Thursday Morning Open Thread

Hill headline is — not for the first time — confusing. Sandusky voters will not be going to the polls in mid-October, but the city is changing one of its paid-leave holidays from the second Monday of October to the first Tuesday in November. Far from a perfect solution (for one thing, I’m sure people will complain about non-volunteer poll workers getting overtime comp), but it’s a start.
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Elsewhere in debatable election decisions…






155 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning,Everyone😐😐😐

  2. 2
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    BREAKING: Sandusky, Ohio will stop observing Columbus Day — switching the holiday to Election Day instead.

    Your move Columbus, Ohio.

    Or should I say Election Day, Ohio?

  4. 4
    NotMax says:

    Hoping the actual wording of the thing doesn’t say first Tuesday in November, as Election Day is always the first Tuesday in November which follows November 1st. If Nov. 1 falls on a Tuesday, Election Day is November 8th that year.

    What about off years when there are no elections? Is there also no holiday?

  5. 5
    NotMax says:

    Reminds me, gotta stock up on Vespucci Day paraphernalia.

    :)

  6. 6
    rikyrah says:

    Tickles me…Schiff sending those transcripts over to Bobby Three Sticks…
    Of the list, I think only one of them was smart enough NOT to lie to Congress..the rest were arrogant enough.😒😒

  7. 7
  8. 8
    NotMax says:

    Also, as this will affect only city workers, not Jane or John Doe who works in the private sector or state or federal workers, it seems a kind of empty symbolism.

  9. 9
    raven says:

    @NotMax: You mean like my workplace not observing Veterans Day?

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Blech.

  11. 11
    Amir Khalid says:

    @NotMax:
    Election Day should be on a weekend like it is in most countries, including Malaysia.

  12. 12
    NotMax says:

    @raven

    Dunno about that but can predict the city will be functioning with a skeleton crew on the Monday of that week as people call in sick in order to have a four-day weekend.

  13. 13
    NotMax says:

    @Amir Khalid

    Rather move it to Monday (or else have elections run over several consecutive days). Only a weekend day brings up too many possible religious complications.

  14. 14
    germy says:

    Aaron McGruder’s “Boondocks” revival arrives in the form of six brand new comic strips that find the characters taking on current events, from Donald Trump to the recent sexual abuse allegations against music stars R. Kelly and Michael Jackson: https://t.co/lveTn2wrJ8 pic.twitter.com/ne2mO5GslL— IndieWire (@IndieWire) February 7, 2019

  15. 15

    @NotMax: One could argue that this is another good reason to put Election Day on a Sunday. :p

    … really, though, if you just spread it over Saturday and Sunday, you should take care of most people.

  16. 16
    Amir Khalid says:

    @NotMax:
    I think having, say, a seven-day window for voting is a good idea. Although it would mean the end of breathless election-night TV coverage.

  17. 17
    NotMax says:

    @Amir Khalid

    So win-win.

    ;)

  18. 18
    John S. says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    If only Jews and gentiles used the same calendar and could agree on the Sabbath!

  19. 19
    germy says:

    They seem to be picking off Democratic threats one by one. At least they’re trying to.

    The news today is full of stories about Klobuchar not being nice to her staff. A tough boss.

    I don’t recall any stories about male tough bosses, but I guess that’s because they were always sweet to their assistants.

    And of course Warren. The dogged journalists dug up a 30+ year old form she filled out. Old fashioned shoe leather investigative journalism!

    Who is next? I’m guessing Harris.

    Meanwhile, CNN is giving Starbucks Schultz a televised town hall meeting, and he hasn’t even decided if he wants to run or not (maybe he will if we all promise to be nice to him).

  20. 20
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Amir Khalid: Election day should be at least a week long.

    eta i see you beat me to this.

  21. 21
    germy says:

    @Amir Khalid: The problem here is that news organizations want to scoop each other and immediately announce winners and losers. Before the votes are actually counted.

  22. 22
    Mike J says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    the end of breathless election-night TV coverage

    How quickly can we get this done?

    It’s just not that important to know the winner that night. Election day is two months before any of the outcomes will matter. An extra week to get a good count of the most possible people is a good thing.

  23. 23
    TS (the original) says:

    @NotMax:

    Only a weekend day brings up too many possible religious complications.

    Always had Saturday voting in my part of the world since I was born – never checked before then. Absentee voting/postal voting available for anyone who cannot get to a polling booth on a Saturday.

  24. 24
    Ian R says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Hell, the election season is two years long. The election itself should be at least a month.

  25. 25
    Amir Khalid says:

    @John S.:
    The Muslim version of a sabbath is on Friday, but unlike Judaism and Christianity we have no taboo against secular activities on that day.

  26. 26
    Raven says:

    They’ve only just begun.

    https://youtu.be/__VQX2Xn7tI

  27. 27
    debbie says:

    Clever move, Sandusky!

    @Baud:

    I agree. The city’s almost as blue as it is possible to be. I have to find the name of someone I can drown in emails.

  28. 28
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mike J: Hell, we still don’t know the winner of a NC congressional seat. Has the world ended?

  29. 29
    NotMax says:

    @Amir Khalid

    Question from one ignorant about the matter: are elections ever scheduled to be held during Ramadan?

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    We knew this going in.

  31. 31
    Amir Khalid says:

    @NotMax:
    They have been, in Malaysia. There’s really no reason not to.

  32. 32
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @germy: The Boondocks comics are here.

    eta scroll down to them

  33. 33
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    It is just fucking absurd to think there isn’t crap like this that has gone on in conservatives’ pasts. Where are the people digging for this???

  34. 34
    JPL says:

    @germy: Harris slept with a married man. Okay he was separated at the time, but he coulda helped with her career. That was in the news for ten seconds, so they will have to dig deeper. Yesterday I saw a few Kamala Harris bumper stickers. It was kinda nice.

  35. 35
    CliosFanboy says:

    @Amir Khalid: it’s a gradual change.
    Jews came first: No activity on Holy Day, and they (generally) keep it.
    Christians next: No activity on Holy Day. Ignore it. Close some stores early on a Sunday evening but that’s about it.
    Islam: screw it, do whatever you want.

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @JPL:

    Agreed. The only strategy is to power through the bullshit instead of wallowing in it. In other words, do the opposite of what we did in 2016.

  37. 37
    JPL says:

    @debbie: It’s almost as though the conservatives prepared for any circumstance What I would like someone to find is proof that trump funded an abortion, because it’s doubtful with his track record he didn’t. The religious bigots would be twisting in the wind to forgive him though

  38. 38
    rikyrah says:

    @JPL:
    A married man who is still married, but hasn’t lived with his wife in, like, forever.

  39. 39
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: IOKIYAR.

  40. 40
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    It is not doubtful; it is a fact. Can’t be that kind of a party boy without an oopsie or two.

  41. 41

    Yesterday I got my ballot in the mail for Santa Fe’s first ever mail-in election. A postcard the day before with instructions on how to go about it. Probably instructions with the ballot too. Also newspaper stories. Doing a good job so far.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @JPL:
    @rikyrah:

    Why are married and separated overlapping categories? I always believed them to be as mutually exclusive as married and single, divorced or widowed.

  43. 43

    School bond election, that is.

  44. 44
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @NotMax: In Ukraine, a majority-Christian and quite observant country, there are no issues with elections on Sundays. You go to Mass, and then you go vote. No problem.

  45. 45
    Kay says:

    The Warren thing has a “but her emails” feel, so maybe it’s a good test of whether that kind of deliberately exaggerated coverage can be overcome by a candidate.

  46. 46
    Kay says:

    I don’t actually have any problem with Klobuchar insisting people come to work on time. People in lower status jobs have to come to work on time, and they don’t think anything of getting three warnings with escalating punishments, “points”, etc. It’s a big part of their lives.

  47. 47
    Butch says:

    Or we could move elections to a Saturday when most people aren’t working. Just a thought.

  48. 48
    Jeffro says:

    With early voting and voting by mail, I can’t see a need for an additional week of walk-in voting. Election offices have enough trouble getting folks to work on Election Day as it is.

    Love the idea of swapping Columbus Day for Election Day, and/or having Election Day be on Veterans Day…whatever gets us to where it’s a day off for everyone.

    Working on that “VA Dems have made too much progress to let the ‘Big 3’s issues derail us this year or any year” op-ed…but it’ll have to wait until at least this afternoon, possibly tomorrow.

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    I don’t care at all about the heritage thing, but I’m finding she tends to overreact to media pressure.

  50. 50
    Kay says:

    Sandusky is not considered a wildly progressive place, so I’m interested in what the heck is going on there that they managed to make national news :)

  51. 51
    NotMax says:

    @Gin & Tonic

    Don’t have hard numbers but would guess one could count the number of, for one example, Amish in Ukraine on one hand and still have five fingers left unused.

    ;)

    @CliosFanboy

    Blue laws were still in effect when I moved here during the 1980s. It was a BFD when they were relaxed enough to permit gas stations and then supermarkets to open on Sundays.

  52. 52
    Sab says:

    @Gin & Tonic: In a lot of the US we vote in church buildings. The churches are using their parish halls, parking lots etc on Sundays.

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    I would hate to work in an inflexible environment, but even I have enough self-awareness of the privilege inherent in whining to the media about it.

  54. 54
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @germy: Harris has about four separate lines of attack going against her already, five if you count the completely hallucinatory birther attack.

    I’m thinking this level of activity mostly indicates that she feels like a potential frontrunner.

  55. 55
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Kay: Right now I’m seeing Democrats insisting that Warren drop out of the race both because she responded too much to the attacks and because she didn’t respond enough. Everyone’s a strategist.

  56. 56
    Kay says:

    Lower status jobs have more of a time dependency- if it’s shift work the whole thing depends on a turnover – replacing someone else – and if it’s manufacturing the business loses every minute they’re open but not running. So that’s true. But I think a lot of people will think insisting on being on time is “normal” because that’s their normal. Oh, well. I’ll probably hear much, much more about the meanness of Amy so I’ll reserve judgment and wait for the next 50 stories :)

  57. 57
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Baud:
    Because separated is the transition stage between married and divorced, I guess.

  58. 58
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Republicans have tried to shut down Sunday early-voting days in some states because black churches organize “Souls to the Polls” events to get their parishioners to vote after attending services.

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @Matt McIrvin: As I said, I’m not bowled over by her response skills. But that just means I might not vote for her in the primary. Dropping out for that reason is a silly request.

  60. 60
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Gin & Tonic: And all of us early rising atheists don’t have to wait in line to vote. Win/win.

  61. 61
    kindness says:

    Oh thank goodness! A thread where we can attack Republicans instead of ….

  62. 62
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: I agree that there is a real positive in setting work hour conditions and expectations like — show up on time. But the hit against Klobuchar that I thought was a worthy criticism if true, is her penchant for harshly criticizing her staff for minor mistakes. The reporting says she calls everything “the worst ______ ever” regularly. Like that’s the worst memo I’ve ever seen. Frankly classic shaming strategy and very bad management practice
    The article I read also said she liked to send out these shaming messages to lots of staff — even those uninvolved in the project being criticized — just to expand the pool of people who would see the shaming. That does not sound good. Also having staff run personal errands? And I bet there is more if she has trouble getting staff to both come on board with her and stay.

    We talk about the mess that is the Trump turn over. I think we should at least consider she might have different, but similar, issues re: managing a team.

  63. 63
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: It’s kinda funny, I never had any trouble arriving at the jobsite with enough time for a cup of coffee and a cigarette before the whistle.

  64. 64

    Buzzfeed used the docs from the Cohen case to create a list of events re negotiations for Trump Tower Moscow, juxtaposed with a second list of statements Trump made about the deal and Russia in general.

  65. 65
    Skepticat says:

    @Baud:

    I don’t care at all about the heritage thing, but I’m finding she tends to overreact to media pressure.

    You’re right, and I’m really surprised and disappointed.

    Qualifying as a U.S. citizen living overseas, I vote online–even when I’m in the States. I’m still in favor of having Election Day be a national holiday, although the long weekend syndrome does present problems.

  66. 66
    Mike J says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    You go to Mass, and then you go vote. No problem.

    Republicans do not want this. You know where the base of the Democratic party is on Sunday morning? Imagine if the reverend said, “we’re all going to vote after the service.”

    ETA: Or what Matt said in #58.

  67. 67
    Immanentize says:

    @kindness: The failure to honestly vet and critique our own candidates leads to the Virginia mess and Bernie Sanders. So, for me, as much information and discussion possible, please.

    But this country is so great that if someone wants to belong to a party that is not self-reflective, I think there is one like that.

  68. 68
    germy says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Harris has about four separate lines of attack going against her already, five if you count the completely hallucinatory birther attack.

    I’m thinking this level of activity mostly indicates that she feels like a potential frontrunner.

    Yes, she frightens them.

    And I read somewhere that trump’s advisors have warned him NOT to mention her in his tweets or speeches. They’re afraid she’ll get “extra attention” if he does that. So no nicknames, no twitter insults, nothing. But I suspect at some point all that pent up energy will erupt; he’ll ignore the advice and burst out in an ejaculatory frenzy of attack tweets against her.

  69. 69
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    honestly vet and critique 

    That doesn’t really happen though. We get distracted by the loudest or most cynical voices, rather than the most honest ones.

  70. 70
    Skepticat says:

    @JPL:

    Harris slept with a married man.

    Hasn’t recent history shown that this might be a prerequisite rather than a stumbling block?

  71. 71
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Matt McIrvin:
    Charlie Watts once said, when Mick is giving him dirty looks onstage that means he’s playing too slow. When Keef is giving him dirty looks, that means he’s playing too fast. And when they’re both giving him dirty looks …

  72. 72
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Oh my fucking gawd:

    The JetBlue president, Joanna Geraghty, warned employees against joining a union or participating in union activity in an email last month and claimed the company’s successes wouldn’t be possible if workers unionized, the Guardian can reveal.

    “As a result of our success, there will always be union reps, and even fellow crew members, who try to convince you that paying dues and having a union would be a better way to go. However, a union would never be able to give you a list of accomplishments like this,” Geraghty wrote in the email seen by the Guardian.

    The accomplishments cited in the email include a holiday party, adding more nail polish colors to the uniform policy, an app launch, and new bag scanners. “So if anyone asks you to sign a card, I’m asking you to decline. Don’t be fooled – the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence and you don’t have to look over that fence to see what unions have done (or failed to do) at other airlines,” the email said.

    Woot! Book da cruise!

  73. 73
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: That is so true. But the honest ones don’t get a microphone. Like I thought the Warren overreacts critique was really point on. I hadn’t thought of it that way before, but it is really a truth about her reactions. But the people with the mics want to keep hitting her on the identity issue….

    For me, her response of “that is what I was told, what my family believed, why my parents had to elope” should have been enough. But Trump et al got under her skin. She was forced to react (over react). Good insight.

  74. 74
    germy says:

    @Skepticat: You forgot the rest of the quote:

    Okay he was separated at the time

  75. 75
    NotMax says:

    @JPL

    Harris slept with a married man.

    So did Melania.

    ;)

  76. 76
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I had always assumed that all the airlines were unionized.

    That email would make me want to join a union if I didn’t previously want to.

  77. 77
  78. 78
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: My wife sleeps with a married man nearly every night.

  79. 79
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: That email has me oiling up the guillotine.

  80. 80
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: @Baud:
    I bet the Union won’t offer nail polish choice, but may increase friggin training and safety!

    When Sully the savior flew the plane into the Hudson saving everyone aboard, that entire result was Union sponsored — pilots union, flight attendants union, even the tugs that were first to the site were union staffed. And it was the training and the safety measures fought for by all those unions that brought that crash and rescue to a fabulous conclusion. Where do I sign up?

  81. 81
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Put in mind of back when the Soviet Union crowed about their great achievement and major leap forward when the GUM department store began offering a second shade of lipstick – pink in addition to red.

  82. 82
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: on other nights she sleeps with you?

    That so feels like Rodney Dangerfield….

  83. 83
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Are the Executioners unionized?

    (That would be a cool band name BTW).

  84. 84
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Nope, too easy. Shall elect to let the comedy lob just hang in the air.

    :)

  85. 85
    Immanentize says:

    @NotMax: Obviously you have more personal restraint than I do.

  86. 86
    NotMax says:

    @Immanentize

    There’s low hanging fruit and then there’s ground hugging fruit.

    Wouldn’t chance throwing my back out bending over to seize the latter.

    ;)

  87. 87
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: The Carpenters union is responsible for all safety training, from OSHA 10 to Rigging certification to Lift Operating to Scaffolding etc etc. Had to take one every year (8 hrs on a Saturday)(unpaid)

    The contractor’s safety training amounts to a 20 minute video and an asst superintendent telling you how much they care and how “we are all family”. Gack gack … I almost got thrown off a jobsite on the first day for telling an AS where he could stick that whole “family” BS.

  88. 88
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: @NotMax: On the other nights she sleeps with the dog…..

    Resist that NM

  89. 89
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Afterwards Sully praised the training he and the others received from the union.

  90. 90
    debit says:

    @Immanentize: Wow, if true no wonder her office never responds to anything. Must be paralyzed with indecision about how to handle it or utterly demoralized.

    However, this doesn’t change anything for me. Once Kamala declared, I was firmly in her camp and will remain so.

  91. 91
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    OK WaPo, you can do better than this:

    Millian, now 40, came to Steele’s attention after the firm Fusion GPS hired the former British intelligence officer in June 2016 to research Trump’s business history in Russia on behalf of Democrat Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.

    Funny how the fact that Steele started his investigation for unnamed Republicans has gone down the rabbit hole.

  92. 92
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Or you could have chanted “Herbert!” at him.

    ;)

    @Immanentize

    Touché.

    An etched into memory Dangerfield bit:

    “My wife complains I never take her out to eat. So I made some TV dinners and set up the card table in the garage.”

  93. 93
    rikyrah says:

    Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) Tweeted:
    Consumer Financial Protection Board announces it wants to rescind parts of the rule governing “Payday, Vehicle Title, and Certain High-Cost Installment Loans.”

    https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1093269828360720384?s=17

  94. 94
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s technically correct because the primaries were over by June. But you’re right that the media has done an awful job in explaining that the GOP started the dossier investigation.

  95. 95
    rikyrah says:

    Chris Evans (@notcapnamerica) Tweeted:
    I’m confused. This woman was asking what was going to be done to address the systemic oppression of black Americans and Bernie started talking about white people being poor….

    https://t.co/HBx0xeD5W1 https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1093353315843362816?s=17

  96. 96
    Frankensteinbeck says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I’m interested. Why Friday? For Jews, it’s because God rested on the seventh day. For Catholics, it’s because of an ancient decision by the church whose reasoning is lost. For Protestants, it’s because they absorbed wholesale a lot of Catholic positions without actually interpreting the Bible for themselves.

  97. 97
    NotMax says:

    @OzarkHillbilly

    Damn dog struts around all the next day giving me side eye and snickering.

    ;)

  98. 98
    rikyrah says:

    Chris Evans (@notcapnamerica) Tweeted:
    So much for Bernie winning California.

    QUINNIPIAC:

    Would you be excited if X were the nominee?

    Biden 60/31
    Harris 58/29
    Warren 44/41
    O’Rourke 40/36
    Sanders 44/49

    https://t.co/cOEnZ0VvkF https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1093218632400863232?s=17

  99. 99
    gratuitous says:

    One thing of note: There’s no such thing as presidential harassment. It’s not a thing. Trump can kvetch about it all he wants, but that doesn’t change reality, where there is no such thing as presidential harassment.

  100. 100
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @NotMax: I’m not sure what that comment about the Amish has to do with anything, but, interestingly, there was a large Mennonite/Anabaptist community in Ukraine in the 19th Century. After the Bolshevik revolution things didn’t go very well for them, and during the Stalin era things really didn’t go well for them, as they were considered German, so most were forcibly moved to Siberia. Many of those moved to the Harbin area and were resettled after the war; those that remained were not permitted to return to Ukraine. Despite that, there are now small communities of Amish-like people in Ukraine who do not seem to have any direct genealogical or doctrinal connection to the original Mennonite communities, but to the uninfomed observer appear “Amish.”

  101. 101
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:
    My guess is, Friday because not Saturday like the Jews or Sunday like the Christians.

  102. 102
    waratah says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: wish there was a way to stop that happening. Most of the journalists copy and paste with a few added words. When I do see a properly researched story they have to add, but critics say.

  103. 103
    PPCLI says:

    @germy:

    Millian also offered to serve as a conduit to the Trump campaign for a Belarusan author in Florida with connections to the Russian government, according to emails obtained by The Washington Post.

    The author, Mikhail Morgulis

    Unusually aptly named for one of Putin’s faceless men. They approach you in the spirit of valar dohaeris, but before long you hear “valar morghulis”.

  104. 104
    WereBear says:

    Working at home because of relentless ICE RAIN.

    Last night we got a robocall from the town, a first, telling us to stay off the streets and sidewalks. Got a text from a friend who got cocky and walked out of their house wearing micro-spikes. BOOM! He’s okay, but that’s how slick it was.

    This morning I peeked and out still saw lots of ice, though the streets looked merely wet. And as I watched, I saw a car go through a puddle and sliiiiiiiide into another lane.

    I took it as a sign.

  105. 105
    NotMax says:

    @gratuitous

    There’s no such thing as [insert 95% of things he spews out about].

    ;)

  106. 106
    Immanentize says:

    @NotMax:I was channelling this one:

    My wife is a real tiger in bed. She likes to talk dirty to me when she’s having sex. So, she calls me on the phone.

  107. 107

    @WereBear: Good decision. It was like that here Tuesday night/yesterday morning.

  108. 108
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Donald Trump is screaming “Impeach me! Impeach me!” although he doesn’t realize that he’s doing it.

  109. 109
    NotMax says:

    @Gin & Tonic

    Other than the most necessary tasks such as care and feeding of farm animals, traditional Amish reserve Sunday for religious reflection and familial time. Secular tasks/responsibilities are not forbidden, per se, but are frowned upon. Some Amish women do not cook on Sundays at all.

    Then there’s the Mennonite Jews, who observe Sabbath on both Saturday and Sunday.

  110. 110
    Kay says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s kinda funny, I never had any trouble arriving at the jobsite with enough time for a cup of coffee and a cigarette before the whistle.

    I feel frazzled if I’m late too, so it’s not worth it to me. It’s nice if you ARE late because then you have a reputation for being on time and they know something horrible happened :)

    We had a judge who fined us for lateness. It was out of control. Everyone was there and ready except the lawyers, and we know one another quite well (it’s a small group) so we were covering for each other “is he here? I don’t know…I don’t know if I saw him or not, stop interrogating me”.
    They can’t directly fine so he mandated a 100 dollar donation to the charity of your choice and you had to submit a receipt. I was glad he did it.
    I don’t really understand the magical thinking behind a lot of it. If it takes 40 minutes to get there it isn’t going to start taking 30 minutes because you need the 10.

  111. 111
    Ramalama says:

    @Kay: I only spent a very long weekend in Sandusky to ride all of the roller coasters at Cedar Point amusement park. That place has the absolute best selection. The town itself seemed to be a little down and out. Kind of how I think about other towns that have a casino/riverboat type dealie. Other than Las Vegas, those towns are depressing.

    What I mean to say is, (on the) Way to go Ohio.

  112. 112
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Absolutely.

  113. 113

    @Kay: When I was teaching, I always started class on time and refused to repeat myself when latecomers came up to me at the end and asked what they missed. If you wait for them to start, everyone else winds up sitting around. Sometimes they just get later because they now believe class starts at 9 :05 and they HAVE to be 5 minutes late. It’s a control thing for some people.

    If that sounds hostile, it probably is. I’m obsessively on time.

  114. 114
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: I feel like it’s an easy way to appeal to trump supporters, “It was done at the behest of the Evil Harpy Hillary!!!”

  115. 115

    @Butch: Our town elections are usually on a Saturday.

  116. 116
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @NotMax: I also think many Amish/Mennonites, at least in the US, do not vote at all, even on Tuesdays. I do not know about the voting practices of Dukhobory/”Amish”/Old Believers/other religious minorities in Russia or Ukraine.

  117. 117
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I had a friend who was in a group that held a regular Sunday softball game. They told him the game was at 11:00. All the others knew the game was at 1:00, but this way he was on time.

  118. 118
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Worst class I ever taught was held in the portable farthest from the school building, so had to factor in the extra time for students to get there.

    Class size was 52. Split by a break for lunch halfway through the period, so required to take attendance twice. On a good day, might squeeze in maybe 12 minutes of teaching time.

  119. 119
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Are Russians running some of attacks?

    I had impression they started from Wilmer supporters.

    Maybe Wilmerites also trying to take out real competition for their base in Warren?

    Anyone doing serious, concerted oppo research/big media leaks on Wilmer?

  120. 120
    rikyrah says:

    Hmmm😒😒

    Folks, in short order there are now damaging and stereotypical media narratives out there about these Democratic women:

    Kamala Harris
    Kirsten Gillibrand
    Elizabeth Warren
    Amy Klobuchar

    Anyone sensing a pattern yet? Maybe check with our last nominee.

    — Tom Watson (@tomwatson) February 6, 2019

  121. 121
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: Nearly every job I worked on was 1-2 hours away. A lot can happen in that many miles so I just made it a habit to get there 1/2 hour early. If I got hung up by traffic I still had 15 mins for coffee.

    It’s nice if you ARE late because then you have a reputation for being on time and they know something horrible happened :)

    I was heading down to Shannon Co to meet up with some fellow cavers and had to pull over and sleep because I just couldn’t keep my eyes open any more. There was genuine relief on their faces when I pulled in the next morning.

  122. 122
    WereBear says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Right now I’m seeing Democrats insisting that Warren drop out of the race both because she responded too much to the attacks and because she didn’t respond enough. Everyone’s a strategist.

    I have a radical idea. Let’s let candidates take their stances to the voters and then, I don’t know, they all gather somewhere and like, VOTE, for the one they like best?

    Whaddya think? Cray-cray?

  123. 123
    Kay says:

    I have an acquaintance who voted for Trump. I actually know a lot of Trump voters, but I spoke with this one about politics, is the thing. He told me he has always “considered himself a Republican” so maybe he thought I believed differently, although I never wondered at all.

    Anyway, he did the thing Bush supporters used to do when Bush became unpopular. They would tell me two things- all politicians are bad, and Kerry sucked. What they never did was actually criticize Bush. I never realized this until this time around, and I find I’m more impatient with them this time. I told him “you’re telling me you’re a Republican and you voted for the Republican, which is not really “nonpartisan, both sides are bad” and also you’re only criticizing Clinton and not Trump”.

    I was polite up until how he “threw up a little in my mouth” when even considering Clinton, because if this is the way the Trumpsters are gonna play it, disappointment with Trump means another opportunity to bash Clinton, then fuck that, I’m not their sympathetic listener.

  124. 124
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I don’t actually have any problem with Klobuchar insisting people come to work on time. People in lower status jobs have to come to work on time, and they don’t think anything of getting three warnings with escalating punishments, “points”, etc. It’s a big part of their lives.

    I didn’t even read the story…THAT is what they’re whining about…that she expects people to BE ON TIME?

    PHUCK OUTTA HERE.

    I am not late to work.
    Period.

    If I’m not there when the time comes, then that means that I’m not coming.
    I leave early because I like the cushion of giving myself time for those ‘ just in case’ scenarios.
    I like being early to work because I can get myself in order for the day.

    If the worst that they’ve got on Klobuchar is that she demands people be on time..
    then, they truly don’t have shyt on her.

  125. 125
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Skepticat: ONLY FOR MEN!! And only GrOP men at that!

    Women must be sexually pure!

  126. 126

    @Gin & Tonic: I had a friend like that too. And we did the same thing, except I don’t think we allowed two hours. That’s epic.

    @NotMax: Holy cow. Loss of teaching time is what my DIL complains about most in all the standardized testing they have to do. I think she said that between state and federal, it takes 4 weeks of her year.

  127. 127
    NotMax says:

    @WereBear

    Oh, you wild-eyed radical you.

    ;)

  128. 128
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    “Never heard of him,” Trump first says about Adam Schiff, a Democratic congressman he has repeatedly attacked. Then a few minutes later he says Schiff is “just a political hack trying to build a name for himself.”

    I think Trump is really going to lose it mentally.

  129. 129
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Immanentize:

    I agree that there is a real positive in setting work hour conditions and expectations like — show up on time. But the hit against Klobuchar that I thought was a worthy criticism if true, is her penchant for harshly criticizing her staff for minor mistakes. The reporting says she calls everything “the worst ______ ever” regularly. Like that’s the worst memo I’ve ever seen. Frankly classic shaming strategy and very bad management practice

    It’s also standard business practice these days.

  130. 130
    laura says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: great! I just booked a JetBlue rt to NYC in March. Will bring a fat stack of Union literature to slip to the crew.
    I’ve spent 6 hours walking a picket line yesterday at Marin General Hospital and my hips are so sore I couldnt sleep last night. Proposed cuts in wages, benefits or pension and out to the streets we go.

  131. 131
    WereBear says:

    @Amir Khalid: Charlie Watts has to have access to a bottomless well of mellow to have lasted with all those PERSONALITIES in the band :)

  132. 132
    cmorenc says:

    @germy:

    Meanwhile, CNN is giving Starbucks Schultz a televised town hall meeting, and he hasn’t even decided if he wants to run or not (maybe he will if we all promise to be nice to him).

    OTOH, it might be useful if Schultz was subjected to 20+ consecutive questions from the citizen audience along the lines of “didn’t you learn anything from Ralph Nader;s independent run back in 2000?” and “how exactly are you going to win 270 electoral votes instead of diverting just enough votes to help re-elect Trump?”

    Of course, CNN might not be happy with permitting the citizenry to so persistently and blatanty (even if deservedly) tarnish their shiny object – the Schults Town Hall, and may cut off any further questions by anyone not appearing to take Schultz’s candidacy seriously rather than as than a spoiler vanity project.

  133. 133
    Kay says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I think it has to be taught by someone. My youngest is working at Taco Bell and he would call this poor manager and ask her what his schedule was. She was probably young so she’s putting up with this nonsense so I overheard him asking her to go look and I told him to stop bothering her. My young clients take a picture of their schedule so I suggested he do that.

    I don’t think she’s doing him any favors dropping everything and reading his schedule to him. I would just say “no” and hang up :)

  134. 134
    montanareddog says:

    @NotMax: Then there’s the Mennonite Jews, who observe Sabbath on both Saturday and Sunday.

    I wonder what denomination Shitgibbon belongs to, since he seems observe the Sabbath injunction 7 days a week

  135. 135
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: In60s German universities listed classes a ct ie cum tempore (class starts 15 min afterposted time) or ot ie ohne tempore ( class starts at posted time)

  136. 136
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: He can’t lose it again, if he ever had it to begin with.

  137. 137
    NotMax says:

    @cmorenc

    Allowable questions:

    Milk – 2% or whole?
    What’s you favorite color in the Crayola box?
    How do you feel about dunking doughnuts in coffee?
    And the perennial Barbara Walters special: If you were a tree, what kind would would be?

    As for Nader, every study conducted to academic standards since has shown he pulled votes roughly equally from both major party candidates. In one county there was execrable ballot design which gave him an advantage, but that wasn’t his doing. He was an unnecessary irritant who had no business running in the first place but not a spoiler

  138. 138
  139. 139
    NotMax says:

    @montanareddog

    ME ME MEnnonite.

    :)

  140. 140
    Yarrow says:

    @Baud:

    I don’t care at all about the heritage thing, but I’m finding she tends to overreact to media pressure.

    I agree. When people run for president we learn things about them. I don’t know that her response is typical of how she’d be as president, but it does give me pause. I haven’t been impressed by her response to this issue.

    She had a chance to address the issue and get past it using some combination of talking about family stories/oral histories, how Native Americans were treated by whites in our country’s history (and how that issue continues today), how her grandmother (or was it great-grandmother?) wasn’t fully accepted into her family/white society and that’s a story others can relate to, meeting with tribal leaders and asking how her story felt from their perspective, etc. She could have honored her family, acknowledged our difficult history, and been respectful of tribal leadership, authority and experience.

    It could have been a powerful story of family and history–an inclusive, sympathetic response to both her family and Native Americans. It might have lessened the impact of other instances of the issue coming up, like the one yesterday, because it would have been inclusive of her whole story.

    If I can think of all that then it is kind of surprising to me that a skilled politician couldn’t put it together.

  141. 141
    The Pale Scot says:

    The could explain a lot..
    Older Generation Acting Like They Mined Coal All Their Life

    “Despite not having it all that tough, the older generation has somehow formed a false reality about its past,” Dr. Marcus Richardson explains, “with many of the candidates surveyed telling stories about going to school barefoot, mining for coal and even claiming to eat nothing but sugar on bread growing up”.

    Also,
    British Parliament Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act

    Acting in the best interest of a large group of people who have reportedly become completely untethered from reality, doctors confirmed they had no choice but to act after watching a live feed from parliament yesterday.

    It took me a bit to be sure I was reading satire, this is the Irish Onion I guess

  142. 142

    @Baud: One good thing about the Warren candidacy is that many BS supporters have migrated over to her in my neck of the woods (western MA, which was BS country last time).

  143. 143
    geg6 says:

    @Kay:

    What I did read was that she would berate employees via email and copy in everyone in the office, even if those people had nothing to do with what caused her to berate the employee. That’s pretty unacceptable to me. Shows a complete lack of any sort of respect for her employees’ privacy and humanity. It’s abusive and bullying behavior. Not a good look.

  144. 144
    germy says:

    @cmorenc:

    OTOH, it might be useful if Schultz was subjected to 20+ consecutive questions from the citizen audience

    Or if he were treated the way Matt Lauer treated HRC during her town hall.

    I would pepper Schultz with questions about the inconsistencies in his autobiography, for example. Then I’d move on to his “entitlement reform” opinions.

  145. 145
    Skepticat says:

    @germy: It isn’t that I forgot it; it’s that the example to which I was not-so-slyly alluding doesn’t bother with those niceties.

  146. 146
    Cheryl from Maryland says:

    @Kay: I agree with geg6 — it’s not the criticism, it’s how it is performed. I had several bosses (before I retired) who were into public shaming WITH useless criticism. And those who did that were not only useless but dangerous. Putting tardy slips on people’s desks without even asking why they are late (this is DC, was there an unexpected Metro shutdown?) is passive aggressive as well as unhelpful. I had something similar when a supervisor had her daughter in the office (school was canceled) and let her grade each office space due to tidiness, including taping the grade to each office door. Demoralizing and not helpful. The same with complaining about memos without explaining why “this is the worst;” it not only paralyzes one’s staff but kills initiative. It fosters lack of initiative all along down the line (no one wants to approve something without the boss signing off on it). Which slows down everything. My experience was such bosses couldn’t articulate to what bothered them — I would ask for a private meeting take the “offending” document, and ask what were the specific issues. I either got no answer (oh, it’s okay, really), or you should know why it’s bad. Bosses with those traits suck.

  147. 147
    cmorenc says:

    @germy:

    Or if he were treated the way Matt Lauer treated HRC during her town hall.

    …where Lauer repeatedly asked HRC variations of the question: “Are you a member of the Turd Club?” And the only “passing” answer from Lauer’s view was “you bet your sweet ass I am”.

  148. 148
    JGabriel says:

    Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Far from a perfect solution (for one thing, I’m sure people will complain about non-volunteer poll workers getting overtime comp) …

    I’m perfectly okay with the people who work to preserve and enable our democratic processes getting overtime pay.

    And that’s what we should tell anyone who bitches about it.

  149. 149
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @rikyrah: If you’re late to work in the Army, you’re up on charges.

  150. 150
    Michael Cain says:

    You can have my mail-in ballot when you pry it from my cold dead fingers.

    As a region, a substantial majority of the votes cast in the western states of the US are now cast by mail. Colorado, Oregon, and Washington mail ballots to every registered voter. Arizona, California, and Montana have permanent no-excuse absentee ballot lists; in those states roughly 75%, 65% and 55% respectively of all ballots cast are absentee. (One of the reasons it takes so long to count ballots in Arizona and California is that they both have 1980s era absentee ballot systems that were never intended to handle the current volumes.) Utah allows counties to make the choice about mail-in or not and I believe there’s only one county left that doesn’t do mail-in.

  151. 151
    StringOnAStick says:

    @Yarrow: Our office manager is married to a Native American, and they are very liberal in all aspects of their lives; we have a “did you see what that idiot did now” discussion every day it seems. When the Warren DNA thing hit she showed me a meme that was going around in NA circles of a white duck captioned “I’m only a little bit white”. She told me she thought the issue was silly but the duck photo was cute. What I took from it was that it was an irritant that the NA community wasn’t going to forget though not necessarily disqualifying. Still, an unforced error made due to tRump ‘s goading and it might have long lasting consequences.

  152. 152
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Cheryl from Maryland: Beating down people is the idea, your mistake is you think these managers have any interest in an efficient department and not just control over other people.

  153. 153
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Hmm the more I think of it, this story all I need to know about Klobuchar to vote against her. We already have one asshole control freak boss in the White House and don’t need another one.

  154. 154
    JoeyJoeJoe says:

    @rikyrah: senator Herman Talmadge required employees to be at his office at 6am. He wasn’t criticized for it, he was just considered an early riser. The double standard seems fairly clear

  155. 155
    Cheryl from Maryland says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yep. Asshole control freaks with no idea to do or concern about the job. Klobucar is no longer in my possible list. Also, what is sexist isn’t that she is getting called out, it is that more men arent.

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