Every Picture Tells a Story

The Obamas, Clintons and Carters were having a lively, pleasant conversation at the National Cathedral while awaiting the start of GHWB’s funeral:

Then the Trumps showed up:

Watch Hillary Clinton stone-cold pretend that orange motherfucker isn’t even there:

I can’t tell if the eulogizers are low-key slamming Trump or no. Any recitation of virtue seems like an implicit criticism since Trump is so utterly devoid of that quality. The presidential historian mentioned GHWB’s “big hands.” Hmmm.

Open thread!






264 replies
  1. 1
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    My heart goes out to Hillary. She deserved (deserves) better.

  2. 2
    Yarrow says:

    Michelle was soooo polite. Coolly polite. Love her. I think she said, “Good morning” but I couldn’t quite tell.

  3. 3

    Don’t the women wear black veils and hats or is that only for a Catholic funeral?

  4. 4

    I can’t tell if the eulogizers are low-key slamming Trump or no. Any recitation of virtue seems like an implicit criticism since Trump is so utterly devoid of that quality.

    I’m listening in the background while I work and keep thinking the same thing.

  5. 5
    Butch says:

    You would think a longtime grifter and con man like Trump could at least put on a pretend face that doesn’t say “I don’t want to be here.” Prob’ly he’s worried about what he’s missing on Fox news.

  6. 6
    NotMax says:

    Any shots of the Secret Service on the roof manipulating the yuge lightning rod for when Dolt 45 enters the building?

    “A precaution – just in case.”

  7. 7

    And doesn’t Hillary have the best smile when she’s laughing? Every time I see a photo like that I want to smile with her.

  8. 8
    Yarrow says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Black is not required as far as I know. Certainly not veils and hats. I don’t even think that’s a thing for Catholic funerals these days, is it? People in attendance for this funeral are wearing a lot of black, although not everyone is.

  9. 9
    Yarrow says:

    @TaMara (HFG): So far there’s only been one eulogy–Jon Meacham’s. Boy was it hagiography-riffic. Sheesh. The others have just been readings. Jenna Bush Hager up now.

  10. 10
    Kay says:

    This is genuinely funny:

    Donald J. Trump
    ‏Verified account
    @realDonaldTrump
    Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump
    More
    Very strong signals being sent by China once they returned home from their long trip, including stops, from Argentina. Not to sound naive or anything, but I believe President Xi meant every word of what he said at our long and hopefully historic meeting. ALL subjects discussed!

    He’s talking to himself. “Everything will be FINE- I was NOT tricked again!”

  11. 11
    Kay says:

    I think George W Bush likes Michelle Obama- not in a gross or leering way, but in a “I like this person” way.

    It seems obvious to me.

  12. 12
    Martin says:

    @TaMara (HFG): Yeah. She pushes her shoulders back as if the laugh is enough to knock her over.

    But events like this only serve to reinforce my atheism. If there was a God, Trump would have burst into flames just sitting there.

  13. 13
    Yarrow says:

    Former Canadian PM Brian Mulroney up now. I’ve always liked his voice.

  14. 14
    NotMax says:

    @Yarrow

    Melania wearing a coat emblazoned with “I’d rather be at Saks?”

  15. 15
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: I agree. They seem very friendly. It’s hard to imagine anyone not liking Michelle Obama, although I can certainly see her not liking some people. (*cough* Trump *cough*)

  16. 16
    Martin says:

    @Kay: George and Michelle adore each other in a very sweet way, and I have to admit that it has reformed my opinion of him as a person (not as a president), that if she can see the good in him, then there must be good in him.

  17. 17
    germy says:

    When President Trump has literally been shown data and charts by senior officials showing what year(s) the debt is expected to explode, Trump has referenced the first year & said “yeah, but I won’t be here.” That’s a direct quote https://t.co/eOUxnLIz42
    — Asawin Suebsaeng (@swin24) December 5, 2018

  18. 18
  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: Meacham was his biographer, so…

  20. 20
    cynthia ackerman says:

    OMG, Dan Quayle sighting! First time in … decades?

  21. 21
    Betty Cracker says:

    If Trump is parsing every word uttered for an implicit rebuke to himself (and you know he is), he must be about to explode.

  22. 22

    @Yarrow: Dude sounds like Robert Stack (as I’m listening and not watching I was startled)

  23. 23
    Jackie says:

    Does Slump know how to sit up straight? Slouching at a memorial service is so disrespectful.😡

  24. 24
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Don’t the women wear black veils and hats or is that only for a Catholic funeral?

    Pretty sure that went out of fashion by the 90s.

  25. 25
    NotMax says:

    Dolt 45 must be fuming the place didn’t erupt into raucous applause when he stepped over the threshold.

  26. 26
    SRW1 says:

    @germy:

    … Trump has referenced the first year & said “yeah, but I won’t be here.”

    “And they will probably elect a Democrat anyway.”

  27. 27
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax:

    Any shots of the Secret Service on the roof manipulating the yuge lightning rod for when Dolt 45 enters the building?

    “A precaution – just in case.”

    To make it easier or harder for it to hit Trump?

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: Well then nothing to worry about…

  29. 29
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay: Dubya can eat a big fat bag of salted dicks.

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I think George W Bush likes Michelle Obama- not in a gross or leering way, but in a “I like this person” way.

    It seems obvious to me.

    I think so too.

  31. 31
    rikyrah says:

    those two pictures up top…

    BWA HA HA HA HA AH AH AH AH

  32. 32
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    Not to sound naive or anything, but I believe President Xi meant every word of what he said at our long and hopefully historic meeting.

    This was definitely not written or dictated by Trump. This was written by an aide whose inner demon was working on them.

  33. 33
    TenguPhule says:

    @Martin:

    that if she can see the good in him, then there must be good in him.

    No, there isn’t.

  34. 34
    Betsy says:

    @schrodingers_cat: @Yarrow: Technically, black at a funeral indicates you are a close family member (an official mourner, if you will), but in practice many unrelated attendees will wear black as a mark of respect. Sombre colors or at least not frivolous frippery is the standard for unrelated guests.

    Without getting into the kind of funeral event where special attire is requested, such as “he wouldn’t have wanted people to wear [insert standard practice here]”

  35. 35
    Nicole says:

    @germy: That tweet reminds me of someone asking Dubya how his decisions would look in 100 years and he said, “In 100 years we’ll all be dead.” Republicans literally do not care what happens after they’re gone. I swear, even the obsessive need to set up their wealth in ways that avoid inheritance taxes is just so they can feel smug on their deathbeds.

    For folk who yammer a lot about religion, they sure don’t act like they give a shit about their own hereafters. I think that’s why evangelists have so much obsession with, “As long as you believe Jesus is your personal savior, it’s all good!” You don’t actually have to be a good person; you can break all of the commandments, as long as you BELIEVE.

    (note: I do not believe in an afterlife, so I get no satisfaction about imagining them showing up at the pearly gates and Jesus saying, “I don’t know you.”)

  36. 36
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @germy:
    Damn. Even he knows he’s toast. Keep that fucker away from the football.

  37. 37
    NotMax says:

    @cynthia ackerman

    “This means I’m the former president now, right?”

  38. 38
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes, but even for that it was over the top.

    Alan Simpson is giving his eulogy and he’s funny.

  39. 39
    SRW1 says:

    @germy:

    As the other guy once said: “Après moi, le déluge.”

  40. 40
    germy says:

    It’s like the Bush funeral allows every last remnant of elitist, white privilege-talk to be slipped in, all under the guise of “nostalgia.”

    Remember and honoring people is one thing. Resurrecting ugly is another. The week will pass.

    — Michelangelo Signorile (@MSignorile) December 5, 2018

  41. 41
    delk says:

    Looks like Michelle is taking the thumbtacks out of her purse in the first picture.

  42. 42
    Tazj says:

    Catholics don’t have to wear black to funerals and I haven’t seen a woman wear a veil to a Catholic service since my childhood in the 70’s.
    Michelle Obama has always been very friendly and classy.
    People are making a big deal about how Hillary snubbed Trump and that’s fine, but it will probably become another example of how cold and vindictive she is by people who already hate her. What about Trump? He could’ve gone on the outside of the pew like George W., and greeted everyone, but he didn’t. He didn’t shake hands with Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter.

  43. 43
    tobie says:

    @O. Felix Culpa: Me, too. That she has to suffer this injustice again and again is awful. My admiration for her strength and resolve keeps growing.

  44. 44
    chris says:

    @Yarrow:

    Former Canadian PM Brian Mulroney up now. I’ve always liked his voice.

    Our polite and genial version of Ronnie and Maggie. It took too many Canadians too many years to hear what he was actually saying so mellifluously. “Bend over and welcome your new corporate overlords.”

    Why yes, I do despise the man.

  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: Simpson’s eulogy is a rebuke to the current President. The not about Democrats or Republicans, but about country remarks were clear.

  46. 46
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: You mean Simpson? Yes, it’s a big fat rebuke to Trump. I love it. Edit: I see you changed it.

    @chris: Yep. But his voice….he could have a career doing voice overs or recording books.

  47. 47
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Betty Cracker: May I offer you a cookie, Mr. Creosote?

  48. 48
    germy says:

    If you ever think that you are being paranoid that white men can be employed at high levels no matter how terrible they are at their jobs, you are not being paranoid.

    Ross Douthat is employed by the NYtimes and is actually writing articles about missing elite whites.

    — Monjula Ray (@queerBengali) December 5, 2018

    By passing the horrors these elite whites created that eventually lead to someone like Trump becoming president.

    Also, Manafort, a shitty dumb criminal is a multimillionaire.

    You are not being paranoid. Shitty white men get to become rich and famous for no good reason.

    — Monjula Ray (@queerBengali) December 5, 2018

  49. 49
    NotMax says:

    @germy

    The week will pass.

    By which time he will be planted and the ground designated a toxic waste site.

  50. 50
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    That’s really only for family and close friends. Anyone else looks like they’re trying to grab the spotlight.

  51. 51
    Fleeting Expletive says:

    I guess my comment went into the ether. Remembering that President Obama explicitly warned T not to hire Michael Flynn. Should not be forgotten.

  52. 52
    Ian G. says:

    @Martin:

    My $0.02 on W is that he never wanted to be president, but needed to “prove” himself to dad, and got in way over his head but figured he could coast through his 4 years without much big happening…..and then 9/11 happened and truly evil deranged types like Cheney and Rumsfeld took over for him.

    That doesn’t mean W doesn’t belong in The Hague playing pinochle with Radovan Karadzic, I just don’t see him as more than just a hapless figurehead of what was really a Cheney-led junta.

    I remember watching some baseball game once (2010 World Series with the Rangers, maybe?) where W was in the booth for an inning and he seemed completely different: smart, warm, relaxed. I wondered how much better the world might have turned out had he been made MLB commissioner (a job he probably really wanted) instead of Texas governor/president.

  53. 53
    jl says:

    Is any of this on Fox News? They have a chyron saying G.H.W. was a DemocRAT? I’m just curious.

  54. 54
    TenguPhule says:

    If you’re curious how Republican legislators in Wisconsin rationalize passing last-minute legislation aimed at hobbling the state’s governor-elect, Tony Evers (D), allow them to explain.

    “Listen. I’m concerned,” Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald said at a news conference on Tuesday. “I think that Governor-elect Evers is going to bring a liberal agenda to Wisconsin.”

    If the legislation isn’t passed, Wisconsin State Assembly Speaker Robin Vos (R) warned on Tuesday night, “we are going to have a very liberal governor who is going to enact policies that are in direct contrast to what many of us believe in.”

    Wisconsin, where voters will be protected from the horrors of democracy.

  55. 55
    TenguPhule says:

    @jl:

    They have a chyron saying G.H.W. was a DemocRAT? I’m just curious.

    White RINO. You can tell because his horn was cut off and ground up to make dick juice medicine for Trump.

  56. 56
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax:

    By which time he will be planted and the ground designated a toxic waste site.

    Urea is an all natural substance that breaks down over time.

  57. 57
    Yarrow says:

    Love hearing Ronan Tynan.

  58. 58
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betsy:

    My 10-year-old niece called me out because I wore (dark) purple to her father’s (my brother’s) funeral. I explained that her grandmother didn’t want me to wear black and I was respecting her wishes, but she wasn’t having it. 😂

  59. 59
    germy says:

    Live your life so that you can attend a funeral without everyone suspecting all the eulogies are actually subtle rebukes against you.

  60. 60
    TenguPhule says:

    @Ian G.:

    I just don’t see him as more than just a hapless figurehead of what was really a Cheney-led junta.

    No, stop giving him a pass on agency. He was in it up to his neck on tax cuts, environmental degradation, torture and all the other 101 shitty things Republicans had as goals.

  61. 61
    Quinerly says:

    @germy: 💙

  62. 62
    The Dangerman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Simpson’s eulogy is a rebuke to the current President.

    Damn, I was downstairs (prepping for rain, I mean, in CA; what is this shit) and missed it. Details please?

    Simpson was always good at a nice quiet, folksy shiv and twist.

  63. 63
    TenguPhule says:

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    I guess my comment went into the ether. Remembering that President Obama explicitly warned T not to hire Michael Flynn. Should not be forgotten.

    Trump: “Perjury Trap! Everyone knows that if Obama had really wanted me to not hire Flynn, he should have told me to hire Flynn!”

  64. 64
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Yarrow:

    You know who has a very pleasant voice that would have made him a radio star? Donald Rumsfeld.

    I despise the asshole and all he stands for, but he has a great voice.

  65. 65
    danielx says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Because of course he is. Whatever the occasion may be, it is without exception about him.

  66. 66
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Kay: George Bush can tease and razz others like few can — you know, when someone is ribbing you and it could on the surface pass as affectionate but there is a knife in there?

    I think George recognizes an equal in Michelle. Now she is too well-mannered to wield her wit that way but we all know she could if she wanted to.

    What she sees in him, I am not sure. I think he can be gracious, and maybe even has a pang of conscious sometimes. Maybe Michelle is a more compassionate person than I am. Or maybe it is the camaraderie of being in the ex-White House occupants’ club.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: And so is W’s. The line about looking across the Atlantic and seeing unlimited opportunities on the horizon is a clear rebuke of America First.

  68. 68
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: “When he lost he shouldered the blame.” Heh.

  69. 69
    danielx says:

    @germy:

    If there’s anything Donald Trump has repeatedly proved he doesn’t care about, it’s debt. His own debts in particular, but any debt in general.

  70. 70
    Ian G. says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I’m not giving him a pass. The line above where you quote me specifically says he belongs in prison for war crimes. The other things you mention are bad, but not Iraq War-bad.

  71. 71
    NotMax says:

    @Mnemosyne

    Should I request the attire be Groucho glasses along with fluorescent green wetsuits accented by oversize raccoon tails would that be too much?

  72. 72
    Platonailedit says:

    The asshole couldn’t remove his overcoat before he entered the room. Or keep it on till it’s over. What a fugly thug.

    Trump shakes Barack and Michelle Obama's hands when he arrives, does not greet Presidents Carter or Clinton. Via CBS. pic.twitter.com/ugpZQ6qsMK— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) December 5, 2018

  73. 73
    TenguPhule says:

    @Ian G.: I disagree that he was just a figurehead. He was aware.

  74. 74
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oooh..even an anecdote about how he played golf fast so he could get on to other things. Bam!

  75. 75
    rikyrah says:

    In defiance of voters’ will, Wisconsin GOP advances brazen power-grab
    12/05/18 10:54 AM—UPDATED 12/05/18 11:02 AM
    By Steve Benen

    The election results in Wisconsin this year were unmistakable: voters in the Badger State handed Democrats victories up and down the ballot. As the dust settled on Election Day, we saw that voters had elected a Democratic governor, re-elected a Democratic U.S. senator, re-elected a Democratic secretary of state, and elected a Democratic state attorney general. Even in the state legislature, Democratic candidates easily won the most votes.
    As regular readers know, Wisconsin Republicans have responded to the election results with truly radical tactics, scrambling to approve a new power-grab before Dems take office in the new year. The agenda is as brazen as it is aggressive, targeting voting rights, election results, and the powers of state offices the GOP will no longer control.

    As of this morning, the agenda – unveiled late on Friday – is now on its way to becoming law.

    The Wisconsin Senate voted just before sunrise Wednesday following an all-night session to pass a sweeping bill in a lame-duck session designed to empower the GOP-controlled Legislature and weaken the Democrat replacing Republican Gov. Scott Walker.

    Republicans pushed on through protests, internal disagreement and Democratic opposition to the measures designed to reduce the powers of incoming Democratic Gov.-elect Tony Evers and Democratic Attorney General-elect Josh Kaul. Both Evers and Kaul urged Republicans not to do it, warning that lawsuits would bring more gridlock to Wisconsin when the new administration, and the first divided government in 10 years, takes over.

    But Republicans forged ahead regardless, passing it 17-16 with all Republicans except one in support. All Democrats voted against it. The Assembly was expected to pass the bill later Wednesday, sending it on to Walker for his consideration. Walker has signaled support.

  76. 76
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    I’m going to say it: W has a thing for Black women. A little bit of a fetish. Michelle Obama is his type.

    I’m not sure what Michelle sees in him, but I’ve always heard he can be very charming when he wants to, and his crush on her means that he wants her to like him, so he probably makes an extra effort to be nice to her.

  77. 77
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Dangerman: He recounted when the congressional leadership came to President Bush and explained they’d worked out a budget, but had a revenue problem. That they had to have some more revenue. Bush explained that his “no new taxes” pledge had placed him in a bit of a bind. The leadership explained they understood, but this had to happen, that they’d lined up actual bipartisan support, so there would be no hit to him, and Bush replied they should do it. So Bob Dole gets it through the Senate and then Bush’s own party shived him in the House. Bush’s response was, when it is something necessary for the country, then there are no Democrats, no Republicans, there is only what the country needs.

    W also just got in a good dig about the current President playing so much golf.

  78. 78
    Mnemosyne says:

    @NotMax:

    Oh, I’ve already told my mom that I’m going to wear a red dress to her funeral since she hates black so much. 😂💃

  79. 79
    jl says:

    @TenguPhule: Sadly, yes. A lot of evidence Dub was eager to invade Iraq as soon as he entered office, for both bad reasons and goofy fantiasies he believed in at the time. He did get downgrade Cheney when it became clear Dick was a walking moral and policy catastrophe. But can’t give too much credit. Dub entered office wanting to do unwise disastrous stuff, and was too easily persuaded by Cheney to do that bad stuff in immoral and catastrophic ways.

    And, Dub is still a true (and I think sincere) believer in supply side tax cut nonsense.And I recently read that Dub was pestered into many of his fairly small bore but good policy initiatives (there were a number of those), by FLOTUS Laura Bush. So, he doesn’t even get full credit of the often half-baked and underfunded good policies that came out of his administration.

    From what I have seen on youtube, Dub’s library puts on good conferences. And Dub bravely shows up to argue for some awful policies that the other speakers have shitcanned. Would have been better that he had not been president, even if in some respects, a more decent and well meaning, if extremely misguided and not very bright person (that is the obligatory somewhat better than Trump advisory). He is not nearly the bigot Trump is, so not really a good Republican anymore.

  80. 80
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks for the update. I’m sure that salty MFer cut through the hagiography for a bit.

  81. 81
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne: Dubya was so boning Condi Rice. Maybe we’ll even get to find out in another 25 years when the records are finally released.

  82. 82
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Mnemosyne: Can you give us examples? The only other Black woman in his orbit I can think of is Condoleezza Rice. Because this is an interesting concept.

  83. 83
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ian G.:

    W did massively increase funding to fight AIDS in Africa, so that’s one genuinely positive thing he did.

    That’s all I’ve got, though. Otherwise, he mostly just coasted along and let Rummy and Cheney go hog-wild with Iraq.

    Oh, the one other positive: when Cheney wanted to attack Iran, W put his foot down and refused to authorize it. So that’s two positive things out of the several million bad things he did or facilitated.

  84. 84
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    President Obama explicitly warned T not to hire Michael Flynn. Should not be forgotten.

    What drink goes best with cold revenge?

  85. 85
    rikyrah says:

    @TenguPhule:

    @Mnemosyne: Dubya was so boning Condi Rice. Maybe we’ll even get to find out in another 25 years when the records are finally released.

    I will never forget the Vanity Fair article that said that Condi called him ‘ my husband’.

  86. 86
    JPL says:

    @TenguPhule: She appeals folks of the same sex so I think that they were close friends, but that’s it.

  87. 87
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah: One of the things Democrats have got to stop doing is letting Republican off the hook once they’re out of office.

    Scott Walker’s ass should be ground zero for retaliation for all the unethical and illegal shit he was doing in office.

    Scott Pruitt should be in fucking jail pending investigation.

    Letting these assholes walk away from their arson only encourages them to keep setting fire to everything.

  88. 88
    rikyrah says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    3. After 9/11, Dubya didn’t target Muslims.

  89. 89
    NotMax says:

    @Mnemosyne

    Were I of the dress wearing crowd and said the same to her, Mom would immediately come back with “And I bet you already have it picked out.”

    ;)

  90. 90
    TenguPhule says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    What drink goes best with cold revenge?

    Vodka Martini.

  91. 91
    Yarrow says:

    The Rev. from Houston is also funny, at least his first remarks.

  92. 92
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: Yep.

  93. 93
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    After 9/11, Dubya didn’t target Muslims.

    Realize that he’s being given credit for bare minimum standard human decency that we would normally expect from the office holder.

  94. 94
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: I read Bush’s and Obama’s bonded when they worked on the Afriacn-American museum, and some other mutual projects they worked on after Dub left office. Even if a person has done some very bad things in their official capacity, you usually can’t let that get in the way of working with them on good projects afterwards, if they are sincere and try their best to do something good. Had to put in ‘usually’, since we have to consider the case of Trump now. But whether Trump would ever sincerely try his best to do anything good is hard to imagine.

  95. 95
    Quinerly says:

    @Adam L Silverman: do you think Trump is catching all these digs? I’ve counted close to 10 from all the eulogies so far. Is Bill speaking? It feels like the entire thing has been going on for a month. I barely remember the weekend. Can’t remember if I read that Bill was speaking. I was reminded the other day that Bill Clinton spoke at Nixon’s funeral, but then again it was during his administration.

  96. 96
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    The other big example is Condi Rice, who’s been in his political orbit for years. Other than that, it’s mostly a vibe I get from the way he acts around those two women in public.

  97. 97
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @TenguPhule:
    cf. Nixon, Richard Milhous

  98. 98
    JPL says:

    @Quinerly: Do you think trump is listening?

  99. 99
    NotMax says:

    @A Ghost To Most

    In Dolt 45’s case, a Moscow Mule.

  100. 100
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: Bill is not speaking. Usually the sitting president speaks so it’s a bit of a departure from protocol that Trump isn’t speaking. He would have spoken at Nixon’s in his capacity as the current president.

    Trump is a narcissist so he’ll see everything any of these people say as about him.

  101. 101
    Jeffro says:

    Slightly OT, but related because Trumpov sucks: VA voters approve of Northam, Amazon, and casinos but hate Trumpov.

    Figure it out, GOP. Or don’t – VA Dems don’t mind the in-kind assistance you give us just by your awful existence.

    Purple state my aunt fanny…

  102. 102
    Quinerly says:

    @JPL: he looks like he’s straining to take a shit. My new TV is scaring me. 😈

  103. 103
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:

    W actually had a major skill that Republicans tend to downplay: he’s a great dirty campaigner. They talked about Rove as “Bush’s Brain,” but that was to conceal the fact that W was all in for shit like planting the rumors about McCain’s “black” child in 2000.

    He trained with Lee Atwater on his father’s campaign, so it makes sense. W was a lousy president, but he was good at running for office.

  104. 104
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Quinerly:

    I’ve counted close to 10 [digs] from all the eulogies so far.

    The Twitter storm afterwards will be epic.

  105. 105
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax:

    In Dolt 45’s case, a Moscow Mule.

    Mules are unable to reproduce. //

  106. 106
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: In this case it goes beyond that. If a US elected official, in a senior capacity, had called for the round up of Muslims in the days after 9-11, similar to the Japanese internment during World War II, it would have had overwhelming popular support. It was hard enough for the political appointees to actually keep a lid on the door kickers at Immigration pre ICE/pre DHS, as well as their equivalent knuckle draggers at Border Protection pre ICE/pre DHS from just doing it any way. The US lost its collective/civil mind as a result of 9-11. We’re all still paying the cost for this insanity. But it could have gotten and been so much worse had President Bush (43) not done and said what he did regarding Muslims.

  107. 107
    germy says:

    Onion headlines:

    Furloughed Willie Horton Pays Respects At George H.W. Bush Funeral

    Grieving Nation Solemnly Waits Extra Day For Their Amazon Shit

  108. 108
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Yarrow:

    Trump is a narcissist so he’ll see everything any of these people say as about him.

    Yes, but his busy little narcissist’s brain will translate all of it into praise for himself. He’s smarter and tougher than GHWB because he’s doing the opposite of what that weak asshole did. The people criticizing him are losers who aren’t as great as he is, because he’s the president and they’re not. Etc.

  109. 109

    This may explain a lot about Michelle Obama’s ability to be kind:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h13f8SAZb44

  110. 110
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    Your point? Neither are martinis.

  111. 111
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Quinerly: I don’t know. I also don’t know.

  112. 112
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: yep. Protocol of sitting president. I was just wondering about Bill because his closeness with HW. I haven’t see the program… Is Baker speaking? (as an aside, I’m pretty sure I was drinking in a Gulf Shores bar during Nixon’s funeral (on TV) … Between first and second weekends of NOLA Jazz Fest… memories are funny. Boyfriend at the time was ranting about Nixon. Bartender was trying to get him to pipe down.)

  113. 113
    chris says:

    @Yarrow:

    he could have a career doing voice overs or recording books.

    If only he’d gone that route!

  114. 114
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly:

    It feels like the entire thing has been going on for a month.

    It’s been a crazy week with what has happened with the Mueller investigation and GHWB’s death. He only died late Friday night.

  115. 115
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @NotMax:
    Oh, hell yeah. That’s perfect.

    Even [soon to be] surrounded by copper[s].

  116. 116
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax: For Trump, perhaps a Cuckold’s comfort would be best.

  117. 117
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’ll look for the youtube clip where anyone talks about that wrt to GHW. Guess won’t rate a mention at the memorial. And GHW was certainly OK with it, since he couldn’t figure out any other way to vainly try save his political skin when he ran for re-election. Which is good to remember when we hear all the talk about these oldsters putting country over party, or over themselves. GHW couldn’t figure out how to follow up on Reagan without doubling down on Reagan’s worst cynical political gimmicks to bring the bigots on board.

    The Southern Strategy is like the original sin of the current mess that is the GOP, and it has spread to general racism, bigotry and xenophobia. So when discussing even the ‘good’ GOPers’ mix of strengths and weaknesses, I think important to note that some of their flaws are radical and fundamental. Probably have to go back to Eisenhower to find a GOP pres where you can talk about them without noting that very bad aspect. And Eisenhower was apolitical until he decided to run as a Republican to try to keep them from turning into this current mess.

  118. 118
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: James Baker is speaking at the private funeral at the Bush’s home church in Houston.

  119. 119
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: knocking Cohen out of the news cycle. It’s all coming back to me.

  120. 120
    TenguPhule says:

    Huh, so Trump had to take a limo and motorcade to travel 250 yards at the funeral grounds.

    This man is so fucking fat he can no longer even attempt to run anywhere.

  121. 121
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: that’s right, at least another day of this. Gotta drag the body back to Texas.

  122. 122
    rikyrah says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    And, the Bush twins were very nice and helpful to Malia and Sasha.

  123. 123
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: Yep. And then since yesterday was kind of a slow day funeral-wise (body just lying in state; no events) Mueller dropped a few more things. Then today will be nothing, and probably not tomorrow (church funeral; burial) and then Friday will be Manafort.

  124. 124
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t think narcissism works that way. What you’ve outlined are the messages he sends to the world, but the howling void at his core tells him he’s worthless. I suspect he parses every word for slights and sees them whether they’re there or not.

  125. 125
    hoodie says:

    @Mnemosyne: W has a nasty side, which he shared with his father and, like his father, he is so very entitled. However, he can have a warm sense of humor and has some ability to laugh at himself. He’s the frat guy who can be funny, but can also be an asshole. He was in no way qualified to be president but would have been fine as a baseball commissioner because, among other things, he is capable of empathy and is not a flaming racist. His dad had a similar personality but better discipline and training, which made him nominally qualified for the office.

  126. 126
    Tazj says:

    @TaMara (HFG): That was good.

  127. 127
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rikyrah: The Bush twins seem decent. I also suspect Laura Bush is a nice woman who happens to have rotten taste in men. Old Babs Bush was tough as nails, but Laura isn’t.

  128. 128
    Quinerly says:

    @hoodie: W came by his nasty side naturally. Wanna talk about Barbara?

  129. 129
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: It’s what happens with all former presidents when they die. State funeral in Washington, followed by burial in place of their choice–recently seems to be at their presidential libraries. Those are not in D.C. so they have to get the body to wherever the library is.

    I am not at all surprised by the second funeral at their church. By all accounts they were devoted to that church and were members for 50 years.

    Edit: I guess the state funeral is expected but maybe not required? I don’t know how that works.

  130. 130
    TenguPhule says:

    So, yeah, sure, you can thank Bush for some things he did that genuinely made the nation kinder and gentler, like the Americans with Disabilities Act or his environmental record (putting aside, for obvious reasons, his years as a Texas oil man). But that’s the way it’s always been: no matter how shitty you think a president might be, he does a few things that you think aren’t bad. It’s like if you’re fucking a porcupine’s asshole, and, once every ten thrusts or so, you don’t get a quill in your dick. At the end of the day, you’re still fucking a porcupine’s asshole. (Sure, it’s consensual. The porcupine wanted it.)

    Rude Pundit is refreshing.

  131. 131
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I remember well the over-the-top expressions of post-9/11 American anger towards Muslims as a whole. Anne Coulter was right there in it, demanding that the US conquer Muslim countries and convert people to Christianity. And one or two geniuses urging that Makkah be nuked because reasons.

  132. 132
    A Ghost To Most says:

    OT: For Isbell fans, “Live at the Ryman” is an excellent review of the last 3 albums.

  133. 133
    HinTN says:

    @Martin: Dubya always did what it took to make daddy happy, which led to his singularly awful political being. But as a person I think he got all the sincerity of his father and a shitload of human goodness from Laura.

  134. 134
    JPL says:

    @Quinerly: Thank you, because now I feel vindicated. I mentioned that to a friend earlier
    Poor trump is constipated obviously.

  135. 135
    HinTN says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Meacham writes turgid prose and backs it up with a shallow mind.

  136. 136
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: I just looked up Nixon’s death in 1994 and I would have been in Gulf Shores (so patting myself on my back for my good memory😈) I actually like Nixon a letter better after just reading about his funeral.. dead Nixon stayed put in CA and not all this flying back and forth like dead McCain, dead Bush, dead Billy Graham. 😈😈

  137. 137
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: are you sure that it was W’s great moral character behind that, or was it the incredibly close (one might say “treasonous”) relationship between the House of Bush and the House of Saud?

  138. 138
    gwangung says:

    Worst thing I heard about the Bush twins is that they had makeout sessions on the White House roof. (Which is, like, considerate for not making it hard on Secret Service, and, totally, something I’d do if I got the chance….).

  139. 139
    jl says:

    @Betty Cracker: To amplify my comment above, I read that what little good conservation policies came out of Dub admin, were due to Laura Bush incessant pestering, particularly marine conservation areas. She was also a big behind the scene booster of some good health system modernization policies that started under Bush, like electronic health records (figures, for a librarian), and what little good educational policy came out of Dub. So. when we look really hard to find good stuff to puff up Dub’s presidential resume, a lot of it was due to the FLOTUS nagging him.

    I’ve sometimes thought that the country would be in much better shape now if HRC and Laura Bush had been president instead of their spouses, at least in terms of policy.

  140. 140

    @TenguPhule: I’ve wondered about his mobility lately. How far have we seen him walk?

  141. 141
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Quinerly: my god, that woman was awful. And all her kids turned out that way too.

  142. 142
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: I think I remember hearing that. Something about how he didn’t have a state funeral in Washington, having resigned before he most likely would have been impeached.

    I wonder what Carter has decided to do. I can see him not wanting all this pomp and circumstance. He’s a committed Christian and I’d imagine his funeral would be important to him from a religious point of view.

  143. 143
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: As Moar You know said, he’s President Creosote. The explosion will be incredibly messy

  144. 144
    Yarrow says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: He walked up the aisle today at the Cathedral, so he can walk that far at least. And like the rude asshole he is, he didn’t take off his overcoat prior to walking up the aisle, so he did it right there at his seat and handed it to the military person escorting him, treating him like his valet. Ugh.

  145. 145
    Quinerly says:

    @JPL: I’m not into huge tvs… This 43″ ultra HD, blah, blah thing is the biggest TV I have ever owned. It truly startled me when I saw Trump. It looked like he is sitting on a toilet above the fireplace in this Air BnB I’m putting together.😈 I came close to screaming and scaring Poco.

  146. 146
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yep. As badly as the US responded to 9-11, it could have been so much worse. Imagine what would have happened if we’d been in the middle of the nativism/neo-nationalist cycle then that we’re in now?

  147. 147
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @HinTN: I’m not saying he’s a good biographer, I’m just saying he was President Bush’s (41) biographer.

  148. 148
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Oh, he knows at his core that he’s worthless, which is why his brain frantically spins any criticism into secret praise or proof that other people don’t appreciate his genius.

    It’s a tricky line, because narcissists can’t be socially shamed by criticism from other people and will never change their behavior based on criticism from others. Pretty much the only way to shame them is to publicly reveal their bad actions, but even that won’t get them to change their behavior, because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with their behavior.

    So the criticism is going to sting and will probably make him lash out later, but it will be because he feels he was unfairly attacked and has to defend himself, not because he’s responding to their actual words.

  149. 149
    TenguPhule says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    How far have we seen him walk?

    On average, judging from his trips from Motorcade to AF-1, nothing more then 100 yards maximum.

    Talk about weak and no energy….

  150. 150
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: He’ll probably have it in Plains. I think he still teaches Sunday school there from time to time.

  151. 151
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: The Hoarse Whisperer has detailed this shame cycle very well.

  152. 152
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I honestly don’t care what it was. That he did what needed to be done, which was the hard thing to do at that moment, and not give in to those screaming to enact their own personal vengeances for an attack that they had not personally suffered from was important. I don’t care if he did it because they gave him an extra corn dog and package of ding dongs for lunch. All that matters is at that moment he did the right thing.

  153. 153
    Quinerly says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think 41 is the only recent president not to write his memoirs.

  154. 154
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Meanwhile, back on Earth2:

    Believers in QAnon, the conspiracy theory that claims President Donald Trump and special counsel Robert Mueller are actually working together to uncover a global pedophile ring, are very excited by some of the developments they’re seeing at former President George H.W. Bush’s funeral.

    As the Daily Beast’s Will Sommer reports, many QAnon believers have marked December 5th as the day when Trump will begin conducting mass arrests of his political foes, including former Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.


    Because of course

  155. 155
    The Dangerman says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Huh, so Trump had to take a limo and motorcade to travel 250 yards at the funeral grounds.

    I’m guessing that the Acting-AG Whitaker got an unredacted version of the memo yesterday (or whenever). If Whitaker got it, Trump got it. So, he knows if he’s boned or not. I’m assuming the former since the latter would have somehow made it’s way to Fox “News” somehow.

  156. 156
    Yarrow says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Did you see my comment to you last night re: vagus nerve stimulation? Let me know if you want more info. Don’t know if it would be helpful to your wife.

  157. 157
    jl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: ” if he did it because they gave him an extra corn dog and package of ding dongs for lunch. ”

    You getting GW Bush and Trump mixed up?

  158. 158
    rikyrah says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I also suspect Laura Bush is a nice woman who happens to have rotten taste in men.

    That’s how I feel about Laura Bush. I don’t get a mean or nasty undercurrent from her.

  159. 159
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @The Dangerman:

    I’m assuming the former since the latter would have somehow made it’s way to Fox “News” somehow.

    The fox that didn’t bark?

  160. 160
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Dangerman: The last reporting I saw last week was that DAG Rosenstein was still overseeing the Special Counsel. This was reported by Nicole Wallace at MSNBC and she sourced it to her senior contacts at the DOJ.

  161. 161
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: No I’m not. If it was the current President I’d have written: “I don’t care if they gave him an extra Quarter Pounder with cheese and an extra deep fried apple pie for lunch”.

  162. 162
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Agreed. I don’t really care why he did what he did. He did the right thing, which was a difficult thing at the time. Good for him for doing that.

  163. 163
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Yarrow: I did, thank you. Will let you know. She wants to give Mayo their chance to fix it first!

    @Adam L Silverman: my point is that he doesn’t deserve great credit for doing the right thing if, as I believe, he did it simply to protect the Saud Crime Family and by extension the Bush Crime Family*.

    *RIP, Bartcop!

  164. 164
    Ruckus says:

    @Ian G.:
    That cheny led part is spot on. Remember when GWB wouldn’t pardon cheny’s buddy, which he told GWB to do?
    My thought then was that he wasn’t 100% shit.

  165. 165
    HinTN says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    But it could have gotten and been so much worse had President Bush (43) not done and said what he did regarding Muslims.

    Exactly right, sir.

  166. 166
    Mnemosyne says:

    @rikyrah:

    The Bush twins have turned out much better than I expected them to. I suspect that’s probably their mother’s influence.

    It’s also possible that, like my dad and father-in-law of a similar generation, W made a conscious decision to be a different kind of parent to his kids than his parents were with him.

  167. 167
    HinTN says:

    @Quinerly: Good to know you like the Jazz Fest!

  168. 168
    Yarrow says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Sounds good. The gargling is kind of amazing and anyone can try it. It really gets the whole system moving. LOL. It also has an effect on the brain, according to the video I mentioned. Kind of amazing. Good luck to your wife.

  169. 169
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: The Bush twins seem like really nice people. Something went right there in their parenting and home life.

    I am interesting in seeing what the Obama daughters end up doing. They seem like nice people too, from what little we get to see of them. Just to be clear, I’m all for Presidents’ kids being private people unless they choose to have public lives.

  170. 170
    Chyron HR says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I also suspect Laura Bush is a nice woman who happens to have rotten taste in men.

    Good aim, though.

  171. 171
    bobbo says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    If Trump is parsing every word uttered for an implicit rebuke to himself (and you know he is), he must be about to explode.

    No way. He has zero self-awareness

  172. 172
    HinTN says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Copy that. I just cannot resist any opportunity to slag on him.

  173. 173
    JMG says:

    @The Dangerman: Nope. Whitaker not necessarily privy to memo. Could have demanded to see it, I suppose, but if so, that would’ve leaked. Lots of people at Justice would love to fix his wagon. Whitaker’s profile has been very low, one must admit. I wonder if Mueller told him enough, both about the probe and Whitaker’s own file, to convince him he didn’t want to know any more. That’d be an FBI homage, the way how good old J. Edgar would’ve handled it.

  174. 174
    Uncle Jeffy says:

    @Yarrow: Trump was actually wearaing a tan suit but the fake news media edited the picture to make him look like he’s respectable (haw, haw, haw…..)

  175. 175
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Yarrow:

    Yes, I’m cribbing quite a bit from him. He’s had some great threads over the past week talking about the difference between a normal person’s shame and a narcissist’s shame. Everyone should read him. 😁

  176. 176
    cope says:

    And now for something completely OT: SpaceX cut their live feed from the first stage as it got within a few thousand feet of landing back on dry land. Commentators said it made a “water landing”. Before the video from the descending first stage was cut, it was starting to spin and turn in an uncharacteristic way and I said to mrs. cope that this landing was not going to end well. Apparently, it did not.

  177. 177
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @TenguPhule:
    But… that’s what the voters wanted! Did anybody phrase that in a follow-up question?

  178. 178
    Quinerly says:

    @HinTN: had about a 20 year run until 2007. It got so commercial and unfortunately got off my radar. Saw some great shows… on the fence almost touching Dylan, dancing in the rain with Maria Muldaur, crying during Bruce and the Seeger Sessions Band after Katrina….Not to mention eating Crawfish Monica with Ed Bradley and smoking pot under some bleachers with Adam Duritz (please don’t let that latter little tidbit get out… my reputation would be shot… he basically was a “one hit wonder.” 😈)

  179. 179
    geg6 says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Nobody does that unless they are at the Vatican. Or a damn drama queen or a nonna from Italy or some eastern European country. Been to literally dozens of Catholic funerals, including those of my parents and no one has worn veils in church since Vatican II (unless one is actually at the Vatican or one of those drama queens/nonnas).

  180. 180
    patrick II says:

    @Martin:

    If there was a God, Trump would have burst into flames just sitting there.

    Or, conversely, if it is the angry, old testament god, he would have elected Trump president for us to pay for our sins since he promised never to flood the place again.

  181. 181
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @rikyrah: Don’t know much about her, but I remember her telling a completely pointless lie about a love poem that W had written. He did not write it. She shrugged the incident off but I remember thinking then about pathological liars who tell lies for no reason, even when everybody knows it’s an obvious lie.

    So I wasn’t endeared to her.

  182. 182
    Betty Cracker says:

    @bobbo: Trump thinks he’s the only creature on the planet who matters and that everyone else is a bit player in his grand drama. Of course he thinks everybody is talking about him, all the time. That’s not self-awareness — it’s narcissism.

  183. 183
    Mnemosyne says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    President Donald Trump and special counsel Robert Mueller are actually working together to uncover a global pedophile ring …

    The Jeffrey Epstein thing makes me a whole lot more suspicious of the whole “QAnon” cult. Epstein BFF Trump is implicated in Epstein’s actual global pedophile ring, so Trump’s supporters just happen to create an online cult where Trump is secretly trying to bust a global pedophile ring?

    This is psy-ops. Not 4Chan having a giggle. This is the real thing, created by professionals.

  184. 184
    Chris T. says:

    @Martin: I believe that when GWBush was elected, he was still in “frat boy” mode. Possibly starting with 9/11, but definitely after Katrina, something changed in him and he actually started to care. The responsibility came then, though it was too late. You can see it in photos: most presidents age overnight when they get into office, but W aged suddenly between “pre-Katrina” and “post-Katrina”.

  185. 185
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah, he’s great at talking about what narcissists do and thus what we can expect to see Trump do. He’s really spot on with some of the stuff that happens and his insight is really useful. Between him and then you and some others posting here I’ve learned a lot about narcissists.

    I have a distant relative who is a narcissist. She’s always been very difficult to deal with but since I don’t see her much it’s been at a distance. Learning about narcissists has been valuable to me in understanding her actions and knowing what to expect if I’m forced to interact with her. I

  186. 186
    TriassicSands says:

    @Butch:
    Anything that cuts into Trump’s Twitter time is maddening for the creep.

    Is the utterly phony aggrandizement of GHWB almost over? It is so tiresome.

    The best that could be said of Bush was that he had an exceptional resume and he was mediocre (at best) at every one of the positions he held. (That doesn’t include his military service.)

    Does a person of fine character really approve of things like the Willie Horton ad? I think not.

    The media have been gushing about what a decent fellow Bush was. If they want an example of a former president who was truly decent then they should be talking about Carter. Bush couldn’t survive an honest comparison with Carter.

  187. 187
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    This is psy-ops. Not 4Chan having a giggle. This is the real thing, created by professionals.

    Ding, ding, ding!

  188. 188
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Kay: Everything would have been fine if he’d kept his tiny mitts out of the works.

  189. 189
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Kay: She has such charm. It seems hard NOT to like/admire her. If people don’t like her I find myself wondering what’s wrong with them.

  190. 190
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Martin:

    I’ve often thought that I might find Dubya endearing if he’d become the Baseball Commissioner instead of president.

  191. 191
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Meh, she wouldn’t be the first wife who convinced herself that her shallow frat-bro husband had secret emotional depths that no one else could see. 🤷‍♀️ Spousal lies worry me less than political lies.

  192. 192
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Betty Cracker: Yes, every mention of virtue points out his deficiency.

  193. 193
    snoey says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Not mutually exclusive – 4Chan had a giggle, it lived and bubbled up in the swamp, then the pros dumped yeast on it.

  194. 194
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Last Catholic funeral I went to most people were in jeans and workboots.

  195. 195

    @Mnemosyne: True. The catholic funeral I went to as a child, the close family wore veils, sisters, mother etc.
    Goan Catholics are probably more old school than American ones?

  196. 196

    @TenguPhule: Possibly, my recollection is from the 80s.

  197. 197
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Ian G.: When I saw his book of paintings I thought wistfully about how much better off he and we’d have been if only he’d run off to Paris to paint.

  198. 198
    japa21 says:

    @schrodingers_cat: A lot does depend on where the church is located, even in the US. Go tyo funerals, or even regular masses in NW Chicago, heart of the Polish community, and a lot of veils are seen, as well as in the Latino areas. Go to the suburban churches and they aren’t in evidence.

  199. 199
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    This is psy-ops. Not 4Chan having a giggle.

    Obviously you’re not very familiar with the crazy in 4chan.

  200. 200
    Mandalay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    You know who has a very pleasant voice that would have made him a radio star? Donald Rumsfeld.

    O/T but I feel the same way about Preet Bharara, except he does have a radio show. I could listen to him speak all day. Ray Suarez at PBS is very soothing as well.

  201. 201
    TenguPhule says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I think Hollywood might be to blame for that. Possibly the Godfather movie.

  202. 202
    Mnemosyne says:

    @snoey:

    I think 4Chan has way more professional psy-ops folks from foreign governments hanging around and instigating shit than people are willing to admit.

    The Russians are deeply embedded in the “hacktivist” community, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. It’s part of their propaganda operation against the West.

  203. 203
    zhena gogolia says:

    @TenguPhule:

    It was a pretty Catholic thing. I doubt the Bush women ever went in for that.

  204. 204
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Veils and “formal” mourning clothing do not feature in WASP funerals at all.

  205. 205
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @TenguPhule: Yeah, those were the days.

  206. 206
    Mnemosyne says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    They probably are more old school — as someone else said above, even in the US there’s an ethnic/cultural component, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Goan Catholics have different mores. But veils and hats are pretty rare at American funerals these days.

  207. 207
    Chyron HR says:

    @cope:

    What part of “Bow down, mortals, and worship the rightful ruler of mankind, Mark Beaks El*n M*sk!” do you not understand?

  208. 208
    geg6 says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Naw. I grew up in the church and I haven’t seen a veil in church (excepting those on brides) since the mid-60s. Vatican II killed all that crap. If you saw it in a Catholic church after that, it’s because it was an old person or the pastor was one of those priests who thought Vatican II was the work of the devil…I would think of the kind of church Mel Gibson would go to.

  209. 209
    TenguPhule says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:

    Did anybody phrase that in a follow-up question?

    These days I’m not sure reporters even understand the term “follow-up question”.

  210. 210
    snoey says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    No doubt it didn’t have to bubble very far, but the natives tend to produce stuff with better resonance than outsiders can invent.

  211. 211
    trollhattan says:

    @japa21:
    This is how it’s done, when it’s done.

  212. 212
    HeleninEire says:

    Time diff means I’m only watching clips now. I’m sure everyone is talking about who shook hands with whom when T sat down. Wonkette has a whole post about it.

    Here’s my take. The entire fucking wingnutsphere is gonna be screaming bloody murder that Michelle wore PANTS!&@&#ELEVENTY.

  213. 213

    @Omnes Omnibus: In the Crown, there was a big fuss about Elizabeth not having a black outfit with her when she gets the news of her father’s death. All the women in the royal family were wearing black at the funeral, I think the King’s mother even wore an old fashioned widow’s peak (which looks like Paul Ryan’s hairline). Rules for royalty but none for commoners?

  214. 214
    TenguPhule says:

    Speaking of Pictures telling a story….

    Alex Jones grovels in a frog costume, and other symptoms of Twitter withdrawal

    If you want to know the entire backstory about Alex Jones and frogs, look elsewhere. Something about the government “putting chemicals in the water that TURN THE FRIGGIN’ FROGS GAY!,” as Jones once screamed while pounding a fist into his desk in the Infowars studio — a few years before he and his fake news network were banned by Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Apple this summer.

    But probably no backstory can fully explain why Jones dressed up as a frog in a tutu on Halloween and begged in baby talk: “Infowars is sowwy! Please let us back on Twitter!”

    LMAO.

    On Thursday, the right-wing journalist Laura Loomer put on a yellow Star of David badge — the same style “Nazis made the Jews wear during the Holocaust,” she explained through a bullhorn as she handcuffed herself to the front door of Twitter’s office in New York.

    Loomer proceeded to complain to passersby, live-stream viewers and eventually responding police officers that Twitter had suspended her account earlier in the week. She felt the ban was part of a repression campaign against conservatives, though a Twitter representative said that Loomer had repeatedly violated its rules, and the company has denied taking users’ politics into account when it punished bad actors.

    She propped a blown-up printout of an offending tweet against the door and vowed not to unchain herself until the “human rights violation that is being perpetuated and aided by these dictators … in Silicon Valley” had ended.

    When no dictators immediately emerged to repent, a police officer asked Loomer if she wanted help un-cuffing herself.

    “I want my Twitter!” Loomer said.

    “Do you want us to cut you from the door?” the officer asked again.

    “I wish I could say something, but Twitter and Facebook won’t let me speak,” Loomer said.

  215. 215
    JPL says:

    @HeleninEire: They will discuss Michelle’s attire after they finish criticizing Hillary for not recognizing trump.

  216. 216
    Barbara says:

    @schrodingers_cat: They have all kinds of rules, like wearing only dresses and matching hats to official events. Apparently the hats help with security because they make it easier to keep track of you in a crowd. Ever notice how brightly QEII dresses?

  217. 217
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I took a quick look at the photos and a black suit or dress seem to be the order of the day for women, sometimes trimmed with white or gray. Michelle Obama’s suit was pinstriped and Laura Bush had a gray/white tweed trim on her black suit.

  218. 218
    TenguPhule says:

    Despite a vow from Trump to pull out of the Paris climate agreement, the United States is again sending a delegation to the U.N. conference, which is being held in Poland.

    But the Trump administration is not attending the two-week meeting without making its policy preferences known. The U.S. government is planning to hold a side event promoting fossil fuels as part of the solution to global warming.

    Fiction: “Okay, Reality, that’s enough. I surrender. You win.”

  219. 219
    jonas says:

    @Ian G.: I recall back in 2003 as the 04 presidential race was getting underway, I caught a segment of some bass fishing show on some outdoor life cable channel (back when they all weren’t just running shows about storage locker auctions or aliens) and it featured good ol’ W as a guest. Sitting in a boat talking about fishing gear and how lovely nature was, etc., he was perfectly relaxed, lucid, funny — all the stuff you just pointed out that contrasted so sharply with his often cranky, uncomfortable, incoherent persona as president. Then it hit me. This guy never wanted to be president. He probably hates it. He just wanted to host a bass fishing show. And you know what? He would have been pretty good at it.

    Unfortunately, he didn’t have the self awareness to tell himself, “you know what? I think I’ll avoid politics and stick with the fishing.”

  220. 220
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: QEII is not an American WASP.

  221. 221
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: Not formal mourning clothing then.

  222. 222
    Mnemosyne says:

    @snoey:

    Psst. Quite a few of the “natives” are Russian operatives who have been working that site for a decade.

    The Russians didn’t begin this shit in 2016. They’ve been deeply involved in online propaganda and operations since at least 2010, if not earlier. And there are probably quite a few North Korean and Chinese operatives stirring up shit as well.

  223. 223
    janesays says:

    @TenguPhule: He was in it insofar as he allowed all of it to happen when he always had the power to stop it and for that alone he deserves all of the criticism he gets as a horrible president, but I don’t think he was the primary instigator of most of it – that distinction belongs to Dick Cheney.

  224. 224
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: It’s also no longer 1952.

  225. 225
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    No American has worn formal mourning clothing since JFK’s funeral, and Jackie did it because they were Catholics. 🤷‍♀️ It’s just out of fashion to do it.

  226. 226
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Walk??!? Harkonnen-style suspensors under the suit jacket – his tiny toes barely touch the ground.

  227. 227
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Barbara:

    I’ve heard that another reason she dresses in such bright colors in public is that it allows everyone in the crowd to say that they saw the Queen. Sure, she was a tiny lime-green dot 300 yards away, but they saw her! 😂

  228. 228
    TenguPhule says:

    What the fuck is wrong with California’s LEO in Sacramento?

    California law enforcement pursued criminal charges against eight anti-fascist activists who were stabbed or beaten at a neo-Nazi rally while failing to prosecute anyone for the knife attacks against them, according to police records reviewed by the Guardian.

    In addition to the decision not to charge white supremacists or others for stabbings at a far-right rally that left people with critical wounds, police also investigated 100 anti-fascist counter-protesters, recommending more than 500 total criminal charges against them, according to court filings from civil rights attorneys.

    Meanwhile, for men investigated on the neo-Nazi side of a June 2016 brawl at the state capitol, police recommended only five mostly minor charges, none related to stabbings.

    Lawyers produced new records this week as prosecutors in Sacramento prepared for a hearing in their long-running case against three anti-fascist counter-protesters, who have been charged with rioting and assault.

    For two of the counter-protesters facing potential prison time, law enforcement officers surveilled their social media activity and cited their leftwing politics and affiliation with Chicano and indigenous rights groups as evidence against them, the police reports revealed.

  229. 229
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Betty Cracker: True.

  230. 230
    NotMax says:

    @Mnemosyne

    Would be, um, awkward if it was a Hugo Boss tweed.

    ;)

  231. 231
    Kay says:

    @Martin:

    Dan Linden
    ‏Verified account
    @DanLinden
    3h3 hours ago
    More Dan Linden Retweeted Dan Linden
    Watch closely: It appears Bush 43 handed something to Michelle Obama – like he did during the funeral service for Sen. John McCain.

    I think this relationship is hysterical. She has a weirdly awkward admirer.

  232. 232
    The Moar You Know says:

    What the fuck is wrong with California’s LEO in Sacramento?

    @TenguPhule: It’s inland California. Unsalvagable and frankly, I’d rather live in the Deep South if I had to pick. Which I don’t.

    Of course the people fighting Nazis were the criminals. I bet half the people out protesting with the Nazis were undercover cops. It’s like that even in SF and Oakland, where we’ve been seeing the local cops come out and encourage (hell, riot with) thugs and violent rioters for decades.

  233. 233

    @Mnemosyne:

    You know who has a very pleasant voice that would have made him a radio star? Donald Rumsfeld.

    An old sweetheart of mine tells the story of meeting Rumsfeld in Rome when she was a teenager there in the mid-seventies (her father was with the Foreign Service), and relates that she was utterly smitten by him—that he “radiated power.” Like you, she despises him as a public figure, and was a little embarrassed to relate the encounter.

  234. 234
    Kay says:

    Italian Alex Pareene
    ‏@pareene
    23m23 minutes ago
    More Italian Alex Pareene Retweeted triple meat whataburger liberal
    Carter wasn’t a “good president” but according to the virtues the pundit class claims to admire he was easily the best since, I dunno, Ike. Except he failed the only criterion they actually judge pols by, which is “win, don’t lose.”

    This is true. They don’t really admire any of these things. They admire swaggering, kinda dumb bullies.

  235. 235
    Yarrow says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Related: Remember when QEII threw shade at Trump when he visited by wearing the brooch her mother wore to her father’s funeral?

    The brooch was a gift passed down to her by her mother, who wore it during the 1952 state funeral for her husband, King George VI (Queen Elizabeth’s father). It appears prominently in the famous “Three Queens” photo from the occasion.

    Link.

  236. 236
    Chyron HR says:

    @Kay:

    Wasn’t GHWB just as big a loser as Carter? Moreso, since Carter lost to the king and Bush lost to a mere pretender?

  237. 237
    Wild Cat says:

    @Ohio Mom: I think Georgie W. is as erotically charged by black women as he is erotically charged when he sent many innocent black men to their deaths in Texas as governor.

  238. 238
    snoey says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    We’re not really disagreeing much, if at all. Trolls go back to usenet. Just think the smart operatives sit back and let the hordes of volunteer shit-posters work and then stir their best output.

  239. 239
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Kay:

    He’s like a 13-year-old boy with a crush on his teacher. Awkward and yet hilarious. She handles it just right, too.

  240. 240
    sgrAstar says:

    @Yarrow: trump didn’t walk up the aisle…it looked like he came in through a side door.

  241. 241

    @Betty Cracker:

    I also suspect Laura Bush is a nice woman who happens to have rotten taste in men.

    She appeared to get along with the Prince of Wales, though (“every picture tells a story,” indeed).

  242. 242
  243. 243
    Kay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    He’s like a 13-year-old boy with a crush on his teacher

    Exactly.

    When Mr. Rodgers was little he told his mother he wanted to marry her- his mother. She told him “I’m already married” which I think is just genius-level kindness. Not “that’s weird and scary and stop saying it” which would humiliate him, but a complete, elegant dodge of the whole issue.

  244. 244
    Mnemosyne says:

    @snoey:

    Yeah, I think the foreign operatives are way more active in stirring up the shit and spreading ideas than you seem to think. As I said, I doubt that 4Chan “just happened” to decide to accuse the Democrats of running an international pedophile ring for the lulz when Trump was actually involved in one according to public records. They — with the help of the Russians — came up with it to divert attention away from Trump’s ties to Jeffrey Epstein.

    QAnon is a Russian psy-ops and propaganda operation, not something a bunch of losers at 4Chan made up as a joke that just happened to spread. That’s the cover story, not the reality.

  245. 245
    joel hanes says:

    @TenguPhule:

    stop giving [W] a pass on agency

    When tempted to do so, take a look at his record of [non-] clemency as governor of Texas.
    He sent hundreds to death without a second thought, although he was required to be briefed on each execution.

    A bad and weak man who has perhaps grown a bit.

  246. 246
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Rand Careaga:

    I also suspect Laura Bush is a nice woman who happens to have rotten taste in men.

    She appeared to get along with the Prince of Wales, though (“every picture tells a story,” indeed).

    I think this may be sarcasm on your part, but I haven’t had lunch yet. 🤔

    Given his poor relationship skills, I would include Prince Charles in the ranks of “rotten men.”

  247. 247
    snoey says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    We’re only differing on the creative writing part. Of course the operatives select and weaponize.

  248. 248
    J R in WV says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I would include Prince Charles in the ranks of “rotten men.”

    Well, maybe so. He made some huge mistakes in his personal life, but mostly while under the influence of “Royal” traditionalists in charge of keeping rigid social traditions enforced around the British Royal family. It would be easy for you or I to do as we wished or felt we must in our personal lives.

    We don’t have a Royal Historian telling us what would be acceptable in a Royal Prince’s behavior, insisting that we must live up to family traditions formed in a different world centuries ago. Imagine having the Tower of London and it’s grisly history in your family background!

    So I’m inclined to cut Prince Chuck some slack in his personal life on account of the Royal retainers meddling constantly in his whole life. Not a lot, but some.

  249. 249
    scott (the other one) says:

    She has far too much class to ever do this, of course, but imagine, just imagine, if as she’s shaking hands as the Trumps sit down, Michelle had whispered, “Mueller…Mueller…he’s comin’ to getcha…”

    The psychic damage that would have done. He wouldn’t have been able to stay for even another 10 minutes, I’ll bet.

    (Also, I’ll bet no one has yet said anything to him even remotely like that in person. “So, you know your sons are going to prison, right? You know we all know Putin’s your daddy, yes?”)

  250. 250
    Mnemosyne says:

    @J R in WV:

    Oh, it’s not solely his fault — Camilla contributed her own full share of dumb-assery with her actions, and he has demonstrated a weird kind of fidelity towards her for almost 50 years. But it was dickish of him to marry a 19-year-old when he was still in love with someone else. At least the kids seem to have turned out pretty much okay, and Charles seems to have decided from Day One that his response when they announced who they wanted to marry would be, “Whatever makes you happy, boys!”

    I saw some other royal news from that 1980s era that intrigued me if true: apparently Fergie moved back in with her ex-husband Prince Andrew a while back (like over 10 years ago) and they have a contented polyamorous relationship outside of the public eye. It’s not my cup of tea, but I guess it’s working for them. 🤷‍♀️

  251. 251
    jl says:

    @scott (the other one): He’s met Laura Bush several times? Maybe she said ‘God bless your heart!” I believe she’s native Texan.

  252. 252
    Mnemosyne says:

    @snoey:

    Like any fisherman does, they chum the waters at 4Chan to see what bait the fish rise to. And if one of the fish comes up with their own bait that draws the other fish in, so much the better.

  253. 253
    Zinsky says:

    Hillary should have stood up, sidled past Trump to the aisle, wound up and slapped President Clown Hair so hard his face stung and screamed, “Lock me up now, you traitorous pervert!” On national TV!

    Digby made the same observation on her blog that every word of praise spoken about Bush 41 seemed like a direct slam against Trump, since he is so utterly lacking in grace or any virtues!

  254. 254
    Mnemosyne says:

    @snoey:

    And just a bit of context: the reason I’m being kind of a dick about this is that I’ve seen way too many people claim that propaganda ops like the claim that the DNC was running a pedophile ring from a DC pizza parlor are 4Chan jokes that just happened to get out into the wild and spread, so therefore we should ignore or dismiss them.

    4Chan is knee-deep in creating and spreading Russian psy-ops and propaganda, so when people (not you!) dismiss obvious Russian propaganda as “Oh, that’s just something 4Chan made up for the lulz — they don’t really mean it,” they’re actually helping the Russians hide their work.

  255. 255
    Zinsky says:

    @Rand Careaga: Rumsfeld was a real charmer! Selling precursor chemicals for nerve gas to Saddam Hussein – whatta guy! Here is a link that shows Donnie on a date with Saddam!!

  256. 256
    dogwood says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    You aren’t being a dick. This is serious stuff. It will destroy this nation if we slough it off as mere internet craziness. And as far as the Epstein stuff goes, it ain’t just Trump who’s associated with the creep. Bill Clinton is, or was, his buddy as well.

  257. 257
    snoey says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    No problem – you’re making the important point. Just my observation that when they try and make shit up themselves it just doesn’t quite ring true and that’s why they need the fish to provide the top quality bait.

  258. 258
    Mnemosyne says:

    @dogwood:

    We were talking about that yesterday. Epstein seems to have been very crafty and cultivated public relationships with people who would be embarrassed if he was ever caught and prosecuted. Bill Clinton seems to have been one of those people — they were in the same NYC social circles, but Bill didn’t get invited to the parties with the underage girls.

    Trump did. That’s what at least one of the lawsuits against him was about.

    It’s the difference between knowing someone socially and accepting favors from them, and actually participating in their crimes. I still have never seen anything claiming that Bill actually participated, but there is evidence that Trump did.

    To use the Weinstein analogy, it’s the difference between Hillary taking campaign contributions from him and Weinstein’s secretaries luring women to hotel rooms for him. You can argue that someone “should” have known the other person was a bad guy, but that doesn’t make them an actual participant in the crimes.

  259. 259
    TriassicSands says:

    @Tazj:

    He didn’t shake hands with Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter.

    Really, how could he shake hands with either Clinton? ? He calls HRC “Crooked Hillary” and leads “lock her up chants.” Once he’d skipped Bill and Hillary, Carter wouldn”t be possible.

    Carter is a very decent man but I’ll bet he was grateful not to have to shake Trump’s dainty little hand.

  260. 260
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Wild Cat: My super conservative colleagues really freaked out when W refused to stop execution of some woman when he was TX gov. She suppsedly had repented and become a christian. IIRC he mocked he, saying something like ‘Oh, no, please save me’ in a quavering, falsetto voice.

    True believers, they nevertheless strongly supported him as president and repeated any story about how great a christian he was.

  261. 261
    Princess says:

    @Mnemosyne: Prince Charles has been in a relationship with the same woman since the 1970s. Granted, she wasn’t the women he originally married, but you can’t say he doesn’t have some kind of relationship tenacity.

    On the other hand, I completely agree with you on GWB and black woman. I remember seeing a photo of him eying Condi Rice years ago while he was still president and it was very, very clear.

  262. 262
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Mnemosyne: Wasn’t Prince Andrew mentioned in the recent story on Epstein?

  263. 263
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    This is psy-ops. Not 4Chan having a giggle. This is the real thing, created by professionals.

    I beg to differ; this is Trump and company, they are so pathetically cheep and lazy they go for their cunning plans at 4/Chan, the bargain basement of the Intertubs and are feeding some stupid joke only a total idiot would take seriously to their ultra gullible followers.

  264. 264
    laura says:

    @Ohio Mom: I think what forever flotus may see in Bush the younger is a decent father. The Bush twins left a lovely letter to Malia and Sasha, welcoming them to the White House and how best to live in that particular bubble. I could be wrong, but that’s my best guess.

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