Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Creative Numbers

I have no idea what the Bernistas are doing, and after the last time (remember the sequinned granny panties?) I’m not gonna go looking, either.

Speaking of creative numbers, intrepid Canandian reporter Daniel Dale checked out the Liar-in-Chief’s El Paso rally…

Anyone who’s actually got a twitter account, feel free to share this:

141 replies
  1. 1
    Mary G says:

    You know that’s sticking in Twitler’s craw. “If they didn’t print soooo much Fake News, I would be the favorite, not the black guy who was totally born in Africa.”

  2. 2
    OzarkHillbilly says:


  3. 3
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Etsy is rigged!

  4. 4
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Where do you find the Hillary #s?

  5. 5
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Massive crowds for Beto

    (Photo #1)

    (Photo #2)

    (Photo #3)

  6. 6
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    All the #s from Gallup:

    Most Admired Woman
    Michelle Obama 15
    Oprah Winfrey 5
    Hillary Clinton 4
    Melania Trump 4
    Queen Elizabeth 2
    Angela Merkel 2
    Ruth Bader Ginsburg 2
    Ellen DeGeneres 2
    Nikki Haley 1
    Malala Yousafzai 1
    Nancy Pelosi 1

    Most Admired Man
    Barack Obama 19
    Donald Trump 13
    George W. Bush 2
    Pope Francis 2
    Bill Gates 1
    Bernie Sanders 1
    Bill Clinton 1
    Dalai Lama 1
    Joe Biden 1
    Elon Musk 1
    Mike Pence 1

  7. 7
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Speaking of Michelle,

    “Becoming,” the memoir by former first lady Michelle Obama, has emerged as the bestselling hardcover book in 2018, with 3.4 million copies sold, despite its November release.

    According to stats released by NPD Bookscan, which tracks about 80 percent of the retail market, Obama’s book surged, with 712,000 sold in the week before Christmas. That even beat the sales following its Nov. 13 release, when its first-week sales hit a record 710,000 copies sold, according to Bookscan.

    The robust numbers have to be a big relief to Penguin Random House, which bought the book in a two-book deal including a memoir by former President Barack Obama for a record-shattering $65 million.

    Two other nonfiction books tied to examining the stormy tenure of President Trump also finished in the top 10. Michael Wolff’s “Fire and Fury” finished in fifth place, with 1,016,014 hardcover books sold. Bob Woodward’s “Fear” landed in seventh with sales of 972,750.

    This was only the hardback sales and did not include the millions of ebooks and audio books also purchased.

  8. 8
    Patricia Kayden says:

    The Obamas are warm, compassionate, decent human beings. Such a stark contrast to the garbage currently occupying the White House. Thank goodness for Mueller and the mid term elections for putting a thorn in Trump’s presidency.

  9. 9
    geg6 says:

    I may have imagined this as it was a quick clip I heard when I was getting out of bed, but I think Trump was mocking the idea that you’d have a dog. Derisively saying something like well, Obama had a dog, so…

    Are they really going to go anti-dog? Seriously?

  10. 10
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Good on Beto for even holding a counter rally. Nice to see such a huge anti-Trump crowd.

  11. 11
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I tried to find it, but their catalog is down, right now.

  12. 12
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @geg6: I can’t remember who Trump insulted with a comment that he or she “was fired like a dog” but I gather that he doesn’t care for dogs.

  13. 13
    geg6 says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    But the crowd was shouting with glee at the idea that having a dog was bad. Surely some Trumpers have pets they love?

  14. 14
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @geg6: there was some television report on how he’s the first president not to have a dog in 120 years and of course he’s so thin skinned he has to rant about it.

  15. 15
    geg6 says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    Maybe that’s what set him off. It just caught my attention and I was so puzzled and kind of upset by it. Didn’t see the context, so perhaps he had a point but just was weird, even for him.

  16. 16
    Kay says:

    I think they’re reaching the point where they have to actively cover Trump excessively, to make up for flagging interest.

    He’s a bore. He says the same things at all these rallies. Even his insults are boring. He was chanting “lock her up” yesterday. Two solid years of the same tired lines. It doesn’t even shock anyone any more. He can’t even get a negative reaction.

    I’m hoping the Trump-whisperer reporters start seeing slipping market share. There’s something desperate about the coverage- “wait ’till you hear what he said this time!” except it’s all the same.

    Reality shows change the cast members every season because they’d be an absolute fucking bore if they didn’t. Team Trump has been cycling thru the 2016 season f or almost 3 years. The one and only reason the shut down drama was at all interesting was Democrats took the House and Pelosi added some interest. I was grateful Democrats took the House just because I would see someone else on tv other than Donald Trump and his tiny group of low quality hires.

  17. 17
    JPL says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Trust me, we don’t want trump to own a dog.

  18. 18
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: You mean they finally “locked her up”?

    @Patricia Kayden: He’s a germaphobe. Hell for him is being locked in a room with a bull mastiff.

  19. 19
    Kay says:

    “Donald Trump gave another speech where he lied constantly, stoked phony outrage over imagined incidents and insulted people”

    Year Three. I guess the question is if Americans watch this shitty, low quality depressing reality show for another season, or if they just stop tuning in. They’ll have it shoved in their faces! It’s an actual business model now and a small group of people are making a lot of money on it. They’ll have to actively turn away.

    The only thing that will stop it is if it’s stops producing revenue for the tiny (and powerful) group of people who benefit from it.

  20. 20
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    The solar energy sector lost 8,000 jobs in the US last year, the second consecutive year of declines, hit by uncertainty over the Trump administration’s energy and trade policies and a 30% tariff on imported solar panels, according to a report released on Tuesday.

    But according to the Solar Foundation the future is still bright for solar. Despite the two-year dip, solar employment has grown 159%, from just over 93,000 to more than 242,000 jobs in all 50 states over the past nine years and the report concludes the long-term outlook for solar energy production is positive.

    Solar, which currently represents about 2.4% of overall US electricity generation, already employs twice as many workers as the coal industry and almost five times as many workers as the nuclear industry.

    Nothing like trying to kill an emerging economic engine to broaden a partiy’s base, not to mention donations.

    eta: I should state that analysts see *“It’s an optimistic report despite the fact we’re seeing job declines over the past two years,” said Andrea Luecke, CEO of The Solar Foundation. “That’s because the macro-picture since we first started tracking solar jobs in 2010 has exploded.”*

  21. 21
    Chyron HR says:


    Barack Obama 19
    Bernie Sanders 1

    Yes, but much like the Democratic primary, the results were “skewed” by letting too many black people vote.

  22. 22
    Kay says:


    They are building a huge solar plant outside Toledo.

    The contractor who are building it got the job based partly on the fact that THEY, the contractor, converted to solar. Their headquarters is solar. They want to be the go-to for those plants and also conversions. They’re huge themselves so they’re making a big bet. It’s so funny how it’s still treated as “alternative” when it’s so mainstream now :)

  23. 23
    Kay says:

    Schools closed again because we had a huge ice storm over night. I heard the ice hitting the windows. I don’t mind driving in snow but I hate ice, so February and March are worse winter weather than January.

  24. 24
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: From the end of that article:

    The study also found that even the Trump administration’s support of the coal industry, which lost about 20 working mines last year, has not necessarily been to the detriment of growth in the solar energy sector.

    “I don’t think people believe the Trump administration’s plan to revive coal is the smartest idea out there, and we now even have leaders in fossil fuel sectors saying solar is competitive and we need to integrate renewables into our business model,” says Luecke.

    According to Gilliland, recent policy goals issued by states to make energy consumption 100% renewable over the next three decades will also provide an important boost the sector. In September, California’s then governor, Jerry Brown, committed California to economy-wide carbon neutrality and 100% use of zero-carbon electricity by 2045.

    “If people know this is where we’re going then they can begin to figure out how to get there,” Gilliland said.

    @Kay: That is good to hear. They note that most of the layoffs have occured in states where solar is well established (CA, AZ, MA) but that it is still growing in others (FL, TX, IL). The main impact of trump uncertainty has been on large installations for utilities and such. My pig farming buddy just went fully solar recently. I hope to be able to as well.

  25. 25
    TS (the original) says:

    How can trump get voted #2 – I find this quite scary – despite all that is known,, has happened, people admire him??

  26. 26
    NotMax says:


    Some of us still consider touch tone phoning an alternative technology.


  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Donald Trump’s favourite TV show, Fox & Friends, has a reputation for giving airtime to conspiracy theories that benefit the White House agenda. But host Pete Hegseth may now have managed to upset the famously germaphobic president – by revealing that he has not washed his hands in a decade.

    The admission came as Hegseth discussed eating day-old pizza that had not been refrigerated. He did not see any issue with eating the pizza, he said, then added that he didn’t think he had washed his hands in 10 years.

    “Really,” he said. “I don’t really wash my hands ever.”

    Met with laughter, he explained: “I inoculate myself. Germs are not a real thing. I can’t see them, therefore they’re not real.”

    For once I hope this idiot soon has a meeting with old friends Sam and Ella.

    On Twitter on Monday, Hegseth gave mixed messages. He claimed he had been joking and paraphrased the president in blaming the media for being so “self-righteous and angry”. He also said he supported drinking from hosepipes and riding bikes without a helmet.

    He probably thinks dropping babies on their heads inoculates them against concussions because it didn’t hurt him any.

  28. 28
    NotMax says:


    One of my roommates in college, named Sam, actually did end up marrying a woman named Ella.

    Coming up next on FOX, discussion of whether the whole Hiroshima and Nagasaki thing was a hoax, since Hegseth insists he cannot see atoms.


  29. 29
    David Evans says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Muslims don’t like dogs. Suspicious, no?

  30. 30
    BR says:

    Looks like Etsy is matching my personal preference pretty well, at least in terms of the top three.

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @TS (the original): The 27% always will.

  32. 32
    BR says:


    I should have added — it seems like Warren should just call out that any other candidate would go ask a political consultant how to spin the various stupid media reports, but that she’s just responding straight up, like a person would. Maybe not the best strategy now, but it’s better than folks wondering if she’s too easily baited into stupid fights about nonsense issues.

  33. 33
    Immanentize says:

    Some say the world will end in fire,
    Some say in ice.

  34. 34
    Immanentize says:

    I have solar on my house now and even in the winter, it is covering 85% of my electric usage. And, in the next couple of months, I am having a battery wall installed which should carry me through just about everything. The question then is — do I convert my heat from natural gas to electric?

  35. 35
    NotMax says:


    ¿Por qué no los dos?

  36. 36
    Immanentize says:

    @TS (the original):
    I think people freeped the poll.

  37. 37
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  38. 38
    Immanentize says:

    Sadly that will probably the result.

    I think you will get the fire from Kilauea. I will get the ice from the vortex.

  39. 39
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I think that would depend on how long before it paid for itself.

  40. 40
    Tenar Arha says:

    @geg6: Daniel Dale has a summary of what he said.

    Trump: “By the way, there is nothing better than a good old-fashioned German shepherd. It’s hard to believe. It’s true.”

    !!! Trump: “Certain types of dogs. You do love your dogs, don’t you? I wouldn’t mind having one, honestly, but I don’t have any time. How would I look walking a dog on the White House lawn?…Feels a little phony to me…That’s not the relationship I have with my people.”

    Trump says he’s been advised to get a dog because it’s good politically, but “that’s not the relationship I have with my people,” his base.

    Trump on getting a dog, in summary:
    – I wouldn’t mind one but I don’t have any time
    – It would look phony for me to walk a dog
    – My base doesn’t need to see me with a dog

  41. 41
    Elizabelle says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning, rikyrah. It’s pouring in Richmond.

    Really love this weather when I don’t have to go out in it.

  42. 42
    debbie says:

    I was following Dale’s feed last night. How does he post so quickly with such command of both facts and the entirety of Trump’s past statements? It was truly awesome.

  43. 43
    Elizabelle says:

    @Tenar Arha: I do not think any dog should be subjected to Donald Trump.

    But: aren’t dogs one of the few sources of unconditional love? Not surprising, somehow, he never figured that out. He would have a dog following him from room to room, bathrooms too, and cannot get enough of his company. Never upstages him with wit, either. Dog could even be blonde.

  44. 44
    rikyrah says:

    Scared of it something fierce.
    Be safe, Kay

  45. 45
    Kay says:


    An Ohio construction firm that got its start working on nuclear and coal-fired power plants is now experiencing steady growth from solar and energy efficiency projects for industrial and institutional customers.
    Rudolph Libbe Group celebrated a ribbon-cutting ceremony last week at its new Northeast Ohio headquarters in suburban Cleveland. The renovated building is the first of three on what will be a seven-acre regional campus. The Toledo-based company outgrew its previous regional facilities, having gone from two employees in Northeast Ohio to more than 200 in less than 15 years. A large chunk of that growth has come from efficiency and renewable projects.
    Rudolph Libbe Group’s companies have had “a connection—a legacy—with the energy industry for a long time,” said Rudolph Libbe Group Chairman Bill Rudolph. “We’ve been part of this shift of the energy industry.”
    The Davis-Besse nuclear power plan was the largest customer in the early days of the GEM part of the company’s business. Then the company expanded into work at coal-fired power plants, including projects for FirstEnergy at its former Bay Shore and Eastlake plants and elsewhere. Over the years, the firm’s companies have also done extensive work at petroleum refineries in the Toledo area.

    I think it was a good bet, to be first. “GEM” is the electrical contracting arm of Rudolph Libbe and they’re considered good employers. You notice non-profits took the risk first though- the National Guard and a university. The first wind turbine I ever saw here was at a university. It was 15 years before anyone did them commercially, and now they’re all over the place. I do think people downplay the turbines effect on a place though- they are HUGE and acres of them absolutely dominate a flat landscape.

  46. 46
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Tenar Arha:

    – My base doesn’t need to see me with a dog

    Besides, wouldn’t that be a little redundant?

    (i know, that’s an insult to dogs everywhere)

  47. 47
    Kay says:


    I just drove to work at 25 miles an hour in a 35.

    You just have to bear up under the pressure of men in pickup trucks tailgating. Stand firm! :)

    I’m right! It’s 25 MPH weather. I’ll let them know when it’s safe to drive their usual 10 miles over the speed limit.

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  49. 49
    debbie says:

    @Tenar Arha:

    Did he even think for a nanosecond it be might be a good thing for Barron to have a dog?

  50. 50
    NotMax says:

    @Tenar Aha

    He left out the unspoken intimation that Obama was a lazy slacker who wasted time on a dog.

    Also too, calling German shepherds old-fashioned? The breed is barely over a century old, newer than telephones or electrification.

    …the Phylax Society was formed in 1891 with the intention of creating standardised dog breeds in Germany. The society disbanded after only three years due to ongoing internal conflicts regarding the traits in dogs that the society should promote; some members believed dogs should be bred solely for working purposes, while others believed dogs should be bred also for appearance. While unsuccessful in their goal, the Phylax Society had inspired people to pursue standardising dog breeds independently.

    Max von Stephanitz, an ex-cavalry captain and former student of the Berlin Veterinary College, was one such ex-member. He believed strongly that dogs should be bred for working.

    In 1899, Von Stephanitz was attending a dog show when he was shown a dog named Hektor Linksrhein. Hektor was the product of few generations of selective breeding and completely fulfilled what Von Stephanitz believed a working dog should be. He was pleased with the strength of the dog and was so taken by the animal’s intelligence, loyalty, and beauty, that he purchased him immediately. After purchasing the dog he changed his name to Horand von Grafrath and Von Stephanitz founded the Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (Society for the German Shepherd Dog). Horand was declared to be the first German Shepherd Dog and was the first dog added to the society’s breed register.

    Horand became the centre-point of the breeding programs and was bred with dogs belonging to other society members that displayed desirable traits. Although fathering many pups, Horand’s most successful was Hektor von Schwaben. Hektor was inbred with another of Horand’s offspring and produced Beowulf, who later fathered a total of eighty-four pups, mostly through being inbred with Hektor’s other offspring. In the original German Shepherd studbook, Zuchtbuch für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SZ), within the two pages of entries from SZ No. 41 to SZ No. 76, there are four Wolf Crosses. Beowulf’s progeny also were inbred and it is from these pups that all German Shepherds draw a genetic link.… Source

  51. 51
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    I do think people downplay the turbines effect on a place though- they are HUGE and acres of them absolutely dominate a flat landscape.

    It’s hard to find a place in Iowa without one.

  52. 52
    Baud says:

    John Delaney isn’t going to get 1% of the vote, but this Vox interview about his health care plan is revealing about the politics of health reform.

  53. 53
    debbie says:


    Colbert had a bit last night where someone is selling used Kleenex and pimping them as a way to build immunity.

    ETA: Link: http://www.fox5atlanta.com/fac.....flu-season

  54. 54
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @NotMax: two of the girls on my daughter’s soccer team are named Sam and Ella

  55. 55
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: The last time I drove in such weather, I ended up doing 55 mph while upside down. Lucky I didn’t get killed. Never again. No job is worth dying over.

  56. 56
    Baud says:

    Labor unions fear Democrats’ Green New Deal poses job threat
    Valerie Volcovici

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Labor unions say they are withholding support for a Green New Deal unveiled by Democrats last week to transition the American economy away from fossil fuels, arguing the loosely-defined plan could kill jobs if its architects aren’t careful.

  57. 57
    Baud says:

    Former Attorney General Eric Holder travels to Iowa on Tuesday as he weighs whether to join a growing field of Democrats seeking the presidential nomination in 2020, and he’s expected to make a decision in the next two weeks, NPR has learned.

  58. 58
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kay: I was driving through the mountains near Las Vegas a few years ago. At night, just after Christmas. Noticed from onboard thermometer it was just about freezing. Pickup trucks and SUVs flying past me, annoyed I was in their way.

    Caught up with them, spun out in ditches, not far ahead. Photographed the ice on the road, while I was stopped. And then the police closed the road just after I had passed through. Eeriest feeling ever: I was the last car on the road for the miles and miles of highway to Las Vegas. Never another set of headlights behind me. You can see for 15 miles or so there, easily.

    People do not treat the weather and particularly ice with the respect it deserves.

  59. 59
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    …the Phylax Society was formed in 1891 with the intention of creating standardised dog breeds in Germany. The society disbanded after only three years due to ongoing internal conflicts regarding the traits in dogs that the society should promote; some members believed dogs should be bred solely for working purposes, while others believed dogs should be bred also for appearance. While unsuccessful in their goal, the Phylax Society had inspired people to pursue standardising dog breeds independently.

    Max von Stephanitz, an ex-cavalry captain and former student of the Berlin Veterinary College, was one such ex-member. He believed strongly that dogs should be bred for working.

    He lost that bet. Nowadays to have a GS without the lowslung hindquarters is apostasy. Never mind that it leads to hip dysplasia.

  60. 60
    Elizabelle says:

    FWIW, that’s a bad etsy likeness of Elizabeth Warren. Who is blonde.

    It looks more like the late and great Wilma Mankiller, former Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. Was that the point?

  61. 61
    Betty Cracker says:

    Posted this on Twitter yesterday.

    The MAGA chuds changed their WiFi to this over the weekend and put up a giant Trump 2020 sign in their back yard facing my house. Luckily, there’s a swamp between us, so it’s mostly obscured by trees and not right in my face, but still!

    We don’t socialize with these neighbors and haven’t discussed politics with anyone around here. We don’t have stickers on our vehicles to indicate our political preferences. But it’s possible they overheard us raking Trump over the coals or something. Or looked us up online and learned we’re registered Democrats. Or maybe this has nothing to do with us at all. That’s my husband’s belief — he thinks they’re just gearing up for 2020 and that I’m paranoid to believe it’s directed at us.

    He also says I should ignore the WiFi thing. You’d think the man hadn’t lived with me for a quarter of a century! Of course I’m changing our fucking WiFi name! The only question is, to what?

    Thought y’all who aren’t on the Twitter might have some ideas to throw in. “ThePeeTapeIsReal” and “TrumpIsASentientWhoopeeCushion” are my front-runners so far. More ideas welcome!

  62. 62
    satby says:

    Ice storm overnight that’s turning to rain in a few minutes according to accuweather. Everything had a skim of ice outside, and the wind made the trees crackle. Kind of cool, but I’m not driving until the temperature is above freezing in a couple of hours.

  63. 63
    satby says:

    @Betty Cracker: TrumpTraitor is short and to the point.

  64. 64
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    ObamaBeatsTrump would really enrage him.

  65. 65
    TS (the original) says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: My fear is that it is more than 27% – I hope it’s just my paranoia

  66. 66

    @debbie: I was surprised he even knew Barron played soccer. So no, he didn’t think about a boy and his dog.

  67. 67
    Princess says:

    @Elizabelle: Elizabeth Warren was naturally very dark haired. The blonde is dyed. If you see an old photo of her, it looks just like that. FWIW (And yes, seeing the older photos, it does not shock me that she has some native people in her ancestry)

  68. 68
    danielx says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    You could always fall back on the classics: ObamaAkbar!

  69. 69
    Elizabelle says:

    @Betty Cracker: What fuckers.





    ETA: cleaned them up. _is_for_luddites.

  70. 70
    Elizabelle says:

    @danielx: That’s the best.

  71. 71
    bjacques says:

    @Betty Cracker: Change it for the season. TrumpsTaxRefund for now, TrumpShutdown next week (but I hope not), whatever suits the occasion. or even FbiFreeWifi.

  72. 72
  73. 73

    And my vote on Betty’s wifi name change seems to be in moderation.

  74. 74
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t think “TrumpIsASentientWhoopeeCushion” is factually accurate.

  75. 75
    JWR says:

    Fun little article about AOC’s mastery of Twitter. It ends thusly:

    And just when you think you’ve seen all the possible fact-checks, clapbacks, and details from her past, she comes out dancing.

  76. 76
    rikyrah says:

    It’s winter and you don’t live in a state with no real winter. How does solar cover any of your electric bill, let alone 85%?

  77. 77
    Elizabelle says:

    @Princess: Lighter hair is becoming to most of us after a certain age.

    Interesting re the earlier photos. Maybe once some of them get out, and some viewers can make the connection …

  78. 78
    Immanentize says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Sort of subtle but how about
    Goes to Trump and the wifi

  79. 79
    Another Scott says:

    @Betty Cracker: Don’t let them get in your head. If you change it, make it something positive.

    KamalaForThePeople if you like her.


    Stuff like that. Don’t mention Donnie. He and his minions want everything to be about him – it’s not, of course.


  80. 80
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker: How’s about PutinGrabbedUsByThePussy?

  81. 81

    I just retyped my nym etc to see if that will keep every post I make from going into moderation.

    ETA: And it worked. That was interesting. Two posts went to moderation. I thought I’d been put on the naughty list.

  82. 82
    Baud says:

    @Another Scott:

    Or to really twist the knife: MuellerEstáVenido

  83. 83
    Jeffro says:

    Here’s some creative numbers for you: far more Americans trust Mueller than trumpov: we’re almost down to the crazification factor, it’s GO TIME!

    In short:

    new WashPost poll:

    impeach Trump if he obstructed justice?
    65% yes, 29% no

    impeach Trump if he coordinated w/Russia?
    61% yes, 33%

    O happy day!

  84. 84
    Baud says:


    Wait, coordination with Russia is far worse than obstructing justice.

  85. 85
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Two years and the useless idiot still doesn’t get this isn’t enternment. So F-ing what Trump. The crowd size that matters is the one at the polling booth.

  86. 86
    Betty Cracker says:

    Good ideas — thanks, everybody!

    @bjacques: I like this idea too, but it’s such a pain in the ass to change the WiFi name since you have to reconfigure the connection for every device.

  87. 87
    danielx says:

    I have to admit – this is one of those days when I started thinking about five minutes after I woke:

    How did this happen? How did sixty million people decide that this….this fucking oaf, this fool, this con man, this lying manchild famous for ignoring contracts, debts, payment schedules and marriage vows, how is it they decided he was worthy to hold the same office as Lincoln, Roosevelt and Obama for that matter? Did they really think he cared for his oath of office any more than he cared for those other things? Are there really that many people out there who are stupid enough to confuse reality television with reality, and to confuse a four-time business failure with a business genius? Donald Trump has been known as an asshole for decades; if there was an Asshole Hall of Fame he’d be in the top ten. How did evangelicals decide this guy was worthy of adoration?

    I have lived too long.

  88. 88
    Baud says:

    @danielx: Yep. I feel the same every day.

  89. 89
    Citizen_X says:

    @Betty Cracker: MeltDownTheGuns

  90. 90
    Baud says:


  91. 91
    danielx says:

    Yet another column by my man David Brooks where you don’t have to read the article, just the title (no link for Dave):

    How The Left Embraced Elitism

    Did I or did I not see SOTU the other night? Did I or did I not see people of every description on one side of the aisle, including a lot of women in white, and on the other, a sea of white men in dark suits?

  92. 92
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Thanx for this. He makes some legitimate points but I found his handwaving at the cost of healthcare in this country as compared to other 1st world countries a little bit problematic.

  93. 93
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Tenar Arha:
    Trump, bless his heart, is not fit company for a decent upstanding canine.

  94. 94
    Lapassionara says:

    @Betty Cracker: Twitter tells me that Trump’s 2020 campaign slogan will be “Stronger Together.” Irony is dead, but if you used strongertogether, maybe their heads would explode?

  95. 95
    Baud says:


    Agree. I thought his point about the politics of Medicare was accurate, although I’m sure any health reform will be demonized in that manner.

    One of the difficult things we’ll have to deal with is distinguishing between legitimate and specious concerns, as well as between good and bad faith arguments.

  96. 96
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    I don’t not care what you see or read tomorrow (today) about the anti-Wall rally and Beto. And Trump.

    It is perfectly clear to anyone who took part in the anti-Wall rally, then watched the subsequent TV and streaming reports that the MSM is nothing but a bunch of goddamn liars. And I’m sorry to say, that includes MSNBC, AP, and the Washington Post. I used to not believe this, but their coverage (as of last night) is a fucking disgrace.

    The crowd size for Beto’s anti-wall march was easily 10 grand. Most of the cops I spoke with confirmed that with a few estimating 12 to 15. It started off kinda lame, but swelled very, very quickly. And the fucking energy! An honest-to-God snapshot of America. Interestingly enough, I saw way more American flags at the anti-Wall rally than I did at Trump’s (more on that later). A couple of people were flying upside down American flags, and although I completely sympathize with the sentiment, I wish they would please knock that shit off!

    And the signs! Incredible artwork on a lot of them. Other were just damn clever! As many Trump is a racist/Nazi/KKK as there were anti-wall signs. And many, many signs saying IMPEACH. See if you see any of that shit on TV today.

    Beto was electric. Watch it! Say what you will about the man, but he is electric! There was a lot of talk that he might announce, but I’m glad he didn’t. Somehow I feel it would have cheapened the rally. The sun went down before he spoke (it goes down quick in El Paso because of the mountains) and the crowd thinned out some (weekday too – school, jobs, etc.). But I’m going to guess 5 to 6 grand stuck around. Easy. The man really gets a crowd worked up.

    Just as Beto was finishing up, I got tapped to check the crowds outside the Trump rally. So me and a buddy ditched our cameras and phones and double-timed it over there (less than a mile, but we’re old men), donning our MAGA gear. It was a little nippy, and we didn’t go full ‘Waking Ned Devine’ but it came close. Got a few strange looks as we dashed past, and one cop, after giving us the hairy eyeball, bust out laughing. He figured out what we were doing.

    BTW: Just about every elected offical in El Paso, even their Republican Congresscriter (whom I’ve met and like) HATES what Trump is saying about their town. I heard their was some Decree or something, denouncing his visit, but I haven’t seen it so don’t quote me.

    We got to Trump’s event and after quickly determining our escape route and a rally point should something (heh-heh) go sideways on us, we started mingling and meandering our way through the crowd.
    Trump was on loud speakers and flat screens everywhere, just booming. As a matter of fact, earlier we could hear the music from Trump’s rally at Beto’s. Some of the MAGA were staring at the the screens, hanging on every word, but most of the attendees outside were clustered in small groups, talking s themselves. I wasn’t paying attention to Trump as I was counting heads, but I heard all sorts of crazy shit.

    There was something about sending someone ‘home to mama’ and the crowd cheered. I figured it was a protestor. I had heard earlier that a number of protestors had already been ejected before Trump took the stage even. Then something about how he would like to own a German Shepard, but it would be phony to walk it on the White House lawn? WTF??? Worst reason not to own a pet ever! Then I heard what sounded like another protestor disruption, and Trump said something about ‘crying’? It was fucking surreal. You compare Beto’s speech… hell, any speech to Trump’s and you plainly see the man is just a babbling ass.

    About a half hour later we met back up and went over our figures for the areas we had covered, The sad news was we both agreed there were about 6 to 8 grand outside. Mostly white, but with about a one-in-three or four Hispanic mix. I kinda expected that, but it’s disheartening to see it anyway. The only black faces I saw were vendors selling water and t-shirts. A shit-load of MAGA’s were crowed around the taco trucks too, which I thought was just HILARIOUS! WISH I HAD MY FUCKING CAMERA!!!

    The parking lot was about 3/4 to 4/5 full, the remainder blocked off for official use. The line went back about six to seven city blocks. We heard it had been longer earlier.

    Then the good news; we figured a good portion of Trump’s crowd were lookie-loos, people trying to get in just to see Trump. I don’t want to venture a percentage, but enough that we both noticed.

    Then my buddy asked me, “How many people do you think are in there?” I looked the place over and told him I didn’t think it would hold anywhere near 10 grand. I guessed it was half that. One cop said 7500 max, but another, really young cop (possible reserve wannabe) said he heard some safety guy talking about 6,600 was all they were going to let in for tonight.

    There was such a feeling of anger and despair at Trump’s thing as opposed to the high energy at the march. There were a few isolated pockets of die hard supporters, but a lot of people there seemed to me to be kinda shell-shocked (it got really cold too after the sun went down). And although there’s still a lot of anger, it’s much, much less than it was last summer. Mainly, they just seem afraid. And more now seem to want to engage in some form of one-sided dialogue as opposed to just outright screaming at you.

    They are losing. And they know it.

    P.S. – to my spelling and grammar Nazi jackals; terribly sorry if there are errors. I dashed this out on my iPad mini early this morning. Please forgive. Oh, and fuck you.

    P.S.S. – And I never did see the Trump blimp, damnit!

    Bed now.

  97. 97
    Jeffro says:

    @Baud: I agree with you. Perhaps some small portion of the people polled believe obstruction is more likely to have happened, and instead of answering the poll correctly, they’re skewing their responses according to whether or not they believe it occurred? Who knows…

    @danielx: I saw that and was gonna follow the same game plan: no need to read this BS, that’s for sure. When karma catches up with Brooksie it’s going to have to be something like leprosy + bankruptcy coupled with a woodchipper accident. Wishful thinking, I know.

  98. 98

    @danielx: @danielx: It’s like living in opposite world. The gaslighting is constant.

  99. 99
    zhena gogolia says:

    @The Midnight Lurker:

    Wow, really interesting account, thank you.

  100. 100
    Sebastian says:

    @Betty Cracker:


  101. 101

    @The Midnight Lurker: Thanks for the report. To me, the most interesting things are not the crowd size (though again, thanks) but the differences in speech substance and crowd mood. Substance vs shit stirring. Hope vs hapless fury.

  102. 102
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    One of the difficult things we’ll have to deal with is distinguishing between legitimate and specious concerns, as well as between good and bad faith arguments.

    In a society as “tribalized” as ours that is going to be THE problem

  103. 103
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Baud: unions have an unfortunate tendency to miss big shifts and are usually highly risk averse. It gets frustrating on my end when I’m trying to adapt a contract to the current world and they are stuck in 1970.

    Obviously the biggest problem that unions have is the republican legislative and judicial assault on their very existence, but another big problem is their failure to demonstrate their relevance to workers in the modern economy,

  104. 104
    Betty says:

    @danielx: I know that feeling.

  105. 105
    Baud says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    What makes these stories frustrating is that we’re constantly told by some people that we failed the unions. The reality is more complex.

  106. 106
    Immanentize says:

    We get about 9 hours of sunlight a day at the darkest day. My panels face south west at a pretty good angle so I get great afternoon and evening sun, maybe about 7 hours worth of some energy each day?

    Even snow covered, some light gets to the panels. Then it heats them a bit and the snow and ice slide off much quicker than just snow on my roof.

  107. 107
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    thought I’d been put on the naughty list.

    Just how many times did you link to “The Loophole?”

  108. 108
    Betty says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: Thanks for an honest to goodness report.

  109. 109
    Mary G says:

    Gabby Gifford’s husband, retired astronaut Mark Kelly, has announced he’s running for Senate in Arizona. Seems like a contender.

  110. 110
    TS (the original) says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: Great account – many thanks

  111. 111
    satby says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    but another big problem is their failure to demonstrate their relevance to workers in the modern economy

    I have a very hard time convincing my younger son that unions have value and he works at the Toyota assembly plant in Kentucky. He was born a few months after Reagan fired the air traffic controllers and has only known weakened, ineffectual unions his whole life.

  112. 112
  113. 113
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Unions are very myopic, caring only about jobs. They will support any Republican if they are pushing for big infrastructure projects in their home district.

  114. 114
    sherparick says:

    @danielx: Because the “White Fundamentalist-Evangelical” church in America has been factory for creating assholes for over 200 years once creating a justification of slavery and patriarchy became its “raison d’etre.” See those pictures of lynch mobs from the 19th and early 20th centuries. All made up of “good, God-fearing, regular Sunday church people.” Its so easy to do the most awful things to other human beings if you believe you are doing it in the name of God.

  115. 115
    Immanentize says:

    @Steve in the ATL: @Baud:
    The structure of unions is inherently self-destructive. Not only are unions super conservative to protect current members, but union leaders are themselves management and have problems viewing the big picture outside of their (hard earned no doubt) power in the Union structure. I think European Unions largely solved this last dilemma by bring unions into the management team structure. But in any case,
    I’m a Union Man all the way!

  116. 116

    @satby: The most effective union action I’ve seen recently has come, not from the traditional heavy industry groups, but from teachers. And yesterday, the flight attendants association (is it a union?) said they wouldn’t work if the govt shut down again because it was unsafe. Maybe some of this is non-union but union-like. I’m thinking of the fast food workers demanding $15/hr. I don’t know what to conclude from that. Unions and our ideas about them need to change? Maybe our ideas about unions resemble our ideas of “working class,” ie white men in jobs that demand physical strength.

  117. 117
    Elizabelle says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: You are courage itself to have braved that crowd. Thank you for the report.

    They are losing. If MSM reported accurately, as Lurker notes, it would be more evident.

  118. 118
    Immanentize says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: thanks for that. What’s the old line?
    They got the guns, but we got the numbers.

  119. 119
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    The SEIU has done a lot of good work with service workers in the Boston area -+ including effective strike actions.

    Just an FYI because you are a teacher — the AAUP, which has been the traditional bargaining union for faculty, is getting stiff competition from the SEIU. Our contingent (adjunct) faculty unionized and management was so happy that the lecturers went with the AAUP because the SEIU has had much more demanding and therefore contentious negotiations. Good for the SEIU, I say.

  120. 120
  121. 121
    Kay says:


    Caught up with them, spun out in ditches, not far ahead

    It happens to me all the time in Michigan. They’re the freaking worst about that. The area around Grand Rapids MI is like “every 10th car is in a ditch”

    They’re nice though. I flipped a car once there- I was unhurt although the 15 pounds of change in my purse flew around and pelted me. So many people stopped to help. Probably because they’ve all done it :)

  122. 122
    Kay says:


    arguing the loosely-defined plan could kill jobs if its architects aren’t careful.

    This is really mild criticism. We’re probably going to have to weather the brutal battering of “I have some concerns!” if we want a Green New Deal :)

    They’re not obligated to rubber stamp it, and it IS vague and ill-defined. They’re allowed to weigh in. Weighing in is literally their job- they’re advocates.

  123. 123
    The Moar You Know says:

    I have no idea what the Bernistas are doing

    They just borrow Jesus’ cross when it suits them. Kind of the same way they use the Democratic party.

  124. 124
    Ruckus says:

    I thought that the only emotion that drumpf lovers hold is hate. After all look at who they admire.

  125. 125
    geg6 says:


    My sister has solar and her whole house, except her stove, is run by electric. And we definitely have winter here. And her highest electric bill in the two years she’s had it has been $15. It’s pretty amazing that you can do that here in Western PA.

  126. 126
    Elizabelle says:

    @Ruckus: Their emotion is actually “fear.” Fear can easily be turned into hate.

  127. 127
    different-church-lady says:

    Is this like the Puppy Bowl?

  128. 128
    Ruckus says:

    I think that ship has sailed a while ago.

  129. 129
    Ruckus says:

    A lot of people like dogs. drumpf knows that if he had a dog, people would like the dog more than him. Far more than him.
    Besides I’d bet he’s afraid of dogs, thinking that they’d all turn on him in short order, dogs know who is good and who isn’t. So does the shitwhistle, he knows who he is, he just can’t help himself from being the asshole he is.

  130. 130
    piratedan says:

    @Betty Cracker: I would go with BankruptedacasinoX4 to get your message across :-)

  131. 131
    Citizen scientist says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: thanks for the onsite reporting.

    Saw earlier that Donnie’s closest advisor, Sean H., is panning the proposed funding bill. Guess we’re going to have another shutdown this week!

  132. 132
    J R in WV says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    My tip on a great Wi-Fi name:

    FBI Domestic Terrorism Surveillance Unit B723

  133. 133
    Citizen Alan says:


    I like the mental image of Shitgibbon being unable to approach a dog — hell, any dog, even down to a miniature poodle — without it suddenly barking aggressively at him. Dogs can sense sociopaths, I think.

  134. 134
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Immanentize: Our faculty unionized about two years ago, but adjuncts (moi included) remain outside that tent and – you will be shocked to hear – grossly underpaid.

  135. 135
    Chacal Charles Calthrop says:

    @Betty Cracker: how about FBISurveillanceVan?

  136. 136

    @Kay: Agreed, Green New Deal is great sloganeering like Medicare for All, but the details are fuzzy.

  137. 137
    NotMax says:

    @Betty Cracker

    Trumpsux. Short and to the point.

  138. 138
    Chacal Charles Calthrop says:

    @J R in WV: And you beat me to it! by two minutes!

  139. 139
    WaterGirl says:

    @J R in WV: I love that!!

  140. 140
    Brachiator says:

    @The Midnight Lurker:

    I don’t not care what you see or read tomorrow (today) about the anti-Wall rally and Beto. And Trump.

    It is perfectly clear to anyone who took part in the anti-Wall rally, then watched the subsequent TV and streaming reports that the MSM is nothing but a bunch of goddamn liars. And I’m sorry to say, that includes MSNBC, AP, and the Washington Post. I used to not believe this, but their coverage (as of last night) is a fucking disgrace.

    Thanks for the eye-witness report.

    I am not a big Twitter user, but social media is supposed to be good with breaking on-the-spot impressions, so I wonder whether some Twitter feeds were more honest than many media reports.

    CBS radio news this morning in Los Angeles was pretty fair about crowd size, and noted that local GOP officials who attended Trump’s rally were on record as disputed His Orange Majesty’s claims of crime in the area or the effectiveness of walls.

  141. 141
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Ruckus: The dog is to the show the Great Man is like the family, signs he is an actual alpha chimp and can provide for others and not thinking only about himself. So pretty much Trump the useless idiot fails even that.

    And let us note you never seen Trump with Baron. Now I don’t know any man over 65 who doesn’t dote on his kids and grand kids. It’s like lack of a mother figure in Trump’s circle, that’s weird in a guy.

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