Trump Crime Cartel Open Thread: Infinite Klassiness

BUT SERIOUSLY…


Corsi, Klayman, and Stone — like everyone else in Trump’s orbit — are bad people who deserve every unpleasant thing that (I devoutly hope) they are about to experience.

346 replies
  1. 1
    germy says:

    BREAKING from me/@NatashaBertrand: An explosive letter has been sent to Schiff's office claiming that Papadopoulos coordinated with Russians with Trump's knowledge in the weeks following the election. Authorities are taking the letter "very seriously" https://t.co/3uT4q0g4nL— Scott Stedman (@ScottMStedman) November 28, 2018

  2. 2
    Mary G says:

    Somebody’s 15 minutes of fame are up:

    NEW: Stormy Daniels tells me Michael Avenatti sued Trump for defamation *against her wishes.* STORY: https://t.co/ksSVdrlT4h— Betsy Woodruff (@woodruffbets) November 28, 2018

  3. 3
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Is every Ph.D. who puts “Ph.D.” in his Twitter handle an asshole?

  4. 4
    JPL says:

    IMO why listen to what Corsi says. He is a proven liar so why give him air time to spout more lies.

  5. 5

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Is every Ph.D. who puts “Ph.D.” in his Twitter handle an asshole?

    I can understand a newly minted Ph.D. putting it in their twitter handle as a way of announcing it to the world, somebody using the title to distinguish themselves from somebody else with the same name, or what have you, but they’re definitely the exceptions that prove the rule.

  6. 6
    bystander says:

    Jerome Corsi on Ari Melber. Unwatchable. Favorite comment today: “If you have hired Larry Klayman as your attorney, you have a structured settlement and you need cash now.”

  7. 7
    debbie says:

    Klayman seems capable of topping even Avenatti. It’s almost like law schools give a course in how to become a professional asshole.

  8. 8
    Schlemazel says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    I worked with a large number of PhDs It is universal the ones that insist on being addressed as “Doctor” were assholes (and most often not very good at their job) the ones who had the paper but didn’t make a deal out of it were usually a joy to work with

  9. 9
    dmsilev says:

    @Gin & Tonic: The real grade-A assholes are the ones who insist you address them as ‘Doctor’.

  10. 10
    dmsilev says:

    @Schlemazel: OK, I see we know similar sorts of people.

  11. 11
    geg6 says:

    @dmsilev:

    Anyone who has ever stepped foot in academia knows dozens of those assholes.

  12. 12
    Jeffro says:

    Corsi, Stone, Papadopoulos, Trumpov…

    …where is my bat?

  13. 13
    dmsilev says:

    @geg6: Yup. I’ve been lucky in not having to work with too too many of those types, but I’ve certainly heard plenty of stories.

  14. 14
    Schlemazel says:

    @dmsilev:
    And the behavior is not a one-off!

  15. 15
    SFAW says:

    With any luck, Shitgibbon will say to himself “Hmm, this Klayman guy looks like just the right man to be White House Counsel, and my own personal lawyer who also works for me and is mine, the way that traitor Sessions was supposed to be my own personal Gestapo.”

    Hilarity would ensue.

    Well, it would ensue, if the Senate majority and their leader were not corrupt, amoral, evil assholes.

  16. 16
    trollhattan says:

    @germy:
    After the kill-all-dems pipe bomb dude I twitch when I read “explosive letter.”

  17. 17

    @debbie:

    It’s almost like law schools give a course in how to become a professional asshole.

    First semester of their 1L.

  18. 18
    ruemara says:

    I cannot fucking believe these are the real crooks that took over our country. It’s a Klown Kar.

  19. 19
  20. 20
    Cermet says:

    @dmsilev: Just ask any MD – point, match, set.

  21. 21
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    LOL if I remember rightly Klayman was the fool who showed up at a press conference wearing a kilt because he said that it gave his balls fresh air or some such nonsense. He was a leading light of the birther movement along with Corsi.

  22. 22
    Aleta says:

    Article by reporter JULIE K. BROWN about how
    Trump’s US labor secretary helped conceal the crimes of a pedophile ring of Jeffrey Epstein and friends. There were accusations in 2016 by two women (girls at the time) that Trump was one of them. At that time Epstein was also suspected of trafficking minors from overseas into Manhatten and other places.

    [In 2007 Jeffrey Epstein’s lawyer struck a plea deal with Miami’s top federal prosecutor, Alexander Acosta] that would conceal the full extent of Epstein’s crimes and the number of people involved.
    …….
    Not only would Epstein serve just 13 months in the county jail, but the deal — called a non-prosecution agreement — essentially shut down an ongoing FBI probe into whether there were more victims and other powerful people who took part in Epstein’s sex crimes, according to a Miami Herald examination of thousands of emails, court documents and FBI records.

    The pact required Epstein to plead guilty to two prostitution charges in state court. Epstein and four of his accomplices named in the agreement received immunity from all federal criminal charges. But even more unusual, the deal included wording that granted immunity to “any potential co-conspirators’’ who were also involved in Epstein’s crimes.

    These accomplices or participants were not identified in the agreement, leaving it open to interpretation whether it possibly referred to other influential people who were having sex with underage girls at Epstein’s various homes or on his plane.

    As part of the arrangement, Acosta agreed, despite a federal law to the contrary, that the deal would be kept from the victims. As a result, the non-prosecution agreement was sealed until after it was approved by the judge, thereby averting any chance that the girls — or anyone else — might show up in court and try to derail it.

    This is the story of how Epstein, bolstered by unlimited funds and represented by a powerhouse legal team, was able to manipulate the criminal justice system, and how his accusers, still traumatized by their pasts, believe they were betrayed by the very prosecutors who pledged to protect them.

    “I don’t think anyone has been told the truth about what Jeffrey Epstein did,’’ said one of Epstein’s victims, Michelle Licata, now 30. “He ruined my life and a lot of girls’ lives. People need to know what he did and why he wasn’t prosecuted so it never happens again.”

    Now President Trump’s secretary of labor, Acosta, 49, oversees a massive federal agency that provides oversight of the country’s labor laws, including human trafficking. He also has been on a list of possible replacements for former Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who resigned under pressure earlier this month.

  23. 23
    chris says:

    @ruemara:

    I cannot fucking believe these are the real crooks that took over our country. It’s a Klown Kar.

    Yep.

    Now the EPA is blasting out "fact checks" on the National Climate Assessment, not by citing peer review science, but the Daily Caller pic.twitter.com/DGL54dyZ1z— Rebecca Leber (@rebleber) 28 November 2018

  24. 24
    Adam L Silverman says:

    The Elders have authorized the following statement:

    No Jews were actually consulted on, or support,
    Larry Klayman’s efforts. We will be addressing this during new business at the quarterly meeting. Statement ends…

  25. 25
    condorcet runner-up says:

    regarding the Justice League photo … obviously this Klayman dipshit is not an IP attorney.

  26. 26
    Aleta says:

    @Aleta: Wrong link (that’s the timeline of investigation). The story is at https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article221404845.html

  27. 27
    JPL says:

    @Aleta: Kenneth Starr was one of his attorneys and someone on twitter said Starr is only concerned with consensual sex. Sounds about right. Network NBC covered the story, but I’m not sure about the other networks.

  28. 28
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: here’s the letter:

  29. 29
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Being an eeyore, I think it’s a trap. Mueller is closing in on trump and his empire so we need some diversion.
    What say you?

  30. 30
    kd bart says:

    Klayman & Corsi. The Nexus of the Right Wing Grifting Universe.

  31. 31
  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: It’s possible and plausible. That’s what this former CIA officer believes is happening:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/11/28/paul-manafort-julian-assange-222694

  33. 33
    Chris T. says:

    @condorcet runner-up:

    regarding the Justice League photo … obviously this Klayman dipshit is not an IP attorney.

    Also, not any good at Photoshop. His head is the wrong size and not well-blended.

  34. 34
    geg6 says:

    @dmsilev:

    I’m lucky I work at a small campus but whenever I have to go to the main campus for anything, I find a lot of them simply because it’s such a huge place. They are fewer at my campus but one or two, mostly adjuncts or CE instructors, are there every semester.

  35. 35
    geg6 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Emory Law must be so proud.

  36. 36
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    So is it about the point where we can step up the “Tick Tock” refrain to quotes from “The Tell-tale Heart”?

  37. 37
    different-church-lady says:

    @Adam L Silverman: SEN. COLLINS: “GODDAMMIT, MY BROW IS ALREADY AS FURROWED AS I CAN MAKE IT IN ONE DAY!”

  38. 38
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @geg6: Most likely embarassed.

  39. 39
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @different-church-lady: Can brow furrowing cause adverse health effects?

  40. 40
    different-church-lady says:

    @Adam L Silverman: At this point it’s causing a hell of a lot of adverse policy and law effects.

  41. 41
    ruemara says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Is it too much to hope he gets desperate and tries to escape the WH, trips and falls into a well?

  42. 42
    Doug R says:

    @condorcet runner-up:

    regarding the Justice League photo … obviously this Klayman dipshit is not an IP attorney.

    First thing I did after logging in-find Warner Brothers Entertainment on Facebook and share that tweet on their page.

  43. 43

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Can brow furrowing cause adverse health effects?

    If you keep furrowing your brow, it can get stuck that way*. That’s why Botox is effective against brow wrinkles; they’re the result of the muscles in that part of the face being permanently tense. Botox paralyzes the muscles, which makes the wrinkles go away.

    *So your parents weren’t completely full of shit on this topic.

  44. 44
    different-church-lady says:

    @ruemara: People get rescued from wells, so I’m going to save my hopes for something far worse.

  45. 45

    While you were recovering from turkey coma on Friday, the Talibapists took yet another two major steps to erase trans people, and their rights.

    This is part of a literal five-point plan to use the power of the government to drive trans people out of public life — and I don’t mean figuratively.

    Step 1
    https://thinkprogress.org/opm-website-erases-transgender-guidance-ce3a65d09630/

    “Under President Obama, the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), which oversees all federal employees, issued detailed guidance protecting transgender people in the workforce. As of Friday, that guidance has disappeared and been replaced by generic language with no content specific to transgender people.

    The previous “Gender Identity Guidance” page, which was still live as of earlier this week, laid out definitions for terms related to transgender identities, and outlined specific expectations for respecting transgender employees. These included ensuring that trans workers could dress according to their gender identity, that they were called by their preferred names and pronouns, and that they were allowed to use restrooms and locker rooms consistent with their gender identity.”

    Step 2
    https://www.facebook.com/TransEqualityNow/photos/a.218833116989/10155726964386990/?type=3&theater

    “Today, the Trump administration used the occasion of a holiday weekend to ask the Supreme Court to bypass multiple federal appeals courts and immediately allow President Trump to impose his ban on transgender service members.”

    The Talibapists are also trying to short-circuit the court system — and do some judge shopping — in hopes that reactionary members of the Supreme Court will overturn multiple lower court decisions blocking the ban on trans people serving in the military.

    Make no mistake, it’s not just that particular issue, they’re looking for the reactionaries on the Supreme Court to legalize discrimination against trans people — even a narrow ruling will be cited as precedent in a wider legal attack on our rights.

    #WontBeErased

  46. 46
    B.B.A. says:

    @JPL: Someone should tell Starr that Bill Clinton flew on Epstein’s plane.

    Someone should tell anyone interested in that fact that Trump did too.

  47. 47
    TenguPhule says:

    @different-church-lady:

    People get rescued from wells, so I’m going to save my hopes for something far worse.

    Sewer line?

    To date I believe only one person has managed to survive that.

  48. 48
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    What can your allies and friends do to help? This is beyond appalling.

  49. 49
    Dev Null says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Is every Ph.D. who puts “Ph.D.” in his Twitter handle an asshole?

    No.

    I know two PhDs at my pre-retirement employer who were The Real Thing™. Smarter than I, although admittedly that’s a low bar.

    FWIW, in the Federal agency in which I worked, I was advised that including “PhD” in your .sig gave you plus-two credibility points.

    Jes’ reportin’.

  50. 50
    ruemara says:

    @different-church-lady: No, we can cover it.

  51. 51
    vhh says:

    @Gin & Tonic: yup. i am a physicist, and very very few of us even put phd in our email signatures, much less in twitter ids.

  52. 52
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Gin & Tonic: We used to say that what really sealed the deal, was -also- prefixing with “Dr.” Only a 100% unadulterated dick would do that.

  53. 53
    SFAW says:

    @ruemara:

    Is it too much to hope he gets desperate and tries to escape the WH, trips and falls into a well?

    How about the Slough of Despond? Or Moria (in the hopes that a resurrected Balrog finds Shitgibbon)?

  54. 54
    gene108 says:

    @Aleta:

    From the article, Kenneth Starr was one of Epstein’s lawyers, and one of Starr’s flunkies from the Clinton witch hunt is on the Supreme Court.

    If we were a decent society, these people would be barred from society and would never be able to be seen in public again.

  55. 55
    SFAW says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    We used to say that what really sealed the deal, was -also- prefixing with “Dr.”

    I’d alert the Department of Redundancy Department, which has its offices on Mount Fujiyama.

  56. 56
    Gravenstone says:

    @different-church-lady: Someone needs to stage an intervention and confiscate your Caps Lock.

  57. 57
    Haroldo says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    This is particularly swinish. What is planned to counter these things, and what can I/we do?

  58. 58
    FelonyGovt says:

    @SFAW: And satellite offices at The La Brea Tar Pit.

  59. 59
    Dev Null says:

    @vhh:

    i am a physicist, and very very few of us even put phd in our email signatures, much less in twitter ids.

    Yeah, well … you don’t work for the Federal gummint, amirite?

    My two ex-colleagues put “, PhD” on their business cards.

    I know, I know … unbelievable, but true.

    And one (of the two) had an acute case of PhD-envy… he got his degree circa age 60, but I don’t remember the details. I repeat: smarter (or at least “more accomplished”) than I.

    Go figger.

  60. 60
    satby says:

    If NotMax is around, sorry I left before your question this morning! Worked at the Drs. office today, no access to the intertubes. Re: the pendant, I think it’s quite lovely and a decent price from my occasional jewelry purchasing for the daughter-in-law. I think your mom will like it, just the right amount of flash without being ostentatious.

  61. 61
    Dev Null says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    We used to say that what really sealed the deal, was -also- prefixing with “Dr.” Only a 100% unadulterated dick would do that.

    I no longer have my two colleagues’ business cards, but I don’t think they went that far.

    [paws that refreshes]

    Well, perhaps one of them did. I don’t remember. PhD envy at age 60 will do that to you. /srsly

  62. 62
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Dev Null: It’s always useful to wow the rubes, that appellation. My business card at Ye Olde Gynormous IT Company had “, PhD”. B/c it was useful for impressing upon the hapless customer with the raging dumpster fire where their business used-to-be, that they’d got a bona fide Doctor on the case. Every little bit helped when the customer was about to jump off the ledge and take the contract with ’em.

    Then again, this company’s customers liked being visited by “executives”. And having “executives” on the sales teams that serviced (heh) them. So (mirabile dictu) all sales[wo]men of a certain rank got rebranded as “client executives”. Problem solved!

  63. 63
    gene108 says:

    @B.B.A.:

    Someone should tell anyone interested in that fact that Trump did too.

    Trump raped a 13 year old girl, who probably looked a lot like Ivanka, at the time, who was also 13 then, but his devout followers of heavily armed militia men threatened her into silence.

    And as far as I know, Christine Blasey Ford, is still in hiding because of Trump’s violent followers.

    But the Left is uncivil

    Edit: Trump did more than travel on Epstein’s jet once. He regularly partied with Epstein throughout the 90’s.

  64. 64
    Dev Null says:

    @SFAW:

    How about the Slough of Despond?

    +1 for the reference to The Pilgrim’s Progress.

  65. 65
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    I’d alert the Department of Redundancy Department, which has its offices on Mount Fujiyama.

    Is that anywhere near the La Brea Tar Pits? If so, I’m visiting just as soon as I get some cash from the automatic ATM teller machine.

  66. 66
    SFAW says:

    @FelonyGovt:
    @SiubhanDuinne:

    And satellite offices at The La Brea Tar Pit.

    Huh. I never knew what “la brea” meant before now.

    Thanks!

  67. 67
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Why is Klayman acting on behalf of Jews? Is he Jewish?

  68. 68
    Dev Null says:

    @Gravenstone:

    Someone needs to stage an intervention and confiscate your Caps Lock.

    Clue. /snark

    (In case that’s unclear, it’s “I wish I’d said that…”)

  69. 69
    SFAW says:

    @Dev Null:

    +1 for the reference to The Pilgrim’s Progress.

    Unfortunately, I’m not quite as well-read as that. I just remembered hearing that phrase who-knows-when, and for some reason I thought of “Princess Bride” and the torture chamber.

    Two new pieces of knowledge in one post! Can’t beat that with a stick!

  70. 70
    Mandalay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I do not want this letter to be shared with the media…

    If that letter is genuine (regardless of whether its actual content is true), and Schiff didn’t leak it, how did Stedman get hold of it?

  71. 71
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Yes. That type probably includes it on their holiday greeting cards as well.

  72. 72
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @SFAW: One of the nicest things about this place, is how literate the commenters are, and in so many different traditions. As someone who doesn’t get enough of that in his daily life, it’s sweet to see it here.

  73. 73
    Dev Null says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Funny. :-)

    I included my grad degree exactly once on emails, and although a couple of my colleagues commented, I can’t say that the inclusion made a difference with the grunts in the trenches.

    I worked for The Other Gynormous Company™ back in the day, before they cast me & mine off, and I subsequently found employment with the Feds. Sounds like you guys integrated tech and business and sales more effectively than we did.

  74. 74

    @gene108:

    But the Left is uncivil

    I’ve heard that, must be true.

  75. 75

    @FelonyGovt: There’s another satellite office on Jejudo Island.

  76. 76
    NotMax says:

    @satby

    Mucho mahalo.

  77. 77
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    Two new pieces of knowledge in one post! Can’t beat that with a stick!

    Although I am not religious in any orthodox sense, and do not pray per se, I have nightly ritual which is on the order of “What do I know now that I didn’t know when I woke up this morning?” I identify the whatever-it-is, and express gratitude for it.

    Might be meeting a new person, learning a new word or fact, mastering a new skill, absorbing a new concept –anything, really, large or small.

  78. 78
    Dev Null says:

    @SFAW: Not many years ago I used “labrea” as the hostname for my linux laptop.

    [paws that refreshes]

    Perhaps you had to be there to find it funny.

  79. 79

    @Dev Null:
    My employer (a hospital) puts degrees and some professional certifications on people’s badges. That’s mostly because that stuff matters in medicine. Only people with certain degrees are allowed to do specific things medically, and patients and staff need to know who is allowed to do what. Because they do it for the medical staff, they also do it for researchers, so anyone with a PhD will automatically have it mentioned on their badge.

  80. 80
    Mnemosyne says:

    @ruemara:

    These aren’t the real crooks. The real crooks are the Kochs and Mercers, who are currently trying to lay low until the heat dies down.

  81. 81
    Baud says:

    Chris Hayes has Michael Moore on last night, so you know who he has on tonight.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Dev Null: @Dev Null: Ye Olde Gynormouse IT Company (lately, not so gynormous) was -intrinsically- a sales-driven company. It was all about sales and pricing. Many technologists didn’t get this, and persisted in believing it was about the tech. Of course (by 1994 for sure) the tech was SHIT. UTTER SHIT. The thing I learned early on, was that if I was going to have -any- autonomy, I needed to be able to point at “green dollar movement” due to my direct efforts. So I dug a tunnel out to the business, and surfaced standing next to a salesman with an irate customer about to rip up their contract. Resolving that was an unmistakable “green dollar movement”.

    I have lots of bad things to say about salesmen. But one thing’s for sure: with a good salesman, a techie like me knows -exactly- where he stands. You call him/her up, and if they take your call, they respect and need you. If it’s “who dis, new phone”, you know that your work is worthless. It’s a clean, simple and unmistakable signal.

    Re: “integrating tech, business & sales”, as I said, tech was dead by 1994 for certain. Everything the company sold that was even remotely acceptable, was bought or licensed from others. Usually SUN Microsystems. But they really knew how to milk their customers, and to keep ’em on the reservation. Of course, one-by-one those customers leave. And they never look back. It’s a declining business, and someday they’ll end up where Control Data was — bankrupt and revived as a name for a completely new company.

    But damn did they understand relationship sales. I saw some -incredible- conjuring tricks pulled by sales[wo]men. Just amazing shit.

  84. 84
  85. 85
    Dev Null says:

    @SFAW:

    Unfortunately, I’m not quite as well-read as that.

    Inconceivable!

  86. 86
    Mnemosyne says:

    @vhh:

    For a while, reruns of “The Big Bang Theory” were our comfort TV, and a running joke on there is that the engineer character only has a master’s degree while the rest of them have PhDs.

    The show is surprisingly good at sticking to the actual geography of Pasadena and the Caltech campus located therein.

  87. 87

    @Roger Moore: The kid has her name followed by RN on her uniform.

    ETA: The RN’s also have a different color uniform as well.

  88. 88

    @SiubhanDuinne and @Haroldo: You can help by making other people aware of these attacks.

    Raising it with your Congress critters may help indirectly. Come January the House Dems could hold hearings to raise awareness about these and other measures the administration has taken.

    If your so inclined and able to, trans advocacy groups, such as the National Center for Transgender Equality ( https://transequality.org/ ) are run on a shoestring and always in need of funds.

    Unfortunately, since these are being done through the executive branch, these sorts of chipping away at our rights bit-by-bit-by-bit are harder to fight.

    I’ve back-burnered escape plans to Portugal for the moment, but we’re still hearing rumors that they’re planning to unleash the “gender is determined at birth and cannot ever be changed” attack — which among other things would force my gender marker to be changed back to something that doesn’t match who I am. This in particular is intended to out trans people, so that they can be legally discriminated against, and place them in physical danger. If it happens, there’s large swatches of both the globe and the country were it would be risky for me to travel to, as well as some counties where I could arrested on the spot for being who I am.

    So yeah, if enough of my rights are taken away, I might need to leave the country, much as I hate to do that. Assuming my passport doesn’t get confiscated because “lied” about my gender — even though I followed the procedures at the time to change my passport’s gender marker. There’s already two cases where trans people haven’t been able to renew their passports because of this sort of thing. In which case, our countries borders become my prison.

    Admittedly, I’m probably a bit overly paranoid, but given that I also have a side of the family that no longer existed after WWII, I am wary.

  89. 89
    BroD says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Yeah, pretty much.

  90. 90
    Debbie(Aussie) says:

    I have a question for the jackals-why would the Democrats allow BS to run on their ticket? Why not make him run on his own? This completely baffles me. If he is unwilling to BE a Democrat all of the time, tell him to piss off! ( not sure if my terminology is correct, all I know is what you have taught me😀)

  91. 91

    @schrodingers_cat: That’s the most holy St. Barnard of Berlington, to you.

  92. 92
    Baud says:

    @Debbie(Aussie): He has too many supporters within the party for Dems to get away with that at this point.

  93. 93
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Baud: Fewer and fewer every day. Notwithstanding, you’re probably right.

  94. 94
    satby says:

    @Chetan Murthy: @Dev Null: we may have worked at the same Ginormous IT companies* at the same time, though I was but a lowly IT drone with no initials after my name.

    *at different times worked for two of the big three.
    I’m a much happier, though poorer person now.😄

  95. 95
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @satby: Three-letter acronym? Related to HAL?

  96. 96
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Chetan Murthy: I used to tell my manager that I wanted to work for the {company-name} that invented portable systems programming languages, internetworking, network-transparent filesystems, {and a few other things}, not the company whose last invention was 20 years previous. Of course, SUN invented all those things. They just didn’t have adequately-skilled businessfolk running the place.

  97. 97
    Dev Null says:

    @Roger Moore:

    My employer (a hospital) puts degrees and some professional certifications on people’s badges. That’s mostly because that stuff matters in medicine. Only people with certain degrees are allowed to do specific things medically, and patients and staff need to know who is allowed to do what.

    Which makes sense, actually, although (I think – I’m ignorant here) it makes more sense for “MD” than “PhD”.

    I mean, MDs are in whatever sense “operational”. PhDs are “level of education”… a PhD doesn’t mean that you know anything, it means that you have a ticket. (No offense to any PhDs reading this, I’m just talking about my grad degree: I have a ticket.)

  98. 98
    Procopius says:

    Corsi must be pretty damned rich. It takes a lot of money to sue anybody, much less the Department of Justice. Even if Klayman represents him pro bono, which I don’t think is likely. By the way, does anybody know what Orly Taitz is doing these days?

  99. 99
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    @GRAVENSTONE: MY COLD DEAD HANDS, BUDDY!!!1!!111!

  100. 100
    satby says:

    @Chetan Murthy: from 2003-2005, then went back to the first one, which had Charlie-Sam-Charlie as it’s initials. And was borged by Carlie’s old company.

  101. 101
    Kay says:

    @Procopius:

    By the way, does anybody know what Orly Taitz is doing these days?

    No! Good question though! We might have imagined her.

  102. 102
    CliosFanBoy says:

    I have “Dr.” on my business cards, but it’s relevant to where I use them: academic conferences, musuem business, etc.

  103. 103
    Dev Null says:

    @Chetan Murthy: “You’ll never go wrong buying IBM”

    There was a book about this …

    doing this in edit; I won’t attempt the hyperlink:

    https://www.amazon.com/Big-Blues-Unmaking-Paul-Carroll/dp/0517882213

    We had a really good salesman who had an angle to sell our tech into IBM circa 1993.

    Turned to dross, needless to say, but I still have memorabilia. [sighs]

    I was on the hardware side of the equation, just before RISC became the answer to everything. (And rightly so, 20 years after IBM’s innovation. (I’m remembering “MP801”, but a search for MP801 is turning up only the POWER architecture.))

  104. 104
    eemom says:

    On the topic of Ph.D. and other degree boasting, nothing — and I do mean NOTHING — equals the cringeworthy cluelessness of lawyers who refer to THEMSELVES with the title “esquire”. #gah

  105. 105
    different-church-lady says:

    I had a friend who was a tenured professor with a Ph.D., and I never could figure out of the proper salutation was Professor or Doctor.

  106. 106
    different-church-lady says:

    @Procopius:

    By the way, does anybody know what Orly Taitz is doing these days?

    If she’s smart, not a single damn thing.

  107. 107
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Chetan Murthy: I did 20 years at GE, working on network switches, then databases.
    I laid down some of the first C code for the very first commercial network switches.

    My bachelor’s was sufficient. I never had time for PhDs.

  108. 108
  109. 109
    Aleta says:

    @Schlemazel: the ones that insist on being addressed as “Doctor” were assholes (and most often not very good at their job)

    For example

  110. 110
    terben says:

    Several branch offices: Lake Tahoe, Sahara Desert and Minnehaha Falls.

  111. 111
  112. 112
    Dev Null says:

    @satby: Cool! Which companies, if I might ask?

    Perhaps we had mutual colleagues? Or perhaps even worked together?

    Drawing a blank on “2 of 3”. What’s the 3rd?

    And FWIW, I am paranoid about leaking personal information except when I have had a few too many, like now, so probably best not to provide details. Sorry.

  113. 113
    Elizabelle says:

    OT, but today’s NY Times’ story on Les Moonves is truly worth a click. Story of how he was kind of extorted by a has been talent agent originally outta Austin, Minnesota (home of SPAM manufacturing). Anyhoo, about how Moonves feared revelations by a young actress repped by the agent whom Moonves assaulted (briefly, but very ugly and purposefully) during a “business” meeting years ago. Also about how this white shoe law firm totally blew their “review” of the case, on behalf of the board.

    Think of the agent played by William Macy, and you have it.

    I hope Mr. Moonves’ potential $120 million payout from CBS goes bye bye. He didn’t deserve it even before this latest entry in the #metoo catalogue. Hasn’t that cretin been paid enough?

    FTF NYTimes: ‘If Bobbie Talks, I’m Finished’: How Les Moonves Tried to Silence an Accuser
    A trove of text messages details a plan by Mr. Moonves and a faded Hollywood manager to bury a sexual assault allegation. Instead, the scheme helped sink the CBS chief, and may cost him $120 million.

    ETA: Moonves deleted all his text messages with the agent. Who did not. Lesson in there, quite aside from “don’t force yourself upon women.”

  114. 114

    @Kay: She was such a crackpot. I am surprised that she hasn’t tried to run for office as an R.

  115. 115
    Dev Null says:

    @satby:

    borged by Carlie’s old company.

    Carly? She went from AT&T to HP, IIRC.

  116. 116
    Steeplejack says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I used to date a professional photographer, and quite often at gallery shows we would run across a guy we knew who signed all his prints “[Joe Blow], D.D.S.”

    ETA: They were not tooth pictures.

  117. 117
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Procopius:
    Wikipedia makes no mention of Taitz losing either of her remaining professional licences, so I presume she is still filing frivolous political lawsuits and doing … things to people’s teeth. In recent years she ran in California primaries for US senator and state AG, but did not succeed.

  118. 118
    Dev Null says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Oooo! Snap!

  119. 119
    raven says:

    @Gin & Tonic: There is a clown from my high school who uses his name and MBA on everything including his online handles. I finally got tired of it and said something to the schmuck and he about had a fit. I only use mine on my work signature block and on those rare occasions when I think it might make a difference.

  120. 120
    Amir Khalid says:

    @CliosFanBoy:
    But watch out for the ones who insist on “Professor Doctor”.

  121. 121
    satby says:

    @Dev Null: my life is an open book on the net… So my real name is at the link in my nym and my sadly neglected profile is findable on LI. For a while EDS was the third big outsourcer, but they were already starting to implode as I was moving along at CSC.
    @Dev Null: and HP and my old company merged into some unholy mess a few years ago.

  122. 122
    nasruddin says:

    @ruemara: Too right. If we’re going to have crooks ruling over us, we want the best – high IQ, Macchiavellian, sociopaths with the emotional response of slabs of granite.

    They’re around in the US gene pool; we’ve probably all worked for a few contenders.

  123. 123
    satby says:

    @nasruddin: pretty much any CEO of a large corporation.

  124. 124
    nasruddin says:

    @Mnemosyne: Perhaps – if so, they are terrible delegators.

  125. 125
    chris says:

    @Procopius: Doctor Orly Taitz Esquire? Dentist, lawyer and all around bugfuck wingnut? She’s on Twitter but I don’t recommend it.

  126. 126
    Dev Null says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    My bachelor’s was sufficient. I never had time for PhDs.

    I said something like this to Adam some months ago in re Emptywheel, along the lines that “you learn by doing”; a degree eases your entry into the fray …

    … but he didn’t buy it. Still doesn’t.

    FWIW I never worked in the discipline my grad degree is in.

  127. 127
    Steeplejack says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    The RNs also have a different color uniform as well.

    Back in the days of yore, when nurses wore caps, different nursing schools had their own distinctive caps, which identified their graduates out in the world.

    This was a minor plot point on Perry Mason once.

  128. 128
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Steeplejack:

    The Case of the Hatless Nurse?

  129. 129
    Kay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I hated birthers. I took them more seriously than other people did. Got very upset. Now, of course, the President and the First Lady are birthers so you grow accustomed to it, but at the time it was maddening to me.

  130. 130
    eemom says:

    @raven:

    There is a clown from my high school who uses his name and MBA on everything including his online handles.

    That’s so laughable it’s actually kind of sad. 😢

  131. 131
    MomSense says:

    It’s only a matter of time now until this whole sordid, traitorous affair is exposed and I cannot wait for the sight of all the wet rats fleeing the sinking ship.

    Today was my last trip down to empty the house. I’m halfway home with a truck full of stuff and no idea where to put it. I realize I just added significantly to the stuff I need to purge. It’s not sooo bad. I did save things for my dad and his siblings and also for my cousins. My nephew will get some really nice bedding for his son who has recently moved up to a big boy bed.

    Now I just need to make it the rest of the way without anything flying out of the truck bed.

  132. 132
    Dev Null says:

    @satby: Ah. Will look, since you’ve provided clues. If you get an email from me, you’ll know I’ve figured it out. :-)

  133. 133

    @Steeplejack: Caps pretty much went the way of the white nurses uniform. They decided that white wasn’t a good color for what nurses actually do. I’ve seen some pics of the kid at work and she usually wears a mask and face shield(she’s a surgical nurse).

  134. 134
  135. 135
    Platonailedit says:

    @ruemara: What is more amazing is that they seem to be away getting away with it all, Mueller be damned. The system is corrupted to its very bones.

  136. 136
    J R in WV says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Just amazing shit.

    Was this SCO of Utah perhaps? Just asking….

  137. 137
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: OMG. My father had all of Allen Sherman’s records when I was a kid. Battle Hymn of the Republic completely ruined for me because I keep thinking of the words to Sherman’s version.

  138. 138
    Haroldo says:

    @different-church-lady:

    I had a friend who was a tenured professor with a Ph.D., and I never could figure out of the proper salutation was Professor or Doctor.

    I tried to get my 3yr old to call me Herr Doktor Papa. It only provoked lots ‘n’ lots of giggles. (As is right and proper.)

  139. 139
    JR says:

    @Dev Null: in the scientific research community phds are effectively “operational” or less charitably, a trade degree. No guarantee of decent salary or any of that either. I recommend against.

  140. 140
    Ken says:

    @TenguPhule: Bolton Strid has a 100% fatality rate, and looks harmless.

  141. 141

    @schrodingers_cat: Oh, but she did; US Senate and AG here in CA. I almost voted for her for Senate, thinking that her against DiFi would be entertaining, but I came to my senses.

  142. 142
    jl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: ” Is every Ph.D. who puts “Ph.D.” in his Twitter handle an asshole? ”
    Depends on the degree of credentialism that is required for whatever your twitter account is for, or if your twitter account is under auspices of you employer that requires it.
    But otherwise, it is weird. In some fields where it is easy to tell quickly whether you know what you are talking about or not, it is kind of irrelevant whether you have a PhD, or in exactly what specialty.

  143. 143
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Dev Null: One basic problem with the entire company, is that they just didn’t understand the difference between “price” (what you can charge for a thing) and “cost” (what you must spend, to provide/create the thing). They thought only in terms of “price”. And were unable to -ever- compete on cost. So they’d ship machines with extra CPUs and memory inside, that could be turned on by the customer, by calling up and asking for a license key (and handing over serious $$). Intel would never do such shit — that was -cost- there, until/unless the customer turned those CPUs on.

    Every sector they abandoned, they did so b/c of lower-cost competitors entering and eating their lunch. Idiots.

  144. 144
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Not really, but he’s too old and he’s been eclipsed.

    He didn’t look good to the hard left over ICE. Folks started crying for ICE to be disbanded/dissolved/sent to prison, and he argued and essentially defended ICE, which was a bad look. There are other progressive voices within the Democratic Party who eclipse him progressively and are way younger, and it’s not just Ocasio-Cortez. Lee Carter is a socialist Dem and an ex-Marine, and he’s hilarious and totally fearless.

    It’s not that people have stopped loving ol’ Bernard, it’s that they’re no longer stuck loving ONLY ol’ Bernard, not in the slightest. Hopefully he can enjoy his later years as a guaranteed Yes vote for genuinely helpful Democratic legislation, and remembers the moments when he was people’s only hope. Because that time will be forever a memory, never to return to the present day. We have moved on, in the direction he wanted, and he is only one of a crowd now, and on top of that he’s got expectations that he doesn’t always keep up with. I hope he’s got the decency to try.

  145. 145
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @J R in WV: IBM

  146. 146
    opiejeanne says:

    @SFAW: The Slough of Despond also appears in The Phantom Tollbooth.

  147. 147
    Haroldo says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    doing … things to people’s teeth

    So I guess it’s not safe….

  148. 148
    raven says:

    @jl: And some of us have those even more weird Ed D’s!

  149. 149
    jl says:

    @raven: fine with me. Eddie sounds better than Fudd.

  150. 150
    satby says:

    @Steeplejack: I originally went to a hospital diploma nursing school in the 1970s, and our cap looked like a mini flying nun’s cap with the wings straight up instead of out. Very distinctive and a PIA to do anything in. Luckily I quit school before I got stuck with that thing.
    Edited: picture of the goofy thing here https://www.lcmh.org/index.cfm?pageID=453

  151. 151
    zhena gogolia says:

    @raven:

    Love it!

  152. 152
    Amir Khalid says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    And a good thing too. The last thing you should give a wild-eyed kook is encouragement.

  153. 153
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    Baud 4 balance?

  154. 154
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Gelfling 545:

    The Drapes of Roth. Yup.

  155. 155
    raven says:

    @JR: When I got a job at Georgia Tech I was a “Research Associate”. I thought that was a pretty big deal until I was in an off campus pizza joint and the guys in front of me in lone were just falling over laughing about what a bullshit designation that was!

  156. 156
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: Unfortunately. Though I have recommended a Bet Din be convened and the herem be imposed. Also for Stephen Miller, Jared and Ivanka.

  157. 157
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mandalay: I don’t know.

  158. 158
    Steeplejack says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Don’t mock me! I’ll fling some Shirley Temple dirt at you.

    Actually, the minor plot point was that a witness on the stand, a nurse, remembered seeing another nurse with a cap she didn’t recognize in the hospital on a critical day. That helped Perry track down the unknown nurse and break the case.

  159. 159
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: I’m sure it’s to talk about the GM thing.

  160. 160
    jl says:

    Found an article with some details on how Pelosi ‘outbargained’ the Ryan/Moulton rebellion. If ‘outbargain’ is the right word for doing something when your opponents does nothing but outgass BS.

    So, for progressives, Pelosi gave them more than a few leadership spots with promise of rapid advancement, the progressive caucus gets seats on all committees proportionate to their representation in the House, about 40 percent. Pelosi also negotiated a deal with the No Labels scammers that was OK with the progressives, so the Ryan/Mouton rebellion could not even keep them. I think there must be more to it, otherwise I don’t understand why the Ryan/Moulton squad would do so much damage to themselves for not one damn reason, or why they would be willing to look so inept and worthless to pretty much everyone in the country except (perhaps) their big money sugar daddies. but maybe this article is a good start at what will go down with Pelosi and the progressives.

    How Nancy Pelosi Won Over Progressive Insurgents in Her Fight to Run the House
    Pelosi showed why she deserves to be speaker as she isolated a small band of conservative Democrats and won her caucus nomination overwhelmingly.
    https://www.thenation.com/article/nancy-pelosi-speaker-progressives/

    Found via joshtpm twitter tweet

  161. 161
  162. 162
    jl says:

    @Baud: Baud 2020!?

  163. 163
    raven says:

    @Another Scott: They were big in Champaign-Urbana but it was after I gave up on rock and roll and was almost totally country.

  164. 164
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Steeplejack:

    There is no such thing as “Shirley Temple dirt.”

  165. 165

    Pelosi wins the nomination for Speaker, but there is still a floor vote to confirm

  166. 166
    jl says:

    @Debbie(Aussie) My understanding is that the Democrats have rules that allow people who are not formally members of the party by some definition to run in primaries, state level rules are written to make it easy to qualify. If anyone doesn’t like that, they should try to change the rules.

  167. 167
    zhena gogolia says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Oh-oh, MomSense is going to come in and tell us she was a bad tipper. Okay. Stipulated.

  168. 168
    zhena gogolia says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    And a Republican. And supported the Vietnam War.

    Hmmm, I guess there is such a thing as Shirley Temple dirt.

  169. 169
    Steeplejack says:

    @Chris Johnson:

    So Bernie was like the gateway drug to Democratic socialism?

  170. 170
    Amir Khalid says:

    @jl:
    You have to defeat the wizard wielding the Elder Wand if you want to win it for yourself.

  171. 171
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @different-church-lady: Technically if one has a PhD it goes like this: Full professor the appellation is professor, associate professor, assistant professor, and/or lecturer the appellation is doctor. Senior fellow, fellow, junior fellow the appellation is doctor. This structure is not really used anymore and people with PhDs who hold professorships at any level are usually just referred to either as professor or doctor.

  172. 172
    J R in WV says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    When my wife spent 3+ weeks on a vent in ICU, in septic shock, the standard nurses were all male ex-Mil trauma medics in the ‘Stans. I spent between 12 and 18 hours a day with wife, even tho she was in a coma, holding her foot and talking to her loudly.

    One day I showed up and knocked at the door (figuratively) and was greeted (not) by a woman in a full white formal nurses get-up, and she told me I could have the regulation 10 minutes with her, and then would have to leave and she (formal white uniform “nurse”) would be busy working with wife.

    So when I left, I told “nurse” that I would be in the ICU waiting room and that when she was thru with her “work” with wife she should come and get me. Hah! She never spoke to me again, and left without speaking about me to the regular staff nurses on duty in the ICU. Obviously she work that white uniform to avoid any blood or other dirty residue of human life, and had no intention of connecting my wife and I ever, at all. Deserved to work somewhere without other humans… perhaps managing cleanliness of a landfill?

    Fortunately the teaching hospital did its best to avoid rotation nurses, and I never had such a horrible experience again. I only wish I had filed an official complaint against the bitch. The good side was that in a normally empty waiting room, I got to meet a whole family of great people who had an aunt/sister with a stroke across the hall from wife. They were accepting of their loved one’s end of life circumstances, and I watched as people came to spend a moment with no longer really here aunt. People here are friendly and social, and it helps in hospital waiting rooms.

    Wife is still kicking and ready to travel for bucket list events!! Hah!!

  173. 173
    MomSense says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    She was fine if you don’t mind name dropping the Bush family at bullhorn volume.

  174. 174
    Shana says:

    @ruemara: Wasn’t there a story last year about a hole that had developed on the WH grounds and lots of jokes about it being Melania’s escape tunnel? Maybe it’s opened up again.

  175. 175
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’ve never heard of denying the title “professor” to assistant/associate professors.

    At Yale it used to be considered chic for the professors to be addressed as “Mr.” I heard that’s no longer the case and they’ve succumbed to the bourgeois temptation of being called “Professor.”

  176. 176
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @different-church-lady: In physics, I know “Professor” ALWAYS beats “Doctor” if both apply. Ph.D.s are common and mostly struggling postdocs, but a professorship is hard to get.

    I always thought insisting on “Doctor” was a sign of a self-absorbed blowhard, but lately encountered several cases of women Ph.D.s who seized on “Doctor” as a non-gendered title that reflected their accomplishments instead of their marital status, so I’ve been re-thinking that.

  177. 177
    Steeplejack says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    She was a well-known boozer on set. Where do you think the “Shirley Temple” drink comes from?

  178. 178
    zhena gogolia says:

    @MomSense:

    It was hard for her to get over being a huge star from ages 6 to 12. I guess she had to cling to pitiful reeds like the Bush family.

  179. 179
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Dev Null: I fully agree that you learn by doing. Now show me were Dr. Wheeler has worked as a lawyer? Or an intelligence officer? Or a national security professional?

  180. 180
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Steeplejack:

    She hated it!

  181. 181
    MoxieM says:

    So call me an asshole… I did put Ph.D. on my beeswax cards, but only when I’ve been looking for work. The funniest part is, pretty much only when I looked for work after jumping fields (the horror!). I did go back for a post-doctoral MA in the new job area, however. I guess I should just put (Masochist) on my cards.

  182. 182
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Wah??

    That puts the kilt thing at a whole different level

  183. 183
    J R in WV says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Ah! No surprise, less fraudulent that SCO of Utah, trying to kill Linux after buying SCO Unix. My brother worked with IBM until they assigned him to work for a female manager, which he was totally incapable of… he started and managed a trade magazine about IBM’s version of Unix… AIX perhaps? Resigned to take a job with the real SCO in Utah, then worked for Compaq until he was able to retire, fired by Carly IIRC.

    I was a software guy. In environmental protection, regulatory data, more complex than business data by far… a great career, complex, puzzles to solve… still had to sell management on what they needed. Worked out, somehow.

  184. 184
    Raoul Paste says:

    The categories associated with this post made me smile: Assholes, Bring on the Brawndo!, Clown car, Keep Fucking That Chicken, Open Thread, Republican Venality, Trump Crime Cartel.

    What a freakshow we are living in.

  185. 185
    Steeplejack says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Only in her later dry-drunk years!

  186. 186
    Dev Null says:

    @J R in WV: SCO? The SVR5 spinoff?!? UTAH?!??

    I must be thinking of a different SCO …

  187. 187
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    here’s the letter:

    Gotta watch out for Red Herrings, rat fucking is the only thing they’re good at

  188. 188
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @zhena gogolia: This is how it was explained to me by my dad, who was a full professor with a PhD. Apparently that’s how it had been explained to him.

  189. 189
    jl says:

    @Amir Khalid: ” You have to defeat the wizard wielding the Elder Wand if you want to win it for yourself. ”
    Maybe if the Democrats had gone down in flames in the midterms, and the debacle could be laid at Pelosi’s door. Anybody competent would be better than an alternative history where Pelosi was a fialure

    But now, Pelosi would be great for the next two years, and most Democrats have enough common sense to know that starting the next Congress with a weak or inept leader, or somehow managing to let it slip to a GOPers, would be snatching calamity from the jaws of victory.

    So, now I think to defeat Pelosi, you really need an alternative who would be as good at the art and skill and science of managing a caucus and running the House, and making legislation, in order to get any steam behind the coup plotting. The Ryan/Moulton squad had nothing. I think even Fudge had to step forward on her own, and that might have been a ploy to deal with Pelosi, not a serious bid.

  190. 190
  191. 191
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Pale Scot: Yep.

  192. 192
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @zhena gogolia: At LU, the Government Department all went by “Mr.” when I was there. For that matter, so did the French.

    At same time, I was Mr. Omnibus as well.

  193. 193
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    In the US?

  194. 194
  195. 195
    J R in WV says:

    @Dev Null:

    The company that tried to sue Linux out of existence, to protect their Unix monopoly they dreamed would make them rich beyond anyone else’s dreams… That SCO… not the BSD Unix company. IIRC, it was a long time ago now.

  196. 196
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @zhena gogolia: At LU, the Government Department all went by “Mr.” when I was there. For that matter, so did the French.

    At same time, I was Mr. Omnibus as well.

  197. 197
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The whole faculty went by “Mr.” as I recall. I wonder how it is now. I bet they’re all “Professor.”

  198. 198
    Dev Null says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    So they’d ship machines with extra CPUs and memory inside, that could be turned on by the customer, by calling up and asking for a license key (and handing over serious $$).

    One hears stories.

    I didn’t exactly think the stories were apocryphal, but I didn’t really believe them either. IBM mythos, if you will.

    That’s one.

    Could tell stories about The Other Gynormous Company™, but the best one happened after they cast their worthless servants outside, into the utter darkness, and there was weeping and gnashing of teeth. /snark

  199. 199
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Oh, yeah, and I was “Ms. Zhena Gogolia” — I forgot! So funny.

  200. 200
    Steeplejack says:

    @Dev Null:

    The original SCO (Santa Cruz Operation) sold its “rights to Unix and associated divisions” in 2001 to Caldera Systems, which eventually became the SCO Group, Lindon, Utah.

  201. 201
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I just thought that statement in the tweet was so incredibly galling I had to find it for myself and couldn’t. I found the judgment and other literature written about the case and couldn’t find any reference to this statement. Anyone have any ideas where I may look for it?

  202. 202
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Thanks to Larry Klayman and Orly Taitz, I’ll never be the worst attorney in the country.

    Throw in Omnes, and I’m safely out of the bottom three. Zing!

  203. 203
    terben says:

    @Debbie(Aussie): Your terminology is spot on: ‘piss off’ is exactly how you say it.

  204. 204
    The Lodger says:

    @Ken: I just checked that out and saw an ad for a Doctor of Strategic Intelligence degree. Strange considering where this thread has gone.

  205. 205
    Dev Null says:

    @Another Scott: That’s wonderful!

    Thanks! I will pass along your link to other former employees of The Other Gynormous Company™.

  206. 206
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @opiejeanne: I thought I recalled it from there – my favorite book.

  207. 207
    Dev Null says:

    @J R in WV: The last I heard, they were in Chatham NJ. Or somewhere near Chatham NJ.

    Not sure whether that was the late 80s or the late 90s.

    Time flies …

  208. 208
    eemom says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    At Yale it used to be considered chic for the professors to be addressed as “Mr.” I heard that’s no longer the case and they’ve succumbed to the bourgeois temptation of being called “Professor.”

    Holy shit, I can’t even remember what they were called back in 1980-1984. Maybe because I didn’t talk to them much.

    This also reminds me of the hilarious fact about my daughter’s alma mater, UVA: NOBODY is allowed to be addressed as Dr. because Mr. Jefferson didn’t have a Ph.D. I kid you not.

  209. 209
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @zhena gogolia: Yep.

  210. 210
    zhena gogolia says:

    @eemom:

    That’s hilarious!

  211. 211
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I had a professor (full) who did not have a Ph.D. for some odd historical reasons, and insisted on being addressed as “Mr.”

  212. 212
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kraux Pas: I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking for?

  213. 213
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Michael Cohen, Jay Sekulow. We are both safe even when Cohen gets disbarred.

  214. 214
    joel hanes says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    I did 12 years at Amdahl building big-iron mainframes that ran IBM software faster than IBM’s machines.
    All that ended in 1994 when IBM discovered that they didn’t have to compete on single-CPU throughput if their hardware sold for 30% less, and declined in price/performance by 30%/annum, a strategy made possible by the early years of CMOS technology shrinks.

    For a while after that I built game-box consoles, then other kinds of multimedia set-top boxes, then game boxes again.
    For the last decade, I’ve been building smart phones.

    It’s astonishing just how much of the early CPU-architecture and test and verification stuff that IBM invented before 1990 is still relevant today.

  215. 215

    @Kay: Birther conspiracy was terrible. A trifecta of xenophobia, racism and stupidity. Our current President is the embodiment of that.

  216. 216
    jl says:

    I guess f the letter about Papadopoulos bragging that he and Trump had a hard money deal with the Russians is accurate, then it wouldn’t really exactly be collusion, would it? See, Trump is telling the truth! No Collusion! I guess that can serve as the last refuge for the Trumpsters.

  217. 217
    eemom says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Dev Null:

    Much as I hate the analogy, I am pleased to see the departed Marcy Wheeler horse still being beaten.

  218. 218
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: That was not that unusual, being a full professor without having a PhD. By the 1980s most of those folks had largely retired. Now, with the exception of some smaller colleges and university that focus more on teaching, you’ll almost never see one. Unless they’re a professor of practice having been hired specifically for their applied expertise. And traditionally you’d call these folks professor.

  219. 219
    joel hanes says:

    @terben:

    Minnehaha Falls

    Lovely park.

  220. 220
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: At least five different Rudys Giuliani.

  221. 221
    The Lodger says:

    @jl: I like the Mouton typo. C’est belle.

  222. 222
    Steeplejack says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think K.P. is referring to “representing Jews” at the top of Corsi’s criminal complaint.

  223. 223

    @J R in WV: Well, if she had to keep that white uniform clean that might explain the attitude. //

    When I went to the kid’s pinning(the last thing they do before being sent out into the world, aka taking their boards), one of her profs related to the fluids that nurses have to deal with in great detail. Fortunately it was AFTER lunch was served.

  224. 224
    jl says:

    @The Lodger: Being a fat fingered slob, who never thinks to reread my comments before posting, there are so many that something has to work out once in a while.

  225. 225
    Dev Null says:

    @Steeplejack: Drawing a (nearly-)complete blank here. The SV5R3/SV5R4/… group split off from AT&T / Bell Labs / Company Name du jour back in the early days of C++ (IIRC – because I remember casual conversations with SV5R* staff about C++), but I’ll be damned if I can remember when the group became SCO.

    I remember putting SV5R3(?) on machines I built circa 1985-1990, but after that I put up linux or plan9 (I think). SV5R* just never registered after 1990-ish.

  226. 226
    different-church-lady says:

    @joel hanes:

    For the last decade, I’ve been building smart phones.

    Can you build one that make audible phonecalls?

  227. 227

    @joel hanes: Satan had a room full of Amdahls.

  228. 228
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @eemom: Every time I think I’m out they drag me back in…

  229. 229
    Ruckus says:

    In Corsi’s case does Phd stand for
    pretty highly dense.
    or
    professional hair digester
    or
    petty horrible dipshit.
    or
    all of the above

  230. 230
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    That was not that unusual

    It was where I went to school. Funny thing, his wife was also a professor, *with* a Ph.D.

  231. 231
    different-church-lady says:

    @eemom: The horse isn’t dead. We’re just saying you shouldn’t hitch your wagon to it.

  232. 232
    different-church-lady says:

    Moderation: it’s what’s for my dinner.

  233. 233
    different-church-lady says:

    testing testing…

  234. 234
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steeplejack: Ok, that would make sense.

  235. 235
    Dev Null says:

    @zhena gogolia: In my (limited) experience as a grad student we referred to profs by their first name, by their request. Sometimes “Mr. X.” Never “Doctor”.

    But that was 45 years ago.

  236. 236
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kraux Pas: If you’re asking about the “representing all Jews” bit, he just pulled that out of his tuchas. He wasn’t representing anyone but himself in that ridiculous suit.

  237. 237
    frosty says:

    @satby: @Chetan Murthy: What, none of you worked for BUNCH? (here’s hoping I can remember this …
    Burroughs, Univac, National Semiconductor, Control Data, Honeywell. ??

  238. 238
    Steeplejack says:

    @Dev Null:

    You’re the only one who brought up SVR5 [sic]. I was just explaining J R in WV’s reference to SCO and Utah.

    So, yeah, apparently you’re thinking of a different SCO.

  239. 239
    Dev Null says:

    @JR: @JR:

    in the scientific research community phds are effectively “operational” or less charitably, a trade degree. No guarantee of decent salary or any of that either. I recommend against.

    I haven’t been in the scientific research community in 40-odd years, so no point in my commenting.

  240. 240
    joel hanes says:

    @frosty:

    Close. The “N” in BUNCH was NCR, nee’ the National Cash Register Company.
    They were actually first, and kept trying for a looong time.

  241. 241
    catclub says:

    @Another Scott: I am impressed that the linux tune was written by Rick Moen

  242. 242
    Steeplejack says:

    @frosty:

    I used to work (indirectly) for a company that did software for IBM big iron. The charismatic president was a popular speaker at industry events, and one of his go-to jokes was that Fairchild and Honeywell were going to merge as Fairwell Honeychild. Hilarious until you heard it 10 or 20 times.

  243. 243
    Dev Null says:

    @Steeplejack:

    You’re the only one who brought up SVR5 [sic]. I was just explaining J R in WV’s reference to SCO and Utah.

    So, yeah, apparently you’re thinking of a different SCO.

    re [sic], you’re right, it’s SV5R[345] etc. My bad.

    And it’s the same SCO, unless I am badly confused. I had no idea that they wound up in Utah, hence my surprise.

  244. 244
    frosty says:

    @JR: When I got my second MS (yeah, I know) I asked my advisor what other classes I’d need for a PhD based on what I’d taken. His only answer was “You don’t want a PhD.” Civil Engineering / Water Resources. He was right. I’d’ve been overqualified, nobody would care, and it wouldn’t have changed my salary.

  245. 245
    The Lodger says:

    @Dev Null: I always thought they shipped excess hardware because it was way cheaper to build units with too much power than to send out field techs. I never met anyone making the big bucks in IBM manufacturing.

  246. 246
    joel hanes says:

    And it’s the same SCO, unless I am badly confused

    All different people: the Utah assholes bought the name and the UNIX rights from the original SCO, and got rid of everyone but scammers.

  247. 247
    Dev Null says:

    @eemom: I get a kick out of teasing Adam. /snark

    Surprised he hasn’t banned me …

  248. 248
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Dev Null: You’re fine. And I’ve only banned three people. Though one of those I’ve banned at least 25 times because he keeps trying to sneak back in using different nyms.

  249. 249
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @The Lodger: Either explanation is consistent with “we have no idea how to compete on -cost-“. Which they sure didn’t, and sure don’t, and sure never will.

  250. 250
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    One of the nicest things about this place,

    Come for the animal pics, stay for the recipes

  251. 251
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @satby:

    I originally went to a hospital diploma nursing school in the 1970s, and our cap looked like a mini flying nun’s cap with the wings straight up instead of out. Very distinctive and a PIA to do anything in.

    I seem to recall, from a childhood saturated in Sue Barton/Cherry Ames, that there was some kind of kabbalistic-like significance inherent in the width of the black velvet ribbon on the starched white nurse’s cap. The wider the ribbon, the higher the rank, or something.

  252. 252
    joel hanes says:

    @The Lodger:

    I always thought they shipped excess hardware because it was way cheaper to build units with too much power than to send out field techs.

    That’s the way I heard the story too.

    Also because in those days verification had not yet become good enough, so sometimes a field guy would bring out a new piece and put it in the machine and it wouldn’t work in that machine. So they floor-tested and shipped full-up configurations because they could that way know in advance that the HW would work when enabled; otherwise it was a gamble with the customer’s machine-time.

  253. 253
    SFAW says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Thanks to Larry Klayman and Orly Taitz, I’ll never be the worst attorney in the country.

    Jury’s still out on that one, bucko.

  254. 254
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @joel hanes: That probably was true “back in those days”. I saw this practice in 2006. Insane.

  255. 255
    Dev Null says:

    @joel hanes:

    It’s astonishing just how much of the early CPU-architecture and test and verification stuff that IBM invented before 1990 is still relevant today.

    By no means expert in CPU architecture or test & verification, but to pick only one: virtual machines. Really amazing that they thought this out 30 years before VMs became practical on desktops. (Not pretending to know the dates, but roughly 1968 to 1998.)

    Or RDBMS…

  256. 256
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Dev Null:

    Or RDBMS

    Last software innovation they ever made.

  257. 257
    Another Scott says:

    @catclub: He had a lot of help from Karsten, and some small contributions from others. But yeah, it was quite well done, and it was fun to see it take shape.

    Those were interesting times!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  258. 258
    Dev Null says:

    @The Pale Scot:

    Come for the animal pics, stay for the recipes

    +1

  259. 259
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Though one of those I’ve banned at least 25 times because he keeps trying to sneak back in using different nyms.

    Okay, so, just checking: are you warning me against “SiubhanDuinne, Mob Enforcer” and “SiubhanDuinne, Badass Jackal”?

  260. 260
    Dev Null says:

    @The Lodger: @joel hanes:

    I always thought they shipped excess hardware because it was way cheaper to build units with too much power than to send out field techs.

    That’s the way I heard the story too.

    No firsthand knowledge, but I believe I first heard this story in the 1980s.

    EDIT: which doesn’t mean that your explanation is wrong.

  261. 261
    Dev Null says:

    @Chetan Murthy: RISC (“MP801”) was in the 1970s, wasn’t it? Which would be later than RDBMS, no?

  262. 262
    rikyrah says:

    @Aleta:
    Hoping that a Front Pager will tackle this horrific story.

  263. 263
  264. 264
    Steeplejack says:

    This thread has led me to look up a few colorful characters I knew from the software industry in the ’80s-90s and hadn’t thought about in years. Interesting to see where they ended up.

  265. 265
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: hey, I’m just trying to let people know where I am!

    Steve in DUVAL!!!

    Bortles!!!

  266. 266
    Jackie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I LOVED Sue Barton! And, I recall something of the sort, too.

  267. 267
    Dev Null says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Okay, so, just checking: are you warning me against “SiubhanDuinne, Mob Enforcer” and “SiubhanDuinne, Badass Jackal”?

    Guessing the answer is “yes”. /snark

  268. 268
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SFAW: d’oh!

    I didn’t even mention our alleged acting AG or Alberto Gonzalez or burnsie….

  269. 269
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @The Pale Scot:

    You may or may not remember this:

    Good old Balloon Juice,
    As good as it gets:
    Come for the POLITICS,
    Stay for the PETS.

    Balloon Juice will serve you,
    Whatever your mood:
    Come for the ANIMALS,
    Stay for the FOOD.

    Most of us love Cole’s
    Emotional rants:
    Come for the RECIPES,
    Stay for the PLANTS.

    The kittehs meow,
    And the puppehs do bark.
    Come for the GARDENING,
    Stay for the SNARK.

    We make fun of Huckabee-
    Sanders’s looks:
    Come for the NASTINESS,
    Stay for the BOOKS.

    We’re few of us burdened
    With riches or wealth.
    But come for the WRITERS’ THREADS,
    Stay for the HEALTH.

    I’m by no means a lawyer,
    Don’t know about torts;
    But I came for OBAMACARE,
    Stayed for the SPORTS.

    You may care not for music,
    Nor skull-fucking goats;
    But come for the FOOTBALL,
    And stay for the VOTES.

  270. 270
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Nope, it was the RTR dude who kept coming back over and over after I blacklisted him for a derogatory comment about an African American woman who was setting up the podium for an HRC rally. Without evidence he referred to that woman by an offensive term for transgender women.

  271. 271
    joel hanes says:

    @Dev Null:

    Really amazing that they thought this out 30 years before VMs became practical on desktops

    IBM VM technology was very mature already by 1985.
    IIRC, it started as an internal project, a testbed for testing multiple versions of complete operating systems without having to burn an entire mainframe for each. Customers demanded that VM/CMS become a product, so they could use it too: then they could buy one big machine and run two or three SW configurations simultaneously: MVS for accounting, something else for engineering, and the new MVS version that hadn’t yet passed workload qualification testing in a third.

    A little refinement, and one got the ability to move VMs around from machine to machine in a cluster.

  272. 272

    @Chris Johnson:

    Hopefully he can enjoy his later years as a guaranteed Yes vote for genuinely helpful Democratic legislation, and remembers the moments when he was people’s only hope.

    I hope so, because I’d hate for him to pull a Lieberman and Bernie has demonstrated he is a graceless and resentful loser. Still, there are levels and levels of ‘bad loser’ and joining the Republican caucus is probably a bridge too far.

  273. 273
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Jackie:

    Do you remember the episode where the head nurse yelled at her because she thought Sue’s slip (gasp!) was showing, but it turned out Sue (double gasp!!) wasn’t even wearing a slip, and what the head nurse was actually seeing was the lace curtain in front of which Sue was standing?

    Good times.

  274. 274
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    If there’s anyway I can help, just let me know, especially with Ivanka! Her lack of observant sincerity is as obvious to as her surgeries.

  275. 275
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Oh yeah, I remember him. Good riddance, and good for you for wielding the banhammer on him.

  276. 276
    Dev Null says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I fully agree that you learn by doing. Now show me were Dr. Wheeler has worked as a lawyer? Or an intelligence officer? Or a national security professional?

    Srsly, Adam: you’re moving the goalposts. No one, ever – not even hardly ever, has asserted that EW is a lawyer or intel officer or natsec professional.

    Perhaps I’m misremembering, but I seem to recall that you were complaining that EW claims to be a journalist …

    … but can’t be because she has no relevant tickets.

    AFAIK EW claims to be a journalist, and if JMartin and Shearer and MaggieH and their other colleagues at the Vichy Times can claim to be journalists (and yeah, they all have tickets), why not EW?

    Her reporting is far more skeptical and far less stenographical (is that a word?) than theirs.

    EW has not to my knowledge claimed to be a lawyer, an intel officer, or a natsec professional. Within the past few days she has explicitly said “I defer to bmaz” or whoever “on the legal aspects”.

    Yeah, you’re right: she’s missing the appropriate journamalism ticket; but for my money she is doing a better job as a journalist than the whole lot of Vichy Times journalists put together.

    You don’t like EW, fine … I don’t like Maggie H. or JMartin’s journamalism.

  277. 277
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: I’m still digesting it despite reading it this morning. As well as trying to figure out how to do it justice.

  278. 278
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Dev Null: RISC wasn’t software; it was hardware. The System R paper was 1976, but DB2 didn’t make it out until the 80s.

  279. 279
    Dev Null says:

    @joel hanes: You know more about VM history than I. My first acquaintance with VMs was not much earlier than VMware 1.0.

    Always glad to learn from people who know.

    Thanks!

  280. 280
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Florduh! Man alert.

  281. 281
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Chetan Murthy: I certainly don’t mean to run down the hardware folks. They stayed pretty decent all thru the 90s. It’s software that was a gaping chest wound.

  282. 282
    SectionH says:

    Ok, just in general terms of ppl who insist on recognition of their *credentials* – there was a certain SF author who insisted on being referred to as Dr. J**** P********, Ph.D. And he’d write to ConComs to that effect. But there was a certain East Coast SF convention which took his insistence entirely to heart. In the Program Book, pocket program, etc. Including the science panel he was on with Isaac Asimov and Rosalind Yalow (Noble winner…). Isaac’s and Rosalind’s name tents had their names. Dr PhD’s name tent had his full desired everything on it. Oh yes, everyone got the joke, except maybe…

  283. 283
    Steeplejack says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Man, the Hardy Boys were never that racy! What about Nancy Drew?

  284. 284
    Mary G says:

    These fucking fuckers:

    JUST IN: Veterans Affairs Dept. tells congressional staffers it won't repay underpaid GI Bill recipients, sources say. https://t.co/JvWKTWXL69— NBC Politics (@NBCPolitics) November 29, 2018

    Our shitty computer system shafted all these people of their earned benefits and forced some of them to drop out of school, and we assured congress last month that we would fix it, but it’s just too much trouble to deal with the little people.

    ETA: From NBC’s story linked in the tweet:

    While this decision could mean the agency is flouting the law because it would not provide the correct amount of money to student veterans as required by two sections of the Forever GI Bill, the VA told the congressional staffers that they have a legal justification that would allow them to move forward with this decision.

    They did not share that justification, however.

    Words fail me.

  285. 285
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking for?

    Sourcing for the statement in the Tweet. I found the case it would have come from, Klayman v Obama, but no references to that offensive statement the Tweeter is ascribing to Klayman.

    I’m just saying, anyone can put anything in a legalistic font in Photoshop and claim someone said something.

  286. 286
    Dev Null says:

    @Chetan Murthy: er, I didn’t say MP801 was software. I read the 801 papers when IBM launched the POWER architecture. Really amazing work. Amazing that IBM didn’t capitalize on it …

    … but no, it would have cannibalized mainframes. Oh well.

    [checks notes]

    Oh, I see. You said “software innovation”. I was thinking innovations.

    Sorry, my bad.

  287. 287
    Procopius says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    But watch out for the ones who insist on “Professor Doctor”.

    That jars. Have you ever noticed certain noun phrases are always in the same order? Actually, all noun phrases have an order in which the modifiers occur, age then color then material, etc., but there are others that are just so commonplace we only notice when the normal order is disrupted. “Husband and wife,” “brother and sister,” “knife, fork, and spoon.” My immediate feeling is that “Professor Doctor” is wrong, it should always be “Doctor Professor,” but I suspect I’ve been imprinted by the German usage.

  288. 288
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Dev Null: I stated as a fact that she has no formal journalistic training. Just as I stated for fact that she is not a lawyer and has no experience working in intelligence and/or national security. My point is that whether she is or is not legitimately a journalist, she has no business opining on the things she opines as she has no education, training, and/or experience to provide her with the expertise, whether learned in a classroom or through experience, to do so credibly. That’s my point.

  289. 289
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kraux Pas: The person who tweeted it, Cheri Jacobus, is reliable.

  290. 290
    Jackie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I read the entire series at least a dozen times 😍 Sue always got into pickles, yet managed to advance regardless. She always reminded me as a cross between Maria (Sound of Music) and Pippi Longstockings.

  291. 291
    joel hanes says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    she has no business opining on the things she opines

    This is true of most blog comments, most everything on twitter, and was true of most of Usenet.
    If that were the rubric, most of my Internet comments should never have been made.

  292. 292
    Dev Null says:

    @Mary G: I could have sworn I saw a statement from the VA only 2-3 days ago to the effect that the VA would make good on payment shortfalls to vets.

    WTF are they thinking? The VA screwed up and screwed vets, so suck it up, vets?

    I cannot believe that this will stand up in court. (uh, but IANAL) And the optics are horrible.

  293. 293
    SFAW says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Listen: if it makes you feel any better, I’m pretty sure you’re a better lawyer than I am.

    And I’ve never even been disbarred!

  294. 294
    SectionH says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s brilliant. And it’s yours, innit?

    Don’t remember it, but even the most dedicated lurker/occasional posters can miss things.

  295. 295
    Dev Null says:

    @joel hanes: This.

    And heck, many of my blog comments have been blatantly, risibly wrong…

    … the wrongness of which, unfortunately, didn’t become clear to me until the morning after.

  296. 296
    SectionH says:

    @Mary G: Jesus wept.

  297. 297
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I haven’t done anything truly stupid yet, but I’m here for a couple more days.

    Unrelated, if anyone hasn’t watched “stranger things” yet on Netflix, do so ASAP.

    Steve in DUVAL!!! who travels with an amazon fire stick so he can binge watch shows about being a kid in the eighties

  298. 298
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Procopius:
    i go to a teaching hospital for my medical care, and I’ve seen a few “Profesor Dr.”* nameplates on doors, followed by alphabet soup denoting further medical qualifications. Sometimes even a “Profesor Datuk Dr.” nameplate, if the person had a knighthood.

    *Malay spelling

  299. 299
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @joel hanes: You’re not on the front page doing it and claiming that you’re a subject matter expert who should be listened to. As well as doing cable news hits doing the same thing.

  300. 300
    Mary G says:

    @Dev Null: The managers did say they would pay, then sent flunkies to break that promise, and there’ll be hell to pay:

    I can't wait to see the @60Minutes episode with a panel of wounded Iraq and Afghanistan veterans telling America how they had to drop out of college because Trump's VA broke the law and refused to pay the GI Bill benefits they earned— Brandon Friedman (@BFriedmanDC) November 29, 2018

  301. 301
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Sorry, I do like to corroborate things. Especially my first time encountering a source.

  302. 302
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Formal qualifications in journalism don’t actually mean anything. They can get you a newspaper job, but after that you’re only as good as your last story.

  303. 303
    Dev Null says:

    @Procopius: There was a recent paper along these lines, wasn’t there? I don’t remember where I saw it, but something about ‘natural’ noun phrase order in English that non-native speakers have trouble reproducing? Mark Liberman’s blog, maybe?

  304. 304
    Suzanne says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I always thought insisting on “Doctor” was a sign of a self-absorbed blowhard, but lately encountered several cases of women Ph.D.s who seized on “Doctor” as a non-gendered title that reflected their accomplishments instead of their marital status, so I’ve been re-thinking that.

    A friend of mine who is a pediatrician has been fighting to be addressed by her title at work. Within her organization, all the male doctors are addressed as “Doctor” by the admin staff, HR, etc. and they keep addressing her by her first name. She doesn’t care about the title per se, but is deeply concerned that her accomplishments are devalued when she is not addressed by the same title as her mostly male peers.

    Architects don’t have fancy forms of address, but I do use all my letters after my name in my work email signature. DAMNIT. Those were expensive letters.

  305. 305
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Amir Khalid: Again, this is not the point.

    You ever notice that I don’t write about the technical aspects of North Korea’s nuclear program? Or cybersecurity? Even though I have, and likely will continue to, write about the national security implications. There’s a reason for that: I’m not qualified to write credibly on those subjects in terms of their technical specifics. I am qualified to write credibly on the national security implications.

  306. 306
    different-church-lady says:

    @joel hanes:

    If that were the rubric, most of my Internet comments should never have been made.

    Well?

  307. 307
    GregB says:

    It seems the pressure is getting Trump and to all of the gutter dwellers in Trumps orbit.

    They seem to be having a collective mental breakdown.

  308. 308
    Mary G says:

    @GregB: The guy that Roger Stone said was his intermediary with WikiLeaks is tweeting some interesting stuff at the president:

    What Roger Stone is confided in me about your depraved sexual behavior and your venal economic crimes is enough to put you in prison and then orange jumpsuit to match your hair for the rest of your fat life— Randy Credico (@Credico2016) November 29, 2018

    Stone has information about you going back 37 years and your sexual perversion and economic crimes .. stay tuned fatso— Randy Credico (@Credico2016) November 29, 2018

    Rodger Stone has told me stuff about you that leads me to believe that everything in the steele dossier is true in particular the golden showers— Randy Credico (@Credico2016) November 29, 2018

    ETA: Quoted the same tweet twice, hopefully now fixed.

  309. 309
    Dev Null says:

    @Mary G:

    The managers did say they would pay, then sent flunkies to break that promise

    Perhaps the Mar a Lago management of the VA. Sheesh.

    Love the army, screw the grunts. This admin in a nutshell.

    there’ll be hell to pay

    No doubt. Too bad for the vets who lose their homes, their jobs, even their lives waiting for this to be adjudicated in the court of public opinion. I’ve seen horror stories already…

  310. 310
    The Pale Scot says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    Bravo, I don’t sorta think/don’t think I saw that.

  311. 311
    joel hanes says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Well?

    I’d like to respond, but I have no credentials that say I’m qualified to do so.

    Adam, I hope you’re not taking me very seriously, because I’m not very serious in this.

  312. 312
    different-church-lady says:

    @joel hanes: I am of the opinion that all internet comments, by all parties, should not have been made.

  313. 313
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @joel hanes: I’m not. I’m just getting tired of the discussion. People should read whomever they want. They also need to weigh their source’s education and experience in regard to what those people are writing on. That’s it. That’s the point.

  314. 314
  315. 315
    SectionH says:

    @Suzanne: Wow. I hope she can slap some people upside the head, or go to a better environment. Cause, damn. If they were all first-name, cool, but damn.

    In all kinds of housing, just being female is a battle to get taken seriously. It’s when, You Get No More Money – and they get no more money – that you get taken seriously. Yeah, I AM the inspector, asshole, and your place doesn’t meet code…

  316. 316
    Ruckus says:

    @Dev Null:
    I don’t believe this is the only way the VA is now being run that will screw vets. The VA budget is not an insignificant line item each year. A fine place to cut isn’t it?
    And just think how many vets voted for the shitgibbon and his golf buddies to run the VA.
    And yes I know this is a hobby horse of mine, but this is my life on the line here, just like so many others have their lives on the line because of the shitgibbon and his shitty friends, all for reasons that escape me completely. Well they really don’t escape me, shitgibbon and his shitty friends are all major fucking assholes, who value how much money they can stuff in their pockets and how much hate they can hand out over any living being.

  317. 317
    Dev Null says:

    @joel hanes: Cool! Thanks!

  318. 318
  319. 319
    Dev Null says:

    @different-church-lady: please consider my comments not made. About anything and everything.

    I feel much better now, knowing that my comments are unmade.

    /snark

  320. 320
    Amir Khalid says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    Like a news site, but printed on paper.

  321. 321
    danielx says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    …she has no business opining on the things she opines as she has no education, training, and/or experience to provide her with the expertise, whether learned in a classroom or through experience, to do so credibly.

    Doth mine eyes deceive me?

    Adam, this is Balloon Juice. We do opine and all that shit all the time. Granted, nobody here is trying to make a living opining on stuff they know nothing about. Unless David Brooks has been trolling here, which I have LONG suspected.

  322. 322
    eemom says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You ever notice that I don’t write about the technical aspects of North Korea’s nuclear program? Or cybersecurity? Even though I have, and likely will continue to, write about the national security implications. There’s a reason for that: I’m not qualified to write credibly on those subjects in terms of their technical specifics. I am qualified to write credibly on the national security implications.

    In the name of the holy fuck, WHY is this so difficult for people to comprehend?? Expertise in something is far more than a degree in it. It’s LIVING it, like you said earlier.

    For example, in my own benighted profession, it didn’t used to be necessary to go to law school to pass the bar. In the old days, there was a thing where you could study and semi-practice under the supervision of an experienced lawyer. THAT made sense.

  323. 323
    different-church-lady says:

    @Dev Null: What great weights can be lifted from us if we only let go of them!

  324. 324
    GregB says:

    @Mary G:

    They are all like the man in Poe’s Telltale Heart. They are being driven insane by the truth of what they have done.

    Except for Stone. He’s a proud and unrepentant psychopath.

  325. 325
    SectionH says:

    @Suzanne: And you damn well should use all your letters whenever you want to. That’s a ferocious hard degree to earn.

  326. 326
    eemom says:

    @danielx:

    We do opine and all that shit all the time.

    But WE are not putting ourselves out as experts and getting published as such in Establishment media while pretending to be Anti-Establishment. Jesus weeping Christ on a skateboard.

  327. 327
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    My point is merely that a degree in journalism is neither a necessary prerequisite for entry into the profession, unlike a law or medical degree, nor a meaningful indicator of professional skills/ability. So there is no point in factoring it into your opinion of a journalist.

  328. 328
    Dev Null says:

    @Ruckus:

    The VA budget is not an insignificant line item each year. A fine place to cut isn’t it?

    Guessing not so much to cut as to privatize and skim. Cue line about Republicans being so sure that gummint doesn’t work that they’ll break gummint functions that work … or call it “vulture capitalism”.

    And just think how many vets voted for the shitgibbon and his golf buddies to run the VA.

    Someone recently posted a poll of vet approval / disapproval of Trump over time … mebbe Kevin Drum, but probably someone else, I just don’t remember. The poll showed roughly linear increase in disapproval and linear decrease in approval… he’s now at 50/50.

    this is my life on the line here, just like so many others have their lives on the line because of the shitgibbon and his shitty friends

    Yeah. :-(

    Ya got my sympathy … wish there were something we could all do in the short term… but I don’t know what…

  329. 329
    Dev Null says:

    @different-church-lady: I feel lighter already!

    Or as the circa 1950s commercial had it, “Francine! I’m renewed!” :-)

  330. 330
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @eemom: As was the case with medicine, the credentialing requirement for practicing law was an attempt to control the marketplace under the claim of professionalization.

    A good chunk of what I do is artisanry. While it is rooted in the education that gives me the alphabet soup after my name, it is the result of mentoring by a bunch of retired special operators – Green Berets, Civil Affairs, and Psychological Operators – combined with the actual experience of doing the work.

    I actually learned to be a chef the old way: I apprenticed to someone in a kitchen. I started out doing dishes and busing tables and doing prep work and worked my way up. I get the experiential point and its importance. People that work in intelligence and national security come from a wide variety of educational backgrounds. And that makes sense as you don’t want to narrow and artificially limit the pool of quality people working in those fields. The issue isn’t what Dr. Wheeler’s degree is in. I know intelligence officers with PhDs in English.

    And with that, I’m going to bed.

  331. 331
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I guess I’d have to ask, if she claims to be a journalist and doesn’t have any credentials, how is it that over the course of the last few years, she’s done a better job than most of the people with a degree?
    I’m sorry but I’ve seen way too many people without degrees who can run circles around a lot of people with degrees in all kinds of fields. And I’ve seen and I’d imagine many others could make the same claim just from the comments in this thread.
    I’m not knocking degrees and wholeheartedly agree that in some fields a degree is/should be mandatory to practice/work in it. And that the possibility is great that someone with a proper degree does know more about a field than someone without. But in many ways it’s experience and basic understanding that allows a person to understand a field, the degree just shows that you were supposed to have studied it.
    I know that you have several degrees and a lot of pride in knowing what you practice. I’m not saying that is in any way wrong, one is to be congratulated upon putting in the time and effort to learn and get recognized for that. But it is not the only way to be proficient in a lot of fields. It is in many the only way to practice in the field.

  332. 332

    @eemom:

    it didn’t used to be necessary to go to law school to pass the bar.

    Unless it’s been changed recently, that’s the case in California.

  333. 333
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    I’m surprised Time-Warner hasn’t sued the living fuck out of Klayman for besmirching the DC Comics Universe with his loathsome presence.

  334. 334

    @Ruckus: I don’t think that’s what Adam was getting at. He was referring to her experience writing about what she’s writing about.

  335. 335

    @Villago Delenda Est: …or Adobe suing him for such a bad Photoshop job.

  336. 336
    Dev Null says:

    @eemom:

    In the name of the holy fuck, WHY is this so difficult for people to comprehend??

    Possibly because it’s a statement that doesn’t hold true for many of us.

    Frex my degree is in a fairly specific STEM discipline.

    I worked my entire career – multiple careers, in a sense – in areas that are almost entirely disjoint from the discipline associated with my degree.

    Believe it or not, I did OK.

    What you are saying makes no sense to me – literally, zero sense – because according to you (if I understand you correctly) I should not have been able to make a living outside my narrow discipline…

    … put differently, I must have failed.

    Gosh, who knew? Wait til I tell the Spousal Unit and kids!

    And gosh, my many ex-colleagues with similar work records! Wait til I tell them! Believe me, they’ll be AMAZED!!!

    To think that they never knew!

    [shrugs] I agree with Adam: I’m tired of this.

    And like Adam, I’m going to bed.

  337. 337
    different-church-lady says:

    I have no formal training in being an asshole. I figured it out through trial and error.

    Mostly error.

  338. 338
    joel hanes says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m just getting tired of the discussion.

    PATIENT: Doctor, it hurts when I do *this*.
    MD: Then don’t do that.

    I’m going to presume to advise you, then, to simply ignore the topic. Refuse to be drawn in.

    From my viewpoint, this thread looks as if eemom trolled you, and you bit, and the rest of the thing fell out from that. If you’re sick of it, don’t bite, no matter how infuriating you find emptywheel at any particular moment.

    And now I’ll take my own advice, and permanently stifle on this topic.

    ‘night all.

  339. 339
    Dev Null says:

    @different-church-lady:

    I have no formal training in being an asshole. I figured it out through trial and error.

    Mostly error.

    Me, I like to think I’m still learning – if you’re not learning, you’re dead, amirite? – but it seems like every day someone tells me what a good job I’m doing…

    … being an asshole, I mean.

  340. 340

    @different-church-lady: Thing about assholes, everyone’s got one.

  341. 341
    different-church-lady says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: If they’re lucky, yeah.

  342. 342
    Ruckus says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    I get that. But she is better than a lot of people who make a lot of money as journalists with degrees. Said journalists write shit and sit back and pontificate as if they are special. Which they are anything but. Is it the degree or the person that is important? Sometimes the degree makes the person, but the person does the work. And as I acknowledged there are a number of professions that one has to have a degree in to practice in and get proficient. The most obvious is doctor. A 4 yr degree is required to advance to another 4 yrs of specialty study, followed by 1 or 2 yrs of internship followed by a residency of varying lengths to learn the ins and outs of a specific field, which is also often filled with cross study of other specialties.
    That’s a lot of work. I know, I started down that road.
    But my point is this. I’ve written/edited/published books. Several a year for a decade. They were not novels, they were professional sport rulebooks. I got paid to do this. I don’t have any kind of journalism degree. I actually only have a high school degree. So I practiced journalism without a degree, and if I say so myself I did rather well.
    I know of a man who was the production manager of a computer manufacturer, back in the mid 80s into the 90s. He had no degree. When I first met him, before I found out anything about him, after one sentence out of his mouth I thought he was a complete hick. Boy was I wrong. Found out that a computer system I’d bought, he’d been responsible for building. We became friends for a long time but his 4 pack a day habit caught up with him.

  343. 343
    Ruckus says:

    @different-church-lady:
    Mostly error.
    I thought that was exactly how one earned that degree.

  344. 344
    Vhh says:

    @different-church-lady: Prof, except in Germany, where it is Herr Prof Dr.

  345. 345
    Haroldo says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Thanks for the .org information. Donation made.

  346. 346
    Dev Null says:

    @Dev Null: To be a little clearer: I was trying to say (but my words could be read differently) that many of my ex-colleagues had careers like mine: they started in one area, they wound up in different areas.

    By Adam’s and eemom’s criteria (if I’m understanding them correctly, and I’m not sure I am, because their arguments just don’t make sense to me), all of these ex-colleagues must be shams or failures or whatever – certainly not credible to opine publicly on work in their non-ticket work areas – because (again) they don’t have the deep training or the ticket that would lend their work a gloss of respectability.

    Who knew that so many of my ex-colleagues were failures?

    I didn’t know that they were failures, for sure; and even if deep down inside themselves they knew or at least suspected that they were failures …

    … they sure were high-performing failures.

    I wish I had more of their high-performance failures in my career. /snark

    ‘nuf said. I’m not going to engage on this topic again. As best I can tell we’re talking past each other.

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