If you have one, just forget about it for a couple months.
I just spent four hours sorting out my mortgage, which when I went to pay it was 200 bucks more a month, which is a massive increase. Called the company, and there was apparently an escrow shortage. Apparently my taxes DOUBLED and I owed the escrow a ton of money.
Now, as a good liberal, I am all in favor of paying more taxes- IF I OWE THEM. So I called up the assessor, and apparently they had accidentally classified my house as a Class IV, which is “All property situated inside a municipality that is not taxed in Class I or Class II.” Class II is what my property should be, which is “Owner-occupied residential property used exclusively for residential purposes and all farm land used for agricultural purposes by its owner or bona fide tenant.”
That switch doubled my tax and then some. So I called them up, and chatted with them, and stated that if this is not in fact my house, I should probably feel a little bit foolish about sitting in someone else’s house in my underwear. It turns out the good people at the Assessor’s office had put it in Class IV because they had just assumed I was the same John Cole that lived across the alley from me, and that the surly bastard we all know as my dad was actually the owner of both properties. I discussed that we both have middle initials and this should not have happened, they agreed, and I then had my mortgage company talk to the tax people and who knows, at some point in 2020 the paperwork will go through and everything will be fine. By then, I presume, I will have had my loan bought out by a new mortgage company. America- Fuck Yeah.
So, that was four hours I will never get back.
Gravenstone
Actually looked at my 401k last week. Was pleasantly surprised to see the return was still (barely) positive. I’ll take that and be happy. We’ll see what next quarter brings.
germy
bobbo
this is the first time in a long time I haven’t felt stupid about moving my 401k to all cash right after Trump won
JPL
My taxes did increase by several hundred dollars, but that’s because I live in Fulton Cty GA.
p.a.
@germy: Calling Rod Serling. Billy Mumy is our President. It’s a Good Life
RAVEN
After our hail damage and new roof I went through our coverage with USAA and the rep mentioned our chimneys. I said “we haven’t had any chimneys since we bought the place 20 years ago, they were capped before we bought it”. Seems as if having four fireplaces made them think there were chimneys too! It lowered our bill a good bit.
Chris
What the hell is a retirement account?
Soprano2
@p.a.: That is exactly what I said earlier today on Facebook!!
Gelfling 545
This kind of thing used to happen to my father and my brother all the time. They too had different middle initisls and, of course, different social security numbers. They had to be especially careful with credit reporting agencies who were inclined to report the amount of debt for one as the sum of both.
karensky
Cole, that sucks that you lost 4 hours but you did solve a big problem. Awesome work.
Also, I hate mortgage companies?
RAVEN
Down $-10,829.65 since Sept 1.
Phylllis
Our mortgage was sold to Ameribank before we could even make the first payment to the original company in September, and has subsequently been sold to Bank of America. We figure it will eventually end up back with who we started with.
JPL
@RAVEN: I need a new roof, but it is because of age. The flashing around the chimney failed so there is some additional damage. After installation, I’ll call and having a new roof will lower my insurance some.
RAVEN
@JPL: I assume you have a functioning fireplace?
schrodingers_cat
DHS is housing infants in cold cells, one child got pneumonia.. Its being done in our name.
satby
The IRA I inherited from my mom was in growth and income stocks and bonds. $3k down for the year, which was 1/10th of the total. I think the fund managers have been slow to move more into bonds because they keep getting blindsided by what an idiot Drumpf is, and bonds aren’t going to be much safer in a real downturn.
If I move it, it’s going to be to pull it out of the market entirely. It’s hard to know what to do, and that’s my site emergency fund, which I am lucky to have. But Drumpf is pissing it away.
Immanentize
@RAVEN:
BUY, BUY, BUY!!
RAVEN
@Immanentize: I don’t to do that in Tias Cref. I just leave it alone.
JPL
@RAVEN: Yup. I only used it a few times though so wish I didn’t. Let me tell you ranch style houses have large roofs. It’s going to cost more than the roof on the house I lived in previously that was almost twice the size.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
Also from Buzzfeed, to no one’s surprise, the Border Patrol is probably lying about why Jakelin Caal died. No autopsy or cause of death has been released, and her father says she was eating and drinking normally before they were arrested.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnstanton/father-7-year-old-guatemalan-dehydration-denial?bfsource=relatedmanual
Immanentize
@satby:
I am still sorting stuff out from my wife’s death. Almost done. But that task kept me from ever looking at my TIAA account. In light of all the market gains for the last seven years, my smallish retirement account is now way out of wack and unbalanced. Too many equities, too few bonds or mixed assets. But I keep thinking we certainly will have ONE positive week before I shift stuff around. Certainly that will happen, right?
Immanentize
@RAVEN: Me too. I was just kidding. I really do just let it ride and TIAA has been very good over the years. I still have a decade of work ahead of me, at least that is the plan
Miss Bianca
@satby: this is the thing that is so infuriating to me – I sold my house back in March and put most of the money into the market, even tho’ I *knew* that Trump would fuck things up out of sheer ignorance, I knew, and did it anyway, figuring I was in it for the long haul, but I don’t know if I’ll ever be done being furious that this so-called “billionaire businessman” is so fucking clueless about how the economy works for the rest of us who weren’t lucky enough to inherit millions, piss it all away, and then get Russian mafiosi money to launder – and millions of Americans were so fucking clueless about how government works that they voted for this toad for President and thought, “what could possibly go wrong?”
trollhattan
I also share dad’s name except for the middle (he did not want a Junior) and have put considerable effort to add my middle initial to every account, etc. to keep us separate. He’s been gone a long while but it’s still prudent to keep doing it.
And no, I do not want to gaze at the next 401k quarterlies, which will mimic those of January 2009.
Do other Chrome users see the site’s navigation arrows and comment format buttons? I don’t, but they’re present in IE.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Buzfeed is doing hard hitting journalism while NYT and the Snooze Hours spend ink and airtime giving Nazis a platform.
SFAW
Didn’t Lying Littledick Pantspisser McTreasonface once tweet — back when that uppity Kenyan Mooslim was President — that a president who lets the DJIA drop so much (I think it was 500-600 points, one day) should be arrested or impeached or both?
The Dangerman
How stupid does one have to be to shutter part of the Government just prior to the Holidays? Asking for a not friend.
I know Security doesn’t get effected, but if we have a shutdown and there is a terrorist event in, say, New York or Vegas (where I might be, actually) on NYE, Trump’s numbers will plummet. The fucking Wall’s approval numbers are low 30’s, pushing the crazification factor.
And you may ask yourself, well, how did we get here?
/talking heads
schrodingers_cat
@The Dangerman: Because a black person was reelected, it drove people crazy and we got T.
Soprano2
@RAVEN: Our account is down over $20,000 in the past two weeks.! We have Apple stock, and two companies in the energy field……’nuff said. My husband is pretty unhappy about it, but is glad they’re only paper losses.
Martin
@trollhattan: My dad and I share exactly the same name, including the middle name. When I got a credit check after applying for my first credit card when I was 18, it was revealing. On the upside, I had shockingly good credit for an 18 year old. On the downside, I had been married to my mom for 9 of the previous 18 years.
Not helping is our SS#s are relatively close both having been born in the same county in NY.
SFAW
@The Dangerman:
A buncha psycho killers being allowed to vote?
catclub
@RAVEN: My policy is never feel that you own the last 20%. So I am down a little more than 10%, which is a new thing over the last 10 years. There is a figure on the internets, showing only positive returns over the last 10 years with a big
“this is not normal” in the sector where negative returns are plotted.
schrodingers_cat
@Martin: That is funny. Husband cat has the name as his grandfather. So he was married to his grandma instead of mom.
ET
I know tRump is incredibly sensitive to the stock market and I wonder if that crazy activity today which is related to his tantrum won’t be the only things that might convince him that he needs to sign the CR.
Cheryl Rofer
You don’t want to miss this! I can’t believe it will stay up long.
Bill K
I have the pleasure of doing a little experiment. I have two 401K’s. (different employers). The larger one I took and moved it all to CD’s in September. The other one I am letting ride in one of those ‘Retirement Goal’ accounts (if you plan on retiring in 2020, for example, you just pick that fund). I haven’t checked either one yet but I can guess which is doing better.
Martin
@Immanentize: Good to hear. I’ll let my dad know – he ran a number of the TIAA-CREF plans some years ago. Said that was the best run outfit he worked at.
catclub
@SFAW: also known as ‘our fellow citizens’.
SFAW
@Martin:
So how do we know that it’s you, and not your father (doing the sockpuppet thing), who is commenting here?
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: I have been impressed for years with their coverage of Eastern Europe.
Martin
@Soprano2: Apple will come back. Might have to wait until next summer, though.
JPL
WTF is happening.
Martin
@SFAW: Oh, you’d be able to tell. He’s just to the left of Bernie Sanders. I’m obviously not.
Quinerly
Messaging???
“We Need Wall.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/sad-and-weird
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer: Thank you.. I didn’t see your comment and erased the link at 42 but kept up my comment, cuz it seems appropriate. .
catclub
@SFAW: I think you are correct. There seems to be a Trump tweet for all occasions.
MagdaInBlack
@Chris:
My question exactly.
Martin
Jesus. We’re all in the wrong business:
trollhattan
@Martin:
That could give a fella a complex.
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
For your husband.
Quinerly
@Cheryl Rofer: WTF?
RepubAnon
Avoid having an escrow account for property taxes and insurance if you can – better to have a dedicated savings account, and put the appropriate amount in there. Sometimes banks “forget” to pay the bills, or disputes arise. If you’re paying the bills, it’s easier to fix.
JPL
Even if the house passes the funding, it still has to go to the Senate where it should fail. Is it possible that Mitch changes the rules of the budget and passes it with 50 votes?
Gravenstone
@Cheryl Rofer: That’s real? He made that callback all by himself? Sounds like the last tiny vestige of ‘normal’ buried deep inside him has finally surrendered to the surrounding madness.
Martin
@JPL: It takes expertise and weeks of hard work to build a house and only minutes for a toddler to burn it down.
The toddler is burning it down.
Mnemosyne
@The Dangerman:
Misogyny, racism, and xenophobia. You’re welcome, America.
schrodingers_cat
@Cheryl Rofer: Against my better judgment, I clicked that. I need a tub of brain bleach now.
SFAW
@Martin:
So you’re saying he’s from Manhattan (or, FSM forbid, Staten Island)?
RAVEN
@catclub: Cool, I don’t know shit. I’ve got someone else guiding me and I’m getting short so fuck it.
Martin
@trollhattan: Takes a bigger issue than that to break through the noise of my other anxieties.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Retirement is more exciting than I expected.
RAVEN
hahahahahaha
FlipYrWhig
STEEL SLATS STEEL SLATS STEEL SLATS
Mike J
All the Repubs are up the street at the WH for the signing of the farm bill.
Mnemosyne
@Martin:
I love how they state the “average” payout without saying that it’s going to be concentrated among the top executives and everyone else will get a few thousand at best.
At least when the Giant Evil gives us a performance bonus, it’s given in terms of X number of weeks of salary rather than stating a bogus lump sum that only the top people will receive a significant part of.
catclub
relevant to today’s discussion
Gravenstone
@RAVEN: Sure, blame the reporter for ruining your life. Fucking ignorant twatwaffle.
/ht ABL
Martin
@SFAW: Brooklyn, actually. The slide to socialism was mainly the byproduct of soul-annihilating jobs (TIAA being the exception) that left him feeling that capitalism was utterly corrupt. I don’t disagree with the corruption, but I ascribe it to a slightly different cause. He neither looks nor sounds like Bernie, though. But he does have an old friend that both looks and sounds like Bernie and is named Bernie, and while he’s also a Democrat, he hates Bernie. He’s hated the last few years, apparently.
Quinerly
@Cheryl Rofer: MSNBC just covered it. It’s from over 10 years ago… Geez, wonder who’s idea it was to bring that out of the vault? I posted a Politico piece earlier about the guy who taught Trump how to tweet. In the beginning, Trump wrote his tweets out in long hand. Then he moved on to having Melania call the guy at 2AM, handing the phone over to Trump, and Trump dictating them with the weird capitalization and punctuation.
Bess
I’ve been through a number of stock market crashes starting with 1987’s Black Monday. My funds have recovered every time and over the long run I’m made buckets of money using non-managed index funds.
Let it ride.
The only reason that I’d pull all my money out of the stock would be if I thought the US was in danger of failure.
That isn’t looking likely. We’re just going through a rough patch from which we will almost certainly recover.
Martin
@Mnemosyne: Maybe, maybe not. My understanding was that Juul was pretty flat organizationally, with a lot of equity passed to employees. This is a bay area startup, after all.
catclub
@RepubAnon: Yes, do that if at all possible.
It is amazing how incompetent businesses can be in their core specialty.
I remember going to a bank and applying for a mortgage and it seemed like everything was new to them. WTF
Martin
@Martin: Granted, $1.3 million for a SF employee really just means they can move up to living in a nicer car.
JeanneT
I finally applied for a property tax abatement (I qualify due to being the spouse of a Viet Nam vet who died of agent orange exposure – aggressive prostate cancer). We could have applied for it when he was first rated 100% disabled, but I delayed for years because the local government needs the taxes to run things. I feel like I’m cheating to ask for the break for 2019, but it does take some of the sting out of losing value on my retirement funds this year.
Spanky
@RAVEN: That CNN article has one of the smarmier pics of Paul Ryan, too, and that’s saying something.
Also too:
FlyingToaster
RE: OP
We have kinda that problem (both of us named after parental units), and although neither of us have lived in the same state as said parental units since (checking) the late 70s or early 80s, we still get weird shit addressed to us that’s clearly NOT for us.
Count yourself lucky that your mortgage problem could be addressed with phone calls. When it starts requiring 3 law firms in two states, then it’s a fucking nightmare.
The Moar You Know
@RAVEN: I lost $1200 day before yesterday. IN ONE DAY.
Tired of all the winning, Donnie. We can stop now.
catclub
@Bess:
and then your problems still won’t be solved by being the only one in your neighborhood with money.
Betting against progress in the US has been a losing long term bet … so far! And there are other countries where betting on progress has not actually worked out.
trollhattan
@Martin:
Here’s hoping they enjoy their blood money. https://www.thefix.com/vaping-rates-double-among-teens-while-opioid-use-declines
Mnemosyne
@Martin:
Trust me. The US-based folks who actually assemble the pods ain’t getting a $1 million bonus. The bulk will be going to the top 5 executives, top 10 at best. A flat organization suddenly develops a big slope when money is involved.
(Their vape pen is made in China, and those people REALLY aren’t going to see one thin dime.)
Mjliberal
@RAVEN: I retired 9/12/18 – down 19k since then.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ve been off-line for a couple hours, Corker’s not actually gonna walk away from the dumpster fire, is he? That would almost be an act of something approaching courage!
RAVEN
@JeanneT: He earned it for you.Take it.
trollhattan
@FlyingToaster:
Those living in mortgage states have it worse, as lawyers are more heavily involved in mortgages than the deeds of trust used in other states. “Check under your seats–you get a lawyer and you get a lawyer and…”
Bess
@catclub:
If I thought the US was in serious danger of failure my money and I would leave the US.
Spanky
@The Moar You Know: Ahhh, this could devolve into full Four Scotsmen territory, so let’s just all agree that we’re all losing an unhealthy percentage of our investment $$$.
I suspect that someone is making money in this market, and if one of those someones is named Trump that it won’t end well for him/her.
Gin & Tonic
Efgoldman’s (and p.a.’s, I think) Congressman bringing the wood to Kirstjen Nielsen.
catclub
@Mjliberal: you may be interested in this, as a suggested way to deal with downturns.
The 4 Year Rule
I am planning to use it when I retire, still accumulating cash for downmarket fund.
p.a.
@The Moar You Know:
Not laughing or being flip, just whistling past the graveyard: ($1200) would be considered a good day for my GE
stockwallpaper.Gin & Tonic
@Martin: If you’re not constrained by morals, you can make a lot more money. Old story.
Betty Cracker
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: wow. Just wow.
catclub
@p.a.: GE, ouch.
Immanentize
@Martin: Thank your Dad for me! Seriously, well run and no tricks. You have to self moniter your accounts and do your own (re) allocations which isn’t for everyone, but no real fees, solid investments, and generally careful fund management.
FlyingToaster
@trollhattan: Jointly held properties where one member decided to sell a property and forge the signature of the other, then the mortgaging bank was also a client of the 2-state lawfirm….
The day with the forensic accountant (with WarriorBabyGirl in a Moses basket at my feet) was the highlight of the whole experience. And I had to be there because the other state had required a signature that made me one of the victims as well.
I’ve only lived in mortgage states, so I’ve become familiar with the “GET A PROPERTY LAWYER” instruction. Because otherwise things just always go pear shaped.
Mary G
@Betty Cracker: Love her little eye roll at the end.
Like Ariana Granda says, thank u, next.
chopper
@Quinerly:
i love…lamp. i love…wall.
Bess
@catclub:
That’s a good general plan. But also realize that if you’ve had your money in the market a long time selling some shares into a 20% down market is not the end of the world. If the money you put in has grown 100% over the years then you’re still up 80%. The money you might have kept in non-volatile accounts will have grown very little.
A cash reserve for a shorter period, perhaps two years which is more the length of market downturns might be adequate.
VOR
@catclub:
Yep. We re-financed our mortgage early in the big housing bubble. We had to do 3 closings because they kept screwing up the paperwork. Basic, basic stuff – wrong address, spelled my name wrong (twice), payment calculations were wrong. etc… I was aghast but the mortgage rep just shrugged their shoulders and said it happens all the time, no big deal.
Spanky
And let me correct a comment I made earlier in the day via this WaPo banner:
Hoping Tobie sees this. Of course, then what the hell was the woman on the other end of the phone talking about?
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
Guessing another tinkle contest with a skunk who shall not be named.
p.a.
@Gin & Tonic: Yep, he’s mine too. Great Imus line from when Cicilline was mayor. Imus was interviewing M Stanton (IIRC) on his Cianci book, when Stanton told him the then mayor was the half-Italian, half-Jewish openly gay son of a mob lawyer. Imus: there’s your next book!
HeleninEire
Yeah. I clicked on my retirement account the other day. Did it a bit drunk cuz I was scared. My thing is “please don’t fall below X amount.” It fell below by a bit. But I made so much under Obama I cannot complain. I lost almost 10% and I am in index funds.
That’s OK. That’s OK. That’s OK.
rikyrah
But, you got it straightened out, Cole. That’s the positive.
catclub
@VOR: If I ever do anything major again, I will ask to have final, fully filled out paperwork three days in advance of the actual closing. That might give time to fix most of the mistakes.
rikyrah
I haven’t checked anything. Why upset myself so close to the Holidays?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I already hated that fucking commercial
catclub
How does never sound? Does that work for you, cause it works for me.
Spanky
DOW closed down 468 for the day. Not as bad as it could have been.
That’s 22,859. Trying to read the 2-year DOW chart, it looks like it passed that on the way up in October 2017. So 14 months, basically. Not that long ago, so try to keep things in perspective, people!
Roger Moore
@Martin:
I’d rather keep my soul, thanks.
Mary G
WaPo says: Ethics officials said Whitaker should recuse from the Mueller probe, but his advisers told him not to, officials say
jl
Thanks to Cole for a fun Cole near-disaster story. I’ll watch for the fundraiser if Cole and the critters get tossed.
My only quibble with the story is that, from what I have learned through this blog, the elder and younger Coles are hard to distinguish.
Do both Cole’s show up at local government agencies grouchy in their underwear to take care of various business? That would definitely confuse the dedicated local public servants.
chopper
moved the ol TSP into bonds a bit back. likely too early and missed out on some gains, but at least i aint been stressin’.
Ruckus
@Chris:
What the hell is a retirement account indeed!
That almost insignificant amount went on walkabout during the last republican recession and hasn’t been seen since.
chopper
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
pelosi has to be loving this. she is just owning these guys. she’s publicly pushing hard just to keep the lights on, and here’s the GOP doing everything they can to shut it down for no good reason at all.
germy
These folks just don’t give up.
JR
I declined to pay my taxes in escrow largely because the mortgage company collects said escrow a year in advance. Plus they charge a small, but significant, fee to do this. Over a thirty year period, that adds up to a lot of lost interest. But fuck ups like these are also a good reason to handle it yourself.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
This explains the strange reaction of the person I talked to when I called there. She said, “You should have faith that people here will do the right thing and uphold the Constitution.”
We are through the map, etc.
JR
@satby: Trump is an idiot but a big part of the market decline is that the current boom was unsustainable. We probably crossed the sustainability threshold before Trump came into office, but he’s not helping.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
It’s in WaPo now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/ethics-officials-say-whitaker-need-not-recuse-from-supervising-special-counsel-probe-according-to-a-person-familiar-with-the-matter/2018/12/20/76332392-046b-11e9-b5df-5d3874f1ac36_story.html?utm_term=.4fac509fe14e&wpisrc=al_news__alert-politics–alert-national&wpmk=1
Schlemazel
@bobbo:
We moved all of our last fall. that 3% is looking very good about now. Really I thought this was going to happen around new years this year.
I only have a couple years left & not enough saved as it is
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
Folks didn’t want a Jr either, so I’m a II. No one ever notices that, so yeah I’ve had issues. But dad has been gone long enough that it is no longer a problem.
Barbara
@satby:
Once the Fed announced that it would be raising rates, the value of existing bonds tends to go down, so it’s tricky to switch from stocks to bonds when you know that rate changes are coming down the pike. Plus, not all funds have it within their investment strategy to own bonds. I weathered 2008, but I am 10 years closer to retirement now, so I really don’t want that to happen again. I think I am down about 5.5% for the year, but still up over the last 3 and 5 year periods. Yes, I just checked.
Doug R
In our province, owner occupants get a break and seniors get a massive break. So my mom died October a year ago. Because the property was 55+ and no pets allowed, we couldn’t occupy so our property tax was roughly 10x what she paid. Oh well, that’s a few thousand less we get in the settlement.
MoxieM
@Phylllis: I learned (the hard way) that, at least in MA, you get one month grace period of fucking up mailing in your payment to the wrong mortgage company, when they play the shell game with them. I mailed mine to the wrong zip code making the first payment to the new vultures, and it ended up posting as a 30 day late, which totally besmirched my credit score. That is how I found out. Don’t know if that’s true nationally, as in part of the Consumer Protection scheme or not.
Schlemazel
@SFAW:
It was a 1000s points over two days should be impeached.
Hair furor has done it at least 3 times this year
catclub
@Schlemazel:
It did!, just a month later than that, then went back up again.
Bess
@Bess:
“That’s a good general plan. But also realize that if you’ve had your money in the market a long time selling some shares into a 20% down market is not the end of the world. If the money you put in has grown 100% over the years then you’re still up 80%. The money you might have kept in non-volatile accounts will have grown very little.
A cash reserve for a shorter period, perhaps two years which is more the length of market downturns might be adequate.”
I did a quick and dirty spreadsheet. Over the last 90 years the S&P 500 has a total annual return average of 9.8%. You might find a place to earn 2% for a cash reserve. Here’s what could happen if you put $1,000 in each and needed to sell at some point.
After one year you would have $1,098 in the market. Selling at a 20% loss would net you $878. The fixed rate account would be worth $1,020. You’d have an extra $142 if you used a cash reserve.
After three years your thou in the market would have grown to $1,324. Selling at a 20% loss would net $1,059. Your thou cash reserve would be worth $1,061. Two dollars more.
After six years your thou in the market would have grown to $1,752. Selling at a 20% less would net $1,402. Your thou case reserve would be worth $1,126. You’d be $276 ahead had you put your $1,000 in the market rather than a cash reserve.
Looks to me as if keeping a cash reserve makes sense only for a few years. After a few years of growth dump the cash reserves into the market.
jl
@Schlemazel: I’m glad that some were not fooled by media into thinking there was a Trump economy. There is not now and never has been a Trump economy. It was continuation of the Obama economy, and the extremely technically competent (if often wrongheaded) Dub and Obama Fed and Treasury bureaucrat management. So, since Trumpsters did nothing at all until their tax cut heist scam bill to disturb the status quo, no reason to expect anything but a continuation of medium run trends since end of Great Recession.
So, IMHO, the initial Trump stock market run-up was mostly investors guessing about how much tax cut and deregulatory cash they would get, with a flyer on maybe something would happen to increase productivity. The market apparently thinks it has a good fix on the takings, and adjusting accordingly.
What will happen now that Trumpster macroeconomic and fiscal policy innovations are kicking in (bad tax cut bill, trade war, and accelerated upward income and wealth distribution), I don’t think anyone knows. I’ll monitor my favorite macroeconomists to see if if they have any clues. Macroeconomy and policy is pushing the envelope into weird dysfunctional GOP supply side scam policies not seen in 35 years. Unlike Reagan, Trump and Trumpsters will not have enough common sense to adjust to reality as the failure of their policies become clear.
Edit: I think this week will push stock market into official bear market territory. I don’t think anyone knows how long it will last.
Edit2: we are probably moving into the Trump economy over last few months, and will be getting a clear picture of what that will be over next year. My guess is it won’t be anything good for anyone, not even the super rich aholes they want to enrich even more.
Barbara
@Bess: A lot of investment strategy depends on when you need the money, but trying to time the market is more likely to cost money than save you from losses. So the advice I have generally received is that if you need money in the near term (college, down payment, etc.), then by all means move the money to a safer place.
What I explained to my husband in 2008, because he was a lot more anguished than I was, very few of us have enough money to survive a true meltdown. To some extent, we have to have faith that we will collectively try to do what is in the best interest of all of us. If we don’t, and the bottom really falls out, our individual savings are unlikely to take us far or what saves us. My faith in that view has been sorely tested over the last two years.
Schlemazel
@JR:
Actually I think his tax cut BS is the reason the market didn’t die a year ago. Billions dumped into corporate stock buybacks artificially inflated share prices. That money is gone now & people are going to look at the actual value of the shares they own & the correction will be worse/
Want to live very dangerously? I know of a fund that is leveraged and moves inverse to the DJIA (there is a partner fund that moves in the same direction as DJ) but it moves a 3X, so if the DJIA drops 10% you make 30%. That sounds really exciting until you factor in that if the DJIA should go up 10% you lose 30%. I REALLY want to drop a few bucks in that but I don’t have the nerves given I hope to retire soon
Ksmiami
@SFAW: @SFAW: I think we need to revoke voting privileges for yahoo trumpers. They are a waste of human protoplasm
Ohio Mom
@Schlemazel: Are you back from the doctor’s, or whiling away time inbetween different doctors?
Elizabelle
@Barbara: I always value your comments.
cain
@trollhattan:
Better vaping than opiod use. At least we can attempt to regulate vaping. We defeated smoking, they changed the product, but we can still attack that as well.
The Pale Scot
Now is the time to sell anything that you have a profit on, except for FB, and hold onto the rest for the long haul. The market’s is bouncing to The Creature’s wimpering and the Fed. But in the middle of Jan. the UK is going vote down the black WA and slide down the chute to a no deal Brexit, that is going to be a Black Swan event that should have been entirely predictable. The Pound will drop.. a lot, with London being a financial node that doesn’t have access to the continent. Everybody’s predictions and plans goes out the window. With majority of stock transactions being filled and executed by algorithm all markets will tank. And the vultures that initiated this will buy up distressed assets
Add: This is along with Wall Street’s dearly held opinion that a fuctioning economy is impossible if they can’t borrow at the discount window for free and use it to play the market
catclub
@Barbara: well put. Thanks.
Bess
@Barbara: Yes, if you have a clear need for some money in the short term and the market is close to record highs then take that money out.
I’m talking about a strategy for someone living (or partially living) off their investments. IMHO it does not make financial sense to keep money in a long term cash reserve. Math above.
Lady raxterinok
@Schlemazel: Retired on 04 and living off SS and TIAA/CREF pension money. Super unhappy now
Steve in the ATL
@JPL:
What you need, dear, is a hail storm. Hail storm=free roof.
Steve in the ATL
@Ksmiami:
I see your proposal, and raise you 2008 shrub voters
JeanneT
@RAVEN: Yes, that’s what I decided this year. If I ever feel less worried about the future – or more worried about my city – I can go back to paying my share.
Steve in the ATL
@Steve in the ATL: d’oh! Meant 2004.
debbie
Can’t you ask your mortgage servicer to run a new escrow analysis since they’ve communicated with the taxing authority and confirmed there was an error?
debbie
@trollhattan:
If you’re still around, yes and yes.
Chris Johnson
Amazing and sad to me, to see so many of you freaking out and genuinely upset because your finances are moving in the DIRECTION of mine. I owe four thousand dollars on a credit card, have a few hundred dollars in the bank, have a USDA mortgage on a fixed rate, and expect to be able to make all those payments next month.
I am DAMN LUCKY. Don’t howl and cry because your $100K retirement funds threaten to become $50K… or $10K. I will never see any ‘retirement fund’, most likely, and my whole income mechanism is subject to randomly evaporating since I freelance on the internet and probably always will. My userbase will protect me and I’ve got some friends in high places.
You’re going to have to get used to that kind of security, rather than aggregated-capital security. Make and keep friends. Be worth helping. The numbers in your bank account are already pixie dust, have been for decades upon decades. Nobody really ‘earns’ the kinds of money that have distorted the world during my lifetime (and, formerly, in the Gilded age and previous booms that preceded devastating busts)
Live humbly, have friends, devote some thought to how you will literally, minimally survive if you had nothing whatsoever. I’ve been homeless. Quitcher bitchin.
Barbara
@Bess: I think I was agreeing with you. Don’t jump in and out, it doesn’t work, but move money if you need it.
@Chris Johnson: Do you get tired of jumping in just to tell us that we and the world both suck?
Chris Johnson
@Barbara: You don’t suck, but my God. Have a sense of proportion. It’s really disconcerting. Is Ruckus telling you that you suck, too?
As to the world… well YEAH. Right now the world seriously sucks, and I blame Putin more than anyone, certainly more than any of you. And yes, in the world Putin has made for us, your retirement investments are threatened. I’d rather they weren’t, but I get really salty when ANY DOWNTURN leads to gnashing of teeth. Don’t you think you’re affected by the state of the world? Are you supposed to be exempt because you’re an investor-class person? Things have indeed worked that way, to a fault.
Barbara
@Chris Johnson: No, I am not supposed to be exempt and I am sorry that you might be out on the precipice –it just didn’t seem to me that people were whining. They are worried.