LTG Flynn Met With the Special Counsel’s Investigators 19 Times!!!!

Special Counsel Mueller has submitted his sentencing memo to the court regarding LTG Flynn. The two top take aways are that LTG Flynn met with the Special Counsel’s investigators 19 times and that, as a result of his full cooperation with the Special Counsel’s investigation, Special Counsel Mueller is recommending no prison time for the crime that LTG Flynn plead to. Basically Flynn sang like a bird and told the Special Counsel everything!!!!!!

Flynn was facing up to five years in prison and up to a $250,000 fine.

Here’s the link to the memo.

Buzzfeed has the details!

WASHINGTON — Special counsel Robert Mueller is okay with a sentence that doesn’t include any jail time for Michael Flynn — the former Trump national security adviser who pleaded guilty to lying to FBI agents in the Russia probe — according to a new court filing Tuesday night.

Flynn is scheduled for sentencing on Dec. 18, more than a year after he first appeared before a federal judge in Washington, DC, to enter his guilty plea. His deal with the government required him to cooperate with Mueller’s office, and in Tuesday’s filing, prosecutors said Flynn’s offense was “serious,” but that he deserved credit for accepting responsibility and “substantially assisting the government.”

Given the defendant’s substantial assistance and other considerations set
forth below, a sentence at the low end of the guideline range — including a sentence that does not impose a term of incarceration — is appropriate and warranted,” prosecutors wrote.

Much more at the link.

The supplementary filing had a lot of redactions:

Expect the presidential frenzy, as well as the frenzy of those around him, to increase exponentially.

It is important to remember that anyone who tells you definitively what the Special Counsel and his investigators are doing does not know what the Special Counsel and his investigators are doing. The only people who know what the Special Counsel and his investigators are doing are the Special Counsel and his investigators and they do not comment publicly. They only speak through indictments, other court filings, and in court.

Don’t lie to the FBI! It’s rude and upsets the special agents’ feelings!

Open thread.

161 replies
  1. 1

    I am just so curious about Investigation A that was completely redacted.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    Flynn sang like a canary😏😏😅😅

  3. 3
    Gravenstone says:

    If we thought Trump was being a dick about Cohen and his new plea, I can’t wait to see the histrionics that this revelation provokes.

  4. 4
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @David Anderson: This thing is far, far from over. All that speculation last night and today that Mueller was wrapping things up was garbage. As I’ve written repeatedly no one, other than Mueller knows anything and Mueller doesn’t talk.

  5. 5
    West of the Rockies says:

    Adam, is this a seismic event, a BFD, or more noise than substance. It seems huge (yooge!), but I want to make sure.

  6. 6
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gravenstone: And in Cohen’s case that was the defense’s memo, not the government’s.

  7. 7
    lollipopguild says:

    The general will probably get to keep his pension which is why he sang like a canary.

  8. 8
    zhena gogolia says:

    Well thank God it happened before I have to go to bed.

  9. 9
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @West of the Rockies: I think it is a big deal, as in we now know that Flynn’s cooperating with the Special Counsel was both very significant, and so significant that the Special Counsel is recommending no prison time. I think it is pointing us to the coming of something seismic, but, to mark my beliefs to market, I don’t know any more than anyone else. The only people who know what the Special Counsel and his investigators are doing are the Special Counsel and his investigators and they do not comment publicly. They only speak through indictments, other court filings, and in court. (I’ve just added this to the post up above)

  10. 10
    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues says:

    I think it is appropriate to declaim, at this time, “AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!”

  11. 11
    GregB says:

    Trump before today: Gen. Flynnis a good man getting raked over the coals by dishonest Mueller!

    Trump today: Everyone knew Flynn was a dishonest rat that I never liked. Everyone knows he’s a liar and a dirtbag.

  12. 12
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lollipopguild: That was and still is up to the DOD, not the Special Prosecutor or the Federal court.

  13. 13
    Adam L Silverman says:


    And I barely know him. I think he might have brought me a diet coke once…

  14. 14
    SFAW says:

    This appears to be shaping up to be the best Infrastructure Week in awhile. And, FSM-willing, it may not be close to the best, going forward.

  15. 15
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    and so significant that the Special Counsel is recommending no prison time. I think it is pointing us to the coming of something seismic,

    Or maybe Mueller is a Republican hack who’s going to let everyone off scot-free ala Iran-Contra! For the good of the country, of course /s

  16. 16
    rikyrah says:


    Matthew Miller (@matthewamiller) Tweeted:
    One byproduct of this filing, intentional or not, is the information is now in the custody of a judge, not just housed in the executive branch. Even if Mueller is fired, it doesn’t disappear — can all be unsealed and made public.

  17. 17
    clay says:

    Was there any mention of Flynn’s douchbag son?

  18. 18
    pk says:

    I wanted the “lock her up” bum to go to prison. I hope he pays some price for his treasonous actions. It would be ridiculous if he gets to live his life with no consequences.

  19. 19
    MazeDancer says:

    Quick off topic alert: John Barrow lost Georgia runoff for Secretary of State tonight. Apparently, badly. GOP voter oppression will continue in Georgia.

    On topic: Think commentary that Mueller saying why gamble for pardon when you can get zero jail time with me is accurate.

  20. 20
    Chyron HR says:

    “What a relief, the whole memo is blank!” – President Very Stable Genius

  21. 21
    Timurid says:

    Will Friday’s Manafort memo also be mostly zebra stripes?

  22. 22
    Adam L Silverman says:

  23. 23
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t think the non-jail recommendation is very significant. General Flynn’s exposure under the sentencing guidelines was 0 to 6 months without cooperation.

  24. 24
    rikyrah says:

    He fell on the sword because his son wouldn’t be charged.

  25. 25
    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues says:

    Adam, do you think it is likely that Flynn knew of the Russian ratfucking in the election? He is obviously incredibly corrupt, but did the fact that he was an intelligence officer give the Trumps (Sr., Jr., Kushner, Manafort) any pause before boasting about their good luck in getting “the Russian crown prosecutor’s (sic) and the Russian government’s support”?

  26. 26
    Mary G says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I believe you have used more exclamation points in this post than all your others combined. It is a BFD. That makes me happy.

    As much as I would like the general to pay a larger price, if only for that spittle-flecked speech at the Republican convention where he joined in or started the “LOCK HER UP” chant, I am glad that he did the right thing for the country and his family, even if his idiot son probably doesn’t think so.

  27. 27
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Timurid: I don’t know.

  28. 28
    LAO says:

    @Timurid: probably ☹️

  29. 29
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Chyron HR:
    Don’t forget he has a very good brain!

  30. 30
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: You are the expert. I was hoping you’d turn up, but didn’t want to disturb you given the week I expect you’re having.

  31. 31
    Gravenstone says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That deserves a McMahon: “Hey-o!”

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @EveryDayIHaveTheBlues: I don’t know.

  33. 33
    TS (the original) says:

    @lollipopguild: I find it bewildering that a US General would be working with the Russians – telling them the government was on their side. Why on earth did he do this in the first place? Money?


    Michael Thomas Flynn is a retired United States Army Lieutenant General who served in the U.S. Army for 33 years, from 1981 until 2014

  34. 34
    Schlemazel says:

    I’m deeply conflicted. If he really was an agent of a foreign power who subverted our government he needs to go away forever, he needs to lose his pension, he needs to be incarcerated in a place like Gitmo so that he never sets eyes on the US again. “Opps, my bad here let me rat out the others” is not good enough, fuck him

  35. 35
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gravenstone: Gesundheit!

  36. 36
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TS (the original): MICE.

  37. 37
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    This is like throwing a firecracker into a nest of rats and seeing where they scuttle.

    Only now the rats know that if they co-operate they may not end up on the end of a hobo shishkabob.

    King Rat should be worried and watching to see who tries to make a run for it.

  38. 38

    @LAO: It does send a message to others that the Special Counsel will play ball, as does his filing about Manafort as to what happens if you don’t.

  39. 39
    The Dangerman says:

    Flynn: “LOCK HER UP”

    Mueller: : “DON’T LOCK HIM UP”

  40. 40
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: appreciate that, thanks. Trial date moved, I’ll hang out here tonight.

  41. 41
    EveryDayIHaveTheBlues says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thank you.
    @TS (the original): This is what I was thinking too. Surely the Trumps were not THAT dumb…. oh, wait.

  42. 42
    Marcopolo says:

    Just my 2 cents: this is a big deal in that it shows Flynn cooperated wholeheartedly right out of the gate (though exactly on what is redacted). That means every succeeding witness’ testimony (which was everyone else because Flynn was first out) could be graded true or false based on Flynn’s info. While Mueller obviously has vast resources in determining what actually happened starting w/ Flynn has to be a big help. And that is both in determining the veracity of later witnesses but also in just getting them to also to cooperate in the first place. Flynn was cooperating so perhaps they should as well.

  43. 43
    Jay says:

    Keep in mind, the sentence recommended by the Prosecution is a recommendation. The Judge may feel differently.

  44. 44
    Platonailedit says:

    Anticlimax. Lock him up.

  45. 45
    LAO says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: call me cynical. It was a standard cooperation sentencing memorandum. Which, I find very reassuring. But if I read another tweet extolling Flynn’s cooperation as substantial, I’m going to lose my shit. Substantial cooperation is a term of art, doesn’t mean anything special.

  46. 46

  47. 47
    sukabi says:

    @lollipopguild: I guess I’m a bit of a dick, I’d like the military to go after him and strip his pension at the minimum. There needs to be actual consequences for the illegal bullshit (treason) he pulled.

  48. 48
  49. 49
    sukabi says:

    @Schlemazel: I’ll sit by you.

  50. 50
    Jackie says:

    Hannity is spittling trying to pretend this isn’t a big deal. Jim Jordan is saying the Repubs have 28 days to haul Rosenstein before Congress and make him explain wearing a wire… Is Trump watching Fox or CNN? 😂 Now, back to Rachel 😁

  51. 51
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    LOL. I wish I could embed tweets and images. I promise I’d use it for good and not evil.

  52. 52
    Timurid says:


    So he probably has many months to go before the big showdown…

    One crazy theory* I had about the Mueller investigation was that his target date is 1/20/21, based on the following propositions:

    1. Nothing can hurt Trump before that date, no matter what the investigation uncovers. His firewall in the Senate is unbreakable. The only people who can harm him are the voters.
    2. The Mueller investigation, as long as it continues, is the one island of integrity and sanity in the Justice Department. That island vanishes once a final report is issued, so they should use the remainder of Trump’s term to learn as much as possible about what went wrong and who is to blame. After Trump is voted out, they can use that information to ensure that Trump, his co-conspirators and his enablers are held accountable.
    3. But what if Trump wins in 2020? Then we’re all doomed, no matter what Mueller does. So he might as well plan for the only possible positive outcome…

    *I am nowhere near a legal expert.

  53. 53
    JR says:

    @LAO: Up to five years, I thought?

  54. 54
    Schlemazel says:

    I think we have something in common!

  55. 55

    @sukabi: Then you’d have to try him for treason, that wasn’t what he plead to.

    (I’m becoming as cynical as LAO and I’m not even an attorney.)

  56. 56
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TS (the original): @Schlemazel: @EveryDayIHaveTheBlues: He may have been an unwitting asset. That’s not a good thing, but its not the same as actively betraying his oath.

    I actually have a theory about this in regard to LTG Flynn and the Russians, but since I can’t prove it, I’ve shared it with a few select people so that if my analysis proves to be true, I can reliably write about it publicly and cite the fact that I developed this theory back in early 2017.

  57. 57
    Marcopolo says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Thanks for sharing. Always appreciate reminders that having a broad liberal arts education can add to ones ability to find humor in situations/circumstances.

  58. 58
    Jeffro says:


    Coming for you, Trumpov…they are coming for you…

  59. 59
    japa21 says:

    I presume this does not prevent them from pressing other charges against Flynn should the need arise. That may well have been a threat that also motivated Flynn to cooperate.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

  61. 61
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:


    3. But what if Trump wins in 2020? Then we’re all doomed, no matter what Mueller does. So he might as well plan for the only possible positive outcome…

    It’s nearly unheard of for a president in modern history to not get a second term, so we might be doomed.

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

  63. 63
    LAO says:

    @JR: no. Five years is the maximum sentence under the statute (18 USC 1001). 0-6 months is the sentencing guideline range under the US Sentencing Guidelines. Most defendants receive guideline sentences.

  64. 64
    Stuart Frasier says:

    The memo says “a sentence at the low end of the guideline range – including a sentence that does not impose a term of incarceration – is appropriate and warranted”. By my reading, that would include a shorter term. I really hope the judge imposes some incarceration.

  65. 65
    PJ says:

    @Timurid: Investigations are also ongoing in NY and DC (and maybe VA and MD?) Those will continue regardless of what happens with the Mueller investigation.

    I see where you are coming from, but 1) Does Mueller really need 2 more years to investigate the collusion and money-laundering? (The obstruction of justice, of course, will go on until Trump leaves office.) 2) From a political perspective, it would be better to have all the information in front of the voters, whether through sentencing documents, trials or investigation in the House, before the 2020 elections, which effectively means before June 2020. That’s 19 months from now, plenty of time to get everyone he needs to sing. As I have learned from Adam and others here, much of their knowledge comes from classified intelligence which they’ve had for a while – what they are trying to get is evidence they can put in front of the public for trials or impeachment.

  66. 66
    LAO says:

    @Timurid: I don’t believe Mueller has a timetable.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jackie: They don’t have 28 days. As soon as they can pass a CR, they’re going home for the holidays and will come back before January only if they don’t push the CR into 2019. If you had 144 Gym Jordans, you’d have gross stupidity.

  68. 68

    Mueller: “We’re gonna need a bigger Sharpie.”

  69. 69

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: HW Bush and Jimmy Carter would like a word with you.

    ETA: LBJ might also qualify, he was only elected to one term, serving a year and change of JFK’s term prior the his election.

    ETA: And then there’s Ford who was never elected President or Vice President.

  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Sure you would Mr. DeviantArt.

  71. 71
    Ruckus says:

    I’d bet that he did a lot more than just rat out some people. Mueller does not seem one to curry favors or look the other way. And as LAO up thread stated he was only looking at 0-6 months in the first place. Helping to fill holes, give direct testimony, admit to the things he was indicted for, to corporate fully, that is not a bad outcome.
    OTOH I think the entire lot need to do time, and lots of it, but that’s why we have laws and sentencing guidelines in the first place, to at least attempt to keep politics out of penalties.

  72. 72
    LAO says:

    @Stuart Frasier: unlikely because it’s unlikely that a non-cooperating defendant in his sentencing range would receive any jail time.

  73. 73
    PJ says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Only four of the last eight before Trump were elected twice, which comes down to three if you discount Bush’s first term, which, but for the grace of the Supreme Court, he would have lost. So, you’re absolutely right, Trump has a lock on 2020.

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:


  75. 75
    TS (the original) says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think I see it as being very anti Obama & wanting to fall over himself to help trump, during & after the campaign. I can’t think of any other reason that would send a long term military office down such a path.

  76. 76
    Jeffro says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That Flynn thinks he’s pretty smart and knew – almost – what he was getting into by working with the Russians and accepting their aid since the whole GOP was already on the hook for all kinds of laundered Russian money? That they’d both use Trumpov to a) keep Hillary from office but also b) work jointly to divvy up the Middle East and run riot on terrorists…sort of a Pax Russo-Americana?

    I think the Russians co-opted him just by stroking his hurt feelings (and lining his pockets somewhat, but not outlandishly) and promising he’d get back to being ‘in the room where it happens’ in the War on Terra.

  77. 77
    Mnemosyne says:

    The Russian bots and Qmorons are insisting that this is just more proof of the massive corruption inside the FBI as embodied in Peter Strzok (yes, I’m probably spelling his name wrong). Given the massive amounts of projection the right wing engages in, this makes me hopeful that the NYC FBI field office’s ties to Russia are being probed by Mueller as part or this investigation.

    I’m pretty sure that LAO would be thrilled if that turns out to be the case.

  78. 78
    PPCLI says:

    [Sorry if this has been already discussed in earlier comments.] Lotsa Laffs to be had in the comments to Rudy Giuliani’s latest tweet. Briefly, apparently someone pointed out to him that he had a link to the statement “Donald Trump is a traitor to his country” in an earlier twitter message. Instead of figuring out what had happened, he fired off a deranged rant about Twitter and anti-Trumpers, and Time Magazine, and then an all-caps FAIRNESS PLEASE.

    Someone points out in the comments that no, he was not hacked, he was just a complete dumbass. The President’s Cybersecurity Advisor (chortle) failed to put a space between “G20.” and “in”, which turned into a link. Because .in is the India country code, which apparently Mr. President Dumbass’s Dumbass Cybersecurity Advisor didn’t know. So some clever scalliwag went and purchased the domain which was there for the taking, and posted the message.

    The comments on Mr PDDCA’s post are very entertaining.

  79. 79
    Mandalay says:

    Pence as well?

    Dare one hope?

    It’s irresponsible not to speculate…

  80. 80
    frosty says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Just in my lifetime, Johnson, Ford, Carter, Bush one term
    Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, two terms.

    It’s not unheard of.

    ETA, and yes, I left Kennedy out. He didn’t have the opportunity to run again.

  81. 81
  82. 82
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TS (the original): @Jeffro: My theory is basically built around what we know about Flynn’s gigantic ego, his huge sense of grievance while running DIA and after he retired, and what I know about how to recruit and run a source.

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @PPCLI: That boy ain’t right.

  84. 84
    Beth says:

    Am I a bad person for feeling sad that Mr Lock-Her-Up isn’t gonna be locked up?

  85. 85
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’m not sure our landlord’s nerves could take that kind of spicy!

  86. 86
    Schlemazel says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I hope that iyou are right because I would love to hear how the hell he could be unwitting in this

  87. 87
    Mandalay says:

    @Mandalay: “Mike Pence is in such deep shit tonight”

    Here’s a key unredacted sentence in Robert Mueller’s memo: “[Flynn] assisted the [Special Counsel’s Office] investigation on a range of issues, including interactions between individuals in the Presidential Transition Team and Russia.” As a reminder, the head of the Trump transition team was a guy named Mike Pence. This brings us back to a story that we brought you nearly a year ago.

    Back in December of 2017, we all learned that Robert Mueller had obtained all of the emails from every member of the Trump transition team. It was long ago established that when Michael Flynn was illegally conspiring with the Russian Ambassador to sabotage President Obama’s sanctions, he was keeping the transition team in the loop in real time. Yet Mike Pence, the official head of the transition team, went on to publicly claim in January that he had no knowledge of any Flynn contacts with Russia.

    So either the entire transition team conspired to keep this information from Pence, or Pence was lying when he went on television and claimed that Michael Flynn hadn’t had any contact with the Russians. Does anyone realistically believe that the transition team unanimously decided to keep this information from Pence for some reason? Our guess is these emails incriminate Pence, and Flynn helped give Pence up. Mike Pence is in such deep shit tonight. There’s no other way to put it.

  88. 88
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I’m almost tempted to change my nym to that.

  89. 89
    Quinerly says:

    So I guess Whitaker has seen what was redacted. How long before he tells Trump?

  90. 90
    Stuart Frasier says:

    Didn’t Papadapoulos have the same 0-6 months sentencing guideline range? He got 14 days.

  91. 91
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    I stand corrected.

  92. 92
    Jackie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I know. Just giving a tiny look into the pure panic being spouted on Hannity. They’re trying to spin no jail time = Mueller’s got nothing. Witch Hunt!

  93. 93
    TS (the original) says:

    @Adam L Silverman: thanks – I don’t know enough about his history – I wait to see what happens.

  94. 94
    scott (the other one) says:

    @sukabi: Exactly my thoughts as well. I’m fine with his staying out of prison–I trust Mueller on that–but I want him to absolutely face military justice on all this.

  95. 95
    Marcopolo says:

    So this seems like as good a thread as any to share this thought: Is it possible that Trump’s appointment of Whitaker, who is apparently not a great lawyer & who has multiple closet skeletons, to AAG means he will actually get less compliance from the DOJ in forwarding his (Trump’s) policy & personal goals. I have to believe that if the reporting is correct & Rosenstein is still overseeing the SC investigation that this means some career DOJ folks basically sat Whitaker down & told him to keep his hands off the SC or they would make his life hell. And since Whitaker does seem to be a bit of a hack—at least compared to long-time DOJ folks—I also would find it believable his inside bureaucratic jui jitsu skills aren’t the best. I mean Sessions had recused himself from the SC investigation but he had Trump’s back on just about everything else.

    Anyways that is what I’d like to believe—that Trump once again might have screwed himself over by trying to protect himself by making a bad decision in a fit of pique.

  96. 96
    frosty says:

    @Quinerly: Oh, goody. Because if he tells Trump, Mr. Blabbermouth will tell all the rest of us, too.

  97. 97
    Amir Khalid says:

    Don’t lie to the FBI! It’s rude and upsets the special agents’ feelings!

    Adam, you’re forgetting something: in Trump’s circle, only rudeness and inconsideration by outsiders to you exists; rudeness and inconsideration by you towards outsiders never happens, because you are one of The Best People.

  98. 98
    Jeffro says:

    @Mandalay: Thanks for the link and great point.

  99. 99
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Marcopolo: My understanding from those with sources within DOJ is that Whitaker’s appointment was not met with any actual enthusiasm by any of the career people and that there is a lot of internal pushback.

  100. 100
    Jeffro says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So you’re down with that point b) and also the “lining pockets but not outlandishly”?

    It’s what I would do if I were the Russkies, is all I’m sayin’…

  101. 101
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’ve had a crazy theory for a while that the reason Aaron Swartz killed himself was that the feds told him that he had been unwittingly giving Russia access to and information about US networks, and he refused to believe them until they showed him proof. Either he went to prison and kept his mouth shut, or he cooperated and the Russians would have him killed. He chose the third way.

    This is just a crazy theory, though. I don’t really have any evidence to support it. It just makes more sense to me, especially why prosecutors would pursue such a harsh sentence for relatively minor actions. They were pressuring him to cooperate, and he refused.

  102. 102
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    Just how hard is it to pass a brick out your pooper? Anyone within earshot of the White House knows.

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jeffro: No. I’m sorry to be a tease, but because I can’t prove my theory, even though it’s plausible and I’ve discussed it with several colleagues who have also had to cultivate and run sources who think it is a distinct possibility, I’m not going any further than I have.

  104. 104
    scott (the other one) says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Oh, for fuck’s sake.

    Are you unaware of the biggest fucking midterm wave ever? It was a while back. (Checks notes.) One month ago.

    Trump lost the popular vote in 2016. He’s significantly less popular now than he was then. He only won the electoral college thanks to Russian ratfucking, Comey’s betrayal, a mainstream media’s two-decade-long hatred of Trump’s opponent and voter suppression. In other words, it was a perfect storm.

    It ain’t happenin’ again.

    Yeah, yeah, yeah–complacency kills. I get it. It does. But so does an overabundance of Eeyoreism.

  105. 105
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t know enough about that whole mess to comment. So I’m not going to.

  106. 106
    LAO says:

    @Stuart Frasier: you are correct. But IMO, his “am an innocent man, unfairly targeted by a corrupt political prosecutor” wasn’t appreciated by a federal judge.

  107. 107
    Ruckus says:

    I’d bet that if Mueller had found any Russian money crossing the Flynn palm there would have been more charges and more possible time. And I also bet he looked hard to find anything out of line. It’s possible that Flynn is just a RWNJ and actually likes the shitgibbon as a person. Or maybe did like him. It’s also possible that he’s a massive misogynist and really his entire thing was because of HRC running. It seems to me that his entire answer to terrorists was to kill everyone who looked like one to him. And HRC was SoS while he was still in the military and running the Defense Intelligence Agency. He made it very clear that he was unhappy with President Obama and with HRC. Read his Wiki page It won’t make you like him any more.

  108. 108
    Mnemosyne says:


    Of course Whitaker is spilling everything to Trump. That’s part of the point — to show Trump just a tiny corner of what Mueller’s team has and just how much trouble he’s in.

  109. 109
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I would think that the rank and file of a lot of agencies and departments would be trying to internally push back agianst the awful Trump appointees. That’s good news to hear.

  110. 110
    Adam L Silverman says:


  111. 111
  112. 112
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @scott (the other one):
    Wow. I never thought I’d be accused of eeyoreism. You’re right of course. The prospect of another Trump term still scares the shit out of me.

  113. 113
    different-church-lady says:

    Oooh, it’s like fractal sets made out of investigations!

  114. 114
    Jeffro says:

    @Ruckus: I thought Flynn got paid (well) for a few speeches in Russia? That would be acceptable to him without being outlandish or having ‘sold out’. It’s also not straight-up bribe/treason money. Just, you know, how things get done in the world. Your buddies pay you to give a speech, you pocket a little cheddar on the side…you agree to manipulate your idiot POTUS into going full-bore on terrorists, Iran, whatever. Whatever it takes to kill a lot of people in the Middle East and prove Obama wrong.

    I have no doubt Flynn’s pretty right-leaning but mostly in the neocon wipe-’em-all-out sense that you’re describing (never heard much about culture war views or economics views). And yeah, misogynist too – I covered that above.

    So basically what I said upstairs and what you’re saying seem about 98% in agreement. I’m so very, very glad that he was dumb enough to get caught and get caught early betraying his country. He’s clearly been a godsend to Mueller.

  115. 115
    scott (the other one) says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷: Me too. And if 2016 showed us anything, it’s that…well, virtually anything can happen. But it’s far, far, far less likely in 2020 and even whispering about it as a certainty will do nothing but help bring it about.

  116. 116
    JaySinWA says:

    @Adam L Silverman: In your heart you know he’s right … far right.

  117. 117
    Jeffro says:

    @Ruckus: @Adam L Silverman: @Jeffro: I see Adam was faster on the draw than me but you get the point…they DID pay him. Just not enough to make him realize he was being sucked in.

  118. 118
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Like I said, it’s just a crazy theory I have, but it seems more plausible now that we know Wikileaks is basically a Russian propaganda front and Snowden is living his best life in Moscow.

  119. 119
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @LAO: one or both of us hasn’t been around lately. How’s it hanging?

    Steve in the 423 (is that even a real area code?!)

  120. 120
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: I’m not trying to pooh pooh your theory, I just don’t know enough about what happened to comment.

  121. 121
    Ruckus says:

    I knew he was dumb.
    I knew he was pretty dumb.
    I knew he was pretty fucking dumb.
    It was obvious that he didn’t have the sense that god gave a flat rock.
    But to be a cybersecurity “expert” and make a mistake that dumb and then blame everyone/anyone else, that’s massively fucking dumb. And I have no idea what’s dumber than a flat rock. ¿shitgibbon?

  122. 122
    PJ says:

    @Jeffro: But what about that plot to kidnap Gulen Flynn was involved in? Was that just “idle chatter” or was he actually up to his ears in a conspiracy to kidnap someone?

  123. 123
    Stuart Frasier says:

    That seems reasonable. Still, a boy can hope.

  124. 124
    Ruckus says:

    Not in the least.

  125. 125
    Platonailedit says:

    It's not about Mueller, the man. It's about not trusting an already corrupt system made worse by a mobbed-up, sociopath POTUS, a compromised GOP, stacked courts, etc. There is no "deux ex Mueller"; there's a giant mess. Flynn embodies the lack of consequences for rich criminals.— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) December 5, 2018

    Yup. And you may notice they continue committing crimes while their old crimes are investigated. And people cheer under the impression that it makes them easier to catch — but getting caught doesn't matter when you don't get punished. And so the cycle continues…— Sarah Kendzior (@sarahkendzior) December 5, 2018

    I am with her.

  126. 126
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: ok fine Adam do you need me to get confirmation for you?

    Sheesh. I have to do everything around here!

  127. 127
    burnspbesq says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷:

    Or maybe Mueller is a Republican hack who’s going to let everyone off scot-free ala Iran-Contra! For the good of the country, of course /s

    Or maybe you should go home and sleep it off.

  128. 128
    LAO says:

    @Steve in the ATL: oh you know, the usual, prepping for a trial that got put over, while simultaneously trying to figure out what I should do when I finally get out of the law business. You?

  129. 129
    tobie says:

    @Mandalay: I do hope that Pence will get caught up in Mueller’s probe. One thing I don’t get though is Pence’s role in Flynn being compromised. It seems like there are two scenarios. Sally Yates presented one of them: Flynn was compromised because the Russians knew he lied to Pence about his contact with the ambassador. The other scenario would be (and no one’s broached it on TV) that both Flynn and Pence are compromised because both lied to the FBI and the American public about Flynn’s contacts with the Russians. Can anyone help me out here?

  130. 130
    Shana says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Sent that one on to my Art Historian daughter. She’s the least actively political of the family but a good Dem so I think she’ll appreciate it.

  131. 131
    LAO says:

    @Stuart Frasier: I do not want to step on any one’s hopes and dreams. I wish the lot of them would face real justice for the damage they’ve done to this country. I just have a particular set of skills…

  132. 132
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Platonailedit: it’s “deus we machina”. God, not two.

    Get it together, Sarah!

  133. 133
    debbie says:

    Can Nunes blab the redacted bits?

  134. 134
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @LAO: typical day of bargaining. Met with Teamsters for half an hour, then they needed to “caucus”, then two hours later said let’s just have lunch! then after lunch I went through my agenda then they canceled bargaining until February. The glamorous life of a labor lawyer! Stuck in Chattanooga—a two hour drive from my house!—and it’s too cold to play golf. FML.

    ETA: had Piccata Grouper for dinner, and may or may not have exceeded Dev Null’s two glasses of wine tonight.

  135. 135
    Another Scott says:

    @LAO: Thank you.

    I’m not ready to throw roses at him yet, either.

    He was a General officer of the United States. He had substantial special responsibilities and broke his oath. He deserves substantial punishments for them (if convicted) and cooperation with Mueller’s investigation doesn’t change that.

    Mueller isn’t omnipotent. He has a special responsibility to get it right, and he apparently is doing his job well so far. But he’s not going to save the United States by himself. We have to see how his investigation plays out and continue to do all we can on our own – electing decent people, donating to organizations that fight Donnie and his minions in court, advocating for a better government, etc.

    Being Manic Progressives is a recipe for disappointment…


  136. 136
    Shana says:

    @Mandalay: President Pelosi. Just sayin’

  137. 137
    Mandalay says:

    “President Pelosi congratulated her successor as the new Speaker of the House, Stacey Abrams…”.

    Never say never.

  138. 138
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Steve in the ATL: ex, not we. FU, Tim Cook!

  139. 139
    Jeffro says:

    @PJ: Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if that was something he was heavily engaged in – all part of the War on Terra, right? And therefore justified (in his mind)

  140. 140
    Mandalay says:

    @Shana: Heh – see #137. I truly didn’t see your post first. Great minds…

  141. 141
    burnspbesq says:


    Pence as well?

    Dare! Dare!

    In all seriousness, the references in the addendum to the investigation of communications between the Trump transition team and Russia are bad news for Pence.

  142. 142
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Adam, I was actually agreeing with Jeffro that while he was paid and yes he did lie about it, what I’d bet is that he didn’t get paid behind the scenes and/or under the table.
    Sure the speech money is effectively a bribe, but to be honest it does seem like he didn’t need a bribe, he would have done everything we know and think he did without any bribes. He’s a believer in might makes right, that we should wipe everyone we don’t like off the face of the earth, and the reasons we don’t like them are irrelevant. IOW he is an honest to goodness, RWNJ.
    A question I’ve had since seeing that picture when it came out – what the fuck is Jill Stein doing there? A paid vote stealer? Or a true communist just looking at the old country?

  143. 143
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Another Scott: “manic progressives” makes me think of the lost semi-classic “frantic romantic” by the Scientists. Where is Omnes when I need him?

  144. 144
    Steve in the ATL says:


    what the fuck is Jill Stein doing there?



  145. 145
    tobie says:


    what the fuck is Jill Stein doing there?

    Yes, inquiring minds want to know. She’s sitting next to Putin’s close advisor Peskov no less.

  146. 146
    Jeffro says:

    @Ruckus: Probably fair to say that she was invited to come and air her views and oh hey also enjoy a nice stay in Moscow and maybe even a check for “consulting” and perhaps she really SHOULD make an effort to run in 2016 since that horrible HRC won’t represent anything left of Attila the Hun so why not get out there and promote your views (and I’ll see if I can send a few people or some funds to help, Jill). I have little doubt that her superficial socialist leanings were stroked, and that Hillary was painted as the obstacle to getting any of that agenda actually accomplished.

    She would have been the easy one to steer.

  147. 147
    J R in WV says:

    @Goku ():

    It’s nearly unheard of for a president in modern history to not get a second term, so we might be doomed.

    This is just so wrong. G H W Bush was one term, G Ford was one term, LBJ was one term, Jimmy Carter was one term… So far from unheard of.

    Plus Trump is corrupt and despicable, unlike all those other one term presidents, as well as a loser of both his own election 2 years ago AND a killer of many Republican candidates for congress just the other century. Oh, wait, it was just a month ago!

  148. 148
    burnspbesq says:


    Flynn’s FARA violations, which went uncharged, involved taking $530k from Turkey for three months of shilling to try and get Gulen deported.

  149. 149
    Ruckus says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Always take the easy, obvious answer…….
    She was supposed be be grifting on the left side of the ledger. She’s helping herself to a heaping bullshit bag full of right wing grift. I bet it won’t make a shit bit of difference to her deranged supporters.

  150. 150
    Ruckus says:

    My understanding is she gave them the keys to the ship.

  151. 151
    zhena gogolia says:


    Okay, now I’m thinking Kendzior is on Putin’s payroll.

  152. 152
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    Did you miss the /s? I wasn’t being serious.

  153. 153
    Kent says:

    This only ends one of two ways.

    1. Trump is brought down by the Mueller investigation and either resigns in disgrace (most likely) or is impeached and convicted (extremely unlikely unless they have him on film committing obvious treason). We roll into 2020 in the first year of the Pence Administration whom the press is fluffing up as a finally the grownup in charge and a new leaf for the GOP. Then if not Pence, someone untainted by Trump such as Kasich (or another governor) comes out of the primaries as the GOP candidate. Trump may not be be primaried but Pence most certainly would as he is knee deep in whatever Trump is involved with.

    2. Trump is wounded by the constant drip drip of Mueller and House investigations and his popularity plummits to post-Katrina levels but he hangs on to power and squelches any primary opposition by spending all his time doing unhinged red-meat demagogery to his red state base at rally after rally. Meanwhile cabinet members and staff start jumping ship in advance of House investigations into their corruption. Cue up the downfall memes.

    As a Dem I think I’d rather our 2020 candidate run against a wounded Trump rather than a fresh faced GOP daddy. More importantly, I’d rather have all our House and Senate candidates run with Trump as the standard bearer of the party and with all the GOP candidates connected to him at the hip like 2018. Rather than have all of them free to re-define a “New GOP” deserving of a second chance.

    Of course the 3rd option is that Trump serves out his term but chooses not to run again. But I just don’t see his ego allowing that to happen.

    As every Dem should know by now, elections are NEVER easy or a sure thing in this country. But I think taking a second crack against Trump in 2020 provides a better scenario than some popular untainted GOP governor running as the fresh face of the GOP. Besides, NOTHING will motivate the Dem base like having Trump on the ticket a second time around.

  154. 154
    PJ says:

    @Shana: I’ve been saying that since 2017 (even on this here top 10,000 blog). If Trump and Pence are indicted at the same time, it would be beautiful. From your lips to FSM’s roiling pot of sauce.

  155. 155
    C Stars says:

    @Kent: Agree with you 100%. Trump needs to stay around as a constant reminder of how horrific the GOP really is. Impeachment is not our best outcome going into 2020.

  156. 156
    smintheus says:

    Flynn engaged in treason by conspiring with our enemy. Admitting to that when caught doesn’t ameliorate his crime. He definitely should be locked up, even if he did sing like a canary.

  157. 157
    smintheus says:

    @C Stars: So the good of the country comes last, the good of the party takes precedence over everything? Sounds like the GOP philosophy.

  158. 158
    smintheus says:

    @Kent: What makes you think Pence is not forced out? Who brought him into the administration but Manafort? He has been watching the whole treasonous shitshow unfold, and helping the rest to cover it up.

  159. 159
    Joey Maloney says:

    @JaySinWA: But in your guts, you know his nuts…are in Mueller’s pocket.

  160. 160
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I went through my agenda then they canceled bargaining until February.

    Surely your presentation wasn’t that bad….//

  161. 161
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kent: I prefer The Golden Ending.

    Trump and Pence both go down for treason and are killed resisting arrest.

    President Nancy Pelosi sends most of the Republicans in Congress to prison for conspiracy against the United States and McConnell gets a firing squad for high treason.

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