And Then There Were Two

Another accusation against VA Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax:

A Maryland woman said Friday she was raped by Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax (D) in a “premeditated and aggressive” assault in 2000, while they both were undergraduate students at Duke University. She is the second woman this week to make an accusation of sexual assault.

The woman, Meredith Watson, said Friday in a written statement through her attorney that she shared her account immediately after it happened with several classmates and friends. Watson did not speak publicly Friday and her lawyer did not make her available for an interview.

Fairfax denied the allegations forcefully.

“I deny this latest unsubstantiated allegation,” Fairfax said in a statement. “It is demonstrably false. I have never forced myself on anyone ever.”

Watson was friends with Fairfax at Duke but they never dated or had any romantic relationship, Watson’s lawyer, Nancy Erika Smith, said.

My general feeling is if this true, there will be more to come. There’s never just one, it seems.






333 replies
  1. 1
    Kent says:

    Unless I miss my guess….when the dust finally settles we may see both white guys still in office and the black guy going down. That will not sit well.

  2. 2
    Brickley Paiste says:

    This was like 20 years ago, right?

  3. 3
    ruemara says:

    It makes me feel nauseous.

  4. 4
    VeniceRiley says:

    Yes, there will be more than two (as of now) and I could not care less about the optics. If substantiated, he has to go! the email from 2016 and the time-of-incident reports here are damning, to my eye.

  5. 5
    Johnny Gentle (famous crooner) says:

    Oh wait, now there has to be people immediately screaming “ratfuck!” and blaming Roger Stone because only Republicans commit sexual assault. Democrats are simply framed for it.

  6. 6
    Gin & Tonic says:

    I think the rule of thumb is if there’s one, it *could* be just one, but if it’s two, then there’s a lot more.

  7. 7
    JPL says:

    All I can say is just fuck.

  8. 8
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    “Believe women” still looking like, generally, a good rule of thumb.

  9. 9
    guachi says:

    @Kent: Which of the three officials are accused of (or have admitted to) doing something illegal?

  10. 10
    VeniceRiley says:

    Kaneedreck Adams, 40, who attended Duke with Watson, said that in the spring of 2000, when they lived across from each other in on-campus apartments, Watson came to her crying.
    “She was upset,” Adams, an attorney, said. “She told me she had been raped and she named Justin.”
    “She said she couldn’t speak, but she was trying to get up and he kept pushing her down,” Adams. “She said he knew that she didn’t like what was happening, but he kept pushing her down.”
    The alleged attack happened at fraternity house, Adams said.

    Watson’s attorney provided an email exchange from 2016 between Watson and Milagros Joye Brown, a friend from Duke. Brown was inviting a group of Duke friends to a fundraiser for Fairfax, as he launched his campaign for lieutenant governor.
    “Molly, Justin raped me in college and I don’t want to hear anything about him. Please, please, please remove me form any future emails about him please,” Watson wrote on Oct. 26, 2016.

    He is toast.

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    I’m kind of glad. I was a little concerned about the precedent we would set if we forced an elected Dem to resign over a single unsubstantiated allegation, no matter how crediible it sounded.

  12. 12
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @ruemara:

    I was just coming here to say the same thing. Quite literally, this makes my gut lurch. I am nauseated and very, very sad.

  13. 13
    Mary G says:

    I find both these women just as believable as I did Christine Blasey Ford, and though I am sad to lose an African-American public servant, we can’t call for rejection of Bart Kavanaugh and then for Fairfax to stay.

  14. 14
    Howard Beale IV says:

    Stick a fork in ’em…

  15. 15
    John Cole says:

    @Kent: Yep. Will be awful.

  16. 16
    Yarrow says:

    Oh…this is awful. I feel ill.

  17. 17
    gene108 says:

    @Kent:

    Rape is worse than dressing up as your favorite rapper / pop-star.

    No one gets materially injured, if you dress up as Kurtis Blow, with dark make-up or face paint on. People are offended, but no one’s going through a life time of trauma, because someone dress up as their favorite rapper for a party.

    I also don’t want to kill political careers, for every stupid thing someone did in college. No one would be perfect enough to ever get elected as a Democrat.

  18. 18
    smintheus says:

    The first accusation seemed highly credible, and Fairfax’s grandiose denial of it convinced me he was probably guilty as charged. The second accusation appears even more credible than the first. He should have resigned days ago.

  19. 19
    opiejeanne says:

    @Brickley Paiste: So, you excuse rape if it happened 20 years ago? Am I misunderstanding your comment?

  20. 20
    Kent says:

    @guachi: That’s my point. Regardless of the facts, the optics on this are going to be horrible. And I’m going to be guessing here but I suspect demoralizing as hell for the black community if the black guy goes down and the two white guys are left standing no matter what the circumstances.

  21. 21
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    This was like 20 years ago, right?

    So? What’s your point? Serious question — why should that make a particle of difference to the truth or falsity of Ms Watson’s accusation?

  22. 22
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Kent:

    Some might suggest that being a serial rapist is worse than impersonating Michael Jackson.

  23. 23
    grandpa john says:

    @Baud: Now if he was a supreme court justice . all these allegations wouldn’t matter would they????

  24. 24
    khead says:

    @Baud:

    I’m not sure whether I should laugh or cry at this comment.

  25. 25
    Yutsano says:

    @opiejeanne: @SiubhanDuinne: DNFTT. I don’t take him seriously anywhere anymore.

  26. 26
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @opiejeanne:
    No, the blackface stuff.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @opiejeanne:
    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Your arguing with a known troll. Nothing good can come from it.

  28. 28
    smintheus says:

    @opiejeanne: Earlier it was all just ‘ratf*cking’, now it’s ‘old news’. Tomorrow, who knows, maybe ‘locker room banter’ or ‘boys being boys’?

  29. 29
    Baud says:

    @grandpa john: A Republican justice, no it wouldn’t.

    @khead: Neither. I hope we never really have to confront that dilemma.

  30. 30
    Fair Economist says:

    @guachi: Obviously rape is much worse than blackface as well as being illegal. Still, it’s a very disconcerting outcome if reports of an elected official doing blackface result in a black man being forced to resign while the men who did or supported blackface get to stay. And no matter what happens to Northam or Herring, that Republican isn’t going to resign.

  31. 31
    Humdog says:

    How could he say the rape accusation was “demonstrably untrue?” He isn’t raping her right this minute is the only demonstration occurring now. His outbursts are way too Kavanaughesque. Ugh!

  32. 32
    lamh36 says:

    They all need to go…and at this point, I don’t care bout the line of succession.

    Time to just…

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/15139f5b13c0624bc9d68a2fe4af44c99f2e9f91a7bb9d69880387c9c0235760.gif

  33. 33
    MJS says:

    Lt. Gov. Fairfax, resign now.

    Gov. Northam, appoint an AA woman as his replacement. Then, after an appropriate period of time (e.g., a month) resign to spend more time with your family.

  34. 34
    Kent says:

    @gene108: Yes of course rape is worse than attending a frat party in blackface.

    I’m a 50+ white guy so not really in a position to say. But I would argue that you can draw a very short and straight line between white guys doing blackface at frat parties and white cops shooting black kids. It’s all part of the same malignant thread.

  35. 35
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Yutsano:

    Whew, that is a relief. The weight of the knowledge that Yutsano was taking me seriously was a truly heavy burden to carry.

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @MJS: That would be ideal.

    @lamh36: Herring looks like he’s staying, at the very least.

  37. 37
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Baud:

    “You’re”

  38. 38
    banditqueen says:

    (from AL thread)
    The Reverend William J. Barber has an oped in WaPo:

    …Scapegoating politicians who are caught in the act of interpersonal racism will not address the fundamental issue of systemic racism. We have to talk about policy. But we also have to talk about trust and power. If white people in political leadership are truly repentant, they will listen to black and other marginalized people in our society. They will confess that they have sinned and demonstrate their willingness to listen and learn by following and supporting the leadership of others. To confess past mistakes while continuing to insist that you are still best suited to lead because of your experience is itself a subtle form of white supremacy.
    At the same time, we cannot allow political enemies of Virginia’s governor to call for his resignation over a photo when they continue themselves to vote for the policies of white supremacy. If anyone wants to call for the governor’s resignation, they should also call for the resignation of anyone who has supported racist voter suppression or policies that have a disparate impact on communities of color…
    …In our present moral crisis, we must remember that real repentance is possible — and it looks like working together to build the multiethnic democracy we’ve never yet been.

    Republicans don’t repent—they’ll work to see that their racist agenda is entrenched—gerrymandering, excessive police authority, blocking health care reform, wars of plunder, destroying gun laws, stripping workers’ rights, environmental destruction, voter suppression.
    I hope that Northam will work with Rev Barber & and POC in VA to start the healing process, and set an example for the US to finally talk about the original sin of slavery.

  39. 39

    OT:
    I just finished rereading Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. The way T was netted was classic Soviet/Russian strategy for nearly all of the last century. Putin just happened to be the one that was able to execute it successfully.

  40. 40
    opiejeanne says:

    @Yutsano: Thank you for reminding me who/what this guy is. He isn’t pied on this computer, for some reason but I will take care of that shortly.

  41. 41

    I look at the prominent politicians and others credibly accused of sexual assault and I’m kind of staggered. Are they representative of male action? What percentage of men engage in this at some time in their lives? Have I been naïve about the men I know professionally, socially, in my family?

  42. 42
    Humdog says:

    @VeniceRiley: How could Molly continue to support Fairfax after Watson told her this?? Ugh, these poor women seeing their attacker raised up to Lt. Gov.

  43. 43
    gene108 says:

    @MJS:

    Same plan I was going to suggest. This really needs to happen. If there isn’t an AA woman with enough experience in VA, to be taken as a credible Lt. Gov., than get an Asian woman, and if neither of those are available, get a white woman, but check her middle school, high school, and college yearbooks to make sure there’s nothing racist in it and she’s never had membership in the Daughters of the Confederacy and such.

  44. 44
    opiejeanne says:

    @smintheus: I feel sick over the Fairfax accusations, sicker than I did with the stupid blackface stuff.

  45. 45
    Yutsano says:

    @MJS: The problem (I think) is that approval has to go through the Assembly. And the Republicans have zero incentive to allow this to happen. So I don’t know if that would work. But that’s what should happen.

  46. 46
    JPL says:

    Fairfax can resign in order to clear his name, and say that once it’s cleared he’ll be back. Then we’d never see or here of him again. If the governor can appoint his successor, it needs to be a black female as mentioned above.

  47. 47
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @opiejeanne: It is ABSOLUTELY part of the ratfucker playbook that we have to pit these evils against each other.

  48. 48
    Humdog says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I still believe the proportion of rapey men is low, they are prolific however. Anyone who is an entitled bastard may feel entitled to take what isn’t theirs, so I assume the entitled powerful people you know may be suspect, but the total proportion among men must be low.

  49. 49
    Brickley Paiste says:

    If there isn’t an AA woman with enough experience in VA, to be taken as a credible Lt. Gov., than get an Asian woman, and if neither of those are available, get a white woman,

    Shouldn’t there be a Latina/Lesbian/Trans/Native American/Muslim woman in there before you start scraping the bottom of the barrel accepting a white woman?

  50. 50
    JPL says:

    @Yutsano: There’s a big exception. If they refuse to elect a black woman, that would certainly hurt them at the next election.

  51. 51

    And you just know that there’s plenty of Republican officials in Virginia who are thinking “Ha-ha, we got away with it and you didn’t.”

    Fk.

  52. 52
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Baud: The first accusation is a he said, she said thing. The story I read she did consented, just not to the particular act that happened, so erm?

    This new one sounds clear cut, she said no, he didn’t care. Of course assuming it’s all true since racists framing black men as rapist is an old game in this country, so hey, a little due process here.

  53. 53
    MJS says:

    @gene108: I’m trying to think of a level of experience that would be disqualifying in this cluster-fuck. Can’t come up with one.

  54. 54
    zhena gogolia says:

    @MJS:

    That makes too much sense so it won’t happen.

  55. 55
    Kent says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I look at the prominent politicians and others credibly accused of sexual assault and I’m kind of staggered. Are they representative of male action? What percentage of men engage in this at some time in their lives? Have I been naïve about the men I know professionally, socially, in my family?

    I would argue (with no particular evidence at hand) that the extroverted and self-important personality traits that tend to lead to success in politics and business and entertainment (at least for men) are also those traits that might make it more likely for that person to feel entitled to assault women. Just a theory. The shy polite guys are not those who generally rise to the top in business or politics.

  56. 56
    Yutsano says:

    @JPL: I’m not going to put that up as a reason to select an AA woman, but it counts as a nice perquisite. I’m certain there’s a competent Assemblywoman who could fit the bill. Hopefully in a safe district.

  57. 57
    zhena gogolia says:

    @banditqueen:

    That is a remarkable statement by Barber.

  58. 58
    Martin says:

    @Humdog: The problem isn’t the proportion – the problem is that they’ve never had to pay for their rapey behavior, which means they’re everywhere. That’s why they all need to be held account, regardless of how long ago it was, how much locker room talk it was, whether they feel like it was a different time or necessary to moonwalk properly. They have to pay, and if it’s now, then so be it.

  59. 59
    VeniceRiley says:

    @Humdog:

    @VeniceRiley: How could Molly continue to support Fairfax after Watson told her this?? Ugh, these poor women seeing their attacker raised up to Lt. Gov.

    I KNOW, RIGHT?! That was my first thought.

  60. 60
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Yes, probably. The number of “stereotypical” rapists (dark alley/knife/force/etc.) is tiny. But I’d guess that the number of “I was just being persistent/we were both drunk/she texted me the next day like it was fine” is about 1 in 3.

  61. 61
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @lamh36:

    They all need to go…and at this point, I don’t care bout the line of succession.

    Oh you didn’t hear about Number #4, a Republican who a youth editeding the racist packed year book for his class at VMI? Boy howdy now that’s an improvement.

  62. 62
    Fair Economist says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: 100 Senators, 100 Governors and Lieutenant Governors or equivalent, 9 Supreme Court Justices. I don’t know offhand the percentage that is male, but let’s say 75%. That’s about 157 men in these high offices. We’ve had 2 with highly credible accusations of rape recently – that’s 1%. That’s 2 more than there should be for such an awful crime, and each event is horrible, but it’s not an extremely high rate.

  63. 63
    gene108 says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    Latina…forgot about that…not sure how large the Native American population is in VA to have people in high enough office to be considered LT. Gov material. Lesbian/Trans isn’t determined by race, and wouldn’t have a direct impact on making sure the person selected didn’t do racist things in the past. Islam is not confined to a specific race and no guarantee a Muslim did something racist or not. There’s plenty of racism out there that’s not just confined to whites and blacks.

  64. 64
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Kent:

    This is a plausible theory.

    @Fair Economist:

    Those are just the one’s who’ve been caught in the past few days …

  65. 65
    lamh36 says:

    Well guess all the most ardent defenders of the “Low key relevence” of Blackface can rest easy…what the Black guy allegedly did is even worse than the white guys actually did.

    Huzzah…

    I use the word “allegedly”, cause I still believe in investigations…still my advise right now…they all resign and then…

    https://media1.tenor.com/images/be1192aa9e556d659bc1326d159cb4eb/tenor.gif?itemid=10506929

  66. 66
    opiejeanne says:

    @zhena gogolia: i’m deferring all judgment to POC. I’m white, and I know I don’t know even a tenth of what I need to know, while they know it in their blood and bones.

  67. 67
    Mary G says:

    In better news, John Dingell dictated a lovely farewell statement to his wife, and it is now up in the WaPo with the title “My Last Words for America.”

    In my life and career I have often heard it said that so-and-so has real power — as in, “the powerful Wile E. Coyote, chairman of the Capture the Road Runner Committee.”

    It’s an expression that has always grated on me. In democratic government, elected officials do not have power. They hold power — in trust for the people who elected them. If they misuse or abuse that public trust, it is quite properly revoked (the quicker the better).

    What a treasure we have lost, and to see these incoherent screamers on the Republican side of the Whitaker hearing and compare them with Dingell is horrific.

  68. 68
    Martin says:

    @banditqueen:

    To confess past mistakes while continuing to insist that you are still best suited to lead because of your experience is itself a subtle form of white supremacy.

    That is not a subtle form of white supremacy. It is the very definition of white privilege and the prerequisite foundation of whjte supremacy. That why as I say above, these people must pay for their acts, even if it was done decades ago. To not do so it to say that they weren’t actually bad acts.

  69. 69
    ProfDamatu says:

    @Fair Economist: Agreed about the Republican, and it pisses me off on a number of levels. I mean, there’s the obvious, but my knee-jerk reaction is that what he did is worse than what Herring did, and maybe even worse than Northam’s initial conduct (not his reaction to the story). I was also a yearbook editor (high school, not college) and I knew damn well that I was responsible for what went onto its pages. Yeah, my staff had input (and so would individual students, if we had done personal pages), but at least among the student staff, the buck stopped with me. And I did receive blow-back for some of my coverage decisions!*

    That Republican asshole may not have worn blackface himself, but he chose to allow three blackface photos and apparently multiple racial slurs to be published in the book he edited. I think that’s worse than wearing blackface at a costume party, because at the party, a limited number of people will see you, and the message to the community is only that you, yourself, are a racist asshole. Allowing that crap to be published in the yearbook sends the message that the school community, however we want to construe that, is A-OK with blatant displays of racism. (This ain’t “shedding a light” style journalism; that’s not what yearbooks are for.) And of course, it lets nonwhite students at that institution know just what many of their white peers think of them (I mean, they already knew, but I imagine it’s another blow to find that shit in your yearbook). And, again, it was Repub asshole’s call to publish it. And yet, he will face no consequences, because his voters are fine with it.

    *Not blackface photos! I did, however, do some re-organization of the book that moved some of the “glamor photos” (seriously – these weren’t even candids at the dances, they were posed portraits) of the kids on the various courts (homecoming, prom, etc.) to the index, in favor of more broad coverage of student activities participated in by all students. Given who was on the courts (popular kids) and who I was (extremely unpopular kid), yeah, folks were not pleased. :-P

  70. 70
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @Brickley Paiste: Pied.

  71. 71
    VeniceRiley says:

    @Humdog: Disagree. I think we’ve all been acting like there aren’t a lot of rapey men in order to preserve a fiction. I think there are a LOT. Not as many as there are victims, but A LOT.

  72. 72

    @opiejeanne: They are not a monolith, who all think alike.

  73. 73
    HeleninEire says:

    @Baud: Agreed. If there are 2 there are many more.

  74. 74
    Kent says:

    @Martin:

    @Humdog: The problem isn’t the proportion – the problem is that they’ve never had to pay for their rapey behavior, which means they’re everywhere. That’s why they all need to be held account, regardless of how long ago it was, how much locker room talk it was, whether they feel like it was a different time or necessary to moonwalk properly. They have to pay, and if it’s now, then so be it.

    It also takes no small degree of “asshole-ness” to rise to the top in business and politics, especially for men. You gotta be able to step on people. There are exceptions, I think Obama was one. But a whole lot of them are entitled pricks on both sides of the aisle. Kavanaugh is the archetype.

  75. 75
    Martin says:

    @Fair Economist: It’s not, though I’d bet quite a lot there are more that we don’t know about. But we have to acknowledge that these are the most prominent jobs in the country, that we assume some significant degree of screening either formal or informal would have occurred. The rapey/racist ones aren’t even supposed to get so far along in the process to even be considered for high office, yet they do seem to get through with alarming regularity.

  76. 76
    lamh36 says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Nope I include him in my assessment too.

    that’s what THEY ALL NEED TO GO means, btw

  77. 77
    opiejeanne says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: And it’s good pie, isn’t it? Cherry pie was the most recent one.

  78. 78
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah, it’s kind of startling to see well-meaning white folks say they are going to defer to “the black opinion”. I suspect that they are also people who profess to like “ethnic food.” I mean, I know their heart may be in the right place and all, but c’mon y’all.

  79. 79
    zhena gogolia says:

    @VeniceRiley:

    A LOT

    Any woman just needs to look back on her life with clear eyes to realize it.

  80. 80
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @VeniceRiley: That’s a perceptive comment, thank you. Rape is an inconvenient truth that more men need to address, unfortunately.

  81. 81
    Fair Economist says:

    @ProfDamatu: I’d agree that what the Republican did was worse than Herring. Blackface is part of the mechanism of oppression, depicting African Americans in very derogatory ways, but I don’t think Herring intended that. Northam is unclear – trying to look like Michael Jackson in a dance competition probably wasn’t intended to be derogatory but that photo sure was and we don’t really know if he was involved with the photo (although I’d bet he was somehow). OTOH putting such photos in a yearbook is definitely intended to oppress.

  82. 82
    PsiFighter37 says:

    I did say it was likely that Fairfax was going to be toast first. Methinks Gov. Herring is the most likely outcome here.

  83. 83
    TruthOfAngels says:

    @Fair Economist: Yes, but that carries with it the assumption that there are no unrevealed rapists among the (approximately) 155 others. If I were a gambler. that would not be an outcome on which I was prepared to bet.

  84. 84
    opiejeanne says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes, I’m not quite that dim, but regardless of that they all know more than I do about what this means. I have an opinion of what should happen, but because I’m white I’m deferring to people with first-hand knowledge. I’ve observed racism in action, and in two instances tried to stop it because I was in a position to do so, but that’s still just an outsider’s view and not lived experience.
    What I’m trying to say is that I feel unqualified to make the decisions.

  85. 85
    B.B.A. says:

    I want to apologize. I held off on condemning Fairfax as forcefully as I would have, because I was suspicious of the timing and the fact that allegations have been a weapon of white supremacy in the past. This was wrong of me, and I’m sorry.

    Justin Fairfax is a rapist and cannot be allowed to remain in public office any longer.

    Ralph Northam and Mark Herring are white supremacists and also cannot be allowed to remain in public office any longer.

    This means elevating a member of the Republican Party, which stands for rape and white supremacy, to the governorship and allowing them to impose their hateful policies on the Commonwealth for at least the next three years.

    God-fucking-dammit.

  86. 86
    Chetan Murthy says:

    When there was only one accuser victim and no corroboration, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But now with two unrelated victims, it seems pretty damn likely he’s a perv. One more (amongst the non-denumerable) reason to elect women.

  87. 87
    ProfDamatu says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The first accusation is a he said, she said thing. The story I read she did consented, just not to the particular act that happened, so erm?

    I’m really not trying to have a go at you, but this – “she consented but not to the particular act that happened?” Yeah, that means she didn’t, in fact, consent. Not to be gross, but if I consent to kissing, that doesn’t automatically mean that I’ve consented to finger-banging, and if the guy does it anyway after I’ve said no, then he has indeed sexually assaulted me. Does not matter that I consented to the initial act. It just doesn’t.

  88. 88
    Barbara says:

    @Kent:

    That’s my point. Regardless of the facts, the optics on this are going to be horrible. And I’m going to be guessing here but I suspect demoralizing as hell for the black community if the black guy goes down and the two white guys are left standing no matter what the circumstances.

    Yes. I would say, however, that at this point the VBC should work with the state Democratic party to identify who they would nominate. I wish I could say I know who that might be.

  89. 89
    opiejeanne says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Oh, and I was not referring to Fairfax with my comment; I have a definite opinion of him and what should happen to him.
    I was referring to the judgment of the blackface three and what should be done about them.

  90. 90
    Mandalay says:

    @opiejeanne:

    the stupid blackface stuff

    Merely “stupid”? Seriously?

    And how would you describe the person posing in a photo in a KKK hood? “Regrettable stuff”? “Unfortunate stuff”? “Misguided stuff”?

  91. 91

    @opiejeanne: FWIW I think it is for people of Virginia to judge the fate of their elected leaders. I hate this American caste system based on color as much as I hate the Indian caste system. Throwing the control of Virginia to Rs based on moral outrage is stupid. YMMV.

  92. 92
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Gin & Tonic: That tends to be the case. It is generally serial behavior.

  93. 93
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @B.B.A.:

    How many women do you think will die from illegal abortions after the Republicans seize control in Virginia?

    I’d submit that number will be greater than zero.

  94. 94
    Barbara says:

    @B.B.A.: Timing is everything. Nothing has to be done RIGHT NOW.

  95. 95
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    Fuck the fuck off, fucker.

    (Okay, that’s it. I’m all out of Purina Troll Chow, so no more FTT from me tonight.)

  96. 96
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @B.B.A.: That won’t happen. Talk about realpolitik getting thrown out in favor of absolute purity. Yikes.

  97. 97
    B.B.A. says:

    @Brickley Paiste: Hence my “God-fucking-dammit.” Oh, and give my regards to President Putin, comrade.

  98. 98
    Barbara says:

    @schrodingers_cat: My mileage does not vary. All this does is encourage people to sit on information and then win power without ever winning elections simply by revealing explosive information. No way, I am not trying to protect anyone but myself and other people whose rights are in the crossfire.

  99. 99
    Humdog says:

    @VeniceRiley: I have known hundreds of men but have been sexually assaulted by four. To be able to greet the men in my life without cringing, I will choose to believe the proportion is low.

  100. 100
    Procopius says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Still, it’s a very disconcerting outcome if reports of an elected official doing blackface result in a black man being forced to resign while the men who did or supported blackface get to stay.

    For the life of me I cannot parse this sentence to make sense. How does Northam’s alleged use of blackface force a black man to resign? Fairfax is being accused of committing two violent crimes, felonies. The accusations against him are in no way connected to Northam. I am not going to be upset if the men who used blackface thirty years ago remain in office.

    And no matter what happens to Northam or Herring, that Republican isn’t going to resign.

    This just adds to my confusion. What Republican?

  101. 101
    Barbara says:

    @B.B.A.: Oh wow, congratulations, you will be upset about those deaths and voter suppression and gerrymandering. Well that really makes it all worthwhile.

  102. 102
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mandalay: Don’t put words in my mouth.
    The hood-wearing is far worse than the blackface, and the blackface is terrible in my view, although the dressing up like a favorite rapper just seems more stupid than evil. The governor at age 25 in blackface (if that’s him) posing next to the KKK hooded guy is far worse, especially at that age. If he’s in the white robes, he’s beyond redemption.

    Now I shall go flagellate myself because I didn’t express myself in a way of which you approve.

  103. 103
    VeniceRiley says:

    @banditqueen: Reverend Barber needs to write the identical column about sexism and male supremacy, imo.

  104. 104
    Yutsano says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I’m all out of Purina Troll Chow

    I’m cutting off your ration lady! This troll isn’t even any fun.

  105. 105
    Barbara says:

    @Procopius: Tommie Norment, the editor of the extremely racist VMI yearbook who “can’t be held responsible” for every racist statement in a yearbook he edited.

  106. 106
    Kent says:

    So I graduated from college in 1986 which puts me between Faifax and Northam in terms of age.

    Thinking back, I had a sophomore year roommate who was a prolific horndog. This was at an elite west coast private school. The dorms were made with adjacent rooms with doors so he would pass through my room to get to his and then could close the door. He had women in his room constantly, and I’m sure a lot of them were drunk or high on MDA or something else.

    I have to wonder now if any of those those women were actually raped.

    It is a sobering thought exercise. And I gotta say I was pretty much oblivious to it at the time.

  107. 107
    ProfDamatu says:

    @Fair Economist: Lol, you just said what I intended to convey, but much more concisely and elegantly. Thanks! :-)

  108. 108
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @B.B.A.:

    I suppose as the women die of sepsis following the botched abortions they will be comforted by the knowledge that Virginia’s Governor’s mansion is no longer inhabited by someone who had a racist photo appear in a yearbook 35 years ago.

    Are you really that much of a fucking idiot? Well, I guess you are since you apparently think that anyone who doesn’t agree with you “Lets burn it all down” theory of governance just must be a Russian operative.

  109. 109

    Just based on this scandal it seems like black face was fairly common among people of a certain age and class in Virginia. I wonder how many other electeds in Va have such photos in their past. I doubt that these 3 are the only ones.

    ETA: Are only the Ds supposed to purge their elected members? While the Rs can continue in office. I can see how this is distasteful and agonizing to black people, but only purging our electeds doesn’t seem to be the solution.

  110. 110
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @VeniceRiley: @The Thin Black Duke: Exactly, and thank you for the comment. Men allow men to behave that way – the serial predators are generally known and people just look the other way. Often men and women will warn people away from the rapey guys once they know, but too often not.

  111. 111
    lamh36 says:

    Anyway…no worries though…this likely means Fairfax is out.

    @AmandaCrumleyLA
    4m4 minutes ago
    More
    Apparently big news coming out of Virginia at 6:25 PM on CNN. Tuning in…

  112. 112
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yearbooks are being scoured right now.

  113. 113
    Mike E says:

    Reverend Barber needs to write the identical column about sexism and male supremacy

    there’s no pleasing some people, apparently

  114. 114
    J R in WV says:

    @Humdog:

    I still believe the proportion of rapey men is low, they are prolific however. …

    Yes, the processing of old rape kits for DNA evidence shows that rapists are mostly serial criminals, raping women for years until they are caught, then resuming that horrid career after they are released from prison.

    So while there probably are not that many men who rape, those who do rape do it over and over. Despicable brutalizing monsters, actually, not men at all.

  115. 115
    JR says:

    I’ll say for Fairfax what I said for Kavanaugh. We need to lengthen the statute of limitations on rape.

  116. 116
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @lamh36:

    Nope I include him in my assessment too.

    Do you seriously think a Republican pol gives the slightest shit about your assessment and is only thinking “here is my chance to disenfranchises as many of those minorities, feminists, intellectuals and hippies as possible and reclaim this state for the godly TRUE Americans (as in white, male, Republican, evangelical) “? I mean the guy did go to Friking VMI, Stonewall Jackson’s own kamikazes.

    Consider this, maybe Northman is racists as a fuck and gone but has the sense in his head that after they are threw with the blacks they are coming for him as a baby killing pediatrician so best to fight back when there are the numbers? You know, that democracy thing…

  117. 117
    B.B.A. says:

    My feelings right now are best expressed in the immortal words of Chinese warlord Zhang Xianzhong:

    Heaven brings forth innumerable things to nurture man.
    Man has nothing good with which to recompense Heaven.
    Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill.

  118. 118
    Mandalay says:

    @banditqueen:

    I hope that Northam will work with Rev Barber & and POC in VA to start the healing process…

    Really? That’s mighty white of you.

    I hope that Northam will follow the advice given in the statement issued yesterday by the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, and resign:

    We called for Governor Northam’s resignation sharply and swiftly because all of the facts were before us immediately. That is still our position.

    Now that’s a healing process.

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @Mike E: Yeah that’s pretty bullshitty. Of the “liberals need to speak out against Farrakhan” variety.

  120. 120
    Chip Daniels says:

    Because all these scandals erupted at the same time, its easy to compress them all together into one entity.
    But they are very different things, and the accusations against Fairfax stand apart. This isn’t a matter of insensitivity, this is an alleged crime, with a personal set of victims who need justice.

    I don’t think we should flinch because he is black- his accuser is also, and she is no less a victim.

  121. 121
    EthylEster says:

    It is demonstrably false.

    What does this mean? That the allegation can be demonstrated to be false?
    Well, then let’s start the demonstrating.

  122. 122
    Barbara says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Based on what I have read, in situations like fraternity houses, men who rape assume that all men are like themselves, and the men who don’t rape likewise assume that all men are like themselves. Which is why they leap to the defense of the rapist and feel so threatened by accusations of rape. It takes a lot of evidence for them to understand that the rapist has quite different ideas of what constitutes consent and normal sexual behavior.

  123. 123

    @Baud: I am sure, and we will find more such specimens.

  124. 124
    opiejeanne says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I agree that the people of VA should decide, first and foremost.
    That third guy down the line, he’s the part that I can’t get around, that spot between the hard place and the rock. On the one hand the governor and lt gov need to go (my opinion as a white woman/rape victim) but to abandon the state to the tender mercies of the Republicans is the point where I can’t tell that state or POC what they should do.
    What they do about the #3 guy is where the judgment will fall, or fail. If all three resign you know that asshole in the #4 slot won’t resign because of his previous behavior. He probably isn’t even sorry.
    The thing I’m most concerned about is the redrawing of district lines under another Republican. The gerrymandering was going to be fixed under this administration in VA, and if the Republicans have control of that business, nothing will change, and down the road it gets worse for POC and voters, and everyone else.

  125. 125
    Mary G says:

    @lamh36: I want whatever lamh wants. Like Cole, I have made an attempt to follow a lot of black men and women on Twitter. I never comment, except to “heart” pictures of lamh’s adorable nieces and nephews, because one thing I keep hearing loud and clear is that they want white people to STFU and listen instead of whitesplaining or asking to be educated or loudly agreeing so everyone can see how woke we are. And I have learned a lot about unconscious assumptions and norms that I have never really thought about.

  126. 126
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @Barbara: Thing is, this horrendous clusterfuck in Virginia is still developing and, in the end, I wouldn’t be surprised if Herring manages to survive this. And I trust that the African-American voters are pragmatic enough to understand what’s at stake and keep their eyes on the prize.

  127. 127
    ProfDamatu says:

    @Barbara: Ugh again! Can’t be held responsible, my ass! WTF does he think an editor is even *for*? (Spoiler – yeah, he knows, and in this case he was using his editorial power to hurt POC.) The awful thing is, though, that of course he *isn’t* going to be held accountable.

  128. 128
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah, Cole pointed that out the other day. “Heritage days”, hoop skirts, confederate uniforms, etc. were pretty common in the South in the 80s before I left there to go to college far away.

    And, when I was at college it was common to have “South of the Border” parties. Mainly an excuse to drink Corona/Tequila and eat tasty tacos, but plenty of women dressed up in peasant blouses or whatever you call them and both sexes wore sombreros and serapes and some even applied excessive amounts of spray on bronzer and stuck on fake cheesy mustaches. At the time I didn’t even think about it. Now I cringe.

    I wonder if this will become the outrage de jour at some point?

  129. 129
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Yutsano:

    haha, Purina Troll Chow is hilarious

  130. 130
    Baud says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: That’s what I think. Either Herring survives or Northam replaces Fairfax who (the replacement) then becomes governor. But Northam seems to be digging in his heels so I’m not sure how you get him out of there.

  131. 131
    guachi says:

    @Brickley Paiste: No real point in responding to B.B.A. B.B.A is a racist who believes that no white man should be elected to any office simply because he’s a white man.

    Don’t feed the racist trolls.

  132. 132
    opiejeanne says:

    @Yutsano: He said something so nasty to me up thread just before I pied him that it took my breath away. I didn’t respond, but I pied him good and proper after that.
    The nerve!

  133. 133

    @opiejeanne

    :The thing I’m most concerned about is the redrawing of district lines under another Republican. The gerrymandering was going to be fixed under this administration in VA, and if the Republicans have control of that business, nothing will change, and down the road it gets worse for POC and voters, and everyone else.

    Yes, we need to be strategic and deal with the electorate we have not the one we wish we had.
    This internecine warfare between Ds helps Rs, who need to be defeated at every level, and soon. We can’t hand them an important state. This is my opinion FWIW. YMMV.

  134. 134
    smintheus says:

    Fairfax should resign immediately because he committed crimes. Northam can take his time about resigning until he has confirmed a new Lt. Gov., but I don’t see any reason to believe his claim that he knows nothing about the photo in question and therefore he’s too shady to remain as governor.

    I don’t have terribly strong opinions about Herring. He had the decency to admit to what he did and apologize, but on the other hand he attributed it to his youth when 19 is old enough to know not to pull that racist crap. Also, it’s disturbing that he idolized a creep like Michael Jackson.

  135. 135
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    And indemnity for Steve King!

  136. 136
    Barbara says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: I will not speak for African American voters. I will say that Norment continues the trend of believing that one can only engage in racist behavior if one is doing something unspeakable and obvious. Laughing at other people’s jokes and working them into a yearbook doesn’t count.

  137. 137
    Barbara says:

    @smintheus: It wasn’t Michael Jackson. Maybe try to obtain the actual facts which I am not going to repeat. It was some rapper. It was Northam who did the moonwalk. But yeah, stay in office and appoint successor, effectively. I am going to start asking everyone commenting whether they actually live in Virginia. I know that many of us do.

  138. 138
    Baud says:

    @smintheus: I find 19 to be fairly young and when he was 19, Jackson wasn’t considered a creep.

    ETA:. And what Barbara said.

  139. 139
    banditqueen says:

    The political crisis in VA is fraught with the need for justice, political pragmatism, repentance and forgiveness as Barber points out. Northam is currently working with the VA Black caucus, people of faith, etc. He clearly has not yet come to a full understanding of how deeply racist what he did was, but he is trying to work towards understanding this better and make amends. The amends he makes are important because they will be political: ending voter suppression, starting to address police brutality, addressing gerrymandering, healthcare, education, workers’ right–all crucial and in danger right now. It has been reported that he didn’t want to be labeled as VA’s racist governor on resigning, so he wants to try to improve what he himself destroyed, and seems committed to do so, even if he doesn’t fully comprehend how horrible blackface is. My view is pragmatic at this time–if he could stand for election again my view would be quite different, but after his term ends, he’s very likely done in politics, and will go on to be a university prez or something. But it’s important that he keep the forward momentum regardless of where he ends up. Repubs always make anything worse.

  140. 140
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @opiejeanne:

    Pie filter progressives. Every comment should show who you are pieing, so we know how you censor those here.

    Be glad I’m not designing the new UI.

  141. 141
    lamh36 says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    I believe Herring is likely to survive more than Northam, but Northan certainly believes he’ll survive as well.

    @NicoleSganga
    14m14 minutes ago
    More
    NEW: Governor Northam sends an email to Virginia state employees. In it, he writes, “You have placed your trust in me to lead Virginia forward—and I plan to do that.” (H/T @stevenportnoy)👇👇👇
    https://twitter.com/NicoleSganga/status/1094012556518264832

    Past being prologue, he’s likely right.

  142. 142
    J R in WV says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    RE-Pied, after pieing Beickhead long ago, eventually I un-pied him, because I saw that I was clicking the translate into reality some of his comments, just to track what the Russian troll was into lately.

    Now I’m done. He’s going back in for good!

  143. 143
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @opiejeanne: Good for you. Life is too short to deal with people who like being cruel; it’s asshole behavior and you are under no obligation to tolerate that nonsense.

  144. 144
    debbie says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’m with you. Lose sight of the big picture and we lose all chance of getting this country back to where it should be.

  145. 145
    zhena gogolia says:

    @banditqueen:

    Well, I would hope we would have as high standards for university president (or higher) as we do for governor.

  146. 146
    lamh36 says:

    @Bencjacobs
    5m5 minutes ago
    More
    .@ryanobles is now reporting on CNN that Delegate Patrick Hope is drafting articles of impeachment for Justin Fairfax

  147. 147
    Yutsano says:

    @opiejeanne: Keep track of it. We might have to discuss a house cleaning with Adam later. The ban hammer is rarely used but if the occasion warrants it he can go sit in the sin bin for a while.

  148. 148
    MomSense says:

    Let’s just stick with women candidates, preferably BIPOC women from now on.

  149. 149
    Mary G says:

    Democratic state delegate in Virginia:

    BREAKING: Del. Patrick Hope is preparing articles of impeachment against Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax. He will file them Monday unless the LG resigns on his own before then.— Ryan Nobles (@ryanobles) February 8, 2019

  150. 150
    NotoriousJRT says:

    @khead:
    Cry. Definitely.

  151. 151
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    @grandpa john: Yeah, big mistake being a lt gov. If only he were up for a seat on the USSC these allegations would have no consequences.

  152. 152
    westyny says:

    @MJS: This.

  153. 153
    Damien says:

    @B.B.A.:

    I’m sorry, but calling Mark Herring a “white supremacist” is maybe just a smidgen hyperbolic? You know who’s a fucking white supremacist? THE GUY WHO WANTS TO SUPPRESS MINORITY VOTES, who will in point of fact have free run of the government if all three of these guys go.

    Justin Fairfax needs to go. Northam needs to go. But a stupid 19-year-old kid dressing like up like Kurt Blow, like an idiot, because it didn’t even occur to him that it would be a problem shouldn’t be a political death sentence. I’m sorry, but Jesus fucking Christ how is sacrificing the people of Virginia to the monsters of the Republican Party, in a redistricting year, possibly the right thing to do? Take their healthcare away? Possibly revoke the rights of felons? Why the absolute fuck would anyone ever vote for a Democrat again if we’re just going to sacrifice the literal, actual lives of people to our morality?

    We have literally decades of statements, speeches, opinions, and actions taken by Ralph Northam and Mark Herring, and the same for those who would replace them. We talk constantly around here about not making perfect the enemy of good, and in this particular instance it’s going to lead us to handing our enemies exactly what they want: true blue white supremacy. So I object strenuously to watering down that term.

    But Justin Fairfax has got to go.

  154. 154
    trollhattan says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:
    From your lips to FSM’s ears.

    Guess it’s “good” timing from the standpoint of being very soon post-election with plenty of time to settle things before November ’20. Cold comfort, but much better having it unveiled a year from now.

  155. 155
    banditqueen says:

    @zhena gogolia: Exactly. Title IX protections are being destroyed by DeVos. Academic privacy for students needs reassessment, on & on. I want him to stay as woke as possible.

  156. 156
    smintheus says:

    @Barbara: If we’re talking specifically about frat boys who deny that other frat boys are rapey, it’s not because they’re naive. They’re in denial. They live among the rapey types and accept it; they don’t particularly want to admit that they’re accessories to creating a rapey hot-house environment.

  157. 157
    B.B.A. says:

    @guachi: Please don’t misrepresent my views. I’m a white man and I believe that I and all people who share my gender and complexion should be denied the right to vote simply because we’re white men. And I think the results of the last few elections bear me out on this.

    Now if you consider me racist against myself, I can’t help you. I hate myself for lots of reasons but my race and gender are pretty far down the list.

  158. 158
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @B.B.A.: Ralph Northam and Mark Herring are white supremacists and also cannot be allowed to remain in public office any longer.

    Bullshit. they were stupid young men. What they did was offensive as hell. But they both have very good records on race as elected officials. Northam’s career is finished anyway. Herring has apologized and still has the support of the African_American leaders in the VA Democratic party. But I suspect his career is over too. In their cases that’s enough.

    In Fairfax’s case I was withholding judgement. But now there are more accusers with credible accounts. That’s enough. He should be gone.

  159. 159
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: For what it’s worth, I didn’t see that comment as a criticism or as being ungrateful.

    I took it more as “that was so well thought out and so well written that I wish the same could be done with those two other issues”. And if he’s good enough and thoughtful enough to have written this, maybe he could pull off the other two subjects, also. As I said, for what it’s worth.

  160. 160
    lamh36 says:

    @Mary G: ok…what’s the impeachable offense. However much you believe the women, there has been no investigations and no “evidence” other than the accusations so far. Even with Franken, there was the “photographic evidence”.

    Last I recall, you still need more than just accusations to impeach an elected official? I mean look at Chump

  161. 161
    Baud says:

    @WaterGirl: Ok, maybe. I guess I can see either interpretation. Thanks.

  162. 162
    smintheus says:

    @Barbara: Ok, so I confused the musical taste of one jerk in blackface with the taste of the other jerk in blackface. This disqualifies how?

  163. 163
    zhena gogolia says:

    @WaterGirl:

    That’s what I thought.

  164. 164
    banditqueen says:

    @Mandalay: Well, I’m not white, but you have as pleasant an evening as you can.

  165. 165
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @B.B.A.: PIED. DNFTT

  166. 166
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @smintheus: what horseshit. That’s a mighty broad brush you’re using.

    Let me guess: you were not in a fraternity and those who were didn’t like you and wouldn’t let you join, therefore they are all rapists.

  167. 167
    zhena gogolia says:

    @WaterGirl:

    It’s kind of in the same category as “Why can’t Obama do this too?” we used to say all the time in 2009-16.

  168. 168
    Ruckus says:

    @VeniceRiley:
    I think there are a LOT.
    I just don’t know. But it does seem to be a lot more common than men seem to want to admit. We know the saying, if there are two, there are probably a lot more. But considering how many women there are who say the’ve actually been sexually assaulted, I’d have to think that you are right because either there are a lot or a lot of guys are serial rapists. And how do you know who is one? Or isn’t? I wonder how many women don’t complain, often because they feel they won’t be believed. Or when they do complain it goes nowhere.

  169. 169
    Mike E says:

    @Baud: I’m sure Martin meant well in his edit of the Rev. Dr’s finely wrought words, too… I, however, wouldn’t change a thing. William Barber is doing the work of approximately 100* of us right now, thank gawd!
    *not intended to be an accurate ratio

  170. 170
    zhena gogolia says:

    @smintheus:

    You implied that because it was adoration of Michael Jackson it was somehow even more reprehensible. But it wasn’t Michael Jackson.

  171. 171
    ruemara says:

    @Kent: Shy polite guys rape too. And many men are oblivious about what their buddies do, because they don’t want to believe it.

    This requires strategy. My heart breaks for the democratic voters of VA. Trapped 4 ways. An arrogant idiot, a potential rapist, a young idiot & a slavering wolf of a neoconfederate. This is when you have to cut off the part that bleeds and make brutal choices. Fairfax needs to fucking go. Northam needs to go. Herring should be appointed and then appoint successors. Most of this problem is caused by arrogance and arrogance will push it to a crisis but we can’t get people this angry at the Tyrant to push his treasonous ass out.

  172. 172
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    @Barbara: Of course Northam is a bigoted, clueless and entitled idiot; there’s no disputing that. Problem is, although he’s damaged goods, he’s still going to be better than whatever compliant and dangerous tool the Republicans put in Northam’s place. And yeah, it’s lousy, but I’m used to voting for the lesser of two evils. I learned a long time ago when I was a “negro”, that if you don’t vote, besides not getting what you want, it gets worse.

  173. 173
    smintheus says:

    @Baud: Michael Jackson ca. 1985 was definitely creepy.

  174. 174
    Barbara says:

    @smintheus: Whatever.

  175. 175
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @opiejeanne:

    I’ll save curious readers some time. Here, in their entirety are all of the posts from upthread that I directed to you:

    @opiejeanne:
    No, the blackface stuff.

    So nasty that it took your breath away, eh?

    Well, gosh, I hope you are able to get some soothing tea and regain your composure after that vicious onslaught.

    But please do take Yutz up on his/her suggestion and put this in your scrapbook so you can show front pagers as you build your case for banning me.

  176. 176
    J R in WV says:

    @The Thin Black Duke:

    Thanks for that, Duke! We’re glad you’re here with the rest of the Jackals!

    While I’m sometimes obnoxious, I hope I’m never cruel. And I’m trying to be less obnoxious, also too!

  177. 177
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Wait, I thought Northam copped to dressing up like Michael Jackson but denied that he was in the yearbook photo. Right?

    So hard to keep track.

  178. 178
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36:

    You have placed your trust in me…

    That right there sends me into a rage. No, they DID place their trust in you — to say “You HAVE placed your trust in me” implies that you still have their trust. It makes me want to smack him. Insult to injury, unforgivable injury to begin with.

  179. 179
    eemom says:

    @lamh36:

    However much you believe the women, there has been no investigations and no “evidence” other than the accusations so far.

    Amazing how quickly the enlightened progressive lynch mob tosses due process aside, innit?

    I didn’t find the first accuser credible. I agree that this one SOUNDS credible, but that’s all so far.

    STOP fucking rushing to judgment, people. Nothing good EVER comes from doing that.

  180. 180
    Yutsano says:

    @WaterGirl: …
    This whole damn thing just bites.

  181. 181
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: I assume Delegate is the Virginia version of the Virginia House of Representatives. Good for him.

  182. 182
    lamh36 says:

    @ruemara: @The Thin Black Duke:

    Again, my money is on Fairfax being pushed out, Northam and Herring stays. Northam will likely appoint a Black Lt. Gov, maybe even a Black woman or a white woman. But Northam won’t leave and my money is on him appointing someone Black as a token to Black voters, but not one with any political clout or ambition…just a place holder so that he can finish out his term
    and point to his Black Lt. Gov as reason enough to be left alone.

    He’ll throw enough of a bone or two to Black voters that will be enough in the eyes of the white voters he needs, and then he’ll run for political office somewhere, maybe not nationally or even state wide, but he’ll have the good will of the same folks who felt a Blackface indiscretion as a youth was no big deal.

    Justin Fairfax if/when he resigns will not hold any office and the accusations against him will go no further once he resigns.

  183. 183
    ProfDamatu says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I assume Delegate is the Virginia version of the Virginia House of Representatives.

    Yup, correct!

  184. 184
    Skepticat says:

    @Mary G: What Mary said.

  185. 185
    ruemara says:

    @J R in WV: You do know reporting is actually quite low, right?

  186. 186
    eemom says:

    @Yutsano:

    uh, what has he done to merit banning under Cole’s standard of outright racism, misogyny, LGBT bashing, and doxxing, IIRC?

  187. 187
    smintheus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: No, but you do sound like quite the piece of work.

    I did observe plenty of frat boys when I was an undergrad, and as a prof I’ve had to deal with all too many frat boys. Back in the late ’70s at Brown it was openly discussed among my friends. Women students warned other women not to attend any parties at frats because of the danger of rape, and at the absolute minimum they advised the precaution of going to frat parties only in large groups (and never allowing a friend to be taken out of sight from the rest of them).

    I also had to deal directly with the frat boys because I refereed intramural hockey games. They were super violent, every last one of them, and had little skill and less interest in playing actual hockey. They were so vicious that at one stage a couple of frats got together and hatched a plan to attack me from all sides in the midst of their upcoming game (my sin was that I sometimes called penalties or stopped the play for offsides, which they detested with a passion). I was warned about their plans in advance, so they called off their planned attack and semi-apologized in the hope that I wouldn’t report them to the administration.

    The frats at my university were utter scum, and no I had no desire whatever to associate with them.

  188. 188
    smintheus says:

    @zhena gogolia: The other blackface guy was.

  189. 189
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @smintheus: I think you’re making some broad assumptions here.

    They live among the rapey types and accept it

    You know this how? As someone who’s probably caused more bruises asserting the right of consent than you have, I’m not about to make such a claim.

  190. 190
    eemom says:

    Also, y’all, the VA Senate majority leader with the outright racist yearbook is NOT next in line after the gov, lt. gov., and AG — the House leader is, and so far there’s no scandal on him except that he’s a republican.

    h/t old college friend who knows his shit about VA politics

  191. 191
    Baud says:

    @eemom:

    I thought the Dems controlled the Virginia House.

  192. 192
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: We are all so wound up, and understandably so, about the outrages that are in our collective face – not just day in and day out, but seemingly hour by hour. It takes a lot of work for that not to splash over into how we see other people and things in our daily lives.

    Everything in the news is teaching us that we can’t take things at face value and we can’t trust what people say because it may all be lies. It’s hard to experience that and not bring it to our interactions with people in our day to day lives. I see a lot more taking offense of BJ lately too, as we all struggle with the same thing.

  193. 193
    ruemara says:

    @lamh36: I think we need to wait until there’s a clear investigation of Fairfax, but I’m just so done by this. I do think at some point Northam has to resign. He’s going to be an anvil around the necks of the party. The arrogance he’s showing is astounding but the way that will crush his future plans will eventually get through to him.

  194. 194
    smintheus says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: See my comment just above. Rape at many fraternities is a group project. Even those who don’t take part know that it is likely to be going on in the background.

    With frat boys accused of offenses – any offense, it doesn’t matter which – the go-to defense is always to claim ignorance regarding just about everything that one was doing or that was going on around one. Absurdly transparent lies are the norm. My experience dealing with them over decades.

  195. 195
    eemom says:

    @Baud:

    Nope, it’s 51-48 in favor of the fuckers. Elections this November tho.

  196. 196
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Baud: No, it’s the R’s. That’s the one that was decided by a coin flip or something when one of the races was tied.

  197. 197
    WaterGirl says:

    @zhena gogolia: I can completely see how Baud took the original comment that way.

    With all the crap we are living through, it’s easy to give people what I call “the negative benefit of the doubt”. I mean, how do you learn not to trust the news, and not to trust what a lot of our country’s leaders say, and to not even trust that some asshole on the blog isn’t a Russian troll — and still trust the people we interact with day to day?

    It’s like we have to learn it, but not learn it too well.

  198. 198
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:

    Having attended fraternity parties at: WVU, University of Kentucky, Stanford, and UC Santa Cruz, in the 80s/90s, I’d say the poster is spot on. Rape culture is a thing and even well-intentioned guys were pretty oblivious.

    From what understand by interrogating the yutes of today, things are better today, but the people in or entering leadership positions now came up in that era.

  199. 199
    Baud says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I thought that was the Senate.

  200. 200
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @MomSense:
    Candace Owens?

  201. 201
    ProfDamatu says:

    @lamh36:

    Again, my money is no Faifax pushed out, Northam and Herring stays. Northam will likely appoint a Black Lt. Gove, maybe even a Black woman or a white woman. But Northam won’t leave and my money is on him appointing someone Black as a token to Black voters, but not one with any political clout or ambition…just a place holder so that he can finish out his term.

    This wouldn’t surprise me. I think the only certainty is lawyers, lots of lawyers, because nobody seems quite sure what the rules are for replacing the Lt. Governor. From what I can tell, the governor gets to appoint a replacement, but that person doesn’t get to serve out the rest of the term, only until the next election, which of course would be in November. (Of course, some sources say that the appointee does get to serve the remainder of the term; I even ran across a claim that the legislature would have to confirm the appointment, which of course would never happen. I sure hope that’s not true, because if it is…well, in that case the pro tem of the Senate gets to “discharge the duties of the office,” while still retaining his Senate seat! Meaning that he’d get to both vote for his district AND break ties as Lt. Gov.)

    What sucks, and what needs to be fixed if we ever get control of the legislature, is the fact that a vacancy in the AG’s office is filled by vote in the House of Delegates…and that person gets to serve the remainder of the vacated term. Which in this case is until 2023, I believe. Yuck.

  202. 202
    jl says:

    OT, but looks like Saudi Arabia vying for Russia in telling Trump, and the US, what to do. So many complications when the pres has so many bosses to keep track of.

    Interesting that Israel is in a more dangerous national security situation than the US is, which I think is a brute reality regardless of what I think of their current leadership. But they manage to do OK while putting criminal ex leadership in the slammer, and vigorously investigate current leadership. Israel maybe one of Trump’s bosses, so prolly OK to learn from them. Even Trump couldn’t object.

  203. 203
    Baud says:

    @ProfDamatu: Oh, that does complicate things.

  204. 204
    lamh36 says:

    @ruemara: I’m too cynical to believe there will be any actual investigation of the allegations against Fairfax. I’m betting he’ll be forced to resign with no due process of any kind.

    It’s a much harder thing to defend, rightly so than Blackface, especially since apparently so many white folk in VA and elsewhere were comfortable with Blackface when they were younger?

  205. 205
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @smintheus: @smintheus: Again, I think you’re making a giant generalization. But, what would I know, being a woman who was not assaulted by any frat boys?

    This argument is pointless; we are never going to agree about generalizations. I’m going to have a cocktail instead.

  206. 206
    ProfDamatu says:

    @Baud: The senate is also very close – something like 21-19? – but is indeed also held by Republicans.

    And, that House seat that was tied and ended up going to the R? I think it was drawing his name out of a hat, that ultimately kept the House in R hands. Your democracy in action, Virginians.

  207. 207
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Maybe Omarosa?

  208. 208
    lamh36 says:

    @ruemara: The redempton train continues…he’s not going anywhere

    https://twitter.com/GovernorVA/status/1093964856263393280

  209. 209
    Gvg says:

    @MJS: he can’t just make up a law. I doubt that is the law. Every state makes their own succession laws. I think a replacement lt. Gov. has to be approved by the VA ledgislature which by one vote is republican. A really suspicious elected by coin toss republican majority ledg.
    I think we are stuck with keeping at least one of the blackface guys. He needs to prove he’s worth it now. It’s unfair.

  210. 210
    LAC says:

    @ruemara: i am so happy to see your post. Had to come out lurk mode to say that. I completely agree.

  211. 211
    Brachiator says:

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    “Believe women” still looking like, generally, a good rule of thumb.

    I don’t believe anyone, not automatically.

    But I do say that we should take women seriously, and investigate claims made.

    What a mess.

    So, can we dump Northam and this guy, if necessary, but keep the third guy since, so far, his offenses are minor?

  212. 212
    LAC says:

    @lamh36: very comfortable, it seems.

  213. 213
    jl says:

    @lamh36: There needs to be some kind of process for elected officials for these situations, since the voters put them there, and whether specific people stay or go can have grave consequences for the voters. VA seems to have a messy situation, and a messy system, which is liable to gaming by GOP (which may partly, though apparently not completely, the case here).

    Both for potential criminal offenses, and non criminal harassment, and things like racist blackface hijinks.

    I have no idea what the process should be. Maybe Dem party would be one to set it up, though it couldn’t enforce anything, so maybe not the best idea. Calling for resignations during, and in the immediate wake of, breaking news is not a good process.

  214. 214
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @B.B.A.:

    Please don’t misrepresent my views. I’m a white man and I believe that I and all people who share my gender and complexion should be denied the right to vote simply because we’re white men. And I think the results of the last few elections bear me out on this.

    You are … fascinating.

    Have you thought of emptying your bank accounts and forwarding the profits of your white privilege to deserving others?

    I would really like to help you come up with a way to ameliorate your guilt. Just not healthy carrying that around all the time.

  215. 215
    jl says:

    @Gvg: Seems Northam is going to try to stick it out. He can prevent certain things by sheer stubbornness. I think Herring has a much better case on the merits.

  216. 216
    ProfDamatu says:

    @Gvg:

    I think a replacement Lt. Gov. has to be approved by the VA ledgislature which by one vote is republican.

    At least in the VA constitution, this is not the case. All it says is that the Governor’s powers include appointing someone to fill a vacancy in the Lt. Gov. office; nothing about the legislature having to approve it. There may be a law that says that, but not the constitution itself. (I read comments from one of the folks who helped draft the current constitution, and they didn’t mention any requirement for legislative approval.)

    In any event, it looks like it wouldn’t matter tremendously, because the vacancy would be filled by a special election this November anyway.

  217. 217
    jl says:

    @Brachiator: People, men women and children, who make what are face value good faith claims need to be protected until enough evidence comes in to discredit their good faith. I think that is the best rule.

  218. 218
    Martin says:

    @lamh36: I don’t think the blackface is the relevant variable here. I think it’s just that white men are allowed to fuck up however we want and never have to take responsibility. See Trump and Kavanaugh for examples of non-racist behavior that is routinely excused. And it doesn’t need to be historical either. See Brock Turner who was too precious to hold accountable, or creepy AF Raymond Soden who was hoodwinked by a 13 year old girl into soliciting nudes.

  219. 219
    Martin says:

    @Brachiator:

    So, can we dump Northam and this guy, if necessary, but keep the third guy since, so far, his offenses are minor?

    I don’t consider his offenses minor, but I give him some credit for copping to them without provocation. Northam is obviously not willing to use his fuckup for some greater good (which could have redeemed him) but I have more faith that Herring could. He at least hasn’t disqualified himself on that count.

  220. 220
    smintheus says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Generalizations, yes, based on decades of experience. The closer the experience, the more horrified I have been by the behavior of frat boys. For example, I’ve done multiple study abroad courses. There usually are troublemakers on such trips, and those are nearly always frat boys. On last winter’s trip, out of 9 frat members, 8 of them behaved atrociously and 6 of those violated virtually every rule or norm of behavior that they could; they were deliberately trying to sow chaos by working as a unified group. They also cheated on the required work, and lied to cover for each other. Two-thirds of the frat boys on the trip behaved like f*cking monsters before, during, and after the trip. When I described that bad behavior to other faculty, their first question was always “Are they in fraternities?”

  221. 221
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Baud: You may be right. I don’t really follow state-level stuff there.

  222. 222
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:

    I’m going to have a cocktail instead.

    That sounds like a very good idea, frankly.

  223. 223
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Martin: And Soden had **two** prior convictions. WTF?

  224. 224
    lamh36 says:

    @LAC:

    @ReaganGomez
    Is the plan now to just bombard us with blackface that it becomes no big deal? “Hey, everybody was doing it!”
    https://twitter.com/ReaganGomez/status/1094021027598749697

    I mean now apparently there’s some Lt Gov in Mississippi

  225. 225
    lamh36 says:

    Back to Fairfax…if he refuses to resign and instead decided to stay and fight…he’s doing exactly what some folks wanted Al Franken to do.

    If one felt Franken should have stayed to fight or until an investigation happened…then can you say Fairfax staying until an investigation happens is wrong?

    We can’t have it both ways..

  226. 226
    germy says:

    @smintheus: The sad thing is that in ten-twenty years those boys will be in positions of power over the rest of us.

  227. 227
    lamh36 says:

    @Martin: case in point I guess.

    @THR
    4m4 minutes ago
    More
    Les Moonves starts a new company weeks after leaving CBS http://thr.cm/7cSLzM

  228. 228
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:

    I’m going to have a cocktail instead.

    Way ahead of you, sister!

  229. 229
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: One huge difference between the two is the credibility of the accusations.

    edit: If there was an email from a woman who wrote in 2014 that Al Franken had raped her, and she was willing to come forward against Franken that would completely change my take on the Franken situation.

  230. 230
    germy says:

    @lamh36: “Moon Rise Unlimited”

    Sounds like fun.

    Maybe Julie Chen can go work there.

  231. 231
    jl says:

    @lamh36: I don’t know what kind of investigation is possible now. But both accusers and accused are standing by their stories. So, I think bad to have an elected official resign without better understanding of what really happened. Or if it turns into a Cosby or Weinstein situation, where more credible accusers come forward until the weight of probability says he should go.

    But, given opportunity of GOP dirty tricks, every accusation has to be evaluated on its own.

  232. 232
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @lamh36:

    You’re looking for consistent ethical rules here. You are barking up the wrong tree.

    This is all about performative demonstrations of wokeness, primarily among a middle aged white, cisgendered cohort.

    Whatever way the wind blows is where they will make their stand.

  233. 233
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @lamh36: what I’m reading is that people don’t want him to resign without an investigation IF the allegations are not credible.

    He knows whether or not they are, and should decide accordingly.

    Franken resigned not because of pressure from internet commenters, but because he felt that an investigation would reveal problematic information about him that would hurt the democratic caucus and cause.

    Fairfax needs to make the same calculation.

  234. 234
    lamh36 says:

    @WaterGirl: there are some that found the accuser of Franken very credible though and there was that stupid photographic.

    The point being Franken didn’t fight or wait for an investigation…for the good of the party, and folks were mad an still are mad about that.

    Point being, as with most due process both Franken and Fairfax deserve/d to be able to some investigation…

  235. 235
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36: He has no shame. Which makes me wonder if he thinks he has even done anything wrong, perhaps he thinks all those bitches were out to get him. Ugh.

  236. 236
    germy says:

    This has been making the rounds:

    ‘We have a system that is fundamentally broken.’ — Rep. @AOC is explaining just how f*cked campaign finance laws really are pic.twitter.com/sCwpkRzcHB— NowThis (@nowthisnews) February 8, 2019

    Maybe it’ll get a thread of its own.

  237. 237
    Sebastian says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    Wtf?

    Maybe we just want to listen and learn instead of sucking up all the air and making it all about you and your opinion. JFC

  238. 238
    Brickley Paiste says:

    And then there is this, starting at 1:40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9BqrSAHbTc&app=desktop

  239. 239
    Brachiator says:

    @jl:

    People, men women and children, who make what are face value good faith claims need to be protected until enough evidence comes in to discredit their good faith. I think that is the best rule.

    I would say that you evaluate and investigate the claim. I note that the claim has been made, but I do not make any assumptions about the truth of the claim, not even on “good faith.”

    @Martin:

    So, can we dump Northam and this guy, if necessary, but keep the third guy since, so far, his offenses are minor?

    I don’t consider his offenses minor

    I thought I read that the third guy dressed up like a rapper he admired. If this is the case, I don’t put this in the same category as the Northam photo. Also, Northam’s problem is compounded by the garbled ridiculousness of his attempt to explain whatever it is he did or did not do.

  240. 240
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @lamh36: What an absolute mess. One of the Democrats in the Virginia House of Delegates is already drawing up articles of impeachment against Fairfax, so he may not get the time for an investigation. But I have to say both women accusing Fairfax seem very, very credible to me. And the second accuser explicitly told a classmate who was trying to raise funds for Fairfax for the Lt Governor run that he had raped her in college, so her name should be taken off the fundraising list. She told several people at the time it happened and nothing got done then, so here we are now.

  241. 241
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Sebastian:

    Good intentions are a mitigating factor, but the amount of patronizing condescension and head-patting among “allies” is something to behold.

  242. 242
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Steve in the ATL: well, some people are saying this. Others are saying that anyone who’s accused of anything should resign immediately regardless of the circumstances.

  243. 243
    Elizabelle says:

    People: Actual Virginians, the majority of them, are not for pushing Governor Northam out of office. Or Attorney General Herring. That is a liberals with hair on fire and jackals who don’t know Virginia special, exacerbated by social media.**

    I am ashamed for you guys for not being able to see that there is a lot more to Ralph Northam than the blackface photographs. He has been a staunch advocate and a seriously good Democrat. Look at what he has done. He is a solid guy.

    WRT Fairfax, I was wondering if there might be another allegation out there. Vanessa Taylor (the first) struck me as credible from the outset.

    It has been very interesting to see people ready to crucify white guys over photographs from decades ago, and saying stuff like “what, didn’t she have teeth?” WRT the first JFairfax accuser. Real double standard in play there.

    Look at people and the whole of their career. There are no perfect people out there. That is really all I can say.

    And I realize it is falling on deaf ears here.

    ** I am serious. Look at the WaPost articles; sort the reader comments by “most liked” and you will see a lot of people saying this kind of stupidity was limited and does not deserve the destruction of a career.

    Might not be the prevailing attitude here, but it is very obvious with the WaPost and NY Times comments. By a huge ratio.

  244. 244
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy: I have to admit that I was impressed when I saw that earlier.

    Though I have to admit that I am surprised by the number of people in positions of power who do not use proper grammar or understand subject-verb tense, for instance. I noticed that with AOC this morning. Glad she is in office, though, so it matters less than a lot of other things might.

  245. 245
    Ksmiami says:

    @B.B.A.: a one time stupid dress-up is a goddamn dumb reason to hand power off to the people who will make things worse for more minorities today- sorry this is not a goddamn hypothetical

  246. 246
    Yarrow says:

    @lamh36: Sounds like a place Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, and Harvey Weinstein can find a home.

  247. 247
    Elizabelle says:

    @lamh36: Bullshit, lamh36. These are credible forced sex allegations. They are not wet tongue kissing and “he held me funny in a photograph.”

  248. 248
    Kent says:

    @lamh36: what exactly was Franken accused of? I don’t remember it being two instances of rape. Not every case is like the other.

  249. 249
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Maybe she spent more time being a science geek than on grammar?

    Ocasio-Cortez attended Yorktown High School, graduating in 2007.[19] She won second prize in the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair with a microbiology research project on the effect of antioxidants on the lifespan of the nematode C. elegans.[20] In a show of appreciation for her efforts, the International Astronomical Union named a small asteroid after her: 23238 Ocasio-Cortez.[21][22]

  250. 250
    Gex says:

    @VeniceRiley: And rape is a small portion of the acts that men do that violate boundaries. There are the gropers (Al) the physically abusive ones (Ellison). And that’s before you just get to the discriminatory and demeaning areas of sexism that would be more inline with callously wearing blackface, which is hostile and threatening.

  251. 251
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Yarrow: No room at the inn for Kevin Spacey?

  252. 252
    Yarrow says:

    @Elizabelle: How are comments in the NYT and Washington Post indicative of anything? Comments can be made by anyone from anywhere and likes are easy to game.

  253. 253
    Brickley Paiste says:

    Quality of the posts going up here as more Best Coast people check in!

  254. 254
    germy says:

    @Yarrow:

    Sounds like a place Matt Lauer, Charlie Rose, and Harvey Weinstein can find a home.

    Bryan Singer, etc. It’s a long list.

  255. 255
    jl says:

    @Brachiator: I think we mostly agree. I was probably imprecise in one respect. I think as news breaks, unless some huge and obvious red flag is there, the assumption of good faith should be granted to accusers. But the initial assumption of good faith should not be grounds for immediately finding the accused guilty of the charge.

    I think it is an important issue, because good faith accusers need to be protected while claim is investigated. So, in wake of a charge, important to grant assumption of good faith until strong evidence indicates otherwise. Else, the accuser doesn’t get sufficient protection that is needed for victims to come forward.

  256. 256
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Wait you’re saying that the people who have spent their lives with someone might have a more accurately calibrated measure of their moral fitness than people who have seen a photograph in a yearbook and 30 seconds of video clips?

    Imagine that !

  257. 257
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    Are you really that much of a fucking idiot? Well, I guess you are since you apparently think that anyone who doesn’t agree with you “Lets burn it all down” theory of governance just must be a Russian operative.

    Not on board with the prevailing current that sez anyone one disagrees with is, perforce, a troll. Perhaps I’m wrong (am wrong a lot), but I take you at your (often pissy) word about your stated beliefs.

    Also not on board with the prevailing current that sez anyone one disagrees with must be pied. Me, I like pie. Seems like a waste of good pie. But that’s a personal choice on my part (hiding what’s disagreeable does not make it cease to exist).

    My objection to many of your posts is you seem to not possess the forbearance or good judgment to refrain from punching down in the most bullying fashion when you disagree with someone. This is the brown-eyed mark of an asshole.

    You ain’t gotta take to heart what I (or anyone) thinks, go and God be with you or not just as you please. But if you in fact wish to persuade others to your way of thinking, you might reflect upon the futility of ruthlessly insulting those you purport to agree with strategically but disagree with tactically.

    fwiw

  258. 258
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    I hate this timeline.

  259. 259
    Elizabelle says:

    @Brachiator:

    Also, Northam’s problem is compounded by the garbled ridiculousness of his attempt to explain whatever it is he did or did not do.

    Northam is hardly a silver-tongued devil. He never has been. It drives me nuts that you and Mnemosyne want to bounce him on the weakness of his very poor handling of the blackface photo’s disclosure; it’s a performance review. He is very good on the issues, has taken on some hard ones and been consistent. I hope he will stick it out.

    And yes, I abhor blackface. But a lot of time has passed, and these folks are not racists in their political careers. Hardly. If you want racists in their political careers but possibly not in blackface, look at our Republican legislators. Who opposed Medicaid expansion at every turn. Who overturned Democratic legislation that imposed a one gun a month purchase.

    I think we still hold the record for the most dead in a campus massacre — Virginia Tech, while Tim Kaine was governor — but I really cannot keep up.

    You guys, you have no idea how hard a lot of us worked to get these guys and all our Democratic candidates into office. And I stand by them, although I am concerned about Fairfax. (Incidentally, that is not a side of him that I have ever heard even whispered about. But, same with the blackface.)

    I am glad this is entertaining for you. It is horrifying to me, and on levels way beyond blackface.

    I don’t think I would be screaming about your state like this, from the comfort from California, or wherever a lot of you are. Because you guys do not know Northam and Herring’s backgrounds like Virginians do. (I know less about Fairfax, because he is relatively recent. But he is greatly liked and admired in NoVA; do know that.)

  260. 260
    Gex says:

    @Humdog: The men who didn’t assault you didn’t necessarily assault no one. The men who do these things don’t do it to EVERY women they encounter.

  261. 261
    Elizabelle says:

    @Brickley Paiste: Yes.

    You get this in a manner that a lot of jackals here do not, troll that you are accused of being.

    This whole thing is making me really sick of Balloon Juice. Really sick.

    This is serious stuff. This is the governor that will oversee redistricting. You want us to hand it to the Republicans? Really?

    Grow the fuck up. Blackface, as backward and painful as it is, is a lot less awful than insufficient medical care and lack of all of the good things Democrats promote and enact, and that Republicans oppose and obstruct at every single fucking turn.

  262. 262
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Brick Paste:
    No, this is not all about the poitical game. It is about whether people of colour and women feel equally protected where racism and sexual abuse are all too easily forgiven/condoned/excused. It’s also about doing the right thing. Not just for the men accused, but also for society at large.

  263. 263
    smintheus says:

    @germy: If they aren’t already.

  264. 264
    zhena gogolia says:

    @lamh36:

    I for one thought it was right for Franken to step down when he did.

  265. 265
    banditqueen says:

    Elizabelle:
    Upthread I posted excerpts from an oped by the Rev William J. Barber. Rev Barber recognizes how fraught the political crisis in VA has become, but proposes a pathway focused on justice and mercy, a way to slowly address the immediate political crisis and equally important, the need for VA, to address its racist past & present. The time has come for white Americans, white Virginians, Northam, personally and nationally, to seek forgiveness and redemption. VA may serve as the template for how to do this.

  266. 266

    @debbie: @Barbara: I am glad that you guys agree.
    @Elizabelle: I haven’t spent a lot of time here, since last week for the same reason.

  267. 267
    Elizabelle says:

    @banditqueen: I will take a look. I haven’t read any of this thread; just got in.

    ETA: I respect and admire Rev. Barber. From when this first hit, I kept thinking Please, dog, let there be no pictures or anything of Dem Gov Roy Cooper, of NC, cuz he really is all there is in North Carolina, and their legislature is whack.

  268. 268
    jl says:

    @banditqueen: Thanks. Barber op ed is great. Just read it.

  269. 269
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Elizabelle:
    Not, of course, that I disagree with you.

  270. 270
    lamh36 says:

    @Elizabelle: @Kent: Look…all I saying it Fairfax so far claims he plans to fight and not resign.

    I think it’s a mistake. He should resign

    But like I said, I believe in investigations not just taking every accusation as fact. If we decide that every accusation is fact then there is never any need for any investigation no matter how heinous, then fine, let’s do that.

    But that is also a slippery slope that I think would be a bad one to be on

  271. 271
    Elizabelle says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Amir, Governor Northam and AG Herring are people who have worked very hard on issues that matter to all Virginians, sometimes especially people of color.

    Yes, we all need to come to terms with photos and behavior like that, but please do not assume that they are not very supportive of a lot of concerns. They are seriously good there. Which is why I have their backs.

    The Republicans: no.

    This is not as easy or uncomplicated a picture as a lot of people think. Because a lot of people are for immediate capital punishment.

    And, to me, that is even more unjust.

  272. 272
    lamh36 says:

    @Elizabelle: and yet I also know people from Va who are voters as well who want Northam gone as well as Fairfax and they are not commenters on NYT or WashPo, or even here at BJ

  273. 273
    Gex says:

    @eemom: Seriously. I had one person chase me from thread to thread after my partner died to torment me when I came here for support and that didn’t get the banhammer.

    Being mean is not the metric used to ban someone around these parts.

  274. 274
  275. 275
    germy says:

    Gillibrand has taken a different approach to Virginia Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax's sexual misconduct scandal than she did with Al Franken in 2017 or even Ralph Northam's blackface scandal.https://t.co/vLEdZlsYF0— New York Daily News (@NYDailyNews) February 8, 2019

  276. 276
    Elizabelle says:

    @lamh36: I was driving back down to Richmond from Northern Virginia when I heard that report late afternoon, and was gobsmacked, very honestly. One of my NoVA friends is one of JF’s honorary aunties.

    I think maybe Justin should take a leave of absence.

    Although, a lot rides on who ends up being appointed lt. governor, and he might not have the luxury of time there.

    I would give him the leave of absence, though, if I ran the world. Because I am not pushing for Northam or Herring resignations; we still have two of our 3 executives.

    And they may be wounded, but they are good public servants.

  277. 277
    CliosFanBoy says:

    I was in a fraternity as an undergrad, Sigma Chi. But it was a small campus and our chapter was the “theater house.” (i.e., the ones the theater majors joined). I knew a couple of the other frats had bad reps, but that’s it. When I went to a larger state school for my doctorate I wondered why my fellow grad students were shocked that I was in a frat. Then I saw what the Greeks were like on a big campus. At that point I understood. After one visit I had nothing to do even with the chapter of my own fraternity (later they were kicked off campus for using the money they raised for charity on a kegger).

    The campus where I teach doesn’t have any Greeks. I don’t think that’s a loss. If schools everywhere really cracked down on the frats, made them live in the dorms, etc., I wouldn’t object. I had a good experience, but I realized how different most campus environments were.

    FWIW, about 1/4th of the guys in my chapter, including two of my roommates later came out as gay. Told you it was the theater house. (Woody Harrelson was a member at the same time there)

  278. 278

    @banditqueen: Democrats are immoral, godless people who live in sin and like it. Republicans sin, but then get forgiven by their god, so it’s all good.

  279. 279
    Elizabelle says:

    @lamh36: You are vehement about it and don’t seem to be able to see any other outcome. And perhaps you do not have as wide a circle.

    We will have to agree to disagree there.

    I have got to say, lamh, that if you were urging caution over Louisiana politics, I would not assume that you were some clueless asshole.

  280. 280
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @Elizabelle: AMEN!

  281. 281
    Elizabelle says:

    @lamh36: You know what I am seeing, among those people I know and hear from who were for immediate resignations: a lot of pullback. Not among everyone. Some just want to see it all burn.

    I regret to say that I know a lot of people who were anti-Nancy Pelosi but have shut their yaps about that these past few weeks.

  282. 282
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    Your words have been taken to heart but I would ask you to reflect on the possibility that refer to me punching down carries with it your implicit judgment that I am, in fact, better than they are? And that the absolute thing a person must do is tell the truth? I know Sully is out of fashion in these parts (but he’s the real reason this blog exists) but on his masthead it said something about “The constant struggle to see what is before your eyes.” Which – and my doctorate is not in this field – to me means that you have to be as accurate as possible. To make your words hue a mark of truth. And that the purest manifestation of that is distilled by the pressing weight of a billion tons of sunlight into the essence of this: Sometimes you gotta call a retard a retard.

  283. 283
    WaterGirl says:

    @Elizabelle:

    I am glad this is entertaining for you.

    There are strong differences in what people on BJ think should happen from here, but I don’t there’s anyone here that finds this entertaining.

    Except, perhaps, a very small number of people who want to talk about hypotheticals, as if this were a parlor game, and even that might be too harsh a description of where those people are coming from. Possible exceptions: people I have pied, because you never know what they are saying.

  284. 284
    lamh36 says:

    @Elizabelle:

    You are vehement about it and don’t seem to be able to see any other outcome. And perhaps you do not have as wide a circle.

    No offense, but you don’t know the extend of my circle.

    We can agree to disagree you can keep your passive aggressie condescension before it.

  285. 285
    Elizabelle says:

    @Yarrow: Not in those numbers.

  286. 286
    banditqueen says:

    @RedDirtGirl: As long as the Dems with political power work to protect a woman’s right to choose, workers’ rights, voter rights, healthcare, the environment, education, on & on. We already know that whatever the Dems are for, the republicans are against–the repubs cannot be an interim option in VA or anywhere else in the US. Also, as Rev Barber makes clear, this is the time to address on a national level, the original sin of slavery.

  287. 287
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @Brickley Paiste: Sometimes you gotta call a retard a retard.

    Seriously?

  288. 288
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy: I wonder if she is taking a different tack this time because what she did with Franken got her in dutch with a lot of people, including me.

    If that is the case, then it’s a foolish move – because it makes her look even worse than she did before. It just provides another data point for people who felt she did what she did with Franken for personal gain.

  289. 289
    eemom says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Wow. I have been totally on board with what you’ve said about this mess until now.

    After all this bending over backwards to convince us all what a great guy Northam is, we’re all supposed to agree to throw Fairfax under the bus with NO investigation because YOU find his accusers credible?

    And Franken should absolutely NOT have been forced out.

    This is all getting into some serious witch hunt shit, folks.

    Facts matter. PROOF matters.

  290. 290
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    Sometimes you gotta call a retard a retard.

    Lemme give you an example:

    1: “You’re wrong and you’re an idiot cuz [insert rationale here].”

    vs.

    2: “I disagree and here’s why.”

    See the difference?

    Look, you do you. All’s I’ma trying to say is insulting fellow travelers with whom you disagree is a masturbatory way to relieve yer bile, but it ain’t gonna accomplish anything but ratchet up an already simmering fractiousness.

  291. 291
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @CliosFanBoy: I have him pied. Was he referring to himself there?

  292. 292
    Elizabelle says:

    @eemom: Wait. Where did I say throw Fairfax under the bus?

    Show your work, please.

  293. 293
    lamh36 says:

    @Elizabelle: I’m sorry, but when did I call you a clueless asshole?

    I happen to have a number of family members, and friend who live in the VA area, and not just folks I know from BJ.

    Many of them are active voters and actively dialed into VA and it’s politicals, esp in the Black community. All I said to you was there are also people in VA who want Northam out as well as Fairfax.

    In fact forget about the folks I know, but didn’t the Black caucus in VA even said Northam should resign?

    If the idea is that we shouls stick to talking only about the state in which we currently live, then fine, we’ll stick to that. But last I looked here at BJ folks talk about the politics in other states as much as their own.

    But ok, then I’ll stick to Louisiana politics then

  294. 294
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:
    I’m getting there.

    I’ve always taken that politesse as being evidence of weak convictions. YMMV.

  295. 295
    Elizabelle says:

    @lamh36: I am not a hanging judge, lamh. You have been, on this issue. It has pained me, although you are welcome to your opinion.

    Something else WRT Northam and Herring: I think women provided their margin of victory. Women of all colors. Do we have another case of women’s votes not counting here?

  296. 296
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Elizabelle:

    He been throwed. He been throwed. That’s how it be.

    Don’t need no equation. Don’t need no theorem.

    Ska predates reggae.

  297. 297
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Elizabelle:

    That’s certainly the attempt, but you can see that parachutes sprout all over the horizon in the fading sunlight by silky white chutes letting you know that the planes carrying all of that payload were shot down many many clicks away from ever reaching their target on bullshit mountain.

  298. 298
    eemom says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Here’s my work. You said:

    I am ashamed for you guys for not being able to see that there is a lot more to Ralph Northam than the blackface photographs. He has been a staunch advocate and a seriously good Democrat. Look at what he has done. He is a solid guy.

    WRT Fairfax, I was wondering if there might be another allegation out there. Vanessa Taylor (the first) struck me as credible from the outset.

    It has been very interesting to see people ready to crucify white guys over photographs from decades ago, and saying stuff like “what, didn’t she have teeth?” WRT the first JFairfax accuser. Real double standard in play there.

    The white guy gets the benefit of the doubt, the Black guy doesn’t. The white guys are getting “crucified”, while the defenders of the Black guy are applying a “double standard”.

    Again, wow.

    fwiw: I read and thought long and hard about Dr. Tyson’s statement, and Fairfax’s response — which btw, NOBODY appears to have read or considered — and I do not find her credible. As I said, I agree that this second woman appears more credible, but I don’t think Fairfax should go ANYWHERE until there’s an investigation, or unless he cops to something.

    You know, kind of like that white guy, whose accuser was credible out the wazoo, got to stay put, until he got voted onto the Supreme Court.

  299. 299
    WaterGirl says:

    @lamh36:

    But ok, then I’ll stick to Louisiana politics then.

    Nobody wants that, lamh36.

    This is such an awful situation. It’s awful in and of itself because of the things the top three are accused of, or have done. And because it shines a light on how how much ugliness there still is. Rev. Barber did a spectacular job of outlining the big picture, so I will leave it at that.

    But everyone that’s worth reading on BJ wants a fair and just world where the bigots and racists don’t win.

    The other thing that makes this so painful is that, well, I am not sure the devil himself could have come up with a better collective set of events to turn us all against each other, and where it seems like all of the options for outcomes end up with us on the wrong side of our efforts to have the bigots and racists not win. It’s like the devil’s hat trick, or the devil’s perfect storm.

  300. 300
    Brickley Paiste says:

    Behold, on the horizon through the collapsing chutes you see another thread has been posted. Chip, Chip Away Lads, the game’s afoot.

  301. 301
    banditqueen says:

    @Elizabelle: Remember, Northam has a lot of work to do. The blackface, however long ago it was, was wrong, racist, and must be addressed. I will again quote Rev Barber:

    If white people in political leadership are truly repentant, they will listen to black and other marginalized people in our society. They will confess that they have sinned and demonstrate their willingness to listen and learn by following and supporting the leadership of others. To confess past mistakes while continuing to insist that you are still best suited to lead because of your experience is itself a subtle form of white supremacy.

    I think Northam is working towards redemption, but he’s not there yet.

  302. 302
    Elizabelle says:

    @banditqueen: Yeah, I saw that quote, and it’s very good. Still have to read the rest of the article and the thread.

    I hope Rev. Barber survives for decades, because he is so needed. Know he has some health issues, and he is an irreplaceable man.

  303. 303
    opiejeanne says:

    @A Ghost To Most: I pie very few here, and some of them I respond to once in a while. The pie filter reminds me not to engage with trolls when they are trolling.
    Why and who I pie, why should you know who anyone else doesn’t want to talk to? I’m not being snarky, I am curious.

  304. 304
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    I’m getting there.

    I’ve always taken that politesse as being evidence of weak convictions. YMMV.

    Ain’t about politesse (that’s but self-justifying salve, I think, used to condone the rhetorical ad hominems when punching down; e.g. “You need to hear this hard truth that you’re too stupid to appreciate much less understand, you idiot!”). It’s about treating fellow travelers with respect, even, or perhaps especially, when you disagree. The irony being, ad hominems used against fellow travelers *weaken* not strengthen you’re rhetorical standing. It’s lazy and often unfair.

    People disagree. Even when they share similar objectives. That’s why we have politics, so we don’t kill each other over our differences. Choices are often hard and outcomes are often less than optimal.

    Disagreeing with someone who shares your overarching goals but disagrees on how to get there is a problem, I will freely concede. But it is a dilemma of persuasion, and the hard reality is, even tho you might be convinced you’re right, you might lose that argument anyway. Life ain’t fair. (And you may, in fact, be wrong. Astonishing to contemplate, I know!)

    But here’s what I believe: Being vicious and imperious and arrogant and unkind seems like a highly sub-optimal solution to persuading fellow travelers that you deserve a fair hearing.

  305. 305
    opiejeanne says:

    @The Thin Black Duke: Thank you. I know I’m flawed, I know my whiteness slows any progress I make as a human trying to deal with my own racism, but I do try to work on it. I understood that there were things I didn’t know and maybe couldn’t know when some black friends told me to shut up and listen to them, to just listen to them*, and I’ve been trying to listen to them and others when things become fraught, especially like this.

    *good advice for all of us at different times, to just listen to what other people are telling us from their own experience.

  306. 306
    Brachiator says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Northam is hardly a silver-tongued devil. He never has been. It drives me nuts that you and Mnemosyne want to bounce him on the weakness of his very poor handling of the blackface photo’s disclosure; it’s a performance review.

    You make a lot of false assumptions, but this is a hot topic. And you might be misled because I didn’t recapitulate my thoughts from earlier threads.

    We agree more than disagree. Originally I said that Northam should not automatically resign. But I deferred to the judgment of the VA black legislative caucus, who had problems with the governor’s explanation. Ultimately, the people and their representatives have to decide whether they think the governor has been wounded too deeply.

    I also said that Democrats must not fall into the trap laid out by right wingers and react immediately, especially when it looks like they may have more bombs to drop.

    Also, I don’t care at all that the governor may have made himself to look like Michael Jackson or that the third official made himself look like a rapper. Total non issue. The yearbook photo is more troubling, and again, those who directly questioned him have problems with his response. That’s a problem.

    The accusations against the second politician are very serious, and again I say that they should be investigated, not that there should be any quick judgment.

    But if I had to make a cold political calculation because voters demanded blood, I might concentrate on saving the third guy over the other two. But again, the main thing is that I don’t think that anyone here should automatically resign.

  307. 307

    As I have written before, “If we press all the people who acknowledge fault, who show signs of having a conscience, out of our faction we will be left with only the conscienceless, the straight-and-narrow prigs, and those who refuse to admit error.”

    I am not sure how that applies in this case. Not to Fairfax, if the claims of rape hold up, and they do seem credible. Perhaps to Northam and Herring.

    Does anyone here truly believe there are any non-racist Republicans in the Virginia General Assembly? But no-one is calling on them to resign en masse. Perhaps they should.

  308. 308
    J R in WV says:

    @ruemara:

    Yes. The way women have been treated by the police, the lawyers, and the judges, who can blame them for being very reluctant to report a crime many of them will be blamed for.

    She was wearing clothes like hooker; she was in a terrible bar late at night; she was… I had a friend (now passed) who successfully reported her rape. It was not easy, even for a successfully assertive women like her.

  309. 309
    LAC says:

    @Elizabelle: wow, what turn of phrase. And still condescending. Is it okay that i find that yearbook page and northam’s actions about it to be repugnant and unworthy of office, to hope to see more from herring than some apology, to want an investigation of these allegations against Fairfax, with a genuine willingness to say get the fuck out with your rapey ass if it is substantiated? Can i do that? Because lately, it feels like I can’t.

    I do not see anything wrong in Iahm’s comments other than the fact that it exposes some highly problematic cirque Soleil excuse making on this board.
    Now if northam stays and the browbeating of black voters to move on is the strategy
    , then fine for VA. But do not be fucking complaining about depressed voting and indifference by my people in that state. By the way, DMV here. And black. And female.

  310. 310
    B.B.A. says:

    What I’ve learned from the years I’ve posted and lurked here and in similar spaces is that I’m like George Costanza: every instinct I have is wrong. Naturally I’m inclined to presume innocence and forgive past mistakes, but I’ve learned that this doesn’t help the people we’re trying to help – it just lets the fucktards get away with it. And #MeToo and #BLM have shown me that there are a lot more fucktards than I ever thought possible.

    So I reverse my instincts and call for ever more retribution and punishment. Clearly I’m not very good at this, but I’m convinced it’s the right thing to do.

    And, uh, I’m prone to depression, and these last couple of weeks…more like last couple of years…haven’t helped.

    Finally: I am a citizen and resident of the United States. I have only visited Russia once in my life and I have no interest in returning. Thank you.

  311. 311
    Canadian Shield says:

    Fair play, I have not read this entire thread. But my initial reaction to the first ~30 posts or so was: if you’re a Koch Brother, you could pay a couple of people $1million dollars to make a rape claim against a Dem politician to get them to resign. Two accusations and you must resign, how about some evidence and conviction then you have to resign. It’s possible the dirty trick republicans are taking #believeher to the bank. Hopefully Dem politicians are in ‘dont resign unless it’s true’ mode. These accusations could be true and if so it’s horrific but I’m at a point where it takes a lot of work for this level of coincidence.

  312. 312
    Canadian Shield says:

    Since I’m burning myself here; I would also say that school pictures of horrific things don’t mean poop. A friend of mine in the late 80’s wore his scout leader tan uniform and secretly grew a hitler mustace and made the arm-band for a party and we all lost our shit laughing and he was awarded the costume contest. He is not a Nazi, he’s actually a lefty, and maybe in retrospect it was in poor taste. Poor taste is the currency of youthful humour, lets judge people on what they have actually done. Enough with the Left firing squad, the right is going to Weaponise this stuff. If the politician raped anybody, obviously that is jail worthy, but accusations are not evidence. Lets be sure.

  313. 313
    Sloane Ranger says:

    Some thoughts from across the pond. Reading some, but not all, of the comments in this thread it seems to me to be driving a wedge into the Democratic coalition. In this case between women and POC in their opinions on what actions to take in regard to two very different situations. Two white men who have admitted to wearing blackface many years ago and a black man who is the subject of two credible allegations of sexual assault also some time ago with concerns expressed that the black man might be forced to resign while the white men aren’t.
    Opinions on both sides are being expressed so strongly that the Cole the Great was forced to close a thread that was getting out of control.

    I don’t know if the fact all this has come out at the same time is due to Republican rat fuckery or not but I think Democrats need to be careful and thoughtful in how they debate and handle this situation. Otherwise the danger is that, even if Republican hands are clean on this occasion, they will see the benefits of rat fuckery along these same lines in the future.

  314. 314
    Elizabelle says:

    @Sloane Ranger: Yeah. I worry about that too.

  315. 315
    J R in WV says:

    This may seem off topic to some, but I don’t think so. People are often mixed in their lives, doing great good sometimes, while committing wrong other times.

    I have a neighbor who is a highly skilled technologist, and who works as a consultant in environmental legal issues. His court cases are way more often won than lost, partly because of his work. He presents as a gentle person who loves nature and protects water resources and the land and air.

    Yet I also know that he choked his former wife in an argument, years ago, and was imperious and condescending to other women. So he obviously has misogynist leanings he can’t control well.

    How do you separate the good he does working for people suffering from industrial pollution from the evil that is obviously there with regard to women he should have loved and cherished? He’s well to do from his consulting work, yet women quickly learn to avoid him. We avoid him too. Yuck!!

    So Sad. And now the Democratic leadership of VA is caught in a very similar situation, doing very good work, yet also potentially guilty of various other bad acts.

  316. 316
    opiejeanne says:

    i had to laugh. This was the pie statement on a pied commenter here.

    Trolls like pie. But we like trolling, too. It’s not an either/or thing.

  317. 317
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Sloane Ranger:

    it seems to me to be driving a wedge into the Democratic coalition.

    That’s the bitch of it, isn’t it? It doesn’t even matter which side you end up supporting (resign, or tough it out): the very necessity of having to choose one side or the other means that something is the loser, and it doesn’t much matter what as long as chaotic anarchy is the result.

  318. 318
    J R in WV says:

    @opiejeanne:

    Sometimes the pie remarks are way better than the remarks they replace. Amazing, isn’t it?!!

    I worry about Brick Paste sometimes. His comments, sequential and not related to anything, in the wombat thread, seem way detached from reality to me. I give it up that sometimes I do click on the translate link on people I have pied.

    Right now Brickly Paste is the only frequent commenter I have in the pie filter, the rest of my list are all Russo-Trolls long gone from here for now.

  319. 319
    Bill Arnold says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    Look, you do you. All’s I’ma trying to say is insulting fellow travelers with whom you disagree is a masturbatory way to relieve yer bile, but it ain’t gonna accomplish anything but ratchet up an already simmering fractiousness.

    That’s kinda the point. I don’t know if it’s intentional. (Or what’s motivating it if it is.)
    @Brickley Paiste:

    I’ve always taken that politesse as being evidence of weak convictions. YMMV.

    See above. Story time – Eris – note the backstory that appears near the end. (My notes suggest it was published Nov 10, 2016, but not sure.)

  320. 320
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Bill Arnold:
    Derivative.

  321. 321
    opiejeanne says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I thought it was probably me, but it could be an insult delivered to everyone he disagrees with.

  322. 322
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @J R in WV:

    I mean it’s like your walking across the terrace to the belvedere so you can watch the molten marble meet the palmetto dunes while waiting for you rice/beans and fatback get delivered to you by Tom Smitty Number 2 and you realize it’s you they’ve been talking about all along.

  323. 323
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @opiejeanne:

    But you say the only comment I directed to you, right?

    If you assume that your comments would make you the number one choice for being identified as being made by a retard, maybe rethink those comments, eh? Because there’s nothing wrong with being a retard. It just is. And when you use it as a pejorative all you are doing is signalling that your argument is lost.

  324. 324
    opiejeanne says:

    @J R in WV: There was a wombat thread? I missed that. Wow.

    I too sometimes click and read a pied comment, but the pie filter reminds me not to respond.

  325. 325
    Brickley Paiste says:

    Every post is a separate vignette. The fact that you thought it was real is more tied to your reactions to seeing a name instead of reading the post. Because there were multiple posts agreeing with and possibly stating it better than you position.

    So just think about it and relax and the realize you can recreate the fantastic roller coaster ride you’ve been on over the last two hours is to spend another $35,000 for more injections. And you realize that the pha

  326. 326
    Gvg says:

    @WaterGirl: she worked directly with Frankenstein and may never have met the VA guys. She may actually have known more about Franken, and therefore judged. Also since it was in her job directly, she had more responsibility as to what happened. She isn’t elected to run Virginia.
    I can’t be sure, but I think those details matter.

  327. 327
    opiejeanne says:

    @opiejeanne: I just found the wombat thread, and it is as you describe.

  328. 328
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Brickley Paiste:
    I was sorta pinging to see what the response looked like. :-)

  329. 329
    Gvg says:

    @Gvg: oh for Pete’s sake, autocorrect is changing Franken to Frankenstein and I didn’t catch it once above.

  330. 330
    Brickley Paiste says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    I should have a better response after I paste the snippets together tomorrow and put in proper chapters and formatting.

    Keep waiting the illustrations from BJ’s well known cartoonist.

  331. 331
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Brickley Paiste:

    I should have a better response after I paste the snippets together tomorrow and put in proper chapters and formatting.

    Please do, at least an explainer.

  332. 332
    Brickley Paiste says:

    Sneak preview: Drugs, two screaming African Grays, and humidity.

  333. 333
    ProfDamatu says:

    @Gvg:

    oh for Pete’s sake, autocorrect is changing Franken to Frankenstein and I didn’t catch it once above.

    But what a mental image! :-)

Comments are closed.