Lying liar necessitates new WaPo fact-checker category

The Post debuted a new fact-check category today in an attempt to capture the unprecedented fire-hose volume of repeat lies coming out of Trump’s lie-hole. They call it the “Bottomless Pinocchio” category:

Trump’s willingness to constantly repeat false claims has posed a unique challenge to fact-checkers. Most politicians quickly drop a Four-Pinocchio claim, either out of a duty to be accurate or concern that spreading false information could be politically damaging.

Not Trump. The president keeps going long after the facts are clear, in what appears to be a deliberate effort to replace the truth with his own, far more favorable, version of it. He is not merely making gaffes or misstating things, he is purposely injecting false information into the national conversation.

To accurately reflect this phenomenon, The Washington Post Fact Checker is introducing a new category — the Bottomless Pinocchio. That dubious distinction will be awarded to politicians who repeat a false claim so many times that they are, in effect, engaging in campaigns of disinformation.

To qualify as a Bottomless Pinocchio, the lie must have been repeated at least 20 times since receiving a 3- or 4-Pinocchio rating from The Post. Glenn Kessler, WaPo’s chief fact-checker, says 14 of Trump’s lies already qualify.

The failure of the mainstream press to adjust the way it covers presidencies in the wake of the election of a pathologically lying stooge of a foreign autocrat has been nothing short of calamitous, IMO. The Bottomless Pinocchio isn’t a serious enough change, but it’s a start since it at least acknowledges the unprecedented nature of this maladministration and its liar-in-chief.






253 replies
  1. 1
    Chyron HR says:

    “I call on my followers to exterminate the Globalist filth! Kill them! KILL THEM ALL!!!”
    “The Washington Post editorial board awards that tweet a super frowny face. :(”

    We did it, guys, America is saved.

  2. 2

    LOL Betty. I was just thinking of posting this and then checked back.

  3. 3
    Jerzy Russian says:

    They could say “lie” instead of “repeating false claims “. It would be a good start, at least.

  4. 4
    Brachiator says:

    Ah, Monday! Starting another day in the Trump Place.

    The failure of the mainstream press to adjust the way it covers presidencies in the wake of the election of a pathologically lying stooge of a foreign autocrat has been nothing short of calamitous, IMO.

    I am not sure that anyone or any institution has adjusted well.

    I agree that this is not good. But what may be worst of all is that a sad chunk of the nation don’t care or are willing to ride the same boat of denial that Trump pilots.

  5. 5
    satby says:

    @Chyron HR: @Jerzy Russian: yeah, pretty half-assed attempt to tiptoe toward the truth.
    And WaPo probably thinks this is brave of them.

  6. 6
    Elizabelle says:

    Good to see this.

    Friend just pointed me to another WaPost story today:

    Europe: The new autocrats
    Leaders are turning democracy into a tool of oppression

    Haven’t read it, but will eventually today, and see how our Tanning Bed Traitor stacks up.

    The firehose of lies is certainly a tactic. [Further] Undermining norms and democratic institutions. We can beat this. It will be hard. But we have to.

  7. 7
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Trump’s presidency is truly unique in the depths he’s willing to plumb to protect himself. He’s not even pretending to care about the concerns of this country which he has taken an oath to protect from all enemies — internal and external.

    I feel sorry for the Democratic President who follows him and has to clean up all this mess.

  8. 8
    Aleta says:

    My reflexive thought, why decide to do this now, instead of earlier? Reflexive answers—afraid to do it before the election because of accusations of fairness? Or is it because the report has begun to come out? The lying has been named elsewhere. And their job is to report through the storm they think is coming, and this tool will help them do that.
    I’m overthinking it probably.

  9. 9

    Would have been helpful in the runup to the Iraq war.

    Why anyone in the media thinks Trump’s blatant lying is something new rather than just a more blatant version of what we’ve already seen, and what they aided and abetted, is beyond me.

  10. 10
    Aleta says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I swear I believe the Republican formula for presidency is plunder and burn as much as possible in 4-8 years, then turn it over to the Dems for the blame to fall on their watch.

  11. 11
    satby says:

    @Brachiator: I had a sadly fascinating talk with the old RWNJ who has a booth next to me in the market. We were crabbing about the market downturn (he’s lost multiple thousands more than I even have) and still wanted to give credit to Drumpf for “letting the Chinese know he was serious”. I pointed out that if the Chinese ever cashed in all their T-Bill investments this country would go bust pretty quickly… Which led to a discussion about SS (stay with me, the SS surplus is invested in T-Bills). RWNJ said it would all be fine if Congress didn’t continually raid SS coffers. I said they can’t, and that was misinformation, and showed him proof online via the AARP.
    He said he wondered if Fox news knew that because they never say that. I told him of course the Fox news people knew that already, they lie about it.
    These people are horribly brainwashed.

  12. 12
    Cermet says:

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA): Be careful; people here at BJ don’t want to hear that some others were far worse than (or is it then?) the orange fart cloud.

  13. 13
    daveNYC says:

    Bottomless Pinocchio is weak. Minitrue is like right there.

  14. 14
    SFAW says:

    I’ve said more than a couple of times: run the above-the-fold — hell, the entire front page if needed — stories with a “Trump Lied About THIS Today” lede, and make Shitgibbon prove that he didn’t lie.

    The only problem I can see is that, unless they instituted a counter, rather than a story for each, it would push all other news off the front page.

  15. 15
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    I recently re-watched the old Fred Friendly series “Ethics in America” produced and aired back in 1988-1989 on PBS. It’s fascinating to see how things have changed since then, even among some of the same actors who were on the shows.
    It makes for interesting viewing if you’ve never seen it before.

  16. 16
    satby says:

    @Cermet: it’s not that we don’t want to hear it, we just think it’s kind of a stupid contest to argue about. They’re both horrible.

  17. 17
    Aleta says:

    @satby: Refreshing to hear about this skirmish and win.

  18. 18
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @Cermet: What you say is unimportant, and we do not hear your words.

  19. 19
    trnc says:

    @Jerzy Russian: What’s the difference between a lie and a false claim?

  20. 20
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    My nym. Over and over again.

    Wipe them out. All of them.

  21. 21
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @SFAW:

    and make Shitgibbon prove that he didn’t lie.

    That’s the rub. Shitgibbon doesn’t prove anything, he just keeps lying. He’s taken Goebbels to heart.

  22. 22
    victory says:

    We can add this to “Zombie Lies”

  23. 23
    Wapiti says:

    In view of the smocking gun tweet, I’ve decided to call the guy Donild Turnip. I won’t be offended if the WAPO does something similar.

  24. 24
    trnc says:

    @satby:

    He said he wondered if Fox news knew that because they never say that.

    Gold star for getting a DT supporter to question Fux news.

  25. 25
    SFAW says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:

    Shitgibbon doesn’t prove anything,

    Understood. I was thinking more of the inevitable whining and puling Shitgibbon will do when enough of the MSM repeatedly calls him a liar.

    “Don’t like it, Fuckhead? Prove that we’re wrong. Until then, stop whining like a not-too-smart two-year-old!” Maybe he would blow a gasket — but only after Dense gets indicted or resigns.

  26. 26
    Comrade Scrutinizer says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: I really, really miss Media Whores Online.

  27. 27
    Jerzy Russian says:

    @trnc: A liar is a bad person, whereas someone who “repeated a false claim” might not be such a bad person after all. Perhaps they did not know it was false, for example.

  28. 28
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Supreme Court sides with Planned Parenthood on state funding case.

    ETA to be clear, they declined the case.

  29. 29
    Snarki, child of Loki says:

    Wapo should just run a big LIAR over Trump’s photo, every time they publish it.

  30. 30
    trnc says:

    @Jerzy Russian: Good point. Tx.

  31. 31
    Brachiator says:

    @satby:

    I pointed out that if the Chinese ever cashed in all their T-Bill investments this country would go bust pretty quickly…

    This fear is overblown, but I take your point about Social Security, and think I saw a similar story recently via the Motley Fool or some other financial news site.

    But I don’t think that most right wingers have been brainwashed. They embrace Fox News because they want the lies. They need the lies because it confirms what they want to believe.

  32. 32
    trnc says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Do I understand correctly that Bart sided with the majority?

  33. 33
    chopper says:

    @Cermet:

    wow, i rolled my eyes so hard they hurt now.

  34. 34
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby:

    RWNJ said it would all be fine if Congress didn’t continually raid SS coffers.

    I have heard that same lie repeated here and rebutted it as you did. It’s kind of amazing how many people have fallen for that lie.

  35. 35
    Elizabelle says:

    Top of the hour NPR newscast, first 10 seconds:

    “Democrats are worrying about how to respond to Trump allegations.”

    “Worrying.” Implies: Because they’re so damned cowardly and feckless. Yes, it’s fucking Mara Fox News Liasson.

    “Worry of a political backlash if they impeach the President.” Stuff it, Mara.

    Anyway, big article in WaPo this weekend: NPR relies heavily on temps for its content and production and writing out the questions (better paid) hosts ask. Which helps explain why it’s so often lame.

  36. 36
    Cermet says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:I am so devastated! I guess I should never post if group think policy is violated.

    At least the orange fart cloud lies directly relative to personal issues that are for his own advantage – not to advance a devastating war of choice.

    Like AGW and what will happen to the equatorial belt of our world in 40 or so years, speaking facts just is not something anyone wants to hear. Too bad – I’ll still post.

  37. 37
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @trnc: The spelling.

  38. 38
    Aleta says:

    Wow I just looked at the twitter; how many fact checkers do they have?

    Also, a Smocking Gun sounds like a dressmaking tool.

  39. 39
    Mike E says:

    @Elizabelle: concern trolling, at New Poo Review? Color me shocked!

  40. 40
    SFAW says:

    @Cermet:

    Thanks for sharing.

    Maybe you could work on a thesis or even a dissertation re: whether Bush was worse than Trump, and whether the Holocaust was worse than Stalin’s mass murders. Because, after all, it’s a fucking contest, right?

  41. 41
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    James Fallows skewers John Kelly as the monster that he always was, except for the constraints laid upon him in the military…

    I also read Trump had to further “humiliate” him by announcing he was leaving on Saturday, after the two had agreed Kelly would announce it himself today. It wasn’t humiliating enough as far as I’m concerned.

  42. 42
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Cermet: Let me put it this way. While I would agree that Bush has done more tangible harm to the country to date, the Trump story is still being written and the fundamentals are WAAAAAAAY worse.

  43. 43
    Doug R says:

    @Elizabelle:

    “Worrying.” Implies: Because they’re so damned cowardly and feckless. Yes, it’s fucking Mara Fox News Liasson.

    “Worry of a political backlash if they impeach the President.” Stuff it, Mara.

    Anyway, big article in WaPo this weekend: NPR relies heavily on temps for its content and production and writing out the questions (better paid) hosts ask. Which helps explain why it’s so often lame.

    Over 8 per cent margin for Democrats in the 2018 elections, the highest midterm margin since they started counting it just after WW2.
    I think there’ll be a backlash if they DON’T impeach.

  44. 44
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Mark Meadows on CoS job: “Absolutely not.” (CNN)

  45. 45

    @A Ghost To Most: It will be Jared or Ivanka. Orange Lear has no one left.

  46. 46

    Yeah, I didn’t want to start an argument about whether Bush (or anyone else) was worse than Trump — just frustrated with anyone in the media patting themselves on the back for being diligent fact-checkers decades too late, as if they deserve a cookie.

  47. 47
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Cermet:

    You’re referring to W once more. Yes, his decisions and choices resulted in deaths on a much grander scale than the choices made (SO FAR) by Trump. But how many deaths will Trump cause by not acting on climate change?

    Trump is the devil we know, the devil we HAVE RIGHT NOW.

    It’s not a contest, Cermet. BJers can loathe more than one toad at a time.

  48. 48
    chopper says:

    @Cermet:

    Too bad – I’ll still post.

    that’s the spirit!

  49. 49
    Bruce K says:

    What really infuriates me about all this is that these bastards are using the same goddamn playbook the OG Nazis used in the 1920s and 1930s, and they’ve got the gall to claim that the people opposing them are the real fascists.

    At this point, either the 21st-century GOP dies as an institution, or the United States of America dies. I no longer see a path forward in which both institutions survive.

  50. 50

    @Ella in New Mexico: Has Fallows been asleep for two years. Or did the uniform and the medals blind him?

  51. 51

    @Bruce K:

    At this point, either the 21st-century GOP dies as an institution, or the United States of America dies. I no longer see a path forward in which both institutions survive

    Agreed that’s the choice before us.

  52. 52
    Jeffro says:

    @Wapiti:

    In view of the smocking gun tweet, I’ve decided to call the guy Donild Turnip. I won’t be offended if the WAPO does something similar.

    Shouldn’t it really be Donald Mushroom?

    (eww I grossed my own self out with that)

  53. 53
    Redshift says:

    @Jerzy Russian:

    A liar is a bad person, whereas someone who “repeated a false claim” might not be such a bad person after all. Perhaps they did not know it was false, for example.

    That is the standard explanation offered by most of our media outlets, yes. But you would think once you’ve created a category for “false statements repeated multiple times after they’ve been publicly shown to be false,” you could dispense with the possibility he might not know it’s a lie.

  54. 54
    different-church-lady says:

    @Aleta:

    why decide to do this now, instead of earlier?

    Lies. Truth. Circumnavigation. Wardrobe below the belt. Rate of acceleration. All that all that.

  55. 55
    Alain the site fixer says:

    I’ll just leave this here for discussion.

    Three Stages of Trump Lies
    1. “I didn’t do it, you did it.”
    2. “You can’t prove I did it.”
    3. “So what if I did it, it’s not illegal.”

    Seems spot-on, sadly.

  56. 56
    Doug R says:

    @SFAW:

    @Cermet:

    Thanks for sharing.

    Maybe you could work on a thesis or even a dissertation re: whether Bush was worse than Trump, and whether the Holocaust was worse than Stalin’s mass murders. Because, after all, it’s a fucking contest, right?

    My grandfather fled Ukraine with his young family in the late 1920s or early 1930s just ahead of Stalin’s purges. I think he’d say Stalin. But my grandfather was Mennonite and not Jewish, so it depends on who’s in power RIGHT NOW.
    W was terrible and best estimates are a million Iraqis died but Individual 1 isn’t even trying to govern. The murder of Khashoggi and stripping away of citizenship of children born to midwifes in Texas border towns means NO American is safe. Stepping back from Syria and giving putin free reign in Syria and Ukraine and stepping back from North Korea means NO west coast resident is safe.
    Ignoring climate science ensures many millions more dead, Syria and Somalia and Yemen are just the first tastes.

  57. 57
    bemused says:

    @satby:

    It never ceases to blow my mind how cultish rightwingers are. I’d bet that old RWNJ went home still disbelieving you no matter what evidence you showed him. If Fox and company didn’t report it or their wingnut fox bot friends never heard it, it just can’t be true.

  58. 58
    Amir Khalid says:

    @trnc:
    A lie is a false statement made with intent to deceive. A false statement could have been made in error, i.e. without intent to deceive. Although I myself would not give Trump the benefit of any doubt in such a matter.

  59. 59
    West of the Rockies says:

    I’m sure that if asked about this WaPo story, Ivanka would go all vocal-fry and whisper that her father is a good man. Dullnald Jr. would smirk and say something befitting a 6th grade bully: ” Yeah, well, you’re stupid and your feet stink.” Hucksterbee would bug out one eye, squint the other, and spew her usual verbal diarrhea.

  60. 60
    The Moar You Know says:

    To qualify as a Bottomless Pinocchio, the lie must have been repeated at least 20 times since receiving a 3- or 4-Pinocchio rating from The Post. Glenn Kessler, WaPo’s chief fact-checker, says 14 of Trump’s lies already qualify.

    Wow, that motherfucker is a profile in courage and resistance. As is his paper. A NEW CATEGORY, people!

    Under other circumstances this would be hilarious. I find this humiliating and horrifying. We gave them a free press and this is what they do with it: NOTHING.

  61. 61
    Immanentize says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Fallows has been a total trooper for the light and the right throughout. This article in the Atlantic: The Tragedy of the American Militrary is one of the most profound pieces about this nation’s problems with the military, perhaps ever.

    I know you brook no competition when it comes to hating on the Trump generals, but Fallows is just not really the right target.

  62. 62
    different-church-lady says:

    @schrodingers_cat: What about the Charlottetown supremacist they just convicted of murder?

  63. 63
    different-church-lady says:

    @Amir Khalid: “It’s not a lie if you believe it!”

  64. 64
    Jerzy Russian says:

    @Redshift:

    But you would think once you’ve created a category for “false statements repeated multiple times after they’ve been publicly shown to be false,” you could dispense with the possibility he might not know it’s a lie.

    Yes, I agree. If we had anywhere close to a sane society these levels of “false statements” would be a disqualification. Even so, you the media could still say/write “repeated lies”.

  65. 65
    hueyplong says:

    1. The new Wash Post pinocchio thing is worthless. They won’t apply it under their repetition rule until each such lie is absolutely cemented as truth with the 38-40%* who continue to think that the current stock market slide can only be arrested by arresting Hillary Clinton.

    2. Has anyone ever heard any media person of any stripe ever apply the word “overreach” to anything any Republican ever did?

    * Percentage based on approval rate. YMMV

  66. 66
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Doug R:

    I think there’ll be a backlash if they DON’T impeach.

    shrug

    The success of any impeachment rests squarely on the shoulders of the Republicans in the Sentae. If voters want to get upset with House DEMs for not impeaching trump when the present GOP is so morally bankrupt there is no level they will not stoop to to protect trump. Until the political calculus changes there is no point to it, so House DEMs need to investigate the shit out of those things that promise the most ammo to use against the GOP.

  67. 67
    different-church-lady says:

    @bemused:

    It never ceases to blow my mind how cultish rightwingers are.

    Rightwingers will stick with their leader no matter how horrible he is.

    Leftwingers will stick a knife in the back of their leader the moment she or he takes office.

  68. 68
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Have only seen headline so far, but it appears the SC just made a decision in favor of Planned Parenthood and against states that would deny PP funding.

    Off to find an actual factual report.

  69. 69
    bemused says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Truth! Leftwingers who should know better make my teeth ache from grinding them.

  70. 70
    satby says:

    @Brachiator: @OzarkHillbilly: It’s been a 40 year project of the right wing to disseminate false information as facts via their own network of “think tanks” and media even before Fox news came online 22 years ago. So brainwashed is appropriate as a description, because since the demise of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 any pushback against the misinformation has been tepid and often isolated from watchers of the propaganda channels.
    There’s an entire generation that have never been exposed to unbiased media.

  71. 71
    PPCLI says:

    @Alain the site fixer: Don’t forget stage 4: “So what if it’s illegal? Hillary did worse.”

  72. 72
    MattF says:

    Trump looks at the effects of his lies– if they seem to have a ‘positive’ effect, he’ll repeat them. People see this as transactional behavior but, for the record, it’s still lying.

  73. 73
    Elizabelle says:

    @Immanentize: I love James Fallows. Remarkable journalist; broad interests. Good pilot, too!

  74. 74
    danielx says:

    @Aleta:

    You noticed!

  75. 75
    PPCLI says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: There is no way to remove Trump without a sea change in the Senate. But hearings should be used as the Republicans have shown they can be effectively used. Make sure that every goddamn news cycle has another headline-worthy shocking revelation. Dole them out piece by piece so they can last a couple of years if need be. There is enough. Keep reminding people of things. Over and over. Get people to speak under oath or take the 5th. Etc.

  76. 76
    Amir Khalid says:

    19 free repetitions of a falsehood before The Washington Post wakes up at the 20th and calls you a Bottomless Pinocchio is way too many. Bottomless Pinocchio status should start no later than the second repetition.

  77. 77
    Elizabelle says:

    FTF NYTimes breaking news:

    Prime Minister Theresa May, facing the prospect of humiliating defeat, sought to delay a vote on her Brexit plan, putting the process in disarray.

    “Putting the process in disarray?” Really, NY Times? Wasn’t it all over the road and then some before?

    Gawd, I wish they would call out these emperor no clothes types.

  78. 78
    Doug R says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Bring out the evidence, the will to impeach will be there.
    The Senate can decide which side of history they want to be on, if they want to fight it, hang it on them in 2020 and 2022.

  79. 79
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @PPCLI: Yep, weaponize it. The GOP did and they had a lot less to work with. DEMs have actual crimes to investigate.

  80. 80
    Aleta says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    John Kelly destroyed his reputation when he lied on a sitting Member of Congress.

    Trump’s Cabinet of Corruption is cracking. Thank u, next.

    — Yvette D. Clarke (@RepYvetteClarke) December 9, 2018

  81. 81
    Elizabelle says:

    Heard some BBC type interviewed over the weekend on some public radio program. What’s going on with Brexit? And they all laugh, because who can say and it’s all so amusing. Not.

    He was taken with himself and all about “some people say” – and then the anecdote. But absolutely no context to know if whoever was saying it was accurate or full of it.

    All the young full of themselves then congratulated him on his contributions and isn’t it all just such a mess? Chuckle, chuckle.

    Fuckers like that is what allows this stuff to go on. Accuracy over “objectivity”, fuckers. Make context an important part of your reporting. Don’t worry about becoming repetitious. Constant repetition is what helps the liars drum their propaganda home.

    As we are seeing, with this topic.

  82. 82
    different-church-lady says:

    @Aleta:

    John Kelly destroyed his reputation when he lied on a sitting Member of Congress.

    I believe that should read “…lay on a sitting member of congress.”

    Or perhaps, “…sat on a laying member of congress.”

  83. 83
    MattF says:

    @PPCLI: Well, the number of different Russians reportedly contacting the Trump campaign is now up to 14. Are they all shocking and newsworthy? Trump lies and crimes are wholesale, scandal is retail.

  84. 84

    @Immanentize: Good for him, then. I don’t hate or love the generals, they don’t get a pass from me for being generals and ex-military.

    ETA: They are the ones that staked their reputations to go work for the Orange Tyrant and give him legitimacy.

  85. 85
    different-church-lady says:

    @MattF: “How do we do it? Volume, volume, volume!

  86. 86
    Aleta says:

    @Elizabelle:
    disarray for the reporters perhaps, whose story must be rewritten … (sarc)

  87. 87
    MagdaInBlack says:

    @Kraux Pas:
    Thank you.
    Besides, hard to make that judgement til the dust has settled. This debacle is far from over.

  88. 88
    chopper says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    also, the ‘pinnochio’ bit kinda drives me nuts. it’s more than a bit too cutesy considering what’s supposed to be being pointed out here; huge lies, disinformation and full-on bullshit propaganda from a political party that’s totally embracing fascism, and all of it gets a cute little “pinnochio”. what, the post couldn’t afford the licensing fees to use grumpy cat instead? look everyone, sanders’ statement got three cute lil’ sad puppies! aw…

  89. 89
    Brachiator says:

    @Elizabelle:

    The firehose of lies is certainly a tactic. [Further] Undermining norms and democratic institutions.

    Trump, as president of the United States, establishes new norms by his decisions and behavior, not just for this country, but also for other nations.

    There was some candidate for public office during the midterms who was another rich guy who refused to disclose information from his tax returns. And autocrats around the world are having fun calling criticism fake news, especially when they use this as an excuse to throttle the press in their countries. And there is a loose affiliation of nationalists who point to Trump as one of their own as they justify their attempts to exclude or oppress people.

  90. 90
    chopper says:

    @Elizabelle:

    cause apparently for the last few years the process has been in array.

  91. 91
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Doug R:

    Bring out the evidence, the will to impeach will be there.

    Mitch is still the Majority leader and he is bound and determined to cover up anything and everything (has been since before the ’16 election) in pursuit of his own personal mission to reshape the judiciary in his image. It will take 20 GOP senators rebelling against him to impeach trump. As of this point in this incessantly corrupt admin, I am hard pressed to imagine what might cause such a mass defection on the morally bankrupt, anti-democratic Right.

    It is possible, the math certainly can change, but only because in the realm of human endeavor nothing is impossible. I find impeachment exceedingly unlikely.

    eta: I think it is far more likely that the GOP will react to the inescapable truths not by impeaching trump but by doubling down as they have done in NC and are trying to do in WI and MI in reaction to their electoral losses there.

  92. 92
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    The failure of the mainstream press to adjust the way it covers presidencies in the wake of the election of a pathologically lying stooge of a foreign autocrat has been nothing short of calamitous, IMO. 

    Trump might be a criminal grifter and self-dealing traitor who knowingly and deliberately defrauded the American people, but hey, he never wore a beige suit, right? Never presidented while black neither!

    IOKIYAR

    The press corpse is hardwired to defer to Republican Daddies. But the press is (sloooowly) being forced to speak the plain truth, not by inclination but more by compulsion.

    Every time Trump shows his ass, the ugly cannot be unseen. The problem ain’t evidence, it’s a matter of courage and will.

    imo

  93. 93
    MattF says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Impeachment could happen, though rather unlikely. Conviction is a different ballgame.

  94. 94
    Platonailedit says:

    I don’t see once the word lie being used in that extract. Calling his lies as lies will actually be the first start.

    Fuck wapo and their ‘false’ concern trolling.

  95. 95
    Ruckus says:

    @Redshift:

    he might not know it’s a lie.

    individual 1 does operate on a scale different that most humans.
    It’s a far worse scale.
    It’s a far stupider scale.
    His entire process is reactionary to what he says that he may expect the truth is whatever he says it is, whenever he says it. And he’s worse now than he was not that long ago. (and that wasn’t good at all) Which is one reason I think he has Alzheimers. I’ve seen this show before. Not anywhere near this scale or danger of course. One of the traits is that people remember the new stuff far better than the old stuff, which they can’t remember correctly at all. He remembers the lies, at least for a while. They get replaced with new lies. Which they don’t see as lies. Because they don’t know any better. Of course this is not the first time in his life he could be said to be delusional.
    I’m not excusing his behavior. He shouldn’t be in this position no matter the reason he’s this way, no matter if I’m completely wrong about why.
    He’s fucking delusional, whatever is the cause, not a good trait for a president.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    hueyplong says:

    If the guilt is plain enough, you impeach and campaign on the Republican Senate’s failure to convict. Otherwise, Democrats are just as spineless as Republicans.

    “You don’t have the votes” is just one of the fallback positions behind “He didn’t do anything wrong.”

    All this seems obvious, but I don’t hear it anywhere yet.

  98. 98
  99. 99
    Aleta says:

    @Redshift: Btw, my sympathy about your rabbits. I learned a lot from some rabbits we didn’t expect to have, and I’ve never forgotten their presence.

  100. 100
    Doug R says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: You’re right, we should have given up long ago. We’ll never get a historic vote margin in 2018.

  101. 101
    Elizabelle says:

    @ Redshift: could your rabbits not be saved? If so, condolences.

  102. 102
    Platonailedit says:

    And Theresa May pulls the plug on brexit vote. Not a good month for rwnj’s.

  103. 103
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Elizabelle: Good old Mar-a-Liarspawn, as always in dire need of a long rope & a lamppost to call her very own…

  104. 104
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Their standard* does seem rather flabby, no? “If you punch me 19 more times I might punch you back!”

    * If you don’t like these standards, the Post has others.

  105. 105
    Aleta says:

    @Elizabelle: I only saw that they were each ailing, one more than the other.

  106. 106
    Platonailedit says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Dems have to stop accepting rethugs frames of wars and start acting on what they were elected to do.

  107. 107
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MattF:

    Conviction is a different ballgame.

    On state charges. I want to see him in Sing Sing. Or better yet, Angola. Imagine him picking cotton.

  108. 108
    West of the Rockies says:

    @chopper:

    Maybe they could use the poo emoji?

  109. 109
    Kathleen says:

    @Comrade Scrutinizer: I second third, fourth and fifth that emotion.

  110. 110
  111. 111
    Elizabelle says:

    @Uncle Cosmo: Thank dog our local NPR station has a music stream; only catch the “news” on the hour. Less exposure to Mara and her ridiculous framing. NPR is too often a parody these days.

    Heard Mendelssohn’s Scottish Symphony this morning. On Performance Today. Wondered if it had been in the Barry Lyndon soundtrack, but apparently not. Some was very familiar.

  112. 112
    Elizabelle says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: What? Without a gold cart?

  113. 113
    Elizabelle says:

    @Aleta: “Can this rabbit be saved?” I hope so. Thanks.

    And thoughts for Baud’s ailing pet. I noticed Baud had not been about much lately (or so it seemed).

  114. 114
  115. 115
    Kay says:

    I hate to be such a PITA (not really) but this:

    Bottomless Pinocchio

    Is a problem. Don’t give your work cute names intended not to offend powerful people. Don’t devalue your own work.

    The lying is a HUGE problem- it’s the source of 90% of the other problems. It’s not cute. It’s serious. Profound. Foundational, Bedrock. Pick your serious word, but don’t use Pinocchio.

  116. 116
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: What I keep thinking is that if any single sitting R Senator came out with some statement along the lines of “while I have spent my career committed to the ideals of the Republican party and still believe in them wholeheartedly, I value my oath to the Constitution and the country above my party allegiance and can no longer support what seem to be clear violations of the law” the MSM would be washing his balls for the next two years. He’d be invited on every TV show any time he wanted, to speak on any subject. Chuck Todd would prostrate himself at his feet. It would take a half-second for everyone to call him a “profile in courage.”

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  118. 118
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @satby: We’ve heard. Repeatedly. If you can explain just how this helps our current situation, feel free to repeat ad infinitum.

  119. 119
    Platonailedit says:

    @germy:

    All those collusions coming home to roost.

    Tick tock, mofos.

  120. 120
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Doug R: Never stop fighting, but one needs to pick one’s battles. If the DEMs were to try and investigate everything they will get nowhere on any of them and won’t have passed any legislation that actually shows what they want to accomplish. They have to do more than just hate on trump.

    There is one possible benefit of impeaching that just occurred to me: It would force the GOP to conduct a show trial and possibly suck a lot of time and energy out of Mitch’s preferred goals.

  121. 121
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Cermet: We’ve heard. Repeatedly. If you can explain just how this is useful in our current crisis, feel free to repeat ad infinitum.

  122. 122
    Kathleen says:

    @West of the Rockies: I love the grimacing poo emoji.

  123. 123
    germy says:

    Superbeets is more concerned about the misdeeds of… Florida schools:

    Florida schools cover up crimes: Rapes, guns and more https://t.co/nilIlitUXh— Dana Loesch (@DLoesch) December 10, 2018

  124. 124
    Platonailedit says:

    @satby:

    At least, you steered one guy towards the right direction.

  125. 125
    Kay says:

    @chopper:

    also, the ‘pinnochio’ bit kinda drives me nuts. it’s more than a bit too cutesy considering what’s supposed to be being pointed out here; huge lies, disinformation and full-on bullshit propaganda from a political party that’s totally embracing fascism, and all of it gets a cute little “pinnochio”. what, the post couldn’t afford the licensing fees to use grumpy cat instead? look everyone, sanders’ statement got three cute lil’ sad puppies! aw…

    Exactly. When Trump says that steel mills or auto plants are opening, there’s a word for that- propaganda. He’s giving it the legitimacy of the US. It’s state-produced and disseminated lies, intended to prop up his administration.

    In any other country the US would denounce this. We (now) turn it into a Disney character. Three pinocchios!

    He doesn’t have to devalue their work. They volunteer to do it themselves.

  126. 126

    @Kay: If they point out the truth about T without the frippery they know there will be backlash. On this top 10,000 blog witness the comments I get. I supposedly hate the generals, I have got that twice in the comments now in the past two days, because I was not taken in by the supposed nobility of Kelly unlike most of our prestige media. All I did was pay attention to what he was actually doing.
    People love their illusions and are unwilling to give them up.

  127. 127
    rikyrah says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Wipe them out. All of them.

    truth
    truth
    truth

  128. 128
    neldob says:

    @Amir Khalid: I agree. 20 cute little Pinocchios for promoting disinformation. Aww. They should have 20 Hitlers or Stalins or bloody ice-picks, and give him a prize for best destruction of our democracy. Maybe chopping off the fingers and toes of Uncle Sam and when they get to 20, well, then they can stab him in the back. Why burn the flag or kneel for the anthem when you can just put sand in the gears by spreading disinformation? not to mention the traitor aspect.

  129. 129

    I’ve been listening to Maddow’s Bag Man podcast and recommend it highly. She draws parallels between how Agnew tried to avoid legal issues (like taking bribes for contracts even after he became VP) and how Trump does so now. The Watergate situation comes across as like the Trump one only now the Agnew figure is the president rather than the VP. It’s very well done.

  130. 130
    Kay says:

    I didn’t see anything in the Dem House agenda on nepotism. We need rules on hiring relatives.

    I don’t mean to alarm anyone but the President’s daughter and her husband are running that administration.

    Never should have been allowed to happen, and it gets worse every month. What should not come as a surprise to anyone is that the Trumps are taking advantage of another “norm”. Someone should stop them.

    They require rules. They require constant monitoring and enforcement. They are not the kind of people who can be given any discretion, because they have no inner monitor and they lack character. Rules were invented to rein in people like this. They’ll break the rules because they’re entitled, pampered brats but at least put some in.

  131. 131
    rikyrah says:

    @germy:

    Maria Butina poised to plead guilty in case involving suspected Kremlin attempts to influence NRA

    RICO, Baby…..

    RICO!!!

  132. 132
    different-church-lady says:

    @Kay: The Pinocchio as a unit pre-dates Trumpism. It was cute back when politicians just nibbled around the edges, but all the humor has gone out of it now that it is up against something as massive, deliberate, and dismaying as Trumpism. But it is established. A new Super-Pinocchio is not the answer, obviously, but at least there’s some recognition of the inadequacy of the original approach.

  133. 133
    Betty Cracker says:

    RE: impeachment: I saw a few clips of Democrats commenting on the news shows yesterday. Most were asked about Adam Schiff’s observation that Trump could face jail time after leaving office just on what we know already, now that he has been implicated in at least two felonies (the hush money payouts). That’s just a fact, but the Dems were asked specifically about impeachment, and all the ones I heard said they would wait for the Mueller investigation to conclude to make that decision. That’s the correct answer, IMO. One of them pointed out that Mueller knows a hell of a lot more than we know at this point — an even more correct answer.

    I think it’s likely that Trump will be impeached because I’m certain there’s much more evidence for his crimes than has been reported to date. I don’t know if he’ll be convicted or forced to resign or tough it out — the outcome depends on the investigation’s findings, what’s revealed during the hearings, and Trump’s popularity when the issue comes to a head, since impeachment is fundamentally a political process.

  134. 134
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    When the president of the United States behaves this way, it should be front page, screaming headline news, not a new, clever graphic device on the back pages.

  135. 135
    different-church-lady says:

    @neldob: If they want to be really courageous, they should drop all the symbols and icons and emojis and simply call for his resignation, daily.

  136. 136
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I didn’t see anything in the Dem House agenda on nepotism. We need rules on hiring relatives.

    I don’t mean to alarm anyone but the President’s daughter and her husband are running that administration.

    Keep on bringing that truth.

  137. 137
    Mandalay says:

    @hueyplong:

    The new Wash Post pinocchio thing is worthless.

    I wouldn’t go quite that far, but it is unlikely to be more than a gimmick for clickbait. The fact checking web sites are generally cesspools of bullshit themselves.

    This simple tweet from Dan Gilmor proposes an approach that would be a thousand times more effective than fact checking articles, and improve the quality of journalism at the same time:

    Sigh. @NBCNews still can’t grasp a simple principle of journalism. Don’t quote a lie verbatim without saying it’s a lie, or, much better, don’t repeat it at all. This is journalistic malpractice.

    Bingo! The problem is that there are plenty of “journalists” who argue that if the president says something it is automatically news, and the media is obliged to report it. Well, this can change. Report the lie if you must, but only if you make it clear that it is a lie.

  138. 138
    different-church-lady says:

    @Quaker in a Basement: The WaPo does have those headlines as well.

  139. 139
    Kay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I continue to wonder how much Trump relies on blackmail and threats to expose people. He doesn’t even have to expose them on criminality or “serious” offenses. he could just embarrass them and harm careers.

    I feel like they had an informal understanding with other high level pols that some things weren’t for public view. Trump doesn’t abide by that understanding. We saw it with Morning Joe. His intent was to humiliate them. I wonder if he used it during the campaign to get all the fawning coverage they gave him.

  140. 140

    @different-church-lady: What truly irritates me about Judy Woodruff hosted Newshour is the smiling and giggling. Treason is not funny.

  141. 141

    @Kay: Certainly a possibility and fits in with the entire mob boss style.

  142. 142
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I second that recommendation. Just finished the series, and I learned a lot from it. Like most people, I assumed Agnew’s resignation had something to do with Watergate, but nope — he was just a garden-variety crook! Also, Agnew’s playbook to obstruct the investigation matches Trump’s to a tee.

  143. 143
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    It disgusts me. I mean our “meritocracy” has taken a real hit here lately, but can we at least pretend that we hire people based on qualifications? Jesus. It’s bad for young people to see this – why should anyone try to do anything if the adult children of the rich and famous get plum jobs with no effort?

    Stop hiring your fucking kids, you clowns. Give someone else a chance. This isn’t your family restaurant or small business.

  144. 144
    Yarrow says:

    @Betty Cracker: Agree. The Dems are handling the impeachment question very well. Wait for the Mueller investigation. There is so much more in that investigation than what has just been revealed. Felonies about using campaign money to pay off women he slept with? These are the small felonies. We haven’t even got to Russian money laundering.

  145. 145
    patrick II says:

    Trump is not the only one who lies to “a deliberate effort to replace the truth with his own”. It is a deliberate tactic, although usually more subtly done, of the whole conservative establishment. That is what was meant when Rove asserted that “we create reality”. So now many people think that in-person voter id is a big problem, or that crime is at an all-time high, or that people should die from lack of medical care because they don’t earn enough money to pay for a doctor. I could go on, but watch FOX or listen to Limbaugh, the most sophisticated of the repeat liars, for a short time and it becomes obvious.
    And, evidently, about 40% of us live in this new created reality, which in the long run probably is going to kill many of our children since one of the lies is about global warming. Yes, I said warming, not change. That is the reality.

  146. 146
    Burnspbesq says:

    If Larry Klayman doesn’t get sanctioned for filing Jerome Corsi’s hilarious complaint against Mueller, then why do we have Rule 11?

  147. 147
    Kay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There’s a story about Falwell’s son that looks black-maily. he’s got some weird relationship with a 21 year old male and the Trump’s “fixer”, Cohen, got the Falwell son’s endorsement early. Did they threaten him with exposure? They’re thugs. It’s 100% in keeping with their past behavior.

    I actually wonder about it with the Epstein case. There’s some skeletons there that Trump could reveal.

  148. 148
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mandalay: Agreed, and the lie must be identified as such in the headline or news alert sent to people’s phones. I’ve seen some weak-sauce improvement in that direction lately, e.g., “Trump claims, without evidence, blah blah blah,” but it’s not good enough. Millions of people never click a headline or alert.

  149. 149
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Yarrow: It took a while with Watergate for momentum to build, for the evidence to pile up, for senators to peel off. The waiting is the hardest part.

  150. 150
    Mandalay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    What truly irritates me about Judy Woodruff hosted Newshour is the smiling and giggling. Treason is not funny.

    The general approach of cable media is disgusting. Trump will say or do something vile, and a pundit will say with as big smile: “Well, I think we have learned by now – {chuckle} – that this president doesn’t do things in a conventional manner {chuckle}”. This drivel gets rewarded with a {chuckle} from each of the pundit’s peers on the panel.

    The president has been in office for nearly two years. Drop the fucking {chuckle}. Drop the moronic insights. Drop dead.

  151. 151
    Yarrow says:

    Bottomless Pinocchio just in the imagery alone is a problem. Why is a boy puppet who wants to be a real boy not wearing pants? What in the world? Wrong, wrong, wrong.

  152. 152

    @Kay: I rewatched the HBO movie, And The Band Played On last week. It is about the AIDS epidemic and the Reagan-Bush I non-response that let millions die needlessly. And there was Jerry Falwell hating on the gays in one of the clips in the movie.
    We have paid high price for this rotten R rule for decades now. And watching the media hagiography of Bush I made me stabby.
    ETA: First by hobbling the CDC with budget cuts and then ignoring their recommendations. Global warming debate is playing exactly in the same way now.

  153. 153
    Burnspbesq says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    New York has several prisons that are much worse, and much farther from the city, than Sing Sing. I’d love to see him sent to freeze his ass off in Dannemora or Great Meadow.

  154. 154
    ruemara says:

    @different-church-lady: Before, actually. Like AOC, who is being saddled with unrealistic expectations and has already disappointed The Pure by not screaming for the revolution and Nancy Pelosi to be removed for a better person, like Bernie who could totally be House Speaker & a Senator.

  155. 155
    rikyrah says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That’s just a fact, but the Dems were asked specifically about impeachment, and all the ones I heard said they would wait for the Mueller investigation to conclude to make that decision. That’s the correct answer, IMO. One of them pointed out that Mueller knows a hell of a lot more than we know at this point — an even more correct answer.

    It is a good answer, and for them to just dive into all the crookedness.

  156. 156

    there should be – ought to be – NEED TO BE – enforceable ethics rules about elected officials who make false statements and then continue to repeat those false statements. And one of those enforcements is that the person be suspended from all duties for a period of six months to prevent their lying from having any direct impact on policies and legislation.

  157. 157
    TenguPhule says:

    The failure of the mainstream press to adjust the way it covers presidencies in the wake of the election of a pathologically lying stooge of a foreign autocrat has been nothing short of calamitous, IMO.

    In the war on Reality, all of us are losers.

  158. 158
    jl says:

    Interesting to watch the GOPers trying to dig their hols as fast and deep as possible so they can lower the bar further down towards the center of the earth.

    So, Gary Hart can be plausibly argued to have maybe violated campaign finance laws, but not enough evidence to charge him. So, bothering any candidate for federal office with that shit is selective prosecution from now on. I guess so. OJ Siimpson can plausibly be argued to have gotten away with murder, so no point in enforcing laws against murder any more.

    Rand Paul was mouthing off this weekend, and maybe said some sensible stuff on Saudi Arable (not sure only heard a five second soundbite on that), but gosh golly gee, as far as he has heard nothing illegal about opening a hotel in Moscow. I guess no problem with lying that there was no deal during the campaign any more when in fact their was still a deal, and multiple secret money channels, including one to Putin’s office is no problem.

    But, then, maybe that is how the Pauls’ usually do business and they may have a different perspective than most of us.

  159. 159
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator:

    Ah, Monday! Starting another day in the Trump Place.

    Infrastructure week is off to a hell of a start in the Stock Market.

  160. 160
    bemused says:

    George Conway criticized trump for saying Cohen report cleared him. I can’t even begin to understand how marriages like George and Kellyanne work but Carville and Matalin are still married. What puzzles me more is why Kellyanne is still working in the WH. Trump can’t be happy about George’s tweets.
    Maybe it’s just that trump has even bigger problems finding people willing to work in top WH positions now and Kellyanne is on the backburner.

  161. 161
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA):

    Trump is the natural evolution of what the MSM allowed Bush II to get away with. Letting Bush II get away with every fucking thing that he did emboldened the Republicans to do worse and worse (more voter suppression, more lying, more gerrymandering, etc.) until we ended up with Trump.

    So it’s not even that one is “worse” than the other. It’s that Trump is the inevitable result of what Bush II and the Republicans became while the MSM enabled them.

    (I realize that this is what you were saying in the first place, but I’m amplifying it for the back row.)

  162. 162
    TenguPhule says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Supreme Court sides with Planned Parenthood on state funding case.

    ETA to be clear, they declined the case.

    Too soon after the appointment for Beergut to make a wave.

  163. 163
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Great piece by Fallows, thanks.

  164. 164
    zhena gogolia says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    NOT TO MENTION BUSH IS GONE AND NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT HIM NOW BUT TRUMP IS STILL THERE AND WE HAVE TO ACT. These constant posts are aimed at inducing hopelessness and inaction. I know Cermet has been around for a while, but he really sounds like a Russian bot these days.

  165. 165
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cermet:

    At least the orange fart cloud lies directly relative to personal issues that are for his own advantage – not to advance a devastating war of choice.

    Why you seem to think this will remain an either/or scenario puzzles me.

    Given the choice between going to jail and probably being killed in prison or kicking off as many wars as he can start and bet on escaping in all the confusion, which do you think Trump will be inclined to go for?

  166. 166

    @Mnemosyne: I was thinking this morning about a comment I read after Bush II to the effect that we’d run a real life experiment on whether it mattered if a president was stupid, and we learned it did. Trump’s election suggests we are slow learners.

  167. 167
    JWR says:

    @Elizabelle:

    NPR relies heavily on temps for its content and production and writing out the questions (better paid) hosts ask. Which helps explain why it’s so often lame.

    Don’t forget Jonah “Liberal Fascism” Goldberg. There are times I want to write them a sternly worded letter complaining that there are no on-air Liberals to counter this garbage pit of Conservatism, but I know they’ll never change. Besides, we all just know that the media has that built-in Liberal bias. // rolling my eyes…

  168. 168
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @jl: Both Pauls have multiple, long-standing ties to Russia.

  169. 169
    zhena gogolia says:

    @chopper:

    Yeah, Pinocchio was a cute little wooden boy.

  170. 170
    Yarrow says:

    @zhena gogolia: Encouraging despair is definitely a tactic Russian bots employ. I know we’re only a top 10,000 blog but hey, we got the full attention of Bob in Putinland, so…

  171. 171
    TenguPhule says:

    @Bruce K:

    At this point, either the 21st-century GOP dies as an institution, or the United States of America dies. I no longer see a path forward in which both institutions survive.

    I’ve been screaming this for 2 years now.

  172. 172
    Gravenstone says:

    @Betty Cracker: Best case – Mueller delivers such a comprehensive accounting of Trump’s crimes in pursuit of money (always his first priority) and office that not only does the House impeach, but Turtle actually leads the charge to conviction. Of course, his motivations will be to try and staunch the bleeding and minimize Republican electoral losses in 2020 (good luck with that). But even such selfish motives would serve the greater good of getting Trump out of office.

  173. 173
    zhena gogolia says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Maybe if there was a new Pinocchio film in which Pinocchio came back as a kind of giant Chucky doll and went around biting people’s heads off. Then it might be appropriate.

  174. 174
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Yarrow: *Almost* top 10,000. Almost. Let’s not get too far out over our skis.

  175. 175
    Yarrow says:

    @Gravenstone: No, his motives would be to protect himself, seeing as he’s a traitor too. Perhaps he’d be given leniency if he did lead the conviction.

  176. 176
    TenguPhule says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    NOT TO MENTION BUSH IS GONE AND NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT HIM NOW

    Actually there’s still time to dump him at the Hague. Hell, we spent over 60 years chasing down and prosecuting the original NAZIs.

  177. 177
    zhena gogolia says:

    But I really don’t want to dump on WaPo because they are the source of so much more useful political news and commentary than any other source I know (barring BJ). They leave NYT in the dust.

  178. 178
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Yarrow: Oh, and I always took Bob to be an old-leftist True Believer.

  179. 179
    TenguPhule says:

    @Gravenstone:

    but Turtle actually leads the charge to conviction.

    Never gonna happen. Turtle lives or dies with Trump, he’s already in too deep with Russia to escape.

  180. 180
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA):

    Would have been helpful in the runup to the Iraq war.

    Why anyone in the media thinks Trump’s blatant lying is something new rather than just a more blatant version of what we’ve already seen, and what they aided and abetted, is beyond me.

    When the UK adopted the Polaris missile program for their nuclear deterrence the Kennedy administration promised to grantee the sovereignty of Kuwait since it is the main source of oil for the UK. The Bush admin felt obligated in the national interest but they had to lie to their own Fortress America followers.

  181. 181
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Trump is the natural evolution of what the MSM allowed Bush II to get away with. Letting Bush II get away with every fucking thing that he did emboldened the Republicans to do worse and worse (more voter suppression, more lying, more gerrymandering, etc.) until we ended up with Trump.

    And this truly was one of Nancy Pelosi’s and President Obama’s few true failings.

    “Move Forward for the good of the country” needs to be staked through the heart, burned and the ashes scattered to the four winds.

  182. 182
    Yarrow says:

    @Gin & Tonic: LOL. True enough. Wouldn’t want to overstate the facts.

    Re:: your previous comment, it’s kind of baffling to me how the Pauls have managed to keep their Russian connections mostly out of discussions about them. It’s not like it’s hidden but somehow no one talks about it much. Even when Rand Paul was one of two (hello, Wilmer) Senators to vote against sanctions on Russia, the press was just kind of “whatever” about it.

  183. 183
    jl says:

    I was thinking that a fun blog project might be to sneak a balloon-juice person into Trump chief of staff position. We could do a fundraiser for future legal defense fund and mental health treatment needs beforehand, so the person could go into the position with confidence that he or she will be taken care of after Trump shafts them. Would have to dwarf previous BJ fundraisers though.

    And we need a BJ volunteer who looks like a central casting chief of staff. Anyone interested?
    News I read says that Kelly actually wasn’t in the office as much as supposed, I guess in order to retain his sanity. So, maybe it would work out as a part time gig?

  184. 184
    Gravenstone says:

    @TenguPhule: If Mueller finds a smoking gun to that effect, then yes Turtle goes to the mattresses and dies there. Otherwise, I think he tries (futilely) to salvage the Republican brand for another electoral cycle.

  185. 185
    Yarrow says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Interesting. I didn’t. I took him to be posing as a leftist true believer. Can’t remember when that flipped for me but somewhere in his tenure here I decided he was a fake.

  186. 186
    catclub says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Given the choice between going to jail and probably being killed in prison or kicking off as many wars as he can start

    I think it is an interesting question whether an ex President in prison gets a secret service detachment inside.

    As to Turtle dying with Trump, no way. Turtle outlives trump

  187. 187
    jl says:

    @Gravenstone: Did Trump really put out a tweet that had ‘NO SMOKING GUN!’ in it? Thought I saw or heard that, but might have been a fever dream/nightmare I had last night. I have a vague memory of hearing a news blurb on it just as I woke up today.

  188. 188
    Yarrow says:

    @jl: He said “No Smocking Gun.” Not “smoking gun.”

  189. 189
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Yarrow: You have to go way back to see the real pattern, IMO, when he was in Pacifica, not Portland, and was posting crackpot stuff about the origins of HIV.

  190. 190
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @jl:

    I was thinking that a fun blog project might be to sneak a balloon-juice person into Trump chief of staff position

    Hmm John Cole does have a lot of experience with collapsing houses, being savaged by animals and drowning in ones own back yard…

  191. 191
    zhena gogolia says:

    @jl:

    NotMax in a Hawaiian shirt?

  192. 192
    Yarrow says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I guess I missed the earlier posts. I do know the Russians have played the long game with plants here all over the country, so who knows. There are definitely some crackpots out there, though.

  193. 193
    TenguPhule says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Mitch is still the Majority leader and he is bound and determined to cover up anything and everything (has been since before the ’16 election) in pursuit of his own personal mission to reshape the judiciary in his image. It will take 20 GOP senators rebelling against him to impeach trump. As of this point in this incessantly corrupt admin, I am hard pressed to imagine what might cause such a mass defection on the morally bankrupt, anti-democratic Right.

    Make McConnell own it. Once its clear who are the Republicans are in the Senate that voted for party over country, all of the inevitable anger and violence can be channelled productively toward their violent demise. For once, make the mob work for us.

  194. 194
    Fair Economist says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    *Almost* top 10,000. Almost. Let’s not get too far out over our skis.

    Heck, why not get over our skis? Are you afraid the WaPo will award us a Pinocchio nobody will pay attention to in a few years? Get with the zeitgeist!

  195. 195
    Brachiator says:

    @satby:

    It’s been a 40 year project of the right wing to disseminate false information as facts via their own network of “think tanks” and media even before Fox news came online 22 years ago. So brainwashed is appropriate as a description…

    No, it’s not. No one is forced to watch Fox News. Propaganda might be more appropriate, especially since Fox, Sinclair and other media funded by conservative plutocrats seek to become either the sole source of news or actively try to undermine alternative media voices.

    But the people who are devoutly attached to Fox News, or who hang onto Rush Limbaugh get a tremendous amount of validation and emotional satisfaction from these programs. And for the most part, these news outlets confirm what their viewers already believe. I have yet to meet anyone who says, “I used to be a liberal, but then I found Fox News.”

    , because since the demise of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 any pushback against the misinformation has been tepid and often isolated from watchers of the propaganda channels.

    I grew up under the Fairness Doctrine. Much of it was bullshit. Programs had an obligation to air “both sides” of an issue, but too often the advocate of one side or another was a boring hack, and the fact that there might be multiple, valid viewpoints was often ignored.

    And didn’t Fox have some show that was “fair and balanced” by having one host who was supposedly liberal?

    The Fairness Doctrine may have had some limited value when you had three (and then four) national broadcast TV networks and a relatively limited number of radio stations. But even then, I think it accomplished far less than people want to believe.

    There’s an entire generation that have never been exposed to unbiased media.

    There has never been an unbiased media in this country (or most democratic nations). And unbiased does not necessarily mean unfair or inaccurate. The pamphleteers who had their works printed prior to the Founding of the United States clearly had their own strong biases, and the only Fairness Doctrine needed was that of an individual conscience.

    Jefferson and Hamilton regularly ghost wrote columns in the newspapers of the day, sometimes taking both sides of an argument. Hamilton even founded the New York Post in 1801 so that he could bash the Federalists.

    And in the UK, anyone who subscribes to the Daily Mail, the Telegraph, or the Guardian, even the Financial Times, knows what political perspective he or she is getting.

  196. 196

    @jl: Smocking. No smocking gun.

  197. 197
    jl says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Sadly, Cole is not a central casting type of guy for duty in Trump WH. And when he goes into grouchy ass old man mode, Trump will go apeshit because Cole is getting too much attention.

    Would be a short but glorious reign though. Maybe we slap some older male model’s pic on the fake resume and see if that works. Or we could slap on a young Cole pic.

  198. 198
    Martin says:

    @Kay:

    Exactly. When Trump says that steel mills or auto plants are opening, there’s a word for that- propaganda. He’s giving it the legitimacy of the US. It’s state-produced and disseminated lies, intended to prop up his administration.

    Exactly. Even calling it a lie is a bit disingenuous. Generally we think of lying as an individual act. This is more than that – this is a coordinated effort of disinformation. Now, a lot of it is after the fact getting stories in line, but it’s straight up propaganda and they need to call it out as such.

  199. 199
    Yarrow says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: The dictionary fights back.

    Today in Spellcheck Can't Save You:

    'Smocking' is a type of embroidery made of many small folds sewn into place. https://t.co/3wbxPG24ne— Merriam-Webster (@MerriamWebster) December 10, 2018

  200. 200
    Fair Economist says:

    @jl:

    Did Trump really put out a tweet that had ‘NO SMOKING GUN!’ in it?

    No, he said there was no *smocking* gun (with a ‘k’). Which would mean he doesn’t have a gun for performing sewing embellishments, which is probably one of his rare truthful statements.

    (Just mocking the smocking here.)

  201. 201
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Fair Economist: When you are off the map, can you really be over your skis?

  202. 202
    jl says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: OK. Thanks. What’s a ‘smocking gun’? Trump needs some gadget for new obscure hobby? Is that what McDonalds uses to shoot goop into their pies?

  203. 203
    Martin says:

    @Brachiator:

    And didn’t Fox have some show that was “fair and balanced” by having one host who was supposedly liberal?

    That was Hannity and Colmes. We can see how well that worked out.

    But Stewart’s takedown of Crossfire and Tucker individually was great, but needed to happen every day since.

  204. 204
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @jl:

    Would be a short but glorious reign though. Maybe we slap some older male model’s pic on the fake resume and see if that works.

    Trump worked with Bannon and that guy looks like a hunk of decaying raw meat, but I do like the idea of Cole in a mask.

    Alternative suggestion – Baud. Baud has experience with failing at running for office and has that common dudesky vibe Trump loves. Plus Trump will love Baud’s theory of saving the +5% uncertainty in the polls up for the election itself. Draw back will be cars on blocks in the front lawn of the White House.

  205. 205
    chopper says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    it sounds like something a kindergarten teacher would come up with. “oh johnny, have you been telling fibs again? that’s a pinocchio for you! (puts sticker on wall)”

  206. 206
    chopper says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    i hate when i hear people smacking gum. no
    smacking gum!

  207. 207
    Elizabelle says:

    From WaPost story about Butina reaching a deal with prosecutors.

    Butina was prosecuted by the U.S. attorney’s office in Washington, rather than special counsel Robert S. Mueller III — an indication that Mueller may have determined that her activities did not directly connect to his investigation, which involves scrutinizing any links between Russia and President Trump’s campaign.

    Still, Butina intersected with Trump’s campaign several times before the 2016 election. …

    I don’t know about that; strikes me as supposition by the journalists. Butina’s gonna be on ice for a while, even if not that long —

    With the plea deal, Butina could be released in coming months and deported to Russia.

    but couldn’t Mueller take a severe interest in her down the road, while she is still in custody?

  208. 208
    boatboy_srq says:

    @MattF: Everything about Individual 1 is transactional, and the only positive transaction is one that makes Individual 1 appear better/smarter/wealthier.

  209. 209
    Neldob says:

    @JWR: Please write them.

  210. 210
    Immanentize says:

    @chopper: “… nevermind…”
    My favorite was “What’s all this about Soviet jewelry….”

  211. 211
    zhena gogolia says:

    @jl:

    Put Warren William’s picture on the resume. That’ll appeal to Trump.

    https://www.pinterest.com/beckerton82/mr-warren-william/

  212. 212
    JWR says:

    @Neldob:

    @JWR: Please write them.

    I will do that! (Just as soon as I’m done smocking. ;-) )

  213. 213
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    There’s a story about Falwell’s son that looks black-maily. he’s got some weird relationship with a 21 year old male

    They literally call him ‘ the pool boy’

    No…nothing suspicious about that in the least.

  214. 214

    @JWR: I have horrible memories of smocking. We had a needlework/sewing class in school and we had to make a dress for a baby and smocking was involved. I hated that stupid class with a passion. Also too, knitting and crocheting.

  215. 215
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Also too, knitting and crocheting.

    I believe Betty knits.

  216. 216
  217. 217

    @TenguPhule: Mnem does. I hate it, probably because I had no choice but to take that class. I haven’t picked up knitting needles after I finished the class project, which was knitting booties for an infant.

  218. 218
    Immanentize says:

    @RedDirtGirl: Why did you send me to an article that uses the word “neoliberal” un-ironically in the first sentence?
    :-)

  219. 219
    JWR says:

    Is anyone else bothered that Jason Leopold has risen again, to no less than being interviewed by NPR? I am. The last thing we need is more misinformation floating around. So, is he redeemed? (Not that he’s making stuff up, but I have a hard time taking him very seriously.)

    Just in case: Leopold was the guy who said, back during “Fitzmas”, that he had “Bullet Proof” evidence Karl Rove had been indicted. I actually have the audio of that interview around here someplace or another.

  220. 220
    rikyrah says:

    @bemused:

    George Conway criticized trump for saying Cohen report cleared him. I can’t even begin to understand how marriages like George and Kellyanne work but Carville and Matalin are still married. What puzzles me more is why Kellyanne is still working in the WH. Trump can’t be happy about George’s tweets.

    It’s a scam. Kellyanne doesn’t work for Dolt45.
    They both work for THE MERCERS.

  221. 221
    RedDirtGirl says:

    @Immanentize: You weren’t supposed to read it! ; )

  222. 222
    Searcher says:

    @Kay:
    How would you feel about a four point rating scale:

    “Honest Abe” for presidential statements that are, you know, true.
    “Slick Willy” for statements that are deceptive or lies about personal matters.
    “Tricky Dick” for lies covering up crimes, corruption, and light treason.
    “Trump” for lies that our outrageous, nonsensical, and propaganda.

  223. 223
    Yarrow says:

    @rikyrah: Exactly. They’re working both sides of the system for their own benefit. So frustrating that people can’t see that.

  224. 224
    NotMax says:

    “After 20 deaths, we’re going to call them bottomless massacres.”

    Sheesh.

  225. 225
    prostratedragon says:

    Linked by rikyah earlier today: “Don’t ever let them wash off his stink” on the Republicans. There is nothing under the sun with which I agree more. The thread should be a daily devotional, orienting thoughts and actions.

  226. 226
    Mnemosyne says:

    @ruemara:

    AOC has turned out to be much more pragmatic than she seemed to be at first, which pleases me but pisses off the pony-wishing brigade.

  227. 227
    matt says:

    the Post is still applying the standards of a pluralistic democracy to a fascist movement that pretends to be a political party in a pluralistic democracy. God DAMN people are stupid.

  228. 228
    bemused says:

    @rikyrah:

    I forgot about the Mercer connection. However, I still wonder why tissue thin skin trump isn’t thumping Kellyanne about her husband’s tweets.

  229. 229
    Fleeting Expletive says:

    Somebody please set up a caption contest for the picture of Shit eating grin Rick Santorum with his thumb and three creepting tentackles around Mariia Butina”s waist. Its at the twitter of Pedro Nicolaci da Costa, whom I did not know but I think now I will follow. Sriously, you have to see it. This is a lot of typos for me but I’m snickering. Schaden freuded all up in here.

  230. 230
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax:

    “After 20 deaths, we’re going to call them bottomless massacres.”

    Thread won.

  231. 231
    Aleta says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I never even made it to smocking. My teacher despaired of me, and I was let go after eventually (traumatically for them) meeting the requirement “Apron, with pocket.”

  232. 232
  233. 233
    JWR says:

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    Somebody please set up a caption contest for the picture of Shit eating grin Rick Santorum with his thumb and three creepting tentackles around Mariia Butina”s waist.

    Here ya go

  234. 234
    catclub says:

    @RedDirtGirl: Theresa May has already lasted about 15 months longer than anyone expected her to,
    which is about 18 months longer than any other gormless leader the Tories are likely to find, so I am not going to underestimate her staying power.

  235. 235
    Aleta says:

    (Guardian) There were no seats available, so the mother sat on the floor in a corner, according to witness Monae Sinclair, who posted the video on Facebook. A security guard told her to stand, and when she refused, called police.

    “She had her baby in her hands the whole time,” Sinclair wrote. “I’m a mother myself & I would’ve lost my fucking mind if this was me they would’ve had to kill me.”

    Headley remains locked up on Rikers Island, charged with criminal trespassing, resisting arrest, acting in a manner injurious to a child, and obstruction of governmental administration.

    The Brooklyn borough president, Eric Adams, a former NYPD captain, plans to visit the HRA office on Monday and call for the charges to be dropped.

    “Something’s terribly wrong when the most well-trained police department can’t resolve a dispute with a mother and child without looking like @RealDonaldTrump‘s southern border strategy,” he said. “We must do better.”
    The NYPD in a statement called the incident “troubling”.

    Headley’s mother told ABC 7 that she had gone to the office to apply for a voucher for daycare for her son, so she could take a job as a cleaner.

    “I was devastated to see something like that happen to my daughter and grandson. And how this officer was yanking on my grandson to get him out of my daughter’s arms,” said the mother, Jacqueline Jenkins.

    Headley refused medical attention for herself and the one-year-old boy, and no officers were injured, according to the NYPD. A family member took custody of the baby.

    The Brooklyn city councilman Steve Levin, who chairs the general welfare committee, said a witness told him Headley “was not acting erratically or in any way a risk to her child”.

    NYPD officers have received training in de-escalation of conflicts [me: required after they murdered Eric Garner in broad daylight on the street], but critics said the opposite was in evidence in the video.

    Sickening video; the same officer who was yanking on the 1 yr old also waves a taser at the bystanders for protesting and at their children.

  236. 236
    prostratedragon says:

    A bus company had a driver who at best was not very good. On one of his more lackadaisical days he drove the bus down a ravine, killing everyone aboard.

    Later the company hired a driver whose head was literally screwed on backwards, making it impossible simultaneously to operate the vehicle and see the road. This driver also was reluctant, to say the least, to accept guidance from others who actually could see ahead. The company director justified not removing the driver, as at least the new driver had not got everyone killed in a crash.

  237. 237
    catclub says:

    @prostratedragon: I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

  238. 238
    Immanentize says:

    @JWR: I liked, “Treason Prom”

  239. 239
    Yarrow says:

    @Immanentize: It looks like they slightly coordinated their outfits. His tie looks like it has some yellow in it, just like her weird safety harness belt.

  240. 240
    Immanentize says:

    @Yarrow: True! But where is her wrist corsage?

    Meanwhile, right here is some mighty fine writing by Charles Pierce (sadly now behind a paywall at Esquire):

    Comey is as explicit as he’s ever been about his inability to discipline the FBI’s New York office, which had an obsession with the Clintons bigger than the one Maureen Dowd has been toting around since 1991.

  241. 241
    Yarrow says:

    @Immanentize: LOL. That’s funny. I was able to access the article via google. Looks like you just get a few views before they cut you off, though.

  242. 242
    The Moar You Know says:

    Is anyone else bothered that Jason Leopold has risen again, to no less than being interviewed by NPR?

    @JWR: Hugely. Think he’s house staff at RawStory these days. He should not be allowed to speak to the public, nor write.

  243. 243
    Aleta says:

    NYPD again

    (Dec. 6, NYT) When a woman who was 40 weeks pregnant went into labor last February inside a police holding cell in the Bronx, officers took her to a hospital. Once inside, they handcuffed her wrists to the bed and shackled her ankles.

    Doctors at Montefiore Medical Center warned that the restraints were illegal in New York and posed serious risks for a woman in labor, but the officers said the department’s Patrol Guide required them to restrain her, superseding state law, according to a lawsuit filed on Thursday.

    The woman, then 27, struggled for nearly an hour in excruciating labor on Feb. 8 before the officers yielded and removed some of the restraints. … She delivered the baby with her right hand still cuffed to the hospital bed. [Me: and then had to feed her baby with one hand.]
    ……
    … A doctor wrote in hospital notes that officers, when informed that state law prevented shackling, said “the N.Y.P.D. Patrol Guide supersedes this law and that patient would need to remain restrained during remainder of hospitalization.” The guide, which is the official manual of police protocol, … permits officers to remove the restraints when doctors request it and after consulting with a patrol supervisor. The officers at the hospital did consult a sergeant after the woman and her doctors asked them to remove the shackles, but the sergeant said the restraints were required, the complaint states.

    Dr. Carolyn Sufrin, an assistant professor in gynecology and obstetrics at Johns Hopkins Medicine, said a lack of comprehensive data about pregnant women in jails and prisons makes it difficult to study their experiences. “The people who don’t count, don’t get counted,” she said.

    New York is one of 26 states that prohibit shackling women in labor, Dr. Sufrin said, and some go as far as banning restraints for all pregnant women in custody. In the other 24 states, no state or federal law limits the practice, she said. … A number of groups have called on Congress to pass the First Step Act, bipartisan legislation in the Senate that, among other things, would ban the handcuffing of pregnant women in federal prison.

    New York banned the use of physical restraints on pregnant women during labor and delivery in 2009, and the law was expanded in 2015 to include in-custody transportation and the eight-week postpartum recovery period. But the New York Correctional Association said the practice persists.

    Eight months before Ms. Doe was arrested, the city settled a similar lawsuit. … A Bronx woman was eight months pregnant when officers from the 43rd Precinct shackled her to a bed at Montefiore for three days after an arrest in July 2015. The charges against her were ultimately dismissed.

    “[This draconian treatment,] particularly when [women] stand accused of a misdemeanor, speaks volumes about the macho culture of police departments and corrections,” Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said.

    Jane Doe was finally freed from the restraints nine hours after giving birth, after a judge arraigned her in her hospital bed on a charge of violating a protective order, her lawyer, Katherine Rosenfeld, said. The case stemmed from an ongoing child-custody dispute with her former partner. Jane Doe spent nearly 30 hours in police custody, according to the complaint.

    “The fact that they disregarded the medical advice of doctors suggests that they didn’t use any humanity and sort of blindly followed what they perceived to be the policy in the Patrol Guide,” Ms. Rosenfeld said.

    (The Hill) “There was no urgent need to arrest Plaintiff that day by any stretch of the imagination,” according to the lawsuit, reported by ABC News. 

  244. 244
    Kay says:

    @Searcher:

    How would you feel about a four point rating scale:

    No, I’m sorry I cannot allow that :)

    They don’t have to call them “lies”. I’m not that much of a stickler. But they probably shouldn’t turn their whole accountability mission into a joke. This thing between Trump and media is a dance. It’s not wholly one-sided. They have some power in this relationship. I just want them to admit that- that they’re not poor ink-stained wretches tossed along on Trumpian seas, that they have some agency, some control. Be serious if you want your work to be taken seriously.

  245. 245
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    This thing between Trump and media is a dance.

    Where both parties are naked, the music is reggae, the floor is shards of glass and the DJ is SHS.

  246. 246
    bemused says:

    @catclub:

    I thought that joke was hilarious until a good friend fell asleep while driving, verved into an overpass structure. She, her teen daughter and three of her daughters’ friends died. Only one friend survived. I can’t hear that joke without thinking of them.

  247. 247
    TenguPhule says:

    @Immanentize:

    Comey is as explicit as he’s ever been about his inability to discipline the FBI’s New York office

    Grounds for firing and taking away his pension right there.

  248. 248
    JWR says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    @JWR: Hugely.

    Thank you! When was Fitzmas, 2006? I was wondering if he’d made certain that his “bullet proof” scoops were, you know, bullet proof since then. But I very seldom read Raw Story anymore. (Their video links, and no others, always nearly crash my system.)

    PS. This not saving usernames and passwords. It seems to save mine only if I don’t check the “save username and password” box. Weird.

  249. 249
    JWR says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    @JWR: Hugely. Think he’s house staff at RawStory these days. He should not be allowed to speak to the public, nor write.

    Also too, maybe hearing from people like Leopold on NPR makes it okay for them to have Goldberg? If it were up to me, I think I’d choose a far better Liberal than JL.

    Ha ha. Back during the days of Fitzmas, we commenters at FDL, (yeah, I’m guilty as sin), would have to spell his name J*s*n L**p*ld to get past their spam filter.

  250. 250
    TenguPhule says:

    Citing a source who CNN says has read a transcript of the audio recording of Khashoggi’s final moments at the Saudi embassy in Istanbul, Khashoggi’s final words were: “I can’t breathe” before the sounds of a saw can be heard.

    The transcript notes the noises that can be heard on the tape, almost in the manner that subtitles describe moments in movies where there is no dialogue.

    “Scream.”

    “Scream.”

    “Gasping.”

    Then, the transcript notes other descriptions.

    “Saw.”

    “Cutting.”

    [Dr. Salah Muhammad] al-Tubaiqi [the head of forensic medicine at Saudi Arabia’s Interior Ministry, who has been linked with Khashoggi’s murder] is noted giving some advice to other people in the room, apparently to help them deal with the appalling task.

    Put your earphones in, or listen to music like me.”

  251. 251

    @Fair Economist:

    Heck, why not get over our skis?

    Gin & Tonic tried that, it didn’t end well.

  252. 252
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I have horrible memories of smocking.

    I didn’t even know that smocking was a thing. I associated it with a nonsense word said by comedian Steve Allen on his late night tv show.

  253. 253
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I found you have to have a good landing plan before takeoff.

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