Late Night Open Thread: When Slugs Vote for Salt

My every instinct revolts against agreeing with Tom Nichols, but: If even the hardcore conservative Conservatives have stopped making excuses for the Noble Hardscrabble Heartlanders, how long can the GOP oligarchs and their paid minions continue to engineer elections in their own favor?

And what happens when those oligarchs — and their ‘If dirt voted, white farmers/ranchers would be invincible!’ willing victims — realize their idealized past is never coming back?


92 replies
  1. 1
    joel hanes says:

    “good and hard” Mencken

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  2. 2
    Tony Jay says:

    Uh…. Yeah. All of that. Except for the paeans to Ye Olde Worlde Conservatism being anything other than a delivery system for entrenched privilage. That bit sucks slug balls.

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  3. 3
  4. 4
    Ruckus says:

    What Tom writes in these tweets sounds like a major rethink of his entire political direction and ethics.
    Have the scales fallen from yonder eyes?
    Anne, it is possible that the shitgibbon is so bad, in every conceivable (and inconceivable) way that some conservatives with the ability to possibly think for themselves actually are?
    The evidence is there and has been since at least Nixon that conservatism of the last 60 yrs is about only two things. Racism and the wealthy getting overly more so. Their economic policies are grab and run, their racist policies are shoot and never ask questions and their political game is never say out loud what your real intentions are. shitgibbon has ruined all of that by first being as stupid fool as is humanly possible, and second by making everything about himself and therefore also about conservatism/republicans.

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  5. 5
    Ruckus says:

    @Tony Jay:
    I thought it was sucks donkey balls. Slug balls, while repulsive, would have to be, by their nature, rather small, I mean how many would it take to hide the taste of the cracker?

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  6. 6
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Ruckus:
    I know I’m not entitled to it, but home come you never respond to me anymore? Did I say something wrong to you?

    ReplyReply
  7. 7
    Yutsano says:

    @Ruckus: I also think slug gender is…fluid. So it’s whoever has the balls at that precise moment? Maybe?

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  8. 8
    Amir Khalid says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:
    Quite a few of us have advised you not to do this.

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  9. 9
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @Ruckus:

    Have the scales fallen from yonder eyes?

    It’s still “Conservatism cannot fail, conservatism can only be failed”. Trump and the Republican movement are unmitigated disasters, therefore Trump and the Republican movement are not True Scotsmen.

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  10. 10
    NotMax says:

    Counter-intuitive though it may seem

    Only if counter-intuitive means a sign with red neon letters ten feet high flashing “Danger, Will Robinson” 24/7, surrounded by 200 decibel ah-ooga klaxons.

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  11. 11
    Mnemosyne says:

    I stupidly replied to a white supremacist on Twitter, realized my mistake, and blocked him before he could respond to me. Phew!

    That’s why I shouldn’t twitter.

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  12. 12
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    I once had the “pleasure” of arguing with a proud boy who was cheering on violence on YT comments. I got called a “soy boy” for telling him he was a terrible person for doing that as well as un-American. So you should consider yourself lucky.

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  13. 13
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I shouldn’t have asked it.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
    Ruckus says:

    @sm*t cl*de:
    It was a rhetorical question, but there is a very tiny grain of possibility there.
    But. And it is a very large, very round and firm but, that normally you would be 10000% correct, except that the shitgibbon is such an unmitigated disaster that it may awaken one or two of them to the fact that everything they stand for is untenable. It’s not a house of cards, that’s way too stable. It would be like a 20 watt bulb on the sun. Such a small detail in a sea of molten everything, that it would be an unnoticeable blip in the cosmos.

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  15. 15
    prostratedragon says:

    Today’s meditation on the treacherous ambiguity of language is a phrase that has run through my mind a lot lately, which is also the title of a musical piece, “Ah George, We Hardly Knew You [To George Adams], Don Pullen.”

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  16. 16
    Ruckus says:

    @Yutsano:
    Slugs it seems have both genders and are one or the other depending upon their age. If I read the scientific literature correctly.
    Still very very small balls though, and probably rather difficult to find. Reminds me of a description of someone we all hate.

    ReplyReply
  17. 17
    Tony Jay says:

    @Ruckus:
    You’ve certainly given me something to think about there. Damn these complicated issues of gender and taste combinations!

    Heh, ‘cracker’. Nicely done.

    ReplyReply
  18. 18
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: I play on Twitter but I mostly read other people’s tweets. I usually only talk to people who are friendly. I like my little echo chamber, but I do sometimes encounter the abominables and I tend to block them, many times before they even notice me. People with a red X get blocked immediately no matter how well-behaved at the moment. It can be frightening (or annoying) when the worst of them notice you. Thank God for the power to block and block and block.

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  19. 19
    opiejeanne says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: If Soy Boy was the worst they called you, that’s not particularly scary but it is silly.

    ReplyReply
  20. 20
    Yarrow says:

    Dayum, I hadn’t seen that Tom Nichols thread. That’s interesting to see.

    @Ruckus:

    What Tom writes in these tweets sounds like a major rethink of his entire political direction and ethics.

    It really does. More than I’ve seen before anyway. I wonder if we’re in the beginning or even past that beginning of a political realignment. We just haven’t quite seen it yet.

    ReplyReply
  21. 21
    Yarrow says:

    @opiejeanne: We’re all going to be Soy Boys and Girls with all the soybeans piling up storage.

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  22. 22
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    They were once pandered to in elections; now it’s no longer possible to indulge the pretense that their concerns are economic – or fixable.

    I wish this was true. But last weekend, Wilmer stated his 2020 campaign will be based on pandering to the “pain” of rural whites.

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  23. 23
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Yarrow: For the record, Nichols actually advised his fellow Repubs to vote straight-ticket Democrat in 2018, as he intended to do. He’s announced that his former (probably future) party needs to be “purged from top to bottom, down to the local selectmen” because it’s no longer the conservative alternative in a two-party duopoly, but “a cargo cult led by grifters”.

    I still don’t agree with him 100%, or even 75%, but — heck, our Blogmaster was an out’n’proud Conservative Curmudgeon once, and he got over it…

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  24. 24
    lollipopguild says:

    So many of the rural types never understood that the “system” that they hated with the heat of a thousand suns was actually set up to PROTECT them and coddle them. Their Hero, trump is trashing it for them. God bless America.

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  25. 25
    Anne Laurie says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Yes, but even some of the less-than-cherry-red Sandernistas are beginning to suspect that their Leader might be, well… a niche politician. Someone a little too pure and honest for our ugly, middlebrow national arena.

    Not that all of them will have the good sense to become actual Democrats, but ‘Our Revolution’ shows signs of evolving into a mirror-version of the Paulistas.

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  26. 26

    @joel hanes: My very first thought. Not the first comment, but …

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  27. 27

    Tangential: Matty Y.

    The Weekly Standard’s demise is a reminder that there are some ideas worse than Trumpism
    The most principled resistance to Trump comes from conservatism’s most dangerous faction.

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    And, that , among other things, is why he will go nowhere.
    Because, REAL Democrats, don’t give two shyts about these people.

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    rikyrah says:

    As for the Nebraskans…
    Womp womp 😒 😒

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    opiejeanne says:

    @Yarrow: I think there’s a limit to how much soy is healthy. Soy can trigger some not so nice health issues. Possible gynecomastia and a possible link to breast cancer? Something about having too much estrogen.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    Amir Khalid says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    It’s interesting that Wilmer takes what is essentially a right-wing stance, playing to a mostly right-wing voting bloc, and people still take him for a liberal.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    Chyron HR says:

    @opiejeanne:

    It’s the opposite, soy has phytoestrogen which does not cause breast cancer, and your body absorbs it instead of regular estrogen thereby lowering your risk of breast cancer overall.

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    Jack the Second says:

    @opiejeanne: That’s just it. EVERYONE KNOWS soy turns you into a girl. Calling someone a “soy boy” is calling them a GIRL which is the WORST THING EVER.

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @opiejeanne: I blocked myself on twitter and I deserved it too.

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
  36. 36
    sm*t cl*de says:

    @Ruckus:

    the shitgibbon is such an unmitigated disaster that it may awaken one or two of them to the fact that everything they stand for is untenable.

    It has, for instance, awakened Russ Douthat to the fact that the American public are disavowing Trumpism, and therefore what they want instead is a return to old-fashioned conservatism (i.e. unquestioned rule by east-coast upper classes).

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I am such an asshole, there’s just no reasoning with me.

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @M. Bouffant: I’m still not sure the reason neoconservatism seems more dangerous isn’t just that so far we’ve had more years of it. Trumpism has a distinct chance of turning the United States itself into a charnel house like a larger version of post-invasion Iraq, with millions dead, loose nukes and North America destabilized for a generation. And Bolton could yet steer US foreign policy into a crude parody of neoconservatism anyway.

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  39. 39
    Turgidson says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    He is drunk on the idea that what the MAGA crackers really want is more sockulism. Which actually may be true, but only to the extent they can be assured that the blacks and browns and queers etc. don’t see a dime of it.

    I’m no fan of David Frum, but he noticed this and aptly referred to it as Herrenvolk sockulism.

    And as racially clueless as St Bernard can be, he’s not proposing THAT kind of sockulism any time soon.

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  40. 40
    Betty Cracker says:

    @opiejeanne: I block Trumpsters on Twitter quicker than they can say “MAGA,” even if they’ve replied to someone else and I just happen to read it. I probably block more people than I follow. It’s one of the things I love about Twitter, how easy it is to block assholes. Maybe I’m living in a Twitter bubble, but the way I look at it, I’m forced to share a country with more than 60 million people who voted for a con man demagogue, and I live in a community where nearly 70% of voters went for Trump, so I deserve a break from them online.

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  41. 41
    Immanentize says:

    Hello Morning Crew — Did the return to standard Time somehow mess with the scheduling of the morning thread? Or is the morning thread now just the late night thread?
    Signed, Dazed and confused

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    HinTN says:

    @Anne Laurie: Yeah, but

    who needed the sensible ballast of prudence and judgment.

    He’s still sure that his purity pony is alive and well, it’s just buried in the tsunami of dump’s shit.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    HinTN says:

    @Immanentize:

    Dazed and confused

    “Lots of people talking…”

    Good morning

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    Betty Cracker says:

    Have any of y’all seen “Dogs” on Netflix? It’s a documentary series. The dog lovers among us will enjoy it. I watched a couple of episodes with my dogs, who paid an unusual amount of attention to the program, I guess since they perceived it is about their kind.

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  45. 45
    Immanentize says:

    @HinTN: Good morning, H.

    Be a lot cooler if you did….

    With Low Rider playing on the 8-track!

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    Immanentize says:

    @Betty Cracker: It was reviewed in Cat Journal which gave it four claws down.

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Testing testing 1…2….3

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Blech! (Works for me?)

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    So comments stopped loading thru renew after renew and only appeared when I commented.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @HinTN: He still believes that white liberals have tricked black people into believing in their imaginary victimhood.

    ReplyReply
  51. 51

    That was a fun 24 hours…changing out a motherboard on a laptop and upgrading MacOS Mojave for a fully working duel boot hackintosh/windows laptop.

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    Turgidson says:

    @HinTN:

    That’s also a remnant of the once-impenetrable fortress of beltway conventional wisdom that liberals are unserious because they don’t want to cut social security and Medicare and want to spend money on things that might actually help the poor.

    The nevertrumpers almost to a person still cling to the fiction that the ideology and political party they supported their whole lives until about five minutes ago wasn’t always a cesspool of cruelty and stupidity. GHWBush passing gave them a chance to nostalgically wallow in that dream once more.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Amir Khalid: his greatest sin was rebranding white supremacy as socialism.

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I have finally found a small touch of non-Blech news on this very Blechy morning: Donkey and emu that ‘fell in love’ adopted by Walking Dead actor

    “Where one goes, the other follows.” So describes the love between Jack and Diane, a donkey and an emu that fell in love on an abandoned farm in South Carolina. Though the unlikely couple was in danger of becoming star-crossed lovers, they have now found a permanent home after being adopted by a celebrity.

    The Walking Dead star Jeffrey Dean Morgan adopted the pair after hearing about a relationship that breaks the species barrier. He and his wife, former One Tree Hill actress Hilarie Burton, have now given the lovebird and the donkey a new home at their farm in New York’s Hudson Valley.

    Jack and Diane were rescued from a farm in the beginning of November by Carolina Waterfowl Rescue, an animal rescue non-profit based in North Carolina, along with other animals that were suddenly abandoned by the renter of the property.
    ……………………..
    It was first determined the pair were bonded when they tried to separate the couple. The rescue group has three other donkeys and another emu in their sanctuary. When they tried to put Jack in with the other donkeys and Diane with the other emu, they were crying and pacing around.

    “Then we put them in the same enclosure together, and they calmed down,” Brown said.

    From that point on, the group noticed other signs it had a couple on its hands. Though donkeys and emus aren’t known for being cuddly, the organization said in a post on Instagram that the pair were snuggled together while being transported to the sanctuary. Jack attacked another donkey that got close to Diane and has shown he is protective of her. Diane also “drummed”, a deep, drum-like sound that female emus make when calling for a mate, around Jack.

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  55. 55
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

     I’m still not sure the reason neoconservatism seems more dangerous isn’t just that so far we’ve had more years of it. Trumpism has a distinct chance of turning the United States itself into a charnel house like a larger version of post-invasion Iraq, with millions dead, loose nukes and North America destabilized for a generation. And Bolton could yet steer US foreign policy into a crude parody of neoconservatism anyway.

    This, to me, is a good and fair point, one which I don’t (no surprise) have the answer to.

    Will say: have long maintained, to the vehement objection of most of my friends,(mosty cuz Trump is so transparently and balls-out odious) that GeeDub, even at this late hour, is *still* a far worse preznit than Trump is. So far. The all important stipulation: so far.

    Granted, the shitgibbon is got potential. Immense potential. He’s stupid, lazy, manipulable, hopelessly compromised (talk aboutta kept man!), mean, reactionary and grasping. Easily the stupid fucker could blow up our world. Literally or figuratively. (Or both! Not mutually exclusive!)

    But, for me, the trifecta of lying the country into a stupid, pointless, counterproductive war, plus impotently and disinterestedly watching like Nero whilst a major American city drowns, plus presiding over the smash-n-grab free-for-all tanking of the economy via Wall Street that actually even woke (heaven forfend!) white people up (which is really saying sumpin! go whipipo, way to wake the fuck up!) enough to realize the so-fucking-callt “grown-ups” is actually fuck-ups is, for me, still worse than Trump.

    Trump is awful. Granted. And he might burn it all down b/c he’s spiteful and selfish. Granted.

    But our country was, for eight years, in the grasp of monsters. This is true of our current age, true, but the saving grace of the Trump debacle is, unlike their recent forbears, the current iteration of antidemocratic authoritarians are so incompetent that they can’t seem to keep from stepping on their own dicks. They’re even alienating their own cowardly fellow-travelers. (Which is also really saying sumpin.)

    What’s genuinely scary is, if Trump wasn’t such a needy self-defeating stupid fuck, the country was ripe for his lurching misrule.

    It ain’t over by a long shot, but am hoping we can dodge the Trump fart-cloud of doom.

    But, ymmv.

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    BretH says:

    @Anne Laurie: you still haven’t realized he has been getting paid by a secret PAC to herd liberals into this enclosed space where we’re easier to keep track of, then eliminate when order 66 is issued…

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    There is one small wee difference between W and trump:

    W wanted to destroy the govt of Iraq and in the process fucked up the ME.

    trump wants to destroy the govt of the US and in the process fuck up Dawg himself doesn’t know else.

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
  59. 59
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @rikyrah: Blech.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    There is one small wee difference between W and trump:

    W wanted to destroy the govt of Iraq and in the process fucked up the ME.

    trump wants to destroy the govt of the US and in the process fuck up Dawg himself doesn’t know else.

    Bush wanted to fuck up the world in his hoary image. Trump merely wants to fuck up America for his direct benefit.

    Think GeeDubthaShrub woulda magnanimously callt that the soft bigotry of low expectations.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    debbie says:

    Trump’s got a photo up labeled “50% Approval Rating.” Where’s that coming from???

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    rikyrah says:

    @debbie:
    Rasmussen …has to be

    ReplyReply
  63. 63
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: During the transition I remember getting a distinct sense that the Trump team’s model for the future US government was post-invasion Iraq. It was the same thing–all the weird right-wing grifters and crackpots coming in to put their pet ideas into practice on what they thought was a blank-slate country.

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  64. 64

    I will believe “conservatives” have seen the light when they start saying Reagan damaged the country. These guys will go straight back to where they were once Trump is gone, and their objection to him is mostly aesthetic.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    JPL says:

    @rikyrah: Yup! The same polling outfit that had the republicans winning the house.

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    Bush wanted to fuck up the world in his hoary image.

    No. He thought he could fix the world. Pure hubris,

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    rumpole says:

    Nichols is a legit expert on certain topics (health care, tax policy and finance are not among them). But he’s a thoughtful guy with a sense of humor. More importantly, even though he has retrograde ideas on everything from econ to abortion, he shares what I believe are (not snarky) decent American values. In other words, if you win a democratic election, your first job is to preserve democracy, not to pull up the ladder. Rick Wilson is in the same class, as is Max Boot.

    They have had terrible ideas. But they do not have terrible principles.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Never considered that comparison, but it fits perfectly! There’s a very long list of official misdeeds this country has yet to properly acknowledge and reconcile, but that absolutely nutty 100-day transition plan in post-Hussein Iraq remains the most surreal that I was alive to witness, at least until Trump came along. The crackpottery. The breath-taking hubris. The callous experimentation. It’s an eternal disgrace.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69

    Morning thread is up.

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    But her emails!!! says:

    Bernie’s big issue is that he’s a lazy thinker and his national movement is basically his Vermont campaign writ Nationwide. He’s under the delusion that the strip of rural and blue collar white liberal voters that exists solely in Vermont and the Berkshires in Massholeland is representative of white rural and blue collar voters everywhere. In his mind all that’s needed to turn deep red rural Nebraska dark blue is for them to feel the Bern.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    zhena gogolia says:

    He has a rather strange recollection of what Occupy Wall Street was all about.

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    I’m sorry, I’ve heard Nichols speak, and he ain’t no Cole.

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    poleaxedbyboatwork says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    No. He thought he could fix the world. Pure hubris,

    Agreed. What you say is, of course, true. From BushJr.’s perspective.

    From *my* perspective, W.’s daddy “real-men-go-to-Baghdad” issues plus his incandescent (and obvious: Sunni? Shia? whatsa differnce?) awol-chickenshit-naivete bespoke an easily led blunt object casting about the world for a proud nail to strike. And Darth Cheney was just the Machiavellian eminence grise to make the rash seem necessary and noble.

    And then they sold it like dick pills to chickenshit America.

    I remember distinctly how the hubris of GeeDub gulled even some good-faith credulous peoples who are susceptible to the “wouldn’t-it-be-pretty-to-think-so!” impulse. My brother, I regret to say, was one. He eventually saw past the “greeted-as-liberators-spreading-democracy-shifting-goalposts-recurring-Friedman-unit” con, but by then it was already fubared.

    But, as they sez in Renoir’s “The Rules of the Game”: “The hell of it is everyone allus has their reasons.” Dick Cheney don’t think he was fucking up the world, and he’ll prolly die fat, happy and self-satisfied that he done the right thing n acted with noble intentions. Just like Bush Jr. thinks.

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  74. 74
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @But her emails!!!:

    He’s under the delusion that the strip of rural and blue collar white liberal voters that exists solely in Vermont and the Berkshires in Massholeland is representative of white rural and blue collar voters everywhere.

    Slander! They also exist in some small portions of New Hampshire and northern New York state!!!

    Sanders got some support for his idea from the fact that he usually beat Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary in Midwestern rural areas. But Democratic primary/caucus voters aren’t the same thing as general-election voters.

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  75. 75
    SFAW says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I am such an asshole, there’s just no reasoning with me.

    You may be an asshole, but you’re OUR asshole.

    No, wait, that doesn’t sound right …

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    SFAW says:

    Conservatives and liberals need each other to make progress.

    No, Nichols, you fucking moron. Conservatives have no interest in “progress.” Although the entire “conservative” movement (as Nichols seems to think of it) is not the embodiment of Cleek’s Law, it’s pretty damn close.

    Liberals have made progress DESPITE conservatives, not because of them, nor from “compromising” with them. FSM spare us from these conservative “thinkers.”

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SFAW: I actually agree with him a little about that–it’s just that it’s “conservatives” in the theoretical temperamental sense of the word. And today, those people are Democrats, and we call them liberals. Not Republicans, and not in the conservative movement.

    I think we need both mainstream liberals and lefty progressives to make progress. That’s the spectrum he’s looking for.

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    boatboy_srq says:

    That’s because there’s no ground for a policy fix or a compromise with people whose basic position is that they want America to be white, sorta Christian, and frozen in 1963 – except with 2018’s drugs, sexual liberty, govt transfer payments, ESPN channels, and internet porn.

    It’s arguable that the modern improvements list Nichols proposes is actually much shorter: “2018’s drugs” only matter when they’re the prescription variety, generally only cover opioids and b*ner pills, and do not under any circumstances describe any kind of birth control; “sexual liberty” only really covers the odd hetero extramarital affairs the guys have (and the teenage boys dream about with their MILF obsessions); &c. The “Internet pr0n” part is probably the least exaggerated in the list. Nichols’ modern convenience list is little more than Reichwing fantasies about being the great warrior ball player and having as many consequence-free (cis) sexual partners as they like.

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    artem1s@icloud.com says:

    @Yarrow:

    I wonder if we’re in the beginning or even past that beginning of a political realignment. We just haven’t quite seen it yet.

    Not really looking forward to that. When the deplorables start leaving the GOP in droves it’s going to be a never ending whinge fest of ‘why won’t the Demoncrats pay attention to MY NEEDS’. They’ll demand to be let into the tent, piss all over the rugs, and then flounce off if the party doesn’t instantly turn itself into a RonPaul/libertarian worshipping cult. Non-stop mansplianing why the GOP’s demise is really the libs fault.

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    SFAW says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I actually agree with him a little about that–it’s just that it’s “conservatives” in the theoretical temperamental sense of the word. And today, those people are Democrats, and we call them liberals. Not Republicans, and not in the conservative movement.

    I have to disagree. Dems (other than Manchin, et al.) are “conservative” only in the sense that we’re trying to retard the “progris” that the RWMFs are trying to foist on us. But their “progris” amounts to a return to the good old days of pre-New Deal (or pre-Civil War) America. But outside of that …

    And I was using the term “conservative” (in my earlier comment) more-or-less in the William F Buckley sense, which is relatively close to what used to be mainstream conservatism. [I certainly don’t consider the current Rethug Partei to be anything close to “traditional” conservatism.]

    Liberals need the votes of (some) conservatives to get something through Congress, but the bills that pass are less forward-looking than if the libs controlled the Congress and White House.

    ETA: I realize that formerly-mainstream “conservatism” had large chunks of racism and fascism mixed in. My sense is that those were not the prime drivers. [I’m conveniently ignoring the southern “conservatives,” for whom racism was (probably) a prime driver.]

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @But her emails!!!: Meanwhile, despite his theory, the governor of Vermont is… a Republican.

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    Gex says:

    Why is this being praised as a rethinking of his beliefs/values? He cited 41 as an example of what real conservatism is.

    The Republican who cemented the marriage of the Southern Strategy with the GOP by using Atwater.
    The Republican who covered his ass by issuing strategic pardons.
    The Republican who caved as one of the last Republicans to repudiate supply side economics.
    The Republican who abandoned his pro-choice position to be more theologically correct.
    The Republican who with his predecessor laughed as gay men died because it pleased his Christian supporters.

    People tell me a lot about themselves when they pretend that Trump is different in kind from any post Ike president, and not simply different by degree. He is right about Trump and the voters. He’s dead wrong about what conservatism has been.

    Just another conservative who is embarrassed to see how his politics play out over time and doesn’t want to take responsibility.

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  83. 83
    artem1s@icloud.com says:

    @poleaxedbyboatwork:

    But, for me, the trifecta of lying the country into a stupid, pointless, counterproductive war, plus impotently and disinterestedly watching like Nero whilst a major American city drowns, plus presiding over the smash-n-grab free-for-all tanking of the economy via Wall Street that actually even woke (heaven forfend!) white people up (which is really saying sumpin! go whipipo, way to wake the fuck up!) enough to realize the so-fucking-callt “grown-ups” is actually fuck-ups is, for me, still worse than Trump.

    add onto the top of this, the GOP was perfectly fine with Trump as the nominee because W worked out so well for them. Perfect, clueless puppet – check; venal, lazy, and disconnected – check; willing to sell the country out for a buck – check; multiple experiences with bankrupting major companies – check; willing to turn a blind eye to real threats to the economy and national security to enrich Darth Cheney – check; willing to pose as a good christian to appease the slavering christian right – check. Think the GOP learned anything from that administration’s failures? Hold my beer…

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  84. 84
    Just Chuck says:

    @Betty Cracker: Once again thank you for reading Twitter so I don’t have to.

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    Barbara says:

    @SFAW: The problem with Nichols is his notion that traditional conservatives don’t actually exist. They do — and they mostly inhabit the Democratic party. That’s what I fault Nichols for — his refusal to see, in particular, Barack Obama has a very moderate president. That doesn’t mean Obama was above criticism, but for that criticism to have been rendered in the way it was, as if Obama were radical or crazy was a function of the deliberate delusion by people like Nichols that bona fide conservatism only exists in the Republican party, and also, that anyone with black skin was by definition a crazy liberal (racism, to be blunt). So Nichols has definitely had the scales fall from his eyes with regard to the Republican Party, but he still sees the solution as a change among Republicans, instead of accepting that for the time being, there is a greater opportunity for rational policy making of every kind within the Democratic Party.

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    Jacel says:

    @prostratedragon: One of the finest musical experiences I’ve had was hearing Don Pullen and George Adams play with Charles Mingus at Keystone Corner. That late-career Mingus group can be heard on the Changes One / Changes Two recordings from 1975. Only trumpeter Jack Walrath is still alive from that amazing quintet.

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    Julia Grey says:

    @Yutsano:

    “I also think slug gender is…fluid.”

    Ewwwww.

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    stan says:

    @But her emails!!!: Bernie’s big issue is that he’s a lazy thinker and his national movement is basically his Vermont campaign writ Nationwide. He’s under the delusion that the strip of rural and blue collar white liberal voters that exists solely in Vermont and the Berkshires in Massholeland is representative of white rural and blue collar voters everywhere. In his mind all that’s needed to turn deep red rural Nebraska dark blue is for them to feel the Bern.

    I live in the region and this seems exactly right to me. Vermont definitely feels like an odd mix of very left and very right ideas all rolled into one somehow. Go across the lake to upstate rural NY and it’s very different; cross the river to NH and it’s different again.

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    boatboy_srq says:

    @Barbara: There has been a multigenerational effort on the part of the forces behind the GOP to persuade the electorate that the GOP is the One True Conservative Party™, and the Sole Owner and Inheritor of Conservatism™. That is patently untrue, but everyone from Murdoch down to Limbaugh, Breitbart, Savage/Weiner, Alex Jones and their ilk have insisted either that the GOP is The Conservative Party™ or that it is an acceptable compromise toward True Conservatism™.

    That this kind of effort has instead resulted in a neofascist engine, populated solely by true believers, whose more polite internal critics have been forcibly ejected from their midst, and whose focus is no longer on conservatism but on Winning, escapes them.

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  90. 90

    @Jacel: I caught Pharoah Sanders and McCoy Tyner at the Keystone in 1974, in the company of my future ex-wife. Odd, given the undergraduate connection and the friends in common, that it took a Juice meet-up for our paths to cross.

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    opiejeanne says:

    @Jack the Second: OH NO!!! I’M A GIRL!

    And I only had a little soy. If I had a lot of it would I turn into Wonder Woman?

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    Jacel says:

    @Rand Careaga: Yes, it was amazing to find so much shared context with you. I went to the Mingus show with a trumpet player from the jazz improv circle around Wayne Horvitz in Santa Cruz. Wayne passed on going, assuming Mingus was in the past. We reported back that this was as wonderful a concert as we ever expected to hear in our lives. (Just dropping another name to see if there’s more shared friends from then.)

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