Elections Have Consequences Open Thread: Steve ‘Pigmuck’ King Is Abandoned by His Repub Cronies


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Eighteen years of big-mouth bigotry from his national perch, but now the GOP is shocked, shocked to discover that Pigmuck King is a bigot!


Bonus points: The Weathervane of the GOP has spoken!

Let. Us. Savor…

118 replies
  1. 1
    Mike E says:

    Hey, fcuk that guy!

  2. 2
    Martin says:

    Honestly, his constituents have no use for him if he’s off Ag committee. That’s a big deal.

  3. 3
    Barbara says:

    I would say this is mostly to protect Joni Ernst.

  4. 4
    Ruckus says:

    It will never be too soon to see him go.
    I wonder if his pall bearers will be wearing white robes and pointy hoods?

  5. 5
    hells littlest angel says:

    He did the one thing Republicans won’t tolerate with racism. He went too far.

  6. 6
    plato says:

    because he was always close to a caucus when every Republican in the country would have to kiss his ring.

    What caucus was that, teanuts?

  7. 7
    Eric U. says:

    they can’t even do this right, their big talking point is the dems should do the same with everyone that has ever met with Farrakhan, who is a Trump supporter.

  8. 8
    Jeffro says:

    @Barbara: I’d agree with that 110%. She’s one of their best hopes for a GOP “trumpov who?” resurgence in 2020 or 2024, and they know it.

    It’s great seeing King go down in flames like this but let’s hear some WH media folks ask trumpov for his opinion? Is the GOP “going soft”? Are they “abandoning ‘very fine people’?” Inquiring minds want to know!

  9. 9
    Ken says:

    “Abandoned” is perhaps premature, especially if – as someone said in the comments to an earlier thread – removing him from committees requires the unanimous vote of the Republican caucus.

  10. 10
    Jeffro says:

    @hells littlest angel: “he went too far” = “he exposed the long con”

  11. 11
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Estevan Rey has only been a white pointy hat and a brown shirt with a black-white-red armband short of being in the open.

    He can’t be ejected from the House soon enough, IMHO.

  12. 12
    Mike J says:

    Republicans are the party of identity politics. Republicans are the party of identity politics. Republicans are the party of identity politics. Republicans are the party of identity politics. Republicans are the party of identity politics.

  13. 13
    smike says:

    @hells littlest angel:
    I’ll bet it’s more a case of “said the quiet part out loud.”

  14. 14
    hitchhiker says:

    This is not hard to understand at all!

    Steve King is a classic whipping boy. He’s been designated to absorb all the venom Republican politicians would actually like to inflict on Trump but don’t dare.

    King is of course the very same racist asshole he’s always been, and that makes him an easy target for the rage they know is appropriate for Trump too.

    They’re hoping that if they demonstrate their “good guy” bona fides by hounding King out of office, they won’t have to deal with Trump.

  15. 15
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @hells littlest angel: He stop using code and started using an air raid siren. This is a no-no, much as the scum of the Birch Society were persona non grata back in the day while National Socialist Review was allowed in the tent, because they coded their Buckley’s white supremacist views.

  16. 16
    Adam L Silverman says:

    From 5 NOV 2018:

  17. 17
    mark says:

    Lets everybody know what the people of Iowa are like. Not much to be admired there.

  18. 18
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Barbara: Ya think?

  19. 19
    Ruckus says:

    @Martin:
    Yeah that’s going to make it hard for them to vote for him in 2 yrs.

    @Barbara:
    Probably the only reason. Didn’t the other districts in Iowa turn dem? Iowa’s electoral votes went to President Obama. Both times. They didn’t do so good last time around.

  20. 20
    sdhays says:

    I think his big mistake was slipping in “white supremacy” with “white nationalism” (which is a euphemism for white supremacy) and “western civilization”, which is a dog whistle in context and thus could be waved away. He got sloppy because he’s been getting away with more and more outrageous things so he thought he was untouchable.

    He also spectacularly failed to grasp that with Nancy Pelosi in charge of the House, Democrats would finally have the power and the will to make him pay.

  21. 21
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Watching trump screech about Comey, calling him a liar and a “dirty cop”, at what point does that kind of poo-flinging become slander?

  22. 22
    B.B.A. says:

    He’s just saying what they’re all thinking.

    Which, needless to say, is why they need to be wiped off the face of the earth.

  23. 23
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ruckus: He’s more of a Black Legion type of guy.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legion_(political_movement)

  24. 24
    Mike J says:

    @mark:

    Lets everybody know what the people of Iowa are like.

    Idiots Out Walking Around?

  25. 25
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Eric U.: I give it fifteen minutes before Ben Shapiro goes after Congresswoman Tlaib because she’s pro-Palestinian. Of course someone will have to hose him off to get his attention away from Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez.

  26. 26
    m0nty says:

    It was revenge for Billy Batts, and a lot of other things. And there was nothing that we could do about it. Batts was a made man and Tommy wasn’t. And we had to sit still and take it. It was among the Italians. It was real greaseball shit. They even shot Tommy in the face so his mother couldn’t give him an open coffin at the funeral.

  27. 27
    suffragettecity says:

    He was expendable.
    hahahaha
    fk him and the GOP

  28. 28
    lollipopguild says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Gee, I wonder what Rudy’s friends in the New York FBI office think of Comey? Do they think that Comey was a “Dirty” cop?

  29. 29
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Mike J:
    You can say that again.

  30. 30
    Mike J says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Check your contact us email.

    Watergirl: ask Adam for contact info.

  31. 31
    plato says:

    @mark: @Mike J: IA did send 3 dems out of 4 to congress this year. And pigmuck king barely scrapped through with under 3%.

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The new talking points have been circulated:
    First appearance (from another shonda for the goyim):

    Second appearance several hours later by former Hennepin County inmate:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/usanow/2014/05/22/fox-news-anchor-arrested/9427551/

  33. 33
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: it’s almost impossible to bring a successful defamation claim against a public figure

    Note for the kids: “slander” is defamation that is spoken, while “libel” is defamation that is printed. Learning is fun!

  34. 34
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike J: You’re not the boss of me!//

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Steve in the ATL: it’s almost impossible to bring a successful defamation claim against a public figure

    You’re no fun anymore

  36. 36
    Suzanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I just went over to Breitbart, as I occasionally do, in order to remind myself how stupid our enemies are. (Hint: really fucking stupid.)

    They’re all blathering about “what’s racist about being a white supremacist?”. If they didn’t vote, they’d be hilarious.

    There are about 5% of the necessary commas in their prose.

  37. 37
    waratah says:

    The trouble is they think they can say or do anything and nothing happen to them. I hope the next time Grassley acts like a pig we can get his hands slapped too. I hope that Cruz with his slimey fake Texan accent is next. Cruz was by Trumps side in McAllen while Trump not only wants to give the Rio Grand back to Mexico he wants to use Texas disaster money to do it. Ok I feel better now.

  38. 38
    Raoul says:

    Ronna McRomney’s tweet has to be seen to be believed. And then mocked, please.

    She has to dredge up Farrakhan to salve her butthurt over King being defenestrated from every one of his committees. Delightfully, laughably absurd of her.

  39. 39
    Mike J says:

    @plato: Mine was a line that I learned when I was at a big 10 school that was not Iowa. I actually have many ancestors from there, including a great^nth grandfather buried on the capitol grounds because he donated the land.

  40. 40
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Slander and libel basically don’t exist when you’re talking about a public figure. But obstruction of justice might apply. 😈

  41. 41
  42. 42
    Quinerly says:

    @Raoul: hilarious thread. Thanks for linking.

  43. 43
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And yet they mocked the AbolishICE crowd …

  44. 44
    Raoul says:

    Also, semi- maybe-relatedly, this:

    @atrupar
    ggreenwald goes on Tucker Carlson’s white power hour during the very last segment of his Monday night show and defends Tulsi Gabbard

    @atrupar
    “Good to be with you Tucker, thanks” — something to keep in mind next time Greenwald attacks MSNBC or CNN

  45. 45
    oldgold says:

    @mark:

    Not really.

    Iowa is a purple state. 3 of its 4 Congressional Districts are currently represented by Democrats. Obama carried the State in ‘08 and ‘12.

    The far northwest corner of Iowa, with a high concentration of Dutch Reformed voters, is ruby red and has been key to King’s political strength.

  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: What happens if I write down the defamation and then read it out loud? What’s that called?

  47. 47
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Suzanne: It is amazing what people will do for large sums of money. Pollack came from a very public anti-apartheid Jewish family in his native South Africa. Now he’s a Jewish alt-right curious Bannon protege in the US. That’s a hell of a trajectory.

  48. 48
    Martin says:

    @Adam L Silverman: They could call the new agency ‘Protection Squadron’.

  49. 49
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Who could’ve ever imagined?

  50. 50
    Mary G says:

    Who knew?In the 1640's the Dutch inhabitants of New Amsterdam built a 12' wall to keep the bad guys out. The British ignored the wall and took New Amsterdam by sea. It's now called New York. They took down the wall and built a street. It's called Wall St. https://t.co/4RvhLI11Y7— Barbara Hershey (@BarbaraHershey8) January 14, 2019

  51. 51
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Raoul: I’m going to laugh my ass off when Bolsanaro rounds him and his husband up and sends them off to sexual reeducation camps.

  52. 52

    @Adam L Silverman: as usual we are all shocked by all this gambling I’m sure.

  53. 53
    gwangung says:

    @Mary G: Heh. I knew this. I go to a fair number of plays by Native Americans. The amount of history you can soak up just in passing….

  54. 54
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Martin: I’d go with Protection Force. That way it sounds right at home with Space Force and Rake Force.

  55. 55
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Jeremy Bash just said on MSNBC that trump’s toadies were researching how/whether the US could unilaterally withdraw. On Wikipedia. Only the best people.

    I wonder if this is what has the neocons twitterbating about Mattis making a primary challenge to trump.
    ETA: Now… Mattis retiring to Charleston and primarying Lindsey Graham… that would call for popcorn.

  56. 56
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: slander, until you publish the written part, then it’s both slander and libel.

    Sorry, couldn’t think of a clever response so I was reduced to a serious one.

    Fun fact: Georgia has a special tort called “defamacast” which is defamation that has been broadcast on tv or radio. What’s the point of this law? No idea—it’s just slander but with a made up name.

  57. 57
    Suzanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Also, a lot of not-exceptionally-bright people are insecure about their relative dimness, and become contrarian to feel smarter.

  58. 58
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And he’ll be waiting in vain for the US State Dept to protest his imprisonment, not realizing until it’s too late that he’s no longer a useful idiot.

  59. 59
    Mike in DC says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s Putin’s wet dream. Well, and Rand Paul’s, probably. Likely the only US Senator who’d vote for it.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: In his book, Rick Wilson explained that he made an effort to get Mattis to run for president in 2016. It would not surprise me in the least if Wilson were to make another effort to get Mattis to do so.

  61. 61
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Suzanne: In this case I think it’s because he’s paid very handsomely in money supplied by the Mercers.

  62. 62
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Suzanne: I disagree.

    Wait a minute—that means I’m stupid. Damn it!

  63. 63
    Eric U. says:

    I’m staring at the pictures of trump being so proud of soggy fast food at the White House. What an idiot.

  64. 64
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Suzanne:

    Any 5-year-old knows how easy it is to be a contrarian. Some people are never able to mature past that.

  65. 65
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike in DC: The Russians, and before that the Soviets, have pumped a lot of money into Ron Paul’s endeavors over the decades.

  66. 66
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think you’ve mentioned you’re a Captain Marvel fan, so you’ve probably read this comic: Superman/Shazam: First Thunder.

    I admit only read the last issue, but it was incredible. I really liked the part where Superman learns who Captain Marvel really is and then confronts the wizard Shazam on his choice to give such a responsibility to a young boy. You really feel the anger and indignation that Superman feels. The ending where Superman takes Billy under his wing is really heartwarming. I wish that could have been in the main continuity.

  67. 67
    Mike J says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And he’ll be waiting in vain for the US State Dept to protest his imprisonment,

    Want them to tell him, “sorry, we’re all deep state here.”

  68. 68
    Martin says:

    Reminder that California is different, and is a looking-glass into the future of the US.

    One distinction: the demographic makeup of Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD)’s teachers compared with the district’s student body. In Los Angeles, 73 percent of students are Latino and another 15 percent or so are other racial minorities. Latino educators account for 43 percent of LAUSD’s teaching force this school year, district data show, up from 41 percent the year prior, while their white counterparts make up 34 percent. (Black and non-Filipino Asian teachers each account for about 10 percent, while 3 percent of educators are Filipino and just under 1 percent are either Native American or Pacific Islander.)

    These statistics are striking when compared with the national landscape: Of the millions of educators who teach in the country’s public schools—where more than half of the nearly 51 million students are children of color—a whopping 80 percent are white.

    Voting coalitions are changing. Political power is shifting. Democrats need to be in front of that. Look at Harris’ positions carefully – she sees it.

  69. 69
    jimmiraybob says:

    @Mary G:

    How come no one’s bringing up the success of the Berlin wall?

  70. 70
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Eric U.:

    He’s proud of himself because he thinks he embarrassed the Democrats with his stunt of pretending to be too poor to afford anything else.

    I just feel sorry for the players. Hopefully the one who was picked up on a hot mic saying, “I thought it was a joke” doesn’t get punished by the coaches.

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I still suspect the Mercers are laundering money for the Russians and pretending the donations are theirs. Robert Mercer is way too penny-pinching to be spending this much of his own money.

  71. 71
    smike says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Of course someone will have to hose him off to get his attention away from Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez.

    Like button clicked.

  72. 72
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: I have the omnibus. The story is excellent. I think the art could be better. It is partially the basis for the DC Animated Universe DC Comics Showcase Short (it’s about 45 minutes, instead of a full length feature) Superman/Shazam! The Return of Black Adam.

  73. 73
    Eric U. says:

    @Raoul: I saw the “we got rid of King now get rid of anyone that met with Farrakhan” first from Ari Fleischer. The Farrakhan thing is actually deeply racist. He isn’t a Democrat, not all POC are Democrats.

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @smike: The only difference between Shapiro and an actual stalker at this point is that Ocasio-Cortez is in DC and Shapiro is in LA. I have no doubt that if he lived in DC he’d be following her around.

  75. 75
    Jay says:

    @jimmiraybob:

    The Berlin Wall was built to keep the East Germans in, not the West out, and it didn’t work all that well.

    Basically the same reason nobody brings up Alcatraz’s walls, or Aou Grahib’s.

  76. 76
    joel hanes says:

    @Martin: @Martin:

    Honestly, his constituents have no use for him if he’s off Ag committee. That’s a big deal.

    It would be if he actually did anything.

    But in sixteen years in the House, he’s only introduced one bill,
    and that was to rename a post office.

    Really, his entire function has been to express xenophobia on the part of the rural white evangelical Protestants that dominate his district.

  77. 77
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Yeah, I thought the art looked weird sometimes, mostly the facial expressions and Superman’s gums on his lower mouth in some frames was a weird design choice.

  78. 78
    joel hanes says:

    @mark:

    Lets everybody know what the people of Iowa are like.

    Some of the people of Iowa.
    The other three Iowa Reps are all Dems.

  79. 79
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @joel hanes:
    “District”? You mean the parts of Iowa where his voter base lives, right? I don’t mean to be pedant, but…

  80. 80
    jl says:

    Scholten ran a great campaign and had great promise as a good Congressperson. But maybe in this case, coming so close did some real good.

    Funny how important information that has been public and obvious for a while is now officially deemed important to notice and maybe even discuss seriously in the news, at least from the clips I watched tonight. King’s racism and xenophobia and general toxic bigotry. And, hey, whoodathunk, Trump might be a really sketchy dude.

    OTOH, my cynical devil is on my shoulder whispering that what it really is the GOP power brokers deciding that Trump and Trumpster GOP is in trouble. After getting smashed in midterms for House and many state government elections, they kind of notice that they are losing the public on their post-election rerun of the Trump BS that sunk them in the midterms. I don’t think they know what to do next, since their primary base will revolt if Trump is not praised and exalted. But they have to do something.

    I hope what is next is political, legal, and electoral catastrophe for the miserable remnants of a once great political party (and the ‘great’ part is, except for just a very few politicians, 60 and more years ago now).

  81. 81
    jimmiraybob says:

    @Jay:

    i should have used the sarcasm thingy.

  82. 82
    Jay says:

    @joel hanes:

    The Ag Commitee looks after distributing welfare to Ag Corps and Farms, so, it’s useful pork for a rural Politician,

    Even if outside the Commitee the Politician does less than nothing.

  83. 83
    Jay says:

    @jimmiraybob:

    It’s only a matter of time before the Orange bloat twits his way there.

  84. 84
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @jl:

    I hope what is next is political, legal, and electoral catastrophe for the miserable remnants of a once great political party (and the ‘great’ part is, except for just a very few politicians, 60 and more years ago now).

    Yeah, there were always bad parts of the GOP. Once upon a time the moderate/progressive wings championed and led by Eisenhower ruled supreme. They preserved the New Deal. I remember reading that after Ike was sworn in a bunch of R congressmen introduced regressive constitutional amendments, such as one that would have struck down the separation of church and state, effectively making the United States a theocracy. What a look that would have been during the Cold War! I’m sure the Soviets would have had a field day.

    I sometimes wonder what the outcome of the Cold War would have been had the isolationist wing led by Taft had won and he became President. Would the ultimate demise of the SU have been postponed/averted or would it have happened anyway, just later or at a separate time?

  85. 85
    joel hanes says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:

    Are you thinking King is a Senator?
    He’s a Representative, for Iowa’s Fourth Congressional District.

    In general, Iowa grows more liberal as you go SE, and more conservative and rural as you go NW.

    Now that Iowa has only four Representatives, and has redistricted,
    the Fourth District includes my (more liberal than King) hometown.
    That’s one reason his margin dropped this time ’round.

  86. 86
    joel hanes says:

    @Jay:

    The Ag Commitee looks after distributing welfare to Ag Corps and Farms, so, it’s useful pork for a rural Politician,

    This grew much less useful after the Rs decided that earmarks were a leading cause of the abomination known as “compromise”, and did away with them in 2010.

  87. 87
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @joel hanes:
    Shit. You’re right. Sorry. I guess I confused him with Grassley for some reason.

  88. 88
    jl says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: On a national level, Eisenhower, and Earl Warrent (progressive California GOPer), probably the last time had decent and competent people with any kind of forward looking vision holding office and running the party. Had a few reasonable people at state level since then. A few competent and moderate local GOP mayors in California.

    And, subtext of your comment might be that Eisenhower was really apolitical. Decided to win as a Republican to try to save the party from its reactionary demons. Eisenhower certainly had his problems, and he had some center-right unregulated free market beliefs that were unworkable, but a vast difference from what we’ve seen since. I’ll go look for the military industrial complex speech. Think of any GOPer who could give that speech in recent history?

    Edit: I have no clue how a GOP Taft style isolationist foreign policy would have worked out. But in other ways, Taft was very reactionary, and would have produced very bad domestic policy.

  89. 89
    Jay says:

    @joel hanes:

    Yeah, but after 1982 American knowlege about Government shrunk, so how many of King’s voters knew that?

  90. 90
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    The word “defamacast” is a sin against the English language. That aside, is it treated as more serious than regular libel or less so?

  91. 91
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Hopefully Shapiro’s wife hasn’t figured out why he insists that he HAS to have that video of AOC dancing in college on all of his devices for “work reasons.”

  92. 92
    joel hanes says:

    It’s gratifying to watch the Rs suddenly realize that supporting King is a bad look,
    and to try to wash away the stink.

    Sort of a miniature dress rehearsal for the problem they’re going to have with Trump.
    By the time of the 2020 election, Trump will be as toxic as ricin,
    and all those Rs who have steadfastly supported him up until this year
    are going to be desperate to disavow their actions.

    It’ll be a party-wide fit of “out damned spot”
    We must not let them pretend they did not do what they have done.

  93. 93
    Amir Khalid says:

    @jimmiraybob:
    The Berlin Wall succeeded at keeping East Germans in, not so much at keeping West Germans or anyone else out. Even then it was eventually no match for the political forces that resulted in Wiedervereinigung.

  94. 94
    Sebastian says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    He is such a creep. If I were ever to see his browser history, I’d probably need therapy.

  95. 95
    jl says:

    There is some dishonesty, or self-delusion in the address. Did Eisenhower really believe that US was committed to ‘peaceful’ methods? He meant that some of the coups he threw were relatively peaceful?

    Eisenhower Farewell Address (Best Quality) – ‘Military Industrial Complex’ WARNING
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBNmecVtdU

  96. 96
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Amir Khalid: slander, not libel! Did you not read my primer on defamation?

    No, it’s no more serious than regular old slander. Truly a pointless law.

  97. 97
    sukabi says:

    @Amir Khalid: you know Amir, I think defamacast is a perfect word — to describe what drumpf ‘delivers’ out of his cakehole.

  98. 98
    Amir Khalid says:

    @jl:
    Perhaps by “peaceful” methods Ike meant those not involvimg a declared war fought by uniformed military.

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Sorry, but I have always thought that once published in print or broadcast, a slander became a libel.

  99. 99
    jl says:

    Another Ike quote I cannot imagine any current or recent GOPer making. Maybe we should have a blog contest to see if any recent GOPer quotes can come close? Arnie talking about global warming? But he is a commie now, so I dunno.

    “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some 50 miles of concrete highway. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road. the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.”

    Address “The Chance for Peace” Delivered Before the American Society of Newspaper Editors, 4/16/53

  100. 100
    Jay says:

    @jl:

    Some post Ike commentators noted that Ike realized later, that some of his decisions had been “played” by the MIC, that some of the “actors” had their own agendas.

  101. 101
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @jl:
    Probably self-delusion more than anything. He certainly fucked up many times re: the coups under his watch.

  102. 102
    jl says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: IIRC plans for the Guatemala and Iran coups were presented to Truman, and he passed. Yet I think Truman, more than Eisenhower, is remembered as the aggressive Cold Warrior. But I might be wrong.

  103. 103
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @jl:
    Huh. I always thought that was in his farewell address.

    The real problem Ike was identifying here was human nature itself. We divide ourselves into tribes because it is in our nature to do so, a premievel remnant before the days we could kill hundreds of millions in a single day, when it had helped our odds of survival. We live in a world of finite resources and we constantly fight over them for power and prestige, instead of cooperating for the common good. We spend money on the military because if we didn’t somebody else would come and take us over.

  104. 104
    Jay says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:

    While Presidents have their own “agency”, their “information” is not omnipotent. Instead, it is shaped by the Agencies and US Allies, domestic politics and media.

    Presidents can make a lot of “bad decisions” by empowering Idealogues and ignoring the information from Agencies and Allies contrary, eg. Bush/Cheney.

    President’s can make a lot of bad decisions because the Agencies and Allies they trust to inform them, have their own agenda’s, Katanga, Greece, French Indochina, the KMT, the Bomber Gap.

  105. 105
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:

    Truman sent actual troops to Korea. Through the lens of the time, I could see why someone like Ike would think that covertly supporting coups in foreign countries was better than openly sending in troops and engaging in combat, even though Ike’s decisions ended up having far-reaching consequences.

  106. 106
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’ve read that Eisenhower was besotted with the great success of many of the Allied covert operations during WWII.

    Your point about Korea is well taken. But, South Korea was invaded, and strong arguments the US had to react. The invasion may or may not have been due to careless US diplomatic policy, but that is a different issue.

    But, for this thread, I guess that for both Truman and Eisenhower, the contrast to the current mess, and for Eisenhower, the contrast to recent and not-so-recent GOP, is beyond measure.

  107. 107
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @jl:
    The Korean War began as a joint UN intervention. I may be misremembering, but it may have been the first and only time UN forces directly intervened in a conflict like a traditional military.

    And yes, there’s no comparison between Eisenhower or the GOP of today. I tried reading their 2016 party platform and couldn’t get past the introduction. It was cray-cray. Obama apparently hated the free market and didn’t understand how it worked; lots of invoking of God as protector of the United States, etc.

  108. 108
    eddie blake says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: that REALLY is a great story. wonderful art, too.

  109. 109
    eddie blake says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: i dunno i liked the painterly aspects of it and the soft blend of the colors with the hard action.

  110. 110
    Frank McCormick says:

    @Raoul: In my quick scan of the Twitter responses, I was pleasantly surprised to see that there was little to no support for McDaniel’s whataboutism.

  111. 111
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @mark: IA added 2 dem House members in 18, so now have 3 of 4 IA House reps

    Oh for the days of Harkin!!!

  112. 112
    joel hanes says:

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    Oh for the days when the Republicans had people like Robert Ray, instead of the crabbed and mean Republicans who govern the state today. These crazies even make H.R. Gross look good in retrospect.

  113. 113
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Is she herself Palestinian?

  114. 114
    Origuy says:

    @Jay: Except for the cellblock walls themselves, there are no walls around Alcatraz. The San Francisco Bay was thought to be enough.

  115. 115
    Jay says:

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    Her parents both were working class Palistinian immigrants who became US Citizens. She was born in the US.

  116. 116
    AnotherBruce says:

    @joel hanes: “Oh for the days when the Republicans had people like Robert Ray, instead of the crabbed and mean Republicans who govern the state today.”

    Don’t forget Jim Leach.

  117. 117
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    King is the face of the GOP. Along with other known racist shits like McConnell and Paul.

  118. 118
    J R in WV says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:

    the first and only time UN forces directly intervened in a conflict like a traditional military.

    First, because the Russians had for some reason decided to boycott the UN, and while they were gone, real active decisions could be made.

    The UN has directly intervened in conflict since then, usually incompetently or inadequately.

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