Saturday Morning Open Thread: Same As It Ever Was

Democrats care about people; Republicans care about “winning”, which they mostly define as “money”. (Although if they’re feeling particularly GOP, they’ll throw away money just to keep that “winning” feeling… )

180 replies
  1. 1
    JPL says:

    Good Morning.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄 😄😄

  3. 3
    rikyrah says:

    I love that Nancy Smash tweet 🤗🤗

  4. 4
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Snowed in. More on the way. I’ll have to think of something to keep my ass out of trouble.

  5. 5
    satby says:

    @JPL: @rikyrah: Good morning 😊!
    @OzarkHillbilly: how’s your hand?
    I’ve been awake since 3, about to go jump in the shower before leaving for the farmer’s market. Snow starting here later, but the brunt of it will stay south of us.

  6. 6
    plato says:

    mcturtle – overestimated for his ‘political acumen’ and vastly underestimated for his grievous lasting damages to the democratic governance.

  7. 7
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Is it windy? At least you have power, because snowed in without power would suck.

  8. 8
    SRW1 says:

    Good Lord, FT Asia apparently reports that Nikki Haley or, wait for it, … Ivanka Trump are candidates to replace outgoing World Bank President Jim Yong Kim!

  9. 9
    Bruuuuce says:

    I love Nancy Smash, the second-toughest woman in the federal government.

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: It’s fine, still a bit limited and whenever I pick up something that presses directly on the wound I am reminded that I shouldn’t do that, but I can type with both hands among most other things.

    @JPL: Very calm right now. Quite beautiful in fact. We heat with wood and have a 2,000 watt generator. Also lots of 12 & 14 ga extension cords. A couple years ago we lost power for about a week in the height of summer. The gas was a bit of a pain, having to fetch water and bathe in Indian Creek was too (we’re on a well) but we were fairly comfortable. My only real complaint was the noise.

  11. 11
    Chetan Murthy says:


    the second-toughest woman in the federal government.

    Out of curiosity, who’s your pick for toughest?

  12. 12
    Eric U. says:

    I just looked at the forecast. We are supposed to get snow, a friend 60 miles from here is not. Looking at the radar, it looks like all of Pennsylvania is going to get snow, so I am curious if they think the storm is going to head south.

  13. 13
    Betty Cracker says:

    I missed the NYT bombshell about the FBI investigating Trump as a Russian asset, so just catching up now. Sweet Fancy Moses!

  14. 14
    Bess says:

    bathe in Indian Creek

    Heat a gallon of water on the wood stove and you can take a very good bath in your bathroom.

    Dip up a cup of water, wet your hair, shampoo. Use another cup to rinse your hair. Now the next part of your body close to the center of the Earth should be wet and ready to soap. Work your way to the bottom.

    Most likely you’ll have half a gallon left for a glorious pour over.

    I’ve done that many times. Often with melted snow water. Learned the technique in the mountains in India where fuel was scarce, making hot water dear.

  15. 15
    Aziz, light! says:

    An early good morning from the west coast, decrying east coast supremacists.

  16. 16
    Bruuuuce says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Give me Ruth Bader Ginsburg and you can choose the round your contender is going down, any day. :-)

  17. 17

    Raining here in sunny LA. This is just the appetizer, the next set of storms next week should bring between 4-7″ of rain.

  18. 18
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: It’s horrifying to think that the president is under investigation for being an agent of the Russia government. Wittes has an interesting take at Lawfare. The short of it is he thinks the obstruction was the collusion. I wish I knew how and when the story ends.
    Lawfare link

  19. 19
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Bess: Believe it or not Bess, as a 60 yr old man who has spent considerable amounts of his life living in wildernesses of vast variety, I know many many many many different ways of bathing (including not using any water at all). Bathing in a creek? It can be a pain because one has to drive to it, but the actual act is freeing and life affirming.

  20. 20
    geg6 says:

    Damn dogs would. not. let. me. sleep. in. Damn it.

    Sure wish I could go to the inauguration for Governor Wolf and our shiny new Lt. Governor Fetterman. The Roots are playing and that would be a good time.

    Supposed to get a lot of snow later today and tonight. Not that I care. My sister and I and three of our female friends are having our annual girls’ sleepover at my sister’s place tonight. Lots of wine, good pizza, maybe some of that funny smoke stuff and bingeing a show. We decided that, even though my sister, one of our friends and I have already seen it, we will binge watch Big Little Lies since the others haven’t seen it. Kind of the perfect girls sleepover show. We’ll be silly and it will be fun. No men allowed.

  21. 21
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  22. 22
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    No men allowed.

    I’s being discriminininated against!!!

  23. 23
    Bess says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: As a 74 year old I sometimes suspect youngsters of only 60 might not have stumbled on all of life’s tricks yet. I know that I’m still finding a new one from time to time.

    I’ve found that some youngers are not able to graciously accept attempts to help on the part of others. Can you believe that?

  24. 24
    NotMax says:

    Not the best 36+ hours ever spent. Nothing major, however twisted something in the extreme lower right hand side of my back. Painful, yes, but mostly bearable when attended to with some jellied smurf and a couple of aspirin when particularly flare uppy. Walking, rising from a sitting position and sleeping, though, are shall we say not anywhere close to up to par. Yesterday required use of both hands to gingerly lift the right leg onto the ottoman (and off again).

    As the 10th of the month is usually the monthly grocery ques/bill paying sojournt into town, sure that traversing the big box stores plus carrying bags in from the car didn’t exactly help. Plus every speed bump on the road elicited a sharp intake of breath. Oh well, this too shall pass.

  25. 25
    Betty Cracker says:

    @JPL: Will read the Lawfare piece next — thanks for the link!

    @geg6: That sounds like fun! I haven’t got around to watching Big Little Lies either but intend to eventually.

  26. 26
    NotMax says:


    Left out the asterisk. for jellied smurf*.

    *This blue goo. Nothing medicinal whatsoever, yet does the trick to tamp down the twinges.

  27. 27
    Raven says:

    @NotMax: how do you know it’s nothing major?

  28. 28

    @NotMax: Probably good to add that, folk will think you ground up smurfs.

  29. 29
    Cermet says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Understand too well about not having water when power is off; I too have a well. Also, a Saint Bernard – I say this because in summer, when we lose power due to tree’s falling (a bit too common for my taste – power can be off a day or two), the poor dog must have AC in the heat/humidity. As such, I have a 4500 watt gen (I built a shed for it; tied it into the house panel with a master switch) and got a room AC unit for the master bedroom. In the summer the dog lives there until we get power back for the central AC. One nice thing about the larger generator (ditto: gasoline), it can power my water pump, heat system (oil based), and much of the other household devices (I have to turn the water heater off, of course.) I run off the 240 volt generator supply source – made wiring into the box simple (two 120 volt sides.)

  30. 30
    Betty Cracker says:

    Looks like I’m not the only one catching up on the NYT story this morning. Twitler, about 10 minutes ago:

    Wow, just learned in the Failing New York Times that the corrupt former leaders of the FBI, almost all fired or forced to leave the agency for some very bad reasons, opened up an investigation on me, for no reason & with no proof, after I fired Lyin’ James Comey, a total sleaze!

    “Very bad reasons” indeed.

  31. 31
    Elizabelle says:

    Good morning, all. We are in a better world today, with knowledge of the FBI investigation out there. I cannot imagine they came to the conclusion “meh, nothing to see here.”

    The Deep State speaks, do you think?

  32. 32
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: They probably had to drug him last night in order to keep the phone away from him.

  33. 33
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Bess: And some people are not able to graciously accept blatant condescension masked as an attempt to help another but who’s real intention is just to reinforce that persons overly inflated opinion of superiority that they know in their heart is a lie.

    It hurts the last feeling I have left, but I guess I will just have to accept the fact that I am an ungracious SOB.

    PS: My sons knew how to and were in fact doing what you suggested over an open fire by the time they were 5 years old.

  34. 34
    JPL says:

    @Elizabelle: Most likely the FBI has a recording of trump’s conversations with Putin. Those are the tapes I’d like to hear. I wonder if there will be another Saturday night massacre.

  35. 35
    Elizabelle says:

    @geg6: Sounds like a great plan! Enjoy!

    @NotMax: Hope you feel better. How much time does it take to get past something like that?

  36. 36
    NotMax says:


    Had enough back pulls and strains over the decades to recognize one.


    So long as I don’t push it and do something silly, about 4 or 5 days. Better tonight than last night.

  37. 37
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Cermet: I have long had plans for a soundproofed shed for the generator but other projects keep jumping in front of it. Mine has 240 volt plug in too. I have thought about plugging the pump into it but have never got around to doing the math to see if that would actually work. Not having water is not that big a deal. Yet.

  38. 38
    Bess says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: It would take some advanced creative reading to find any condescension in my bath in a bucket post.

    There should be no problem finding a dose in my reply to your replying comment.

    You are free to self-label.

  39. 39
    charluckles says:

    It’s touched on in the Lawfare piece and I still don’t understand it. How are people putting forth arguments that Trump didn’t obstruct justice because the President has an absolute right to fire the FBI director? The President is immune from obstruction of justice charges? It just seems contrary to everything I’ve been taught about American civics and also just a really terrible precedent to set.

  40. 40
    NotMax says:

    Also, for the first time, bought some coconut oil* to try out making popcorn in the Instant Pot. Wow, that stuff is pricier than butter. Worst comes to worst, shall simply use it as an oil or butter substitute depending on what’s cookin’.

    *Instant Pot recipe sites stress getting the refined version, as that tolerates higher heat much better than the unrefined.


    Full service blog and all that. Besides, they retain their piquant flavor better if kept whole.


  41. 41
    Raven says:

    I went ahead and filed a claim with USAA after my bride got whacked in our brand new Kia. 3k for the repairs but the great part was the exchange with the folks in the shop. I told the woman at the desk how my wife didn’t get any of the information about the guy who hit her. I explained that she called me from the scene and I dutifully drove over. So there are 2 cops, the perp and my wife. They are filling out paperwork and chatting away. I surveyed the scene and surmised they didn’t need my intervention so i clammed up. When we got home I asked my wife for the name and insurance of the dude, “oh, I didn’t get it”! The lady at the desk was all “well, she called YOU, she needed your help”! Then the appraiser came out, heard the tale and said, “that’s exactly what I would have done” ! If the thunder don’t get ya the lightnin will!

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @charluckles: The argument is that obstruction of justice requires a corrupt mental state and that you can second guess the president’s mental state when he exercises his Constitutional powers.

  43. 43
    Raven says:

    @NotMax: yea, I knew I had vertigo until it was a stroke.

  44. 44
    geg6 says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Oh, watch it! It’s pretty riveting. I was never a big Nicole Kidman fan before seeing it and I am now a huge fan. Her acting in it is amazing. She doesn’t even need words. She conveys so much just with facial expressions. And Alexander Skaarsgard is a very satisfying villain.

  45. 45
  46. 46
    JPL says:

    @Raven: You have the police report, so you should be fine. My son was hit on I85 two months ago and since he was on one side of the highway and the person who hit him on the other he never even saw what the person looked like. My son finally got his car back last Tuesday, but USAA paid the rental on the loaner all that time .

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Bess: Heh. Everything you write is condescending. But you already know that, don’t you?

    You are free to self-label.

    Oh, I do. I am very comfortable in my skin.

  48. 48
    Elizabelle says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: We’re expecting snow and then maybe sleet and ice in central Virginia. Tonight through tomorrow. No good estimates. Maybe 2 inches plus. Who knows? I am going to be happy staying home and looking out.

    Have MSNBC online in background. Alex Witt just called it “Silver Springs.” (Maryland suburb of DC.) It’s Spring. People always do that.

  49. 49
    eclare says:

    @geg6: Agree, never a Kidman fan before, but her movements even said so much. Looking forward to the second season with Meryl Streep!

  50. 50
    JPL says:

    @geg6: Perry scared the heck outta me!

  51. 51
    NotMax says:


    Yeah, lived for a few years in a dot on the map named Sinking Spring. Same thing use to happen.

  52. 52
    Elizabelle says:

    Who is this tool on MSNBC now?

  53. 53
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: At least the cops have it. They do have it, don’t they? Don’t they???? ;-)

  54. 54
    Elizabelle says:

    Brian Darling. Liberty Government Affairs.

    Le sigh.

  55. 55
    NotMax says:


    Thank you, Mr. Sunshine.


  56. 56
    JPL says:

    @NotMax: A friend of mine suffers from back problems. She’s been receiving acupuncture and hasn’t had a major problem during the last year.

  57. 57
    Elizabelle says:

    Trump missed his century. He wants to be Henry VIII, beheading his opponents right and left.

    He is terrifying, actually. All these good government officials, fired. And now opening aim on the rank and file, for his own political survival.

    He cannot be gone soon enough for me, but it has to be done right. Do not hand a stolen White House off to the Republicans.

  58. 58
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Bess & @OzarkHillbilly: I’m choosing to read this exchange as cheeky banter because it’s way too early to contemplate the possibility that y’all are actually snarling at each other over who knows the most about bathing without electricity. :)

  59. 59
    Ohio Mom says:

    Anne Laurie, if you are reading the comments (crosses fingers), I sent you an email about how we need a post this weekend to finish organizing the Cincinnati meet-up. Many thanks!

  60. 60
    charluckles says:


    Which seems ludicrous to me. Not a lawyer and certainly not a constitutional scholar. But it seems to me that a people who cared about democracy would tar and feather that argument and then run it out of town on a rail.

  61. 61
    NotMax says:


    Don’t suffer from any chronic back complaints. Although have learned over the years that there is always a backache somewhere on the same track and sooner or later it will stop at this station.

  62. 62
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker: Double Heh.

  63. 63
    debbie says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It was interesting news to wake up to, for sure.

  64. 64
    Spanky says:

    @NotMax: My BIL taught for many years at Wilson HS. Retired from there, actually.

    Stevie Nicks said she woke up on the tour bus and saw the highway sign on the DC Beltway for Silver Springs, and was inspired to write the song.

    It’s “Silver Spring”, of course, but waking up on a tour bus doesn’t make one especially alert, I’m thinking.

    Expecting 3-6 inches of snow here in Confederate Southern MD, mostly overnight. Must be a big disappointment to the school kids.

  65. 65
    Betty Cracker says:

    @debbie: Twitler is going apeshit right now, playing all his favorites (Comey and Mueller best friends, 13 Angry Democrats, I’m tougher on Russia than anybody, etc.). Tick-tock, motherfucker!

  66. 66
    Spanky says:

    Where can I find more on this “bombshell” that we’ve known about for a year? Without going to the FTFNYT. There’s nada on the WaPo site.

  67. 67
    debbie says:


    I thank you for this early morning laugh.

  68. 68
    JPL says:

    @debbie: Wait until later today when Trump yells at the clouds I am not a spy.

  69. 69
    Aleta says:


    jellied smurf

    quite funny

  70. 70
    WereBear says:

    @NotMax: Getting better is a good sign. Best wishes.

    Since this is the “aches and pains” thread I’ve been battling a severe flare of auto-immune, trying some new things. will report if they work.

    We had our snow. Yesterday was 1 degree.

  71. 71
    Avalune says:

    @Bess & @OzarkHillbilly: I’m choosing to read this exchange as cheeky banter because it’s way too early to contemplate the possibility that y’all are actually snarling at each other over who knows the most about bathing without electricity. :)

    Well that gave me giggles.

    I don’t want to get into the fray but I know a thing or two about bathing via stranger’s hose when I hoped no one was home. Cold. Cold. Mother***ing cold!

    I’m kind of biding time till I can run home to nap with my doggo. The so called reclining chair at the hospital doesn’t do much actual reclining and my back and neck are killing!

  72. 72
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Spanky: The Guardian has a short bit. but the lawfare article is as good an analysis as you’re going to find.

  73. 73
    WereBear says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: You hurt something AGAIN? What am I go to do with you?

  74. 74
    debbie says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    This, combined with his inability to get a golf game in since the shutdown began, should really send him over the edge. The best SHS could manage is “ridiculous.” The residence must be in total chaos!

  75. 75
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @debbie: I live to serve (deeply bows with great humility)

  76. 76
    Elizabelle says:

    @Avalune: All the best to you and Leto. And yeah, hospital chairs.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    What am I go to do with you?

    I’d say “Kiss me and make me better.” but it didn’t work for my wife. I was a frog before she married me and I’m still a frog. At least she can’t say she didn’t know what she was getting.

  78. 78
    RAVEN says:

    @JPL: Yea, there is a police report but that’s not really my point. I declined the rental coverage but we still have the van and the 66.

  79. 79
    Raven says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yea and that’s why I went ahead and filed a claim. I’m not really interested is running around chasing the other company.

  80. 80
    RSA says:

    Jennifer Rubin has a good response to Ryan Ellis:

    Replying to @RyanLEllis @washingtonpost @politico
    What a horrible thing not to care about fellow humans because they aren’t in you tribe.

  81. 81
    Shalimar says:

    I would bet that at least 30% of federal employees vote Republican, though this should be a wake-up call for how much their party hates them.

  82. 82
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: It may be required by law but that’s not why I have insurance. I have insurance so that it’s somebody else’s problem.

  83. 83
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Shalimar: My bet is that the number is pretty close to 47%. Back in the early Tea Party days I had to deal with some of the most fervent supporters, waving their Gadsden flags every where they went, load and proud about how self reliant they were.

    It surprised me how many of them worked for a govt. (local, state, federal)

  84. 84
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @geg6: I had the feline equivalent, with fat cat calling me to get up, and smart cat banging on the blinds.

    The snowstorm has headed east, leaving us with a bunch of much needed free water. While the mountains continue to pile up the snow, it’s been pretty dry down here in the flats. I can look west many days and see the storm clouds working their winter magic, while we remain bone dry.

  85. 85
    Kay says:

    I’m glad someone finally said this, from the Lawfare article:

    Put simply, an FBI investigation can be launched as a counterintelligence matter or it can be launched as a criminal matter, but when the bureau shows up, it shows up with all of its authorities, not just the ones associated with the particular type of investigation originally predicated. If FBI agents conducting a counterintelligence investigation find that a suspect has a kilogram of cocaine in his apartment, for example, they are empowered to make arrests under criminal authorities. People routinely describe separate cones of the Mueller investigation, a criminal cone and a counterintelligence cone; this is imagining a division significantly starker than the reality.

    The NYTimes actually played a role in that- setting this up as an investigation with “red lines”:

    President Trump said some time ago that he believes his personal finances should be off limits to investigators. In an interview with the Times in July, 2017, he asserted that if Robert Mueller, the special counsel, sought to investigate the Trump family’s business dealings he would be crossing a “red line.”

    That isn’t what happened. The NYTimes political reporters supplied the “red line” test. Trump didn’t invent it- the NYTimes did.

    It never made sense. If they’re investigating Russian interference and Trump’s business dealings are part of that then they not only will look at his business dealings- they have to. Manafort’s and Cohen’s business dealings aren’t off limits- they ARE the investigation. There are no “red lines”. That whole concept was invented by the NYTimes reporters and then promoted by Donald Trump and his lawyers. Trump wanted it cordoned off – that benefits him- but that isn’t actually how it works.

  86. 86
    Immanentize says:

    Good morning All! We may be banged up, punctured and bruised, but it’s not like we are cranky or anything!

    My MRI update — torn tendon, tear in the forearm muscle, orthopedic consult Tuesday (I really have to work Monday). So whichever one of you that said, good luck with the arm and the follow on PT was right on.

    Meanwhile — actually fun — starting my International Criminal Law class Monday. That class is always such fun! I decided to add the Magnitsky Act this year just to explain what all the hullabaloo is about. 🙂

  87. 87
    Cermet says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: 2000 watts and 120 volt (about) means if the pump can’t draw more than 16 amps or else (Even that would likely throw the generator’s breaker.) Say, 15 amps max (start up current. Running current is always less than the start up.) Nice thing about wiring up “240” is you have two out of phase 120’s that can go on each side of the breaker panel. Easy to wire even for an electrician.

    I got the 4500 watt unit because it was battery powered (main reason – not portable, of course, so I built the shed.) I’m getting a bit old to deal with pull starting larger engines. I keep the battery in the garage and ran a cable from the battery to the generator’s starting points (used same access hole that the 240 wire enters the house.) That way, the battery is warm, dry, and even on the coldest days, starts the generator (but I keep starting fluid nearby just in case.) My shed’s roof is hinged and opens upward 35 degrees (has a elbow locking racket) and the front and one side panel open too (the exhaust port side panel does not.) That way, the generator gets full and free air flow for cooling. Took me about half a day to make. Sound proofing isn’t possible nor desirable since it is gasoline run and produces a lot of heat so good air flow is essential. Of course, the exhaust is near a house wall that has no windows – helps reduce sound and prevents the carbon monoxide issues (even with the catalysis stack.)

    Sorry for all the details but if you have a gas powered unit, and want a shed, best to follow a similar design methodology.

  88. 88
    debbie says:


    There are no “red lines”.

    I love telling Republicans this, reminding them there would never have been a Monica Lewinsky if Ken Starr had stayed within that red line. Shuts them right up.

  89. 89
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    but it’s not like we are cranky or anything!

    Speak for yourself.

    my International Criminal Law class

    If you ask me that’s a little redundant in today’s world of trump. Your students can learn a lot just from reading the news and following up on certain Law blogs.

  90. 90
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: This is exactly why the “red line” thing made no sense to me other than Trump basically pointing the authorities to where some real crimes took place.

    “Don’t look under the floor boards for any murder victim! That would be crossing a red line!”

  91. 91
    Immanentize says:

    I tell my students that my overt learning objective for the course is that, if they do all the reading for the course and come to class, they will be the best informed and most interesting guests at cocktail and dinner parties.

  92. 92

    @SRW1: Apparently we are not yet done humiliating ourselves on the world stage. Ivanka as head of the World Bank is Trumpy enough to make me weep.

  93. 93
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Never gonna happen.

    Kind of like making Willie Sutton chairman of the Fed.

  94. 94

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve had to swear off reading his tweets. He makes me feel crazy.

  95. 95
    Kay says:


    This too:

    Rather, in this construction, obstruction was the collusion, or at least part of it. The obstruction of justice statutes become, in this understanding, merely one set of statutes investigators might think about using to deal with a national security risk—specifically, the risk of a person on the U.S. side coordinating with or supporting Russian activity by shutting down the investigation.

    If you take this out of “Donald Trump” and ask “do law enforcement routinely and in the ordinary course of business use “obstruction” as an entry point- a tool- in a case that involves ANY conspiracy or coordination between groups of people?” that answer to that is “yes, all the time“.

    In Ohio it’s “Interfering”- that’s the term. It’s used so often by investigators and then prosecutors it’s almost a given it will be in there somewhere. Trump wanted this analysis, where it was carved up into discrete parts and narrowed and limited to an almost ludicrous extent. “Interfering” (obstruction) is almost always part of any investigation of any conspiracy.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    Cowboy Diva says:

    Thanks to Mary G, Bruce from Ohio, A Ghost to Most, J R in WV, rikyrah, opiejeanne, SiubhanDuinne, Steeplejack, Aleta, Mnemosyne, Alternative Fax a hip hop artist from Idaho, and Jay:
I look forward to exploring new corners of the internet, and enjoying the movies and music you suggested. It’s easy for the brain to shut down without a structure, focus or goals; thanks again to all of you for giving me things to look forward to!

  98. 98
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    2000 watts and 120 volt (about) means if the pump can’t draw more than 16 amps or else (Even that would likely throw the generator’s breaker.)

    Yeah, that’s about what my back of the envelope in my brain math came up with. Not enough. The power surge at start up would trip everything.

    Sound proofing isn’t possible

    I know, I should have phrased it as “sound directing” away from the house. Ideally it would be some distance away (even just 10 feet would help) and yeah it needs lots of airflow.

    I wish I could have afforded a unit like yours, but even if I could have I would never have been able to order one, and get it installed in the 3 days before IceMageddon 2012. I was lucky finding the one I’ve got. ;-)

  99. 99

    @Immanentize: Oh ow. Tendons take so long to heal.

  100. 100
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    they will be the best informed and most interesting guests at cocktail and dinner parties.

    I think that would at least partially depend on how much everyone else had drunk, but for an AM blog you’re pretty interesting.

  101. 101
    Sab says:

    My hyperthyroid cat seems to have really enjoyed his stay at the vet hospital being treated. They said he spent the whole time quietly in his cage watching gerbil and bird videos and watching staff for food deliveries. He’s home now, hungry but not voracious, and much calmer. Yay. Napping on his own personal stool.

    ETA: Thanks, werebear.

  102. 102
    Kay says:


    Well, the NYTimes handed him the “red line” concept- they posed a question that included the phrase and Trump grabbed it. Like a fucking lifeline, I might add.

    Are Manafort’s “business dealings” off limits? No, of course not. Because that’s insane. He’s in the collusion business, for one, and two, they wouldn’t know or investigate anything at all if it weren’t for his “business dealings”. It’s extra ridiculous in the case of Donaal Trump, specifically, because Donald Trump isn’t an employee or associate of Sleazy Trump Inc. – he’s the owner.

    The NYTimes legal theory is that Mueller can’t investigate Trump’s business dealings in and with Russia in a conspiracy with Russia case? That’s ridiculous. Yet it was accepted and repeated for 2 years.

  103. 103
    Immanentize says:

    And what about the fact that Tulsi Gabbard is going to run for President. 2020 is going to be a prime opportunity for troll farms foreign and domestic.

    Coo coo kachoo, Baud for President, a nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you….

  104. 104
    MomSense says:

    It’s too cold for snow here. We’re in the low single digits today. I wouldn’t have gone outside anyway feeling like this but at least I’m not wishing I could be outside.

  105. 105
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    I am afraid that will be true. But I’ll know more — surgery or not — after Tuesday.

  106. 106
    Spanky says:

    @Sab: Don’t know if you saw my comment yesterday, but your comment early in the week prompted me to take Spanky in to check his thyroid. Turns out it’s diabetes, and yesterday we started insulin shots. Yay us.

    So thanks for the prompt! It was early enough that his weight loss was starting to be noticeable, but he wasn’t feeling ill. Quite the opposite, which was what made me think it was thyroid.

  107. 107
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: By the way, how did your broth turn out?

  108. 108

    @Cowboy Diva: I was going to give you the links of the music I listen when I am feeling down. But was not sure whether you would be interested in Indian classical music and/or popular music.
    If you like fashion, Justine LeConte is a great YouTuber to follow. She is French, lives in Germany, she really knows her stuff, and has her own clothes line. I find the history of fashion fascinating.

  109. 109
    Immanentize says:

    I know you do not drink, but I may have some wine at tonight’s paella fest. We settled on one seafood, one chicken and sausage. I may not be interesting, but I will be fat and happy this evening…. Again, thanks for the tips. I am off to get Bomba rice at Wegmans this morning!

  110. 110
    Sab says:

    @NotMax: I am sorry about your back. I did something similar early this week. OK two days later, but it certainly hurt in the meantime.

    My husband has a really bad back: collapsed discs, arthritis, stenosis and mild scoliosis. He’s two inches shorter than when I met him due to back issues.

    This week he laughed out loud eveytime I groaned while getting up from a chair or climbing stairs.

  111. 111
    Immanentize says:

    Broth is tasty, but certainly not as good as your wife’s. I had to augment because I didn’t get enough fish parts (I used clam juice with the lobster and shrimp shells). But next time I will start earlier.

  112. 112
    debbie says:


    Is your syllabus something an ordinary person can grasp?

  113. 113
    debbie says:


    It’s started snowing here. My doctor has told me not to go outside when there’s ice or snow (back). Not that I’m an 24/7 outside person anyway, but make me stay indoors and I become resentful and churlish. This is going to be a very long weekend.

  114. 114
    Kay says:


    The actors in a conspiracy or “group effort” can and often do have different motives- “goals” is maybe a better word. They don’t all have to sign on to the whole broad goal- they can see a narrow or smaller goal within the effort.

    It doesn’t have to be “all of these people wanted to collude with Russia because they want an international alliance with clear ideological and policy goals”. Manafort can want 2.5 million dollars. Cohen can want to keep his sick relationship with the Trump family, because he’s pathetic. Trump can want a Russian real estate deal and also want to beat Clinton.

    All of those goals could be reached the same way- by working with the Russian government.

    I myself actually favor the theories that include a set of actors pursuing various self-interested benefits rather than some grand coherent “take over the world” notion because to me that fits with these people. THESE people have no “beliefs”. They are 100% self-interested. They may run into people with ideological beliefs who join their effort along the way in the conspiracy, but that’s incidental.

  115. 115
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    I know you do not drink,

    Well, not water, you never know what is swimming around in that shit. Gotta add alcohol as a disinfectant.


    Broth is tasty, but certainly not as good as your wife’s.

    Goo…. Hey wait a minute, has my wife been slipping you broth on the side??? That’s grounds for divorce!!!

  116. 116
    Frankensteinbeck says:

    Reporters have been trying to goad Trump into firing Mueller for over a year now. They are not even a little subtle about it. Questions like “So if Mueller does [thing I just made up] will you fire him and shut down the investigation?”

  117. 117
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: At my local grocery store this morning I picked up a copy of the NYTimes.
    The clerk’s eyes widened when he looked at the front page. He looked at me and said no wonder why Giuliani feels the need to correct Mueller’s report.

  118. 118
    rikyrah says:

    They talked about it extensively on Maddow and LarryO last night.

  119. 119
    Yarrow says:

    Good morning, all.

    @Kay: It’s just so stupid. If the FBI is investigating something and finds evidence of another crime, they don’t just ignore that evidence.They look at that too. They might pass it off to other authorities where it’s more relevant or they might even open a different investigation if it’s obviously a separate case, but they don’t just go, “Oh, that’s different. We’ll just leave it alone and pretend we never saw it.”

  120. 120
    Sebastian says:


    You know he will try anything to escape his fate.

  121. 121
    Sebastian says:


    It might be a good idea to keep a list of those fuckfaces and indictment for reckless endangerment of the republic. I wish there was a law like that.

    Sooo, stupid question. Let’s say USG passes a law prohibiting certain behavior, can people be indicted for actions that happened prior to passing of said law?

  122. 122
    NotMax says:

    @Cowboy Diva

    The Stunt Man is my go to cheerer upper. Just a few runner-ups which hold up to repeated viewing: Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House (the original), Victor/Victoria, Buster Keaton’s The General, La Chèvre (the French original), Waking Ned Devine, Local Hero, Tampopo, The Ladykillers (British, 1955), and both Tom Jones (1963 version) and Joseph Andrews.

  123. 123
    JPL says:

    @Sebastian: The republicans won’t even blink an eye. Trump is desperate to change the subject so he’ll do something today. All the networks led with the story, and if tomorrow they use the word spy rather than agent, then he will lose it.

  124. 124
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Immanentize: Mmm, Wegmans. Along with cardinals, one of the few things I miss.

  125. 125
    Sebastian says:


    Buy it on Amazon, it’s cheap. Also, Costco has a BIG jar of coconut oil/fat for a very reasonable price.

  126. 126
    MomSense says:


    I keep a broth bag in my freezer. It’s just a big freezer bag I use to make broth once it is full. I put vegetable and fruit scraps and cuttings in it. It would make an excellent base for adding seafood to make a paella broth.

    Whenever there are a lot of apple peels in the bag, I give some of the broth to my neighbors. It is so tasty they drink it warm for breakfast.

  127. 127
    Michael Cain says:

    @Betty Cracker: I have long said that if the forensic accountants were given access to the Trump Organization books going back far enough, they would find that sometime in the late 1990s or early 2000s Russian money kept Trump’s entire house of cards from tumbling down in cascading bankruptcies. And that the TO has done modest money laundering for the Russians since. Of course, given the nature of the business, the laundering part is true for any large real estate development business that operates in NYC/Long Island/northern NJ: there’s too much dirty money to identify and avoid it all.

    The Trump family are grifters, though, not spies. They’re not disciplined enough to be spies.

  128. 128
    NotMax says:


    Looked at the big, big jar at Costco. Unfortunately it’s unrefined, which is not what I was seeking. Ended up getting it at Target; less costly (by a lot) than the supermarket and by price per ounce commensurate with Costco.

  129. 129
    Sebastian says:


    Yes, that’s what worries me the most. His standard move is to find a larger scandal, or rather something of more interest to the media, as distraction.

  130. 130
    NotMax says:


    Fingers crossed for amenable results.

  131. 131
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Cowboy Diva:
    Music is my go-to, but my tastes are not in the mainstream here. If you want some kick-ass rock/country with a decidely liberal bent and intelligent lyrics, check out Drive-By Truckers. For Americana with a decidely liberal bent and even more intelligent lyrics, Jason Isbell, Amanda Shires, and the 400 Unit. Also, Sturgill Simpson.

  132. 132
    Kay says:


    Right, and I think you know this but the author of that article takes it a little further. He’s saying the obstruction fits within a “conspiracy” frame. Legally. Factually. That there’s no bright line between “engaging in the conspiracy” and “the obstruction into investigation of a conspiracy”. And, as you know, Trumpists RELY on this invented bright line. That’s their defense. More and more they rely on it, as more and more comes out. They have to keep excluding actors and actions as more and more are implicated or indicted. They WANT it ludicrously narrow.

    During this I was almost waiting for it to get dumber. I thought there could be a claim that “conspiring to obstruct” isn’t a conspiracy because it’s obstruction, not conspiracy :)

    This parceling, siloing, is the Trump defense and it’s really blatant. Trump’s a career criminal so someone alleges “collusion” or “coordination” or “conspiracy” and the FIRST thing he does is start claiming he doesn’t know these people, they were all incidental to his organization, he just ran into them on the coffee line, etc. Which is what every criminal says, when accused of a conspiracy :)

  133. 133
    MomSense says:


    There is also the Roger Stone factor in all of this. His MO has always been to collect dirt about useful people and then leverage that dirt when he needs that person for a vote, an endorsement, or whatever the situation may be. How wonderful for him to have access to all of this FSB/GRU collected dirt. There are complicit actors in this mess who are just cooperating so their dirt won’t be made public. Good old fashioned black mail.

  134. 134
    JPL says:

    @Michael Cain: What about Kushner?

  135. 135
    Sebastian says:

    I use the Costco jar (love the shorthand) for standard cooking.

    The other one is Nature’s Way, which I used to buy at Whole Food$ But then found it at amazon (same thing now) for $10 for the 10oz bottle. That’s the real one with 93% MCT. I found it as “cheap” alternative addon for Bulletproof Coffee.

  136. 136
    debbie says:


    You had me at “self-interested”! That’s exactly and always the motivation for them.

  137. 137
  138. 138
    Gvg says:

    You know, my take on the NYT red line coverage was more that they were doing a story about how stupid Trump was, everyone knows the subject of an investigation can’t tell the police/FBI only investigate A not B. They didn’t spell it out in simple sentences because everyone knows this.
    It’s also known that guilty people being investigated often indulge in this kind of wishful thinking, because what else can they do?

  139. 139
    NotMax says:


    Am partial to Costco’s Mediterranean blend (combination of olive, canola and grapeseed oils) for everyday cooking.

  140. 140
    Sab says:

    @Spanky: Thanks for letting me know. Good luck to him.

  141. 141
    Yarrow says:

    @Michael Cain:
    Along those lines, remember this?

    Allen Weisselberg, longtime chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, has been granted immunity by federal prosecutors as part of their investigation into President Trump’s former personal attorney, Michael Cohen.

    Weisselberg’s ties to the president go back decades. He has overseen the Trump Organization’s finances, was treasurer of the Trump Foundation, the president’s charity, and has managed Trump’s private trust alongside the president’s eldest sons, Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr. He was reportedly subpoenaed by prosecutors earlier this year to testify before a grand jury as part of that inquiry.

    Link. Wisselberg knows everything about the Trump Org. Tick tock, motherfuckers.

  142. 142
    Kay says:

    And, I know I harp on this but I think it’s important.

    Trump never said red line. They fed him the theory:

    SCHMIDT: Last thing, if Mueller was looking at your finances and your family finances, unrelated to Russia — is that a red line?

    HABERMAN: Would that be a breach of what his actual charge is?

    The NYTimes set up this bright line and then all the punditry analysis followed them, but it never made sense. It’s ludicrous on its face. It’s not a legal line, it’s not a practical line, it’s not a line that’s in line with “norms. It’s invented and these two reporters invented it. And Trump ran with it. Because it’s very. very useful for the defense.

    Re-read this interview with Trump and see if you recognize this narrative. At one point the reporters refer to Trump obstructing as a “headache”. It’s created a “headache” for him- they’re actively diminshing the importance of the investigation. And everyone else in media accepted that frame and promoted it. The defense frame.

  143. 143
    Immanentize says:

    Yes, my syllabus, sure h as it is, is primarily topics as I use a casebook for the course. But you would know what I was discussing each week. Gin & Tonic and I think Eric asked about it last year, but I was frankly still too messed up to deal with it for public consumption. But I will this year. I also am hoping to make a few YouTube’s just to convey some basic info. For my students but no promises there.

  144. 144
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: They sure do. They’re trying everything they can to get the investigation to go away. It’s not going away.

  145. 145
    Kay says:


    I 100% agree with you. I think threatening people is publicly and obviously part of Trump’s toolkit.

    It doesn’t have to be criminal or unlawful activity. It just has to be embarrassing and bad for careers. And he must have a lot of it.

  146. 146
    Sebastian says:


    Sounds interesting. Does it have a high smoke point? Grapeseed does.

    I’ll have to check it out, thanks!

  147. 147
    Yarrow says:


    There are complicit actors in this mess who are just cooperating so their dirt won’t be made public. Good old fashioned black mail.

    Hello, Members of Congress and various media figures. Among others.

  148. 148
    Immanentize says:


    can people be indicted for actions that happened prior to passing of said law?

    Simple and clear — No. That is the very purpose of the ex post facto clause in the Constitution. You cannot make actions retroactively criminal. Period.

  149. 149
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Wow. Maybe just a tad…much in response to a harmless suggestion?

  150. 150
    Miss Bianca says:

    @RSA: Good for J-Rub.

  151. 151
    MomSense says:


    This is a problem with journalism/punditry generally. We have these media personalities and, with few exceptions, they have no expertise in the subject matter they are covering. It has been a chronic problem for all kinds of issues like healthcare, financial reform, education, etc.

  152. 152
    Kay says:


    Read the interview though. They allow him to lay out his lie-packed narrative and they validate it as he says it. They actually go much further than he does. He’s disorganized – sort of randomly trying to discredit- he’s an experienced crook – he’s been lying in interviews and depositions and lawsuits for 50 years, so he has a vague sense of what you say to diminish and discredit and distract. They give him a coherent defense. Tighten it. Hone it. And it’s been the narrative ever since.

  153. 153
    Sab says:

    @Kay: I have been wondering for years why we take the New York Times so seriously.

    Every journalist I know worships the place. I realize there are some exceptional reporters there, but huge areas of pure awfulness. And it’s not just the political coverage. It’s access journalism run amok. Even the arts coverage is infected with it.

  154. 154
    Sebastian says:


    Isn’t Haberman connected to Trump via her mother or something? All this is not a coincidence.

  155. 155
    MomSense says:

    Early on in this mess, in the summer of 2016, I did an old fashioned power map like I learned to do from old school organizers, and it really helps to figure out the various reasons and motivations for the actors in this drama. I used pencil and paper instead of yarn and push pins which is weird for a fiber person.

  156. 156
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Sab: “gerbil and bird videos”? Your vet does movies for cats? How awesome is that!

  157. 157
    Yarrow says:

    @Sebastian: Her mother is (was?) a high level executive for the PR firms that represented Trump and the Kushner family. There are no coincidences.

  158. 158
    Yarrow says:

    @MomSense: What did you determine?

  159. 159
    WereBear says:

    @Sab: You are all so welcome!

    Now that I have a keyboard for my iPad, my Chromebook has been handed down to the cats to watch videos with, especially in winter when the windows get boring.

  160. 160
    Yarrow says:

    @Immanentize: I didn’t see that you’d injured yourself. Sorry to hear that. Best wishes for a swift recovery.

  161. 161
    Kay says:


    It amuses me because low level, ordinary criminals do this all the time. They will call the police and the police come and pop THEM for something – they have a warrant or a meth pipe on the table – they make this crazy and dumb distinction. They see their activities as divided – the unlawful part and the lawful part, but of course police don’t see it that way. They arrest people for lawbreaking. Period. Smarter criminals don’t do it- the arrogant and dumb and belligerent do.

  162. 162
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Immanentize: ooh, Imm, if you do some Youtube lectures, please let us know!
    Sorry to hear about your arm – jeez, it’s just one damn thing after another as we get older.

  163. 163
    Kay says:


    We have had confidential informants arrested for crimes that are not part of the crime they are informing on. They say “but I’m a CI!”. Yes, but that was the meth case in THAT county. This is the forged prescription in THIS one. They are criminals, so they’re not limited to one specialty :)

  164. 164

    @Kay: What do you think it is with NYT politics desk? Money, kompromat, careerism? What is the reason for their abject failure to commit journalism?

  165. 165
    MomSense says:


    There are layers to this. I’m probably at the same place you are in terms of understanding how things are connected and why. I’m looking at this like a campaign or a social movement. You have a former super power that became a regional power of an ever shrinking region and yet they possess enough concentrated wealth and strategic and tactical skills to effect outsized influence. At the same time there is a network of oligarchs and powerful people either through multinational business or state owned business who have been networking and making money by working together for decades. This group of people really don’t have any loyalty to anything other than amassing more money and power. They’ve been working together. Let’s just say trump and his evil progeny are not at the top of the food chain.

  166. 166
    Yarrow says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Why not all of the above? I can see an editor or manager of some sort being compromised (kompromat) for any number of reasons–money, infidelity, abuse of women, whatever–and they then spike stories, hire certain people, lean coverage in certain directions, etc. Along the way, lower level people follow their lead because of money or wanting to advance their career. At some point it becomes How It is Done At The New York Times.

  167. 167
    Elizabelle says:

    Quick question, cuz I have a rightwing friend saying it is not:

    Do most American schools still say the Pledge of Allegiance? What is going on in your kid’s or grandkid’s school?

  168. 168
    MomSense says:


    Look into the history of the NYT real estate and finances. Things start to make more sense.

  169. 169
    MomSense says:


    Public schools do.

  170. 170
    Yarrow says:

    @MomSense: Yes, that sounds similar to my assessment. In addition to the oligarchs they’ve involved other very wealthy individuals around the globe. Like the 1MDB scandal in Malaysia. We aren’t even talking about China. This is so much bigger than just Russia, but right now we’re talking about Russia.

    Also, there are people who have been turned or at least co-opted and are assisting Russia. I’m skeptical of Junker of the EU. There are more. Of course all these people need a docile media, so they’ve been working the refs (the role the media plays) for years. Then they bought them.

  171. 171
    Yarrow says:

    @MomSense: Yep. There’s a long sordid history there. I do not forget the NYT said we shouldn’t worry about Hitler.

  172. 172
    Amir Khalid says:

    I find Fleetwood Mac’s concert performances of that song amazing. It’s been over forty years since the breakup that song is about. And over all that time, Stevie Nicks would stare Lindsay Buckingham down to sing the line, “You’ll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you!” Every single time, apparently.

  173. 173
    JanieM says:

    @Michael Cain:

    They’re not disciplined enough to be spies.


    It’s what Adam’s previous thread made me think of. Clickbait seems like the loosest loose cannon ever spawned, and yet Adam’s post made it seem as if he’s actually working from a narrow script and sticking to it. It’s a circle I have a hard time squaring. I suppose fear of the big man may stiffen spines effectively enough, or maybe having the loosest loose cannon ever spawned in the White House has the same effect in the end as having a disciplined agent would.

  174. 174
    WereBear says:

    @Spanky: I am loving this chain of happy cat events :)

  175. 175
    Yutsano says:

    @Sab: Suggestion for your husband: see if he can find a pain specialist who is acquainted with spinal cord stimulation technology. If he gets the trial and it helps, the surgery is worth it. It definitely made a difference for me.

  176. 176
    WaterGirl says:

    @Avalune: Leto is back in the hospital? I thought he was home. Or maybe there will be a series of hospital stays for more surgeries, with home time in between?

  177. 177
    Avalune says:

    @WaterGirl: He was out but had to have his gall bladder removed suddenly this week. He will be released tomorrow.

  178. 178
    WaterGirl says:

    @Avalune: I am officially declaring that NOT FAIR! Geez.

    Glad he gets to come home tomorrow!

  179. 179
    John Fremont says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Let me guess, a lot of them were retired military too.

  180. 180
    StringOnAStick says:

    @Avalune: Did they give Leto a lot of V#codin? according to my Pharmacy reference book, a side effect can be your gallbladder going bad. Mine did it after two rounds of knee scopes with that for pain control. Gallbladder removed 6 months later with big painful stones.

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