Impeach DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen

Well, first things first. Via NBC News:

The Trump administration said in a court filing that reuniting thousands of migrant children separated from their parents or guardians at the U.S.-Mexico border may not be “within the realm of the possible.”

The filing late Friday from Jallyn Sualog, deputy director of the department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Refugee Resettlement, was an ordered response in an ACLU lawsuit challenging the government’s separation of at least 2,737 children of migrants detained at the border since summer 2017.

Sualog said her office doesn’t have the resources to track down the children, whose numbers could be thousands more than the official estimate.

“Even if performing the analysis Plaintiffs seek were within the realm of the possible, it would substantially imperil ORR’s ability to perform its core functions without significant increases in appropriations from Congress, and a rapid, dramatic expansion of the ORR data team,” she said.

Perhaps the Democrats could appropriate $5.7B to expand the data team and fund the analysis. Then, every time Trump or his minions bleat about WALL money, they could reply, “Oops, sorry — the very sum you requested had to be diverted to fund family reunification activities because your administration’s inhumane family separation policy was enacted by incompetents who took less care tracking human beings than an Ace Hardware store uses to track $.01 nails.

Then, file articles of impeachment on Nielsen and hold hearings to dig into the details of this horror, including the depraved indifference, the incompetence and the profiteering. I’m not a Constitutional scholar, but I’m pretty sure lying to Congress in sworn testimony (perjury) is an impeachable offense and that cabinet members are subject to removal via that mechanism.

Although nothing can atone for the trauma wrought in our name by the racist policies of these heartless liars, impeaching Nielsen would focus attention on the thousands of families who’ve been destroyed. It would force Republicans to go on record in support of the whole putrid Trump administration approach to immigration at the southern border — the cruel, ineffective policies, the rank carelessness, the repeated lies, etc. It would also serve as dress rehearsal for impeaching Nielsen’s boss.






171 replies
  1. 1

    Thanks for highlighting this. T admin is making asylum seekers wait in Mexico now but it is also keeping them from meeting with lawyers and journalists.
    Details here

  2. 2
    SFAW says:

    but I’m pretty sure lying to Congress in sworn testimony (perjury) is an impeachable offense and that cabinet members are subject to removal via that mechanism.

    As of 1/20/17, no longer true. Unless the perjurer is a Dem, of course.

  3. 3
    SFAW says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Thanks for highlighting this. T admin is making asylum seekers wait in Mexico now but it is also keeping them from meeting with lawyers and journalists.

    I would be so happy if this entire maladministration were carted off to the dungeon(s).

  4. 4
    Barbara says:

    I can’t bring myself to be sarcastic about this. Forcibly separating parents from minor children and then losing track of the children is a crime against humanity. The identities of all people associated with this policy — implementing it, carrying it out, should be published far and wide prompting arrest and prosecution whenever they try to travel abroad. Nielsen is as evil as Trump. Even if this wasn’t her idea, she did it to save her job.

  5. 5
    Mike in NC says:

    Saw an article mentioning one Roman Abromovich, Russian-born Israeli billionaire who owns a US steel mill. Very close confidant to Vladimir Putin, so by extension our very own Fat Bastard. Abromovich would stand to make more billions by being awarded the contract to build the “steel slat” wall on the border with Mexico. Whocoodanode?

  6. 6
    Immanentize says:

    Nielsen is a monster.

    That is all.

  7. 7
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Isn’t kidnapping a federal offense?

  8. 8

    BTW this was noble general John Kelly’s brainchild.

  9. 9
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Barbara: “I vas only ffollowingk orders.” didn’t work at Nuremberg, it shouldn’t here.

  10. 10
    smintheus says:

    Also ought to be a dress rehearsal for indicting and jailing both Trump and Nielsen.

  11. 11
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Immanentize: There’s really nothing more to say.

  12. 12
    Betty Cracker says:

    @smintheus: Yes, and everyone else who participated in the crimes. As Barbara noted above, they should all be exposed.

  13. 13

    reuniting thousands of migrant children separated from their parents or guardians at the U.S.-Mexico border may not be “within the realm of the possible.”

    I would say ‘feature, not bug’, but really it’s more that they just don’t give a fuck. Brown people were suffering. There was no reason to think further. Throw the children into cages and laugh, end of plan.

  14. 14

    @smintheus: And Kelly. He was the DHS secretary, who first implemented many of the current horrible strategies, including the Muslim ban the weekend after T took office.

  15. 15
    MattF says:

    Why not indict Nielsen? There’s debate about whether a president can be indicted, but Cabinet members don’t have that protection, even in theory.

  16. 16
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mike in NC:
    Chelsea’s Roman Abramovich? When did he get Israeli citizenship?

  17. 17
    NotMax says:

    Worse than incompetence, it is studied incompetence.

    “But I don’t wanna” as central policy is not governance – and also no defense.

  18. 18

    @MattF:

    Why not indict Nielsen?

    My strong guess would be ‘no relevant prosecutor to do it.’ It’s out of Mueller’s scope. It’s possible Nancy will hire one. I believe the House can do that. It would be a Hell of a thing.

  19. 19
    smintheus says:

    @Barbara: @OzarkHillbilly: @Betty Cracker: @schrodingers_cat: This is as bad as the kidnapping and forced adoption of the children of unmarried mothers that the Catholic Church used to engage in, where the losing track of children was clearly a tactic to prevent the mothers from ever holding them accountable.

  20. 20
    WaterGirl says:

    Never seeing your parents again. Never seeing your children again. Never knowing if your child was still alive, and at least safe. Never knowing why your parents left you.

    For the monsters in this administration, none of that matters because they are “those people”. They are brown and they are poor and they are not fully human. My rage over this knows no bounds.

  21. 21
    scav says:

    They have to destroy families because they’re the party of family values.

  22. 22
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @smintheus: @WaterGirl:

    Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo will soon have a chapter in the US.

  23. 23
    scav says:

    Side by side with the overt nepotism in the white house, that’s a strong visual of what families are the valuable ones.

  24. 24
    Miss Bianca says:

    your administration’s inhumane family separation policy was enacted by incompetents who took less care tracking human beings than an Ace Hardware store uses to track $.01 nails.

    Having worked at an Ace Hardware, I can tell you that we tracked $.01 nails with a fuckton *more* care and accuracy than the offal at DHS used to track human beings. Impeachment of Ilsa Nielsen is only the first step – trials, conviction, and federal prison for everyone involved in this barbarity.

  25. 25

    @WaterGirl: Totally agree. I can’t even summon the words to express how angry this makes me. The parents’ pain…the children’s trauma….Nielsen and her minions need to pay in the most public way possible.

  26. 26
    Achrachno says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Is prosecution under state kidnapping laws possible? Then T can’t pardon, and more jurisdictions can get involved. The repubs only tool for disruption would be the stacked courts.

  27. 27

    @WaterGirl: They are doing this in our name.

  28. 28
    joel hanes says:

    the details of this horror, including the depraved indifference, the incompetence and the profiteering.

    Let us not forget that one bunch of the kids stolen from their asylum-seeking parents were immediately shipped off to a “Christian” adoption agency associated with Betsy DeVos. IMHO, this is either human traficking or kidnapping. Or both.

    GOP delenda est.

  29. 29
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Are you and little imma gonna cheer on your home team? I didn’t realize the Ram;s coach went to a Marist. There’s several players on both sides from GA.

  30. 30
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    It cannot be stated too many times that we put people to death after WWII for the things DHS and ICE are doing.

  31. 31

    I fear we’re never going to get accountability for this. It’s not just a disagreement with a political rival. It’s not criminalizing politics. But that’s what the excuse for letting it go will be. This is evil being done right in front of us by people who look normal at first glance.

  32. 32
    sukabi says:

    @Miss Bianca: I would think there could be very strong cases for kidnapping, child abuse, rape, neglect, torture, and trafficking and in the deaths of the children we know about manslaughter or murder.

    Adding the laws that apply to every other citizen should apply to these ghouls as well, moreso for the monsters who decided to try and “legalize” these crimes by making it “official government policy”.

  33. 33
    JPL says:

    As a mom I can’t tell you how many tears I shed. They are monsters, and this subject wasn’t even part of the midterm conversation.

  34. 34
    SFAW says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Chelsea’s Roman Abramovich? When did he get Israeli citizenship?

    HEY!!! None of that talk re: what you non-Muricans call “football” on REAL Football’s Biggest Day.

    It’s almost as if you’re not even American, Amir.

  35. 35
  36. 36

    @Amir Khalid:

    Chelsea’s Roman Abramovich? When did he get Israeli citizenship?

    I puzzled over this, wondering if you meant Chelsea Clinton. I guess not. :-)

  37. 37
    SRW1 says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Last year. I recall a short notice in The Guardian that poor Roman had to miss a few Chelsea games because of problems with his Russian citizenship after some Russian ‘tourists’ had gone sightseeing Salsbury cathedral and lost some nerve agent on their way.

  38. 38
    joel hanes says:

    @smintheus:

    the kidnapping and forced adoption of the children of unmarried mothers that the Catholic Church used to engage in

    See the extraordinary movie “Philomena”, starring Judy Dench.
    And weep.

  39. 39
    Gvg says:

    Kidnapping is a Federal crime. Does that mean a state AG can’t prosecute? I imagine they have to have standing, which would mean either the parents or children were in that state. I know a bunch are in Texas and some in Florida. Parents often deported, but otherwise scattered across the US. Basically I don’t see how they had lawful authority to separate the families. DHS at the state level can only do it for cause with judges orders based on specific facts of a specific case, not general racist feelings. Also I would think states still have their own kidnapping laws. I want to see some ICE agents arrested and charged. I think it would seriously slow down further kidnappings.

  40. 40
    Sebastian says:

    This whole matter strikes so close to home.

    Thank you for writing this, Betty. This is why I fight.

  41. 41
  42. 42
  43. 43
    Immanentize says:

    @JPL: We are not huge football guys (more into the Boston/Houston baseball rivalry) but you cannot help but root for the Patriots here. Risk of life, etc.

    I posted this one morning, but I will leave it here too because it’s so freaking accurate (including the Brady love)
    Shit Boston Girls Say

    And don’t forget my kruller!

  44. 44
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    No need to impeach her. Nothing says that a Cabinet member cannot be indicted. I would assume that she would have to resign after being convicted.

  45. 45
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: you are confused because Amir used the alternate spelling, “Chelsea”, rather than the preferred “Chelski”

  46. 46
    Sebastian says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Exactly. And unless people start getting prosecuted for these crimes nothing will ever change.

    But don’t forget who we are dealing with. Evil incarnate.

  47. 47

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I would say ‘feature, not bug’, but really it’s more that they just don’t give a fuck.

    I think you’re wrong. This isn’t a matter of not caring. They actively want to kidnap these children and not give them back. It’s both a punishment for the parents (and hence a threat to future asylum seekers) and a way of providing children to people who want to adopt.

  48. 48

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    It’s possible Nancy will hire one. I believe the House can do that.

    If the House can hire prosecutors, they ought to hire ones to prosecute every Trump Administration official who perjured themselves in front of the House. Lock them all up!

  49. 49
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: While nothing says cabinet members can’t be indicted, who at this DOJ is likely to have the stones to present it?

  50. 50
    Immanentize says:

    @Sebastian: This is not evil incarnate. Don’t elevate what they do to an external godlike animus. These are human beings given powers of life and death over other human beings and Nielsen the monster (and others) are making decisions that violate their constitutional rights as well as their human rights. Nothing external about it. They are doing these horrible things because they can.

  51. 51
    SRW1 says:

    Sualog said her office doesn’t have the resources to track down the children, whose numbers could be thousands more than the official estimate.

    Maybe they should have tattooed some tracking number into the underarms of the kids. I hear some other administration found that efficient..

  52. 52
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Response to superior orders is never a defense for violations of human rights or war crimes.

    (Technically, except if you are under duresss, i.e. your life is being threatened. Even then, the law out of the Yugoslav conflict on the duress defenseis a bit hazy)

  53. 53
    WaterGirl says:

    @Immanentize: Having grown up in Chicago, a lot of that sounds familiar to me, though some of the names are different, of course.

    kruellers, crullers – You say potato, I say potato. No matter how you spell it, there is not a decent one to be found in this town, and every time I buy one, full of hope, I end up taking one bite of a dry krueller and then throwing the whole thing out. So sad.

    Don’t even get me started on the lack of good italian beef. And my favorite italian beef place in chicago closed it’s last location, so I can’t even get it when I go to the city. sigh.

  54. 54
    Timurid says:

    I remember back in the Bronze Age sometime, when Boko Haram and ISIS did this to kids, and it was actually considered kind of a big deal…

  55. 55
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Yeah. My bad.

  56. 56
    WereBear says:

    THIS a thousand million times.

  57. 57
    WaterGirl says:

    @Roger Moore: Not people, it’s WHITE PEOPLE, the “right” people.

    It makes me sick.

  58. 58
    Duane says:

    I read the FTFNYT article about Trumpov’s policy of family seperation. They did it on purpose as a deterrent to stop immigrants from coming here. Evil that is beyond criminal. No matter what it cost, how long it takes, find those children. People should go to jail for this, probably won’t, but if there’s any decency left we can find those children.

  59. 59
    Immanentize says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
    Right there is the rub. No one in this DOJ would be allowed to do it. Such an indictment would have to be approved by the AG because of it’s political nature. But under President Harris (or Gillibrand, Castro, Warren, Booker, etc.) Maybe?

  60. 60
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: One can only hope so.

  61. 61
    Immanentize says:

    @WaterGirl:
    I pity you! I know exactly what you mean! Also, the cinnamon krueller is gone here in all the donut shops. No one likes cinnamon any more? Except for one local donut shop in my current town of Medford. Yea, us!

    As for Italian beef, no problem here. My trouble these days is finding dried beef that can be thin sliced for horseradish roll ups.

  62. 62
    Emerald says:

    @Barbara:

    prompting arrest and prosecution whenever they try to travel abroad

    All of ’em. Nielsen, Kelly, Miller, et al. Next time they try to travel abroad they ought to be sent to the Hague. All of ’em. Twitler too, if he escapes jail here.

    Out of everything twitler and his “administration” have done, the child kidnapping will remain a permanent stain on the U.S.A.

  63. 63

    @Gvg:

    Kidnapping is a Federal crime.

    There are both state and federal kidnapping laws. IIRC, the federal laws only relate to transporting a kidnapping victim across state lines.

  64. 64
    Immanentize says:

    @Duane:

    They did it on purpose as a deterrent to stop immigrants from coming here.

    I have been trying to get one of my students to research the double jeopardy ramifications of this. If it was intended to be a deterrent (punishment) then the parents of seized kids should not be able to be tried for illegal entry as they have already been punished. Therefore they would not be able to be tried as felons when/if they re-enter….

  65. 65
    Ksmiami says:

    @smintheus: why is no one suggesting firing squad? Normally I’m anti death penalty, but I could make exceptions for this crowd

  66. 66
    WaterGirl says:

    @Immanentize: No cinnamon kruellers here, either, not even bad ones! it’s either glazed like a glazed donut or it’s covered with a ridiculous amount of chocolate. But dry, dry, dry. Do yours at least have the sort of creamy texture in side, as they should?

  67. 67
    FelonyGovt says:

    This is probably the worst thing of all the horrible things this Administration has done. Which is saying a lot. And none of us are surprised that they lied and the magnitude was much, much greater than they previously admitted.

    I hope people pay for this. Trump, Kelly and Nielsen for starters.

  68. 68
    Immanentize says:

    @WaterGirl: The ones at Demet’s Donuts do!. All the rest are kinda crunchy on the outside and a wasteland inside. Except for the glazed ones which are sometimes just soggy.

  69. 69
    Ol'Froth says:

    I think the judge should order that DHS reunite ALL families within, say, 90 days. If the DHS fails, jail Nielson for contemp. Then, jail her deputy if he or she fails within another 30 days, and keep jailing top DHS officials for contempt until the order is followed. I bet they’d quickly find a way to locate those kids then.

  70. 70
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Immanentize:

    I have been trying to get one of my students to research the double jeopardy ramifications of this. If it was intended to be a deterrent (punishment) then the parents of seized kids should not be able to be tried for illegal entry as they have already been punished. Therefore they would not be able to be tried as felons when/if they re-enter…

    This…sounds like interesting (and timely) research. Hope your student gets on it! (*now wishing I had gone to law school after all, except I bet I would have loved the “school” part and hated the actual “lawyering” part*)

  71. 71
    brantl says:

    @Immanentize:

    ..but you cannot help but root for the Patriots here. Risk of life, etc.

    They cheat, every reason not to root for them, right there.

  72. 72
    WaterGirl says:

    @Immanentize: Soggy is just as bad as dry. How do bakeries not know how to make a krueller??? I clicked your link hoping for at least a photo to gaze at longingly. sniff sniff

  73. 73
    Llelldorin says:

    This is exactly the right idea. Impeachment, not indictment, because impeachment is controlled by the House, not by Whitaker, and Trump can’t pardon someone to protect them from impeachment.

  74. 74
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Immanentize: if there is no controlling authority on this, then I suspect the answer is whatever the appellate court says

  75. 75
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Miss Bianca: I loved law school, but never really liked practicing law (except during the time I was clerking in federal court and working as an ALJ (Fuck Scott Walker)).

  76. 76
    delk says:

    @WaterGirl: which Italian beef place?

  77. 77
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    I have no expertise in this area, but it strikes me that at least some of the kidnapped/abandoned/lost/separated children will experience such psychological trauma that they will eventually act it out in violent crime and terrorism.

  78. 78
    Duane says:

    @Immanentize: Didn’t consider that possibility. ( IANAL.) Every possible opportunity to make Trumpov and his criminal cohorts pay for this should be pursued. They’ve admitted what was done, and it was intentional. If they can get away with this, then there’s no law left. I can just go do whatever the hell I want.

  79. 79
    Miss Bianca says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Self-fulfilling prophecies, in other words. “See! We told you they were dangerous!”

    It takes so few years for a few evil people to fuck things up for so many. “Truth and reconciliation” may not be enough to save the American experiment. : (

  80. 80
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Any chance of nailing Scott Walker on any of the shit he pulled in office? He’s got to have done some actual, blatantly illegal shit.

  81. 81
    laura says:

    @FelonyGovt: And let’s not forget the for-profit angle. Making bank jailing babies and children. Oh, and no background checks for those working for the for-profit baby and child jails -access without oversight.
    The blowback and collateral damage is going to come to us some day.

  82. 82
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Immanentize: Very interesting assignment. My prediction of the result is identical to that of Steve in the ATL.

    @Miss Bianca: @Omnes Omnibus: This week in particular I am decidedly not enjoying practicing law.

  83. 83
    JPL says:

    @joel hanes: That was such a tragic story. You can’t help but weep.

  84. 84
    chromeagnomen says:

    @brantl: this is such bullshit. have you ever read into this whole ‘scandal’. keep jumping higher–you might be able to grab some of those ‘sour’ grapes

  85. 85
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Roger Moore: When you consider that much of the fascist border bullshit is coming from Stephen Miller, it’s hard not to say both feature and don’t care.

  86. 86
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @chromeagnomen:
    Go Rams, beat the MAGAtriots.

  87. 87

    Mr DAW has Trump on our TV being interviewed. I shut the door to my office, but I feel like vomiting. Apparently my reaction to Trump is getting stronger.

  88. 88
    dww44 says:

    @Immanentize: She may well be a monster, but I see her more as a complicit tool apparently lacking a moral compass. I’m not sure how much power she has to make actual policy.

  89. 89
    joel hanes says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Any chance of nailing Scott Walker on any of the shit he pulled in office?

    Wisconsin courts, including the WI Supreme court, are deliberately stacked with partisan wingnuts who protect Republican pols from conviction, Recommended googling :
    “Wisconsin judge Randa”
    “Wisconsin supreme court Fitzgerald”
    “Wisconsin majority leader Fitzgerald”

  90. 90
    joel hanes says:

    anyone else seeing unusually-long loading delays from stackedpathcdn ?

  91. 91
    Immanentize says:

    @brantl:
    “Cheating” is not the reason the Patriots win. But it is the story losers tell themselves for consolation.

  92. 92
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Immanentize: exactly. It’s well established that they win because of the Georgia Bulldogs on the team!

  93. 93
    PPCLI says:

    It should also be remembered that many the lost children have been quietly transferred to well-connected “Christian” adoption agencies like Bethany Christian Services in Grand Rapids, connected to the DeVos family.

  94. 94
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @joel hanes: Always. BJ is a battery eater these days.

  95. 95
    WaterGirl says:

    @delk: Carm’s. First they closed Carm’s, but there were still II and III. Then they closed Carm’s II, but I still had III. Now they are all gone.

  96. 96
    WaterGirl says:

    @joel hanes: Not at the moment, but you are not the only one who gets that error. I, for one, cannot wait for the rebuild.

  97. 97
    debbie says:

    Never mind. Already stated.

  98. 98
    sukabi says:

    I’d suggest that the people responsible for separating families and losing their kids ( and really this is the best possible spin you can use for this inhuman fucked up “policy”) should have their own children removed from their custody until all the immigrant’s children are returned.

    These people clearly don’t have ANY CLUE about proper parenting.

  99. 99
    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Is it any relation to Carmine’s in NYC?

  100. 100
    debbie says:

    Perhaps the Democrats could appropriate $5.7B to expand the data team and fund the analysis.

    Betty, has there been any indication that Democratic leadership has thought of this? I can’t imagine a better counterpoint to Trump’s assholism.

  101. 101
    FelonyGovt says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I never loved practicing law. Looking back it surprises me I lasted as long as I did.

  102. 102
    Sherparick says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Look up the impeachment of Secretary of War Belknap in Grant Administration. However the Senate acquitted him, which means impeachment is about getting the facts out there. If you expect a conviction, you will be disappointed.

  103. 103
    debbie says:

    @PPCLI:

    Time to call in the ICC.

  104. 104
    Greg Ferguson says:

    A true ” R U FUCKING KIDDING ME?” moment. They should all burn in hell…

  105. 105
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: I don’t believe so. These were awesome little decidedly-not-fancy buildings where pretty much all they sold was Italian Beef, hot dogs, etc. Carmine’s looks like it might be a nice place, but a decidedly different style from Carm’s.

    edit: My speculation is that Portillo’s put them out of business, even though Carm’s was easily 10x as good as Portillo’s. We got a Portillo’s here a couple of years ago, and I ate there exactly 3 times. Just not very good.

  106. 106
    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    How would anyone research this? When has this happened before?

  107. 107
    debbie says:

    @Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:

    Even worse, the callousness of Trump supporters. I heard Glenn Beck assure listeners that the children really weren’t little kids because, after all, who would be racing across the desert wearing a diaper? Clearly, they were crisis actors.

  108. 108
    delk says:

    @WaterGirl: Portillo’s is opening their third Chicago location near me. Not a fan—ugh lousy frozen French fries. Only Carm’s I’ve been to is the one on Polk but I’m not sure if they are part of the other Carm’s. Super old school looking place though. When I lived in that area I went to the Patio on Taylor.

    Only been at my new place a year and I’m still working my way through the hole-in-the-wall joints.

  109. 109
    Mary G says:

    More evil, which has been a big story out here in California, but I haven’t seen much in the national papers:

    Two U.S. immigrant rights attorneys and two journalists who have worked closely with members of a migrant caravan in Tijuana said they had been denied entry to Mexico in recent days after their passports were flagged with alerts by an unknown government.

    Their stories are nearly identical: All four report being detained by Mexican immigration authorities while trying to enter the country, and eventually being turned back because the authorities said their passports had been flagged.

    It is unclear which government or governments, if any, might have issued the alerts.

    The U.S. State Department declined to comment Friday, and the Homeland Security Department and Customs and Border Protection did not respond to requests for comment. The Justice Department directed questions to Mexican officials. Representatives of the Mexican government did not respond to requests for comment.

    If that’s not evil, I don’t know what is. And it smells like something Nielsen and Steven Miller cooked up and Pompeo got Mexico to enforce. If immigrants now have to wait in Mexico, and people who effectively help them are denied entry to Mexico, there will be less successful cases for asylum.

    ETA: edited several times for formatting and writing fails

  110. 110
    Betty Cracker says:

    @debbie: If so, I’m not aware of it.

    @WaterGirl: I’ve never been to Chicago, so the thing I call “Italian beef” might be well below local standards. But it’s easy to make in a crockpot!

  111. 111
    Betty says:

    Spread the word!

  112. 112
    rikyrah says:

    That heifer needs to be brought up on charges at The Hague😡😡😡

  113. 113
    rikyrah says:

    Look that all these are circling the crazyfication factor 😒😒

    Chris Lu (@ChrisLu44) Tweeted:
    Tough numbers in new CBS poll:

    38% say Trump has made borders more secure

    29% say he’s reduced influence of lobbyists

    35% are confident in his deal-making abilities

    35% say he’s tried to unify Americans

    27% call him a role model

    https://t.co/SLoAuDeqvg https://twitter.com/ChrisLu44/status/1092108134829694976?s=17

  114. 114

    @WaterGirl: i ate at carmine’s for the first time around thanksgiving, it was pretty good!

  115. 115
    rikyrah says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Never stop reminding us.

  116. 116
    David Evans says:

    It seems to me not beyond the realm of the possible to find out which child belongs to which parents. Start with the ones who are old enough to talk and who know their names. Put video of them on the internet, saying who they are and where they are from. Make sure that any adult immigrants who have been separated can see the video. When any parents think they recognize their children, bring them together, using DNA to check if necessary. Then, for heaven’s sake, offer them long-term visas and set them free. They are owed that and more.

  117. 117
    rikyrah says:

    NBC News (@NBCNews) Tweeted:
    The Russian propaganda machine that tried to influence the 2016 US election is now promoting the presidential aspirations of 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard

    . https://t.co/UmJ8Qc4elk https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1091711348642365444?s=17

  118. 118
    MagdaInBlack says:

    @WaterGirl:
    Ugh @Portillos….and I live in the epicenter.
    Mr. Beef on Harlem, when I’m in the area.
    And Al’s on North Ave in Oak Park .
    Everyone has their fave 😉

  119. 119
    debbie says:

    @rikyrah:

    They’re all appalling, but that statistic about lobbyists just about made my head explode.

  120. 120
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Betty Cracker: But can you make beef on wick for your hubby?

  121. 121
    sukabi says:

    @debbie: with the +/- of the poll that puts it within the crazifacation factor…and his role model number is dead on.

  122. 122
    MagdaInBlack says:

    @rikyrah:
    100% of those watch Fox.

  123. 123
    WaterGirl says:

    @delk: Old school hole-in-the-wall places are the best. Maybe if you go there again, ask if they are part of the other Carm’s Wold love to know that!

    Portillo’s is crap, at least here.

  124. 124
    Mary G says:

    @rikyrah: Those are more like it.

  125. 125
    WaterGirl says:

    @Betty Cracker: What are the spices in yours? Would happily take the recipe, It’s the spicing that either makes it or breaks it. And the meat, but at home you wouldn’t have the crappy thin pieced-together meat that some places use for Italian beef. Do you shred it with a fork or slice it really thin?

  126. 126
    WaterGirl says:

    @Major Major Major Major: From what I saw on-line, I would definitely eat there! Italian food is my #1 choice if I am in a new place and looking for somewhere to eat.

  127. 127
    WaterGirl says:

    @MagdaInBlack: Al’s was my mom’s favorite. So if we got Italian Beef for dinner, I would pick up for her at Al’s on Ogden Ave (I think) and then swing over to Carm’s on 16th St.

  128. 128
    debbie says:

    @WaterGirl:

    Carmine’s was the first family-style restaurant I had ever gone to. Monstrous-sized portions, but probably the best Italian I’ve had, outside of Little Italy (and Italy, of course).

  129. 129
    Mary G says:

    Nancy SMASH catching up to Twitler:

    Favorability Ratings: U.S. Political Leaders

    Favorable/Unfavorable Spread
    Donald Trump 40.4 55.3 -14.9
    Nancy Pelosi 35.3 49.3 -14.0
    Mitch McConnell 23.8 45.4 -21.6
    Chuck Schumer 29.0 41.8 -12.8

  130. 130

    Impeach, my ass. Bring to the Hague for a trial on war crimes.

    But I guess we have to impeach her first.

  131. 131
    rikyrah says:

    Peter Daou (@peterdaou) Tweeted:
    “MOVING LEFT”

    When Dems move to the left, they want a fair economy, universal health care, a clean environment, and fewer gun deaths.

    When Republicans move to the right they embrace racists and xenophobes.

    See the difference, @HowardSchultz?

    #MedicareForAll #GreenNewDeal https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1092058073286488064?s=17

  132. 132
    WaterGirl says:

    @debbie: Wow, does that ever sound good.

  133. 133
    Mary G says:

    Not a surprise:

    SCOOP: A White House source has leaked Trump’s private schedules to me for nearly every day for the last few months. POTUS has spent 60% of his working days in “Executive Time,” and more on what the skeds tell us on @axios https://t.co/fnNsqEuURW— Alexi McCammond (@alexi) February 3, 2019

  134. 134
    Raven says:

    @delk: They started out in Villa Park but when I was a kid we went to Poodles on St Charles road. When we were broke we got “gravy” sammy’s”.

  135. 135
    sukabi says:

    @Mary G: that’s the setup for all the WH aids to take the fall for all the “policies” coming out of the WH, drumpf won’t take responsibility because HE hasn’t actually been working.

  136. 136
    Ruckus says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    To Ace Hardware each one of those nails had more value than any one of these kids have to this administration.
    Actually, as these asswipes view this, that nail actually has value, while each of those human beings that they just threw away is a cost factor, a negative value.

  137. 137
    delk says:

    @Raven: Gravy Bread Is a buck at the Patio.

  138. 138
    Ruckus says:

    @Ksmiami:
    No firing squads. No death penalty. We have to be better than that.
    Make them sit in jail for a couple decades minimum, give them time to think about what they’ve done. I’d prefer solitary and nothing but cheap cheese on white bread for every meal but that’s just me. Their money won’t do anything for them, in fact they should be left with nothing, so monetary forfeiture as well. I could even see a loss of citizenship as rethugs have been doing for decades. As it says in a book somewhere, “Do unto them as they have done unto others.”

  139. 139
  140. 140
    Sebastian says:

    @Immanentize:

    I politely disagree. If you had grown up in midst of Holocaust survivors,volunteered at Simon Wiesenthal Foundation, and generally spent your youth examining the rise of National Socialism your view would differ. I don’t blame you or wish to accuse you of naïveté. I highly recommend looking up the banality of evil.

    https://aeon.co/ideas/what-did-hannah-arendt-really-mean-by-the-banality-of-evil

    These people are going to exterminate all of us given the chance. Honestly, I am astounded by the denial of American willingness to genocide despite historical and more or less recent examples.

  141. 141
    rikyrah says:

    ReclaimingMyTime (@MonieTalks_1) Tweeted:
    @Dander_Bogaerts Secondly. Virginia’s transformation to a “blue” state is because of a diverse, non-white population making it that way. Statewide Democratic politicians do NOT win of the strength of white voters. Even after Northam made gains in 2017, he still lost the overall white vote.

    https://twitter.com/MonieTalks_1/status/1092092231538872320?s=17

  142. 142
    rikyrah says:

    @rikyrah:

    ReclaimingMyTime (@MonieTalks_1) Tweeted:
    @Dander_Bogaerts What I need people outside of Virginia to understand is that the voters responsible for making Virginia “blue” and are determined to keep it that way…can still do so without Northam…because we are the ones who put him there, and not the other way around.

    https://twitter.com/MonieTalks_1/status/1092092728782082049?s=17

  143. 143
    debbie says:

    @Sebastian:

    I agree with you. Nazis weren’t born Nazis, but it doesn’t take much to get them there. People don’t think it can happen again because they believe people are good at heart. That’s the real error.

  144. 144
    But her emails!!! says:

    @rikyrah:
    That’s a relief. Nobody tell Vlad that she doesn’t have an ice crystal’s chance in hell of winning the nomination.

  145. 145
    Sebastian says:

    @debbie:

    Exactly. It cannot happen here.

    Jews in Germany thought the same thing until it was too late.

  146. 146

    OT: Beautiful music for your Sunday
    RIMIM Awards for this year are out. I am listening to their album of the year winner.
    Manmarziyaan. (Heart’s desires). Another feather in Amit Trivedi’s cap.

  147. 147
    Lyrebird says:

    @Immanentize: Did you see the article in the Daily Beast dragging out all the pre-election ties between tRump and Belichik (sp?) etc? With zero mention of Brady toning down politics, speaking up for his fellow players’ right to kneel, etc? (Here is a NESN link with excerpts.) Zero mention of the leadership of various African American Patriots on opposing the maladministration?

    It would make more sense if the writer were a paid troll or a bot.

    Even Popehat says, “I hate the Patriots but I don’t like Daily Beast unhinged 5150-bait hate them.”

  148. 148

    @debbie: @Sebastian: FWIW I agree with the two of you. I have been unfortunate enough to be a witness to a period of great horror when genocidal violence engulfed the city of my birth (Mumbai) in the early nineties.
    ETA: I never thought it would happen in Mumbai, but it did.

  149. 149
    Fleeting Expletive says:

    Both my kids thought it would be fun to hide from Mom at the Walmart when they were little–scared the hell out of me of course, so we rehearsed what to do if they got lost, etc. That sense of utter panic when your kid’s not there is so terrifying, to have scary people just snatching your kid away from you, yelling in a foreign language, forcefully going through this–this intentional torture will have to be answered with calm but unrelenting truth and prosecution. Mete out condign punishment to those who conceived, implemented and continue to tolerate this massive abuse.

    As to Northam, people who had trusted him and had faith in him cannot do so now. especially POC who had taken a leap of faith to work and vote for him, they put in their time. Like learning a spouse has an STD after a business trip and you don’t. (My first ex did that). There is no possibility of trust after that, good guy otherwise or not.

    Also, Northam really botched the aftermath, whether or not the picture is him. The penance for his handling of it should be the loss of the privilege of being a governor.

  150. 150

    @Achrachno:

    Is prosecution under state kidnapping laws possible?

    IANAL, but I would be astonished if it were possible to indict anyone in the administration or ICE purely on these policies. Something they did that was not policy while enforcing those policies, maybe. There aren’t a whole lot of laws to punish people for making evil political policies. Overturn them, yes. Common sense definitions of things like kidnapping, murder, and fraud are not necessarily legal definitions.

  151. 151
    Mnemosyne says:

    I’ve said this before: not keeping records is part of the plan.

    They know that the Nazis were successfully prosecuted based on the meticulous records they kept, so Nielsen and Kelly decided to keep no records to make it more difficult to prosecute them.

    They know that what they’re doing is a crime against humanity and they. don’t. care.

  152. 152
    joel hanes says:

    @debbie:

    People don’t think it can happen again because they believe people are good at heart. That’s the real error.

    As Hannah Arendt wrote, many of the “good at heart” people of Germany tacitly enabled the Nazis. Their complicity was not because they were secretly bad-hearted; it was because humans have a very strong need to conform to the behaviors of high-status members of their community. “That nice Herr Knecht goes on as if this is nothing very bad, and he is very respectable and honest and always goes to Kirche. It must be OK.”

    This is what’s known as the banality of evil.
    And that’s how IA Rep Steve King keeps getting re-elected.

  153. 153

    @Mnemosyne: Yes it was all according to plan. Kelly unveiled this plan when he was still the head of the DHS. And he still kept getting tongue baths after that in the media and here too for being one of the more responsible of T’s appointees.

  154. 154
    rikyrah says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    You are on the money.

  155. 155

    Separating children from their parents as a deterrent against immigration had been Kelly’s plan from at least March 2017

  156. 156
    debbie says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I think I remember the violence you’re talking about, and I was horrified that it could happen there. All I had known about India was a past roommate’s adoration of the place after spending a semester there.

  157. 157
    debbie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I bet there are records somewhere. There is no greater trophy than records.

  158. 158
    debbie says:

    @joel hanes:

    Yep, complicity is key. If I ever speak to my brothers again, it will be to scream that word in their faces, over and over.

  159. 159
    Sebastian says:

    @joel hanes:

    Absolutely correct. To quote:

    In The Origins of Totalitarianism (1951), published well before the Eichmann trial, Arendt said:

    It is inherent in our entire [Western] philosophical tradition that we cannot conceive of a ‘radical evil’…

  160. 160
    opiejeanne says:

    @joel hanes: This explanation of the “banality of evil” describes so very well the yard posters one neighbor puts up. She knows them from her paving/concrete business back in the day, or they go to her church. As they are white they are autmatically People Like Her, and l they must possess those same virtues.

    Two guys running for seats on the local water board ran accusing the sitting board of some conspiracy to do something bad, collect data or spy on the customers. I think it might have been the proposal to install new meters that can be read for billing purposes by a device in a car driving by. It might have been something about fluoride, I just can’t keep track of which nut-case says what, but these two guys were totally loony tunes. She told me she’d done some concrete work for each of them about 30 years prior.

  161. 161
    Hope Aldrich says:

    https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2018/06/19/immigrant-children-ripped-from-families-land-in-michigan-heres-how-to-help

    There was another Detroit Free Press article about a social services worker being interviewed by one of their reporters. I could not find it, The reporter asked the social worker what was going to happen to the infants that were sent here. Her answer was “They will be put in foster care and then be adopted.”

    They could never ever pay me enough money to be this social worker.

  162. 162
    SWMBO says:

    @debbie: Prosecute them for fraud. If they got paid for caring for X number of kids, make them prove they weren’t just defrauding the government for imaginary kids. They were getting $775 per DAY to care for these kids. Make them prove it wasn’t total fraud. They have to come up with records or get imprisoned for fraud. Mueller (that name again!) busted mob families for less. And won.

  163. 163

    @debbie: Unfortunately, India has been the scene of great tragedy and death, since the British decided to “civilize” it.

  164. 164
    Yutsano says:

    Drag her ass into hearings. Over and over again. And make her squirm with every question and subpoena for evidence. Oversight needs to do its job here and I think they’re up to the task.

  165. 165
  166. 166
    sukabi says:

    @Hope Aldrich: for an adoption to be legal don’t the parents have to relinquish their parental rights? Kidnapping a kid and “losing” them in the system wouldn’t qualify as parental consent.

  167. 167

    […] Well, first things first. Via NBC News: The Trump administration said in a court filing that reuniting thousands of migrant children separated from their parents or guardians at the U.S.-Mexico border may not be “within the realm of the possible.” The filing …Read More […]

  168. 168
    HRA says:

    @sukabi:

    I could envision they would try to get around it in certain scenarios. “The parents did not ask for their children or tried to find them.” “The parents went back to their country and deserted their child.” I would put nothing past those who executed this horrific plan.

  169. 169
    J R in WV says:

    @Roger Moore:

    …a way of providing children to people who want to adopt procure very young servant slaves to work keeping things just as monster-mom directs, on pain of torture.

    Fixed that for you.

    I think the first people indicted for kidnapping should be the hand-on “officers” who actually laid hands upon the stolen children and led them away, or carried them away from a parent and were paid to do so. I’m pretty sure kidnapping for hire is an additional layer of criminality.

    Then the persons who directed those individuals who were hand-on child stealers to do so. All the way up the chain of command to Kelly and his — whatgever she is to him — Kirsten “Eva Braun” Nielsen. There’s a super-storm of criminality involved, and every one of these government monsters should be indicted for every possible crime — child abuse, human trafficking for profit, slavery, in fact.

  170. 170
    J R in WV says:

    And furthermore, every day those kids are illegally held apart from their parent(s) is another crime, so that the statue of limitations begins to toll again, each day of the ongoing criminal conspiracy.

    Horrible, ongoing criminal enterprise from the person removing the children from their family to the person currently holding the children in illegal captivity.

    IANAL, I’m just expressing my hope and wish that this situation will unfold to hold the criminals responsible, and to force them to disgorge all information necessary to locate, identify and repatriate the children to their families. Here in the US where the criminal conspiracy tool place.

  171. 171
    WaterGirl says:

    @J R in WV: Why can’t they ask every single person who either adopted or is fostering these children, or who works in any place that is sheltering these children, to come forward with the kids so they can be identified and reunited with their families?

    Here’s a hint: if you have a brown baby/child that wasn’t born to you or your spouse or anyone in your family, and arrived in the matching timeframe, come forward.

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