You Say You Want a Resolution

The text of the resolution that the House is voting on today is out [pdf]. It’s a broad condemnation of anti-Semitism, Islamaphobia and racism, carefully crafted to make no Democrat especially happy and no Democrat especially angry (maybe, we’ll see).

My prediction is that a fair number of Republicans will vote against it because it doesn’t defend the real victims: white Evangelical Christians.






215 replies
  1. 1
    MattF says:

    I suppose that if it makes everyone equally unhappy, it will have served its purpose.

    May I mention that I am very very very very very weary of ‘Dems in disarray’ clickbait?

  2. 2
    Sab says:

    Yay. Rob Portman gets to vote for hate and intolerance. He probably won’t even see the irony.

  3. 3
    Aleta says:

    Thanks. I think you’re right; and they’ll lie that it’s ‘more evidence’ of RWC persecution.

  4. 4
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Once again, religion ruins everything.

  5. 5
    dmsilev says:

    the real victims: white male Evangelical Christians.

    Fixed for completeness.

  6. 6
    Aleta says:

    weary of ‘Dems in disarray’ clickbait

    @MattF: I bet we see even more of that as coverage of crimes and impeachment increases. Because media corporations pretend that article count and word clouds are the measure of balanced and fair.

  7. 7
    BC in Illinois says:

    Okay.

    A resolution to ” . . . confront the reality of anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, racism, and other forms of bigotry . . .” That goes into detail of historic Anti-Semitism, white nationalism, the Klan, white supremacists, attacks on Synagogues, attacks on Mosques, the internment of Japanese-Americans, the history of “dual loyalty” as a slur, and includes this kind of language to keep the Republicans on their toes:

    Whereas scapegoating and targeting of Jews in the United
    States have persisted for many years, including by the
    Ku Klux Klan, the America First Committee, and by
    modern neo-Nazis;
    Whereas accusing Jews of being more loyal to Israel or to the
    Jewish community than to the United States constitutes
    anti-Semitism because it suggests that Jewish citizens
    cannot be patriotic Americans and trusted neighbors,
    when Jews have loyally served our Nation every day since
    its founding, whether in public or community life or military service;

    I hope it achieves the goal that I have for it – – to put this to rest and move on.

    It puts down a marker for all in the public eye, and for all of us:
    –to be careful how we speak.
    –to be careful how we judge.

    We are all in this together.

  8. 8
    James E Powell says:

    I have to put aside how much I hate this whole episode and hope it fades in significance.The Democratic Party tendency of bowing to RW pressure is the bane of the nation.

  9. 9
    Jeffro says:

    I’m confused, was there some sort of controversy over some Rep’s remarks recently or something?

  10. 10
    Mary G says:

    Ru-roh, WaPo digging up old dirt on Uncle Joe with article titled Biden’s tough talk on 1970s school desegregation plan could get new scrutiny in today’s Democratic Party

    Biden took a lead role in the fight, speaking out repeatedly and forcefully against sending white children to majority-black schools and black children to majority-white schools. He played down the persistence of overt racism and suggested that the government should have a limited role in integration.

    “I do not buy the concept, popular in the ’60s, which said, ‘We have suppressed the black man for 300 years and the white man is now far ahead in the race for everything our society offers. In order to even the score, we must now give the black man a head start, or even hold the white man back, to even the race,’ ” Biden told a Delaware-based weekly newspaper in 1975. “I don’t buy that.”

    In language that bears on today’s debate about whether descendants of slaves should be compensated, he added, “I don’t feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation. And I’ll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago.”

    It’s unfortunate, because he has been liberal on almost everything except busing, and was VP to Obama, but Republican/Russian/Rose/FakeBlack Twitter is going to be all over this now.

  11. 11
    Kraux Pas says:

    I’m glad they crafted it the way they did and aren’t using this opportunity to single out any *particular* members.

  12. 12
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Sab: LOL. When you are proven correct, I think I’ll call his offices and taunt his interns.

  13. 13
    geg6 says:

    Fuck this bullshit. I know Nancy tried hard to make this as fair as possible, but…

    Fuck this bullshit. What they’ve now done is make me even more disdainful of AIPAC, Likud and Israel’s willing accomplices in my own party. Personally, I want a House resolution condemning Israeli apartheid.

    Just fuck this bullshit.

  14. 14
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Mary G: WaPo also apparently reporting that Michael Cohen is suing the Trump Org. for $1.9M in unpaid legal fees. Nice to know that Trump is consistent and stiffs *everybody*.

  15. 15
    Duane says:

    @MattF: Learning to disregard all the clickbait is another reason I appreciate this place. The conservative framing by MSM is glaring. There is no “both sides.”

  16. 16
    Kraux Pas says:

    @geg6:

    I want a House resolution condemning Israeli apartheid.

    Ooh! Yes, please.

  17. 17
    geg6 says:

    When is the Manafort sentencing? I need a good sentencing to make up for this major show of cowardice.

  18. 18
    oldster says:

    Republicans are still pushing for a resolution that condemns calling racists racists.

    “Whereas the real racists are the people who call anyone racist,
    and whereas the real victims of racism are any white people who are criticized for their racism,
    and whereas…”

  19. 19
    Brachiator says:

    It puts down a marker for all in the public eye, and for all of us:
    –to be careful how we speak.
    –to be careful how we judge.

    What a load of horse shit. Because this does not apply to Trump and Republicans. It does not apply to the goobers who support this idiot.

    Today’s google doodle honors the mathematician Olga Ladyzhenskaya. She had a hard time getting a job, was suspected as being a poor citizen by the government and could not leave the Soviet Union.

    In 1937 her father was arrested by the NKVD and executed as an “enemy of the people”.

    We have a president who has branded the press as an enemy of the people and who regularly suggests that Obama judges and appointees are, by definition, unfair and probably un-American. Right wing fools regularly stir up anti-semites and racists and foolishly believe that they can safely channel bigotry for their own political ends.

    Meanwhile the Democrats are wasting time coming up with bullshit resolutions to address non-issues.

  20. 20
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Brachiator:

    Meanwhile the Democrats are wasting time coming up with bullshit resolutions to address non-issues.

    Fortunately they can walk and chew gum at the same time.

  21. 21
    The Lodger says:

    @Mary G: Joe was a vocal opponent of busing in his first campaign for New Castle County commissioner back in the 70s. Since it hasn’t been a hot issue for decades, it’s interesting that the media is starting to go after that part of his history. I also don’t know how much he’s changed.

  22. 22
    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner) says:

    I applaud the Democrats for this. It would’ve looked really bad if they refused to follow the precedent of all the resolutions Republicans passed condemning Steve King’s open and flagrant racism.

  23. 23
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Johnny Gentle (famous crooner):

    I applaud the Democrats for this. It would’ve looked really bad if they refused to follow the precedent of all the resolutions Republicans passed condemning Steve King’s open and flagrant racism

    That said, I wish their reference to politicians using racism for political gain, like Steve King does, was a little less…oblique.

  24. 24
    Mandalay says:

    @geg6:

    What they’ve now done is make me even more disdainful of AIPAC, Likud and Israel’s willing accomplices in my own party.

    This.

    The absurd and false charges that were hurled at Rep. Omar were carefully crafted to divert attention from a larger issue she raised: the preferential treatment Israel receives from the US government.

    While the media blathered about “tropes”, conflated hostility to Israel’s policies with antisemitism, and pondered whether Omar was worse than Steve King, discussion of issues such as why we even give a dime of aid to Israel were shelved.

    Omar has surely learned from this, and won’t make so easy for Pelosi next time. If she uses more carefully crafted words that can’t be disingenuously framed as being antisemitic the leadership is going to have to start talking about the elephant in the room. And Sanders, Harris and Warren have her back now.

  25. 25
    Kdaug says:

    Here in TX, hogs are making a comeback. It was one thing when they were out in some fields or forests somewhere. It’s another when they’re tearing up lawns and pets start disappearing

    Interesting times

  26. 26
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Mandalay:

    and won’t make so easy for Pelosi next time. If she uses more carefully crafted words that can’t be disingenuously framed as being antisemitic

    That’s exactly it, though. Pelosi even said this in her statement yesterday – that Omar didn’t have any anti-semitic intention but that the words she used were a potential problem for many. This is bullshit and Pelosi knows it, but she can’t risk having the Democrats be seen as the “anti-semitic” party by the media, which was a real risk here without some kind of action.

  27. 27
    rikyrah says:

    This entire thing is absolute bullshyt.

    But, I am thankful for those out in the hinterlands, who took to the phones, emails, faxes, to contact their Democrats, and told them that the original bullshyt aimed at Omar was unacceptable.

  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    @geg6:

    Fuck this bullshit. What they’ve now done is make me even more disdainful of AIPAC, Likud and Israel’s willing accomplices in my own party. Personally, I want a House resolution condemning Israeli apartheid.

    Just fuck this bullshi

    tell it. preach it.

    And come sit by me

  29. 29

    @Kdaug:
    I think there’s a swing back in the direction of wild (technically feral in the case of hogs) making a comeback in populated areas because people’s attitudes toward nature have changed. We’re much more likely to see problems with wild animals as being a result of us encroaching on their territory rather than of them being problematic. Today when a wild animal starts killing people’s pets, there are calls to be more careful with the pets. A couple of generations ago, it would have been used as justification for an extermination campaign, or at least for a massive increase in the number of hunting licenses.

  30. 30
    geg6 says:

    OT but my niece just literally saved someone’s life. She was on a field trip to the Carnegie Science Center in Pittsburgh with her AP biology class and they were having lunch. She was yacking with her friends and not paying attention when one of them choked on a chicken nugget and also vomited while choking. One of the boys tried the the Heimlich but, not being trained, was unsuccessful. That’s when Caitlin noticed, got up and shoved him out the way, saying “I’m trained in this” (she’s a lifeguard at the local Y). She did the Heimlich and got him breathing and stayed with him until the cops, firefighters and paramedics got there. He’s now at the nearby trauma center and the pros were all congratulating and calling her a hero. When they got back to school, the whole high school was waiting to cheer for her. Between this and her recent opportunity to do orthopedic surgery on a cadaver has made her decision to major in pre-med when she goes off to college next year look pretty solid. So proud of her and her cool head.

  31. 31
    Mike in DC says:

    The absurd irony of cracking down on a member of Congress who dares suggest that Israel(actually, Likud) has an outsize influence on American policy does not escape me.

  32. 32
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    @Kdaug: They have been for a long time. A friend of mine owns some acreage down Houston way. He has a retired DPS officer living in a trailer on site. One night a few years back, a herd of wild hogs swarmed his place and destroyed everything – fences, porch, garden, etc. Killed two of his dogs too. Now the poor bastard is afraid to venture out at night.

    Hogs have been a big problem for farmers and ranchers for years. Now that pets are starting to go missing – maybe the rest of us will notice. Hopefully before humans do.

  33. 33
  34. 34
    Martin says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Eh. Some of it is racism. Some of it is ass-covering for shoving dollars into Saudi Arabia and then struggling to justify a moral reason for doing that, so shoving a comparable number of dollars into Saudi Arabia’s target at least gives them some cover. Religion is just one sin of many in this shitshow.

  35. 35
    Ninedragonspot says:

    @geg6: That is an awesome story, just what I needed today.

  36. 36
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    My prediction is that a fair number of Republicans will vote against it because it doesn’t defend the real victims: white Evangelical Christians.

    Sounds like a thing of beauty then.

  37. 37
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    @Gin & Tonic: They tried that! Not enough guns. In Texas!!! Go figure.

  38. 38
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @geg6: AMAZING!

  39. 39
    raven says:

    @geg6: Good job. I was a WSI way back in the day and the Aquatics Director a the Y asked me if I wanted to become a guard when I retire. It sounds like the physical part of the Life Saver Curriculum is not nearly as rigorous as it used to be. May give it a whirl.

  40. 40
    raven says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: I takes more than just “a gun” to kill one of those fuckers.

  41. 41
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @James E Powell:

    The Democratic Party tendency of bowing to RW pressure is the bane of the nation.

    Was this a case of rightwing pressure, though? AFAICT this was mostly pressure from Northeastern Jewish moderate/center-left professional-class types like the ones I grew up around in the 1980s.

  42. 42
    Wapiti says:

    @Roger Moore: I think hunting is waning, despite or because of the nuttification of gun culture. (ie, assume a random population of gun owners, some assholes and some 1950s model good hunters. People don’t want asshole hunters on their land, so the land is posted, and the good hunters have fewer places to hunt, and the sport declines.)

  43. 43
    geg6 says:

    @Ninedragonspot:
    @FlipYrWhig:
    @raven:

    What’s so amazing is that I know this kid and the one she shoved out of the way. Caitlin is just a tiny little thing, maybe 5’1″ and 100 pounds. And there she was, shoving a football lineman out of the way to, basically, pick up a basketball player and bounce him around until the nugget came out. She’s a tough little thing.

  44. 44
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @Mary G:

    Republican/Russian/Rose/ FakeBlack Twitter is going to be all over this now.

    Not just Bots and Trolls…

    I think it’s a completely legitimate topic for discussion – this is part of Biden’s political history. And it pisses me off. I already am not a Joe Biden fan (there are lots of reasons, mostly regarding his pre-Obama politics) – but this shit is real and isn’t going away.

    DON’T RUN, JOE!!!

  45. 45
    Mandalay says:

    Kirsten Gillibrand proudly (shamelessly?) stands with the Republican Party:

    Those with critical views of Israel, such as Congresswoman Omar, should be able to express their views without employing anti-Semitic tropes about money or influence…

    So Rep. Omar can freely discuss Israel as long as she doesn’t mention icky topics such as “money or influence”?

    Thanks for sharing Senator, and letting us know where you stand. I hope your campaign crashes and burns.

  46. 46
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    @raven: You’re telling me! I used to hunt those fuckers in my youth. A deer rifle is all but useless. I had finally stepped up to a .375 H&H magnum, which would drop them like the hand of God, but when you’re up against hundreds… good luck to you, Hog Chow.

    The other side of the equation is processing. The average hog can go easily 300 – 400 lbs. with some getting into the 500 – 600 range. Ever gut and skin one? For two men it’s a two-three hour job. And then you still have to process the carcass. $$$.

    They’re burning the midnight oil down at A&M trying to figure a solution.

  47. 47
    Brachiator says:

    @geg6: Great story. Very cool that she stayed with the kid to make sure he was OK while waiting for the paramedics, etc.

  48. 48
    Peale says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Yep. My understanding of part of this is that the Eliot Engel is the one who she’s having the biggest problems with. And yeah, there’s probably a little bit of worry that if the party gets labeled as the anti-semitic party, they’ll have a tough time winning Florida.

  49. 49
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @Peale: …While running against Nazi-sympathetic Republicans!

    The media is a right wing propaganda organ – and not just Fox News.

  50. 50
    EthylEster says:

    @Mary G: I’m sorry but Biden is too old and too connected with the last 40 years of Democratic politics. I do NOT want him even in a primary. Things change.

  51. 51
    Martin says:

    Interesting how the presidential candidates are jumping into this. Harris, Sanders, Warren ostensibly backing up Omar, Gillibrand chiding her. Seems the safe move would have been to stay out of this particular shitshow, but they jumped in, and that’s interesting.

  52. 52
    trollhattan says:

    @geg6:
    Nice, that’s awesome! A cool head on that one.

    Did somebody rescue the nugget?

  53. 53
    debit says:

    I hope everyone can take a moment to contact Rep Omar and leave a message of support. I tried leaving her a voicemail but both her local and DC mailboxes were full. I don’t think you can send an email using the form on her website unless you’re a constituent (I am) I guess you could try? You know she’s being hammered by the howler monkey brigade.

  54. 54
    geg6 says:

    @trollhattan:

    LOL! I think it may have been a little gross, what with all the vomit and such.

  55. 55
    Another Scott says:

    @Mandalay: Marko Worman on PRI’s The World tried to carefully address this issue yesterday (“What constitutes anti-Semitism?”). He interviewed American Rabbi Susan Silverman who made some good points, but she was horrible about putting words in Omar’s mouth. When Worman gently called her out on it, she said something like “it’s all part of the same story” and wouldn’t back down from what she said (that Omar didn’t say). It was infuriating.

    But it illustrates how difficult it is to have a conversation separated from all the cultural and historical baggage that we all carry around.

    Here’s hoping that this resolution – if it passes – helps Democrats to at least be able to say – “we addressed it, moving on, let’s talk about what we’re trying to do for the American People…”

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  56. 56
    Wapiti says:

    @Mandalay: I think she’s totally free to mention money and influence as long as she avoids anti-Semitic tropes.

  57. 57
    tarragon says:

    @trollhattan:

    Did somebody rescue the nugget?

    Oh ew… Not helping.

    Edited to add: I used to be a member in good standing of alt.tasteless . How age changes things.

  58. 58
    Sab says:

    @Another Scott: I heard that interview. I was screaming at the radio in my car the whole way home.

  59. 59
    Another Scott says:

    @debit: Her campaign website is still up (with a donation link) – https://www.ilhanomar.com/ – also too.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60
  61. 61
    Brachiator says:

    @geg6:

    Caitlin is just a tiny little thing, maybe 5’1″ and 100 pounds. And there she was, shoving a football lineman out of the way to, basically, pick up a basketball player and bounce him around until the nugget came out.

    I think it’s more about applying pressure correctly than using brute strength. People’s ribs have been broken from incorrectly applied Heimlich squeezes.

    @trollhattan:

    Did somebody rescue the nugget?

    I recall reading about a guy coughing up a chunk of an expensive steak when a rescuer applied the Heimlich. I wondered whether the guy went on to eat it again.

  62. 62
    tobie says:

    A friend sent me this from Tablet, which was interesting as a data point:

    FROM TABLET MAGAZINE: In 2018, total pro-Israel lobbying spending was around $5 million , of which AIPAC accounted for $3.5 million . In contrast, Native American casinos spent around $22 million that year . By Tablet’s count, AIPAC was the 147th highest-ranked entity in terms of lobbying spending in 2018. Their expenditures were about the same as International Paper , a company which is seldom tweet-stormed or even written about. The American Association of Airport Executives and Association of American Railroads outspent AIPAC by nearly a million dollars each— sensible, given the rivalry between the respective modes of transportation whose interests they represent. It’s $2 million behind both American Airlines and the Recording Industry Association of America , entities whose malign influence has gone regrettably underexamined over the years.

    The resolution is both silly and damaging at the same time, but I’m wary of pinning the blame on AIPAC if the stats in this article are true. AIPAC’s to the left what George Soros is to the right. The alarmist in me notes that the bogeymen of the left and the right are both Jewish.

  63. 63
  64. 64
    Mandalay says:

    @Wapiti:

    I think she’s totally free to mention money and influence as long as she avoids anti-Semitic tropes.

    This is what Rep. Omar said:

    “I want to talk about the political influence in this country that says it is OK for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country.”

    Folks here have no problem demanding to see Trump’s tax returns, and insisting that he has a loyalty to Russia. Fine. Let’s see how many of the donors and Democrats in Congress who are outraged by Omar’s remarks have Israeli citizenship.

    I’ll have more sympathy with Democrats in Congress going after Omar if they draft a bill requiring members of Congress to disclose whether they are a citizen of any country other than the USA. Right now we have no idea.

  65. 65
    R-Jud says:

    @geg6: Wow. Sounds like that will be the first of many lives she saves. Go Caitlin!

  66. 66
    trollhattan says:

    O/T Opening graf of An Art-Historical Analysis of Cersei Lannister Sipping Wine

    Numbed by the spectacle, we tremble at the sight of an army of mindless zombies, as relentless as they are soulless, marching to extinguish whatever humane life might be left in the world; they act at the order of their ice king, a cold-eyed nihilist who knows neither compassion nor normal feeling. Then we turn away from the congressional Republicans defending Donald Trump, to find some relief watching the new trailer for the final season of “Game of Thrones.”

    Reminiscent of a certain “Atlas Shrugged”-“Lord of the Rings” comparo but anyway, a fun read.

  67. 67
    tobie says:

    @Mandalay: And this is what she tweeted:

    I am told everyday that I am anti-American if I am not pro-Israel.

    and this

    Our democracy is built on debate, Congresswoman! I should not be expected to have allegiance/pledge support to a foreign country in order to serve my country in Congress or serve on committee.

    Tweet number two traffics overtly in anti-Semitic tropes. I’m really stunned that so many of you find this not just acceptable but laudable and worthy of campaign donations.

    It would have been fine for Omar to talk about what is wrong with our foreign policy. But she went the conspiracy route and talked instead about the nefarious Jewish influence on US policy. That’s been the problem all along. We treated Japanese-Americans during WWII as having divided loyalties and we wouldn’t accept that rhetoric today. Why are we not in the least disturbed when the same argument is made regarding American Jews?

  68. 68
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Mandalay: The problem (as has been noted by more than a few people) is that “allegiance to a foreign country” is specifically an older anti-semitic trope.

    Complaining about why you can’t say this when we can say similar things about Trump being loyal to Russia is a lot like listening to Rush Limbaugh complain he’s not being racist when he calls out a black person as “articulate”, but you can refer to a white dude as “articulate” without additional baggage.

  69. 69
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @tobie:

    It would have been fine for Omar to talk about what is wrong with our foreign policy. But she went the conspiracy route and talked instead about the nefarious Jewish influence on US policy. That’s been the problem all along. We treated the Japanese during WWII as having divided loyalties and we wouldn’t accept that rhetoric today. Why are we not in the least disturbed when the same argument is made regarding American Jews?

    It’s pretty clear that Omar meant to talk about what’s wrong with our foreign policy but phrased it problematically. She thinks that she’s being told she HAS to be deferent to Israel as a member of Congress. Which is kind of true, but talking about “allegiance” is what made it an unacceptable comment.

  70. 70
  71. 71
    jl says:

    They’re still going through with this charade? It is a charade, since far worse GOP bigotry slid by with nothing. And Dems explicitly chickened out of a resolution on Steve King. McCarthy was dong far worse anti-Semitic attacks on Soros, and after Soros was targeted by attempted terror bombing.

    Any mention of conflation of right wing Israeli politics, Israel itself, and worldwide (or US) Jewish community for cynical political purposes?

  72. 72
    Peale says:

    @tobie: @tobie: AIPAC is the bugbear ON this issue. Plus Sheldon Adelson. Sheldon Adelson is a specific donor to Republicans who gave over $100 million and he’s not giving that over because he wants casinos protected or hates environmental regulations. Even at that, Adelson only comes up in terms of this issue and isn’t like Soros who gets linked to every liberal cause on the right. Ten years ago, it was the Koch brothers, Pete Peterson and Eli Broad, none of whom were involved in pro-Israel policies per se..

  73. 73
    Brachiator says:

    Funny how Trump and Putin seem to reinforce one another.

    Russia laws ban ‘disrespect’ of government and ‘fake news’

    Russia’s parliament has passed two bills outlawing “disrespect” of authorities and the spreading of what the government deems to be “fake news”.

    The first ban refers to “blatant disrespect” of the state, its officials and Russian society, and repeat offenders face up to 15 days in jail.

    The second bill prohibits sharing “false information of public interest, shared under the guise of fake news,” the TASS state news agency reported.

    Both new crimes carry heavy fines.

  74. 74
    tobie says:

    @MisterForkbeard: She’s an adult. She’s responsible for what she posts on twitter just like anyone else. In fact she’s held to a higher standard because she’s a member of Congress. She could have walked this back and explained that she was responding to the restrictions imposed on free speech regarding BDS. Or highlighted the evils of the settlements and the Gaza blockade. All that would be welcome. But for many Jews, the single-minded focus on a Jewish cabal controlling US foreign policy sounds like a revival of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

  75. 75
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @MisterForkbeard: This. What she’s complaining about, IMHO rightly, is that all members of Congress are expected to toe the line of supporting Israel no matter what they do. The people being compelled to display “allegiance” are _Congressional Representatives_, not Jews. That’s not even an antisemitic “trope”! The only reason why this is even coming up is that she earlier attached blame to lobbyists’ money, which was similarly twisted into something like “Jewish money” instead. I find the whole thing to be both bizarre and to confirm her very complaint. It strikes me as a genuine case of “political correctness” run amok. It’d be like if someone had said that Kim Jong Un had outsmarted Trump and then got pilloried for using “orientalist tropes.”

  76. 76
    LivinginExile says:

    I called Ilhan Omars office in Washington today to say I didn’t think she had said anything out of line. I told the guy I talked to about a gop rep from the district that I live in that was kneecapped by aipac. His name is Paul Findley, and he wrote a book “They dared to speak out”. He dared to suggest that Palestinians are people too. A senator from Illinois, Charles Percy, also pissed off aipac and they recruited Paul Simon to run against Percy. They helped fill Simons’ war chest. Percy lost. Neither of these politicians were nut job Israel haters, all they did was advocate for a more even-handed approach.

  77. 77
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Which is kind of true

    Where “kind of” means “completely.” Please name a member of Congress who has been publicly critical of Israeli government policy or of the US’ support of Israel without being called an anti-Semite. I’m coming up blank, but this isn’t an issue I follow as closely as others.

  78. 78
    tobie says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Who tells her this:

    I am told everyday that I am anti-American if I am not pro-Israel.

    These are her words. And the implication is that she’s told this because someone or some groups have the entire Democratic caucus under their thumbs. This is classic anti-Semitism. Wink, wink, there’s a cabal of Jews running everything. Glad to know so many of you are a-okay with this. It’s been illuminating.

  79. 79
    West of the Rockies says:

    @geg6:

    So awesome! You must be crazy proud.

  80. 80
    Mandalay says:

    @tobie:

    I’m really stunned that so many of you find this not just acceptable but laudable

    Well in a similar vein, given all that has been said since Trump became president, I’m just stunned that the leadership of the Democratic Party chose to single out a black Muslim woman who is a Democrat in Congress.

    Why are we not in the least disturbed when the same argument is made regarding American Jews?

    Without remotely justifying the treatment of Japanese Americans during WW II, you are comparing apples with oranges. We were at war with Japan, but Israel is a very cozy ally.

    What wording can you suggest that would be better for Omar to use? (If you think she is not entitled to even raise the issue – as some have suggested – then we have nothing to discuss.)

  81. 81
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Mandalay:

    She does throw her teammates into the oncoming zombie horde.

  82. 82
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @tobie:

    And the implication is that she’s told this because someone or some groups have the entire Democratic caucus under their thumbs.

    That’s certainly “a” implication, but also very much not the one I took from it.

    EDIT: To be clear, the implication is that someone told her that she had to support Israel and its policies. It does not say the “entire” democratic caucus says this, and she doesn’t say Jews are behind it either. She’s literally just saying that there are people in this country that say support of Israel is a core american value.

    Don’t impute meaning which isn’t necessarily there.

  83. 83
    Brachiator says:

    @tobie:

    It would have been fine for Omar to talk about what is wrong with our foreign policy. But she went the conspiracy route and talked instead about the nefarious Jewish influence on US policy.

    You really have to huff and puff and strain to read it this way.

    That’s been the problem all along. We treated Japanese-Americans during WWII as having divided loyalties and we wouldn’t accept that rhetoric today. Why are we not in the least disturbed when the same argument is made regarding American Jews?

    Bullshit. Japanese Americans were falsely accused of being loyal to Japan, period. Not divided loyalties. It was presumed that because they were not white, they could not be loyal to America. And this conclusion was reached without anyone ever producing any evidence that any Japanese American had spoken of dual or divided loyalties. German Americans were not automatically suspected of being disloyal to the US.

    On the other hand, white racists suppressed Jewish Americans’ concerns about the awful rise of anti-Jewish laws and actions in Germany by holding the lie of dual loyalties and “cosmopolitanism” over their heads.

    The concern and controversy about Omar is largely bullshit, and people are still exaggerating, twisting her words, and making false historical analogies to keep the shit flowing.

  84. 84
    Betty Cracker says:

    @trollhattan:

    My own wife, sipping at her Oregon pinot noir, strikes a precise replica of the Cersei smile as she bangs out e-mail remonstrances to her colleagues. For a nearby observer, it can be extremely scary to see.

    LMAO!

  85. 85
    Mandalay says:

    @MisterForkbeard: OK, got it. Thanks.

    But it seems to me that no matter what Omar says she’s going to be accused of being anti-Semitic. In general, as soon as someone challenges any aspect of the US-Israel relationship it appears to automatically hair trigger the accusation of anti-semitism.

    Omar was also very critical of the US-Saudi Arabia relationship recently, and nobody said a thing.

  86. 86
    tobie says:

    @Mandalay: You obviously have not read what I posted so I’ll paste it here:

    She could have walked this back and explained that she was responding to the restrictions imposed on free speech regarding BDS. Or highlighted the evils of the settlements and the Gaza blockade. All that would be welcome.

    or

    It would have been fine for Omar to talk about what is wrong with our foreign policy. But she went the conspiracy route and talked instead about the nefarious Jewish influence on US policy.

    There are plenty of ways to make the case that the US should not support Israel in the way it does. But to start by saying that we are not allowed to discuss any of this because of a secret cabal dictating US foreign policy is trafficking in stereotypes with a long–and murderous–track record.

  87. 87
    eemom says:

    @tobie:

    Tweet number two traffics overtly in anti-Semitic tropes. I’m really stunned that so many of you find this not just acceptable but laudable and worthy of campaign donations.

    Speaking of zombie hordes, good luck trying to reason with this crowd.

    Please know the effort is admirable and appreciated by your fellow dwellers in three dimensional reality.

  88. 88
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Brachiator:

    German Americans were not automatically suspected of being disloyal to the US.

    Not directly on-point, but during WWI, people incorrectly assumed to be “German” were suspected of being disloyal to Canada and were “interned” in camps in Alberta. The kicker is they were not actually German.

  89. 89
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Mandalay: Oh, sure. I agree with you there. Israel has a hugely outsized influence on our foreign policy, given their relatively paltry lobbyist dollars and their current record of human rights offenses. And criticism of Israel is frequently conflated with anti-semitism.

    The thing is, you CAN be critical of Israel if you’re careful about it. Obama did this a few times, basically telling Netanyahu he was full of shit. And the right yelled about it but the media basically left it alone because he chose his words with care.

    I like Omar. I hope she takes this as a learning experience on how to approach the subject, because she’s got a lot to contribute there.

    @eemom: Get off your high horse. There are literally people here having decent conversations about this RIGHT NOW, as well as people yelling about it.

    @tobie:

    But to start by saying that we are not allowed to discuss any of this because of a secret cabal dictating US foreign policy is trafficking in stereotypes with a long–and murderous–track record.

    If she had said this, you might have a point. And this is from someone who thinks she definitely fucked up her statement. But you’re adding a huge amount of meaning that isn’t there.

  90. 90
    guachi says:

    I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again:

    You can’t criticize Israel or you get accused of being anti-Semitic.

    Look at Gillibrand’s awful statement. You can’t talk about Israel’s influence on American politics because taking about Jews influencing anyone is off limits.

    It’s a joke of an argument and people who make that argument are jokes.

  91. 91
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @tobie:

    There are plenty of ways to make the case that the US should not support Israel in the way it does.

    Genuinely curious: who has done that effectively in Congress in the last couple of decades?

  92. 92
    eemom says:

    @Mandalay: @Mandalay:

    But it seems to me that no matter what Omar says she’s going to be accused of being anti-Semitic.

    Ding ding ding! Congrats on being the thousandth person to trot out this ridiculous straw man in the last three days.

    Even if it’s true, how exactly does it justify saying something that IS overtly anti-Semitic?

  93. 93
    MisterForkbeard says:

    Bleah, I can see why Republicans seized on this as a wedge issue. Here we are all arguing about it, and I think most of us even agree that the U.S. is too deferential to Israel in its foreign policy.

    We’re just arguing about language and whether or not what she said was intentionally anti-semitic or could just have conceivably been construed as an anti-semitic trope. We aren’t enemies here. >_<

  94. 94
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tobie: I think Omar inadvertently tripped up by using the word “allegiance” — even though she was referring to lawmakers rather than Jewish people. It’s a super loaded word because of the history of Jews being “otherized” all over the world; I get that. I don’t understand the problem with the sentence below that you seem to find self-evidently offensive:

    I am told everyday that I am anti-American if I am not pro-Israel.

    It doesn’t strain credulity at all to believe she gets butt-loads of hate mail that says just that. I don’t think she’s invoking a shadowy cabal that controls everything. What am I missing?

  95. 95
    Brickley Paiste says:

    “I do not believe that she understood the full weight of the words,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says about Rep. Ilhan Omar’s controversial comments on Israel.

    It’s time for Nancy Smash to lower the boom on this asshole.

    What are we on, day 5 or 6 of this being a story? Apparently the first private chat with Omar did not get the message across so Pelosi need to do whatever is necessary to make this ignorant twit understand the news cycle.

  96. 96
    tobie says:

    @Brachiator: No huffing and puffing. Her tweets were all about restrictions on her speech (irony noted). She could have made an affirmative case for restricting aid or sale of various weaponry systems to Israel. That would have moved minds. It’s something I would have welcomed and I imagine she would have been able to get set several colleagues to back her on this. I’m sorry she didn’t go this route.

  97. 97
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Mandalay: Gillibrand being Gillibrand, I’m sure she weighed both sides carefully, and chose the path that served her ambition best.

  98. 98
    eemom says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    who has done that effectively in Congress in the last couple of decades?

    Further brilliance.

    Again, even if that’s true, what Omar has done is the opposite of making that case effectively.

    Rant on all you want with your facile, beside the point bullshit to the effect that “oh, ANYBODY who criticizes Israel is gonna be called anti-Semitic.” How does parroting dog whistles that indisputably ARE anti-Semitic help the cause of rational debate about Israel? Seems to me it’s playing right the fuck into the hands of those who want to suppress that discussion.

    And if I hear “oh, she didn’t UNDERSTAND it was anti-Semitic” one more time, I am seriously gonna puke.

  99. 99
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @tobie: “This implication that I impute to her words after paraphrasing them makes them super antisemitic,” then? What is this, the commutative property of antisemitism? This is partly why calling things “tropes” is so frustrating. Saying that the word “allegiance” in proximity to “Jews” raises certain associations kind of falls apart when someone else has to supply the word “Jews” and then make it proximate.

  100. 100
    raven says:

    @geg6: Adrenaline is a mofo

  101. 101
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    Nancy Pelosi at her weekly press conference today: “I don’t think that the congresswoman perhaps appreciates the full weight of how it was heard by other people, although I don’t believe it was intended in any anti-Semitic way.”

    Money, money, money! MooooooneeeeeeeeY!

  102. 102
    Sab says:

    @eemom: What did she say that was overtly (or not overtly) anti-semitic? Lots of people are saying she did, but when I see the tape I just don’t see it.

  103. 103
    Martin says:

    @tobie:

    Why are we not in the least disturbed when the same argument is made regarding American Jews?

    Is it in reference to American Jews or is it in reference to political campaigning and in self-policing that happens inside of the caucus? In a sense, you’re hitting on the point yourself:

    I’m really stunned that so many of you find this not just acceptable but laudable and worthy of campaign donations.

    How much pressure is on Democratic members of Congress to toe the line in order to get campaign contributions? We know it exists for the GOP (often not coming from the Jewish community at all, but from the evangelical community), and we criticize them over that, but to what extent does that happen inside the Democratic party as well? There’s been plenty of criticism here and elsewhere in the Democratic party of Schumer over his lack of criticism for Israels actions. His appearances at AIPAC aren’t exactly speaking truth to power, either.

    Omar is saying nothing about domestic policies related to American Jews, and at every turn she seems to be supportive of domestic policies that the Jewish community supports. That said, even Democrats seem to invent a different set of rules when it comes to foreign policy with respect to Israel and it does not seem that anyone can sustain a critical voice on Israels policies within Congress in much the same way nobody could question the US policy toward Cuba for so many years, or a Republican questioning the NRA. It’s an odd thing. It doesn’t match the usual patterns of debate within our politics which suggests that there’s an undercurrent of control that we don’t understand. That could be from within the caucus or it could be how campaign dollars flow, or what have you – essentially dynamics that we are not supposed to see.

    Read her quote again:

    I should not be expected to have allegiance/pledge support to a foreign country in order to serve my country in Congress or serve on committee.

    She is not accusing you or anyone else of having a dual allegiance. She is asserting that others (unnamed) are demanding that members of congress have one. That is not a new dynamic. That is one we have seen for some time. In the case of the GOP, we can see instances where that dynamic is the result of perhaps two individuals – Adelsons, or Kochs. And Israel need not be the beneficiary. For the Kochs it’s the energy industry. For the NRA the gun manufacturers. It was tobacco a few decades ago. It’s coal if you’re from certain states. I suspect the critique here is not of a population of people but how excessive influence of money in politics distorts policy to appear that way. You should be angry about that. Is Sheldon Adelson representative of American Jews, because the sheer scale of his campaign contributions puts his personal wants on the same level as the entire rest of the Jewish community, yet Republicans speak as if they are representing the entirety of the Jewish community because they cannot possibly say that their policies are to appease Sheldon. One person has co-opted the entire community against their will. I have a hard time believing the same thing doesn’t happen in other areas. Yes, Democrats may be better insulated from it, but I don’t think they are immune by any means.

  104. 104
    tobie says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Betty McCollum has done it, and I would venture that the Progressive Caucus might have gone along with (a) questions about the constitutionality of the BDS resolution, (b) motions to block the sale of certain jet fighters to Israel used in bombing Gaza, (c) resolutions (plural) condemning settlement expansions, and (d) a resolution condemning moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Congress has changed. We’re in a position where we can now question certain policies. My point has been throughout all this that we’re spending all this time talking about the American Jewish community and its influence rather than on our actual foreign policy in the Middle East in general and Israel and Palestine in particular.

  105. 105
    Gin &amp; Tonic says:

    @eemom: You could have just answered my question, I suppose.

    ETA: As tobie actually did, for which I thank him/her.

    And I’ll note that editing my comment will screw up my nym. Oh well.

  106. 106
    FlipYrWhig says:

    This probably isn’t going to help but IMHO The Real Reason why Israel is treated with kid gloves is that a lot of liberal American Jews want it that way, and Democrats in the DC-to-Boston corridor and Florida like to keep them happy and voting for Democrats. Is that an antisemitic “trope” too?

    (In case it matters, my mother’s side of the family is secular Jews in the classic DC/NY/FL nexus.)

  107. 107
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Betty Cracker: This.

    @Brickley Paiste: Also this. Regardless of the merits of her arguments Omar ran facefirst into a bad PR wall and could have closed this up relatively neatly a few days ago. Criticizing Israel is frankly a minefield in this country, and some of that is for good reason. It requires care when speaking about its influence.

  108. 108
    eemom says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Omar inadvertently tripped up by using the word “allegiance”

    Betty, I think you’re an awesome writer and I have great respect for you, unlike these other clowns.

    Please tell me where in God’s name you get the idea that she parroted not one, but at least three well known Jew-bashing slurs “inadvertently”. And that last one, AFTER people had explained this shit to her out the wazoo at least twice before and she apologized for it.

  109. 109
    tobie says:

    @eemom: Can I come sit next to you? It’s getting lonely on this blog.

    More seriously, folks, I’ve got to go to dinner with mr. tobie to celebrate my birthday and then it’s off to a weekend conference. Have a good weekend.

  110. 110
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Criticizing Israel is frankly a minefield in this country […] It requires care when speaking about its influence.

    Say, maybe it would help if a politician would raise this as an issue! ;) :/

  111. 111
    sharl says:

    My prediction is that a fair number of Republicans will vote against it because it doesn’t defend the real victims: white Evangelical Christians.

    Louie’s coming through for you! He’s quite reliable in matters like this.

    Rep. Louie Gohmert declares he's voting against today's resolution. Anti-Semitism, he says, is "a very special kind of hatred that should never be watered down.” Reminder: Gohmert has falsely claimed George Soros helped take property from fellow Jews: https://t.co/hhN6UMxaob— Felicia Sonmez (@feliciasonmez) March 7, 2019

    A reporter in Texas who works the state politics beat asks for understanding:

    please don’t be mean to Louie Gohmert. he’s never met a Jewish person that wasn’t Netanyahu or a born-again minister blowing a shofar— chris hooks (@cd_hooks) March 7, 2019

  112. 112
    eemom says:

    @tobie:

    I wouldn’t have piped up at all if it weren’t for you. That’s how sick I am of this ignorant bullshit.

    Happy Birthday, and have a wonderful dinner!

  113. 113
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    @eemom: Its because she’s an immigrant, and unaware of the tropes. Also she’s being bashed daily just because she’s not a House Muslim that is ashamed/defensive about her heritage. The people who are telling her that aren’t Jews (mostly) but right wingers offended that she’s there, regardless of what she says. If she says nothing, they accuse her of being a secret supporter of Sharia who’s hiding her opinions. And no matter what she says, she can’t win.

  114. 114
    Mandalay says:

    @eemom: Jesus Christ, you are so fucking needy. You have to make this thread all about you.

  115. 115
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @eemom:

    What were the other two? I haven’t followed this that closely.

    Pelosi knows how to use words. Her statement translates as “The stupid asshole is ignorant of American history and the sordid history of the dual allegiance slur but in her heart of heart she’s not anti-semitic” does sort of strain credulity. I mean, how does a member of congress decide to wade into the well-plowed ground of Israel’s oversize influence on American politics and just happen to use one of the most charged terms? What a co-inky-dink!

    It is kind of interesting to read people who generally worship Pelosi take issue with her about this.

  116. 116
    chopper says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    i dunno. i’ve talked to a number of fellow jews about this and we’re all “(shrug) i dunno, it could go either way” about it. her statement was definitely not enough to raise much ire. which is why there’s a good deal of side-eye regarding the reaction out of so many others who have decided to take on the mantle of ‘defender of the jewish people’ in this situation.

  117. 117
    Sab says:

    Jeffrey Goldberg, editor of the Atlantic Magazine, actually served in the Israeli Defense Forces. That’s a fact . That is also mixed allegience.

    David Brooks son served in the IDF. That’s a fact . That’s also mixed allegiance for the kid, and problematic for the father.

    Who else in American journalism or government served or had kids serve in foreign governments armies and didn’t meet shrieks of divided loyalties? What makes Israel so special? I can’t think of serving in another countries military that wouldn’t endanger your American citizenship.

    That was posibly OK when Israel was a dependable ally, but it has been at least a decade since that was the case. Netanyahu’s government is corrupt to the core, riddled with Russian organized crime. This isn’t the spunky Israel of the 3 day war.

  118. 118
    gene108 says:

    @Wapiti:

    I think she’s totally free to mention money and influence as long as she avoids anti-Semitic tropes.

    Nope. No questioning Israel on anything. Period.

    Any question raised will be deemed equal to Hitler’s statements on Jews.

    Both Israel and the U.S. have lost the plot, in the 21st century, with regards to a fair and lasting peace between Israel and Palestine. There was some hope in the 1990’s, after the Oslo Accords, but enthusiasm waned after Rabin’s assassination for more bold actions to finally bring a lasting peace.

    And now the Likud Party has tentacles into the evangelical / Republican circles, and some Democrats, like Vargas.

    Shumer’s different, in my opinion, because there are some folks, who are – no matter what the Israel lobby does, with regards to lobbying and fundraising – think Israel should be protected first and foremost. And I think that’s just Shumer’s natural default position on Israel.

    tl;dr: Questioning Israel, in anyway, will not be accepted.

  119. 119
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @FlipYrWhig: when you say, “treated with kid gloves”, are you being specific about Dems? Because I think (how do you measure these things?) the Fundies are probably far more influential wrt Israel with Republicans. Our Secretary of State speaks positively about the rapture, and if I have a hard time imagining George W Bush saying things like Pompeo does, especially when other members of his family are around, I’m sure he listens eagerly when the sort of Bible bangers he likes bring it up. I suspect in at least this regard, Bibi and Sheldon Adelson and the Mikes Pompeo and Huckabee regard each other as useful idiots, with contemptuous if affectionate amusement on both sides.

    and I don’t think we’d be here, I don’t think what she said about “allegiance” — and she was clearly talking about AIPAC, not all Jews, not all American Jews– would be perceived as such a dog-whistle is she hadn’t felt compelled to make a glib, hip ‘owning’ tweet about “the Benjamins”. There’s a place for being cute and glib and owning your adversaries on twitter, I/P isn’t it. Which brings me back to my new 2020 candidate, Jan Schakowsky: Everybody stop tweeting.

  120. 120
    catclub says:

    John Demers, the head of the Justice Department’s National Security Division, told an audience of white collar litigators in New Orleans on Wednesday that the Justice Department would switch “from treating FARA as an administrative obligation and regulatory obligation to one that is increasingly an enforcement priority.”

    Why is this interesting? It is about going after Foreign agent registration (or ignoring thereof). which is fine.
    But the meeting was in New Orleans the day after MardiGras. Either they took advantage of everyone leaving and lower hotel/convention rates.
    OR they made sure to get to New Orleans for mardigras but do it on business. I usually fly into a new city the day before my meeting. Maybe they are more experienced road warriors.

  121. 121
    Brachiator says:

    @eemom:

    And if I hear “oh, she didn’t UNDERSTAND it was anti-Semitic” one more time, I am seriously gonna puke.

    I totally agree. But then again, I have no patience for all the people who felt that they needed to correct her, chastise her, and explain history to her over something relatively trivial and totally unintentional. Especially when we have outright bigots openly spouting racist and white nationalist bullshit.

  122. 122
    Martin says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I think it’s more complicated than that. There are definitely times when it feels more like compensation for our support for Saudi Arabia. How can we not help Israels defense given the volume of money we dump into a nation that funds attacks against them. We don’t dare criticize Israels actions because we can’t bring ourselves to stand up to Saudi Arabia. None of that comes from either the Jewish or Evangelical community – it comes from our own political weakness. And, if Obama wanted to bring Iran back into the fold, then Israel deserves support to ensure that they aren’t the victims should that go wrong.

    There are a ton of non-religious, typical geopolitical reasons for much of what we do wrt Israel. We do the same with South Korea and parts of Eastern Europe, and other places. Of course there are groups that are sympathetic to other aspects of Israels existence, from religious to protection of the Jewish populace, but that’s true for any community. I have neighbors that still despise the Democratic party because Carter supported the One China policy and they saw that as an existential threat to their relatives in Taiwan. I don’t see that they have any more or less right to lobby on behalf of Taiwan as any other group.

    But what’s odd about Israel is that for whatever reason (and I don’t pretend to know why) it’s unacceptable within Congress to have a critical view toward Israeli policy – even for really obvious things that you would expect one party or the other to be opposed to – that isn’t paralleled for any other country right now. There is some other dynamic at work here that we don’t understand. Maybe there is some secret national security information that explains why this is, or maybe there is a dynamic similar to the GOP where this is simply not allowed. I don’t know.

    But I find it odd that people think that an openly Muslim US Representative that wears a hijab wouldn’t understand the accusation of dual loyalty, particularly the same week that the WV GOP is accusing her of being supportive of the 9/11 plot. The Jewish community is far from exclusive to that slur. FFS, half the country was afraid that Kennedy’s loyalty would be to the Pope, something that had to be addressed during the campaign. I think her use of that phrase was much more precise than the people accusing her.

  123. 123
    chopper says:

    to me the evangelical/israel thing is always going to be one of the greatest ironies in american politics.

    that these guys will so quickly accuse critics of israel of anti-semitism, while their own dogma envisions an end times fantasy where the jews are literally horribly and painfully wiped off the face of the earth, will always amaze me. that they continue to get away with this out in the open is even crazier.

  124. 124
    Adam Geffen says:

    @Mandalay:

    I’m thinking out loud here so bear with me… what about if Omar had criticized Likud and/or Netanyahu directly for their hard-right wing policies? E.g.: In accord with our founding principles of freedom and democracy the United States should stand in opposition to the policies of the Likud party and Netanyahu. We should support . Etc. Etc.

    Now, ~some~ amount of the outrage has certainly been disingenuous. Which probably means even if she had managed to avoid antisemitic tropes in a critique of Likud policy she would have been attacked anyway. But maybe it wouldn’t have caused as much an issue for the left. Maybe?

    The notion has been bandied about that AIPAC has too much influence, for some definition of influence. I’ve been thinking about that and I wonder if I can get some help thinking through some stuff? I’m led to wonder how much influence would be OK for AIPAC to have? Or how much influence should Jews generally have? Or what about other groups, how much influence should LGBT people have?

    For the record, I’m queer and Jewish. Personally, I think LGBT people and Jews and Queer Jews should have as much influence as possible. ;) Is influence even the right lens to use in thinking about this? Why haven’t leftist Jewish groups (like J Street) been more successful in shifting the frame of the discussion about Likud-Israel?

  125. 125
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @catclub: I used to go to NoLa pretty often on business, and if there’s one time of year I absolutely positively avoided it was Mardi Gras.

  126. 126
    Ohio Mom says:

    @tobie: I just got here (you have probably already left to celebrate your birthday). I hear you and completely agree with you.

    And I am a Jew who usually rolls her eyes when my coreligionists cry “antisemitism,” because typically they are missing the point — for one small example, Louis Farrakhan. He’s pathetic and not worth a moment’s thought.

    I also fret that the American Jewish establishment spends too much time on Israel and not enough time on developing a meaningful contemporary observance and building real community.

    The irony of this entire discussion is that a major force pushing for US support for Israel are those absolutely awful white evangelicals. Everyone here probably already knows that these right-wingers think they need all Jews in Israel so the world can end and they can be raptured. I haven’t heard that Omar called them out, however.

  127. 127
    catclub says:

    @Sab:

    That was possibly OK when Israel was a dependable ally, but it has been at least a decade since that was the case. Netanyahu’s government is corrupt to the core,

    1. was Israel a reliable ally in 1967 when they tried to sink the USS Liberty?
    2.Ilhan did not object to variable allegiances of others. She objected to being expected to have allegiance to Israel.
    3. Our Anti-espionage briefings bring up both Chinese as well as Israeli heavy handed attempts to steal NASA secrets.
    Not so much UK, Germany, or France. Allies, what a concept.

  128. 128
    zhena gogolia says:

    new thread please

  129. 129
    guachi says:

    Politicians who accept money from Israeli lobbying groups need to be slammed for being anti-Semitic.

    If you accept money from them then you are perpetuating stereotypes about Jews and money.

  130. 130
    Adam Geffen says:

    The speed with which people comment here is hard to keep up with. *wince* In the time I managed to cobble together a comment there were like 40 more comments some of which touch on similar points to mine.

  131. 131
    Martin says:

    @Adam Geffen: Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing went away long ago. John Cole Challenges You To Get A Word In Edgewise is where it’s at now.

  132. 132
    eemom says:

    @Mandalay:

    That’s the best you’ve got? Um, ok.

  133. 133
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam Geffen: It takes a laser-like focus and single-minded dedication to be a commenter.

  134. 134
    catclub says:

    @zhena gogolia: not even half way to a Tbogg. But still tiresome.

  135. 135
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Ohio Mom: Thanks for this. Paul Waldman in WaPo has a couple of columns in a similar vein.

    Also, I become more convinced daily that BrickleyPaiste is BorisInPutinland.

  136. 136
    catclub says:

    @Martin:

    And, if Obama wanted to bring Iran back into the fold, then Israel deserves support to ensure that they aren’t the victims should that go wrong.

    so please note that Obama did make massive increases in … support to Israel. Not by accident.

  137. 137
    chopper says:

    @catclub:

    Ilhan did not object to variable allegiances of others. She objected to being expected to have allegiance to Israel.

    this is true. she basically said ‘why is it that i, as a member of the US congress, am expected to have allegiance to israel?’ i see absolutely nothing wrong with that statement, even if it uses the magic word ‘allegiance’, given that there’s really not a better word she could have used IMO. it’s a loaded word to be sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s so loaded you can’t use it in any other context.

  138. 138
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Right, I guess I meant among Democrats — liberal pro-Israel Jews have been a prominent interest group for three quarters of a century.

    I think you’re right that the sketchy part is saying, or hinting, that American politicians support Israel for the money; I think on the center-left it’s probably more about votes than money. IMHO it was still a quip about powerful moneyed lobbies rather than powerful moneyed Jews, and I really truly don’t think this second brouhaha had anything to do with antisemitism or “antisemitic tropes” at all.

    Also, I hate the word “tropes.”

  139. 139
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @eemom: If you looking for offense, it is easy to find.

  140. 140
    Lewis Abernathy says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I used to go to NoLa pretty often on business, and if there’s one time of year I absolutely positively avoided it was Mardi Gras.

    Jazz Fest is cooler.

  141. 141
    Brachiator says:

    @trollhattan:

    O/T Opening graf of An Art-Historical Analysis of Cersei Lannister Sipping Wine

    Great stuff. There are people doing a frame by frame analysis of the GoT trailer, trying to divine the intentions behind Cersei sipping her wine.

  142. 142
    eemom says:

    @Adam Geffen:

    Thanks again for sharing the link to Ellen Willis’ 2003 essay the other night; and more generally, making me aware of her unique, brilliant, tragically lost life and work. I wish she were more widely known.

  143. 143
    Dave says:

    @chopper: The fact that we barely blink an eye that we have a faction that has an end times fantasy that involves the death and torture of everyone who isn’t in that faction, and that faction has significant influence in our foreign and domestic policy, is itself sufficiently bonkers to make me want to drink heavily.

  144. 144
  145. 145
    Mike in DC says:

    Omar voted for the resolution. 26 Republican congressmen did not.

  146. 146
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Adam Geffen: Wait until some TBOGG event occurs. Things slow down, and the comments pile up. This is a minor spat.

  147. 147
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Mike in DC:

    Omar voted for the resolution. 26 Republican congressmen did not.

    Eyes on our real enemies, please.

  148. 148
    Sab says:

    @catclub: I agree with you. I was trying to put a good spin on it. Of course I remember the Liberty. They were otherwise a good ally at the time.

    I didn’t hear her objecting to various allegiances. I heard her objecting to foreign allegiances. She gave up her native born country to become American. She is a natruralized citizen. I bet she feels these loyalties (that she actually has sworn to, repeatedly) a lot more than we American born citizens.

    We deal with lots of other countries. That doesn’t mean I want our kids serving in their armies and coming home professing to be patriots.

    I have Asian American nephews. They always knew they would have to choose a country. That’s life.

  149. 149
    tybee says:

    @eemom: i note you don’t answer any of the questions raised. why is that?

  150. 150
    debbie says:

    @Sab:

    Goddamn it. Another email will have to be sent.

  151. 151
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Dave: Right there with you on that one. >_<

  152. 152
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    somebody smart on my TeeVee is gonna ask why there was no congressional resolution about Birtherism, right?

    Rep. Don Beyer @ RepDonBeyer
    In early 2009 House Republicans reacted to the election of the man I worked for and served under, President Barack Obama, with birther legislation.

    The all-GOP cosponsor list included committee chairs, Appropriations cardinals, and a future US Senator.

    Without looking, I guessed who the then-MoC now Senator is… Can you?

  153. 153
    Adam Geffen says:

    @eemom:

    Re Ellen Willis, you are welcome. :)

  154. 154
    debbie says:

    @BC in Illinois:

    Whereas accusing Jews of being more loyal to Israel or to the
    Jewish community than to the United States

    Back in the 1980s, Israeli leaders were accusing the American Jewish community of not being sufficiently loyal to Israel, even as they were dismissing American Jews as insufficiently Jewish, biologically speaking.

  155. 155
    eemom says:

    @tybee:

    What question was asked of me that I did not answer?

  156. 156
    Adam Geffen says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    TBOGG?

  157. 157
    debbie says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    Disagree. Steve King should have been named and shamed.

  158. 158
    Sab says:

    @tybee: eemom has never been striking in her intellectual honesty.

    Kay thinks she’s passionate.

    I think she’s deceitful and manipulative. But that’s just me.

  159. 159
    tybee says:

    @eemom: perhaps you should read the comments replying to you.

  160. 160
    chopper says:

    @Adam Geffen:

    five hundo comments.

  161. 161
    Jay says:

    3 days ago, from a Democratic Party Representative,

    Rep. Juan Vargas
    @RepJuanVargas
    It is disturbing that Rep. Omar continues to perpetuate hurtful anti-Semitic stereotypes that misrepresent our Jewish community. Additionally, questioning support for the U.S.-Israel relationship is unacceptable. (1/2)
    10:27 AM · Mar 4, 2019 · Twitter Web Client
    3.5K
    Retweets
    11K
    Likes”

    The last sentence is the kicker.

    And morons were wondering whom perhaps were telling her that regularly.

  162. 162
    Sab says:

    @eemom: Bunch of them, so far. His, mine, other peoples.

  163. 163
    Adam Geffen says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    “Also, I hate the word “tropes.”” ~sad face~ The word infected my brain in graduate school (for history) and I just can’t give it up. I also fell in love with m-dashes. ;)

  164. 164
    rikyrah says:

    @geg6:
    👏👏👏👏👏

  165. 165
    Archon says:

    It’s going to be interesting to see what happens if a left-wing power ever gets back into power in Israel. I suspect current right-wing Evangelical support is more ideological and political then it is religious.

  166. 166
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Adam Geffen: A former commenter of great wit. He writes for rawstory now. A TBOGG unit is 500+ comments.

  167. 167
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    I was yelling at the radio through that entire interview! Her attitude is exactly what’s ripping the Jewish community apart.

  168. 168
    debbie says:

    @trollhattan:

    Colbert opened with a GOT (actually SOT) bit on last night’s show.

  169. 169
    Adam Geffen says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    “A TBOGG unit is 500+ comments.”
    I love that. :-)

    I have a new life aspiration. Never mind getting my master’s thesis accepted for publication, I need my name associated with a large unit of comments. ;-)

  170. 170
    debbie says:

    @geg6:

    The real Captain Marvel!

  171. 171
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Adam Geffen: Be careful what you wish for.
    It’s way tamer than when I arrived in 2005, but it still can get rough. And slow.

  172. 172
    burnspbesq says:

    @eemom:

    If you’re defending Israel, or defending Israel’s American defenders, you’re on the wrong side of the issue. Period, full stop. Disguising it as concern over tone-deafness isn’t working. Neither is pretending that the criticism of Rep. Omar isn’t racist, misogynistic, and Islamophobic.

    Your position is all fucked up. Reconsider.

  173. 173
    debbie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I took her to be comparing AIPAC to NRA, and I don’t disagree. Both lobbies have far too much influence in this country and in our government.

  174. 174
    Adam Geffen says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    I’ve been lurking since about 2011. I have seen how spicy it can get. I’ll try to hold my own. :)

  175. 175
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Adam Geffen: I learned it in grad school too but I didn’t learn it as meaning “commonplaces” and/or “building blocks,” which it has since evolved to mean, as e.g. “TV Tropes.” Feh on that.

  176. 176
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Your position is all fucked up. Reconsider.

    I agree. Wait, what?

  177. 177
    Adam Geffen says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Fair enough. :)

  178. 178
    debbie says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    No, not liberal American Jews. It’s the politically conservative Jewish community and Orthodox Jewish community. Now aided by the Christian Evangelicals.

  179. 179
    Gin & Tonic says:

    I am fucking dying of suspense here waiting for the Manafort sentencing.

  180. 180
    Adam Geffen says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    What did you study? Me: law and history (JD/MA) US and English legal and constitutional history, colonial North America, antebellum African American history especially in Michigan and Detroit.

  181. 181
    Ivan X says:

    I don’t know why I bother to wade in here, but maybe it’s just for me to try to summarize my own complex, conflicting thoughts. I’m a Jewish American, with pretty typical mainstream liberal positions, and I’m pro-Israel-existence but hardly pro everything they do, like behave with cruelty and at this point nihilism to the Palestinians.

    I spent a fair bit of time in an earlier thread from a few days ago arguing with commenters saying what to me were obviously anti-Jewish things, couched as anti-Israel things. I’m not convinced they knew they were blowing dog whistles, just as any racist will surely claim they’re not racist, but they were completely uninterested in knowing that was how was how I received their comments, instead telling me that I was conflating in bad faith.

    I get that some people operate from an absolutist Israel-be-damned position. It alarms me (as does absolutism of the Israel-is-always-right or Israel-is-all-that-matters sort). I think it’s simplistic and unfair, but Israel has not helped their cause. With that said, as one of the reasonable commenters said (I paraphrase), the one constant is that Jews need a homeland. Too bad it’s in that part of the world, but it is what it is. I feel this way, and it’s hard for me to stomach the kind of Israel-is-entirely-evil rhetoric of many on the left. I also agree with what another commenter said that Israel would be no big deal if there was more than one Jewish country. But it’s the only one. So it’s a big deal. At least to me.

    I think conflation exists, and is used in both good faith and bad faith ways. Israel is inherently tied to Jews — look at their flag. It’s a conflation. I don’t think you can pretend to talk about Israel without also acknowledging that you’re talking about Jews. I don’t think you can talk about Jews without also acknowledging the meaning of Israel in their lives.

    I think Jews have good reason to be hypersensitive. When the likes of Steve Bannon or Steven Miller (!) are in positions of influence, you start checking to see what the requirements for being an Israeli citizen are. I don’t think dire times for Jews are coming in this country, but I wouldn’t absolutely rule them out either. I’m always on alert, and I think many other Jews are too.

    Sure, maybe this is holocaust PTSD, and maybe that allows us to rationalize things in Israel that we would damn in other countries. But that doesn’t make it not our real experience, and, in my opinion, a completely unfounded one. Why do synagogues in Europe (and sometimes here) require multiple security guards, metal detectors, and entry points? Exclusively because of Israel? I don’t think it can be denied that some people just don’t like Jews, don’t want Jews around them, and, in some cases, will demonstrate malice towards Jews. Inevitably, these people are anti-Israel.

    So it is hard for me to entirely separate the people and religion from the country. Obviously, one can be critical of Israeli policy and Israeli actions without being anti-Semitic, but I’m always going to be suspcious and listen very carefully to how it’s expressed. Anything that smacks of Jewish conspiracy is a red alert for me. An obsessive focus on Israel without consideration for other democratic countries that treat their minority populations atrociously (France, anyone?) is another.

    I don’t get the concern of of “Democrats beating up their own dark muslim woman while staying silent about the Republican scum saying the same things.” Obviously Republicans say awful racist antisemitic things all the time. We just accept it. That’s what they do. They’re the worst. The point is that our side is supposed to rise above that. That’s what makes use better.

    I have read Omar’s statements multiple times but I just don’t hear the anti-Semitism. I just don’t. “Allegiance,” if it’s is a whistle, I can’t hear it. I don’t think her sentiments ring false.I’ll be the first to say that I’m reflexively suspicious of her, because I’ve pretty much been programmed since birth to distrust Muslims, but that’s just prejudice and I try to acknowledge its unfortunate existence in myself, and set it aside when considering a situation. I think I’m trying to say that, in a way, that I *wanted* to hear the langauge that would confirm my innate bias against her. But I don’t hear it. I think what she said is legitimate.

    And yes, I would rather she be pro-Israel, because I want Israel to exist, but you can’t always get what you want. She is a representative in a representative democracy, and she is representing a point of view, because that’s what you get, hopefully, in a representative democracy — differing points of view. It’s not always going to be the one you agree with, even in your own party (conflict is going to be inevitable in the kind of big tent parties you get in a two-party system).

    But I get tobie’s feeling — I just don’t understand how she gets it from Omar’s language. If it had been a different whistle, I’m sure I would be saying much the same things (like I was when I was arguing with people here about the use of phrases like “Knesset West”).

    That’s the whole thing about whistles — they’re not explicit, on purpose. And so inherently not every dog will hear them. I think we need to at least listen to those that do hear them, though, and respect that it’s their real experience. You can’t tell someone, I think, that their experience of hearing something as racist or anti-Semitic is invalid, just because you didn’t mean it that way. It’s possible to say racist and anti-Semitic things without meaning it.

    I think the proposed BDS legislation in the Senate is gross and undemocratic. I disagree with BDS stances towards Israel, but it’s one of the tools of a democratic society. You can’t outlaw that.

    And yes, I do look the other way on Israel in ways I wish I didn’t. I do accept an overly unvarying support of Israel from our leaders because I’d rather err in that direction than the other. I do worry about Israel’s existence, whether or not others think that position is merited. I do worry about a resurgence of anti-Semitism (and certainly other forms of racism, but naturally I’m probably most sensitive about my own culture/race/religion).

    If you’re not Jewish, I don’t think you can tell American Jews how to feel about Israel. I think you’re entirely within bounds to speak whatever your feelings are about Israel’s actions, but not to frame that language in that of conspiracy. I’m not going to hear you. I’m going to hear “this is someone who knowingly or unknowingly doesn’t like Jews and so is singling out their country for criticism.”

    I don’t think Omar is a problem.

    I do think losing a third of our population less than a century ago makes us hypersensitive, but why wouldn’t it? And I’d prefer that critics of Israel try to work with that and understand it, rather than say “don’t be so sensitive.”

    Ok that’s all. I apologize for the lack of cohesion, but I think this topic is inherently one of many conflicting forces, within and without.

  182. 182
    Kathleen says:

    @Ohio Mom: Count me in.

  183. 183
    Kathleen says:

    @geg6: That is so cool!!!

  184. 184
    debbie says:

    @Ivan X:

    I spent a fair bit of time in an earlier thread from a few days ago arguing with commenters saying what to me were obviously anti-Jewish things, couched as anti-Israel things. I’m not convinced they knew they were blowing dog whistles,

    Did you give any thought that perhaps you were reading into their statements something other than what they were saying?

  185. 185
    Adam Geffen says:

    @Ivan X:

    Thanks for that comment. You captured well so much of my own feelings.

  186. 186
    debbie says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Shockingly, he’s not on the “No” list.

  187. 187
    Adam Geffen says:

    @debbie:

    “Did you give any thought that perhaps you were reading into their statements something other than they were saying?”

    Would you say that to a gay person complaining about homophobic dog-whistles?

  188. 188
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Adam Geffen: English literature for me.

  189. 189
    eemom says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Piss off, burnsie.

  190. 190
    Adam Geffen says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Did you have a focus within English literature?

  191. 191
    debbie says:

    @Adam Geffen:

    Just because you call something X doesn’t make it X. That is my point.

  192. 192
    Brachiator says:

    @Ivan X: Thanks for your thoughtful post

  193. 193
    Adam Geffen says:

    @debbie:

    ~nods~ I get what your going for what I’m struggling with is that “we” (we being the left/progressives) don’t normally interrogate a minority’s reaction to anti-minority speech. If a Black person says X is a racist dog-whistle we don’t turn around and say well maybe that racist behavior/speech is all in your head.

  194. 194
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @debbie: But AFAICT the reason why *Democrats* can still get twisted into knots over Israel/Palestine is largely because of the tradition of “liberal Zionism” dating back a hundred years or more, and the importance of Jewish intellectuals and professionals as a political interest group especially in the Northeast. E.g. Louis Brandeis. Jewish liberals support Israel, ergo questioning Israel risks offending Jewish liberals, ergo Democratic politicians who get elected on the strength of the votes of Jewish liberals want to keep them happy. This isn’t corrupt, venal, sinister, or sneaky. But it’s why these sorts of controversies erupt on the center-left rather than being more readily glossed as right vs. left. YMMV.

  195. 195
    Another Scott says:

    @Ivan X: Thanks very much.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  196. 196
    Ivan X says:

    @debbie: Yes, I did. I prefer to think positively of people, so that is where I start.

  197. 197
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Adam Geffen: British pre-1900, more or less. Other than that I’ll stay behind a veil of ignorance in hopes that my professional and personal opinions don’t cross streams. ;)

  198. 198
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Ivan X: Thoughtful comment. I don’t agree, but thanks.

    Tribes suck. All tribes. And at this critical point in America, we all just need to be Americans, not hyphen-Americans.

  199. 199
    Adam Geffen says:

    And now that work meetings are finished it is time for dinner! nom nom nom. :)

  200. 200
    Mike in DC says:

    Omar needs to take a selfie with George Soros where she kisses him.on the cheek, for maximum wingnut head-explodey effect.

  201. 201
    debbie says:

    @Adam Geffen:

    No, we don’t. Because most likely, it was a dog-whistle. That is not the same thing, though, as what’s being discussed here. If I can criticize my country and not be considered anti-American, why can’t someone criticize Israel and not be anti-Semitic?

  202. 202
    JanieM says:

    @debbie:

    Shockingly, he’s not on the “No” list.

    Wait a minute, I’m confused. Isn’t the “no” list only House members at this point? Or is there more than one list being discussed?

  203. 203
    Jay says:

    @Adam Geffen:

    The reason why it’s being “questioned” is because of the whole Omar issue. People have taken her words, out of context, projected big time, to stoke fauxrage.

  204. 204
    debbie says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Well, except liberal Jews have been the ones questioning Bibi’s actions and motives.

  205. 205
    debbie says:

    @JanieM:

    Crap, long day. Sorry, you’re right.

  206. 206
    Adam Geffen says:

    @debbie:

    Maybe I’m confused? I take as given that it is not per se antisemetic to critizise Israel. Indeed Israel under Likud rule is a dumpster fire of awful which breaks my heart.

    However, Ivan X said that some of the comments here read as antisemetic dog whistles. I did not take him to mean that criticism of Israel was itself an antisemetic dog whistle.

  207. 207
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @debbie: I think the long tradition of thinking that American Jews = liberals = Zionism = lockstep support for Israel means that American politicians don’t think that much about the complexities and diversities of actual opinion.

  208. 208
    Ivan X says:

    @Adam Geffen: thanks Adam. I indeed did not mean to say that criticism of Israel inherently is anti-Semitic, and tried to take pains to say so. Oh well, what can ya do. Thanks for taking the time and care to hear me.

  209. 209
    Adam Geffen says:

    @Ivan X:

    You are most welcome. I appreciated your comment.

  210. 210
    debbie says:

    @Adam Geffen:

    You’ll find that others don’t differentiate as you have, both here and at AIPAC HQ.

  211. 211
    Adam Geffen says:

    @debbie:

    ~sigh~ fair enough.

  212. 212
    Ohio Mom says:

    @debbie: Because now that I’ve read more, I see that the vote was in the House.

    I’m not even sure it goes to the Senate next, Maybe it is only a House thing?

    ETA: I see this has already been addressed.

  213. 213
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Ivan X: You should comment more, that was very well thought out.

  214. 214
    Ivan X says:

    @Ohio Mom: thank you — perhaps I will!

  215. 215
    neldob says:

    I just remember the reception Jimmy Carter’s book got (Palestine, Peace not Apartheid) and the Mearsheimer and Walt book in 2007. Both of those were excoriated, with accusations of antisemitism basically ending any discussion of the issues. The issues of Israeli treatment of Palestinians, settlements, etc. are not addressed. That seems to me what is happening now. Maybe it is time to address them or at least acknowledge them. Also, Omar is young and hasn’t imbibed the history of specific dog-whistles that I have.

Comments are closed.