Saturday Morning Open Thread: On Valid Atonement

The Reverend Dr. Barber is a wise man, and an expert on this topic, so I figured it was worth front-paging his latest from the Washington Post, “How Ralph Northam and others can repent of America’s original sin”:

If Northam, or any politician who has worn blackface, used the n-word or voted for the agenda of white supremacy, wants to repent, the first question they must ask is “How are the people who have been harmed by my actions asking to change the policies and practices of our society?” In political life, this means committing to expand voting rights, stand with immigrant neighbors, and provide health care and living wages for all people. In Virginia, it means stopping the environmental racism of the pipeline and natural gas compressor station Dominion Energy intends to build in Union Hill, a neighborhood founded by emancipated slaves and other free African Americans.

Scapegoating politicians who are caught in the act of interpersonal racism will not address the fundamental issue of systemic racism. We have to talk about policy. But we also have to talk about trust and power. If white people in political leadership are truly repentant, they will listen to black and other marginalized people in our society. They will confess that they have sinned and demonstrate their willingness to listen and learn by following and supporting the leadership of others. To confess past mistakes while continuing to insist that you are still best suited to lead because of your experience is itself a subtle form of white supremacy.

At the same time, we cannot allow political enemies of Virginia’s governor to call for his resignation over a photo when they continue themselves to vote for the policies of white supremacy. If anyone wants to call for the governor’s resignation, they should also call for the resignation of anyone who has supported racist voter suppression or policies that have a disparate impact on communities of color…

In our present moral crisis, we must remember that real repentance is possible — and it looks like working together to build the multiethnic democracy we’ve never yet been.

Read the whole thing, please.

Initiatives like this seem like a worthy start — “Democratic group to spend $30M on voting rights effort”:

With the 2020 presidential election on the horizon, one of the largest outside Democratic groups announced on Thursday a $30 million effort to register voters, push ballot measures that expand voter rights and fight Republican-backed laws in court that restrict ballot access.

“At every stage of the game, Republican and conservative state legislatures around the country, when they are given the opportunity, make it more difficult for people to vote,” Guy Cecil, chairman of Priorities USA, told The Associated Press. “Essentially what you have are the descendants of Jim Crow who are trying to make it difficult for people to reach the ballot box.”…






222 replies
  1. 1
    Bess says:

    If Northam, or any politician who has worn blackface, used the n-word or voted for the agenda of white supremacy, wants to repent

    For lesser crimes we establish statutes of limitation. One reason for doing so is “Litigation of a long-dormant claim may result in more cruelty than justice”.

    Is justice served by punishing someone for an act that did not cause physical harm to someone and which happened decades earlier? I can’t see how that makes sense.

    IMHO what Northam’s admission of wearing blackface in a Michael Jackson imitation should do is to raise a red flag and cause us to more carefully consider what sort of person he is now and whether there is an ongoing problem with how he interacts with people outside his race/gender.

    I haven’t done the sort of investigation that would be needed to judge the man as he now is. I heard a single statement by a black member of his community who was saddened to hear about the original, apparently bogus, picture on his yearbook page. The person interviewed stated that Northam had been a supporter of the black community and black causes. That one report is not enough to restore his reputation but it suggests that we should look for other opinions from people who have worked with and around him for the last ten or so years. Perhaps Northam needs to repent or perhaps, other than one unwise dance contest outfit many years ago, Northam has nothing to repent.

    To confess past mistakes while continuing to insist that you are still best suited to lead because of your experience is itself a subtle form of white supremacy.

    I’m sure if we dug deeply enough into the lives of our very best leaders we could find some place where they fell short of the mark. The issue, in my mind, is not how they stumbled but whether there is a serious flaw that hampers their leadership.

  2. 2
    Raven says:

    Oh boy, here we go again.

  3. 3
    NotMax says:

    To coin a phrase, blechity blech blech.

  4. 4
    NotMax says:

    So what did I spy with my little eye at the market yesterday? A display of packages labeled “kale flavored sea salt.”

    The world has gone bonkers.

    @Raven

    Amen.

  5. 5
    Bess says:

    @Raven: Sorry, let’s get back to important political issues like house rot and car repair.

  6. 6
    raven says:

    @Bess: Write what you want because I’m damn sure going to write what I want.

  7. 7
    Bess says:

    @raven: Thank ye, sir.

    (Bows, tugs forelock, and backs away….)

  8. 8
    raven says:

    And Then There Were Two
    by John Coleat5:15 pm on February 8, 2019. It has 333 Comments.

  9. 9
    Aleta says:

    @NotMax: Why not kelp flavored sea salt. Or just lick a rock at low tide.

  10. 10
    raven says:

    @Aleta: Hey, knock that shit off!

  11. 11

    @NotMax:

    So what did I spy with my little eye at the market yesterday? A display of packages labeled “kale flavored sea salt.”

    So did you purchase some?

  12. 12

    @Bess: As jl reminds us on a nearly daily basis, this is a full service blog.

  13. 13
    NotMax says:

    Real=lizing some people have trouble accessing the site, the snippet kind of says it all. The First Sycophant:

    Ivanka Trump says she will only talk about policy when she thinks the same thing as her dad
    First daughter and White House Senior Advisor Ivanka Trump says she doesn’t feel she should share her opinions publicly when they diverge from her father’s.

    ABC News asked her why she did not speak out against President Donald Trump’s policy to separate thousands of migrant children from their parents, after CNN reported last year that she had opposed it behind closed doors.

    Trump said it is not her job “to share my viewpoint when they diverge.”

    She has defended her father’s policies multiple times in the past, and told ABC news that she only considers speaking out publicly when she is not listened to behind closed doors. Source

  14. 14
    mrmoshpotato says:

    Sea-flavored sea salt is the best! Disagree? Paces at dawn? I can walk and argue at the same time.

  15. 15
    Bess says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Sorry, I’m not the one attempting to limit the scope of discussion. I simply followed Anne’s lead and ran into someone who apparently does not want any more discussion of how we deal with this sort of problem.

  16. 16
    raven says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: You know what pisses me off? People coming here at 6 in the goddamn morning asking people who they have communicated for years for help. What the fuck is that on a “political” blog?

  17. 17
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  18. 18
    NotMax says:

    Crazy: doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

    U.S. President Donald Trump said Friday that he will hold his second summit with North Korea’s Kim Jong Un in Hanoi and predicted that the authoritarian country would someday become “a great Economic Powerhouse” under Kim’s leadership. Source

    No doubt stalwart ally South Korea is ecstatic. //

  19. 19

    @raven: I’m almost never here at 6am, I guess I’m safe. I’m usually in bed by 5:30.

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  21. 21
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Blech.

  22. 22
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    No. Non. Nein. Nyet. NotMax’s mom didn’t raise no fool.

  23. 23
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: Someone should ask Donnie Dollhands how NK is going to become this ”economic powerhouse.”

  24. 24
    Aleta says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Sea salt’s delicious. Kelp is cool.

  25. 25
    Aleta says:

    @raven:
    Now the beach is deserted except for some kelp
    And a piece of an old ship that lies on the shore
    You always responded when I needed your help
    You gave me a map and a key to your door
    https://vimeo.com/223956531

  26. 26
    NotMax says:

    @mrmoshpotato

    Couple more generations of dietary deprivation and they’ll corner the world market on jockeys?

  27. 27
    JoyceH says:

    @Bess:

    Is justice served by punishing someone for an act that did not cause physical harm to someone and which happened decades earlier? I can’t see how that makes sense.

    And what REALLY doesn’t make sense is the national punditizers insisting on absolute purity and zero tolerance. As a resident of Virginia, I would rather see us governed by a man who wore blackface 35 years ago and is very sorry and willing to make amends, than decapitate the entire statewide leadership, and then we’re governed, during the period of REDISTRICTING, by an enthusiastic proponent, NOW, of racial gerrymandering. Enforce a purity test now, and the minority population of Virginia will be paying for it for the next ten years.

  28. 28
    J R in WV says:

    @NotMax:

    At the little Asian Mart where I go for seasonings and Rice Wine vinegar, fish sauce, sesame oil, and all such, you have always been able to buy spice sized bottles of seaweed with toasted sesame seeds and salt. It’s good in Ramen, which I make for lunch sometimes. Quick and easy, chop a veg, boil some broth, dinner in 5 minutes tops.

    I don’t see a need for kale flavored salt, personally. The Sea weed salt is pretty interesting flavored for lots of quick Asian foods.

  29. 29
    JoyceH says:

    @Aleta:

    Sea salt’s delicious. Kelp is cool.

    The best companion for sea salt, though, is caramel.

  30. 30
    NotMax says:

    @J R in WV

    Among the myriad of Things I Didn’t Know Last Year is that sesame oil is one of the very few culinary oils which should be refrigerated after opening.

  31. 31
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Tourism driven by magnificent Trump-branded resorts!

  32. 32
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: Oooopps.

  33. 33
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: @NotMax: I foresee a massive migration from North Korea via jockeying.

  34. 34
    opiejeanne says:

    @NotMax: Oh rats! I did not know that.
    I don’t think there’s a warning on the label of the bottle I have on the pantry shelf. It hasn’t been there long, about two weeks, so I will amend that when I get up in about 4 hours.

  35. 35
    Aleta says:

    @J R in WV: seaweed with toasted sesame seeds and salt.

    @J R in WV: Did you ever try green tea poured over a bowl of rice, with that sprinkled on top? It’s eaten for breakfast or anytime, and trad. after a night of drinking. It’s called ochazuke. Really good.

  36. 36
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: And the most luxurious, classy, tremendous bigly beaches.

  37. 37
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: You too? It’s an epidemic!

  38. 38

    The rain has started here, and when we get rain here in the basin, we get views like this.

  39. 39
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    Greetings & cold morning from the 2019 NW Snowmagedon!

  40. 40

    @opiejeanne: You should also keep sesame seeds in the freezer.

  41. 41
    opiejeanne says:

    @raven: I have scars.

  42. 42
    opiejeanne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I didn’t know that, either. I do keep them in a dark place but I suppose that’s not enough. I rarely use them.

  43. 43
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @opiejeanne: Good way-too-early-to-be-awake morning! How much snow at your place?

  44. 44
    NotMax says:

    @opiejeanne

    I didn’t know that either. Apparently it keeps its oomph better if kept under chill.

  45. 45
    trnc says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Someone should ask Donnie Dollhands how NK is going to become this ”economic powerhouse.”

    Would his answer matter?

  46. 46
  47. 47
    opiejeanne says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: Good morning. Got your letter, thank you. How much snow did you get? Western WA has been bonkers the past two days with people buying up every white onion and all of the potatoes at our store, and all but one head of garlic. The gallon jugs of milk and water were sold out and the butter was almost all gone. My niece reported that in Tacoma it was cabbages and eggs that were bought out.
    Cabbages.
    I’m not sure why everyone was buying large amounts of bottled water. A woman in line with the last 4 galloons of water in the store said her pipes have been frozen since Sunday because her water service crosses a creek attached to a bridge and it’s not insulated. She joined the Y in order to take a shower.

  48. 48
    Aleta says:

    @J R in WV: I like hot pepper sesame oil that’s made by Eden. Seriously good.

  49. 49
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @opiejeanne: I only use the stuff if a recipe calls for it, I’m not even sure when that last was (olive oyl is the default in this semi Mediterranean household), I do know that there has been a bottle in the cabinet for years.

  50. 50

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Someone should ask Donnie Dollhands how NK is going to become this ”economic powerhouse.”

    Income Tax Cuts, it’s always Income Tax Cuts.

    ETA: Getting rid of the “Death Tax” too.

  51. 51
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @trnc: How do you feel about salads?

  52. 52
    Aleta says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That’s magical.

    We had rain and wild winds all night. The kind that makes something loud roll around on the street all night long.

  53. 53
    opiejeanne says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: @BeautifulPlumage: I haven’t checked since about 8pm last night, but I think we added about 4 inches to the inch or two that was left from Sunday’s snow. We got about 10 inches then, but a lot had melted.

    How much did you get? You’d think the world was coming to an end the way people were behaving the past two days. mr opiejeanne needed his glasses adjusted and we couldn’t find a parking spot at Costco on Thursday afternoon. We went right after they opened on Friday and managed to find a parking spot. Some of the meat was completely sold out, just empty places in the case.

  54. 54
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Gotta look out for all the Mom and Pop small businesses that’re worth more than $10 million.

  55. 55
    Raven says:

    @Bess: Unlike you, I did not reply to you or make some snarky ass personal attack so whining about my trying to “limit” the conversation is bullshit. We’re 50 comments in and there has been ONE reply to the “topic” so maybe that’s just the way it is.
    ETA, btw what you wrote is really interesting. So there!

  56. 56
    zhena gogolia says:

    Our power went out at 1:00 AM (no bad weather), the generator went on, then the generator went off and the power was on. Went back to sleep. At 6:00 AM the power went out, the generator went on. I called it in. A half hour later I called again and they said power was restored — but the generator was still on. My husband turned off the generator, the power is still off. They’re claiming they’ve restored power. Supposedly they’re sending a crew, but if it isn’t a downed line (and I don’t see any), they’re going to wash their hands of it. OF COURSE IT’S SATURDAY MORNING AND I WON’T BE ABLE TO GET AN ELECTRICIAN. What do I do?

  57. 57
    opiejeanne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That looks like my yard, without the fancy filter.

  58. 58
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @opiejeanne:

    her water service crosses a creek attached to a bridge and it’s not insulated.

    ?????????????? This can’t be the first time this has happened. I wonder why it hasn’t occurred to anyone to file suit? Maybe even go class action. Just filing it should be enough to resolve the situation.

  59. 59
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @JoyceH:

    As a resident of Virginia, I would rather see us governed by a man who wore blackface 35 years ago and is very sorry and willing to make amends, than decapitate the entire statewide leadership, and then we’re governed, during the period of REDISTRICTING, by an enthusiastic proponent, NOW, of racial gerrymandering. Enforce a purity test now, and the minority population of Virginia will be paying for it for the next ten years.

    And exactly who’s insisting on that either/or? If Fairfax is forced out first, as seems likely right now, Northam can choose his own successor by appointing him/her as Lt Gov, then resigning, at which point his Lt Gov appointee would become Governor.

    The way forward for Northam is clear. Northam should meet with the Democratic caucus in the legislature, and tell them that it’s up to them to come up with a plan, and he will abide by it, so long as the Black caucus within the Democratic caucus is satisfied with it. If that plan involves his appointing a successor of their choice, followed by his own resignation, he will abide by it. If it involves his staying in office, but agreeing to any other conditions, he will abide by that too.

    But he cannot govern without the support of his party, so he must agree to put his fate in their hands. Sixty percent of Virginians think he should resign; only 24% feel he shouldn’t, so he’s got to handle this in a way that turns that around as well. He can’t ride this out on his own, not without harming both his party and the Commonwealth itself.

  60. 60
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @opiejeanne: looks like 6-7 inches. Huge run on Costco & Winco in my area Thur eve, but I went to Cash & Carry for some basics instead; no lines, but few onions. This store was also out of all but one bag of red onions just before Christmas, which was the 1st time I’d seen that.

    Buying up onions….cabbage? That is bonkers.

  61. 61
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    olive oyl is the default

    Beats the hell out of her brother Castor.

    :)

  62. 62
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: North Koreans have income? The things I learn here.

  63. 63
  64. 64
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Olive oil and vegetable oil are our go-to oils, but I bought the toasted sesame oil for a stir fry, which turned out pretty well.

    I’ve got a big bottle of grapeseed oil for when I need something with a high-smoking point.

  65. 65
    JPL says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: Hot chocolate weather.

  66. 66
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Aleta:

    Now the beach is deserted except for some kelp
    And a piece of an old ship that lies on the shore
    You always responded when I needed your help
    You gave me a map and a key to your door

    Desire seems to have disappeared into the large shadow of Blood on the Tracks, but it’s an absolutely wonderful album. From “Isis”:

    How she told me that one day we would meet up again
    And things would be different the next time we wed
    If I only could hang on and just be her friend
    I still can’t remember all the best things she said

  67. 67

    @Aleta: Thanks.

    @opiejeanne: The fancy filter makes all the difference.

  68. 68
    NotMax says:

    @BeautifulPlumage

    Oddly enough, took a detour down the dental products aisle at Target and one entire side of the aisle, where normally toothpaste would be, was entirely emptied.

    Go figure.

  69. 69

    @OzarkHillbilly: It doesn’t snow that often in Western Washington, it does rain, alot.

  70. 70
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think the homeowner might have done it that way just to get water to the house. People do interesting things sometimes, especially out in the county. That would never fly with an inspector but God knows when her house was built. Where our cabin is, the ones across the road have bridges for driveways but their water service is not exposed like that.
    What surprised me was that no one had insulated that pipe in all the time her house has been there, considering how cold it gets nearly every winter. Supposed to 10 F tonight. .

  71. 71
    Baud says:

    Democrats slam Collins for Kavanaugh vote in wake of Supreme Court ruling on Louisiana abortion law

    Good

  72. 72
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @Raven: A chain of grocery stores that’s kinda a mix of QFC + Costco. Items in bulk but no membership. I’ve only been in once; bulk buying is not really my thing.

  73. 73
    Raven says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: wow, I hit their site and they are big!

  74. 74
    opiejeanne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: We do get some very cold weather almost every winter, though. I’m wondering if this is a temporary problem for this woman, like her house is undergoing extensive remodeling or if she does this every year. We had a week of below 20 F in November.

  75. 75
    Chyron HR says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Sixty percent of Virginians think he should resign

    Yes, but forty-plus percent of that is Republicans who are stroking themselves off at the thought of overturning the 2017 election results and turning Virginia into Kansas (plus Georgia’s voter suppression), so their opinion doesn’t really factor in here.

  76. 76

    @BeautifulPlumage: Sounds like Smart & Final down here.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    They’re claiming they’ve restored power. Supposedly they’re sending a crew, but if it isn’t a downed line (and I don’t see any), they’re going to wash their hands of it. OF COURSE IT’S SATURDAY MORNING AND I WON’T BE ABLE TO GET AN ELECTRICIAN.. What do I do?

    If your generator is supplying electricity to all of your house with no problem, the problem IS on their end. You may have a blown transformer, or maybe the fusible link burned up in a power surge (we have them on ours, i assume you do too) or maybe there is a squirrel shorting it out. I have had all 3 situations and our coop fixed all 3 of them.

    The one exception that might be your problem is the meter base. I’m not sure but I think you are responsible for it, maybe not, but it IS their meter in it, so even then they have to check that out too.

  78. 78
    opiejeanne says:

    @Raven: She doesn’t live that far from us but I didn’t know there was a Winco anywhere around here. I’ve never been to one; thought it was a southeast company for some reason.

  79. 79

    @opiejeanne: I only saw about 2 weeks of snow in the 3 years that I lived up there, but that was in the city.

    ETA: When we got the first real snow, it was fun seeing the gf’s reaction, she’d never seen snow before.

  80. 80
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @JPL: Ha! I made a grilled cheese sandwich last night (a childhood snow fave with tomato soup) and realized later I do have the fixings for hot chocolate. Then I decided on morning “mocha” (drip coffee with choc added, not the espresso style).

  81. 81
    Van Buren says:

    @JoyceH: I’m not surprised in the least by the punditry doing that, I am surprised that so many commenters on the lefty blogs I visit insist on it.

  82. 82
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Smart & Final

    Worst game show ever.

    “I’m sorry, but that answer is incorrect. Please step up to the Wall of Woe to face our celebrity firing squad.”

  83. 83
    Raven says:

    @opiejeanne: They had Fedco in LA when I was a kid.

  84. 84
    Frankensteinbeck says:

    @mrmoshpotato:
    Parades and worship of the dictator, with execution of anyone who doesn’t. Random sadism and totalitarian whim. All conducted as if it were the obvious, indisputable moral right of the godlike leader. Trump does not just want this kind of power. He idolizes it as the coolest thing ever and how counties should work.

  85. 85
    opiejeanne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: We’re on a hill, only a couple of hundred feet above the Sammamish valley floor, and there have been times that people have come to visit from Seattle and told us that we had the only snow in the area. Two weeks of snow is about what we usually get, on and off for those two weeks. My girls lived in Seattle the year this happened: Buses hanging over I-5

  86. 86
  87. 87
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @opiejeanne: Ah, a “personal bridge” the picture becomes clearer. I envisioned something feeding a subdivision.

  88. 88
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @opiejeanne: One in Kent and one in Sumner. They seem new-ish to me. I never looked up their history.

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That sounds like a bad translation of a foreign name that was supposed to mean “the only store you need” or something.

  89. 89
    opiejeanne says:

    @Raven: Yes, Fedco was great. There was a big one in Pasadena and another in San Bernardino. The people who started that later started Costco, which was an improvement.

  90. 90

    @opiejeanne: We used to go to the one in Pasadena and the one in Van Nuys.

  91. 91
    Elizabelle says:

    @JoyceH: I agree with you, Joyce. Great comment.

    Good morning, all.

  92. 92
    Ken says:

    I sometimes think the plethora of “Orange-Mango-Peach” juice blends is because they skip cleaning the machines between batches. Maybe the “kelp flavored salt” is a similar marketing solution to a manufacturing problem.

  93. 93
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    New Hampshire’s highest court has upheld the conviction of three women who were arrested for going topless on a beach, finding their constitutional rights were not violated. In a 3-2 ruling, the court decided that an indecent exposure law in the New Hampshire city of Laconia does not discriminate on the basis of gender or violate the women’s right to free speech.

    Citing rulings by several other courts, associate justice Anna Barbara Hantz Marconi wrote that courts “generally upheld laws that prohibit women but not men from exposing their breasts against equal protection challenges.”

    “We have found that the ordinance does not violate the defendants’ constitutional rights to equal protection or freedom of speech under the State and Federal Constitutions,” Marconi wrote. “As such, it does not unduly restrict the defendants’ fundamental rights. Accordingly, we agree with the trial court that the City had the authority to enact the ordinance.”

    In a dissenting opinion, associate justice James P. Bassett with senior associate Justice Gary E. Hicks concluded the ordinance was unconstitutional because it treats men and women differently.
    ……………………………….
    “We are extremely disappointed in the Court’s ruling that treating women differently than men does not amount to sex discrimination. The court has effectively condoned making it a crime to be female,” the women’s lawyer, Dan Hynes, said in a statement.

  94. 94
    opiejeanne says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: The whole name was Smart & Final Iris. There was one in Riverside for a while and you could get canned goods cheaper than in the grocery store. It was next door to the Wonder Bread bakery where you could buy day-old bread, but they carried all sorts of bread there like Roman Meal and Orowheat, not just the stuff that reminds me of white foam rubber.

  95. 95
    Ken says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: IIRC the “Death Tax” in North Korea works a little differently. When someone criticizes Dear Leader, their entire family is shot and the state seizes all their property.

  96. 96
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @opiejeanne: And thank you for covering for me! I very nearly drove home and would have missed a lovely dinner! That’s what I get for napping; unlike other people, naps don’t work well for me.

  97. 97
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I suppose they could apply the rule to both genders and make men wear a top when out in public. No more unsightly naked hairy paunches on late middle-aged men in poor shape would be nice.

  98. 98
    NotMax says:

    @opiejeanne

    Um, you do know that the secret ingredient in Roman Meal was sawdust, right?

  99. 99
    Ken says:

    @NotMax:

    one entire side of the aisle, where normally toothpaste would be, was entirely emptied.

    Usually that means they’re rearranging the store. They do that every few months because it makes shoppers walk around a little more to find what they want, increasing the chance of an impulse buy.

    Either that or they’re putting up a special display. Possibly candy-flavored toothpaste for Valentine’s Day?

  100. 100
    Baud says:

    @opiejeanne:

    I take that personally.

  101. 101
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: What about North Korea?

    I know our homegrown Traitorous Orange Fat Facist Soviet Shitpile (too saucy for the AM?) has a wet dream of becoming a dictator.

    Sidenote – autocorrect changed ‘facist’ to ‘racist’.

  102. 102
    Ken says:

    @NotMax:

    Um, you do know that the secret ingredient in Roman Meal was sawdust, right?

    The food industry prefers the term “microcrystalline cellulose”.

  103. 103
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @opiejeanne: Our low cost canned food came from Prairie Markets when I was a kid. Flat carts and cases of canned goods and very little else.

  104. 104
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Smart & Final beats “Kum and Go” which put the picture of a drive thru whore house in my gutter mind.

  105. 105
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @opiejeanne: Superbowl nipplegate anyone?

    (I agree with you on this)

  106. 106
    opiejeanne says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: It was not a problem, and I didn’t want you to leave if the gang showed up.

  107. 107
    NotMax says:

    @Ken

    A rose by any other name would taste as bland.

    ;)

  108. 108
    opiejeanne says:

    @NotMax: You talking about the commercial bread or the original Roman meal? Yes, there was a lot of wood fiber in most breads in the 70s and 80s; it was shrugged at by a lot of people. We only bought Orowheat then.

  109. 109
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    a drive thru whore house

    “You want fries with that?

    :)

  110. 110
    zhena gogolia says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Thank you. They seem to be not in any hurry to help us out. The crew “hasn’t been dispatched yet.”

  111. 111
    opiejeanne says:

    @Baud: Sorry, Baud. I always pictured you as svelte.
    That includes me, though. Only a pervert with an old midwestern farm woman fetish would want to see me topless.

  112. 112
    Immanentize says:

    I am highly recommending the book, Salt, A World History.

    It’s a great read. The empires that rose and fell and were fought over because of salt. And it made me hopeful that someday (maybe in my lifetime?) We will think of oil as we now think of salt.

  113. 113

    @opiejeanne: “Ever eat a pine tree? Some parts are edible.”

    Euell Gibbons for Grape Nuts.

  114. 114
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Yes, but forty-plus percent of that is Republicans

    Dems in Virginia want him gone by a 58-27 margin.

    Here’s your crosstabs. Poll commissioned by that notorious right-wing outfit, DailyKos.

  115. 115
    Ken says:

    @opiejeanne: By Rule 34, it exists…

  116. 116
    opiejeanne says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I remember Mr Gibbons. He died of some sort of stomach issue, like a bleeding ulcer, didn’t he?

  117. 117

    @opiejeanne: Baud is virtual, he can be svelte or not.

  118. 118
    trnc says:

    @mrmoshpotato: I’m generally pro-salad, but I do not find the words of Pres Ind 1 or other professional republicans to be very tasty ingredients.

  119. 119

    @opiejeanne: I always heard the story that a choked on a pine cone.

  120. 120
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    I contain multitudes.

  121. 121
    opiejeanne says:

    @Ken: I know about Rule 34.

    Otoh, I’ve been checked out by older men more than once and it made my skin crawl. I sat down in a coffee shop to put my ice cleats on my boots before venturing out into a parking lot and all of the older guys holding the chairs down turned and drooled at me. Until my husband walked up. He’s in a class they never belonged to while I look a bit battle-worn.

  122. 122
    opiejeanne says:

    @Baud: Do you now? Well, isn’t that special.

  123. 123
    Betty Cracker says:

    This lady on Twitter proposes essentially the same solution as Barber, but I prefer her style and delivery:

  124. 124
    Immanentize says:

    @low-tech cyclist:
    From Isis, I think what I refer to as “the questions” is the best part:

    She was there in the meadow where the creek used to rise
    Blinded by sleep and in need of a bed,
    I came in from the east with the sun in my eyes
    I cursed her one time then I rode on ahead

    She said, where ya been, I said, no place special
    She said, you look different I said, well, I guess
    She said, you been gone I said, that’s only natural
    She said, you gonna stay I said, if you want you me, yes!

  125. 125
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @zhena gogolia: During storms they need to triage the outages. The more people affected the quicker they respond. It makes sense but it still sucks when you are the only one with a problem.

  126. 126
  127. 127
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Q: Why did Euell Gibbons have purple children?

    A: Grape nuts.

  128. 128
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @NotMax:
    @opiejeanne:
    Uhhh, what? TIL that I was eating trees growing up? Was this microcrystalline cellulose used in breakfast cereal?

    I was a picky eater. If I didn’t like dinner I ate a slice of Wonder Bread with sugar & milk. And for a couple of years my school lunch was Tang Salad Dressing on Wonder Bread. And I ate lots of Cherrios/Shredded Wheat/Corn Flakes type cereals.

    Am I an ent?

  129. 129
    debbie says:

    @NotMax:

    Me too, but not until I opened a bottle that had gone rancid. Yuck!

  130. 130
    debbie says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I was very sad to hear about this yesterday, having had such a crush on him!

  131. 131
    Another Scott says:

    @low-tech cyclist: +1

    I was loudly calling for Northam to go, and I still think he should. Why? “Good people” can be racist – there’s no contradiction and it’s not a defense. It was long ago can be a defense, but his recent actions about this have been a disaster. He can’t change his story and lie to us (I’m sorry it was me; No it wasn’t me) without consequences.

    But, it’s really up to the elected Democratic Party of Virginia.

    If they say he can stay if he does this, that, and the other, and the VLBC supports it, then I can see going along.

    Fairfax is a disaster. I can’t see how he survives and he will do a lot of damage if he doesn’t resign soon (assuming the allegations continue to be almost certainly true).

    Herring needs to do more, and I think he will do what is necessary to rebuild confidence in his character. But Sharpton loudly calling for his resignation is a big barrier.

    But the DPVA and the VLBC need to get in front of this. They need to have a strong, coherent statement about how they’re not supporting a white guy or guys while kicking the black guy out without good, coherent, reasons. They have to recognize the ‘big’ (not rewarding the RWNJs, 2019 elections and the 2020 census and redistricting, protecting the powerless from the Teabaggers and Confederates, etc.) and the ‘small’ pictures (taking ideals seriously, consistent messages, punishing bad behavior, not rewarding lying and stonewalling, etc.).

    And the replacement for Fairfax needs to be someone very well vetted, not just someone who checks all the boxes to make the immediate problem go away. I don’t have an opinion on the names being floated, yet.

    Virginia’s history of racism is terrible and it extends to the present. Everyone here is touched by it – every day. The party has an opportunity and an obligation to figure out a path forward now and to show the rest of the country (and the world) that they take that responsibility seriously.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  132. 132
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @NotMax:

    Worst game show ever.

    “I’m sorry, but that answer is incorrect. Please step up to the Wall of Woe to face our celebrity firing squad.”

    Firesign Theatre, from Waiting for the Electrician:

    Announcer: “Now, Patient, you have ten seconds to tell us what you’ve got, and Beat The Reaper!

    P: “I’m shaky…I’m feverish…my hands are all…I’m turning yellow! My God, I’ve got jaundice!

    Announcer: “Jaundice it is! Give him the antidote, Judy!”

    On the next round, he fails to guess that he’s been injected with The Plague, so he doesn’t Beat The Reaper.

  133. 133
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    Collins is not going to be able to escape that vote by just letting time slip by. It will be an even worse act every month he is on the court.

  134. 134
    trnc says:

    I love the idea of a wealth tax, at least as a way to claw back ill gotten tax proceeds until we can get income and inheritance taxes back in shape (because income taxes structured as they should be would theoretically make the wealth tax mostly obsolete), but I don’t know how it would be calculated without a lot of other changes to tax law. It’s pretty rare to read that person X is worth $87 million. Net worth for the very wealthy is generally listed as an average something within a pretty large range.

  135. 135
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @trnc: Agreed. All the veggies would be rotten, salad dressing rancid and croutons undercooked yet stale.

  136. 136
    snoey says:

    @opiejeanne:
    That’s the law in New York. I was at a concert once in a sweatbox auditorium there and that was the only rule being enforced.

    “Would you mind not hitting on that bowl while I’m telling you to put your shirt back on?”

  137. 137
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    Fairfax is a disaster. I can’t see how he survives and he will do a lot of damage if he doesn’t resign soon (assuming the allegations continue to be almost certainly true).

    Really? “Almost certainly” is now the bar? I don’t think this is a good idea. Eventually, someone will only need to point to a rumor and the mobs will gather.

    I am in no way dismissive of sexual predation of any form, but we must be very careful in how we proceed. I’m just getting the feeling that we’ve begun regressing to the Salem Witch Trials or the Red Scare.

    And on that happy note, off to do errands. At least the sun is shining here.

  138. 138
    trnc says:

    @Another Scott: I find Barber to be a far more credible person than Sharpton, who has always been more of a flamethrower than anything else. I wanted Northam to resign, but if Barber and the VA Black Caucus can extract positive change out of him in the way of more aggressive policy on voting rights, etc, I can live with that.

  139. 139
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @BeautifulPlumage:

    Am I an ent?

    No but you are not right, definitely something wrong with you. Wonder Bread? It’s a wonder they can sell it as bread. ;-)

  140. 140
    trnc says:

    @mrmoshpotato: The undercooked, stale crouton – Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo…

  141. 141
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @snoey: Breasts. So Powerful They Must Be Covered At All Times.*

    *even if you have very small ones if you’re a female but not even big ones if you’re male, ’cause rules or something

  142. 142
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize: They’re going to take the case and Kavanaugh will vote to uphold the abortion law just in time for the 2020 election. It’s up to Maine Dems now to put up or shut up.

  143. 143
    Ken says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: Am I an ent?

    No, but you’ve eaten a lot of cellulose. I should clarify – cellulose additiives. Obviously we eat a lot of cellulose, it’s what plant cells are made of, and it’s harmless though useless. The objections to the additives are because it is inert filler with no food value.

  144. 144
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Another Scott: Well said.

  145. 145
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: Will they take the case? Kav himself wrote that more facts are needed to correctly resolve the issue…. The current case was just seeking the stay from the lower court lifting the stay issued by the District Court. If the record is really as bad as the four said it is, it should not be cert worthy — to the four. But consistency, rules, or standards do not seem to be the currency just now.

  146. 146
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I know, right? And when Mom started baking our bread I was unhappy with it*. With what I know now….

    *I realized long ago that my teenage self was sorely lacking in appreciation for what we had

  147. 147
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @trnc: Yes, and they’ll be mushy too – somehow!

  148. 148
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    A second thought — they do go through with the case, do not dismiss as improvidently granted (which is what Kavanaugh is really arguing) and decide in June of 2020. That would put both abortion rights AND the appointment of Gorsuch and Kavenaugh clearly in the front of the campaign. Add in illegal election of Trump. It is going to be one hell of a year.

  149. 149
    BeautifulPlumage says:

    @Ken: thanks for the reassurance…I know biology but just never read up on all the ways our commercial foods have been adulterated. I do mostly eat “low processed” food.

    But some days being an ent doesn’t sound bad.

  150. 150
    Immanentize says:

    This one is for Ozark:

    From the big freeze we get Ghost Apples:

    I guess it was just cold enough that the ice covering the apple hadn’t melted yet, but it was warm enough that the apple inside turned to complete mush (apples have a lower freezing point than water)

  151. 151
    trnc says:

    @debbie: I think we’re in a new era, and new eras are inherently messy. I was hoping that Fairfax didn’t do what he is accused of, but when multiple accusers come out publicly AND there is some contemporary evidence (including confiding in friends at the time) that this is not strictly ratfucking, I’ll side with the accusers for now. This scenario could lead to false accusations, but I feel like we have to get to the point where someone can bring a civil suit against the accuser and win before things level out. (edit – by level out, I mean get to the point where it’s clearer to most people that false accusations are unlikely. There’s a lot rolling around in my head about this, so take the idea and the wording with a pinch of sea salt).

    I’m all for investigating what can be investigated, but it’s difficult to assess a past accusation of a private act that happened years ago. I feel the same way about the Washington Post investigation from a year or so ago that I felt when people claimed the FBI already investigated Kavanaugh – you can only interview people who come forward at the time, and accusers may not go public for various reasons, one being that they aren’t paying attention to every bit of news about their assailant.

    I also hope that what we eventually get out of this is that the culture changes to the point victims start coming forward earlier. That would make claims easier to investigate AND make some would be rapists consider whether they’ll really get away with it.

  152. 152
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: Heh, my old man was one of 10 during the Depression, and very embarrassed by the home made bread sandwiches he brought to school. He kept them wrapped so nobody could see what he was eating.

  153. 153
    JPL says:

    @opiejeanne: That is when I started making my own bread. I stopped when we moved to Dallas in the eighties. You could watch the bread dough rise there.

  154. 154
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: Too F’n Cool!

  155. 155
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: My grandparents lived next door when I was growing up and Grandma baked bread for us. I don’t think we appreciated it but the other kids were jealous. I remember a couple of them wanting to trade their Wonder Bread sandwiches with me. I can’t make bread that good, Lord knows I’ve tried.

  156. 156
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize: The libs will vote to grant cert. Otherwise, the law goes into effect.

  157. 157
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    That would put both abortion rights AND the appointment of Gorsuch and Kavenaugh clearly in the front of the campaign.

    I hope that the Supreme Court will matter to Dem voters more than it did in 2016, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

  158. 158
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    What is the old socialists used to say “If one of us isn’t free, then none of us are really free because freedom become a privilege and privileges can be taken away” so dealing with racism is a real simple concept.

  159. 159
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: They could do what Kavenaugh suggested — GVR the case (granted, vacated and remanded) to the Appellate Court with instructions to return to the District Court for further hearing on the issue whether admitting privileges will be denied. And leave the stay intact. If I was working on that case (and I’m not) that would be my first motion to the Court based on the stay dissent. But people (read lawyers) sometimes prefer to litigate in the Supreme Court (the big time!, The show!) rather than do all they can do to help their clients.

  160. 160
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: But Hillary was going to win!!!

  161. 161

    They’re getting snow in the high desert, looks like Barstow is getting snow.

  162. 162
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    And leave the stay intact.

    Kavanaugh voted against the stay.

  163. 163

    @Immanentize: She did get more votes than Trump.

  164. 164
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @opiejeanne: My mother baked bread all the time when I was growing up. One of my favorite memories is of coming home from school on a cold snowy day with half frozen fingers and toes and opening the door and being greeted by the warm enveloping scent of homemade baked bread fresh from the oven. Ma would commit the mortal sin of slicing it while still hot so that the pats of cold butter would melt into it.

    Pure heaven.

    (yes I did have to walk to school in foot deep snows uphill both ways)(no, not barefoot, but breadbagged)(which always had a hole)

  165. 165
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Grandma always scolded us if we tried to slice it while warm, which is the way I liked her bread. It made great toast, too.

    Wait, I just had a flashback to when I did turn out some decent bread, a lifetime ago. We lived in Riverside and I captured some wild yeast in a mason jar and kept that thing going for a couple of years. That was in a very dry climate. I do believe that climate affects the kind of bread you can produce. When we lived in the SF Bay Area it was true that the sourdough was really different from what you could get in SoCal.

  166. 166
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @opiejeanne:

    I do believe that climate affects the kind of bread you can produce. When we lived in the SF Bay Area it was true that the sourdough was really different from what you could get in SoCal.

    Absolutely, it is a scientific fact that the yeasts vary by region.

  167. 167
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yes, but even using commercial yeasts there is a definite difference.

  168. 168
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    And exactly who’s insisting on that either/or? If Fairfax is forced out first, as seems likely right now, Northam can choose his own successor by appointing him/her as Lt Gov, then resigning, at which point his Lt Gov appointee would become Governor.

    Are you paying attention to the god damn news? What part of the conservatives built a scandal generating machine with the National Inquirer have you missed? Three Dems all in the line of succession and it’s purely coincidence. Bullshit. Bring another Dem out, they will dig up dirt on them.

  169. 169
    Another Scott says:

    @opiejeanne: I’m no expert, but it seems logical that humidity would affect bread. Cookies are sensitive to it.

    I’ve got a Panasonic bread maker and really like it. (I had a Breadman for years, but this is much better.) I weigh the ingredients, use Saf yeast, and add 4T of gluten to each batch when I make a 2.5 pound loaf of WW bread. (I keep the yeast and gluten in the freezer.) The bread machine lets the ingredients warm up for 30 minutes before it starts mixing, and only adds the yeast later. Perfect loaves every time, but I’ve only used it in NoVA. :-)

    Few things beat toasted fresh bread and butter. I feel great sympathy for the gluten intolerant. :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  170. 170
    germy says:

    “You know that Pepperidge Farm bread, that stuff is fancy. That stuff is wrapped twice. You open it, and then still ain’t open. That’s why I don’t buy it, I don’t need another step between me and toast.”
    – Mitch Hedberg

  171. 171
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Bess: This is not a subject that has gone without voluminous discussion here already. Still, if you feel you have something to add to the discussion, say it by all means. If others would prefer to speak of other things having seen the acrimony that developed in previous discussions, I don’t see why that should trouble you.

  172. 172
    Nicole says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: A) Boo on New Hampshire. B) That reminded me of, back in the late-1990s, when NYC’s annual Gay Pride Parade was coming up, the NYPD warned any women marching that if they took their tops off, they’d be arrested. It had to be pointed out to New York’s Finest that the laws had been amended in 1992 to allow women to go topless anywhere in the city (woot gender equality). Though, in 2005 a woman was arrested for it on Delancey Street. She was held for 12 hours and later awarded $29,000 due to the cops apparently being dumbasses who didn’t know the law.

  173. 173
    trnc says:

    @Immanentize: I have to admit that I was one of the people who thought that was a foregone conclusion. In hindsight, I have often wondered if enough people could have pushed our last legitimate president to swear in Garland after 6 months and let the senate sue and have to explain in federal court why they took no action on the nomination.

  174. 174
    Ian R says:

    @zhena gogolia: UI is terrible about outages, but even worse about communication. I was without power for several hours the other day, and their outage site still said that a crew had not yet been dispatched when they got around to fixing it.

  175. 175
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @opiejeanne: I do a lot of baking, it comes naturally to me.

  176. 176
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Another Scott:

    I feel great sympathy for the gluten intolerant. :-(

    I don’t, more bread for me. ;-)

  177. 177
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @NotMax: A shout out to our bark eating ancestors. Very paleo.

  178. 178
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Nicole:

    She was held for 12 hours and later awarded $29,000 due to the cops apparently being dumbasses who didn’t know the law.

    Cops who don’t know the laws they are supposed to enforce???? I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

  179. 179
    Kirk Spencer says:

    @opiejeanne: I use ghee. Higher smoke point and easier for me to get (make).

  180. 180
    mattH says:

    @BeautifulPlumage: “You” NWers need to learn how to put sand and salt on your mountain passes instead of scraping off 2″ of snow and letting black ice form. My God was that a white-knuckle drive I had yesterday.

  181. 181
    zhena gogolia says:

    Generator still running. Power company says we have power, it’s the generator’s fault. I’ll have to stay home from a funeral to wait for the generator tech people to come, probably in about 5 hours. And I’m sure they won’t be able to figure out what’s wrong.

  182. 182
    JeanneT says:

    Good morning! Here in Grand Rapids a good chunk of the population (71,000 households) is still without power on the 3rd day after the Weds night ice storm. Yesterday I moved my 92 year old and frail MIL from her apartment to my son’s, because he had heat AND he has a 1st floor bathroom. At 6PM I got home and started packing out to take myself, 3 dogs and a cat up to my sister’s house, worrying over the pipes that were surely going to freeze when the overnight temps dropped to a predicted 10 F. I had just zipped my suitcase shut when I heard an electronic ‘ping’ and looked up to see my clock radio blinking.

    I have rarely been so happy in my life as when I heard the furnace kick on. I am still giddy with relief. My MIL’s senior living complex is still without power, which sucks for her. She’s very dependent on her daily routine and the furnishings that she’s used to; she hates being disrupted. On the good side, she gets to enjoy the attention of a fluffy cat and a happy beagle, so it could be worse.

  183. 183
    Brachiator says:

    @opiejeanne:

    Yes, Fedco was great. There was a big one in Pasadena and another in San Bernardino. The people who started that later started Costco, which was an improvement.

    Coming late to the thread. My family had Fedco membership when we moved to California. I think that originally membership was for federal employees and some union people.

    They had great buyers for the merchandise they stocked, and their TV’s and electronics often closely tracked the top recommendations found in Consumer Reports magazine.

  184. 184
    zhena gogolia says:

    @JeanneT:

    Congratulations on getting power!

    Our ice storm is coming Tuesday, but we got our power outage in a clear blue sky and our generator won’t shut off even though supposedly we have power. Unfortunately I think we need a new/different generator.

  185. 185
    Brachiator says:

    Meant to add that I planned to sleep late since this is the first Saturday I haven’t worked in a while, but the sound of rain woke me up. Another storm wave is moving through Southern California. This is not as bad as elsewhere, but still a relative pain.

  186. 186
    Ramalama says:

    @NotMax:

    “kale flavored sea salt.”

    Distributed by Kumbaya, LLC – amirite?

    Actually a beloved theatre prof proferred me seaweed chips by telling me, “You look like you could use some salt. Do you want some salt?” Who could say no? So he presented me with a bag of said chips. They weren’t bad, and they did pep me up.

    Signed, a Pox on Both Houses

  187. 187
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @zhena gogolia: Wait a minute:

    My husband turned off the generator, the power is still off.

    WTF? Did they come to your house?

  188. 188
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Unfortunately I think we need a new/different generator.

    IF they are correct, you have at worst a faulty switch.

  189. 189
    gwangung says:

    I thought this thread by Asha Rangappa is an appropriate thought about the forgiveness process.

  190. 190
    zhena gogolia says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The power company came to the house (after my first comment above), but they said we have power to the house. They went in the basement but couldn’t figure it out, but they say it’s a faulty switch. Now I’m waiting for the generator people to come, which will be at least three hours from now. The neighbors had a power outage too but it went right back on.

  191. 191
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @zhena gogolia: OK.

    but they say it’s a faulty switch.

    Like I said you shouldn’t need a whole new generator. The switch is probably very easily taken out of the loop but I wouldn’t suggest any amateur attempts at it.

  192. 192
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I do have one simple suggestion: Flip the main breakers in your panel to off. Leave them off for 30-60 seconds and flip them back on. I would think the power company guys would think to do this, but just in case they brain farted, it’s worth a try.

  193. 193
    Brachiator says:

    @gwangung:

    I thought this thread by Asha Rangappa is an appropriate thought about the forgiveness process

    Yep. Very good, thought provoking stuff.

  194. 194
    opiejeanne says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Are you often baked? ;-)

  195. 195
    Soprano2 says:

    Occasional commenter, regular reader here. I hate to see people I like, whose comments I enjoy reading, people who agree with each other on most issues, tearing each other apart over this . The Republicans couldn’t have done a better job of putting us at each other’s throats. So, I’m going to share a few thoughts about this issue. Take them for the $0.02 they’re worth.

    First, I cannot imagine the pain this whole situation must be causing for African-Americans, being that I am a white woman. To find out that people who were your allies and friends did something that is so offensive and painful to you, no matter how long ago they did it or how young they were, has to be a punch to the gut. I can’t blame anyone in that situation for having the automatic reaction “They all must go, now!” (I can blame AA organizations for doing that in public, though. In this I believe Rev. Barber is wise.)

    That said, Democrats cannot become the “absolute purity” party, or eventually we’ll be holding all our events in the small room at the Radisson. What we’re saying to people, especially white men, is that if you did something offensive even one time, no matter how long ago it was or how young you were or why it happened and no matter what else you’ve done with the rest of your life, we’re going to throw you to the side and not give you even a chance for redemption. We talk a lot about giving people who have been in prison second chances and the ability to redeem themselves, yet we aren’t willing to grant that to people who are our allies? To me that is unacceptable and stupid. There has to be a path forward to redemption for people who want to become better and redeem themselves, and I feel that looking at all the other things Northam and Hering have done for Democrats in their lives, we have to give them that opportunity. Lots of people have done stupid but not criminal things in their lives when they were young; do we want people thinking we apply the figurative “death penalty” for all of them no matter what? I think that’s a bad idea. It also gives Republicans an easy way to take out our elected officials – just throw a couple of accusations or doctored photos out there, and watch us destroy each other over them.

    The situation with Fairfax is different, because we’re talking about possible criminal acts, not just poor judgement about something at a young age (and yes, I give a 19-year-old more leeway than a 25-year-old). We have a hard tightrope to walk – honoring our country’s ideal of “innnocent until proven guilty” while also believing that women don’t make these accusations falsely or lightly. We have to remember, he is denying it all – without investigating, how do we know who is telling the truth? We need to back a full investigation of these charges, and if the evidence shows they are true, then we need to demand that Fairfax resign. IMHO that’s what should have happened with Al Franken, too – I’m still pissed at how that all shook out. Again, we have to believe women, but we cannot “weaponize” that so much that it would be easy to make a couple of false allegations and watch us take each other out.

    As much as it might not seem that way, it can be a good thing when these things happen, because we have this whole horrible past around race and the treatment of women that we need to deal with, and this can be a way of working on that. We need to make it easier for women to report sexual assaults when they happen, so that if men are rapists they don’t make it all the way to being Lt. Governor of a state before we find that out. Women need to be able to get justice in a timely manner, not 19 years after the fact. We also need to allow people who are our allies to admit to bad things they did when they were young and give them the chance for redemption, not immediately scream to figuratively “burn” them.

    My husband & I own a pub. Two years ago, a married couple who are nice people and regular customers came to our Halloween party; he was dressed like a prison guard, and she dressed in an orange jumpsuit as a prisoner, including putting something on her face to darken it! Should I have made a big deal out of it and thrown them out? I couldn’t do that – they are good regular customers, as are a lot of their friends. Hubby & I were aghast and extremely uncomfortable about it, but we let them stay. A not insignificant amount of people thought it was funny, but I could tell some others were uncomfortable too (I live in SWMO, so there are lots of Trump supporters here. I laugh when people online treat me like I’m some “coastal elite” who doesn’t understand Trump voters – I’m surrounded by them!) These weren’t kids, and it wasn’t decades ago – it was 2 years ago! I only tell this story to illustrate that these things aren’t just in the distant past, but are still with us. This couple is in their 60’s – I have a hard time imagining that younger people would be comfortable doing this. I honestly don’t know what we do about things like this.

    OK, I said my piece – flame away!

  196. 196
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @zhena gogolia: Ozark is almost certainly right – the bypass switch is likely to be the culprit here, not the generator. It’s a separate component, and they are more prone to failure. This is why in commercial installations (like data centers) you have a regular schedule of testing from “street” power to generator and back.

    But also as OH said, this is something for a licensed and bonded electrician.

  197. 197
    opiejeanne says:

    @Brachiator: Yes, it was originally for Federal employees and their families, and expanded to include state employees. We had membership and one time we bought one of their meat packages: a quarter of a beef trimmed into steaks and roasts, some pork and some chicken, if I recall correctly.
    Then Fedco was gone, poof.

  198. 198
    zhena gogolia says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The generator guy on the phone told us to do that, but he didn’t have us wait 60 seconds. In response to your comment, we just did that, but it doesn’t seem to have worked.

    The reason I say we need a new generator is that this one has repeatedly malfunctioned in various ways over the years. At one point it got too much water in the lines or something so it kept going on even though we had power. But that was easier — we could just turn it off and we still had power. Now we’re at its mercy!

    Thank you for all your help.

  199. 199
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    We have it checked once a year, in the summer. It runs itself once a week, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the transfer switch, I guess.

  200. 200
    Elizabelle says:

    @Soprano2: Not flaming you. I am applauding you.

    Although: that couple is problematic. Were something like it ever to recur: I wonder if the thing to do is enlist one of your friends or another customer to mention that pretending to be a black prisoner is wrong, wrong, wrong. We gots plenty of white ones too. Keep the orange jumpsuit. Lose the blackface.

    You’re in SWMO, but how wonderful would it be if we could persuade Mrs. Costume to make her face and hair up as Ivanka Trump? However, Missouri. Problem with her friends and neighbors. Fer sure.

    Eyes on the prize, peeps.

  201. 201
    debbie says:

    If you don’t listen to NPR’s “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me,” Stacey Abrams was today’s guest. She was great! Not sure if it’s known around here, she’s also a romance novelist. I particularly like that the characters based on people in her real life at last get their just desserts.

    Here’s the link to her segment (less than 10 minutes long and worth the listen).

  202. 202
    WaterGirl says:

    @Soprano2: I appreciate your thoughtful approach. You should consider lurking less and posting more.

  203. 203
  204. 204
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Beautiful! Remind me to buy some before our next birthday.

  205. 205
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: It’s great so far!

  206. 206
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: She’s smart, charming, funny, and quick on her feet. Go Stacey!

  207. 207
    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Also seconded!

  208. 208
    J R in WV says:

    @Another Scott:

    But Sharpton loudly calling for his resignation is a big barrier.

    I like Sharpton, but he isn’t from Virginia. Neither am I. Thus our opinions matter less than the opinions of residents of East Virginia. I’m both white AND from West Virginia, so my opinion is less important than Sharpton’s a little.

  209. 209
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: I could go for a cheap hat trick:

    I love Barack Obama. :-)

  210. 210
    J R in WV says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Unfortunately I think we need a new/different generator.

    If your generator is powering your house, you don’t need a new one. You MAY need a new unit that detects a power outage from the grid and switches out your connection to the grid before starting the generator. This must occur to prevent your generator from putting power to the outage side of a breakdown in the grid which would greatly endanger the linemen for the power company.

    But you would only need a new generator if it wasn’t powering your home. I don’t know your gen-set but ours is a Generac and has done well in many multi-day outages. I think your switching equipment would be less expensive to replace than the actual generator, but that’s a guess, really.

    Good luck!

  211. 211
    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Not Barack, but still pretty good: DeRay Mckesson.

  212. 212
    zhena gogolia says:

    @J R in WV:

    Thanks. Still waiting for the tech people.

  213. 213
    zhena gogolia says:

    @J R in WV:

    Ours is a Briggs & Stratton.

  214. 214
    Aleta says:

    @low-tech cyclist: I’ve always liked that verse.

  215. 215
    Soprano2 says:

    @WaterGirl: Thanks, it’s a time thing. I thought it was important to get my thoughts on this out.

  216. 216
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @NotMax: One of the maxims of my not-half-misspent-enough youth was Grape Nuts is not a venereal disease!

  217. 217
    zhena gogolia says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: @Gin & Tonic: @J R in WV:

    Aaah, the sounds of silence. It was some strange thing where a wire inside the panel had fallen off its connection. He has no idea why it happened. I’m still feeling uneasy, but at least the generator is off and we’re on utility power and I can hear myself think.

    I missed the funeral though.

    Thank you for your sympathetic ears!

  218. 218
    Aleta says:

    Good tag line, Stuff About Black People Written By a Black Person
    The tag goes back at least as far as when imani gandy wrote here.

    Thanks for the links AL.

  219. 219
    WaterGirl says:

    @Soprano2: Glad you did!

  220. 220
    dopey-o says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Freidman Railroad Salvage (“Home of the Dented Can”) used to advertise on Channel 11 late at night. Generally during “Wrestling at the Chase.”

  221. 221
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    Roots?!?!

    That would not be my first recommendation. No knock against Haley, but geez!

  222. 222
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Keep the orange jumpsuit. Lose the blackface.

    I once hosted a (private) Halloween party where a couple came as Branch Davidians. Charcoal all over their faces, melted glasses, messed-up hair, burned clothing. They were white, from Louisiana, pretty sure not racist, and I don’t know that it even occurred to them that they sorta looked like they were wearing blackface. But it wasn’t intended as blackface so no problem IMO.

Comments are closed.