Networks to broadcast Trump’s lies about the border tomorrow night

According to Trump’s latest tweet, the networks have agreed to give him airtime tomorrow as requested:

I am pleased to inform you that I will Address the Nation on the Humanitarian and National Security crisis on our Southern Border. Tuesday night at 9:00 P.M. Eastern.

Maybe he’s lying — I haven’t seen confirmation from a credible source. But assuming it’s true, the networks have a responsibility here to fact-check the orange fart cloud in real time. Time to air a rebuttal by Nancy Pelosi, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or whomever the Democrats assign the task should be granted automatically, but it’s not enough.

Here’s a fact: Trump lies all the time. The volume of lies is unprecedented, and he lies as much or more about the border situation than any other topic. The networks know this. It’s not debatable. Even Fox News called out Sarah Huckabee Sanders for telling a big fat whopper about terrorists coming across the southern border yesterday (they’re not).

It’s not a bold prediction to say Trump will repeat the same debunked lies he uploaded into Huckabee Sanders’ brain-pan to deliver on Fox News. They’re the same lies he’s tweeted scores of times, the same lies mouthed by other administration toadies, like Kirstjen Nielsen.

I think it’s a bad move for the networks to give Trump a platform to repeat his lies, but I understand they’re in a difficult position. They refused airtime to President Obama for an address on immigration, but they weren’t running government shutdown clocks on every news network at the time.

So, if they’re going to give Trump a megaphone, they need to have journalists on hand to fact-check the lying fraud in real-time, in a chyron at the bottom of the screen, while he’s telling the lies. Daniel Dale of the Toronto Star fact-checks Trump speeches on Twitter live. He says it’s not that hard because Trump tells the same lies over and over.

As we’ve discussed here before, our Beltway media outlets haven’t adjusted to the fire-hose volume of lies coming out of this administration, and their failure to adapt is unacceptable. A fact-check chyron would be a good start.

Open thread.

131 replies
  1. 1
    Emerald says:

    A fact-check chyron would be a good start.

    This. Fairly easy to anticipate what he’ll say, too.

  2. 2
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Impeach the motherfuckers.

  3. 3
    The Moar You Know says:

    CNN has confirmed. They were the first ones out of the gate, kneepads on and ready. Gutless motherfuckers.

    They need to be accorded the same credence as Fox, given that they’re making at least as much money off him as Fox is and just as willing to let him spew whatever he wants for as long as he wants.

    My bets: there will be no Dem rebuttal allowed, there will be no fact-check chyron, and he will declare his “state of emergency” and we’ll be a step closer to a place we REALLY don’t want to be in as a nation.

  4. 4

    The media is complicit in this Russian takeover. From Fox and Brietbart to NYT and the Snooze Hour. We find ourselves in this predicament because they have broadcast and enabled Republican lies.

  5. 5
  6. 6
    germy says:

    I’m old enough to remember when the networks wouldn’t air Obama’s speeches. I’d have to hunt around online the next day just to find a clip.

  7. 7
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    posted this earlier, but it fits here. Every liberal blogger and tweeter should be repeating this

    Dan Pfeiffer @ danpfeiffer
    In a very similar situation in 2011, the networks gave Speaker Boehner air time to respond to a nationally televised address by President Obama.

    Will they make the same offer to the Democrats in 2019?

  8. 8
    randy khan says:

    It looks like a good opportunity to work on our DVR backlog.

  9. 9
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Just had a late lunch in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Lots of places closing at 5 pm so workers can pregame. I wonder if that’s in their union contract?

    Steve in Title Town, as the locals call it

  10. 10
    Punchy says:

    Why are we so upset that he’s giving a speech on a national broadcast? If history holds, he’ll look 80 kilos kooky and 10 stones stupid. I can’t imagine this speech suddenly changing anyone’s already set-in-stone opinions on who’s to blame here. Instead, it does give him an opportunity to look so fucking clueless and unhinged that even more people go, ” Damn, that summbich is unhinged

    In other words, release the Krack-Head.

  11. 11
    Hungry Joe says:

    @The Moar You Know: A State of Emergency could be (would be) blocked by the House. The Senate then has 15 days to either approve it or spike it with a simple majority. I suspect they’d approve it (though Susan Collins would express concern before voting her approval), thus eviscerating their own power and handing near-dictatorial control to Trump: If the border is an “Emergency,” what about Muslims already in this country? What about the fake news spewed out by the mainstream media? What about disrespecting the President? What about kneeling football players? Whole lotta potential Emergencies out there.

  12. 12
    BC in Illinois says:

    From Rep Ted Lieu:

    Ted Lieu
    ‏. . . .
    Ted Lieu Retweeted Donald J. Trump
    Dear @realdonaldtrump: I look forward to you addressing the following:

    -Violent crime is down in the US
    -Property crime is down
    -Immigrants commit less crime
    -Border crossings are down

    These are good facts. Take credit for it.


  13. 13
    MattF says:

    One specific lie about terrorists at the southern border is that there were 4000 terrorists caught at the border. The catch is that the 4000 were caught at airports. The number caught at the southern border was… zero.

  14. 14
    Sab says:

    Every jackal with a Republican senator should call their office to complain about the government shutdown, and tell them you don’t think both sides are to blame.

    I also bitched about going into tax season with a skeleton staff at the IRS. Next time I will bitch about my medicare enrollment being held up (the card should have come by now and it hasn’t.)

  15. 15
    sukabi says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: of course they won’t but that shouldn’t stop dems from flooding social media with their rebuttal / response.

  16. 16
    Gravenstone says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Can’t you just imagine the fireworks if it were Speaker Pelosi (just to stay consistent with allowing Boehner the pulpit) to offer a rebuttal. Trump would lose his fucking mind at being publicly called out by her.

  17. 17
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    I don’t know about you guys but I don’t have a good feeling about this “Address the Nation on the Humanitarian and National Security crisis on our Southern Border”.

    Maybe it’s just my 2 year case of GERD but my stomach turned when I saw that announcement. It feels like an ambush is getting ready to happen. One no one is really prepared for. He’s being cheered and goaded on by Miller and a bunch of other feckless, faceless Bannonites on this. Who the hell knows what they’ve flattered him into thinking he can do?

    And Power Princess he is he sure does love to have an audience when he thinks he’s winning.

  18. 18
    Gravenstone says:

    @MattF: 4000 over what time frame? And how many were then tried and actually found guilty of some terrorism related charge? Guessing that latter number rapidly approaches zero.

  19. 19
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Punchy: On the one hand, the ceremony and the office itself lends trump a bit of stature, OTOH, that same formality diminishes him as he squints at the teleprompter and reads like a third grader called on to read aloud. OTthirdH, I’m hearing a lot of government workers saying “they” need to just settle this. Most people don’t follow politics closely, and they’re susceptible to Villager pablum about “both sides/partisan bickering”

    Can we place bets on whether he does one of his patented “the current imitation crisis… immigration crisis… a crisis of imitating immigrants….”

    ETA: and if anyone here is facebook “friends” with Mueller, tomorrow afternoon would be a real good time to indict Fredo, or Junior, or both

  20. 20
    germy says:

    Bill Bailey, performing at the London Palladium, entertained the audience by playing major-key songs in a minor key, and vice versa. “Now some of the great national anthems are written in the major key,” he said. “In fact most national anthems are in the major key — celebratory, uplifting. I like to experiment with them and play them in a different key and the one I’m thinking of is the Star Spangled Banner — the American national anthem, which i think — appropriately now — should be played in the minor key it. It takes on a totally different dynamic. Actually, it sounds a bit Russian.”

  21. 21
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    Trump is a master of the Gish gallop.

  22. 22
    Jeffro says:

    This should be the entirety of Dem messaging leading up to, through, and after the “address”: Trumpov lies, he lies to spread fear and divide our country, he lies because he has absolutely no sense of the truth or how to govern, and oh did I mention he lies?

    And they can add “he’s lying more and more often now that there is a Constitutional check on his incompetence and cruelty – this ‘border security crisis’ only started when the Democratic Party took the House in overwhelming numbers last November” if they really want to twist the knife.

    OT but this is a kind of funny headline mixed with yet another just-missing-the-obvious by Jennifer Rubin: The Right Need Not Be Brain-Dead (yes, really, that’s the headline)

    J-Rubs, come on over to the center-center party, you’ll like it, we promise! But alas, she would rather flack her beloved fledgling Niskanen Center (“compassionate libertarianism”???) than join up with the dirty hippies….

    [the NC’s veep for policy] suggests a new political foundation based on devotion to democratic institutions, to “the public interest, or the common weal — the values that we share across ethnic, regional, sectarian, and class lines and that require collective action for their advancement,” to constructive governance (“shrinking government just to make it smaller is not the goal, [but] hostility toward corruption and wastefulness does push toward making government simpler and more transparent”) and to resisting concentrations of power and wealth (“The basic intuition here is that freedom requires a level of personal independence among the citizenry, and that in turn requires a broad middle class and limited extremes of wealth and poverty. In the republican view, excessive imbalances of power and status undermine government in the public interest because both the rules themselves and their administration will end up slanted in favor of the powerful.”).

    I wouldn’t have to edit a single word out of those principles to slap it into the 2020 Dem platform. ‘Collective action’? ‘A broad middle class and limited extremes of wealth and poverty’? Talk about reinventing the wheel!

  23. 23
    NotMax says:


    IIRC it took 3½ months for the Medicare card to arrive when I first applied years ago, and that wasn’t during a shutdown.

  24. 24
    Elizabelle says:

    Tomorrow night I am going to a free screening of the Notorious RBG documentary, in celebration of Virginia’s push for the ERA. So, I will not be watching Trump. You will have to tell me what he said.

  25. 25
    germy says:

    Eric Columbus

    Just speculating: Trump might
    — announce national emergency
    — thus unlocking statutes that some argue allow some wall-building
    — thereby kicking fight to courts
    — allowing him to reopen government while saving face
    — and if he later loses in court he’ll have a new scapegoat.

  26. 26
    kindness says:

    A good network would tell Trump to go pound sand. I guess we have no good networks.

  27. 27
    Sab says:

    @NotMax: They told me it should take 3 weeks.

    ETA this will cost me $1000 additional bucks per month to keep on with Obamacare premiums.

  28. 28

    Open thread so a question for jackals who know about boats. A character in my current draft has sailed a boat by himself around the edge of a sea like the Mediterranean. This is traditional fantasy, so pre-industrial. What would you call such a boat? A dinghy? A ketch? A sloop? Something else?

  29. 29
    lamh36 says:

    26s26 seconds ago
    Only six immigrants in the terrorism database were stopped by CBP at the southern border in first half of 2018, NBC News reports.

    Sarah Sanders said the number was 4,000 in fiscal year 2018.

  30. 30
    Uncle Ebeneezer says:

    Jay Rosen had a great thread on a better way to cover politics (elections). Of course our media has steadfastly ignored it…:

  31. 31
    Yarrow says:

    According to Trump’s latest tweet, the networks have agreed to give him airtime tomorrow as requested

    That tweet doesn’t say that. It just says he’s addressing the nation at 9 p.m. Maybe the cable networks will cover it but have the broadcast networks agreed? I haven’t seen that yet.

  32. 32
    Chris says:

    Agree with the others saying any networks carrying this live should be prepared to realtime fact checking this lying moron as well as allowing the Democrats a rebuttal immediately afterward. I will absolutely refuse to watch this bullshit and think he is definitely going to declare a “national emergency” as it’s his only way to try and save face in this debacle. Also wouldn’t be surprised to see him deploy the emergency text notification.

  33. 33
    The Moar You Know says:

    Open thread so a question for jackals who know about boats. A character in my current draft has sailed a boat by himself around the edge of a sea like the Mediterranean. This is traditional fantasy, so pre-industrial. What would you call such a boat? A dinghy? A ketch? A sloop? Something else?

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: You could, in theory, sail pretty much anything from a rowboat to a small supertanker around such a sea. So the info I’d need is:

    era – how long ago are we talking about?
    nationality/country of origin of said boat or sailor.
    Sails? Rowed? Engine?

    If you really want to make said character SUFFER make said character do it in a coracle. Like a kayak but round. Steering is, put mildly, a hellish chore.

    ETA: got it, no engine. Sails or oars?

    ETA2: does character have associates or is this solo?

  34. 34
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Steve in the ATL: You sure do get to travel to a lot of shithole states

  35. 35
    jl says:

    If the news organizations blow responsible coverage, everyone should get their phone numbers, email addresses, and paper mail address and word processors ready to very rapid response. Except for Fox News, we know they will not cover it irresponsibly.

    Maybe BJ blog and others could post contact information so people can give feedback to news media coverage quickly?

    I think every story on Trump Wall should start with the following statement “Trump Wall started as a campaign stunt that even Trump thought was stupid, but he made it a policy because it got big cheers. It is obvious he hasn’t given Wall a moment of thought beyond that ever since. We had a deal on Wall, but lunatic racist pundits intimidated Trump into breaking the deal he made. So the whole issue is fraud, but we have to cover it because this miserable liar become president now and he can wreck up the place if we don’t give in to him on his infantile fraudulent schemes. There is no boarder crisis.”

  36. 36
    psycholinguist says:

    @germy: thanks, that was awesome!

  37. 37
    jimmiraybob says:

    A TV exec is tweeting that they are damned if they do broadcast the liar and damned if they don’t. Sounds like there’s no unavoidable pain so they may as well mitigate by not broadcasting the unchecked lies. Just video tape his propaganda speech and play back whatever’s actually newsworthy. For instance, if he says “I am declaring a national emergency to build my big beautiful wall via the military version of eminent domain,” that would be newsworthy. Any blather on the front- or back-end would in all likelihood (70-100%) be counterfactual and could be released bit at a time along with fact check refutation.

    If he announces that, “I am a big dumb ignoramus that is well beyond my capacity to function and am therefore retiring to an unnamed non-extradition nation,” then put that on a continuous loop and start checking to see where the treasury has been wiring the money.

    Anything more than this is just encouraging treason and plunder.

  38. 38

    @The Moar You Know: It’s a fantasy novel, so quasi-medieval and from a country I made up. Sail(s) with oars to maneuver closer to shore. The 17-year-old character loves the boat so he didn’t suffer.

    I’ve seen coracles. It would be like traveling in one of those saucers we used to slide down hills in the snow.

    Saw the ETA: He sailed that trip alone, but we see him sailing with his cousin too, the main character on the tiller and his cousin balancing on the rail and holding a line.

  39. 39
    jl says:

    @jimmiraybob: That is BS. They snubbed Obama several times. What this is, is creeping fascism.

  40. 40
    Marcopolo says:

    @MattF: So you really need to be precise when debunking this claim. Yes, the “4000” folks we’re apprehended at airports rather that the southern border but the vast majority were not terrorists. They were individuals coming into the US from countries on the terror watch list & were only stopped because the met some arbitrary definition of “terror-related individual” which you automatically are if you originate in one of those places. We will probably never see the actual # of those 4000 who were real “terrorists” but I’d bet it is closer to 40 than 100 and no where near 4K.

  41. 41
    Elizabelle says:

    WaPost breaking news:

    White House rules IRS can issue tax refunds during shutdown, aims to bring back agency employees

    …. The decision reverses past IRS policy, which had previously prohibited tax refunds from being paid while much of the agency’s staff was sent home during a shutdown.

    But the White House’s Office of Management and Budget determined on Monday that paying tax refunds was a permissible practice and would be allowed to proceed, according to a senior OMB official.

    Final decisions were still being worked out, including how many people will be brought back to work at the IRS and when the tax filing season will begin.

    Millions of Americans file income tax returns by April 15 for income they earned the previous year, and if they overpaid their taxes then the government issues them a refund. These refunds can often be around $2,000 or $3,000.

    Paying these tax refunds could help the White House avoid an enormous political and economic mess next month.

  42. 42
    Immanentize says:

    Networks to broadcast Trump’s lies about the border tomorrow night

    Don’t you mean Stephen Miller’s?

    Did a young Hispanic guy get to go to the junior high dance with the girl Stevie liked, but never said anything to?

  43. 43
    oatler. says:

    Crooks and Liars site is refuting this headline. Either way Chuck Todd is nursin’ a chubby.

  44. 44
    A Ghost To Most says:

    If Nancy doesn’t demand equal time, she’s not the SMASH! I think she is.

  45. 45
    Immanentize says:

    @Marcopolo: My guess is closer to 4. And those would be in custody.

  46. 46
    The Moar You Know says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I gotta go with “dinghy” here, then. Small, sails and oars, one man project.

  47. 47
    Immanentize says:

    @A Ghost To Most: She might demand the time and let someone else make the pitch, like Ted Lieu?

  48. 48
    ruemara says:

    @jl: That’s what I recall. They acted like he had no right to be on their airways.

  49. 49
    Fair Economist says:

    @Marcopolo: Yeah, my elderly mother was on the terrorist watch list under W. We have no idea why. She leans Dem, but she isn’t very political and the only kind of bomb she’d ever use is a bath bomb.

  50. 50
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @oatler.: I think Nicole Wallace said only CNN has confirmed that they’ll carry it.

    trump aside, I never understood why the broadcast networks don’t have some kind of rotation system on these addresses. It always seemed silly to me to have four simultaneous broadcasts of something the vast majority of Americans in the majority of cases aren’t going to pay any attention to.

  51. 51
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Immanentize: Your proposal is acceptable.

    Ted would be awesome.

    ETA tag team with Rashida Tlaib?

  52. 52
    jl says:

    @Elizabelle: ‘premissable’ or ‘essential’. I guess Trumpsters think its fine if they can arbitrarily open up parts of the government needed to make their bogus shutdown over a bogus fraudulent issue go down more smoothly, and Trump will eventually get Wall $. But they’ll veto any legislative attempts to control a lawless executive.

    McConnell is just fine with it. McConnell ought to buy Trump a horse and get a fancy place for it on the Senate floor. Throw a little deferential ceremony for the horse every day.

  53. 53
  54. 54

    @germy: I didn’t even watch the clip but now I’ve got the minor-key Star Spangled Banner stuck in my head. It’s really cool and kinda scary.

  55. 55
    trollhattan says:


    You will have to tell me what he said.

    How about we not ruin an otherwise pleasant evening for you?

    Interesting to contemplate having a president* who in his entire life has probably not improved the life of one other human being. Not even accidentally.

  56. 56

    @The Moar You Know: Thank you. Dinghy was my best guess from internet research but I am deeply ignorant on this topic.

  57. 57
    Vhh says:

    @Chris: I actually hope he does declare an emergency. The govt will open, there will be years of lawsuits on constitutional crises and land seizures for the wall (which will be fought tooth and nail by Trumper Ranchers in Texas and Arizona–which may turn blue as a result. Bottom line: a farce like Whip Inflation Now buttons, with direct damage to Trumpers.

  58. 58
    jimmiraybob says:


    What this is, is creeping fascism.


  59. 59
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Trump is going to lie about millions of terrorists streaming through the Southern border and then announce that he’s going to use his emergency powers to use tax payer money to fund a see through border wall made entirely of (Russian) steel. Democrats should be prepared for the worse and begin impeachment proceedings in the House. I assume Trump’s target for this charade is his dwindling deplorable support base because most Americans know that every word that comes out of his mouth is a lie. Won’t be watching.

  60. 60
    smedley the uncertain says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I would suggest a sloop. It is easier to single hand than a multi-masted Ketch. I single hand a 26 footer and until recently a 30 footer. I have led all the running rigging aft to the cockpit to minimize the time spent on the fore deck.

  61. 61
    Martin says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’d probably go with dory or dinghy. Ketches tend to be a bit bigger with two masts. Sloops have one mast, but with fore and aft rig are also bigger.

    The ‘by himself’ suggests a smaller, single mast, likely single sail boat.

  62. 62
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @A Ghost To Most: I just—no shit—turned off the highway when I got to the bait shop.

  63. 63
    Elizabelle says:

    From the WaPost:

    … As such, the White House’s request for airtime is more problematic than other kinds of presidential addresses, such as a response to a national defense emergency, an economic crisis or the annual State of the Union speech. The networks also have to balance their obligation to inform viewers about current affairs versus their desire not to preempt lucrative prime-time entertainment programs for the speech.

    In fact, the broadcast networks — ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC — didn’t show President Barack Obama’s immigration speech in November 2014, when he outlined changes in immigration policy. That speech was delivered during a “sweeps” month, in which ratings for prime-time programs are used to set future ad prices.

    As of 3 p.m. Eastern time Monday, only the cable networks CNN, Fox News and Fox Business Network had confirmed that they would carry Trump’s speech. The major broadcast networks said they were considering the request or remained silent when asked for comment.

    While the broadcast networks typically carry presidential addresses, there is no requirement or regulation compelling them to do so. “This isn’t state television,” in which authorities control the airwaves, said Andrew Jay Schwartzman, a veteran communications attorney at the Georgetown University Law Center.

    Nor are the networks’ hundreds of affiliated local stations required to air programs distributed by their network partners. On the other hand, they can choose to air a presidential speech even if their affiliated network isn’t airing it.

    A spokesman for the National Association of Broadcasters, which represents local stations, said “traditionally and typically” networks and stations will carry a presidential address “since we are committed to our role as first informers.”

    I call bullshit on the NAB for saying that. No word if the spokesman is a Huckabee.

    ETA: linky for the WaPost story. Warning, it’s got video footage of Trump embedded.

  64. 64
    Immanentize says:

    Ha! I just got a call from the Massachusetts Democratic Committee asking for contributions. I asked if they supported state candidates — and they were eager to tell me they go from local to governor! Then I asked if the gave funds to congressional candidates, and they said they did! I told them that I cannot abide Seth Moulton and I am working hard to make sure he does not get one frickin’ dime from me. The woman on the phone acted like this may have been part of a previous conversation with others — and I hope it was.

  65. 65
    joel hanes says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    What would you call such a boat? A dinghy? A ketch? A sloop? Something else?

    The terms are not comparable.
    The first has to do with size, weight, and use; the other two are names for specific sail-mast configurations. (“rigs”).

    If it ‘s relatively small (less than 25 feet or so) and lightweight, lacks a fixed keel, and especially if it’s dry-sailed (kept on a lift or aboard a larger vessel when not in use) it’s a dinghy.

    A sloop rig has one mast, and carries two sails: one staysail (“the jib”) forward of the mast, and a mainsail.
    Most dinghys are sloop rigged, as are most sailboats of all hull configurations under 40 feet overall length,
    including keelboats and most centerboard boats too large to be called dinghies.

    A ketch rig has two masts, and the forward mast is taller, and the after mast is forward of the rudder post.
    They’re rare in boats under 28 feet or so, and usually found only on keelboats.
    (Two other two-mast rigs: in a yawl rig, the after mast is again the shorter, but the mast steps behind the rudder post, so further aft than in a ketch rig. In a schooner rig, the after mast is as tall or taller than the forward mast; schooner rigs are not usually found on boats under 48 feet)

    So: the boat in question could possibly be a dinghy, but most likely it’s a keelboat — with a heavy fixed keep to keep it upright.
    Odds are that it is sloop-rigged, but if it’s over 35 feet or so, it might be a ketch or yawl.

  66. 66
    dimmsdale says:

    there was an absolutely essential thread on the Twits today from Jay Rosen of NYU, in which he explained why he expects the media’s coverage of 2020 to be a disaster, and then explains why. He’s been so prescient, so keen and so right, so much of the time, that when he says the following, it’s both depressing and sobering: “Alongside the production of news and analysis, journalists in the major media are constantly engaged in another manufacture: the production of their own innocence. They feel they have to continuously prove they are being even-handed and not on anyone’s side.” This phony construction, unfortunately, mitigates against TRUE even-handedness, when according the bad-faith side unwarranted respect is morally, logically, and journalistically wrong. Anyhow, here’s the link to the whole thread:

    Also, a link to an article from a year ago, in which a former intelligence agent states that any foreign intelligence outfit who wants to influence Donald Trump would do well to start infiltrating the news infrastructure at Fox and Sinclair. (especially disturbing as it emerges that Fox News is in effect dictating our foreign and domestic policy, via Trump). Link

    (hope the links come thru)

  67. 67
    Immanentize says:


    first informers

    What kind of Orwellian double-speak is that? Trying to ride the first responder’s hagiographic gravy train?

  68. 68
    Amir Khalid says:

    I am annoyed. I know Liverpool’s aim is the league title, but was it necessary to rest all the best defenders against Wolves for the FA Cup and get knocked out? The Academy kids did well, but this team looked like its worst days from last season.

  69. 69
    jl says:

    We need to quit calling it Wall, or the Wall, or the Beautiful Steel Slat Barrier, or Trump Bead Curtain.
    The accurate description is Wall Money.
    It’s just money Trump wants publicly allocated in the budget for a PR win, and a slush fund to play around with as he sees fit.

    The Wall is a fraud. Kelly even admitted that real plans were never discussed for Wall, because everyone in Trump WH knew it was an idiotic idea, and a one hundred percent fraud. It started as a campaign rally stunt that even Trump thought was dumb and wouldn’t work. Wall plans never evolved past that stage because Wall is an idiot idea that could not evolve past that stage.

    So, call it Wall Money from now on. or Wall Dollars. or Wall$, or $Wall$.
    The branding, with money in the name is great. Trump might even pick it up and start using it.

  70. 70

    Here’s what the networks are NOT covering –

  71. 71
    jl says:

    And we should start calling Trump a new name: Daddy Wall Bucks.

  72. 72
    Elizabelle says:

    @Immanentize: Yes. I am very curious about the NAB.

    @dimmsdale: the Rosen thread probably deserves its own thread later.

  73. 73
    Martin says:

    @smedley the uncertain: I guess it depends on the utility of the craft. If I’m just trying to get from point A to B, do I want a small, easy to use boat, or a somewhat larger more complex, but faster boat suggestive of a more experience sailor? If I’m fishing, do I need space for my gear and my catch? But this comment:

    Sail(s) with oars to maneuver closer to shore. The 17-year-old character loves the boat so he didn’t suffer.

    makes me think not a sloop. Color me impressed if you’re rowing your 30-footer.

  74. 74
    MattF says:

    @Marcopolo: Not surprised to hear that there’s additional bullshit in the claim. I’ll admit I was being careless. In any case, I’ll bet we’ll hear about 4000 terrorists tomorrow evening.

  75. 75
    jl says:

    Or $WallDaddy$. That would give it a hep Hip Hop feel.

    For those that don’t get the Hip Hop vibe, it also works as a generic cheapo home improvement gimmick, say for hanging pix on the wall. So, will appeal to everyone from the Woke Resistance, to elderly Fox News viewers who will start looking for infomercials for $WallDaddy$ to help them spruce up their living rooms.

  76. 76
    joel hanes says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It’s a fantasy novel, so quasi-medieval and from a country I made up. Sail(s) with oars to maneuver closer to shore.

    Ah. Make it under 25 feet in length, and without a keel (so it can be drawn up on shore), and it’s a dinghy hull.

    Give it a single sail on a mast stepped way forward, and it’s catboat-rigged, ideal for being sailed by a single person.

    The famous Winslow Homer painting “Breezing up” depicts a catboat dinghy in a fresh breeze.

    But yours will want to be an open boat, without decks, because your protagonist wants to row it.

  77. 77
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I would call it “a one masted boat” in your story, name the boat (i.e. WindSir), then refer to the name afterwards because the boat pedants will always be up your ass if you get one detail wrong.

  78. 78
    opiejeanne says:

    How big of a boat? A coracle is a small round boat.

  79. 79
    WaterGirl says:

    @Elizabelle: Tomorrow seems to be the first day that all the network and cable shows are coming back after their fall finales and hiatus for the holidays. From that perspective, today would have been a better choice.

    Be sure and set your DVRs to account for timing changes of regular shows.

  80. 80
    karensky says:

    @Punchy: I am just scared about an announcement of a “National Emergency” and martial law.

  81. 81
    Anonymous At Work says:

    Should have given him the time tonight. Either preempt the BCS Championship Game’s broadcast or make him compete.

  82. 82
    dimmsdale says:

    @Elizabelle: Agree completely. I have twitted a number of times that if our democracy dies, Jake Tapper will have helped kill it; and I’m mindful also of how appropriate it would be to sit our media overlords down and have Jon Stewart tell them what he told Tucker and Paul what-was-his name, years ago, “You’re hurting America!!” I’m also mindful of the adrenalizing effect Fox News has, and I’m familiar enough with the vocabulary of substance addiction to see Fox News as something similar. Murdoch has indeed created a generation of rage-and-adrenalin junkies. But yeah, a separate thread would be good. I just wish it were possible to reach the producers, news editors, assignment editors, and rewrite editors who need a series of dope-slaps to put their journalistic priorities right.

  83. 83
    MazeDancer says:

    NBC has reported that 6 terrorists were apprehended at the Southern Border.

    6. Grand total.

    Somewhat less than 4 or 5 thousand.

  84. 84
    jimmiraybob says:


    Daddy Wallbucks?

  85. 85
    WaterGirl says:

    @Immanentize: Boy, isn’t that good advice!

    Case in point: the battle for whether you call the gun thing a magazine or whatever the hell the other name is. (I could care less, so please let’s not actually have that battle!)

  86. 86
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Sounds as if you’re in a ketch-22 situation.

    (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

    Anyway, as it is a fantasy, a mythical country and a one-man boat why not a dhow?

  87. 87

    @joel hanes: @Martin: @smedley the uncertain: I knew there’d be jackals who’d be able to educate me. Or try to. This is all very helpful. Thank you.

  88. 88
    smedley the uncertain says:

    @Martin: Ref the medevial time frame, a Lateen rigged boat was often used for commerce and transport and came in all sizes. It is single masted with a single fore and aft rigged sail. Larger commercial boats might have a second mast. They can still be seen today around the African Mediterranean ports.

  89. 89

    @NotMax: I think I’ll go with dinghy!

  90. 90
    VOR says:

    Apparently Trump thinks switching from a concrete wall to steel is a significant concession. As if the composition of the wall was a significant factor in the opposition to wasting $25B or more.

  91. 91
    karensky says:

    @Immanentize: For Trump, Fox News is the first and only informer.

  92. 92
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @MazeDancer: I suspect even that’s an overstatement. six people with names on a watch list, per @lamh36: . Al Gore and Ted Kennedy were on that list at one point, IIRC.

  93. 93

    @Immanentize: This is true. But that happens anyway. I just thank them for their input and move on.

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    jl says:

    If Trump does declare a national emergency, then going by his ravings about using eminent domain, he’ll have no excuse not to start proceedings to claim land near the boarder for his idiot $Wall$. That will displease a lot of wealthy GOP landowners in, for example, TX and AZ. That will be fun.

    Or will be a new chapter in the abject and patent fraud of $Wall$ that the media is not reporting in enough depth.
    Anyway, we’ll see after $WallDaddy$’s speech.

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    Plato says:

    The thug’s daily dose of lies dies only when he dies. Until then, nothing will change.

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    Martin says:

    @joel hanes: A lot of small dinghys are cats rather than sloops. (one sail vs 2)

    And multi-mast boats are relatively modern. They certainly weren’t small in ancient times. And single pilot boats typically only had one sail. They lacked the modern rigging and even rudder designs that we rely on to make these boats more manageable. These are ‘firm hand on the tiller’ vessels, I would think. Slow, but simple and reliable.

    Skiff might be a better term yet – rowed and sailed, and assumed to be ocean going.

  97. 97
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Or just conjure up a name for a type of boat the mythical country is known for building.

  98. 98
    opiejeanne says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I see coracles were addressed before I got here.

    I have a suggestion: Why not make up a name for the type of boat you describe your character using, instead of using any of our modern conventional names for various boat types?

  99. 99

    @NotMax: Making up names is really hard.

    Rowling was a genius at it.

  100. 100
    opiejeanne says:

    @NotMax: I see you got there first.

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    smedley the uncertain says:

    @Martin: Back in the day I…. Nah, just rowed the inflatable. Reread the scenario and offered some other thoughts. mentioned the sloops only to point out they can be single handed., A dinghy is a bit wee for navigating in the sea and then suggested a lateen rig as it was prevalent in the Med back in Medieval times. Fair winds and following seas.

  102. 102
    Martin says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: The takeaway is that sailing is replete with unique terminology that nobody outside of the community know. That should give you considerable creative license to pick whatever sounds good, as most of your audience will paint a mental picture that probably doesn’t fit the definition of the term, but conveys the needed information.

    Reminds me that I haven’t gone sailing in some time, and should remedy that.

  103. 103
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’ve really enjoyed it, even though I’ll never keep all the distinctions straight. I could count on my fingers the number of times I’ve actually been on the ocean, but early sea travel fascinates me for some reason.

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    MazeDancer says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yes, just names on a list. That’s it.

  105. 105

    @smedley the uncertain: @Martin: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: BJ is full of people with hidden expertise. It’s ceased to surprise me, but it hasn’t ceased to impress.

  106. 106
    Marcopolo says:

    Just posting this a second (and final) time for BJers who want to get in on the fun:

    Daily Kos Democratic Straw Poll, inaugural edition!

    This is the first D Prez Straw Poll on DKos for the 2020 cycle. Since I posted the link this morning when there were about 4500 total votes; the new total is around 17,500 votes cast. And the Wilmerites have come out. He was at 4% then is now at 10%. Warren has gone from 24% to 22%. Beto has held steady @ 16%. Harris has dropped from 20% to 15%. Biden went from 10% to 13%. Those are the notable numbers. The poll should but does not include Kobuchar or Brown (or anyone else other than Booker, Gillibrand, or Castro).

    Anyways, go, vote, and we can all laugh at the results this time next year.

  107. 107
    Martin says:

    @smedley the uncertain: The lateen rig was right on. Super common. In terms of navigating the sea, the vast majority of seafaring ships back then never left sight of land. Certainly true of single piloted boats.

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    Ohio Mom says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Doesn’t Chicago have a maritime museum? It’s probably focused on Chicago and the Great Lakes, but maybe there is a curator there who happens to know about medieval boats and ships and loves boring people with the details.

  109. 109

    @Ohio Mom: I just googled that and you’re right, it does. Cool.

  110. 110
    joel hanes says:


    Skiff might be a better term

    Martin’s got it. “skiff” is the word you’re looking for.

    And a lateen rig is low-tech, low-tip, fast off the wind, and historically appropriate.
    Here’s a video of lateen-rigged skiffs :

  111. 111
    Jay says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Check out WoodenBoat for Medieval Mediteranian small fishing craft, and his cousin would never be “hiking out” as moveable ballast.

    Small craft of the day were rarely decked in any form that would allow for burying the rails, with out suddenly swamping and sinking. Stones were used for ballast, ( rather than lead or iron in the keel) and heeling too far or pitching could cause the ballast to shift, with again, nasty results.

    Small craft were sailed conservatively by skilled sailors, because there was little “self rescue”, no Coast Guard, no lifejackets.

    The type of hull and sail rig would have been highly regional, across a narrow range of specialized types.

    Pick a “region” your sailor is from, search WoodenBoat, and check out the online portions of the regional Maritime Museums and Historic Sailing Events.

  112. 112
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Making them up isn’t hard.


    Settling on one that satisfies is the hard part.


  113. 113
    trollhattan says:

    Add a port-a-potty and beehive and you’ll have the Sloop John Bee.

  114. 114
    joel hanes says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    If you’re doing research, and want to get the terminology right to give some versimilitude,
    I can recommend Royce’s classic _Sailing_Illustrated_.
    I think it’s out of print, but your library may have a copy, or be able to order one.

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

  116. 116
    NotMax says:


    “Reports are that the dhow Jones sank like a stone today.”


  117. 117

    @Jay: @NotMax: @trollhattan: @joel hanes: Holy cow. Once you guys get started, you just pick up steam. Or in this case, wind.

  118. 118
    Martin says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Well, you’re from Iowa. I’ve only once ever lived more than 5 miles from the ocean. I don’t consider myself a sailor, but learning to sail a boat was a bit like learning to drive the tractor – something you could do before you turned 16 (or 14). I learned in a home-made 6′ single sail. I loved that boat. From when I was 11 or so I could carry it by myself down to the water and set off with room for just me, my lunch, and a book. Pretty sure I read all of LOTR in that boat. It was pretty fun in Oyster Bay, and pretty exciting in the ocean (not so easy to read there).

    One of the great things about people that own sailboats is they love to have an excuse to go out, particularly if they have people willing to work. So even if you don’t own a boat, it’s just a matter of finding someone who does and they’ll teach you.

  119. 119

    @Martin: I’m actually from Michigan. But I grew up in Detroit, and no one I knew owned any kind of boat.

  120. 120
    jl says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: My snarky suggestion is to start from ‘leaky crate’, and then base the name on a translation into some language. In Icelandic, you get leka kassi (via Google translate). So, Lekassi!

  121. 121
    trollhattan says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    Per my family, I’m known for wind. I disagree, natch.

  122. 122
  123. 123
  124. 124
    Jay says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Btw, the boat, will have a specific regional name, based on hull shape, size, function an rigging.

    Dinghy, is a modern name, origionally for a small rowboat that could be used as a tender for a larger sail boat, towed behind, stored on deck or slung from davits.

    Sloop is a single masted modern sailing rig.

    Skiff is a modern hard chined flat bottomed boat.

    Check out small Greek sailing craft. They have remained highly traditional, because they do what they need to do, and slight variations on their hull shape and rigging are common to the eastern and southern Med, from 800BC to modern days.

  125. 125
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Friend who likes to run role playing games used to ask me to come up with lists of names for NPCs. Toughest list to put together was for a game set in the Star Trek universe. Had to research (a lot) what there was in canon about multiple alien races, their culture and any extant naming conventions.

  126. 126
    Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!) says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    What ever you choose make it Lateen sail I always enjoyed that word and it is nice looking as well as medieval!

  127. 127
    Chloe says:

    Does anyone remember Pop-Up Video? Let’s revive the concept except that instead of music trivia, the bubbles contain plainly worded corrections of the President’s lies.

  128. 128
    cain says:

    So happy Jeff Merkeley is out there. That’s my guy, folks – from the great state of Oregon!

  129. 129
    J R in WV says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    The trading fleet of Venice, in the 1500s had galleys with large crews, and “round boats” with sails and smaller crews. If it is done single handed, more like a ketch, but those were invented later than the 1500s, considerably later.

  130. 130
    J R in WV says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Saw the ETA: He sailed that trip alone, but we see him sailing with his cousin too, the main character on the tiller and his cousin balancing on the rail and holding a line.

    Lines are standing, as in don’t move. Sheets are ropes that are pulled on to move things around. IIRC. Might want to check in with the guy who races sailboats in PUget Sound, I forget his name… someone will know who I mean. I’m sure he’s the most reliable person here for what you need to know. It’s quite complex, tho.

  131. 131
    MCA1 says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That “TV Exec” either is clueless beyond belief or is full of it. “Without rebuttal?” Who, if not the f’ing networks, is in charge of whether or not a “fact-free screed” is rebutted?

    This sort of learned helplessness is killing us. Just frame the thing correctly. Put it on a 15 minute delay, hire Daniel Dale for the night, introduce him to the audience, and let him interject with fact checking. Schedule a pre-rebuttal so someone can properly set the table for the Gish Gallop we’re about to be served. Let Obama speak afterwards. Whatever. There are plenty of ways to ensure the lying doesn’t go unanswered.

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