Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Same As It Ever Was

(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)

137 replies
  1. 1
    Aleta says:

    From Mary G and PaulWartenberg last night:

    Mary G

    Whoa, this.. “In addition to the existence of city patrol, the ELC reveals Border Patrol’s belief in its ability to demand assistance from any civilian, and, if they refuse, the option to charge them with a misdemeanor or issue a fine of up to $1,000.” https://t.co/DbG439qwIo— Melissa del Bosque (@MelissaLaLinea) January 7, 2019

    This shit is unAmerican as fuck.

    @Mary G:
    Jesus. That’s the same penalty they applied to people who refused to help bounty hunters round up accused “slaves” under the Fugitive Slave Act back in the 1850s.

  2. 2
    WereBear says:

    It is time for everyone else to realize just how deep the shit is getting, and how dangerous.

    We’ve been shouting about the dangers since the W administration.

  3. 3
    OzarkHillbilly says:


  4. 4
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    Happy Elvis Day everybody!

  5. 5
    Baud says:

    @WereBear: I don’t know. Do you think we’ve finally gotten over our obsession with imperfect Democrats?

  6. 6
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Aleta: The link to Melissa del Bosque’s tweet thread is busted.

    Here’s a fixed one.

  7. 7
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: No.

  8. 8
    John S. says:


    I suppose that depends on whether the next imperfect Democrat is of the mold “let’s play nice with Republicans and look forward not backwards” or not.

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    @John S.: Then we’re screwed, because that will almost certainly be the case to some extent.

  10. 10
    Aleta says:

    A good thread, incl comments to it:

    * Robert Costa. @costareports


4. My top Trump admin sources say they see little downside to going “all out” now on the wall. Rallies their voters, tests Dems’ mettle, and gives POTUS a chance to be seen as fighting on his signature issue ahead of a likely rough year of probes and battles w/ House Dems


5. The only caveat to all of this is that WH knows GOP holding together is critical. That’s why POTUS and VP are phoning mbrs. That’s in part why there is a speech to nation and trip to border. Direct msg to skittish Rs that this is the line, this is a crisis, so hold on tight.


6. While VP Pence’s pitch today signaled the admin’s possible action, so did voices on right who have POTUS’s ear. Trump confidant Sean Hannity said, “I’m guessing he’s going to declare a national emergency.”

    @OzarkHillbilly: gracias

  11. 11
    Lapassionara says:

    @Baud: Yes. Yes we are.

    Good morning, everyone. I have to board an airplane tomorrow. Not looking forward to putting my life in the hands of disgruntled federal employees.

  12. 12
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning,Everyone 😄😄😄

  13. 13
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  14. 14
    trnc says:

    If the dems get some airtime to respond, I hope they’ll produce photos and show that the pres wants to put a 30 foot wall in front of 1000 foot mountains.

    ETA: And I hope they ask why it only became an emergency after 2 years with a rubber stamp congress.

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @Aleta: Good comment about why shut down the government if he believes he can declare a national emergency.

  16. 16
    Betty Cracker says:

    @trnc: I hope they work in Nancy Pelosi’s “beaded curtain” line again. It was delightfully contemptuous.

  17. 17
    Cermet says:

    So if this orange fart cloud does declare a “State of Emergency” and the reptilian party accepts this, then by this action any and all future presidents can declare any such thing just to fund any/all pet projects at will? Really? These ass wipes reptilian party members and that low life piece of orange shit want to go there?

  18. 18
    Aleta says:

    @rikyrah: ⭐️ Good morning. 🌲

  19. 19
    satby says:

    @Cermet: they continue to think that they’re going to be able to stay in power.

  20. 20

    @Viva BrisVegas: Did you get a present for Kim Jong Un?

  21. 21
    John S. says:


    We’re screwed either way. Unless someone has an idea for how a Democrat can beat Trump at Calvinball. Because not playing the game doesn’t seem to work, and walking away from the game only results in getting beaned in the head from behind.

  22. 22
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Did Drumpf get “emergency” idea from the Яussians? (video)

  23. 23

    @John S.: Have you heard about Baud!2020!?

  24. 24
    MagdaInBlack says:

    You’re assuming future Presidents.
    That assumes elections
    Just sayin’ 😊

  25. 25
    Baud says:


    Don’t look forward or back, but sideways.

  26. 26

    @Baud: Exactly. Finally got my watch.

  27. 27
    Baud says:


    Samsung? I keep looking at them, but I feel like I won’t find it useful enough for the price.

  28. 28
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Cermet: Hence my doubt that it will ever happen. Every single Republican in Congress can see the danger and Mitch’s ego is especially averse to irrelevancy.

  29. 29
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Beto O’Rourke is planning a road trip to meet voters outside of Texas as he decides whether to run for the 2020 Democratic nomination.

    The report notes that the former congressman wouldn’t be visiting the early primary states, but he would visit college campuses.

    Mr. O’Rourke’s trip would begin from his El Paso home and keep him away from Iowa and other early-voting states. Mr. O’Rourke doesn’t plan to be accompanied by staff or press, though he may document the trip on social media and allow people he meets to do so as well. He doesn’t plan to make a final decision on a presidential bid until at least February.


    Dropping into college campuses, where he will likely receive a warm and enthusiastic reception, could give him a chance to show that he has the ability to inspire and mobilize Democratic voters.

    After all, if Democrats are going to beat Trump, they need a nominee who is likable and has the ability to excite voters who might otherwise stay home on election day. (link)


  30. 30
    WereBear says:

    @Baud: Well, there’s a chronic illness.

    I’m saying we aren’t under any illusions about this being a normal situation, but now we have lots of other people finally gping WTF!

  31. 31
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @John S.: During the AOC dance kerfuffle, somebody posted what they thought was the GrOPers’ inspiration: this Michelle Malkin “LOSER” cheer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mPkOberRCo

    Y’know, these GrOPers are pretty pathetic. The only things that keep ’em going are hate, and plutocrats’ money. They don’t actually have much talent, most of ’em. I think we can win b/c we have talented folks, and we’re the majority. C’mon: yes Shitler knows how to manipulate a lotta shit. But we have an army of folks who aren’t all marching in lockstep, and we’re legion. Have heart! AOC and Rashida Tlaib are both on our side! All they got is Pigmuck King!

  32. 32

    @Baud: Yup the big Galaxy Watch. I like it but I’ve got to find a watch face I like. I may have to build my own.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: He’s going to stream it on Instagram, isn’t he?

  34. 34
    Kay says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    Would he really need to get it from the Russians? They sent soldiers to the border for the midterms to protect Republican incumbents from voters – they’ve already done a fake national emergency. This is the second, and it won’t be the last.

    House Democrats plan hearings on the fake midterm caravan crisis and troop deployment, so that may slow them down a little on this particular propaganda tactic – I’m a little concerned that Kelly and Mattis ran away before they could be questioned on it- they both had to be in on it.

  35. 35

    @Baud: Sounds like he’s trying to invade the patron saint of Burlington’s territory.

  36. 36

    I’ll be 59 in two weeks from yesterday, which was Jerry Brown’s last day as Governor. I did a little calculation: a man named Edmond G. Brown* has been Governor of my state for 38% of my life.

    *Pat Brown for my first 7 years and Jerry for 16 years.

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: We should have a party thread to celebrate.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: They can still be subpoenaed and questioned about it.

    ETA i wouldn’t be the least surprised if Mattis was eager to testify. he really does not like trump.

  39. 39
    Baud says:

    @Kay: It’s just an escalation from the old color coded terror alert.

  40. 40
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Baud: I read he would stream seemly mundane tasks like doing his laundry and how it attracted large audiences and I thought, “this can’t be true,” so I looked up the video and not only was it true, but I found it surprisingly watchable.

  41. 41
    SFAW says:

    @John S.:

    We’re screwed either way. Unless someone has an idea for how a Democrat can beat Trump at Calvinball. Because not playing the game doesn’t seem to work, and walking away from the game only results in getting beaned in the head from behind.

    Shitgibbon screeches about something, in his usual fashion
    “Reporter” asks a random Dem for a response
    Dem response: “The last time I believed anything Donald Trump said was when he said he was a liar. The last truthful thing I heard him say was “I, Donald J. Trump.’ Everything else has been a lie, or demonstrably false.”

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    For my campaign, I plan to attach a GoPro to my body and live stream 24/7. No one will be more transparent than Baud! 2020!

  43. 43
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Norm Ornstein:

    Here is the brutal reality: because Barack Obama did not disparage, degrade or threaten TV networks, or call them the enemy of the people, they were perfectly content to deny him airtime for his immigration address. Because Trump did all of those things, they were intimidated.

    This pretty much sums up how the mainstream media has treated Trump with kid gloves despite the fact that he has openly heckled them and even placed journalists in fear of their lives from his deplorable supporters. Now they are fine with rewarding him with eight minutes to spew lies without contradiction. Keep in mind that if Trump gets away with declaring an emergency to build his phantom wall, he will feel empowered to declare emergencies in other situations to get what he wants. What’s next?

  44. 44
    MattF says:

    Is anyone looking into exactly how Vlad Putin will profit from a wall on the southern border? That would, after all, explain a lot.

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I’m still angry that we Dems didn’t have Hillary’s back when the media went after her for not holding enough press conferences.

  46. 46
    Kay says:


    Chris Hayes
    14h14 hours ago
    Next week: President Trump announces prime time address devoted entirely to the topic of Nancy Pelosi being a member of ISIS.

    Except the low quality hires wouldn’t use Pelosi, because they’re intimidated by her.

  47. 47
    Kay says:

    Ben Wikler
    10h10 hours ago
    At the Tony Evers/Mandela Barnes inaugural ball in Wisconsin, Tammy Baldwin takes the stage to open up the program. For six years, she kept the light of progressivism alive here. Tonight, every constitutional officer in the state is a Democrat.

  48. 48
    frosty says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That’s a funny statistic. My only other comment is “Lucky you!”. I lived in SoCal in the 70s so an Edmund G. Brown was my Governor for 6% of my life (I left in the middle of his term, when Prop 13 passed).

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    @Kay: Welcome back, Wisconsin.

  50. 50
    satby says:

    Today would be a great day for Bobby Three Sticks to unseal an indictment.

  51. 51
    Kay says:


    if Mattis was eager to testify. he really does not like trump.

    He liked Trump enough to keep his mouth shut on sending soldiers to the border for the GOP midterm campaign. I’d like to know how exactly that transpired, so hopefully he’ll be truthful when he’s called to testify. He may be busy this year. He’s also a witness in the Theranos fraud, where he was on the board.

  52. 52
    Baud says:


    Not implausible. Remember the Obamas and the terrorist fist bump.

  53. 53
    Amir Khalid says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    Good. The more credible Democratic prospects there are, the harder it will be for Wilmer to get attention.

  54. 54
    low-tech cyclist says:

    The ideal Dem response to Trump’s speech: see the pic in Schooley’s tweet.

  55. 55
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Suck on it, ya bunch of losers: “I believe Missouri is the promised land,”

    A voice on the mountain

    The idea of The Ranch emerged on 7 November 1983, when Stephen Laub was at his home in Motoqua, an enclave in south-west Utah for members of a polygamous church called the Apostolic United Brethren, or AUB. He was in the cellar, stocking and preparing it to ride out an apocalypse at the end of the millennium, when he heard someone call his name. He went to his wives to ask what they wanted. They said they didn’t call him and didn’t hear a voice.

    He heard the voice over eight days. Eventually, he tracked the voice to a nearby mountain. He started hiking. The voice had more instructions as he hiked farther up the mountain. As he recorded in his journal: “The Lord told me he wants me to go to Missouri and buy a farm.”

    I am beginning to think God really isn’t very fond of Mormons. He doesn’t think much of Miserians either.

    For Mormons of all stripes, Missouri – specifically Jackson county – is a landmark. Mormons began arriving there in 1831 and that year, Smith had a prophecy that Zion was in Jackson county and that Jesus would return there one day. But Latter-day Saints had conflicts with other Missouri settlers over land, commerce and governance and by 1838, violence got so bad modern textbooks call it the Missouri Mormon War. The ugliest episode happened that year, when 17 Latter-day Saints and one sympathizer were massacred at a place called Haun’s Mill. Latter-day Saints soon began leaving the state.

    When Laub hiked down from the mountain and arrived home, his brother Derril Laub and another resident, Bruce Compton, were there to help him with the cellar. He told them they needed to go to Missouri. Because Latter-day Saints believe their movement started with a revelation from God, no one challenged him. They did ask where in Missouri they were supposed to go. To provide them with an answer, Stephen Laub hiked back up the mountain to seek a clarification. God told him to go about 100 miles south of Independence.

    Where religious fervor isn’t just tolerated, it’s required.

    The next day, the Laub brothers, some of their sons, Compton and another resident named Kent Andra loaded into a blue pickup truck and began driving east. “The idea was to build the kingdom of God, establish Zion,” Compton, now 76, said in a recent interview.

    The men stopped in St George, Utah to make a phone call. It was to the president of their church, Owen Allred, in Salt Lake City. Stephen conveyed his plan. Allred didn’t like it. After being driven from Missouri, the early leaders of the Latter-day Saints issued prophecies saying God’s wrath would be visited upon western Missouri. While some Mormons believe the burned towns and bloodshed western Missouri suffered during the American Civil War fulfilled the prophecy and wiped the slate clean, Allred was among those who thought Missouri still had it coming.

    At last, a voice of reason.

    He told Stephen to go look at Missouri, but not to buy anything.

    Good advice.

    The truck stopped in Fort Scott, Kansas, just across the state line from Missouri. The men went into a real estate office, where one of the men saw a pamphlet advertising 600 acres between the Missouri towns of Stockton and Humansville. It was a wooded, undeveloped property on one of the Ozark mountains’ massive plateaus. The men drove to the 600 acres to inspect it. They had found their place.

    The men negotiated a purchase price of $300 an acre and paid $3,000 earnest money. They promised to make a down payment of $34,000 within 30 days. That was money the men didn’t have when they made the agreement. Other believers back in Utah chipped in, and the financing of the property has become part of its mythology — proof that God wanted the believers to be in southwest Missouri.

    The group contributions were also the first example of ranch residents practicing what’s called a United Order, a fundamentalist Mormon form of communal living where followers give money, entire pieces of property or time and talents to benefit the community.


  56. 56
    plato says:

    Here is the brutal reality: because Barack Obama did not disparage, degrade or threaten TV networks, or call them the enemy of the people, they were perfectly content to deny him airtime for his immigration address. Because Trump did all of those things, they were intimidated. Oy. – Norman Ornstein (@NormOrnstein)

    Because totus thug, the group of parasites and the fourth estate fifth columnists are all corrupt complicit motherfuckers and they tend to have each others’ back.

  57. 57

    In the old Babylon 5 TV series, Delenn says this thing about the Minbari/Earth war. She says, “We all went insane together.”

    That’s how I feel today. I am being encouraged to go insane in order to keep company with the president, his party, and his voters company, or at least to avoid being attacked by them.

    A couple of days ago, Kos had a piece on why anti-Trump people can’t forgive Trump supporters, and a big chunk of it was this. It feels like the people supporting Trump operate from the same half-baked world he does, so we feel like they must be lying about what they say they believe. It give us no place to stand. We are being invited to go insane.

  58. 58
    Kay says:


    It really was a big win. That’s Sherrod Brown’s role in Ohio now- he’s the only statewide Dem. I’m kind of dreading the start of the county Party central committee year, which is next Tuesday. Ohio Democrats are really depressed and they’re expressing that here by attacking their own board of elections members for bullshit things like “disrespecting” older members.

    The Democratic Party’s biggest problem is everyone thinks they are or should be a leader. No one wants to be rank and file. We’re a group composed exclusively of people who think they should be running things. All of them. They’re either actual leaders or people who have been unfairly denied their natural leadership position.

  59. 59

    @frosty: The Prop 13 election was my first, I voted against it. It is an interest stat, I used to say: “When I was born the Governor was Edmund G. Brown, when I graduated from high school the Governor was Edmund G. Brown, when I graduated from college the Governor was Edmund G. Brown and the current Governor is Edmund G. Brown”. I sad to see Chairman Jerry ride off into the sunset, and hope that Gavin can do half as good a job.

  60. 60
    rikyrah says:


  61. 61

    I’ve been going back to some of my old IR pics and reprocessing them, here’s one of Mission San Juan Capistrano. I like the way this one turned out, I added some color from a visual shot(basilica domes, tile roofs, paths…

  62. 62
    Baud says:


    The Democratic Party’s biggest problem is everyone thinks they are or should be a leader. No one wants to be rank and file. We’re a group composed exclusively of people who think they should be running things. All of them. They’re either actual leaders or people who have been unfairly denied their natural leadership position.


  63. 63
    rikyrah says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    I have been telling you from the get go that those responsible for Dolt45 will NEVER BE FORGIVEN 😠😠

    Operate from that, and the consequences of that belief, and all is fine.

  64. 64
    Honus says:

    @MattF: forget vlad. Eric Prince was on CNN last night sowing fear about fentanyl coming over the border and was never asked if he would profit from the wall as a government contractor.

  65. 65
    rikyrah says:

    I love your pics like this 🤗

  66. 66
    Chetan Murthy says:


    Eric Prince was on CNN last night sowing fear about fentanyl coming over the border

    What an imbecile. The shit’s so potent, for some variants (carfentanil) you can make a solution, wet a piece of paper, and mail that in an envelope as a *letter*. You don’t need to carry that shit over the border. Just mail it from Prince’s paymasters’ country (China).

  67. 67

    @rikyrah: Thanks, I’ve been redoing them to make the sky darker and add in some reds and yellows that get lost in processing.

  68. 68
    Baud says:

    @Chetan Murthy: I’ll assume you read that somewhere.

  69. 69
    Another Scott says:

    @Baud: Dunno. My J was ranting to her sister over the phone last night that the Democrats are still doing it wrong. They have very, very strong opinions – and aren’t afraid to express them – but don’t actually do much of anything themselves except gripe about the only people who are actually opposing Donnie’s policies.

    The St. Bernard disease is still virulent in too many people who aren’t and don’t want to be leaders themselves….



  70. 70
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Baud: Indeed. I forget where, but it was a long article about fentanyl and its variants. It’s all coming from China, and the Chinese government turns a blind eye as long as the stuff is only for export. Turnabout is fair play after what the West did during the Opium wars, I guess. In any case, fentanyl is incredibly potent. There was this instance where a small package contained enough to KILL the entire populations of NY & NJ states. I mean, the idea that you gotta carry that shit across any border is just ridiculous. Just mail it. Even if only 1% of the packages get thru, you’re still rich/rich/rich.

  71. 71
    plato says:


    The Democratic Party’s biggest problem is everyone thinks they are or should be a leader. No one wants to be rank and file. We’re a group composed exclusively of people who think they should be running things. All of them.

    That’s a pretty broad stroke, Kay. Didn’t the rank and file dems vote in a historical dem majority just a few weeks back? OH may be the stupid exception.

  72. 72
  73. 73
    Baud says:


    Trump has focused our attention for the moment. The big question is what happens after he’s finally gone.

  74. 74
  75. 75
    Kay says:


    Maybe, but I’m talking about the Dem base. The 20 to 25% of Democrats who are locally active and engaged. It is constant and it’s been true as long as I have been involved. There are many, many more “you should” people than “we will” people.

  76. 76
    Jeffro says:

    From this guy I know’s FB page:

    This “national emergency” a complete lie, and this ‘man’ has utterly betrayed his oath of office and the American people. He has shut down the government – meaning TSA and Coast Guard employees, among others, are working without pay to keep us safe – in order to shore up Trump’s support with his wavering base (most of whom, by now, are finally beginning to see the light).

    And so he’s going to declare a national emergency in the face of overwhelming evidence that there IS NO EMERGENCY. Note that we had no need to shut down the government…until a Democratic Congress was elected to hold Trump accountable!

    Friends on the right, just picture what the reaction would be if a Democratic president – especially one as unpopular and crooked as Trump – tried to declare a national emergency (with all the presidential powers that entails) in order to distract from the accountability and investigations that are surely coming and are long overdue.

    That Democrat would be impeached, convicted, thrown out of office, tarred and feathered, and tied to a rocket headed for Pluto the following morning. And rightly so.

    This is a travesty and it’s past time to speak up. Every ‘adult’, every remotely responsible figure who had tried to work in this administration and keep it from going off the rails is gone. Trump knows that his businesses, his fake foundation, his campaign, his transition, and multiple cabinet agencies and officials are going to be thoroughly exposed and put before the American people. This narcissist knows that with that exposure, great shame is coming for him. He only knows how to “lie and buy” his way out of trouble. Not this time.

    This is OUR country, this is OUR democracy, not some banana republic. And for the last time, Republicans and conservatives need to wake up and actually take action to stop this criminal, or own the consequences. Call your members of Congress and tell them to take a stand, today.

  77. 77
    Baud says:

    @Jeffro: Your dad finally see the light?

  78. 78
    A Ghost To Most says:

    CNN reporting major networks will broadcast Democratic response to Lyin’ Donald.

  79. 79
    Kay says:


    IRS employees could open the government. If they refuse to work for a month with no pay and process tax refunds the Trump Administration will have to fold.

    There’s risk for them, so I’m not lecturing them, but if they stick together (key!) they won’t get fired.

    They get away with this because there’s no organized pushback from employees. A stop work action from wage workers would act as a needed check on feckless, self-serving elites who are bad managers. Poor quality executives. Doing a bad job. They need to be checked by the rank and file.

  80. 80

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I agree, but I’ve been looking at it differently in the past week. It’s a struggle between reality and whatever it is that Trump’s snorting. (Which may be his own dopamine.) A certain part of the population is susceptible to his unreality. But there’s been a lot of pushback, and the pushback has sometimes prevailed, as in the court decisions against his policies. Now our side has gained control of the House of Representatives. Trump is getting more desperate and more unreal.

    I don’t know what will happen next, but from what I see on my Twitter feed, our side is working up to a major resistance of whatever Trump does tonight. The struggle is getting more intense, and more open about Trump’s incapacity for the presidency.

    It’s not near over, barring a variety of surprises. We have to slog on.

  81. 81
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    OH may be the stupid exception.

    For a second there, I thought you were referring to me. The sad part is, I wasn’t sure you were wrong. ;-)

  82. 82
    Kay says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Maybe they could send a suggestion out to newspapers that they could try something else other than putting Trump’s lie in the headlines, and adding quotation marks. Maybe they could add some value- come up with an actual idea on how to write up the lying President in a way that doesn’t serve his ends. Anyone can pull out the quote and make it a headline. They need to add value.

    Three years out and they’re still pulling out the biggest lie of the day and making it the headline. Fix it. Write your own fucking headline. Don’t use Trump’s.

  83. 83
    rikyrah says:

    Uh huh 😒

    (((DeanObeidallah))) (@DeanObeidallah) Tweeted:
    This is what the wall fight is about as Graham admits-Trump wants to “BREAK” the Democrats to prove to his base his tough: Lindsey Graham on Shutdown: If Trump Doesn’t ‘Break’ Democrats Now, ‘It’s Going to Be a Terrible 2019’

    https://t.co/pX1asqy4SV via @mediaite https://twitter.com/DeanObeidallah/status/1082617922739228672?s=17

  84. 84
    JMG says:

    Trump’s actions and words are not those of a man holding pocket aces. More like a three-nine unsuited. What are his options. Declare the emergency and have a court fight he’ll likely lose? (right wing they may be, but the Supremes’ life tenure means they hold a long view and can see a future where a Democratic President uses emergencies to cripple THIER power). Or just hold out until the Republicans behind him crack? Maybe in early 2017 Trump could’ve appealed to the nation and changed some minds on the wall. Too late now.

  85. 85
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: If that’s the goal, then declaring a national emergency doesn’t really break Dems. In fact, it eliminates any need to keep the government shut down and allows Dems to continue to refuse to fund the Wall.

  86. 86
    Jeffro says:

    @Baud: His flashes of insight about Trumpov only happen to coincide with severe dips in the stock market, so nope on that.

  87. 87
    Baud says:

    @Jeffro: I’ll be praying for a depression for your sake.

  88. 88
    Jeffro says:


    Lindsey Graham on Shutdown: If Trump Doesn’t ‘Break’ Democrats Now, ‘It’s Going to Be a Terrible 2019’

    Graham is telling it almost completely true: the only reason for the shutdown is because Democrats won the majority in Congress, and accountability is coming. If Trumpov doesn’t slap them around/keep them distracted, he’s a goner. Unfortunately for him, he’s playing a losing hand and we Dems can ride this all the way to 2020 if need be.

    I’m more convinced than ever Trumpov won’t even be in office by then one way or another. The question is (and by ‘question’, I mean the question that all Americans should be pounding on Republican members of Congress is), what price will America pay before this is ended?

  89. 89
    Jeffro says:

    @Baud: Let’s not have the whole country take a hit in order to get RWNJD to fully understand the depths of what he’s been tacitly endorsing, please. (Plus, I’ll eventually need those investments to do well so that when I inherit them, I can donate them to progressive causes ;)

  90. 90
    rikyrah says:

    ronald alexander (@djchefron) Tweeted:
    The defection of former Bernie Sanders staffers to Beto O’Rourke worries some people in Bernie World, but not for the reason you might expect.

    https://t.co/dg1LBe75i2 via @HuffPostPol https://twitter.com/djchefron/status/1082605248651427840?s=17

  91. 91
    oldgold says:

    The Democrats need to be careful in making their demand for equal time; particularly, if it is for an immediate response.

    First, Making an effective immediate response to a prepared remarks is damn difficult. (Exhibit A -every response to the State of the Union deforestation the last 50 years.)

    Second, who makes the response? For all her political gifts, Pelosi is not a particularly compelling television performer. Schumer is worse.

  92. 92
    Baud says:

    @Jeffro: You’re a good man, Jeffro.

  93. 93
    A Ghost To Most says:

    I see things differently. I see a bunch of young journalists acting like real journalists, and the villagers either relearning how to be journalists, or being pushed aside (e.g. Chinchilla, Dancing Dave, Tweety, et al.). Obviously, Chuck Toad alone shows there’s more work to do.

    Networks are like big ships, and take time to turn.

  94. 94
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @oldgold: Tag team of Ted Lieu and Rashida Tlaib.

  95. 95
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @rikyrah: berniebros, never heard of VORP. Idiots. Of course O’Rourke’s gonna vote somewhat conservative — he’s from Texas, goddammit. I mean, Wilmer fucking votes for the NRA, gosh I wonder why. Idiots.

  96. 96
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Making an effective immediate response to a prepared remarks is damn difficult.

    Trust me, trump is not giving prepared remarks. He will have some that stephen miller will have spent hours preparing while channeling his inner Hitler, but trump will veer off into uncharted territory about 30 seconds in.

  97. 97
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: We had similar problems in my old county-level party. It has been run by about a dozen middle-aged women forever, and every new person who came in had scads of criticism about how it was run and lots of ideas about how to change it. The incumbents had a canny way of addressing this: after making sure the critic was at least minimally competent and committed, they’d hand the function (outreach, registration, etc.) off to the critic and let them discover how hard it was. That usually didn’t last long.

    It wasn’t that the incumbents were running things perfectly. There was lots of room for improvement! But, like you noted, everyone wanted to run things. I was one of the exceptions to this as I genuinely prefer the grunt work, but that seemed to be a rare quality. I think this dynamic has been worse since 2016 — largely because of an influx of new people.

    Anyhoo, I haven’t joined the county-level party for my new location. TBH, I’m enjoying the break from it. I hate meetings, and I despise the petty jockeying and nit-picking that comes with membership in that sort of organization. But when I eventually do, I won’t try to tell folks how to run things, and I’ll volunteer to be a PFC, not a general.

  98. 98
  99. 99
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @rikyrah: It’s hard to belive one can break a party less than a month after a major victory. These clowns really don’t get politics.

  100. 100
    Chris says:


    I’ve heard of police departments wanting similar rules, once again prompting me to ask: what the fuck do we pay these people for? They can’t shut up about how they Stand Ready To Do Violence On My Behalf, and how deep down in places I don’t talk about at dinner parties, I Need Them On That Wall. Fine. Earn your fucking paycheck, then.

  101. 101
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:


    Like this?

  102. 102
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Chris: I think these sorts of things could be aptly classed as “Law and Order Porn”.

  103. 103
    lamh36 says:

    good morning

    looks like big 3 are gonna broadcast Dem response.

    folks should #BoycottTrumpPrimeTime and tune in JUST for the Dem response! Don’t give the nets the ratings for the Chump propaganda

    Also too, Much as I like Nancy P…I want the BEST of the Dem speakers to do the response! Can we get Kamala or Schiff, or Hakeem Jefferies! Someone from the CBC!


  104. 104
    Dr. Ronnie James, D.O. says:

    “the president’s address, which if his past statements are any indication will be full of malice and misinformation,”

    This clause is an accurate, concise summary of the POUTUS’ record. It’s the kind of thing journalists need to do routinely to convey a minimal amount of pertinent information to the public. Without this type of thing, journalism becomes mere stenography, gossip mongering. And yet the MSM refuses to do even this basic task, insisting that’s its vaunted principles are useless against Trump, a demented, questionably literate TV addict who they pretend is some kind of 11th dimensional media savant. What principle is violated by pointing out the pertinent parts of someone’s track record?

  105. 105
    oatler. says:

    Feeling down about the whole situation, but Mueller’s starting to sound like a big McGuffin on this case. Where is he?

  106. 106
    Chris says:


    This is part of why I was never crazy about President Elizabeth Warren. The Democratic urge, every time they see a shiny new candidate, to immediately want to put them in the White House, never mind the many other levels of government that are just as crucial and that could also use some love.

    (Specifically in Warren’s case, I think we need people in Congress pushing the country towards the left and building legislative support for it. And I think she’s better at that than she ever would be as President. Same would be true of Sanders, if he ever grew up and learned to be a team player).

  107. 107
    Elizabelle says:

    I kind of wish Hillary Clinton could give the Democratic response.

    Not like she didn’t warn us. About all of this.

  108. 108
    plato says:

    Several dozen House Republicans might cross the aisle to vote for Democratic bills to reopen shuttered parts of the government.

    W.H. officials and Republican leaders privately worry that GOP support for the shutdown is eroding, Politico reports.https://t.co/S2zwmgIW9h— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) January 8, 2019

    Good. Let’s see if the senate rethug cowards grow a pair.

  109. 109
    Chris says:


    So he wants to be Viceroy of Afghanistan, Wyoming, and the Rio Grande? That guy’s gonna end up with more titles than a Hapsburg emperor.

  110. 110

    @lamh36: I don’t know what the Democratic leadership structure is in the House. I think Pelosi has been putting younger people in as assistant whips and things like that. Someone in that category may work. I think Ted Lieu is included, for instance.

  111. 111
    Elizabelle says:

    @Chris: Elizabeth Warren has a genuine message, and has put in work to bring it about. The CFPB.

    Please do not dismiss her so quickly. She is not a shiny new object. Maybe to you, but she has been in the public eye, and on record, with accessible well-written books and public speeches, for years upon years upon years.

  112. 112
    Immanentize says:

    @Chris: I am kinda getting tired of these types of candidate critiques.

    Right now, who is the declared presidential candidate that is better than Warren? Why is she the not-leader who needs to stay behind and save the country from below?

  113. 113
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Here is the real emergency


    While GOP leaders expect defections, they want to keep that number under 55: if that many Republicans join with all the House Democrats, they will create a veto-proof majority. Per Politico, though that would not help things along on the Senate side, where Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has followed Trump’s orders, it would be a blow to the President and optics of the shutdown.

    Grahm says the Trump must break the Democrats,
    “Democrat” and “Liberal” in wingnut speak means “the conservative who disagrees with me” So the State of Emergency is to make it so any Republican who doesn’t vote along party lines is a traitor.

  114. 114
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It has been run by about a dozen middle-aged women forever,

    Ours are a little older than middle aged, and they’re all men. They tried a coup last year, they tried to remove two (slightly) younger central committee members, but they lost the election and the way it played out that left an open seat with no candidate and a chance for the insurgents who had just survived the coup to appoint, and they appointed me. This all happened in one meeting so I was caught off guard and accepted the job :)

    I have to run in 2.5 years if I want to keep it but I probably won’t run. I will run as a delegate for Sherrod if he’s in at that point. That was fun in ’08, but you have to like caucuses, which I do. I literally like the smoke-filled room aspect of caucuses – I see that as a plus! I’m not sure I’m 100% a small “d” democrat.

  115. 115
    Dave says:

    @plato: Kinda difficult to break the other party, which made significant gains in th last election, when you are worried about members of your own party siding with them.

  116. 116
    artem1s says:

    well, we knew it would get worse before it would get better. I’m torn about it, but I can hardly blame the media for giving him the time. If the dolt keels over or completely comes unglued and they are rerunning Gilligan’s Island instead they would never live it down. If the major networks had had access to Nixon coming unglued in the WH in his final days, would we have wanted that to be aired? Aren’t they kind of obligated to provide proof, in real time, that he is unfit?
    I do think the criticisms about denying Obama prime time coverage is valid. Pelosi should get equal time. Perhaps reinstating some sort of fairness act is finally in order – hint, hint?

  117. 117
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: Congrats, I guess! ;-)

    As you know, the blue wave missed FL as well as OH, and I’ve heard there’s been a lot of infighting and bitterness in my old county party on that account. My husband and I voted early in the last election on the day before we moved, and we were already gone by the time the election rolled around. Kind of glad I missed that drama at the DEC, and I’m hoping the dust settles here before I join the party in this vastly more Republican county. My guess is they’re more used to being underdogs around here. I don’t think there’s any elected Democrat in this county at any level.

  118. 118
    plato says:

    A 20-year-old man has made a “comprehensive” confession that he was behind a data breach affecting hundreds of high-profile Germans, police say.

    Styling himself “G0d”, he published private information about politicians, journalists, and celebrities on Twitter, under the username @_0rbit.

    Investigators said the man was still in education and living with his parents.

    The suspect said he acted alone and out of annoyance at statements made by the public figures he attacked.

    About 1,000 people were affected, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    Politicians from every major political party except for the far-right AfD were targeted, although investigators said they had yet to find evidence of the suspect’s political inclinations.


  119. 119
    Barbara says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Try to imagine the volume of calls they are getting. It’s not just employees who are directly affected, it’s the satellite businesses that serve them, along with those that require some sort of federal interaction. For instance, what’s going on with meat inspections?

  120. 120
    magurakurin says:


    Second, who makes the response?

    Hakeem Jefferies

  121. 121
    Procopius says:

    @Chetan Murthy: They got no sense of humor, either. There is no such thing as a “conservative comedian.”

  122. 122
    vhh says:

    @Kay: They can be subpoenaed.

  123. 123

    @Kay: But, but I heard on this blog and NYT and other media outlets, that they are brave and noble and are going to save us all. They couldn’t even save their own jobs. Sad.

    ETA: Also too IRL, FWIW. The generals are going to save us meme was strong in 2017.

  124. 124
    Kay says:


    I’m sick of these hugely powerful people dodging all accountability because they’re (supposedly) not political – the military takes advantage of this and so does the judiciary. They’re using their (claimed) nonpartisan status to avoid real debate on their actions. Enough. They’re political actors. Let’s just admit that and move on.

  125. 125

    @Kay: Same here. Mattis as the moderate mythos is alive and well. It was on FP here yesterday.

  126. 126
    Kay says:

    I just did the ting I hate that I have dealt with my whole time in the work world. We have a two person tech assistance co that we use- a man and a woman. The man always comes out here so I’m used to dealing with him. So I called to get a laptop fixed and the woman gave me this complete rundown of what is wrong with it and I dropped it off. To her.

    I then called THE MAN today to ask about it. She just emailed me to tell me (politely) to call her because she is doing the work, which I know because I handed the fucking thing to her last night. I’m a douchebag. I cannot believe I did this.

    She’s kind of terse and businesslike so maybe I won’t send her a garbled wordy apology referencing the patriarchy but that’s what I would LIKE to do :)

  127. 127
    catclub says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    he will feel empowered to declare emergencies in other situations to get what he wants. What’s next?

    What has already been done. The tariffs he imposed were also via emergency.

  128. 128
    Amir Khalid says:

    Remain calm, and have no fear. Der Müller Gottes mahlt langsam, aber mahlt außerordentlich fein.

  129. 129
    Yarrow says:

    @schrodingers_cat: @Kay: As generals, aren’t they always supposed to be living up to their oaths or whatever, even when they retire. Can’t generals always be called back to active duty? If that is correct then they should always be able to be called before Congress to answer for their actions when they were held governmental positions.

  130. 130
    zhena gogolia says:


    Oh, good. I just read an interview with him and he sounds smart.

  131. 131
    Fair Economist says:

    @rikyrah: Just posting the “horrible policy sins” of O’Rourke the BernieBros are so worked up over:

    Voted to allow crude oil export.
    Voted to allow fast-track voting on trade deals (which is necessary to have trade deals; note he didn’t actually vote for any objectionable deals.)
    Supports Medicare-for-All but not immediate single payer.

    These are all either fine or at worst very weak tea. What they don’t mention is that O’Rourke has been good on immigration, gun control, and police brutality, where Bernie has been weak or even actively hostile to decent policy.

  132. 132
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Chetan Murthy:
    I think what’s really bothering them is that there are important Wilmeristas who no longer believe Wilmer is all that, and are gravitating towards the new hotness of Beto.

  133. 133
    satby says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I went looking for that on Kos, do you have a link?

  134. 134
    StringOnAStick says:

    There’s a part of me that thinks Senator Warren declared early mainly to head Wilmer off at the pass, and in truth plans to stay in the Senate. Before someone jumps on me saying she supported Wilmer’s “I was robbed” stance, let’s consider that she’s somehow become aware of just what a bad thing it is that Shitgibbon is in office and is likely to stay there if we don’t run someone against him who can actually win. Declaring early gets her policy proposals a lot more attention than they’d get just as one of 100 Senators, so there is some significant benefit to running even if the underlying reason is partially to run interference. Politics and political maneuvering isn’t all straight lines.

  135. 135
    WaterGirl says:

    @StringOnAStick: Between Elizabeth Warren and Beto O’Rourke, let’s hope that Wilmer decides not to run.

  136. 136
    J R in WV says:


    Feeling down about the whole situation, but Mueller’s starting to sound like a big McGuffin on this case. Where is he?

    You always seem to find something, anything, to feel down about the opposition to Trump’s attempted coup…

    But FYI, Mueller just got his Grand Jury in DC extended for at least six more months, no doubt after informing the judge in charge of that jury of exactly how many people are still being investigated and are subject to indictment over the next six months.

    Doing this huge job correctly is a long term project, not like a civil dispute between a Ford dealership and a shafted purchaser.

  137. 137
    StringOnAStick says:

    @WaterGirl: Word.

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