Curmudgeonly Post On Recurring Science Ignorance

Before I get more emails on this.

Boy, 14, creates nuclear reactor in his bedroom

What he built – not created, built – is called a fusor or fuzor. Instructions for building one abound on the internet.

A boy, yes a boy as opposed to a girl or gender-nonconforming kid, does this every few years, with adoring parents who manage to get him into the news.

I am irritated by the recurring science ignorance of the reporters who don’t just tell the parents to fuggetaboutit.

I am also irritated by the recurring meme of boy science genius. It’s a message to girls that boys are the only ones who do this kind of thing or will get credit for it. One of these BOYS, a few years back, was hailed as the next Einstein because he had some uranium ore in his garage. He didn’t even finish college. Have you heard of him? I can’t even remember his name.

That is all. Open thread.






196 replies
  1. 1
    debbie says:

    I’d rather the press focus on the young boys and girls who give food or warm clothing to the homeless or set up a program so no kid eats lunch alone.

  2. 2
    jacy says:

    My kid, 13, successfully made coconut cream pie from scratch. And not just one coconut cream pie, but 10 individual cream pies. (And the only help I gave him was telling him that it didn’t matter how many ounces of flour were in a pound). I shall await the reporters.

  3. 3
    Brachiator says:

    I am also irritated by the recurring meme of boy science genius. It’s a message to girls that boys are the only ones who do this kind of thing or will get credit for it.

    Wow. I didn’t get this at all from the headline. I just think of kids as kids.

    I didn’t look at the full story yet, because I knew that the headline was misleading.

    My commute used to include riding on a bus that travelled between JPL and Caltech. Some of the most amazing and Interesting people on that bus were women scientists and engineers. I hope there are more and more in the coming years.

  4. 4
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Pfft. Sheldon Cooper did that decades ago.

  5. 5
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Brachiator:

    I will cosign that thought, from start to finish.

  6. 6
    trollhattan says:

    I kinda liked the buckets of uranium ore at the Grand Canyon Park museum. Maybe not from an employee perspective but an oddity nevertheless.

  7. 7

    I feel your pain. When people use words like stochastic, chaos, optics etc etc completely ignoring their precise definition.
    and compare random percentages without telling you what their comparing with respect to.

  8. 8
    Brickley Paiste says:

    A boy, yes a boy as opposed to a girl or trans kid, does this every few years, with adoring parents who manage to get him into the news.

    A trans boy is a boy, not a “trans kid”. Just like a trans girl is a girl. Not a “trans kid.”

  9. 9

    @Brachiator: It’s pretty well established in gender studies that the meme of the lone male genius discourages kids of other genders and colors (the lone male genius is usually white) from pursuing science as a career. Part of the message is also that you have to be extraordinarily brilliant to count at all.

  10. 10

    @Brachiator: You should check out the Train song from Gully Boy in the last thread! It totally made me feel like jumping on a local (train).

  11. 11

    @Brickley Paiste: How about we compromise at “gender-nonconforming”?

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    I saw an article about that and wondered, wtf… The complete lack of any explanation was a tell, though.

  13. 13
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: You also don’t need letters after your name to be a success.

  14. 14
    Obvious Russian Troll says:

    Uh, how safe is a nuclear fusor anyway? Asking for a friend.

  15. 15
    Kent says:

    It is Fox News. What do you expect?

    Do we really need to chase down every one of their rabbit holes?

  16. 16
    hells littlest angel says:

    One of these BOYS, a few years back, was hailed as the next Einstein because he had some uranium ore in his garage. He didn’t even finish college. Have you heard of him?

    Let me guess — died of cancer?

  17. 17
    Brachiator says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    It’s pretty well established in gender studies that the meme of the lone male genius discourages kids of other genders and colors (the lone male genius is usually white) from pursuing science as a career.

    The story about the boy building the nuclear reactor was largely bullshit. Would you have preferred a bullshit story featuring a girl?

    BTW, I think a lot of stuff “well established” by social science is nonsense. I include, but do not single out gender studies. Nor do I reject or minimize problems of women and people of color in science or any other profession. Did you see the recent NYT article about the black math professor?

    Part of the message is also that you have to be extraordinarily brilliant to count at all.

    Interesting. How harmful is this. Do we need the equivalent of a Nobel Prize for adequacy?

  18. 18

    @hells littlest angel: The last I heard, he was living in his parents’ basement.

    @Obvious Russian Troll: My guess is that the electrical part is the worst hazard. There’s not much radiation from a few atoms fusing.

  19. 19

    @Brachiator: The focus on boy geniuses has always put me off with the message that I don’t count.

  20. 20
    Brachiator says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    A trans boy is a boy, not a “trans kid”. Just like a trans girl is a girl. Not a “trans kid.”

    Why are you bothering with this idiocy. I mean, apart from the desire for attention.

  21. 21
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Cheryl, for your consideration, my girlfriend is a therapist specializing in the Trans community. Brickley is correct in this matter.

  22. 22
    WaterGirl says:

    @jacy: now I want coconut cream pie. The first pie I ever made was homemade lemon meringue pie. Yum!

  23. 23
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: The number of times a Dr. This-or-that discounted me because I only had a B.S. is the other side of that coin. Most of them never accomplished a tenth of what I did. I was busy building while they were just thinking.

  24. 24
    JanieM says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Part of the message is also that you have to be extraordinarily brilliant to count at all.

    Unconscious ingestion of this message shaped my whole life, in terms of paths not taken when I was young.

    *****

    This is one of those threads where I wonder why front-pagers bother. Cheryl expresses a peeve and people jump on her from seven different directions……

    I will not name trolls who taste like pie, but “boy” and “girl” are not the only possible categories.

    All-time favorite book title: “Gender Outlaw: Men, Women, and the Rest of Us,” by Kate Bornstein.

  25. 25
    West of the Rockies says:

    I’d like to see a reboot of Dr. Horrible with a female scientist. That could be a very funny and provocative story.

  26. 26
    JanieM says:

    @jacy: My laugh of the day. (So far.)

  27. 27
    JanieM says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Cheryl, for your consideration, my girlfriend is a therapist specializing in the Trans community. Brickley is correct in this matter.

    It may be correct from the terminological point of view to say that boys are boys and girls are girls, with no qualifiers, but it is certainly not correct to say that everyone falls into one of those categories or the other.

  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    Raw Story (@RawStory) Tweeted:
    GOPer demeans Kamala Harris and gets schooled by black pundit: ‘There’s no such thing as the Obama black primary’

    https://t.co/nusYpEUFPs https://twitter.com/RawStory/status/1099724346740957184?s=17

  29. 29
    JPL says:

    Actually I’m not gonna brag on my sons creations on this thread, because somethings are better not repeating. Yes my hair is grey, why do you ask.

  30. 30
    West of the Rockies says:

    @JanieM:

    Quite so. There are multiple (sometimes vexing)* terms, but people who transition or who are in the process get TONS of pushback and disrespect for their pronouns

    *There is a student in my daughter’s high school who insists that her gender and pronoun is Unicorn. That is also the name she goes by.

  31. 31
    Pogonip says:

    Well, I don’t know how old Cheryl is, but I must say I don’t see how any female under the age of about 40 can have escaped the ubiquitous modern grrrl-power messages. She may choose to ignore them because fuzors or whatever are not an interest of hers, but she’s almost certainly aware of them.

  32. 32
    Brachiator says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The focus on boy geniuses has always put me off with the message that I don’t count

    Totally understandable.

    This kind of thing has always driven me nuts. The people I have most admired have been the women in my family, and many of my mother’s friends. It would have been insane for me to think, “Nope, can’t use them as a role model cause they are girls, and girls have cooties.”

    But I know that the world is stupid in all kinds of ways, and America is regressing into a deeper anti-intellectualism along with other problems.

  33. 33
    A Ghost To Most says:

    I am the parent of an Asperger’s trans-gender kid. I have no answers. We got him through college, and he is now working with autistic kids. Great kid, but a ways to go yet.

  34. 34
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    You should check out the Train song from Gully Boy in the last thread! It totally made me feel like jumping on a local (train).

    Just saw it. Fun clip. The movie looks charming.

  35. 35
    Xavier Onassis says:

    Good thing he wasn’t a Muslim.

  36. 36

    @Pogonip: There are many subtle and unsubtle messages given to women and girls in science especially the more mathy physical sciences and engineering that they don’t belong. This includes inadequate number of women’s bathrooms in engineering and science buildings. So many times in upper level and graduate classes you can be the only woman in class and so on. Grrl power messages are not enough by far.

  37. 37
    debbie says:

    @rikyrah:

    Castellanos, as always, can go fuck himself.

  38. 38
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Brachiator:

    BTW, I think a lot of stuff “well established” by social science is nonsense.

    There is an amazing amount of junk, not replicated, used to justify policy and business decisions. Then there’s the social-science-by-assertion. My current (personal motivation) metaphorical chew toy; the notion that open plan offices “increase collaboration and creativity” because it’s obvious.[1] And oh, they also lower real estate costs. The second is true. The first is false; the actual experimental studies(the one’s I’ve found at least) show that open plan offices decrease collaboration, and productivity.)

    [1] Good links in article. New Harvard Study: Your Open-Plan Office Is Making Your Team Less Collaborative – This puts the final nail in the coffin of the idea that open-plan offices boost interaction and collaboration. (Jessica Stillman)
    (Paper link: The impact of the ‘open’ workspace on human collaboration (Ethan S. Bernstein, Stephen Turban, 02 July 2018))

    Let us not forget that AOC placed high in the Intel (at the time) science fair. (She, I am certain, had mentoring by working scientists due to location.)
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won a prestigious science-fair prize for research involving free radicals
    (Georgia Frances King, December 1, 2018. Groaned a bit at the pun but heh.)

  39. 39
    Brachiator says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    I’d like to see a reboot of Dr. Horrible with a female scientist. That could be a very funny and provocative story.

    One of the many pleasures of the animated Into the Spderverse movie is that one of Spider-Man’s chief villains is rebooted as a woman.

  40. 40
    sukabi says:

    @debbie: like this? Saw the story this morning on local news. They didn’t make clear AT ALL that they were rerunning a story from last summer…or what part of the country it was located in. Made it seem local and that new animals were available to be adopted.

    😳😡

  41. 41
    JanieM says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Heartily seconded.

    It’s not just a matter of girls “choosing to ignore” the “ubiquitous” messages. There’s still a ton of cultural and familial pressure on a lot of girls to do “girl” stuff and not “boy” stuff…..and on boys to do “boy” stuff too, of course. In much the same way, even though gay couples can get married now and Ellen is on TV and etc., many LGBT kids still have a very difficult road to travel to get out from under disapproving parents, religious figures, etc.

  42. 42
    danielx says:

    Curmudgeon – one of my favorite words. Sounds at least somewhat better than “surly old bastard”, which I was told a while back is what I am becoming.

  43. 43
    Brachiator says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    Let us not forget that AOC placed high in the Intel (at the time) science fair. (She, I am certain, had mentoring by working scientists due to location.)
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won a prestigious science-fair prize for research involving free radicals
    (Georgia Frances King, December 1, 2018)

    Interesting that AOC, herself, is a kind of free radical.

  44. 44

    @Brachiator: I will watch it when it streams. It captures the zeitgeist, has great music, a woman director and the protagonist is a Muslim young man from Dharavi . The movie is on its way to becoming a big hit. It is sensitively made. I have a feeling though that it won’t get as much love in the west as Danny Boyle’s poverty porn with a fantastical twist got. That movie was ridiculous on multiple levels.
    ETA: I am also tired of seeing the British Dev Patel as Hollywood’s token Indian. The Indian movie scene is bursting with talent and they can speak English too.

    ETA2: I do understand that there is a language barrier. But I am just not a fan of seeing India through British eyes. Including those god awful Marigold Hotel movies.

  45. 45
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Broccoli Puss: And a fucking imbecile is a fucking imbecile. For a ready-to-hand example, look in the mirror. Presuming you actually have a reflection.

  46. 46
    Starfish says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think that there are numerous people who identify as non-binary now.

    I am still trying to grapple with the language around these concepts because in some cases really interesting histories are erased or confused by not discussing the time of transition in any way at all.

    However, I was in a school board meeting where someone was critical of the use of the word transgender probably for the reasons Brickley is here so what Brickley wrote was clarifying at least for me.

  47. 47

    So – can any of you defending not finishing college name that fellow who was so brilliant he built a fusor and had uranium ore in his garage? What other brilliant contributions has he made?

    And I’ll note that men telling women how they are supposed to react, or substituting their own reactions as the “correct” ones are mansplaining.

    And now I’ll shut the BJ window for a while.

  48. 48
    Pogonip says:

    @Bill Arnold: Of course open-plan offices hurt productivity, because the serfs can’t hear themselves think!

    (Can you tell I’ve been stuck in one of those for a while?)

  49. 49
    Ken says:

    a fusor or fuzor. Instructions for building one abound on the internet.

    The wikipedia article starts with “This article is missing information about safety.”

  50. 50
    debbie says:

    @sukabi:

    I hate when that happens. But it is nice seeing kids doing such good works. Almost makes me hopeful…

  51. 51
    Pogonip says:

    @West of the Rockies: Are the other kids picking up on the idea?

  52. 52
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    Cheryl & Cie. take note: Complete plans & instructions for building a functioning nuclear reactor in one’s backyard may be found on page 31 of this downloadable PDF. All yinz yoots lookin’ for a Sy Entz Fare project, go git ’em!

    (NB The rest of the book, long OOP, is roughly 1.77 LOLs/page. I believe the title & copyright pages aren’t played for laughs – but everyfuckingthing else is, including the ads on p. 81 and the “note on the typescript” on p. 82. Also some recurring gags, so it pays to read it cover to cover in a single sitting. Also note the Trumpian solar system anticipated by >35 yrs & shown at the bottom right of p. 16. [FTR my favorite uncle owned not one by two ’56 Chevy Bel Airs., :^D])

  53. 53

    Can you guys upvote my FP lol? T-loving trolls are giving it a thumbs down
    Red Headed League visits the Stable Genius

  54. 54
    Brachiator says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    And I’ll note that men telling women how they are supposed to react, or substituting their own reactions as the “correct” ones are mansplaining.

    I would never presume to tell anyone how they should react, nor do I think that my own reactions are “correct.”

    But I simply note that I have always been alienated from a lot of social bullshit that is supposed to be generically or typically male. What other people make of this, or dismiss, is up to them.

    The question is always how do we get to a discussion that goes beyond defending turf and standing our ground.

  55. 55
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    @Xavier Onassis: Beat me to it!

    Hey, maybe he was trying to build an atomic clock to replace the one Trump is dumping.

  56. 56
    debbie says:

    @Pogonip:

    Eight years for me. One word: headphones! I’ve been in cubicles with low walls and high walls. I couldn’t get past the feeling that I was working inside a cardboard box (the color of the panels). I’m happy to be in a low-walled cubicle. Unfortunately, people park their baked goods close to my seat, so it’s hard to behave, dietarily speaking.

  57. 57
    Suzanne says:

    @A Ghost To Most: I have a bipolar trans kid. I am similarly answer-free.

  58. 58
    AThornton says:

    The general purpose Infotainment Mediums are not a source for science or technology news*. Never have been, never will be. Getting upset about it is semi-sortof-pointless

    Off the top of me head:

    The premiere journals: Science, Nature, Cell, Neuron, JAMA, etc. have their contents available on line, have to either subscribe or trot over to a library for a hard copy. Frontiers in Neuroscience and Plos One are high quality net-zines. So is ArXiv.org if you can stand to plow through the layers of cruft for the meat. Research Gate is a good resource for papers but has holes.

    And so on and so forth.

    * or for anything else. A different discussion

  59. 59
    Plato says:

    @Xavier Onassis:

    Touché. Wonder whatever happened to that kid. Did he move out of that bigoted TX school?

  60. 60
    Pogonip says:

    @debbie: In my open-plan office, getting one of the few cubicles was a step up.

    I used earplugs in the a.m., because I really hate those idiotic radio “morning shows,” and music in the afternoon.

    I can’t figure out why the morning shows are so popular. Who in the world would want to listen to two idiots giggling at each other’s “wit” at oh-dark-thirty? But they are quite profitable.

  61. 61
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Just Did and excellent meme. Here is an interesting Sci-Fi headline to give Patriarchy nightmares. GIRL INVENTS SUPER VERSION OF SALTPETER TO CURB MALE SEX DRIVE! FBI, NSA CIA, ON FULL ALERT!!!. (In the Army, we(male) recruits first rumor was that Saltpeter was put in the food to keep us from getting aroused)

  62. 62
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I will watch it when it streams. It captures the zeitgeist, has great music, a woman director and the protagonist is a Muslim young man from Dharavi .

    Woman director. Cool. The cast looked interesting. I didn’t know how famous or notable they were. I liked how the lead actress was wearing a red top, which made her stand out more when she was in a scene with other women.

    The movie is on its way to becoming a big hit. It is sensitively made. I have a feeling though that it won’t get as much love in the west as Danny Boyle’s poverty porn with a fantastical twist got.

    This is not fair. Indian movies have not broken out in America, and all foreign language films are tough to market. I hear that Netflix supports foreign language movies and TV shows, and for some reason South Korean soap operas are really hot.

    Indian movies often get reviewed on the UK Kermode and Mayo show.

    ETA: I am also tired of seeing the British Dev Patel as Hollywood’s token Indian.

    He’s in an upcoming movie about a terrorist attack in Mumbai.

    The Indian movie scene is bursting with talent and they can speak English too.

    And recently Hollywood has tried to use some Indian performers as crossover stars on American tv shows and movies.

  63. 63
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Pogonip:

    I’m not sure how the other kids are responding to the whole My Gender Is Unicorn concept. My daughter finds it rather strange. The school is regionally known as the LGBTQ school. It draws a lot of kids on the autism spectrum, too. It has high marks for academic rigor and inclusiveness. But Unicorn is definitely a bit unusual.

  64. 64

    Both Alia Bhatt and Ranveer Singh are huge at the box office and also known for their acting chops. Ranveer Singh was Khilji in Padmaavat and Bhatt played Sehmat Khan, the undercover spy in last year’s Raazi.

    @Brachiator: Quantico was pretty terrible, never saw it nor felt the need to.

    He’s in an upcoming movie about a terrorist attack in Mumbai.

    I saw that. He is not that great of an actor. Nor that good looking. But he is the designated Indian, for some reason. Probably to make the white protagonists looks better in comparison.

    This is not fair. Indian movies have not broken out in America, and all foreign language films are tough to market.

    True. But India through the British lens movies have been fairly successful, Slumdog Millionaire was huge and the Marigold Hotel movies were modestly successful too.

  65. 65
    NotMax says:

    @jacy

    how many ounces of flour were in a pound

    Pretty sure you meant to say cups*. Otherwise, same as the number of ounces of filet mignon in a pound: 16.

    The boy getting in good practice ahead of March 14?

    ;)

    *And absolutely number of cups doesn’t matter, and in point of fact may differ from type of flour to type of flour and also on how it is dispensed for measuring (scooped, poured, spooned, sifted).

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    the notion that open plan offices “increase collaboration and creativity” because it’s obvious.[1] And oh, they also lower real estate costs. The second is true. The first is false; the actual experimental studies(the one’s I’ve found at least) show that open plan offices decrease collaboration, and productivity.)

    Couldn’t agree more. Especially when they then insist that you adhere to their so-called “professional dress code.”

  67. 67
    germy says:

    Whatever happened child prodigy Ahmed, who invented a clock but his teacher was too Islamophobic to realize it was a clock? Has he invented anything else yet?— Ann Coulter (@AnnCoulter) January 8, 2019

    I have!! But I ain't sharing because the last time I shared my invention with someone that looks like you, I got arrested (referring to my english teacher) https://t.co/B0lgZYLAXq— Ahmed Mohamed (@IStandWithAhmed) February 22, 2019

  68. 68
    NotMax says:

    Boy, 14, creates nuclear reactor in his bedroom

    Funded by Russia.

    /someone had to say it :)

  69. 69
    eemom says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Slumdog Millionaire was huge

    What did you think of it, though?

    I personally thought it was a piece of godawful exploitative Hollywood shit….which is something I often think about hugely successful movies.

  70. 70

    @Brachiator: FYI. My rant was not directed at you or anyone in particular.

  71. 71
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Baud: This is one of those things where the 2nd “benefit” is the real clincher. They have a new floor plan that decreases costs, so it’s being pushed HARD. There’s a lot of consultants and other related folks who want this to be true, and a lot of management who ALSO want it to be true. “Look at this thing I did! It saved lots of money AND made things better!” is highly attractive.

    And it’ll take a management generation or two to fix, because reversing the decision would involved those people admitting they were wrong – and they’re the ones in charge.

  72. 72

    @eemom: I hated it. It was terrible. There are far better movies made about similar subjects in India, that are more thoughtful and better told narratives. It sucked at multiple levels and was pretty cartoonish. A. R. Rahman’s score was pretty mediocre too. He has done far better work elsewhere.

    ETA: Irfan Khan was the only thing about the Slum Dog movie that worked for me.

  73. 73
    Tom Levenson says:

    I bet you would have been impressed if the machine were a flux capacitor.

    [ducks]

  74. 74
    JanieM says:

    @NotMax:

    Pretty sure you meant to say cups*.

    Gee, I thought jacy was making a joke.

    *****

    Getting upset about it is semi-sortof-pointless

    Just in case anyone was worried that we’d run out of people telling us how we’re supposed to feel about things…..

  75. 75
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    I wish there was a meteor that hit Mar a Largo last night. They a Trump Party with all the Whiteness and Botox you can stand. NBC news was practically slobbering on the coverage.

  76. 76
    Windpond says:

    What is the purpose of the Larry King Live auto play video? I have Hughesnet Satellite Internet at a remote location in Alaska with a very limited data plan. Just a few seconds of any autoplay which I can’t seem to turn off in Preferences, kills my daily data allowance.

  77. 77
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Brachiator:

    I was just about to mention that. I loved that the filmmakers deliberately misled us using multiple cultural markers, not just gender, but I don’t want to ruin the moment for anyone else by saying what they were.

  78. 78
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    @Tom Levenson: You have to fall off the toilet hanging a picture and hit your head for that to happen!

    Sheeesh! Scientists.

  79. 79
    Pogonip says:

    @West of the Rockies: I would expect mischievous kids (not that I was one of those) to have a lot of fun annoying the teachers with this. Today the girl you described is Unicorn, Unicorn, Unicorn and I’m Pogonip, Pogonip, Pogonip and Emily is Closet, Closet, Closet and Ethan is Squeegee, Squeegee, Squeegee and so on through the class. Tomorrow, we all switch nouns, and again next day, and again the day after that… 😈

    I give it till Columbus Day for the school to decide all students will be referred to and addressed by the names on their birth certificates.

  80. 80

    @Cheryl Rofer: My take as an actual trans person…

    It’s not a huge thing, but referring to “boy,” girl” and “trans kid” is subtlety othering, akin to the in the way that you reacted to “lone (white, male) genius” In this case, implicitly categorizes the trans kid as a third gender — which most trans kids don’t see themselves as. Could have been avoid by using trans boy/trans girl, or by using “trans kids” which encompasses both.

    FWIW, “transgender,” “non-binary” and “gender non-conforming” are three related, but separate (albeit with some fuzzy boundaries) concepts and identities.

    “Gender non-conforming” refers to gender expression, and cisgender folks can be gender non-conforming: tomboy, butch lesbians and femmy gay men being classic examples. Folks who are “visibly” trans or non-binary generally are inherently seen as GNC because of being “visibly.”

    Non-binary folks typically feel like they may encompass more than one gender, or none, or be “gender fluid” where their gender may vary at different times. Some are happy with the sex they were assigned at birth, some aren’t (e.g. among the NB people who were assigned female at birth that I know, a number of them are unhappy having breasts and desire a more androgynous body.) These days coming out as NB can be akin to coming out as bisexual — for many it’s a destination in itself, for others it’s a way station to their final identity.

    “Trans” and “transgender” has a dual meaning. It was originally coined an intentionally broad umbrella term to encompass a variety of identities — and “trans” still has more of that connotation (it’s sometimes written as “trans*” with asterisk intending to convey this). In practice, both terms have often become synonymous with gender “transitioners,” i.e. those who social transition to living full-time (or sometimes part-time) as a gender different than the sex they were assigned at birth. When we talk about “trans kids” this is the group that we’re usually referring to, i.e. trans boys and trans girls, such as Jazz Jennings.

    All of which is a long way of saying the sentence could easily between written as, “as opposed to a girl or trans/gender nonconforming kids” to be more inclusive – “trans/gender nonconforming” being the widely-used broader umbrella term these days.

    The more you know…

  81. 81
    Another Scott says:

    @MisterForkbeard: An episode of Freakonomics was rebroadcast today on just this topic: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/open-offices/

    The more you learn about the productivity and happiness of office workers in different settings, the more obvious it is that one key ingredient is often overlooked: choice. Some employees really might be better off at home; others might prefer the cubicle; and some might thrive in an open office. You also have to acknowledge that no one environment will be ideal for every task.

    You mean everyone isn’t the same?!?!!!!ONE

    ;-)

    I normally dislike the show, but the bits and pieces of it that I heard seemed to be fairly well done.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  82. 82

    @Sister Golden Bear: Thanks for taking the time to explain.

  83. 83
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    FYI. My rant was not directed at you or anyone in particular.

    No worries.

    Also, I liked Slumdog Millionaire. But he’ll, I would love to see a talented Indian director do a Marvel super hero movie.

  84. 84
    Pogonip says:

    @Baud: Don’t get me started on that. If the company wants to tell me how to dress they ought to be legally required to pay me a uniform allowance. These “professional dress” policies get expensive, especially if you’re female.

    Funny feminist organizations have not pursued outlawing these policies.

  85. 85
    Brachiator says:

    @Another Scott:

    others might prefer the cubicle; and some might thrive in an open office.

    This is kinda dumb. How many companies could afford flexible office plans that included your choice of cubicle or open office?

  86. 86
    Kent says:

    @Sister Golden Bear: Thanks for this. As a teacher this sort of thing comes up with ever increasing frequency. I always feel like I’m a step behind on the language issues. It can seem like triviality to those of us who are not affected. But it can be a big deal to those actually affected so I think it is important to get right. Basic human decency.

  87. 87
    jacy says:

    @NotMax:

    No, he wanted to know ounces. I told him he should figure out how many cups he needed, not ounces. I have no idea what prompted him to ask……

    But the pies look delicious — we went and got some whipped cream and will taste them after dinner!

  88. 88
    Pogonip says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: Cole was hanging a picture?

  89. 89
    Miss Bianca says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    True. But India through the British lens movies have been fairly successful, Slumdog Millionaire was huge and the Marigold Hotel movies were modestly successful too.

    To say nothing of “Bride and Prejudice”. (I really like the soundtrack on that one, btw).

  90. 90
    moonbat says:

    @Pogonip: I teach at university and most of my students are under 40. And I can tell you that a lot of my female students have been led to believe just that — that STEM is male dominated for a good reason.

  91. 91
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Suzanne:

    My nephew on my husband’s side of the family has both ADHD and bipolar disorder, which made his teen years tons of fun. He’s cishet, which at least removed one stressor.

    He had a difficult enough time in his late teen years that he eventually agreed to finish high school at a boarding school that specializes in kids with psychiatric issues, but he did very well with the caring professionals there, brought his grades up to get on the honor roll for the first time, and came out as a fully-functioning adult. Or at least as fully-functioning as the average guy in his late teens is. 😉

    It’s going to be a pain in the ass for you to find the right professionals to help your Spawn become a healthy and happy adult, but it CAN be done. Just keep listening to him and making sure that he feels comfortable telling you how he feels even when he knows you won’t be thrilled to hear it. I know it’s the lot of a mother to feel like your kid’s problems are all your fault, but bipolar disorder has a strong genetic component and gender identity issues seem to be biologically based, so your only fault would be in not accepting that and trying to fight biology.

    We’ve all been hearing about both of your Spawns for years, so you know that we all wish them and you and your family nothing but the best.

  92. 92
    Jay says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    As a push back by the TBQ part of the community, against peoples efforts to “define” them by gender, sexual identity and sexual preferences,

    Many of them have pushed back by defining themselves in open terms, such as Unicorn, Me, Tree, Spirit, etc.

    They are pushing their preference that when people want to stick a pronoun on them, that people ask them which pronoun the prefer, first.

  93. 93
    Pogonip says:

    @Kent: And nearly everything is a big deal to teenagers. They take things, and themselves, so seriously. I know—I used to be one.

  94. 94

    @Miss Bianca: If you like them then you would like Hindi and other Indian language movies. The real deal, instead of the British imitation, the curry powder of movies.

  95. 95
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jacy:

    I know the answer to this! Bakers have started measuring flour and other dry ingredients by weight (ounces or cups) instead of volume (cups) because it’s more accurate. Next time, he should look for a similar recipe on the internet that goes by weight and use that as his guide.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    J R in WV says:

    @Baud:

    …Especially when they then insist that you adhere to their so-called “professional dress code.”

    At my former shop which I retired from they had kinda a dress code, no “blue jeans” without noticing that jeans come in like a dozen colors, so tan or green. Also many people wore neckties — but I bought polo shirts with agency logos on, which passed for formal office wear for anything that didn’t involve the legislature visiting, which didn’t happen.

    Also tee shirts with the logo, sold for the annual summer picnic, a diff color each year, so on informal Friday, sometimes I wore one of those tees. Everyone knew I was paid for my thoughts, not for my appearance.

  98. 98
    Mnemosyne says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    They completely re-did the main building for my division, and one interesting thing they did was put sliding doors on the cubicles so people can close them when they’re deep into a project and don’t want to be disturbed. That seems like a decent compromise if companies are going to insist on cubicles.

    They also created a few “phone booths” on each floor so you can take your cell phone in there when you need to make a private and/or personal call.

  99. 99
    Doug R says:

    Oscar nominated for best animated short “Animal Behaviour” is available for FREE on the NFB website
    https://www.nfb.ca/

  100. 100
    germy says:

    @Mnemosyne: Are the booths also charging stations?

  101. 101
    Pogonip says:

    @moonbat: Did you mean they think it’s male dominated, or that it is and that they think there’s a good reason?

    When I read one of the ubiquitous discrimination- in-tech articles I often get the impression the author does not understand the difference between discrimination and shit-testing. Human nature being what it is, NO group is going to accept you wholeheartedly, especially if you’re the first [whatever] to join, without testing you. The powers-that-be may force the shit-testing underground but they can’t make it go away, because it’s human.

  102. 102
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I saw that. He is not that great of an actor. Nor that good looking. But he is the designated Indian, for some reason. Probably to make the white protagonists looks better in comparison.

    Patel has won or been nominated for a BAFTA, Oscar, SAG award, Golden Globe and even an NAACP Image Award.

    He carried the movie Lion. All the white performances were secondary and in support of his performance.

    I couldn’t get past the stupidity of Quantico despite the charisma and screen presence of the lead actress.

  103. 103

    @Dorothy A. Winsor, @Kent: Happy to help.

    @Jay: I have no idea what the ” TBQ part of the community part of the community” is, and my Google-fu doesn’t turn up anything. Can you clarify?

    people ask them which pronoun they prefer, first

    Let me point out another subtle bit of unintentional othering I commonly see among allies: cisgender people have “pronouns,” trans/GNC have “preferred pronouns.” The correct way to put it is “what pronouns does someone (trans or cisgender) use?”

  104. 104

    @germy: As a science kitteh, I hang my head in shame.

  105. 105

    @Brachiator: Perhaps I should give him another chance. He really got on my nerves in the Marigold Hotel movie.

  106. 106
    eemom says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There are far better movies made about similar subjects in India, that are more thoughtful and better told narratives.

    Any recommendations?

    Love good films about other cultures. Hate Hollywood schlock.

  107. 107
    germy says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I can just imagine the “experts” (characters) they’ll dig up.

  108. 108
    debbie says:

    @jacy:

    Every baking show is now saying to weigh everything because it’s more accurate than measuring cups/spoons. Maybe that’s what he was referring to?

  109. 109
    moonbat says:

    @Pogonip: They don’t have to “think” it at this university because it is male dominated. What I am saying it that they have been discouraged throughout their education from thinking they have a chance of success in the STEM fields. And I also have come across some male STEM majors who have never been “Shit Tested” in their lives, but probably should have been.

  110. 110
    chopper says:

    on one hand it is pretty impressive that this kid created a fusor in his garage.

    on the other hand, it happened primarily cause the kid had a shit-ton of money to sink into this particular project. how a 12-year-old gets the money to buy all this stuff i have no idea.

  111. 111
    Mnemosyne says:

    I have to go do some revisions to the first 10 pages of my novel and re-submit them for a second critique by 9 pm tonight. Ugh. I may pop back in later and see how the Oscar critiquing goes.

    I really want Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse to win for Best Animated Feature and Ruth E. Carter to win Best Costume Design for Black Panther. I also don’t want Green Book to win any major awards, like writing or directing or (God forbid) Best Picture. Other than that, I have no strong opinions.

  112. 112
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    @germy:

    White House to set up panel to counter climate change consensus, officials say

    I wish I could say I was shocked or even surprised. Alas…

    You can’t fix stupid.

  113. 113
    Pogonip says:

    Except for the elusive ninja, I just got all the rare cats in Neko Atsume! Grrrrl power! 👏

    The ninja showed up today, but NOT while I was looking at the phone, so I have to wait a month to take another crack at him. I’ll get him. (Patience, Grasshopper.)

    Do any of you play Neko Atsume?

  114. 114
  115. 115
    Seanly says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    I’d argue that 99% of companies don’t care about collaboration or interaction. The BS they spin about those goals is just happy horseshit they tell employees (and themselves) to help justify the drastic reduction in office square footage per employee.

  116. 116
    germy says:

    @The Midnight Lurker:

    I wish I could say I was shocked or even surprised. Alas…

    You can’t fix stupid.

    I keep getting a mental image of one of the panel members wearing a propeller beanie cap.

  117. 117
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    He was also good in The Man Who Knew Infinity, about the Indian mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan, even though the movie is kinda conventional and predictable.

    ETA. Even though I suspect most here don’t care about it, we could probably use an Oscars thread. I think that 2018 was a very good year for movies.

  118. 118
    Mike in NC says:

    @germy: “Scientists” to be on panel will include Dennis Rodman and Gary Busey.

  119. 119
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Pogonip: My brilliant niece – who won an NSA fellowship – just left her Ph.d. program in chemical engineering at a Major University with a terminal masters degree because of the relentless boys-only bullshit that went on there, led by the faculty. She tried changing her dissertation advisor and that didn’t help. I met her roommate, a female in a different engineering doctoral field: same story. So grrl power messages only go so far against male-dominated fields that adamantly assert their hold on real power.

  120. 120
    Starfish says:

    @Pogonip: You seem like you are not well-read on this topic.

    Certain STEM fields are male-dominated, and men associate their dominance with talent or difficulty of the field.

    I have no clue what you mean by shit-testing. There are men that cannot stand the idea of a woman being better than them at something so they will make the test harder to prove to the woman how superior they are in the field. It is wild, and there are numerous, numerous stories women have told me about programming interviews that involved nonsense like expecting women to tell them all the flags that can go with “ls” for a system administration job. (“ls” has many flags. No one has them all memorized. There are a few important ones.)

    Not being a woman, you would have never experienced a male interviewer trying to dominate you just because he wants to show you his technical superiority or not have women on the team or whatever.

    I have experienced it in a number of silly instances. “Hey, I do not know a lot of database stuff deeply.” Then I am asked ten questions about databases including things on inner joins just because when it is a more general programming position and not specifically all about databases. This nonsense is silly.

    Also, when all of your interviewers are men, and people treat you this way, you assume that maybe you do not belong.

    How do I know that men are doing this to dominate though? Some that I have been close to have told me so. For example, a number of years after I taught a boyfriend how to use a soldering iron, he apologized to me about being so rude to me while I was teaching him how to do this. He could not handle that I was better at it than he was because he felt “men should be good at this.” In reality, I had taken an electronics class in high school and had learned then so I was not magical. I had just been introduced to the concept earlier and had just had more practice.

  121. 121
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Pogonip:

    The powers-that-be absolutely CAN make shit-testing go away by firing the ringleaders and breaking up the clique.

    This is on a level with saying that there will always be bullies, so schools shouldn’t intervene when kids get bullied. If shit-testing at your workplace or school is limiting who works or goes there, then your workplace or school is more interested in shit-testing than they are in doing their fucking JOBS.

  122. 122
    germy says:

    @Mike in NC: I still say Gary Busey is Eric’s father.

  123. 123
    Juice Box says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Ha! I went to Georgia Tech for a year (hated it). You should have seen me shoot out of a women’s bathroom the first day I was there. It had urinals on the wall and I thought that I had misread the sign on the door. It would have been hard to misread the attitude toward women.

  124. 124
    Pogonip says:

    @moonbat: Probably everybody should be. It’s most people’s only path towards genuine acceptance.

    I’m just glad I was not born into a society where the shit-testing consists of forcing you to wear grass gloves with angry bullet ants woven into them. In “Venomous,” Christie Wilcox describes some first-world guys who bravely gave it a try. One fellow lasted 5 minutes, but paid for it. She also describes getting home, finding a dead bullet ant in her laundry, and, for some reason, leaving it on a table overnight. Next morning it was gone and she never did find it. Brrrr.

    P.S. The wonderful Cincinnati, Ohio zoo has a large colony of bullet ants, if you’re brave enough to view them. They are in the invertebrate collection, not, at least the last I heard, in the food court.

  125. 125
    Pogonip says:

    @Juice Box: It was probably a converted men’s room where they didn’t bother to take the urinals out. I worked in an old plant with several of those. Startled a lot of us, too!

  126. 126
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @danielx: I remember being about 12 years old and thinking “all the Saturday morning cartoons are crap now, except Bugs Bunny.” Clearly a young curmudgeon in training.

  127. 127
    Pogonip says:

    @Mnemosyne: And then what happens when the new clique forms? And the one after that? And the one after that? As the ST is forced further and further underground, it becomes more and more vicious. Better to keep it out in the open where it can be kept under some kind of control. Remember when schools ignored bullying? As far as the school was concerned, there was no bullying. Nothing to see here. Now the issue’s out in the open. Things are better.

  128. 128
    Starfish says:

    David Hahn was one of the first nuclear reactor kids that I remember, and his life was sad. He could not work with nuclear stuff for the government because he had received a ton of radiation as a kid.

  129. 129
    jacy says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Well, when I walked through the rubble that used to be the kitchen, I saw he had the kitchen scale out, so hopefully he figured it out!

    (I told him to pull out the old, foolproof Good Housekeeping cookbook that I’ve had since I was a kid, but I think he ignored me and pulled recipes off the Interwebs.)

  130. 130
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Brachiator:

    One of the many pleasures of the animated Into the Spderverse movie is that one of Spider-Man’s chief villains is rebooted as a woman.

    And, remarkably, I have seen nobody complaining about this, even though it’s one of the most iconic male characters in the Spider-Man mythos. Probably just because it’s this brilliant surprise and the character herself is just inherently great. It was the one big twist that they managed to completely keep under wraps–if it had been spoiled in advance there probably would have been sexist whining.

    …I have seen a few racists complaining about there even being a MIles Morales movie, but they’re people who don’t know much about the comics. Instead I see more people explaining that Miles isn’t a stupid diversity thing whereas [something else] is, and trying to analyze the difference. Folks, the difference is just that Miles was introduced in the comics years ago, and you got used to him being there. When that first happened there was whining you wouldn’t believe, right-wing political pundits weighing in about PC gone mad, the works.

  131. 131
    Another Scott says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: My J was in that boat. She left her physics PhD program at one university and finished at another, bu[t] it took her about 5 years longer than it should have. it’s a horrible problem.

    J’s experience was 20+ years ago. I would have hoped that it was better now, but it’s really not surprising if it isn’t. Too many physics faculty and students seem to take pride in their misogyny.

    :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  132. 132
    Drive by Poster says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn

    ^ The Radioactive Boy Scout

    Added : and while my post was in moderation hell another beat me to it. *rages*

  133. 133
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Pogonip:

    As the ST is forced further and further underground, it becomes more and more vicious. Better to keep it out in the open where it can be kept under some kind of control.

    You seem very confused. So kids should be allowed to openly bully other kids as long as the administration knows it’s happening? After all, if the administration tries to step in and punish the bullies, it will just go underground, so they need to let the bullying continue as long as the bullies keep them informed.

  134. 134
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Pogonip: I’m sorry, but that comment about shit-testing really upsets me. Would you find that behavior ok in a race-based context? Further, I went through that kind of shit-testing in grad school (humanities) at another Major University, also having won a major fellowship, and decided that passing the shit wasn’t worth it, because I knew I’d be beholden to these same shitty shits not only to get my degree, but also to (1) get a tenure track position anywhere and (2) actually make tenure. Nearly all the women in my cohort made the same decision. So the shit test did its job: it drove us out. Just think of the collective talent lost through shit testing over the years.

    It makes me beyond furious that my niece went through possibly worse shit-testing forty fucking years later.

  135. 135
    Jay says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    I was trying to shorthand off of LGTBQ with out diving too deep into all the possible variations of how someone might self identify, and try to quickly and clearly point out that some people are pushing back by rejecting attempts to be defined with simple pronouns.

    So Unicorn is Unicorn. That is her name, her gender, her sexual identity, and her sexual preference, etc.

    I’m fine with Unicorn being Unicorn.

  136. 136

    @germy: There is a retired crackpot physicist from Princeton no less. This stupid panel is his idea according to the Washpost article you linked.

  137. 137
    Brachiator says:

    @Starfish:

    Not being a woman, you would have never experienced a male interviewer trying to dominate you just because he wants to show you his technical superiority or not have women on the team or whatever.

    Human beings are complex, never more so when they are being shitty human beings.

    I knew a white woman who was very pretty, who rightly objected to being leered at and dismissed by her bosses. And yet she sided with these bosses and fought to keep blacks and Hispanics out of her department and subjected them to the same type of abuse that she fought against.

    She even married a man she knew was deeply racist. I guess she knew what kind of man would make her happy.

  138. 138
    Suzanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: Thanks. Spawn is a great kid. We’re getting it figured out, though there are ups and downs. He has a therapist he likes, and we just found a new psychiatrist he likes, as well. He is also on some new meds that he feels are much more effective and stabilizing.

    I don’t want to talk much about the Spawns here anymore, as there is one toxic troll-y person who I try to avoid.

  139. 139

    Was not expecting the thread to be this tense!

  140. 140
    Pogonip says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: I don’t find it “ok” in any context. I acknowledge that it exists, and will continue to exist as long as people exist, and would like to keep it under some kind of control.

    Not knowing anyone involved, I cannot speak to how much talent was lost, but if it’s makes you feel any better, we’ve all been picked on. Every last human soul of us. Which tells me the shit-testing instinct runs very deep indeed, as we all agree it’s awful, but we (humanity in general, not the two of us) keep on doing it. And what sense does that make?

    Has anyone else noticed that the cliques are a lot more vicious in office jobs than non-office jobs? I think that’s because much office work is busywork, not easily quantifiable. Whereas once you’ve proved you can climb the phone pole in a subzero blizzard and fix the wires, that’s pretty much it. Either you can do it or you can’t.

    On the other hand, I was once harassed so viciously in a factory that my husband had to beat the living shit out of the ringleader to get them all to back off, so maybe it’s just the luck of the draw.

  141. 141
    Starfish says:

    @Brachiator: In addition to doing that, some women who have accomplished something in a field will then go work really hard to keep other women out of the field or to protect their token status in the field.

    Some advisor who was really kind to my spouse and helped him grow in his field was known for being mean to women taking her classes. Another friend who has a Ph.D. in that field told me that “yeah, this advisor who took your spouse under her wing was really mean to women in her classes.”

  142. 142
    Pogonip says:

    @Mnemosyne: No, my point was that “We know there are bullies and we will do what we can to stop them” is going to lead to better results than “Ain’t no bullying here, just ignore that fat kid who cries every day at recess, everything’s fine here.”

    Do you understand now?

  143. 143

    What is shit-testing? Google is just giving me misogynistic “pick-up artist” stuff.

  144. 144
    Cermet says:

    @Obvious Russian Troll: Late in the thread but in answer to your question – very unsafe due to x-ray radiation produced and the very lethal operating voltages used. As for the gamma and neutrons from nuclear fusion, those are fairly harmless. I know, I’ve built these devices and measured their typical levels. They are called fusors and are more toys and hardly serious devices. But do produced fusion. They have been around since the fifties. With $10 K they are easy to build with off the self equipment one can get off e-bay.

  145. 145

    @Major Major Major Major: A person who doesn’t know what they are talking about is opining about women in science and contradicting their lived experience including our FPer Cheryl Rofer. I would ignore them.

  146. 146
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Pogonip:

    That’s pretty much the exact opposite of what you originally said, but okay.

    @Starfish:

    Some people get very invested in viewing themselves as singular people who are above the common run of whatever group they might otherwise fit into. When they do, they spend a lot of time getting rid of anyone from their group who threatens their special snowflake status, particularly when someone comes along who is smarter than they are. I’ve heard of it happening from a racial or cultural standpoint as well.

  147. 147
    Brachiator says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Folks, the difference is just that Miles was introduced in the comics years ago, and you got used to him being there. When that first happened there was whining you wouldn’t believe, right-wing political pundits weighing in about PC gone mad, the works.

    The sexist wing of this bunch of morons are trying to bury Captain Marvel with tons of preemptive negative reviews. And most have not even seen the movie yet, which has been screened for critics. But they have decided that the main superheroes must be white males, and all women must shut up and never say that women and girls deserve their heroes as well (and boys can like them, too).

    One odd thing. The studio and the media seemed to downplay the fact that one of the directors of Spiderverse is black, or want to dive deep into his interest in animation.

  148. 148

    @Brachiator: Dev Patel was miscast as Ramanujan in my opinion.

  149. 149
    Pogonip says:

    @Pogonip: P.S. The foreman had totally ignored several complaints, with witnesses. One of those ain’t-nothing-happening-here types. Had the foreman done his job, my husband would not have spent two weeks walking around with bruised swollen hands and SIX weeks with a broken toe! (In the excitement of the moment he foolishly kicked the bad guy’s skull with his toe, as if it were a ball. Don’t ever do that.)

  150. 150
  151. 151
    smedley the uncertain says:

    @Windpond: I can pause it and it stops. would that help you?

  152. 152
    Starfish says:

    @Major Major Major Major: That could be the right place to look.

    I took it to mean the general problem of people giving hard or bad tests. That problem exists, but the problem that we are talking about in the context of gender is different. When you bring in the different identities, is not giving everyone the same test. It is being threatened by the possibility that someone will do better than you expect so you alter the test to be harder.

  153. 153
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Suzanne: Glad to hear. The combo of a therapist and psychiatrist he likes, along with more effective meds is amazing and bodes well for a better time. BP in adolescents is often particularly difficult to treat, even absent additional social stressors.

    Understandably you are hesitant to say much in a community that has obnoxious as well as kind members. I wish you and your family all the the best.

  154. 154
    Pogonip says:

    @Major Major Major Major: When the group tests you to see if you’ll fit in. Can easily evolve into bullying if mgmt or school doesn’t care.

    Group not welcoming you with tears of joy before you’ve done anything to prove you’re an asset is not shit-testing. It’s common sense.

  155. 155
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Brachiator:

    One odd thing. The studio and the media seemed to downplay the fact that one of the directors of Spiderverse is black, or want to dive deep into his interest in animation.

    Yeah, I noticed that. I think it was partly because they wanted to bank on the known names of Lord and Miller, who did not direct the movie (though one of them co-wrote it).

  156. 156

    @Starfish:

    That could be the right place to look.

    Pick-up artist blogs are never the right place to look!

  157. 157
    Pogonip says:

    @Suzanne: Don’t know about the bipolar part but I know there’s a site for liberal parents of trans kids called 4th Wave Now. They have links, too. Good luck!

  158. 158
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Pogonip:

    Wowsers.

  159. 159
    Brachiator says:

    Oscars opening with Queen. Cool

  160. 160
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Or, they are treating an artist as an artist. Not as a “black artist.”

  161. 161
    Starfish says:

    @Pogonip: That is a website for trans-exclusionary radical feminists.

  162. 162
    Starfish says:

    @Major Major Major Major: It is the right place to look to for people to avoid and why they should be avoided.

  163. 163
    Brachiator says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    One odd thing. The studio and the media seemed to downplay the fact that one of the directors of Spiderverse is black, or want to dive deep into his interest in animation.

    Yeah, I noticed that. I think it was partly because they wanted to bank on the known names of Lord and Miller, who did not direct the movie (though one of them co-wrote it).

    Yep. But once the movie started winning acclaim, this made less sense.

  164. 164
    Ruckus says:

    @Pogonip:
    The work retrograde trumper likes his morning talk show. Which is exactly as you said. Pointless baboons laughing at each other’s “jokes.” Which of course are almost never funny. In any way. And of course the morning talk show is followed by pablum radio, 70-80s rock that I’ve been forced to listen to at least 3 or 4 thousand times. A week. Since they first came out. It’s like a little bit of heaven is what it isn’t.

  165. 165
  166. 166
    Brachiator says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    Or they are treating an artist as an artist. Not as a “black artist.”

    No. They were kinda ignoring him altogether.

  167. 167
    Pogonip says:

    To the whiners (you know who you are): Sorry, ladies, I ain’t buying it. You are upper-middle-class college-educated females in America, among the most privileged people ever to walk this earth. Victimized you are not. We’ve all worked with women like you and I can tell you your colleagues roll their eyes when you walk by and the poor EEO lady cringes when she sees your number on her caller ID. So, on her behalf—

    Here’s a quarter. Call someone who cares.

    Sorry, Cole et al, but these spoiled rich whiners have taken over what was once a great site, made it their echo chamber, and I felt SOMEBODY finally had to give out with “Oh, please!” I feel much better now, thank you. Will leave no more comments, so the whine-fest may resume without further disruption. Enjoy yourselves.

  168. 168
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Brachiator:

    Sorry – misunderstood.

  169. 169
    Pogonip says:

    @Starfish: Not sure what trans exclusionary etc is, but if the site doesn’t have what Suzanne is looking for, it has links. I ran onto it once via a link and she jogged my memory. Don’t know diddly about trans teenagers myself , so don’t know all the sites and can’t offer any suggestions other than the one offered to all parents of teenagers, “ Find a doctor who also has teenagers so he will understand why you need your tranquilizer prescription renewals for several years straight.”

  170. 170
    Keith P. says:

    There have been at least a few stories of “girl genius”” inventing something that already exists. I wish I could remember some of them specifically…IIRC there was one girl who invented a way to clean up ocean trash. Another had some kind of laser invention (one of her parents is a physicist or something). I’d go dig them up, but I don’t really see the point….media loves stories for Monday morning about kids doing the darndest things.

  171. 171
    Starfish says:

    @Pogonip: That site is a site for people who want to bully their transgender kids, tell them they are mentally ill for being trans, and tell them not to transition. Does that make sense?

  172. 172
    smedley the uncertain says:

    @Sister Golden Bear: Thank you! Very helpful. A great ‘splainin.

  173. 173
    Ruckus says:

    @The Midnight Lurker:

    You can’t fix stupid.

    You can but it can get awfully messy.
    Which of course in this case did long ago and the project has so far been completely unsuccessful. Normal stupid can be mitigated, the level of stupid in this maladministration is heat of the sun stupid and that takes a lot more effort than it’s worth. Have to build rockets that are supposed to survive the heat of that sun and fire them all into said sun.

  174. 174
    Pogonip says:

    @Starfish: Are you saying you’re not a woman? Or that you thought I’m not? I am a woman. Got the Caesarean scar to prove it.
    😄

    It is admittedly hard to tell from the pseudonym “Pogonip,” so please don’t feel embarrassed. I will bear this confusion in mind and call myself “Pogonip (female)”
    from now on when joining Internet discussions. I was honestly not trying to conceal my sex (something I could never do in person, for two big reasons, so I don’t usually consider it). “Pogonip” was a fun word and no one on any of the sites I read was using it.

  175. 175

    @eemom: I recommend the last two movies I saw.
    Raazi and Newton were both good. Raazi is available for streaming Google Play, Amazon Prime and YouTube.
    and Newton is available on Amazon Prime.

  176. 176
    Pogonip says:

    @Starfish: Probably won’t be very long-lived, then; few parents want to make their unhappy kids unhappier.

  177. 177
    JanieM says:

    Will leave no more comments,

    Promises, promises.

  178. 178
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Wow, this thread went in a very ugly direction.

  179. 179
    Starfish says:

    @Pogonip: That site has been around for years.

  180. 180
    Jay says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Unfortunately it’s an example of how a nym can work a thread before blowing it up.

  181. 181
    smedley the uncertain says:

    @germy: Tin Foil

  182. 182
    Xavier Onassis says:

    @Seanly: Where I worked they seemed to value collaboration for its own sake, whether it had anything to do with our mission or not.

  183. 183
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It lacked the moral cander you bring to such discussions. So, now, please, elevate the conversation towards your lofty level …

  184. 184
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Broccoli Puss: The only step you need to take to make the world a better place is off a thousand-foot cliff without a safety harness. I recommend specifying cremation in your will – that way there is absolutely no chance any yo-yo from the 24-1/2 Century with an Acme PCR Reconstitution Kit could resurrect you.

  185. 185
    Mike G says:

    @Another Scott:

    The more you learn about the productivity and happiness of office workers in different settings, the more obvious it is that one key ingredient is often overlooked: choice.

    But imposing their diktat and giving you no choice isn’t a management bug, it’s a feature. Power relations.

  186. 186

    @Pogonip:

    To the whiners (you know who you are): Sorry, ladies, I ain’t buying it. You are upper-middle-class college-educated females in America, among the most privileged people ever to walk this earth. Victimized you are not. We’ve all worked with women like you and I can tell you your colleagues roll their eyes when you walk by and the poor EEO lady cringes when she sees your number on her caller ID. So, on her behalf—

    Here’s a quarter. Call someone who cares.

    Sorry, Cole et al, but these spoiled rich whiners have taken over what was once a great site, made it their echo chamber, and I felt SOMEBODY finally had to give out with “Oh, please!” I feel much better now, thank you. Will leave no more comments, so the whine-fest may resume without further disruption. Enjoy yourselves.

    I am speechless.

  187. 187
    Jerzy Russian says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am speechless.

    Same here.

  188. 188
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Pogonip: @Pogonip: Wow.

  189. 189
    E says:

    I will proclaim this the most ignorant post ever to appear on this site. Every 5 seconds of pop culture is littered with “women and girls are great and can do anything” messages, which is great. It was in fact a boy who created it. Was the story supposed to just refer him as “the child” throughout the story.

  190. 190
    Bnad says:

    this was an article I read 20 years ago about just this thing. I still remember it because it was a fascinating thing. I recall the poor (but smart) kid was irradiated to the extent that he can expect to get cancer before he gets old.

  191. 191
    Yutsano says:

    Curmudgeonly Post On Recurring Science Ignorance

    Heh. I knew we were gonna have an influence on you.

  192. 192

    @schrodingers_cat: I have regained my speech. That Pogonip thinks that the problem women face in the sciences can be boiled to down to petty office politics and personality clashes, tells me that she has never spent a single day in a research lab and has no idea what she is talking about.
    Crack open a book sometime and read about Rosalind Franklin, Lise Meitner , Maria Goeppert Meyer or Emmy Noether and how they were treated despite their game changing discoveries and even a Nobel Prize as in Meyer’s case.
    I could write a book about this. So I will just stop now.

  193. 193
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Thank you for this comment. It shouldn’t have been necessary, but sadly was. I’ll attest to the fact that the the vicious, sabotaging, undermining, subtle and not-at-all subtle misogynistic behaviors these women faced are not limited to STEM fields or the past. Witness the comments on this thread.

  194. 194
    J R in WV says:

    @WaterGirl:

    @jacy: now I want coconut cream pie. The first pie I ever made was homemade lemon meringue pie. Yum!

    I’m a pretty good baker. Once, way back when we kept yardbirds, and hence had fresh eggs on a daily basis, with those rich orange yolks you get with free-range birds, I made a from-scratch lemon meringue pie to finish a fancy stiry-fry dinner.

    That pie was a front-page model pie, the meringue was perfect, because from fresh egg whites, and the lemon-part was the most golden, most beautiful lemony-looking pie you’ve ever seen. When I served it to wife I was so proud of the success of that pie!

    Then we simultaneously put that first bite into our mouths, and both said “euuuwww!” because all the fresh-squeezed lemon juice was still in the pyrex cup beside the stove. It was beautiful, but there was no taste to speak of, just all the sugar intended to balance the lemony goodness still in the measuring cup.

    You could tell it was intended to be a lemon-meringue pie from the zest and lemon extract in the mix, but the actual taste was terrible. So sad. I still like tart fruit pies, tho, esp sour cherry pie!

    Otherwise, I too have seen misogyny in the tech fields, engineers asked to back down, etc. Sad, also too. I’m a curmudgeonly old white guy, and I love to work with other smart people, male and female, from anywhere. Don’t understand all the hate for people trying to do a good job!

  195. 195
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    I am also irritated by the recurring meme of boy science genius. It’s a message to girls that boys are the only ones who do this kind of thing or will get credit for it

    So the problem is our hack, lying sacks of shit press is too sexists and needs to make up absurd nonsense about girls too?

  196. 196
    The Moar You Know says:

    this was an article I read 20 years ago about just this thing. I still remember it because it was a fascinating thing. I recall the poor (but smart) kid was irradiated to the extent that he can expect to get cancer before he gets old.

    @Bnad: He’s dead now. Died a few years back, refused autopsy, all visible symptoms sure looked like radiation poisoning.

Comments are closed.