Late Night Mockery Open Thread: TRUMP v INTEL (the Neverending Battle)


103 replies
  1. 1
    Thor Heyerdahl says:

    Jeebus crist…the last 2 years have been an incredibly incoherent decade.

  2. 2
    Brickley Paiste says:

    So, wait, Trump met with intel people today, took group photo, posted it on twitter and said that they were all agreement with his threat assessment re Mexico and Iran.

    Don’t they have an obligation to step up and publicly rebuke him now?

  3. 3
    plato says:

    @Thor Heyerdahl: Feels more like a century.

  4. 4
    Thor Heyerdahl says:

    @plato: At the rate it’s going, the Precambrian will feel like a walk in the park.

  5. 5

    Gawd, I can barely stand to even read his words any more. Is he getting worse or am I just done?

  6. 6
    patrick II says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I think part of it is he has to reply to increasingly complex situations brought on by previous lies. He doesn’t have the capability.

  7. 7
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    For some reason, Jackie Robinson’s 100th birthday has the dimwits of the Right hurr-hurring about Democrats having been the party of slavery. Kevin Kruse tries to teach history to Matt Schlapp

    Kevin M. Kruse @ KevinMKruse
    Robinson had held out hope that the Republicans might turn away from the conservative path that Goldwater set them on — perhaps by nominating a moderate like George Romney — but Nixon’s nomination dashed that hope and convinced him to walk away for good.

    In his last years, Robinson became more outspoken, showing sympathy for Black Power protests and contempt for what he saw as false patriotism.
    “I cannot stand and sing the anthem,” he wrote in 1972. “I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world.”

    ETA : forgot the link to a long thread.

  8. 8
    JCJ says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I think it is like the description I have heard for how radiation treatments make a patient so tired – It is like you are climbing up a long, gradual hill and everyday you are given an additional rock to carry. By this point we have been climbing for two years and now we are carrying hundreds of rocks. Each additional step and each additional rock just makes us angrier. We will reach a point when we can bury him in all of rocks. I think that is why the Starbucks Coffee boy has gotten on people’s nerves so – he is another potential rock to carry.

  9. 9
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    on a lighter, but still Schlapp-related note

    Simon Maloy @ SimonMaloy
    my only good tweet is relevant again
    @ SimonMaloy
    “matt schlapp” is the sound made by two pork chops falling onto a linoleum floor

  10. 10
    Plato says:

    When malignant narcissists like Trump are engaging in destruction, it stops mattering whether or not they believe their lies. What matters is DAMAGE CONTAINMENT.

    While you’re trying to understand him, he’s singularly, ruthlessly focused on “winning” — whatever that means to him.
    — Leah McElrath (@leahmcelrath) January 31, 2019

  11. 11
    Plato says:

    Trump just makes shit up.
    I’m not even going to link to any video clips because they are distracting.
    We get caught up in our own denial watching because he appears vaguely human.
    But he’s a lying monster rambling about delusions and fabrications.
    This is insane.
    — Leah McElrath (@leahmcelrath) January 31, 2019

  12. 12
    Plato says:

    Just checking saying shit gets mod’ed.

  13. 13
    The Dangerman says:

    @Thor Heyerdahl:

    ….the last 2 years have been an incredibly incoherent decade.

    Ditto. Maybe it would make sense if we recorded it and played it backwards like The Beatles.

    “Donald is dead”

  14. 14
    Jay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “Let me set the scene.

    The year is 1946. The United States is deeply segregated. The birth of the civil rights movement that would begin as African-American soldiers returned home to Jim Crow, after fighting for democracy abroad, is still a good 10 years away.

    Newlyweds Jackie and Rachel Robinson leave their hometown of Pasadena, California, for Florida, where Jackie will become the first African-American to play organized, professional sports in the United States. When Rachel sees “whites only” signs for the first time in the airport bathroom, she takes a deep breath and walks in anyway, feeling scared, but proud and defiant. Neither Rachel nor Jackie had ever seen the heart of the Jim Crow South. They had no idea what awaited them.”

  15. 15
    Matt McIrvin says:

    So, leaving the INF treaty. Is this the end of the world? Because it seems like it might be the end of the world.

    Entering that treaty was really the beginning of the end of the Cold War and probably reduced the chances of a global nuclear war by a large factor. It was a firebreak keeping a local conflict in Europe from escalating to the Big One. Now that’s gone. With Trump and Putin in charge.

    We might be dead very soon.

  16. 16
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    re: Schultzian “centrist” douchebaggery, writ large

    also, too: the reflexive obsequious hat-in-hand complicity of the unctuous servile media corporatists to launch a “both-sides” lifeboat as a counter to both the transparent Trump/GOP fail (it’sa problem! even they recognize it!) and the concomitant “ooooh!-scary!” threat of surging “oooh!-scaaary!” leftism (also a problem! for *them*!)

    First off, really? This shit again? Is the media really gonna carry Howard Schultz longer’n his mother just cuz it reckons “the left” is more dangerous than the damnable devil(s) we know? Seriously?

    Apparently, yes, that is their position. Which is deeply, abidingly, exasperatingly discouraging. But: It is what it is. That is the field as it (ahem) lies. But:

    You know the saying “the left has been right about the right all along?” Incontrovertibly true. These people are exactly who we’ve long said they were. The only *genuine* surprise in any of it is that they are *even fucking worse* than many suspected. Which is really fucking saying something. (After thoroughly befouling yourself, you arrive at the bottom of the GOP barrel only to discover there’s a labyrinthine chasm awaiting beneath a false floor. Populated with monsters! No labyrinth complete without ’em!)

    KDrum has a link up (posted at 1:09 am today — waaaay past his bedtime) that got me thinking. Innit, he explores the mystery of the dog that din’t bark, i.e. alla the energy in the Dems’ ranks these days is coming from the left *and* the pleasant surprise is that there ain’t much, if any, objection coming *within* the Dem ranks to quash it. Peeps is out n proud these days, and ain’t much wretching wretched BlueDoggin vomit to clean up. (Hence the once-more-into-the-breach desperate need by the msm to interminably fluff the likes of Howard “Don’t-Touch-My-Shit!” Schultz. To play with a Voltaire quote: If Howard Schultz didn’t exist, it would be necessary to invent him. He wasn’t, so they did.)

    In times of yore, the Joe “Whose-Balls-Need-Washing-Now?-Lickspittle-Concern-Troll” Liebermans of the party could be indisputably counted upon to furrow their brows and maunder on endlessly about their grave concerns and to tamp down enthusiasm for progressive legislation. That was their job, their reason for being. But that ain’t really happening now with the Dems. (Good! Go us!). Question is: why?

    Drum posits that it is not that the Democratic Party has been taken over by leftists. Rather — the country itself has become increasingly aligned with leftist views. Pullquote:

    But what happens to tactical [Dem] centrists when, suddenly, national health care becomes a mainstream idea again?¹ Well, they were always for it privately, so they’re perfectly happy when it becomes OK to say so publicly. This seems like a shift to the left in the party, but it’s really more of a shift to the left in the nation. There have always been plenty of Democrats who were willing to talk about universal health care, but only recently have they become convinced that the public is ready to hear about universal health care. This explains why “centrists” aren’t fighting back very hard against the new lefties. For a lot of them, the reason is simple: they agree with them and always have.

    Granted, Howard Schultz is douche who gets high on his own self-regard, which, like space, appears to be infinite, but his true raison d’être is to act as a counterweight to the growing popularity of leftist energy with a return to DLC Third-Way “sensible centrism”. It’sa msm hail-mary to, ideally, quash, but more realistically, tamp down progressive enthusiasm with an eat-yer-vegetables Very Serious Persons “hard realities” No-Labels-wankfest agenda.

    And it is — through and through — bullshit.

    Slay the dragon.


  17. 17
    lgerard says:

    In an interview in the Oval Office, Mr. Trump called the talks “a waste of time”

    Yes, our system of government is “a waste of time”

    I don’t want to hear any republican who makes excuses for this guy ever mention “The Founding Fathers” again

  18. 18
    FelonyGovt says:

    So apparently it’s come out that Don Jr’s mysterious phone call after the Trump Tower meet was NOT to his dad? And Trump Sr is acting like that vindicates him?

    This all just makes you so, so tired.

  19. 19
    The Midnight Lurker says:

    “I lost massive amounts of money doing this job,” Trump tells NYT.

    What job?

  20. 20
    Mike in NC says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Leaving NATO is next on the Putin agenda that Fat Bastard is busy implementing. Interesting times. When will DOD say enough is enough and suddenly the scenario is straight out of “Seven Days in May”?

  21. 21

    @The Midnight Lurker: “doing” is also doing a lot of work in that sentence.

  22. 22
    FlipYrWhig says:

    “This is one of the great losers of all time” should be hung around Trump’s flabby orange neck forever.

  23. 23

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Democrats were the party of slavery in 1860.

  24. 24
    clay says:

    @FelonyGovt: That seems very dubiously sourced to me. “People briefed on the matter.” So the reporters didn’t see the info, nor did they talk to people who saw the info. It’s third-hand reporting, at best.

  25. 25
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @FlipYrWhig: trump declares his presidency “one of the greatest losers of all time”! Extry! extry! read all about it!

  26. 26
    opiejeanne says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I hear Alec Baldwin’s Trump voice when I read his tweets. It helps only a little.

  27. 27
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @clay: nobody, not even Tiffany or Barron, believes trump jr organized a meeting without Daddy’s approval. Proving that is something else. The Beast doesn’t text or email, I think the rest of them do. We’ll see.

    as a side note, it says so much about their relationship that Daddy sent The Son He Wished He’d Had as a back-up. Suck it, Junior!

  28. 28
  29. 29
    Jay says:


    “Unnamed sources”, from the Senate Commitee, ( ReThugs)

    Fuckery afoot,…..

    Let’s see what Meuller says.

  30. 30
    jl says:

    Let’s see what Alec Baldwin can do with this stuff. Real challenge to top the reality.

  31. 31
    Yarrow says:

    “This is not the money. This one of the great losers of all time. You know, fortunately, I don’t need money. This is one of the great losers of all time.

    Oh, that’s interesting. He’s now saying the job–the job of being President of the United States–is a loser. He’s blaming the job itself for his problems. Must mean he’s running out of options. That’s good news.

  32. 32
    Jay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    BTdubs, WMTC is written by a Bush Era US Political Refugee who made it to asylum in Canada.

  33. 33
    Ramalama says:

    I had a meeting today with a woman who was wearing very expensive gear. Chanel pearls, designer velvet that fit her perfectly. Silk shirt. French tip nails. Perfect coiff. So I’m in Quebec province, and she clearly deals with high-worth individuals – not me .. our meeting was for something else — and she very politely inquires in French, and I know what she’s going to say. She’s going to say how is it that the Americans elected Cheeto hands? But she’s clearly very successful and, truth be told, there are a few high-worth individuals nearby who like Trump (they’re obscenely HW). She’s going to make a little joke, right?

    But in fact she asks me how it is he’s still alive.

    I blink and then remember that I am in Quebec. Where the Canadians might be polite or the Quebecers might shiv you with a baguette. They remember martial law on the streets of Montreal, y’all.

  34. 34

    @Yarrow: Job’s a loser, White House’s a dump; maybe he should just leave.

  35. 35
    Aleta says:

    By Lisa Provence in Charlottesville Weekly
    A House of Delegates subcommittee, made up of eight white men, killed a bill that would let Virginia localities decide what to do with Confederate monuments.

    Following the August 12, 2017, Unite the Right rally that brought hundreds of white supremacists to Charlottesville, ostensibly to protest City Council’s vote to remove the statue of General Robert E. Lee in what’s now called Market Street Park, Delegate David Toscano carried [= sponsored] a bill to give localities control over their own war monuments. Current VA state law makes it illegal for anyone to remove a memorial commemorating any war. That bill died a quick death in subcommittee in 2018, and this year’s version specified Confederate monuments only.

    “It’s about local control,” Toscano told the subcommittee. “We give localities control of the cutting of weeds, but we haven’t yet given them control of monuments that might have a detrimental effect on the atmosphere and feelings of this community.”

    The 1902 statute protecting war memorials “popped up just at the time of Jim Crow,” said Toscano, at the “height of the so-called Lost Cause celebration of the Confederate contribution to the Civil War.”

    Subcommittee chair Charles Poindexter asked about the monuments, “Weren’t they also concurrent with the dying out of Confederate veterans?”

    Toscano rejected the notion that Virginia was involved in a “heroic battle” during the Civil War. “This was an effort to destroy the Union.”

    Justin Greenlee, who studies art and architectural history at UVA, told the subcommittee Confederate statues are “a monument to white supremacy,” and portray a “false story of history. They continue to intimidate.”

    Lisa Draine, whose daughter was injured when self-proclaimed neo-Nazi James Fields accelerated into a crowd, killing Heather Heyer, said, “I couldn’t imagine that the statues brought this to our town.”

    And Don Gathers, who served on the city’s Blue Ridge Commission on Race, Memorials and Public Spaces, implored the subcommittee: “Please recognize the hatred these statues brought to descend upon our city.”

    Ned Gallaway, Albemarle Board of Supervisors chair, and City Councilor Kathy Galvin both stressed the importance of local control over Confederate monuments.

    Ultimately, no one was surprised that a House of Delegates subcommittee, made up of eight white men, killed a bill that would let Virginia localities decide what to do with Confederate monuments
    “They knew when we walked in what they would do with that bill,” said Toscano following the January 30 meeting. The subcommittee has five Republican and three Democrats, and one of the Dems joined in the 6-2 vote against the bill.

    About a dozen Charlottesville supporters of the bill, including two elected officials, came for the 7:30am meeting of Counties, Cities and Towns Subcommittee #1. Some held signs during the proceeding: “Local authority for war memorials,” “Truthful history heals,” and “Lose the Lost Cause.”

    And five opponents of the bill, none of whom were from Charlottesville, spoke against local control of Confederate monuments in public places.

    Among the bill’s opponents was Chesterfield resident Ed Willis, who said the bill was unconstitutional. “It’s painfully clear that discrimination based on national origin—on Confederate national origin—is the purpose of this bill.” He also said the legislature couldn’t do anything that would affect the ongoing lawsuit against the city and City Council for its vote to remove both the Lee and General Stonewall Jackson monuments.

  36. 36
    Aleta says:

    @Jay: Thank you for this.

  37. 37
    Yarrow says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That he said those things at all is a tell that he’s recognizing that he’s trapped. He can never blame himself–always has to blame something external. So it’s the job’s fault. It’s also a tell that he’s at least thought about walking away.

    I think this is good news. He’s at the point where he’s telling reporters he doesn’t like the job. He knows things are getting bad.

  38. 38
    frosty says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I beg to differ. Using dengre’s analysis, the Confederate Party is the party od slavery. They were allied with rhe Democrats since 1860 until Nixon won them over with the Southern Strategy and brought them in as allies to the Republicans.

    Since then? It appears that what’s called Republican is entirely the Confederate Party. I don’t know what became if the Republicans.

  39. 39
    opiejeanne says:

    @Ramalama: Obscenely HW? What is HW?

    Oh, High Worth. Duh.

  40. 40
    Yarrow says:

    @opiejeanne: In the context of that comment I think it’s “high-worth.”

  41. 41
    FelonyGovt says:

    @clay: @Jim, Foolish Literalist:Yeah, I was dubious. Mueller doesn’t leak and where else would it come from. In any event, even if Don Jr’s call WASN’T to Daddy Dearest, it’s beyond belief that he wouldn’t have run upstairs right away to tell him about it.

  42. 42
    Salty Sam says:

    I had no idea what to expect the first time I did a hit of Orange Sunshine. I am feeling the same way these days when I try to make sense of his tweets…

  43. 43
    opiejeanne says:

    @Yarrow: Thanks. I figured it out as soon as I posted it.

  44. 44
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    Will be completely unsurprised if it turns out Trump pere was himself present, snorting approval with wattles rattling.

  45. 45
    Jay says:


    Welcome, don’t forget to go back from time to time for a tour of Port Hardy, the north tip of Vancouver Island and some of the smaller villages.

    I suggested a while ago they take a trip out to Brooks Penninsula in the summer. Probably the only place in the world where you can have an entire 5km beach all to yourself for a week.

  46. 46
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    This is mostly Putin’s fault, that arrogant fuck with a god-complex. Nothing matters for him, only his own personal power. Doesn’t matter if he’s endangering the future of humanity, he’ll probably be dead before then so who gives a shit? And anyway, he’s a 12th-level intellect, so he’ll be able to stop the world from ending while he’s still alive. Or so he thinks.

  47. 47
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:


    “It’s painfully clear that discrimination based on national origin—on Confederate national origin—is the purpose of this bill.”

    Did someone tell the asshole that’s there no such thing as a “Confederate national origin”?

  48. 48
    Jay says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Confederate National Origin = Treason in Defence of Slavery.

  49. 49
    dmsilev says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: I’ll allow it, just as soon as a complaint is entered into the record by an ambassador from the Confederacy, one with official US State Department accreditation as a foreign diplomat.

  50. 50

    @Salty Sam:

    I had no idea what to expect the first time I did a hit of Orange Sunshine.

    Did you call President Carter?

  51. 51
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    What’s even better is that they’re supposedly for small government but not when it comes to their goals and values, especially when it suits them. What hypocricy and arrogance to forbid localities to choose what to do with these monuments. That’s why several were pulled down and destroyed by locals in places like NC. They were angry not only at what the statues themselves represented, but at being lectured and talked down to by old white assholes who didn’t live in their communities.

  52. 52
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    I think this is good news. He’s at the point where he’s telling reporters he doesn’t like the job. He knows things are getting bad.

    Perhaps. It’s decidedly indicative of his boundless capacity for self-pity. Problem is, from his repugnant point of view, what does he do? Trump’s a cornered-rat, which inspires him whinge like your every other standard-issuel Republican in thrall to an unjustified persecution complex, but he knows he loses all leverage if he leaves office, so he stays. Trump is an invincibly stupid person with a militant ignorance, but he does possess a low animal cunning for survival. Not sure his whining means much more than mounting frustration, but would of course be happy to be mistaken.

    Trump is the dumb fucker who ran for president, never expecting to win, and then he “did”. The irony being: Trump and the GOP prolly woulda skated on everything had he lost. This, to me, is the only glimmer of good that (please!please!please!) may come of this travesty: repudiation and redress.

    Somehow the old Yiddish curse keeps leaping to mind: May you get what you wish for.

  53. 53
    sukabi says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork: he was probably video conferenced in…

  54. 54
    sukabi says:

    @The Midnight Lurker: he’s siphoned massive amounts of money sitting on his toilet sharting out tweets.

  55. 55
    Redshift says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Yeesh. Makes me even more motivated to throw these assholes out in November.

  56. 56
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    Plausibly perfect. The Russians prolly hadda work extra hard to get him to shut the fuck up about himself long enough to dangle the juicy treason bait he Pavlovianly devoured.

  57. 57
    Yarrow says:

    I guess Howard Schultz is getting all the media attention, but Marianne Williamson is also running for president. She’s running as a Democrat. I know. Who? She’s written self-help or spiritual books that were big in the 1990’s and is on the lecture circuit. She seems to be taking her run more seriously than some candidates (**cough** coffee boy **cough**), since she’s already sat down for an interview with the Des Moines Register.

  58. 58
  59. 59
    gene108 says:

    @The Midnight Lurker:

    Losing money is what he deserves by not doing the ethical thing and divesting his stake in his business

  60. 60
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    Confederate National Origin = Treason in Defence of Slavery.

    Walter Sobchak, always looking on the bright side of life:

    Nihilists! … Fuck me! I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.

  61. 61
    Ruckus says:

    I’ve been through radiation therapy. 9 weeks, every day.
    It’s not a lot of fun, it’s time consuming, there is risk of treatment of course and you are doing it because you have cancer.

    It’s not even fucking close to this bad.
    You’d have to walk up every hill and mountain in the world carrying shit for brains for it to come close to how bad this shit is.

  62. 62
    Jay says:



    “Ethos is a Greek word meaning “character” that is used to describe the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, nation, or ideology. The Greeks also used this word to refer to the power of music to influence emotions, behaviours, and even morals. ”

    Needs to read some actual History of National Socialism.

  63. 63
    Ruckus says:

    @The Midnight Lurker:
    It’s hard work to be the ultimate fuck up. But there are two ways to achieve this goal. First, you have to work at doing everything wrong, and the law of averages should catch up at some point. Or just be such a shit of a human that the law of averages doesn’t even like you.

  64. 64
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    Twere, of course, a mordant joke wrappt inna Big Lebowski ref, but not following your reply in response. Is Lebensraum notta ethos? Is Aryaniasm notta ethos? Granted, they are both vile by-products of militaristic ethno-nationalism, but is that notta ethos?

    I ain’t tryn’ta ride you (I enjoy and learn from a lotta your comments), but I genuinely don’t unnerstand what you are saying and am wondering if I missed something or if you just disagree and why?

    (Notta biggee, just confoozled and looking for clarification.)

  65. 65
    Redshift says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    What’s even better is that they’re supposedly for small government but not when it comes to their goals and values, especially when it suits them.

    It’s always been a lie. Sometimes they’re for “states rights” because government that’s “closer to the people” knows better, but mysteriously they aren’t for devolving the power of states to localities. Other times they’re for the federal government preempting when states do something wrong.

    The only actual consistency is that they’ll support whatever level of government gets them what they want, and pretend that they’re doing it out of principle, not just raw power.

  66. 66
    Aleta says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:
    He seems to be opposing discrimination… The real Confederate nationals must be rebel-muttering in their graves.

  67. 67
    Sebastian says:

    Four new sealed dockets filed today in DC.

    Any bets who? Can you imagine if DJTjr is one of them?

  68. 68
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork: Interesting to read this after watching part of a YouTube video of the JimBakker show from either today or yesterday.

    Wallnau, touted by Bakker as the expert on Evangelical theology, positions, etc, said that the whole democratic brand is on the brink of failure. No one in the middle America believes in what they are promoting–not even most Democrats.

    He went on and on about how the new dems in Congress and the young people of the country are so vulnerable to anti-American socialism because ‘we have allowed them to be taught by university profs who do not believe in America.’

    I’ve watched bits of his show for the last 2 yrs or so. This week the hosts and guests have been really–dare I say–shrill about the danger to their world.

    They were nearly in tears over Mrs Pence being attacked ‘for teaching in a Christian school’ and over how Trump supporters are attacked just for wearing a MAGA hat ‘like those poor kids we all saw on TV’ (showing pic of CovCath boys in a crowd–NOT the smirking in face of the Native American).

    They attacked Schumer, Pelosi by name and AOC with a screen shot as they talked about dems and young people being lost to anti-American socialism. Normally they just go on about Christians being persecuted in general terms. Now they are attacking people by name.

    I felt a definite change–they seem now to be very scared that they no longer control how the country views the world.

    Something is changing –what these mostly older white people in Bakker’s audience in his large studio in his big compound near Branson will do is a question to be answered.

  69. 69
    ruemara says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork: How about “we were already left to begin with, so there was no “takeover””? Sheesh.

  70. 70
    hervevillechaizelounge says:


    Is it weird I saw the name Jim Bakker and the word ‘evangelical’ in the same sentence and assumed you were talking about Tammy Faye’s husband?

    I agree that something is changing with the revanchists. There’s always a gnashing of teeth when the ruling class is surpassed, but in some ways we’re off the map—I have no idea what the constant stream of Russian / right-wing disinformation is going to do to these folks.

    Call me a pessimist but I expect it won’t be good.

  71. 71
    smike says:

    Off our meds, are we?

  72. 72
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    Off our meds, are we?


    Humor me: Your objection is what, exactly?

  73. 73
    Martin says:

    @Sebastian: Mueller won’t go after his kids until he goes after Trump.

    My guess is Mueller is going to pull in the Cambridge Analytica guys. Then maybe the NRA.

  74. 74
    smike says:


    Humor me: Your objection is what, exactly?

    I thought I was being humorous, but I guess fail. I know you use that technique occasionally and was simply acknowledging the occasion on that particular comment. Didn’t mean to offend.

  75. 75
    hilts says:

    Trump’s latest moronic statements are a bloodcurdling scream that the 25th Amendment needs to be invoked. He’s out of his goddamn motherfucking mind and needs to be removed from office and admitted to a psychiatric hospital.

  76. 76
    hilts says:


    Can you imagine if DJTjr is one of them? Hopefully him and the Kushmeister.

  77. 77
    Sebastian says:


    Yes, seems about right. CA guys for sure. Possibly Brad Parscale, too early for Bannon and the Mercers.

    I have a long shot bet: Lewandowsky and/or Kelly-Anne. They were campaign managers, weren’t they?

  78. 78
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    Tx. for comeback. I apologize for missing the snark. (Nothing worse’n having to explain a jest.)

    Hadn’t had an interaction with you before, but I (try’n) allus give folks the benefit of the doubt (unless and until it becomes evident it ain’t deserved). I very much am glad I din’t go with my first impression. Thought you were fucking with me. Glad I asked, sorry for being a lil slow on the uptake.

  79. 79
    Sebastian says:


    Come sit by me.

    As much as I want it, I tend to agree with Martin. It’s too early, the kids will be scooped up shortly before or after Donnie gets handcuffed.

    But who knows, this could get very weird.

    Legal eagles, I have a (probably stupid) question:
    What happens if a number of senators were to be indicted, possibly end up in jail. Would the two thirds rule of the senate lower the required votes for impeachment?

  80. 80
  81. 81
    Ruckus says:

    Yes, the ideal solution. A new, stylish wrap around jacket with the extra long sleeves

  82. 82
    NotMax says:



    Ooh, the number 27 reserved for someone special?


    Turns out the requirement is for 2/3 of the senators present.


  83. 83
    Sebastian says:


    So if Roger’s stash contains evidence for GOP senators’ involvement in illegal chicanery …

  84. 84
    opiejeanne says:

    @Sebastian: They need to bring down Pence too. I am convinced he’s in this up to his neck, as it McConnell.

  85. 85
    Tony Jay says:



    I had to LOL yesterday when some wag on the WAPO Comment site referred to that entire branch of the Khristian Konservative Koalition as “Ivangelicals”.

    Never heard that before, but it works for me. Pithy.

  86. 86
    Sebastian says:


    Because he is the Senate tie-breaker?

    At this point who does not need to brought down?

  87. 87
    Martin says:

    @Sebastian: Because he was in charge of the transition. It was his job to make sure that, I don’t know, the National Security Advisor wasn’t working for Turkey. Pence is so fucking stupid, that it’d be reasonable to assume he didn’t know how to do his job, but fuck, he’s the VP-elect, and then he lied about the whole thing.

  88. 88
    Sebastian says:


    Oh yes, it was more curiosity on my end what opiejeanie meant.

    Pence is toast. Rep Cummings sent him a letter back then. It’s going to be interesting with that topic coming front and center soon.

  89. 89
    hilts says:


    Somewhere in this world there is a gold lame straitjacket with Donald Trump’s name emblazoned upon it. The fate of the world is in the hands of a constipated, raving, drooling neanderthal and Mitch McConnell and every other single Republican currently serving in Congress needs to burn in Hell for eternity.

  90. 90
    hilts says:

    @Sebastian: @Sebastian:

    I hope some federal prison can allocate a special cell block for the whole fucking Trump family. They are pure, unadulterated trash and the sooner they get swept into the trash receptacle of history the better!

  91. 91
    Jay says:


    Shifted over time, and was mixed in with what they fed the rubes.

    In the final end of National Socialist “ethos”, it was swallowing a pill or committing suicide to avoid realitybor a trial,

    Well over 250,000 “National Socialists” took that path after May 8, 1945.

    National Socialism was always 30% racist popualism, 30% stabbed in the back mythology, 30% race hate and 10% “issue of the day”.

    Compare that to “ethos”.

  92. 92
    Kay says:


    It’s not just conservatives in Branson. It’s the elite faction too:

    One reason the wealthy donors are so amenable to investing so much in education is alarm about the next generation. Recent polling shows younger people have a more favorable impression of socialism than capitalism. “The younger generation is less sympathetic and less understanding of limited government conservatism,” said Art Pope of North Carolina, a fixture of Koch meetings. “They’re more sympathetic or more willing to give not just social justice but outright socialism a chance. … It used to be you didn’t have to have a serious conversation about socialism in American politics. Now you do. So what is the appeal of that? How do you message?”

    I feel like we know from decades and decades past that they won’t do anything on their economic message- they seem to know it’s unpopular- instead they’ll just double down on things like scary brown caravans and lying about late term abortion.

    It is amusing how scared they are of the Left turn of the youths, though. This Koch initiative is sophisticated and complicated and it’s been in the works for a while, so it wasn’t inspired by AOC, but she seems to be the symbol of literally everything they are afraid of.

  93. 93
    Kay says:

    Democrats already have a rich, bipartisan Presidential candidate:

    Why I’m Running for President
    “The American people are far greater than the sum of our political parties. It is time for us to rise above our broken politics and renew the spirit that enabled us to achieve the seemingly impossible. This is why I am running for the Democratic nomination for President of the United States.”

    Why doesn’t he get Schultz-level coverage?

  94. 94
    John S. says:


    You’re seriously debating the merit of a comment from a movie – which in context made perfect sense.

    Nihilism = believe in nothing
    Ethos = believe in something

    Based on the context of the dialogue and and that construct, stating that Nazis had an ethos is accurate – regardless of whether their beliefs were logical, consistent or even congruent.

  95. 95
    NotMax says:


    Quota on number of empty platitudes permitted broadcast per day?


  96. 96
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    No disagreement about what NatSoc was. Agree with alla your points listed above, but even an unconscionable murderous ideology is still an ethos.

    From your definition: @Jay:

    Ethos is a Greek word meaning “character” that is used to describe the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, nation, or ideology.

    Hitler told everyone who he was (and, imo) defined an ethos in Mein Kampf. People (largely) didn’t believe that his ravings were meant sincerely. But they were. Which Germany and the world found out to its tragic cost.

    Lebensraum and Aryianism were “guiding beliefs” that “characterized a nation” and a helluva lotta people either bought into or were coopted by and got steamrolled with those beliefs that characterized a nation.

    Horrifying, but still an ethos.

    (Will concede that none of this matters much, cuz it’s largely pedantic, *except* think if a society does not acknowledge a horrifying but very real ethos and counteract it on its (de)merits before it develops to maturity, lotta atrocities may ensue, e.g. the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition. Whistling past the graveyard b/c somebody’s lunatic ravings are absurd don’t mean they can’t succeed.)

    It’s distinction w/a difference, imo, but ymmv.

  97. 97
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:


    Agree completely. Pence is complicit at minimum, if not an active participant.

    Wrote an op-ed for our local fish-wrap just after Twitler fired Comey, then confessed to obstruction of justice to millions of people with Lester Holt and then the very next day, did the same thing with his minders Lavrov and Kislyak in the White House.

    Long story short: Called for Trump’s impeachment and cautioned our Alaskan Trumpsters — which are legion — that if they weren’t careful and continued to hold fast to their burning dirigible, they’d wind up with President Pelosi.

    Given the risk-averse society we live in, there’s prolly not much chance of that happening, but I live in hope. (Why notta two-for-one special on impeachment, then let Nancy decide on her veep?)

    (No, it was not published. They were willing to publish parts of it — this will astonish all, I”m sure, but it were some long — but what they were willing to print was a critique that excluded the call for impeachment, which was purty much the point, so opted for a pass.)

  98. 98
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Jay: @Aleta: all of Vancouver Island is unbelievably beautiful (I grew up in Victoria, so I may be biased). I get back there when I can so see friends and family, but not nearly often enough.

    Where in BC are you, Jay?

  99. 99
    CliosFanboy says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: so were Southern Whigs.

  100. 100
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork: Heinlein once famously wrote (& stuck into the mouth of Woodrow Wilson Smith bka Lazarus Long, his 2000-year-old curmudgeon) that “the second best way to lie is to tell the truth, but not all of it.”

    Most forget that he continued (I paraphrase)

    The best way to lie is to tell the truth, and tell all of it, but in a manner that your audience is convinced you’re lying.

    Schiklgruber’s Mein Kampf used to be the outstanding example – before Cheetoh Benito hit the world stage.

  101. 101
    Ramalama says:

    @opiejeanne: Yeah sorry – I just realized how I’d muddied my own point. Which is rich people in another country are surprised that someone hasn’t offed the cheeto yet. I hear that more frequently here but never when I’m back in MMMerica.

  102. 102
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @NotMax: So if a GOP Senator knew that Trump or Pence or whoever needed to be removed from office, s/he could advance that process while avoiding any responsibility for it by simply staying away from the Senate chamber at the time of the vote. If the Senate was 50-50 and Presuming the Democrats had an airtight case in the Senate were united in voting for removal, the Turtle or his successor would simply divide the Thug caucus into those who (on the basis of their constituencies) need to be seen as defending the accused, and those who need to duck the issue. Allow (ETA: a number no greater than 1/2 of the Democratic membership of) the latter to show up & vote No, generate excuses for absence for the rest, & you place the responsibility for removal entirely upon the “Demonrats.” You think they wouldn’t try something like this, think again.

    On another note:

    Article I, Section 5, of the United States Constitution provides that “Each House [of Congress] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member.

    My question here is 2/3 of what? The entire membership (less the member in question, who presumably could not vote on his own expulsion), or only those present at the time of the vote? Unclear; doesn’t say; & with the thoroughly corrupt Federal judiciary as it exists, certain to be decided in whatever way keeps the maximum number of Thugs in office. :^(

  103. 103
    opiejeanne says:

    @Sebastian: Because none of us wants to hear the words: President Pence.

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