOJ guidance is being followed, and the President cannot be indicted, then the DOJ has no choice but to release everything to Congress (at least), so that Congress can decide if impeachment is warranted.

    We shall see.

  162. 162
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: That’s a separate policy rooted in the Privacy Act of 1974.

  163. 163
    Steeplejack says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I don’t have a Twitter account. You can look up anyone and read their comments by going to, for example:

    Just replace “hoarsewisperer” above with anyone’s @nym, e.g., Popehat, Zeddary, MollyJongFast, realDonaldTrump.

  164. 164
  165. 165
    RandomMonster says:


    Then 61-68 in the far different world of grad school in NoCA and the eye-opening world of the 60s world of the Penninsula south of SF

    Did you spend some quality time in La Honda and the Santa Cruz Mountains? (I’m formerly a resident of those woods…)

  166. 166
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Danielx: I understand. Pace yourself. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

  167. 167
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: Graham.

  168. 168
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: Probably retweeted because Wikileaks keeps 1) teasing something and 2) flogging that a US government owned jet assigned to DOJ flew to London yesterday.

  169. 169
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Adam L Silverman: More like guidelines than actual rules.

  170. 170
    Mike in NC says:

    No doubt Putin has been briefed on the report.

  171. 171
    Steeplejack says:


    Heh, well played.

  172. 172
    Jay says:


    The only reason to join Twitter is to say something on Twitter.

    You can read all the Twitter threads you want with out ever joining Twitter.

  173. 173
    Tony Jay says:


    What? No! I couldn’t do that! Betty just wants to use the ‘Why we ain’t Exited Brexit’ comment to explain to Americans how we Brits aren’t total nutters.

    I am going to have a crack at explaining what the hell is going on with Brexit now that Europe has delivered its considered verdict on how crap Theresa May is. Hopeful? Doomed? Drugged and bundled into the back of a speeding car by some Russian guys who want Brexit to explain to Comrade Vlad how it screwed up his investment? We’ll see.

  174. 174
    Anya says:

    @Emma: I never expected that but I thought Junior and Jared we’re toast. Mueller didn’t even interview them. Not gonna lie, this made me depressed. I wanted that elephant murdering psychopath at least indicated.

  175. 175

    @Mike in NC: I’m sure it’ll come up in Trump’s next performance review.

  176. 176
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @rikyrah: I always assumed that the This isn’t the country, etc was just a way of trying to appeal to certain racists by saying come on, we’re handing you an excuse here to at least pretend you’re not racist. Because, you know, calling racists racist makes them racist – or something.

  177. 177
    Steeplejack says:


    Hmm, that tweet has disappeared.

  178. 178
  179. 179
    Steeplejack says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Joyce White Vance has been a reliable commenter so far.

  180. 180
    lamh36 says:

    @Steeplejack: check upthread…it was from 2010…so that’s likely why it was deleted

  181. 181
    MomSense says:


    I’m heartbroken and furious.

  182. 182
    Steeplejack says:


    It’s clear from the punctuation that it’s Graham.

    Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham[, among the senior lawmakers directly informed this afternoon that Mueller has submitted his report,] will be at Mar-a-Lago tonight.

    reduces to:

    Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham will be at Mar-a-Lago tonight.

  183. 183
    Steeplejack says:


    Got it. Sometimes I comment as I go down the thread.

  184. 184
    lamh36 says:

    I’ve never believed that Meuller’s report was gonna lead to and end of Trump’s presidency…I’ve always maintained that the only way Chump will leave office early, it would be cause he’s no longer breathing (i.e. hello Prez Pence)…or 2020 when we HAVE to vote him out. I hope everyone is ready and registered and got all they shit together. We’ve got 2 years to make sure all our ducks are in a row!

    As for impeachment, Pelosi has already said, “he’s not worth it”. So short of devastating new, that even the Repubs can’t deny, I don’t expect impeachment proceedings.

    What I hope is that “woke” Dems don’t go back to that bullshit harping about elected Dems not wanting to start impeachment proceedings…and focus instead on getting ready to vote the orange fuq’er out. Registering more of OUR voters…making sure EVERYONE has their ducks in a row. We already know the Russians are working up for 2020…and making sure we have the STRONGEST candidate we can get to take Chump down.

    Dems needs to think one step ahead of them fuq’ers….and DON’T DEPEND ON TRYING TO CHANGE THE MINDS of Chump voters. If Mueller report truly doesn’t lead to anything then those deplorables will hold even faster to their ignorance and hunker down in support of Chump

  185. 185
    Jay says:

    BTDubs, New Zealand didn’t just ban semi automatics.

    New Zealand and Austrailian ISP’s have blocked all access to 4chan, 8chan and other sites that posted the video. Not just the pages with the video, the whole sites.

  186. 186
    Tony Jay says:


    That’s a very good question. I’m no expert, and God knows the Leave campaign was beyond shady, but basically I think it’s because we have never had a Mueller type investigation growing out of counter-intelligence efforts already in place before the fateful 2016 vote took place. The existence of Mueller and his power to seek answers a) made the question of Russian collusion ‘real’ and non-partisan, and b) took the power to bury the whole thing out of the hands of the people who benefited from it. The investigation was happening regardless of how much Trump and Co disliked it, while here it was all dumped down the memory hole and the Media, including the BBC, just translated 17.4 million Leave votes into justification for whatever Leave may or may not have been up to.

    So, probably, opponents of Brexit have had to ‘look forward, not back’ having made a judgement that any claims about the legitimacy of the Referendum would be used as evidence that they were just bad losers and conspiracy theorists. It won’t come out until after Brexit is binned, if at all.

  187. 187
    Cheap Jim says:

    @NotMax: “It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr Gandhi, a seditious middle temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half-naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organising and conducting a defiant campaign of civil disobedience, to parley on equal terms with the representative of the king-emperor.” Winston S Churchill.

    Let’s not forget where the lines are.

  188. 188
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: Good.

  189. 189
    JWR says:

    @Tony Jay:

    What? No! I couldn’t do that! Betty just wants to use the ‘Why we ain’t Exited Brexit’ comment to explain to Americans how we Brits aren’t total nutters.

    Heck, I’ve known you guys were nuts from the day you elected Theresa May, (or Tony Blair, or David Cameron, or John Major, or Maggie Thatcher, even!) But Brexit was the last damn straw!

    In any case, I saved your comments from last night, (as I’ve saved others), in its own doc for future reference, and look forward to it being FP’d.

  190. 190
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @RandomMonster: No. No car and no friends who had one and were interested in that type of excursion.

  191. 191
    NotMax says:

    @Cheap Jim

    Oh for corn’s sake, no one was painting him as a role model. It was a nod to an apropos quote (which yours is not).

  192. 192
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @lamh36: Also, I’ve believed that a failed impeachment would be worse than no impeachment at all. Impeachment freezes everything else and makes it partisan- whereas investigations can continue until there’s a reason to stop.

    Also such a move requires a Congress that’s not busily running against itself. The Republicans had theirs in 1998, when presumably any Republican running in 2000 would be immune from any potential blowback from the impeachment. And if someone wasn’t even in Congress at all, they would be even more immune.

  193. 193
    Jay says:

    @Tony Jay:

    You’ve had a bunch of investigations with huge fines and censuring, there’s an ongoing criminal investigation,……… and yet,


    The Guardian and the Independent mention it from time to time, but I’ve gotten more info on it from Canadian blogs than UK ones.

    One would think that it’s a Brexit angle that Remainers would at least mention from time to time.

  194. 194
    Raoul says:

    @Adam L Silverman: This is just SCIENtology.

  195. 195
    Tony Jay says:


    It’s true, we have terrible, terrible taste in…. well, everything.

    Makes bitching and moaning about it easier, and strangely satisfying. 8-)

  196. 196
    Jeffro says:

    I know it’s a stretch to read anything at all into this, but I am getting this mental picture of the SC’s investigation as a kind of insurance policy – necessary, given the president*s actions, of course – but something that would hopefully get some sort of investigation going to slow the trumpov crime cartel down…
    …and they managed to keep it alive, to get Sessions to recuse, Rosenstein to hang in there…
    …and then, the Dems won in 2018 and now have their own investigations going…
    …and naturally the state investigations of all kinds are up and running, trumpov & co will never outrun those tax/fraud trials.

    So rather than go the extra, incendiary step of indicting Jr and Jared, Mueller hands it all off to the various state agencies and AGs and whomever, drops this report that implicates the whole organization (accurately) as corrupt, and goes, “ok, Congress, your call”

  197. 197
    zhena gogolia says:

    I made the mistake of turning on PBS before Midsomer. Judy Woodruff just asked some idiot named Carrie Johnson what it meant that certain people hadn’t been indicted. She said something like, “Well, yes, and a lot of people wondered why Hillary Clinton hadn’t been indicted even though she did, as Comey said, a lot of bad things.”

  198. 198
    zhena gogolia says:


    The Maude translation edited by Amy Mandelker, with the Russian alongside. I have to read what the students are reading.

  199. 199
    Aleta says:

    ErikWemple @ErikWemple
    We are in the midst of one of the great experiments in human history: How long can cable news talk about a document that it doesn’t have?

    James Fallows @JamesFallows

Replying to @ErikWemple


    Olivia Nuzzi @Olivianuzzi

    Hmm my sources say nobody seems to know what the hell is going on

  200. 200
    debbie says:

    Well, I’m depressed. While listening to BBC coverage of New Zealand (funerals, the Prime Minister’s words, women wearing hijabs in solidarity, and Maori haka) and had the sad realization that New Zealand has more of the American spirit than America does at this moment.

  201. 201
    NotMax says:

    As the late, great political reporter Jack Germond lamented, “We’re not paid to say ‘I don’t know. ‘”

  202. 202
    JWR says:

    @zhena gogolia: Oh God! I’d forgotten that The Snooze Hour is on in a bit. Wonder what Dumb & Dumber will have to say about all this?

  203. 203
    Tony Jay says:


    Oh you’re not wrong, it’s just that over here the lies told by Leave are ‘both sided’ by pointing out that the Tory fuckwits fronting Remain also made claims that, while nowhere near being lies, were not exactly iron-glad certainties. And the Leave campaign scattered like cockroaches once the campaign was over, they didn’t become the national Government.

    Put it this way. If there hadn’t been a Mueller investigation shadowing Trump’s regime and digging into the shit that happened with the magical power of suopena, how hard and long do you think the Democrats would have gone after the whole collusion angle? Would the Media have given it time of day or used it as a club to beat the sad losers? Would any of the people involved seen a single day in court?

    I don’t think so.

  204. 204
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Y’all about to be heavily disappointed. That’s all I have to say.

    PF37 +stopped counting

  205. 205
    Mary G says:

    @Tony Jay: Your comments have been so helpful, because every time I read about Brexit, it’s WTF are they doing? You explain it better than the newspapers here.

  206. 206
    eemom says:

    @Tony Jay:

    I’ll say this for y’all: as far as I can tell, there is literally nobody in the UK (or anywhere else) who still supports Theresa May….much less any rabid, armed to the teeth legion of Maytards who would kiss her ass even as she shits on their face, like what we’ve got here.

    Much as May may suck, she’s still not even in the same ballpark as trump — and yet here we are, facing a serious threat that he might be reelected.

    NO other country can be as fucked up as that. It’s not possible.

  207. 207
    lamh36 says:

    what does “principle conclusions” mean Adam.

    13m13 minutes ago
    What a joke. Trump ousted Sessions just so Barr could control the process. The idea that people should accept a written summary from Barr is absurd.

  208. 208
    lamh36 says:

    7m7 minutes ago
    Here’s the first lawsuit filed seeking the public release of Mueller’s report

  209. 209
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    Don’t go to Twitter tonight. Nothing but “the fix is in”, or disappointment that Trump isn’t doing a perp walk. First of all, it’s too soon, especially if no one knows what’s in the Report. Also, it occurred to me that there’s an institutional aversion to even looking like interfering with an election. Trying Trump isn’t something that can be done in a few days. Or Ivanka. Or Trump Jr. Mueller going down that road looks like that, especially as days go into weeks. Leave that stuff to state, local, and lower level investigators who aren’t running for office, and to Congress who can at least call witnesses.

  210. 210
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @PsiFighter37: how was your Atlanta B-J meet up?

  211. 211
    Tony Jay says:

    @Mary G:

    You’re very welcome. Fingers crossed we’ll stumble drunkenly into a national rejection of the whole Brexit nonsense and wake the next morning feeling somehow spectacular.

    Yes, I have been drinking. It’s Friday.

  212. 212
    JWR says:

    @Mary G:

    @Tony Jay: … You explain it better than the newspapers here.

    Hear, here! This is why I always look forward to TJ’s comments.

  213. 213
    Tony Jay says:


    Translate May to McConnell and Brexit to Trump and see if it makes more sense.

  214. 214
    Ruckus says:

    I started out with a diatribe about our social fabric and that’s really not helping. We aren’t NZ in part because of the size of the country and our population. I live in LA county and we have a population of over twice that of New Zealand and a land mass almost 21 times smaller. It’s like it’s a different world. My sister asked me what I liked about my 3 week motorcycle trip there and I started naming off all the sights and ended up saying, “It’s the people.” Just a lot more serene, friendly. If I stopped to read a map, people would stop to make sure I wasn’t lost and could they help. Here they honk at you and tell you to get the fuck out of their way.

  215. 215
    JWR says:

    @lamh36: From your link, or from the preceding report:

    One person told CNN “we won” and that the campaign has been absolved because there weren’t any charges related to conspiracy or obstruction.

    “Zero indictments means we’re clear,” the source said. The source also said it’s an embarrassment for Democrats.

    One White House official added “the fat lady has sung.”

    Good grief! This has already been floated as a possible Trump defense in these here comments just today. Well, it ain’t over, and that fat lady has yet to *publicly* sing. Hell, we’re just getting started.

  216. 216
    Ruckus says:

    This is the reason that I don’t join in. I can read/lurk as much as I want without the possibility of making an ass of myself. Besides I have BJ for that.

  217. 217
  218. 218
    Plato says:

    Release just the principal conclusions? After all these months of drama? WTF?

  219. 219
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @JWR: So… it’s a great triumph that nobody in the administration was indicted for wrongdoing after the inauguration, in an investigation into stuff that happened BEFORE the inauguration?

  220. 220
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Didn’t happen. Nobody expressed interest.

  221. 221
    JWR says:

    @Plato: No, don’t get depressed! Not yet! Just reading this thread should tell you that this is just one of many investigations, investigations for which Trump has no ability to pardon. So calm down, and keep reading BJ and accompanying comment threads. You’ll feel much better. ;-)

    PS. I think you missed a closing > in your comment.

  222. 222
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @PsiFighter37: despite my nym, I wasn’t even in Georgia. Maybe next time.

  223. 223
    JWR says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Yep, that seems to be their argument, such as it is.

  224. 224
    JWR says:

    @JWR: That comment was directed to AliceBlue, not to Plato, just in case I caused any confusion. (Hey, can someone fix AliceBlue’s comment? There’s a missing closing tag.)

  225. 225
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @JWR: It’s similar to a tactic that the administration keeps using–persuade everyone in the conversation to reduce the whole galaxy of corruption here to a single charge of something nebulous called “collusion”, then assert that there wasn’t any so everyone is as pure as the driven snow. Here we have gloating that there were no indictments for something that the investigation wasn’t about in the first place.

  226. 226
    AliceBlue says:

    @JWR: Thanks. I don’t know how I messed up that comment.

    I realize that there is much more to come, more investigations, etc. It’s just disheartening to see the media reaction, although I shouldn’t be surprised.

  227. 227
    Hob says:

    @Bobby Thomson: It clearly wasn’t finished.
    @Bobby Thomson: he effectively was [fired].

    What’s your basis for those statements?

  228. 228
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JWR: I’ve been trying for five minutes, I have no idea what she did to that thing. And less idea how to fix it.

  229. 229
    Brickley Paiste says:


    First, I admit I ain’t got sources or hard facts on any of this, but …

    Didn’t we see a filing the past week or so stating that Gates was continuing to cooperate in providing information and isn’t the Foreign-company-fighting-Mueller’s-subpoena still in the courts. And given public information, it seems there was ample grounds to prosecute Don Jr, Kushner, and a couple of others in at least perjury. And didn’t Mueller’s office make a very rare public statement in the past 10 or 15 days saying that reports that they were wrapping up were incorrect? Why make that statement if the conclusion was in sight. So in that sense it seems incomplete to me.

    But, indeed, maybe that information has been handed off to SDNY or someone else and they’re going to announce indictments next week or something.

  230. 230
    Raven says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Fuck It And Drive On.

  231. 231
    JWR says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Hmm. I looked at the source, noticed the missing > and thought it would be a quick fix. Oh well. What Ruckus just said. ;-)

    ETA: FIDO!

  232. 232
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Raven: Pretty much.

  233. 233
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JWR: I’m gonna go watch TV and play with the four foots. You all try to stay out of moderation while I’m gone.

  234. 234
    Steeplejack says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Thanks. Always looking for tips on good translations. Back in the day it was all Constance Garnett.

  235. 235
    MomSense says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    I think they asked for a 60 day extension at the Gates sentencing just this week because there is a grand jury convened

  236. 236
    zhena gogolia says:


    Ann Dunnigan is good, but I think it’s pretty much out of print.

    ETA: I like Constance Garnett too, but did she do War and Peace?

  237. 237
    zhena gogolia says:

    Wow, I guess she did. I never read that one.

  238. 238
    AliceBlue says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t know what I did either. I’m sorry!

  239. 239
    Brickley Paiste says:


    Yeah, I think that’s right. I am not a defeatist here – there are plenty of good things that could still happen – but it does seem that the report was, at a minimum rushed. Feels that way given the expectations they were setting up over the past couple of weeks. No doubt they foresaw anything that Barr could do and took appropriate precautions so even if my lingering suspicions are right – that Barr pushed them to conclude or be disbanded – that might not really matter at all.

    That’s the problem with gaslighting, you start to doubt even the obvious and when there is uncertainty, it just grows exponentially.

  240. 240
    James E Powell says:

    Of course CNN and the rest of the press/media will go all Revelations 13:4 over Trump. They love the guy. Even or maybe especially the people who go on every night and rant against him. He’s money in a way that Barack Obama never was and Hillary Clinton never could be. They are going to work very hard to get him re-elected so we have to work harder than we ever have before to make sure that doesn’t happen. There’s really nothing else we can do.

  241. 241
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Hob: it clearly wasn’t finished because read the filings and look at the recent statements about them not being done. He effectively was fired because there’s no reason to file a “final” report when you’re not done unless you were ordered to.

  242. 242
    Steeplejack says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’m not saying I liked Constance Garnett. It’s just that when I was reading the Russians in college it seemed like she owned the franchise. And even then (early ’70s) the translations seemed a little fusty. Dunno if she actually did War and Peace. She just springs to mind when I think “Russian translation.”

    Sort of like I also intend to go back and read Proust, now that he has been released from the bondage of Scott Moncrieff. But there are competing translations now!

  243. 243
    NotMax says:


    Caught heck from a teacher for using what was then a fresh off the presses new translation of Beowulf for a book report back when.

  244. 244
    Steeplejack says:


    What was the objection? Not the same one used in class, so not a common reference for everyone?

  245. 245
    NotMax says:


    IIRC it was more like he hadn’t read it yet so could not fairly judge my report about it.

  246. 246
    MomSense says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Yup. I think Barr shut it down.

  247. 247
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    From the NY Times article

    Republicans immediately seized upon the news that no more indictments are expected as a vindication of Mr. Trump and his campaign. Those reports “confirm what we’ve known all along: There was never any collusion with Russia,” Representative Steve Scalise of Louisiana, the second-highest-ranking House Republican, said in a statement

    Sounds more like clutching at straws to me.

  248. 248
    Aleta says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:
    They seemed pretty nervous for people who knew all along. Giulliani, Trump, DonJ …

  249. 249
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    I also am sure that Barr shut it down. But as our legal experts here have pointed out for months, Mueller has always known that the order to kill it was going to come sooner or later from some political appointee and he put his investigatory horcruxes in place long ago in various states and jurisdictions.

    So I guess we’re going to see those investigations waking up by Monday?

    For those who prefer more classical references, perhaps the Hydra makes a good analogy. You cut off its head and it sprouts nine new ones.

    I guess I’m saying I’m not worried yet that these clowns are going to get off scot free. The many shoes that are going to drop (to torture yet another analogy) are already 90% of the way to the ground and Barr is not going to be able to intercept them all.

Comments are closed.