Open Thread: The G20 Tango

(The boss isn’t crazy about performance reviews either, y’know.)

Things looked so much more… normal, as recently as Wednesday:

President Trump will play the role of a dutiful diplomat at a global economic summit this weekend, his schedule jammed with one-on-one meetings with allies including Germany, India, Japan and South Korea as well as the authoritarian leaders of Russia, China and Turkey.

If past is prologue, he does not look forward to the task.

The president generally dislikes group chatfests such as the annual Group of 20 economic meeting that begins Friday. His mood in the weeks leading up to the gathering in Argentina was not helped by Republican losses in the midterms, potential signs of trouble in the U.S. economy and the special counsel’s Russia investigation…

So it was a surprise this week when White House press secretary Sarah Sanders and national security adviser John Bolton detailed Trump’s busy agenda, which includes the first joint meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

“We’re trying to fill every minute of the president’s schedule,” Bolton told reporters Tuesday…

“The pessimists in the delegation say the best we can hope for is there is not another disaster after the G-7 and the NATO summit, so if things don’t get worse it’s already a success,” one European diplomat said.

In the context of the tweets below, narc is short for narcissist:

233 replies
  1. 1
    satby says:

    Here it is! Good morning rikyrah and everyone 🌞!

  2. 2
    p.a. says:

    His handlers will try to drug him. I guess the Secret Service and his doc (s) are in on it?

  3. 3
    RedDirtGirl says:

    Good morning Satby, et al!

  4. 4
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    “We’ve only seen the tweet and reports. We don’t have any official information. If that’s the case, the president will have a couple extra hours in his schedule for MORE useful meetings.”

    FTFY Vlad. You’ll get my bill in the mail.

  5. 5
    Kdaug says:

    Except I’ve seen no indication that he has any foresight whatsoever. “Focused on what’s coming next” seems to assert facts not in evidence.

  6. 6
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: Blech.

  7. 7
  8. 8
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  9. 9
    Butch says:

    Have you soon the photo of Trump with Xi at the meeting? He looks like a whipped puppy.
    I’m assuming that “jammed with meetings” line was written well in advance of the actual summit. Still a pretty credulous take.

  10. 10
  11. 11
    Elizabelle says:

    Good morning jackals. Woke up this morning thinking: what are they raiding now? Yesterday morning was fun. Keep at it, Team Mueller.

    Have no interest whatsoever in anything out of the Tangerine Traitor’s mouth, but, in honor of Argentina, here is a beautiful Astor Piazzola tango for your coffee or tea: Libertango. About 5 minutes.

    LOL. Performed by the Moscow City Orchestra. How is that for symbiosis?

  12. 12
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud: Yo.

  13. 13
    Baud says:


    Marriott hack hits 500 million guests

    Should have stayed at the Motel 6.

  14. 14
  15. 15
    Karen S. says:

    Good morning. What a week this has been! And it’s not over yet. I’ve got the day off. I’m going to stay in and bake cookies. (Side note: For some reason, this site doesn’t save my name and email, even though I tick the little box whenever I post a comment here. It used to save that information, but it hasn’t in a few months now. I’m using Google Chrome.)

  16. 16
    Quinerly says:

    Good morning from Poco and his tribe! Listening to Trump right now on an Echo, so no picture (as an aside, love this Tune In channel where you can get CNN and MSNBC). Trump sounds more awful than usual. Any comments on how he actually looks… anyone watching???

  17. 17
    MazeDancer says:

    Gwen Collins-Greenup needs our help to win her runoff for Louisiana Sec of State.

    Ensure fair elections in Louisiana.

    Last day of PostCard Season. Must be mailed by tomorrow AM.

    Get addresses:

  18. 18
    Baud says:

    @Quinerly: Good morning.

  19. 19
    Quinerly says:

    @Baud: Motel 6 is all Poco knows about. Don’t tell him there are other doggie friendly digs when we travel. He’ll cop an attitude.

  20. 20
    danielx says:

    My, my…..wonder what the day will bring.

    Things looked so much more… normal, as recently as Wednesday:

    I suppose that is true…for certain values of normal. My standards of normality have been in a constant state of flux since January 2017.

  21. 21
    Quinerly says:

    @Baud: Right back at you!

  22. 22
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud: About to brew some coffee. Think I’m heading up to NYC with a buddy for an overnight next week. Gotta look at some holiday Christmas windows and must check out this, cuz I love Roz Chast.

    School of Visual Arts, Manhattan. Free retrospective exhibit of Roz Chast’s work. At SVA through Sunday, December 15. She’s been hooking rugs and painting eggs these days; not just New Yorker cartoons.

  23. 23
    Baud says:


    Before each meeting, one member of the literary collective sends an email to the club secretary offering a few thoughts on the assigned text. This month, it’s your turn to compose the brief review.

    A new study suggests that the words you use may depend on whether the club secretary’s name is Emily (“a stereotypically White name,” as the study says) or Lakisha (“a stereotypically Black name”). If you’re a white liberal writing to Emily, you might use words like “melancholy” or “euphoric” to describe the mood of the book, whereas you might trade these terms out for the simpler “sad” or “happy” if you’re corresponding with Lakisha.

    But if you’re a white conservative, your diction won’t depend on the presumed race of your interlocutor.


    The findings could provide a new arrow in the quiver of those who decry identity politics practiced by liberals, and yet the paper hardly applauds conservatives for their approach, reasoning that they are simply “less motivated to affiliate with racial minorities.” In other words, the paper states, white conservatives “would not bother.”

    I for one like to think I talk down to everyone.

  24. 24
    Baud says:

    @Elizabelle: Have a good time.

  25. 25
    WereBear says:

    @satby: It IS a good morning, isn’t it? For the politically aware :)

  26. 26
    Sab says:

    @Baud: Phuck! I have stayed at Marriott once in my lifetime, and that was last month for our anniversary. It was OK.

  27. 27
    danielx says:


    I for one like to think I talk down to everyone.

    An equal opportunity offender. :)

  28. 28
    Lapassionara says:

    @MazeDancer: Thank you for doing this.

    Good morning,everyone. For some reason, I thought Manafort was due in court this morning. Did I dream that?

  29. 29
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    A nice profile: Roma star Yalitza Aparicio: ‘I don’t think I am an actor’

    Yalitza Aparicio only auditioned for Roma because her sister was heavily pregnant and in no fit state to. Neither had acted before. But her older sister was desperate to know what the audition would be like, so she sent Aparicio along as a proxy. “I didn’t want to do the casting,” she says. “My sister pushed me because, in our community, they have never come before to ask us to be in films.”

    Aparicio got through the first audition, then the second and, finally, months later, the third. Now there is talk of her winning an Oscar. If she does, it will be deserved. Alfonso Cuarón’s Roma is a masterpiece, and Aparicio’s performance is astonishing.

    Roma is named after a district located in the Cuauhtémoc borough of Mexico City where it is set. The story, filmed in black and white, is simple – it is the early 1970s and a seemingly happy, upper-middle-class family implodes after a quiet betrayal. At the same time, Mexico explodes with student riots and an army massacre. Roma is the story of Cuarón’s childhood and it is entirely his movie – he has written, directed, edited, shot and produced the film. Yet, on screen, the film belongs to Aparicio, who plays the family’s nanny/maid, Cleo – everything is seen through her eyes.

    Roma pulls off the impossible. It is both spine-tinglingly intimate (the texture of skin, the slop of water on paving stones, hushed conversations in the night) and thrillingly epic (the sea has never seemed so terrifying). It is a film in which nothing and everything happens.

  30. 30
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    anyone watching???


  31. 31
    Platonailedit says:

    It takes two to tango. This totus fugly ain’t one of them.

  32. 32
    satby says:

    @Baud: what about those of us who never use words like “melancholy” or “euphoric” to anyone?

  33. 33
  34. 34
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Quinerly: Red Roof Inn is welcoming of our canine traveling companions too.

  35. 35
    low-tech cyclist says:

    Hoarse Whisperer:

    If Trump rants incoherently about all manner of things, he’s focused on what’s coming next.

    If he hides out, he knows what already happened today was a major blow.

    Either way, prepare thy popcorn.

    To steal from Tom Lehrer,

    It’s only for two days, so have no fear,
    be grateful that it doesn’t last all year!

  36. 36
    Baud says:

    @satby: Haha. Yeah that’s me.

  37. 37
    Kay says:

    The legislation, called H.R. 1, sets the tone for Democrats as they take the majority in January.
    The bill would create national voter registration and expand access to early, online voting. It would increase federal support for state voter systems, including paper ballots to prevent fraud.
    Political groups would need to disclose donors, and members of Congress would be barred from serving on corporate boards.
    In a nod to President Donald Trump’s resistance to releasing his tax returns, the bill would require presidents to do so. It also would create a Supreme Court ethics code.

  38. 38
    Ken says:

    @Baud: Did they control for gender? Perhaps conservatives use simplified language with both females.

  39. 39
    Platonailedit says:

    A US airstrike in Afghanistan on Tuesday killed as many as 23 civilians, with most victims women and children, the UN says.

    The strike on a compound in Helmand province was called in during a joint operation between Afghan and US forces.

    Investigators said up to 10 children and eight women may have been killed. US forces say they are investigating.

    Civilian casualties from aerial attacks have surged since the US announced a new Afghan strategy last year.

    President Trump committed more troops to America’s longest war and significantly boosted the number of strikes targeting Taliban and Islamic State group positions in August 2017. The rules of engagement were also loosened, allowing more bombings.

    making amurkkka grate again.

  40. 40
    NotMax says:

    Pity Queen Máxima of The Netherlands. Invited as a guest country to this G20 and has to meet and break bread with – him.

  41. 41
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: I can’t watch late night comedy/talk show clips anymore. Their eviscerations of trump nearly always start with a clip of him and. I. just. can’t.

  42. 42
    Burnspbesq says:

    Is the G-20 Tango anything like this?

  43. 43
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @low-tech cyclist: the immortal Tom Lehrer:

    Stand up and shake the hand of
    Someone you can’t stand
    You can tolerate him if you try

  44. 44
    NotMax says:


    Still time to linguistically embrangle.


  45. 45
    JGabriel says:

    Question: we know Flynn agreed to co-operate and do jail time to protect his son – what are the odds that Trump would agree to resign and serve time in jail to protect Ivanka, Don Jr., and Eric? Okay, maybe not such good odds for Jr. and Eric. But Ivanka?

    I’m just bringing it up because: I’m wondering if that’s part of the motivation for having Cohen do another plea, this time specifically targeting Trump’s co-conspiring spawn? Is it part of a larger plan to not only force Trump to resign, but to actually get him to volunteer to do time? Since it may be nigh impossible to indict Trump given the DoJ’s policy on indicting the president, and the current DoJ leadership?

  46. 46
    Burnspbesq says:


    With luck and hard work, he’ll be ex-President before the statute of limitations runs out.

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Platonailedit: I wonder what it will take for the US to admit we are in no way interested in actually winning this “war”.

  48. 48
    Baud says:

    @Platonailedit: Didn’t you get the memo? The internet doesn’t care anymore now that Obama is gone.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    it may be nigh impossible to indict Trump

    After he’s out, indictment becomes very possible.

  51. 51
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    A question I’d like to get an answer to some day soon: Does Secret Service protection extend to an inhabitant of a federal prison?

  52. 52
    Ken says:

    @Kdaug: I agree. A person with foresight would have realized that “Trump tweets he won’t meet with Putin; Putin says yes you will; Trump meets with Putin” makes him look incredibly weak and/or bought. And yet, we’re two-thirds of the way through it, and I’d lay odds on the third step.

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    ThinkProgress is extra purity pony this morning.

  54. 54
    debbie says:

    Today would be the day, had I lived a smart life, that I would be retiring. Triple bleccccccch.

  55. 55
    Kay says:

    Blue collar betrayal: Carrier worker feels ‘forgotten’ by Trump
    Renee Elliott waited in the rain to vote for Donald Trump because she thought he would save her job. Now, she’s being laid off.

    Thought he would save her job, which I thought was an exaggeration but that’s what he actually said in Indiana:

    “we’re not gonna let Carrier leave, numbers, we’re gonna do numbers”. Over and over. “Anyone from Carrier here? We love you!”

    “I think Trump and Pence are liars”

  56. 56
    debbie says:


    I love her books! The one about her parents especially. Roz has a real economy of line, yet is able to convey so much with her facial expressions.

  57. 57
    Ken says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: It would be nice to have to find out.

    Also remember, he’s unlikely to stop committing crimes after he leaves office, and he won’t be able to pardon himself. I fully expect him to tweet classified information within days of leaving office, simply because he didn’t pay attention to the debriefing.

  58. 58
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Burnspbesq: Can’t they seal indictments and stop the clock?

  59. 59
    debbie says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Jeez, his helicopter-side chat yesterday was incomprehensible.

  60. 60
    NotMax says:

    Gah. Moderation sux. Help.

  61. 61
    Butter Emails!!! says:


    Pity Queen Máxima of The Netherlands. Invited as a guest country to this G20 and has to meet and break bread with – him.

    Depends. Does throwing week old brotchen at Trump’s head count as breaking bread?

  62. 62

    @Quinerly: Good god, you’re a masochist to listen to him on purpose.

    On a different topic, this thing with time zones where you all are awake and talking about interesting stuff after I go to bed? It must stop. I’ll never catch up.

  63. 63
    debbie says:


    Such delicate eyes. You can’t listen without looking?

  64. 64
    Baud says:


    that’s what he actually said in Indiana:

    The art of the deal.

    Or as PT Barnum said, there’s a sucker born every minute.

  65. 65
    NotMax says:


    As it is offered to the person, not the location, would surmise yes.

  66. 66
    debbie says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Exactly how I feel when I come home from work. Sometimes it’s better to forge ahead without looking back.

  67. 67
    Quinerly says:

    @JGabriel: push comes to shove, I don’t think Trump would do a thing to try to save even Ivanka. He’ll pardon her but he ain’t going to the pokey for anyone.

  68. 68
    Elizabelle says:

    @debbie: She is a treasure. Raised two kids who are now adults. That could make another good book. She was recently buying a mother of the bride dress.

  69. 69
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: happy birthday?

  70. 70
    satby says:

    @Ken: I suspect that they didn’t control for gender or assumptions of class and just let the “stereotypical” names carry the weight of both.
    Which says to me that it’s kind of a bullshit study. Though to be fair since I didn’t read it (paywalled) it could just be a superficial reporting of the study conclusions.

  71. 71
    MomSense says:


    I’ve been wondering about the process, too. I’m
    also wondering what happens with all the Republican Congress critters who are compromised. I’m trying to keep it all in the wondering category because I have no control over what happens and I have to trust the Mueller team for the sake of my sanity.

  72. 72
    NotMax says:

    @Butter Emails!!!

    Depends. Does throwing week old brotchen at Trump’s head count as breaking bread?

    Or throwing week-old Depends?

  73. 73
    debbie says:


    I also liked the one where she tried to explain what it is she likes about NYC. That’s a tough task!


    I guess…

  74. 74
    NotMax says:

    Tried twice to link to Cell Block Tango but FYWP is being ultra-fussy. Y’all just have to Google it yerselves.

  75. 75
    Donna Hrkman says:


    Wowser, Elizabelle! I’ve enjoyed Roz Chast’s work as a cartoonist, but I never imagined she was a rug hooker, too! Her work is just wonderful, an extension of her cartoon figures in bright, vivid colors in wool. How cool!

    Enjoy the exhibit!

  76. 76
    Kay says:


    They’ll turn on him. Not all of them, never the GOP base, but the ones who were essentially non-voters and came out just for him. Democrats won’t have to do any outreach. Whatever attrition they need in white working class will happen not because of Democrats but because of Trump. She was never a “Republican”. She was someone who voted for Donald Trump once.

  77. 77
    satby says:

    @debbie: Happy Birthday! The day will come.

  78. 78
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    You can’t listen without looking?

    Actually listening to his word salad direct from his mouth is like fingernails on a chalkboard. I can count the number of times I have heard his voice in the last year on one hand and none of those occasions lasted more than the 5 seconds it took me to hit the mute button with my framing hammer.

  79. 79
    Baud says:




    I’ll take it, but I’m not interested in worrying about them.

  80. 80
    Tom65 says:

    The bar on Trump’s behavior at these summits has reached the point where not shitting on the conference table is considered an improvement.

  81. 81
    NotMax says:


    Valedictorian of the English As A 102nd Language program.


  82. 82

    @satby: Studies can be fun to hear though. Yesterday, NPR had a woman who worked at the Lincoln Park Zoo studying “urban wildlife,” which in her case meant rats. She and her team went into alleys all over Chicago, counting rats, but mostly assessing what was there and how it might correlate with the number of rats reported. Unsurprisingly, open garbage was the biggest attracter but they also like debris that might provide shelter. Rats also correlate with population density. The biggest rat she’d seen was 16 inches nose to tail tip.

    The call-ins were even more horrifying than the report. A guy said he lived in a single home but could stand on his porch at night and see rats swarming the dumpster out behind the condo building behind him.

  83. 83
    debbie says:


    Colbert’s takes on those word salads are priceless and well worth hearing his actual voice (though there are far more word salad tweets then audio clips). It’s been great ending the day with a laugh. Ameliorates the rage.

  84. 84
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Elizabelle: Good morning jackals. Woke up this morning thinking: what are they raiding now? Yesterday morning was fun. Keep at it, Team Mueller.

    Tick Tock: There entered three men, who introduced themselves, with perfect suavity, as officers of the police. A shriek had been heard by a neighbour during the night; suspicion of foul play had been aroused; information had been lodged at the police office, and they (the officers) had been deputed to search the premises. (E. A. Poe, The Tell-Tale Heart)

  85. 85
    NotMax says:

    Goddammit. FYWP is playing hob with coding today.

  86. 86
    satby says:


    none of those occasions lasted more than the 5 seconds it took me to hit the mute button

    Also my reaction to hearing “This is NPR and…”

  87. 87
    MomSense says:

    Fuck, I’m watching Morning Joe and apparently Guantanamo Commander Ring has been told to prepare for new arrivals?!

  88. 88
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Love this opening from Richard Wolffe:

    The great unraveling has begun. Between the latest guilty plea by Donald Trump’s fixer and the breakdown of a guilty plea by his campaign chairman, the threads are fraying on the scheming enterprise that is Trump Inc.

    The man pulling at the many loose ends of this loosey-goosey business is working methodically in ways that are only clear in hindsight. Robert Mueller, the special counsel, is a strategic mastermind cornering a gang of simpletons watched by a peanut gallery of gawkers and hecklers.

  89. 89
    MomSense says:


    The worst is looking with the sound off. His Heath Ledger as the Joker facial expressions are terrifying.

  90. 90
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Years ago grew corn, cucumbers and other stuff out back. One night during a full moon looked out and the entire backyard was … moving. Armies of roaches.

  91. 91
    Quinerly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Most all do now with an up charge of $10.00-$20.00. His mom is a known tightwad when traveling from point A to point B but needs a place to lay her head for a few hours. I mostly tease about Motel 6 because there is a decent one I have stopped at several times a year for 20 plus years in Charleston, WVA (or Lexington, KY.. depending on my start/leave times) when traveling to/from NC. Also, a decent one in Oklahoma (the only decent one in the entire state) and inTucumcari, NM when going west. Poco stayed in style in February in Quality Inns in Las Cruces, Ruidoso, Carlsbad, and Truth or Consequences and in years past in quaint lodges/cabins outside the Grand Canyon in Cameron, AZ; at Marble Canyon, AZ; in Bluff, Utah; in Farmington, NM and in El Morro. He knows the difference. His favorite room was the FDR room at La Posada in Winslow, AZ. We were right on the tracks with a second door that opened out for train viewing. He watched trains into the night. Yep, he knows the difference….. He says he’s writing a travel book for the owners of ex street dogs….. Totally unrelated, a little red headed birdie told me you were going to get a bit of “Liquid Gold” Saturday. I need a bit of a fix too. May see you.

  92. 92
    Jeffro says:

    Things I Wish Our National Snooze Media Would Ask Incessantly Today:
    – don’t we all kind of feel that Trumpov is a one-term president at best?
    – is there anyone left in America…well, anyone in the 73%, anyway…who still thinks Trumpov is innocent of any of this?
    – which is more likely: that Trumpov resigns and flees the country, or that he stays, holes up, and goes through a quick succession of lawyers trying to fight/pardon his way out of this?
    – can we start asking now whether or not Trumpov, Jr, Jared actually sold US intelligence information to the Russians or Saudis?
    – will the NRA and/or GOP actually be charged with some sort of money laundering/RICO charges before this is all said and done?
    – what, exactly, do the Russians have on Rubio, McConnell, Ryan, Gaetz, Meadows, Nunes, Cruz, Graham, and some of the other most-clearly-compromised GOP congressmen/senators?
    – who will be the first GOP 2020 contenders to come out and openly denounce the Trumpov Crime Cartel…Ernst? Cotton? Haley? Sasse? And will the American public let them get away with it?
    – just what kind of debt do we owe to Bob Mueller and his team for sticking it out and taking on this gang of treasonous moron-mobsters?

    These questions and more, all from a media that clearly does not exist in our reality…sigh…

  93. 93
    Platonailedit says:


    to vote for Donald Trump because she thought he would save her job.

    No, she didn’t. ‘Latinos are rapists’ was her motive to vote for the racist pos.

  94. 94

    @MomSense: Also, his gestures look like he’s playing air accordion.

  95. 95
    Yarrow says:

    Good morning, all.

    @Quinerly: No. No, no, no, no, NO! I will race to mute the TV if they show a clip of him. If I can’t change the channel I’ll literally hold my hand up to cover the screen. I avoid looking at or listening to him. He’s toxic.

    @JGabriel: Trump is a narcissist. He will save no one but himself. The “save your kids and family” tactic won’t work on him like it did with Michael Flynn and seems to have with Michael Cohen and maybe Manafort. He will throw everyone under the bus before he goes.

  96. 96
    MomSense says:

    One lesson I hope we learn, once we get through this nightmare, is that we should put our law enforcement focus on these white collar criminals who have been using real estate to launder for even bigger criminals. Real estate is such a big business in our major cities that these assholes have been operating unchecked.

    Put some fucking teeth into the penalties, too. FFS they have been shaking down POC and the little people for stupid fines and tickets to the point of harassment while assholes like trump and Kushner get away with thievery for decades.

    We wouldn’t be in this mess if NY and FL had done their job and made them comply with the laws (weak as they may be currently).

  97. 97

    @NotMax: OMG. I think that’s worse than rats. Presumably you’d been eating that food.

  98. 98
    NotMax says:


    First blonde that tumbles over a cruise ship railing and it will be dropped and forgotten faster than you can say Nielsen.

  99. 99
    MomSense says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Yes! That’s what my youngest says, too. Once you see it, you can’t believe you didn’t notice it sooner.

  100. 100
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: A buddy of mine once lived across the street from the River Des Peres (the World’s Largest Open Sewer ™ ) One late night after he parked his truck across from their apartment he spotted an opossum running down the street, but something wasn’t quite right about it. Then it struck him. He jumped out of his truck caught up with it and ran along side of it for like 30′ repeating to himself,

    “Goddamn! It’s a rat!! Goddamn! It’s a rat!! Goddamn! It’s a rat!! Goddamn! It’s a rat!! Goddamn! It’s a rat!! ….”

  101. 101
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Presumably you’d been eating that food.

    As it turns out, not alone.


    It was a tres weird sight, though. Like an undulating carpet.

  102. 102
    debbie says:

    LOL. Glenn Beck starts out with a plaintive, “Mr. President, why do you make it so difficult to support you?”

  103. 103
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: I totally get it about not watching. I have gone 2-3 weeks without catching a glimpse of him…. But I do enjoy (actually take pleasure in) seeing his physical deterioration. It’s very obvious if you don’t look at him everyday. Does that make me a bad person? 😈

  104. 104
    JPL says:

    @debbie: Happy Birthday!

  105. 105
    NotMax says:


    OT. Haven’t seen a penny floor progress update in a while.

  106. 106
    GregB says:

    A little light treason anyone?

  107. 107
    MomSense says:

    How is it possible that the VA IT screw up which turned into cruelty is not a bigger story? Jesus, the ACA website issues had the media screaming that the entire program was a failure for years. And those website issues were fixed promptly.

    People have had to drop out of school, people have lost their homes and apartments. More veterans are fucking homeless and this is not trump’s Katrina at the very least??

  108. 108
    NotMax says:


    “Mr. Beck, there’s a crocodile in the anteroom demanding his tears back. He has a lawyer with him this time.”

  109. 109
    Quinerly says:

    @NotMax: 13,000 mesh mounted pennies…. What can I say?

  110. 110
    satby says:

    @debbie: are you sure watching this is how you want to spend a birthday morning?

  111. 111
    Barbara says:

    @Baud: Like all research in the social sciences, of doubtful validity or utility. Unfortunately, the field has a way of throwing eye popping conclusions out there that don’t quite live up to tests for scientific rigor or reproducibility.

  112. 112
    Betty Cracker says:

    The Shitgoblin’s consciousness of guilt is on display in this morning’s tweets:

    Oh, I get it! I am a very good developer, happily living my life, when I see our Country going in the wrong direction (to put it mildly). Against all odds, I decide to run for President & continue to run my business-very legal & very cool, talked about it on the campaign trail…

    Lightly looked at doing a building somewhere in Russia. Put up zero money, zero guarantees and didn’t do the project. Witch Hunt!

    Trump lied to voters about his involvement with Russia and directed his minions to lie about it. Putin’s spokesman backed up those lies. So by definition, Trump and his minions gave a hostile foreign autocrat — who was actively interfering in an election on Trump’s behalf — compromising information, since Putin was free to expose Trump’s lies at any moment.

    Possibly Mueller has so many other examples of Trump/campaign/admin malfeasance that the lies about Trump Tower Moscow will seem insignificant. But what we already know is an impeachable offense.

    PS: “Lightly looked” reminds me of that old Monty Python bit about “lightly killed” frogs.

  113. 113
    Kay says:


    Obama had voters like that- people who came out just for him in ’08. They were either disillusioned or not interested anymore by 2012. Political parties don’t base anything on those voters because they’re not reliable or identifiable enough, and Democrats shouldn’t either.

    It’s funny because in a way Trump did this backwards. He played to his base in his first election rather than broadening his appeal for the first race and then playing to his base in the re-elect. He doesn’t have a cushion, which is COMPLETELY in keeping with how he runs his business and indeed his whole life- nothing in the bank.

  114. 114
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: Oh, no, I get it. It’s especially interesting to see him during the 2016 campaign and now. He’s deteriorated a lot. I can take clips of him if I choose to watch them–like choosing to click on a video. I just can’t be surprised by them showing up on TV because I’m not prepared. I also refuse to do that in the morning. Bad way to start my dad.

    And no, you’re not a bad person for enjoying that at all.

  115. 115
    Barbara says:

    @Kay: I hate that people are losing their jobs like this, so schadenfreude would be gratuitous and misplaced, but the reality is that Pence or Trump never cared enough to put in sufficient effort to actually lie. I suppose, technically, they were lying in the sense that they had no plan to follow through to do anything that required actual effort to save jobs, although they of course are perfectly willing to take credit if those jobs had been preserved.

  116. 116
    rikyrah says:

    Morning to Poco and the tribe😀😻

  117. 117
  118. 118
    NotMax says:

    @Betty Cracker

    The non-operative statement bin is overflowing and quick becoming a fire hazard.

    “I have no dealings with Russia,” he said shortly before his inauguration in 2017. “I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away.” Source

  119. 119
    Elizabelle says:

    @debbie: Happy Birthday, Debbie! Hope it’s a good one.

  120. 120
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Betty Cracker: Here’s a great photo and a perfect analysis of it, speaking of doing business.

  121. 121
    rikyrah says:

    She wanted to believe his lies. Period.

  122. 122
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Quinerly: On a trip down to Baton Rouge a couple years ago we found RRIs to be the most trouble free and welcoming. We also learned to make sure we got a ground floor room. Their stairways are always open faced (no kicks) and the Woofmeister was terrified he was going to fall thru them. Ever carry a struggling 100# labrador up 2 flights of stairs? Neither had I. ;-)

    I haven’t seen Ferd in forever but I’m gonna have to pass on the Liquid Gold tomorrow (my timing is horrible) as I’m going to be underground tomorrow for a few hours (just surveying the entrance series of a mile long cave) and feeding a horde of hungry cavers (who aren’t as pussified as I and are going the full length) tomorrow night. Give Red my best and tell her I’ll see her soon. I hope.

  123. 123
    Kay says:


    I agree, but it’s more than that. The Trump tax law works to encourage companies to move production. Now, maybe Carrier would have assembled in Mexico anyway, but she has to look into these things when voting or she will continue to be tricked. I watched the whole video. She’s not a dumb person. She’s meeting with other laid off workers to lobby Carrier for more severance – she is FULLY CAPABLE of learning something before she votes. She has to put more effort in- not a lot- an hour total over the whole cycle would be sufficient.

  124. 124
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:


    Kathryn Watson
    @ kathrynw5
    REUTERS: Russian President Vladimir Putin will have a brief impromptu meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump in Argentina, RIA news agency cited Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov as saying on Friday.

    Trump canceled their meeting via Twitter Thursday.

    and not to pick nits, but… they’ve planned an impromptu meeting for later on?

  125. 125
    rikyrah says:

    Happy Birthday 🎂😌👏🎈🎁🎉🎊

  126. 126
    cain says:


    Thought he would save her job, which I thought was an exaggeration but that’s what he actually said in Indiana:

    The NYT talked about farmers struggling from the tarrifs debacle trying really really hard to just put their trust in the Donald, like they do with Jesus. Personally, I see no reason to have any articles about these people. Their puerile outlook on life is well known and well established. I suppose people like seeing a dumpster fire in progress. It just frustrates me good working men and women put their hopes on a tin pot wannabee dictator. On the other hand, they didn’t vote for the competent candidate so I suppose I don’t have any empathy either.

  127. 127
    rikyrah says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Vlad told him….
    Bytch better have my money….

    I still contend that Vlad thought the sanctions would be gone by now….

  128. 128
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Does that make me a bad person?

    I don’t know about that, but it makes you a good jackal.

  129. 129
    NotMax says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    According to the printed handout it is planned to be entirely spontaneous.


  130. 130
  131. 131
    Kay says:


    Even without reading “policy” or “positions” we knew this- Trump screwed contractors and workers at his hotels. One doesn’t need a college education to take that fact and apply it to his general character. If he screwed them he’ll screw Carrier workers, and he did.

    I don’t think you need an advanced degree to identify bad people. The disillusioned Trump voters are poor judges of character, and Democrats won’t be able to fix that. Trump’s a bad hire. They don’t even need to read his fake resume- he’s a bad person.

  132. 132
    Yarrow says:

    @rikyrah: Yep. Donald doesn’t get to decide if a meeting with his boss is canceled.

  133. 133
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Betty Cracker: ‘put up zero money’ is completely unhelpful. It basically states that he was doing a building in Russia, PAID FOR by Russians and not himself. It would be less guilty of him to have put up all the money for the building, because then he would not be indebted to the so-helpful Russians.

  134. 134
    Emma says:

    @NotMax: Not a guest. Maxima, a former banker, works with the UN as UN Secretary-General’s Special Advocate for Inclusive Finance for Development (UNSGSA). A lot of this stuff is right in her bailiwick. Though meeting Trump calls for above and beyond.

  135. 135
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Exactly. My wife said “accordion hands” this morning and it took a minute to register in my pre-coffee brain.

  136. 136
    Karen S. says:

    @Kay: It really is hard, for me, to understand how anyone could have believed him. It sounds callous for me to say this, but I find it hard to muster any sympathy for Trump voters who are getting screwed by him. I’ll save my sympathy for others.

  137. 137
    Kay says:

    @Chris Johnson:

    What’s interesting to me is Trump seems caught off guard. He didn’t know what Cohen was telling Mueller – that goes against the whole “Trump has cleverly inserted moles inside the Mueller investigation, disguised as cooperating witnesses” theme from earlier this week.

  138. 138
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Coincidentally, Dmitry Peskov is the same Kremlin spokesman who lied about Kremlin communication with Michael Cohen to back up Cohen’s lies to Congress, which Cohen has now admitted were lies. It’s lies and liars, all the way down!

  139. 139
    NotMax says:


    Yes and no. The G20 host country gets the privilege of inviting ‘guest countries’ to participate. Argentina invited Chile and Holland.

    Trivia: Spain enjoys permanent guest status at G20 gatherings.

  140. 140
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Kay: The trouble is, nobody is willing to say ‘yes I’ll save your way of life, coal miners, and bring it all back’ but goddamn liars.

    I mean, one of the other options is ‘go to California where the jobs are and live under a bridge because you’re a fool to expect you can compete with the native Californians doing what they do’, but that doesn’t appeal. So many of the paths to self-reliance and taking control of your life involve complete bullshit and false promises, and people who are doubting themselves aren’t going to buy in to false promises that expect them to rise super high to the occasion and reinvent themselves to compete in the global economy, however often that’s needed (ask an entrepreneur: can be alarmingly often)

    They are going to get sullen and angry and they’re going to fall for the next liar who tells them they don’t have to change. Racism is not at all required: you can do it purely on the ‘don’t take away my job’ side of things.

    And you’ll be a liar, but you’ll probably get the votes when the other side doesn’t even bother to lie about how those old jobs going to be doomed.

  141. 141
    Emma says:

    @NotMax: I knew about Spain vaguely. What I meant to say is that she’s not a figure-head at these meetings. She’s keeping a trained eye on things, so to speak.

  142. 142
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Chris Johnson: That’s an excellent point. It’s not like any big project proposals in Russia make it to Putin’s office without someone greasing Putin’s palm — or outlining exactly how the payoff will be delivered. Kleptocracy 101.

  143. 143
    Platonailedit says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You are the puppet!

    Gawd, what an cowardly asshole for a president.

  144. 144
    NotMax says:


    Understood. The difference is that this time she is also there in an official and ceremonial capacity as a representative of the state.

  145. 145
    Yarrow says:

    @Chris Johnson: Good morning, I see your “they’re flying Air Force One to Russia to defect” claim yesterday didn’t pan out.

    They’re already gone. They’re going directly to Russia and will never return.

    Trump gave his handler, Melania, a kiss as they boarded the plane. Bolton’s on there, someone said. Have you seen how Bolton looks in the presence of Putin? Did you notice they’ve got Trump and Melania and Jared and Ivanka on there?

    They are never coming back.

    Air Force One pilots and crew do not work for Trump and will not fly the plane to Russia so the traitors can defect.

  146. 146
    Quinerly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Sorry no Liquid Gold for you. You should time it sometime when Wren is in town (are you following his love life and food truck exploits in Florida?) Red will be disappointed. She’s been working here on and off all week on “Salle Roche’s” bathroom. Beautiful slate and marble, steampunky space. Think she grouts on Sunday (with some sort of coppery glaze🧡) Afterwards, she moves on to the electric fireplace area. We passed the year mark on the project a few weeks back. I’m cool with that. My contractor/”art carpenter”/plumber drives in from Bourbon to work a couple of days a week. He moved over to a better paying gig in Kirkwood for a couple of weeks so Red and I could get caught up on our work. Really looking forward to your seeing the project when all done, Ozark. Plus, if anyone needs “guest quarters” in historic Soulard/St. Louis, I gots the place. Great kitchen and stunning bathroom. Open living/sleeping. Private garden/courtyard entrance.

  147. 147
    Quinerly says:

    @rikyrah: Tail wags, soft meows, and waves back at you! 💙💚

  148. 148
  149. 149
    germy says:

    House Democrats’ 1st bill is a good-government package to limit big money in politics, make it easier for citizens to vote and require presidents to disclose their tax returns.— AP Politics (@AP_Politics) November 30, 2018

  150. 150
    germy says:

    I think presidential candidates should be required to disclose their tax returns, not just presidents.

  151. 151
    NotMax says:


    Wasn’t all that long ago that Dolt 45’s lawyers were high fiving one another for reaching a compromise under which Mueller’s written questions would be limited to matters involving Russia.

  152. 152
    geg6 says:


    We found La Quinta to be great for pets.

  153. 153
    Yarrow says:

    @geg6: I have some relatives who absolutely refuse to be separated from their dog and they always stay at La Quinta.

  154. 154
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Kay: Soo many facepalms.

    Maybe a year ago (?) I started to avoid reading profiles like this. I feel manipulated by them, as if the media outlet writing one wants me to despise these folks for their flawed reasoning. Like they want me to assume that whole regions “deserve” their bamboozelment, when more than half the time it’s clear that the majorities of people in these states who would have voted smarter have been disenfranchised. Worst thing about this one, according to a really good Chuck Wendig rant starting from that article yesterday, it turns out she’s been profiled before.

    Actually yep — she was profiled by a number of outlets in January 2018.

    They can’t even find new people to profile.…

  155. 155
    germy says:

    This otter teaching a human how to pet it gets me every time— Anna Hughes (@AnnaGHughes) November 27, 2018

  156. 156
    NotMax says:


    All well and good but not a federal jurisdiction matter. States (and parties) control ballot access for candidates and set those rules.

  157. 157
    tobie says:

    @Chris Johnson: this is so true. The woman in the tweet seems convinced that the jobs of the 20th century can be saved in the 21st. It reminds me of the coal miners who used the free training provided in the stimulus package to take more classes on coal mining.

  158. 158
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I think presidential candidates should be required to disclose their tax returns, not just presidents.

    I agree. It should be a condition of filing to run. Unless and until they do, they’re barred from participating in debates, their names are kept off ballots, etc.

  159. 159
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Quinerly: I haven’t seen Wren in even longer, would love to catch up with him.

  160. 160
    lurker dean says:

    good morning everyone. don’t make the mistake i did and read david brooks latest garbage. now i want to break things, preferably over his f-ing head.

    crossing my fingers that our national nightmare will be over soon. the idiot king seems to be in a major panic.

  161. 161
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Presidential candidates should be able to obtain a Top Secret clearance BEFORE being allowed to run.

  162. 162
    JPL says:

    @Quinerly: The apartment sounds amazing.

  163. 163
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: La Quintas are nice, too. I signed up for a card to use for travel (Choice Privileges, I think)… it is the card for Quality Inns, Comfort Inns, etc. Better travel rewards than the La Quinta card. We made the switch 3-4 years ago. Poco got to stay free in La Cruces for 4 nights in a really nice Quality Inn.

  164. 164
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Trouble in Paradise? Stormy Daniels says Michael Avenatti sued Trump without her permission

    Porn star also says her lawyer has not been transparent about money raised on her behalf via an online fundraising appeal

  165. 165
    O. Felix Culpa says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    this thing with time zones where you all are awake and talking about interesting stuff after I go to bed? It must stop. I’ll never catch up.

    LOL. Wholeheartedly agree. And I’m never sure whether I should read last night’s threads first or start with the morning thread, which is already well underway by the time I join it. Life is full of hard choices.

  166. 166
    Quinerly says:

    @JPL: thanks. It is my first retirement big project… Turning my 1880’s walkout stone basement into liveable space. I wanted to do something more than a drywalled box. A labor of love, I guess. Either that or I’m nuts. Hope to Air BnB it some. (Discounted for traveling jackals… With an extra special Poco welcome💚)

  167. 167
    NotMax says:


    Again, comes down to the states; they hold the cards. Highly questionable as federally enforceable absent a Constitutional amendment as the only present legally absolute federal requirements are meeting age and citizenship criteria.

  168. 168
    NotMax says:


    For clarity.

    Highly questionable as federally enforceable for candidates absent a Constitutional amendment

  169. 169
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: That sounds fantastic.

  170. 170
    Yarrow says:

    @NotMax: How’s this going to work? A person elected president can’t be sworn in until they release their tax returns? They can release them any time–like three years and 364 days into their first term?

  171. 171

    @NotMax: On the state level, didn’t Maryland enact a law requiring disclosure of tax returns in order to be on the ballot there?

  172. 172
    NotMax says:


    Ooh, there’s a scenario for an aspiring science fiction writer.

    Suppose someone invents a Fountain of Youth drug and slips it to a sitting president, who wakes up the next day at, say, 18 years old. Would he or she be disqualified from continuing in office or removed from same even though the records used as proof of eligibility to run show he or she is over 35?

  173. 173
    NotMax says:


    Release simultaneously with filing them during time in office.

  174. 174
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Unsure. Recall reading about several states mulling such but not whether anything had come to fruition yet.

  175. 175
    noncarborundum says:

    Our great Country is extremely well represented. Will be very productive!

    I’m, like, really smart! I will look for things to make us go!

  176. 176
    Elizabelle says:

    Nancy Pelosi about to hold her first press conference with new House leadership.

    She is my shadow president. She is my vehicle for a return to sanity and good government. You can watch on WaPost website.

  177. 177
    geg6 says:


    Yes, they are very, very accommodating. We will always stay there when traveling with the pets. When we drove to Florida last year, we stayed at one in Charlotte, NC and I think every guest there had a dog and the staff just loved on the dogs all day. The dogs were welcome everywhere but the pool.

  178. 178
    NotMax says:


    Extra points for Pakled reference.

  179. 179
    Yarrow says:

    @NotMax: Like Trump, they can claim they’re under audit and the IRS can’t comment either way, so the returns can be held. Needs to be specific language about what is to be done. All the norms have been broken so we need laws.

  180. 180
    Elizabelle says:

    LaQuinta has a good breakfast, too. For people.

  181. 181
    Yarrow says:

    @Elizabelle: She may even be President at some point.

  182. 182
    rikyrah says:

    I am so angry about this story

  183. 183
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Meanwhile, at the big Wilmerite confab:

    Dave Weigel @ daveweigel
    First panel here is about how anything less than replacing the US health care system w single payer will fail. Here’s the case against the public option, which now even centrist Dems back

    No allies to the right! Let there be litmus tests!

  184. 184
    Quinerly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: are you on the Book of Faces? He’s a riot with his videos.

  185. 185
    NotMax says:


    Simultaneous release with filing would avoid at least that. No audit can conceivably be begun until after official receipt of return.

  186. 186
    stinger says:

    I haven’t read through the comments yet, but is anyone else bothered by the Washington Post describing a meeting of key world leaders to discuss global economic issues as a “group chatfest”? This type of snarky, dismissive phrasing diminishes the G20 meeting. We’ve already had decades of disparagement of government by the press, thanks to Ailes/Murdoch media. To imply that nothing important is intended by this gathering is to imply that nothing important can come out of it, so why should Trump take it seriously?

  187. 187
    rikyrah says:

    That tickles me🤗🤗

  188. 188
    Elizabelle says:

    @Yarrow: That’s my hope. It’s a definite non-zero possibility, and we would do well with it.

  189. 189
    Quinerly says:

    @NotMax: and didn’t mean to sound snippy in my answer. Appreciate your interest. I’m about a 1000 pennies in. It’s a process. Mounting the shiny ones first in sheets. I think we are going to do a three color swirl design. Slow go.

  190. 190
    rikyrah says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Ponies and unicorns 😡😡😒😒

  191. 191
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    The dogs were welcome everywhere but the pool.

    Say WHAT???? That’s water dog discrimination!!!

  192. 192
    NotMax says:


    Article or columnist? Important distinction.

    If the former, hard news or puff piece (accompanied by Ms so-and-so, resplendent in a blue and maroon sateen gown)?

  193. 193
    rikyrah says:

    Anyone know what Democrat is going to be over the committee that oversees the VA?
    Maybe we should begin a contact campaign to them.

  194. 194
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Baud: My daughter’s credit card info was atolen in the hack. The thieves or whoever they sold the info to tried to use it to buy internet advertising.

  195. 195
    Elizabelle says:


    How is it possible that the VA IT screw up which turned into cruelty is not a bigger story? … this is not trump’s Katrina at the very least??

    Trump doesn’t get a Katrina. TrumpRules. He is a veritable tsunami of garbage and venality and vitriol and incompetence every single week. Every few days. So normal standards do not apply to him.

    Although. The VA nonservice and noncompassion to veterans resonates in communities. There will be a reckoning, but it may be at the ballot box.

  196. 196
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Like Trump, they can claim they’re under audit and the IRS can’t comment either way

    Being under audit does not bar the release of tax returns in any way shape or form. trump’s bullshit is bullshit bereft of legal underpinning.

  197. 197
    Elizabelle says:

    @Gelfling 545: Internet advertising. That’s a new one. For businesses they are launching, or for propaganda to destabilize?

  198. 198
    NotMax says:


    No prob. Keeping the place well ventilated to avoid fumes is, of course…

    … common cents.


  199. 199
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    are you on the Book of Faces?


  200. 200
    Yarrow says:

    @rikyrah: Me too. I don’t know what to do but @rikyrah: this is a good suggestion. Vets groups should be spearheading it, I’d think.

  201. 201
    Yarrow says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I know that. My point is we need the law to be specific about what is required. No wiggle room. Tax returns will be released upon submission, even if audits may happen. Or something.

  202. 202

    @Elizabelle: One time our credit card was compromised and someone used it to donate $10K to Harvard. That one was a puzzler.

  203. 203
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @rikyrah: Per wiki, here are the current Dem members, I don’t know how/if that changes after the new Congress is seated

    Tim Walz, Minnesota, Ranking Member
    Mark Takano, California, Vice Ranking Member
    Julia Brownley, California
    Ann McLane Kuster, New Hampshire
    Beto O’Rourke, Texas
    Kathleen Rice, New York
    Lou Correa, California
    Gregorio Sablan, Northern Marianas Islands
    Elizabeth Esty, Connecticut
    Scott Peters, California
    Conor Lamb, Pennsylvania

  204. 204
    NotMax says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor

    Free toaster?

    (In stunning scarlet, natch.)

  205. 205
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Yarrow: OK, my bad.

  206. 206
    Yarrow says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: No problem. Sorry if I was short. I’m really bothered by the destruction of norms that has happened and think we need specific laws so that kind of crap can’t happen again.

  207. 207
    The Moar You Know says:

    Oh, I get it! I am a very good developer, happily living my life, when I see our Country going in the wrong direction (to put it mildly). Against all odds, I decide to run for President & continue to run my business-very legal & very cool, talked about it on the campaign trail…

    Lightly looked at doing a building somewhere in Russia. Put up zero money, zero guarantees and didn’t do the project. Witch Hunt!

    @Betty Cracker: If I am his lawyer at this point he gets put on a cash in advance status. Perps don’t pay when they’re in jail.

  208. 208
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: One time our credit card was compromised and someone used it to donate $10K to Harvard. That one was a puzzler.

    That was probably old man Kushner gathering the bribe to get Jared in.

    Speaking of which human Dunning-Kreuger trust fund baby, he just gave a speech in Buenos Aires thanking his FIL for his leadership in the repunctuation of NAFTA. So many different kinds of embarrassment for our nation on the world stage. Corrupt world leaders again reminded of the Banana Republicanism of our current White House, and of how necessary, and easy, it is to corrupt the buffoon with public flattery.

  209. 209
    Quinerly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: didn’t think so. Wren’s stuff is a hoot. He’s all heart under those tattoos. 🧡

  210. 210
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Gregorio Sablan, Northern Marianas Islands

    ????????????? Non voting?

  211. 211
    Elizabelle says:

    Nancy Smash is in the house. Honored to be there with new members

    Three words: Majority, majority, majority. It has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it? A thanksgiving of hope.

    Integrity of government as part of our “For the People” agenda.

    me: Why can’t our political press understand this? They always pretend the Dems don’t have anything to say. Pelosi is very straightforward.

  212. 212
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Elizabelle: It certainly gives one furiously to think.

  213. 213
    Quinerly says:

    @NotMax: yep. The mesh mounting makes it easy. Gloves, silicon, Little Feat, Mark Knopfler, Steely Dan, Lou Reed, Josh Ritter, Dylan, Traveling Wilburys…..

  214. 214
    germy says:

    this is a great moment from @pkcapitol's interview of @SpeakerRyan today— Jon Ward (@jonward11) November 29, 2018

  215. 215
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: confused me too, again per Wiki, looks like he’s a non-voting delegate

  216. 216
    Amir Khalid says:

    Agreed.The G7 and G20 summits are work meetings for national leaders. They are where the agenda of the serious work of the world is agreed on. They should properly be described as such. Trump, the self-prociaimed successful CEO, clearly has no idea how to prepare for a work meeting or how to behave at one; we’ve all seen the frustration of his fellow leaders who have to deal with that. I suppose the right-leaning American corporate media feels obliged to downplay these meetings to mitigate the embarrassment of a Republican POTUS knowing jack shit about the business at hand and being a boor in front of his counterparts.

  217. 217
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Against all odds, I decide to run

    Yeah, ’cause Lord knows how the deck is stacked against 60-something white male millionaires in US politics.

  218. 218
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    I’m really bothered by the destruction of norms that has happened and think we need specific laws so that kind of crap can’t happen again.

    No problem. I am bothered by the destruction of norms too, but I have to say that I am more than a little afraid of legislative over reach. A norm allows for a range of actions/responses in situations where one size does not fit all. Legislating these things into law could be as harmful in the long run as the damage trump has done. We need to be careful.

    That said, I do not think the tax return issue is one of those things that should not be legislated. Voters have a right to know who they are voting for and one very good tool for that is the tax return.

  219. 219
  220. 220
    lurker dean says:

    jeebus – putin and mbs high fiving getting away with murder. pure joy on putin’s face.

  221. 221
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Completely OT, and in the “huh, weird” file: new video from Mark Ronson/Miley Cyrus, showing her “driving” over a bridge being chased by “State Police” cars was filmed in … Kyiv, capital of Ukraine. That’s one of the bridges over the river Dnipro which bisects the city. The signs on the bridge are CGI’d to English, although a very sharp and quick eye can see some with Cyrillic lettering at one point.

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    Neldob says:

    @Kay: We shouldn’t have to spell this out. It’s norms. Repuglicans have forced us to.

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    J R in WV says:

    @Chris Johnson:

    @Kay: The trouble is, nobody is willing to say ‘yes I’ll save your way of life, coal miners, and bring it all back’ but goddamn liars.

    This is so accurate and true… When a mine has been operating for many years, and has a finite amount of coal or ore (and all of them do have a limited finite supply) the mine eventually runs out of material to mine! Shock, amazement!!!

    And even in a rich area like WV or PA, or KY, after a while all the rich mines have run through all their coal or ore, and the very next day after all that coal or gold or silver or copper is gone, that mine is closed, forever. In reality, hard rock mines sometimes run out of high-grade ore, change ownership, and continue with lower profits, pay scale, until the low grade ore is also gone.

    And coal mines sometimes are able to continue mining by investing in low-coal equipment as the thick profitable coal is mined out and the seam shrinks from 84 inches down to 26 inches, which is about as low as you can get around in to mine.

    And is obviously much less profitable than 7 or 8 foot thick coal. Or in Colorado, where I was invited to visit a coal mine with a 19 foot thick underground seam, in which they used road graders and dump trucks and end loaders to move their coal.

    But back to my point: When the coal is gone, those jobs are gone also, totally and permanently, but for small crews doing reclamation work on damaged mine sites, which is all of them. Nothing will ever bring back coal jobs once mountain top removal mines have had their way with a coal region. Nothing. Good luck Joe, it ain’t happening, and once everyone realizes you nor Trump can bring back coal mining jobs, making $80,000 a year with a high school education, you guys are toast.

    Other liars will make the same promises, fail, and get fired also too. You can’t get $80,000/year jobs with a high school education just anywhere, either. Sad.

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    stinger says:


    Article or columnist? Important distinction.

    Dunno, not a regular reader. It’s one of the pieces cited in the OP. At the link, there are two bylines, so I’d guess it’s intended as hard news. For me, language choices such as “chatfest” are part of the high-schoolish approach toward our public discourse that lessens everyone who participates.

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    stinger says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    the right-leaning American corporate media feels obliged to downplay these meetings to mitigate the embarrassment of a Republican POTUS knowing jack shit about the business at hand and being a boor in front of his counterparts”

    Yes! That gets at much of what I was trying to say — thanks!

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    Kathleen says:

    @debbie: Happy Birthday Debbie!

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    Chris Johnson says:

    @Yarrow: That’s heartening. Though ‘directly’… was hyperbole, that would imply a lot that would be really hard to pull off. Obviously not directly. They still haven’t come back, though. I hope they do, and hope I was wrong, because things are starting to get real lively back in the USA.

    Good. Maybe we can still avoid the chaos produced by Putin popping the head of our government off like a champagne cork.

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    Chris Johnson says:

    @lurker dean: This is disconcerting. You’re sure right that Putin is one happy guy there. I think in part he might be fucking with Trump. He might be setting up a situation in which nothing Trump does will appease him. I don’t know what more Trump could possibly give him.

    No matter what happens in my life, I will never EVER be as miserable as Donald Trump is, at this G20 summit.

    Feels good man ;)

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    sm*t cl*de says:

    It was a social-priming study — a field in general discredit because so many studies later turned out to be useless, or faked, or both. The journal JPSP has a bad reputation for publishing junk.
    In response to the suggestion that researchers in that area should consider the concept of ‘statistical rigour’, co-author Fiske once described these critics as “methodological terrrorists”.

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    sm*t cl*de says:


    Even without reading “policy” or “positions” we knew this- Trump screwed contractors and workers at his hotels.

    The Trumpistas knew that their hero is a deadbeat and a liar. They saw thee as assets. Their attitude was 50% “Well, if Trump has the balls to cheat and lie to his own supporters, think how effectively he will cheat and lie in the service of the US!” and 50% “It is an honour to be cheated and lied to by such an alpha male”.

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    debbie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    What was the VA even thinking? I know, they weren’t, but seriously.

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    Burnspbesq says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Very interesting question. I expect that OLC would say no, and whether or not that’s correct as a matter of law, it becomes DOJ policy.

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