Repub RatFvckery Open Thread: ‘Roger Who?

They just don’t make Repub thugs like they used to…

103 replies
  1. 1
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    “…and the attempted murder of Batman.”

    Still makes me giggle.

  2. 2
    Sebastian says:

    Let me be the first:

    Tick Tock Motherfuckers.

  3. 3
    MattF says:

    It’s the self-pity that’s really, really appalling.

    Oh, poor Roger. He’s just serving his country. In his own inimitable way. Har de har.

  4. 4
    Mowgli says:

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer den of thieves, bandits and cut-throats. May Stone be their (literal) anchor.

  5. 5
    Raven says:

    When does a judge get to jump his ass for all this bullshit mouth runnin? What about the Feds, do they just have to take it?

  6. 6
    hueyplong says:

    This “Stone is going down and who knows who might accompany him” stuff is my kind of topic. Would love to see a shell-inhabiting reptile join him in the barrel at some point.

    I could definitely see Stone squealing. He’s already moved from bragging bully to whining victim. Just a short step to snitch.

  7. 7
    Raven says:

    @MattF: Scooter.

  8. 8
    marklar says:

    Zeddy- “it hasn’t gotten as much play but you have to understand that Roger Stone is to the entire GOP what Michael Cohen was to Trump.”

    Rainy Day Republicans Individual #1 and #35…..Everybody must get Stoned.

  9. 9
    Sebastian says:

    it hasn’t gotten as much play but you have to understand that Roger Stone is to the entire GOP what Michael Cohen was to Trump.

    That explains why all those GOPers on TV are so concerned about Roger’s civil rights all of a sudden.

  10. 10
    Booger says:

    …worse than OBL? Is his skull still intact?

  11. 11
    Ruckus says:

    Treated worse than OBL?
    Roger is still alive isn’t he?
    OBL is still dead isn’t he?

  12. 12
    neldob says:

    But her emails!!! Hope I’m the first one for that. Also, I was recently told “she bribed the judge!”. yes, indeedy.

  13. 13
    Raven says:

    @Ruckus: He was more afraid than OBL.

  14. 14
    dmsilev says:

    So, Twitler sat down with his favorite FTNYT mouthpiece. Word-like sounds ensued:

    A defiant President Trump declared on Thursday that he has all but given up on negotiations with Congress over his border wall and will proceed without lawmakers even as he dismissed any suggestions of wrongdoing in the investigations that have ensnared his associates.

    In an interview in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump called the talks “a waste of time” and indicated he will most likely take action on his own when they officially end in two weeks. At the same time, he expressed optimism about reaching a trade deal with China and denied being at odds with his intelligence chiefs.

    “I think Nancy Pelosi is hurting our country very badly by doing what’s she doing and, ultimately, I think I’ve set the table very nicely,” Mr. Trump said. While he would not directly say that he plans to declare a national emergency to build the wall, he added: “I’ve set the table. I’ve set the stage for doing what I’m going to do.”
    The president dismissed the importance of the proposed Trump Tower his team was seeking to build in Moscow at the height of the election, and he denied his own lawyer’s account of how late in the campaign he was still discussing the project. He also denied that his Twitter messages about former associates who are cooperating with prosecutors amount to witness tampering.

  15. 15
    Geoduck says:

    @Booger: ..Or at the bottom of the ocean?

  16. 16
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Chris Hayes
    What a great thing to devote your public service to.

    Steven Dennis @ StevenTDennis
    BURR, who also heads the bipartisan investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, says stopping the ban on menthol cigarettes is his top priority and said you should expect him on the Senate floor often to talk about it.

  17. 17
    PIGL says:

    @Ruckus: A body can hope.

    Afterthought: of the two men, Stone has done much more damage; probably PBL could be laid at his door if the truth of the past 40 years were only known in full.

  18. 18
    Ian G. says:

    That last Zeddy tweet is something I’ve been saying for a while, that nobody currently indicted and/or imprisoned who was in Trump’s circle would be if he had just lost the election. This truly is “The Producers” presidency. They picked the wrong candidate, the wrong message, the wrong campaign people….where did they go right? And everyone will end up in jail.

  19. 19
    jl says:

    @Booger: ” Is his skull still intact? ”

    The skull itself or what’s inside? What’s inside hasn’t been intact for a long time. Not that he has anyone but himself to blame for that.

  20. 20
    Another Scott says:

    Report: Mueller Investigation Nearly Done With First Day Of Trump Campaign. Investigating all of Stone’s stuff could probably be interminable as well.

    In other news, Adam bait: <a href=";ArmyUPress:


    Caracas is under increasing economic pressure at home as hyperinflation accelerates. The United States and its allies continue to implement sanctions by banning money lending to Venezuela’s government or its state oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela S.A., and by passing sanctions against President Nicolás Maduro and his top officials.12 As oil revenues have continued to fall, the economic unrest continues unabated. One result is that Venezuela has ostensibly been considering a military incursion into Guyana. An unconfirmed report in the Brazilian paper O Antagonista claimed Brazil’s intelligence services had learned about Venezuela considering a military incursion into Guyana for the purposes of claiming oil-rich territory.13

    Although it could effectively be argued that Venezuela is far from ready to undertake a foray of this nature, the massive stretch of Guyana’s territory, known as the Essequibo region, has been in contention since 2015 and could theoretically provide the Venezuelan administration a sorely needed distraction from their domestic woes. Maduro, faced with an internal uprising among impoverished and oppressed citizens, issued a presidential decree in June 2015 purporting to claim sovereignty over the entire sixty-five thousand square miles of Essequibo, which accounts for the overwhelming majority of Guyana’s landmass (see figure 2). Also included in the area claimed by Maduro is the vast stretch of ocean where energy giant ExxonMobil, under contract with Guyanese authorities, announced the discovery of huge oil deposits in the deep seabed 120 miles (193 kilometers) off the coast of Guyana in September 2016.14 In his presidential decree, Maduro outlined a “defense” zone offshore that, if allowed to stand, would reportedly block Guyana’s access to the Atlantic Ocean.15


    If the black swan scenario, as outlined above, materializes and there is Venezuelan military action against Guyana, the United States would ostensibly have a range of options to pressure Venezuela and may choose to implement much heavier economic sanctions. However, it is increasingly likely that it will eventually have to contemplate military action, an action previously considered by many as unpalatable since a wider conflict with the Venezuelan armed forces would be difficult to sustain for the United States as it faces other foreign policy crises across the world.22

    Although many parallels have been drawn between the situation in Venezuela in 2018 and Operation Just Cause (OJC), the U.S. military intervention in Panama during 1989, the situations are vastly different. As background, OJC was launched by the United States in December 1989 for four major reasons:


    Somehow, I don’t think that Maduro would be thinking about invading Guyana now, but it’s an interesting read. Note the context and the caveats.

    (via LOLGOP)


  21. 21
    James E Powell says:


    Project-based learning?

  22. 22
    zhena gogolia says:

    @James E Powell:

    Truly a heinous crime, in my opinion!

  23. 23
    Another Scott says:

    @Another Scott: Bah, sorry about the mangled link. I tried to edit it once and am worried about it being thrown in the dungeon if I try again.


  24. 24
    Jay says:

    The Mound of Sound has a post up on “Roger Stone and the Geezer Factor”.

    Basically none of these morons understand modern communications technology or that the internet is forever.

    There the guys who send their angry rant, by hitting the “send all” feature.

  25. 25
    Ken says:

    Terabytes of Rat-Fucker Data Trail

    Oh, it’ll probably turn out to be all p*rn.

    Kiddie p*rn.

    Filmed at a custom site in Central America.

    Starring many prominent Republican politicians, staffers, pundits, and hangers-on.

  26. 26
    RSA says:


    “I think Nancy Pelosi is hurting our country very badly by doing what’s she doing and, ultimately, I think I’ve set the table very nicely,” Mr. Trump said.

    I wonder if Mr. Trump has ever set the table in his entire life?

  27. 27
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Aaron Blake @ AaronBlake
    52% of Republicans say, even if Russia did interfere in the 2016 election, it did no damage to American democracy
    Windsor Mann @ WindsorMann
    52% of Republicans also said they’d favor postponing the 2020 election if Trump told them to.

    Should be noted that the poll gives no evidence– that my cold-addled eyes could see– of the percentage of Republicans, but Gallup’s tracking shows between 25 and 28% for the last year.

  28. 28
    Wag says:


    Treated worse than OBL?
    Roger is still alive isn’t he?
    OBL is still dead isn’t he?

    But Roger wishes he were dead

  29. 29
    Miss Bianca says:

    @dmsilev: “I think I’ve set the table very nicely”?

    What the actual fuck?

  30. 30
    Duane says:

    @Raven: In fairness to Roger Stone, people will piss on his grave.

  31. 31
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Ian G.:

    This truly is “The Producers” presidency. They picked the wrong candidate, the wrong message, the wrong campaign people….where did they go right? And everyone will end up in jail.

    “Hit it!”

    Prisoners of love/Blue skies above…

  32. 32
    MattF says:

    @Miss Bianca: It’s the four Bs. Bullshit, Bluster, Bullying, and being an asshole.

  33. 33
    dmsilev says:

    @Miss Bianca: Guessing, one of his minions used the phrase and it stuck in his brain.

  34. 34

    @dmsilev: Next he’ll be telling us he made it up. What was the phrase he did that with? Some cliché that he claimed he made up?

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: “prime the pump”, IIRC. And I think there are others

  36. 36
    Jay says:

    @Another Scott:

    Neo-Con’s have been flogging this forever.

  37. 37
    dmsilev says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Speaking of making stuff up, here’s another excerpt:

    On another point of contention, the president noted that he had summoned his intelligence chiefs, including Dan Coats, the national intelligence director, and Gina Haspel, the C.I.A. director, to the White House because he had heard they contradicted his foreign policy during testimony to Congress this week. Mr. Coats and the others told lawmakers that North Korea was unlikely to give up its nuclear arsenal, that Iran has not restarted work to build one and that the Islamic State was not defeated, all assessments that clash with the president’s worldview.

    But Mr. Trump said the intelligence chiefs told him their presentation was misinterpreted. “They said, ‘Sir, our testimony was totally mischaracterized,’” Mr. Trump said. “I said, ‘What are you talking about?’ And when you read their testimony and you read their statements, it was mischaracterized by the media.”

    I suppose it’s possible that the intel chiefs nodded and told Trump that yes, yes, it totally was Fake News that they had called him a moron by implication.

  38. 38
    Ruckus says:

    He has good reason to be afraid. OBL only got less than 4000 people killed by himself, Roger has helped asswipes get elected for 40 yrs and that has caused a lot more people to get dead than OBL ever dreamed of.

  39. 39
    Mary G says:

    Cory Booker is getting ready to announce. He wanted to wait for Black History Month. It’s nice to have so many great choices to pick from.

  40. 40
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @dmsilev: They said, ‘Sir, our testimony was totally mischaracterized,

    SIR ALERT! Daniel Dale says it’s his biggest tell. I’m surprised he didn’t say they had tears in their eyes.

  41. 41

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes! Prime the pump.

    @dmsilev: I saw that. Who ya gonna believe? Trump or your lying eyes.

  42. 42
    Ruckus says:

    drumpf has set at the table plenty.

  43. 43
    Ruckus says:

    There are vays to make such things happen……..

    ETA, that’s not a spelling error, say it out loud.

  44. 44
    Mike in NC says:

    Fat Bastard also referred to one of his projects as being “very cool and very legal”. Nobody normal talks like that.

  45. 45
    Amir Khalid says:

    There was a time not so long ago when even giant corporations didn’t have terabytes of data, let alone individual mob bagmen. I suspect investigating Stone’s data might take up the careers of quite a few FBI agents.

  46. 46
    Amir Khalid says:

    Oh, and greetings to all from a sunny February in tropical KL.

  47. 47
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    checked Dale’s twitter feed to see if he put up a Sir! Alert, but i found this

    Daniel Dale @ ddale8
    This is a thing Trump said today: “So I didn’t see the report from the intelligence. When you read it, it’s a lot different than it was covered on in the news.”

  48. 48
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mike in NC:
    Which must mean the project is sordid beyond imagining, and at least a little hinky legality-wise.

  49. 49
    lgerard says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    he was also the first person to discover that Lincoln was a republican

  50. 50
    Aleta says:

    On April 27, 2017, Jack Talaska, a lawyer for the poor in Lafayette, La., had 194 felony cases.

    Mr. Talaska was not outside the norm. Of the public defenders in Louisiana handling felony caseloads at that time, there were two dozen with even more clients. One had 413.

    The numbers alone might seem to violate the Constitution. Poor defendants in the United States have the right to a competent lawyer, and hundreds of thousands of defendants rest their hopes on someone like Mr. Talaska.
    But there has never been any guarantee that those lawyers would have enough time to handle their cases. That’s why the study cited above, which looked at the workloads of public defenders, is significant.

    Right now, courts allow an individual to claim, after they lose, that they received an ineffective defense. But the bar is high. Some judges have ruled that taking illegal drugs, driving to court drunk or briefly falling asleep at the defense table — even during critical testimony — did not make a lawyer inadequate.

    It is even harder to make the argument that the sheer size of lawyers’ caseloads makes it impossible for them to provide what the Constitution requires: a reasonably effective defense. That is partly because there has never been a reliable standard for how much time is enough.

    Now, reformers are using data in a novel attempt to create such a standard. The studies they have produced so far, in four states, say that public defenders have two to almost five times as many cases as they should.

    The bottom line: Mr. Talaska would have needed almost 10,000 hours, or five work-years, to handle the 194 felony cases he had on that April day alone, not to mention the dozens more he would be assigned that year. (The analysis did not include one death-penalty case on his roster, the most time-consuming type of case.)

    “The workload can be overwhelming even under the best circumstances, and most offices never experience the best circumstances,” said Mr. Talaska, 30, who agreed to talk only because he was no longer working as a public defender. “Most offices don’t have paralegals, law clerks, or full-time investigators.” Lawyers are expected to do it all.

  51. 51
    PIGL says:

    @Ken: It would come as no surprise. These people are creepy as fuck. See also “it’s always projection”

  52. 52


    Would love to see a shell-inhabiting reptile join him in the barrel at some point.

    We have heard absolutely nothing suggesting that Mueller has sights on McConnell, and everyone else so far has been an expected target. I personally think McConnell is smart enough to have not left enough evidence lying around of prosecutable crimes for him to be in trouble.

    But I would love to be wrong, because nothing would help our democracy more than throwing McConnell in jail.

  53. 53
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    Wonder how many Republican politicians are wetting their pants right now?

  54. 54
    Aleta says:

    @Another Scott: nearly done with first day

    My dog, just the names and the seating charts at the inaugural dinners and luncheons … and those were the people out in the open.

  55. 55
    scav says:

    Ah, he’s thrown tepid chain hamburders all over that flat thing. Table set once again!

  56. 56
    Jeffro says:

    I’m heading to bed after I take the dog for one last walk in the Arctic tundra, BUT: I just wanna say, Marc Thiessen has written the most dishonest, most hack-o-riffic column that he’s ever written in his life for tomorrow’s Post. Utter scum. Did you all know that the Dems have swung SO FAR LEFT that Howard Schultz is doing them a favor by running as a blessed centrist and jeebus I sure hope he helps the dirty hippies see the error of their ways before it’s too late?

    Where. Is. My Bat?

  57. 57
    plato says:

    When are the people of this country going to wake up to the fact that this president is a disgusting liar, documented to have lied over 8,000 times in 2 yrs? Add to that his recent, blatant lies on our nation's intel chiefs' testimony in the US Senate. Past time for impeachment!

    — Maxine Waters (@RepMaxineWaters) January 31, 2019

    The rapid normalization of totus thug’s dose of daily lies by the corrupt and complicit media is the reason why his cabal of these traitors are still mouthing off on the same media outlets.

  58. 58
    Aleta says:

    Mimi Rocah @Mimirocah1
    Bank & financial records aren’t common evidence of obstruction & witness tampering crimes like those in Stone indictment. Could suggest other possible crimes were listed in the search warrant application. Maybe explains why Trump/Graham are so worked up about the search?

    A reply:

    Lincoln’s Bible‏ @LincolnsBible 32m32 minutes ago
    Yes, Stone – suspecting for months that he’d be indicted, had plenty of time to destroy evidence. But don’t underestimate Mueller’s experience w/ criminals who keep 2 sets of books – & that it’s best to have the actual bank/account transactions, before you seize the fake ones.

  59. 59
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Why weren’t the FBI agents required to read Stone his Miranda rights?

  60. 60
    plato says:

    @Mike in Pasadena: None. Going by their open arrogance and defiance so far.

  61. 61
    Amir Khalid says:


    Marc Thiessen has written the most dishonest, most hack-o-riffic column

    I haven’t been keeping up with his writing of late. Is there some other kind of column that Thiessen writes?

  62. 62
    hueyplong says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: I think the point being made is that reading rights only relates to use of statements made while in custody. To my knowledge, no one has said Stone made any statements to the FBI during or after his arrest.

  63. 63
  64. 64
    rikyrah says:

    The tweets in this post are hilarious 😂

  65. 65
    Steeplejack says:


    We have heard absolutely nothing suggesting that Mueller has sights on McConnell [. . .].

    As Kingsley Amis wrote in The Anti-Death League, “Effective concealment conceals the fact of concealment.”

    McConnell is such a big fish, and so competent in his villainy, unlike the bumbling Trump mob, that it would seem crucial not to give him any warning or a chance to take countermeasures. Hence silence from the Mueller camp.

    Because McConnell is not dumb, he probably has taken steps to protect himself anyway, but it is to be hoped that he can’t erase or hide all the evidence. And there is probably some body of evidence, perhaps mostly electronic, that Mueller or the intelligence agencies already hoovered up before McConnell took action.

  66. 66
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Will he actually declare a national emergency? I know my people like my father (he hates Trump) will see that as Trump outmaneuvering Pelosi.

  67. 67
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @ RadioFreeTom
    This doesn’t sound at all panicky, but in any case, Steele was not “ousted” or “discredited”.

    Donald J. Trump @ realDonaldTrump
    Nellie Ohr, the wife of DOJ official Bruce Ohr, was long ago investigating for pay (GPS Fusion) members of my family, feeding it to her husband who was then giving it to the FBI, even though it was created by ousted & discredited Christopher Steele. Illegal! WITCH HUNT

    inventing nutty conspiracy theories about members of the family…. tomorrow’s Friday, right? Anybody think DJTJ is packing his go bag tonight?

  68. 68

    @Frankensteinbeck: We have heard absolutely nothing period. Compared to a clam, this guy’s an erster.

    The reason Yertle, and Stone, aren’t booking flights for parts unknown right now is that they really believe that they aren’t gonna pay any consequences for all the crap they’ve done. (And they may well be right. Look at all the past instances they can point to.)

  69. 69
    Redshift says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: When I was at an event in my office building lobby this afternoon, CNN was on (no sound.) Their headline under Trump speaking was pretty snarky:

    “After speaking with intelligence chiefs, Trump now says they were misquoted in their public testimony”

  70. 70
    Jay says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Miranda rights are only applicable to protect testimony produced under in custody interrogations,

    Stone was arrested on a Grand Jury warrant and was not interrogated by the FBI, he had a custody hearing infront of a judge.

  71. 71
    Redshift says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: We may have to settle for McConnell getting hit the same way as the NRA – by having his laundered Russian campaign cash cut off, damaging a big reason for people to stay loyal.

  72. 72
    Jay says:

    @John Revolta:

    The reason that they arn’t packing bags for parts unknown is that the non-extradition countries that would take them would either bury them, or burn them.

    None of the places filled with gullible rich white men will take them.

    They have no place to run to.

  73. 73
    Jeffro says:

    @Amir Khalid: But…but…this is the MOSTEST! Hack-o-riffic, that is…

  74. 74
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Police are only required to mirandize a suspect if they intend to interrogate that person while s/he is in custody.

  75. 75
    lgerard says:


    As Kingsley Amis wrote in The Anti-Death League

    i finally found someone else who read that book!

  76. 76
    Sebastian says:


    You might be right about him not being a target or in the sights but who knows who gets caught in the dragnet. McConnel has definitely Russian exposure. And then there is hia wife …

  77. 77
    Mai Naem mobile says:

    Wonder if Stone is going to end up being a victim of Putin. I don’t really care so you?

  78. 78

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    It’s not a requirement for the Miranda rights to be read during the arrest proper. Law enforcement offers up the Miranda stuff right before the interrogation part back at their offices, usually in the form of a signed document.

    We’ve developed the myth that you are read your rights right at the moment the cops nab you because the TV shows and movies would have them do the reading right then and there for story pacing (SEE Law and Order episodes especially the ones with Lenny Briscoe). Audiences don’t get the satisfaction of arrests if the suspect has to get dragged back to the station and required to sign a sheet of paper.

  79. 79

    @Mai Naem mobile:

    Stone may have more on Republicans than he has on Putin. If Stone has to worry about anybody it’s gonna be Mitch McConnell.

  80. 80
    sdhays says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: There’s a reason he hasn’t done it yet, despite it seeming very attractive to a lazy man with delusions of dictatorship like him – it’s because the likelihood of success isn’t very good and would likely split his supporters in Congress. With Democrats controlling the House, any declaration of a national emergency at the border will face an immediate resolution vetoing the declaration, and Senate Republicans will have to go on record as supporting it or vetoing it. That is NOT a vote they want to take, and I don’t think it’s a vote the ASSet would win.

    And having Congress veto the President would be an extraordinarily pathetic look for Trumpov.

  81. 81
    Aleta says:

    (WaPo) How Trump defenders try to play down charges against his associates

    Many of the charges brought so far by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III against those close to President Trump … involve similar charges of lying to investigators or to Congress. Trump’s supporters have been quick to dismiss such charges as mere “process crimes.”

    As a former federal prosecutor, I can tell you prosecutors don’t use the term “process crimes.” They just call them “crimes” and take them very seriously, because these crimes threaten the very foundations of the justice system.

    Dismissal of such charges as process crimes plays down their importance. It suggests the misconduct was not really serious or substantive but just some kind of rules violation. Such cases are frequently attacked as unfair or unjustified. Critics claim that prosecutors set “perjury traps” so they can trick otherwise innocent defendants into making a mistake and then charge them.

    This tactic is not new. For example, during the George W. Bush administration, another special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, investigated the leak of the identity of a covert CIA agent, Valerie Plame. I’ll never forget seeing a Republican United States senator saying she hoped that if there were indictments they would be for real crimes and not for a “technicality” such as perjury. (That investigation, by the way, resulted in the conviction of Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, for lying to the FBI and the grand jury about the White House’s role in the leak. President Trump recently granted Libby a controversial pardon, saying Libby had been “treated unfairly.”)

    Others seek to minimize the importance of such charges by claiming they would not even exist if it weren’t for the special counsel’s investigation itself. For example, Harvard law professor and frequent Mueller critic Alan Dershowitz recently argued that the “process crimes” with which Stone is charged are part of a pattern of Mueller charging crimes that arose out of his own inquiry, and that this should raise “serious concerns.”

    When it comes to the charges against Stone as well as those against Cohen, Dershowitz’s claim is simply not true. They were charged with lying to Congress, which was conducting its own investigation of possible Russian interference in the election. Those crimes took place independent of the Mueller investigation, and it was Mueller’s investigation that unearthed them.

    But whether they involved obstructing a congressional probe or Mueller’s own investigation, crimes such as false statements, perjury and obstruction of justice — sometimes referred to as coverup crimes — are not mere technicalities.

    In fact, they attack the justice system itself. Our legal system depends on the ability of finders of fact to receive truthful and accurate information. If witnesses lie in the grand jury, lie to the FBI, tamper with witnesses, destroy evidence or otherwise impede the due administration of justice, there must be consequences.
    … For the justice system to function, people must tell the truth — and must know they will pay a price if they don’t.

    Stone allegedly lied to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence while it was investigating a matter of grave importance: an unprecedented attack on our democracy by a hostile foreign government. Lies in such an investigation prevent Congress from getting to the bottom of what happened, informing the public and taking appropriate action.

    When announcing the Libby indictment in 2005, Fitzgerald analogized perjury and obstruction of justice to a baseball game where the defendant throws sand in the umpire’s eyes. Investigators are supposed to call the balls and strikes, determine what is fair and what is foul. These crimes make it impossible for them to see what really happened.

    Coverup crimes are prosecuted to deter conduct that undermines the justice system itself and to enforce our commitment to the rule of law. That’s why prosecutors, FBI agents, judges and others who make their living within the justice system take these crimes so seriously. So please, stop dismissing such charges as mere “process crimes.” The vital institutions that these prosecutions protect are ones on which we all depend.

  82. 82
    StringOnAStick says:

    @PaulWartenberg: reminds me of when my dad told me that the way to thaw frozen digits is to rub snow on them, based of course on an old Ronnie Reagan B movie scene. Exactly why would rubbing snow on frostbitten fingers and toes warm them up? It doesn’t but it looks on screen like something aggressive is being done, thus problem is heroically solved.

  83. 83
    plato says:

    @Aleta: Shorter rethugs: When we do it, nothing is a crime and none is a criminal.

  84. 84
    Mai Naem mobile says:

    @PaulWartenberg: Putin just comes across as a ‘ kill you with a neurotoxin drug’ guy. The GOP come across more like a ‘STFU and we’ll give you a pardon and golden parachute’ group

  85. 85
    frosty says:


    Basically none of these morons understand modern communications technology or that the internet is forever.

    Hell, I’m the same age as some of these losers and I understand that. My rule of thumb is “Don’t email anything that you don’t want somebody in Taiwan to read.”

    Or better, Mafia rules:
    Don’t email if you can write.
    Don’t write if you can phone.
    Don’t phone if you can talk.
    Don’t talk if you can nod.
    Don’t nod if you can wink.

  86. 86
    Aleta says:

    @dmsilev: Is the administration (JD or WH lawyers?) often told a day or so in advance of an indictment? If so, they ought to put Trump and handlers under a gag order from the time they’re informed until it’s handed down. I’m tired of what seem like preemptive statements, if that’s what they are.

  87. 87
    zhena gogolia says:


    Strangely enough, I read it too, but I do not remember a single thing about it. Lucky Jim, on the other hand, I have memorized.

  88. 88
    satby says:

    @Amir Khalid: at 10:30 at night it was the warmest it’s been in two days: -2°F.
    If it wasn’t night I’d be tempted to look for a bikini and catch some rays.

  89. 89
    frosty says:


    I wonder if Mr. Trump has ever set the table in his entire life?

    Probably at least once at that military school his father dumped him at (IIRC).

  90. 90
    Vhh says:

    @Jeffro: I checked on Thiessen via Wikipedia. He was employed by Manafort’s and Stone’s ratf**king firm, back under W, was a HUGE supporter of FBI and CIA investigations, including torture.

  91. 91
    Millard Filmore says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Why weren’t the FBI agents required to read Stone his Miranda rights?

    Over at there were a few comments along the lines of “they don’t need anything he might have to say.”

  92. 92
    lgerard says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Lucky Jim is certainly a classic, with one of the best descriptions of a hangover ever. After not reading much fiction for the last 20 years or so i recently had the desire to reread a few of his older books and was nonplussed to discover that the Boston Public Library has neither Girl, 20 nor I Want It Now.

  93. 93
    zhena gogolia says:


    “the fluttering mantelpiece”

  94. 94
    Aleta says:

    @plato: It’s been said that it was Cheney who leaked of the identity of a covert CIA agent and he made Libby take the fall. “Nothing is a crime and none is a criminal” was Cheney’s sacred text.

  95. 95
    lgerard says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    a small animal had used his mouth for a urinal, and then its mausoleum

  96. 96
    Keith P. says:

    @Aleta: Dershowitz….last case I recall him doing was a bang up job defending Mike Tyson of rape. Trump is gonna have to dig up Matlock to add to his legal dream team

  97. 97
    Dmbeaster says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: The warning has to be given in order to make use of anything the accused then says in response to questions. If you are not asking questions, you do not have to give the warning. If the accused runs his mouth because like Stone, he cannot shut his trap, those statements are admissible even though no warning was given, although its a fact question whether or not questions were asked. And the warning can be given later – not at the time of arrest, because the arresting officers may have no role in asking questions.

  98. 98
    Bill Arnold says:

    That’s a lot of devices and data, and what looks like some obfuscation (with possible intent to mislead) by Mueller & team about what they have (and when they obtained it). If they’re fishing for specific items of information, unless they get lucky they will require a lot of effort and time to find them. Also, if Stone had any competent comsec tech advice and followed it, they might be facing a wall[1] of encryption and secure deletions. If he was disciplined about it (hah!) then it would be harder. He’s had time to deal with his own devices at least.
    I’d missed this emptywheel piece in December. Some moderately informed speculation, that the investigators were perhaps able to do data recovery on seized, then hacked phones(?), to recover deleted (including auto-delete) Signal[2] texts.
    The Significance of the James Wolfe Sentence for Mike Flynn, Leak Investigations, and the Signal Application
    This doesn’t speak to encrypted voice calls, though. (Note this is about Wolfe, not Stone. And more at the link.)

    It was during this search, and after Wolfe had spoken with the FBI on three separate occasions about the investigation into the leak of classified information concerning the FISA application, that the FBI recovered fragments of his encrypted Signal communications with REPORTERS #3 and #4.

    [1] A real (metaphorical) wall, not a DJT god-emperor’s-new-wall :-)
    [2] I’m a Signal fan, FWIW. Would take additional measures though if deeply concerned about surveillance. e.g. encrypted voice calls, perhaps fork the open source code and set up a private server for establishing connections e.g. in some place that genuinely cares about privacy, perhaps other measures.

  99. 99
    CatFacts says:

    Luckily for the FBI, it’s not nearly as hard as it used to be to sift through mountains of electronic documents to find specific pieces of information. I don’t do corpus linguistics myself, but I know people who do, and there’s a lot of software out there that’s specifically made to scan through lots of documents and flag selected words or phrases. And a lot of people who know how to use it very efficiently.

  100. 100
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Jay: @Omnes Omnibus:
    @Dmbeaster: @PaulWartenberg:

  101. 101
    The Pale Scot says:

    Comments in Natasha Bertrand’s tweet has a link to an article I missed,

    How Stone and Manafort helped create the mess Trump promised to clean up

    The story of those two and C.Black starting a lobbying firm after working in Reagan’s campaign

  102. 102
    J R in WV says:

    @ Goku :

    Why weren’t the FBI agents required to read Stone his Miranda rights?

    They have to do that before they can interrogate or interview him, if they plan to use any of his statements in court/grand jury. So, not until they’re ready.

  103. 103
    David Evans says:

    @zhena gogolia: I’ve read those two, and most of his novels, but the one that sticks with me is The Green Man.

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