The WV Education Bill is Mostly Dead

Dropped off Steve at the groomers, and on my way home, I picked up a dozen donuts , a dozen paczki, some apples, and a case of bottled water and dropped it off at the teacher strike. By the time I got home, the bill was mostly dead:

The West Virginia House of Delegates voted today to kill an education omnibus bill that would have provided a pay raise to teachers and school workers, but would also have opened the door to charter schools and private education savings accounts, among other measures opposed by teachers and school workers unions.

The House vote to kill the bill, officially a vote to postpone it “indefinitely,” was 53-45. A previous motion to delay consideration of the bill until 4 p.m. failed by the same margin.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

The Senate will need to learn that the House of Delegates is a co-equal branch of government, and learn to work with them rather than trying to just ram shit through. Additionally, it is worth remembering that what they were trying to do was to take the teacher pay raise that Justice promised last year, and add in a bunch of egregious nonsense, and force it through that way. However, it ain’t just over yet:

BREAKING NEWS: It’s been brought to our attention that Delegate Steele (R-Raleigh) switched his vote at the last minute even after giving a passionate speech against those who killed SB 451 with the Motion to Postpone Indefinitely. It appears the Republicans still have some tricks up their sleeve, because according to parliamentary procedure the Republicans could technically move to make a Motion to Reconsider the Motion to Postpone Indefinitely which would bring the motion back to the floor for another vote. Only Delegates who voted in favor of the winning motion can move to reconsider it. In a process full of dirty parliamentary procedure tricks, it appears we aren’t out of the woods quite yet. Ultimately, we don’t think they can flip enough votes to change the outcome, but it’s a possibility….

They’re sneaky and shameless. In the years before social media and cell phones, they would have gotten away with it.






86 replies
  1. 1
    Jeffro says:

    I picked up a dozen donuts , a dozen paczki, some apples, and a case of bottled water and dropped it off at the teacher strike.

    No pepperoni rolls? I thought those were mandatory at all gatherings in West By God.

  2. 2
  3. 3
    Anonymous At Work says:

    Steele’s move isn’t a sneaky trick but a standard parliamentary one. Harry Reid used to do that all the time for cloture votes, so he could bring a bill back directly to the floor. That WV GOP thinks they can swing 4 more votes AND avoid the fallout of a teacher’s strike…that’s a different reality.

  4. 4
    tobie says:

    This is like a horror film. Just when you think you’ve managed to beat the demon coming after you, he comes after you again.

    I see in the daily annals of Republican shenanigans, that NC election workers have admitted that they tallied the early vote in Bladen County before election day, which is against the rules given the value of that information. Bladen County is the tip of the iceberg as far as I’m concerned. We’re merely seeing there what the GOP does nationally. On that note: I would love to see a full hand recount of Florida’s Senate and Gubernatorial races in 2018. Last time only rejected ballots were counted. That’s not enough IMO.

  5. 5
    J R in WV says:

    And what about the Teacher’s Pay Raise, which was also part of this otherwise despicable “Education” Bill???

    Strike until a clean pay raise is passed? Hope so.

  6. 6
    Brachiator says:

    As Coroner I must aver,
    I thoroughly examined her.
    And she’s not only merely dead,
    she’s really most sincerely dead.

    — Wizard of Oz

  7. 7
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Good luck to the WV teachers. Hope they get the pay raise they deserve without any strings attached.

  8. 8
    trollhattan says:

    O/T but holy shit, this is bad even for Alabama.

    The editor and publisher of a local paper in Alabama is under fire for penning an editorial calling for mass lynchings by the Ku Klux Klan (KKK). The opinion piece ran in his print-only newspaper, the Democrat-Reporter, last Thursday, Goodloe Sutton confirmed on Tuesday. A short editorial piece published without a byline on 14 February was entitled: “Klan needs to ride again.”

    “Time for the Ku Klux Klan to night ride again,” the article said, referencing the KKK’s terrorising raids through black communities. “Democrats in the Republican Party and Democrats are plotting to raise taxes in Alabama… This socialist-communist ideology sounds good to the ignorant, the uneducated, and the simple-minded people.”

    “Seems like the Klan would be welcome to raid the gated communities up there.”

    “Democrats in the Republican Party and Democrats”?

  9. 9
    waspuppet says:

    The Senate will need to learn that the House of Delegates is a co-equal branch of government, and learn to work with them rather than trying to just ram shit through.

    Republicans don’t think any branch of government controlled by Democrats is equal. By definition. Even if they controlled it two years ago. They will, of course, change their minds the next time they control it. Cf. The US House, The Only Branch That Matters 2011-2017.

  10. 10
    Miss Bianca says:

    @trollhattan: yeah, speaking of “the ignorant, the uneducated, and the simple-minded”..

    I wonder if he routinely refers to his own paper as “The Democrat Republican”.

  11. 11
    Brachiator says:

    @trollhattan:

    With Trump’s election, racists feel comfortable letting it all hang out.

  12. 12
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @trollhattan: Tax hikes are communism is another good one. too.

  13. 13
    Mary G says:

    I learn so much on this blog. I had to Google paczki and now I want some. Your state senator sent me a lovely handwritten thank you note after the election.

  14. 14
    ruemara says:

    They’re just waiting to see if your focus will be on something else soon.

  15. 15
    J R in WV says:

    @trollhattan:

    And Mr Sutton pretends the KKK wasn’t a racist fascist organization by stating without providing any evidence that black folks “borrowed” their former owners’ robes and horses to ride against those who endangered the black community. Like HELL they did!

    Encouraging others to riot is a crime for a reason — people did it a lot back in the decades around the early 1900s, and black communities always suffered for that rioting. This Goodloe Sutton character should learn about federal prosecution for such crimes… perhaps after Trump’s administration is in jail instead of in power?

  16. 16
    John Cole says:

    @waspuppet: The house of delegates is controlled by the Republicans. That’s how bad this bill is.

  17. 17
    Mary G says:

    RIP Don Newcombe.

  18. 18
    ruemara says:

    @J R in WV: I like how the KKK didn’t kill but a few people and they weren’t violent except when they needed to be. From a guy calling on them to raid DC and lynch people. Brilliant.

  19. 19
    Elizabelle says:

    @J R in WV: Yeah, that part leapt out at me. Borrowing the former owners’ robes …

    Lord dog, that sounds like an alternative history written by Quentin Tarantino. WTF is Sutton going on about?

    I predict full retirement very soon for Mr. Sutton’s career as a publisher.

  20. 20
    Brachiator says:

    because according to parliamentary procedure the Republicans could technically move to make a Motion to Reconsider the Motion to Postpone Indefinitely which would bring the motion back to the floor for another vote

    Sounds like the Republicans have committed an illegal motion. Isn’t that a 15 yard penalty?

  21. 21
    takebakawashi says:

    “Only Delegates who voted in favor of the winning motion can move to reconsider it.”

    Harry Reid did the equivalent in the U.S. Senate a lot when he was Majority Leader… I think this is standard and expected.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/02/17/why-is-harry-reid-always-voting-against-his-own-plans/

    ETA: I see Anonymous At Work got there first.

  22. 22
    Yarrow says:

    @trollhattan:
    If you go to Mikayla Burns’ Twitter feed she’s documenting what’s happening in response to her posting about this guy’s KKK editorial. Awards are being taken away, he’s being removed from a Mass Comm. and Journalism Hall of Fame, etc.
    https://twitter.com/mikaylasburns

  23. 23
    rikyrah says:

    Glad that it’s mostly dead, Cole.

  24. 24
    Aleta says:

    I believe that Maine was well on the way to open carry on campuses; and increased attacks on public schools, teachers and unions; and more reductions in mental health support and shelters. The change in governor has countered that for now, but it’s chilling what can happen (to any state) if backers with dark money decide the state is vulnerable to putting their front man in power.

  25. 25
    TriassicSands says:

    The Republicans have done a fine job of wrecking our political system. They’ve also been hard at work trying to destroy our public education system. And we shouldn’t forget what they’ve done to our health care system.

    Gee, you’d almost think they have a problem with systems. Or civilization.

  26. 26
    Kraux Pas says:

    @ruemara:

    I like how the KKK didn’t kill but a few people and they weren’t violent except when they needed to be. From a guy calling on them to raid DC and lynch people. Brilliant.

    Take a moment to consider which groups this writer may grant or deny status as a person in his view.

  27. 27
    Aleta says:

    @Yarrow: I think he needs to be hauled in for encouraging terrorism and questioned under oath about his connections and finances.

  28. 28
    smintheus says:

    OT, Klobuchar is running basically as a 60s era Republican: Reform? Yes eventually, but just not now.

  29. 29
    Aleta says:

    @J R in WV: do you have a link to where he said that?

  30. 30
    Gravenstone says:

    @trollhattan:

    Democrats in the Republican Party

    Purity purges for everyone!

  31. 31
    scott (the other one) says:

    @smintheus: It’s 2019. Good luck winning Democratic primaries with that approach.

  32. 32
    trollhattan says:

    @Yarrow:
    Glad to see there’s more than a flash of pushback; guy’s a piece of work but obviously playing to an audience he knows is receptive. His pics do look like he’s from Central Casting (editor voted most likely to be mistaken for Paul LePage).

    “Know what would be great? Nazis! If we had Nazis we could solve our immigrant problems real quick!”

  33. 33
    The Moar You Know says:

    I predict full retirement very soon for Mr. Sutton’s career as a publisher.

    @Elizabelle: I do not. Read up on Linden a bit. At a minimum, he’s perfect for his location and customers.

    Linden is special: maintaining a 100% legally segregated school system in the year 2017 is something I’d have thought impossible, but they’ve done it. If they put that amount of brainpower, effort and cunning into transportation I’d be driving a fusion-powered hovercar right now.

  34. 34
    Gravenstone says:

    As long as we’re on the topic of bad legislation/decisions; our old pal Justice Thomas is openly advocating that a 1964 court decision making it more difficult for public figures to sue for libel/slander be reconsidered. I’m guessing Ginni took some “suggestions” back home with her when she and her merry band of medievalists were trying to convince Trump to take society back to the Dark Ages a couple of weeks ago.

  35. 35
    trollhattan says:

    @The Moar You Know:
    Hey now, I’m first in line for my hovercar!

  36. 36
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Elizabelle: he owns the paper, which he inherited from his father. I was pondering last night what sort of boycott might work against its advertisers. But it may be just Hobby Lobby and Chik-Fil-A and local racist businesses already.

    Steve at Whole Foods in Conshohocken, PA

  37. 37
    jl says:

    Surprised but pleased that Cole survived the Steve threat this morning.

  38. 38
    The Moar You Know says:

    do you have a link to where he said that?

    @Aleta: The Montgomery Advertiser has a good, brief synopsis.

    Take a moment to consider which groups this writer may grant or deny status as a person in his view.

    @Kraux Pas: He’s clarified that. I doubt any of us would qualify.

  39. 39
    smintheus says:

    @scott (the other one): My first reaction was, “Is Politico doing a hit piece on Klobuchar?” Because she appears to be saying just incredibly off-putting stuff.

    Have I pushed people too hard? Yes.

    Well OK then.

    Klobuchar again emphasized that she comes from a “different place” than many of her Democratic primary counterparts when explaining that she always thinks of her “Uncle Dick in the deer stand” when she considers gun control legislation.

    Because I guess all the other Democrats want to ban deer rifles.

    “We need to get this debate going, and this is put out there as an aspiration in that something we need to move toward,” she said. “Do I think we can cross every ‘T’ and dot every ‘I’ in 10 years? Actually, I think that would be very difficult to do.”

    Thank you for your contribution, Jeb.

    Klobuchar said that she would support easing restrictions on refinancing student loans, as well as expanding Pell Grants program.

    The kids will be overjoyed to hear we need to start a debate about possibly cutting a couple thousand off their student loan debts.

    The Minnesota Democrat called the Green New Deal “aspirational” and said that Medicare-for-all is “something we can look to in the future”

    So Klobuchar’s role will be to run out the clock for 8 years until somebody else ‘in the future’ calls for ‘aspiring’ to do something about global warming. Dandy.

  40. 40
    jacy says:

    @smintheus:

    I don’t want Klobuchar. I want an actual progressive Democrat. The time for “pragmatism” was during the Obama admin, and we see where that got us. No more half-measures.

    As I have said here before, time for Democrats to stop apologizing for running on the ideas the vast majority of Americans want. Full stop.

  41. 41
    Yarrow says:

    @Aleta: Read the tweet in my comment up thread. It has an image of the actual editorial.

  42. 42
    tobie says:

    @smintheus: Sorry but the description of the GND as aspirational doesn’t bother me. The resolution put forward is the very definition of an aspirational piece of legislation. It sets laudable benchmarks but offers no proposals on how to reach them. It doesn’t even address the second most potent greenhouse gas, methane. How else should one describe it?

    ETA: Have you seen Warren’s and Booker’s recent statements on M4All? Both emphasize that as a first order of business we need to shore up the ACA and lower drug prices. Then offer a buy in into Medicare at 55. Then set up a single payer system. There is no quick switch from the flawed Bismarck system we have to single payer. Sherrod Brown is right about that, as are Warren, Harris, Booker, and Klobuchar. I’m actually surprised at how much of a consensus there is on this issue this time around.

  43. 43
    lgerard says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    You can look at his ‘newspaper” here….it isn’t much.

    The Planned Parenthood cartoon is a nice touch

    http://www.smalltownpapers.com.....php?id=111

  44. 44
    germy says:

    http://nomoremister.blogspot.c.....paper.html

    THE EDITORIALS IN THAT ALABAMA PAPER HAVE BEEN RACIST FOR QUITE A WHILE

    Nothing new. He called Obama a “yard boy” a few years ago.

    Here’s what he said about black parents:

    When parents who are uneducated get a mindset on what’s best for a school, watch out world.
    Tribal rules from the dark continent will not suffice.

  45. 45

    I see Roger Stone has been ordered to appear in court Thursday to explain why his Instagram post doesn’t violate the gag order.

  46. 46
    germy says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Revoke his bail. Put him back behind bars.

  47. 47
    Yarrow says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: It’s too funny. He’ll fundraise off it, though.

  48. 48
    Cacti says:

    O/T, but related to the now dead thread about the Instagram habits of defendant Roger Stone, vis the presiding Judge in his criminal case, and posting a photo of her head with crosshairs over it:

    Judge Amy Berman Jackson has ordered Roger to Court this week to show cause on why the terms of his bail shouldn’t be changed (aka, why shouldn’t Her Honor revoke it, and throw your ass in jail).

  49. 49
    The Moar You Know says:

    I see Roger Stone has been ordered to appear in court Thursday to explain why his Instagram post doesn’t violate the gag order.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’d like that news better if the judge was going to have a couple of 4x4s, some rail spikes, and a couple of union carpenters in the courtroom during his appearance.

    She won’t throw his ass in jail but she’s not doing herself or her fellow federal judges any favors by not doing so. What he did was a straight up death threat and needs to be treated as such.

  50. 50
    trollhattan says:

    @The Moar You Know:
    From your link, this was instructive.

    The Advertiser contacted the Alabama Press Association, the state trade association for newspapers in the state, to inquire whether or not Sutton and the Democrat-Reporter were members.

    “We do not agree with the opinion,” said Felicia Mason, APA executive director. “However, APA is not a policing agency. We simply have no authority over what our member newspapers publish.”

  51. 51
    smintheus says:

    @tobie: Those 3 things are legislative fixes, which need not even cost vast sums of money and could easily save money. It shouldn’t represent an excessive commitment to fight to get those fixes passed. Instead, Klobuchar is talking about supporting a public option, a ship that tried to sail and sank years ago.

  52. 52
    Immanentize says:

    @trollhattan: I’m still in line for my jet pack.

  53. 53
    Kraux Pas says:

    @smintheus:

    Klobuchar said she believes that “we can get close” to the Green New Deal, but that she doesn’t “think we’re going to get rid of entire industries in the U.S.”

    Ooh, I can pull quotes too .

    I think her message here is that we can make progress but some people need to temper their expectations. This isn’t a bad thing.

    I’m still in wait-and-see mode re: the staff controversy.

  54. 54
  55. 55
    Kraux Pas says:

    @smintheus:

    Instead, Klobuchar is talking about supporting a public option, a ship that tried to sail and sank years ago.

    Well, you know what they say about falling off a bike, try a car instead because riding a bike clearly isn’t going to work.

  56. 56
    Robert Bowsher says:

    @Brachiator: 5 yards.

  57. 57
    smintheus says:

    @Kraux Pas: Is anybody seriously proposing that “we get rid of entire industries in the US”? Klobuchar loves to use straw men to position herself as a sensible centrist. To me, it seems like her top commitment is to expanding the straw man industry in the US.

  58. 58
    smintheus says:

    @Kraux Pas: If you’re trying to get people to a doctor, then yeah a car is a better option than a bike.

  59. 59
    Raven says:

    @Yarrow: From Auburn, big whoop!

  60. 60
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @trollhattan: I guess if it’s his own private newspaper, the only pressure for him to step down will have to come from advertisers. From reading other tweets, this is not that newspaper’s first racist article.

  61. 61
    The Moar You Know says:

    From your link, this was instructive.

    @trollhattan: The Advertiser has done a few stories on Linden, which are all instructive, and by “instructive” I mean utterly horrifying. Worth pursuing.

    Funny thing is, the last time I recall reading the Advertiser was back in 1986 when I was visiting my grandparents, which would turn out to be the last time I saw my grandmother alive. Used to hate having to go visit there every year, it was not a good environment for a smartass SoCal kid. The fucking locals had never seen a skateboard before. Last time I was there was in 2003 while my grandfather was dying. I wouldn’t mind seeing it again, but without them there it would be utterly pointless and probably very sad.

    My parents don’t see it this way, but the best thing they ever did for me was, through career choices, insuring I’d be raised in CA rather than the shithole state they were from.

  62. 62
    tobie says:

    @smintheus: I wouldn’t get caught up in semantics on this. I wrote in the morning thread that the idea behind the ACA with Medicaid expansion and a public option was to create the conditions for an eventual transition to a Canadian style healthcare system. There simply isn’t any way to move 180 million to a public system overnight without causing chaos. I’ll leave it to the experts to explain the difference between a Medicaid buy-in, a Medicare buy-in, or a public option. That’s way beyond my expertise.

  63. 63
    Kraux Pas says:

    @smintheus:

    Is anybody seriously proposing that “we get rid of entire industries in the US”?

    Private insurance? I’ve definitely heard that come up. Also, the GND FAQ that AOC put up suggested eliminating air travel if I’m not mistaken. It was retracted, but still, the notion of eliminating industries isn’t unheard of.

    Personally, I think if we could wean off of them and develop plans that don’t hurt too many stakeholders and give people time to transform their business mode, it will lower resistance.

  64. 64
    Cacti says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    Private insurance? I’ve definitely heard that come up. Also, the GND FAQ that AOC put up suggested eliminating air travel if I’m not mistaken. It was retracted, but still, the notion of eliminating industries isn’t unheard of.

    Personally, I think if we could wean off of them and develop plans that don’t hurt too many stakeholders and give people time to transform their business mode, it will lower resistance.

    It would be kind of tough to get rid of private insurance, when Medicare only reimburses 80 percent of covered services. For some reason, that never seems to be brought up in the Medicare for all discussion.

  65. 65
    Kraux Pas says:

    @smintheus:

    If you’re trying to get people to a doctor, then yeah a car is a better option than a bike.

    What I was trying to get across is that if a policy doesn’t get passed the first time around you shouldn’t give up on it. You also shouldn’t try for a bigger, bolder, but less fleshed out policy that will meet still more resistance without having the more gettable idea in mind for a potential compromise.

  66. 66
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I used to visit Conshocken regularly (my ex in-laws had a business there). Not a place I would have imagined for a Whole Foods. Must have gentrified in the intervening decades.

  67. 67
    Yarrow says:

    @Raven: At least there’s some response.

  68. 68
    smintheus says:

    @Kraux Pas: Even under Britain’s NHS, private health insurance has remained. Apart from the question of why would you, how could you regulate out of existence private health insurance?

    Everybody’s goal is to create the conditions in which undesirable industries like coal mining can go the way of the buggy whip industry. It’s not about eliminating them, it’s about moving beyond them.

  69. 69
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Cacti: I think a reasonable end goal would be universal coverage for basic health needs, with private insurance optional for people who always want the bestest newest drugs, new testing technologies, etc. rather than settling for cheaper services that have been shown to work in most cases.

    I love the idea of getting us to a public option that would let anyone opt-in. This would allow them to build their ability to provide healthcare for the broader public, make government healthcare less scary, and give better leverage to put in cost controls that don’t hurt patients.

  70. 70
    Kraux Pas says:

    @smintheus:

    Everybody’s goal is to create the conditions in which undesirable industries like coal mining can go the way of the buggy whip industry. It’s not about eliminating them, it’s about moving beyond them.

    Exactly. And what Klobuchar appeared to be trying to get across was that this wouldn’t happen immediately just because we said so. It’s something we have to work toward.

    I would say we want to incentivize best practices and help people transition to the new economy, not just disrupt.

  71. 71
    ruemara says:

    @Cacti: These people pushing it haven’t been poor and dependent on Medicare.

  72. 72
    smintheus says:

    @Kraux Pas: My problem with Klobuchar is partly that she indulges in passive aggressive attacks on her Dem rivals by postulating straw men that she personally does not favor. Nobody favors “us” eliminating entire industries, any more than “we” want to ban hunting rifles. She’s moving into Joe Lieberman territory. The farther she goes down that road grandstanding against the fake threat of fake Democratic extremism, the more damage she is going to do to the ultimate Dem nominee – who is very unlikely to be her.

  73. 73

    @The Moar You Know:

    She won’t throw his ass in jail

    She threw Manafort’s ass in jail for violating his agreement.

  74. 74
    Kraux Pas says:

    @smintheus:

    My problem with Klobuchar is partly that she indulges in passive aggressive attacks on her Dem rivals by postulating straw men that she personally does not favor.

    That’s not the impression I’ve gotten…yet. Still, that’s how the D agenda is often/usually framed in the media, so I think it’s a good answer that we don’t want to do those things. It’s still early and I agree that if that’s the impression she has of the other D candidates, that wouldn’t be good.

    So again, wait and see.

  75. 75
    Aleta says:

    @Yarrow: Thanks. I read the editorial at the paper’s site last night. But was wondering about the quote JR mentioned that was not in the editorial:

    “borrowed” their former owners’ robes and horses to ride against those who endangered the black community”

    @The Moar You Know: thanks. I quickly read that extra information, but unless I missed it, I didn’t see the quote (above) or where it came from

  76. 76
    Fair Economist says:

    @smintheus:

    Nobody favors “us” eliminating entire industries, any more than “we” want to ban hunting rifles.

    Sanders has actually proposed legally eliminating the health insurance industry in his Medicare for All bill, in 2024 or something like that. Several of the other candidates have expressed support for the bill, although I doubt they really support that particular provision. Nonetheless, a major candidate for the Dem Presidential nomination *has* seriously proposed eliminating an entire, and quite huge, industry. This is not a straw man.

  77. 77
    The Moar You Know says:

    thanks. I quickly read that extra information, but unless I missed it, I didn’t see the quote (above) or where it came from

    @Aleta: You did miss it. It’s right on the page of the Advertiser that I linked to. It is in his original editorial.

  78. 78
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    I think her message here is that we can make progress but some people need to temper their expectations. This isn’t a bad thing.

    On the other hand, it is the opposite of inspiring. “Take what you can get” is not a winning message, no matter how true it may be.

    When campaigning, candidates should be inspiring about addressing the big challenges – and they should go light on the details. We’re going to be stuck with legislation that can pass the Senate – so instead of fighting about policy details, candidates should be building popular momentum for doing SOMETHING about the big challenges.

    Make it so the public won’t accept inaction from the President and Congress in 2021.

  79. 79
    Ruckus says:

    @ruemara:
    Of course logic is not republicans forte.
    Or anywhere near their extremely narrow viewpoint. Logic is actually repelled by the mere scent of republicans.

  80. 80
    Yarrow says:

    @Aleta: I took it as JR’s inference and not an actual quote. The editorial says, “they borrowed their former masters’ robes and horses to ride through the night to frighten some evil doer.” So, similar but not specifically stating “to ride against those who endangered the black community” as JR said. The “some evil doer” is not the same as “those who endangered the black community.”

  81. 81
    smintheus says:

    @Fair Economist: Cite? I’m skeptical that Sanders believes he can simply outlaw private health insurance, especially with Medicare already having generated a forest of private health plans.

    Anyway, the hunting rifles BS shows that Klobuchar is using straw men to distance herself from other Dems.

  82. 82
    Fair Economist says:

    @smintheus: Section 107 of the bill:

    SEC. 107. PROHIBITION AGAINST DUPLICATING COVERAGE.
    (a) In General.—Beginning on the effective date described in section 106(a), it shall be unlawful for—

    (1) a private health insurer to sell health insurance coverage that duplicates the benefits provided under this Act; or

    What’s provided under the act and therefore not allowed for private insurance to cover:

    (1) Hospital services, including inpatient and outpatient hospital care, including 24-hour-a-day emergency services and inpatient prescription drugs.

    (2) Ambulatory patient services.

    (3) Primary and preventive services, including chronic disease management.

    (4) Prescription drugs, medical devices, biological products, including outpatient prescription drugs, medical devices, and biological products.

    (5) Mental health and substance abuse treatment services, including inpatient care.

    (6) Laboratory and diagnostic services.

    (7) Comprehensive reproductive, maternity, and newborn care.

    (8) Pediatrics.

    (9) Oral health, audiology, and vision services.

    (10) Short-term rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices.

    So, can’t insure in-patient care, can’t insure out-patient care, can’t insure rehab, can’t insure children – can’t even cover dental care.

    Yeah, that’s outlawing private health insurance.

  83. 83
    Aleta says:

    @Yarrow: thanks. I’d thought the difference was from a different statement he made somewhere else.

  84. 84
    rikyrah says:

    @tobie:

    Medicare age should be lowered to 50…get your AARP Card…get into Medicare

  85. 85
    Honus says:

    @Jeffro: wheeling’s not a big pepperoni roll town. You have to over to Fairmont or Clarksburg to find them.

  86. 86
    smintheus says:

    @Fair Economist: No, that is not the same as outlawing private insurance tout court. I notice that you left out part B of section 107:

    Nothing in this Act shall be construed as prohibiting the sale of health insurance coverage for any additional benefits not covered by this Act, including additional benefits that an employer may provide to employees or their dependents, or to former employees or their dependents.

    Also, the list of benefits such as hospitalization is qualified by this:

    items and services if medically necessary or appropriate for the maintenance of health or for the diagnosis, treatment, or rehabilitation of a health condition

    In other words, not all medical costs related to e.g. hospitalization will be covered…hence as with Medicare currently, there will exist a private health insurance market.

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