The Shitposter in the White House

Here’s a Reuters article from two years ago:

Exclusive: Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam – sources
Julia Edwards Ainsley, Dustin Volz, Kristina Cooke

WASHINGTON/SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – The Trump administration wants to revamp and rename a U.S. government program designed to counter all violent ideologies so that it focuses solely on Islamist extremism, five people briefed on the matter told Reuters.

The program, “Countering Violent Extremism,” or CVE, would be changed to “Countering Islamic Extremism” or “Countering Radical Islamic Extremism,” the sources said, and would no longer target groups such as white supremacists who have also carried out bombings and shootings in the United States.

According to the DHS page for the program, the name wasn’t changed. But since Trump-appointed people are running it, I suspect its mission has.

Trump’s hateful rhetoric about Islam has been utterly normalized, but maybe it’s time to un-normalize it. To quote Bob Schooley on Twitter, “It would be really great in light of New Zealand if the press could go back and look at Trump’s record on this and give it half the attention Ilhan Omar’s bad statements got.”

I won’t hold my breath. Maybe the media is afraid he’ll attack them, which he already does, every day. The fact is, Trump views anyone who opposes him as an enemy who deserves to be violently rebuked.

Just yesterday, during a routine interview with the right-wing hate site Breitbart News, Trump casually threatened his political enemies. I laughed about it then:

Doesn’t seem funny today.

I don’t know what we can do about this, fellow citizens, except support the vulnerable in our own communities and mobilize to vote out Trump and his enablers next year.

That seems insufficient in the face of such evil. If y’all have any ideas (peaceful), please share.

Aside from that, open thread.






182 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    I take him seriously. And, so, he, and his followers, should be dealt with accordingly.

    I am, however, beyond angry with the MSM who continues to dance around his racism and the racism of his phucking cult.

  2. 2
    Martin says:

    Trumps people aren’t tough. They’re cowards, that compensate for their cowardice with excessive firepower. They’ve been screaming about tyranny for years and other than a few lone wolves done fuck-all about it. The White House isn’t going to be taken down by a dozen losers with AR-15s. The Secret Service will make quick work of them. It’ll be taken down by 2 million unarmed women marching on DC. The Secret Service has no plan for them.

  3. 3
    Ian G. says:

    Am I the only one who thought, when seeing Shitgibbon’s threat to use the military/police against his political opponents, “Nicolae Ceausescu thought the military was on his side too.”?

  4. 4
    Ruckus says:

    I got nothing.
    You are correct, we have the worst of the worst as president. Is he the ligit person to win that election? I’d say no, but then that’s where we are no matter what. Winning next year seems to be the only option, even if he dropped dead from a coronary tomorrow, it wouldn’t get a lot better until the election. This is what happens when you put shitheads in charge, you get shit.
    We as a nation have to have a talk and see, do we want to be the nation of all of the people or a nation of the palest of the people. I vote for all, it’s far better looking that way.

  5. 5
    rikyrah says:

    Candace Owens Was Named in the New Zealand Shooter’s Alleged Manifesto. But Christchurch Is Bigger Than Her

    Anne Branigin
    Today 11:00am

    Every time I write about Candace Owens, I feel manipulated.

    I feel manipulated because Candace Owens, on her own, is not newsworthy. She’s not witty or particularly charismatic. She’s billed as a commentator and activist, but to describe her grasp on politics, history, gender, or race as shallow would be doing a great disservice to the word, because shallow still has depth. Activism implies, well, activity, or purpose. Activists tend to have a moral center—however questionable or controversial.

    Owens has never successfully articulated such a moral center, and her leap from running an anti-Trump site in 2016 to grabbing Kanye West’s “free thinker” coattails in 2018 implies one doesn’t exist.

    Owens’ only gift is grift, and she’s been exceptional at it in a way that says far more about conservative white people’s grievances than it says about her. Her currency is outrage, and her endgame is attention.

    ………………

    But I’m writing about Owens because she’s the troll a mass shooter in Christchurch, New Zealand named in his alleged manifesto. The shooter, whose name has not been released by police as of Friday morning, opened fire on two mosques, killing at least 49 people in what can rightfully be described as a terrorist attack.

    “The person that has influenced me above all was Candace Owens,” the suspect wrote. “Each time she spoke I was stunned by her insights and her own views helped push me further and further into the belief of violence over meekness. Though I will have to disavow some of her beliefs, the extreme actions she calls for are too much, even for my tastes.”

  6. 6
    FelonyGovt says:

    January 21, 2021 can’t come soon enough.

  7. 7
    RAVEN says:

    @Ruckus: But . but, the babieeessss!

  8. 8
    germy says:

    An old clip. Trump was known to those of us on the east coast.

    Republicans: “Late night hosts these days make fun of Donald Trump too much! Johnny Carson would never do that!”

    Johnny Carson: *literally does jokes about Trump evicting people from their homes* pic.twitter.com/H0XS3FPy6M

    — Mike Drucker (@MikeDrucker) March 14, 2019

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    I struggle with the balance between engaging in the appropriate level of necessary mockery and maintaining the level of gravitas that the situation calls for. Both in my own comments and reading and listening to others. I don’t know if there is a right answer. It’s probably more of a need to remain aware that we don’t fall into one extreme or the other.

    Other than that, vote for Dems. People who think there’s a solution that doesn’t involve that will make things worse for us all.

  10. 10
    NotMax says:

    I don’t know what we can do about this

    We can do our best.

  11. 11
    Mike in NC says:

    Waiting patiently for prominent Republicans to denounce the Trump Manifesto.

  12. 12
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    OT: I recently out-of-the-blue remembered an old Carson bit where he “tested” common sayings. One was that “Old soldiers never die, but simply fade away.” The bit was and old soldier would come on the stage and Carson would “shoot” him with a gun (fake, of course). The laugh line was something like “Nope, he’s just dead.”

    The people who complain about “political correctness” would have shit fit if Kimmel or Colbert did something like that today.

  13. 13
    Mike G says:

    Of course, Orange Assclown says neo-nazis are “very fine people”, he wouldn’t want to tarnish them.

    “The person that has influenced me above all was Candace Owens,” the suspect wrote.

    How was Pam Atlas’ media career affected by being the muse of Anders Breivik?

  14. 14
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Mike in NC: I hear a sainthood goes well with that degree of waiting.

  15. 15

    What T said was not funny yesterday nor is it funny today.

  16. 16
    kindness says:

    I really hope folks are paying proper attention. When someone says they are disappointed they couldn’t go out and kill libs because Hillary lost, you should believe (some of) them. Not all of them. Most are more than likely Keyboard Warriors. But it only takes a small percentage of those folks to bring on Trumplnacht.

  17. 17
    Cowboy Diva says:

    I had to remind myself of what TH White said (using Wart’s voice):
    “Might does not make right! Right makes right!”

  18. 18
    trollhattan says:

    Watching Jacinda Ardern the last half day makes me long even more for a qualified, dignified leader.

  19. 19
    Mart says:

    Not to sidetrack from Presidential hate speech… but has any journalist read Omar’s “bad statements”? They all pile on her for saying something bad, but never play or elaborate on her extended comments. Just common knowledge that the Muslim woman said bad stuff about Jews. I read the entirety of her comments. I found nothing offensive towards Jews about her concerns over right wing political ideology and lobbyists from the state of Israel, and how we are required to never question their policies. Israel is not a monolith. There are plenty of folks that think the right wing policies are wrong. Where was the unified press condemnation when the R ‘s invited the corrupt Benjamin Netanyahu to speak to Congress as an FU to Obama and the Democratic party? Realize Israel is a critical defense partner in a dangerous part of the world. But the leadership stirs a lot of shit up that many feel is not always in everyone’s best interest.

  20. 20
    trollhattan says:

    @kindness:
    Yup. For every twenty Jim Hofts there’s a Stephen Paddock.

  21. 21
    trollhattan says:

    @Mart:
    Sam Bee did. I’m not sure about anybody collecting a journalist’s paycheck. She actually “gets it” and there’s a mighty struggle to deny her the agency to understand how things work in 2019.

  22. 22
    trollhattan says:

    I’ll file this under Not Helping.

    Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey has recorded a podcast with a fitness personality who last month repeated an unfounded claim that “vaccines do indeed cause autism” and told his readers not to trust the fact-checking organization Snopes.

    Dorsey thanked podcast host Ben Greenfield in a tweet on Tuesday, writing that he had a “great conversation.” Greenfield wrote on Twitter that the two talked about “advanced stress mitigation tactics, extreme time-saving workouts, DIY cold tubs, hormesis, one-meal-a-day and more.”

    “Thanks Ben,” Dorsey wrote. “Appreciate all you do to simplify the mountain of research focused on increasing one’s healthspan! Grateful for you.”

    A Twitter spokesperson pointed NBC News to the company’s advertising policies about health care, which note that “ads that make claims about the cure, treatment, diagnosis, or prevention of certain diseases and conditions are restricted under our Healthcare policy.”

    A source familiar with the podcast taping who was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly told NBC News that Dorsey and Greenfield did not broach vaccine safety on the podcast. The podcast won’t be released until later in the month.

  23. 23
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rikyrah:

    And Owens did exactly what the killer expected her to do: she deflected and mocked. She couldn’t even be bothered to do the most anodyne condolence tweet.

    That’s why he picked her. Because he knew she would dance like a puppet on his string.

  24. 24
    Kent says:

    @Mart:

    vNot to sidetrack from Presidential hate speech… but has any journalist read Omar’s “bad statements”? They all pile on her for saying something bad, but never play or elaborate on her extended comments. Just common knowledge that the Muslim woman said bad stuff about Jews. I read the entirety of her comments. I found nothing offensive towards Jews about her concerns over right wing political ideology and lobbyists from the state of Israel, and how we are required to never question their policies. Israel is not a monolith. There are plenty of folks that think the right wing policies are wrong. Where was the unified press condemnation when the R ‘s invited the corrupt Benjamin Netanyahu to speak to Congress as an FU to Obama and the Democratic party? Realize Israel is a critical defense partner in a dangerous part of the world. But the leadership stirs a lot of shit up that many feel is not always in everyone’s best interest.

    Exactly. Omar actually said nothing offensive or even moderately controversial AT ALL. Her actual words were paraphrased into something she didn’t actually say and then repeated ad-infinitum in the media. The real melt-down was over her use of the term allegiance. What she actually said was ““I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay to push for allegiance to a foreign country,” in reference to the idea that the entire political establishment in DC must be pro-Israel. Her words were twisted to say that she was critizing Jews for having a dual-allegiance when she never said nor implied any such thing. The political establishment in DC and leaders like Trump do push for blind allegiance to Israel. That’s a fact. And they are not Jewish.

    Hopefully she will have learned something about how the right wing media will deliberately distort anything she says for their own racist partisan purposes simply because she is wearing a hijbab. And will learn to be more concise about her words. But even that might not actually have any effect as they will deliberately distort and misquote her anyway.

  25. 25
    Brachiator says:

    @Ian G.:

    Am I the only one who thought, when seeing Shitgibbon’s threat to use the military/police against his political opponents, “Nicolae Ceausescu thought the military was on his side too.”?

    No, but I like the analogy.

  26. 26
    Kay says:

    There’s some positive signs. The anti-bullying policy in schools. When it started there was a whole chorus of people who said “they’ll never learn that! Bullying others is as natural and inevitable as rain!” I had my doubts myself. I also knew there would be idiots who would interpret it strictly and over-apply it, so we would have some ridiculous results, but once it settles in as “the rule” people put on their common sense hat and that stops.

    But kids did learn it. Not all of them and not always, but they were given a higher standard on how to treat classmates and they met the higher standard. Maybe some of them DID have to tamp down learned or inherent impulses to be assholes! But instead of just throwing in the towel we said “no – you can treat people better and you WILL try to learn” and they got better.

    Donald Trump and his followers are setting standards at rock bottom. The response to that shouldn’t be to go along. We can aspire to “better”. That shouldn’t be sneered at or dismissed by cynics. It’s vital, trying. The longer I live the more I think “trying” is the thing :)

    In a decade bullying an unlucky or disliked or “weird” kid in school will be socially unacceptable. That’s progress. Think how much unnecessary anguish people will be spared by just that one change.

  27. 27
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Mart:

    Not to sidetrack from Presidential hate speech… but has any journalist read Omar’s “bad statements”? They all pile on her for saying something bad, but never play or elaborate on her extended comments.

    Some have (and/or watched the video when available), but many either have not, or are deliberately misrepresenting what she said, as far as I can tell from their writing and writing history. Haven’t done enough sampling to be confident though.
    It’s rather disappointing to watch. This isn’t something technical where they don’t have the background [1]; this is English language text, and they write in the English language. Omar has some issues to work through (more humility and less suppressed bigotry, please) and is overly aggressive IMO, but she’s nowhere near the irredeemable bigot that some are caricaturing her as, plus she has to deal with extreme and overt anti-Islam bigotry herself.
    [1] If you’ve ever been interviewed by a journalist on something where you’re an expert and they’re clueless, you know what I’m talking about. It’s a struggle to apply indirect coercion such that what gets published is not screamingly, egregiously wrong.

  28. 28
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    Does our John Cole know that Cory Booker is dating Rosario Dawson?

  29. 29
    catclub says:

    @Mart:

    They all pile on her for saying something bad, but never play or elaborate on her extended comments.

    It is always easier to pile on if you don’t read the actual statements. Pontificators are not hired for their reading skills, but their pontification skills.
    This is why instead of having experts on a given topic or region comment on events there, the same crowd of pontificators is called on and asked their (not too well informed) opinions. In that class, Thomas Friedman at least had experience reporting from the middle east, so was overqualified.

  30. 30
    trollhattan says:

    Guess who?

    · 37m
    Just spoke with Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, regarding the horrific events that have taken place over the past 24 hours. I informed the Prime Minister….

    ….that we stand in solidarity with New Zealand – and that any assistance the U.S.A. can give, we stand by ready to help. We love you New Zealand!

    Isn’t he….
    ….just adorable?

  31. 31
    catclub says:

    @Brachiator: ummm, Ceaucescu only had the cops and the military for 40 odd years.
    I don’t like the prospect of waiting that long for them to give up on Trump.

  32. 32
    trollhattan says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
    Wait, I thought Booker had been declared gay? Rosario Dawson is an awfully ambitious date as a ruse. Should I now be jealous?

    #Confused

  33. 33

    @trollhattan: I think he’s “helped” enough.

  34. 34
    Kay says:

    What trips me up and makes me feel hopeless is the grievance. The chip on their shoulder. Their belief that other people just existing somehow does them wrong or takes something from them. I don’t know where that comes from.
    You see it with those videos of white people yelling at other people who speak spanish. To me, it’s so easy. Okay- they are NOT talking to you. That seems like enough to just stay out of their business! I cannot imagine thinking I have the ground to object to someone else having a conversation in another language. This has nothing to do with me! I’m not allowed to have an opinion on it, let alone a loud confrontational opinion.

  35. 35
    Kay says:

    @trollhattan:

    We love you New Zealand!

    The 2nd rate celebrity speaks. OMFG, can we get a real president some day? I’m tired of the guy who does infomercials.

  36. 36

    @Kay: I’ve always thought that about marriage equality too. I look at people like Pence and think what’s it to you?

  37. 37
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: You know, that’s true, and thank you for pointing it out. People can learn to do better. :)

  38. 38
  39. 39
    MattF says:

    This article is in the ‘intrepid NYT reporter goes somewheres in Pennsylvania and talks to right-wingers in diner’ genre. That said, it emphasizes (for once!) the plain-as-day racism of those diner people. What to do about it, I don’t have any idea.

  40. 40
    Kay says:

    And the weird “this is MY country”. The claim to title. I have never in my life seen a country treated like a used truck.

    What “yours”? You owned it? How so?

    That’s why they obsess on birth certificates, documents, papers please. Because they reduce everything to property. I’m as materialistic as the next person but at least I’m clear on what is my personal property and what is not, and I don’t reduce everything to who holds (real or imagined) title. It’s such a small and petty way to express “nationalism”. They can’t even do their fucked up ideology in an inspiring way.

  41. 41
    Wapiti says:

    @Kay: I was riding on the bus yesterday after dropping my car off for a service. The route went through a neighborhood that has a lot of immigrants. One of the people that embarked sat behind me, talking in Arabic or Somali on his cell phone.

    I smiled to myself because he occasionally dropped an “okay” into the otherwise “foreign” conversation. Assimilation happens, maybe one small word at a time.

  42. 42
    Aleta says:

    RentFreeHat @Popehat

    The NZ terrorist is a shitposter, and not everything in his manifesto is literally true, but that misses the point.

    The point is that shitposting — a poseur-nihilistic garbage culture of subnormal losers — is receptive to, supportive of, and safe harbor for terrorists.

    Rings true here too.

  43. 43
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Kay: It’s not just spanish. Years ago in the Baltimore area neighborhood we were living in, our closest friends were a German couple. Another neighbor once commented to me, in one of those “of course you’ll agree with me, amirite” conversations, “it really offends me when they speak German to their kids.”

    I was too boggled to comment. But there are really people who think this way, who think that everyone should only talk English in this country at home or outside, and who would of course be offended at the idea that they should talk anything but English in any other country.

  44. 44
    chopper says:

    i’m so devastated by what happened in christchurch. and i’m so fucking pissed that the president of the goddamned united states fucking inspired it. and i’m furious that he and his followers don’t give a shit about either.

  45. 45
    germy says:

    Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) opted for an odd word choice in his statement about the mosque massacre in New Zealand, saying “there are courts, dispute resolutions, and legislatures to resolve controversies – there is no place for cold blooded murders.

    It is unclear what controversy Gohmert is responding to that could have been settled in a courtroom, as the shooter seems to have been motivated by his white supremacy ideology and desire to quash immigration worldwide.

    TPM

  46. 46
    artem1s says:

    @Ian G.:

    Am I the only one who thought, when seeing Shitgibbon’s threat to use the military/police against his political opponents, “Nicolae Ceausescu thought the military was on his side too.”?

    nope. Ernst Rohm probably thought he had the military on his side too.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm

  47. 47
    joel hanes says:

    @Cowboy Diva:
    T.H. White … Wart

    God I love those books.
    Thanks for reminding me that elements of worth exist.

  48. 48
    Kay says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    “it really offends me when they speak German to their kids.”

    Lucky kids! My eldest son’s wife speaks several languages and I’m extremely jealous of her.

    If they ever have kids I hope she teaches them. My youngest is fairly good at languages (I think) and he’s learning spanish in high school. We got to a spanish market because I’m partial to their corn flour and he started a conversation with the older man behind the register, in spanish. The older man’s face just lit up. What a nice encounter! Why would I hate that?

  49. 49
    MattF says:

    @germy: ‘Massacre’ is such a loaded term. It’s really a disagreement that got out of hand.

  50. 50
    Brachiator says:

    @Kay:

    That’s why they obsess on birth certificates, documents, papers please. Because they reduce everything to property.

    This is not about property. It’s about identity, and the most primitive tribalism.

    And the Gileadites took the passages of Jordan before the Ephraimites: and it was so, that when those Ephraimites which were escaped said, Let me go over; that the men of Gilead said unto him, Art thou an Ephraimite? If he said, Nay;

    Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.

  51. 51
    jk says:

    Vote out Trump and his enablers next year.

    I take this sentence very seriously especially the words “his enablers”. Among Trump’s enablers are Michigan’s Fred Upton and Texas’ Will Hurd.

    Read this article in its entirety

    “Biden and Beto Boosted GOP Candidates in 2018. That’s Disqualifying”

    [A Democratic Party] county chairwoman posed an uncomfortable question. Mr. O’Rourke had not endorsed Ms. Jones. In fact, he had elevated her Republican opponent, Representative Will Hurd, with frequent praise and, most memorably, a live-streamed bipartisan road trip that helped jump-start their midterm campaigns. Would Mr. O’Rourke support the Democrat? He would not.

    Weeks later, Biden followed suit:

    Joseph R. Biden Jr. swept into Benton Harbor, Mich., three weeks before the November elections, in the midst of his quest to reclaim the Midwest for Democrats. He took the stage at Lake Michigan College as Representative Fred Upton, a long-serving Republican from the area, faced the toughest race of his career.

    But Mr. Biden was not there to denounce Mr. Upton. Instead, he was collecting $200,000 from the Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan to address a Republican-leaning audience, according to a speaking contract obtained by The New York Times and interviews with organizers … Mr. Biden stunned Democrats and elated Republicans by praising Mr. Upton while the lawmaker looked on from the audience.

    h/t http://nymag.com/intelligencer.....fying.html

    Joe Biden and Beto O’Rourke aren’t loyal Democrats, they’re scumbags who supported Trump enablers Fred Upton and Will Hurd respectively. Fuck Biden and Fuck Beto. If they can’t get behind every single fellow Democratic politician, no Democratic party voter should get behind either of these assholes.

  52. 52
    joel hanes says:

    @Kay:

    they met the higher standard.

    Similar observation about gender attitudes, consent, and treatment of LGBT persons.
    In some ways, we have come a longer way in a shorter time than I could ever have imagined.

    In other was, e.g. environmentalism, we seem to have failed to make much progress.

  53. 53
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Kay: Our school district is very anti-bully, and to me the proof of this standard’s success is that the kids my kid went to school with from elementary school on are still friendly to him when we run into them in the neighborhood.

    They all finished high school three years ago, there are no teachers watching and reporting on them but they are nice to the autistic kid who hardly recognizes they are in front of him because that’s how they were raised. By the school.

  54. 54
    trollhattan says:

    Another adult.

    Christchurch Mayor Lianne Dalziel has spoken of her “shock” at the attacks.

    She told a news conference: “The reason we’ve been targeted, and it was a deliberate decision to target our city, is that we are a safe city and a safe country.

    “There are no words to describe the revulsion that I feel for the propaganda that he wanted to bring to us – and I will not give voice to that propaganda. His was the voice of hate, and the only way communities can respond to the voice of hate is to come together.”

  55. 55
    TS (the original) says:

    Australian politicians who treat immigrants and refugees in a similar fashion to donald trump & his administration need to think long and hard about who they are aiding and abetting with their RW bigotry. That this man was raised in a small city (being a cathedral city – which is no more than a medium sized town) in Australia – should (but probably will not) make them stop the rhetoric. The local news has all the locals saying “I cannot imagine that this person I knew did this” – well they obviously weren’t listening to him and knew him not at all. I grew up not so far from this town in the 1950s/60s and it was so like the “heartland of the USA” with all the hard working farmers and small business people. They lived under a “White Australia Policy” where immigrants were welcome as long as they came from countries with European ancestry. Our history is catching up with us.

    On earlier threads I read the conversation that Australia would not exist but for the English sending out their deplorables – a minor correction is that White Australia would not exist but for England wanting somewhere to send their prison population. The native Australian population was here for at least 40,000 years prior to the first English settlement.

    Now listening to the NZ PM. She can only be praised for how she has reacted and the steps taken after the massacre – something she would never have expected to be facing.

    “OUR GUN LAWS WILL CHANGE – NOW IS THE TIME FOR CHANGE’

  56. 56
    Kay says:

    @joel hanes:

    Agreed, and this might be my worry about my own kids, but I do think older people should make some effort to impart to younger people that all is not lost, that they’ll get their turn to make this better. They don’t have all the baggage of lost battles that we have- I don’t want to put all that on them. They get to believe, just like we got to believe. They are allowed to be naive.

    My 16 year old is really interested in the 2020 election. Partly that’s growing up in our house, but he can lobby me against Klobuchar or get all excited about Yang and I shouldn’t tamp that down with my (learned and justified cynicism). This is new to him. He’s hopeful. I don’t want him to constantly hear “oh, this was all so much better before you came along” :)

  57. 57
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    You see it with those videos of white people yelling at other people who speak spanish. To me, it’s so easy. Okay- they are NOT talking to you

    That’s peak Whiteness, Kay.

  58. 58
    AliceBlue says:

    @Kay: I’ll bet most of these people don’t realize that we had a president for whom English was a second language–Martin Van Buren. He grew up speaking Dutch and he and his family spoke Dutch in the White House residence. He was also the first president to be born an American citizen.

  59. 59
  60. 60
    jl says:

    @AliceBlue: I did not know that. Thanks for info.
    Places in the country where not unusual to hear Amish families speaking their old German dialects among each other.

  61. 61
    zhena gogolia says:

    @germy:

    Just came here to post that.

    I don’t see how we can let this go on until 2021.

  62. 62
    zhena gogolia says:

    @germy:

    very fine people

  63. 63
    germy says:

    @jk:

    Ex-Hillary Aide @jess_mc Calls Out 'Double-Standard' of Beto Launch: Imagine a Woman Saying 'I Was Born to Do This' https://t.co/grW1UEpm04 pic.twitter.com/FZCB4Vb98k— Tommy MMXIXtopher (@tommyxtopher) March 14, 2019

  64. 64
    Brachiator says:

    @TS (the original):

    On earlier threads I read the conversation that Australia would not exist but for the English sending out their deplorables – a minor correction is that White Australia would not exist but for England wanting somewhere to send their prison population.

    The thing was, after the Revolution, the English could no longer send convicts to North America.

  65. 65
    TS (the original) says:

    @germy: NZ does not need trump’s assistance and the PM disagrees with trump’s view on white nationalism

  66. 66
    Kay says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    What really got our school getting serious was a kid with an involuntary movement issue getting his nose broken on the bus. It was fucking horrifying. All of a sudden all the “kids will be kids” people got real quiet and there was this kind of determination to end it. Set the goal at “zero” and know they won’t meet it, but SET it. Announce that there’s a higher standard and insist they’re capable of meeting it, and I was surprised at how well they did, surprised at how it started to be socially unacceptable within their weird, insular little culture. They bought in. As it turns out we could have set the higher standard 30 years ago and you wouldn’t hear those really heartbreaking stories from people who were bullied and NEVER forget it.

    They just needed a push. Needed someone to say “no, you WILL be kinder to each other in this one place”.

  67. 67
    trollhattan says:

    @germy:
    Yeah, how would such a tiny sliver of populace leverage their Strong Beliefs against such overwhelming opposition?

    Jacinda Ardern tells the news conference that the main suspect used five guns in the attack and that he did have a gun licence. She confirms that, in the wake of the massacre, “our gun laws will change” – adding that, following previous attempts to get the law changed, “now is the time”.

  68. 68
    jk says:

    @germy:

    It’s clearly a double standard and Beto is full of shit. His Republican pal Will Hurd has said he’d support Trump over Beto in a general election race.

  69. 69
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Kay: Multiple studies have shown that kids raised multilingually do better by almost every measure.

  70. 70
    TS (the original) says:

    @Brachiator: Of course, as we all learned in school history lessons, but my comment related to prior discussion that “Australia would not have existed but for the English deplorables”. not why the English sent their convicts to Australia.

  71. 71
    jk says:

    @germy:

    The umpteenth piece of evidence that Trump has shit for brains.

  72. 72
    gwangung says:

    @germy: It’s not a small problem TO THE 50+ PEOPLE WHO ARE DEAD, SHITGIBBON.

  73. 73
    TS (the original) says:

    @gwangung: And it’s not a small problem to the people and government of NZ. And the PM is going for the guns and no amount of NRA interference will stop that happening.

  74. 74
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    Lucky kids! My eldest son’s wife speaks several languages and I’m extremely jealous of her.

    What do you call a middle-class person that speaks only English?

    An American.

  75. 75
    tobie says:

    @jk: You posted the same thing yesterday, so I did a bit of sleuthing for you regarding coattails. From 2016 to 2018 the partisan breakdown in the Texas State House went from 55 D/95 R to 67 D/83 R. The partisan breakdown in the Texas caucus in the US House went from 11 D/25 R to 13 D/23 R. This amounts to a pickup of 12 seats in the state house and 2 seats in the US House. This is not too shabby for a midterm election where Democratic participation tends to be low. You can look up more stats on Balletopedia if you’re interested.

  76. 76
    jl says:

    Shapiro’s rules still allow us to discuss what social influences encourage people to go to the dark side and commit these crimes. So, that is good.
    Let’s talk about that. And we can talk about venial sins of omission and misdirection, as well as more serious ones of commission. That is good too.

  77. 77
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @artem1s: Um – no. He thought Hitler would allow him to take over the military, supplanting the Reichswehr with his SA. Instead der Fuehrer decapitated the SA & eventually absorbed its numbers into the Wehrmacht, whose members he compelled to swear an oath of personal loyalty to him.

  78. 78
    Doug R says:

    We have John Lewis.

  79. 79
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @Kay: Reminds me of a conversation on a bus in the UK (Wales). A white bloke had a problem with a woman in a Hijab speaking a foreign language to her daughter on the bus. The bigot stood up and said to her “you are in Britain speak English” a Welsh guy stood up and said “she is in fucking Wales, she is speaking fucking Welsh!”

  80. 80
    rikyrah says:

    @germy:

    HE IS HUMAN GARBAGE

  81. 81
    Ruckus says:

    @Kay:
    The grievance is built into the political platform. Someone has something that you do not. It doesn’t matter what it is, the entire concept of current day conservatism is to misdirect the participant so that they will want to have the politician fix the issue. Which of course the politician has no way to do or desire to even try. If you are worried about someone speaking Spanish, you aren’t worried about what the politician is stealing or allowing to be stolen from you. It’s classic misdirection/projection. The two things that conservative politicians do, projecting what they are doing and misdirecting the victims as to what that is. And it works on a lot of people. What @Mart: is talking about.

  82. 82
    Aleta says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Some of those same people travel outside the country and talk nothing but English.

    Among themselves in public: nonstop. To staff or businesspeople in the country they’re visiting: proceed in English right from the start, on the assumption the listener will adjust. The only adjustment those types will make: if not understood, shorten sentences and raise voice.

    It’s not about “when you’re in my country” and “if you want to be here, then speak English.” It’s because English language and US and British culture (ha) are supposed to be supreme in the world. Even in the 80s, conservatives were fighting hard against ‘multiculturalism’ in schools and colleges. ‘Classic Western civilization is being attacked!’

  83. 83

    Its fucking ironic and infuriating that the RWNJs among Brits and the countries inhabited by their descendants after committing genocide of the original inhabitants (Australia, NZ, United States) being butt hurt about immigrants, who are merely committing the crime of existing.

  84. 84
    Baud says:

    I always found it ironic that the people who are obsessed with protecting their heritage are the ones that are the best proof that their heritage is the worth protecting.

  85. 85
    Ruckus says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:
    Burdick and Lederer once wrote a book called the Ugly American. It’s even truer today than it was in 1958 when it was written.

  86. 86
    Baud says:

    @germy: It’s a double standard (or where Hillary is concerned, an infinite standard) but I can’t really hold that against Beto. Supporting a Republican on the other hand…

  87. 87

    My Muslim friend from Bangladesh feels like a target here, because she is Muslim, and in Bangladesh because she is a modern woman who does not cover her head. Truly for people like her and me, after this rise of bigotry in the United States no place feels like home, no place feels like it is fully accepting of your existence.

  88. 88
    jl says:

    off topic, but related issue. First, I hope Biden runs now that there is a good reason for it, which is to drive Trump nuts. I guess even with women (Warren, Harris, Klobuchar, etc.), people probably not white in Trump’s eyes (Sanders), and people of color, (Harris, Booker), and young ‘ens (Buttegeig and Beto), only an old white guy running scares Trump. They are the real people who count, in his mind, and in word and deed as well, sadly.

    Now we know why Trump’s favorite insult for Biden is ‘dummy’, he always signals the truth. Trump knows he is dumb and Biden is not. But that leads to Trump’s other problems.

    In Private, Aides Try To Quell Trump’s Biden Fears: Don’t Be ‘Overly Nervous’
    ” In private, President Trump is secretly obsessed with the prospect of former Vice President Joe Biden running for president in 2020 and aides are attempting to curb some of his concerns, Politico reported. ”
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/in-private-aides-try-quell-trumps-biden-fears-dont-be-overly-nervous

    Anyway, now i hope Biden runs. As Kamala Harris says: more the merrier, the Dems have a field of riches, why not flaunt it? (prob paraphrase).

  89. 89

    @Baud: That gave me a pause. I like Beto because he has spoken eloquently about the fake crisis that Tangerine has created at the southern border. But supporting an R for reelection, that’s a strike against Beto in my book.

  90. 90
    Ruckus says:

    @Brachiator:
    Sorry, it is about property. Stuff to have. Stuff to have that others don’t, can’t have. I’m better than you because……
    You are trying to make it more than it is. It isn’t that complex, they have been told for decades that they have something that others will never have and that something is good for them and therefore if they have it and others don’t, they are better. It’s the basis for bigotry. I have something you don’t. White skin. A home I own. A better job. A bank account. A whatever. It makes them superior in a comparison. Their life may be shit, but it’s better than others. One can be willing to live with less as long as someone else has even less. Live under a bridge with a fire in a barrel and a curtain rod, as long as the other has less.

  91. 91
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Don’t let yourself be distracted by all the bullshit attacks on the Democratic candidates. When we do, we fall right into the trap.

  92. 92
    zhena gogolia says:

    @jl:

    Haha, that may be the first story I’ve seen that makes me want Biden to run too.

    Really, we have an impressive panoply of decent people running this year (leaving out Sanders). It’s inspiring. But I’m afraid we don’t have that long.

  93. 93
    tokyokie says:

    @Baud:

    I always found it ironic that the people who are obsessed with protecting their heritage are the ones that are the best proof that their heritage is the worth protecting.

    When these yahoos talk about celebrating “white culture,” I somehow doubt they’re getting together to discuss John Donne sonnets or perform excerpts from Molière.

  94. 94
    jl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Beto has said he likes to riff and improvise during his speeches. So, not sure why that would give you pause.

    I save my concerns for various staffers of it seems every candidate past and present settling grievances every chance they get. And the institutionally racist, sexist and bigoted corporate press mentality that breathes life into various double standards every chance they get. The problem here isn’t Beto, and the staffer venting is only a small secondary problem and more firing at the wrong target than anything else (if the target was Beto). It’s the crap our media pushes every day and night.

  95. 95
    VOR says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Similar story made the rounds a while ago about two women in a grocery line in the US Southwest. They were having a conversation and a redneck told them to speak English because this is America. The women were speaking Navajo.

  96. 96
    Brachiator says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    Um – no. He thought Hitler would allow him to take over the military, supplanting the Reichswehr with his SA. Instead der Fuehrer decapitated the SA & eventually absorbed its numbers into the Wehrmacht, whose members he compelled to swear an oath of personal loyalty to him.

    I think that Trump comes close to demanding an oath of personal loyalty.

  97. 97
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    She’s 29, he’s 28 and both are full of hate… I don’t think either of them are doing a lot of deep thinking. I doubt he’s bright enough to figure out how Owens would react. YMMV.

  98. 98
    FelonyGovt says:

    @Kay: I have a Spanish surname due to my Cuban husband (I’m old, I took his name when we got married) The other day I made the mistake of making an innocent, supportive comment on Kamala Harris’s Facebook page. Some loser immediately responded to me with vile language including telling me to “go back to Mexico”. I was frankly shocked at the vitriol (although I shouldn’t have been).

  99. 99
    jl says:

    Trump is several messes swept into one great big dumpster and set on fire. Along with the malice and bigotry, is deep stupidity, short-sightedness, and hyper transactional mentality of the dimwit two-bit swindler.

    @joshtpm
    As always, Trump doesn’t know there’s a difference between American Jews and the Israeli government.

    @realDonaldTrump
    ” The ‘Jexodus’ movement encourages Jewish people to leave the Democrat Party. Total disrespect! Republicans are waiting with open arms. Remember Jerusalem (U.S. Embassy) and the horrible Iran Nuclear Deal! @OANN @foxandfriends ”
    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1106542194037542912

    Repeated Trump expressions of anti-Semitism are buried inside his idiot and futile schemes for a bogus short-run political win, or point for a Fox News talky show. He may even broadcast fuel for hate crimes, and in his dim bigot mind he thinks it is just him being the fairest person in the world, and if he can cynically use it to make a cheap point that will win the next few minutes, it is very unfair to hold him to account.

    Impossible to figure where his malice, confusion, stupidity, and short-sided deal making start and finish. But, been long past the point where figuring it out makes any difference. He is deeply unfit for office.

    Link to Marshall’s tweet, not Trump’s.

  100. 100
    Miss Bianca says:

    @rikyrah: Does anyone but me find the tone of what he says about Owens to be sneering and “ironic”? Not to excuse her, she deserves whatever shit gets flung at her, but seems to me what this guy is doing is *trying* to get shit flung at her.

    I don’t know, I’m not thinking very clearly this week.

  101. 101
    raven says:

    @FelonyGovt: I have a RWNJ buddy who is Hawaiian and has been taken for a Mexican quite a bit. I just look at him and shake my fucking head.

  102. 102
    jl says:

    @Brachiator: I saw where Trump’s appeal to force prompted a head of one of the armed forces to tweet out a reminder that the members of the armed forces serve the Constitution, not any individual or office holder.

  103. 103
    lamh36 says:

    Hmmm…maybe THIS is why Beto made the choice to jump into the 2020 POTUS race?

    @mcpli
    Follow Follow @mcpli
    More
    Reports that Joaquin Castro will soon enter the 2020 #txsen race against John Cornyn. #txlege

  104. 104
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    Sorry, it is about property. Stuff to have. Stuff to have that others don’t, can’t have. I’m better than you because……
    You are trying to make it more than it is. It isn’t that complex

    You’re right. It’s not that complex. It’s about identity. Always has been in America. Nobody knows what you have when they come up to you on the street. Nobody knows if you have a house or how big it is.

    Hell, nobody knows if a Spanish speaker is rich or poor, even a citizen or undocumented. But a bigot stewing in the juices of his or her racism knows that he or she is white and American, and anybody else is suspect.

    This is fucking America. Where blacks had to show papers that proved that they were free or traveling with their master’s permission. Discussion about this popped up recently in the Washington Post and elsewhere.

    Prof. Edward Baptist, history, and Prof. Vanessa Holden, history, the University of Kentucky, recently wrote an op-ed for the Washington Post detailing the historical roots of how Americans, often white, “[take] it upon themselves” to call the police on Black people….

    “For virtually the first time, white Americans have faced social disapproval for being caught on camera in the act of treating utterly normal behavior by black people as criminals,” Baptist and Holden wrote in the editorial. “But people like ‘BBQ Becky’ are not new. They continue a long tradition that began in slavery.”

    Some of the people most insistent on who is the right kind of American often don’t even have a pot to piss in. The only property they possess is their arrogance and racism. And this ain’t worth squat without the protection and cover of the larger society.

  105. 105
    WaterGirl says:

    I remember Barack Obama saying something in 2007 about being in a meeting with Iowa farmers – something about looking out in the audience and farmers chewing on a piece of hay or something. I don’t recall all the details, but it was something like that. There was a lot of “oh my god, he said something wrong, he doesn’t have enough experience, this is going to destroy the campaign”.

    Having been there for that gives me some perspective.

  106. 106
    Ruckus says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    Difficult to think clearly when discussing RWNJs because they have no connection to logical thought. They are total reactionaries to things they have been told to react to, and react with anger. They are marginalized because they agree to be marginalized. For basically nothing in return other than feeling in the least bit possible, superior.

  107. 107
    trollhattan says:

    Weirder and weirder

    Turkey has launched an investigation after it emerged that the suspect made several visits to the country, officials say.

    Without giving dates, the anonymous official says the man charged with murder “visited Turkey several times and stayed for a long period in the country”.

    “We think that the suspect could have [then] been to other countries in Europe, Asia and Africa,” they add. “We are investigating the suspect’s movements and contacts in the countries.”

    Authorities in Sofia have also opened an inquiry after learning that the suspect may have visited Bulgaria in November 2018.

    Let’s line up his and Steve Bannon’s travel calendars and see what happens.

  108. 108
    eemom says:

    re Beto: there were a shitton of articles by various so called liberals yesterday on why he is SO not the real deal. Not sure what to make of that.

    I personally don’t know anything about him except that he almost beat Cruz. Wish he HAD fucking beat Cruz, so he wouldn’t be an issue. Don’t think anything good is gonna come of having this many contenders at this point.

    Also, as I’ve said before, even though my absolute priority is beating trump, it annoys me that the two straight white boys, B&B, have such instant power to suck all the oxygen out of the room and obliterate all coverage of the non-straight-white-boy candidates.

  109. 109
    zhena gogolia says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I started to write something here about an article I read about O’Rourke’s wife’s family, and then I thought, “No, don’t pass it on, it’s probably rodent copulation.” I’m going to try to only pass on stories about policy.

  110. 110
    WaterGirl says:

    OT question for anyone here who watches Empire. I am a lot of episodes behind on Empire and normally I would play catch-up when I get time, but I am finding the whole Jussie Smollett incident has sort of spoiled the show for me. I am curious about whether anyone else is feeling the same way.

  111. 111
    zhena gogolia says:

    @eemom:

    People are desperate to have a white male to vote for. I can’t tell you how many people have said, “I really like this Beto O’Rourke!”

  112. 112
    Skepticat says:

    @Mart: .

    .. but has any journalist read Omar’s “bad statements”? They all pile on her for saying something bad, but never play or elaborate on her extended comments.

    I strongly agree with all but your use of “journalists.” There’s precious journalism being committed these days. Would that this example were surprising or that it were only this instance. The talking heads manage to make their perception our reality, and their perception is sadly warped.

  113. 113
    zhena gogolia says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I’ve never watched it. I guess I’d say, watch it for Taraji and Terrence!

  114. 114
    WaterGirl says:

    @eemom: You could google “Beto o’rourke twitter” and watch his short announcement speech, which would give you a feel for who he is.

  115. 115
    FelonyGovt says:

    @WaterGirl: I stopped watching after the amnesia plot point. It got a little too soapy for me.

  116. 116

    I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump — I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point and then it would be very bad, very bad.

    I expect him to go full-on Brownshirt over the course of the next twenty months. We should be preparing for this.

  117. 117
    WaterGirl says:

    @zhena gogolia: Or maybe there’s a lot to like about Beto as a candidate, regardless of gender.

    It makes no sense to me that people are hating on Beto or Pete B because they are male. They are both like a breath of fresh air to me. I dare anyone to watch Pete’s CNN town hall and tell me he’s a waste of candidate space or that he shouldn’t be running because he’s a white male.

    I swear Dems are their own worst enemy.

  118. 118
    jl says:

    I guess to be expected, but still shocking, even after all this time and so much toxic BS from this guy. I suppose Trump would respond that he is the fairest person in the world, some of his best friends are Jews who he lets handle his money, and some of his best anti-Islamic hate mongering bigot friends are from the Middle East. We are unfair to him and he is a victim.

    The Charlottesville Shuffle
    Josh Marshall, TPM
    ” We should note we’re back to the standard Trump dance in which he needs to be dragged kicking and screaming to call what happened in New Zealand “terrorism” as opposed to just some senseless, unfortunate thing. ”
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-charlottesville-shuffle

    Edit: Marshall amplifies

    After all, while dismissing him as clownish personally, the New Zealand mass shooter praised Trump as “a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose.” This is no accident.

    Trump’s former advisor Whalid Phares made the point clearly enough…. You can disagree with the methods but appreciate the legitimacy of the terrorists’ goals. That is to say, you can if you harbor racist, eliminationist political beliefs and values.

  119. 119
    eemom says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    People are desperate to have a white male to vote for.

    Exactly. It’s depressing as shit.

  120. 120
    zhena gogolia says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I realize I let myself in for being misunderstood. I don’t hate O’Rourke at all! I’m trying to be open to everyone, except Bernie. But I do notice that people (non-political-junkies) are leaping on O’Rourke with gay abandon, and all I can think is they just can’t bring themselves to consider a woman.

  121. 121
    eemom says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I respect your opinion, but I gotta say the criticisms I read yesterday did sound reasonable.

    That said, I will study the matter — or rather the man — further, and draw my own conclusions.

  122. 122
    Brickley Paiste says:

    Amend Candace Owens: I am starting to think the slogan “Listen to the black women” might need some refinement.

  123. 123
    eemom says:

    Anyway, I DO really like Buttigieg. (And not just cuz Cole does!)

  124. 124
    Ksmiami says:

    @rikyrah: I think we need to put the fear in them.

  125. 125
    Baud says:

    Apparently, a shower door isn’t considered the same type of omen as a stray bird because Bernie is staying in the race.

  126. 126
    tobie says:

    @zhena gogolia: Is it really that simple? I’ve been feeling pretty lukewarm about this election–there are some candidates I like a lot, some that I’m okay with, but no one has really swept me off my feet. Beto’s announcement video did excite me for its promise of fundamental change, on the one hand, and the appeal to national ideals, on the other. I also appreciated the absence of grievance in his message. I know that I’ll be knocking on doors for the general election in 2020 and I’d like to do so with a feeling of hope and not just anger or dread.

  127. 127
    zhena gogolia says:

    @WaterGirl: @eemom:

    I really, really liked the way O’Rourke’s wife looked in the video, so I googled her to learn more about her. I got an article in Elle magazine — I expected it to just give the basic facts about her. She’s an educator, went to Williams, then spent time in Guatemala teaching kindergarten, all good. But then it had this long thing about how her father is a mega-rich real-estate developer and I’m not going to retail any more of the details. If the story is valid I’m sure we’ll hear all about it. But I took a moment and thought, “Why is there all this potentially negative detail, in Elle magazine, no less?” I just worry that any Dem candidate is going to have people bending over backwards to find negative stuff — we have to remember THERE’S A NAZI IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

  128. 128
    Ruckus says:

    @Brachiator:
    I was hoping you’d see that in the way intended. We like to make things complex. Most people aren’t all that complex. Sleep, eat, shit, eat, shit, sleep. That’s the sum of a lot of people, it doesn’t get more complex, they aren’t capable of complex. It helps to work with the public at large for a while and see people in an atmosphere where they think they have bought your time.
    And it’s not to say that there aren’t complex people, there are for sure. We all know of some, we probably have met a few. At one time in my life I knew a man, the son of someone I also knew professionally who was smart and very accomplished, and it was said about his son, “Every day is a new day.” It wasn’t actually a complement. And yet this son was very talented, not quite as talented as his dad, but very respectfully so. Dad was complex, son was not at all. Complex and talented are not the same thing.

  129. 129
    zhena gogolia says:

    @tobie:

    I don’t get a sense of grievance from Harris.

  130. 130
    jl says:

    So, in last few minutes, Trump opens door to doubt as to who the shooter really is and what he represents (false flag possibility, check), wonders if he really had anything to do with white nationalism (we can never really know, can we, check), and goes on a tirade of incitement against fictional wave of violent immigrant invasion along US southern border (what’s really important, check).

    Send this guy a robe and hood, next time we wants to wear white, I guess. Springtime is nearly here.

  131. 131
    Miss Bianca says:

    @zhena gogolia: Whereas, I have no idea how I got on a Beto fund-raising mailing list, but God help me, I unsubscribed myself after the 3rd email in 24 hours. I personally don’t care how many people decide to enter on the Democratic side at this point in the race – on the one hand, I don’t know that I’m quite in “the more the merrier” mode, but on the other, I’m not inclined to see doom and gloom in the prospect of a ton of initial contenders – but I’m not burning with a hard gem-like flame to contribute to any of ’em yet.

  132. 132
    WaterGirl says:

    @eemom: While it is true that if you are desperate to hav a white male to vote for then you will most certainly favor a white male candidate.

    But surely we all too smart to believe the inverse is true – that liking a white male candidate means that you are desperate to have a white male to vote for.

    Geez. We are about 18 months before the election and people are accusing each other of things for which there is no evidence, even here on BJ. It’s downright depressing.

  133. 133
    jl says:

    @zhena gogolia: Harris says the more the merrier.

    If I understand it correctly, I think the Dem’s plans to hold multiple early debates with rotating panels of candidates is good. Sure better than the initial GOP idea last couple of cycles of getting them all up there at once, and asking for shows of hands, and see who can jump highest in praise of St Ronnie.

  134. 134
    Baud says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Warren send me the most emails. Harris and Gillibrand are more judicious. I haven’t signed up for anyone else yet.

  135. 135
    zhena gogolia says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I’m not accusing you of this. You are a political junkie. I’m talking about people who barely pay attention, but as soon as the young white guy announces they get all excited. I find that a little suspicious, that’s all.

    I’m leaning toward Harris but I don’t have time to research all these people — I’m waiting for debates or more info in general. I like them all in various ways, except Bernie and Tulsi.

  136. 136
    WaterGirl says:

    @Miss Bianca: I was annoyed by the level of Beto emails yesterday, also, and then I saw the link at the bottom that allows you to say you want fewer emails. That helped a lot – I think I maybe got one today.

  137. 137
  138. 138
    Baud says:

    @jl: You mean we won’t have a dick measuring contest in our debate?

  139. 139
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @zhena gogolia:
    Harris has been doing a fantastic job … I can’t think of any serious missteps she’s made in the past few months. I don’t think I can say that of any other 1st tier candidates. Maybe Booker

    Harris is demonstrating focus and discipline.

  140. 140
    zhena gogolia says:

    @rikyrah:

    Spot on.

    This is really, really disturbing and disgusting.

    Have to go out now — see you all later.

  141. 141
    jl says:

    @Baud: Baud 2020! needs to jump in and get some interesting Q’s on the agenda. IMHO.

  142. 142
    Miss Bianca says:

    @WaterGirl: OK, I still don’t want to get fund-raising emails, but I gotta say that I appreciate that that option’s in the fine print, even if it was apparently too fine for me to read it!

  143. 143
    JPL says:

    @jl: Okay that’s a good sell, but can he announce that he’d only run for one term.

  144. 144
    WaterGirl says:

    @zhena gogolia: I think both of the young white guys in the race are both pretty exciting, so I won’t even fault someone for being excited by either of them.

    Listen to Pete’s CNN town hall – he is sharp and smart and thoughtful – and he actually answers the questions he is asked, and he doesn’t circle back around to the 5 questions he wants to answer.

    The second most shocking thing about Pete’s town hall is that the media person who was running the town hall did a really good job, and he’s not someone I typically like at all.

    P.S. If you don’t have the time or patience to listen to the whole town hall – though for me it was a total treat to listen to – line an antidote to all the awful that we are living through – if you go to pete’s twitter feed, you can watch just one question and answer at a time.

  145. 145
    JPL says:

    @WaterGirl: yup.. I think most of us lean towards someone, but in the end will vote for the democratic candidate.

  146. 146
    jl says:

    @JPL: If it wouldn’t doom him with a sane Dem primary electorate, Biden should announce he’s running for president for life. Trump would go bonkers. Wouldn’t be able to think about anything else.

  147. 147
    Aleta says:

    None of the US-trademarked “too soon” or “don’t politicize tragedy” from the NZ Prime Min:

    Ardern said Saturday, “while the nation grapples with a form of grief and anger that we have not experienced before, we are seeking answers.”

    She vowed that “while work is being done as to the chain of events that led to both the holding of this gun license and the possession of these weapons, I can tell you one thing right now: Our gun laws will change.”

    “None of those apprehended had a criminal history either here or in Australia,” and none were on any watch lists, Ardern said.

  148. 148
    lamh36 says:

    @zhena gogolia: I agree.

    IMHO, Beto is giving certain group of folks the “Kennedy” fix they’ve always looked for (thos JFK/RFK feels). As someone said, “he even has the Kennedy hair”…

    For the young people, guess he’s the Bernie guy they want, just younger, or even the “white Obama” as some idiots actually called him…like…what

  149. 149
    Ruckus says:

    @WaterGirl:
    There is a bit of loser stench upon the democratic party at this point. We lost a major election to a useless piece of white trash racist scum by an extremely small percentage. We were set to make history, we were actually going to have 2 dems in a row, both good, a possible 16 yrs of progress. And that was stolen by a confluence of bullshit. We want our good dem woman to show the world that we aren’t all the Ugly American. But some are scarred that will once again cause us to get our asses handed to us. By a white trash racist scum. Who has proven every day how truly shitty he really is. They want us to run with a proven or at least a safe bet. I say swing for over the fence. A black woman president. Maybe with a side of white male VP, or better still another woman. The shitty white boys have had their turns. I’ve lived in this county for a third of it’s existence and we’ve had some shitty presidents in that time. The women should have at least a chance to show they are better.

  150. 150
    Mart says:

    @Rand Careaga: Now the asshole president has “Jexodus” being promoted on facsist Fox and Friends. Tweet from dear leader: “The ‘Jexodus’ movement encourages Jewish people to leave the Democrat Party. Total disrespect! Republicans are waiting with open arms. Remember Jerusalem (U.S. Embassy) and the horrible Iran Nuclear Deal! @OANN @foxandfriends”

  151. 151
    Bill Arnold says:

    @trollhattan:

    Weirder and weirder

    Yeah. I’m trying to be really cautious on this story; there’s so much weird[0] and it slams so many emotional levers. There’s so much going on. Has any serious news organization taken this up in a serious way? The bbc live feed is helpful (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-asia-47578860) but I don’t fully trust the BBC atm.
    [0] E.g. was the perp manipulated into it? I haven’t dug but people will. And various other theories are being spun up, some in good faith and some just pure deliberate disinformation to flood the space with theories. (Haven’t had time yet today to look hard.)

  152. 152
    lamh36 says:

    Uh…this seems kind cool actually…and oh…like something a teenage white boy WOULD do..

    But ok…go auwf I guess…

    Inside Beto O’Rourke’s secret membership in America’s oldest hacking group.

    Is the US ready for a presidential contender who, as a teenager, stole long-distance phone service, wrote a murder fantasy, and mused about a society without money? https://reut.rs/2Hy4Lym via @Reuters

  153. 153
    WaterGirl says:

    @Ruckus: This is my list:

    inspirational
    compelling message
    compelling messenger
    shares my values
    charismatic
    someone with vision
    good on their feet
    willing to upset the status quo
    strong coattails
    lots of energy
    wicked smart
    ability to raise tons of money
    relationship with the black community
    connects with young people
    connects with women
    ability to connect with independents, not just dems
    not an old white guy

    relationship with their spouse says a lot, too, but I’m not sure it belongs on this list
    someone who could beat trump, but that is unknowable

    I would love to have a woman if she is the best candidate that matches the traits that are important to me. All things being equal, I would love to have a female president. But it’s most important to me that we get the best person in that office, regardless of gender.

    YMMV

  154. 154
    TS (the original) says:

    @Aleta:

    Our gun laws will change

    And she doubled down on it when a reporter questioned her.

    The other interesting thing I’ve read – and I don’t have a link – sorry

    NZ prime minister Jacinda Ardern says Donald Trump called her and asked what the US could do. She says she replied: “Sympathy and love for all Muslim communities.”

    Ah – mentioned in the guardian

  155. 155
    KarenH says:

    @lamh36: Yes, he’s the “other” Castro twin, the Congressman. He’s grown a beard, presumably to make it easier to tell them apart. Julian Castro is still in the presidential race.

  156. 156
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    I was hoping you’d see that in the way intended. We like to make things complex. Most people aren’t all that complex. Sleep, eat, shit, eat, shit, sleep. That’s the sum of a lot of people, it doesn’t get more complex, they aren’t capable of complex.

    Isn’t it more about getting to the essentials of a situation, rather than viewing it as simple or complex?

  157. 157
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: What is auwf? I googled and got nothing.

    edit: Do you still watch Empire? I would love to get your take on the question I posed earlier.

  158. 158
    rikyrah says:

    Hope that he never sees the light of day ever again 😠😠😠

    https://twitter.com/justduns/status/1105716803337158657

  159. 159
    satby says:

    @WaterGirl: I think some of the excitement is because Beto and Mayor Pete are younger, not because they’re white guys.
    And let’s also note that Pete has normalized a gay person running for President; it’s barely mentioned other than as part of his biographical information. Just for that, yay him! Another barrier busted.

  160. 160
    rikyrah says:

    Uh huh
    Uh huh 😒

    Qasim Rashid, Esq. (@MuslimIQ) Tweeted:
    Every single American murdered by extremists in 2018 was murdered by a white supremacist or far right extremist.

    Every Single One. 100%

    It isn’t too soon to talk about the toxic role of white supremacy in the New Zealand mosque attack.

    It’s too late.😓
    https://t.co/vomJbaO43e https://twitter.com/MuslimIQ/status/1106568512292749312?s=17

  161. 161
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: That helps explain a cryptic comment I read somewhere earlier this week, about the 2 Castro brothers and Beto always in a dance together. The wording is no doubt not exactly right, but it was something like that. Surely they are talking to one another if they feel they are in the same lane?

  162. 162
    Aleta says:

    About NZ gun laws. This is wiki so it may not have perfect accuracy:

    Under New Zealand law, some lawful, proper, and sufficient purpose is needed to use, discharge or carry any firearm, airgun, or similar weapon. The person carrying, using, or discharging the weapon is obliged to prove the purpose was lawful, proper, and sufficient. This requirement applies even if the person can legally possess the weapon.

    Exactly what constitutes a lawful, proper, and sufficient purpose is not defined in legislation and must be proven on a case by case basis. Hunting game, pest control and agricultural uses, sports, collection, and theatrics are all normally acceptable purposes but personal protection and self-defence are not.

    It is established law and public policy that allowing privately owned guns to be carried by people who provide personal protection to VIPs, whether foreign or domestic, is not appropriate. … The New Zealand Police has a Diplomatic Protection Service(DPS) that trains and provides protection officers to protect VIPs.

    In the Arms Code, Police advise that self-defence is not a valid reason to possess a firearm.(no citation provided). … While the Crimes Act allows a person to use reasonable force to defend oneself or another person against assault or entry into a dwelling, that force needs to be proportionate to any force being used to effect the assault or entry and not excessive. Preemptive action in anticipation of a threat or retribution after the threat has passed are both considered excessive force by the Courts. Even Police actions when confronting armed offenders that results in death or injury of anyone are thoroughly investigated.

  163. 163
    WaterGirl says:

    @zhena gogolia: I think we talked yesterday about both of us having a good feeling about her. I think it’s pretty common to come away with the same values as your parents – or the opposite values, in reaction to theirs.

    So I’m not gonna give her bad marks for her dad, even if he turns out to be a rich, real estate crook. Unless she’s been part of it, like the trump kids. (Not saying you are giving her bad marks.)

    I am in total agreement with you that everyone is looking to tear down the Dem candidates. We have to be smarter. Eyes on the prize. No one is perfect, but a lot of our candidates are really damn good this time around.

  164. 164
    trollhattan says:

    @lamh36:
    Well, Ted’s (pronounced Tay-ud”) Big Weapon was that pic of Beto with his band, sporting a jumper so no, I don’t find teen hacking to imply anything more than he probably understands tech, internet and web better than most candidates.

    I don’t feel the need to reject or endorse at this point. Cripes, we’re gonna have half a dozen more in a month at this rate.

    Marshawn Lynch 2020! “All about that action, boss.”

  165. 165
    rk says:

    @TS (the original):

    NZ prime minister Jacinda Ardern says Donald Trump called her and asked what the US could do. She says she replied: “Sympathy and love for all Muslim communities.”

    She might as well have asked him to do the tango. He’s not capable.

  166. 166
    WaterGirl says:

    @satby: Yes to everything you wrote. Plus, both Pete and Beto elevate the conversation. They are both smart and thoughtful and really want to make this a different world. Neither one is interested in the same old same old reasons why we can’t do anything differently.

    I would love to see both of them on the same debate stage, but I bet they split them up between the two nights. But if they both make the first cut, maybe I’ll get my wish. I did not expect to like Pete this much.

  167. 167
    trollhattan says:

    @rk:
    She absolutely does not want the world’s attention and is doing a great job regardless. I’m glad NZers have her.

  168. 168
    WhatsMyNym says:

    @Miss Bianca: I had a text from a Beto supporter. I have no idea how they got my cellphone number, I do not give it out to campaigns or when donating. I replied with “stop” and they did.

  169. 169
    WaterGirl says:

    @rikyrah:

    It isn’t too soon to talk about the toxic role of white supremacy in the New Zealand mosque attack.

    It’s too late.

    That’s it in a nutshell.

  170. 170
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    They want us to run with a proven or at least a safe bet.

    “They” who? And why should be care?

    I say swing for over the fence.

    Yep. Makes sense to me.

  171. 171
    WaterGirl says:

    @WhatsMyNym: I got a text also yesterday. I texted back to say I didn’t want to receive fundraising texts – that I donate what i can, when i can – but that other texts were okay. immediate text back saying that they weren’t able to separate it out like that, did i want to be take off texts completely.

    I was pleased by that and the “don’t send me so many emails” option at the bottom of their emails.

    I see where they are coming from, though, and Barack did it in 2007/2008. One of the measures of a “serious” candidate is how much/how fast they can raise money, so unfortunately that affects everything.

  172. 172
    WaterGirl says:

    @rikyrah: Heartbreaking to see all the scratches – but only because it’s obvious that she fought so hard. Sickening.

  173. 173
    lamh36 says:

    @WaterGirl: auwf (go off…or go crazy).

    I haven’t watched Empire in years

  174. 174
    cynthia ackerman says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Then the sycophants/harpies like Kellyanne (on Chris Cuomo) deflect further, by saying it’s all out of context, or why can’t you ask me about something positive, Dems are the real villains.

    This is one way right wing violence is normalized.

  175. 175
    eemom says:

    @WaterGirl: @zhena gogolia:

    I likewise was not referring to you, or anyone else here, in agreeing that “people are desperate for a white male to vote for”……rather, to the incurious, unenlightened, NYT reading millions whose votes we will need in order to win.

  176. 176
    Miss Bianca says:

    @satby: Right on top of Jared Polis winning the governorship of CO handily. What was interesting and heartening to me was that even tho’ his opponent, Walker Stapleton, was a typical RWNJ, he never tried to make any kind of culture-war issue out of Jared’s sexuality – at least, not in public. That is some small measure of social progress there!

  177. 177
    Jeffro says:

    @Rand Careaga: I think he’s already there… he has pulled on supporters to beat up protesters at his rallies, he flat out ignored the pipe bomber with the eight dozen trumpov stickers on his van, he said the RWNJ Coast Guard guy was “very sad”, and of course, torch-bearing Nazis are ‘very fine people’

    He will call for violence against his enemies. And you’re right, we should be doing something about it now…like getting the media to get the GOP on the record about it.

  178. 178
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Wapiti:
    People say “okay” in non-English converstion all over the planet these days.

  179. 179
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @trollhattan:

    “advanced stress mitigation tactics, extreme time-saving workouts, DIY cold tubs, hormesis, one-meal-a-day and more.”

    “Hormesis” is one of those codewords for “homeopathy” preferred by educated halfwits who do not want to admit that they are halfwits.

  180. 180
    Ruckus says:

    @WaterGirl:
    If we didn’t have 3 or 4 women who meet your needs I’d agree with you about any competent person. But we do. I’d say that pretty much any of the actual dems running would be better than shit for brains is now. As I’ve said here before, I’d be far better than shit for brains, and I don’t think anyone would want me for president. 1st, old white fart. 2nd, my health is not the greatest, although I’ve seen far worse at younger than I am. 3rd, I don’t want the job. I thought about running for senator and being in politics a few years ago but it just isn’t me. That says more about me than the job.
    But we do have several good women running for president, my favorite now is Stacy Abrams. I like her personality and how she carries herself. Kamala Harris is second on my list, she’s good and doesn’t rattle easily at all. Warren is OK, smart but I’m thinking past the age limit and her latest policy announcement, break up the tech firms, just doesn’t strike me as a positive concept, especially to start off. It would maybe be 20th or 50th on my list. But she’s far, far, far, far better than the shitgibbon. But then a shit flinging monkey would be at the least, better. And then we have Beto and Pete. Both of whom sound pretty good.

  181. 181
    Ruckus says:

    @Brachiator:
    It’s not situational for the most part but it can be if you happen to be discussing something someone is highly trained in and passionate about. That doesn’t necessarily make them more complex on a daily basis, it’s how one works. I’m not that complex on a daily basis. I used to be. Age has a price.

  182. 182
    J R in WV says:

    @Wapiti:

    10 or 15 years ago wife and I were on a driving vacation in spring, mostly in Navajo Nation in NM and AZ. One thing we did was listen to Navajo Nation Radio, which is mostly in Navajo, but for cases where the concept doesn’t exist in that language.

    During the trip a famous Medal of Honor Navajo Code Talker of WW II fame died. Now, the Navajo culture doesn’t share our funerary customs — they do not speak of the dead, do not have funerals, do not even have words for those customs.

    But this late hero was different, as a famed war veteran, the Governor and Senators insisted on coming to “pay their respects” to the fallen hero — regardless of the fact the the Navajo Nation doesn’t believe in any of that stuff.

    So the Navajo Nation Radio broadcasters were speaking about 70% English in the news about the famous Code Talker Hero’s death, which was an unmentionable thing, no words for the event in his native language. Very different to listen to. Same for car dealer ads, no words in Navajo, so the ads are a big part in English, especially the price teases.

    I also had many Indian (south Asian) software guys working for us, and often two or three of them would be around a computer hotly discussing how to make it do what they needed it to do in Hindi (or whatever language they shared!) and did we English speakers care about that? Hell no, anything that allowed them to move forward faster was a good thing!!

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