Bucket o’ Wings (Open Thread)

Perry Bacon over at FiveThirtyEight identified the “six wings of the Democratic Party” — here’s an excerpt of each category with examples; more commentary about the categories at the link:

The Super Progressives
Very liberal on economic and identity/cultural issues, anti-establishment. (Anti-establishment is a very fuzzy term, but in this piece, what I’m referring to is people who see part of their role as not just attacking Republicans, but also highlighting what they see as shortcomings of the Democratic Party itself.)

Prominent examples: Ocasio-Cortez , Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Rep. Mark Pocan of Wisconsin, Rep. Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan

The Very Progressives
Very liberal on economic issues, fairly liberal on identity issues, skeptical of the Democratic establishment.

Prominent examples: Bill de Blasio, Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren.

The Progressive New Guard
Liberal on both economic and identity issues but also somewhat concerned about the “electability” of candidates and the appeal of ideas to the political center; generally rose to prominence after Barack Obama was elected president.

Prominent examples: Stacey Abrams, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Julian Castro, Kamala Harris, Jay Inslee, Beto O’Rourke.

The Progressive Old Guard
Solidly center-left on both economic and identity issues, but very concerned about the “electability” of candidates and the appeal of ideas to the political center; generally rose to prominence before Obama was elected president.

Prominent examples: Joe Biden, Cuomo, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer.

The Moderates
More conservative and business-friendly than other Democrats on economic policies; somewhat liberal on cultural issues; anti-establishment.

Prominent examples: Rep. Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey, Rep. Conor Lamb of Pennsylvania, Rep. Abigail Spanberger of Virginia.

Conservative Democrats
Skeptical of liberal views on both economic and cultural issues, often supportive of abortion limits, generally from conservative-leaning areas.

Prominent examples: Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin.

Huh. Not sure how much water that classification system holds. For example, Spanberger and Lamb are obviously “very concerned about the ‘electability’ of candidates and the appeal of ideas to the political center.” (I think Bacon realized that too, which is why he inserted “generally rose to prominence before Obama was elected president” to distinguish one class from another.)

Anyhoo, maybe it’s interesting in a Buzzfeedy “Tell us which Buffalo Wild Wings signature sauce you prefer, and we’ll reveal which member of Maroon 5 is your soulmate!” kinda way.

Open thread!






144 replies
  1. 1

    Just as long as all wings of the Democratic Party understand they need to unite when it matters (NOVEMBER 2020!) to kick the goddamn Republican crooks out of office.

  2. 2
    satby says:

    When did Sanders join the Democratic Party?

  3. 3

    @satby:

    He’s signed paperwork but I don’t even think he’s gotten the fees paid.

    And he’s planning on running as an Independent for his Senate seat in 2022 (or 24?)

  4. 4
    White & Gold Purgatorian says:

    With all these wings, sure hope Dems can manage to fly in formation for a few election cycles. It’s going to take awhile to get the country back on track.

  5. 5
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @satby: is there a Grifter Wing?

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    And then there’s Baud!

  7. 7
    Seanly says:

    Give me anyone under 60 and in the first 3 categories as our Democratic Party Presidential candidate and I would be a very happy man.

    But yes, I am reminded of a test we did in my Freshman pysch seminar. The professor knew our birthdays and handed out Zodiac profiles for each of us. We had a discussion of how well each fit – most folks said it fit pretty well. Then he said that he’d given us one for the person next to us.

    Basically, what Poster #1 sez.

  8. 8
    The Dangerman says:

    So, I’m a Guard (New or Old is open for debate).

    Where’s my coffee (read: fuck these time changes)?

  9. 9
    Juju says:

    Is Marion 5 the group with that guy who has the tattoos on his torso that make him look like a human ouji board?

  10. 10
    Baud says:

    BTW, anyone who doesn’t care at all about electability is a detriment to our success.

    That’s more a critique of the descriptions than the people who are classified under them.

  11. 11
  12. 12
    debbie says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    That right there is disqualification.

  13. 13
    Seanly says:

    To clarify, I would vote for the Democratic Party candidate even if older than 60. Just that I think we need to move on from the god damn Boomers (and older). They’ve had their time, fucked the pooch (aka destroyed the planet), and time for loser Gen X to take the reins.
    Not that anyone gives a crap about my clarification…

  14. 14
    MattF says:

    I guess it’s interesting. But i’m concerned about the ‘Democrats In Disarray’ meme that the RW media are deeply invested in spreading. Just for that reason, one should be careful about hair-splitting and making lists of issues to divide Dem groups.

  15. 15
    Juju says:

    @eclare: thanks and his torso is a bit scary. Also Sanders and Biden are too old.

  16. 16

    This classification scheme is splitting hairs. And is of no use whatsoever.

  17. 17
    Al Z. says:

    Very appropriate since Monday is Wing Nite at Shifty’s.

  18. 18
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Trump’s budget is horrific.
    https://twitter.com/RedTRaccoon/status/1105128952618717184
    Where are the Republican deficit hawks?

  19. 19
    trollhattan says:

    @satby:
    IIUC Wilmer wants party to join him. Otherwise he’ll yell at them. Come to think of it, he’ll yell at them anyway.

    “Unfai-uh!!!”

  20. 20
    debbie says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    It would be very difficult to categorize the Rethuglicans, other than to put them all under the label of “Lunatic Fringe.”

  21. 21
    trollhattan says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    “Who?” They are deficit owls now. “Hoooo.”

  22. 22
    Betty Cracker says:

    I don’t despise Bernie nearly as much as some of y’all do, but if he refuses to release his tax returns by April 15, he needs to get the fuck out of the primary. If Democrats are going to hold Trump’s crooked, corrupt ass to the fire over his tax returns, we can’t have a Democratic Party primary candidate who refuses to release his own. THAT’S disqualifying, IMO.

  23. 23
    Brachiator says:

    @trollhattan:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    “Who?” They are deficit owls now. “Hoooo.”

    Good one. The Republicans have thrown out any pretense of knowing anything about or caring about the economy or finance. They simply do what Trump wants.

    Funny, it seems only yesterday when some conservative pundits were wondering whether Trump was really a moderate in sheep’s clothing who would betray the mighty Republican Party. Today, the GOP are sheep in thrall to their Orange Shepherd.

  24. 24
    Al Z. says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeah I was expecting a bit more of a data driven analysis from FiveThirtyEight. Maybe using a multivariate analysis like cluster analysis that would identify actually end member points along a policy matrix. This is just an opinion piece.

  25. 25
    PJ says:

    This is no different from saying: here are some prominent Democratic politicians arranged from left to right.

    A more interesting breakdown would be to examine where politicians stand on major problems that are facing us now (in no particular order): income inequality, tax policy, healthcare, voting rights, civil rights, labor rights, police brutality, media (including internet) consolidation and manipulation, climate change, natural resources policy, immigration, military spending and readiness, foreign trade, and, not least, foreign policy, which will have to be reconstructed after Trump and about which I have not heard anything from any Presidential candidate.

  26. 26
    JGabriel says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Where are the Republican deficit hawks?

    They hibernate during Republican presidential administrations.

  27. 27
    Barbara says:

    @Betty Cracker: Agreed. The fact that he is so coy about his taxes is ridiculous. Every nominee releases their returns and he has had more than three years to figure out how to deal with this. I will say, I would not really want to release my taxes for the wider world to see, but then, I am not running for anything. I continue to believe that his concerns relate more to the political liability of using dodgy deductions than tax violations or evidence of other criminal activity (like showing lower valuations for tax purposes than you show for insurance purposes), but he needs to get over it. If he thinks that people will view him less favorably because of his tax returns, well, you know, that’s WHY they should be released.

  28. 28
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Al Z.: Who’d go eat (much less drink) at a place called Shifty’s? I still remember (barely) a night at a place called Speedy’s. Never again.

  29. 29
    kindness says:

    Democrats do have a significantly more diverse party than Republicans. It is one of the things that makes us stronger, not weaker. That is until the purity ponies start making their demands.

    For myself, I’m tired of reading about Democrats in Disarray in the WaPo when Democrats are doing a great job of voting as a block properly.

  30. 30
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Where are the Republican deficit hawks?

    They hibernate until a Democrat takes office.

  31. 31
    Al Z. says:

    @Gin & Tonic: One of the best dive bars in Central NY I’ll have you know: http://www.shiftysbar.com/shiftysbar/Home.html

  32. 32

    @debbie: The lunatic is no longer the fringe, its the whole cloth.

  33. 33
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Republican deficit hawks come out and screech only when a Democrat is in charge.

  34. 34
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Damn you JGabriel.

  35. 35
    rikyrah says:

    Miss Bianca,

    I am so sorry to hear about Luna😥😥😥

    Sending you (((Hugs)))😪😪😪

  36. 36
    satby says:

    @Al Z.: and like most opinion pieces pretty much out of the writers ass.

    @PaulWartenberg: I was being sarcastic, he’s not ever going to join the Democratic Party for longer than it takes to ratfuck the election. And @Betty Cracker: what Betty says too about the tax returns.

  37. 37
    rikyrah says:

    I just ordered this book.

    For our ‘ class is more important’ folks….here’s a review of the book.

    ‘The Original Black Elite’: A portrait of the first generation to win freedom
    Wendi C. Thomas
    Chicago Tribune

    The progression of civil rights for black Americans is not like climbing a staircase, where the next step orderly follows the one before, the ascent certain if slow.

    For African-Americans, even the most educated and affluent, the climb has been repeatedly interrupted by angry white people setting fire to the stairwell.

    In “The Original Black Elite: Daniel Murray and the Story of a Forgotten Era,” author Elizabeth Dowling Taylor chronicles the colored aristocracy’s brief taste of nearly equal citizenship in the nation’s capital in the late 1880s.

    In doing so, she dismantles the narrative of black Americans post-Civil War as a pitiful mass of slavery’s survivors, destitute and undereducated. Particularly in East Coast cities, the black elites formed social and literary clubs, threw elegant galas, had summer homes and sent their children to the most selective colleges.

    Taylor’s protagonist is Daniel Murray, born free in Baltimore in 1851. He became an entrepreneur, self-taught historian and staunch civil rights activist. He developed real estate, ran for office, petitioned presidents and was a patron of the arts.

    ……………………….

    “They saw themselves as cultural brokers,” writes Taylor, “their success and gentility would inspire the black masses while proving to whites that, given education and opportunity, all African Americans would follow in their footsteps.”

    Their mission was futile and as naive as respectability politics always is. Black excellence, then and now, proved no match for racism.

    In the late 19th century, African-American congressmen from the South began to be replaced by white men. And when President William McKinley sought to appease Southern legislators under the guise of national unity, he welcomed in the virulent racism they brought with them and allowed it to spread throughout the country. Integrated restaurants and hotels were segregated. Federal appointments for black men to stable jobs became scarce. And in 1883, the Supreme Court gutted the Civil Rights Act of 1875, which had guaranteed access to public accommodations regardless of race.

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    OT. Warren must read Balloon Juice because she addressed my question.

    On Friday, the Massachusetts Democrat laid out an ambitious plan aimed at promoting competition in the tech industry and proposing to break up some of the biggest names in the sector. Over the weekend, she discussed the proposal with Nilay Patel at The Verge and confirmed that beyond the three companies she initially named to split up, she would also focus on Apple. She said it would have to choose between running the App Store and distributing the apps in it.

    “Apple, you’ve got to break it apart from their App Store. It’s got to be one or the other. Either they run the platform or they play in the store,” she said. “They don’t get to do both at the same time.”

  39. 39
    rikyrah says:

    @JGabriel:

    Where are the Republican deficit hawks?

    They hibernate during Republican presidential administrations.

    truth.

    gospel truth

  40. 40
    JGabriel says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t despise Bernie nearly as much as some of y’all do, but if he refuses to release his tax returns by April 15, he needs to get the fuck out of the primary.

    Given the ubiquity of people over a certain income level, and/or their tax preparers, who request filing extensions, I’m willing to cut him a little more slack – till, say, October or November 15.

    Ultimately though, it doesn’t make that much difference to me since, this time around, I won’t be voting for Sanders in the primaries anyway. He’s too old, and there are better candidates with more fleshed policy proposals and bona fides – like Warren.

  41. 41
    Wapiti says:

    The “moderate” wing is anti-establishment? That doesn’t make any sense.

  42. 42
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t despise Bernie nearly as much as some of y’all do, but if he refuses to release his tax returns by April 15, he needs to get the fuck out of the primary. If Democrats are going to hold Trump’s crooked, corrupt ass to the fire over his tax returns, we can’t have a Democratic Party primary candidate who refuses to release his own. THAT’S disqualifying, IMO.

    I wouldn’t say that I despise Bernie as much as I really, really, really, really hate him. :)

    But yeah, the SOB needs to release his goddam tax returns.

    Hell, I still don’t quite get how he can run as a Democrat when he ain’t one.

  43. 43
    rikyrah says:

    @satby:

    When did Sanders join the Democratic Party?

    Ask those probing questions….why don’t you…

  44. 44
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Betty Cracker: Why not just say he needs to get the fuck out now and be ahead of it by over a month?

    😁

    I hear our country has many nice forests he could fuck off to to take up knitting. Acres to commune with birds that don’t care about policy details.

  45. 45
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Al Z.: Thanks, but NFW I’m clicking on that link.

  46. 46
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Barbara: I think it’s because the 2016 campaign made him a millionaire, and that’s off-brand. The coyness about it is absurd. He pulled that same shit last time around. Perez needs to set a date, and why not April 15th since that’s the deadline for the rest of us? Give them up or GTFO.

  47. 47
    rikyrah says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t despise Bernie nearly as much as some of y’all do, but if he refuses to release his tax returns by April 15, he needs to get the fuck out of the primary. If Democrats are going to hold Trump’s crooked, corrupt ass to the fire over his tax returns, we can’t have a Democratic Party primary candidate who refuses to release his own. THAT’S disqualifying, IMO.

    I have no problem with this. …it’s absolutely disqualifying.

  48. 48
    JGabriel says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Damn you JGabriel.

    For what? What did I do this time?

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    @JGabriel:

    Given the ubiquity of people over a certain income level, and/or their tax preparers Jane

    Fixed

  50. 50
    Nicole says:

    @Baud:

    And then there’s Baud!

    I see what you did there. Or rather, I hear it. EARWORM.

  51. 51
    satby says:

    @JGabriel: he has the ability to release past returns by 4/15 and could release the latest year a bit further out. He’s had 3 years during which he made it obvious he intended to run again. He thinks his zombie army of bros will deflect the question for him and he can punt the question until he’s eliminated again. He’s only in it for more sweet ca$h.

  52. 52
    eclare says:

    @satby: Truth

  53. 53
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Why? You think the link is shifty?

    Unhand me! I can see myself out.

  54. 54
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @JGabriel: Beat me to the “hibernating”. I don’t edit my comments now because editing screws up my nym.

  55. 55
    chris says:

    this should help.

    Trump budget proposes $845 billion Medicare cutNew w/ @damianpaletta @ericawernerhttps://t.co/0VEz7ZD9pL— Jeff Stein (@JStein_WaPo) 11 March 2019

  56. 56

    It looks like the D debates start in June. He needs to release his taxes by the to participate.

  57. 57
    tobie says:

    @Betty Cracker: It would be throwing a (good) gauntlet down for Perez to say that all declared Democratic candidates need to release their taxes by a certain date. I think he should also specify that 10 years of returns are required and that they should be the complete filing, not just the top two pages.

  58. 58
    Ruckus says:

    @debbie:
    BS has many other disqualifications. The first and foremost is that he isn’t and never has been a democrat, no matter what he says in his publicity bullshit. The second is that he has no actual policy positions, just semi fancy words that add up to mean nothing. The third is that he has no idea how to do the actual work, and we have way too much current proof how well that works. The fourth is that he’s way to old to do the work, this job requires a high level of stamina and cognisant thought and he doesn’t have that now and I’m not sure he ever did.
    That’s enough actual current reasons to disqualify him, his past performance adds another layer of disqualifications.

  59. 59
    BC in Illinois says:

    @Seanly:

    To clarify, I would vote for the Democratic Party candidate even if older than 60. Just that I think we need to move on from the god damn Boomers (and older).

    It is one of the lesser-known aspects of the Green New Deal, that it includes a 10-year plan to phase out all Baby Boomers. That’s ambitious, but attainable.

    BC in Illinois
    ( born during the Truman Administration )

  60. 60
    Al Z. says:

    @BC in Illinois: The Soylent Green New Deal!

  61. 61
    Ruckus says:

    @Seanly:
    Actually this early boomer does.
    Age is subjective but it is also a disqualifier at some point. That point is different for everyone from both sides of the question. But it is a major disqualifier for someone who just wants not to be old. BS wants to live forever and fuck him for that. He’s shown no reason we should give him that ability, he’s done nothing to be worth remembering in the positive and be worth that position.

  62. 62
    Brachiator says:

    @rikyrah:

    ‘The Original Black Elite’: A portrait of the first generation to win freedom
    Wendi C. Thomas
    Chicago Tribune

    Hmm. The Tribune site seems to have a pay wall now. Oh, well.

    Was just going to toss in that this was not the first generation to win freedom. There were always free people of color in America.

    An interesting read is “We Were Always Free: The Maddens of Culpeper County, Virginia: A 200-Year Family History,” by T Madden.

    In August of 1758, in Spotsylvania County, Virginia, a poor Irish immigrant named Mary Madden bore a child, Sarah Madden, whose father was said to be a slave and the property of Colonel James Madison, father of the future president of the United States. This daughter, though born a free mulatto, became indentured to the Madisons. There she worked as a seamstress to pay off the fine of her birth until she was 31 years old.

    Sarah Madden bore ten children and when the term of her indenture was over, she and her youngest son, Willis, struck out for themselves–Sarah as a seamstress, laundress, and later, with Willis, a dairy farmer and tavern keeper. Stories of Willis and Sarah were passed down in Madden family lore through the generations–their hard work, their business sense, their ability to overcome obstacles, poverty, illiteracy, prejudice. This is the chronicle of those generations, a 200-year history of a kind unusually complete in American history. Two factors make it so–that Sarah Madden and her offspring kept their stories alive, and that they saved hundreds of important documents of their freedom, hardship, and daily work.

    Might be on Amazon, but also may officially be out of print, but available at some libraries.

  63. 63

    The Super Progressives
    Very liberal on economic and identity/cultural issues, anti-establishment.

    The Very Progressives
    Very liberal on economic issues, fairly liberal on identity issues, skeptical of the Democratic establishment.

    This is bullshit. The legislators who are very liberal both economically and on civil rights are establishment-curious. They’re learning the Democratic Party mainstream and leadership leans in their direction policy-wise. You know who are anti-establishment? The Democrats and Independents who are economically far left and ‘eh’ on civil rights. The idea that being more economically liberal links to being more civil rights liberal is the delusion of the ignorant or willfully ignorant.

  64. 64
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    Best be careful who you call a troll in the future! ;)

  65. 65
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @BC in Illinois: Hmmmm….I like my Boomer parents, and they both have more than 10 years left on their warranties.

    OTOH, WWII-style mobilization to invade, occupy, and overthrow the sun.

    Global warming solved! What could go wrong?

  66. 66
    Brachiator says:

    @Al Z.:

    The Soylent Green New Deal!

    Now there’s a movie I would like to see!

  67. 67
    jc says:

    Couldn’t we narrow it down to three sub-groups? We don’t want to confuse the super-duper vegan cis progressives from the splitters.

  68. 68
    raven says:

    @rikyrah: American Beach: A Saga of Race, Wealth, and Memory

    In its heyday during the height of segregation, the little resort of American Beach, Florida was the African American Hyannisport, where the crème de la crème of black society came to enjoy what the town motto called “recreation and relaxation without humiliation.” These days, it’s more like the African American Daytona Beach–that is, visited mostly by partying teenagers who come to drink and get rowdy in the town’s deserted streets. What happened between then and now could be fodder for a sociologist’s study, but journalist Russ Rymer turns it instead into a grippingly personal story of race, money, greed, and the struggle over who owns–and interprets–cultural memory.

    At the heart of Rymer’s tale is one of the most fascinating characters to walk the pages of a book this year: MaVynee Betsch, great-granddaughter of Abraham Lincoln Lewis, an African American millionaire and the founder of American Beach. Reared in privilege and culture, sixtyish MaVynee once sang lieder throughout the capitals of Europe. Now she lives the gypsy life in the open air of American Beach, an unforgettable sight in her 18-inch fingernails, cowrie anklets, and five-foot fall of hair. Having given all her money away, MaVynee spends her time evoking the glories of her community’s past and railing against the white-bread resorts, whose golf courses and cookie-cutter condos threaten to swallow her beloved beach. The painful irony is that when the enforced humiliation of segregation ended, so too did the cohesiveness of the black commercial and professional community American Beach once represented. As one resident puts it, “First we had segregation, and then integration. Then disintegration.”

    Rymer’s story ripples outward to encompass bygone black Jacksonville, the killing of an unarmed African American by Amelia Island police, the first incorporated black town in the United States, A.L. Lewis’s Afro-American Life Insurance Company, and revered Harlem Renaissance writer Zora Neale Hurston. But it never loses focus on its fundamental question, a question with equal relevance for both black and white: “Where did mankind’s economic existence and moral existence coincide, and where collide, and where was the boundary between them?” Rymer avoids both ideology and easy answers in this passionate yet even-handed book. –Mary Park

    I was lucky enough to meet MaVynee before she passed away.

  69. 69
    rikyrah says:

    😒😒😒
    Thread on fabricated right-wing #GreenNewDeal talking points. https://t.co/wX9ZG0zl7s

    — Peter Daou (@peterdaou) March 11, 2019

  70. 70
    debbie says:

    @BC in Illinois:

    Did you ever see the movie, “Wild in the Streets”? “Off them when they turn 30!” At the time, I thought 30 was eons away…

  71. 71
    VeniceRiley says:

    I’d have a little more respect for Wilmer if he would be honest. he promised the returns and has been lying about why he has not produced them ever since. It’s been what now? 3 years? I see this as more than about his taxes – It is one of Bernie’s main character flaws.
    I would have respected him more if he just told everyone to f off and he’s not going to release them, because otherwise it puts me (the voter) in the position of having to nag his basic a** about such an easily fulfilled promise. I hate being put in the nag position. It’s a dominance play and I effin hate it!
    What other, more difficult things has he promised, and how much harder it will be to extract results from a President Grandpa Simpson?

  72. 72
    Brachiator says:

    @Baud:

    On Friday, the Massachusetts Democrat laid out an ambitious plan aimed at promoting competition in the tech industry and proposing to break up some of the biggest names in the sector.

    This is just dumb. I have no idea what Warren is trying to accomplish.

    The tech industry may be entering a slump as the smartphone market slows, and tablets and PCs continue to slump (relatively speaking). Companies are already scrambling to try to come up with the next new thing.

    Over the weekend, she discussed the proposal with Nilay Patel at The Verge and confirmed that beyond the three companies she initially named to split up, she would also focus on Apple. She said it would have to choose between running the App Store and distributing the apps in it.

    This is double dumb.

  73. 73
    rikyrah says:

    @Brachiator:

    I know that there have always been free Blacks here, and I do find their stories fascinating. Thanks for the tip

  74. 74
    rikyrah says:

    The Democratic Convention will be in Milwaukee in 2020.

  75. 75
    oatler. says:

    The whole list reads like a Mad Magazine article, but with no Mort Drucker drawings.

  76. 76
    BC in Illinois says:

    @debbie:
    I remember hearing about “Wild in the Streets” (1968), but I never saw it.

    I remember when the rule of “don’t trust anybody over 30” was new.
    I later had to modify the rule to “don’t trust anybody 30 years older than you.”

    A an up-and-coming Septuagenarian, I am happy to approach 2020 with a policy of not voting for anyone older than I am.
    ( Fortunately, I am older than Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris. )

  77. 77
    barbequebob says:

    @Baud: Yes, it’s a pity there are still so many people who help elect regressive Republicans because the Democrat is not progressive enough. These attitudes and behaviors only serve to reverse progress.

  78. 78
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Brachiator: Warren is pretty clear about what she’s trying to accomplish. Here’s a direct quote from the Vox article Baud referenced above:

    “If you run a platform where others come to sell, then you don’t get to sell your own items on the platform because you have two comparative advantages. One, you’ve sucked up information about every buyer and every seller before you’ve made a decision about what you’re going to sell,” Warren said. “And second, you have the capacity — because you run the platform — to prefer your product over anyone else’s product. It gives an enormous comparative advantage to the platform.”

    I don’t know if her approach is the right one, tbh, but the issue she proposes to address isn’t trivial.

  79. 79
    raven says:

    Watch out, it’s that scumbag Brickovenbill.

  80. 80

    @BC in Illinois:

    I remember when the rule of “don’t trust anybody over 30” was new.

    Anyone under 30 would be insane to trust me. My god, I’m an author! We’re not DECENT people.

  81. 81
    Lapassionara says:

    @chris: WTF!

  82. 82
    WhatsMyNym says:

    @Brachiator:

    I have no idea what Warren is trying to accomplish.

    I agree with you. You just have to look at Apple’s past history of business cycles (and remember what happened to Nokia & Motorola) to wonder if it will matter in 2 years time.
    Also, Amazon may be at a peak in a business cycle.

  83. 83
    debbie says:

    @Lapassionara:

    If that doesn’t hurt his standing with his base, then nothing will.

  84. 84
    wkwv says:

    Six wings, hmmm…I know! A dragonfly with a hitchhiker. ( ;>)

  85. 85
    bemused says:

    @raven:

    A blast from the past on BJ. Whatever happened to brickoven?

  86. 86
    raven says:

    @bemused:barbequebob

  87. 87
    WhatsMyNym says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    If you run a platform where others come to sell, then you don’t get to sell your own items on the platform because you have two comparative advantages

    She’s overlooking that even brick & mortar stores do this. They bring out store brand products that compete directly with better selling products in their stores. And many companies are offering open marketplaces on their websites; Walmart, Newegg, Sears, etc, etc…it’s not limited to Amazon.

  88. 88
    glory b says:

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve noticed that he now rails against Billionaires, not millionaires and billionaires, so yeah.

  89. 89
    rikyrah says:

    FOR THE BLEACHER SEATS 😒😒

    Propane Jane™ (@docrocktex26) Tweeted:
    Identity politics weren’t an issue until everyone who isn’t a straight White man/woman started demanding (and winning) a seat at the table and the power/privilege to make policy. https://twitter.com/docrocktex26/status/1104823623368486915?s=17

  90. 90
    rikyrah says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Give them up or GTFO.

    YESS!!!!

  91. 91

    @WhatsMyNym: Its not just tech grocery stores do it too!

  92. 92
    rikyrah says:

    Jon Favreau (@jonfavs) Tweeted:
    From a pure political perspective, this is – by far – the most radical, unpopular proposal that any 2020 candidate had put forward thus far.

    Every Democrat should be talking about this every day. Start running the ads now and don’t stop until Election Day. https://t.co/OfHHQHQf2a https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/1105145416604016650?s=17

  93. 93
    Betty Cracker says:

    @raven: I don’t think so.

    @WhatsMyNym: Fair point about store brand products, but do any of the brick-and-mortar outlets own as large a chunk of their category as Amazon does? Also, when Walmart is peddling “Great Value” brand butter, they can’t bury competing products in the dairy case as effectively as Amazon hides its competitors’ merch in the search pane.

    For online services like reviews, there’s the problem of Google burying links to showcase its own review system, which is pretty crappy.

    It’s a complicated issue, and the quote I highlighted above only captures a tiny part of what Warren is trying to address, which includes entities like Facebook buying up apps that threaten its market at such a clip that venture capitalists shy away from investing in startups that will be swallowed and consumers don’t benefit from new innovation.

    I’m sure there’s plenty to criticize about Warren’s proposal, but at least she’s talking about real problems in a substantive way.

  94. 94
    rikyrah says:

    Jonathan Capehart (@CapehartJ) Tweeted:
    Txt from my mom: Who is O’Roke and what has he done to make him a rockstar for the Dems

    #goodquestion https://twitter.com/CapehartJ/status/1105137718621814784?s=17

  95. 95
    Kay says:

    @raven:

    Hah! Good catch. Brick oven bill is a birther. I just want that remembered.

  96. 96
    Ruviana says:

    To Miss Bianca: Like Immanentize I’ve been thinking endlessly of Luna. I am so sorry that her story ended this way but I am relieved that you know the outcome, however sad. Some of the things one imagines can be awful and now you know. I am more sorry than I can say.

  97. 97
    rikyrah says:

    Yes .
    Walk and chew gum at the same time

    Brian Schatz (@brianschatz) Tweeted:
    I get that our candidates are focusing on telling their own stories and talking about what they will do if they win. That’s smart. But nothing is preventing the rest of us from pointing out that the President just proposed massive cuts to Medicare. https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1105157707701444608?s=17

  98. 98
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Warren is pretty clear about what she’s trying to accomplish. Here’s a direct quote from the Vox article Baud referenced above

    I was being rhetorical. I see what she is doing. It’s stupid.

    She’s done. Trump is a grifter and a fool, but he pretends to want to help America’s businesses. Warner has gone from a strong consumer and regulatory advocate to a busy body who wants to micro-manage companies to no clear benefit.

    Voters are simple. They want simple answers. Warren is proposing solutions where voters don’t see a clear problem or something that is going to benefit them.

  99. 99
    tobie says:

    @Betty Cracker: I think the way that brick-and-mortar operations use their stores and brands to wipe out competition is by selling below cost, as Amazon does, to get customers hooked. Then they start listing items on their website (at the back of the list) but don’t stock them in the shop. How we get past the consolidation of all retail operations in the US–physical or virtual–is beyond me. Mr. tobie was complaining yesterday, in another context, that we break up Ma Belle only to be stuck with a choice of Verizon or ATT if we want a cell phone that has a reasonably broad network nationally. I’m not sure how to respond to this phenomenon in a way that doesn’t sound like I’m longing for the days of the country store.

  100. 100
    guachi says:

    Warren is promoting solutions to things that most of us don’t see as major problems.

    Or even minor problems.

  101. 101
    ruemara says:

    Well, it’s an article. If it was on paper, it would be useful as birdcage lining.

    @rikyrah: lol, be white, male, young and good looking. Appeal to white people in a purplish state to the point of almost winning. “Giving up really quickly.

  102. 102
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s a complicated issue, and the quote I highlighted above only captures a tiny part of what Warren is trying to address, which includes entities like Facebook buying up apps that threaten its market at such a clip that venture capitalists shy away from investing in startups that will be swallowed and consumers don’t benefit from new innovation.

    A Democrat trying to help venture capitalists. Very interesting.

  103. 103
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Brachiator:
    This early in the race, it’s hard to say for certain that a particular candidate is already shot themselves in the foot by having said the wrong thing. I don’t see anything wrong with Warren talking about how companies that operate marketplaces that other businesses depend on (as Apple and Amazon do) should be regulated.

  104. 104
    Mandalay says:

    I notice Kirsten “#metoo” Gillibrand does not appear in the list of prominent Democrats in the bullet list in the OP. Perhaps the author was already aware that her campaign is dumpster bound after this doozy of a revelation:

    Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.), one of the most outspoken advocates of the #MeToo movement who has made fighting sexual misconduct a centerpiece of her presidential campaign, spent last summer pressing legislators to update Congress’ “broken” system of handling sexual harassment.

    At the same time, a mid-20s female aide to Gillibrand resigned in protest over the handling of her sexual harassment complaint by Gillibrand‘s office, and criticized the senator for failing to abide by her own public standards.

    In July, the female staffer alleged one of Gillibrand’s closest aides — who was a decade her senior and married — repeatedly made unwelcome advances after the senator had told him he would be promoted to a supervisory role over her. She also said the male aide regularly made crude, misogynistic remarks in the office about his female colleagues and potential female hires.

    This is from the brutal letter that was sent to Gillibrand last August:

    Your office chose to go against your public belief that women shouldn’t accept sexual harassment in any form and portrayed my experience as a misinterpretation instead of what it actually was: harassment and ultimately, intimidation. I have offered my resignation because of how poorly the investigation and post-investigation was handled”

    It’s surely over for Gillibrand after this. Trump and her Democratic rivals can ram that letter down her throat every time she goes into #metoo mode, and she won’t have a leg to stand on.

  105. 105
    hilts says:

    @debbie: @Ruckus:

    Bernie Sanders’ 1st disqualification for me is his age and that goes for Joe Biden as well. The notion of anyone taking office as President at 77 years old is beyond batshit insane. I’m fed up with people glossing over the age question for these guys. Besides releasing his tax returns, Sanders should release a minimum of 25 years of medical records and the same should apply to Biden as well.

  106. 106
    Brachiator says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    This early in the race, it’s hard to say for certain that a particular candidate is already shot themselves in the foot by having said the wrong thing. I don’t see anything wrong with Warren talking about how companies that operate marketplaces that other businesses depend on (as Apple and Amazon do) should be regulated.

    You make a good point. And I don’t have any favorite candidate and will support whoever gets the nomination.

    However, I think that right now, the fumbling of a number of candidates is handing re-election to Trump. I guess I see how Warren is trying to expand her consumer focus. But nobody really gives a shit about Apple and Amazon or how they operate in the marketplace, with the exception of how Amazon treats its employees.

    Again, Trump’s shit is phony, but simple. He promises more jobs and a pro-America trade policy. He also pushes the GOP lies that its only excesssive federal regulation that stifles competition. Warren’s proposals feed into that narrative.

  107. 107
    Tazj says:

    @Ruviana: Oh no! I’ve been looking for news, when I can.I’m so sorry for Bianca.

  108. 108
    chris says:

    @hilts: In my ideal world, a president should be young enough to see the effects of some of his policies. My cutoff would be 60 at most.

  109. 109

    @Brachiator:@Betty Cracker: I am not a corporate lawyer or a securities lawyer but wouldn’t it make much more sense to spin off different divisions as separate companies. Like for example YouTube could be spun off from Google, Instagram from Facebook and so on.

  110. 110
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @rikyrah: I’m already seeing Kamala Harris’ campaign hitting him about it on Facebook. She’s also noting that he’s doing this while asking for another 8+ billion for his wall. The trolls are already attacking for conflating $8b for the wall with ~$850b in health care cuts.

    @Kay: Wait, he’s back? I didn’t see him.

    @hilts: If Bernie’s the nominee I’ll vote for him. My wife too, though she’s already barred me from ever donating to his campaign (even in the general) because of some things he’s said about women and racists. My big disqualifier with him is that he’s not leading a movement, he’s attacking his allies and trying to gain personally from that attack. The Democrats have been FAR more effective than him in bringing change, and he’s just shitting all over them.

    The age is also important, as is his inability to treat women’s or minority issues seriously. As is his apparent complete lack of a plan on how to do any of the things he proposes.

  111. 111
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Brachiator: Warren is still a strong consumer and regulatory advocate — see the Accountable Capitalism Act and the Anti-Corruption and Public Integrity Act as two recent examples.

    Maybe she’s taking the wrong approach to address the problems big tech creates (I honestly do not know), but she does outline a clear benefit — a more level playing field for startups and more innovative products and services as well as more privacy protections for consumers.

    Possibly this issue won’t resonate with voters, but it’s not “dumb” or “stupid.” These are real problems. IMO, it’s a positive development that someone is talking about them.

    @tobie: Good point about selling at a loss to drive competitors out as a strategy. Agree that it’s a thorny issue in both the digital and physical space.

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m pretty sure that’s what Warren is proposing.

  112. 112
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Brachiator:

    Again, Trump’s shit is phony, but simple. He promises more jobs and a pro-America trade policy.

    Yeah, and how’s that been working out?

  113. 113
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: His supporters STILL believe the wall is necessary and that Trump is doing a great job, so… it’s working out pretty well for Trump, actually.

    Just really badly for the rest of us.

  114. 114
    chopper says:

    @raven:

    oh FFS, that fucker? what is it, throwback week? bring back BIRDZILLA, i say.

  115. 115
    Aleta says:

    To me this shows someone willing to barter for/purchase coverage in H Hewitt’s columns. (Not linking. He’s at WaPo.)

    … Would you vote for a Bobby Kennedy-like candidate over Trump in 2020?

    Do today’s Democrats have anyone — anyone at all — who is serious about national security? Who is, as Sens. Henry “Scoop” Jackson, John Glenn and Sam Nunn used to be, a voice for a Democratic Party committed to the use of American power abroad….

    Not yet. Don’t say “What about former vice president Joe Biden?” … And Bernie Sanders, Kamala D. Harris and the rest are all to his left.

    But if Marine Corps veteran — four tours in Iraq and the recipient of a Bronze Star — Rep. Seth Moulton (D-Mass.) steps onto the stage, Democratic voters in the primaries will be startled by his seriousness on national security.

    They should notice he is the perfect challenger to Trump (who is praying for Sanders but will settle for Elizabeth Warren or Harris). There’s a lot of “Bobby” in Moulton when it comes to scrappiness. And there are a lot of Republicans who would have to give him a hard look, as they will any Democrat who spends time making the case that he or she won’t spend a presidency apologizing for the United States, but defending it.

    There is no candidate more qualified to talk persuasively about defending the national interest than one who has actually done just that — defended the country while risking life and limb. Keep an eye on Moulton.

  116. 116
    Kent says:

    These left to right spectrum rankings are really rather absurd. It would be more accurate to list the top 10 or so Dem agenda items and then rank candidates’ interest or emphasis on each one. They are not necessarily linked.

    Climate Change
    Other environmental issues (endangered species, water quality etc.)
    Education
    Health Care
    Social Security
    Social Justice & Criminal Justice (BLM etc.)
    Working class, wages, unions etc.
    Election reform
    Corporate reform, anti-trust (Elizabeth Warren stuff)

    A candidate might be strongly left on climate and environmental issues but corporatist when it comes to wall street and education (charter schools).

    Or a candidate might be very left on union and worker issues but not really give a shit about the environment.

    Reality is a lot more complex than just a left-right spectrum

  117. 117
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Brachiator: She’s not trying to “help venture capitalists” — she’s noting a market condition that indicates a tougher climate for startups.

  118. 118
    Brachiator says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Again, Trump’s shit is phony, but simple. He promises more jobs and a pro-America trade policy.

    Yeah, and how’s that been working out?

    Actually, it’s been working out pretty well. People buy Trump’s bullshit. The economy has been adding jobs, even though you really can’t give Trump credit for this. But he is in office and benefits anyway. His trade policy is kinda dumb. But he is president and gets to push it. I haven’t seen what the Democrats offer on trade policy yet.

    ETA: Trump is even benefiting somewhat with the BREXIT confusion. Everyone can promise unicorns and puppies after BREXIT is resolved. But we ain’t there yet, nor can anyone really predict the consequences.

  119. 119

    @schrodingers_cat: …iMessage and Facetime from Apple.

  120. 120
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am not a corporate lawyer or a securities lawyer but wouldn’t it make much more sense to spin off different divisions as separate companies. Like for example YouTube could be spun off from Google, Instagram from Facebook and so on.

    Why? Who cares?

    @Betty Cracker:

    She’s not trying to “help venture capitalists” — she’s noting a market condition that indicates a tougher climate for startups.

    I see venture capitalists as a lot of greedy bastards who play with money. What’s it to me if they flail? And I don’t see any clear connection between breaking up existing companies and creating an environment for start ups.

  121. 121
    eemom says:

    @Aleta:

    Moulton? Isn’t that the asshole who publicly stomped his own dick three or four times while trying to torpedo Pelosi?

    What spectacular drek, even for the WaPo.

  122. 122
    MomSense says:

    @Juju:

    Maroon 5

  123. 123
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Brachiator:

    I see venture capitalists as a lot of greedy bastards who play with money. What’s it to me if they flail?

    Again, she’s not trying to help venture capitalists. They aren’t the ones who are flailing.

    And I don’t see any clear connection between breaking up existing companies and creating an environment for start ups.

    You might want to learn more about what Warren is proposing before criticizing it, then. Seriously, damn.

  124. 124
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud:

    Apple, you’ve got to break it apart from their App Store. It’s got to be one or the other. Either they run the platform or they play in the store,” she said. “They don’t get to do both at the same time.

    Does that even make sense? This seems totally arbitrary to me. Breaking the App Store apart from the apple platform seems like really small potatoes – nothing like the big stuff she wants to break up.

    Maybe someone can explain it to me.

  125. 125
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    I am curious why are the conservative Dems in the party since they seem to have so little in common with the rest of the party on policy. Are they simply anti-poisoned Koolaid drinking and won’t join in the rest of the right’s mass suicide?

  126. 126
    hilts says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    If Bernie’s the nominee I’ll vote for him.

    I’ll vote for any Democrat over Trump, but I hope enough people have the good sense to realize that a 77 year old is too dam big a risk.

    You have the coolest screen name on this thread.

  127. 127

    @hilts: People over 70 are especially an issue since we’d prefer them to be there for the next 8 years

  128. 128
    ruemara says:

    @WaterGirl: It does mystify me because how does Apple dominate a market through the Apple Store?

  129. 129
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    You might want to learn more about what Warren is proposing before criticizing it, then. Seriously, damn.

    I understand what Warren is proposing. I don’t see a serious problem being addressed, nor do I see a “solution” that produces anything significant or beneficial, and certainly not anything that the average voter cares about.

    I don’t even see anything that sounds good on paper.

    For what’s it’s worth, there are a couple of longish analyses of Warren’s proposals that I am going to try to go through later this evening. Maybe I will see something new.

  130. 130
    Mart says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Goes to show what a great job Nancy Smash does.

  131. 131
    WaterGirl says:

    @ruemara: Right! They are dominating their own market. This is a dumb move on Warren’s part.

  132. 132
    hilts says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    People over 70 are especially an issue since we’d prefer them to be there for the next 8 years

    I agree 100% with your sentiments.

    I hope, but don’t expect, the media to push Sanders and Biden to release an unprecedented amount of medical records because they’re asking voters to take a big fucking risk by supporting a candidate so old.

  133. 133
    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I’m with you. I don’t think that will solve much of anything.

  134. 134
    debbie says:

    @hilts:

    And no clown doctor from Lennox Hill!

  135. 135
    barbequebob says:

    @raven:

    Sorry, I’m not Brick Oven Bill. I’m just a lurker who comments on rare occasions.

    My name may have alliterative qualities similar to BOB but that is just coincidence.

  136. 136
    J R in WV says:

    @Ruckus:

    To shorten and organize Ruckus’s excellent resume problems for Senator Sanders::

    1. He isn’t and never has been a democrat, no matter what he says in his publicity bullshit.

    2. He has no actual policy positions.

    3. He has no idea how to do the actual work.

    4. he’s way to old to do the work.

    Also, to add my own items to Sen Sanders resume of problem issues:

    [5] Russian stooge for the past 20 years, a Soviet stooge before that.

    [6] Misogynist bastard, allows sexual harassment/abuse among his campaign staff.

    [7] Mean-spirited prick, just listen to him!!

    Won’t vote for him, under any circumstances. If necessary, I will write in someone I respect, like Beto, or Sen Warren.

  137. 137
    Betty Cracker says:

    @barbequebob: FWIW, I believe you. For obscure reasons that are irrelevant to this conversation, your nym is memorable to me, and I know you’ve been commenting occasionally for a few years and have never said anything offensive or trollish that I saw — quite the opposite of the brick oven dude. I hope unfounded accusations of trolling won’t prevent you from commenting in the future.

  138. 138
    J R in WV says:

    @Brachiator:

    You make it very clear you don’t regard corporate monopoly as an economic problem. So, take this concept to its logical end: one giant corporation owns all the grocery stores, all the corporate farms, agribusiness in general.

    How much will your monthly food cost you?

    If one corporation owns all the networking, how much will your internet connection cost you?

    Are you also anti-union? If there was one employer in your state, and no unions were legal, how much money would you earn a week? How about with no minimum wage?

    Your complete lack of knowledge of economic history is really showing here. I use Amazon some, but I am also aware of their monopoly power, and I distrust them on that account. The only way to control that monopoly power is via anti-trust regulations that address newly discovered monopoly power of new kinds of business based on new technologies. Like Amazon, Apple, MS, etc.

    Back in the day, IBM was controlled to a limited way by anti-trust rules. But the Republicans, pro-business in all ways, have broken the trust controls, the NLRB, intended to prevent companies from breaking unions, the FCC, intended to limit the control of big business over communications via TV, the FEC, intended to control political contributions, etc, etc.

    But you are fine with all the Republican work intended to break government regulation to protect us from big business? Stupid! You might as well work to re-elect Trump!!

  139. 139
    J R in WV says:

    @ruemara:

    It does mystify me because how does Apple dominate a market through the Apple Store?

    Because no one can sell a program to run on Apple devices except via the Apple Store. Apple devices are half of all the smart phones there are, roughly, and Google’s Android based Play Store is the other half of the smart phone market. Apple has total control over the market for software to run on their platform.

    Just as Amazon has total control over sales on their platform. Just as IBM once owned nearly 100% of the business software market in the mainframe era, which began ending around 1985. Just as Standard Oil once owned all of the petroleum business in the US, before their monopoly was broken up by anti-trust regulation, yes by the government.

    Imagine how much fuel would cost if there was only one source for fuel~!!!~

    Imagine how much the medication to keep you alive will cost if there’s only one source for that medication~!!!~ Oh, wait — we don’t have to imagine, Insulin costs hundreds of dollars a month to keep diabetics alive ~!!!~

  140. 140
    Brachiator says:

    @J R in WV:

    Apple has total control over the market for software to run on their platform.

    If only there were non-Apple smartphones.

    Just as Amazon has total control over sales on their platform.

    If only there were other online or brick and mortar retailers.

    Just as IBM once owned nearly 100% of the business software market in the mainframe era, which began ending around 1985.

    Thank heavens IBM was broken up in 1986.

    Non-issues. Non-problems.

    ETA: An EU commission, citing all the anti-trust rules and history, prevented a merger of German and French rail businesses. The companies reasonably protested, noting that neither company alone could compete with a huge Chinese company. (‘This will only help China’: France furious after EU derails train-merger)

    You cannot apply 19th century thinking to 21st century problems.

  141. 141
    Brachiator says:

    @J R in WV:

    You make it very clear you don’t regard corporate monopoly as an economic problem

    No. Sanders bloviates about Big Banks, with no clear solution to clearly stated problems.

    “Big Tech” is not the same thing as clear corporate monopolies. There is still a large degree of fluidity and newly developing tech sectors. Smart watches, smart homes, VR technologies, games, video streaming, 5g broadband and new services that may develop, smart glasses and other devices. Younger people are already moving away from FaceBook and its offshoots.

    Apple has to re-invent itself as the smartphone market becomes more mature and PC, tablet and smartphone sales slip or stabilize. Other companies have their own challenges.

    Are you also anti-union?

    No, but unions are in huge decline, and the Democrats ain’t bringing them back anytime soon.

    Your complete lack of knowledge of economic history is really showing here.

    Bite me. And I say this with all due respect.

    But you are fine with all the Republican work intended to break government regulation to protect us from big business?

    Nope. Not even.

  142. 142
    Ruckus says:

    @hilts:
    Probably never see this but I’m not all that much younger than BS or JB and 25 yrs of my medical records would tell you nothing more than the last 8. I’d say the last ten, same as tax records. But even then a ten yr old medical condition, unless it was dementia probably wouldn’t be disqualifying. We’ve had a president in a wheel chair and he did OK for his time. Sure good health is important but it seems 65 to 75 is the time when most big things go wrong in the average old fart’s life.

  143. 143
    Ruckus says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Agreed on the Apple Store issue.
    I’m an Apple customer and all of the approved apps are sold in the Apple Store. I’d bet that a non Apple hardware customer could purchase something there but as far as I’ve seen there isn’t even anything to purchase other than apps that run on an Apple product. There are products that will run on more than one platform that are sold there but really the Apple Store is just where Apple customers shop. And even all Apple updates come out of the store. Breaking it up would be a serious disservice to the already Apple hardware customers.

  144. 144
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    I wasn’t trying to run BS down, even though he needs that, I was just giving out an honest resume.
    I thank you for filling it out so well and running him over with the truth.

Comments are closed.