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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Hey, Thanks, Kevin!

Hey, Thanks, Kevin!

by Cheryl Rofer|  December 18, 20185:37 pm| 61 Comments

This post is in: Dolt 45, Election 2016, Open Threads, All we want is life beyond the thunderdome, Into the weeds

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Kevin Drum has taken my Steele dossier analysis and made some evaluations of the claims. Here’s what he came up with:

It looks about right to me.

Kevin:

Aside from three oddball claims that I couldn’t really classify (6, 7, and 19 if you’re counting), it looks to me like the dossier includes 15 claims that are now fully or partially supported and 27 claims for which we have no evidence so far. These 27 claims include a fair amount of insider Kremlin gossip.

What I found most interesting is this: although there’s no public evidence one way or the other for these 27 claims,² there doesn’t appear to be a single claim that we know with certainty is false. There are claims that have been denied by the American participants, but none that we have documentary proof of being mistaken. Partly this is because it’s hard to prove a negative, but it’s still surprising that not a single claim in the report has been conclusively debunked. It’s especially surprising since the dossier is a patchwork of raw intelligence, and even if it was well done by competent professionals you’d still expect it to include at least a few claims that, two years later, we could say were categorically wrong.

Emptywheel, however, feels that I’m missing evidence against some of the claims. I’ve suggested that she and talk about it offline.

And open thread!

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Previous Post: « Breaking News: LTG Flynn’s Sentencing Is????
Next Post: But Seriously: Stop Giving Liars A Platform! »

Reader Interactions

61Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    December 18, 2018 at 5:39 pm

    I’ve suggested that she and talk about it offline.

    Cat fight!

  2. 2.

    cain

    December 18, 2018 at 5:43 pm

    please.. Cheryl would win.

  3. 3.

    Doug R

    December 18, 2018 at 5:44 pm

    Maybe you two can team up on a cross-posting? Synergy!

  4. 4.

    Yarrow

    December 18, 2018 at 5:45 pm

    it’s still surprising that not a single claim in the report has been conclusively debunked.

    Steele ran the Russia desk at MI6. He’s good at what he does.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    December 18, 2018 at 5:45 pm

    @Doug R: Collusion even.

  6. 6.

    Gbbalto

    December 18, 2018 at 5:47 pm

    We’ll get to top 10000 blog status now.
    Seriously, Cheryl, thank you for the time and effort you put into informing us on sundry subjects, and congrats on getting featured by Drum and Emptywheel!

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 18, 2018 at 5:48 pm

    MT links to trump’s tweets claiming that Isikoff has backed him up on the Steele dossier. I”m not going to listen to a whole podcast, but it looks like Isikoff was talking about “the more sensational aspects” of the dossier. At least he didn’t trot out “salacious”. Could we grow the fuck up and when we’re talking about the pee tape, just call it the pee tape.

  8. 8.

    eclare

    December 18, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    @Gbbalto: Yes, congratulations!

  9. 9.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 5:49 pm

    RIP Penny Marshall!

    Not just an iconic acting character like Laverne, but also the director of some pretty iconic films…like Big and one of the BEST baseball movies ever with one of the GREATEST scenes ever. I still tell folks who cry excessively…”there’s no crying in baseball” LOL

    There’s No Crying in Baseball – A League of Their Own (5/8) Movie CLIP (… https://youtu.be/6M8szlSa-8o via @YouTube

  10. 10.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    @lamh36: Not only that, but two of the “Black films” that Black folks especially love and remember fondly….Jumping Jack Flash AND The Preacher’s Wife with Whitney and Denzel!

    Jumping Jack Flash, directed by Penny Marshall. One of my top 5 Whoopi Goldberg movies!!!

    RIP Penny Marshall!

    Shredder Fight (1986) HD https://youtu.be/B6-nYQbUteA via @YouTube

  11. 11.

    Baud

    December 18, 2018 at 5:51 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Let’s use the French “la video d’urine.” Sounds classier.

  12. 12.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 18, 2018 at 5:52 pm

    @Baud: “No law against collusion.”*

    *Esteemed legal scholar Rudolph Giuliani.

  13. 13.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 5:53 pm

    @lamh36: @MatthewACherry
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    Imagine A League Of Their Own sequel that starts with the scene of the black woman throwing the ball back from the stands and you stay with her and it becomes a biopic on the 3 black women that played in the Negro Leagues (Toni Stone, Mami “Peanut” Johnson & Connie Morgan).

  14. 14.

    gwangung

    December 18, 2018 at 5:55 pm

    @lamh36: Wow. That’s right.

    So….why wasn’t she honored more?

  15. 15.

    Baud

    December 18, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    Four days after attorneys secretly argued over a grand jury subpoena suspected to be related to special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian influence in the 2016 election, a federal appeals court is forcing an unnamed company to comply with the subpoena.

    The appeals court did not identify the company, nor did the appellate judges say the subpoena was related to the Mueller investigation. The company that sought to quash the subpoena is owned by a foreign country, the ruling Tuesday said.

    https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/18/politics/mueller-mystery-grand-jury-appeal/index.html

  16. 16.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 18, 2018 at 6:00 pm

    I wonder why Drum says that the Cohen Prague trip is “unlikely to be true.” I have traveled to Prague several times in the last decade, and have no Czech stamps in my passport – because EU borders are just lines on a map these days. Prague is less than a 4 hour drive from Vienna, and less than a 5 hour drive from Frankfurt.

  17. 17.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:00 pm

    @renato_mariotti
    Follow Follow @renato_mariotti
    More Renato Mariotti Retweeted BigCrimeHat
    What I don’t understand is *why* Flynn’s team tried to falsely suggest wrongdoing where none existed. They had to know that deception was going nowhere with the judge. Perhaps Flynn wanted to set up his post-conviction speaking tour or political career.

    @Popehat
    I seriously hope that this train wreck wasn’t a complete surprise to General Flynn — that SOMEBODY warned him that it might go this way, and that the signs were that the judge was mad. A client getting blindsided because nobody told him the truth is unacceptable.
    https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1075087830366314496

    Any lawyers want to suggest what Flynn’s lawyers thought they could get? Was this all about getting a pardon from Chump? Since Chump still seems to like Flynn?

    ETA: Many folks saying Flynn was trying to save some good graces with the Right

  18. 18.

    dnfree

    December 18, 2018 at 6:02 pm

    This is an awesome effort, and glad to see it is getting noticed and expanded. Thanks!

  19. 19.

    Yutsano

    December 18, 2018 at 6:03 pm

    @lamh36: Whoopi will be a mess tomorrow on “The View”. She had a habit of staying close with the folks she worked with in the past, and I believe Penny was one of them.

    Not to mention that’s one of my favourite movies growing up. And now that I think about it, was quite progressive in outlook.

  20. 20.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 18, 2018 at 6:04 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Nothing has ruled out a trip to Prague by Cohen, but there’s very little evidence for it, only one claim that Kevin references by McClatchy that Mueller knows about it. I have to say that I’m a bit dubious too.

  21. 21.

    JAFD

    December 18, 2018 at 6:05 pm

    Hello again!
    Getting better slow but sure. Home ‘net still non-reconnectd, so sending this via Univ Hosp wwifi.
    Happy Holidays to you and all of yours and all ye world’s Juicers, actual and potential.

  22. 22.

    Yutsano

    December 18, 2018 at 6:08 pm

    @gwangung: Here comes the posthumous Oscar…

  23. 23.

    Gin & Tonic

    December 18, 2018 at 6:08 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Maybe I’m splitting hairs, but “unlikely to be true” and “very little evidence” don’t feel like the same thing to me. Cohen seemed to go out of his way to deny that specific claim, and to do so as ineptly as possible.

  24. 24.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:08 pm

    Second woman claims billionaire perv Jeffrey Epstein ‘directed’ her to have sex with Alan Dershowitz https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-dershowitz-epstein-leaks-20181211-story.html

  25. 25.

    Kraux Pas

    December 18, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    “No law against collusion.”*

    But what if you are colluding in something…illegal…?

  26. 26.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:10 pm

    @gwangung: well she was on of the first “lady directors” and we know how even now Hollywood can be dicks

  27. 27.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:12 pm

    @Yutsano: Definitely. To be quite honest, I used to watch The View even with the original lineup…but I stopped years ago…when I did go back to it, it was because of Whoopi Goldberg. I think folks kinda forget just how BIG a deal Whoopi Goldberg was for a time, legend and icon should not be used lightly, but they BOTH apply to Whoopi for sure!

  28. 28.

    Yutsano

    December 18, 2018 at 6:12 pm

    @lamh36: At least we can say Garry supported her the whole time. They never seemed to compete against each other and remained close.

  29. 29.

    Yutsano

    December 18, 2018 at 6:14 pm

    @lamh36: I love how people think Whoopi ended up there because she was “washed out”. Try again. This was her second act in life.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    December 18, 2018 at 6:14 pm

    @JAFD: Not sure what happened but feel better.

  31. 31.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 18, 2018 at 6:15 pm

    @Kraux Pas: You’ll have to ask Rudy about that, I’m just a poor photographer.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 18, 2018 at 6:15 pm

    @JAFD:

    Happy holidays to you, too! Glad you’re improving, and hope it continues every day.

  33. 33.

    The Thin Black Duke

    December 18, 2018 at 6:16 pm

    @lamh36: Exactly. The only reason Penny got the opportunity to direct Big was because everybody else Hollywood offered it to turned it down.

  34. 34.

    germy

    December 18, 2018 at 6:16 pm

    Fox News is trapped in a net of their own bigotry, lies and rage. If they do what advertisers want and dial back the white genocide stuff, then their audience will canibalize the network. If they stay the course, their ad revenue will be decimated and shareholders will sue.

    — Angelo Carusone (@GoAngelo) December 18, 2018

  35. 35.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    Uh…huh…so Faux News was touting the Black judge before Flynn’s hearing…now I’m betting they gonna treat him like “just another Black guy” now…

  36. 36.

    trollhattan

    December 18, 2018 at 6:18 pm

    @lamh36:
    In an ironic twist, Dersh again gets invited to parties in the Hamptons so that people can acknowledge the lengths to which he’d go to get laid.

    Still amazed Epstein didn’t pull at least a decade in the slammer.

  37. 37.

    satby

    December 18, 2018 at 6:19 pm

    @JAFD: been thinking about you JAFD , and hoping the recovery has been going well. Keep plugging through rehab, it really helps in the long run. We’ll have happy holidays knowing you’re still with us and getting better!

  38. 38.

    piratedan

    December 18, 2018 at 6:20 pm

    @Baud: my guess would be Deutsche Banke…. that was the first banker indicted and where Kennedy’s kid was working, just a guess but there are oodles of possibilities

  39. 39.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:21 pm

    @Yutsano: Right…I always laugh at folks who think that. She isn’t a box office draw. She doesn’t even do much acting anymore and I don’t belive she does ANY standup anymore…but when she was in her prime…she was a BIG draw…hell there’s a reason she’s hosted the Oscars so much. And even when she wasn’t the Sister Act franchise and Broadway musical set her for life. She doesn’t need The View as much as The View needs her.

  40. 40.

    Kraux Pas

    December 18, 2018 at 6:21 pm

    So, since open thread, I’m just gonna throw this out there.

    I’ve been subjected to the argument for the last couple days that opposition to laws that disproportionately impact people of color, voter ID laws for example, is racist because it basically says such people are not competent to do basic things like get an ID. Also, too, welfare is racist because we are saying people of color can’t feed themselves.

    I can’t even so much that I had to share.

  41. 41.

    Aleta

    December 18, 2018 at 6:22 pm

    @lamh36: Aw no! She was so funny.

    @JAFD: You too. Hope you keep feeling better every week.

  42. 42.

    satby

    December 18, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    @lamh36: though I admire all she accomplished, Penny Marshall was far from one of the first female movie directors. And that article doesn’t even mention Ida Lupino.

  43. 43.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 18, 2018 at 6:26 pm

    @lamh36: I think folks kinda forget just how BIG a deal Whoopi Goldberg was for a time, legend and icon should not be used lightly, but they BOTH apply to Whoopi for sure!

    I remember a few years ago the Oscars show did a little clip segment featuring past hosts and they left out…. Whoopi Goldberg, the only Oscar host who was actually an Oscar winner.

  44. 44.

    Aleta

    December 18, 2018 at 6:27 pm

    @Kraux Pas: They used to claim (maybe still do) that supporters of abortion rights were racist. They’ll use any argument to undercut human rights.

  45. 45.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:31 pm

    @kylegriffin1
    Following Following @kylegriffin1
    More
    Page 16: Court transcript.

    THE COURT: If you want to proceed because you are guilty of this offense, I will finally accept your plea.
    THE DEFENDANT: I would like to proceed, Your Honor.
    THE COURT: All right. Because you are guilty of this offense?
    THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor.

    5:30 PM – 18 Dec 2018

  46. 46.

    germy

    December 18, 2018 at 6:33 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Whoopi was great in the recent Beatles documentary:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3Lq0XDgKHQ

  47. 47.

    satby

    December 18, 2018 at 6:34 pm

    @Aleta:

    They used to claim (maybe still do) that supporters of abortion rights were racist.

    That’s actually very funny, because the pro-life movement early on was (and I’m sure still is) quite open about their racism. An early argument against abortion used by their campus speakers in the 1970s was that educated white women were the ones who got abortions, black and Hispanic women didn’t and so the U.S. would be overrun with people of color all having babies. They never picketed the PP clinic near to my home in Chicago in the 90s, because it was in a black neighborhood.
    Always projection with the reichwing.

  48. 48.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 18, 2018 at 6:37 pm

    @satby:

    Marshall wasn’t the first female director, you’re quite right. But Hollywood uses money as a primary metric, and she was the first woman to direct a movie that grossed over $100 million.

  49. 49.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:38 pm

    @satby: ok…not one of the first EVER…doesn’t negate what I said about her being a “lady director” and how Hollywood STILL treat female directors…

    ETA: @SiubhanDuinne: exactly…thank you

  50. 50.

    lamh36

    December 18, 2018 at 6:40 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Lordt…thank goodness I missed that. She was one of the best host for the Oscars ever.

    I mean now that there is a vacancy…I mean why not have Whoopi and Billy come back one last time?

  51. 51.

    Aleta

    December 18, 2018 at 6:41 pm

    Thanks Cheryl for starting further discussion. It’s a thing I like about the internet when it happens. And curse when it doesn’t.

  52. 52.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 18, 2018 at 6:41 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I remember a few years ago the Oscars show did a little clip segment featuring past hosts and they left out…. Whoopi Goldberg, the only Oscar host who was actually an Oscar winner.

    Holee … SRSLY? … I just can’t even ….

  53. 53.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 18, 2018 at 6:42 pm

    @lamh36:

    I mean now that there is a vacancy…I mean why not have Whoopi and Billy come bback one last time?

    Sounds like a great idea! Why ever not?

  54. 54.

    Kathleen

    December 18, 2018 at 7:01 pm

    @lamh36: I’m glad you posted that tweet. The thread was fascinating. I would love to see a movie about those 3 women players. And the female owners of some of the teams!

  55. 55.

    Kathleen

    December 18, 2018 at 7:08 pm

    @lamh36: I love Whoopi. She’s also an EGOT! Adore her in Sister Act.

  56. 56.

    Ohio Mom

    December 18, 2018 at 7:19 pm

    That pie chart is SO Kevin Drum. No one likes making charts and graphs as much as he does. He must have been excited when he realized he could make Cheryl’s thoughts into a nice segmented circle.

    A while back, he was diagnosed with multiple myeloma. He’s responding well to the treatment — which periodically documents with an updated graph.

  57. 57.

    ruemara

    December 18, 2018 at 7:38 pm

    @Kraux Pas: I hope whoever you were arguing with has a bag of elephant poop fall on them.

  58. 58.

    Burnspbesq

    December 18, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    @lamh36:

    It’s not hard to imagine sex with Dershowitz being even worse than sex with Trump.

    There isn’t enough brain bleach in the known universe.

  59. 59.

    Barbara

    December 18, 2018 at 9:41 pm

    @germy: There must be some point where they lose both viewers and advertisers and wither away and die.

  60. 60.

    Ohio Mom

    December 18, 2018 at 9:48 pm

    @Kraux Pas: Whatever is the “welfare” your acquaintance is referring to — there are a number of safety net programs but none have that title — more white people are on the rolls than members of any minority group. But you already knew that.

    You can’t convince people like that with facts, they repel facts.

Comments are closed.

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