Toxic Target Open Thread: Certified Doctors Join In the Mockery


159 replies
  1. 1

    I assume that Trump’s people wrote the note and put it in front of the doc to sign.

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  2. 2
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Is the over/under on the end of Emperor Tang’s reign August 9? I’ll take the under, please.

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  3. 3
    Mike in NC says:

    The duration of his presidency should be the summer of 2019.

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  4. 4
    randy khan says:

    The contrast of the medical reports for Trump and those for Obama is striking, to say the least. Here’s Obama’s from 2016:

    The report

    G.W. Bush’s reports were similar to Obama’s, and actually had more detail. Here’s his 2001 report:

    Bush II 2001

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  5. 5
    zhena gogolia says:

    @randy khan:

    Well, it does say he’ll remain healthy for the duration of his presidency. But it has a lot more data attached! 175 pounds! Man!

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  6. 6
    Bill Arnold says:

    Re “in very good health… will remain so for the duration of his Presidency, and beyond.”
    Nowhere is two (or six) years mentioned. That read to me as possibly passive-aggressive.

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  7. 7

    @Mike in NC: I like the way you think.

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  8. 8
    Brachiator says:

    The note from the doctor should have included the stamp “I am God Emperor Trump and I approve this diagnosis.”

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  9. 9
    WaterGirl says:

    From LGM just now:

    “I woke up this morning
    And I tried to be woke
    I woke up this morning
    And I tried to be woke
    Seems I’ll never really know
    The souls of black folk”

    Ralph Northam, 21st Century Schizoid Blues

    Seriously, he’s a nearly 60-year-old upper class white guy from Virginia. You’re basically trying to teach a chimp to land a 747.

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  10. 10
    mrmoshpotato says:

    Waiting for this tweet:

    “My doctor wrote me a beautiful note, the best note (We fell in love. Don’t tell Kim Jong Un.) confirming that everyone who didn’t vote for me is a total loser, and I have the classiest, most luxurious, tremendous bigliest health of all. I’m the best. Believe me. And I’m going to live forever so your beloved Emperor doesn’t even have to appoint his kids to succeed him. You’re welcome my grateful, adoring subjects.”

    No, I didn’t read the note. I like my blood pressure at its current level.

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  11. 11
    Brachiator says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I assume that Trump’s people wrote the note and put it in front of the doc to sign

    Trump is probably old school.

    Michael Corleone: “Luca Brasi held a gun to his head, and my father told him that either his brains or his signature would be on the contract…”

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  12. 12
    p.a. says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    175 pounds!

    Really? That’s moon*-pounds, right?

    *Earth’s?

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  13. 13
    Marvel says:

    Amazing/impossible prediction aside…anyone ever see a doctor convey his/her patient’s appreciation/thanks to the medical staff in such a memo? [“….The president is very grateful for the outstanding care he received today and he especially wants to thank all the doctors, nurses, enlisted and civilian staff who participated….”]

    Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.

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  14. 14
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Do any of you think the importance of the presidency should override the president’s right to medical privacy?

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  15. 15
    Brachiator says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Seriously, he’s a nearly 60-year-old upper class white guy from Virginia. You’re basically trying to teach a chimp to land a 747.

    Empathy and understanding ain’t that difficult.

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  16. 16
    Aleta says:

    Let’s run government like an business. Like an ad agency handling a defective product.

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  17. 17
    Brachiator says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Do you any of you think the importance of the presidency should override the president’s right to medical privacy?

    No.

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  18. 18
    B.B.A. says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: JFK was in much poorer health than he let on. It was kept secret for purposes of national security. I guess I’m okay with this.

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  19. 19
    FelonyGovt says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Yes, just as Presidents (and candidates) should disclose their tax returns, which ordinarily are kept private. The extent to which detail is made public can be debated, but the public has an interest in knowing that the President is physically fit for the demands of the job.

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  20. 20
    Ruckus says:

    @zhena gogolia:
    175??????
    I’m supposedly 3 inches shorter than his fat ass, don’t have a noticeable gut and weigh more than 175.
    What the hell happened to the 64 lbs he’s lost since last year?
    He didn’t do it with exercise and diet.
    His daily output of bullshit weighs more than 175.

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  21. 21
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @p.a.: That’s very kind. I was thinking Pluto pounds. Check out that relative gravity.

    https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/planet_table_ratio.html

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  22. 22

    @zhena gogolia: No way is he 175. More like 275 +

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  23. 23
    MJS says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: I think we shouldn’t be saddled with a president who goes out of his way to lie. If there is a need for a presidential physical, then it can be done, and the report can be “there are no health concerns”. Instead, this is the second instance where we have to hear blatant lies. It would be funny if it wasn’t so tiresome.

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  24. 24
    MattF says:

    Yeah, the last sentences of that letter do look like they were drafted by the Orange Menace. And all-board-certified is nice, but, honestly, minimal. And that’s pretty much the total content. Makes one wonder who is actually driving the bus.

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  25. 25
    geg6 says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    For real it says 175 pounds?!?!?!? No f-ing way. Can’t they at least try to make the lie somewhere in the vicinity of the possible? I’m quite sure he weighs substantially more than forty pounds more than me.

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  26. 26
    James E Powell says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Do any of you think the importance of the presidency should override the president’s right to medical privacy?

    Wasn’t this covered in an episode of The West Wing?

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  27. 27

    @Ruckus: @schrodingers_cat: @p.a.: Wait! It’s Obama’s report that says 175. Trump’s doesn’t say nothing.

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  28. 28
    MazeDancer says:

    Amy Klobuchar gave a great speech.

    They are going to love her in the heartland.

    And she reeled off all the liberal talking points, plus some new ones. wants to take on Big Tech and privacy issues.

    She’s running as the “I have grit” – she actually said that, quite effectively – underdog.

    No one is going to ask if she is likeable, she is the very definition of likeable.

    But have to say the “crazy boss” stuff gives me pause. Release the emails. Because someone will, and sooner is better.

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  29. 29
    karen marie says:

    @Mike in NC: I vote for late winter.

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  30. 30
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Reading is fundamental. PBO was 175.

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  31. 31
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @B.B.A.: There’s a bit more about Dump that’re national security risks…

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  32. 32
    geg6 says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Oh, that makes sense. Jesus, I was truly insulted at the idea. I mean, he’s got to weigh at least a hundred pounds more than I do.

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    Ruckus says:

    @FelonyGovt:
    Hence the regular physicals.
    I am torn between any reporting and all reporting on the president’s physical. But when plain sight tells you one thing and such blatant lies say another and in a way that no doc I’ve ever had in 69 yrs has done, and I’ve had a lot of them, I lean towards all the results being open. GWB’s are on the internet and I’ve never had all of that done in one time frame. If this were a real physical of that nature the information is there. This is bullshit.

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  34. 34
    Suzanne says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Do any of you think the importance of the presidency should override the president’s right to medical privacy?

    No. especially because he isn’t unfit for the presidency due to his weight, or cholesterol, or rosacea, or any other medical issue. He’s unfit for the presidency because he’s terrible.

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  35. 35
    Brachiator says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Do any of you think the importance of the presidency should override the president’s right to medical privacy?

    I meant to say yes.

    Trying to post and give a brunch order to a waitress.

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Since when do physician-signed medical reports include the patient’s expressions of gratitude to “all the doctors, nurses, enlisted and civilian staff who participated”?

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    Brachiator says:

    @Brachiator:
    Wait I meant no.

    I should stop trying to eat, read and post.

    ReplyReply
  38. 38

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:
    I think the President has the same theoretical right to medical privacy as anyone. However, most Presidents have chosen to share some of their medical records to reassure the public that they’re in good enough health to continue carrying out their duties. If the President does that, he has a responsibility to be forthright with the public and share his doctors’ honest opinion. He should not be trying to pass off a fantasy as a serious medical opinion, and Trump’s continued tendency to do this achieves the exact opposite of his theoretical goal.

    ETA: I’m also troubled by the way he corrupts the people around him by getting them to tell transparent lies on his behalf. It’s incredibly destructive to our institutions of government.

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  39. 39
    Ruckus says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    That’s more like it.
    I knew I didn’t like President Obama for something. He’s in better shape than I am. Of course that isn’t that difficult these days, given our age difference and how often I show up at the VA………

    ReplyReply
  40. 40
    sdhays says:

    @Brachiator: Flip flopper! //

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  41. 41
    karen marie says:

    @Ruckus: I tried to do a side-by-side comparison of photos of his fat ass from January 2018 and today but I use the Chrome add-on that changes photos of Individual-1 to kittens, so that didn’t work. But I don’t need photos to know there is no way that shitwhistle lost 64 pounds since last year.

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    feebog says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I would bet 10 bucks right now that Trump weighs in at 288. His ass alone is close to a 100.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    Ruckus says:

    @Ruckus:
    President Obama’s last exam is on the internet as well.

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    Suzanne says:

    @Roger Moore: I could see women candidates being forced to disclose their reproductive history if every candidate was forced to make their medical history public knowledge.

    Alls I want to know is if someone is healthy enough to do the job.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    dmsilev says:

    Hey, good news folks! According to famously objective source Donald Trump, the fact that Donald Trump’s schedule is made of almost entirely of Executive Time(tm) is proof of how hard he works:

    When the term Executive Time is used, I am generally working, not relaxing. In fact, I probably work more hours than almost any past President…..

    Keeping all of the Fox Friends straight is Hard Work, so we should be more understanding of the stresses he’s facing.

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    Bruuuuce says:

    @Ruckus:

    What the hell happened to the 64 lbs he’s lost since last year?
    He didn’t do it with exercise and diet.

    Magic Big Macs. It’s the only explanation.

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    Suzanne says:

    @karen marie:

    shitwhistle

    Win.

    ReplyReply
  48. 48

    @WaterGirl:

    I don’t know… He knows he screwed up, and he’s willing to very publicly try to learn to be better. Should he have to? No. But we all grew up in this country, where we breathe casual racism our whole lives, because it’s in the air. I was hoping he’d do something like this. Having an important, influential person so publicly take it upon himself to try to grow and be better could really get us on the right track. At least that’s what I hope.

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  49. 49
    sdhays says:

    @feebog: Maybe we’re all failing to take into account the lightness of his cranium…

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  50. 50
    dmsilev says:

    @sdhays: It would have to contain the long-fabled antigravity material in order to properly compensate.

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  51. 51
    raven says:

    @sdhays: It’s unbearable. . .

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    Ruckus says:

    @karen marie:
    Yeah, it’s far, far to obvious that he’s his same old fat ass self.
    In any way measurable.
    I like shitwhistle. I’m partial to asswipe though- because he’s as useful as used TP.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    sdhays says:

    @raven: Indeed!

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    Ruckus says:

    @feebog:
    That’s a hard call, I thought the consensus is that he’s all ass.

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  55. 55
    Suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: “Asswipe” always reminds me of the SNL sketch with Nicolas Cage in which we learn that he is named Asswipe, pronounced “As-wee-pay”.

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  56. 56
    sdhays says:

    @Ruckus: It makes me wonder what it’s going to be next year (assuming his ass is still in the Oval Office). Will he be down under 150? Have the stamina of a 20 year old? Abs you can cut diamonds with? Ability to run 2 consecutive marathons without breaking a sweat – and win!? At this point, they’re not bothering to even pretend these are factual, so why not just go all the way?

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    tobie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    PBO was 175.

    Good catch there.

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    Mnemosyne says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    It depends on whether or not any specific health condition affects his ability to carry out his duties. I think it was wrong for the government to conceal the extent of FDR’s disability, but given the culture of the time and the fact that all physically disabled people were treated as lesser beings, I can understand why they did it, especially given that it didn’t affect his ability to make decisions.

    I don’t need to know if Trump is using ED drugs. I do need to know if he can’t pass a cognitive test, or has a cancer diagnosis with a poor prognosis, or has an end-stage fatal disease. Those are all things that affect the country as a whole.

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    SamR says:

    @randy khan: Obama’s does conclude with the same “healthy for the duration of his Presidency” line.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    sdhays says:

    @Mnemosyne: JFK’s crippling pain and dependency on medication was something that I’m not sure the public didn’t have a right to know about.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Roger Moore:

    One of the ways that I know I have a good boss is that she has specifically said that she never wants to put me in a position where I feel like I have to lie on her behalf. That is a very relieving thing to know when one is in an administrative position.

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    Aleta says:

    “And while we have made a lot of progress in Virginia, slavery has ended. Schools have been desegregated. We have ended the Jim Crow laws, easier access to voting. It is abundantly clear that we still have a lot of work to do and I really think this week raised a level of awareness in the Commonwealth and in this country that we haven’t seen certainly in my lifetime.”

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  63. 63
    WaterGirl says:

    @Brachiator:

    eat, read and post

    Title of your next book or movie?

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    Ruckus says:

    @Bruuuuce:
    Magic Big Macs.
    Hmmmmm. I do know that McDs has made me violently ill. Twice. Florescent green projectile vomiting. Two different states, a year apart. Haven’t stepped foot into a McDs in 25 yrs as a result. And I did lose weight. Not enough to go from drumpf’s fat ass to my current svelte figure but still.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65

    @Roger Moore:
    Actually, let me expand on this a bit more. I think there are some health conditions the President does not have a legal right to conceal from the public. In particular, if the President becomes truly incapable of carrying out the duties of office, the public has a right to know. This general situation is set out in the 25th Amendment, and those rules were set out for good reasons.

    ReplyReply
  66. 66

    @Suzanne:
    I agree that current health is what matters. Some things from a medical history might have a long-term effect on current health- metastatic cancer would be a good example- but in general events in the long past shouldn’t be important.

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    raven says:

    @Ruckus: I quit drinking and drugging after I broke out in hives after eating Big Macs twice! It wasn’t the only reason I quit but that was part of it.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Massive crowd for Amy Klobuchar in Frostbite Falls (photo)

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    Ruckus says:

    @Suzanne:
    Don’t recall that skit.
    I was going for the standard meaning of asswipe, the one we all first picture when we hear it. Or at least I do.

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Ruckus:

    No, I was referring to the Obama report that someone posted.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    pat says:

    @randy khan:

    Wow, and it was written by Ronny L. Jackson, who fudged the trump report.

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    Chris Wolf says:

    He’s got a Kentucky Fried gall bladder and an extra crispy colon.

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    zhena gogolia says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’ve really confused everyone. I’m responding to the report on Obama posted by randy khan. Even Trump wouldn’t try to claim he weighs 175.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    zhena gogolia says:

    @geg6:

    No, that was Obama (cited by randy khan)! Sorry I responded to that comment — everyone’s misunderstanding me.

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    JPL says:

    @WaterGirl: Watching his wife give him thumbs up or say comments like inappropriate time, Ralph is socially inept. I’m not sure he’s racist, but definitely on the spectrum.

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    pat says:

    @Ruckus:

    OBAMA was 175. Go read the report!

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    Ruckus says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    Damn, that’s hard core. Out in the open, it’s snowing she’s not hiding under as much as a canopy. Notice the snow on the hats of the people in the audience, it’s snowing as she speaks. My estimation just went up a few notches. Only thing I wonder is, why outdoors? There has to be a gym or auditorium available somewhere near there. Although I did once work an event in MP/SP at the indoor stadium, in January, and there isn’t enough room in the building for all the competitors and equipment at the same time so all the back stage stuff was outside. Nice day, low 20s, not snowing, overcast.

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  78. 78
    TriassicSands says:

    @Mike in NC:

    I think that is unlikely. Mueller’s investigation isn’t likely to wrap up before 2030 at the earliest. If they decide to investigate everything that could push it back to 2050 or beyond. Fortunately, the president is immortal and will still be around to be held accountable. We’ll all be gone but Mueller’s grandkids or great-grandkids can finish the job.

    I am honored to announce that the president is an obese POS and will remain an obese POS for the remainder of his life.

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @B.B.A.:
    @Brachiator:
    @Mnemosyne:
    @Roger Moore:

    I think some things should be left to the president’s discretion. Mostly non-life threatening medical issues. But stuff that could impact his ability to govern/threaten his life should be not be withheld from the public. They should be fully disclosed. And it should be required by law, not this weak norm bs.

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  80. 80
    Suzanne says:

    @JPL: He can be socially awkward without being “on the spectrum”.

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    Brachiator says:

    @WaterGirl:

    eat, read and post

    Title of your next book or movie?

    Not a bad idea. Hmmm.

    ReplyReply
  82. 82
    FelonyGovt says:

    @Mnemosyne: Exactly. We don’t need every detail, but the things you mentioned are important to know. In our current situation, there’s a lot of well-founded speculation about dementia or other cognitive impairment.

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    delk says:

    Which of the board certified specialists got to check his prostate?

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  84. 84
    raven says:

    @Ruckus: optics

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  85. 85
    artem1s says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I think there are some health conditions the President does not have a legal right to conceal from the public.

    We’ve had at least one GOP President since WWII who was significantly cognitively impaired. Raygun should have been 25th’d sometime in his first term but instead we had Poppy running drugs and guns to our enemies out of the VP’s seat. I think Bush would have been under a lot more scrutiny if he’d been President. Same with W and Cheney. The GOP is setting a precedent of using puppet regimes to distract the populous- while they strip the citizen’s of this country of their assets and rights. This time the puppet is likely in thrall of a foreign actor and probably heavily medicated and completely incapable of discerning fact from fiction. Yes, the mental health of the President and his ability to make sound cognitive decisions is the business of the public. Not to mention this asshole has access to the nuclear codes.

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  86. 86
    raven says:

    @delk: Danny DeVito is great as one in The Kominsky Method!

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  87. 87
    WaterGirl says:

    @pat: Excellent catch!

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  88. 88

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: OMG they really must like her. I am not venturing out in that weather unless I have to.

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  89. 89
    Ruckus says:

    @pat:
    You’ll notice that since then I actually did. I was going on what a poster erroneously posted. Which while obvious bullshit, was a believable claim on the part of drumpf because he’s all bullshit, all the time. Just like last year when he/the doc claimed he’s 239. Cause if that’s true he wears his suits/circus tents awfully loose and packs them with zero gravity foam. A lot of foam.

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  90. 90
    Ruckus says:

    @raven:
    Well of course, but it’s still hard core optics.

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    WaterGirl says:

    @JPL: Yeah, I thought that “inappropriate circumstances” didn’t seem to be a phrase she just thought of on the spot — that seemed to be a phrase that she has needed to use before.

    I may be wrong, but he just seems baffled by the whole thing, like he just doesn’t quite get it.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    WaterGirl says:

    @Ruckus: Obama made his announcement outdoors in the middle of winter. Intended as a show of strength, I think.

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    rk says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Do any of you think the importance of the presidency should override the president’s right to medical privacy?

    Yes! If he wanted privacy the bloated pig shouldn’t have run for president and bribed doctors to tell obvious lies. Does the corrupt SOB really think we look at at him stuffing his face with McDonalds everyday, being unable to walk more than a 1000 feet, panting and sniffling like a dog when he speaks and think he’s the picture of good health? It’s not about his privacy. It’s about obviously bribing/threatening two doctors and waving a fake BS document in our faces. I never cared at any time about any President’s health. But I expect when the president goes to see a doctor, it will an honest evaluation and not some obvious fakery.

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  94. 94
    WaterGirl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I stood in the blazing heat in the summer for Barack Obama’s announcement of Joe Biden as his VP. People around me in the crowd were literally dropping like flies and being carried out, and I was so hot and sweating so much that my eyes were blurry, not sure if from the heat or all the sweat.

    And we drove 2 hours to get there.

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  95. 95
    Ruckus says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Didn’t remember that specifically. Did have a vague memory of him giving some speech in the snow, maybe that was it. And of course the famous rain pic.

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  96. 96
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Suzanne: Thank you. The current trend of attributing social awkwardness “to being on the spectrum” is as ridiculous as complaining that uncivil/assholish behavior is because someone is “on the spectrum” or “mentally ill.”

    People are assholes and/or socially awkward without a neuro or psych condition. They may coincide, but (at least) just as often don’t. Please stop conflating them.

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    JPL says:

    @Suzanne: Thanks. He does seem oblivious, although he was raised in mixed community and had several black friends.

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  98. 98
    RSA says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I assume that Trump’s people wrote the note and put it in front of the doc to sign.

    As @Marvel observes, this is the give-away:

    The President is very grateful for the outstanding care he received today, and he especially wants to thank all the doctors, nurses, enlisted and civilian staff who participated.

    There’s no way a doctor puts this in a note without direct instruction.

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    WaterGirl says:

    @Ruckus: And don’t forget the rainbow pic! (no link)

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    pat says:

    @Ruckus:

    I was late to the thread. I see I was not the first or only one to point out the mistake.

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    Ruckus says:

    @zhena gogolia:
    Sorry about that, didn’t check out who/what (randy kahn) that you were responding to.
    Normally I try to do that for the obvious reason that we see here…..
    It was believable though, that drumpf would claim such bullshit.

    ReplyReply
  102. 102
    Ruckus says:

    @raven:
    I’ve observed that I’d rather starve than eat at a McDs ever again.
    It’s safer.
    And less of a health risk.

    ReplyReply
  103. 103
    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I saw a poll in WaPo today – a substantial majority of African Americans in VA do not want him to step down.

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    randy khan says:

    @p.a.:

    That was Obama, not Trump.

    ReplyReply
  105. 105
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @MazeDancer:

    Missed the morn thread wherein twas discussed whether the rumors, if true, re: Klobuchar were salient. If ya, it matters to me — lots. Definitely in camp no-kiss-up-kick-down.

    That said, my reservations about Klobuchar (especially her self-invoked “grit”) started in the Kavanaugh hearings. Unlike many, I thought Klobuchar pointedly did *not* acquit herself favorably in that venue.

    Everyone remembers Kavanaugh treating Klobuchar rudely and, I would say abusively. During the Rapey McShoutyface Senate hearings, and during Sen. Klobuchar’s questioning in same, there arose a moment when she asked Bart O’Kavanaugh about his drinking. Everyone prolly remembers Kavanaugh’s belligerent accusatory reply, but here’s what stuck with me during that exchange. Klobuchar gave Kavanaugh an out when he was drowning.

    Just after Klobuchar asked Kavanaugh about whether he had any blackout experiences, and he replied, “I don’t know. Have YOU?!” and Klobuchar asked him, rather uncomfortably: “Could you answer, judge?”

    An uncomfortable silence followed. Which fucking well should have been allowed to continue — until Kavanaugh answered the question. Instead, imo, Klobuchar blinked. She broke the silence, helpfully (for Kavanaugh) interposing: “So that’s [i.e. blackout episodes] not happened? Is that your answer?”

    No, no, no. That pointedly *wasn’t* his answer. That’s the answer you helpfully provided him.

    When you got the living epitome of entitled dickish assholery drowning in fail and indicting himself during a hearing for a lifetime appointment, my thought is you DO fucking NOT hand him a rhetorical life-preserver. Rather you heave him the anchor of “Please proceed.”

    I get that Klobuchar was uncomfortable in that moment. But:

    Fuck. That. Guy.

    So. I will vote for any Dem who gets nominated, including Klobuchar if FSM wills it, but that window into Sen. Klobuchar’s soul spoke rather troubling things to me about the supposed “grit” that she invoked today at her campaign launch, and worse, it spoke troubling things about her ability to effectively counter the gooper menace.

    So far, I like Harris and Warren. Very low on my list (so far, subject to correx) are Booker and Klobuchar, mostly b/c of the intangible quality of temperament. And yes, grit. The latter two seem much too accommodating to people who do not deserve such consideration for the perilous age in which we live in.

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  106. 106
    raven says:

    @Ruckus: There is one within spitting distance from out house. The only time i’ve been there in 20 years is when we first move here and a neighbor came over and said “Raven is sitting in front of the door of Mc Donalds begging for food!

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  107. 107
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
    If that’s true and reflective of the VA AA electorate, then that’s a potentially good sign for the November elections.

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  108. 108
    Sebastian says:

    @delk:

    Stormy Daniels

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  109. 109
    p.a. says:

    @randy khan: OK. Has O quit smoking?

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  110. 110
    MazeDancer says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    Klobuchar is highly electable – if she is not an evil boss – because she is likeable.

    And she will shut up the “hands across the ailse” press. They won’t have any reason to attack her. And if Harris is on the ticket, it’s a good one.

    But the evil boss thing is a problem, if real.

    Squeaky clean Castro may outlast ‘em all.

    Also, Jonathan Capeheart, who like her speech, did point out she missed an opportunity not to mention Philando Castile. I had forgotten he was from MiN.

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  111. 111
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @Suzanne:

    Those are very good points.

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  112. 112
    Ruckus says:

    @pat:
    No worries.
    It was my fault, I didn’t do my normal comment check of what someone is saying in reply to someone else. But at least some of us had fun at the shitwhistle’s possible lie. (I’m coming around to shitwhistle)
    I’ll ask. We’ve all heard the comments that politicians lie all the time. We know that sometimes they may have to, national security and such. But of course drumpf lies about everything. It’s to the point that it’s believable that he’d lie this much, because he lies constantly. It’s who he is. I’d bet that in his tiny mind if he ever has to make a decision to tell the truth or lie, he always chooses lie. It’s his natural instinct to just lie. Not sure if he doesn’t remember the truth or doesn’t recognize it or just thinks everyone will believe him no matter what, because he’s so great. It is part of why I think he’s got dementia, and specifically Alzheimers.

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  113. 113
    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us? says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: It was the Washington Post-Schar School poll. Think it’s probably a quality poll. The split for AAs was 58-37 in favor of him staying on.

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  114. 114
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @raven:

    Milan Kundera ref for the win!

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  115. 115
    trollhattan says:

    Daddy Fred lived to 93. Take from that what you will. I have no idea whether he gained walrus-like size, pics don’t indicate so.

    ReplyReply
  116. 116
    trollhattan says:

    @RSA:
    That’s just a stable genius bringing the A-game.

    ReplyReply
  117. 117
    raven says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork: tryin to keep it real. . . compared to what?

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  118. 118
    Suzanne says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: It is as frustrating to me as people referring to all violent criminals as “mentally ill” or “psycho” or “crazy”.

    @JPL: He may just be a clueless, entitled douchebag in an awkward situation.

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  119. 119
    zhena gogolia says:

    Okay, to clarify further — I did realize from randy khan’s comment that we were talking about Obama. I put the exclamation point after 175 pounds because Obama is a marvel — he’s a very tall guy so to weigh 175 pounds is remarkable. And I do believe that he weighed 175 pounds when the exam was done, unlike DJT’s 239 pounds last year. This year they didn’t even give a weight for him.

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  120. 120

    @poleaxedbyboatwork: This is a good point. If she blinked with a punk like Kav, how’s she gonna stand up to, say, Putin?

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  121. 121
    opiejeanne says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Nice Rocky and Bullwinkle reference.

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  122. 122
    zhena gogolia says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    I agree. I’m for Harris right now (but then I was for Edwards once upon a time, too).

    ETA: All I mean by that is that I have a full-time job and have not checked out everyone’s record in great detail, so my response to Harris is to her general demeanor and her smartness but I can’t claim to know everything about her.

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  123. 123
    Ruckus says:

    @raven:
    I know there is one about 3 miles from me, when I drive home that way I pass by. I have no memory of any other location. That may be because I don’t really want to know, I’d have no trouble avoiding eating there even if I were standing in front of one. I bet you are the same.

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  124. 124
    debit says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I was out running errands and then shoveling. It’s actually pretty nice out.

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  125. 125
    opiejeanne says:

    @FelonyGovt: But does he have hemorrhoids? That’s the burning question.

    People who know who George Brett is will understand this.

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  126. 126
    leeleeFL says:

    @B.B.A.: JFK had Lyndon Johnson as VP. Not perfect, but not Pence. Still wrong, but thus open-ended “duration of his Presidency” line mught be a hedging of his bets.

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  127. 127
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SamR:

    At the time, Obama had less than a year remaining in his second term.

    ReplyReply
  128. 128
    raven says:

    @Ruckus: I think I’ve had a cup of Joe at the one in Appomattox over the years. The only coffee joint in the area is 18 miles away in the shadow of Falwell U.

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  129. 129
    opiejeanne says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I went out to get the mail from yesterday, which is a bit of a hike. It was 20F, the snow was between 6 and 9 inches deep, but thankfully no wind. I will recover soon.
    Going out in 4F temps with snow falling does not appeal to me, but the optics of it for her is pretty great.

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  130. 130
    Millard Filmore says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    asked Kavanaugh about whether he had any blackout experiences, and he replied, “I don’t know. Have YOU?!”

    “The questions come from THIS side of the table, sir.”

    Never give an inch.

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  131. 131

    @Ruckus: Their breakfast sandwich is not too bad and coffee is okay too. I never have anything else there.

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  132. 132
    Ruckus says:

    @zhena gogolia:
    I like Harris. She does have that sort of side eye knowing look sometimes but it’s always been deserved by the one she’s giving it to, as far as I can tell. And that side eye knowing look tells that someone exactly that. She has their number.
    She’s smart and she hires well. Her emails are well written and informative. I enjoy getting them on an almost daily basis. They aren’t talking down to anyone, they talk to you, they almost seem personal, definitely personable. So far she seems like the most adult in the room. I like some of EW’s ideas but my second choice is someone not running, Stacy Abrams.

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  133. 133
    raven says:

    @leeleeFL: Fuck LBJ

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  134. 134
    Bill Arnold says:

    Sorta-gaudy meme work:
    ‘Twitter is his sword’: EPIC Warhammer 40k Trump steals the show at Italian carnival (VIDEO)

    Complete with a huge ‘tweet-dashing’ sword and ‘golden’ armor, a colossal float depicted US President Donald Trump as the grandiose Emperor from the Warhammer 40,000 series.
    In all his might and glory, His Majesty the Emperor of Mankind descended on the small town of Viareggio in central Italy on Saturday. As part of an annual carnival procession, US President Donald Trump ‘appeared’ cosplaying the iconic character from the Warhammer 40,000 universe.
    The popular franchise of tabletops, which also spurred several video games, typically depicts the Emperor as a walking epitome of epicness and unparalleled power. The colossal float of Trump conveyed the same message. Clad in shiny golden armor, he sported a grim, yet pompous and regal look in his eyes.

    Oh nos! (I wonder if DJT has seen this RT piiece. FWIW I could tell tales of his doubts and weaknesses. They might even be true! :-)

    God Emperor!Twitter is his Sword. pic.twitter.com/ypLX9U9GAd— Michael Sheridan (@GovMikeSheridan) February 10, 2019

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  135. 135
    Suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: Agree on Harris and Abrams. My #3 is probably Beto.

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  136. 136
    prostratedragon says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I’m also troubled by the way he corrupts the people around him by getting them to tell transparent lies on his behalf. It’s incredibly destructive to our institutions of government.

    [sigh] That, and the fact that those clinging to some notion of their real duty have to be nearly or actually insubordinate to carry it out.

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  137. 137
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @MazeDancer:

    Klobuchar is highly electable – if she is not an evil boss – because she is likeable.

    And she will shut up the “hands across the ailse” press. They won’t have any reason to attack her. And if Harris is on the ticket, it’s a good one.

    No offense, but I disagree with you completely. For the purposes of this disagreement, I will stipulate (true or not, we’ll see) that Klobuchar ain’t a mean boss/bad manager.

    Likable to whom? Squishy centrists? Walter Mondale, also from Minnesota, was an eminently likable human being, but he only inspired passion (one hopes) in his wife. Mondale’s likability, like that of Klobuchar’s imo, is severely limited and it ain’t like to inspire the base of the Democratic Party.

    And no, Klobuchar will not shut up the “hands across the aisle” press folk. Far from it. What she will do, imo, is make it that much easier for Republicans to get a more accommodating hearing to every half-baked idea they choose to vomit up.

    One thing: Every time a Dem tries to “take x-issue OFF THE TABLE!,” quite the opposite happens. Generally, that perceived weakness is met by heightened boldness from our dishonorable opposition, and then the press plays along, fatuously wanting to know why, specially since Dems SAID they were gonna be more accommodating to the GOP, but once the GOP starts making unreasonable demands, the Dems “won’t-meet-them-halfway” and blanche. Or cave.

    ‘Member when it was “smart politics” to talk about how every abortion is icky and if Dems would just “meet Republicans half-way,” then the issue would be deemed decided and we wouldn’t have to argue over it anymores? (Yeah, fun times!)

    My impression of your regard for Klobuchar is that your esteem is founded in assumptions I don’t believe to be true. Klobuchar’s “likability” is limited to the press corpse and the can’t-we-just-all-get-along caucus. Klobuchar’s “likeability” ain’t a magic bullet. By any means.

    Very likely you disagree, and that’s OK.

    ETA: Ain’t no way on this earth Harris is gonna be anyone’s veep. She’ll either win the nom or not, but she ain’t gonna be Klobuchar’s No. 2.

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  138. 138
    Ruckus says:

    @raven:
    I’d have to stop drinking coffee.
    Oh wait, I never started. Tried, didn’t like AT ALL. Which seemed appropriate, it didn’t seem to like me either.
    The smell of fresh coffee, now that’s a different matter. Or was when the smeller worked. Growing up I lived next to a retired couple in their 80s, he’d worked for Standard Oil and traveled the world, spoke 5 languages, Mr/Mrs Harr. Every morning Mrs Harr would get up and make a fresh pot of coffee and that aroma would waft up to my room. What a glorious smell to wake up to. Why does it taste like that?

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  139. 139
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @WaterGirl:

    And commenters over there are correctly pointing out that what Northam said was absolutely correct and Paul Campos is the one who stepped in it.

    Don’t get between a moderate democrat and a chance to engage in performative displays of smug sanctimony!!!

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  140. 140
    RAVEN says:

    @Ruckus: I didn’t drink it until I quit booze. I gave up artificial sweeteners about a month ago. I’m waiting for all the purported improvement in taste and all that stuff that’s supposed to happen when you get off of it.

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  141. 141
    Ruckus says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    It was breakfast sandwiches that I commented on originally. I figured the first was a fluke, I’d eaten them before. When you are on the road, working, and have to be at work at 7am you have to make do with what you can find so I gave them a second chance. This ain’t baseball, I don’t give 3 strikes where food is concerned.

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  142. 142
    WereBear says:

    @FelonyGovt: Watch this video with a hat, because it will make your hair stand on end. It’s an interview with a rep from a group of mental health professionals trying to get the word out about the dangers.

    Episode 2: The Narcissistic-Paranoid-Sadistic-Psychopath President
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avhrJlqIEzs

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  143. 143
    Raven says:

    @Ruckus: That’s what you get for eatin all that PORK! (Richard Pryor)

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  144. 144
    sdhays says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork: I totally agree. There is no attack that a Democrat can take off the table from Republicans based on reputation alone. John Kerry is an actual war hero and they managed to make that questionable. If she’s “likable”, she’ll also be “too nice” to be President. The primary should sort how how our candidates are able communicate their qualities and keep their supporters excited about them. But we should be careful about stipulating anything.

    I doubt Klobuchar’s ability, but I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised. There are smart people here who are more excited about her announcement than I expected anyone to be, so there’s clearly something there that I haven’t yet really seen.

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  145. 145
    raven says:

    @sdhays: I don’t know about that “war hero” bullshit. He was there and he did his job.

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  146. 146
    Ruckus says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    ETA: Ain’t no way on this earth Harris is gonna be anyone’s veep. She’ll either win the nom or not, but she ain’t gonna be Klobuchar’s No. 2.

    I could see Harris as VP. But it would have to be someone with the same presentation of who they are as she gives. She would have taken the VP from President Obama. She might have from Hillary. AK, yeah I don’t see that either. Warren? I’d think that would be a hard call but I’d say no there as well, really it would take a close primary and she might. I can see she wants to win and be president and she seems to be going about it in a good way. She may see VP as a good step, in ten years she’ll be 5 yrs younger (64) than EW is now (69).

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  147. 147
    Bill Arnold says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’m for Harris right now (but then I was for Edwards once upon a time, too).

    Senator K. Harris impressed me with her questioning (especially her eyes) during the Kavanaugh hearings:
    Exchange between Sen. Harris and Judge Kavanaugh on Mueller Investigation (C-SPAN)

    Senator Kamala Harris asks if Judge Kavanaugh has discussed Mueller Investigation with anyone at Kasowitz Benson Torres law firm.

    Harris to Kavanaugh: Are you willing to ask the White House to initiate an FBI investigation?
    She has some talent and skill. Don’t know about enough about her policy positions though.

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  148. 148
    jc says:

    Trump won’t deal honestly with anyone who’s not on his side, who doesn’t declare fealty to him. He won’t even go to a doctor who he can’t manipulate. But then he’s quick to accuse everyone else of being partisan. It’s an ugly, ignorant pattern that his base thinks is clever.

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  149. 149
    WereBear says:

    @Ruckus: I guess it’s like liver. Smells so good cooking with onions. But then—

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  150. 150
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Ruckus: Climate wuss :))
    That’s kilt/shorts wearing weather:)

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  151. 151
    Ruckus says:

    @WereBear:
    Liver and onions. That never smelled good, tastes a lot worse. Of course mom used to make it and everyone else liked it.
    Used to get served liver and onions in the navy on occasion but they always served something else as well that at least didn’t cause automatic violent rejection. Or mutiny.

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  152. 152
    Ruckus says:

    @The Pale Scot:
    Not as cold, 50, but yesterday I was running errands in shorts and got a lot of looks, like that of a crazy person.

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  153. 153
    Ruckus says:

    @jc:
    drumpf doesn’t deal honestly with anyone he sees as not having power over him. And the only people who he sees that have power over him are people he owes large sums to, like vlad. People like Kim, he sees as a role model, someone to look up to.

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  154. 154
    MazeDancer says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    Besides liking your very well reasoned and written post, my Klobuchar “likeability” survey is based on Twitter, Real Life Folks, and a million years in advertising.

    All of which adds up to: Why, yes, I could be wrong.

    Twitter: Born-again women in Montana and Black Women in many states like her. RL: I know a gazillion women, from blindingly successful to washed out but clawing back. They all like her.

    She speaks in plain language. She feels scrappy but safe. She feels like a fighter. But nice. She’s not rich, groovy, or entitled. This appeals to a wide range of Americans.

    My interest in Klobuchar is stone cold sell out. I will sell out to whomever I think can win and get us through the healng years.

    If Klobuchar is damaged inside so she has to be an evil boss, she’s out. If she is demanding and being assassinated for acting like any man would, then screw the assassinators.

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  155. 155
    Suzanne says:

    I will sell out to whomever I think can win and get us through the healng years.

    TRUFACTS.
    I have preferences, to be sure. But none of them are as important as WINNING.

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  156. 156
    James Simonds says:

    @raven: GOP irrelevancies so well done, people still re-arguing 15-year-old Democratic primary discussions.

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  157. 157
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @MazeDancer:

    If Klobuchar is damaged inside so she has to be an evil boss, she’s out. If she is demanding and being assassinated for acting like any man would, then screw the assassinators.

    On these points (and beating back the Orange Menace at all costs), we are resolutely and happily of one accord.

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  158. 158
    Mnemosyne says:

    @trollhattan:

    Daddy Fred also had Alzheimer’s for the last years of his life. And there can be a genetic component to Alzheimer’s. 🤔

    ReplyReply
  159. 159
    remima says:

    @raven: Ha!

    ReplyReply

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