Monday Afternoon Open Thread

I’m fatigued.

There is just so much going on it is dizzying. Most of all I just don’t understand how he is still in office. Or all his crooked cronies, like Wilbur Ross.

It’s what I think whenever I check the news- “Nothing really matters anymore, does it?”






149 replies
  1. 1
    SenyorDave says:

    “Nothing really matters anymore, does it?”

    Freddie Mercury really had it right:

    Nothing really matters, anyone can see
    Nothing really matters
    Nothing really matters to me
    Any way the wind blows

  2. 2
    Raoul says:

    @SenyorDave: We already had the scaramooch.

    (Or as Queen spelled it, scaramouche.)

  3. 3
    chopper says:

    yeah, it’s fucking exhausting.

    OTOH, i have a few boxes of girl scout cookies.

  4. 4
  5. 5
    SenyorDave says:

    I was at the gym yesterday and I heard two guys, probably 75ish talking. One said he saw the hippie millennial star on TV and she seemed like a complete airhead. Went on about how she was azero, never has done anything in her life. He then said that he doesn’t always like what Trump says, but at least he acts like an adult. I almost broke my rule about not talking politics with strangers (it doesn’t end well very often) , fortunately I was done and left the locker room. I keep thinking about anyone using Trump and adult in the same sentence.

  6. 6

    I think the best we can manage is for the next president to prosecute all these motherfuckers to the full extent of the law.

  7. 7
    Pogonip says:

    @Raoul: Queen spelled it correctly.

    Cheer up, Cole. I hate to see a good guy like you so unhappy. Remember, this too shall pass—and if it’s a U.S.presidency, it passes no more than 8 years after it began.

    May you find what you seek, the sooner the better.

  8. 8
    Raoul says:

    You aren’t imagining things, John.

    The country is in bottomless fall, and our news industry is as invested as ever in treating ‘both sides’ as having relatively equal standing and role in our demise.

    It feels sort of like the MSM is the MCAS, endlessly pushing the nose down on our 737 of democracy.

    We keep flicking the switch and pulling back on the yolk, but the jackscrew keeps turning. It was really chilling to read about how, eventually, the LION Air pilots just gave up yanking the controls back, seemingly deciding that the unstoppable software bug was going to crash them, so why keep fighting?

    FTR, I am not there with this democracy. But the MSM is part of the software that has to be updated, while we’re in flight.

  9. 9
    Mo MacArbie says:

    Don’t stand so close to the willow.

    I feel you though. It’s a grind. Nothing to do but find joy where you can and settle in to a lifetime of struggle. I remember when I thought that political questions get resolved, and one can look forward to not having to argue about them forever. Good times.

  10. 10
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @SenyorDave: Were they referring to Beto O’Rourke? ETA: Oh Ocasio-Cortez, I guess?

    But shyeah Trump “acting like an adult” is beyond bizarre.

  11. 11
    Raoul says:

    @Pogonip: Well, they did. Till Anthony joined the Trump admin.

  12. 12
    Mel says:

    @chopper: Thin Mints and dark chocolate cocoa. Sanity food.

  13. 13

    @chopper: Trader Joe’s Dark Chocolate coins are a good substitute.
    I have been pretty cranky too. Our fridge died yesterday, suddenly. I have no idea why. The repair person is going to come tomorrow.

  14. 14
    MomSense says:

    I’m a wicked news junkie so I should be equipped to handle the daily news but I find it exhausting. The problem is that we are on a spectrum that runs from corruption to crimes against humanity level of evil and it feels like there is a strong desire by too many in the media to try and normalize how awful it is.
    I vacillate between sadness and tears, fury, anguish, disbelief, anxiety, and gallows humor. It’s an omnipresent factor in all our lives.

  15. 15
    karen marie says:

    @Mel: Sub out the cocoa for hot half & half and a big spoonful of local honey and a shot of Irish whiskey and I’m there.

  16. 16
    NotMax says:

    Take a break. Smell the flowers. Bake a cake.

    Switching gears, admittedly it’s kind of a cheat but I’m tired of blocks of cheese going moldy in the fridge before I can use them entirely, so took a gamble on this stuff. More than happy with the results for basic mac ‘n’ cheese.

  17. 17
    Brachiator says:

    It’s what I think whenever I check the news- “Nothing really matters anymore, does it?”

    It has certainly been a crazy start to the week. And hell, I’m still trying to catch up with a lot of stuff that happened last week.

    I strongly recommend The Black Guy Who Tips podcast which discusses the recent college admissions scandal. 1862: Anglo Affirmative Action One very interesting insight. He speculates (rightly, I think) that some of the parents didn’t tell their kids that they were cheating to help them get into school because they wanted their kids to believe that they really were entitled to their white privilege, and were not the mediocrities that the really were. They could go to a high class college and look down on blacks and Hispanics who presumably got in only because of affirmative action, even though the nonwhite kids had to work harder and more honestly to get into college.

    Also, I did not know that one of the assholes who cheated was a big Trump supporter. Comedian Tom Arnold noted:

    Comic Tom Arnold told a tantalizing tale of a run-in with an LA power couple caught up in the college admissions scandal….

    “Couple [weeks] ago I got into it … for 10th time with #CollegeCheatingScandal DAD at big party cause his sloppy ass was rambling on again about Trump & people carrying their own weight & his own conservative politics being ‘right of Attila the Hun….’

    Sources told Page Six that the “dad” in question was Mossimo Giannulli, the fashion designer husband of “Full House” star Lori Loughlin….

    A spy seconded Arnold’s account, telling Page Six, “Mossimo was talking about how he agrees with Trump, and that people need to carry their own weight. He was saying there’s a lot of ‘takers’ out there and entitled people.”

    He and Loughlin allegedly paid $500,000 to pass off their two daughters as crew athletes so the girls could get into USC, feds charged.

    I love how these people believe their own bullshit. They are worse than hypocrites.

    Also, in the news, BREXIT is a hot mess. It’s been pushed aside because of the terrible tragedies, and also because news must be devoted to Trump’s Twitter rants. Maybe UK pundits are exaggerating, but some are using the term “constitutional crisis” to describe the latest political moves.

    I have to admit I’m enjoying watching the Republicans consume themselves. Trump keeps attacking Dead John McCain, and Meghan McCain slams back: Trump obsessed with my father because he ‘will never be a great man’

    I can hardly wait for Tuesday.

  18. 18
    karen marie says:

    @MomSense: It is criminal that the media refuses to report that Trump is actively encouraging terrorists. I just can’t even.

  19. 19

    @MomSense: Same here. News has been so depressing. Did you end up seeing Raazi?

  20. 20
    ruemara says:

    @Pogonip: This is not a US presidency. This is an attempt at US autocracy and it won’t pass in 8 years if you’re not careful to treat it like a fledgling autocracy.
    It doesn’t matter because the people with the power are more than willing to destroy everything for the power and the people who need to be fighting them are busy scrapping over whatever bits of power are left.

  21. 21
    tokyokie says:

    @chopper: Apparently, I was in the hospital while the Girl Scouts were prowling the area, so I missed out. Although I still have a box of thin mints from last year.

  22. 22
    debbie says:

    @MomSense:

    Finally I’ve found you! Congratulations on your miracle! Your son has great musical taste. A friend took me to see Muddy Waters (Paul’s Mall in Boston) when I was 17 and it fucking changed my life.

  23. 23
    MomSense says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I loved it! There’s a cute Netflix movie called 100 foot journey that you might like.

  24. 24
    HumboldtBlue says:

    I’m with you, Cole, I dread even opening up this site anymore because I know it will be something worse than what happened yesterday and that was the worst ever!

  25. 25
    MomSense says:

    @debbie:

    Oh my god you saw Muddy Waters??!! He is on heavy rotation at my house – my son does a lot of his songs.

  26. 26
    Lapassionara says:

    @tokyokie: Well, that should be a good test of their shelf life.

  27. 27
    trollhattan says:

    Presently 73 degrees, which I believe is the highest temp of 2019, and about dang time. I’ll take the mosquitoes and weeds for the chance to air out the house.

    Rain returns Wednesday. Blech.

  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    Mr. Weeks 🤴🏾 (@MrDane1982) Tweeted:
    Beto O’Rourke is asked if he supports the Equal Rights Amendment

    “If we are unable to do this legislatively, or any other way, then yes.”

    What the fuck does this even mean? https://twitter.com/MrDane1982/status/1107736683561267206?s=17

  29. 29

    @NotMax:
    If you love Mac and Cheese, I cannot recommend this recipe too highly. You can substitute your favorite cheese for the cheddar in the recipe; I find a mix of cheddar and aged Gouda is fantastic.

  30. 30
    NotMax says:

    @MomSense

    Dunno if you saw mention earlier that Movie Movie is now on Amazon Prime. You will like. Also too, a micro-series called Empty Space, about the goings on while mounting a production of Romeo and Juliet (not to be confused with a movie with a similar title).

  31. 31
    WereBear says:

    @Lapassionara: It works in the freezer. But really, how do Thin Mints go uneaten?

  32. 32
    WereBear says:

    Side note: I just wrestled a new theme onto the site (click my nym) and welcome feedback from those interested.

    I continue doing my little thing while fighting the best I can. What else can any of us do but our best?

  33. 33

    @MomSense: I have become an Alia Bhatt fan after watching Raazi, my mom says that Bhatt was phenomenal in Udta Punjab (High Punjab) about the drug problem in Punjab, where she plays a migrant farm worker who gets caught up in the drug trade.
    Here she is in the Train Song from Gully Boy based on the underground rap scene in Mumbai, directed by Zoya Akhtar.

    ETA: Is that the one with Om Puri and Helen Mirren

  34. 34
    Cermet says:

    Not unlike the thirties before the real world war started, you are reacting to the world darkening (less the economic catastrophic then.) Unlike WWII, this war has already been lost – between AGW and the vast wealth inequality – the question is only how vast the death and destruction level that will finally be achieved; the laughably stupid, greedy and worthless (self proclaimed) greatest generation have doomed all of humankind to this baked in fate. The only question is if, somehow, the max temp that will be baked in can be lowered to a level that the very worse effects aren’t achieved.

  35. 35
    Mo MacArbie says:

    @trollhattan: Yes, I’ve got all the windows open too. Mopped the floors (clad), washed the bedding, and just generally banished the winter funk.

  36. 36
    rikyrah says:

    Probation 😒😒

    LIVE Breaking News (@NewsBreaking) Tweeted:
    NEW: Florida woman accused of embezzling funds from her job while on probation for embezzling funds from a previous job
    READ MORE: https://t.co/lMZJ9tQLQ9 https://twitter.com/NewsBreaking/status/1107733254700851200?s=17

  37. 37
    tokyokie says:

    @WereBear:

    It works in the freezer. But really, how do Thin Mints go uneaten?

    Through a concerted and uncharacteristic display of self-discipline.

  38. 38
    Betty Cracker says:

    Weirdly, the most vacuous corners of the Beltway media seem to have settled on Trump’s bizarre fixation with Fox News personalities in this weekend’s tweets as valid evidence that he’s a blithering nutbag. The constant lying and destructive and cruel policies didn’t do it, but going to the mat for Carlson and Pirro did. Strange.

  39. 39
    MomSense says:

    @NotMax:

    I watched the first episode of Empty Space and really liked it. I like pieces that take their time and develop the characters. And I always like it when they treat youngs like the complex human beings they are.

    I haven’t seen Movie Movie so I’ll have to check that out. I binged Queer Eye over the weekend.

  40. 40
    MomSense says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Yes, and the very handsome Manish Dayal.

  41. 41
    NotMax says:

    @Roger Moore

    Have one recipe (riffing off the Horn & Hardart version, minus the tomatoes) I use when making it for company or to take to a party, using cheddar, gruyere and parmesan. When throwing it together only for me, quick ‘n’ easy is preferred.

  42. 42
    SenyorDave says:

    @rikyrah: I interpret it that he is saying lets pass a law that is constitutional that would accomplish the same thing is preferential. Because there is no way in hell that three quarters of the states (required to pass an amendment) would pass the ERA (MS, AL, KY, SC, TX, LA, TN, SD, ND, UT, NB, KS, WY – that’s 13 right there that I think are non-starters given the current legislative makeup).
    BTW, this is after two thirds of the US House and Senate each approve the ERA, and that isn’t going to happen either. So Beto was just being realistic, I think.

  43. 43
    Quiltingfool says:

    This is an exhausting time. I read all my news sites until I reach the screaming point – and then I go work on quilts. Keeps me sane.

  44. 44

    @Brachiator:

    Maybe UK pundits are exaggerating, but some are using the term “constitutional crisis” to describe the latest political moves.

    It’s times like this when I almost wish the Queen would step in and straighten stuff out for them.

  45. 45
    lamh36 says:

    Chump’s election and everyday of the Presidency has put this pall over the attitudes and vibes of the country?

    I mean more and more folks depressed, dying of suicide, or overdosing…single mass shootings, police brutality, out right expressions of racism, xenophobia and nationalism.

    It’s like with Chump at the top, the bad seeds are emboldened by the jackass in chief, and are just behaving even worse and are out and proud about it like never before.

    It’s like the mental stability of the entire country is in contstant turmoil and it’s effecting everything and everyone even if not in obvious ways.

  46. 46
    WaterGirl says:

    @rikyrah: To me it seems that Beto is saying that if there is a faster/quicker/better way than trying to amend the constitution, he’s all for that. If not, then he is for doing it with a constitutional amendment.

    I have read that we would have to start over with the amendment because of the time that has elapsed, so good luck with red states signing on to a constitutional amendment. And I say that as someone who would very much like women to have equal rights.

    But if a person wants to assume bad intentions, then there are other ways it can be interpreted.

    Speaking of laws, I read on the “5 things that Corey Booker believes” article (or whatever it was called) one of the things in there was that he wants lynching to be a hate crime. Does that mean that lynching isn’t already considered a hate crime? If so, we are one fucked up country.

  47. 47
    rikyrah says:

    EricFive (@KingEric55) Tweeted:
    @stucam7771 To see Trump’s racism they’d have to admit their own. Trump is able to get away with the lying and being a traitor because of his racism. He knows this. That’s why he never condemns Nazis, white supremacist terror plotters or murderers of Muslims. https://twitter.com/KingEric55/status/1107766710222970880?s=17

  48. 48
    gene108 says:

    @Brachiator:

    Didn’t Meghan McCain recently say she is a Trump supporter?

    Still wondering why anyone in the John Sydney McCain household doesn’t hate Trump, with the fury of a thousand suns, the way Trump shits all over McCain.

    But they fall in line like loyal Republicans

  49. 49
    WaterGirl says:

    @WereBear: Totally honest? I liked the previous theme better. :-(

  50. 50
    rikyrah says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Lynching is not legally considered a hate crime😒😒

  51. 51
    SenyorDave says:

    This is a good synopsis of the process for an amendment. There are two methods, and they both require three quarters of the states (that is at least 38) to approve any change. Very difficult in the current environment.

    https://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html

  52. 52
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Weirdly, the most vacuous corners of the Beltway media seem to have settled on Trump’s bizarre fixation with Fox News personalities in this weekend’s tweets as valid evidence that he’s a blithering nutbag

    I keep trying to decide whether Trump is a dirtbag, scumbag or nutbag.

    @rikyrah:

    NEW: Florida woman accused of embezzling funds from her job while on probation for embezzling funds from a previous job

    You gotta admire her consistency.

    True story. The girlfriend (and later wife) of a buddy got a job at a S&L and embezzled $5,000. Turns out that years before her father got her a job at the bank he did business with, and it turns out that she was quietly let go for embezzling. Because he was a high value customer, the bank did not prosecute. She never said what she did with the money.

  53. 53
    BroD says:

    I just wrote to my congressman, E.E. Cummings: “National Emergency? We’ve got a real one–flooding in the midwest. Democrats in Congress should take the lead in directing aid to the affected areas.”

  54. 54
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @MomSense:

    To me, the most exhausting part of all this is the constant battle against normalizing any part of Trumpism writ large. It requires constant vigilance and a pretty high level of rage, and both of those are fatiguing.

  55. 55
    WaterGirl says:

    @rikyrah: That seems un-possible. In what world does that even make sense??? I totally believe you, however.

  56. 56

    @NotMax:
    One of the things I like about the Modernist Mac and Cheese is that it’s actually easier than using bechamel. I find it works better with half and half instead of water, and that you can do the mixing with a fork rather than an immersion blender. Oh, and the sauce keeps for more than 1 week, at least if you keep it in a tightly sealed container.

  57. 57
    Brachiator says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Maybe UK pundits are exaggerating, but some are using the term “constitutional crisis” to describe the latest political moves.

    It’s times like this when I almost wish the Queen would step in and straighten stuff out for them.

    I know she wishes she could throw some motherfuckers into the Tower.

  58. 58
    WaterGirl says:

    @BroD: 10 million people affected, I read.

    They might even be the “right” people since I imagine rural areas are most impacted, so they are more likely to be white. I should have looked at the states that were listed to see whether they are red or blue, because that surely makes a difference to the Rs.

  59. 59
  60. 60
    BC in Illinois says:

    A positive note.

    I am in Missouri’s 2nd Congressional District, represented (for want of a more accurate word) by Rep. Ann Wagner (R–safe Republican vote), an invisible party functionary who has never had a town hall in her career – she never had to. St Louis County is trending more Blue each year. There are local activists a-plenty, a strong Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense group, and we were able to get good people on the St Louis County Council and to elect a new County Prosecutor – a former Ferguson city councilman – to replace the old established guy who so badly botched the Ferguson events and prosecutions.

    However, in 2018, we were unable to get rid of Ann Wagner ( who described her vote to remove millions of people from health care as a vote “out of Braveheart – ‘Freedom!’ “). We had three fine candidates: Kelli Dunaway, a former Obama organizer who had the most compelling personal presentation; Mark Osmack, an Afghan war veteran, former aide in Tammy Duckworth’s office (and my personal favorite); and Cort VanOstran, a young lawyer/law professor, who won the primary and gave Ann Wagner the closest race of her career.

    Which brings us to today. I saw a note on Mark Osmack’s FB page inviting us to

    Everything you want to know about campaigns (and shouldn’t be afraid to ask)! Join myself, Cort VanOstran, Kelli Dunnaway and others as we debunk, layout, unpack campaigns. We really do hope to see you there. #Onward

    This was the best thing I’ve seen in a while. I don’t know who will be the best candidate to beat Ann Wagner in 595 days, but I really do want the Missouri Second District to have its head on straight. We have the same danger as Democrats elsewhere, of re-fighting Hillary-Bernie wars. (It’s not far under the surface. Just mention either name.)

    But it’s good to see the three 30-something candidates of the last cycle working as a team for the next cycle.

    Building Blue Launch – St. Louis Training
    WHO
    Candidates, future candidates, activists, volunteers, progressive change makers, Democratic committee members, & anyone seeking training.

    WHAT
    For a training organized by former candidates Kelli Dunaway, Mark Osmack, and Cort VanOstran featuring trainers from Camp Obama. Several tracks tailored to candidates, campaign managers, and progressive activists will be covered.

    This is exactly what we need.

  61. 61
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @rikyrah: That’s just a super weird response. I guess he means that if we can’t get law in place for equal treatment, he’d support the ERA?

    But… we can’t get the law in place. Even when we’ve tried it often gets torn up by republican SC judges.

  62. 62
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Cermet: A youngish couple in my extended family will be welcoming their first child in the next week or two. For nine months all I have been able to think has been, “Why are you doing this, this poor girl will be here for most of this century and all the havoc and ruin that is sure to come.”

    Obviously I can’t and don’t say that aloud.

    As for this presidency, I try reminding myself that most of the world has governments that are just as awful or worse. I don’t know why I find that comforting.

  63. 63
    laura says:

    I’ve been in moderation each time I’ve attempted to post on this subject, so w/o link-fu, the Buddhist Monk Thich Nhah Hahn is preparing to die. Thich Nhah Hahn is a warrior for peace, credited with the theme of mindfulness, and was of immense comfort and peace as my parents sailed, sickened, died and the demands of grief and post death matters. We included one of his message of kindness on mother’s prayer card.
    Some of you who struggle with the increasing awfulness of our times may too find comfort in his writings, his poetry and his beliefs.
    Be present, be mindful, be kind to yourself and those who are in pain.

  64. 64
    MomSense says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Exactly. The other problem is that they keep changing the standards. If the president does w it would be unacceptable and then he does. Then it becomes if the president does x it will be unacceptable. He blows past that and the media recalibrate to if the president does y…

    I’m back on motherfucking D ready to burn it all down.

  65. 65
    NotMax says:

    @Roger Moore

    The Instant Pot makes preparing basic mac ‘n’ cheese too easy.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    ;)

  66. 66
    Brachiator says:

    @gene108:

    Didn’t Meghan McCain recently say she is a Trump supporter?

    Still wondering why anyone in the John Sydney McCain household doesn’t hate Trump, with the fury of a thousand suns, the way Trump shits all over McCain.

    But they fall in line like loyal Republicans

    Apparently, she cannot quit the party despite the continual and gratuitous scorn that Trump heaps on McCain’s memory. It is also another sign that Trump is temperamentally unfit to be president.

  67. 67
    Skepticat says:

    “Nothing really matters anymore, does it?”

    I read this as “Nothing real matters.”

    @tokyokie: What is this self-discipline of which you speak?

  68. 68
    MomSense says:

    @lamh36:

    Truth.

  69. 69
    Mandalay says:

    @WaterGirl: That’s how I interpreted it as well, and his response is fine to me, yet O’Rourke gets slammed in that twitter thread for his answer.

    Which goes to show that a finely honed accurate answer matters far less than telling people what they want or expect to hear. If you don’t believe that, consider who is our president right now.

    If O’Rourke had just said instead “Fuck yeah!!!…..Duh!!!” he would have knocked it out of the park.

  70. 70

    @Brachiator:

    I keep trying to decide whether Trump is a dirtbag, scumbag or nutbag.

    All of the above.

  71. 71
    WaterGirl says:

    @BC in Illinois: That is heartening, thanks for taking the time to type that up.

  72. 72
    Brachiator says:

    @laura:

    I’ve been in moderation each time I’ve attempted to post on this subject, so w/o link-fu, the Buddhist Monk Thich Nhah Hahn is preparing to die.

    Vox had a very thoughtful story about him. Thich Nhat Hanh’s final mindfulness lesson: how to die peacefully

    Very much worth reading. A little background.

    In October 2018, Nhat Hanh stunned his disciples by informing them that he would like to return home to Vietnam to pass his final days at the Tu Hieu root temple in Hue, where he became a monk in 1942 at age 16.

    As Time’s Liam Fitzpatrick wrote, Nhat Hanh was exiled from Vietnam for his antiwar activism from 1966 until he was finally invited back in 2005. But his return to his homeland is less about political reconciliation than something much deeper. And it contains lessons for all of us about how to die peacefully and how to let go of the people we love.

  73. 73
    Renie says:

    Here’s a joke to make you laugh: Nunes is suing Twitter and some of its users, for $250 million dollars over anti-conservative ‘shadow bans’ and smears. Hope he goes thru with it and the judge makes him pay Twitter court costs for filing such a ridiculous lawsuit.

  74. 74
    Brachiator says:

    @rikyrah:

    Beto O’Rourke is asked if he supports the Equal Rights Amendment

    “If we are unable to do this legislatively, or any other way, then yes.”

    What the fuck does this even mean?

    That he’s cute, but stupid?

  75. 75
    Zelma says:

    I haven’t decided whether it’s fury or tiredness or old age or waiting for spring, but I am more depressed than I have ever been and I don’t do depression. Spent the weekend with my son who works on Capitol Hill. When asked what he thought of the situation by a friend, he responded, “It’s worse than you can imagine.” Not encouraging.

  76. 76
    jeffreyw says:

    @Raoul:

    You aren’t imagining things, John.

    The country is in bottomless fall, and our news industry is as invested as ever in treating ‘both sides’ as having relatively equal standing and role in our demise.

    We no longer have a news industry. We do have an entertainment industry that masquerades as such but the only news these days comes from what are essentially boutique shops.

  77. 77
    tokyokie says:

    @Skepticat:

    What is this self-discipline of which you speak?

    I think it’s mostly the ability to not look at the top of the microwave (where the Thin Mints are) while opening the refrigerator next to it.

  78. 78
    Ohio Mom says:

    @NotMax: One of my earliest memories is eating at a midtown Horn and Hardart. We had just finished looking at the big department stores’ Christmas windows and the display at Rockefeller Center. I think I must have been to the automat before because that part of the evening felt familiar.

    My older sister nudged me, and pointed to a Santa Claus sitting down to eat soup several tables away. Now I already knew Santa was fake but then the most alarming thing happened: he took off his beard! I knew body parts were not removable and I was very freaked out.

  79. 79
    ola azul says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Weirdly, the most vacuous corners of the Beltway media seem to have settled on Trump’s bizarre fixation with Fox News personalities in this weekend’s tweets as valid evidence that he’s a blithering nutbag. The constant lying and destructive and cruel policies didn’t do it, but going to the mat for Carlson and Pirro did. Strange.

    Key to this peculiar reaction, for me, is the constant lying and cruel policies touches not their beautiful minds. Fucking with the prerogatives of insular media “stars” hits ’em where they live.

    The thin-fool line closes ranks yet again.

  80. 80
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mandalay: It’s like people are looking for a reason to get mad at Beto. Sometimes it seems that even here on BJ we are falling into the trap of trashing the Dem candidates that aren’t on our own personal short list. Falling into the trap of resenting Dem candidates who are faring better than the ones that are on respective our personal short lists.

    I keep wishing that at least here on BJ — that instead of doing that we could talk up the candidates we prefer and share information that helps other people learn about the democratic candidates and the qualities we do like. (Again Wilmer is not a Dem, so fuck him, anything goes.)

    Doing otherwise just creates resentment and encourages rifts and hurts us in the general election.

    I don’t want BJ to end up like Daily Kos when it kind of imploded.

    Shorter WaterGirl: We don’t have to fall into the trap of a zero sum game. Trashing your preferred candidate doesn’t improve the chances of my preferred candidate; it just helps bring all Dems down.

  81. 81
    trollhattan says:

    @gene108:
    Completely. Meghan can stamp her feet all she wants when Trump shits on dad’s reputation but she still saves her bestest venom for those damn liberals. She’s more knee-jerk Republican than dad was. He sponsored campaign-finance reform lite and “saved” healthcare; she argues with Whoopi.

  82. 82
    laura says:

    @Brachiator: thank you.

  83. 83
    KrakenJack says:

    @NotMax: We have some King Arthur Flour supplied powdered Vermont Cheddar Cheese that is quite good for topping popcorn. I’m sure the Mac Mix would work for that, too.

  84. 84
    Mike in NC says:

    Brazil’s new homophobic strongman is coming to DC tomorrow to meet with Fat Bastard, having already granted an audience to scumbag Steve Bannon. No doubt groveling homophobe Mike Pence will want to be in on the meeting.

  85. 85
    karen marie says:

    @Brachiator: Meghan just pretends it never happened, every single time. That’s why she was hired to be on The View. She fits in with the other Very Sensible People on your TV very well. While she may disapprove of Trump, she very much understands that her continued lucrative employment depends on her loyalty to the Republican party, despite its support of Hair Hitler.

    She’s a useless bag of hot air. Which makes me wonder – how did she get into Columbia? She certainly hasn’t demonstrated even average intelligence.

  86. 86
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @MomSense:

    The other problem is that they keep changing the standards.

    Yep. Excellent point.

  87. 87
    trollhattan says:

    @Ohio Mom:
    My kid was born three months after 9/11 and a couple weeks after the fall of the Taliban. Welcome to the world, sweetie!

    But she witnessed the election of Barack Obama, so there’s that. She’ll be able to vote against whatever table scraps of the Trump admin are around November 2020 and hopefully propel a woman into the office of president.

    Hopefully your friends’ forthcoming kid will never recollect being alive during the Trump presidency*.

  88. 88
    tobie says:

    @WaterGirl: 100% agree. I’ve been dealing all day with a flooded basement and still have a full night of pumping ahead, but just checking out the commentary here is upsetting. Shall we dredge up which candidates voted for Reagan, which reversed their position on healthcare recently, which one once opposed gun control, which was insensitive to sexual harrassment among their own staff? No, no, no! Substantial policy and/or ideogical disagreements are legit. Everything else is bullshit.

  89. 89
    West of the Rockies says:

    @chopper:

    Are they made with real Girl Scouts?

  90. 90
    Ohio Mom says:

    @laura: Mindfulness is so much a part of popular culture now (at least the term is, if not much of the actual practice) that it is interesting to me to learn about the monk who brought this idea to us here in the West — as usual, Vox put together a nice primer for newbies to the topic.

  91. 91
    cckids says:

    @WaterGirl: It’s definitely red states; mostly Nebraska & South Dakota. Here’s a CNN piece showing some of the flooding in satellite images; I grew up in central NE, and the stuff being posted on FB is heartbreaking, no matter the politics of the people. And it started last Tuesday, really hit on Weds., and continues, while pretty much no national media noticed until Saturday/Sunday. Of course, no mentions from DT at all, even though they are definitely “his” people. Even Offutt Air Force Base is underwater; they evacuated the planes.

    The videos of the ice on what are usually small rivers is horrifying. Huge, SUV-size chunks of ice, the river way, WAY out of it’s banks, taking out multiple bridges & roads. And, of course, it is calving season. A cousin posted her neighbors got back out as soon as possible (like, Friday), and 30 – THIRTY- calves had been born, and died, in those three days; they drowned or froze. Another person whose house was inundated came back and there are basketball-sized chunks of ice all over the house; up to the kitchen counters. It’s hard to describe the extent of this event; over half of NE, from Kansas up to and into South Dakota.

  92. 92
    ruemara says:

    @Brachiator: That’s what I’ve been thinking lately. Apologies to any Beto fans here. I think I’ve narrowed down my top three to Yang, Buttigieg & Harris, respectively.

  93. 93
    karen marie says:

    @trollhattan: He “sponsored campaign-finance reform” – “lite” or otherwise – to get out from under his involvement as one of the five corrupt United States senators known as “the Keating 5.” McCain gets no credit for that. And his vote to “save” the ACA was entirely self-serving. He had an overriding need to be seen to have courage and to be a hero. That it was a net good for the country does not change that he was a fraud and no different than any other Republican on the make.

  94. 94
    Ruckus says:

    @MomSense:
    The MSM has a shitton to answer for concerning the election of Trump and his shit show. It’s been obvious for decades that he was and is far worse that a useless piece of whatever is worse than shit, maybe radioactive shit, who knows. That he got any thing but negative coverage for his efforts is a huge marker against the MSM as a whole. I’m not even sure it’s both siderism any more, I think they liked his tax policy stance because the owners stood to gain a lot. They were willing to burn it all down for a the money. It of course has been said that money is the root of all evil and in the case of Trump it’s absolutely true. Just because he doesn’t have much of it doesn’t mean he isn’t involved in the illegal use and taking of it. Our business world is seemingly corrupt, from the big drug companies to the MIC to the financial institutions, insurance companies, basically every facet of our economy. And now almost the entire federal government is either corrupt or useless because we have nothing resembling a reasonably functioning government, all stemming from the last election. Every facet of our federal government is being destroyed by complete dysfunction at the top, the conservative holy grail.

  95. 95
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Is he as handsome as Siddharth Malhotra?

    I liked the actress in this clip (Parineeti??). Very expressive face.

  96. 96
    Ohio Mom says:

    @trollhattan: No, my cousin’s son and his wife’s new baby will probably not have any memories of the Trump years (assuming he doesn’t get re-elected, please powers that animate the universe, no!). But she will definitely be around for climate change to really get in gear, and that is what makes me sad for her.

  97. 97
    trollhattan says:

    @karen marie:
    Not defending him so much as pointing out his kid can’t even claim to be his equal.

  98. 98
    Jay says:

    @WaterGirl:

    👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

  99. 99
    West of the Rockies says:

    @BroD:

    EE Cummings? Curious…must be a pretty how district.

  100. 100
    WaterGirl says:

    @ruemara: You agree with “cute but stupid”, which is totally dismissive, and then you follow that with a fake apology to any Beto fans here? I truly did not expect something like that from you.

    Should we talk about the dumb thing Yang said today? Should I call him an idiot? That gets us where?

  101. 101
    drdavechemist says:

    @West of the Rockies: Is that like “the shepherd’s pie peppered with actual shepherd” from Sweeney Todd?

  102. 102
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    The MSM has a shitton to answer for concerning the election of Trump and his shit show.

    People voted for Trump. People ignored every goddam newspaper which said “Don’t vote for this dope,” including newspaper and magazines which had endorsed the GOP candidate for 100 years.

    The Republican Party knew early on that Trump was trouble and a disrupter, and let him into their party anyway. Then they decided to back him 110% and continue to do so.

    The MSM ain’t no kingmaker.

    It of course has been said that money is the root of all evil and in the case of Trump it’s absolutely true.

    No.

    For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.

    — 1 Timothy 6:10, NIV

  103. 103
    MomSense says:

    @Ruckus:

    If I could copy and paste with my phone – I would. Truth you wrote. 👏👏👏👏

  104. 104
    Brachiator says:

    @WaterGirl:

    You agree with “cute but stupid”, which is totally dismissive, and then you follow that with a fake apology to any Beto fans here?

    I called him cute but stupid, a reversal of the way that some pretty women have been dismissed, and a nod to how some voters and reporters are swooning all over his hotness. And I ain’t apologizing to nobody.

    I meant it as a bit of a joke, given this election cycle where you have a lot of women in the contest, making pundits and fools nervous.

  105. 105
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Beto Mania takes Detroit

    (photo #1)

    (photo #2)

  106. 106
    TS (the original) says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Maybe a hopeful suggestion – my Dad’s fridge did the same – the electrician walked in and said must be the thermostat. Replaced it – 20 minutes. All good.

  107. 107
    West of the Rockies says:

    @drdavechemist:

    Wednesday Addams says the line in the film version.

  108. 108
    Ruckus says:

    @rikyrah:
    Beto is getting roasted at that link.
    And the posters are right the answer should have been, YES. He’s tried to make political sense and say because we can’t get an amendment we will have to do this through legislation. Which isn’t the same even though he’s correct and is why he’s rightfully getting roasted.

  109. 109
    Mandalay says:

    @tobie:

    …which was insensitive to sexual harassment among their own staff? No, no, no!

    Sorry, but that is a bridge too far for me. Gillibrand was outspoken in the ousting of Al Franken, said Bill Clinton should have resigned, happily embraced the mantle of being the gender equality senator, and made #MeToo a cornerstone of her campaign.

    So when Gillibrand fails to properly handle sexual harassment allegations made by one of her employees it’s entirely appropriate to bring that up here. Being more positive about our field of candidates and not worrying about the small stuff is fine, but looking the other way when candidates truly screw up is just wrong.

  110. 110
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Brachiator: Booooo. Boooo, Brachiator, boooooooooo (video)

  111. 111
    Ruckus says:

    @Brachiator:

    I keep trying to decide whether Trump is a dirtbag, scumbag or nutbag.

    He is.

  112. 112
    tobie says:

    @Mandalay: I need to look into the details of what happened with her staff. But I stand by my point that drive-by criticisms based on a gaffe are not helping our discourse at all. Every candidate out there has tripped up a few times since declaring. It’s human. Now I need to go back to pumping so I can have a new sump pump installed tomorrow.

  113. 113
    bjacques says:

    Since the previous thread is dead and this one is open, I thought I’d call attention to that fellow whose anti-Beto article Jeffro posted. Steve Hilton used to be former UK PM David Cameron’s advisor, presenting himself as a Conservative Stewart Brand, barefooted and full of wacky! Out of the box! But totally Tory suggestions like eliminating maternity leave entirely. It was Hilton who came up with the “Big Society”, a half-assed call for voluntarism to replace the social services that George Osborne as Chancellor would later gut entirely.

    Big Society didn’t go very far, and Hilton got the heave-ho and he decamped to America. He tried to peddle his wares to the GOP, who preferred their own, blunter ideological thuggery. After an unsuccessful attempt to re-enter Tory politics, he sort of disappered

    Now he turns up again, with this screed against Beto. I’ve read a lot of takedowns of various Democratic challengers lately by the Guardian’s tag team, but Hilton’s borders on the obsessive.

    Anyway, just a heads-up about this dude.

  114. 114
    sukabi says:

    It’s exhausting..but there are more than a few WTFs that make you giggle…

    This one could provide much hilarity in the coming weeks.

    In her endless barrage of tweets, Devin Nunes’ Mom maliciously attacked every aspect of Nunes’ character, honesty, integrity, ethics and fitness to perform his duties as a United States Congressman,” Nunes’ lawyers wrote.

  115. 115
    Jay says:

    Booman has some great reading up on Bazille, Electability and Following the Money.

  116. 116
    Mandalay says:

    @Brachiator: @tobie:

    I stand by my point that drive-by criticisms based on a gaffe are not helping our discourse at all.

    On that we agree – Beto’s response was no biggie, and will be completely forgotten by the weekend.

    It wasn’t even a gaffe really, and it would have been a fine answer in a C-Span interview on a Sunday evening. He’ll surely learn from the experience, and give a dumbed-down-but-more-acceptable answer next time.

  117. 117
  118. 118
    Brachiator says:

    @tobie:

    But I stand by my point that drive-by criticisms based on a gaffe are not helping our discourse at all.

    It’s too early to be serious.

  119. 119
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    An explosive new report from the New York Times claims that Deutsche Bank employees determined that President Donald Trump was lying to them about his personal wealth, which was vastly less than what he’d claimed.

    According to the Times, Trump tried to secure a loan for a hotel project in Chicago by telling Deutsche Bank that he was worth $3 billion. After examining his finances, however, bank employees put his estimated net worth at just $788 million, or less than one third what he had claimed.

    Bank fraud and falsifying business records are felonies in New York state, punishable by a 8 to 25 year prison sentence.

  120. 120
    rikyrah says:

    🌊Fras🌊 ppl’s🌊 Choice (@fras99) Tweeted:
    Who likes Tom Ford?

    Tom Ford refuses to dress Melania Trump: “I have no interest in dressing a glorified escort who steals speeches and has bad taste in men.” https://t.co/zlpt02ovjh https://twitter.com/fras99/status/1107764803907579909?s=17

  121. 121
    Mo MacArbie says:

    Beto may have a line to walk on the question though. He needs to show that he’s in favor of equality without alienating the portion of the Dem electorate suffering from economic performance anxiety.

  122. 122

    @Brachiator: Yes, that’s Parineeti. She was good in that movie. She plays the misfit nerdy girl, who pursues an engineering degree against the wishes of family elders. I loved the movie, its rare that you have a lead in a rom-com who pursues science as a career.
    She can sing too!

  123. 123
    WaterGirl says:

    @Brachiator:

    I called him cute but stupid, a reversal of the way that some pretty women have been dismissed, and a nod to how some voters and reporters are swooning all over his hotness. And I ain’t apologizing to nobody.

    “Some voters and reporters who have been swooning over Beto’s hotness” are not here on BJ.

    But the rest of us are, and dismissive attacks on Democratic candidates are not helping. They are certainly not helping me, anyway. Beto isn’t even at the top of my list at this point, but you are picking up the talking points of the people who are attacking Democratic candidates.

    We are our own worst enemies, and I am sick of it. The right is scared shitless of Beto, and you are making their talking points for them. Go you!

    You might not agree with the guy’s answer, but he is not stupid.

  124. 124
  125. 125
    Gravenstone says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Twist the knife further, describe his “wealth” as barely a quarter of his claim.

  126. 126
    Brachiator says:

    @WaterGirl:

    But the rest of us are, and dismissive attacks on Democratic candidates are not helping.

    You may certainly read it as a dismissive attack.

    The only candidate I have dismissed is Sanders, and I’ve even cut back on that.

    I don’t care about talking points and resist calibrating a little humor based on fear. As always, your mileage may vary.

  127. 127
    karen marie says:

    @trollhattan: I appreciate that. I reflexively blow a gasket whenever anyone uses that “campaign finance reform” bullshit to defend McCain, because it’s utter bullshit. It’s a shame meteors don’t discriminate.

  128. 128
    karen marie says:

    @Ruckus: I would really like Beto to recognize that he’s not ready to seek the nomination. He’s obviously not getting great advice on any of this. All he’s doing is damaging himself for future campaign efforts. It’s painful to watch.

  129. 129
    karen marie says:

    @bjacques: Kevin Kruse did a great thread on twitter about the failure of “voluntarism” during the Depression. When the economy goes into the shitter, or social programs are eliminated, religious and other charities don’t have and never had the wherewithal to cover everyone’s ass.

  130. 130
    rikyrah says:

    @Ruckus:
    It.wasn’t a hard question. Not, for a Democrat. No needle to thread.
    The answer should have been YES.

  131. 131
    Ruckus says:

    @rikyrah:
    Xactly.
    Yes it’s early, yes what he said was correct, it was still the wrong answer. It’s not a damaging answer, it was just too much of an answer for the question. A lot of people won’t see the answer for what it was. They will think what a lot of the people on the tweet steam said, it was the wrong answer. A politician needs to be smarter than just having a true answer, he has to see what most people will think about his answer and say that and add more if it is warranted.

  132. 132
    satby says:

    @WereBear: I like this new theme! Nice and bright and easy to read.

  133. 133
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    Bank fraud and falsifying business records are felonies in New York state, punishable by a 8 to 25 year prison sentence.

    I’d like 25, of course, but will cheerfully settle for 8.

  134. 134
    jk says:

    @rikyrah:

    Beto O’Rourke is asked if he supports the Equal Rights Amendment
    “If we are unable to do this legislatively, or any other way, then yes.”
    What the fuck does this even mean?

    It means Beto is not ready for primetime. I’m sick and tired of this fucking Betomania. He clearly does not have the same grasp of the issues as Warren, Harris, Booker, Inslee etc. It’s nauseating to see so many voters slobbering and swooning over this guy who has such a modest record of achievement.

  135. 135
    Ruckus says:

    @karen marie:
    I don’t really agree. It’s early so there is time to explain answers like this one. He gave the exact correct answer and as someone said above it would have been fine in a C-Span interview but on the campaign trail the answers need to be simplified down to the minimums. Yes would have been an acceptable answer and if asked for more he could easily added to it to show that he really does know what he’s talking about.
    ETA An example is me. My answers are way too long some/most of the time. Which is OK when you can just skip my answers because I’m not running for office and anyone can think anything they want of me. And we do have twitteritus in that we seem to believe that everything needs to be reduced to the minimum number of words. It doesn’t

  136. 136
    Ohio Mom says:

    @karen marie: It’s obvious right now. The economy is humming along and even so, charity does not begin to meet the need that presently exists, and that is with something of a government safety net in place. There is no way charity could make up a bigger gap in a downturn or in the face of further cuts to the safety net.

    It’s well-documented that most charity dollars stay close to the home of the givers: money goes to the givers’ churches (synagogues, temples, etc.), and to their alma maters, followed by the cultural institutions they patronize, the community center their kids attend programs at, and so forth.

  137. 137
    Ruckus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Could we split it down the middle and call it 16 1/2 yrs?

  138. 138
    Ruckus says:

    @tokyokie:
    What is this self-discipline you speak of?

    My only level is to not purchase whatever it is that I’m not supposed to eat. And all of my favorite food groups are in those not supposed to eat aisles of the store. Cookies, ice cream, chips……

  139. 139
    Mo MacArbie says:

    @jk: I disagree. Bros are going to vote too, maybe for Beto, Wilmer, or Uncle Joe. They’re not as enlightened as any of us would like them to be, but there are a lot of them there. Beto doesn’t need to be the candidate of equality. He probably couldn’t be. To repurpose the zinger about the insufficiently-progressive, why vote for woman-lite? There are plenty of well-qualified women in the race. Beto just needs to not suck on the issue, and being lukewarm on a constitutional amendment is a far cry from the forced-birth crowd.

    I’m not saying you’re wrong to prefer anyone else. I haven’t picked anyone myself yet. I’m just here to shit ice cream and fart rainbows for now. Kumbaya.

  140. 140
    jk says:

    @Mo MacArbie:

    I’m tired of people acting as if Beto had beaten Cruz by 25 points. Too many people are rushing to anoint this guy for almost winning a Senate race. As far as Biden and Sanders, they’re too damn old. We have a very impressive roster of declared candidates and I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the nominee will be anyone except Beto, Biden, or Sanders.

  141. 141
    satby says:

    Renewing my call for universal Thorazine drips for everyone until we throw that bum out of the White House and his enablers out of Congress.

  142. 142
    sgrAstar says:

    @WaterGirl: well said. We have to remain committed to supporting any Dem at all, over ykw. ‘M donating a few dollars to a few candidates, just to help them make the cut. We can’t start attacking our own people this early…or, perhaps, ever. Note: not including non-dems in my personal blanket amnesty.

  143. 143
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @WaterGirl: At the moment, I can see myself spending a lot less time here during election season. I am pretty impressed by the candidates who have announced so far, and I think that those candidates who fall into the second as the process moves on will still be raising their profiles for future national or state level offices. At the same time, I see people here getting ready to start a circular firing squad.

    A while back, lamh36 declared for Harris and said something to the effect of “If you want to come after Harris, you better come correct.” I think that should apply to every candidate. Eyes on the prize.

  144. 144
    WaterGirl says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m hoping we can get on a more productive road here because circular firing squads aren’t my thing. Eyes on the prize is right. We should stop tearing down Dems, especially for bullshit stuff. Somebody that thinks that climate change can wait is one thing; a stumble on an answer or doesn’t support every little thing that you do, that’s another, and we can’t afford to be attacking candidates over bullshit stuff.

    It seems to me that we are setting ourselves up for rifts and that’s part of how we got Trump. We are smarter than this. I don’t get angry very often, but I feel strongly about this. We cannot afford to fuck this up.

  145. 145
    Ohio Mom says:

    I dunno. I don’t take every comment I don’t agree with as fighting words.

    One regular is already committed to Candidate X, another is wild over Candidate Y, a third thinks little of X and Y but Z! Z is IT!

    I just think it gives me a little more insight into that particular commentator, lets me know them a little better.

    It is only upsetting that someone else bad mouths your candidate (Too old! Too young!) if you let it upset you.

    Maybe this is easy for me to say because I am far from making up my mind. I can see pluses and minuses to just about all of them. Except for the obvious ones that have no pluses (Wilmer, Gabbard, Schultz, and there are probably a few more I haven’t heard of yet).

  146. 146
    Miss Bianca says:

    Jesus Chicken-Fried Christ, all y’all. How any of you can have a favorite and be ripping up at each other over him or her, this early in the game, is a mystery to me. no Tulsi, no Wilmer, and every other declared candidate can be Game On, far as I am concerned. For some reason, I just can’t seem to summon the energy to give a crap yet.

  147. 147
    rikyrah says:

    @NotMax:

    How did you do it?
    Mac and cheese easy? Do tell😌

  148. 148
    debbie says:

    @rikyrah:

    Love it!

  149. 149
    NotMax says:

    @rikyrah

    If you look up Instant Pot macaroni and cheese, there’s probably 10,000 recipes out there. I’ll try to give the pared down version I’ve tested and refer to as basic mac ‘n’ cheese as succinctly as possible.

    1) Heat 2 cups water or chicken broth, a chunk of butter (1 or 2 tbl), about ½ tsp of ground mustard and either black or red pepper to your liking on the low saute setting, stirring now and again until the butter is completely melted.
    2) Turn Instant Pot off before the liquid comes to a boil and and add a package of uncooked macaroni. Stir to coat. Add additional water if needed until the macaroni is just barely covered. It’s okay if a few noodles are above the liquid, they’ll settle during cooking.
    3) Place and lock lid, with vent control in the sealed position. Set Instant Pot to pressure cook on high for half the time recommended on the package of macaroni.
    4) When the pressure cooking countdown reaches zero and the IP beeps, release pressure (carefully) using quick release method.
    5) When the pressure button drops, turn off the IP. Remove lid and stir (I find a bamboo paddle works well for this) for a little bit until remaining liquid (if any) is becoming absorbed.
    6) Alternately add milk and cheese and keep stirring well. 1 cup of milk total and as much cheese as suits you. The residual heat will melt most of the cheese as you stir.
    7) Replace lid and let stand for a few minutes, then remove lid and keep stirring again (any remaining unmelted cheese will be soft and melty by now) until the consistency is right for you.

    Have gotten into the habit of adding the contents of a drained small can of mushroom slices along with the milk and cheese and stirring those in at the same time. If you prefer a super creamy m ‘n’ c, can add and stir in some cream cheese first before adding the milk and cheese.

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