House Democrats’ 1st bill is a good-government package to limit big money in politics, make it easier for citizens to vote and require presidents to disclose their tax returns. https://t.co/cwpOJ1Ys4S
— AP Politics (@AP_Politics) November 30, 2018
The legislation, called H.R. 1, sets the tone for Democrats as they take the majority in January.
The bill would create national voter registration and expand access to early, online voting. It would increase federal support for state voter systems, including paper ballots to prevent fraud.
Bring it on…
Elizabelle
Good for us and good politics. Go, Team Pelosi and Dems.
TaMara (HFG)
Hee-hee. I see your middle finger and raise you a giant FU
Elizabelle
First question is will investigations overshadow legislative priorities?
Le sigh.
cain
This is precisely the direction I want the Democratic leadership to go. Expand access to the voting box because that always works in our favor. If we want to override the right wing rural voters we are going to have to make it easier to vote. We also need more sophisticated way to reach voters directly on what’s going on because we know the media is not going to do it.
BTW, @Alain, by the way,k with all these ads, my system seems to get bogged own and my cpu is pretty high thanks to “Web Content”. Any chance, we could look at that? Otherwise, I’m going to have to put noscript to stop it. It just sucks all my battery if I stay on BJ.
Luthe
I’m not sure about the online voting part (considering all the recent hacker issues), but the rest is spot on. I can’t wait for all the GOP votes against it because they will make great ads in two years!
(And if it does pass both houses, the look on the Fart Cloud’s face when he signs it will be worth more than a solid gold toilet)
Elizabelle
Guy comes up and says its a false choice. Is so right. I don’t know who he is.
Speaking of lax rules against corruption …. enables national security [breach]
Nancy back talking about kitchen table bread and butter.
Reiterates oversight is a Congressional responsibility.
cain
@Elizabelle:
The answer is no. Besides, we have Mueller for that. That guy is going to root out everything going on with corruption in politics. If you’re colluding or accepting money from Russia oligarchs then you should be in jail.
Elizabelle
jokes about the trade agreement formerly known as Prince
The Dangerman
Damn, I thought on my first Friday caffeine that it was the first day of Muellermas and we were getting more indictments; premature elation, I suppose.
Indictments would rock; I have no idea what good a partridge in a pear tree would be.
cain
@Elizabelle:
That’s the rub isn’t it? The right wing is trying to make this some kind of waste of tax payer money and harassment hoping that the public will buy it. They probably dont, but the press does. They are very interested in that angle, and will likely push it. The press is like some kind of abused spouse where they like being beat up and actively targeted but won’t support the people who are trying to help them make things equitable.
Elizabelle
@The Dangerman: It’s Friday all day.
Gretchen
Online voting sounds like a bad idea, but the rest is good.
A Ghost To Most
@cain: BJ CPU burns my phone constantly.
Elizabelle
@cain: The press are remoras who chose the wrong shark.
TaMara (HFG)
@Elizabelle: That made me laugh
randy khan
I like it. It’s the right thing to do and it sets the right tone for Dem constituencies.
I might separate the tax return part of the bill, if only to force Republicans to vote no on it separately, but that’s a detail.
gene108
@Luthe:
Online voting worries me, given security vulnerabilities. What I would also like to see is standards for safe guarding voting systems from hacking becoming law.
But one thing I gathered after the 2000 election is that conservative voters approve of election fuckery, as long as it helps their side win. They do not want fair elections, if it jeopardizes their chances of winning.
dmsilev
@Elizabelle:
This is a press conference I assume? It’s a pretty stupid question. First off, adults have managed the skill of simultaneously walking and chewing gum. Secondly, this bill is a great statement of priorities and values, but given Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump both effectively have veto authority, it’s going to remain just that, a statement.
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: And here’s how you answer it each and every time it comes up:
“Look, the Senate and the Presidency are still in GOP hands. We are well aware that we’re not going to be able to get much done legislatively when the opposition will simply veto everything. Which is what Senate Leader McConnell has said will happen.
I take him at his word. The American people sent us here to work, and we are going to go to work.”
Kelly
@Luthe: I have some scepticism for online voting. Hacking aside roll out for Healthcare.gov did not build my confidence for online systems at this scale. I’d like the feds to count federal votes.
Federal registration online and mail would put a very hard limit on voter exclusion shenanigans.
Did Bernie ever release his taxes?
OT: 5 month old kitten Phoebe invented fetch yesterday. I say invented because I didn’t train her. She’s always liked to chase a ball yesterday she started bring it to me when she wants to play and carrying it back when I toss it. I need to bounce it down the stairs or roll it under the furniture for maximum excitement. Oh, she also discovered water comes out of the bathroom faucets.She’s growing up so fast.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@cain:
The press is a bunch of drama peddlers – wife beaters are drama, good husbands are boring. Like 2016 were the press was pissed at Hillary for making sense while Trump was babbling like an idiot.
The Moar You Know
@A Ghost To Most: Same issue. For months. I just don’t hit it on the mobile anymore. It’s the ad feed. Maybe they can fix that in the redesign. I’m not holding my breath.
The Dangerman
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, but I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now.
/queen
narya
@The Moar You Know: Yeah, me too. I would LOVE a subscription-with-no-ads model. I love this place and come here all the time, but it kills my phone.
VeniceRiley
Reminding people what good government looks like, while throwing Republican voter suppression racism in their face? I like it.
biff murphy
Do we really want on-line voting with all the Russian hoopla?
rikyrah
Make those muthaphuckas in the GOP
Vote on EVERYTHING!!
rikyrah
Against online voting.
Period.
Paper trail always, please.
rikyrah
@The Moar You Know:
You haven’t found an ad blocker that works?
schrodingers_cat
No to online voting. Too much potential for mischief.
Schlemazel
This bill will get a bunch of GOP votes in the house. It will never reach the floor of the Senate. They still need to do it but let’s not expect rainbow pooping unicorns just yet.
Fight harder and if you have a GOPper senator flood their offices with comments
The Moar You Know
@rikyrah: Not for the phone. For the desktop and laptop, oh yes. Those work great.
If you have an adblock suggestion for the iPhone I’d love to hear it.
Cermet
Smash got the ACA passed; I’m not gonna question either her instincts nor knowledge of the legislative procedures.
Another Scott
@The Moar You Know: Some kind soul here recommended the Brave browser a while back. It seems to have good defaults for blocking ads, etc., on the mobile site here on Android. I haven’t tried it on iOS.
https://brave.com/
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
JustRuss
I’m looking forward to seeing how the Very Serious People spin this into Democrats Overreaching in a Shockingly Non-Bipartisan Manner.
Kelly
Vote for voting rights over and over again. Make the Republicans slap it down a hundred times between now and November 2020
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
Its why they were voted into office. No cooperation with Nazis on any fucking thing.
Elizabelle
@Schlemazel:
re your comments about HR1 will never make it to the Senate floor:
Debbie Downer.
In any country, this would not be unicorns. Why don’t you just kick us?
I am serious. The Eeyorism here just drives me away. Why put yourself on the line and try to fix anything?
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
Amen.
Unless Democrats control all the servers and get to write the voting code.
Otherwise, fuck em and whoever was fucking stupid enough to come up with that idea.
catclub
@biff murphy:
are other large nations implementing on-line voting? The US mostly refuses to learn from what others are doing.
Vote by mail is working in various states. I would start with expanding that.
TenguPhule
@Cermet:
She and Harry Reid let Karl Rove walk away from a Contempt of Congress charge. She’s good, but never forget she’s still only human.
Kelly
@Elizabelle:
Sadly legislative priorities will be mostly symbolic and blocking bullshit with only the House. Even so I feel much more optimistic now than October.
TenguPhule
@catclub:
Voting by mail only works when you have trustworthy people collecting and counting the ballots. As we have all seen again and again, this disqualifies any state Republicans currently control.
randy khan
One thing worth mentioning here (and it’s something I’ve noticed in other things since the election): Nancy Smash is moving forward as if there’s no question at all who will be Speaker and who will set the priorities. Now, I happen to think that’s an accurate take, but she’s essentially ignoring all of the press about how scary it is that the caucus isn’t unanimous in supporting her and just doing the job. I really like it.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: As we saw in the reporting about NC yesterday, there’s potential for mischief in paper absentee ballots as well. Any system can be broken if the people with authority want to break it.
It’s not that hard to create a secure on-line system that records a few choices per voter maybe twice a year. There just has to be the will, and the funding, to do so.
Voters should have 30 days to submit their ballots via the method of their choosing – on-line, mail, at a polling booth, etc., IMO.
But the most important thing is to have sensible people in charge. The way to do that is to get legislation proposed and have people argue about it. Let everyone see where they stand. And vote out the monsters who oppose good legislation and who try to exclude voters they don’t like. So, Nancy’s right – even if this legislation can’t pass and be enacted in January, it needs to be talked about, debated, and voted on.
Cheers,
Scott.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
Your labeling of realistic forecasting as “eeyorism” as always is most annoying.
Frankensteinbeck
@cain:
Very much so. There is a strong thread of ‘The Republican Party is a good man and we’ll get through this rough patch and he’ll treat me better.’ Andrew Sullivan is the poster boy for it.
TenguPhule
@randy khan:
its the only way forward in the ratfucking media world these days.
FIADO.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I love that they’re already starting work, real substantive work at cleaning up the mess, and it’s still November and… uh… (counts fingers, toes, belly button lint) 34 days till they even get sworn in.
This is what a working Congress looks like, America. Remember what we pay them for?
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: Explain to me the legislative process – any legislative process – that gets Mitch McConnell to put HR1 on the Senate floor.
Because if he doesn’t do it, it does not and cannot happen.
Waiting for your magical and no doubt spiritually uplifting solution.
TenguPhule
@Frankensteinbeck:
Sullivan is a self-entitled prick who never met a GOP ass he didn’t want to kiss.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
Vote HARDER, not smarter! //s
TenguPhule
@Another Scott:
I seem to have discovered the fatal flaws in your approach.
Eric U.
I would like to see paper ballots be mandatory. All the touchscreen companies seem to be shady. We have machine countable paper ballots and they tell you if you under-vote. I like that system. I would like to see early voting too, but I suspect that a mandate for that would be held unconstitutional.
I agree none of this will pass the Senate, but I think the Dems in the House need to make Mcturtle look bad as often as possible. And it’s always possible to hold things hostage in reconciliation.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Elizabelle: To the Eeyores. Can we agree to at least this level of optimisim about the 116th Congress? Prediction: The number of bills which are signed into law between now and the end of this Congress in 2019 will be more than zero.
Does that work for you?
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
Bring up the Congressional Ethics Bills back in the House. Should be good for some campaign ads, at the very least.
TenguPhule
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Ideally it will be equal or greater then one.
catclub
speaking of legislation: I am positively impressed that Flake seems to finally be taking a stand – holding firm. Retirement seems to be the only thing that improves the judgement of GOP legislators. Glad he is going.
TenguPhule
And so it begins.
TenguPhule
@catclub:
He’s really not. He’s been vote trading his “no” vote to allow some of the judges he’s “blocking” to get through.
catclub
@TenguPhule: I am still going to ask. Has some other large nation done this?
eclare
@catclub: I would not trust vote by mail in my state. I get my neighbors’ mail all the time, and an invitation to a relative’s wedding shower never arrived.
Elizabelle
@The Moar You Know: We might be able to shame them into doing it. Especially once Mueller Time delivers more threats and prizes for us.
I don’t like declaring defeat pre-emptively.
WRT your last line: fuck you. I thought you had pied me. Please return me to pie status. I find you tiresome.
@TenguPhule:
Number one: please realize: the operative word is forecasting. Future. As in, we don’t know, do we?
I have really meant to go back and look at commenters’ predictions. Because I think a lot turned out better than expected. The negativity here isn’t “cool kid.” It is weak. You have to try.
I did not personally think Kavanaugh would get through. That was deplorable. But it was still good to fight and make new nonvirtual connections. Plus, it kept me energized (although the loss hit harder than it may have for some of you).
TenguPhule
Its Fuckery Friday.
WereBear
Definitely. It’s just too easy to flip that binary data.
Elizabelle
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Incidentally, meant to tell you I love the tick tock/telltale heart meme. Go EA Poe. Let’s see more of that. We have a historic villain in the mix. (Several, alas.) And one of those stories was about … an orangutang, was it not? Hmmm.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@The Moar You Know: I’m smoking the same stuff. What I’m expecting is a huge backlog of great bills coming out of the House, which McConnell will use all the dirty legislative tricks at his command to bury. And then the constituent phone calls and protests will start.
As the numbers get up into, oh I don’t know, let’s say 100 bills, the public outcry will continue to mount. Reporting will continue on the backlog, on what’s in those bills that we’re not allowed to have, and meanwhile the Trump trainwreck will get worse and worse and Mueller will continue to drip, drip, drip the bad news. And at some point, the Republican rats will realize the Trump-anic is indeed sinking, and they will jump.
And then HR1 will come to the floor. Perhaps in a month. Perhaps in six.
Also, people like Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren and all the fresh new faces we just elected are in this fight to win, and they know how to twist arms. They are ready to fight even for those who have pro-actively rolled over and exposed their bellies before the fight begins. And they know how to pick their battles. There is more in this process than the part you see on C-SPAN.
I am feeling pretty goddamned optimistic right now, and so I say this in the most loving BJ way, with all due respect, fuck those who are not only pessimistic but evangelical about it, who want to beat my optimism out of me.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
Some of us can count.
That’s because you ignored two important facts.
1. Republicans had a majority in the Senate.
2. Republicans always fall in line.
Kelly
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
and the awful bills passed will be zero.
Mikeindublin
Imho wrong approach. Make the bill’s a one topic bill.
Elizabelle
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Thank you Ceci, for some sense. I agree with your take on it, not the negative knownothings’. TPhule lives to squid ink us with negativity. I don’t want to live like that in real life. I don’t seek that out in my friends. Why should I appreciate it here?
I give up here for now. Got other things to do.
cckids
@TenguPhule:
Um, no. Democrats are humans too, and there are bound to be some shitty ones. All it will take is one D fucking things up, either through error or intent, for the GOP and press to continue the screed about “illegal voting” forever.
Paper records. The youngs can learn to deal :)
TenguPhule
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Sorry, having to read bills is boring for reporters and Trump creates so much news on his own that all the “cool kids” at the FTFNYT and CNN and Wapo will be giving front pages to the latest hot scandal while reports about the boring Democrats will be buried on page A14 for a day and then never followed up on again.
The American public is going to have to relearn that boring is a good thing.
Elizabelle
Maybe TaMara should retitle this post “And so it dies. And the hands of Mitch McConnell.”
He’s not THAT powerful. Grow some balls, people. Especially those of you who, apparently, have balls.
Doug R
@The Dangerman:
I think it’s more Muellerankah, a small present every day.
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
Says the person who wants to ignore basic laws of political physics. Just because you flap your arms as fast as you can doesn’t mean you’ll be taking flight.
Elizabelle
@TenguPhule: You have just become lemon chess.
Buh bye.
Kay
@Luthe:
It’s not online voting. They all picked up and repeated the exact same error:
TenguPhule
@Elizabelle:
Perhaps you should go and read the Senate rules. Because yes, he gets to set the fucking Senate agenda as Senate majority leader.
debit
@The Moar You Know: Not trying to speak for anyone else, but I imagine part of the frustration with preemptive “never gonna happen”-ism is that you don’t know if you don’t try. I realize that the Turtle of the Senate will probably continue to do everything in his power to make sure nothing we want makes it to the floor, but we can try to make him pay for it. And if not him, target vulnerable GOP senators and make them pay for it.
I just have no time for anyone who shrugs and says, “eh, what can you do?” Make noise, make phone calls, go stand in front of a local office with a sign. I mean, christ, they may want to fuck us over but do we have to make it easy for them?
Doug R
@A Ghost To Most:
Firefox for Android has an Adblock extension.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
And this is what, less then a month after fucking up because Paul Ryan lied to them.
JFC our media will not learn.
Miss Bianca
Oh, YES.
Bring it, Dems! Make the Senate reject it.
AGAIN and AGAIN for the next two years.
See how Repubs like that look when the other team is wearing it.
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: That’s your plan. Wow. Shame the GOP. Shame Mitch McConnell. Do you read the actual words you type?
Makes “thoughts and prayers” seem downright practical.
I don’t think I’ll put you back on the pie list, you’ve crossed the line into absurdist comedy and I’ve always enjoyed that.
TenguPhule
@debit:
And that’s the point. We’re not ragging Elizabelle over this. We AGREE that’s what needs to happen. We’re ragging her for trying to Green Lantern the bill into passing in the Senate.
Kay
@TenguPhule:
They’ll never push online voting. The bill actually includes paper ballot (back up) funding.
Elizabelle
@The Moar You Know:
Got to say, I am amazed at the variety of pie expressions. Long live the pie filter.
opiejeanne
@TenguPhule: I’m sure she fucking knows this won’t get past Mitch. Pretty sure it’s the being slapped down at the mere mention of this good government bill.
And then the piling on.
Doug R
@The Moar You Know:
Try Firefox
TenguPhule
@Kay:
This is long overdue.
Sadly, unless its mandatory, I can see Republican controlled states rejecting the money. If the local Democratic state parties are smart, they’ll be ready to make a huge stink about that.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Totally OT but I know we have people like Ozark in the construction trades.
I need a survey done for a fence permit. Need to check the boundary lines. And no idea how to find a surveying company.
So I figured I’d go through Angie’s List. And right away I’m stuck on the first question. Do I want a “Boundary Survey (American Land Title Association”? That sounds right. But also there’s “Plot Survey”. Well, yes, I want to survey my plot. And there’s “Construction Survey”. Well yes, this is for construction. And the other choices sound plausible too.
How do these differ and which do I want? Anyway I’m going with Boundary Survey for the moment.
TenguPhule
@opiejeanne:
Keep reading Elizabelle’s posts and you’ll see that sadly you’re wrong about this.
Mnemosyne
@A Ghost To Most:
Cole advised me to switch to an iPhone browser called Brave, which blocks all kinds of stuff. It seems to work pretty well and has reduced the amount of battery B-J uses considerably (though IMO it probably still uses more than its share).
waratah
Online voting worried me at first, then I thought about college students trying to vote and register online here in Texas and I do not think it was available, well voting was not.
Online voting will make it easier for young to vote.
debbie
@Schlemazel:
So don’t even bother trying?
We need to stake out our position on every issue. If it doesn’t pass, we will still be on the record for good governance. What will the GOP be on the record for? Anything good or in the American spirit? Of course not.
(Not picking on you; just speed reading between rounds of errands)
TenguPhule
Newsdump Friday indeed.
The Moar You Know
@debit: Never said “don’t try”. In fact, there will be a great deal of value in a House that is working and trying to get shit done, and a Senate that refuses to do anything at all for the 2020 contest. I’m not ignoring that. In fact, I’m counting on it.
I’m simply saying “don’t expect anything Dems write to come to the Senate floor”, because that won’t happen.
opiejeanne
@Elizabelle: The Murders in the Rue Morgue? That was an orang with a blade of some sort.
TenguPhule
@debbie:
No, trying is the point. We make Republicans own their failure to let it come to a vote in the Senate and make them wear their votes in the House.
Nothing is going to pass, but by damn we can make them pay for every drop of blood they shed.
randy khan
@The Moar You Know:
Here’s one: Append it to a must-pass budget bill. There’s a lot of detail that follows from that, but it’s the exact way that the Dems got things into bills even when they were in the minority in both houses.
Mnemosyne
@The Moar You Know:
Download a browser called Brave from the App Store. It works pretty well. The one downside is that it takes away Major^4’s nice buttons that let you scroll more easily.
Doug R
@The Moar You Know:
Speaking of sounding like an abused spouse….
We put it out there, let them deal with that.
Mitch McConnell is compromised, Mike Pence is compromised and Mueller is just getting started-A LOT can happen in a month or two-I understand having realistic expectations but that’s part of politics-getting your good ideas out there and letting the opposition hang itself.
I dunno, maybe it’s living in Canada with my weed-I’m thinking anything is possible.
Mike E
@Kelly: a “mouser” is a joy to discover…keep feeding that lil rascal’s habit!
Kay
@waratah:
It isn’t online voting. It’s online registration. Democrats will never do online voting. Something like 70% of Democrats polled say election integrity is a concern.
Kay
@TenguPhule:
I like the scanned paper ballot. Best of both worlds and if there’s an issue you have the paper.
TenguPhule
@randy khan:
Must-pass means nothing to Trump. And its a double edged sword. Republicans are going to try hard to rickroll the Democrats into approving horrible shit in order to keep the government funded.
Pelosi is going to need to hang firm and tell them to fuck off.
schrodingers_cat
@debit:Thank You. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. One attempts to do difficult things not because one is guaranteed success.
TenguPhule
@Kay: I do too. It’d be nice to have that as the national standard.
Gin & Tonic
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I hired a surveyor a few years back just because I was curious about one side of my property, after the house there was bought by new neighbors. I frankly didn’t know there were that many choices – I drive past an office almost daily that says something like “John Doe Associates, Surveyors/Engineers”, so I called them up, said what I wanted, they said “Sure, we’ll do it for $x some time next week.” I said “OK”, so they left the report and an invoice in my mailbox and I mailed them a check. Not even sure what the surveyor looks like.
I know this isn’t much help, but maybe you’re over-thinking things?
Ben Cisco
@TaMara (HFG):
BWAHAAHAA! What she said, and take some of THAT with you!
Mnemosyne
@opiejeanne:
Yep. God forbid anyone should express any excitement or optimism about Democrats having control of the House again, or that Nancy Pelosi may actually know what she’s doing, unlike the mopes on the Republican side who couldn’t even get their own caucus to vote for their own bills without weeks of arm-twisting.
opiejeanne
@TenguPhule: I did, and you are just piling on. And on. And on.
Jesus Christ, I just took you off of the pie filter not long ago. Do I have to put it back?
Going to Costco for bacon. I will join a different thread later.
randy khan
@TenguPhule:
(A) No goal-post moving. The question was whether McConnell would allow a floor vote, and I explained how it could happen.
(B) But to respond to the moved goal posts, Trump hasn’t vetoed a spending bill yet, so the odds are good. And if he does veto a spending bill over good government stuff, that’s great for the Dems. If he vetoes it over releasing tax returns, ditto.
(C) Yes, it goes both ways, but Pelosi seems to be pretty good at getting what she wants into spending legislation while killing bad stuff.
Kay
@TenguPhule:
Right. The thing about other countries who use voter ID (and they do- Mexico did an election system revamp that requires ID) is they have a consistent, universal federal ID and national laws. That’s why voting rights people object to the comparisons with the US. The bullshit and trickery is in the details. If we had a federal ID that was universal and mandated and easily available I wouldn’t have a problem with voter ID. But we don’t. We have 50 schemes that are a fragmented mess.
TenguPhule
@opiejeanne:
Well if she walks a mile in my shoes, maybe she’ll learn something from the experience.
I don’t get this whole “refusing to take yes for an answer” when I’m saying repeatedly that I agree with the House voting on the bills we all agree on.
Kay
@TenguPhule:
OTOH, the fragmented nature of US voting systems protects from really massive, system-wide fraud so a national scheme would be a trade-off. If someone wanted to screw with it they could REALLY screw with it if it were nation-wide, same system. Our current system makes that kind of wide, systemic fuckery almost impossible. So fragmented can be an advantage.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah, maybe. Don’t know why they even asked the question.
Anyway, Angie’s List works fast as it turns out. While I was checking out the reviews and credentials of the surveyors they recommended for me, the guy I was already thinking about had also gotten my description of the job and my cell phone #. And he called me. And I agreed to his schedule and fees.
It took me a long time to figure out that “Yelp” was actually meant to be a digital version of “YELlow Pages”, which would have been the old way of searching. But I trust Angie’s List a lot more. Looks like it’s a hell of a resource for contractors to get work too.
TenguPhule
@randy khan: (A) House and Senate will pass competing versions, its in reconciliation that they’ll be negotiating.
(B) Trump has never been given an opportunity to “stick it to the libs” by vetoing a Democratic bill (C) I agree, she’s been good. Its just that Republicans can also apply pressure which I think shouldn’t be underestimated because they’ve already done a lot of things traditionally thought of as suicidal politically.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Yep, but the last one is always the hardest to achieve because it requires funding and honest people in charge of distributing and maintaining the system.
TenguPhule
@Kay: I think we’ve all seen that this isn’t working as intended any more. We need a minimum floor to be set at the very least.
The Golux
Regarding voting rights, they ought to include requirements that prevent *certain* polling stations from having hideously long wait times.
piratedan
and even if nary a thing gets passed, with Mitch McConnell playing Gandalf at the bridge of legislation…. we’re keeping receipts, lots and lots of receipts. Allows us to counter all of the spinning that will be done by those folks that adopt GOP framing as a baseline for beginning each and every conversation about what is actually in these bills.
Doug R
@piratedan:
I think it’s going to be less Gandalf and more Bridgekeeper
J R in WV
@gene108:
No election related data should be connected directly to the internet, or to any networked communications system. There is a reason high-security systems are “air gapped” away from networks of all types. Because connection to a network is de facto insecure!
Registration data needs to be on paper in counties where the voting happens. If you need to change your voter registration, visit them and change it… if we need to mandate 7 days a week availability of voter registration offices, we can do that.
Votes need to be on paper and counted by people being observed both in person and on video, and THAT should be on the internet everywhere, the whole voting process should be televised, recorded, reviewed for accuracy and fairness before any election is certified.
These machines, they’re all potentially screwed up, and just because when I vote with a touch screen machine that prints a paper tape that I can see registering my votes doesn’t mean the electronic counts are the same as the paper tape.
Does anyone EVER audit the paper tapes with the electronic totals? Hell no! Too much trouble… right?
Voting provisions – machines, ballots, staff, voter data, transit capacity, parking, all of that needs to be equal per population of a precinct across counties and states, everywhere. Anything goes wrong, anywhere, that precinct’s voting needs to be extended 24 hours, an extra day.
Or what great political lawyers can dream up, like the DNC/ACLU / SPLC that’s better than my lame idea from hayseed county, WV. But you get my points.
catclub
@WereBear:
I thought the blockchain would solve all those problems.
sukabi
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: you could try asking your county assossors office 1) what kind of surveyor does that type of work and 2) if they know of any in the area.
J R in WV
@catclub:
Vote by mail was used very successfully in Georgia to suppress votes from certain precincts/addresses.
Also, absentee ballots sat in a post office because the return address on those ballots was not deliverable until the election was closed and certified, which in states with crooked electoral staff happens in an instant so no time for an investigation exists.
Florida for a big one, giant amount of votes, 20 minutes to count and certify, WE WON, that’s all folks! Give me a break. I want to vote at a regular precinct or an official early voting center, and see my vote get taken down. This isn’t what happens here, but it should.
No networking, no network is really secure, ask Marriott, any huge businesses, they get burnt regularly and spend good money on secure systems.
No Network is Really Secure, repeat after me!!
J R in WV
@TenguPhule:
Plus, note that she never goes away, just talks about it all the time! Would that some Eeyorism would drive some folks away…
No offense, Elizabelle, I don’t pie you, but still, please.
ETA, fix typo. Thanks for editability!!
Jaybird
@TenguPhule:
This is nothing new. When 8 year old me out an “Impeach Nixon” bumper sticker on my family’s VW Bug, my father, who agreed with the sentiment but worked at the FAA, started taking the bus downrown to his office on Connecticut Avenue rather than make me take it off. Political activity has been a no-no for feds for a very long time.
Jaybird
“Out” =“out” and “downrown”=“downtown” above. Oh, for an edit button…
Kent
@The Moar You Know:
Of course McConnell will never introduce HR1 onto the Senate floor as a stand-alone piece of legislation. But that isn’t how Congress works for the most part anymore. But you can bet there are going to be things over the next 2 years that the Republicans very much will want to get passed. The Farm Bill, for example. Defense Spending. Technical fixes to their atrocity of a tax bill. Extensions of subsidies for a whole bunch of their pet industries. The list goes on and on.
This gives Pelosi leverage to insert different pieces of HR1 into “must pass” pieces of legislation to send over to the Senate. That’s where the deals are going to get cut. You want your red state farm subsidies? The price is going to be $$$ to clean up and improve elections. This is the thing that Pelosi is a master at. She is better than any Dem alive at figuring out how far they can go to get a deal done, and then making the deal. The whole point of HR1 is to put the markers out there, analyze them in committees, get the ideas tested and evaluated, so they are ready to go when the time comes.
Not saying they are necessarily going to get HR1 passed, or any part of it into legislation. There are going to be a whole lot of other Dem priorities competing for attention and insertion into must-pass legislation. DACA, ACA fixes, etc. But the House does now have a great deal of leverage and will indeed be finally able to get some of their prorities inserted into must-pass legislation. That’s how political power works.
Jaybird
“Out”=“put”
J R in WV
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
You need a survey that is when complete stamped (with their license stamp, not a postal stamp) by either a professional licensed engineer or a licensed surveyor, depending upon your state’s requirements. My father-in-law was a PE and free-lanced survey work with my wife during summer vacations. Lots of walking to survey a future gold course!
So your first choice with the American land title company option sounds right to me, IF they provide that official approval stamped seal.
Elizabelle
@Kent: Thank you for your explanation. Very helpful, to anyone who wants to learn something.
L85NJGT
e-voting is inevitable. Start by designing and RFC’ing a solid regulatory frame work.
Another Scott
@L85NJGT: +1.
I understand the sentiments expressed here that “on-line is too insecure”. It doesn’t have to be. We know how to make things secure. Too many companies, though, treat anything to do with networks as a “cost center” and don’t bother to spend what it takes to keep their networks secure. Governments don’t have that kind of pressure (but, of course, there are other pressures to minimize spending, to direct spending to favored vendors who arean’t qualified, etc., etc.).
100 years from now, if not sooner, every bit of personal, sensitive information we could ever dream of caring about (maybe includingn all the ACGTs of our personal DNA) will be on networks. There are lots and lots of advantages of on-line voting (for people who can’t get out, who can’t get to the polling stations during the open hours, who are away on election day, etc., etc.). We can do this, and the sooner that we figure out the best way to do it (to address the security, transparency, fairness, reliability, auditability, etc.), the better, IMHO.
Are we there yet? No. But paper isn’t a panacea.
If you (collectively) haven’t seen them yet, take a look at Rand’s Diebold Variations. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.