Open Thread: Warren / Buttigieg 2020!


(I read this anecdote to my Norwegian-American Spousal Unit, linguistics major, who replied, “And nobody ever bothers to learn Maltese… “)

Seriously, though… I was kinda meh about ‘Mayor Pete’ at first, but his campaign is growing on me. Presumably Buttigeig (mayor, Navy vet, served in Afghanistan) and Warren would complement each other’s skill sets. And as much as we all despise the electability argument, there’s something to be said for the every-four-years voter appeal of “Your Favorite Teacher + That Nice Neighborhood Eagle Scout” as a ticket, yes?

The Navy veteran with a hard-to-pronounce name, from a city small enough to fit every resident in a college football stadium, seems to be winning the argument at the moment. Weeks after declaring his interest in challenging President Trump, he has become, if not exactly well-known, a subject of interest for many Democratic voters, buoyed by a breakout performance at a CNN town hall on March 10…

Even in a Democratic field full of nontraditional candidates, Buttigieg stands out in many ways. A military veteran who deployed to Afghanistan, he is openly gay, and his husband, Chasten, maintains a lively Twitter presence. He would be the youngest president in history. No mayor has ever ascended directly to the presidency, let alone from a city of about 102,000…

Some Democrats say privately Buttigieg may not be prepared to be president, given his youth and that he’s never served in national or even statewide office. (Buttigieg is a decade younger than O’Rourke and was not born when former vice president Joe Biden was first elected to the Senate.) Trump’s tenure, they say, has soured Democrats on the notion of inexperienced candidates jumping into the presidency.

Buttigieg responds that, having been South Bend mayor since 2012, he has longer government experience than Trump and more executive credentials than Pence, who was Indiana’s governor for four years…


Plum Line: We’re seeing a rise in white nationalism and serious anti-immigrant fervor in some parts of the country, and also globally. Are you going to be addressing this in a comprehensive way? It occurs to me that the 2020 Democrats should go bigger on these issues.

Buttigieg: Absolutely. We need to recognize 21st-century threats. Cybersecurity, climate security and security in the face of white nationalism are all clear and present security threats that folks on the other side of the aisle either refuse to acknowledge or decline to do anything about. It’s extremely important for Democrats to very vocally talk about those threats.

Plum Line: How do you view white nationalism as a policy problem?

Buttigieg: In the narrow tactical sense, it’s something we need to stay ahead of and monitor the way you would any kind of violent radical movement from abroad.

There’s a deeper phenomenon going on. As we see dislocation and disruption in certain parts of the country, from rural areas to my home in the industrial Midwest, and in the economy, this leads to a kind of disorientation and loss of community and identity. That void can be filled through constructive and positive things, like community involvement or family. And it can be filled by destructive things, like white identity politics…

Plum Line: Can you talk about your broader sense of the role that this type of economic vulnerability plays in creating the conditions for the kind of communitarian collapse that creates an opening for sentiments like white nationalism to flourish?

Buttigieg: I don’t want this to slide into the idea that some of these racist behaviors can be excused because they can be connected to economic issues. But I do think it’s easier to fall into these forms of extremism when you don’t know where your place is.

There’s this very basic human desire for belonging that historically has often been supplied by the workplace. It’s been based on the presumption of a lifelong relationship with a single employer. This isn’t just a blue-collar phenomenon.

The sense of belonging can be very powerful, and we’re very fragile without it. It’s not accidental that some areas that have seen the most disruption in our social and economic life are those that are most likely to produce a lot of domestic extremists…

Balloon Juice special supplement:






286 replies
  1. 1
    zhena gogolia says:

    Rhodes Scholar too.

  2. 2
    sempronia says:

    That’s Norwegian, Maltese, Spanish, Italian, French, Arabic, and Dari, according to Wikipedia.

  3. 3
    Neil Hudelson says:

    Lurker here, but someone who has had a fairly up close view of Mayor Pete. I’m going to post what I said over at Outside The Beltway:

    (Full disclosure: while I’m sure he couldn’t pick me out of a line up, I’ve worked with Mayor Pete on a few issues and I’m fully aware of the ‘hometown hero’ effect. I try to compensate for that.):

    While it’s true that he’s not likely to win the nomination, I would say that’s true about every person running right now, the only difference is the degree to which they are unlikely to win.

    What Pete has going for him is:

    -He’s a progressive, unabashedly so, but speaks about progressive values instead of wonky policies. This approach is what enabled him to win a commanding bipartisan victory in his mayoral run. While winning a mayor’s race truly isn’t as difficult as winning POTUS, that he did so in blood red Indiana in a fairly conservative city, with 80% of the vote, shouldn’t be overlooked. Countless articles have been written about whether Democrats should try to invigorate the base, or try for the swing voters. Pete’s campaign is predicated on the idea that you can do both.

    -He appears to have the best social media skills of the declared candidates so far. Five years ago, even I would’ve scoffed that this would be important, but I think we all agree that it certainly is important now.

    -When the dude speaks, he comes off as Presidential. That is, his youth isn’t going to be the weakness some predict.

    -I’ve said it before, but he has that Obama “je ne sais quoi.” Both Obama and Axelrod recognized this early on, and while Axelrod is so far neutral in this race, he’s been spending an awful lot of time in South Bend.

    -Regarding homophobia: It’s true that this will be an issue, but the people for whom this will be a huge issue are conservative evangelical voters who are not going to be swayed to vote for any Dem, period. Many identity groups are a bit swayable–witness the more socially conservative voters who backed Bernie because they didn’t want to die due to lack of healthcare coverage. But, in my experience, the least swayable are evangelical voters. Write them off. Among younger (under 45ish) voters in Trump country, his military experience is going to help neutralize latent homophobia.

  4. 4
    MattF says:

    I’m just waiting for Trump to make an ugly joke about his name.

  5. 5
    Jerry says:

    Can we just put this on a tape loop and play it wherever Wilmer goes?

    I don’t want this to slide into the idea that some of these racist behaviors can be excused because they can be connected to economic issues.

  6. 6
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    He’s a terrific writer, too! I like everything I’ve seen about him so far. Warren or Harris could do a lot worse than to pick Buttigieg as her running mate.

  7. 7
    zhena gogolia says:

    Seierstad wrote the book about Breivik.

  8. 8
    feebog says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    I had not realized he became Mayor by such a wide margin. That is both astounding and impressive. He certainly is more articulate than O’Rourke and seems to have thought trough his policy positions quite thoroughly. Regardless of executive experience, 36 is pretty young to become President. However, Obama did it when he was in his mid-40s, so maybe not. He certainly will be a standout on the debate stage..

  9. 9
    Tom Levenson says:

    I’m getting very Mayor Pete-curious.

  10. 10
    rikyrah says:

    Don’t know the last name, but he tries to answer questions, which is a plus.

    The Norwegian story is a cool story.

  11. 11
    Brickley Paiste says:

    Buttigiegmentum!

  12. 12
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    I agree with everything you say, and I’ve only become acquainted with this guy in the last month or so.

    I’m immune to Beto, I was leaning toward Harris, but the inspiration factor is huge with Buttigieg.

    ETA: I would crawl over broken glass to vote for Beto if he’s the nominee.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    The newly released Economic Report of the President, besides being a 700-page exercise in lies, damned lies, etc., was prepared by interns including John Cleese, Jabba the Hutt, Aunt May, Peter Parker, and Bruce Wayne. (See p. 624.)

    Also, I’m all in for Warren/Buttigieg ’20. Or Harris/Buttigieg. Or Buttigieg/Jabba the Hutt, if need be.

  15. 15
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    I love the thing in his video about how we can’t talk about “again,” there is no “again” (subtle dig at MAGA) — we have to look forward.

  16. 16
    Keith G says:

    Mayor Pete is the real deal. That likely means that he has no chance, but we would be fortunate if he is one of the finalists making his case to Democrats this time next year.

  17. 17
    Betty Cracker says:

    There’s a Buttigieg interview in Esquire today here. It’s getting a lot of attention due to what some folks are taking as a slam on Hillary Clinton (I don’t agree that it is). But what struck me is that he gave an honest answer on the reparations question, which most candidates are ducking in various ways:

    Would you support reparations to compensate for America’s history of slavery?

    I’ve never seen a specific, workable proposal. But what I do think is convincing is the idea that we have to be intentional about addressing or reversing harms and inequities that didn’t just happen on their own. The cleanest way I can think of to do it are through policies. So we know in housing and criminal justice, to some extent in basic economic policies around wages and taxation, that some policy improvements that are also the right thing to do will have a disproportionate benefit to people of color. I think that’s one way that we can be intentional and make a difference on this. I’ve just not seen a cash transfer mechanism that’s been laid out that you can envision working that most people would think is fair.

    That last sentence is critical. The media is going to be all over every Democratic candidate on this issue because it has the potential to divide the party — and sink our eventual nominee. Every one of the candidates needs to come up with a good answer.

  18. 18
    chopper says:

    so he’s young, smart, writes his own books, speaks 8 languages, is a vet…yeah, he’s the anti-trump all right.

  19. 19
    jc says:

    Will someone please phonetically spell out how to say his last name. Thanks. I’m still struggling with AOC. And who is “Wilmer” again? I’d like to see a Warren/Katie Porter ticket.

  20. 20

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Putin won’t rest till America is the punch line of a bad joke and our President and his party are his main primary enablers. Peter Parker and Jabba the Hutt are laughing at us, along with Putin.

  21. 21
    aliasofwestgate says:

    Hufflepuffs are badgers, don’t let the easygoing hard worker fool you. 😁
    They hide some nasty claws and teeth. Which is a good thing! That said, yeah this guy has my attention. Being a VP is also ambassadorial and those many languages would be invaluable.

  22. 22
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    He’s absolutely right and this is why TNC and other advodates of “well let’s just appoint a commission” are being cowardly.

    The idea that descendents of slaves are owed a great debt by this Country and its other citizens really isn’t debatable among progressives. The mechanism is the issue and purported intellectuals like TNC need to stop ducking the question and face it head on.

  23. 23
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @jc: His own pronunciation guide is “BOOT-edge-edge.” BUDDHA-judge is also close enough.

    ETA: Wilmer is a s*cialist Senator from Vermont.

  24. 24
    germy says:

    @jc:

    And who is “Wilmer” again?

    It’s what Fred Flintstone yells after being locked out of his house.

  25. 25
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    intellectuals like TNC need to stop ducking the question and face it head on

    You go, Pasty! You telling a black man how to address the major formative disaster of black life in America, and its aftermath, is going really well. Please proceed.

  26. 26
    tobie says:

    I like candidates who expose their thinking process. Buttigieg does this, as does Beto in my opinion. Here’s him thinking through plant closures and how the federal govt can use its muscle to keep manufacturing here. It’s a long answer, not a crisp one, but based on an effort to synthesize a lot of information. We need a transformational President after the clusterfuck in which we find ourselves. This means we will need something like 60% of the population to opt in to such transformation. So, I’m looking for candidates who can not only move the needle but also lift the public with them. I really don’t know how much time we have left to prevent us from becoming an oligopoly.

  27. 27
    H.E.Wolf says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    When the dude speaks, he comes off as Presidential.

    Mr Buttigieg has many great qualities, and based on what I know thus far, I admire him. I wish him success in his personal and professional life.

    That said, I’m eager to hear “When [the woman] speaks, she comes off as Presidential” as often as we hear that said of a man.

    I’m eager to hear that said about a non-white person as often as we hear it about a white person.

    I’m eager to hear it said about an experienced non-white and/or non-male politician as often as we hear it said about a white man with little or no elected political experience.

    It’s interesting to notice who is granted credibility with few credentials, and who is denied credibility with many credentials. I’m chagrined when I notice these biases in myself. I’m working to improve.

    [ETA to tip my hat to SuibhanDuinne for her much more succinct and gracefully expressed comment.]

  28. 28
    Kraux Pas says:

    Pete Buttigieg speaks seven languages and our current President can barely speak one.

    Gives Trump too much credit.

  29. 29
    Gravenstone says:

    @jc: “Boot-edge-edge” appears to be the most common approach to it that I’ve seen.

  30. 30
    donnah says:

    Mayor Pete is my favorite. I’ve seen his interviews and he’s smart, articulate, quick on his feet and very confident. I don’t know what his chances are down the road, but I would vote for him in a heartbeat. Also. a Warren fan, too, so I could see them as a ticket.

  31. 31
    Brachiator says:

    I’ve really been busy with work, but I am going to try to hunker down and watch the Warren town hall and read the Mayor Pete Esquire interview tonight or tomorrow.

    I still don’t have any favorites among the candidates. Minor exceptions: I still don’t like Sanders and Biden is too damn old. He is looking old and worn down. He’s done. I don’t want him.

    I would love to see Mayor Pete and Pence in a VP debate.

    @Neil Hudelson:

    -Regarding homophobia: It’s true that this will be an issue, but the people for whom this will be a huge issue are conservative evangelical voters who are not going to be swayed to vote for any Dem, period.

    It is possible that a number of men of all ethnic groups would refuse to vote for a Democratic ticket that included an openly gay male. It would not just be an issue for evangelicals.

    But then again, a majority of voters might just be tired of all the BS and do the right thing if they think that Mayor Pete is a worthy candidate.

  32. 32
    rikyrah says:

    @germy:

    And who is “Wilmer” again?

    It’s what Fred Flintstone yells after being locked out of his house.

    LMAO

  33. 33
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: You missed Mostafa Kemal, Kathryn Janeway, John Snow, Steve Rogers, and Arjun Ramani. This last one, I think, is an attempt to get Arjuna from the Gita in there, but I’m sure Schrodinger’s Cat will be along to confirm or deny.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/ERP-2019.pdf

    Student interns provide invaluable help with research projects, day-to-day
    operations, and fact-checking. Interns during the previous year were Brittany
    Amano, Jackson Bailey, Rana Bansal, Christian Brown, Lydia Byrom, John
    Cleese
    , Alexis Cirrotti, Jesse Dennis, Mackenzie Dickhudt, Adam Donoho, Troy
    Durie, Michael Everett, Isabelle Holland, Wesley Huang, J. T. Hutt, Kathryn
    Janeway, Mostafa Kamel,
    Ayesha Karnik, David Laszcz, John Leo, Eugene Liu,
    Kacey Manlove, Aunt May, Kevin Nguyen, Katherine Olsson, Sarah Park, Peter
    Parker
    , Pragya Parthasarathy, Arjun Ramani, Kriyana Reddy, Steve Rogers, Jake Rosen, Joshua Siegel, John Snow, Nirali Trivedi, Bruce Wayne, Amanda Wilcox, and Jacob Ziemba.

  34. 34
    rikyrah says:

    @H.E.Wolf:

    That said, I’m eager to hear “When [the woman] speaks, she comes off as Presidential” as often as we hear that said of a man.

    I’m eager to hear that said about a non-white person as often as we hear it about a white person.

    I’m eager to hear it said about an experienced non-white and/or non-male politician as often as we hear it said about a white man with little or no elected political experience.

    It’s interesting to notice who is granted credibility with few credentials, and who is denied credibility with many credentials. I’m chagrined when I notice these biases in myself. I’m working to improve.

    clap clap clap clap

  35. 35
    tobie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Wait…is this for real???

  36. 36
    Gravenstone says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    BUDDHA-judge is also close enough.

    I find it amusing that the guidance for that pronunciation comes from his husband.

  37. 37
    Princess says:

    A Hufflepuff president would be very soothing, I think.

    A Warren/Buttigieg ticket sounds great. So does Harrris/Castro.

  38. 38
    JPL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s what I think. Have you heard about the possibility of a Biden/Abrams ticket? Gotta say I’d be disappointed in her ruling out everything else.

  39. 39
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @sempronia:

    That’s Norwegian, Maltese, Spanish, Italian, French, Arabic, and Dari, according to Wikipedia.

    That’s impressive, but are we ready for a president who doesn’t speak English?

  40. 40
    tobie says:

    @Princess: My dream is Abrams/O’Rourke or O’Rourke/Abrams.

  41. 41
    Ohio Mom says:

    @jc: We got started calling him Wilmer during the last election season. Typing his real name would attract the worst sort of Berniebot trolls. They never caught on to the code so Wilmer it stayed.

    On another note, I think I heard that Buttigieg was in Naval Intelligence, which would explain why he knows Dari. Or maybe it is the other way around, you’d put someone so adept at learning language in Intelligence.

    I like the idea of a Warren/Buttigieg ticket. I could imagine them having good chemistry together.

    Though almost every non-Trump, non-Bernie combo sounds good to me. I am quite fickle at this point.

  42. 42
    wmd says:

    He received my second contribution. Elizabeth got the first.

    I see his campaign as one that will raise the game for everyone. His strategic goal is to get more name recognition and a fundraising list for a senate campaign in 2022, with a future presidential campaign in 2028.

  43. 43
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    I think that TNC is enough of an adult that he will survive my post.

    You might want to give some thought to what your post says your true estimation of TNC.

  44. 44
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: Yep, the link is on the White House externally facing unclassified system.

  45. 45

    This last one, I think, is an attempt to get Arjuna from the Gita in there, but I’m sure Schrodinger’s Cat will be along to confirm or deny.

    I have no idea. Arjun is a fairly common pan-Indian name. Ramani sounds like he is Sindhi. Sounds like a real person to me.

  46. 46
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    When the dude speaks, he comes off as Presidential. That is, his youth isn’t going to be the weakness some predict.

    Considering the whole problem is elders hanging on way past their sale by date like Trump, youth is a positive.

  47. 47

    @JPL: I hope she’s too smart to do this.

  48. 48
    germy says:

    You can be old enough to enlist today and not have even been alive for 9/11. Congress needs to reassert its war powers because we've got to put an end to the forever wars. pic.twitter.com/73rVzenwCB— Pete Buttigieg (@PeteButtigieg) March 20, 2019

  49. 49
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Brickley Paiste: It’s not enough to identify a problem or promote a conversation. One my have all the answers to solve it. Eh, comrade?

  50. 50
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You’re right – my connection to pop culture is attenuated at best, plus I’ve more often seen Atatürk’s name spelled “Mustafa Kemal.” I wonder if someone was making an extra-super-clever play on “must have a camel”?

    They misspelled Jon Snow. Arjun Ramani appears to be a real person.

    Ugh. I feel icky for giving this much thought to this childish, creepy nonsense.

  51. 51
    Princess says:

    @tobie: I almost added that one too.

  52. 52
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ohio Mom: It isn’t a guarantee that he’d know Dari. Most military intelligence professionals don’t have the language skills for where they’re sent – they’re not regionally aligned language wise. So they work with a variety of language folks. From uniformed personnel who are interpreters/translators (09L) to cryptologic linguists (35P) to DOD and Service civilians who are bilingual/multilingual, to host country national interpreters. It’s possible, since he’s clearly got the talent for languages, that he’s a crypto-linguist.

  53. 53
    Raven says:

    @jc: God i Hate that shit. I’m surprised it wasn’t that troll bitch who came up with it.

  54. 54
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: That’s why I was not certain and said you’d be around to clarify. We thank you for your support!

  55. 55
    germy says:

    If we want to end the opioid epidemic, we must work to address the root causes of abuse. That’s why @SenCoryGardner and I introduced legislation to limit opioid prescriptions for acute pain to 7 days. Because no one needs a month’s supply for a wisdom tooth extraction.— Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (@gillibrandny) March 15, 2019

    I would've received 7 days of painkillers after my chest was cracked open and bolted back together following heart surgery – and then I would have had to make costly weekly appointments to get more. No one could go for me.
    Your campaign ended today. You just don't know it yet. https://t.co/QLI4gKqkLH
    — Hillary Warned Us (@HillaryWarnedUs) March 20, 2019

  56. 56
    WereBear says:

    @Neil Hudelson: But, in my experience, the least swayable are evangelical voters. Write them off.

    Their particular religious flavor (burnt toast with an undertone of cheap coffee and margarine) creates heads filled with cement and afraid of a marble rye. Absolutely forget about trying to appeal to them: they have their Orange Hero Sandwich already.

  57. 57
    retr2327 says:

    @H.E.Wolf: There is a non-zero possibility you’re misreading this. For Democrats, at least, you’re not going to find many people who are skeptical about the chances of a candidate like Warren or Harris: both are nationally known Senators of a certain age and maturity, and so it’s not necessary to state (with some significant implied surprise) that when Warren or Harris speaks, they come off as potentially Presidential material. It is — at least for most of us here — taken for granted.

    But for a very young, gay mayor of a small Midwest city, there is a surprise factor: you end up thinking to yourself that maybe, just maybe, it’s not as crazy as it seems.

    My two cents, at least. Saw him on Morning Joe this morning and was very impressed. Much more impressive than Beto, to name one, although I certainly loved his reply on the kneeling NFL players.

  58. 58
    Salty Sam says:

    Mayor Pete has steadily grown on me ever since I first became aware of him (several weeks ago). I’m still on the fence re: Harris/Warren, but either one of them running with Mayor Pete would make me swoon.

    And I say that as a big fan of Beto- I canvassed hard for him last year, and yet I was disappointed that he announced he was running. I’m watching media turn him into a joke, an emptyheaded prettyboy, and to be honest, Beto’s non-specific answers don’t help. I was thinking that he’d be a good VP pick for whoever is nominated, but I’m afraid Mayor Pete has taken that slot in my mind.

  59. 59
    Zzyzx says:

    He’s been getting ink in my subculture because it has turned out that he’s a minor Phish fan. We’re all having fun with it.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ohio Mom: This is Sander’s new senior political advisor (the African American woman), seen her with now full blown, out of the closet white supremacist Cassandra Fairbanks who migrated from Sanders to supporting the President.

  61. 61
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Brickley Paiste: Since Coates isn’t running for anything, I don’t give a shit if he talks about payment mechanisms or not. But any Democratic presidential candidate should be prepared to answer it because the media smells blood. I think Warren’s answer was pretty good at the CNN town hall — basically she kicked the can down the road, taking it seriously enough to say it deserves study by Congress but not committing to anything. Buttigieg’s answer was perhaps better, IMO, because he was honest enough to acknowledge the role the perception of fairness by the majority will play in the decision.

  62. 62
    Brachiator says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    The newly released Economic Report of the President, besides being a 700-page exercise in lies, damned lies, etc., was prepared by interns including John Cleese, Jabba the Hutt, Aunt May, Peter Parker, and Bruce Wayne. (See p. 624.)

    Hmmm. Possible ringers:

    John Cleese, J. T. Hutt, Kathryn Janeway, Mostafa Kamel, Kacey Manlove, Aunt May, Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, John Snow, Bruce Wayne

  63. 63

    @Adam L Silverman: Are you mocking me? If they wanted a name from Mahabharata on the lines of Peter Parker or Jabba they could have called themselves Yudhistir Pandu or Duryodhan Kuru.

  64. 64
    tobie says:

    @Princess: The divides in this country are not only haves and have-nots or coastal and central or urban and exurban but also young and old. Old white people (in general) seem terrified about losing their privilege and easily fall prey to nostalgia. Young people realize they likely won’t have any privileges. So there is something important about putting new faces forward. I know Warren is older relative to Harris, Castro, Buttigieg, Beto, but she seems remarkably youthful. I do think some of her political identity was forged in the fires of the culture wars of the 1980s and 1990s but it doesn’t define her, as it does, say, Joe Biden, whom I like but don’t think should run.

    ETA: Forgot Booker and Gillibrand in my list. Sorry.

  65. 65
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ohio Mom: Here’s Sander’s new spokeswoman. She seems nice…

  66. 66
    rikyrah says:

    @retr2327:

    For Democrats, at least, you’re not going to find many people who are skeptical about the chances of a candidate like Warren or Harris: both are nationally known Senators of a certain age and maturity, and so it’s not necessary to state (with some significant implied surprise) that when Warren or Harris speaks, they come off as potentially Presidential material. It is — at least for most of us here — taken for granted.

    Warren has been elected to Statewide office -TWICE.

    California is the 5th largest economy of the WORLD.

    Harris has served as Attorney General and is now a Senator….

    Uh huh
    Uh huh

  67. 67
    Brachiator says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    That’s Norwegian, Maltese, Spanish, Italian, French, Arabic, and Dari, according to Wikipedia.

    That’s impressive, but are we ready for a president who doesn’t speak English?

    Well, we had Dubya and we got Trump….

  68. 68
    rikyrah says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I am quite pleased with watching the receipts being pulled on Bernie’s hires. And, from corners that I didn’t expect. Folks are not playing with him, nor his horrid crew that he has compiled. This isn’t 2016..nobody gives two shyts about walking around their delicate feelings.

    Glad to see many in my

    ‘ LAY WASTE TO THEM’

    corner.

    PS- will be passing on the tweet you just posted.

  69. 69

    @rikyrah: Many of the women in my town who voted for BS in 2016 primaries are either on team Warren or team Harris this year. If he is not in the top two in NH he will be toast.

  70. 70
    zhena gogolia says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Adam was certainly not mocking you.

  71. 71
    Renie says:

    @Raven: OT Raven, Was hoping for some advice from you and any other jackals who do their own home construction work. I have a 30 old wooden porch with all the gingerbread trim and need to replace quite a bit of it. My construction guy recommended PVC but I’ve noticed you can’t get a lot of the nice trim in PVC. I saw online a company that has the trim in Polyethylene and High Density Polyurethane. Do you know anything about these and if they are really low maintenance? Thank you in advance.

  72. 72
    zhena gogolia says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Please let Warren or Harris knock him out early!

  73. 73
    Jeffg166 says:

    @jc: Pete said it’s boot-edge-edge.

  74. 74

    @zhena gogolia:

    We thank you for your support,

    didn’t quite feel like a compliment.

  75. 75
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: No I wasn’t, but I am amenable to requests. I actually put in my original comment that you’d be around to correct my assumption if it was wrong. I put that in there because I correctly reasoned based on past conversations in the comments, that if this was an attempt to subtly slip Arjuna in, you’d be able to confirm that was, indeed, the case. You actually debunked that it was such a subtle attempt. And I appreciate it. Thank you!

    But if you’d like to pick a fight, I’ve got a few minutes.

  76. 76
    smintheus says:

    There’s a deeper phenomenon going on. As we see dislocation and disruption in certain parts of the country, from rural areas to my home in the industrial Midwest, and in the economy, this leads to a kind of disorientation and loss of community and identity.

    I would want to see documentation to back this up. A lot of white supremacists are embedded in their communities, and a lot are living where they grew up. Some are even considered pillars of society. I’m far from convinced that they’re racists because of dislocation, economic or otherwise. They’re racists because they grew up as racists or were socialized as racists. They share a bunch of things in common that have nothing to do with dislocation: they’re stupid, they’re losers, they’re emotionally stunted, they’re violent, they’re misogynistic and bigoted in other ways.

  77. 77
    West of the Rockies says:

    I hope it is Harris. I’d be happy with Warren, too, but Harris/Pete would be awesome. I think her law enforcement background, his military background would be great with independents. Their collective IQ is greater than that of the Republican Senate. They are young, telegenic, eloquent, and optimistic.

  78. 78
    Mart says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Makes me wonder if Wilmer is on Putin’s payroll to divide this country along with Jill Stein and Trump.

  79. 79
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    I agree absolutely that D candidates should have an answer to this and it is almost a litmus test that they be in favor of it. Period.

    My point about TNC is that he is a powerful intellectual voice. He’s said that he raided reparations in the hopes that it would not be laughed at in his lifetime and that he has no opinions or suggestions about how the mechanism should work. Well, events have moved past that. Reparations do not cause laughter on the left and, well, they will never be considered by the right. So the real work is in the details and it’s disappointing to me that TNC thinks his time is better spent writing comic books. He – and anyone else with a platform – needs to keep this conversation moving forward.

  80. 80
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The first time around, I thought Sanders was full of himself and didn’t have the best judgement, but this time around I’m certain he’s absolutely malevolent and full of bad, ulterior motives.

    Is it too much after seeing how the media ignored every warning sign about Trump to hope that someone will expose Sanders? Yeah, dumb question.

  81. 81
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Neil Hudelson: OK, the more I learn about Mayor Pete (which is what I’m going to callhim till I am sure I can pronounce his last name properly), rhe more I like him.

  82. 82
    germy says:

    Health industry lobbyists are posing as “ordinary citizens who don’t want Medicare for All”

    The Partnership for America’s Health Care Future is a lobbying group dedicated to fighting single-payer and even public option health plans, formed by the biggest players in the health insurance industry—pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and health insurers, among others. We don’t know how much money they have, but one of their members, the pharma trade group PhRMA, raised $456 million last year alone, so it’s likely to be quite a lot.

    I receive PAHCF’s press releases, which are frequent. Every so often, they’ll highlight “voices throughout the nation” in a recurring feature they call “WHAT THEY ARE SAYING,” collecting anti-Medicare for All letters to the editor and op-eds from around the country. The strong implication is that these voices are somehow representative of Real Americans who fear Medicare for All, and not just the talking points of an industry-sponsored group.

    https://splinternews.com/look-at-these-absolutely-ordinary-americans-who-hate-me-1833380461

  83. 83
    satby says:

    Well, I just forwarded this post to Mayor Pete’s CoS who I spoke with last week. Along with the request to forward it to the right people in his exploratory committee who can maybe get the mayor to visit here for a chat or a Q&A (forward because he’s got a sharp line drawn between the city business and his political activities). Hope it doesn’t get lot in the deluge of attention Mayor Pete is getting.

  84. 84
    scav says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Altogether too many non-flyover “real” mercan names in that list as well which somehow brings to mind a few drunk blonds giggling over a spinner with “equal opportunity ethnic” names as they fill in their mad-libs report. In no way resmbles the class photos of youngsters we saw earlier.

  85. 85
    The Pale Scot says:

    Shit’s getting real in the UK, Macron and Tusk pretty much said no extension if May plans on just putting the same Act up for a 3rd? 4th? vote. I’ve lost count.
    MPs might be on the verge of understanding out means out, no ponies, no unicorns.Live feed of BBC News that I think doesn’t need a VPN to work.

    Scottish MP stood up in Parliament and said it’s time for Scotland to leave the UK and join their “Irish cousins”.

    Which is my personal fabulism. The Scots leave, and English access to the N.Sea oil and fish leaves also. A Celtic Federation is formed. The Orange order evacuates NI and becomes refugees living in camps in Yorkshire.

  86. 86
    germy says:

    @scav:

    Young republicans: They’re about as funny as a crutch.

  87. 87
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    Hilarious! Page 624 has been summarily removed. It’s just blank now.

    #TheTrollsAreInTheHouse

  88. 88
    Mart says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Is it too much after seeing how the media ignored every warning sign about Trump to hope that someone will expose Sanders? Yeah, dumb question

    The only two modern Presidential candidates who will not release their tax returns. What could go wrong?

  89. 89
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: As I wrote in my post about the 2020 election back at the end of January:
    https://www.balloon-juice.com/2019/01/27/a-preliminary-strategic-cultural-assessment-of-the-us-2020-political-and-election-operating-environment/

    I hope that I’m wrong, but I’m very concerned that when Senator Sanders does not get the Democratic nomination, and I think that will become very clear very early on in the primaries next year because the US in 2019 is a very different world than the US in 2015 and 2016, that his supporters and his monomaniacal focus on economics issues, coupled with his ego, will drive him to run as an independent. And if he doesn’t, Nina Turner will shiv him and do it herself. I’m actually quite surprised that she hasn’t done this already. I honestly didn’t think she had this much restraint. Sanders won’t get the nomination because of the internal evolution and generational changes within the multi-ethnic and multi-religious coalitions that comprise the Democratic Party. A lot of his platform was incorporated into the broader Democratic platform in 2016 when Secretary Clinton was the nominee and more of it has been incorporated since then. At this point he should declare victory for his ideas and try to function as a senior mentor/the grand old sage. Unfortunately, I don’t think he’s wired that way. He also won’t get the nomination because his trusted lieutenants, for lack of a better term, are even more abrasive than he is. No one paying attention to the Democratic Party’s internal politics has forgotten that neither he, nor his most senior and vocal agents, will take yes for an answer. The behavior of Turner, Konst, and several others at the various DNC events and meetings over the past 18 months or so was unprofessional, unpleasant to watch, hear, and read about, and, frankly, way out of line. What little welcome they had, they’ve worn it out. Sanders, no matter what he does, has the potential to function as a super spoiler for the Democrats in 2020. Think Jill Stein’s effect on the electoral college on steroids. And if he decides he’s going to be a team player and not do so, his trusted agents won’t play ball and you’ll have the same problem regardless. And we can now add Congresswoman Gabbard to the potential spoilers category emanating from Sanders orbit.

  90. 90
    germy says:

    @Jeffg166:

    Pete said it’s boot-edge-edge.

    I can’t figure out where the accent goes. BOOT-edge-edge? boot-EDGE-edge or boot-edge-EDGE?

  91. 91
    The Dangerman says:

    @Neil Hudelson:

    ….but the people for whom this will be a huge issue are conservative evangelical voters who are not going to be swayed to vote for any Dem, period.

    True, but it would be nice if more than a few of them stayed home on Election Day.

  92. 92

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you for answering my question. And I am glad to be of help.

    ETA: We do have disagreements on some issues, T’s generals and the definition of stochastic come to mind However, I have nothing personal against you nor do I want to pick a fight with you.

  93. 93
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Damn! Wish I’d screenshotted it. I’m sure someone has, though.

  94. 94
    Shana says:

    @Brachiator: re: Mayor Pete and Pence at a debate – I think I might pay to see Pence if Mayor Pete came out and gave him a hug at the beginning instead of a handshake. I know, I know, but wouldn’t it be great to see it?

  95. 95
    Princess says:

    @tobie: Yes, I agree with all of that. I also think that, like a lot of women, Warren got her career started slowly and that helps her think like someone younger. And spending a lot of time teaching people in their twenties can help you understand what is important to them. I get a very tired grumpy vibe from Biden and Bernie that I don’t get from Warren.

  96. 96
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @The Pale Scot:

    The Scots leave, and English access to the N.Sea oil and fish leaves also.

    So, truly, “so long, and thanks for all the fish.” I’m eagerly anticipating the big reveal that the rest of the Hitchhiker’s Guide is also a documentary, not fiction.

  97. 97
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jeffg166:

  98. 98
    Gin & Tonic says:

    I haven’t been keeping up – what is the ethno-linguistic origin of his surname?

  99. 99
    rikyrah says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Their collective IQ is greater than that of the Republican Senate.

    BWA HA HA HA HAH A HA HA HA

  100. 100
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @germy: Yeah, I think this is so ill thought out that it’s embarrassing. She’s done. There are a lot of poorly devised plans for this. Locally they are trying to push legislation to have long term patients with chronic pain to be transitioned off opioids within 3 weeks. Strikes me as a nice boost for business for illegal drug dealers.

  101. 101
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @Gin & Tonic: It’s Maltese and means something like “Lord of the Poultry.”

    ETA: It’s a pretty common name in Malta and he pointed out on NPR that he wouldn’t even be the first President Buttigieg, if he won – Malta has already had a president by that name.

  102. 102
    rikyrah says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Is it too much after seeing how the media ignored every warning sign about Trump to hope that someone will expose Sanders? Yeah, dumb question.

    We are SO NOT depending upon the media to expose Bernie. Folks are DONE.

  103. 103
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    They misspelled Jon Snow.

    Easy to do when you don’t read.

  104. 104
    germy says:

    @Gelfling 545: If I wanted cruelty I’d vote for republicans.

  105. 105
    smintheus says:

    @zhena gogolia: The American Rhodes Scholars I knew at Oxford were not on the whole very likeable. The appointment process selects for smooth, facile, self-impressed people who know how to schmooze and charm…people just like the interviewers themselves. I’m hoping Buttigieg is one of the exceptions. But even the few likeable Rhodes Scholars I met had a distinctive, pronounced facade behind which they concealed their real thoughts; they were never really square with anyone, it seemed. So for me that is a recommendation to be wary, just as I was of candidate Bill Clinton.

  106. 106
    Keith P. says:

    Big deal. I’ve seen Donald Trump speak fluent Alzheimer out of nowhere at multiple rallies.

  107. 107
    Kelly says:

    There’s 60 acre fire about 2 miles upriver at N Santiam state park. A bit close for comfort but there’s a couple roads and open fields between here and there. A lot of smoke. Plenty of fire fighting people and equipment. We have friends that live along the road to N Santiam state park that evacuated yesterday afternoon. They said the park is flattened. I kayaked past just before it took off. I saw a lot of smoke. I could see big, ready to burn slash piles from recent work to clear dead trees and figured they were burning slash. Our friends said one of their neighbors was burning a brush pile and it got away. It was windy and the wind blowing this way. The wind is calm this morning and no visible smoke, It is backyard burning season but yesterday was not a day I’d light up a pile.
    A few weeks ago we had a week of steady snow storms. The last of the snow melted about a week ago. Scarily early for this.

  108. 108
    West of the Rockies says:

    @scav:

    I also saw the names Steve Rodgers and John Snow.

  109. 109
    Amir Khalid says:

    @feebog:

    Obama did it when he was in his mid-40s,

    A teeny quibble: 47 is slightly past one’s mid-40s. I say that having been two weeks older than Obama at the time.

  110. 110
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @smintheus: He’s got one half of the process correct, which means he’s either sought out or was given something to read on this. There are two dynamics for the promulgation of extremism and the creation of extremists. The first are those that come from families and other social networks like religion that transmit and reinforce the extremist beliefs from one generation to the next. This is what you’re talking about. The other is what Buttigieg is referring to, which is the radicalization pathway for those coming from outside of these movements into them. Finally, societal stress – social, political, economic, religious, war, combinations thereof – all create a social behavioral and socio-cultural dynamic that make weak identities very, very important and salient as a survival mechanism. This is why, for instance, that even among the urban Iraqis tribal affiliation had become very, very important by 2004. It provided them with a network of support to survive both the US occupation and the low intensity warfare Iraqi response.

  111. 111
    Brachiator says:

    @The Pale Scot:

    Shit’s getting real in the UK, Macron and Tusk pretty much said no extension if May plans on just putting the same Act up for a 3rd? 4th? vote. I’ve lost count.

    My total outsider BREXIT speculation. BREXIT is as stupid as Trump’s stubbornness about the Wall, but with more players. Despite approaching deadlines and last minute decisions by the UK House Speaker, all of the major players are standing their ground. The end result is that the UK is closer to a no deal BREXIT than anything else.

    PM May asks to move the March 30 Leave date to June 30. But she appears to be insistent on pushing her deal again, even though the Speaker said that she could not propose the same deal a third time. How she is going to get around defying him is unclear.

    Tory MPs who want a no deal BREXIT are not going to budge.

    Jeremy Corbyn has finally shown his hand. He wants a soft BREXIT, but is opposed to a new referendum which might keep the UK in the EU. He also wants a general election, but cannot force it.

    Bottom line: a critical mass of Tory MPs and Labour MPs must come together to back Theresa May’s plan or to wrest control and try to come up with a Parliament controlled deal. Otherwise, you are left with a no deal BREXIT.

    The EU will not approve a longer delay. They do not trust the UK. A longer delay would mean that the UK would have to have their people sit in the EU as MEPs. The EU rightly feels that the UK would have these ministers try to force concessions from the EU instead of honestly acting in the larger interests of the European Union.

    ETA: The EU has laid down their own judgement:

    The EU will only agree to delay Brexit if the UK Parliament approves the current withdrawal agreement next week, Theresa May has been told.

    EU Council President Donald Tusk said a short extension, requested by the prime minister on Wednesday, was possible.

    So, it appears that May has to convince the Speaker to allow a third meaningful vote, or the UK may be headed for a no deal BREXIT.

  112. 112
    zhena gogolia says:

    @germy:

    First syllable.

  113. 113
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mart: Everything that he did on his honey moon in Soviet Russia was filmed and/or taped.

  114. 114
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Brachiator:

    I would love to see Mayor Pete and Pence in a VP debate.

    My only tiny concern about Mayor Pete — and it truly is a nadaburger — is that precisely because he is so thoughtful, I’m not sure he’d be able to answer debate questions effectively in the allotted 60 or 90 seconds. Every forum I’ve seen him in so far has been Q&A Town Hall format, with only the loosest of time constraints. But he’s obviously well-disciplined and can learn to make his case succinctly (if he doesn’t already have this skill), so I’m probably worrying about nothing.

    Yeah, the Boys from Indiana would be a memorable debate.

  115. 115
    satby says:

    My dream team is composed of Harris /Buttigieg or Warren/Buttigieg (which should sooth the ageists about Warren’s being “too old). But if Mayor Pete lands on top of the heap, the country will do great too. Any of them will be stellar.

  116. 116
    Princess says:

    Symone Sanders was Bernie’s Press Secretary in 2016 until she left abruptly in June 2016. I had enormous respect for her and she did a very good job for him — she was the only one I liked on his entire team. Briahna Gray is … a big come down. The Press Secretary should be a person capable of speaking to a wide audience in a compelling way. It is impossible to think Bernie had this in mind when he chose her. It looks like he plans to go scorched earth in this campaign.

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    They got to Devin’s cow!!!!

  118. 118
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    That’s hilarious! I was wondering why he had learned Maltese.

    I like the dogs.

  119. 119
    zhena gogolia says:

    @smintheus:

    My antennae go up at the words “Harvard” and “Rhodes Scholar,” but I think it’s cancelled out in his case by “military veteran.” I could be wrong.

  120. 120
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: Missed one, sorry!

  121. 121
    dogwood says:

    I’m pretty skeptical about Warren as the nominee. Her political skills are mediocre at best. She’s doing what many democratic candidates do over and over again which is running a Senatorial campaign rather than a Presidential campaign. Lots of specific policy programs on a few issues that the wonks in the party love. Very little overall vision or inspiration. The skill set required for the Oval are very different than those of a Senator. Harris and Mayor Pete are much more adept at connecting a wide rage of policy positions to a vision of where the county should go.

  122. 122
  123. 123
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    That is the first step, but we’re way beyond that. Reparations used to be kryptonite, now they’re not.

    I think if you are a public intellectual whose primary work is in the area of race and examining the systemic structural biases that further racism then, yes, I think it’s fair to expect that such a person would have at least a vague proposal about how reparations should be implemented. Saying, I think there should be a commission is just a dodge.

    Of course, sure, he ain’t got no obligation to anybody and if he just wants to withdraw from the national discourse to count his money and write comic books, that’s fine for him. But he’s not doing that. He’s staked out a position and declines to risk his intellectual capital by getting his hands dirty with specifics.

    It’s just disappointing

  124. 124
    SenyorDave says:

    BS starting to look like Trump with positions I agree with. Real sleazy.

  125. 125
    gwangung says:

    My point about TNC is that he is a powerful intellectual voice.

    I think the problem here is that TNC is a powerful intellectual BLACK voice and that colors all discussion from him about reparations which is not a Black issue but one that embraces all of American society. And I think it’s an issue where it HAS to be led by white voices in order for it to stick.

  126. 126
    retr2327 says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: I guess that explains why he speaks Maltese, which had been puzzling me . . .

  127. 127
    rikyrah says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    , that his supporters and his monomaniacal focus on economics issues, coupled with his ego, will drive him to run as an independent.

    I remember you writing this. But, he’s too damn lazy to run as an independent. He wants to leech off Democratic Party infrastructure.

  128. 128
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @JPL:

    Heard a rumour to that effect yesterday or the day before. It seems to be a fact that they met recently, and the speculation was that Joe would announce with Stacey as his running mate right out of the gate. I hope it doesn’t happen. IMO, Abrams would be effectively locking herself out of consideration for any future elective office. I’d much rather she continue to work on voter protection, give a killer prime time nominating speech at the Dem Convention next year, and kick David Perdue’s ass two years later.

  129. 129
    mary s says:

    Well, he’s a smart and appealing guy, that’s for sure. But he’s got no experience on the national level. That’s a negative, in my book. Also, I would really prefer that these guys and gals in red states do like Sherrod Brown and think about the importance of having more Democrats in the Senate — that includes Beto, Stacey, and Pete. They would not be guaranteed to win those Senate seats, of course, but . . . they’re not guaranteed to be the Dem nominee for president, either.

  130. 130
    smintheus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I would not deny that societal stress can make some people susceptible to the tribal appeal of extremists. But I don’t think that is remotely close to the primary issue behind white supremacism as Buttigieg suggests. Even if you just focus on those who are socialized into it outside the communities they grew up in, there are underlying factors of much greater consequence. Even though he distances himself from the economic anxiety argument, there are strong hints that he’s thinking along similar lines.

  131. 131
    Kathleen says:

    @Neil Hudelson: Thank you for your insight. It’s so helpful and rare to see perspective based in reality vs. media script.

  132. 132
    tobie says:

    @dogwood: I’ve felt that way, too. Legislative proposals are not the job of the executive. We’ve got to move the needle on the mindset in this country right now, which feels no common purpose. I appreciate that this will require major legislative action to help recreate ‘the commons’ but my sense is the role of the executive is to generate the political will in Congress and support in the public for that action to occur.

  133. 133
    rikyrah says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Another thing why I disagreed with you is because nobody is playing with him. He will not be allowed to hang around this time. I think that he, and his acolytes underestimate just how much ill will he caught from 2016-2018. People are done. I mean thru. No playing around. No coddling of him or his Stans. And, he hasn’t even begun to be truly vetted, and everytime someone confronts him with an issue of his that should be vetted, he huffs, puffs, and tries to dismiss them.

  134. 134
    WestTexan70 says:

    @smintheus: I am an almost 60-year/old white guy who grew up in West Texas during the oil boom of the 1970s. Everything you say is true — they are stone-cold racists during boom and bust times. They “sometimes” hid it better when the economy was good, but they were and still are racist as hell.

  135. 135
    Mike in NC says:

    Warren / Buttigieg 2020!

    Honestly, they are decent people but neither stands a snowball’s chance in hell of getting elected next year.

    America in 2020 is going to be an even worse place than the America of 2016, when a deranged reality TV game show host managed to squeak into the White House. Racism, sexism, hate crimes, and gun violence have all been steadily growing under Trump’s reign of terror. I just read where he met with the sicko Brazilian dictator yesterday and told him his country could join NATO.

    The corporate media don’t just care what happens as long as the top 1% are making more money. Putin and McConnell will do everything they can to keep Fat Bastard in office and nobody seems to have a clue what to do about it. An elderly woman and openly gay man are unelectable. Barring some catastrophe, Trump is going to coast to reelection thanks to MAGAt racial grievance and dark money, he’ll appoint a couple more ultraconservative judges to the Supreme Court, and then in 2024 we’ll see the GOP offer up a Steve King/Ivanka Trump ticket promising more tax cuts for the rich. We are living a nightmare.

  136. 136
    rikyrah says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Isn’t there a Senatorial election for Georgia in 2020?

  137. 137
    tobie says:

    @Brachiator: Thanks for the summary.

    Jeremy Corbyn has finally shown his hand. He wants a soft BREXIT, but is opposed to a new referendum which might keep the UK in the EU. He also wants a general election, but cannot force it.

    I knew this guy was a shit.

  138. 138
    Miss Bianca says:

    @The Pale Scot: You mad, impetuous dreamer, you…

    On a more serious note, never thought the break-up of the UK would ever look like a real possibility in my lifetime. Way to go, Tories and Little Englanders! You’ve just given a boot up the shrivelled backside of the British Empire. All out of xenophobia and spite. You must be so proud!

  139. 139
    smintheus says:

    @dogwood:

    Very little overall vision or inspiration.

    That strikes me as the opposite of what Warren offers. She is intense, so I don’t think “dull” is the right word either.

  140. 140
    Miss Bianca says:

    @satby: Cool! Hope he responds positively!

  141. 141
    Brachiator says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    That’s hilarious! I was wondering why he had learned Maltese

    I thought it was because of his pet falcon.

  142. 142
    Chyron HR says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It appears that the Sanders campaign is intent on hiring every single one of his most virulent supporters.

    Well, maybe now that Kropadope has a job he won’t be hanging around here for the entire primary.

  143. 143
    Ruckus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    This is my take as well. A ticket with Mayor Pete in second place would be damn good, as long as any of my first picks are in front. Abrams, Harris or Warren. A Warren/Mayor Pete would certainly cover the age issue.

  144. 144
    tobie says:

    TPM has a banner headline that Trump says the Mueller report should be released to the public. I assume this means that Barr has told him there’s nothing to worry about in there. Damn.

  145. 145
    Brachiator says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I would love to see Mayor Pete and Pence in a VP debate.

    My only tiny concern about Mayor Pete — and it truly is a nadaburger — is that precisely because he is so thoughtful, I’m not sure he’d be able to answer debate questions effectively in the allotted 60 or 90 seconds.

    I just want to see him make Pence nervous. I had not seriously thought about the reality of a debate.

    However, as noted, I am still learning about Mayor Pete. I appreciate your observation about how he performs in Town Hall sessions.

  146. 146
    rikyrah says:

    @tobie:

    Jeremy Corbyn has finally shown his hand. He wants a soft BREXIT, but is opposed to a new referendum which might keep the UK in the EU. He also wants a general election, but cannot force it.

    I knew this guy was a shit.

    Well…it’s been pretty obvious…..

  147. 147
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @gwangung:

    I think the problem here is that TNC is a powerful intellectual BLACK voice and that colors all discussion from him about reparations which is not a Black issue but one that embraces all of American society. And I think it’s an issue where it HAS to be led by white voices in order for it to stick.

    Unfortunately, I think if we wait on white voices to lead, it ain’t ever gonna happen.

    I know that TNC was surprised and unsettled when he became an “overnight success” a while ago after working diligently for 20 years. And he’s being very careful about not assuming that he was a sage just because people are listening to him now.

    But this is his ballpark. He’s laid the groundwork. Why withdraw now? Maybe it’s tactical on his part and he shares you concern that there need to be more white voices involved before moving forward but he hasn’t said that and I can’t think of a rhetorical reason why he wouldn’t say that instead of his standard line of “My proposal is that there be a commission.”

  148. 148
    smintheus says:

    @WestTexan70: I have several neighbors who are racists; they’re all doing fairly well in terms of jobs, and have lived their entire lives in this community.

  149. 149
    rk says:

    @The Pale Scot:

    Scottish MP stood up in Parliament and said it’s time for Scotland to leave the UK and join their “Irish cousins”.

    My humble suggestion for Britain. Do what you’ve always done to other people. Divide the country. The Scottish and the Irish want to be in the EU, the Welsh and English do not. Divide the country into two, force the people to move to the parts which suits their ideology. Unfortunately, unlike in India, you don’t get to wave goodbye and not have to deal with the consequences.
    On a more serious note, I always thought that the British rulers were just evil when they partitioned India without thinking things through, and with no plan for a orderly exchange of population. It led to a violent bloody mess with more than a million dead. But with Brexit, they’re showing the world that they’re not only evil, but stupid and incompetent. They’ve had two years to get their act together and have come up with squat. They couldn’t have made a bigger mess of things even if Donald Trump was leading the negotiations.

  150. 150
    smintheus says:

    @tobie: Trump hears what he wants to hear. He may have heard that Mueller doesn’t call for Trump’s immediate indictment.

  151. 151
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    His father emigrated from Malta. Buttigieg is apparently a very common Maltese surname. According to something Mayor Pete said in that Politics & Prose interview, there are only about twenty surnames total on the island.

  152. 152
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Brachiator:

    a critical mass of Tory MPs and Labour MPs must come together to back Theresa May’s plan or to wrest control and try to come up with a Parliament controlled deal. Otherwise, you are left with a no deal BREXIT.

    Or a critical mass of them needs to come together and form a national unity coalition to preserve the UK and Great Britain by stating that the referendum is not legally binding, which it isn’t. So they’re going to ignore it for the good of the country and stay in the EU.

  153. 153
    rikyrah says:

    Trial of Trump transition official may expose new Flynn details
    Rachel Maddow reports on the case of Bijan Kian, an associate of Mike Flynn and former official on the Trump transition team facing charges including operating as an agent of a foreign government.

  154. 154
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: He’s a Navy Intel officer who deployed to Afghanistan. He knows, from training and experience to “be brief and be gone”.

  155. 155

    @Miss Bianca:Is poetic justice that Brexit is happening at the 100th anniversary of Jallianwala Bagh Massacre.

  156. 156
    tobie says:

    @smintheus: True. The ass doesn’t have impulse control. I guess the question for me is how much Mueller sees his task as writing a report on foreign influence in the 2016 election in general and how much he sees it as a report on prosecutable crimes.

  157. 157
    CindyH says:

    @smintheus: Hear Hear!

  158. 158
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I say that having been two weeks older than Obama at the time.

    Aren’t you still?

  159. 159
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: Hopefully you’re right.

  160. 160
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Brickley Paiste: Reparations are kryptonite alright — to the Democratic Party. That’s why the media will beat that drum 24/7.

  161. 161
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @smintheus: The general strain components (anomie) of being deprived, or believing that one is deprived, of one’s earned achievements lead people to look for new connections to allow them to repair the harm they believe was done to them.

  162. 162
    Brachiator says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    a critical mass of Tory MPs and Labour MPs must come together to back Theresa May’s plan or to wrest control and try to come up with a Parliament controlled deal. Otherwise, you are left with a no deal BREXIT.

    Or a critical mass of them needs to come together and form a national unity coalition to preserve the UK and Great Britain by stating that the referendum is not legally binding, which it isn’t. So they’re going to ignore it for the good of the country and stay in the EU.

    Unfortunately, not enough of them seem willing to even consider this. They would have to formally revoke Article 50 in order to remain in the EU. But this would, I think, also mean that Parliament would have to seize control of the BREXIT process and also ultimately reject Theresa May’s government.

  163. 163
    trollhattan says:

    @Shana:
    I vote he goes in for an Italian-style air kiss to both cheeks.

    Odds are better than 25% Mother would come flying out of the VIP seating and tackle the mayor.

  164. 164
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Brachiator:

    Bottom line: a critical mass of Tory MPs and Labour MPs must come together to back Theresa May’s plan or to wrest control and try to come up with a Parliament controlled deal. Otherwise, you are left with a no deal BREXIT.

    It doesn’t work that way. That “critical mass” you’re looking for has been blocking PM May’s agreed deal with the EU, the Withdrawal Agreement for months now. She’s had her arse handed to her in a sling twice now, 100+ majorities in Parliament against her proposals in “meaningful” votes. Parliament is the Legislature, the Government is the nation’s Executive and its interface with the rest of the world — only the Government can, for example, withdraw Article 50 and stop Brexit in the same way the Government triggered Article 50 in the first place.

    The one power Parliament has over the Executive (apart from Budgetary control) is that they can pass a vote of no-confidence in this Government. This has been tried by Leader of the Opposition Jeremy Corbyn but the Tories, Brexiteers and Remainers alike along with the DUP voted in lockstep to support the PM and the motion failed. We don’t even have an impeachment process to remove the Executive (but we don’t directly elect a military dictator like some other nations I could mention).

  165. 165
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: “Kemal” is the Turkish word for “clever” – IIRC it was applied to the young Mustafa for his demonstrated intelligence when he was a schoolboy. “Atatürk” means “Father of the Turks” – when (at Mustafa Kemal’s insistence) the Turkish Republic decreed that all adults had to take surnames (considered necessary to have a “modern” state), the National Assembly insisted that he take this one.

    Before Mustafa Kemal there was no Turkey, only the Ottoman Empire, whose citizens wre known as Osmanlı; to be called “Turk” was considered an insult. Without Mustafa Kemal there is no Turkey; the Empire was to be dismembered after the Great War & most of Anatolia handed over to other nations by the Treaty of Sevres (1920), & only the resistance raised by him reintegrated the peninsula & forced a revised treaty (Lausanne, 1923) to recognize its nationhood.

    It was he who said Ne mutlu Türküm diyene! (English: How happy is the one who calls himself/herself a Turk!) – & led the Turks to believe it. For all of these reasons, Mustafa Kemal richly deserved the surname Atatürk – “father of his country” perhaps even more than George Washington of his. /tmi

  166. 166
    dr. bloor says:

    @smintheus: I’m still trying to figure out how a specific plan to tax the rich in a way that would be political suicide for a yuge swath of Congress to vote against is something that only “wonks” in the party would embrace.

  167. 167
    tobie says:

    @smintheus: You were right. TPM just posted the full quote and it’s typical Trumpian drivel:

    “Let it come out,” Trump said Wednesday. “Let the people see it. That’s up to the attorney general.”

    The qualifier at the end says everything. Barr is there to protect him, and seeing how he genuflected to the Dick-in-Chief at the signing of the emergency declaration regarding the wall, I have no doubt he’ll do whatever he can to protect his boss.

  168. 168
    germy says:

    Rep. Mike Quigley (D-IL) says that the US will be in a constitutional crisis if President Trump is allowed to see and edit the Mueller report before it is sent to Congress.

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/03/18/trump-mueller-report-executive-privilege-quigley-sot-ebof-vpx.cnn

  169. 169
    gwangung says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    But this is his ballpark.

    Which is precisely why I think he SHOULD step back.

    It isn’t his ballpark. It’s OUR ballpark. And white folks SHOULD step up to make it THEIR ballpark, suggest their solutions, suggest their policy. Or it won’t get solved.

    It’s like diversity officers in big institutions. Without buy-in from the majority, it’ll be shunted off to the side, starved of resources and attention. What we see there is what we’ll see across the nation without having major push from white leaders.

  170. 170
    Fair Economist says:

    @Brachiator: The EU has not ruled out a long delay. They have ruled out a short delay unless May’s deal is passed. IOW a short deal is only acceptable as a technical delay for enabling legislation, not for further negotiation.

  171. 171
    Brachiator says:

    @rk:

    They’ve had two years to get their act together and have come up with squat. They couldn’t have made a bigger mess of things even if Donald Trump was leading the negotiations.

    And on top of this, Trump Jr has the nerve to suggest that the UK should have followed the advice of the Great Orange Turd.

    Mr Trump Jr, who is the US president’s son but holds no political position, wrote a column in the Daily Telegraph.

    In it, he criticises PM Theresa May for having “ignored advice from my father”.

    Mr Trump Jr added that “the will of the people is likely to be ignored” because of “elite” politicians in Brussels.

  172. 172
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: I don’t disagree with you that he’s through inside/with the Democratic Party and with Democratic voters. The question is whether his ego and his sycophants allow him to recognize that this means he’s done because otherwise they’ll push him to run as an independent.

  173. 173
    BobS says:

    Buttigieg is the perfect vice-presidential candidate for Warren or Harris (my own first and second choices). I think he’s too young (barely old enough to run for president, in fact), too inexperienced (needs more than mayor of South Bend), and too openly gay (in America, in 2020- not 2028, when 2 terms of Warren or Harris would be finished) to be president. In 2028, he’d still be just 45 or 46 (and probably have the advantage of knowing several more languages).

  174. 174
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Hmm really? You think that democratic votors think it’s too soon? I don’t get that sense. I do live in a blue bubble, perhaps. But I think the only people who are strongly against reparations will never vote D anyway.

  175. 175
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WestTexan70: Unfortunately, far too few people studying/researching domestic extremism in the US are interested in that side of it.

  176. 176
    jc says:

    @germy: I’m still trying to figure out whether the country’s name is pronounced “cutter” or “gutter” or “katar.”

    I’m still trying to figure out whether his name is pronounced “Muller” or “Mule-er.” It doesn’t matter as long as he delivers Trump’s head on a pike (figuratively speaking).

  177. 177
    trollhattan says:

    @smintheus: @WestTexan70:
    Agree. The tea party mess and now Trump have simply removed an unwanted veil of decency and encouraged a lot of folks to say out loud (out lout?) what they’ve been thinking and saying in certain circles all along.

    My awareness changed considerably hearing off-the-cuff remarks during Obama’s presidency from purportedly polite, upstanding citizens. Ugh.

  178. 178

    @rk: They did their partition trick in Ireland first. And then repeated it many times over. India and Palestine come to mind. I am sure there are others that I am forgetting Evil and incompetent but supremely confident that they are the best. Not unlike today’s Brexiters. White supremacy yesterday, today and forever.

  179. 179
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @rikyrah:

    But, he’s too damn lazy to run as an independent.

    I think you hit the nail on the head – either lazy or undisciplined. Ballot access procedures can be complex. Running as an independent in one state, the one you live in, is manageable. Getting on in all 50, making all the right filings with the right numbers of valid signatures under all the deadlines, is hard and boring work of the sort that Wilmer has shown over his Senate career he is uninterested in.

  180. 180
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @rikyrah:

    You’re quite right, Perdue is up for reëlection in 2020, not 2022. Brain fart, apologies.

    Okay, so I want Stacey Abrams to make a killer speech at the convention in her role as the Democratic nominee for Senator from Georgia and then kick Perdue’s ass four months later. 😉

  181. 181
    Mary G says:

    Haven’t managed to learn how to link on this phone, but a LOT of the people I follow on Twitter are furious with Mayor Pete for saying bad things about Hillary. Evidently we were wrong to make everything about her in 2016. Wow. Terrible move.

  182. 182
    Plato says:

    EU is yanking brexiteers’ collective nuts in a chain. Exit brexit is on the cards?

  183. 183
    Joy in FL says:

    @Ohio Mom: Thank you for explaining about Wilmer. I knew who it was, but had no clue why. Now it makes sense.

  184. 184
    Mary G says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, all the attention Wilmer is getting from the Village and the giant pile of money he got in donations is clearly going to his head. He seems addicted to adulation and will not go quietly.

  185. 185
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Excellent point, thanks.

    I am now officially worry-free wrt Pete Buttigieg.

  186. 186
    J R in WV says:

    @Mart:

    Makes me wonder if Wilmer is on Putin’s payroll to divide this country along with Jill Stein and Trump.

    Don’t wonder. Bernard Sanders was a Soviet stooge in the days of the Iron Curtain, and is now a Russian stooge in the days of the Putin crime wave. He is the other side of the circle of politics beside and adjacent to Trump. Stein is on that same wheel, I’m not sure but what she is co-located with “Senator” Sanders.

    I say this and believe it because of Sanders’ positions regarding Russian sanctions, which he has never voted in favor of, and his policies, which all seem to be acceptable to Putin.

  187. 187
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Brachiator: No argument there. There are clearly the numbers to do this. However, there doesn’t appear to be the courage or the leadership to do it.

  188. 188
    rikyrah says:

    @jc:

    I thought it was “cutter”

  189. 189
    Mary G says:

    Experiment

  190. 190
    Brachiator says:

    @Fair Economist:

    The EU has not ruled out a long delay.

    The EU does not want a long delay. Last night I was listening to interviews with reporters who had spoken with EU ministers. They expressed their distrust of the UK and said (off the record) that they did not want a long delay because this would involve putting UK MEPs on the EU commission and, as I noted before, potentially letting them to use their continued presence in the EU organization to try to push for favorable concessions. These EU ministers want to be able to move along with EU business, not keep the BREXIT drama going.

    @Robert Sneddon:

    Bottom line: a critical mass of Tory MPs and Labour MPs must come together to back Theresa May’s plan or to wrest control and try to come up with a Parliament controlled deal. Otherwise, you are left with a no deal BREXIT.

    It doesn’t work that way. That “critical mass” you’re looking for has been blocking PM May’s agreed deal with the EU, the Withdrawal Agreement for months now.

    May says that she intends to have Parliament vote on her deal one more time. If a hard core of the Tory MPs refuse to switch over to her position and she cannot get support from Labour and the DUP, the UK is looking at a no deal BREXIT. There had been a proposal of Parliament to try to take over from the government and negotiate with the EU. I suppose that this could be resurrected, but the EU could reject anything that they proposed. This might also lead to a no deal BREXIT. If the EU will not grant a long delay, there would not be enough time to form a new government, vote a new referendum or do any other miracle play and you are again left with a no deal BREXIT.

  191. 191
    rikyrah says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Ballot access procedures can be complex. Running as an independent in one state, the one you live in, is manageable. Getting on in all 50, making all the right filings with the right numbers of valid signatures under all the deadlines, is hard and boring work of the sort that Wilmer has shown over his Senate career he is uninterested in.

    And, it takes money..which is what he doesn’t have..

    Remember, grifter Stein used the apparatus of the Green Party that already exists.

    Bernie would have to start from scratch…and, that takes a lot of dough and work

  192. 192
    Mart says:

    I guess the question for me is how much Mueller sees his task as writing a report on foreign influence in the 2016 election in general and how much he sees it as a report on prosecutable crimes.

    My understanding is Mueller is tasked with investigating ongoing Russian influence on elections.

  193. 193
    tobie says:

    @Mary G: This is what I’ve been able to dig up with a super quick check:

    @Maggie_Klaus
    2h2 hours ago
    More
    He said Hillary lost because her slogan was “I’m with her.” When he knows damn right it was STRONGER TOGETHER.

    Evidently he didn’t get that “her” was a reference to all women.

    ETA: I need to dig up the source for this to double check. If this report is correct, it’s deeply insensitive statement on Buttigieg’s part.

  194. 194
    Emerald says:

    @dogwood: Yes. Exactly. As much as I love Warren, she horribly mismanaged the whole DNA debacle. Harris has instead weaponized the trash thrown at her, which is what you have to do (and sadly, Hillary did not do). I like Harris and easily can see myself supporting her to the end, but I’m beginning to think that Mayor Pete could win me over. Why waste this guy on Veep? In any case, he WILL be the first openly gay President. The only question is when.

  195. 195
    Mayur says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Purdue is up in 2020, not 2022.

    Apropos of which: Abrams is an intelligent, skilled, and inspiring politician, which is why I want to see her run for President… in 2028 after she’s secured reëlection to GA Senate and hopefully secured a successor. She’s young, she has plenty of time, we need every Senate seat we can get, and she’s the only Dem politician we like who has demonstrated that she can make a real go at statewide office in GA.

    We need to stop trying to get everyone running for President or god forbid, VP); we already have a suite of compelling candidates. We need Governors and Senators. My primary sympathy for Mayor Pete (and Beto, for that matter) is that they’ve hit a real ceiling in their home state; Abrams has not.

    (That said, if he doesn’t make it to VP, Buttigieg should absolutely shoot for Senate. Young and Braun are both utter fucking jerks and they’re quite junior; Young did curb stomp Evan Bayh but that was in the midterm debacle of 2010 and Bayh is, well, not very inspiring.

  196. 196
    VeniceRiley says:

    @Brachiator: My take on Pete vs Pence is How great it would be. Particulary after the kaine *blinking leprechaun* disaster. Pete has a deep voice and can go toe to toe with Pence.

    Otherwise, the job I truly want for him, where I think he would absolutely shine, and where we truly need someone with his skills and languages: Sec State.

  197. 197

    Speaking of partition, didn’t Biden want to partition Iraq. I seem to have a vague recollection of Biden doing the rounds of cable shows promoting this idea, when he was a senator.

  198. 198
    Another Scott says:

    @Renie: We have some Fypon polyurethane “dentil” moulding on the outside of our house. It has held up well in NoVA (it’s roughly 15 years old).

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  199. 199
    Ruviana says:

    @tobie: Could it just mean that Barr didn’t find the word “collusion?”

  200. 200
    Mayur says:

    @Emerald: Sherrod Brown (or hell, Abrams) would be “wasted” as VP. VP to incumbent President’s successor might be Buttigieg’s best path: he’d be all of 46 years old in 2028 and right now, he would bring a lot to a ticket featuring, say, a middle-aged-to-older woman.

  201. 201
    The Lodger says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Looks like a Jersey cow to me. Maybe she’s lost.

  202. 202
    tobie says:

    Here’s a link to Buttigieg’s interview in Esquire.

    He says this about 2016:

    The problem with making it all about him is that’s what we did in 2016, and when we make it all about him, then there’s a lot of voters in places like the industrial midwest, where I live, who say, “Okay, but who’s talking about me?” Part of how we lost our way in 2016 was, first of all, it was all about our own nominee. “I’m with her,” was literally the button.

    And about Klobuchar:

    [Birch Bayh] was famous for carrying a spoon in his suit pocket to be ready for stops at Dairy Queen. He had that kind of nice retail touch. But also —

    Interviewer: If only Amy Klobuchar had adopted a version of that.

    Eeeeeeewww, uh, yeah.

    Glad I didn’t throw any $$$ his way.

  203. 203
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Mike in NC:

    I just read where he met with the sicko Brazilian dictator yesterday and told him his country could join NATO.

    Fat Bastard wants Brazil to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. JFC.

  204. 204
    Just Chuck says:

    @jc: The ‘q’ in Arabic is a qaf, which has no direct equivalent in English. It’s basically a ‘k’ pronounced as far back in the throat as possible. Just to confuse things, some dialects pronounce it as a hard ‘g’ (apparently one of those is Libyan, so they pronounced Qadaffi as “Gedeffy”). Arabic also has a lot of words with equal stress on both syllables.

    Qataris themselves don’t all pronounce it the same way: https://vimeo.com/14490749

  205. 205
    Don K says:

    As a gay white man, I don’t know whether my favorable opinion of Pete should be characterized as White Male Identity Politics or LGBTQ Identiry Politics, but in any event I fed him a few bucks to get him to 65,000 donors, and if he’s still in the mix when Michigan votes in March I could maybe vote for him because I’m impressed by his poise, maturity, and thoughtfulness.

    That said, I’m also very favorably disposed towards Harris and Warren (and my husband, who is a native of MA, is falling in love with Warren), so I’d be fine with a Warren-Pete or Harris-Pete ticket, and at this point my primary vote is up for grabs. The fact that a Warren presidency would drive hubby’s very Trumpy brother (still living in MA) completely over the edge is a plus for Warren.

  206. 206
    J R in WV says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    They did their partition trick in Ireland first. And then repeated it many times over. India and Palestine come to mind. I am sure there are others that I am forgetting

    They sliced up the whole Middle East, which is why all those national borders are straight lines on a map. They probably used a ruler to just cut the territory up in the days after WW I wound down.

    I’ve never respected England and don’t understand the Americans who dwell on the “Royals” as if they mattered to our world. Their customs are based upon prehistoric beliefs about superiority bestowed by the Lord, hate for the lower classes, hate for women not keeping their “place”, hatred for the people of color that built their empire for them.

    There is a reason we fought for our freedom from George III. Any nation who selects Teresa May to lead them out of their best shot at economic prosperity is at least as stupid as America was for allowing Trump into high office.

  207. 207

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Upon reflection, I don’t think the humorous list of interns is childish or creepy. If a bunch of Obama interns did it, I would think it is funny and cute, so same benefit of the doubt to these people.

    In fact, I am slightly impressed that anyone there has a sense of humor given the fact that I don’t think I have ever really seen Trump laugh.

  208. 208
    Emerald says:

    @Mayur: Good points. And we can’t have Sherrod Brown as Veep for the same reason he isn’t running for Prez: we cannot afford to lose a Dem senator from Ohio. Sherrod actually was my first choice, but I had to agree with that reasoning.

    And yeah, Stacey Abrams needs to run for Senator.

    My speculation about why Pete is running now is to get himself out there for the future. But if he takes off and surprises everybody he can win me over to supporting him to the top spot this time. I’m keeping my options open.

  209. 209
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: This was an idea that was bouncing around as early as 1991. It was in de facto effect with the no fly zones from 1992 on. And it was based on the way Iraq was administered prior to it being created as a modern state when the British installed the Hashemite princeling Faisal as king. During the Ottoman Empire, what we call Iraq was divided into three administrative units known as vilayets, which means province. Each had its own governor. Mosul in the north, Baghdad in the center, and Basra in the south. It was one part ethnic separation and two parts religious sectarian. The Kurds largely stayed and were kept in the north, the Sunni Arabs in the center, and the Shi’a Arabs in the south. It wasn’t a perfect separation, but it largely worked. It won’t work today, though it might have been possible early on to create a three subordinate states as administrative units form of Iraqi government. Where the day to day governance is left to a majority Kurdish state in the north, a majority Sunni Arab one in the center, and a majority Shi’a Arab one in the south with a national government and legislature dealing with national issues. To a certain extant Iraqi Kurdistan basically does this for the Kurds. You can’t really, because of the results on the human geography and demographics of the Iraqi fitnah (insurgency) from 2004 through 2010, to do this in the rest of Iraq.

  210. 210
    Sherparick says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The American Business Elite, which like to think of themselves as Galtian Heroes, rather than the collection of legacy brats, grifters, and soulless sociopaths that most of them are, have come to love the Trump Administration. Besides the tax cut and the basically being able to dump any legislation that restricts their cupidity and right to pillage the landscape, Trump and his minions have created huge Government contracts in Defense, Homeland Security, Private Prisons, Charter Schools, and Gulf oil states that his fire hosing money into the their pockets by the billions. That Trump is sociopath and an idiot they do not see as a problem since in this, he resembles them. There is the problem that more than half the country hates Trump and doesn’t like them and their Republican minions in Congress very much either. So how to get Trump reelected under these circumstances? They will encourage division in the opposition make sure that 54% voting against Trump is divided between two, probably 3 candidates. In this, they share an interest, getting Trump reelected, with the Russian Government, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the new Brazilian President, all of whom I expect will conduct a social media ratfucking and hacking of the 2019 – 2020 election that will make 2015-2016 look little league in comparison. In this one should not neglect to leave out the suits who run the great media corporations, not just Rupert, think Trump is great for business. A magic click master. Their joy making Trump the top story is evidenced by the fact that his feud (which so reminds me of DT’s WWE days) DT is carrying on with the husband of his senior female advisor is the top story of the day (ignoring the great Midwestern floods of 2019, the destruction and death of thousands in Mozambique from record setting tropical cyclone, Boeing selling planes with software that makes them dive into the Earth, and the UK making itself impoverished and irrelevant in the world because it is run by idiots.)

    The hiring of Grey and Sirota definitely means that Sanders intends to rule or ruin the Democratic Party in this election.

  211. 211
    sherparick says:

    @rikyrah: He would run as the Green Candidate. He actually flirted with in 2012 and 2016 before deciding to run for the Democratic nomination in 2016.

  212. 212
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Brachiator:

    May says that she intends to have Parliament vote on her deal one more time.

    She can’t. Parliament had rejected her proposals twice now, and not by narrow margins. The Speaker of the House has refused to schedule yet another vote on the same substantive proposals, quoting Parliamentary precedents going back 400 fricking years to that end. There’s an end-run she can try, proroguing Parliament and then instantiating another session before bringing the proposals back yet again to the floor of the Commons in the “new” Parliamentary session but it’s messy, long-winded and prone to all sorts of knock-backs, including another vote of confidence which she might not win next time and Article 50 engages in ten days time.

    There had been a proposal of Parliament to try to take over from the government and negotiate with the EU.

    Don’t know who suggested that but it’s so wrong I don’t know where to start.

    Point 1: the EU deals with Governments, not Legislatures. The EU is made up of Governments, the Council of Ministers is all Government people, the bureaucrats in Brussels take their instructions from Government leaders like Merkel and Macron — Tusk and Junker are administrative mouthpieces for those government leaders.

    Point 2: Parliament is a debating and legislative chamber with the collective organisational abilities of a colony of cockleshell clams. I could maybe see Jeremy Corbyn or Ian Blackford (leader of the SNP) talking to EU leaders but they can’t sign anything or agree to, say, withdraw Article 50 because they’re not the Government. It’s a bit like saying Congress should take over negotiating treaties with the Russians or whoever because Trump is doing such a bad job with the added complication that your 18th century Slaveholders Wishlist of a written Constitution explicitly forbids such shenanigans whereas for us it’s just not the done thing.

    Point 3: which group in Parliament would get to be the representatives of the Nation talking to the EU? the ERG, perhaps? Or Dennis Skinner? Do the House of Lords get a look-in too?

    Realistically it’s all up to PM May, no-one else need apply. She’s boxed into a corner and like any sort of a rat that’s when she’s most dangerous and unpredictable. However she’s still PM and for someone like her that’s probably the most important thing, to wake up tomorrow and still be PM. Doing anything else over the past few months would probably have had her calling in the moving company to Number 10 Downing Street while someone else went to Buck House to petition Betty to let them form the next Government.

  213. 213
    Geeno says:

    @germy: I put the accent on the first which makes it come out BOO-teh-jij –

  214. 214
    Barbara says:

    @Brachiator: The problem that the UK is facing is that other countries have actual goals and plans that they want to accomplish for the EU and those countries are simply tired of having to devote all their resources and energy to trying to save the UK from its self-imposed lunacy. It’s like when you realize that you have to cut the addict off from your life.

  215. 215
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jc: @Just Chuck: Is it “JAYsee” or jaySEE”?//

  216. 216
    Just Chuck says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Jay ZEEIDunno, long as I don’t have to listen to him. Wu Tang foreva.

  217. 217
    retr2327 says:

    @tobie: One of several reasons I have stopped looking at TPM is their unfortunate tendency to have headlines that are not supported by the stories underneath. I don’t need that kind of clickbait, and don’t consider it serious journalism.

  218. 218
    snoey says:

    @Robert Sneddon: Did something change? I thought that losing a vote that significant was the same as losing a No Confidence vote and out the PM went.

  219. 219

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s funny, in Hindi, vilayat means foreign lands, as opposed desh (homeland). Blighty is the British mispronunciation of Vilayati (foreigner). Thanks for the historical background behind the partition of Iraq idea.
    (Bilayat)
    @J R in WV: Not just Britain but other victors of both the world wars have never really apologized or reflected back on the sins of colonialism. White supremacy was used to provide a rationale for colonial misadventures, so its not really surprising that the cancer we thought was in remission has relapsed again.

  220. 220
    Amir Khalid says:

    @jc:
    “QAT-r.”
    “Mule-er” is closer to the German pronunciation of Müller.
    I hope this helps.

  221. 221
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Take it up with the Turks!

  222. 222
    rk says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Evil and incompetent but supremely confident that they are the best. Not unlike today’s Brexiters. White supremacy yesterday, today and forever.

    I’m not even sure if it’s all about white supremacy. I’ve been listening to a British radio show which came up on my feed for some reason. It’s a British guy named James ‘O’ Brien. He talks to the Brexiters and tries to figure out why they supported Brexit. All I can say is, I’d just quit if I had to spend a single hour trying to reason with such people. One person talked about how his small York town was full of Europeans, but admitted that they’d not be gone after Brexit. Vague words like “sovereignty” and “independence” are thrown around. One sentence contradicts the next. It’s all mush brains.
    I’ve came to the conclusion that we’re fools if we try to find a rational reason for Brexit (or Donald Trump). They talk about how they managed during WWII, forgetting that Britain was a colonial power fueling it’s economy off off other countries’ resources and that other countries were fighting along side them during the war. Voting for Brexit and Trump are flip sides of the same coin. It’s based on pure emotions. White supremacy is a part of it, but I think it’s a strong desire to be with only their own kind of people and live in an imaginary land which exists in their own heads. Extreme xenophobia. These people would despise European or Russian immigrants as well.

  223. 223
    Brachiator says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    May says that she intends to have Parliament vote on her deal one more time.

    She can’t.

    In her letter to the EU, May said that she intended to submit her deal to Parliament for another vote. You and I agree that this path seems to have been foreclosed. And yet, here she is offering this as a solution. I don’t know how she intends to get it done, but she thinks that she can. I’ve seen bits about some minor modifications or additions which maybe she will suggest are substantial.

    There had been a proposal of Parliament to try to take over from the government and negotiate with the EU.

    Don’t know who suggested that but it’s so wrong I don’t know where to start.

    There had been considerable discussion about this among some MPs. So, noting all your comments and objections, somebody still thought this was a possible strategy.

    We will see what happens. Still, at this point, May seems to be pushing the UK toward a no deal BREXIT with her dithering and weird insistence on trying to push her deal.

  224. 224
    Cheryl from Maryland says:

    @The Pale Scot: YES! I’d also like Wales and Brittany to join, but probably too much to hope. As for the DUP — Yorkshire is a lovely place, and I don’t wish the DUP on them. Perhaps an isolated Island is best for the DUP.

  225. 225
    germy says:

    Peter Paul Montgomery Buttigieg.

    If he becomes president or VP, I suspect most folks will go with PMB (like FDR, LBJ, or AOC).

    Easier that way.

  226. 226
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Brachiator:

    In her letter to the EU, May said that she intended to submit her deal to Parliament for another vote.

    Basically Parliament has said “no we won’t put the same deal up for yet another vote, you pushed your luck changing a few words around and we gave that version an even worse kicking.” What PM May said to the EU about her intentions doesn’t cut much ice with Parliament.

    Speaker of the Commons Bercow is doing his job and the Government is very unhappy with him. He may not get a seat in the Lords for doing his job, the usual retirement bonus for a Speaker, assuming the Tories are still in charge when he does retire.

  227. 227
    Bobby Thomson says:

    I was Mayor Pete curious until he gratuitously dumped on the Clinton campaign. Now I view him as just another useful Anti-Bernie white guy spoiler.

  228. 228

    @rk: They yearn for good old times without knowing or pretending not to know what made those times possible.

  229. 229
    polyorchnid octopunch says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Interesting. AFAIA, I’ve never encountered @xiruxi on twitter, and yet I’m blocked.

    Must be using a list of “inconvenient people who don’t swallow bullshit” accounts for her block list.

  230. 230
  231. 231
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @rk: the fact that bigotry includes people of pink hue doesn’t mean it isn’t white supremacist.

  232. 232
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @schrodingers_cat: In this case I think it is just how the meaning changed as the root went from one place to another and one language group to another.

  233. 233
    The Lodger says:

    @Cheryl from Maryland: How about the Isle of White?

  234. 234

    @Adam L Silverman: True. There are many words in north Indian languages directly from Persian. I wonder what vilayat means in Farsi.

    In Farsi it means solitude.

  235. 235
    tobie says:

    @Bobby Thomson: Yup…Buttigieg first misstated her campaign slogan, which was “Stronger together,” not “I’m with her,” and then he seemed to be oblivious to the fact that “her” was a reference not just to HRC but to all women, who earn 80 cents to every $1 a man earns. That was tone deaf. He did, however, have warm things to say about Sanders, whose campaign slogan “Bernie” must have struck him as super inclusive.

  236. 236
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Brickley Paiste: Trump will be reelected in a landslide if the Democratic Party platform includes reparations, and we’d probably lose the House and hand the Republicans a super-majority in the Senate too. I’m trying to think of a serious issue that would be more likely to be catastrophic to our ticket, and honestly, I can’t think of one.

  237. 237
    Dan B says:

    @tobie: Makes me wonder if the “insulted Hillary” line is a reincarnation of “gay men hate women, therefore they are homosexual” propaganda from decades ago. It’s a long shot. We’ll see if he addresses this / these. It feels like he’s getting traction if he’s attracting skepticism and some attacks this quickly.
    I’d like him in the debates because he seems likely to elevate the conversation and garner media. It also seems he has emotional intelligence chops. What I’m not seeing yet is inspiration. Although I’m inspired by him and the number of dynamic women running ir likely to run.

  238. 238
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    So they’re going to ignore it for the good of the country and stay in the EU.

    That may not be an option anymore. 3 yrs derogatory comments about the EU, Germany, France etc have changed the terrain. The UK can cancel Art.50, but they will be getting a shitload of resistance about keeping their exceptions, rebates and the Pound Sterling. The Torys have single handedly exhausted the good will that the UK had. And from what I’ve read France especially is thinking “do we really need these people”. Either way it goes Brexit will be the primary political topic for a decade. Why would the EU allow British schizophrenia to dominate its politics?

    I thought sanity would prevail, but even if the WA is voted in, the UK has torched any belief of the EU that they are a rational entity that can negotiate a final trade deal. And I still haven’t figured out what’s the true objective of the Ultra Brexiteers. Individually they make their money in finance, surely they understand that out of the EU London’s place in world finance will evaporate. They’re all sociopaths, willing to destroy their home for some sort of quick payoff. The big players are already moving assets and opening new offices to the continent. All of the well paying manufacturing jobs are at international corporations that aren’t impressed by English patriotism. In one stroke EU solves its birthrate issues, because all the bright young UK people aren’t going to stay in what will be one huge Trump rally with better speaking people.

  239. 239
    Carol says:

    @Neil Hudelson: Buttigieg is everything I want in a Democratic campaigner. I just watched him on a clip of morning joe and was impressed once again. He has a quick mind and seems to be energized by debate and he knows how to push back effectively. Rather than throw out a bunch of progressive policies that would be better dealt with in the Senate, his stated aim is to change the conversation, to redefine terms that he says the republicans have defined for decades now. I’m beginning to think he could surmount his age, but am afraid there is too much homophobia even in moderate/centrist circles for him to overcome that issue at this point. And his experience, too, is a problem. In 8-10 years after serving some time in the next Democratic administration, he should be ready to go. *But*, there’s no one else in the current crop of candidates at this point that has the raw political talent Buttigieg has. I’m trying to keep an open mind and not judge the rest of them until I become more familiar with them.

  240. 240
    Brachiator says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    What PM May said to the EU about her intentions doesn’t cut much ice with Parliament.

    It remains to be seen what happens next.

    Speaker of the Commons Bercow is doing his job and the Government is very unhappy with him. He may not get a seat in the Lords for doing his job, the usual retirement bonus for a Speaker, assuming the Tories are still in charge when he does retire.

    I’ve heard that Conservatives were unhappy with him. And now the Government is unhappy with him. He must be doing something right.

  241. 241
    Fair Economist says:

    @Mayur: I would rather see Abrams run for Senate but I could understand if her personal calculus was to run for President to possibly get it and possibly raise her status for another go at the stolen governorship. Skipping a Senate run to be Joe’s sidekick, though? Oh please no. And if Joe runs and doesn’t get nominated she’ll get some loser stink from something she has little influence over.

  242. 242
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Blighty is the British mispronunciation of Vilayati (foreigner).

    Thanks for this etymological tidbit!

  243. 243
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @snoey: It’s not uncommon for a Government which loses an important vote to call for a vote of confidence in itself but losing a vote isn’t necessarily the end of the Government other than maybe a Budget — the Government is formed and led by someone who has the confidence of Parliament i.e. can deliver a majority for supply, the financing of the workings of the nation. No Budget resolution, no government but in that case they would face a vote of no-confidence from the Opposition.

    Cack-handed Brexit negotiations are not enough for the Tory + DUP majority to get rid of PM May, they voted to support her in the no-confidence vote Corbyn called after the first vote on the Withdrawal Agreement went down in flames, 202 for and 432 against back in January.

  244. 244
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    Remembering what TNC has said in the past, particularly when he turned down having a weekly/2x weekly column in the FTFNYT, he didn’t want to be put in the rigid pigeonhole of a commentator or a prognosticator. He has, AFAIK, always preferred investigation, reporting, historical analysis, and storytelling.

    And IMHO, storytelling is a way of explaining the world and imagining the future unbounded by the limitations of “yah, but.” There’s a dearth of people who can tell powerful well grounded stories that allow us all to imagine. Let him choose and polish this next chapter in his craft.

  245. 245
    tobie says:

    @Dan B: What I was objecting to was the blitheness with which he said, “It was all about our own nominee. “I’m with her,” was literally the button.” Who made it “all about our own nominee”? Not the Clinton campaign. They were trying desperately to get the press to cover her when she talking about her objectives and programs but all we ever heard about were her emails. The forces arrayed against Clinton were staggering from the media to Russian bots to BernieBros and purity ponies, and to blame her relentlessly for the defeat when neither John Kerry nor Al Gore ever faced anything like this is just shameful IMO.

  246. 246
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Brachiator: the Parliamentary convention dealing with refusing repeated attempts to get the same legislation voted through dates back to 1604, so the answer is still “No.” PM May can bring the Withdrawal Agreement to the Chamber again but it will not be debated or voted upon. She might, just might, piss off enough Tory MPs by trying it again to lose another vote of no-confidence. Despite being vile creatures of the Nether Pit most Tories are good Parliamentarians and believe in the institution and really don’t like what PM May’s been doing. Saying that they are the Party faithful and they will generally remain faithful to the Party.

  247. 247
    KrakenJack says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Au contraire, I think that was just enough information. Of course, I have a trip to Turkey in May.

  248. 248
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @Fair Economist: In my fantasy world, Joe (or his staff) arranged a conversation with Abrams because they’d heard something about the importance of listening to Black women and wanted to get assurance from Abrams that they loooove Uncle Joe. And of course they assumed that because she’s a Black woman, she must speak for all Black women, right? And further along in my fantasy, she read him the OH FUCK NO act in a tone that scorched off the rest of his hair transplant plugs.

  249. 249
    The Pale Scot says:

    @rk:

    It’s a British guy named James ‘O’ Brien. He talks to the Brexiters and tries to figure out why they supported Brexit. All I can say is, I’d just quit if I had to spend a single hour trying to reason with such people.

    For a real taste go to the comment sections under Brexit articles in any paper other than the Guardian. "Dunkirk spirit" "they owe us for beating the Germans" blathering on and on and on for thousands of comments.

    FYWP

  250. 250
    Dan B says:

    @Renie: All the materials you list are quite durable – more durable than most wood products these days. They vary somewhat in UV resistance but not by much in what you are after: trim ( vs. fabric / very thin msterials ) Some of them have foam cores so are comparatively fragile if not mounted to a wall or other solid surface.

  251. 251
    Salty Sam says:

    @tobie: @Bobby Thomson:

    Dang!, the butthurt is STRONG in y’all- almost troll-like in it’s purity…

    I’ve read that passage in the Esquire interview three times now and do not see any disrespect given to HRC. All he was saying was that the focus of the campaign was in the wrong direction.

  252. 252

    @The Pale Scot: The Brexiters may not be aware of this and the lataest movie didn’t show it either but many of the soldiers who withdrew from Dunkirk were from the British Indian Army. Curzon was right without India, Britain would be second rate power.

  253. 253
    Dan B says:

    @tobie: Hillary faced huge headwinds of course. My friends who adored her felt she’d been too managed by communication consultants and losth her genuineness. I seem to remember “I’m with Her” signs from the campaign with the Hillary arrow logo. I know it wasn’t her slogan. Seems like Pete really made a bad mis-step and mis-remember. I’d like to know more about the Wilmer admiration.

  254. 254
  255. 255
    smedley the uncertain says:

    @germy: This is typical of My opportunistic Senator jumping on another popular band wagon with little thought or plan. I would not vote to reelect her Senator. If, heaven forbid, she is nominated of course I’d vote for her.

  256. 256
    tobie says:

    @Salty Sam: And all I’m saying is that he evidently didn’t look at HRC’s campaign very carefully, which included proposals for reviving manufacturing in places like South Bend, Indiana. She gave her stump speech in Indiana many times and it emphasized jobs, healthcare, criminal justice, education, tackling the opioid epidemic–you know, the kind of stuff Buttigieg is saying heartland voters care about. He stepped in it and he should apologize and move on.

  257. 257
    Dan B says:

    @Salty Sam: Thanks for your comment. Campaigns arr never perfect but some things about Hillary’s seemed off target. It didn’t seem likr it reflected her and was at times defensive. I blame the consultants, but blame the MSM 10,000 times more. Our institutions are failing this country. Hillary and almost every Dem are fighting to right the ship, especially the women. I love the way Pete communicates and I want him to promote the women (but not Tulsi, of course).

  258. 258
    tobie says:

    @Dan B: Thanks. I’m not angry, just hurt at all the forces that conspired against us having a decent President who actually cares about people. I’m also aware that a campaign has to figure out the headwinds it’s facing or it’s not an effective campaign and in this sense her campaign failed: it didn’t anticipate–maybe because it was so irrational–the kind of hate that would be directed at the nominee. I mean: who would have predicted that in 2016 she would be blamed for her husband’s affairs? That gobsmacked me. But I’m sensitive to the complaint that Hillary was somehow a narcissist, more focused on herself and her chance to make history than on issues. I actually think it would have helped her if she had been more narcissistic. It’s weird but preternatural self-confidence is actually a prerequisite for being President.

    The only button I ever got from the campaign was “Love trumps hate.” I gave it to a friend because I thought the sentiment still mattered.

  259. 259
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Salty Sam: fuck off, troll dipshit I’ve never seen here before.

  260. 260
    WaterGirl says:

    @donnah: Pete Buttigieg is my at this point, too. Until I saw his CNN town hall at some point last week, Beto and Harris were my favorites. I am trying to listen to a town hall or video interview of all the decent candidates because you never know who might wow me as I get to know them better.

    So I listen to podcasts or listen to the town halls and interviews as I am falling asleep at night. I tried to listen to Elizabeth Warren at bedtime last night, but I had to turn it off – the audience was screaming so loudly and was so excited I thought for a moment that I was listening to The Beatles the first time they were on the Ed Sullivan Show.

    So I am going to have to listen to Elizabeth Warren’s town hall in the light of day!

  261. 261
    Salty Sam says:

    @tobie: Thanks to you both. I can see that we are all pretty much in agreement.

    This election is going to stir up the shit something fierce. Buckle up!

  262. 262
    WaterGirl says:

    @Brachiator: I would recommend listening to Pete Buttigieg speak as opposed to reading an article. Here’s a list I posted earlier this week, in case anyone is interested:

    Stephen Colbert (7 minutes)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7SHQSGesyM

    Axios Interview: 2020 Vision (15 minutes)

    https://www.axios.com/podcast-pete-buttigieg-1552364264-1465dd8a-6116-453d-80f6-1d5fcea42918.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic

    CNN Town Hall (48 minutes)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1994&v=LKTlVH2EKIg

    Pod Save America Interview (1 hour)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsrjkQt60vI

    Stay Tuned with Preet (1 hour, starts at 14:00)

    https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/wnyc/stay-tuned-with-preet/e/59269733

  263. 263
    Brachiator says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    the Parliamentary convention dealing with refusing repeated attempts to get the same legislation voted through dates back to 1604, so the answer is still “No.” PM May can bring the Withdrawal Agreement to the Chamber again but it will not be debated or voted upon.

    Last word on this for now.

    I know all this. PM May wrote her letter to the EU knowing all this. We agree that she is in a box. Neither you nor I know what she is going to do next, or why she believes that she can still bring the deal to a vote. And oddly enough, the EU has indicated that they might allow a delay. Obviously, somebody thinks that May still has room to move.

    We shall see what happens.

  264. 264
    WaterGirl says:

    Two more Pete Buttigieg video links:

    C-SPAN Meeting with Iowa Voters (1 hour + shaking hands with voters afterwards)

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?457645-1/south-bend-mayor-pete-buttigieg-meets-iowa-voters

    Author Interview: Shortest Way Home (1 hour)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nldx3r7h3Cg

  265. 265
    Salty Sam says:

    @Bobby Thomson: I like you too!

  266. 266
    WaterGirl says:

    @wmd:

    His strategic goal is to get more name recognition and a fundraising list for a senate campaign in 2022, with a future presidential campaign in 2028.

    Wondering if you have a source of that? Or perhaps you are secretly Chasten, his husband? Insider knowledge, or just speculation. I ask with great interest because I have the impression that he’s not the slightest bit interested in being a senator or a representative in the house.

  267. 267
    Brachiator says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I would recommend listening to him speak as opposed to reading an article. Here’s a list I posted earlier this week, in case anyone is interested

    I will take a look at some of these. Thanks!

  268. 268
    WaterGirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    But if you’d like to pick a fight, I’ve got a few minutes.

    I truly laughed out loud at this. thanks for that.

  269. 269
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy: Watch the first minute or so of any of the videos at the links I posted either on this thread or on the next one. The interviewer always says Pete’s full name and sometimes they even ask about the pronunciation, so you get to hear Pete say it himself.

    I believe the accent is on the first syllable and then say the second two pretty fast — just run them together — and you will have it right, I think.

  270. 270
    misterpuff says:

    @scav: It strikes me that the pseudonymish interns may be the smart ones.

    Too smart to identify themselves as Trumpers or even Trump admin interns.

    And yet we will never know who J. T. Hutt truly is.

  271. 271
    WaterGirl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Apparently — as I have gleaned from some of the Buttigieg videos I have linked to today — Buttigieg is apparently a very common name. Maybe Malta?

    Yes, Malta. I just googled:

    Buttigieg. Buttigieg is a Maltese surname

  272. 272
    tybee says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: david perdue was elected in 2014 so that makes him up in 2020, yes?

  273. 273
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @WaterGirl: Everybody here is stressed and on edge. The more we all keep that in mind, the better off we’ll be as front pagers and commenters.

  274. 274
    WaterGirl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:Listen to Pete on the Colbert interview (7 minutes) or the 15 minute interview that I also linked to in my list of videos. I think he can absolutely pare his answers down.

  275. 275
    sgrAstar says:

    @Brickley Paiste: re reparations:

    The mechanism is the issue and purported intellectuals like TNC need to stop ducking the question and face it head on.

    This is one of the stupidest comments I’ve seen on BJ. Good fucking grief.

  276. 276
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Hell, the GOP demonizes things that just tangentially benefit blacks as “reparations.” Michele “Crazy Eyes” Bachman thought the Pigford settlement was “reparations.”

  277. 277
    Bill Arnold says:

    @tobie:

    Evidently he didn’t get that “her” was a reference to all women.

    Are you serious? She or somebody on or associated with her campaign created a new meaning specific to her political campaign for a basic pronoun? I just thought it was a bit tone-def politically. I was a strong Hillary supporter but mostly for her policy positions, for being a woman, for not being Donald J. Trump, and for being precise in her language. Didn’t follow the campaign slogans/stump stuff at all. She had a few character flaws but they didn’t hold a candle to D.J. Trump, an entity comprised entirely of character flaws.
    https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-m-with-her is helpful for some history (as always with knowyourmeme check for accuracy)
    And yeah, Buttigeig should probably explain his comment, but after rereading a few times, it seems to be at worst mildly ignorant of the details of the Hillary2016 campaign.

  278. 278
    catclub says:

    @Brachiator:

    And oddly enough, the EU has indicated that they might allow a delay.

    That delay has some teeth. Either a short delay assuming approval for the present agreement, or no delay.
    Or I guess a LONG delay with no agreement.

    Has anyone objected that Pete looks a little too much like Rowan Atkinson? Who is a fabulous comedian, but I am not sure I would want as president.

  279. 279
    Carol says:

    @The Pale Scot: Will Scotland opt to secede and stay with the EU?

  280. 280
    artem1s says:

    he has longer government experience than Trump and more executive credentials than Pence, who was Indiana’s governor for four years…

    I hope he comes up with a better argument for why he is electable. Just because the GOP decided to lower the bar below the Zapphod level, does not mean Democrats have to follow suit. I like the guy so far, but his white privilege is showing.

  281. 281
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Citizen Alan: Yep. I put up a post about this issue because (and maybe I’m just paranoid) I think the GOP/media wants us to take this bait. But I bigfooted not one but TWO colleagues, so I took it down. Eh. Maybe later!

  282. 282
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    because (and maybe I’m just paranoid) I think the GOP/media wants us to take this bait.

    You’re not wrong, fairly sure though a 2 minute skim search found nothing.
    BP is also right in a sense (IMO), (very broadly “paraphrasing” here) that reparations shouldn’t even be a serious political aspiration without at least one solid proposal that addresses the fairness issues in way that is accepted nationally with close to consensus.

    Politically and practically gameable stuff like this, while laudable, doesn’t sufficiently cut it:
    For Reparations: A Conversation With William A. Darity Jr.

    The critical distinction that I want to make is the folks who have a history of ancestry that’s tied to enslavement in the United States are folks who have a history of ancestry that’s tied to coerced migration to the United States. I think that’s a critical distinction. I think that is the population who has to be identified as the truly victimized population in the process of thinking about whom should receive reparations.

  283. 283
    joel hanes says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    Ottoman Empire, whose citizens wre known as Osmanlı; to be called “Turk” was considered an insult

    Why? Because it conflated the Osmanli with the Aq Qoyunlu and the Kara Koyunlu ?

  284. 284
    Thor Heyerdahl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Page 624 still here for me. Downloaded it and saved a copy of the page for posterity’s sake.

  285. 285
    Racer X says:

    ” Trump’s tenure, they say, has soured Democrats on the notion of inexperienced candidates jumping into the presidency.”
    WTF????
    Trump won because he didn’t appear to be the same old tired politician that most voters are fed up with. Don’t we ever learn?

  286. 286
    mere mortal says:

    Am I seriously going to be the first person to make a “Norwegian Blue” reference?

    For doG’s sake, people, where are the Monty Python fans?

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