Thought I would share my early thoughts on who I like to be President based on what I think they stand for- not all of these people have announced (denoted by an *):
Tier 1:
Sherrod Brown*
Stacy Abrams*
Andrew Gillum*
Amy Klobuchar*
Pete Buttigieg
Tier 2:
Castro
Harris
Gillibrand
Elizabeth Warren
Tier 3:
Sanders*
Beto*
Biden
Booker
Tier 4:
John Delaney
Tier Just Fuck Right Off:
Gabbard
Schultz
There is no real deep thought put into this, there is not much information on the candidate pages and it is way early. Just my general feelings. Tier 1 are obviously the people I would crawl over broken glass to vote for (Buttigieg is young and will probably go nowhere but I like the cut of his gib jib). Passion wanes the lower the tiers go. I really like Harris a lot, but I just don’t like the progressive prosecutor positioning you weren’t, really- just be who you are, which is pretty awesome! Warren is a touch old even though she looks 50, and I worry about Gillibrand being too moderate.
Beto, Sanders, and Biden are weird- obviously I would vote for them, but Beto just seems out there and I’m not sure what he is up to, Biden is too old and too compromised and too moderate, and Sanders is too damned old and I don’t want to live through 2016 and then the general campaign red-baiting and I don’t think the AA community has bought into him still, so what’s the point.
Again, these are just rough opinions based on not much but the gut, and as you all know, give me an hour and I’ll change them.
*** Update ***
I forgot Booker. I fear he may be too beholden to corporate interests.
Baud
Sanders would be a bit lower on my list.
Kirk Spencer
huh.
For me, move Warren and Harris to tier 1, Brown and Klobuchar to tier 2, and Sanders joins Gabbard and Schultz.
PsiFighter37
Bernie belongs in the GTFO tier.
NotMax
Jib, baby, jib.
Also too, if this number of candidates isn't enough for you, as said on TV, don't worry, they'll make more.
John Cole
@Kirk Spencer: Tier two is really the tier one, as tier one is sort of my dream candidates. If that makes any sense.
John Cole
@NotMax: It’s a soft g, like .gif.
*RUNS AWAY*
Another Scott
Weird groupings, but that’s ok.
I’ve donated to Warren and Harris. That’s probably it for a while.
Someone here posts to dead threads arguing that Brown must stay in the Senate and makes a good case. We all know how critical it is.
And Wilmer can just fade away and keep his poiny-fingered shouty grifting and bomb throwing to himself, TYVM.
Looking forward to the debates.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
PaulWartenberg
I have to admit I’d put Harris ahead of Abrams if only because Kamala has a more prominent national profile.
I really don’t want Bernie winning: he’s acting like an asshole in that he isn’t a full member of the Democratic Party but wants all of the damn perks without paying his dues… but I dread the reaction of the BernieBros refusing to show up at the ballots again in 2020.
Ferdinand
Booker?
NotMax
Never understood the Klobuchar love (Maddow breaks out in the vapors every time Amy K. running is so much as mentioned). While it’s not a full face portrait, fairly sure that’s her silhouette next to wishy-washy in the dictionary.
Tommy Green
@John Cole: Ha! Brings back memories of when we used to argue about IMPORTANT stuff, like when to save as GIF vs JPEG (or is that JPG?)…
It IS pleasant to contemplate the wonderful choices we have. I’d like to know more about Klobucher (sp?). Seems interesting. Agree that Harris should just let her freak fly. Not my cup of tea, but to thine own self (and voters) be true.
The Dangerman
Sanders should be a FRO. Too much more and Biden joins him (Biden would have beaten Trump in 2016 but water/bridge).
I’d put Abrams, Gillum, and Beto in a special tier (interesting, but they all lost).
Never heard of Buttigieg and too early to Google.
PaulWartenberg
Gillum’s got to survive DeSantis’ ethics charges first. I still think Gillum should try for the Governor’s seat again.
scottinnj
I’d move Biden up a bit. The next President is really going to have to mend bridges internationally and I think he’d be best placed to do that. At this stage I admit I’ve not heard much from say Harris or Klobucher.
As it relates to matters domestic (voting rights, income inequality, tax overhaul, healthcare)..I don’t think the POTUS is completely irrelevant. That said what will get signed into law isn’t Booker/Harris/Warren want to sign, but whatever is the most progressive legislation Chuck Schumer can get 50 votes (plus the VP) through the Senate. And that assumes he is willing to totally nuke the filibuster – be careful what you ash flor. I don’t see any POTUS not signing what he can get through the Senate, even a more possibly squishy Wall Street friendly name like say Booker or Gillebrand.
tl:dr: Any of the names are massively better than DJT, but it is the Senate where the real battle will be. Pick the candidate who is least likely to blow up the world.
WaterGirl
Why doesn’t Sanders Just Fuck Right Off?
PaulWartenberg
Right now, my dream Democratic ticket would be Harris/Brown. But I wanna make sure we win the Senate back from McConnell because DAMMIT he’s a bigger threat than trump.
Rivers
Why did you leave Booker out – he declared yesterday
PaulWartenberg
@WaterGirl:
because he’s an ambitious fuck who lives on an unjustified reputation as a SOCIALIST REFORMER and has enough of a fanbase to cause heartache for the actual Democrats who are in the party.
NotMax
@John Cole
(The following quip works better verbally.) Oh, short for Jraphical Interchange Format.
(Whereas, as the joke goes, jpg stands for Just Porn, Gentlemen.)
Rivers
Booker declared yesterday with a good video
Dorothy A. Winsor
@NotMax: I think Klobuchar would be good on policy, but I don’t think she’s good on, for want of a better word, inspiration, and I think maybe a leader needs to be a bit more inspiring.
Suzanne
I am decidedly meh on Sherrod Brown, he can STFU about the dignity of work. Love Abrams and Harris. I put Beto higher because I think he does a great job turning negatives into positives.
I have no use for Biden or Bernie this time.
Sebastian
Once Roger Stone’s Franken ratfuck comes to light Gillibrand will be toast because she fell for such an obvious move. She might hang on to her Senate seat but she won’t recover from that.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@scottinnj: I look at Biden and I see the past. I do NOT want him to be our candidate.
Suzanne
I should note that I forgot about Klobuchar in my previous comment and that strikes me as incredibly telling.
eemom
For fuck’s sake Cole, how could you put Biden and Beto on the same level as Wilmer?
Sebastian
@WaterGirl:
Yeah. He belongs in that bucket of egomaniacs and Russian ratfuckers. Conveniently, he checks both requirements.
Ohio Mom
I didn’t think this a few weeks ago but Sherrod Brown has grown into being my favorite too.
I think he’s smart, well read, extremely pragmatic, and steady — he has a no-drama personality. I could use some calm in the White House.
Brickley Paiste
2020 is not the time to run a white person, especially not a white guy.
We need to listen to the black women.
Kirk Spencer
@John Cole: Yep, makes sense. Even for dreams, though, I still would put Warren and Harris above Brown and Klobuchar.
You know, while writing that I started to think about the objections I’ve heard and while I’m willing to be educated further I want to note. Harris, Brown, and Klobuchar all have done something that some slice of our side dislikes. (Possible looking away from prosecutorial misconduct, support of tariffs and the PIPA, [edit: delete the next – I confused Klobuchar and Gillibrand] and being the lead on the Franken issue respectively [end delete]). For Warren all I’ve seen are ‘too old’ and ‘easy attack with the native American deal.’
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
Every time I’ve heard her speak at any length she’s struck me as a centrist designed by a committee.
kindness
I would favor the tier 2 list over the tier 1. My reasons are I think the tier 2 candidates are more electable nationally (in the general election). I do like the tier 1 peoples, don’t get me wrong.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: I love Sherrod Brown, but I cringe every single time I see: Dignity of Work. That’s as bad as the Dem slogan from last time around, which was so cringe-worthy that I have (blissfully) forgotten exactly what it was.
Baud
I was disappointed to hear Brown go all Wimer recently.
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/428040-sherrod-brown-pitches-economic-message-in-trip-to-iowa-democrats-simply-arent
WaterGirl
@Kirk Spencer: Did you really mean Klobuchar, or did you mean Kirsten G?
Kirk Spencer
@WaterGirl: heh – was editing my post as you wrote this. Yep.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Ugh for two reasons, even though I like Sherrod Brown:
1. What he said is just not true, and parrots Wilmer
2. What he means is WHITE working class families, because as far as I can see, Democrats are most surely listening to black people, especially black women. Reason #2 that makes that comment offensive.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Not to mention way too reminiscent of Arbeit Mach Frei.
The Dangerman
I’m not saying this will happen. I would put the odds at slightly better than snowballs chance in hell…
….but what if Mueller blows up Trump/Pence and we get Pelosi 2019?
Sure, we’ll be too busy cleaning up the mess after all the RWNJ’s heads explode, but … Mueller is still out there and hasn’t sung yet (this goes back to the Dick Motta Quote that I won’t post as it’s a bit insensitive).
debbie
@Another Scott:
Sherrod’s already started moderating his stance on tariffs:
He may have a better shot at appealing to Trump voters than other Democratic candidates, but that doesn’t mean there’s much of a chance of success.
NotMax
@NotMax
No edit.
Macht.
scott (the other one)
No no no no a thousand times no to Brown.
It does not matter how good a candidate for president he is – – he is 1000 times more valuable in the Senate than he is in the White House.
He will be, at best, a little bit better than some of the other candidates, and I’m not even sure of that.
But none of that matters: it doesn’t really matter how good a president he is if he can’t get legislation or nominees through. And since his seat will flip to a republican if he wins the White House – – or, worse, becomes Vice President – – it simply isn’t even remotely worth it. Not when there are so many other candidates who are also so very good.
scottinnj
@Another Scott: Basically the DEMS need to flip 4 GOP Senate seats to get to 50/50 (47 DEM today, and Doug Jones will surely lose in Alabama against any non-pedophile GOP candidate). AZ and CO are good, and let’s grant Stacey Abrams in GA (though I think the GOV will turn up supression to 11, so no slam dunk). That means you need 1 of NC/ME/AK or MT. That may be doable, but no slam dunk. You think the GOP played suppression card in 2018? you aint seen nothing yet. Lose Brown’s seat, then you need 2 of NC/ME/AK/MT. That Brown’s coattails in OH didn’t bring Coudray over the line for OH GOV is diqualifying. I like Brown a lot, but have to play the hand you are dealt.
debbie
@debbie:
I can’t seem to edit me, but I wanted to add that last night, I listened to a local GOP talking head insist that Brown is a blue dog. And so the framing begins.
Eric U.
@Baud: Sanders is definitely in Tier Fuck Right Off for me. I don’t know why there wasn’t more outcry about his racist and misogynistic statement about the other candidates. It’s disqualifying
Joe Falco
Bernie is on my Not a Democrat tier. It’s slightly below the same GTFO tier I place Gabbard on because at least Gabbard is a Democrat. It’s an important difference to me.
Anyway, I’m all for Stacey Abrams if she were to run. Elizabeth Warren would be a close 2nd for me.
Brickley Paiste
@WaterGirl:
Exactly. Democrats need to focus their efforts on getting the votes of black women. They are the key to electoral victory. And it’s just the RIGHT thing to do.
With the caveat that no matter who is the D candidate – even if its Brown, Sanders, anyone – I will work to get them elected.
rikyrah
@Baud:
That was a wrap for me and Brown.
Already told you, he had no coattails in 2018.?
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Come on, Cole. Don’t buy into the Wilmerites spin on Kamala.
Harris actually IS being who she is. Which is a fierce and earnest do-gooder who takes a professional approach to reforming government “from the inside”.
NotMax
Fasten your seat belts, it’s going to be a bumpy year.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: oh boy, that sounds like someone’s getting a little messianic
also, what is the point of this?
Brown’s been in politics long enough to know what kind of gossipy questions this is going to bring up. The “I’ll leave it at that” just makes sure people know he wasn’t just talking.
Ohio Mom
@WaterGirl: Sherrod Brown emphasizes that whatever goes for white workers, is worse for Black workers because they get paid less and have less opportunity. He’s not dog whistling but I get why people think he is.
He’s too subtle and nuanced. For example, people jump on some of the things he’s said about trade, but he wrote a book about trade, he is extremely well-versed on the issues. Which never leads to bumper sticker-type memes.
And the Dignity of Work slogan is a riff on MLK’s “All labor has dignity.” I agree it sounds corny but I like the fact he’s not slick.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: “Dignity of work” is absolutely the worst branding for shitty jobs that I have ever heard, and it is such a page out of the GOP playbook. They loooooove to portray Dems and especially minorities as lazy welfare moochers, when they are the lazy, entitled pieces of shit. The fact that any Dem would rhetorically adopt that framing is terrible.
This is where Beto shines, in my view. His response to the question about the anthem protests, about how there is nothing more American than protesting for your rights, is a perfect example of not ceding an iota of ground, even rhetorical ground. I want full-throated defense of what we believe in, because we are the party of American values. Brown needs to STFU with this.
geg6
No Booker at all? Worse than Gabbard or Sanders? Is that what you’re saying?
Brickley Paiste
@Suzanne:
Dignity of work/labor is a powerful and important idea that needs to be in the foreground of progressive democratic thought. Here is some writing on the topic at another site: http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/?s=dignity+of+work
That said, it blows as a campaign slogan.
Sab
@scott (the other one): As an OhioanI love Brown and have for many years, but he needs to stay in the Senate. There isn’t anyone close to his caliber that could replace him as Senator, and there are a number of good people looking at a presidential run.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Suzanne: I heard a couple of interviews where he just jams it into his response to every question and it sounds… not good.
NotMax
@Suzanne
There’s a lot of good to be said of (and in) Brown, but he’s long been stuck in “un-rust the Rust Belt” mode. As with coal miners, those jobs are gone, they ain’t coming back.
Suzanne
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: The other thing about the lefty whining about Kamala Harris is that we tell the Right that they need to suck up their personal views and do their jobs in accordance with the law……when we like the law. See Kim Davis, wedding cake bakers, Tim Kaine’s comments about his personal views on abortion, pharmacists, etc. I have zero respect for those who stand outside and complain that things should be different but who don’t actually work to change things. Kamala Harris has done more to advance progressive goals than Bernie has.
trollhattan
@NotMax:
Stolen for future use. Now consider the age-old question: “jpg or RAW?”
So many of the announced, and the pondering for that matter, I need to get better acquainted with before even a binary yes/no much less rank-order the lot. re. Brown, has he squared the circle yet on his tariff-philia? That frankly is one of the only things I know about him.
Suppose Warren leads for now, based on her appearances and very concise policy positions (“Thanks, professor.”)
StringOnAStick
My devices that know I live in CO are filled with Hickenlooper ads for his possible POTUS run. With the goofy tag line of “giddy up!” and pushing a huge centrist meme. He was an OK governor, not my favorite but I’ve lived through some serious RW nutjob governors here so he was better than that (our new Gov., Polis is great). Go away Hick, you’re “can’t we all just get along” buddy movie with Kasich is completely disqualifying this election cycle.
Good news: Mike Johnson, who I really liked for governor here last time (I was afraid an out, married gay guy like Polis wouldn’t survive the rural areas and we’d get the utter loon the GOP ran) has announced he is running against Cory Gardner, the R Senatoad who made a public announcement of supporting tRump for 2020 just this last week. He got a congratulatory tweet from tRump, so worth it I guess? Ugh. Gardner is toast, and I will be working to make sure Mike Johnson is elected.
Gravenstone
@Sebastian: You mean other than the fact that all the female Dem senators (including Harris) pushed for his resignation? They decided amongst themselves that Gillibrand would be the first to speak publicly and thus become the face of the movement. But sure, go on with your butthurt.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Another Scott:
LOL. I swear, the finger-wagging and shouting is the image I always have of Sanders. An asshole blowhard, in other words.
I too think Brown should remain in the Senate. That’s a seat that would be difficult to keep. Ohio is no longer a swing state and isn’t needed to win the presidency.
Baud
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
At some point, I assume I’ll hear about an actual allegation of misconduct by her that is supported by persusive evidence. Or are we going to keep talking in abstractions. (This is not directed at you.)
geg6
For me, as of right now and I acknowledge I am open to others who convince me, it’s Booker at the top. Harris and Warren would be my second tier. Everybody else is third tier. With the exceptions of Gabbard and Sanders, who can both fuck right the fuck off.
Cheryl from Maryland
So far I Iike Harris the best. She is the most inspiring on reforming from the inside and has been so throughout her career. I also haven’t heard her disparage her opponents; why help the GOP? I’m not in favor of anyone who wants to blow the whole thing up — I’ve had enough of candidates on both sides who channel the Joker. That’s partially why Buttigieg leaves me cold – most of his rationale for election is that it’s time for a generational change.
Baud
@geg6: No Inslee either.
NotMax
@trollhattan
.png, .TIF and .bmp on lines one and two and three, respectively.
:)
trollhattan
@StringOnAStick:
Hickenlooper does a good interview, and that’s the extent of my knowledge. Ben Sasse does a good interview, too, eroding the value of my opinion based on the metric.
schrodingers_cat
Why is Beto weird? All the attacks by the MSM seem to have worked.
Also hell no to the sage of Vt.
Gravenstone
@trollhattan:
Try lube next time.
trollhattan
@NotMax:
My back feels really TIF this morning.
Mandalay
Abrams then daylight for me, but she has already ruled out running for president. I think her goal is the Senate seat of the odious David Perdue in 2020.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Baud: Just like with Hillary, right? Where there’s smoke, there’s fire?
Immanentize
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Biden is a part of my sentimental past and not my future life. He Sparks no Joy.
trollhattan
@schrodingers_cat:
Beto skateboarded my lawn.
Baud
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: so many clouds and shadows.
BR
Gut feelings are pretty important. Here’s where I’m at right now:
Tier 1:
Warren
Abrams*
Klobuchar*
Tier 2:
Harris
Beto
Tier 3:
Brown*
I just realized that I’d love to see Warren/Klobuchar or Warren/Abrams or some ticket like that. Really speaking I wish Jerry Brown were 20 years younger and could run, because he has something to offer that I don’t see much of right now — an ability to keep eyes on big picture, major investments while also handling the day-to-day political brawl.
geg6
@Mandalay:
I so want to see her in the Senate. I hope she goes for it. The party seems to be grooming her for it and I approve!
Brickley Paiste
@Baud:
There’s really no question that Harris was a run of the mill asshole prosecutor (with the exception of her stand against the death penalty) but here’s the thing 1) she doesn’t really believe that shit – she was just saying what she needed to say to stay in the job and advance up the political ladder and 2) it may actually help her with “law and order” type voters.
Harris is keenly aware of the latter as her campaign slogan is “For the People” which has one meaning on first glance and an entirely different one when you realize it is how she, as a prosecutor, identified herself.
Very smart positioning on her part.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
It’s an odd list. Personally, I would put Harris and Warren in the first tier. Beto would also. Stacy Abrams is awesome and should be governor of Georgia right now. She’d be great in the Senate too! Brown would probably tier 2; I’d still vote for him if I had to, along with Gillibrand, if only because I don’t know her that well.
Sanders would go into Tier Just Fuck Right Off along with Gabbard and Sgt. Schultz
NotMax
@trollhattan
The medium is the massage.
;)
Baud
While I agree that Shultz should JFRO, it’s weird to put someone on the list who isn’t running in our primary.
Ohio Mom
I will say this about Sherrod not having coattails re: Cordray.
Providing a coat tail for him was an impossibly heavy lift; remember, Sherrod was the only Democrat to win a state wide seat. Somehow, Sherrod excited a lot of voters who otherwise voted Republican.
Also, I was not impressed with what I saw of Cordray’s campaign. It was rather lackluster, at least in my end of the state.
Now as much as I like Brown, I think he is a dark horse, at least now. I do worry that he is being painted as a blue dog when he is anything but. I think we all have to work hard from falling for memes from questionable sources.
Suzanne
@Immanentize:
Win.
schrodingers_cat
@trollhattan: Was he too close to the willow.
trollhattan
@NotMax:
Heh. A medium that’s rarely well-done.
Chyron HR
@debbie:
Oh, well, if he was only in favor of destroying the US economy BEFORE he was against it…
geg6
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
I won’t even consider Schultz as an option. He’s said he’s running as an indy and so I don’t need to consider him. I’m voting for the Dem even if it’s someone like Gillibrand, who I don’t much like. I’d have to think long and hard about what I’d do if something crazy happens and Sanders or Gabbard got the nomination. Try to run off to Canada, probably.
trollhattan
@schrodingers_cat:
Hey, no fair hacking into my security cam!
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
I’m dropping this here as it’s the newest thread—
Here, with her permission, from CZanne’s Twitter feed is her late niece’s school, in case anyone would like to make a donation in her memory: Savannah-Chatham STEM Academy. She mentions her niece as Brooke M, for the sake of family privacy on Twitter, but I imagine, in the circumstances, the school will recognize who that is.
trollhattan
@geg6:
Methinks the faux billionaire has spoiled things for actual billionaires for this cycle. Schultz is a non-starter.
Maybe he and Wilmer start their own party comprising annoying New Yorkers. They can have yell-fest debates. Invite the president* to make things interesting.
Amir Khalid
I would have waited for a candidate to declare before ranking them. I agree with @Ferdinand: Where is Cory Booker? Wilmer isn’t even a Democrat, and thus belongs on the JFRO tier with Gabbard and Schultz. I see little that stands out about John Delaney; his campaign website is all about what a nice guy he is, and screams “early washout” to me. Buttigieg’s mayoral record is promising; but he needs to lay out his national agenda, and his nationwide appeal remains to be seen.
I would rank the candidates thus.
Tier 1: Probables
Castro
Harris
Gillibrand
Elizabeth Warren
Cory Booker
Tier2: Possibles
Joe Biden
Pete Buttigieg
John Delaney
Tier 3: Unacceptables
Wilmer
Mr. Coffee
Tulsi Gabbard
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: Yeah, wherever they poll tested Dignity of Work… they should have tested somewhere else.
I love that about Beto, too. I see people dismissing him because he’s taking his time about deciding whether to get into the race. If people followed him on his twitter feed in the senate race, they would know that he give it everything. Everything. He kept going and going and going and still he comported himself really well, even though he had to be exhausted physically, emotionally and mentally. How we are under pressure says a lot about us, and he did great.
If you understand just how hard he pushed himself during the campaign, it’s totally understandable that he would need time to decompress and accept the loss and, well, recover from the months of pushing so hard.
I love that Beto says “yeah, the conventional wisdom is that I need to make a decision and announce it now, but these are not conventional times, so all the rules don’t matter anymore”. He is his own man, comfortable in his own skin, just as Barack Obama is. I think Beto is destined for great things, assuming he doesn’t derail himself by making some rookie move.
My hope at this point is that he is snapped up by someone as a running mate, and he’s young enough to learn a hell of a lot in 4-8 years as VP, and still be young enough to be an excellent choice for President. If any of the top tier people (my list, not Cole’s) gets the nomination, I think the combination of that person and Beto would be unbeatable.
Sorry, did not mean to go on and on about Beto.
schrodingers_cat
Not a fan of protectionism whether it comes from Ds or Rs. So no to Sherrod.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I liked this
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: Of all the names above, I like Beto the best. Of all the names who have announced I like Kamala Harris the best. She reminds me of the tough no nonsense women like my mother and grandmother, who navigated the patriarchal societies they were born in on their own terms by being their own women.
geg6
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Yes, I like it, too.
Brachiator
Too early for me to pay too much attention or to have any preference. They all seem pretty good.
Except Sanders. Fuck him.
When is the first primary?
schrodingers_cat
Biden is so yesterday. Also, Butt who?
e julius drivingstorm
@scottinnj:
I like that Abrams scenario. Her senate run could pull the democratic presidential nominee across the finish line in Georgia, especially if Gillum is tabbed as VP candidate. I’m just glad so many people outside the south have noticed how impressive these two are.
trollhattan
@WaterGirl:
In addition to everything you list, losing to odious Ted Cruz makes it that much worse to digest. Ah, Texas.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@geg6:
Yeah about Schultz. I really hope he drops out soon.
There was some polling that showed he would take more Dem votes in an election than Republican ones and give Trump a plurality. Still early days, but that gave me pause.
Berniecouldawon couldn’t even poll even alongside Trump with Scultz in the running.
schrodingers_cat
Oh and I live in BS country, less than half an hour’s drive from the Vt border. My town voted for BS in the last primary season. This time around there is decidedly less enthusiasm about him. Warren is siphoning off that support.
delk
@NotMax: Jib is one of the contenders for my next dog’s name.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@schrodingers_cat:
The old fool apparently doesn’t see that Warren is going to probably kill him. Too arrogant and entitled.
NotMax
Pete Buttigieg, the Larry Agran of the 21st century. (Look it up.)
Amir Khalid
@schrodingers_cat:
Peter Buttigieg is the mayor of South Bend, Indiana.
Suzanne
@WaterGirl: I admire all of that in Beto, as well.
I also don’t like the response I have seen out of some Dems who say that he didn’t win his Senate race, so he doesn’t get to run. That effectively kiboshes any Dem, especially more liberal Dems, from redder parts of the country. My Senator, Kyrsten Sinema, won her race…. and despite her awesome clothes, I think she sucks.
I am looking for people who articulate the vision and agenda most effectively. All else is secondary.
tobie
My tier one is Harris, Klobuchar, Abrams, and O’Rourke; tier two is Castro, Gillibrand, and possibly Brown; tier three is Warren; and tier four is Sanders and Gabbard. I would like to see the party elect a progressive who is not a populist. I find populism of any variety to be antithetical to liberal democracy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dorothy A. Winsor: the whole Schultz thing is a media story as much as anything else. The only “center” he occupies is a group made up of Beltway Greenroom mopes like the cast of Morning Joe, who all agree We’ve Got To Get Serious About Entitlements (read that in your best Tom Brokaw voice). The thing that actually draws Americans together is protecting and expanding the social safety net, the opposite of Getting Serious.
NotMax
@delk
Cool.
Happy to offer the name of my last pooch on permanent loan: Argos.
;)
A Ghost To Most
@trollhattan: Hickenloooper is a genuine, authentic, compromise seeking moderate. I think he’s really angling for Gardner’s Senate spot.
Kdaug
With you on Sharrod. He’s been in the trenches, he knows *which* assholes, and can carry himself in a fight.
Suzanne
@schrodingers_cat:
Agreed. I think she’s wonderful. She’s my #1 right now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good. Also
Suzanne
Should note that Mayor Pete first crossed my radar at the DNC Future Forum, and I was super-impressed. I don’t think he’s a realistic candidate for president in 2020 (and he doesn’t think so, either, I suspect), but he is just the kind of young up-and-comer that the Dems need to cultivate.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I assume they mean our caucuses.
schrodingers_cat
@Amir Khalid: That I know. I know nothing about him beyond his name and title.
NotMax
@ Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh, there’s nothing halfway
About the Iowa way to treat you,
When we treat you
Which we may not do at all.
trollhattan
@Baud:
They should move the Iowa thing forward to next week, so we can get it over with and move on to the actual campaign.
NotMax
@Suzanne
As he’s openly gay – phrasing.
/inner 7th grader
trollhattan
Radio informs me Atlanta is expecting a millyun visitors for tomorrow’s Superb Owl. Just how fucking big is that stadium?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: yeah, that’s Tommy Vietor, who was one of Obama’s IA field organizers in ’08. I don’t know what percentage of Iowans, even Dems, show up for the caucus, but that sosh’list number is always high. Harkin was an old New Dealer, bless him
schrodingers_cat
@Suzanne: Style wise, I prefer AOC in the current freshman class.
BruceFromOhio
@Ohio Mom:
Definitely the kind of guy you can have a beer with.
Re: Tiers – Still a long, long slog to the future from here, but I’m thinking the white guys need to sit down and STFU this round, and Dems as a party need to pay a fuck of a lot more attention to statehouses.
Mai Naem mobile
No love for Steve Bullock? Wondering how many people here even know who he is? Hickenlooper and Bullock should at least rank above Bernie and Tulsi. Also too Terry Mac because you can’t have a Dem Potus Primary without a Clinton Crony. Also also too has Cuomo bowed out yet?
Suzanne
@NotMax: Oh Lord. I mean that he has a bright future. LMAO.
A Ghost To Most
@WaterGirl: Good morning. I hope I haven’t overwhelmed you with database info.
BruceFromOhio
@Suzanne: Same. Come what may, she’s got a microphone and an audience, and I want to hear more.
Another Scott
@NotMax: Yup.
I spent part of my childhood in Ohio, and went to high school in Dayton.
It’s horrible what has happened to the state with the loss of steel jobs in Middletown, autos and NCR in Dayton, etc., etc., etc. :-( The opiate/opioid crisis has only made things much worse.
But the world has changed. There’s a vast over-supply of auto manufacturing around the world, and the technology is changing (Toyota and VW and all the other huge companies are investing big in electric autos). Those old $70/hr (with bennies) auto manufacturing jobs are gone and aren’t coming back. Similarly with steel and PCs/fancy checkout registers.
Ohio should have learned from what Pittsburgh was able to do. Steel mostly dried up, but they had excellent universities (e.g. CMU) that served as incubators for new industries and new jobs. Ohio can still turn things around, but not by sitting around expecting coal and cash registers and 12 MPG pickups are going to save them.
Yes, I understand and agree that retraining isn’t a panacea – especially if the jobs aren’t there. But sitting around doing nothing is a guaranteed path to failure. We have to invest in the future we want – it won’t happen on its own.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Mai Naem mobile: All indications are that Terry was a good governor. I don’t see supporting him for president, but he has some basis for running.
Whatever happened to the possible Eric Holder run?
trollhattan
@Mai Naem mobile:
Montana is on a five-year time-out for Zinke. (Yes, I had to look him up and am disappointed he’s not related to Sandra.)
Get on the Yang Train!
ThresherK
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: All other bits aside, I’ll always have a soft spot for Tom Harkin, because of his run in 1992. He didn’t get very far, but early on he said GHWB “had feet of clay, and I intend to take a hammer to them”.
This warmed my heart in the immediate aftermath of the First Gulf War, when the echoes of Bush the elder’s 90% approval ratings were still reverberating in the press.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@ThresherK: he’s good one, I was gonna say it’s a shame he wasn’t one of those determined to die in the Senate, then I check the google and see even now he’s a spry lad of 79!
JPL
@trollhattan: Local news has been using that number all week. It only works if the folks coming in from out of town bring their family and let them watch in a hotel room. Maybe they are bringing their hairdresser and nannies also.
I think they made the number up in order to appease taxpayers like me who paid for the damn stadium.
Lyrebird
@John Cole:
Made my day!!!
From a professional pedant, fwiw.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: Like it or not, the growth fields and high wages are going to those with college degrees or advanced manufacturing training. The low-skill/high-wage job is over, and with it the social status that that afforded. If we are smart, we get out ahead of that. If we are dumb, we pander to that cohort for votes.
NotMax
@trollhattan
Caravanus maximus.
:)
JPL
Tier one is a lift of possible v.p. candidates, but I want Abrams to stay in GA.
MomSense
Warren and Brown are indistinguishable from Trump on trade and tariffs. Their positions have always been fucking pandering and idiotic and now that trump has done it – workers and farmers in beloved flyover country are paying the consequences. IMHO it disqualifies them from consideration. Brown had non existent coattails in Ohio. Warren underperformed Obama in Massachusetts(!!).
Sanders is a low info, egotistical asshole. Buttigieg is unqualified, has nothing special to offer, and has no name recognition. Biden could have made a case in 2016 but his time has passed. Schultz who? He’s a fucking joke. Fuck Gabbard.
Beto, Gillum, and Abrams are the future but they need to win something first. Castro doesn’t have anything unique to offer and needs to be elected to something more than mayor.
I like Klobuchar but she hasn’t announced. Right now it’s Harris and Booker.
Chris Murphy would be a good candidate and I would love it if Sally Yates entered the fray.
I’d hold my nose for Gillibrand but she represented big tobacco in the 90s – we all knew Fucking well by then just how deadly smoking is. Also, too her gun love and anti-immigration stances are not going to be accepted as just political expediency in this climate.
My opinions are based solely on years of being one of the top phonebankers in my state. I’m thinking of what I would say about each candidate to perspective voters on the phone.
Tim C.
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t begrudge any politician, even Wilmer, the locals. There’s a strong identity set that goes with a sense of it being a local going for the big time. That said, I suspect Jeff Merkley here in Oregon is going to discover that if he runs for the big show, it’s going to be Jeff who?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
all just balloon juice at this point, but I’ve been thinking about a Harris-Murphy ticket. He’s got foreign policy cred, I think.
NotMax
OT.
Yay! USPS site informs me the Priority Mail package mailed out from the mainland last Monday has now deigned to saunter into the local post office.
trollhattan
@NotMax:
We need to alert El Presidente*.
Miss Bianca
I’m sorry, but Sherrod Brown can join the Fuck Right Off brigade, unless he’s got some magic plan to produce another Democratic Senator in OH. We need every Democratic Senate seat we can get. Just winning the presidency isn’t enough.
Likewise, Bernie Sanders can die in a fire, far as I’m concerned. That shouty old prick did his level damnedest to screw Hillary Clinton, and the Democrats, and I am not now, nor will I ever, be in a forgiving mood about that.
And frankly, I’m just not too psyched about white male Democratic politicians right now. They can all take a back seat, sit down, and STFU for a while. For the good of the party, and the good of the nation. So that takes Biden, Beto, and Buttfried or Buttgang or Buttgieg or whatever the hell his name is, out, too.
MomSense
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They are both charismatic, they speak like real people, and the youngs love them. Harris has that Obama cool factor and much as we think it’s all about the issues- the cool factor is important.
MomSense
@Miss Bianca:
Ha! Right there with you. Except Murphy. He’d be a great VP for Harris.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@NotMax: That’s a beautifully accurate image. Thanks.
germy
NotMax
@MomSense
Personally holding off doing any leaning toward anyone until they release detailed policy papers on such topics as climate change, Syria, etc.
Call me old fashioned. (In fact, mix me up an old fashioned while you’re at it.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT: His ass is so broke
Suzanne
I should note that I will vote for any of these people if they win the nomination.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Subpoena the loan application.
Mandalay
@MomSense:
Do you really think President Warren or President Brown would have imposed tariffs on Canadian steel because Canada was seen as a threat to our national security?
feebog
Not going to do the tier thing because it is meaningless at this point. However, I will point out that both Texas and California vote on Super Tuesday. Now that Mayor Garcetti has bowed out, Harris is going to scoop up a shitton of delegates. And if Beto is in, same for him in Texas. The key for both is to remain viable in the four early primaries. I expect Harris to perform well in SC and NV, or at least well enough to stay in the race. I’m thinking a Harris/O’Rourke ticket would be pretty strong.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@NotMax:
Last Monday as in last week? Or the Monday of this week, today being Saturday? As a mainlander, I suppose I’m spoiled
matt
Harris announced.
MomSense
@Mandalay:
Their public statements say they approved of tariffs. So yes Mandalay I do actually believe that Warren and Brown would have imposed tariffs. And if they were lying about it to pander, then fuckem.
NotMax
@feebog
O’Rourke/Agarn ’20!
:)
Miss Bianca
@StringOnAStick: I actually think Hickenlooper would stand a better chance of getting elected to Senate, so I’m sort of hoping that the Presidential float was just that – a float, and that he, too, might declare for the Senate. Because, yeah – my distaste for Straight White Male Democratic Presidential Candidates goes for him, too.
B.B.A.
It’s Harris’s nomination to lose. Gillibrand, Warren, Booker are all acceptable in case Harris stumbles. Everyone else can fuck the fuck off.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
The 28th. The other one would be a week ago Monday. Five days isn’t too bad, considering four is the norm (point of departure is in Florida). Hope the package had a swell time during its 19+ hours in Honolulu.
Miss Bianca
@a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio): “in her memory”? Oh, no…poor CZanne. : (
NotMax
Whatever happened to Brian Schweitzer? Would not be averse to seeing him in the Veep spot on a ticket.
janesays
If Sherrod Brown is the nominee, his Senate seat is gone (assuming he wins the presidency), and the path for Democrats to take a Senate majority in 2021 becomes exponentially more difficult.
Given the choice between President Sherrod Brown with a Senate minority and virtually any of the other Democratic candidates with a Senate majority, I chose the latter every time.
If we don’t control both houses of Congress along with the presidency, absolutely no progressive legislation will get passed, and we may not be able to get judicial appointments confirmed.
trollhattan
@B.B.A.:
What’s Harris’ recognition level outside California? Those living here have no way to judge.
MazeDancer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Murphy has formally declared he won’t run.
Younger kids. Objecting spouse. Not clear, but in that zone. But he likes being Senator. Feels real, not a ploy.
Klobuchar/Harris 2020. Something for Everyone. And a Woman Guaranteed.
janesays
@B.B.A.: So if it’s not one of those four, you’re cool with another 4 years of Trump?
NotMax
@trollhattan
At this point more than fair, less than middling.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NotMax: I would
Sebastian
@Gravenstone:
I am not sure I am the one with the butthurt here because that’s quite a kneejerk reaction. Par for the course for the Gillibrand camp I guess.
What I was pointing out is that she will look like a fool for having been duped by an obvious Roger Stone ratfuck. Not a good look when applying for a position where you have to compete on a global level against players much more sophisticated and cunning than a two-bit ratfucker from Florida.
Suzanne
@feebog:
My thought, as well.
Miss Bianca
@MazeDancer: Klobuchar does absolutely nothing for me, in that I have absolutely no sense of what she’s accomplished, or what her distinguishing characteristics might be. Bland, corn-fed, Midwestern white is the only vibe I get from her. Could be my fault for just not paying sufficient attention, but seriously, anyone…what has she done in the Senate that I ought to know her for?
Sebastian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
When I read that back then he was dead to me. Schweitzer was also staned by Al Giordano, who turned out to be just another old creep.
Miss Bianca
@Sebastian: She was the spearhead for a lot of Democratic women Senators, so if you want to suggest that *all* of them were merely dupes of Roger Stone, you go ahead and get hoist with your own petard there, buddy.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@trollhattan: I’m not sure BJers represent a normal group of people either, but Harris did well in Senate hearings. That raised her visibility to me. Any member of congress in televised hearings will have the same thing happen.
FWIW, when I walked by the café yesterday, Fox was concern trolling about hardly anyone ever went straight from the Senate to the presidency. I assume that means they fear our senators.
sukabi
Read a thing this morning that Biden and Sanders are both rethinking their runs. Biden because he’s realizing he’s not “left” enough for the country, and Bernie because he probably sees his inside polling and realizes his window has closed.
It’s really too early for picking favorites, but Warren, Harris and Klobuchar are at the top of my list.
Anyway, not to derail the ACLU will be back in court this month …on behalf of the additional THOUSANDS of immigrant children that were disappeared at the border that ICE and DHS hasn’t accounted for and “can’t track”
B.B.A.
@janesays: If it’s not one of those four, we’re going to get another four years of Trump.
janesays
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Not difficult to keep, impossible. When a Senate seat is vacated in Ohio, the governor gets to choose any replacement he wants, regardless of party. The governor of Ohio is a Republican. Sherrod Brown’s replacement would be a Republican, guaranteed, and the seat wouldn’t come up for special election until 2022. By that point, the replacement will likely be very entrenched, coupled with the fact that the party in control of the White House almost always loses seats in the midterm elections. It’s likely that seat would be gone for a generation if Brown were to vacate it while Ohio has a Republican governor.
Ella in New Mexico
It is seriously WAAAAY to far out to come up with much more than a 2 tier list of these candidates right now.
Most of their negatives are about two factors that time will literally repair:
1. Will Trump even be the candidate? We still have at least 12-14 months before the Primary thing really gets started. Mueller’s investigation, the House Committees, and all the other stuff that is going to start coming out at exponential, not linear, proportion over the next few months are really gonna matter. Even if the narcissistic bastard is still running, he’s gonna be wounded, and most likely more dangerous because he will have learned he can depend on being able to use every single dirty trick and illegal act he wants to use to win.
2. We still don’t know a whole hell of a lot about many of the people who have already announced. As their story unfolds, many people who look strong now will be revealed as either not so great or maybe even stronger than they look now. We also don’t know who else is going to announce later on this year who could be even more suited to what the ground situation will be in the primaries and in the run up to the election. There are still some great candidates who are sensible enough to know that running for President could very likely ruin their private lives, but they may be persuaded to do so when circumstances change in the future.
I’m personally leaning on Factor 1 more than anything else in regards to who will be our best candidate. I can’t even look at a candidate through the same lens we did in 2016, which was that we had such an outstanding likelihood of winning we could afford to debate the future of the Democratic party as part of our choice. That means I cannot hold age, experience, race, gender, Progressive values or anything else even equal with “Can they win the fucking election” anymore.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@NotMax:
That’s around the time it takes to mail first class mail to like Texas from Ohio.
Sebastian
@Miss Bianca:
But those are not running for president and Commander in Chief of one of the world’s superpowers, are they? Or are we lowering the bar now like the repubs did for the orange fartcloud?
I am questioning her judgement in high stakes situations.
eclare
@Suzanne: Same here
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@janesays:
It’s incredibly irresponsible of Brown then to consider running for president then. Somebody should take him aside and explain the stakes to him.
janesays
@B.B.A.: Disagree. I think Klobuchar and a few others could win. Promoting a message of “If it’s not one of the 4 people I say it should be, we’re DOOMED!!!!” this early in the process ain’t helpful.
janesays
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Agreed.
I’ll crawl over glass to vote for Brown (or a sentient ham sandwich) if he’s the nominee, but I really hope to FSM that’s a choice I never have to make.
Martin
@trollhattan: It’s not super high, but that’ll change fast. That’s why CA moved our primary up. Our delegate numbers are so high, our primary is right after the early 4, we have a ton of early voting which means people will be casting ballots at the same time Iowa caucuses are happening. Harris is going to win CA and is likely to take the delegate lead after super Tuesday. She be better able to compete in states like Texas than Texas natives like Castro in California, simply due to the complexity of reaching blue voters in CA vs TX, and the fact that the early CA voting means your campaign needs to be much broader here than in TX. If Beto runs, it’s his. If it’s only Castro from TX, he’ll have a bit more of a fight on his hands. Beto has the infrastructure, Castro doesn’t.
If Harris does okay in the early 4 (I think NV is hers to lose, and she should be strong in SC) she should walk out of Super Tuesday with the delegate lead and frontrunner status.
Martin
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Brown fully understands the stakes. He understands how this works better than anyone.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Martin:
Then why is he risking losing his Senate seat for a generation for the Dems?
Hellbastard
I’ll support whichever candidate is willing to call Trump a liar and a pig during a televised debate. Visibly wiping their hand on their slacks after shaking his hand scores extra points.
Miss Bianca
@Sebastian: Harris isn’t running? Warren isn’t running? Fuck, Sherrod Brown isn’t running?
Are you stoned, or just stupid? Or just some troll who doesn’t know his ass from his useful bits? *All* of them, Sparky, called on Franken to resign, so what you’re saying is that based on some assertion you’re pulling out of your ass – “Franken was just smeared by Roger Stone!, None of it was truuueee!” – none of them has enough “judgement”, in your exalted opinion, to run for President. Here’s a thought – maybe it was a Roger Stone job, and maybe it had traction because at least some of it was true.
Jesus Chicken-Fried Christ. With “friends” like you, who needs enemas?
Gelfling 545
@Ohio Mom: But for him to say that Democrats aren’t talking about it is Bernie-ish and ridiculous. He dropped from my preferred list to my only if I have to list. Also that his slogans, remarks, etc have to be explained to people probably is not a good thing.
Percysowner
@scott (the other one): This! If Brown is elected Mike (I hate abortion, taxes and non-Christian religion) DeWine appoints his replacement. We can’t afford that.
rikyrah
@a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio):
I am so sorry for the family ???
feebog
@Miss Bianca:
This. It is quite possible Stone set the original complaint up. But other women also came forward, some on the record, some anonymously. I don’t think Stone was behind them all.
Fair Economist
@scottinnj: Abrams is a much bigger stretch than IA, NC, or ME. GA has a bigger R tilt and voter supression is considerably worse.
Totally in agreement that the Senate is critical. Also, if you want any chance of climate control legislation you need yet another seat because Manchin will be against it. How is Sinema on climate control?
Hoodie
I think Dems should be thinking in terms of tickets. I like Harris/Beto, Booker/Klobuchar. Another intriguing one might be Harris and a dark horse like Roy Cooper of NC.
Sebastian
@Miss Bianca:
I don’t know what your problem is but you’ve been repeatedly aggressive and confrontational against me. I would appreciate if you could take it down a notch or two. I don’t remember calling you stupid or any other labels or ad hominems.
If you have issues with the justification of my opinion and wish to change it then I am happy to hear your arguments. But if all you want is to lay into me for whatever reason then I would kindly ask you to stop.
Back to the matter at hand. Yes, I question all of their judgement if that’s what you are asking. I have a problem with the tendency within our party to immediately fold and play by the enemy’s playbook. Should Franken have resigned? Yes, eventually but we could have used the hearings and process to fuck up the Repub operation big time. None of that happened because our side was too myopic, too stupid, too amateurish. I am really not interested in discussing this matter all over again. What I am saying is that if your strategic game is so weak that fucking Roger Stone can play you and you can’t manage to work out some gain out of the situation then you are not fit to lead the United States of America against global adversaries.
This is the Big Game with the fate of nations and the human civilization at stake. I don’t give a fuck about Warren or Brown or Harris and if they feel it’s their turn. Unless I see that any of them learned anything from the past decades they are in my opinion not ready.
Sebastian
@feebog:
See my comment. This is not about Franken. This is about interviewing for the CiC and not being able to win a fairly simple political gambit.
Fair Economist
@NotMax: After the media ignored Hillary Clinton’s outstanding series of policy papers, don’t expect much of that this cycle. We will get some good proposals from Warren on econ because that is her road but otherwise probably nothing.
Edit: plus Inslee on climate change, same reason
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Sander is in my F*ck Off column.
Sab
@Fair Economist: Didn’t she start political life as a Green?
Kathleen
@NotMax:
NM: “Make me an Old Fashioned”.
ME: OK. You’re an Old Fashioned (rim shot, bad ancient joke but couldn’t resist)
Mr. Kite
Is there any proof whatsoever that Roger Stone was behind Franken accusers?
artem1s
If you think Booker is too beholden to corporate interests, then you should take Brown off your list. If he declares, the Stein’s Berners, Greens, libertarian and GOP concern trolls are going to paint him as a shill for Monsanto, Wall Street, and whatever BS they can throw at the wall and hopes stick. NE Ohio is industrial, union, manufacturing, and agribusiness state. Brown does an excellent job of balancing his very, very, diverse constituency. He’s smart, knows how economies and trade works. He is a great fund raiser and has a great working relationship with colleagues who are sane and willing to actually negotiate. He is also a pragmatist and deals realistically with the state’s problems. He will be vilified and torched by the far left and right. He was only second to Franken on the GOP hit list and Franken is gone now.
I think he’d make a great president. he is a great Senator. But he’s too wonky, too prepared, has too much history and too qualified to satisfy the purity ponies. He has no chance of getting elected to the WH.
Spinoza Is My Co-Pilot
Interesting post, lotta good comments (with a bit of jackal-like viciousness to keep the kumbaya at bay, I suppose).
I’d switch JC’s Tier 1 and 2, with Harris at the top (I’m mostly thinking the dreaded “electability” here).
As with many others here, Wilmer’s in my Just Fuck Right Off tier, with Gabbard and Schultz. Mostly due to the Bernie-or-Bust leftist-purity morons I know who still say — even after 2 years of Trump — that they stand by their decision to refuse to support Hillary in 2016. They fully buy into the “Bernie was robbed by Crooked Hillary and the DNC-rigged primaries!” conspiracy bullshit. If that shouty old phony runs again in 2020 (and loses again, as he almost certainly would) then this crowd will be ready, willing, and able to be useful idiots for the right once again. Fuck him and fuck them.
Gretchen
@Mr. Kite: he knew it was coming before it happened. No proof yet, but now they have his electronics. And yes, I agree with Sebastian. If you fold to every Republican dirty trick, you are not the leader we need now.
Quaker in a Basement
I PIck Hick!
Hickenlooper 2020
Gretchen
My dream team is Harris with Beto for VP.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sebastian: Harris is.
Sebastian
@Omnes Omnibus:
Correct she is and I should have been clearer in my statement and did elaborate on it.
I am not enthusiastic about any of the current candidates. The challenges we face as human race are monumental: global warming is threatening the very fabric of life, global corruption and crime are about to tear apart everything and throw us into dystopia, totalitarian regimes, AI, and so on.
And the best we can muster are people who get fucked over by the political equivalent of a three card monte?
My criteria for the best candidate is simple:
Who has it in them to take on Putin?
Others have different priorities and that’s fine. Mine is having the right leader in this war.
Jeffro
Harris and possibly Warren. The rest of these “tiers” are just stupid
e.a.f.
don’t get to vote, I’m Canadian, but sure would like Harris for President. The first tier might be good but do they have the experience to be President. always liked Joe Biden so can he be V.P. again. Know he won’t want it, but gee he was a good V.P. so why not again. Him and Ms. Harris would be great.
Warren would make a great President, but I don’t think she’d can get elected, but if this is dreaming, yes, she’d be a great President and Harris could be her V.P. could they them have Bernie Saunders as a Cabinet member along with Abrams.
There are some good candidates running for Pres. in the Democratic party and if they don’t win the nomination, but the Dems take the Presidency, why doesn’t ever wins consider some of their former “contestants” as Cabinet Material. It would actually give all of them a chance to do what they’re good at and build a group which could at various times take another run at things and have the experience. The current group in cabinet look contestants from the old gong show.
e.a.f.
@e julius drivingstorm:
Abrams is very impressive. it will be interesting to see her speech after the state of the fuckup.