Klobuchar Town Hall

Anyone watching? It’s on CNN with Don Lemon.

She brought up rising insurance rates as a current effect of climate change. That’s something that will ring true for many coastal folk.

She’s doing well half an hour in. Has a good command of facts and reasonably detailed responses to policy questions.

So cool that we have several serious women candidates now and that it doesn’t feel like a huge deal anymore. (Thanks, Hillary!)

Open thread!






104 replies
  1. 1
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    I don’t know. All of these women running might just be neoliberals so I won’t vote for any of them unless they spontaneously transform into His Holiness from Vermont and recite the Rose Prayer:

    In brightest day, in blackest night,
    No neoliberalism shall escape my sight
    Let those who worship Hitlery’s might,
    Beware my power…the DSA’s light!

    //

  2. 2
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I’m open to the idea that there’s a lane, as the kids say, for a moderate/boring candidate, I worry sometimes about what it was fashionable to call epistemic closure a couple years ago, but I think AK needs to give the base(s) something to get excited about.

  3. 3
    matt says:

    I think Obama proved to Democrats that being a timid centrist doesn’t get you anything even if you win elections.

  4. 4
    Jeffro says:

    Not watching but that’s just out of time constraints, too much to do here!

    It doesn’t matter that much who we pick, they’re all about 2% different max when it comes to policy…just wake me up once we’ve picked a candidate and then it’s Game. On.

  5. 5
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @matt: Right on, man! You gotta lose elections boldly to stick it to The Man! That’s how we get Our Revolution!

  6. 6
    Fair Economist says:

    I want more men!

    (crowd calls for blood)

    Wait, hear me out. It’s because otherwise Wilmer will monopolize the misogynist vote and I don’t want him as one of the leaders.

  7. 7
    plato says:

    @matt: Yeah, Obama had dem majority in both the houses who supported him fully to the to pass all the librul agenda. Dumbass.

  8. 8
    Another Scott says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: With the Constitution being shredded, it’s hard for me to think that going all in on coastal insurance is a winning strategy.

    I agree that relating climate change to pocket book issues is important. Good for her for bringing it, and the power of the tech Giants, etc., up. But it seems like small beer compared to the rule of law.

    To be clear, I don’t know if anyone else is talking about it either.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  9. 9
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    You did satire better than I did it.

  10. 10
    hilts says:

    Has a good command of facts and reasonably detailed responses to policy questions.

    I had the same reaction. Hopefully, this will actually matter to enough voters to get Trump’s fat ass removed from the White House to prevent him from doing any further damage to the nation.

  11. 11
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    sounds like the Wilmerites brought their letters to Sanders Clause to frame their questions with

    Gideon Resnick @ GideonResnick
    Klobuchar asked about endorsing free college for all from a recent graduate.
    She says she wants to make it easier to refinance these loans, extend more pell grants. Says she’s not for free four-year college. “If I was a magic genie and we could afford that, I would.”
    .
    Klobuchar is asked point blank “why can’t we have Medicare for All….what makes us the exception?”
    She responds: “What we need is to expand coverage so that people can have a choice for a public option and that’s a start.” Mentions support for brianschatz’ Medicaid bill

    “what makes us the exception…” Jesus christ

  12. 12
    Kay says:

    While I believe the stories about how she’s horrible to her employees, she comes off as a very (just kill me now) likeable.
    That’s the right word :)
    I wonder what Trump would do with that.

  13. 13
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: What makes us the exception is that Americans can’t define socialism.

    Universal health insurance was created by Von Bismarck, who was not a liberal, let alone a socialist. In fact he created it because he was convinced by doing so it would prevent socialism from being implemented.

  14. 14
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kay: She’s Minnesota nice!

  15. 15
    jk says:

    It’s a breath of fresh air to listen to Klobuchar, Warren, Harris, Booker, or Gillibrand. Unlike Trump, all of these people have fully functional brains.

    If Trump gets re-elected, I’ll start rooting for a killer asteroid to strike the Earth and bring the motherfucking curtain down on humanity.

  16. 16
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: While I believe the stories about how she’s horrible to her employees,

    I hate the infantilizing tone of the rumored “tardy slips”, but I wonder if the thrown binder wasn’t “Jesus christ what is this shit!” toss of exasperation. Whatever. Broken glass, et cetera.

  17. 17
    tobie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: “What makes us the exception is that American’s can’t define socialism.”
    And we seem to have no clue about the variety of healthcare systems in the developed world. Thanks for mentioning the Bismarck model.

  18. 18
    Kay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Right, so secretly mean. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    I do wonder what he would do with that, though. It’s a different approach than combative. Hillary had to go first with him and that’s always hardest. Now we all know his song and dance. We have so many different candidates to attack him! Just all SORTS of opponents for Mr. Trump :)

  19. 19
    ThresherK says:

    I don’t consume much TV news, and most of it’s second-hand and blogs/tweets about, but I have the feeling Don Lemon has become better while Trump was president.

    Am I reading too much into a few things, or has having to cover the Shitgibbon lit a fire under Lemon’s butt?

  20. 20
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @tobie: We had to sink it, it was the terror of the actuaries. Or something.

  21. 21
    Yarrow says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: People don’t understand the difference between universal coverage and Medicare for All. It’s like they think everyone can’t possibly be covered unless we have Medicare for All. In other words, people are stupid and/or uninformed.

  22. 22
    Mandalay says:

    @Kay:

    While I believe the stories about how she’s horrible to her employees, she comes off as a very (just kill me now) likeable.

    While I agree that she’s likable (enough?), I still have a hard time getting past this stuff:

    Klobuchar sent degrading emails, threw office supplies, and requested that staff perform household chores for her.

    Now that doesn’t make her worse than Trump, but AFAIK none of her rivals have a reputation for treating those working for them like shit. And she still hasn’t really accepted responsibility; how does saying “I have high expectations for the people that work for me” square with sending degrading emails and throwing stuff? That conduct is 100% on her, not her employees, and she needs to own it completely to make it go away.

  23. 23
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    I wrote before that her being a tough boss is one thing.
    If it can be proven that she contacted future employers of former employees, that is a disqualifier for me.

  24. 24
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The tardy slips I can live with. I don’t like that she gets so unhinged. That’s bad for a President. It’s also a little worrisome that her private persona is so different from her public face. It would be one thing if she were a hothead in general, but she’s like 2 completely different people.

    Anyway. This is the likeable one :)

  25. 25
    tobie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You mean the Bismarck went the same way as the Titanic? Oh well.

  26. 26

    As has been mentioned previously Senator Warren was in town to give a speech at our Alex Theater. I took my camera on my walk to get a picture of the marquee with her name on it. I got the pic from across the street and walked over by the Alex and heard SPW’s voice, I assumed they were sending out a feed from inside the theater to folk in the courtyard. I was wrong, Senator Warren was in the courtyard with some brief remarks before heading into the theater and said she’d be back out after her speech to answer questions and pose with folk for pics. I could only see her arms as she gestured and the top of her head.

  27. 27
    Yarrow says:

    @ThresherK: He has become better. He hasn’t wandered off into a “what if the plane was abducted by aliens” discussion for awhile. I happened to see the handoff between Chris Cuomo at the end of his show and Don Lemon at the start of his the other night. They were both just going off about how terrible Trump is. I think it was Cuomo he went with the “Can you imagine if President Obama had done [whatever the issue was that night]. Felt like live action Balloon Juice comments.

  28. 28
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Yarrow: I think even “Medicare for All” is open to multiple interpretations short of single payer, especially as non-political-junkies (voters) understand the term.

  29. 29
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    If it can be proven that she contacted future employers of former employees, that is a disqualifier for me.

    I need more information on that. Could it mean she gave a poor reference? It’s easier to not give one at all rather than a thumb’s down so in that way it’s unusual, but I’m not sure what “contact” means.

  30. 30
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: It’s also a little worrisome that her private persona is so different from her public face.

    Yeah, that is the most troubling part of it, if true.

  31. 31
    jl says:

    Not watching. I can read the transcript.

    But, a few questions.
    Did Warren get a town hall? If not, why not? How does CNN decide who gets a townhall?
    Is Lemon doing as crappy a job as Tapper?

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @tobie:

  33. 33

    @jl: SPW’s here in Beautiful Downtown Glendale.

  34. 34
    tobie says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’m glad California will get some love from Presidential candidates this time around. I imagine that by the time the primaries come it Maryland, things will have already been decided, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

  35. 35
    Mandalay says:

    @ThresherK:

    I have the feeling Don Lemon has become better while Trump was president.

    He certainly has, but the bar was set very low. Lemon gave Trump free air time for months while he was campaigning. Trump didn’t even bother going to a studio. He just phoned Lemon’s show and lobbed bombs, while Lemon uncritically grinned and laughed along, because ratings.

    Lemon wasn’t as big a doormat and enabler as Joe Scarborough, but he was pretty bad.

  36. 36
    Kay says:

    By “refinance” student loans I hope she means early pay-off. That’s the way to do it. Limit the term of the loan instead of screwing around with interest rates. A period of years with regular, timely payments and just call it “paid” and let them go on their way. It’s much better than a default, which is all they’ll get if they don’t do something. They’d probably do better with actually collecting some set portion than chasing people for decades and “10 and done” (or whatever) is easy for people to figure out and plan for.

    She can be moderately bold. Moderate but simple? Moderates get into trouble because no one understands their elaborate schemes.

  37. 37
    matt says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t think the old conventional wisdom of being safest/ost electable with the most centrist candidate still holds, if it ever dd.

  38. 38
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    John DiStaso @ jdistaso
    Breaking now on @ WMUR9 – Key @ BernieSanders supporter says presidential announcement coming Tuesday; Vermont senator’s supporters to receive email laying out his plans #fitn #nhpolitics #WMUR

    predictable, even inevitable, but I still feel like I just stubbed my toe on a rock in the middle of a pleasant walk in the woods

  39. 39
    B.B.A. says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Can’t we just deport him to Russia now, and save ourselves the heartburn?

  40. 40
    matt says:

    @plato: I loved Obama as a president and I think he did the best he could given who he is and what he thought he could and couldn’t do. But i think someone who had more of a sense of political theater and moving sentiment through doing the stupid marketing stuff could have gotten a lot more done. I’m not mad at him at all, just think we owe it to ourselves to learn from the past.

  41. 41
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It’ll be different now, though. It’s a crowded field and Elizabeth Warren is a better Bernie :)

    I hope it will be different. It better be.

  42. 42
    hilts says:

    @Mandalay: @ThresherK:

    I like Don Lemon and think that Trump’s racism, corruption, and stupidity has filled him with righteous indignation.

  43. 43
    tobie says:

    @Kay: I was kind of hoping she would say something about debt-free college. You shouldn’t be saddled in your early professional life with mountains of debt. “Refinancing student debt” was too vague for me. I don’t know what that means.

  44. 44
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yep. His supporters are currently trying to cause a huge fight on DailyKos because one of the long term front pages tweeted “Fuck Bernie” about his plans to run again.

    He hasn’t even declared yet but I’m super tired of him and his people.

  45. 45
    hilts says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Don’t worry, Biden will likely announce soon. Then we’ll have 2 candidates who are too fucking old to be President.

  46. 46
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @matt: But i think someone who had more of a sense of political theater and moving sentiment through doing the stupid marketing stuff could have gotten a lot more done.

    that’s less obnoxious than your initial comment, but the idea that “political theater” and marketing would have gotten Spiteful Joe Lieberman to vote for a strong public option and Mary Landrieu and Joe Manchin to support cap-and-trade is not very convincing

  47. 47
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @hilts: Is Biden that much older than Trump? I’m fine with him. I’m sure he’ll pick a much younger VP.

  48. 48
    matt says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think you’d be surprised how much a president willing to throw his weight around on a crappy little entitled shithead like Lieberman could accomplish. LBJ. But you have to be willing to have people not like you.

  49. 49
    Dan B says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank doG she’s not Mississippi nice!
    (or Arkansas, where I lived…. All on Old Man River but soooo different.)

    But it reminds me of how people can come across well on camera but be sociopaths (David, cough ccough, Bbbbrooks, etc.) and vice versa. The intense media and brand training the vast network of right leaning think tanks has provided to the GOP for decades has elevated pitiful scum to high office (apologies to a green life form). We need every skill set especially persuasion and charisma.

  50. 50
    Doug R says:

    @matt: So a “Magic” Something something.
    Maybe Obama lost his GL ring, that’s why he was limited to what a human could do.

  51. 51
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Another Scott:

    But it seems like small beer compared to the rule of law.

    You didn’t watch, did you?

  52. 52
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Oh, god. The LBJ fetishism again. I can’t.

    @Patricia Kayden: I don’t think Biden’s age even makes the top five list of his biggest weakness. Iraq. Anita Hill. The crime bill. His history with the banking and credit card industry. Okay, maybe it’s five.

  53. 53
    matt says:

    As I see it, Warren is clearly the best prepared to do real left wing populism and she’ll probably win, deservingly. I like Harris because she seems to have a good killer instinct and be ready to scrap so she’s a very tolerable second best, more centrist candidate. Then I don’t really care. Sanders has his rabid fans and nobody else. Beto doesn’t have the kind of resume Obama had which puts him out there kind of naked. Booker and Klobuchar are the right wing candidates in the field. Sherrod Brown is your guy if you’re afraid not to run a white guy.

  54. 54
    Aleta says:

    @matt:
    “doesn’t get you anything”

    Didn’t get you what you’d decided

  55. 55
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Dan B: I lived in Conway, AR for a year. So I hear you.

  56. 56
    matt says:

    @Doug R: I think Obama made a lot of excuses for not delivering. He was a great vote-getter. He did not deliver on fundamental change.

  57. 57
    matt says:

    @Aleta: Are you really satisfied with what Obama accomplished? Seriously? Stockholm Syndrome much?

  58. 58
    jl says:

    @matt: I’m OK with Warren/Harris, or Harris/Warren. Either would be a great ticket ready to rumble.
    Sherrod Brown hasn’t finalized enough of the policy platform he’ll run on to judge what kind of guy he is yet.

  59. 59
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    okay, I thought we had a garden-variety berniebot, but this is smelling more and more like a pure troll

  60. 60
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @matt: Remind me, would you. How long did Obama have a functional majority in Congress?

  61. 61
    Dan B says:

    @Yarrow: A long time client of mine who made many millions branding big companies endlessly repeated that “Half of people have an IQ under 100.” He didn’t mean that a low IQ implied stupidity. He meant that the ability to process and remember lots of data was nit a measure of worth but that high IQ people were piss poor at communicating with people who were wise in other ways: emotionally, spiritually, etc. IQ is a measure of data processing but it completely misses charisma and the ability to inspire, influence, and/or lead people. Data won’t move people even though it is essential for decision makers and for long term success.

  62. 62
    gwangung says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I think matt should demonstrate that he can count (votes).

    Then, perhaps, document what he could have done administratively but didn’t given that counting ability.

  63. 63
    jl says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve watched some of Biden’s speeches in prep for his debutante ball… er… I mean announcement. I think Biden’s big poll numbers will evaporate quickly (as they always have before) because his electoral political chops are weak on his own, and worse than that now he is IMHO very out of date on what voters want to hear.

    The speeches I’ve heard, Biden has over rehearsed over political consulted his kindly lovable Uncle Joe story teller schtick until it is really hard to follow what he is saying. Booker is out of date too.

    Warren and Harris are most up to date I’ve seen. Put firm stands on simple clear policies out front that will help average person and beat them like a pile driver, don’t back down. Be serious and direct. And very clear and very firm on policy.

    Corporate media will not like either of them.

  64. 64
    Amir Khalid says:

    @hilts:
    Isn’t Don Lemon the guy who theorised that aliens abducted MH370?

  65. 65
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tobie: I was glad to hear her mention Pell grants a couple of times. Those were a huge lifeline for students when I was in college (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth).

  66. 66
    hilts says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I completely agree with your bill of particulars against Biden, but I’m deeply disgusted by the fact that anyone over 70 years old would have the nerve to run for President.

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Biden is 76 years old, Sanders is 77 years old, and in my opinion they’re incredibly selfish pricks. I say fuck both of them.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Betty Cracker: They need to be massively expanded. As in the amount made to each student. Like everything else, they’ve really not kept up with the cost of universities and colleges.

  68. 68
    jl says:

    @Amir Khalid: I’ll give him a pass on that. He had to fill up almost 40 hours a day on that disappearance. Would have killed weaker people. He probably got more than a little punchy after a while.

  69. 69
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Doug R: The way he describes it, more likely to be a Red Lantern:

    With blood and rage of crimson red,

    Ripped from a corpse so freshly dead,

    Together with our hellish hate,

    We’ll burn you all–that is your fate!

  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @hilts: This is why I’m establishing the Soylent Green Party. Among other things, we promise everyone free nutritional supplements.

  71. 71
    Jay says:

    @tobie:

    Following Occupy, and ongoing, there’s a bunch of go fund me, funded Groups that buy debt at a penny on the dollar or less, and retire it. Morgages, student loans, medical debt.

    Imagine what could be done if it were a Federal program.

  72. 72
    hilts says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Isn’t Don Lemon the guy who theorised that aliens abducted MH370?

    Hey, nobody’s perfect. But seriously, Lemon has called Trump a racist on the air so I’m willing to give him a pass for going down the rabbit hole about MH370.

  73. 73

    @Betty Cracker: I’ll have you know that I was in college BEFORE dinosaurs roamed the earth(kids these days…).

  74. 74
    Betty Cracker says:

    I heard Gillibrand interviewed on the Obama bros podcast today. (Interview took place a week or more ago, I think.) She was really good on policy too and quick on her feet. Don’t think her candidacy is taking off — who knows what’ll happen — but it is reassuring that we have so many smart, qualified people running.

  75. 75
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @hilts: What scares me most about Biden is he seems to have developed a sense of entitlement, if not a Messianic streak, and he could turn bitter and trolly when things don’t work out. His response to the Fred Upton thing (which I think was fairly minor in itself) was petty, bordering on contemptuous, and there’s gossip that he’s starting to resent Obama for not being more supportive enough. I just get a bad vibe off of him these days

  76. 76
    jl says:

    @hilts: Lemon’s weird alien jet abduction theory may have been a disguised plea for rescue from the studio. I’ll go back and see if he was blinking Morse code while he said that stuff.

    IIRC correctly, he also speculated on divine intervention of some kind, and unspecified occult occurrences More I think about, clearly disguised pleas for help, to his family or maybe his shrink. Or pastor.

  77. 77
    Amir Khalid says:

    @jl:
    @hilts:
    Some people here had family members on the plane and didn’t need to hear that kind of idiocy.

  78. 78
    hilts says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Speaking of Soylent Green, I propose an open thread for people to suggest their assisted suicide playlists if Trump gets re-elected.

    Edward G. Robinson’s death in Soylent Green is one of my all-time favorite film scenes.

  79. 79
    eemom says:

    I was appalled by the reports of Klobuchar shitting on her underlings, because I’ve always considered that a litmus test of character. IOW I believe, as Malcolm Forbes said, that “You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.”

    A bunch of people piped up with, “Yeah, but does anybody ever say that about a MAN who’s running for office?” And my response was I don’t give a shit. I’d have the exact same repulsed reaction if she were a man.

    Then people said, so how come she’s so popular, if she’s such a bitch? And I observed that there are plenty of people who are DELIGHTFUL to their equals or to anyone who is necessary or useful to them, but treat “underlings” like shit….so back to that litmus test.

    Then last week I attended a Yale alum event where I met Klobuchar’s college roommate and close friend. She and her husband assured me that Amy could NEVER be mean to her underlings….that’s just not who she IS.

    I actually felt reassured for a while. Then I was like, duh…..

  80. 80
    jl says:

    @Amir Khalid: Sorry if I hit a nerve with my joke about it. But OTOH, I have no control over the nonsense CNN pulled with that repulsive disaster coverage stunt, or the other stupid disaster and developing story stunts they pull.

  81. 81
    Dan B says:

    @Kay: There are a lot of charismatic psychopaths and creeps who sell lots of used cars. There are many people who value data and facts who need training to seem genuine and persuasive on camera and on stage.

    A good friend maintains that Hillary got too much coaching and advice from too many different consultants and just needed more of them to tell her to be like she would be around a dozen close friends – warm, calm, witty, loving, etc.

    Klobuchar has it and Warren does at times. Beto has it but I think he needs to achieve some victories. AOC and Ilhan Omar seem amazing for so new on the stage. My rep, Pramila Jayapal, has it but was born in India, sigh…

    Can’t we elect a group?

  82. 82
    hilts says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    You’re correct that Don Lemon fucked up in that particular instance, but Donald Trump is a malignant cancer and Lemon has consistently hit him hard so I have to move past the coverage of the missing airliner.

  83. 83
    hilts says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Heard Gillibrand interviewed on the Obama bros podcast today. (Interview took place a week or more ago, I think.) She was really good on policy too and quick on her feet. Don’t think her candidacy is taking off.

    I think it’s too early to conclude that her candidacy is not taking off. She’s very smart and I hope as she gets better known her poll numbers increase.

  84. 84
    Kent says:

    Personally I think Warren and Harris are going to suck all the oxygen out of the room for both Klobuchar and Gillibrand. Warren has the star power and Harris just seems to have more energy and organization…and frankly electoral advantages in the south and west. I’m not sure what Klobuchar’s hook is going to be? The white nicer and more moderate version of Harris? And Gillibrand seems to want to run as the feminist candidate which I don’t think is going to work in a field of more accomplished female senators.

    I don’t see how Wilmer captures the magic of 2016. He was the progressive anti-Hillary candidate. Well, we have a slate of younger progressive candidates who are actual democrats. The Wilmer-bro thing is going to wear very thin in a hurry because everyone’s radar is going to be tuned to detect it this time. Same with Biden. You gotta put together a national campaign of energetic activists to run a national primary. Polling aside, I don’t detect the slightest groundswell of on the grounds activist types ready to leap onto the Biden Bandwagon.

    I expect we will end up with the last guy standing early on as the female senators sort themselves out for the top two spots, and it won’t be either Biden or Wilmer. I think it will be one of the younger guys like Beto or Casto, or maybe a single issue candidate like my own governor Jay Inslee who will ride things out to the end like Kasich did in 2016, hoping for a VP pick.

  85. 85
    Jay says:

    @eemom:

    I’m taking it all with a big dose of salt for now.

    I’ve had female VP’s who got “slagged” in house for 1/10th what male VP’s got away with. The MSM is busy trying to create a “narrative” about all the female Democratic Cantidates slightly left of wingerism,

    So that during the Primaries and the General they can EMAILZ!!!! BENGAZHIII!!!!!!!!! the shit out of it.

  86. 86
    eemom says:

    @hilts:

    Biden is 76 years old, Sanders is 77 years old, and in my opinion they’re incredibly selfish pricks. I say fuck both of them.

    Don’t compare those two, please. That is really, really fucked up.

  87. 87
    hilts says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    What scares me most about Biden is he seems to have developed a sense of entitlement, if not a Messianic streak.

    I agree with you 100% and would say the exact same thing about Bernie Sanders.
    Here we are on Feb 19, 2019 with Amy Klobuchar, Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand, Elizabeth Warren, and Cory Booker in this race, 5 intelligent, substantive individuals all qualified to be President. Who the fuck needs Biden or Sanders this time around? These 2 guys need to go gently into that good night and shut the fuck up!

  88. 88
    hilts says:

    @eemom:

    I’m making the point that they’re both seriously TOO OLD to be President and their nauseating sense of entitlement is really fucked up.

  89. 89
    jl says:

    @Kent: I’ll read the transcript of this townhall and see what I think. But so far, Klobuchar seems to want to be the reasonable centrist and present an image without big bold economic policies for middle and working class up front. If she goes that way, IMHO, then she is out of date, like Biden and Booker and won’t go far. A little unfair to Booker, who has done great work in for example, criminal justice reform. But I think any timidity on economic issues, or promises to crack down on a corrupt oligarchic political and social system will be deadly to a candidate, that is Booker’s big weakness (though he could fix it tomorrow if he wanted, just unhook himself from big political money)

    After all the puff and piss pieces the political operatives and hacks, and camp followers, write, and after all the meme trials and gossip, successful candidates have to pull in audiences and voters. We see that beginning already with Harris and Warren. Whether BS can get a following depends on how much he sounds like a tape loop of 2016, and if he does, then will come off as an old crank to all but his dead-ender fanatical base.

    But, hey, Dem field looks very good so far. I got no complaints.

  90. 90
    tobie says:

    @Betty Cracker: Pell grants are great. No objection to expanding their numbers. But I also kind of like the idea of canceling college debt at a certain age. I prefer this to free college for a variety of reasons both practical and paranoid. My paranoid fear is that if states help pick up the cost of tuition, they will want to play a role in determining the curriculum and this could spell the end of the humanities or any non-applied field of learning.

  91. 91
    hilts says:

    @Kent:

    Gillibrand seems to want to run as the feminist candidate which I don’t think is going to work in a field of more accomplished female senators.

    I think that’s in the eye of the beholder. I believe her record of achievement stacks up well against the other female candidates. Whoever emerges, I look forward to the Dem nominee kicking Trump’s totalitarian ass on Election Day.

  92. 92
    hilts says:

    @jl:

    But, hey, Dem field looks very good so far. I got no complaints.

    Agreed, on one side is a group of intelligent, thoughtful, well-spoken individuals and on the other side is a raging, knuckle dragging neanderthal who isn’t fully house broken. The choice on Election Day should be a no brainer.

  93. 93
    Dan B says:

    @Kay: “Moderates get in trouble because nobody understands their schemes.” (Scuze me if quote is garbled.) Such wise words! It’s one of the most difficult things to grasp for people. One person’s universal health care is someone’s “giving away my dollars to aliens from Mars”. Or, more seriously, threatening hated but familiar stability.

    Good health care for everyone. We are the wealthiest country, we can afford it.

    Repeat, repeat, repeat. Let the plutocrats’ mouthpieces froth.

  94. 94
    Yutsano says:

    @Dan B: I don’t know about you but Senator Jayapal sounds really nice if/when Patty or Maria decide it’s time to hang up their shoes.

  95. 95
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Kent: The thing is, none of the other candidates are progressives according to be BernieBro friends. Well, except Tulsi who is apparently The Best Candidate Ever Except For Bernie.

  96. 96
    Kent says:

    @jl: Bookers big weakness is that he has been in bed with Betsy DeVos and the charter school privatization movement for a long time which will make him a non starter for most activist teachers across the country myself included. That is a fairly hefty portion of the ground troops who are going to be working the primaries and caucuses.

  97. 97
    rikyrah says:

    @Kent:
    And, it’s quite alright for that to be a disqualifier. In fact, it should be in a Democratic Party Primary.
    A pundit said on Joy Reid said a few weeks ago that Kamala Harris would have to work through the ‘Kamala is a cop’ accusation…
    But, that that was all she had to defend herself about to Democratic Party Primary voters.

    He also said that Booker would have to defend himself on a minefield of issues, and he did bring up charter schools as one example of his minefield.

  98. 98
    Chris Johnson says:

    @jl:

    Corporate media will not like either of them.

    Corporate media is fucking Pravda. We can’t go by that.

  99. 99
    AxelFoley says:

    @matt:

    I think Obama proved to Democrats that being a timid centrist doesn’t get you anything even if you win elections.

    The Obama that actually got shit done in his 8 years in office? That guy?

    Oh, you Berners crack me up. Meanwhile, your guy hasn’t done shit in damn near 30 years in office, so kindly fuck right on off.

  100. 100
    Mozeu says:

    @eemom: it’s quite possible that she wasn’t abusive, you realize. This is an anonymous report. How many people are on record? Who are they? How will I determine their credibility? What if this is basically one psycho who didn’t do their job, got criticized and tossed out and is a disgruntled, vengeful person largely making shit up or grossly exaggerating. It’s not like this is all that uncommon. I have no way to judge their credibility. I know several people who know her from law school and one person who worked on her senatorial campaign. They do not confirm these rumors. Proving a negative is exceptionally difficult. I would hope people will not simply assume this rumor is true without much more substantiation.

  101. 101
    Olivia says:

    Well, Trent Lott says that the only Democrat who can beat trump is Biden. Ya, sure, you betcha.
    The Republicans are scared to death of all the Democratic women running.

  102. 102
    J R in WV says:

    OK, did anyone ask the nice Senator if there was any truth to the rumor that she contacted potential future employers of departing employees of the Senator with regard to those departing employees NOT being hired by the new employer?

    ‘Cause that’s a killer hit on this “nice” senator if there’s a shred of truth to the accusation. That’s fuckin’ with someone’s future after they’re gone from you. Bad juju in every way, and deservedly so.

  103. 103
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @J R in WV: Or is it that she was contacted by the potential employer as a reference and she didn’t wax rhapsodic about said job applicant? I’ve done that with former staff members. I didn’t want to be THAT person who recommends a poor performer and the next employer get stuck with them. Maybe Amy has me fooled, but she doesn’t seem like that kind of person. More evidence needed. Frankly, she’s not my first choice anyway, but I’m suspicious of anonymous rumors about female candidates.

  104. 104
    anarchoRex *furiosoateo if anyone remembers... says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: That’s messed up. You always have the option of saying that you don’t discuss a former employee’s past performance and don’t give referrals, good or bad. And it’s pretty clear that, if she is the abusive boss depicted, that former employees would not want to be identified out of fear of retribution. Abusive bosses are more common than not, in my experience, and my instinct is to believe the workers. And this would apply to anyone, regardless of gender.

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