After the High

The euphoria of reading the Trump/Cohen/Manafort documents is starting to wear off, as the realization that the Republicans in the Senate won’t do anything about it.

Also, Hillary warned us about all of this before the election.






105 replies
  1. 1
    Mart says:

    Watched a bit of no collusion Fox News. Unbelievable.

  2. 2

    Watching K-pop, still feeling alright.

  3. 3
    Jeffro says:

    Give it a bit, John. We don’t need all of them to come around; just 17 or so.

    Also, too: just picture (whether they come around or not) this shit hanging over Trumpov and the GOP for two more years. Heck one Infrastructure Week = eternity, what will 104 Infrastructure Weeks feel like come 2020?

    (to the GOP, I mean…try not to think about what it’ll feel like to us…)

  4. 4
    NotMax says:

    Can you say “albatross?”

    Never say never.

  5. 5
    Adam L Silverman says:

    This should perk you up a bit. Some good news:

  6. 6
    eemom says:

    Oh fer fuxsake.

    #ColeDowner #Colebuzzkill #ColeEeyore

    Did it only NOW occur to you that the fuckscum senate isn’t going to do anything??

    That’s not the point.

  7. 7
    Platonailedit says:

    Admission to heaven is 90% determined by spelling and grammar.

    — God (@TheTweetOfGod) December 7, 2018

  8. 8
    rikyrah says:

    Cole…you knew that…
    Don’t be down.

  9. 9
    rikyrah says:

    But, yes, Hillary told us.
    She told us all.

  10. 10
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Isn’t the Ninth Circuit the circuit court Trump loves to hate?

  11. 11
    Wag says:

    I follow The Atlantic on the book of faces, and tonight they treated me to Hunter S Thompson’s obit for Nixon. Substitute “Trump” every time you see “Nixon “ in this paragraph, and you have a perfect description of our current dear leader

    Let there be no mistake in the history books about that. Richard Nixon was an evil man — evil in a way that only those who believe in the physical reality of the Devil can understand it. He was utterly without ethics or morals or any bedrock sense of decency. Nobody trusted him — except maybe the Stalinist Chinese, and honest historians will remember him mainly as a rat who kept scrambling to get back on the ship…

    Some people will say that words like scum and rotten are wrong for Objective Journalism — which is true, but they miss the point. It was the built-in blind spots of the Objective rules and dogma that allowed Nixon to slither into the White House in the first place. He looked so good on paper that you could almost vote for him sight unseen. He seemed so all-American, so much like Horatio Alger, that he was able to slip through the cracks of Objective Journalism. You had to get Subjective to see Nixon clearly, and the shock of recognition was often painful.

  12. 12
    The Dangerman says:

    He will never be convicted in the Senate, but resignation IS a possibility, and, if too damaged, he won’t make it out of the primary (which should make for a FUN convention).

  13. 13
    SenyorDave says:

    I want hearings in the House on everything. Even minor shit like Ivanka’s emails – make her life miserable.

  14. 14
    Gozer says:

    @The Dangerman: He’ll never resign. Even if he loses in 2020 (primary or general) he’ll have to be forcibly removed.

  15. 15
    PhoenixRising says:

    Oh quitcher bitchin, Cole.

    Nanci is gonna go full LBJ on their asses (‘Don’t matter if he wasn’t caught in flagrante with a sheep, I wanna hear him deny it!’). The Senators are gonna be trapped between a rock and a hard place–vote to let a treasonous felon who stole the election off the hook? Or vote to convict? they can’t win that one. Pence hasn’t been indicted or named yet but Manafort picked him while Trump was in the air & then quit being a volunteer campaign manager…this is just the overture, we are a long way from the fat lady singing.

  16. 16
    The Dangerman says:

    @Gozer:

    He’ll never resign.

    Almost certainly not, I agree, but it’s a possibility. As I said downstairs, if he resigns, he gets indicted.

    But, he could get impeached and we’ll have the Senators have to explain their vote; that should be fun, too.

    As for being forcibly removed, that can be arranged.

  17. 17
    jl says:

    @Gozer: Maybe a good spraying with Orange Oil will do the trick. Force him to run out and into the arms of the secret service who can get him off our property.

  18. 18
    Jay says:

    @jl:

    Kick in the door, flash bang, tear gas, cuffs.

    Maybe bang his head on the car door frame when putting him in the back seat.

  19. 19
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Wag: No, Nixon was bog standard right wing. Evil, but in an ordered way. Trump is just a loathsome piece of shit.

  20. 20
    Mary G says:

    I doubt we can get rid of him before his term is up, but I want these to be the worst two years of his life.

  21. 21
    Jeffro says:

    @Jay:

    Maybe bang his head on the car door frame when putting him in the back seat.

    that sounds familiar and more than vaguely karmic…

    …me likey!

  22. 22
    Princess says:

    It doesn’t matter what the Republicans do or don’t so. We need to call for him to resign and we need to demand he not be allowed to fill any cabinet positions, especially AG. Not because we think it will work, but because the president is a felon and it is right thing to demand.

  23. 23
    Yarrow says:

    They won’t be going straight for Trump. There are plenty of Republican traitors that need to be dealt with. Pressure will be put on them and we’ll see some resignations in the Senate. Like any mob roll up, it starts with the outside and moves in. These Cohen and Manafort documents will scare some people and they’ll decide they need to spend more time with their families.

    The House isn’t going to go straight to impeachment. That’s a dumb move. Investigate. Get people in front of committees. Meanwhile Mueller’s investigation keeps rolling up traitors.

    By the time enough pressure has been put on certain traitorous individuals the Senate will decide the right thing to do is to vote to impeach Trump, if he hasn’t resigned or otherwise left office.

  24. 24
    sdhays says:

    @Mary G: I want each subsequent year to be the worst year of his life.

  25. 25
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    So, if I’m understanding the documents right, Cohen and Trump et al lied about the timeline regarding the Trump Moscow project, which could have resulted in getting hundreds of millions of dollars, which could have been a bribe or even funds for money laundering, all while the campaign was going on, when the Russian government was trying to interfere the most in the Presidential election. Additionally, “Individual 1” (Trump) was fully aware of the decisions being made and participated in them. Additionally, Cohen claims Trump knew and wanted to meet with Putin to discuss information pertinent to the campaign.

    Is this basically the gist?

  26. 26

    Hey, it is at least the end of the beginning.

  27. 27
    Platonailedit says:

    Fuck AP, the stenographers.

    BREAKING: A news organization shouldn’t tweet obvious lies without noting they are obvious lies.mdash; Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) December 8, 2018

    try again, this time without carrying water for the powerful

    — Media Matters (@mmfa) December 8, 2018

  28. 28
    Aleta says:

    I wish for Senate Republicans increasing paranoia and inability to sleep, both forms of torture.

  29. 29
    MomSense says:

    @Yarrow:

    Pence needs to go first.

  30. 30
    Another Scott says:

    I don’t think we should try to predict what might happen in the next couple of years. We’re so far off the map (as Adam reminds us) that history and norms aren’t much of a predictor. Politicians want more than anything to win elections. If they have to change their minds about Donnie to save their skins, they will.

    Donnie is 72. He’s in horrible shape. He has high cholesterol even though he is taking a statin. He has a very stressful job, and is a known hot-head. He could very well die in office or become incapacitated.

    I wonder if Melania has been reading up on Edith Wilson.

    Exhausted, he nevertheless insisted on crossing the country by train to sell them on the idea, in October of 1919. There was little enthusiasm. He pushed harder. Then, he collapsed from physical exhaustion. Rushed back to the White House, he suffered a massive stroke. Edith found him unconscious on the floor of his bathroom. It was soon apparent to all that Wilson could not fully function.

    Edith Wilson firmly stepped in and began making decisions. Consulting with physicians, she would not even consider making her husband resign and have the Vice President take over. That would only depress her Woodrow. Her loving dedication to protect him by whatever means were necessary might have been admirable for a love story, but in declaring that she only cared about him as a person, not as a president, Mrs. Wilson revealed a selfish ignorance leading her to decide that she and the President came before the normal functioning of the executive branch of government.

    [ image ]

    The first move in establishing what she called her “stewardship” was to mislead the entire nation, from the Cabinet to Congress to the press and the people. Vetting the carefully crafted medical bulletins that were publicly released, she would only permit an acknowledgement that Wilson badly needed rest and would be working from his bedroom suite. When individual Cabinet members came to confer the President, they went no further than the First Lady. If they had policy papers or pending decisions for him to review, edit or approve, she would first look over the material herself. If she deemed the matter pressing enough, she took the paperwork into her husband’s room where she claimed she would read all the necessary documents to him.

    It was a bewildering way to run a government, but the officials waited in the West Sitting Room hallway. When she came back to them after conferring with the President, Mrs. Wilson turned over their paperwork, now riddled with indecipherable margin notes that she said were the President’s transcribed verbatim responses. To some, the shaky handwriting looked less like that written by an invalid and more like that of his nervous caretaker.

    Hmmm….

    :-/

    We can’t wait for The Fates (or Mueller) to fix things for us.

    “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” – Frederick Douglass.

    We have to continue to work every single day for the future we want. Letting our representatives know what we want and expect them to do, advocacy, donating, voting, etc., etc.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  31. 31
    Sloegin says:

    R’s in the Senate are co-conspirators. They’ll defend him to the bitter end. Deny everything, apologize for nothing, never change course. You’d think there was no honor among thieves, but this is about Party first and last. Just look at North Carolina, Michigan, and Wisconsin as examples

  32. 32
    Yarrow says:

    @MomSense: Probably not before his traitorous cronies in the Senate. Scare them and/or get them out of there so when Pence goes they don’t approve another traitor to replace him.

  33. 33
    patroclus says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Good summary but there’s more: (1) Cohen not only lied to Congress about the timeline (Individual 1 Tower in Moscow discussions ending in 1/16), he also circulated his false timeline to others and made public statements designed to have everyone get their (false) stories straight; (2) Cohen talked to others (Uday? Kusay? Individual 1?) about the false timeline and other matters after inauguration; and (3) prosecutors allege and apparently believe that Individual 1 ordered the payments to the bimbos – previously this was only Cohen’s statements at plea hearing. This all means evidence of conspiracy involving others as well as indicating that the prosecutors believe that Individual 1 is directly involved in crimes. Plus, it clearly implies that all this is merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

  34. 34
    Mart says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Trump also was likely aware of breaking campaign finance law by paying off the two women. Story from late this August, “David Pecker, the head of the company that publishes the National Enquirer, was granted immunity in the federal investigation into President Trump…” Pecker is the one who buried the Karen McDougal / Trump story. Pecker supposedly has a safe full of famous people blackmail stories. So much is going down. It will be a Tsunami rising higher and higher until he is crushed under it.

  35. 35
    Karen says:

    @Gozer:

    @The Dangerman: He’ll never resign. Even if he loses in 2020 (primary or general) he’ll have to be forcibly removed.

    But if the military needs to drag him out will they act against the the President?

  36. 36
    NotMax says:

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    If you can, watch tonight’s (Friday’s) Lawrence O’Donnell show, The Last Word. Clear, concise laying out of the events, with a thoughtful roster of guests providing sober and experienced context. Very good job overall, a cut above the usual.

  37. 37
    OldDave says:

    @Karen: Ah, but he won’t be the President once 46 takes the oath of office.

  38. 38
    Mart says:

    @patroclus:

    Plus, it clearly implies that all this is merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

    It will be a Tsunami rising higher and higher until he is crushed under it.

    Well which is it, crushed by an Iceberg or Tsunami?

  39. 39
    sdhays says:

    @Another Scott: I don’t think THLOTUS gives a damn about whatever PP wants. If Spankee gets into a Wilson situation, “Melanie” will be the first to pull the ripcord.

  40. 40
    jl says:

    @Karen: If Trump loses the primary or general election, he won’t be president anymore. Mattis is going to lift a finger to help Trump after the 2020 election (should Trump still be in office)? I don’t think so. Whatever you think of Mattis, think by now should be clear he has no use for Trump at all and feels he is there as a firewall.

    Edit: except for some reason Mattis is starting to mouth off. Maybe Mattis won’t be there. But I heard on the news that Kelly’s firing is delayed because Trump is a coward and doesn’t have anyone who can fire a big general for him.

    Maybe if Trump goes bonkers and wants to stay, raving about umpty ump stolen votes and the dirty feds won’t do to him what they did to Al Capone, they won’t raid the WH. Just cordon it off and set up the transition someplace nearby while people figure out that to do with the nutso. The nice man with the football walks off from WH after the term is over and doesn’t come back after probably answering to Mattis personally for two and a half months. Trump will be a regular civilian then and not the military’s problem. Something for civil authorities to deal with.

  41. 41
    NotMax says:

    @Karen

    Law enforcement is not the job of the military.

  42. 42
    MobiusKlein says:

    @Karen: After 12:01 on Inauguration day, he’s just some guy.

  43. 43
    sdhays says:

    @Mart: Why not an iceberg floating on a tsunami?

  44. 44
    Johnnybuck says:

    Get all the facts, impeach, and then jam Mitch and the 22 refucks running for reelection in’20.

    Then pass the popcorn

  45. 45
    Cacti says:

    The GOP is a criminal organization, not a political party.

  46. 46
    jl says:

    @Cacti: For some reason, that really started to dawn on me personally during the G.H.W. Bush administration. The whole party had gone off in a very bad direction and wasn’t coming back Couldn’t keep that out of my head while trying to think respectful and edifying thoughts last week.

  47. 47
    Yarrow says:

    @Cacti: Yep. Reince Priebus has been awfully quiet.

  48. 48
    Wag says:

    @MomSense:

    Agreed, but not before Pelosi is sworn in as Speaker of the House, making her third in line for the Presidency.

  49. 49
    kindness says:

    Honestly if a video got out of Trump professing loyalty and fealty to Putin and Mother Russia, Republicans in the Senate would do nothing. The low bar is if the House still had a Republican majority, they would call for a new investigation……of Hillary Clinton. And the MSM would parrot just that.

  50. 50
    Yarrow says:

    @kindness: The media has plenty of traitors in it. Need to clean house there too.

  51. 51
    moops says:

    Don’t even bother trying to impeach him. Impeachment is political and the GOP Senate will never budge on that one. Indict him, and imprison him. He can serve the rest of his Presidency from a prison cell. He won’t resign, and the Senate won’t make him, so he can be our first imprisoned President. He does absolutely nothing productive at the WH, the government will function the same or better with him behind bars. When he finishes his term for treason he can start his terms for money laundering and racketeering and tax evasion. He should die during his prison sentence.

  52. 52
    SFAW says:

    @Johnnybuck:

    Get all the facts, impeach, and then jam Mitch and the 22 refucks running for reelection in’20.

    And have someone appropriate ask, every day until the 2020 elections, “Why are/did Mitch McConnell and the rest of the Republicans trying to protect the criminal in the Oval Office? Why are they trying to destroy America? Why are they trying to turn the USA into the United States of Russia?”

    Repetition of Rethug lies helped get us where we are today; repetition of Dem/American truth will help get things back to where they should be.

  53. 53
    smintheus says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: We also learn more about the charges against Manafort, specifically that he lied *multiple times* to the Special Counsel about his contacts with an apparent Russian spy, Konstantin Kilimnik, whom Manafort met with at least twice while he was working on Trump’s campaign. Manafort and Kilimnik have both tried to portray these meetings in 2016 as “personal” get togethers between friends, which had nothing to do with the campaign.

    The Kilimnik connection could be a very big problem for Trump. Not every presidential candidate’s campaign manager sits down secretly with Russian military spies, and then keeps lying about it.

  54. 54

    @Another Scott: Of course, the 25th Amendment, Section 4 didn’t exist in Wison’s time.

  55. 55

    @Yarrow: If Pence were to leave any replacement would also have to be approved my Nancy SMASH’s House.

  56. 56
    NotMax says:

    @moops

    If there is proof of crime or complicity in crime while in office and the House does not move to impeach based on that evidence, then the House has abrogated its duties under the Constitution.

  57. 57
    Mike in DC says:

    The impeachment proceedings are not starting next week. A lot can and will happen between now and when this lands in the Senate’s lap. The pressure that can and should be brought to bear must be without precedent.

  58. 58
    SFAW says:

    @moops:

    Unlike the Clinton impeachment, which was clearly a crock of shit, this impeachment, as with Nixon’s impending impeachment, would be the real deal. And the electoral results in the 1974 mid-terms were even better (in terms of pickups, Wikipedia tells me 49 of them) than this year.

    The Senate Rethugs won’t convict? Maybe, maybe not. But either way, impeachment — assuming things look as bad or worse for Idiot 1 as today’s filing indicates — is probably a winner for the Dems.

    Also: I’m hoping that next week’s Infrastructure Week is even better than this one was. But I’m not sure I should be allowed to have that much fun.

  59. 59
    James E Powell says:

    The truth is that the Republican senators are more corrupt and more evil than Trump. Almost all of them were senators before Trump and they all assume they are going to be senators after Trump. The revulsion of the nation is not going to change the fact that the voters in their respective states are racist morons. Thought it is possible that their confidence is unwarranted, they believe they can’t lose an election.

  60. 60
    NotMax says:

    @Mike in DC

    Absolutely, nor in January. After Mueller’s final report is released and the weight and depth of evidence reviewed, then any appropriate hearings can commence.

  61. 61
    trollhattan says:

    How far from the White House to the Ecuadoran Embassy?

    Asking for a fiend.

  62. 62
    SFAW says:

    @NotMax:

    then the House has abrogated its duties under the Constitution.

    Who initiates Articles of Impeachment? Judiciary? Speaker Moulton? Minority Leader? Or just anyone whom Speaker Moulton designates?

    NB: I just threw the “Moulton” in there to get a rise out of youse kids. But I think it would be good fun if Nancy SMASH asked Moulton to draw them up.

  63. 63
    SFAW says:

    @trollhattan:

    Asking for a fiend.

    Good one

  64. 64
    Mike in NC says:

    Watching a movie made 20 years ago called “American History X” with Edward Norton as a Los Angeles skinhead leader complaining about illegal immigrants and non-whites. Perfectly applies to the modern era of Trumpism.

  65. 65
    moops says:

    @NotMax: Trumps crimes do not matter if he was in office at the time. His crimes also should not depend on a political action from either house. Impeachment is political, indictment is legal. Give up on impeachment. The whole GOP is on board with keeping Trump as President. So, he can be President from prison.

  66. 66

    OT: The Astronomy Picture of the Day has a pretty cool “Tiny Planet” timelapse.

  67. 67
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @SFAW:

    NB: I just threw the “Moulton” in there to get a rise out of youse kids. But I think it would be good fun if Nancy SMASH asked Moulton to draw them up.

    You rank amateur. It would obviously be Speaker Tim Ryan calling the shots.

  68. 68

    @trollhattan: Tell your fiend, it’s 1.8 miles from the Oval.

  69. 69
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @moops:
    Question: who’s going to file charges of indictment against the sitting POTUS? More importantly, who’s going to arrest him? Will the SS let, for example, the US Marshalls, arrest the sitting POTUS?

  70. 70
    TS (the original) says:

    @SenyorDave:

    Even minor sh!t like Ivanka’s emails

    emails are major sh!t – the GOP has been telling us this for 4 years

  71. 71
    NotMax says:

    @moops

    This was front and center during Watergate. DOJ guidance and precedent is that impeachment is the primary and preferred method. Not necessarily saying I agree, but there it is.

  72. 72
    eemom says:

    It’s worth noting that the gleaming jewel in the USA SDNY’s Cohen memo — “as Cohen himself has now admitted, with respect to both payments [to Dump’s paramours], he acted in coordination with and at the direction of Individual-1” — has an advantage over all the Russia stuff, in being simpler than shit and easily comprehensible to even the dumbest of trumptards.

    Not saying THEY would have the sense to care — but nevertheless, directing the payoff of the ladies is a simple, screamingly obvious and utterly contemptible crime by Individual Onetard. I think that makes it more valuable as a news item than the hopelessly convoluted Russia shit.

  73. 73
    moops says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    All good questions. We have arrested Governors, we have arrested Senators, we have arrested Congressmen, we have arrested high level staff in the White House.

    We are now in a world where the sitting President is Individual 1. A known felon whom the SCO has multiple other lines of evidence. Now, the DOJ is the agency that should charge someone with campaign and election crimes, up to outright treason.

    So, Barr is a problem.

  74. 74

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Will the SS let, for example, the US Marshalls, arrest the sitting POTUS?

    Yes, they would. The Secret Service is only charged with protecting the President’s physical wellbeing.

  75. 75
    Aleta says:

    (WaPo) More details emerged Friday about Veterans Affairs Secretary Robert Wilkie’s past commemoration of Confederate leaders with his remarks in a 1995 speech praising the president of the Confederacy as a “martyr to the ‘Lost Cause.’ ” Wilkie called Jefferson Davis an “exceptional man in an exceptional age,” and while the VA leader called slavery and its aftermath “a stain on our story as it is a stain on every civilization in history,” he defended Confederate history and the soldiers who fought for the South.

    Wilkie’s remarks at the annual Davis birthday celebration held at the U.S. Capitol by the United Daughters of the Confederacy were first reported by CNN, which discovered a transcript in the United Daughters of the Confederacy Magazine.

    The 1995 remarks underscored Wilkie’s apparent belief in a theory that slavery was not a central cause of the Civil War and that he sees the secession of the Southern states from the Union as a sympathetic, heroic struggle for states’ rights.

    He called Davis “much more than a compilation of vital statistics” who “accepted the natural tragedy of life and the limits of man’s power to alter nature’s order. And for the first 3½ years of the war, that order included a defense of the institution of slavery.”

    Wilkie started his career as a young aide to Jesse Helms (R-N.C.), the five-term Senate firebrand who denounced Martin Luther King Jr. and once called gay people “weak, morally sick wretches.” He served as a top aide to Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-Miss.), who lost his leadership post after defending a fellow senator’s segregationist campaign for president decades earlier. Wilkie joined the inner circle of former defense secretary and Iraq War architect Donald H. Rumsfeld before returning to the Pentagon last year to run military personnel policy for the Trump administration.

  76. 76
    The Dangerman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    If Pence were to leave any replacement would also have to be approved my Nancy SMASH’s House.

    If Pence goes down, I can’t think of a single person that could get through the House and the Senate. The VP slot would stay open.

    Then one can game out that there are ways we get to a President Pelosi.

  77. 77
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @NotMax:
    I wish we had the ability of Congress to be able to pass no confidence votes like the French system is able to do. Probably wouldn’t be any easier than impeachment in the House and conviction in the Senate. The safeguards that the Founders put in place are hamstringing our ability to make progress.

  78. 78

    @moops: DOJ policy going back to Watergate is a sitting President cannot be indicted.

  79. 79

    It’s crazy how fractal the corruption is. The GOP is just equally corrupt at every scale.

  80. 80
    moops says:

    @NotMax: This was all refreshed during the Clinton impeachment.

    from the staff of Ken Starr

    Turley argued that the “dysfunctionality caused by presidential immunity should be a greater concern for citizens than the constitutional crisis brought on by an indictment. An indicted president is a terrible proposition. But so is the continuation of a presumed felon in office — one who clings to power as a shield from accountability.”

    we have had more churn in the area lately than people like to admit. Kavanaugh is on the SC for exactly this reason. It has nothing to do with impeachment. The SC will sit things out entirely if there is an impeachment. That human stain is on the SC for this specific reason.

  81. 81
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    True. Which is why no one knows if it’s a legal to arrest a sitting president. Personally, I think it is. But the SS may disagree and “protect” the president from a potentially illegal arrest. That could go badly in many ways. I don’t think a prosecutor is going to risk their careers or freedom trying to indict the sitting POTUS.

  82. 82
    Redshift says:

    The thing to remember is that Trump is there only one who (maybe) can’t be indicted. So even if Senate Republicans remain complicit and don’t act for the good of the country, everyone around him is still fair game. He can still do a lot of damage, but it could severely limit him.

  83. 83
    moops says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    Comey already wiped his butt with DOJ policy. I hope he stands up and states publicly that this departure from policy is warranted given his own violation of protocol that the Congress smacked him with a newspaper on the Hill today for.

  84. 84
    Mike J says:

    @trollhattan: Straight up 16th. Maybe a mile?

  85. 85
    Aleta says:

    James Fields Guilty of First-Degree Murder in Death of Heather Heyer

  86. 86
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Pivot

  87. 87
    PeakVT says:

    as the realization that the Republicans in the Senate won’t do anything about it [sets in].

    Was anyone ever expecting the Senate to do anything about it? Mueller would be superfluous if Republican Senators put their country before their party. The current bunch never will, so we are depending instead on Mueller’s integrity and the chance that any indictments of Trumpolini don’t get escalated to the highly partisan Supreme Court.

  88. 88

    @moops: OK, who in Justice will change the policy, the Acting AG or AG Barr if he’s approved by the Senate?

  89. 89
    moops says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    also, we have never had a President committing treason. For real and recorded treason. The GOP won’t act on it. It is very possible that a number of them are directly complicit, and Mueller knows it from SIGINT, and cooperating witnesses, and seized documents.

    Now, Mueller still thinks there is a core GOP that is not a criminal organization, so it is quite likely that he will wait until Trump finishes his terrible Presidential term before recommending charges. That is a mistake and it is our job to pressure our representatives to pressure the DOJ to act on this information now and not later.

  90. 90
    Martin says:

    People need to understand how impeachment works.

    The impeachment process starts in the House, and with a majority democrats can start the process. It doesn’t matter if you can’t get to ⅔ at the start, because the whole point of the impeachment trial is to get everything out in the open. Republicans are able to resist because they have some level of deniability against all of the redacted information and lack of on-the-record accounts that we can witness. Once you rip the lid off of this, it will become MUCH harder for House Republicans to hold on, after all, every one of them is up for reelection in 2020. If you get to ⅔ in the House, then you’re going to drop that turd in the Senate and watch them try and hold back the public outcry for what was just witnessed in the House.

    In any trial, you want 12 jurors that won’t convict at the start, and 12 that will by the end. Same goes here. Force the GOP to defend him once Mueller has spent 3 weeks giving public testimony and hauling witnesses up there.

  91. 91
    NotMax says:

    @Aleta

    Wilkie’s apparent belief in a theory that slavery was not a central cause of the Civil War

    Contra Wilkie, the Cornerstone Speech was an incendiary immediate precursor to the firing on Fort Sumter.

  92. 92
    nasruddin says:

    @jl: They could build a wall around the place. A big beauitful wall.

  93. 93
    moops says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: As I told Goku, Barr is a problem. The AG is the one that would bring this kind of charge to start things rolling at the federal level.

    I don’t think we can handle state AG’s charging the President. We would have AGs charging the President ever term.

  94. 94
    Ruckus says:

    @Bobby Thomson:
    In a lot of ways Nixon looks like a bog standard rethug. But he really is way below them on any scale. That drumpf is a lot farther down the scale is true. And irrelevant to what Nixon was. They are both bad for some of the same reasons and different for others. Nixon had the balls to not only watch but arrange for people to die in war so he could get elected. Not saying that drumpf wouldn’t do that but he’s not smart enough to engineer that. Nixon was. drumpf is too narcissistic, and stupid to understand and especially plan that level of horror. Nixon knew what he was doing, he didn’t give a fuck about that. drumpf, he’s on a different plane, he’s a reactionary, because of his narcissism. The only thing he can actually give a fuck about is himself. He’s also massively racist, misogynistic, and about 12 other things, none of which are good. The two things that he did to get elected is first to react with his basic racism and be proud about it. The second thing he did was to take money and help from a foreign power because he otherwise didn’t have a clue.
    Nixon played at politics for a long time, was an officer in the navy during WWII, he knew what war was, and fucked up the peace process so that he could get elected. That wasn’t reactionary, that was evil incarnate.
    They were/are both horrible human beings, they both have absolutely nothing to be proud of and a lot to be far more than ashamed of but as of today, while drumpf is a horrible fucking human being, Nixon was by far a worse human being. This could change. Because only one of them is dead.

  95. 95
    NotMax says:

    @Martin

    Yup. And to those who say “but impeachment is a political process” I say so what? It’s a recognized and accepted tool/methodology for putting things on the record within a political system and need not be discarded if it happens to have a tag labeled political hanging from it.

  96. 96
    PJ says:

    @MomSense: Pence and Trump need to go at the same time; if Trump gets to appoint a new VP (sure to be confirmed by a Republican Senate), then Pelosi can’t become President.

  97. 97
    NotMax says:

    @moops

    Supreme Court ruled a sitting president can be charged in a civil case, under Clinton, and there hasn’t been a headlong rush of suits against sitting presidents clogging the system since.

    And we handled a sitting vice-president (Burr) being criminally charged by a state, as well as a treason trial against him after he had left office.

  98. 98
    Ruckus says:

    @moops:
    I consider what Nixon did to be treason. His handling of Vietnam extended a war and it was all to make him look good. He was a naval officer in WWII, he knew what war was and he didn’t give a damn that people got killed as long as he looked good.
    As I write that the end sounds somewhat familiar.

  99. 99
    Mike in DC says:

    @Martin: You don’t need 2/3 in the House. Just a simple majority. You need 2/3 in the Senate to convict and remove.

  100. 100
    Ruckus says:

    @Karen:
    If he loses, the primary or the election, at noon on Jan 20th he’s no longer the president, like it or not. That means he no longer gets a say in being there or not. I believe the SS would remove him, by forklift if necessary.

  101. 101
    Platonailedit says:

    @Martin: 2/3rd in the house? I don’t think so.

  102. 102

    @NotMax: And Agnew was indicted and pleaded no contest.

  103. 103
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    IIRC, Agnew was not actually indicted while in office and there was an ongoing case by his lawyers as to whether or not a sitting v.p. could be indicted which was rendered moot by the agreement with DOJ to resign, waive the right to a jury trial and subsequently* plead nolo contendere on only one single count (all the others were dropped as a condition of the agreement).

    *Subsequently in this case being less than an hour after resignation took effect.

  104. 104
    Martin says:

    @Platonailedit: You don’t need ⅔ to start the investigation. There wasn’t ⅔ when John Dean spilled his guts, and before the Watergate tapes were revealed. The ⅔ came after that. That’s the point. If the case against Trump is strong enough, and is made public enough, then you’ll get to ⅔.

  105. 105
    Martin says:

    @NotMax: Bork’s memo (for what’s that worth) said that the President couldn’t be indicted, but the VP could be. I don’t see how you split that particular baby but the AG interpretation on the record is that you can. So…

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