Open Thread: Giving Nancy Pelosi (Some Portion of) Her Due

OK, we are saying a hyperbole, but she promises she will quit being speaker once she is 83. (83!) She is 78 right now, so basically she is saying she’ll be the boss of two more Congresses and then she will hand her gavel to somebody who’s ready on day one like a common Nancy Pelosi. (Presumably, this gives her a chance to finish grooming whomever is best suited to take her spot.)

See? Everybody wins. Also? LIKE A BOSS.

Pelosi, 78, clinched the votes she needed late Wednesday after announcing support for a term limits deal that would allow her to serve as speaker for another four years. Seven dissident Democrats immediately said they would support her, paving the way for her election Jan. 3.

Former House majority leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) called it “a very typical performance by a really talented political figure.”

“The fact that she’s been speaker and will be speaker again is testimony to her enormous ability, her toughness, her off-the-charts work ethic, and her ability to interact with people and negotiate with people and come to a conclusion,” he said. “She works harder than any human being I’ve ever known.”…

The six-week battle over the speaker’s chair was vintage Pelosi. Relying on a mix of pressure tactics she’d sharpened during three decades in Congress, Pelosi waited out her critics, wore them down and then threw them a bone as they looked for a way out.

The group of anti-Pelosi rebels faced an uphill battle from the start. Pelosi maintained immense support within the caucus, and she had powerful allies outside Congress whipping for her. And opposition from the massive incoming class of freshmen wasn’t as strong as many had thought.

The rebels, meanwhile, wanted Pelosi gone — but that’s where their agreement ended. Her critics had different motivations for opposing her and different strategies for dethroning her. That discord ultimately weakened their hand during negotiations.

“People started to get cold feet and decided they didn’t want to do it. They were under a lot of pressure,” said a regretful Rep. Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.), a Pelosi critic who still plans to oppose her on the House floor. “The goal all along — until a week or two — was to get a new, younger generation speaker of the House that represented the country and the future of our party. That did not happen.”

The rebels did win a victory — just not the one they sought. Pelosi will be in the speaker’s chair in January, to the chagrin of most of Perlmutter’s group. She remains the face of the party and the new House Democratic majority and will become the most important Democrat in the nation, at least until the party anoints a presidential nominee…

Rep. Moulton is not a stupid person (he’d be a perfectly fine New England moderate Republican, if the breed still existed), so it is to be hoped he’s learned some valuable lessons from his premature stunt-challenge. (And soon, because right now there’s support for a primary challenge in 2020.) Nancy Pelosi is ‘Nancy Smash’ because she’s remembered the basic rule for success: Never promise what you can’t deliver, and always deliver what you’ve promised.

No wonder the Squatter-in-Chief is having a bad weekend…

135 replies
  1. 1
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Soon to be Speaker Pelosi is basically:

  2. 2
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    Nancy Pelosi needs to retire, when Nancy Pelosi wants to retire.

    That said, after saving the US from these Republican mobsters, she fully deserves at least some retirement time before her inevitable, though still tragic, demise at age 127.

  3. 3
    jl says:

    I think I read on this here very blog that one of the people Pelosi is grooming is Ted Lieu. How would he do as a follow-up?
    Anyone else?

  4. 4
    Ruckus says:

    I’m not as old as Nancy, but not that far behind. And I’d like a younger crew to fight for all of us because while this is my now, this is their future.
    But. And it’s a big, firm, round but, Nancy knows her job very well, is as progressive as the day is long and we’d be absolutely stupid to push her out because she’s old enough to be their grandma. Grandma gets shit done.

  5. 5
    Baud says:


    And I’d like a younger crew to fight for all of us

    Don’t read the early Iowa polls.

  6. 6
    Fair Economist says:

    Those are hysterical photoshops!

  7. 7
    Luthe says:

    @jl: I don’t know about his cat-herding skills, but he is awesome at social media, both in explaining policy and owning conservative idiots (but I repeat myself). If he does have cat-herding chops, he will make a fine Speaker.

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: He’d do very, very well. He’s a sharp person, excellent Staff Judge Advocate in the Reserves, and a very good member of Congress.

  9. 9
    Mnemosyne says:

    Totally non-political, but our youngest cat has been trying to entice the middle cat into playing with her, despite the middle cat’s hisses and growls.

    And yet when the youngest cat gave up and went into the kitchen for a snack, who followed her in a fit of “I will not be ignored!” pique? 😂

  10. 10
    A Ghost To Most says:

    January is coming.

  11. 11
    Ruckus says:

    Don’t know all that much about him but he seems to be a very proper candidate. It seems though that we have a number of new(ish) faces in the house that could fill the bill. The one’s who can’t are the ones still fighting Nancy. The guy from Oregon, Seth M from stupidville. They can’t see the future for their own power hungry desires. We don’t need them, especially trying to lead. They may actually be good democrats but the power play really should take them out of the running as speaker.

  12. 12
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: We’re 13 months or so from the Iowa caucuses. And 23 months from the next general election. I wouldn’t read too much into that poll.

  13. 13

    I love Wonkette.

    At press time, Pelosi was carving “Once and future boss OF YOUR FACE” into her desk with a pencil, because she can do what she wants and you can go eat dicks if you don’t like it.

  14. 14
    Fair Economist says:

    @jl: The problem is the primary qualification for the Speaker’s job is the ability to twist arms, to sweettalk, and to know which of those to do in any situation. Nobody outside the House is going to know how anybody is doing. If he replaces Hoyer or Clyburn you’ll know he’s doing well, but I don’t expect either of those to lose their jobs until they retire, because both represent significant factions in the House Caucus.

  15. 15
    oatler. says:

    But coprolites like Grassley never die.

  16. 16


    Don’t read the early Iowa polls.

    So Baud!2020!! is doing well in Iowa?

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m not.

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Less well now that Iowa Old Lady has moved to Illinois.

  18. 18
    sdhays says:

    I still marvel at how these numbskulls went into a leadership election without even one single candidate. The only “candidate” they ever had was someone who wasn’t originally part of their group and really just dipped her toe in, only to find the water scaldingly hot.

    Seriously, if you want “younger leadership”, then recruit a slate of candidates and mount an actual leadership bid. Prove to your colleagues that you have what it takes to actually lead the caucus and that you’re not just whiny-ass babies. If I were a Democratic Congressman, even if I didn’t like Pelosi, there’s no way in hell that I would have supported these clowns just because there was clearly nothing but butthurt powering them. They’re lazy, disorganized, and completely confused about the mood of their own caucus and supporters.

    If you want to replace Pelosi, prove that you CAN!

  19. 19
    AThornton says:

    The only thing presidential polling is telling us is name recognition.

  20. 20
    WaterGirl says:

    @Baud: Very glad to see you here again, Baud. I have been thinking about you all week.

  21. 21
  22. 22
    Ruckus says:

    Well they did elect 3 dems out of 4 reps. Don’t think that made up for #4 though.
    And I never pay attention to polls. When I tutored statistics in college a lot of my clients were good in math and didn’t understand why they couldn’t get statistics. Their first problem is that statistics uses math but is not a mathematical system. You design a system, which is you create the rules to get either the answer you want or the actual information. Without knowing the rules and the collected information, you really don’t know what you are seeing. Yes we need statistics in life because it’s too big and too random to deal with otherwise. But polls about people’s beliefs, which politics is, is not going to be all that helpful to predicting what those people will do, unless they are totally skewed in one way or another. Which doesn’t really help explain politics. CA is very blue. But we have some of the most republican reps in the house, some of whom got their asses handed to them. I imagine that a lot of Californians know individual 1 voters. I for sure know 2 and my circle is tiny.

  23. 23
    dnfree says:

    I like Adam Schiff and I don’t understand why he isn’t mentioned for leadership positions more often.

  24. 24
    debbie says:


    The younger crew can’t just step into the position. This is not a child’s game. They should latch onto the apprenticeship she’s offered.

    Having said that, Moulton deserves a very long career on the American equivalent of the back bench.

  25. 25
    Jackie says:

    I have full trust in Nancy SMASH having a handful of recruits she’ll groom and mentor to replace her when that time comes.

  26. 26
    Jay says:


    Moulton deserves a primary.

  27. 27
    p.a. says:

    The breadth and depth of this admin’s corruption may mean we, and the current D leadership, will get a good chance to see who the effective future leaders seem to be. There will have to be a lot of delegation of responsibility to rein in then clean up this current shitstain. Also too, unfortunately, lots of opportunities for grandstanding Wilmerism.

  28. 28
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @dnfree: Agreed. But that does not seem to be a popular pick.

  29. 29
    SFAW says:

    I think I noted it a few days ago, but in that Glob article, the picture of Moulton looks more than a bit like Devin Nunes.

  30. 30
    Platonailedit says:

    Sir, in mobster lingo, a ‘rat’ is a witness who tells prosecutors real incriminating info. Perhaps a different word? Searches of lawyer’s offices common enough that DOJ has a procedure for them. Here it yielded evidence of crimes you said he should be jailed for. You should stop.— Andy McCarthy (@AndrewCMcCarthy) December 16, 2018

    He is apparently a totus turd defender.

  31. 31
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Salted shortbread day. I made the salted shortbread chocolate chunk cookies from the NYT that were a thing earlier this year, and the salted shortbread pistachio cookies that are in this year’s NYT Christmas cookie recipes.

    Verdict: the pistachio ones are easy to make (other than having to shell the nuts) and are very good. The chocolate ones are supposedly the author’s alternate take on chocolate chip cookies, and I’m not convinced. They’re tasty, but they’re more difficult to make and I’m not sure the increased difficulty gives you that much. It’s a rolled and cut cookie, as opposed to a spooned/drop cookie, and it’s incredibly difficult to cut through a chilled dough log with big chunks of chocolate in it without having every other cookie fall to pieces before you even get it in the oven. Plus you’re supposed to brush it with egg and roll in coarse sugar before cutting, which means your hands are coated with an egg-sugar mix making it hard to handle the unbaked cookies.

  32. 32
    Platonailedit says:

    You get what you voted for.

    About 10,000 people have rallied in Hungary’s capital Budapest against new labour laws, which have been labelled “slave” legislation by opponents.

    The crowds marched towards parliament and the state TV headquarters, in what was the fourth and largest protest since the laws were passed last week.

    Police fired tear gas to disperse protesters near the TV station.

    New rules mean companies can demand up to 400 hours of overtime a year and delay payment for it for three years.

    The government of Prime Minister Viktor Orban says the labour reform will benefit workers as well as companies who need to fill a labour shortage.

    The event was dubbed “Happy Xmas Prime Minister”. Mr Orban is seen by his opponents as becoming increasingly authoritarian.

    The prime minister denies the claim.

  33. 33
    Corner Stone says:


    I think I noted it a few days ago, but in that Glob article, the picture of Moulton looks more than a bit like Devin Nunes.

    He reminds me more of a slightly slimmer Erick Erickson.

  34. 34
    rikyrah says:

    Ted Lieu has NFTG.

  35. 35
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @Platonailedit: he was also a birther and a huge fan of Caribou Barbie.

  36. 36
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @Jackie: I have full trust in Nancy SMASH having a handful of recruits she’ll groom and mentor to replace her when that time comes.

    me too.

  37. 37
    rikyrah says:

    Absolutely 👏👏

  38. 38
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    It’s ironic how a few years ago some thought Moulton was presidential material. Now that he’s shown his true colors, I doubt he’s going to be more than a US Rep now. He may even lose that if he’s successfully primaried in two years.

    What a bunch of fools to oppose Pelosi. Now wasn’t the time for that kind of shit. I also agree with those saying it’s ridiculous to kneecap Pelosi because of her age.

  39. 39
    Corner Stone says:


    I have full trust in Nancy SMASH having a handful of recruits she’ll groom and mentor to replace her when that time comes.

    People keep repeating this. But she has said she would probably have retired if HRC won the presidency. At that point, who had she groomed to take over and step in? Hoyer and Clyburn?

  40. 40
    dmsilev says:

    Something …weird landed in my email inbox just now. Unlike many of the other weird emails I’ve gotten, this one came as part of the nightly set of new posts to the physics preprint service (, which is a repository for new and by-and-large-serious research. There are exceptions….

    Title: Possible superconductivity in brain

    The unprecedented power of the brain suggests that it may process information quantum-mechanically. Since quantum processing is already achieved in superconducting quantum computers, it may imply that superconductivity is the basis of quantum computation in brain too. Superconductivity could also be responsible for long-term memory. Following these ideas, the paper reviews the progress in the search for superconductors with high critical temperature and tries to answer the question about the superconductivity in brain. It focuses on recent electrical measurements of brain slices, in which graphene was used as a room-temperature quantum mediator, and argues that these measurements could be interpreted as providing evidence of superconductivity in the neural network of mammalian brains. The estimated critical temperature of superconducting network in brain is rather high: 2063 plus-minus 114 K. A similar critical temperature was predicted in the Little’s model for one-dimensional organic chains linked to certain molecular complexes. A reasonable suggestion is that superconductivity develops in microtubules inside the neurons of brain.

    Basically goes off the rails right at the beginning, and then goes downhill from there.

  41. 41
    sgrAstar says:

    @Gin & Tonic: there is no improvement to be made on the original chocolate chip cookie recipe. None.

  42. 42
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    I think Mr. Orban needs to be removed from power.

  43. 43
    dmsilev says:

    @Corner Stone: Look at committee chairs/ranking members, not just the central leadership. That’s especially true now since the chances of passing serious legislation over the next few years (Senate, plus Trump’s veto) are basically nil, so all of the action is going to be in committee investigations.

  44. 44
    Ruckus says:

    Exactly my point, you just made it in far fewer words.
    Grandma gets shit done, because she’s learned how over the years. The youngsters haven’t.

  45. 45
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    I’m not well-versed in physics, though I have an interest in that field, in a popular sense, but why can’t the brain process information quantum mechanically?

  46. 46
    Mnemosyne says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    I suspect that Schiff wants to run for Feinstein’s seat in the Senate when she finally retires. At least, I hope he does.

    He’s slightly on the more conservative side when it comes to economics (meaning that he likes to be “business-friendly”) so he’s probably not a great fit for House leadership right now, and is smart enough to know it.

  47. 47
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @dmsilev: Oh haha! Care to provide a pointer to the original article? Just for giggles? Here’s one in exchange: Are We Quantum Computers?

    Much has been made of quantum computing processes using ultracold atoms and ions, superconducting junctions and defects in diamonds, but could we be performing them in our own brains?

    It’s a question UC Santa Barbara theoretical physicist Matthew Fisher has been asking for years. Now, as scientific director of the new Quantum Brain Project (QuBrain), he is seeking to put this inquiry through rigorous experimental tests. [….] Fisher, a world-renowned expert in the field of quantum mechanics, has identified a precise — and unique — set of biological components and key mechanisms that could provide the basis for quantum processing in the brain. With $1.2 million in grant funding over three years from the Heising-Simons Foundation, Fisher will launch the QuBrain collaboration at UCSB. Composed of an international team of leading scientists spanning quantum physics, molecular biology, biochemistry, colloid science and behavioral neuroscience, the project will seek explicit experimental evidence to answer whether we might in fact be quantum computers.

    HAHAHA. The guy parted some family foundation from $1.2m, and he’s gonna SPEND IT! Love that shit!

  48. 48
    Chetan Murthy says:


    Schiff wants to run for Feinstein’s seat

    Amen. Amen.

  49. 49
    Ruckus says:

    Me thinks someone may have smoked something before typing that out. Maybe a lot of something.

  50. 50
    TS (the original) says:

    A women in politics doesn’t have to be twice as good as a man – she has to be 10 times as good – and still the little twerps deny her skills. While Ms Pelosi does her job, trump bemoans his fate – and the media still give him less angst than they give any woman who dares to be outstanding.

  51. 51
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @sgrAstar: Interestingly, someone once ran an analysis – with the original recipe – of letting it sit for 12, 24 and 36 hours before baking and found that the flavor gets noticeably better if the dough sits longer.

  52. 52
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Electric carving knife.

  53. 53
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @sgrAstar: Adding, this is a different recipe, for a different cookie. It is worth trying. I’m not yet sure it’s worth repeating. But the note at the end is at least realistic: it says after baking, allow to cool slightly before eating them all.

  54. 54
    Ruckus says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    It would never have lasted 12 hrs in my house without an armed guard. Hell mom alone wouldn’t have lasted 24 hrs.

  55. 55
    Corner Stone says:

    @dmsilev: Sure, after the blue wave of 2018. We’ll see some new outsourced leadership. But that ignores what would have happened in 2016 ish.

  56. 56
    Adam L Silverman says:


    Mr Orban is seen by his opponents as becoming increasingly authoritarian.

    Ya think?

    This is classic national-syndicalism.

  57. 57
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t have one. Given the crumbliness of the unbaked dough, I’m not sure that would be enough. But I’m not going to buy one just for this.

  58. 58
    smike says:

    Since these challengers to Pelosi’s leadership showed zero leadership ability, or even ability to plan and build alliances, they really showed their asses. I feel they fancy themselves as rulers, but they fail by relying on their own perceived abilities.

  59. 59
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Ruckus: That’s the universal comment on that study. When you want fresh cookies, you want them today, not the day after tomorrow.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:


    Following these ideas, the paper reviews the progress in the search for superconductors with high critical temperature and tries to answer the question about the superconductivity in brain.

    Does this explain why my head sweats a lot when I work out? Because I often use gym time as a way to let things I’m working on analytically process in the background while I’m trying to rip muscles off my bones in the foreground.//

  61. 61
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @sgrAstar: Just make sure you’re using 1/2 dark brown and 1/2 light brown sugar.

  62. 62
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’ve been wanting to make some chocolate chip cookies for Christmas this year. Lots of people have been getting those Nestle Toll House dough slabs. I’m gonna snag me one.

    Speaking of which, has anyone tried making those recipes that are on the sides of stuff you buy at the grocery store?

  63. 63
    dmsilev says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Several things. For starters, saying “the brain is a quantum computer” is something you have to justify, not just assert. Everything we know about quantum computers suggest that they work only when highly isolated from the messy outside world, and the brain is hardly an isolated environment. Conventional understanding most certainly could be wrong, but a bald assertion to the contrary isn’t going to do the trick. Moving onwards to the second sentence, some quantum computers are based on superconducting systems. Many more are not. The statement “quantum, therefore superconducting” is again a logical leap which needs support. I can’t comment on what ‘graphene was used as a room-temperature quantum mediator’ means (I’m also not convinced the author knows what that phrase means either), but in general most of the interesting quantum effects in electronic transport in graphene are seen at cryogenic temperatures. Also, 2063 K for a superconducting transition temperature isn’t just “rather high”, it’s over a factor of ten higher than anything we’ve ever observed, which spikes the bullshit meter. The paper itself spends a lot of time pointing out every time it references a piece of work that won a Nobel, again a sign of trouble.

    TLDR: A lot of grandiose claims with dubious supporting evidence, all of which have to pan out in order for the thing to make sense.

  64. 64
    Suzanne says:

    @jl: I hope that’s true, because I think Ted Lieu is fabulous, and I hope he has a long and successful career in leadership.

  65. 65
    SFAW says:

    @Corner Stone:

    He reminds me more of a slightly slimmer Erick Erickson.

    Hmm. Can’t really disagree.

  66. 66
    dmsilev says:

    @Adam L Silverman: No, because if your brain was superconducting, thinking hard wouldn’t generate heat.

  67. 67
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Making chocolate chip cookies according to the recipe on the Toll House bag is about the easiest thing one can do in the kitchen short of boiling water.

    recipes that are on the sides of stuff you buy at the grocery store

    I’m looking for a recipe on the side of this butternut squash but I can’t find one. These oranges don’t have any recipes on them either. Where do you shop?

  68. 68
    JanieM says:

    Okay, so the tags include “Open Thread” and the following quote (from the OP, quoting wonkette) gives me a chance to express my inner grammar nerditude without having to nitpick the comments of any BJ jackals:

    (Presumably, this gives her a chance to finish grooming whomever is best suited to take her spot.)

    It should be “whoever is best suited to take her spot.” In grammar nerd terms, the pronoun takes the case that fits its role within the clause. It is not the object of “grooming” but the subject of “is.”

    /pet peeve pedantry

  69. 69
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m looking for a recipe on the side of this butternut squash

    Thai pumpkin curry. With or without chicken. That. Is. All.

  70. 70
    Wapiti says:

    I have a nephew who seriously hates to eat anything with nuts in it. I made toll house cookies, substituting 1c of rolled oats for the 1c of nuts, and the cookies came out very good. Not too oaty, and nicely moist. (I also use a mix of semi-sweet and dark chocolate chips, 3/4c of each.)

  71. 71
    trollhattan says:

    Love Schiff. Smart, experienced and accepts no Republican malarkey, to borrow the Bidenism.

  72. 72
    Jackie says:

    @Corner Stone: Well, now we’ll never know 😉 I honestly think there’s always been “a plan.”

  73. 73
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Maybe you’re buying a different brand of squash. Mine have no recipes.

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Okay. What if you roll the dough out into a sheet and use a ring cookie cutter?

  75. 75
    dm says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: There’s some good evidence for quantum activity in the nervous system. Luca Turin thinks of sense of smell works due to measuring quantum resonances of odor molecules, with good experimental evidence to back it up.

    And, of course, Roger Penrose is completely sold on quantum effects being part of consciousness, but I’ve not read him.

    I’ll pass on superconductivity in the brain, though.

  76. 76
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I get the GMO kind. The skin is a cookbook!

  77. 77
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Just use the recipe I posted here a while back. It’s easy to do, doesn’t take too long. Just remember to refrigerate the dough before your spoon it out onto the cookie sheet.

  78. 78
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s a shortbread dough, so it’s too “stiff” for that, I think. And a key part of it is the egg wash and rolling in demerara sugar before cutting the rounds, which gives you a very crisp edge. Maybe if I freeze the logs after the sugar coating.

  79. 79
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    Thanks! I also looked up the superconducting thing and knew it was complete bullshit.

    The premise is interesting, but it sounds crazy otherwise. Is this the guy who got 1.2 million from that family foundation to do research that Chet referenced, btw? Do you think he really believes this or is he just grifting?

  80. 80
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:

    Is this the guy who got 1.2 million from that family foundation to do research that Chet referenced

    Doubt it. The guy I linked-to is a theoretical physicist. Just lookin’ for $$ AFAICT.

  81. 81
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dmsilev: But would it generate light?//

  82. 82
    coin operated says:


    Love Schiff. Smart, experienced and accepts no Republican malarkey

    I was soooo happy to hear he will be chair at Intelligence. Hope he puts Nunes thru the wringer for all the crap he pulled

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: They changed the recipe a bit about ten or fifteen years ago. It should be 2 cups and 2 tablespoons of flour, not whatever they currently state in the recipe. And make sure to mix the brown sugar – 1/2 cup dark and 1/2 cup light. The recipe on the package only states: 1 cup brown sugar.

  84. 84
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Oh, here’s a link:

    I’m not a physicist, so I can’t judge the guy’s reputation. But I think if he’s on the level, we should see a bunch of citations of his work, and reproductions, from reputable labs. Uh, obvs. over time. Give it a year.

  85. 85
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Wapiti: Just leaves the nuts out completely. They’re an optional add in. I highly recommend using the Guittard dark chocolate baking chips. They come in the red bag.

  86. 86
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m looking for a recipe on the side of this butternut squash but I can’t find one. These oranges don’t have any recipes on them either. Where do you shop?

    Cheeky. I meant on the sides of the cans and packages.

    I once thought chestnuts were rocks. I’d never seen any before. Also the butternut squash totally looks phallic.

  87. 87
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I think if you freeze them, that should work. Then a very sharp carving knife and you should be good to go. Might need something with a little weight to it, like a Chinese cleaver or a santoku.

  88. 88
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @JanieM: I’ll pass this on to Evan tomorrow so he can come up with a scalding response.

  89. 89
    Ken says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:

    I meant on the sides of the cans and packages.

    Several, but could you be more specific? If you mean cookies, I always use the recipe on the chocolate morsels bag. I also like the marshmallow creme recipe for fudge.

    Anyone else old enough to remember the classic Usenet recipe for mock apple pie, which was “found lurking on the back of a Ritz Crackers box”? Never tried that one.

  90. 90
    Platonailedit says:

    @coin operated:

    Hope he puts Nunes thru the wringer for all the crap he pulled

    Can, and more importantly, will a cong critter put a fellow cong critter thru the wringer? I doubt it.

  91. 91
    Ruckus says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Today was usually not soon enough.
    The words right fucking now seem appropriate. Not in moms presence sure but still appropriate. Although later in life she may have actually thought that, even if she wouldn’t say it.

  92. 92
    divF says:

    @Chetan Murthy:
    This reminds me of what you used to get from the LaRouchites, who in the 1970’s used to hang out at the airport and peddle their crank literature, including something called Fusion Magazine. One of my housemates brought a copy home for me, because of the cover article “Riemann’s Contributions to Flight”, the title of which actually sounded not insane. However, the pattern in all the articles was a few paragraphs that sounded like science, then the discussion would quickly digress to somewhere out beyond the orbit of Pluto. All using science terminology, but the actual content was gibberish, and was mixed in with large helpings of political paranoia (think of the Second Law of thermodynamics as a CIA plot to mislead us about the true potential for inertial confinement fusion).

  93. 93
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I’ll have to look that one up. Don’t forget to never eat the cookie dough.

  94. 94
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I have a really heavy cleaver-like knife I bought at the central market in Hanoi – I could take down small trees with it.

  95. 95
    coin operated says:


    Can, and more importantly, will a cong critter put a fellow cong critter thru the wringer? I doubt it.

    Schiff has NFLTG. He’s not afraid of Trump one bit…if he decides to go after Nunes, I see him becoming a smudge on the political highway. Lots of dirty dealing to expose.

  96. 96
    Viva BrisVegas says:


    I can’t recall the source, but I remember hearing that the main reason that Trump has so far avoided jail in his career was his propensity to rat his out colleagues whenever the scam got too hot.

    This is guy who knows all about ratting out others.

  97. 97
    Steeplejack says:


    Good, clear explanation of a murky point.

  98. 98
    Gin & Tonic says:


    (think of the Second Law of thermodynamics as a CIA plot to mislead us about the true potential for inertial confinement fusion)

    Huh. I had never considered that. The Deep State is everywhere, I see.

  99. 99
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:


    I saw there was a recipe on a can of Campbell’s Cream of Mushroom soup once. That’s what me ask this question. I was just wondering if the recipes actually worked.

  100. 100
    Yarrow says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I’ve bought both acorn and butternut squash that had big stickers on them with instructions on how to prepare them. It really wash squash for dummies.

  101. 101
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Those recipes have been extensively tested and are pretty much guaranteed to work. Whether they produce something you’d want to eat is a different question.

    Thinking now of some old threads with Omnes and efgoldman sharing some 1950’s recipes…

  102. 102
  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: That’s a machete.

  104. 104
    Yarrow says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Hope both are okay. Haven’t seen either around much.

  105. 105
    JanieM says:

    @Steeplejack: Thanks. :-)

    Who/whom forms trip people up a lot…’s overcorrection, anxiety about formality, I dunno. Years ago I would have predicted that if anything, it would be the “whom” forms that would would eventually disappear. It’s weird that instead of disappearing they seem to be taking over.

  106. 106
    Yarrow says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Those recipes are well tested and should work fine. They are trying to sell you their canned or packaged food item, so the recipe may not be all that good for you. Many prepared foods like that aren’t. Other brand name ingredients are often included in the recipe because those items are owned by the same food company and they’re trying to get you to buy those too. You don’t have to use the brand name ingredients.

  107. 107
    Chetan Murthy says:


    Anyone else old enough to remember the classic Usenet recipe

    Ahhhh … and the Usenet Cookbook? [I used to make their pancake recipe *all* the time]
    And the Mrs. Field’s cookie recipe that came with GNU Emacs source? HA!

  108. 108
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Thanks! I think I’ll try them sometime.

  109. 109
    Steeplejack says:


    Only in certain situations. In (for example) TV dialogue and real-life conversations, questions similar to the form “And gave it to who?” are almost ubiquitous.

    A worse (as in unnecessary) overcorrection occurs in constructions like “That made no difference to her and I.” Nobody ever says, “That made no difference to I,” but put another person in there and me leaves the room.

  110. 110
    KSinMA says:

    @JanieM: Yes! As in “Let him who is without sin …”

    (More pedant)

  111. 111
    JanieM says:

    @Steeplejack: Yes, that’s true. I wonder if maybe they’ll just flip! ;-)

    In some situations “who” for “whom” doesn’t bother me, although your example would. On the other hand, “whom” for “who” invariably affects me like fingernails on a chalkboard.

  112. 112
    Amir Khalid says:

    From what I can follow of it, that reads like genius-level nuttiness.

  113. 113
    Steeplejack says:


    it’s not clear to me which side you’re coming down on, but I believe “Let him who is without sin [cast the first stone]” is correct. “Who is without sin” is just an adjective phrase modifying him, and if you take it out the sentence would be “Let him cast the first stone,” not “Let he cast the first stone.”

    I think people muddle this because they truncate the original Bible phrasing, which is (John 8:7):

    So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

  114. 114
    Redshift says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Green bean casserole (a staple of holiday dinners at my mom’s and many other households) was created for the Campbell’s soup company. I’ve always liked it. I suspect most such recipes work reasonably well, since they don’t want you to regret buying the product.

  115. 115
    Redshift says:


    Anyone else old enough to remember the classic Usenet recipe for mock apple pie, which was “found lurking on the back of a Ritz Crackers box”? Never tried that one.

    Heck, I remember way before Usenet, when the recipe was actually on the Ritz cracker box. Never tried it either, but the idea certainly was memorable.

  116. 116
    Redshift says:


    Can, and more importantly, will a cong critter put a fellow cong critter thru the wringer? I doubt it.

    Within the committee, probably not, though they probably won’t have much trouble making him look like an idiot if he actually speaks up in hearings he doesn’t control. I’m more hopeful about the potential of an ethics investigation.

  117. 117
    frosty says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: I’ve made stuff on the cans of Bush’s Beans. They turned out pretty good. Same with Goya’s recipes. You can get them all online if you’re ambitious, I like rice and beans, so I did.

  118. 118
    Jay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Not frozen.

    Ice crystals will cause the dough to “flake”, break off in chunks.

    You want “almost frozen” to slice.

  119. 119
    Bonnie says:

    Now, I am looking forward to President Nancy after Trump and Pence are run out town. What a great idea!

  120. 120
    Platonailedit says:


    ethics investigation.

    Yup, that’s the way to nail that traitorous scum.

  121. 121
    someguy says:


    Having said that, Moulton deserves a very long career on the American equivalent of the back bench.

    wtf up with MA Dems?????????????

    two words: primary donations

  122. 122
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Oh haha! Care to provide a pointer to the original article? Just for giggles? Here’s one in exchange: Are We Quantum Computers?

    I liked this bit:

    “However likely you judge Matthew Fisher’s hypothesis, by testing it through QuBrain’s collaborative research approach we will explore neuronal function with state-of-the-art technology from completely new angles and with enormous potential for discovery,” said Fromme.

    Translation: Fisher’s idea is an irredeemable brainfart, but it will result in people throwing lots of someone else’s money around, and this is something I approve of.

  123. 123
    SWMBO says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Since it’s the holiday and lots of folks are making pies, here’s an oldie but goodie.

    Heat is the enemy of a good pie crust. If you have a marble or plastic dough roller (filled with water) put it in the fridge overnight. Use ice water as cold as possible. Use all purpose flour. Don’t overwork the dough. Roll out one crust at a time and set the excess aside for later.

    I make a double deep dish crust. This make 3 deep dish pies and leaves enough left over to roll out, cover with melted butter, brown sugar/cinnamon, roll it up and butter the outside of it. Put in aluminum foil and bake when you bake the pie.

  124. 124
    Aleta says:

    @Gin & Tonic: re @Jay: I also wonder if using a big blade on hard frozen dough would affect the delicateness of the shortbread dough. (Maybe it doesn’t matter or maybe this cookie dough isn’t the same as Scottish shortbread.)

    But… I remember this Scotch friend of my mother’s who made the most amazing shortbread every Christmas. He said it was all in the way he mixed it (by hand). In my mind I think it would need to be not too rough or thoroughly mixed, so as not to smash up the butter into the flour too much. Maybe it’s not the same for your recipe … but if it is, a less ‘destructive’ knife ? Serrated or wavy like a sharp bread knife or tomato knife? I got no actual clue of course.

  125. 125
    SWMBO says:

    @Redshift: My aunts used to make this. It was actually pretty good.

  126. 126
    Ken Lovell says:

    If you’re gonna get a new, younger generation speaker of the House that represents the country and the future of the party, step #1 is pretty obviously to find someone who’ll put their hand up to be the new, younger generation speaker of the House that represents the country and the future of the party. I’m surprised Kurt Schrader didn’t realise that.

  127. 127
    Aleta says:

    As the bride and groom crossed the threshold a decorated shortbread (called the ‘Bride’s Bonn) was broken over their heads.
    Shortbread is also still one of the foods offered to ‘first-footers’ (those going door to door on Hogmanay to welcome in the New Year).

    (My mother’s/grandmother’s Scotch friend did this — when we called on him around Christmas/New Year’s we were invited into his kitchen and given his (famous) fresh made shortbread.

  128. 128
    David Evans says:

    In summary, I think the Speaker after Pelosi should be a superconducting quantum mechanical AI.

  129. 129
    Aleta says:

    Shetland Bride’s Bonn/Bun or Bridal Cake

    Shetland bride’s bonn/bun or bridal cake was traditionally baked by the mother of the bride. It was broken over the bride’s head as she entered the marital home after the wedding ceremony and was intended to bless the marriage with prosperity and fertility. This breaking of cake was a wedding tradition observed in many parts of the country, and indeed is also a feature in the wedding traditions of other countries.

    In Shetland, the bride’s bonn/bun was also known historically as either infar-cake or dreaming-bread. F. Marian McNeill has a note regarding infar-cake or dreaming-bread:

    ‘A decorated form of shortbread is still [1929] the national bride’s-cake of rural Scotland, and was formerly used as infar-cake. The breaking of infar-cake over the head of the bride, on the threshold of her new home, is a very ancient custom, having its origin in the Roman rite of confarratio, in which the eating of a consecrated cake by the contracting parties constituted marriage. (Scots law, unlike English, is based on the old Roman Law.)

    Portions were distributed to the young men and maidens “to dream on”.’

    At christening feasts a dreaming-bread may also be distributed to guests, for the same purpose of giving maids and young men a sneak preview of their future partner – dreaming-bread is also known as dumb-cake.

    Although Shetland Bride’s Bonn is generally classified as a shortbread, when cooked on a girdle (griddle), as it would have been historically, it is closer in form to a  bannock or scone. When oven-baked the bonn would be crisper and more biscuit-like.

    My recipe comes from ‘A Cook’s Tour of Britain‘, by the Woman’s Institute and Michael Smith (pub. 1984), and I have gone with the girdle cooking option.

    110g/4 oz. plain flour
50g/2 oz. butter

    25g/1 oz. caster sugar

    1/2 teaspoon of caraway seeds
    little milk

    1. Rub the butter into the flour.
    2. Add the sugar and caraway seeds.
    3. Mix to a stiff consistency with milk (get your hands in the bowl to achieve this, and add only a little milk at a time – start with a generous splash).
    4. Roll out into a round shape. Now at this point the book suggests that you roll a round 5cm/2 inches thick, but this is way too thick for this small quantity of dough, plus it would never cook in the time given. My dough was about 2cm thick. Cut the round shape into triangles.
    5. Bake on a fairly hot girdle for 3 minutes on each side, or in an oven at 180C/350F/Gas 4 for 20 minutes.

    (From A Taste of Scotland)

    The way Scottish shortbread is decorated is symbolic and traditional.

    The edges of the circular shortbreads are decorated by pinching with the thumb and forefinger, or making cut-marks with a knife, and it’s believed that this is a nod towards the Scots early sun-worshipping days as these pinched edges symbolize the sun’s rays.

  130. 130
    Chris Johnson says:

    Note: do NOT use dwarf bread as bridal cake…

  131. 131
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Steny Hoyer is older and much more conservative than Pelosi and had no challenge whatsoever.

    Schumer fucking sucks and ditto.

    This was never about ideology, age, or effectiveness.

  132. 132
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Chetan Murthy: You sure that’s not the “Heisting Samolians” Foundation? Sure sounds like the academic equivalent of smash&grab to me.

  133. 133
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Chetan Murthy: “Mock apple pie” reminds me of the Turkish carpet shops’ staple beverage for tourists, elma çayı – “apple tea” that is by & large not tea & contains nothing applish.

  134. 134
    Tarragon says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:
    The best pasta with clam sauce recipe we have comes from the side of a box of pasta.

    I usually try the recipes on the packaging as I figure companies have huge incentives to make those recipes good so that you’ll keep buying their product. In this particular case it didn’t work. I kept the recipe but have no idea which company it came from.

    ETA: So seasonal right!?

  135. 135
    Aardvark Cheeselog says:


    Lieu has definitely been making the right noises to make me notice him.

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