Sunday Morning Garden Chat: Waiting on Spring

Just ordered some hardy perennials online, and was informed that our little plot north of Boston is now officially Zone 6-7. It was Zone 5-6 even a few years ago…

Anyways! I also ordered more root pouches, some flash tape, and a Root Slayer spade, so all I need to start my garden over from scratch is a longer daylight window and some unfrozen ground. Also more energy, or at least stamina, but maybe getting out there and digging will help with that part (ha ha).

What’s going on in your garden (planning) this week?






280 replies
  1. 1
  2. 2
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Snow, and single digit temps. I spent Friday cleaning up some downed stuff to augment what little firewood is in the shed and we now have a rank of wood to get us thru this week. I have a feeling tho that this is not the last of winter for us so I hunted up another rank from a guy down the road who makes his *living* cutting wood. It is so green as to be unburnable (this year anyway). It’s good oak so I bought it anyway to get a jump on next winter, but I still need to put up some more to finish off this winter as well as cut and split a bunch for next.

    *living*- His is a sad story of cancer, death, family, and loss, with no doubt a mixture of drugs and alcohol. His ‘place’ has the remnants of 3 burned out trailers, a barn that went up in suspicious circumstances, 2 abandoned vehicles, a pit bull, and trash everywhere. Think Winter’s Bone on steroids then multiply by 3 and you still won’t have an accurate picture. He’s a nice guy, working hard trying to make an honest living, but I’m glad he lives 4 miles away.

  3. 3
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: Nice, and soon, very soon I hope. This time the last 2 years my crocuses had been up for at least a week. This year we are having a much more normal winter, or at least what used to be normal.

  4. 4
    raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: It was 70 yesterday but a big storm is going to roll through later and it’s going to get cold again for a couple of days.

  5. 5
    NotMax says:

    Dragged up from downstairs. Forgot that wasn’t the official morning thread.

    (For Immanentize.) Sunday morn upbeat tune.

    More my own ‘take your own sweet time to become functional’ tempo music.

  6. 6
    Martin says:

    Looks like we have a manned space program again. SpaceXs Dragon just hard docked with the ISS. They’re preparing to open the hatch in a few hours. All indications is that everything went completely according to plan.

    Next step is an in-flight crew abort test in June (the rocket will get to the point of highest stress and then do an emergency abort). First crewed flight is tentatively scheduled for July.

    Boeing should be doing their first test in a month or so. So hopefully NASA will have two vehicles to work with by mid-year.

  7. 7
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: If you lived closer, I’d let you have my downed stuff. Years ago my neighbor asked if he could rake up my leafs and take them. His son was having a party and the dad wanted to make a big mound for children to jump into.

  8. 8
    JPL says:

    @raven: Blooms arrived early this year and so have my allergies.

  9. 9
    NotMax says:

    @Martin

    All that’s left is for Dolt 45 to claim credit. //

  10. 10
  11. 11
    raven says:

    @JPL: I was at two events this week, one at Peachtree City and the other at Kennesaw State. The nasty bradwood pears are jumping everywhere and I think that’s getting me. I have no idea how people live up there. I got up at 5:30 am to go up to the Illinois Monument at Cheatham Hill.. The traffic was insane and google maps had a hell of a time finding the battlefield since there are so many streets and places with Cheatham in them!

  12. 12
    Baud says:

    Ordering some dessert plants in anticipation of the Meridian Line getting to me sooner rather than later.

    Looking forward to the end of days weeds.

  13. 13
    JPL says:

    @NotMax: He already has.

  14. 14
    Baud says:

    @Martin: Some good news.

  15. 15
    Raven says:

    I just ordered my bride one of them shovels!

  16. 16
    Spanky says:

    @JPL: @raven: Even up here in Maryland the allergies have hit, although I think ours is pine pollen right now. My eyes are itching and Wheezer is sneezing like mad. He’s the one who as a kitten was hit pretty bad with the Feline Herpes Virus which attacks the sinuses, and I think his got some permanent damage. “Wheezer” sounded better than “Snuffleupaguss”.

    And AL, I think DC was in Zone 6/7 when I first moved here 40 years ago. Yikes!

  17. 17
    Lapassionara says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: what a haunting photo!

  18. 18
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: “Happy birthday Honey. Get digging.” ;-)

    @Lapassionara: I can’t help wondering what has happened to them.

  19. 19
    WereBear says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I feels it. so often, these folks are ones who realize what is going on when they are past that anger of unthinking youth but now they have even more baggage.

  20. 20
    Raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: She pretty much only allows me to mow, tote and maybe weed eat. Besides that I’m a hazard. She did have me cut down some small tree. She launches into these long explanations and I just say “there has never been a plant you haven’t agonized about removing, skip the narrative and just tell me what to Do”! I do think we’re going to remove the really old dogwood if front of the house. We have thought it was going to die for 10 years and it just keeps coming back.

  21. 21
    Amir Khalid says:

    Out of curiosity, how many degrees of longitude does that 140-mile shift amount to at the Canadian border?

  22. 22
    Lapassionara says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Me too.

    So yesterday I got a White Flower Farm catalogue, the first I have seen in years. Yikes to those prices! Nice photos, but I don’t see how they stay in business with the prices they charge.

  23. 23
    Baud says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Depends on the latitude.

  24. 24
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Baud:
    I did specify that in the question: “at the Canadian border.”

  25. 25
    satby says:

    Good morning everyone!
    @Lapassionara: their plants are bigger and healthier than their competition as a rule. I’ve only bought a couple of things from them (shrubs and a tree), but those have always grown really well.

  26. 26
    Baud says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I stopped reading before I got to that part of your sentence.

  27. 27
    Immanentize says:

    @Raven: That makes me very jealous. That’s like looking two months into my future
    @NotMax: perfect. Just how I feel. Thank you

  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  29. 29
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  30. 30
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @WereBear:

    these folks are ones who realize what is going on when they are past that anger of unthinking youth but now they have even more baggage.

    For a lot of people there comes a point where “this is”, is all that ever will be. The accumulated mistakes and sorrows can not be set aside, but one still wakes up in the morning and gets on with it.

  31. 31
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud:

    Ordering some dessert plants in anticipation of the Meridian Line getting to me sooner rather than later.

    Banana cream pie trees? Lemon meringue trees? Peach cobbler orchards?

    You have my vote.

  32. 32
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven:

    She pretty much only allows me to mow, tote and maybe weed eat.

    Smart move on her part.

  33. 33
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amir Khalid: @Baud: DOH!

  34. 34
    Sab says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am the same with my spouse. First year we were married he asked me what those yellow flowers were. Daffodils. Who doesn’t recognize daffodils?

  35. 35
    Baud says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Fuck everyone who can spell and read coherently this early on Sunday morning.

  36. 36
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Sab: I wish I had someone like Raven’s wife to tell me what to do, she has the eye. I just stick stuff in the ground and wait to see if it grows.

  37. 37
    Sab says:

    I am very curious to see if any of the perennials survived the goat cleanup.

  38. 38
    Ken says:

    @Baud:

    I stopped reading before I got to that part of your sentence.

    True presidential material.

    I think the original answer is: 1 degree at equator is 69 miles, the US-Canada border is 49 north, cos(49) is 0.65 so 1 degree at border is 44.8 miles, so 140 miles at the border is about 3.1 degrees.

  39. 39
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I may have told you this, but my Mother’s Dad, after he was done with farming and every job that may come by, sold wood by the road in front of his house. “I’ve got Wood to Burn” was what his sign said. If you wanted my Gramps to really get worked up, all you needed to do was ask him about cords versus “face cords.” I am sad to say he ended up a bit like your neighbor, even with family about.

  40. 40
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud: I still am intrigued by the dessert-growing flora. :)

  41. 41
    Ken says:

    @Sab:

    Who doesn’t recognize daffodils?

    I think that was one of the tells in the 1950s sci-fi movie “I Married a Monster from Outer Space.” How do dogs react around your spousal unit?

  42. 42
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amir Khalid: And to answer your question I would say 1.5 to 2.5 degrees.

  43. 43
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @mrmoshpotato: it’s the power of the presidency

  44. 44
    satby says:

    @Ken: math on Sunday morning? No fair.

  45. 45
    Sab says:

    @Ken: They like him a lot. The cats adore him.

  46. 46
    Sab says:

    @satby: It’s not Sunday morning in Malaysia, and Amir Khalid needed those numbers crunched.

  47. 47
    Immanentize says:

    @satby:
    Hi Satby — I was wondering: is your market open this time of year? Or are you waiting in Spring?

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Thankfully, Bush’s Manimal prohibition doesn’t cover plants. Consider it done.

  49. 49
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I had never heard the term “face chord” before. Had to google it to be sure it was what I thought it was. Around here it’s called a “rank”.

  50. 50
    satby says:

    @Sab: now my brain hurts //

  51. 51
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud: Mmmm…..fresh picked pies.

  52. 52
    rikyrah says:

    Amarnath Amarasingam (@AmarAmarasingam) Tweeted:
    If you don’t believe in white privilege, just take a look at what a Somali woman in a hijab daring to walk the halls of power is doing to these mafakas.

    https://t.co/WdsF63zBuv https://twitter.com/AmarAmarasingam/status/1102055716851011584?s=17

  53. 53
    WereBear says:

    @Sab: You’re okay then. Cats like the Good Aliens.

  54. 54
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Ken: Actually, they don’t say at what latitude that 140 mile shift occurs at. I just guesstimated it by how far the leading and the trailing edges of the transition zone moves.

  55. 55
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    My Grandfather would agree with that term. But he would get very upset when people sold “cords” that were only “face cords” (ranks). It came from his deep pride of the technical lingo of the profession being misused by bounders.

  56. 56
    satby says:

    @Immanentize: it’s open year round 3 days a week. It’s struggling though, the current board is refusing to adapt to more modern customer behavior and continues to pine for the good old days of the 50s and 60s as less and less people show up.
    I do fine there. But I’m considering how long it’s going to be worth it to stay past another year or so, or if I should retire for reals.

  57. 57
    rikyrah says:

    skeptical brotha 🌈 (@skepticalbrotha) Tweeted:
    Former Attorney General Holder says DOJ should be allowed to indict Trump

    https://t.co/J0ILmlxv3I via @thinkprogress https://twitter.com/skepticalbrotha/status/1102171944445767680?s=17

  58. 58
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: My brain hurts all the time.

  59. 59
    Immanentize says:

    @rikyrah:
    One of the most racist parts of D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation was a depiction of newly elected reconstruction blacks in Congress acting up, putting their feet on the desks, out of control. The old classics never grow old.

  60. 60
    Ken says:

    @Sab: @WereBear: That’s because cats are aliens. Dogs are the important tell, and even they aren’t perfect – some aliens have learned how to mind-control dogs by carrying bacon.

  61. 61
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize:

    But he would get very upset when people sold “cords” that were only “face cords” (ranks).

    I guess he didn’t understand that Cidiots need to be fleeced.

  62. 62
    rikyrah says:

    Amene (@Ange_Amene) Tweeted:
    I said this before but Bernie Sanders has the wrong type of Black surrogates.

    He relies on them to spread his message, except he fails to understsnd how these surrogates are seen by black people.

    https://t.co/3AfG9AGkEm https://twitter.com/Ange_Amene/status/1101917473933148160?s=17

  63. 63
    Nelle says:

    @<a href="#comment-@rikyrah: 7212803″>rikyrah: I’m not on Twitter but I would reply with the photo of sleek criminals, Jared and Ivanka with MSB the other day with the same caption. If I was in West Virginia, it would be worth it to print the photo on posters a d staple them on posts all over the capitol.

  64. 64
    Immanentize says:

    @rikyrah: @Immanentize:
    Ugh. I found it and it’s worse than I remembered:
    Congress scene from Birth of a Nation
    So with Congresswoman Omar we can get both historic white supremecy and islamophobia in one package!

  65. 65
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @rikyrah: But I thought when the President does it, it’s not illegal.

    On a serious note, this whole ‘Can a sitting President be indicted?’ question is ridiculous. Isn’t no one above the law? And indictments aren’t handed out just because.

  66. 66
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Actually, he liked nothing better than taking another man’s dollar. But not by calling “ranks,” “cords,” dammit!

  67. 67
    Spanky says:

    @Immanentize: I can only wonder what he would say about the shrink-wrapped bundles of firewood at the grocery store with 4-5 puny splits in each. Going for what? Maybe $4.99?

  68. 68
    Sab says:

    @WereBear: I want to plug your book again. My spouse has natural cat charisma. I don’t, except with the doggy sort of cats. Our shy cats now like me, since I got your book and try to follow your advice to the letter.

    Ken: I agree the cat charisma makes me nervous. Maybe it’s because he is in charge of cat breakfast.

    ETA. Also he cleans the litter boxes. It’s worth keeping a suspected alien around for that, even if it endangers the human race. I am selfish that way.

  69. 69
    Spanky says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Precisely. Indict him and then let the law work it out! And then watch John Roberts squirm for reals.

  70. 70
    Immanentize says:

    @rikyrah: Sean King is Bernie’s black surrogate! Damn, you cannot make this up or you would be hauled before Fake News Court. He is not a hero in the black community, although a certain type on the GOS likes him.

  71. 71
    Spanky says:

    @Sab: I am also the one in the house with cat charisma, probably aided by being the cat box cleaner. Mrs. Spanky feeds then at least once a day, but she also charges around in the AM in loud shoes as she’s running off to work. That scares them somewhat.

  72. 72
    Spanky says:

    @rikyrah: Bernie is spreading exactly the message he wants to. Always has, the asshole.

  73. 73
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    He’s no Killer Mike.

  74. 74
    Immanentize says:

    @Spanky: Where do you live, friend? Those are $7.99 around Boston!

    He would have lit up another Benson & Hedges.

  75. 75
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: That made me laugh. Thank you.

  76. 76
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Ken:
    Vielen Dank.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    this whole ‘Can a sitting President be indicted?’ question is ridiculous.

    I have to disagree, it’s a very difficult question. Electing a president is a political act. Whether one likes it or not, removing a president by whatever mechanism is also very much a political act because one is reversing an election and that has political consequences.

  78. 78
    Amir Khalid says:

    @mrmoshpotato:
    Can you indict a sitting POTUS? Eric Holder says yes, you can.

  79. 79
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Spanky:

    I can only wonder what he would say

    He’d be out there pounding a stake into the ground with a sign saying, “$7 an Armload” and know he was giving them a better deal than the gas station was.

  80. 80
    debbie says:

    I saw forsythia blooming yesterday. Snow today, very cold temperatures forecast for the entire week. Snowdrops are at peak. I fear spring will not live up to its name this year.

  81. 81
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: OMG. Did you know him? He did sell 18″ logs by “the armload!” Or is that standard out by you?
    (Now, of course, they seem to all be 16″)

  82. 82
    debbie says:

    @Raven:

    How early is that in your area?

  83. 83
    Princess says:

    @rikyrah: I think Bernie’s black surrogates are intended to work the way Trump’s black surrogates do. They’re not intended to convince black people; they are intended to give white people (in this case, white male self-described lefties) cover for voting for him.

  84. 84
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I was just referring to indictment, not removal. Yes, indictment could be the start of it, but I don’t see indictments guaranteeing removal.

  85. 85
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Does that mean he can serve out the rest of his term in jail?

  86. 86
    Amir Khalid says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Indicting POTUS does indeed have political consequences. But if the crime involved is ongoing and poses a danger to national security, as is true of what Trump is thought to have done, I think that’s a compelling reason to go ahead.

  87. 87
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: and eating fried chicken… You sure can put a lot of hate in a two minute clip.

    How much snow are you suppose to get tonight?

  88. 88
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: There are variations on the theme out here. The gas station in Sullivan sells by the shrinkwrapped bundle. The used car lot across the street from it sells it by the “box” (I would guess 12-14″ x 12-14″ by 16-18″) The guy who parks on the shoulder of 185 just before Meramec State Park sells it by the armload. I have no idea what any of them are charging these days.

  89. 89
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Raven: I admit some surprise that you’re allowed to wield something as dangerous as as weed eater. That’s some serious trust since I know how important her plants are to your bride.

  90. 90
    debbie says:

    @rikyrah:

    Their hate is born of their fear. They are nothing more than pussies.

  91. 91
    jeffreyw says:

    Bluejays? Don’t need no stinking bluejays!

    Ha ha ha – Too late!

  92. 92
    Immanentize says:

    @JPL: 5-7 inches. Although it may make me a bad professor, I am really hoping for a snow day tomorrow.

    The Immp and I are heading to Houston next week. Bit of a family visit, bit of a college visit, bit of please let me have some sun and warmth. Maybe I can go down to Dickinson TX and grab some feral cats….

  93. 93
    Immanentize says:

    @JPL: And drinking on the floor of Congress, of course. As if that is not a time-honored white tradition.

  94. 94
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    And molesting high school wrestlers.

    Oh, wait, that was Hastert. Never mind.

  95. 95
    BRyan says:

    @jeffreyw: @OzarkHillbilly: This. So eloquently said.

  96. 96
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: Ha, I read the first sentence and thought you were going for Gym Jordan! Hard to keep the creeps apart.

    Bush Tetras — Too Many Creeps

  97. 97
    JPL says:

    @Baud: Don’t forget Jim Jordan who turned away from the abuse going on under his watch.

    or what Immanentize said.

  98. 98
    Sab says:

    @jeffreyw: Supposedly, if your neighborhood has a lot of bluejays then you probably don’t need to worry about West Nile disease.

    On the other hand, my sister’s neighborhood in Columbus OH had an unusually large number of reported West Nile bird cases. Turns out the problem was a resident professor of ornithology, who reported dead bluejays instead of tossing them in the trash like a normal person.

  99. 99
    Tom Levenson says:

    @Ken: Trig before breakfast. My day is made.

  100. 100

    Ugh, it’s early. For me at least.

  101. 101
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Politically,I think that is a distinction without a difference. I look at how the GOP has politicized the Mueller investigation and can only think it would be even worse.

    @Amir Khalid: There are reasonable arguments on both sides of the equation. I lean towards impeachment first, removal, and then indictment because removal requires buy in from the president’s party which I think will make it more acceptable to the president’s party and hopefully a peaceful transition to a new administration. I am speaking here on the broader question, not this particular presidency.

    On this particular presidency I think it behooves us to be especially careful:

    This certainty that evil forces are working against Trump has become prevalent within the far right, breeding conspiracies such as QAnon, which posits Trump is fighting a “deep state” conspiracy that seeks to thwart his patriotic agenda. As such, Trump plays a dual role within the world of rightwing violence: while a “sympathetic” administration can spur a rise in violence, the perceived persecution of Trump – in large part an image created by the president himself – can fuel the paranoid and violent fantasies of people like Hasson.

    Both ideas can breed violence, especially if Trump is defeated in the 2020 elections.

    “What we’ve seen in the Trump-era is that a lot of the people on the fringes see opportunities for political engagement where they didn’t see it before,” said Berger. “The question is: what happens when that window closes?”

    Coupled with increased frustration by the limitations of political engagement comes the rise of more terroristic groups such as Atomwaffen Division, a militant neo-Nazi group linked to several murders. They and others have brought a less hierarchical and more disorderly structure to white supremacist activism, which makes them both harder to track and to control. Known as “leaderless resistance”, it has been a tactic of white supremacists for decades and lead to events such as the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, but has been made exponentially easier by the internet.

    No matter how this presidency ends I think it is safe to say we should be proceed with caution and forethought. It is both more difficult and more perilous because so much of the present day GOP seems to have bought into this criminal administration. It sucks but those are the cards we’ve been dealt.

  102. 102
    Spanky says:

    @Tom Levenson: What do any of Sarah Palin’s kids have to do with math?

  103. 103
    Sab says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I couldn’t agree more. They impeached Clinton in part because they were so outraged about Nixon a generation before.

    And that was handled carefully.

  104. 104
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @jeffreyw: Blech.

  105. 105
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    I thought Bill Hader’s Jordan was particularly on point on SNL.

  106. 106
    Amir Khalid says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    It seems at least plausible to me that Mitch McConnell might refuse to move on a Senate trial even after the House votes to impeach. I know what the rules say about that, but the rules didn’t stop him from flat-out refusing to move on a vote for Merrick Garland.

  107. 107
  108. 108
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’m still hungover on the plato = Corner Stone statements last night. Really?
    Because if that’s true, how’s the son unit doing? He’s about a H.S. freshman now?

  109. 109
    WereBear says:

    @Sab: Oh Sab, you have made my day! May I quote you on Twitter with my next marketing blitz?

    Blitz is irony: it’s me and whatever cat will let me take their picture :)

  110. 110
    StringOnAStick says:

    Minus 4 degrees this morning, it was actually warmer in the Colorado mountains yesterday and today than here in the edge of Denver. The earliest and warmest position crocus had bloomed last week but are under their second round of snow right now. Colorado’s Front Range: we like the start of spring so much that we do it at least 6 times every year.

  111. 111
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amir Khalid: At this point in time, in face of the extremely long odds on a successful impeachment and removal, I would prefer we focus on the investigations, legislation, and the next election. I see impeachment as a black hole sucking up everything useful that might get done.

  112. 112
  113. 113
    debbie says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    And also such a slow process that just voting him out will be much quicker.

  114. 114
    Sab says:

    @WereBear: Of course you can.

    My dad’s hyperthyroid (now cured) cat is only alive because of your advice (inappropriate peeing may be medical not bad attitude.)

  115. 115
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby:

    I’m still hungover on the plato = Corner Stone statements last night.

    I never read old comment threads so I missed all that and, from the tone of that, I think I am grateful for that.

  116. 116
  117. 117
    WereBear says:

    @Sab: I remember that, which also pleased me.

    I never set out to become a Cat Guru, but one settles on a mountaintop and sees who comes by in need of guidance, LOL.

    And it is certainly a far higher calling than whatever the Republicans have been doing.

  118. 118
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: in the Houston cat bleg.

    Edited to add: I always go back and read old threads, at least until the trolls show up.

  119. 119
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @StringOnAStick:

    we like the start of spring so much that we do it at least 6 times every year.

    Heh. I got my chuckle for the morn. Thanx.

  120. 120
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: She’s good.

  121. 121
    Sab says:

    @WereBear: I love your distinction that dogs live in packs (with a hierarchy) while cats live in colonies. Suddenly cats made sense to me.

  122. 122
    Ol'Froth says:

    Snow expected today, and cold next week, so my garden cleanup is postponed for a few more days.

  123. 123
    debbie says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    That photo on the home page!

  124. 124
    waratah says:

    @satby: I was wondering what happened to Corner Stone.
    Thank you for the place you found that carried my dwarf tomato seeds they even gifted me three other variety’s to try.

  125. 125
    Cermet says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Better words have not been said … enough.

  126. 126
    jeffreyw says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Back at ya. I’d like to pick your brain for a minute. We have a problematic door threshold, we have a sill that is higher than the inside floor by a significant amount and we worry that it is a tripping hazard. Are there thresholds available to slope that vertical bump? We bring in groceries in a cart and something more like a ramp than a cliff would help there, too. Outside is concrete, poured to pretty well match the sill elevation.

  127. 127
    MomSense says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Sounds like some of the people I work with.

    Just watched the SNL cold open from last night. Hader and Stiller really captured Gym Jordan and Michael Cohen perfectly.

  128. 128
    Sab says:

    @satby: What’s that about. I missed it.

  129. 129
    Amir Khalid says:

    @waratah:
    Have we ever seen Corner Stone and plato in the same thread?

  130. 130
    MomSense says:

    Politico is getting dragged for a ridiculous article. The headline is Kamala Harris is Connecting With Audiences – Sometimes to a Fault.

    Not going to give them any clicks because fuck them. The comments under their tweet are good, though.

  131. 131
    MomSense says:

    @rikyrah:

    I chuckle every time I see King referred to as Talcum X. He came out with an “origin story” about Wilmer. IT is to barf.

  132. 132
    Michael Cain says:

    Colorado’s Front Range: we like the start of spring so much that we do it at least 6 times every year.

    Yep. We’ve got four seasons, and we’re not afraid to use as many as three of them in any given week.

  133. 133
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    “Is Kamala Harris Too Popular?”

  134. 134
    MomSense says:

    @Michael Cain:

    Here in Maine we also have four seasons almost winter, winter, still winter, and road construction.

  135. 135
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    an “origin story” about Wilmer.

    Wilmerine is Marvel’s worst superhero ever.

  136. 136
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:
    Is that better or worse than over prepared?

  137. 137
  138. 138
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:
    Wilmerine!!! Ha! I’m so stealing that.

  139. 139
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    Ha! I almost went with that comparison.

  140. 140
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    The jokes write themselves.

  141. 141
    imonlylurking says:

    The bad news is, another round of cold, then in a couple of weeks more snow. I don’t know where we are going to put it-the piles are larger than I am.

    The good news is, since I changed jobs about a year ago I have so much more energy. We have some vacant lots across the street that are supposedly for gardening, and I am eyeing them quite greedily. I haven’t had the energy to garden in years-that is going to change this spring, I think.

  142. 142
    plato says:

    Jeebus folks, I am not cs.

    My own blog stalker asshole (get a life, man) took a potshot at me out of nowhere (read the thread and judge for yourselves) and I simply responded to his assholishness. End of story.

  143. 143
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @jeffreyw:

    We have a problematic door threshold, we have a sill that is higher than the inside floor by a significant amount and we worry that it is a tripping hazard. Are there thresholds available to slope that vertical bump? We bring in groceries in a cart and something more like a ramp than a cliff would help there, too. Outside is concrete, poured to pretty well match the sill elevation.

    Hmmmm…. You have a couple things going on there. First, it sounds like you have a high boy threshold, probably installed after the door was trimmed for some long forgotten reason (all properly installed ext doors are above the floor by an inch to allow for door mats) The outside concrete being poured level with the (top?) of the threshold tells me it got poured at some point in time after the door was cut and probably means the threshold will at best be difficult to remove. The easiest thing I can think of is to add a transitional piece app 3″ wide that goes from say 1/4″ below the top of the threshold to 1/4″ above the floor (it can be angled on the left and right ends to match as well)

    IF I am reading your situation correctly, the alternatives involve busting out concrete, repouring it, and replacing the door with a whole new unit.

  144. 144

    @plato: FWIW, I didn’t think you were CS. Wasn’t your last nym Plato nailed it or something close to that. CS has a totally different writing style.

  145. 145

    @OzarkHillbilly: So we can’t or shouldn’t do the right thing because we are too afraid of the unhinged supporters of the undeclared Orange monarch?

  146. 146
    Sab says:

    @Sab: Nevermind. Read the old thread. Yawn.

  147. 147
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: @MomSense: @Dorothy A. Winsor: You guys are making me laugh!

  148. 148
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Michael Cain: “Welcome to Missouri. If you don’t like the weather stick around 20 minutes, it’ll change.”

  149. 149

    @Ken: The earth is a sphere so we need to consider solid angles and the geometry is not plane anymore.

  150. 150
    waratah says:

    @Amir Khalid: I was wondering if he had changed his name. Have to check and see if he has to do food runs.

  151. 151
    jeffreyw says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Ack! Def don’t want to chip concrete. I was thinking a piece as you describe but was hoping for a more elegant solution. Thanks for your input.

  152. 152
  153. 153
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Having a wonderful slow morning here. The sun is shining, the temps are climbing, and it’s hard to believe we’re going to get 8-12″ of snow overnight. Just put away a big bunch of pancakes, since we have visitors, which is very nice – my son’s GF got her visa issue straightened out and got back in the US on Friday, so they’re here for the weekend. Life could be worse.

  154. 154
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: @OzarkHillbilly:
    I agree with Ozark but I also think that if we don’t proceed with impeachment this time around, where the president is a criminal, a traitor, a cheat and a racist thug, then no president will ever be impeached again.

    It reminds me of the filibuster. We can use the filibuster or they will retaliate by taking it away. But if we never feel like we can use it, then for all intents and purposes t’s already gone.

    I think we have to go ahead with impeachment, knowing full well the costs, to preserve our democracy.

  155. 155
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @MomSense: I remember that one as : pre-winter, winter, mud, and blackflies.

  156. 156
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @jeffreyw:

    but was hoping for a more elegant solution

    Paint it gold. That’s what Trump would do. It’ll look really classy.

  157. 157
    Immanentize says:

    @satby: @waratah: @Amir Khalid:
    I just had a most excellent ham and cheese croissant!….

    I am the one who wondered aloud if the two were the same. I have no proof they are, but my subconscious has collected a number of data points that somehow dumped into my consciousness.

    Cornerstone left after some community dust ups where he got pretty heated and insulting -; we all get that way occasionally, but Cornerstone liked to pick on specific folks.

    Soon thereafter, platonailedit shows up, mostly posting retweets and comments of political outrage (pretty normal here)

    But platonailedit never really gets into a thread, and rarely starts by responding to others (or even the post itself) but rather seems to be trying to get folks to respond to him. That was a prime CS characteristic.

    When platonailedit decides to change to “Plato” (when everyone was tempted to shorten their nym because website), a longtime commenter poked some erudite fun at now-Plato and s/he went off the rails. In a morning thread. People called him out. But the way he went after the other commenter indicated Plato had been on the blog for years, referring to long-past fights.

    Then, there was this one tell, which I will save for myself, which made me think that -+ oh, this is Cornerstone!

    When I suggested that the first time, there was silence from Plato: I thought Plato was just off that thread (and I am always having to jump on and off)

    The second time I mentioned that, I got a “Go F Yourself” from Plato, which was very Cornerstonesque. I think a normal not-Cornerstone commenter who just showed up a few months ago after CS left would say, “No I’m not” or, “who is that,” or something seeking to clarify, not to insult and fight.

    So that’s why I think it is quite possible Plato is Cornerstone. Others seem to have the same idea….

  158. 158
    WaterGirl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Getting the visa issue straightened out must be a huge relief to all concerned.

    P.S. I would like some of your snow here, please. We are only getting 1-3 inches.

  159. 159
    WaterGirl says:

    @WaterGirl: It’s probably obvious, but just in case… We can use the filibuster should be We CAN’T USE the filibuster.

  160. 160
    Immanentize says:

    @plato: OK, I stand corrected about you. But I have not been assholish at all. That said, I am rarely in the daytime or evening threads and I don’t engage you, so calling me a stalker is like the most full of shit Cornerstone thing imaginable.

    But I will now consider you a separate person, unique unto yourself.

  161. 161
    WereBear says:

    @Sab: Cats are communists!

    Which must be why liberals like them.

  162. 162
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat: No, we should consider ALL the factors before we make a decision of exactly what the right thing to do is. Impeachment, in this present climate is doomed to failure and as such pointless in doing anything other than inflaming our political opponents. (if your idea of the right thing to do is “pissing people off just for the sake of it” I will politely disagree.) A year from now, it will be beside the point.

    As far as the “unhinged supporters”, I live among them and can state unequivocally that the vast majority are not nearly as unhinged as people like to think. As to “being afraid”, again I live among them and I drive a truck with an “Impeach Trump” bumper sticker on it so obviously I am not afraid. But if the choice comes down to 5 mass shooters targeting the libtards or 50 mass shooters and I can do something to influence that # to the lesser, I feel it is incumbent upon me to do that.

  163. 163
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Immanentize:

    we all get that way occasionally, but Cornerstone liked to pick on specific folks.

    That’s been normal behavior for years and years. I’ve never had issues with the guy, but some other regulars have, and simply pie or ignore him.

  164. 164
    WereBear says:

    @MomSense: We do two: winter and bad sleddin’

  165. 165
    WaterGirl says:

    never mind, I see that this has already been addressed and my comment is outdated.

  166. 166
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Immanentize: I was one of Cornerstone’s 2 friends on the blog one evening. It was quite a while ago – and quite the thread, to say the least.

    Truth be told, I often get a kick out of him. Plato seems different, but it’s quite possible Cornerstone simply got over me. ::sniffling::

  167. 167
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Immanentize: I have trouble keeping track of nyms and their personalities, but Plato definitely strikes me as someone who’s been around a while. But Plato strikes me as a bit more of purist than CS was, and CS always had PUMA-ish chip on his shoulder wrt to Obama that I don’t see in Plato

  168. 168
    WereBear says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Assume a spherical cow. (Economics joke.)

  169. 169
    Kattails says:

    We’re due for 3-5″ of snow tonight, and I still need to finish my taxes, so gardening is not yet on the radar. However, this year needs to be renewing overgrown beds and clearing blackberries, followed by blood transfusions.
    @OzarkHillbilly: Yikes. Around here, north and west of Boston, I get a cord of hardwood, 4′ x 4′ x 8′, cut split and delivered for $225, and it’s seasoned. (I prefer the basil flavor myself.) I go through about 5 cords a year and really need to do some more insulating to get that down. That’s like over 15,000 pounds. I bought 4 cords this year and had another bit left over, plus some rather punky scrounged stuff, and I’m going to be out by the end of the month. So looking around for dead on the stump trees to add to the pile. Ah, the sweet smell of chain saw fumes.
    @WereBear: I never got back to you after our wonderful consultation. Patty did indeed come downstairs and only occasionally takes a little run at Becca, who could care less; but I do need to be able to get Becca upstairs into “Patty’s territory” and haven’t had the time to do the work. So happy to see the book in paperback, I will get my local independent bookstore to carry it.

  170. 170
  171. 171
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @WaterGirl: In the 230 year history of the Constitution there have only been 2 impeachments.

  172. 172
    rikyrah says:

    Joyce Alene (@JoyceWhiteVance) Tweeted:
    I bet that in his wildest dreams, Mueller never expected he’d be the theme for a Mardi Gras float.

    https://t.co/Xle5TiJoBq https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/1102061773895712768?s=17

  173. 173

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think T should be impeached because of what he has done to become the President and since. He has flouted norms and laws. For the rule of law to have any meaning it has to apply to all criminal no matter their station. Yes Ds need to build a water tight case but they have to act because it is the right thing to do.
    Also, I was not impugning your personal bravery. But I get tired of reading this argument made in the national newspapers too that T can’t be impeached because that will inflame his followers.

  174. 174
    JPL says:

    @debbie: It was but it was also was the truth.

  175. 175
  176. 176

    So I actually thought Sanders’s rollout was fine, and wouldn’t expect to see a much less white crowd at Liz Warren’s Brooklyn rally in a couple weeks. I still don’t think he would be a good president, but the rollout event seemed fine, just as a campaign event.

  177. 177
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @rikyrah: I saw that last night, I love it!

  178. 178
    Immanentize says:

    @WaterGirl:
    I’ve given long rambling opinions about indicting a president but here is my bottom line:
    Of course the DOJ can indict the president. The opinions about not indicting the president come from the DOJ who doesn’t ever want to indict their boss. But Ken Star certainly believed you could indict a president. I have waxed on about the fact that Indictments are just charges and can be sealed for years.

    I don’t believe a President can be criminally tried while in office. Even in the Jones case, the Supreme Court said if the civil case (at which you need not appear unlike a criminal case) got too distracting, it should be continued.

    The Constitution only allows three ways to remove a President: Impeachment, 25th Amendment process, and being voted out. So, no removal by conviction unless one of the other two.

    I agree with Ozark — the time before the 2020 election should be spent developing the record so that, should Trump again squeak out some kind of win (FSM forbid) the House can start impeachment proceedings in 2021 on a very big record.

    I am imagining that Cohen’s big reveal behind closed doors involved what he knew of Trump’s plans in 2016 to contest the election if he lost.

  179. 179
    Spanky says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Life could be worse.

    Loki sez “Hold my mead”….

  180. 180

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I like CS too. Corner Stone could be abrasive but also could be quite funny.

  181. 181
    debbie says:

    @jeffreyw:

    What about a thickish entrance mat, like an inside version of a welcome mat?

    Signed,
    Someone who knows absolutely zero about this stuff.

  182. 182
    WaterGirl says:

    We are getting a really fine snowfall — as in tiny little flakes — and the flakes seem to be so light that it’s blowing in spite of very little wind, and my entire screened in porch is covered in snow.

  183. 183

    Internet spats are weird things. I have someone on twitter right now calling me “coastal elite” and saying I don’t understand flyover territory. I’ve manage to ignore it so far but twitter makes it hard because it notifies me every time someone else responds to a tweet the poker left me. It’s seductive and maddening

  184. 184

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I am sure you can turn off the notifications

  185. 185
    tybee says:

    @rikyrah: is that a rubber glove on his right hand?

  186. 186

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I think you can disable notifications at the tweet level? Or block the user.

  187. 187
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Immanentize: Thanks! I agree with all of that, and appreciate that you summarized it so well; I will copy and paste (w/ or w/o attribution: your choice) to share with the kiddos I work with.

    @WaterGirl: We’ve got the same kind of sugar-like sprinkling here, which I don’t expect to amount to much.

  188. 188

    @schrodingers_cat: They only show up online because I sure don’t want them on my phone.

  189. 189
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Immanentize:

    I have waxed on about the fact that Indictments are just charges and can be sealed for years.

    So, for all we know, Mueller (or some US Attorney) may have indicted Trump already?

  190. 190
  191. 191
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kattails:

    (I prefer the basil flavor myself.)

    Heh.

    Those prices are for the tourists (“If it’s tourist season, why can’t we shoot them?”) This year a cord is going for about $150. Right now I am at the tail end of my 3rd cord, maybe into the 4th. The last 2 very mild winters lulled me into only putting up 2+. That’s alright, $50 a rank is good.

    eta: not delivered, nobody delivers out here

  192. 192
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Immanentize: I have waxed on about the fact that Indictments are just charges and can be sealed for years.

    Does the clock still run on the statute of limitations while the indictment is sealed? IANAL and may not even be phrasing the question properly, but doe the SoL run to indictment or trial?

  193. 193
    Immanentize says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: You can attribute it, but home much Catholic cosmology will you have to go through to explain what “immanentize” means?🤠

  194. 194
    rikyrah says:

    Matt Viser (@mviser) Tweeted:
    When Cory Booker left the stage here in Selma, Hillary Clinton stood and gave a big hug. The warmth was palpable. When Bernie Sanders left the stage, she stood and, as he was briskly walking past, it appeared they briefly shook hands. The chilliness was palpable.

    https://twitter.com/mviser/status/1102225138450350081?s=17

  195. 195
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    But I get tired of reading this argument made in the national newspapers too that T can’t be impeached because that will inflame his followers

    But that is not the argument I am making. I am saying it is one of the many factors to be considered. My argument is as stated in @OzarkHillbilly:

    At this point in time, in face of the extremely long odds of a successful impeachment and removal, I would prefer we focus on the investigations, legislation, and the next election. I see impeachment as a black hole sucking up everything useful that might get done.

    And by “extremely long odds” I mean “doomed to failure”.

  196. 196
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Immanentize: And here I thought you were paying homage to William F. Buckley.

  197. 197
    rikyrah says:

    @tybee:
    I thought that it was an American flag

  198. 198
    Immanentize says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The indictment tolls the statute of limitations and a sealed indictment has no effect on the 6th A right to a speedy trial. That only kicks in at arrest or arraignment

    This is part of my argument in favor of indictment. The rules regarding Indictments -+ particularly sealed Indictments -+ changed drastically in the 80’s (post Watergate). This was primarily due to the war on drugs and the use of sealed Indictments in large drug cartel cases. So, there exists a much more acceptable charging tool that didn’t get much use back in the 70s.

    And people forget that Nixon appeared in Indictments — just as an “unindicted co-conspirators”. No one can claim that is not proper although Rosenstein’s comments seem to suggest some might not allow that today at DOJ.

  199. 199

    @OzarkHillbilly: So we should only take up those fights where the odds of a win are high?

  200. 200
    rikyrah says:

    WeStandUnited🗽 (@_WeStandUnited) Tweeted:
    Hillary Clinton is being honored. That is right, Bernie has to sit there and watch her be honored for her work on behalf of the Black community.

    Bernie has never received such an honor because he has never done anything in the last 50 years for POC

    . https://t.co/WOvSXqafjk https://twitter.com/_WeStandUnited/status/1102229644256911360?s=17

  201. 201
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Immanentize: Ha!

    It’s odd that I could actually do some of that because when I just called an old friend to see if he had time to catch up and he told me not at this very moment “because I play in a church on Sundays now, which should amuse you – I’m the pastor’s second favorite Jew” and I actually asked “who’s the first?” before it hit me, DUH.

    It’s been a long week, and I may have had a few too many cocktails, which can slow a morning brain once we’re over 40.

  202. 202
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Here’s some Olympic-class trolling. Mayor of a small city in Ukraine shows up at a protest for his own ouster, even helps hold a sign calling for that. The protesters, mostly imported and paid, don’t even recognize him (he’s the guy the red arrow is pointing to in the photo.)

  203. 203
    Immanentize says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I think that there should be an Impeachment proceeding whenever it is appropriate. For me that means laying the proper foundation and record. That will take most of 2019 to do. The better the evidence/record, the likelier that the Senate will be forced to take the issue seriously.

    But as Impeachment is a political act, yes, in the end it is best for the Democratic Party to impeach when winning is the likeliest outcome and losing is not the sure outcome.

  204. 204
    tybee says:

    @rikyrah: the second link. that doesn’t look like a flag…

  205. 205

    @rikyrah: giving Hillary the same amount of support as he did in 2016, I see.

  206. 206
    debbie says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Plus (I’ll say it again), it will be quicker just to vote him out.

  207. 207
    Immanentize says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    That guy was a jackass.
    But he was quick on the uptake.

  208. 208
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat: There is an old saying: “Pick your battles.” Picking a battle one is sure to lose is stupid. And there is absolutely no way on dawgs green earth we are going to persuade 28 Republicans to remove their “Lord and Savior” from the Presidency. We have a very good chance of removing their L&S at the polls in 2020.

  209. 209
    Yutsano says:

    @Tom Levenson: I’m telling Brendan on you. Advanced mathematics just after the rooster crowed who are we savages?

  210. 210
    debbie says:

    @debbie:

    Fuck, I can’t edit me (if not me, then who?)

    I want him voted out by a landslide. The voice of the people. Impeachment is political and partisan. I want a truly democratic, bipartisan solution.

    @s_c (I can’t find your post): Fear? Seriously? That would be the last reason not to go up against Trump.

  211. 211
    rikyrah says:

    Amene (@Ange_Amene) Tweeted:
    Precisely.

    Shaun King didn’t get up on that stage to talk about Bernie’s record.

    He got up on that stage to “teach” black people about Bernie Sanders because we are uninformed. 🙃

    Bernie doesn’t have a record to stand on, therefore rebranding is a must.

    But it’s deceitful.
    https://t.co/8xCCbokDCD https://twitter.com/Ange_Amene/status/1102215041464492032?s=17

  212. 212

    @OzarkHillbilly: If T is not held to account (impeachment is one means of doing so), the next edition will be much worse. It will be not just a Hitler wannabe, but a Hitler with nukes. Doing nothing and letting him skate is not a consequence free and a risk free decision.

  213. 213
    oldgold says:

    Whether the House proceeds to impeach Trump, would seem, in large measure, dependent on what Mueller finds.

    Over the course of the last 6 months, I have been critical of Mueller’s pace and opacity!

    A recent article in the NYT may have disclosed one of the reasons for the pace of the investigation. Andrew Goldstein, who is reported to be Mueller’s Chief Lieutenant is described as follows: “He was very much measure 10 times, cut once,” said Kan M. Nawaday, a prosecutor who worked with Mr. Goldstein in the corruption unit. “

    Measure 10 times cut once!

  214. 214
    debbie says:

    @Yutsano:

    How are you feeling?

  215. 215
    WaterGirl says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I would venture to say that we have never before had a president like Trump.

  216. 216
    debbie says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Doing nothing and letting him skate is not a consequence free and a risk free decision.

    Who here is saying that?

  217. 217
    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Safest statement in the universe! ;)

  218. 218
    J R in WV says:

    @Baud:

    Ordering some dessert plants in anticipation of the Meridian Line getting to me sooner rather than later.

    Dessert, or Desert? ‘Cause one is sweeter than the other, which is drier.

    heh heh. ;-)

    G’mornin Baud.

    Our water is off this 37 degree and raining morning. I used bottled water to start coffee. I suspect the submersible pump is off the pipe, as the house system was dry, as opposed to having residual water as if the power went off at the pump house. Darn!!

  219. 219
    JPL says:

    @debbie: Then throw his ass in jail for treason.

    btw he is doing everybody is mean to me tweets.

  220. 220
    WaterGirl says:

    @Immanentize:

    I agree with Ozark — the time before the 2020 election should be spent developing the record so that, should Trump again squeak out some kind of win (FSM forbid) the House can start impeachment proceedings in 2021 on a very big record.

    I will have to ponder that.

    I am imagining that Cohen’s big reveal behind closed doors involved what he knew of Trump’s plans in 2016 to contest the election if he lost.

    And that, though in a different way.

  221. 221
    Amir Khalid says:

    @JPL:
    No POTUS in your country’s history has complained as much as Trump.

  222. 222
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    And there is absolutely no way on dawgs green earth we are going to persuade 28 Republicans to remove their “Lord and Savior”

    The true number of R senators needed is 20. 22 R senators are up for reelection in 2020. Self preservation will take effect as the bad news piles up.

  223. 223
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    That will come.

    If I was much of a tweeter and if Twitter allowed a very, very long thread, I would go through his CPAC speech sentence by sentence and point out the lie in each one.

    How many lies is Trump up to now?

  224. 224
    WaterGirl says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: It is like sugar! Superfine baker’s sugar, though not powdered sugar.

  225. 225
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Doing nothing and letting him skate is not a consequence free and a risk free decision.

    Doing nothing or impeachment? I do believe we have quite a few more options between the 2. Besides, my argument is that impeachment would in fact be consequence free! Show me how that is wrong.

    House investigations into ALL of trump’s illegal activities (including getting his tax returns) is consequence #1. Beating him like a rented mule in 2020 will be consequence #2. Not getting a preemptive blanket pardon from a DEM president #3. (fill in the blank) #4. and on and on and on…

  226. 226
    Immanentize says:

    @WaterGirl:
    The second thought is from my experience that people just don’t drop, “I do not believe he will go quietly into that good night” into prepared closing remarks without a story to tell.

  227. 227
    JPL says:

    @debbie: Daniel Dale covered it and I’m sure that he will update his list of lies. I sure hope the Toronto Star is paying him a lot. He’s going to need a long vacation after trump is out of office.

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    A Good Woman says:

    @WaterGirl: Exactly.

  229. 229
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @WaterGirl: True, and dawg willing and the creek don’t rise we never will again, but that is really quite beside my point which is that impeachment is extremely rare. That doesn’t mean it will never happen again just because we don’t impeach at this point in time.

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    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    I was just looking. Paywall unfortunately.

    He was quite the speed tweeter yesterday. I don’t know how he does that. My thoughts don’t even move that quickly!

  231. 231
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    The true number of R senators needed is 20. 22 R senators are up for reelection in 2020. Self preservation will take effect as the bad news piles up.

    For the majority of Republican Senators, (and all Republican House members) self preservation lies in winning their primary.

    ETA: You are correct, my math is off by a digit or 2

  232. 232
    Yutsano says:

    @debbie: Pretty good thanks! Rhabdomyolysis isn’t exactly fun but fortunately treatment is easy for it. You basically lean back and let specific IV fluids flow into you.

    I haven’t been released yet because there is also a neurological issue that probably won’t even be looked at until Tuesday. Plus they’ll send me to rehab for a couple weeks after this as well.

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    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Same here. The previous owners of this city row house had put in a garden plot in the back yard – southern exposure & in the lee of an almost-garage-size brick shed. When I bought it >30 yrs ago Mom, who owned the family green thumb, set to work on it & we were getting tomatoes & peppers & squash till nearly Halloween. That kind of ended when Dad passed in ’98, because I have the family gray thumb – every living thing I touch withers away. I need to find a ladyfriend who likes me & likes gardening only slightly less … but I think that ship has not only sailed, but capsized from the weight of the decades’ baggage & went down with all hands.

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    Yutsano says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: All I care about is that as of January 20, 2021, that thing is no longer in office. And then the Mueller indictments must flow..

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    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    FWIW, the storm arrived here two hours before predicted. Plan accordingly, all you East Coasters!

  236. 236

    @OzarkHillbilly: Beside impeachment what other remedy does the constitution provide to remove a president from office? Ds don’t have to start the proceedings right now, but if their investigations bring them to the conclusion that crimes were committed and they do nothing because it was not politically expedient, that sets a bad precedent.

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    debbie says:

    @Yutsano:

    My hope is that the second issue is part of the first (everything is so interconnected) and that treating the first will resolve the second.

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    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: I’m pretty good at growing stuff, my problem (outside of fruits and vegetables) is it’s not always the right stuff and even when it is it just looks like some kind of mish mash.

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    JPL says:

    @Yutsano: That sounds awful, and you are so lucky that your father took you to another hospital.

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    oldgold says:

    If Mueller produces credible evidence Trump is in effect a Russian agent, there will be the votes in the Senate to convict.

    Otherwise, even if significant illegal conduct is disclosed, the votes necessary to convict are probably not there.

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    WaterGirl says:

    @Immanentize: Damn! I watched the whole hearing, and I either did not catch that comment or I did not assign the appropriate significance to it. thanks.

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    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Out of curiosity, how many degrees of longitude does that 140-mile shift amount to at the Canadian border?

    Oh great—here comes another “54-40 or fight!” debate

  243. 243
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Beside impeachment what other remedy does the constitution provide to remove a president from office?

    Elections. A successful impeachment, however unlikely that may be, would take us well into 2020 and suck all the oxygen out of the run up to the election. And if (when imo) trump beats the impeachment he gets a boost going into the election and all the things DEMs we’re gonna beat up on him over have now been decided to be much “ado about nothing” and so lose whatever punch they might have had (with the general electorate).

    And now I have to git. Feel free to disagree.

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    chopper says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    it’d be nice to pick a battle where the odds of winning are above zero.

    especially when you get one chance.

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Regarding impeaching Trump at this point in his term – I think we made a mistake here in Wisconsin by seeking to recall and remove Scott Walker in 2011. Our efforts would have been far better spent on taking back the WI legislature in 2012. The fact that all that work was done in 2011 without removing Walker left activist exhausted and demoralized going into 2012.

    Given that there is no fucking way that we will get sufficient votes in the Senate to remove Trump, I think that we should concentrate on winning in 2012. Avoiding impeachment doesn’t mean that Trump will face no reckoning for his action. Criminal prosecution will still be available.

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    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I was listening at work, and my head snapped up when he said that. It really was ominous.

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    chopper says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    canadian degrees are currently running at about .75 US degrees.

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    Kattails says:

    Thread’s probably dead but…
    @OzarkHillbilly: Yes, I thought for sure I’d get by with what I had. Not sure if anybody’s got any seasoned left. I can get kiln-dried for $395 a cord (!!!) delivered, sigh, or maybe borrow a friend’s pickup truck, because I’m gonna come up about 2 months short at this rate. I remember 2′ of snow on a mid-April Easter. Then mud season then black flies.
    Impeachment: I don’t know what the mechanism should be. All I’m sure of is that letting the Republicans skate has only made them uglier, more reactionary and brutish. We are so lucky our political mechanisms have so far allowed for checks on their behavior. I have no doubt whatsoever that they would cheerfully eliminate those checks in a heartbeat given slightly more leeway, in fact were aiming for that. Trump in jail for treason would be a good start.

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    WaterGirl says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: You and Imm have won me over. All the hearings in the world, without the word impeachment attached to them, will surely get the facts on the table and prepare for November 2020, either for impeachment or indictments.

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @chopper: I don’t have as low an opinion of Canadian universities as you obviously do.

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    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Dave Epstein is saying to expect widespread school closures tomorrow.

  252. 252
    Immanentize says:

    @WaterGirl: It was right in his closing statement. I paraphrased, his exact quote was:

    Given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power.

  253. 253

    @Omnes Omnibus: I am not suggesting that impeachment proceedings should start right now. But saying that he shouldn’t be impeached because its going to be politically difficult is the exact reason why we have a psychopath in the Oval office. And the reason that he could even become the President despite his lifetime of criminal activities.
    The fear or inability to prosecute the powerful. That’s how you get banks that are too big to fail and CEOs too big (rich) to jail. The rule of law is a fucking joke if only the powerless pay a price. That’s how Epstein skates while the 13 year olds who he and his buddies raped are scarred for life.
    Six month old children are in detention while we are supposed to praise the architect of the policy for writing a fucking memo noting his displeasure at giving Jared Kushner a security clearance.

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    Immanentize says:

    @JPL: I love this David Epstein fellow!

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    Immanentize says:

    @chopper: Just like the Canadian dollar?

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    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: Have to admit that I was totally clueless! I am usually more observant than that, or at least I like to think so.

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    WaterGirl says:

    @Immanentize: Holy fuck!

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    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    By then, it was easy to miss things — there was just so much to take in!

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    StringOnAStick says:

    @Immanentize:

    I am imagining that Cohen’s big reveal behind closed doors involved what he knew of Trump’s plans in 2016 to contest the election if he lost.

    Hmm, I hadn’t thought of that but I bet you are correct. No wonder the senators looked so sober after that day of closed door testimony. I suspect that the IC has a good idea of what Putin’s buddies were planning on doing to support that, what with the maximum chaos effect that would be.

  260. 260
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Six month old children are in detention while we are supposed to praise the architect of the policy for writing a fucking memo noting his displeasure at giving Jared Kushner a security clearance.

    I would pay good money to see that on a billboard.

  261. 261
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: Now I am for sure going to listen to the Lawfare podcast that’s just 1 hour of Cohen at the hearing, without all the bullshit. Who knows what else I missed?

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    Kathleen says:

    @Immanentize: Dessert and floor wax.

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    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Immanentize: jokes are always funnier when you explain them!

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    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: There is no one here arguing that there should be no consequences for Trumps actions. There, however, are people (of which I am one) who are suggesting the impeachment may not be the best mechanism by which to effect those consequences. A grand gesture that is almost certainly doomed to failure is not really the best way to do things.*

    *If the facts on the ground change, then my opinion on impeachment may also change. As things stand right now, impeachment is a bad idea.

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    debbie says:

    @StringOnAStick:

    True or false: Did the GOP panel members attend the closed-door session? This keeps popping up on my FB feed.

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    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Of course they are! He’s a professor fer cryin out loud.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    A grand gesture that is almost certainly doomed to failure is not really the best way to do things.*

    *If the facts on the ground change, then my opinion on impeachment may also change. As things stand right now, impeachment is a bad idea.

    I agree with all of this. For whatever that might be worth in USD or €.

  267. 267
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Impeachment would also be quite the wedge issue for the GOP.

  268. 268

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have not argued for starting impeachment proceedings right now. I am against declarations of how it is not an even option because Rs (in the Senate or the ones that attend the ramblings of Orangenero)

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  270. 270
    StringOnAStick says:

    @debbie: I think I wrote “Senators” when I should have said “Representatives”, referring to the day of testimony before his public day. The day after that was a closed door hearing with the Senate Intelligence subcommittee, and while I have googled around, I can’t find comments one way or the other about how many R members did or didn’t show up. If we had better media members, I guess we’d easily know if this is true or not.

  271. 271
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: There are only two plausible ways to get the Tang Emperor out of office before January 2021: Death or resignation. With the Democrats in control of the House, impeachment is feasible, but with the GOP in control of the Senate, removal is not. (Where would one find 20 Republican Senators to vote for removal at the cost of losing their next primary to the fury of the Trumpanzee base?).

    Trump won’t resign the Presidency unless the alternative is worse. The only “worse alternative” would be to face prosecution under the RICO statutes after he leaves office, with the potential forfeiture of all his assets. He might be inclined to agnew, i.e., negotiate a plea agreement that gets him out of the gummint with his fortune (such as it is) intact. And he might not. And it might not even be possible, since the RICO prosecutions might not be under the control of anyone inclined to cut such a deal. (NB Agnew was allowed to plead nolo contendere to accepting bribes only because it was a Federal charge. US Attorney for MD George Beall & his team badly wanted to put “Ted” behind bars & was furious when their superior, USAG Eliot Richardson, overruled them on the grounds that it was more important to get a provable felon out of the line of Presidential succession ASAP. It is not at all clear that the legal officers for the several states that might undertake RICO prosecutions would or even could agree to such a deal.)

    The real problem with Trump’s departure by resignation or death is that it puts the White House in the hands of Mikey Dense – who may be as stupid as rumored but is probably sentient enough to do what he’s told by more competent aides who share his repulsive policy agendas.

    Now as for “not going gently into that good night,” the IC and any elements of the military loyal to the rule of law ought (IMO) to be keeping a very close watch on personnel transfers into Trump’s near vicinity, particularly as his political/legal troubles mount, against some sort of double-reverse-twist Seven Days In May scenario.

    And for those of you who believe that’s paranoid, I cite Gravity’s Rainbow, by Thomas Pynchon, & his Proverbs for Paranoids #5:

    Paranoids are not paranoids because they’re paranoid, but because they keep putting themselves, fucking idiots, deliberately into paranoid situations.

    IMHO, we have inadvertently been put deliberately into such a situation.

  272. 272
    chopper says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    to get 20+ republicans in the senate to vote to convict (in spite of what will be mcconnell’s tour de force of vote-whipping to the opposite) would require the sort of evidence i can’t even imagine. certainly not anywhere close to what we’re looking at now. that could change, but as it currently stands impeachment would be useless.

    the sort of election that would give us a far more democratic senate in 2020 is the same election that would kick trump out of office anyways.

    i’d agree that we should instead focus on winning 2020, senate and all. and once T is out of office the indictments can pour down like the waters.

  273. 273
    chopper says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    the other thing is, we remove trump and pence steps in.

    who is the best opponent to have in 2020 in terms of bringing out democratic voters? i’d argue trump.

  274. 274
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I go back and forth on this question, OTOH removal by the Senate is never going to happen, on the other, the Constitutional purist in me wants to see the House establish the standard for the sake of history’s judgement.

    On the fifth or sixth hand, we have had only one public hearing on trump’s malfeasance. I’m not a hundred percent confident in the lumpenmittel keeping up with the details and the long arc of the story/stories of the various forms of corruption in the trump business, campaign and White House, and a third of the country is going to dig in further with him, but maybe people who aren’t full-on MAGAts will find junior as smug and obnoxious as I do, and maybe Alan Weisselberg will take the fifth once too often, and maybe Mueller has paper trail, and maybe… We’ve taken the necessary first step, and the House is planning the next ones.

  275. 275
    satby says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I was the other, I like to think (and was accused of by one who shall remain nameless) and I miss CS.

  276. 276
    StringOnAStick says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I agree; we’ve just started getting some Congressional investigations going, and that is only happening because we won control of the House. My POV from being around people who don’t care much about politics and pay little attention is that if we impeach and then the Senate refuses to convict because of all the R senators who don’t want a primary challenge from the right, then the uninformed citizen says “huh, musta all been a big nothing, just like Hannity/Williams/Todd said, Trump’s totally innocent”. I know that’s impossible for political junkies like us to even entertain, but I guarantee you that not only will the RW media spin a lack of conviction as a total win, so will the R-leaning MSM (which means about all of them).

    Besides, I don’t want him removed from office unless Pence is removed first. I have zero doubt that after the frenzied fight that would happen to get rid of tRump, the strong desire of the MSM is to normalize Pence as just the right kind of solid, low drama POTUS we need right now. Getting rid of tRump gets us Pence, who the evangelicals will crawl over lemon juice soaked glass to defend and vote for, even more so than tRump.

    We need to spend every moment that the public will listen on positively promoting the possible D candidates and what they want to do for the US and to change the trajectory we are on. That tax cut was the final coup de grace to Medicare and Social Security unless we change taxation issues immediately; we can’t afford to lose this next election, period. If we are in the middle of an impeachment battle then that will get all the media and public attention, not discussions of how to form a more perfect union by cleaning up the damned mess we are in now. Impeachment lets the MSM be even lazier than they are now; investigating the hell out of him, hopefully indicting all his kids plus all his business associates will be catnip to the press, and it will all be focused on their criminality, not on running endless “how is this unlike the impeachment of Nixon, part 23” stories.

  277. 277
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I’ve been wondering what happened to CS, I gather I missed some drama

  278. 278
    Miss Bianca says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Damn, you could be describing one of *my* neighbors. Here in the middle of Redneckburg, CO.

  279. 279
  280. 280
    J R in WV says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    If T is not held to account (impeachment is one means of doing so), the next edition will be much worse. It will be not just a Hitler wannabe, but a Hitler with nukes. Doing nothing and letting him skate is not a consequence free and a risk free decision.

    On the other hand, if Trump is taken into custody when he arrives in NYC returning home from the inauguration of his successor President, placed under arrest by his own appointed DoJ employees, taken to court for arraignment that evening, is not letting him skate.

    Nor is allowing him to flee to Russia, my second favorite outcome, allowing him to skate.

    @J R in WV:

    On further inspection, the relay in the pump house which uses a 120-volt leg from the house where the pressure switch is, to contact the 240-volt power to the submersible pump appears to be not functioning properly, instead of contacting cleanly it bounces, causing bright blue flashes instead of power to the pump.

    On the one hand, a pain, on the other hand, not nearly as big a pain as pulling the pipe and pump from 80-odd feet down. I hope the intermittent power to the pump didn’t harm it, it wasn’t like that all night long.

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