Soft Target Open Thread: STEEL SLAT BARRIER







113 replies
  1. 1
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Steel slat wall broken thru in 5…4….3… Already thru.

  2. 2
    aarrgghh says:

    a rare moment of clarity, via freeperville, circa 2013:

    One problem with trying blame a shutdown on Dems is that Dems have archives of tapes of GOP members saying that they want the GOP to shutdown the government, and ya got freepers here posting the same themes.
    Dems tend not to go on record saying stuff like that.

    (by sickoflibs)

  3. 3
    Kent says:

    If the Dems really wanted to troll Trump they would agree to “Wall” with a funding mechanism attached. Like repeal of the carried interest loophole.

    I’m sure there are hundreds of loopholes out there that benefit only the extremely wealthy Republican types that could be repealed to pay for the wall. Perhaps some of the real estate scam loopholes that the Trumps take advantage of. Or something to do with the oil industry. The Dem messaging would be awesome. We are just doing the responsible thing and building a wall without adding to the deficit.

  4. 4
    Yutsano says:

    @aarrgghh: Jaysys is FreeRepublc completely unreadable on mobile. I think my phone was saving my brain from a huge mistake.

  5. 5
    trollhattan says:

    I could see the Night King plucking those slats off and skewering the living from great distances.

    Adam Schiff has thoughts.

    Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA), the incoming chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, told NBC News that Democrats will subpoena special counsel Robert Mueller’s report if President Trump tries to invoke executive privilege to keep it secret.

    Said Schiff: “I’m prepared to make sure we do everything possible so that the public has the advantage of as much of the information as it can.”

  6. 6
    Cowboy Diva says:

    How much is it to ship an oxyacetylene torch to Mexico? Asking for a friend.

  7. 7
    James E Powell says:

    What are the chances that this shutdown showdown ends before this congress ends on January 3rd 2019?

  8. 8
    Lady raxterinok says:

    Why not investigate how drug lords in SoAmerica protect their home compounds? I’ve read (in thrillers) that their system is quite effective.

    Trump might feel an affinity for fellow autocrats’ systems. Esp since they don’t tolerate any opposition. And he hasn’t (yet!) figured out how to get to that level of control himself.

  9. 9
    aarrgghh says:

    @yutsano:

    that’s cause the site was designed on a kaypro ii for pledge drives and nothing else.

  10. 10
    MattF says:

    Note:
    1) The Twitter says that a good chunk of the Steel-Slat-Wall’s cost is due to steel tariffs imposed by Trump.
    2) Every time the Fed raises rates, payments on Trump’s debts go up. So, Trump wanting to fire the Fed chair for raising rates sure looks like one of those ‘conflict of interest’ things.

    Good thing the Stable Genius figures all this out beforehand.

  11. 11

    @James E Powell:

    What are the chances that this shutdown showdown ends before this congress ends on January 3rd 2019?

    Very low.

  12. 12
    Mnemosyne says:

    a senior administration official told reporters they still believe Mexico will pay (Mexico has said it will not) but must first press ahead in building the wall and then figure out Mexico payment.

    I suspect that this “senior administration official” is Trump himself, because this is exactly how the guy operated throughout his career as a developer — build giant unwieldy projects, declare bankruptcy, and stick someone else with the bill. He sees no reason why it won’t work again since it always worked for him before.

  13. 13
    Lapassionara says:

    Such a great negotiator! Decides to issue an ultimatum about two weeks before Dems take control of the house and as an added bonus, gets to stay in DC over Christmas. So much winning. Or did he mean whining? Hard to keep track.

  14. 14
    scav says:

    Well, once he’s safely behind bars, he’ll stare at the decor and tweet “Victory!”

  15. 15
    CliosFanBoy says:

    anybody else notice that the close up does NOT resemble the version it is supposedly showing? The full view shows pointed tops that look like the top of a fleur-d-lis and the “close up” version looks like the top of the Washington Monument.

  16. 16
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @aarrgghh: does Freak Republic still look like it was designed circa 1996??

  17. 17
    Bess says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: So what’s the technology of choice? Battery powered sawzall? $20 hydraulic car jack?

  18. 18
    Yutsano says:

    @Roger Moore: I thought Ryan dismissed the House. So there’s no one on the other side to make a deal anyway.

  19. 19
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Cowboy Diva: Not necessary. We know people in this administration and those they work with are completely corrupt and bribable. Hell, I’ll bet for the cost of a block of rooms at the Trump Hotel you could get Trump himself ordering an extensive air-conditioned tunnel system to be put in at the same time as the fence. By the same installers.

  20. 20
    debbie says:

    Yowsa, Representative Dingell!

  21. 21
    debbie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    No, based on the wording, I’m going with Kellyanne.

  22. 22
  23. 23
    Baud says:

    @aarrgghh:

    Dems tend not to go on record saying stuff like that.

    You’ll find comments like that in some blogs, which is exactly the same as elected officials saying it.

  24. 24
    debbie says:

    @James E Powell:

    Practically certain. They’re thinking they can turn this into a winning issue in 2020.

  25. 25
    Humdog says:

    What are McConnel’s chances of having the votes to kill the filibuster with the new Senate make up? Can you filibuster voting to kill the filibuster?
    Not that it really matters, as Nancy won’t let wall funding pass her House, but just wondering the Senate’s “message” potential.

  26. 26
    West of the Rockies says:

    OT, but I ust saw a photo of doughy Mike Pence lumbering over the marbled floor of Congress. Rest assured, he looks like an irritated grandfather keeping tabs on a slumber party.

    The man has three expressions: displeasure, his look of post-orgasm delight when in Trump’s presence, and, uh…

    Make that two expressions.

  27. 27
    oatler. says:

    Trump’s recent tweets bear a strong resemblance to Hitler’s desperate “stand strong!” speeches.

  28. 28
    Stuart Frasier says:

    @James E Powell:
    I’m thinking this partial shutdown will last long enough to become a total shutdown in September.

  29. 29
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Cowboy Diva: I’m pretty sure they manufacture them in Mexico already.

    Also, as referenced yesterday, thermite.

    And the vertical slats mean that you can brace your ladder between the slats, so it won’t slip. You’ll need a moving blanket or two to cushion the points at the top.

    George Takei says it best:

    Dear America: We tried a wall. It didn’t work.

    Be Best,
    China
    Dec 23, 2018 at 5:19 AM

  30. 30
    scav says:

    @scav: finally found a way to view all the twitter photos. I knew I could count on one of them to go visual for me!

  31. 31
    West of the Rockies says:

    @aarrgghh:

    OMFSM…

    Hey, FreeRepublic… 1996 called. It wants its eye-catching// layout back!

  32. 32
    chris says:

    A nice picket fence, very American! Built by the lowest bidder ,of course, with the cheapest steel and substandard concrete. MAGA

  33. 33
    zhena gogolia says:

    Steeleye Span! They opened for Jethro Tull in KCMO in 1971 or 1972, and somebody stole their costumes before the show.

  34. 34
    MattF says:

    @FlyingToaster: Hmmm. Not to mention East Germany.

  35. 35
    zhena gogolia says:

    @oatler.:

    “Das war ein Befehl!!!”

  36. 36
    zhena gogolia says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Should be “Das war ein Befehl” but there’s no edit function.

  37. 37
    SFAW says:

    @chris:

    with the cheapest steel and substandard concrete.

    Sold by The New Trump Organization, to the US Department of Building Walls and Shit to Keep Out Messicans and Other Browns, for a 500 percent markup.

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @SFAW:

    Trump steaks slats.

  39. 39
    JaySinWA says:

    @SFAW: Venetian blinds, I tell you.

  40. 40

    @Humdog:

    What are McConnel’s chances of having the votes to kill the filibuster with the new Senate make up?

    It would be stupid beyond comprehension for McConnell to kill the legislative filibuster (the only one left to kill) in the next session. Killing the filibuster might have made sense in 2017, when the Republicans controlled both houses and the presidency, since it would have given them the ability to pass a lot of their agenda. But with the Democrats in control of the House, that isn’t going to happen. The Republicans aren’t going to be passing any bills that Nancy Pelosi isn’t willing to bring to the floor, and any bill like that is going to get enough Democratic support in the Senate that the filibuster is irrelevant. If the Republicans somehow manage to retake the House and retain control over the Senate and Presidency in 2020, they can think about abolishing the filibuster then. For now, though, all killing the filibuster would do now is save Democrats the effort the next time they’re in charge of both houses.

  41. 41
    trollhattan says:

    @West of the Rockies:
    I’d add “Ambian infomercial customer” as look #3.

  42. 42
    hilts says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’ll set my sails of silver,
    And I’ll steer towards the sun,
    And you, false love, will weep for me
    When I’m gone, when I’m gone, when I’m gone.

    And fuck President Butthurt.

  43. 43
    cynthia ackerman says:

    President Eclipses Neville Chamberlain.

    Wear it.

  44. 44
    James E Powell says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    this is exactly how the guy operated throughout his career as a developer — build giant unwieldy projects, declare bankruptcy, and stick someone else with the bill. He sees no reason why it won’t work again since it always worked for him before.

    It’s amazing how hard it has been to get this essential fact into the minds, let alone the coverage, of the press/media. With few exceptions, they still say skilled and savvy when they should say corrupt and dishonest.

  45. 45
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Ok, that Erick Sanchez inset made me laugh, but it needz moar guns.

  46. 46
    oldgold says:

    Corker is much more than a day late and a dollar short, but his response to Trump’s critical tweet is amusing.

    @RealDonaldTrump:
    Senator Bob Corker just stated that, “I’m so priveledged to serve in the Senate for twelve years, and that’s what I told the people of our state that’s what I’d do, serve for two terms.” But that is Not True – wanted to run but poll numbers TANKED when I wouldn’t endorse him…..

    @SenBobCorker:
    Yes, just like Mexico is paying for the wall… #AlertTheDaycareStaff

    I like the hashtag.

  47. 47
    Ruckus says:

    @MattF:
    Well all the steel would have to be acquired offshore so yeah shit for brains tariffs are going to be a major cost issue.

    It’s like he’s talking about a raccoon problem in his backyard and not human beings.

    Olivia dear, in his deranged mind, there is no difference.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    I went back to Target a third time and someone on their overnight crew found my missing glasses case and put it into lost and found. PHEW! 😅

  49. 49
    catclub says:

    @Mnemosyne: I would tease Trump this way.”you’re so rich, why don’t you just go ahead and pay for it yourself?”

  50. 50
    Anotherlurker says:

    @zhena gogolia: One of my favorite bands. I saw Steeleye Span in the early ’70s, at The Bottomline.

  51. 51
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Roger Moore:

    The one thing I can see McConnell deciding is that he’ll gamble that RBG won’t make it to 2020 and blow up the filibuster so he can secure the Supreme Court. Sure, it will screw the Republicans in the long term, but he hasn’t cared about the long term since a Black man was elected president.

  52. 52
    Redshift says:

    I know it’s a waste of time to think too much about his dumbass pronouncements, but it seems to me that “steel slats” is a result* of his weird thinking that the Wall should be transparent so we can see them coming. Because he doesn’t know anything about anything, and has no concept of how long 2000 miles is, making it to station border guards every ten feet.

    *and by “result,” I mean I’m betting one of the contractors who submitted a proposal heard that and was smart enough to pander to his dumbass idea.

  53. 53
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    Occasionally, the universe gives back.

  54. 54
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @scav: And for those of us who hate him, it will be a victory.

  55. 55
    Dmbeaster says:

    @Kent: Heck, go for broke. Repeal the 2017 tax cut and we will fund the Wall. Compromise.

  56. 56
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @oatler.: Shit Hitler must have jumped ahead to 1944 in the playbook.

  57. 57
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Didn’t he already blow it up for Gorsuch? Or am I mis-remembering?

  58. 58
    TKH says:

    @FlyingToaster: Zat’s right

    Walter Ulbricht & Erich Honecker

  59. 59
    Mary G says:

    Twitler is so lame:

    Bullies gonna bully. #ChickenChump 👀 didn't have the nerve to remove Mattis early, had Pompeo do it. https://t.co/dnTV8be25u— H🎄ppy H🎅lidays🎉 (@TsunamiNation) December 23, 2018

  60. 60
    trollhattan says:

    @SFAW:
    He did. Used to take 60 votes to confirm, today it’s 51.

  61. 61
    SFAW says:

    @Baud:

    Trump steaks slats.

    I wish I’d a thunk of that.

  62. 62
    SFAW says:

    @JaySinWA:

    Venetian blinds, I tell you.

    No way he’d use some furriner device.

    Unless it’s Chinese. Or Russian. Or Saudi. Or stuff made in any other authoritarian country.

  63. 63
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @chris: And Mexicans could be contracted to build it on the cheap. MAGA.

  64. 64
    SFAW says:

    @trollhattan:

    He did. Used to take 60 votes to confirm, today it’s 51.

    I guess the only thing left is for Turtle and his minions to declare/vote the Dem votes are worth only three-fifths of a vote, thus allowing him to push shit through with only about 42 Rethug votes. (Assumes that, somehow, up to 11-12 Rethugs vote with Dems.)

  65. 65
    SFAW says:

    @trollhattan:

    He did. Used to take 60 votes to confirm, today it’s 51.

    Confirmation always took 51, it was the ability to take the vote — I think it’s called a Motion to Proceed, or something like that? — that took 60.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @SFAW:

    Yes. Filibuster is gone for all appointments.

  67. 67
    chris says:

    @Patricia Kayden: 1) Get Billions of dollars.

    2) Go to Home Depot for cinder blocks, mortar and day workers.

    3)Keep the change.

    MAGA

  68. 68
    scav says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Win-Win, isn’t that the art of compromise?

  69. 69
  70. 70

    @Mnemosyne: The Turtle already blew up the filibuster for the Supreme Court.

  71. 71
    JMG says:

    @Humdog: Mitch will never, ever end the filibuster. Neither wiki any Democratic majority. There aren’t 40 votes in the Senate for it.It’s how both the majority and minority avoid responsibility for individual votes.

  72. 72
    James E Powell says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    McConnell will blow up anything that stands in the way of one-party rule. If the senate retains the filibuster it will be because Republican senators other than McConnell don’t want to blow it up.

  73. 73
    JR says:

    Trump is hoping to inspire the sans culottes

  74. 74
    dww44 says:

    @Mnemosyne: As one who’s been in a similar boat in the past and would be lost without either my prescription sunglasses or regular glasses, I know how very relieved you are. Now, you can enjoy Christmas!

  75. 75
    mad citizen says:

    West of the Rockies at #26: There is a third Pence move: when he gives a speech and to emphasize a point he………says………each………word……with…..too……much……time……in……between….and…….his…….voice……..rising.

    love that one.

  76. 76
    Mnemosyne says:

    @SFAW:

    It looks like you may be right and I’m misremembering.

    If that’s the case, then Mitch is not going to go nuclear, because keeping the 60-vote cloture rule for legislation will allow him to block anything Nancy Pelosi passes in the House.

  77. 77
    Ruckus says:

    @mad citizen:
    I wonder if it’s to emphasize a point or the speed at which he thinks.
    He’s not known, from his own state, as Mike Dense for nothing.

  78. 78
    Mnemosyne says:

    @dww44:

    I think the guy was a little startled that I called him my hero, but I REALLY didn’t want to have to spend another $600 on prescription sunglasses and reading glasses right after the holidays.

  79. 79
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Cowboy Diva:

    How much is it to ship an oxyacetylene torch to Mexico? Asking for a friend.

    I have a suspicion that a few cans of Freon and a few whacks with a hammer will get you through. No need to lug a heavy tank and equipment through the desert.

  80. 80
    Fair Economist says:

    To point out how totally fake the Republican position on the wall is:

    They could easily have passed it through reconciliation. They could even have slammed it thru in the lame duck. That would have been a violation of Congressional norms but hardly the worst they’ve done.

    It’s all a sham.

  81. 81
    mad citizen says:

    @Ruckus: From a bit of googling, I think it’s just a speechifying technique that he overuses. It was probably a fad at some point among his crowd and he’s just stayed with it.

  82. 82
    Ruckus says:

    @mad citizen:
    Could be. But just for the record,
    He’s not known, from his own state, as Mike Dense, for nothing.

  83. 83
    West of the Rockies says:

    @mad citizen:

    Indeed. The man is a fountain of charisma.
    Such an orator.

  84. 84
    mad citizen says:

    Yes, I know agree about Mike Dense, I’m a lifelong Hoosier, nearly 60 years worth. His cluelessness has always reminded me of the Michael Scott charater (Carrell version) on the Office–extreme overconfidence in what he is saying without a freaking clue or nuance behind it.

    When I googled him in 2016 I recall some congressional staffer or someone like that saying they had eaten smarter salads in the congressional lunchroom than Pence.

  85. 85
    Chris T. says:

    @Cowboy Diva: Cheaper to ship them from Mexico, where manufacturers can still afford to buy steel.

  86. 86
    Redshift says:

    @aarrgghh:

    rare moment of clarity, via freeperville, circa 2013

    Only a limited amount of clarity, though. They’re still sure Dems are just as eager for a shutdown to get their way, they’re just smart enough not to talk about it publicly. The idea that they’re not equal and opposite, that the Dems actually do care about government and not just partisan advantage, does not penetrate the freeper skull.

  87. 87

    @James E Powell: Of course he’ll kill the filibuster, but only if he gets enough out of it.

  88. 88
    SFAW says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Of course he’ll kill the filibuster, but only if he gets enough out of it.

    Rumor has it he’s holding out for two dozen Trump steaks, two cases of Trump wine, and a Ph.D. from Trump University.

    Oh, and a gold-plated toilet, autographed by Jarvanka.

  89. 89
    Ruckus says:

    @mad citizen:
    A smarter salad. Not difficult to imagine that.

  90. 90
    gene108 says:

    I want the Democrats to approve a wall, no more fencing that Trump proposes.

    The wall that will be approved will dug 1,000 feet deep, 1,000 feet high, and 1,000 feet thick, made from purest, most beautiful, and most patriotic American made concrete.

    The House will than appropriate $250,000 to pay for three people for the State Department, whose sole job is to go the Mexican Embassy in DC to convince Mexico to pay for it. I’d throw in an extra 50k for travel expenses, as they might need to go to Mexico City. Also, they must be fluent in Spanish and English.

    After they convince Mexico to pay for it, and Mexico makes the payment in full, construction will commence.

    Trump gets his Wall and Congress gives him extra funding to keep a campaign promise. Win win.

  91. 91
    mad citizen says:

    Several times a day lately I think about Pink Floyd’s “The Wall”. I would like to see the remaining three –or even one of the tribute Floyd bands–erect and play “The Wall” on Penn. Ave outside the White House.

  92. 92
    joel hanes says:

    @James E Powell:

    they still say skilled and savvy when they should say corrupt and dishonest.

    needs moar “childish” and “incompetent”

  93. 93
    Steeplejack says:

    Whoa. Very first episode of The Simpsons being run at 8:00 p.m. on Fox.

    “Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire,” December 17, 1989: “Marge has to spend all the family’s Christmas present money getting Bart’s tattoo removed, so Homer gets a job as Santa but bets all his wages on a dog with a festive name.”

  94. 94
    raven says:

    @mad citizen: My brother manages “Which One’s Pink” and they have a portable wall I’ll ask him.

  95. 95
    Jay says:

    The Guardian’s Long Read has a “deep dive” up on the UAE’s “game” in Yemen,………

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/21/yemen-uae-united-arab-emirates-profiting-from-chaos-of-civil-war

    “Four years ago, Ayman Askar was in a prison in south Yemen, serving a life sentence for murder. Now he is a wealthy and important man whose friendships cut across the many lines of the fragmented civil war that has destroyed the country. Askar has recently been named the chief of security for a large district in the southern port city of Aden – appointed by the government of Yemen, on whose behalf Saudi Arabia has been bombing the country for three-and-a-half years. But Askar is also a friend and ally of the United Arab Emirates – the most aggressive partner in the Saudi-led coalition fighting to restore the government of President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi, who was forced from office by the Houthi rebellion in 2015.”

  96. 96
    Suzanne says:

    Without any horizontal bracing or kickers, those “steel slats” will bend like toothpicks. Shit, they could probably be used as catapults.

    Fucking stupid.

  97. 97
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Suzanne:

    They’re also being built in an earthquake zone. A nice 5.0 would topple the whole thing like dominoes.

  98. 98
    mad citizen says:

    @raven: Awesome–I remember reading you saying something about that. I’m in for a gofundme.

  99. 99
    Warren Lorente says:

    @Cowboy DivaNo need for a torch; just a sufficient amount of powdered aluminum and iron oxide (rust).

    -Cheers!

  100. 100
    raven says:

    @mad citizen: Yea, since they are in LA it would be a doozie!

  101. 101
    MoxieM says:

    @zhena gogolia: time to bring back, “Irgendwann fällt jede mauer”

  102. 102
    Ken says:

    @Mary G:

    didn’t have the nerve to remove Mattis early, had Pompeo do it

    Huh. And all this time I thought that cabinet secretaries were independent of one another, reporting and responsible only to the President. Besides Defense, what other departments serve under State?

  103. 103
    Gvg says:

    Steel rusts when it gets wet. Not all of the border is dry. In fact part of it is a river. Parts of it get rain. It’s going to rust out in just a few years. Such a dumb idea. How can this guy be associated with building?

  104. 104
    Suzanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: So fencing with that basic aesthetic (vertical tube steel members with no lateral bracing or kickers)—though I should note WITHOUT the spikes on top—is very popular in bougie residences and landscapes here in the desert southwest right now. I did some on a project about two years ago, about ten feet high. They’re especially popular in Corten, aka weathering steel.

    No matter how deep you do those footings, that shit is wobbly as hell. Each of those individual tubes vibrates and trembles. The concrete footings crack at the bottom, because there is a lot of moment (essentially rotational force) at the base. It is a low-security solution at best. One ram from a vehicle, even a fucking four-cylinder hatchback, will breach it to the point that it is ineffective.

  105. 105
    Suzanne says:

    @Gvg: Steel exposed to the outdoors is typically galvanized and/or coated with special paints to protect it. After all, bridges are made of steel.

    Lots of maintenance, though.

  106. 106
    boatboy_srq says:

    Well, they certainly won’t have anyone sleeping on top of that.

  107. 107
    boatboy_srq says:

    @Gvg: Probably ought to ask some of the contractors he’s stiffed.

  108. 108
    afanasia says:

    @zhena gogolia: Steeleye Span does a great version of the folk tune “The Saucy Sailor.” If you like that kind of thing. And I do.

    I can’t believe I’m on this site when I should be wrapping presents.

  109. 109
    Procopius says:

    @Lapassionara: He’s staying in DC? I hadn’t seen that. I thought he had already left for Mar a Logo. I mean, once the shutdown has started there’s not much for him to do, is there?

  110. 110
    randy khan says:

    @Procopius:

    He has to stay in DC for the optics – it has to appear that he’s taking the shutdown seriously. I bet he hates that part as much as anything.

  111. 111
    moops says:

    @Kent:

    If the Dems really wanted to troll Trump they would agree to “Wall” with a funding mechanism attached. Like repeal of the carried interest loophole.

    I’m sure there are hundreds of loopholes out there that benefit only the extremely wealthy Republican types that could be repealed to pay for the wall. Perhaps some of the real estate scam loopholes that the Trumps take advantage of. Or something to do with the oil industry. The Dem messaging would be awesome. We are just doing the responsible thing and building a wall without adding to the deficit.

    I’m sure there are plenty such measures. Any number of pointless giveaways to our oligarchs. just find one that doesn’t directly benefit Trump personally and he will trade it for his wall. Since it won’t be Paul Ryan doing the negotiating something might actually happen.

    The downside is that giving Trump *any* victory will just make him even more unbearable.

  112. 112
    brantl says:

    @SFAW: It’s called cloture, that debate will last another 30 hours, and then a vote will be taken. Without a passing vote for cloture, debate proceeds indefinitely.

  113. 113
    brantl says:

    @Ken: They do serve the president, not each other.

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