Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Second Time, As Farce

No surprise: The Thief-in-Chief’s “princess” acts as though the law doesn’t apply to her, because when has it ever?

Hot take: This news will change exactly zero opinions about the Trump Crime Family… but the NYTimes is (further) beclowning itself, because the suits responsible for assigning front-page headlines have decided they can’t back down now

Speaking of C.R.E.A.M…

Repub America! It’s not just a kleptocracy — it’s also a kakistocracy!

156 replies
  1. 1
    OzarkHillbilly says:


  2. 2
    satby says:

    Does Jeff Besos have enough money to buy FTNYT too? It’s time the entire management of that company was kicked to the curb.

  3. 3
  4. 4
    Corner Stone says:

    @satby: Bezos loses pocket change in a couch everyday that’s enough to buy the FTFNYT.

  5. 5
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: Moscow is missing it’s idiot.

  6. 6
    Corner Stone says:

    We’ll hear about this Ivanka story until about lunchtime. Then *pooof* just like Seyser Koze, it never existed.

  7. 7
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Following Anne’s Kakistocracy link above:

    “What fills me with doubt and dismay is the degradation of the moral tone. Is it or is it not a result of Democracy? Is ours a ‘government of the people by the people for the people,’ or a Kakistocracy rather, for the benefit of knaves at the cost of fools?”

    – James Russell Lowell

  8. 8
    NotMax says:

    Sadly, no surprise. Religiomorons.

    Anti-vaccination stronghold in North Carolina hit with state’s worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

    The percentage of children under 2 years old who haven’t received any vaccinations has quadrupled since 2001, according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention Source

  9. 9
    bystander says:

    On the moral tone, I was just thinking how much I wish we could go back to agreeing on certain norms. You don’t denigrate a veteran’s service. You never disparage the family of a fallen soldier. I can criticize the military but the President never does publicly. The daily assault is…well, why bother to tell this crew? I’m exhausted.

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: It’s those pox ridden illegal aliens bringing their foreign and exotic germs north and infecting our precious pure blooded children.

    Or so I’ve been told.

  11. 11
    NotMax says:

    Mystery squarely solved!

    Wombats, the chubby and beloved, short-legged marsupials native to Australia, are central to a biological mystery in the animal kingdom: How do they produce cube-shaped poop? Patricia Yang, a postdoctoral fellow in mechanical engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology, set out to investigate.
    “The first thing that drove me to this is that I have never seen anything this weird in biology. That was a mystery,” said Yang. “I didn’t even believe it was true at the beginning. I Googled it and saw a lot about cube-shaped wombat poop, but I was skeptical.” Source

    Large or small, earthshaking or mind-tickling, ain’t science grand?

  12. 12
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: I foresee an Ig Nobel Prize in Ms Yang’s very bright future.

  13. 13
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  14. 14
    NotMax says:

    Some here either do hunt deer, have in the past or know someone who does who might find this worth a mention. One for Ripley’s:

    A Kentucky hunter killed a buck that had another deer’s decomposing head still attached to its antlers. Source

    Note: Picture included at bottom of linked story might possibly be disturbing for some.

  15. 15
    raven says:

    @NotMax: Deer are big rats and need to be hunted and thinned.

  16. 16
    bjacques says:

    @NotMax: but when the wombat comes, he will find me gone. He’ll look for a place to s(h)it….

  17. 17
    satby says:

    So the hospital mass murder in Chicago was the direct outcome of a domestic violence situation. The shooter was there to murder his girlfriend, the other people were just collateral damage.

  18. 18
    Patricia Kayden says:

    So let’s see if the media goes after Ivanka with the zeal it went after Secretary Clinton. Looking forward to Democrats asking the FBI to investigate whether Ivanka shared or received classified information.

  19. 19
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @satby: And the beat goes on until the next mass shooting.

  20. 20
    Anne Laurie says:

    @NotMax: And the wombats’ poops are cube-shaped so that… they can build a ‘strongly scented’ wall of poop to warn other wombats away from their personal territories!

    I thought about figuring out a Trump-Wall joke, but on the other hand, I quite like wombats…

  21. 21
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: The Chicago Tribune says he was a good guy with a gun:

    The gunman, who sources say had a concealed carry license,

  22. 22
    JR says:

    Think back to that article you posted yesterday. The “conservatives” are hungry for this idiocy. There’s no equivalent demand on the left. That’s why you won’t see wall-to-wall coverage of the Ivanka stuff. That’s not to say that the Times shouldn’t exercise some journalistic integrity.

  23. 23
    Tony Jay says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    No chance. If they do decide to make it more than a one-day wonder you can bet your last cent that the thrust of any future story will be along the lines of –


    Republicans Blast Pelosi for “Pointless Show Trials”

    When it was a problem for Hillary Clinton Democrats cried foul. Now the Left’s tune has changed and the President’s daughter may pay the price…..

  24. 24
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @NotMax: I’m not buying that fish tale. It would take a looooonnnnnggggg time for a body to decay enough for the head to separate from the body just by the other deer pulling on it. That head is not near decayed enough to have reached that point. Also, the “surviving” deer would die from the exhaustion of thrashing around trying to free himself from the other.

    3rdly, deer do not get entangled while dancing cheek to cheek, which is what the picture shows.

  25. 25
    Immanentize says:

    @Tony Jay: I am afraid you are too right. This will happen on every issue. What if the Dems ask Trey Gowdy to act as their special investigator?

  26. 26
    debbie says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Hell, that better be Acosta’s next question to the president: “Sir, will you condemn your daughter the same way you condemned Hillary Clinton?”

  27. 27
    Immanentize says:

    Same thoughts here. It’s possible the buck was shot and fell on a decomposed deer some other Hunter left in the field?

  28. 28
    Immanentize says:

    Hello all! Cold and rainy today, which is supposed to turn to sunny and freezing by Thanksgiving. Can’t decide which I prefer….

  29. 29
    rikyrah says:

    Uh huh
    Uh huh 😒😒

    You don’t say:

    Black Voters Propelled Blue Wave, Study Finds

    https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/the-blue-wave-was-propelled-by-black-voters-survey-finds via @RollCall

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  31. 31
    rikyrah says:

    He also killed a police officer.
    So, has the NRA popped off about this?😡😡

  32. 32
    Baud says:

    Comey used personal email too. Lots of people do. The attack on Hillary was a hit job.

  33. 33
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Next year you will have a college freshman returning home for a Thanksgiving visit.

  34. 34
    JPL says:

    @rikyrah: Remember to stay in your lane.

  35. 35
  36. 36
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I suspect the dead buck had been shot earlier in the week but the hunter who shot it wasn’t able to track it. This hunter came across the carcass and thought, “That’s a nice rack, I wouldn’t mind hanging it on my wall. Too bad the guy couldn’t find it.” Then shot his own deer, which also had a rather impressive rack, and thought,

    “Heeeyyy…… I got an idea….”

  37. 37
    rikyrah says:

    Whocouldanode that the gun was legal?
    Uh huh
    Uh huh 😒😒

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @rikyrah: That cop should have stayed in his lane.

  39. 39
    debbie says:


    No less of a reason to make it a hit job on Ivanka.

  40. 40
    Lapassionara says:

    @Baud: Ditto this. And the MSM allows liars like David French to go on TV and claim that HRC had “top secret” information in her emails, while Ivanka did not, without correcting him. We are in the worst timeline.

    Good morning, everyone.

  41. 41
    CliosFanboy says:

    anybody ever see the two interlocked Moose NH has on display?? Saw it once. Cool and disturbing. I feel sorry for them. http://www.foreverlockedmoose.org/

  42. 42

    @JPL: Depends on how close the kiddo is; when I was in college, the kids that were from far away(east coast or Hawaii) stayed for Thanksgiving. Christmas, everyone left.

    ETA: I pretty much did the same thing in grad school, I stayed in Seattle for Thanksgiving, but headed back to TO for Christmas.

  43. 43
    debbie says:


    “I can make me an Internet sensation!”

  44. 44
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CliosFanboy: It’s rare but it does happen. And when it does, the death of both participants is the inevitable result.

  45. 45
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    The bad boys of Canadian Curling: ‘They were breaking brooms’: Olympic curler’s team kicked out for drunkenness

    Canadian curling lived up to its freewheeling, no-holds-barred reputation on Sunday as an Olympic champion’s team was kicked out of a tournament because they were “extremely drunk”.

    Ryan Fry, who won curling gold for Canada at the 2014 Winter Olympics, and his teammates Jamie Koe, Chris Schille, and DJ Kidby forfeited their final match at the Red Deer Curling Classic after complaints from opponents and fans.

    “They went out to curl and they were extremely drunk and breaking brooms and swearing and just unacceptable behaviour that nobody wants to watch or hear or listen to and it was just ‘enough was enough,’” facility manager Wade Thurber told CBC Sports.

    “There was some damage in the locker room and other teams complaining about their stuff being kicked around in the locker room. So at the end of the day, it was like ‘OK, that’s enough of this gong show.’ The committee for the bonspiel collectively decided that we needed to remove them from the spiel for this year and what happens down the road, I’m not sure yet.”

  46. 46
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Drunk curlers, who knew..

  47. 47
    JGabriel says:

    Anne Laurie @ Top:

    Repub America! It’s not just a kleptocracy — it’s also a kakistocracy!

    It’s a kleptokakistocracy!

  48. 48
    rikyrah says:

    Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) Tweeted:
    holy hell. Mike Pompeo reportedly hand-delivered a plan to Saudi King Salman and his son, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MbS) outlining a roadmap to help MbS shield himself from the fallout of the Jamal Khashoggi murder scandal.

    (h/t @AviAhvee)
    https://t.co/XPrFkYc1vt https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/1064718127903268864?s=17

  49. 49
    rikyrah says:

    It’s curling. Of course, they are drunk 🤭

  50. 50
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @JPL: being drunk while curling is required

  51. 51
    rikyrah says:

    Keep It Local: Why Understanding State Legislatures is an Essential Democratic Skill


  52. 52
    rikyrah says:

    Ben Wikler (@benwikler) Tweeted:
    Just learned about this tonight. It’s shocking. In 2007, a law took effect: if you worked in public services & made student loan payments on time for 10 years, you’d get loan forgiveness. In 2017, first wave of people became eligible. Guess what Trump did?
    https://t.co/XgRYUVdS8j https://twitter.com/benwikler/status/1064347647652388864?s=17

  53. 53
    rikyrah says:


    Ben Wikler (@benwikler) Tweeted:
    Out of 30,000 public service applicants, the Trump/Devos team forgave the student loans of only 96 people. That’s a 99.68% rejection rate. Can you imagine deciding 10y ago to take lower salary & work in public service, counting on loan forgiveness—only to get this rejection now? https://twitter.com/benwikler/status/1064355885751943170?s=17

  54. 54

    Ivanka’s crap just gets buried in a waterfall of crap so it’s hardly noticeable. Daddy uses an unsecured cell phone, for god’s sake.

  55. 55
    rikyrah says:


    Ben Wikler (@benwikler) Tweeted:
    A friend of mine, encouraged by the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, has been working in public interest jobs for years—and is now suddenly rethinking life plans. Right now, there are 550,000 student borrowers in the program. + who knows how many who’d planned to enroll. https://twitter.com/benwikler/status/1064356772146757632?s=17

  56. 56
    Suzanne says:

    These. People. Are. Trash.

    Just utter human garbage.
    If they were on fire, I wouldn’t piss them out.

    I might go troll some people on Facebook who were Deeply Concerned about national security and the public’ right to know in 2016 and rub their noses in it.

    I seem nice.

  57. 57
    Princess says:

    @NotMax: These anti-Vaxxers in NC are probably not religious morons. They may be using the religious exemption to avoid vaxxing but since this is a Waldorf School, they are mostly likely leftie crunchy anti-science types.

  58. 58
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    On GA Gov-elect Kemp’s transition team* are a couple of familiar names: former Congressman Bob Barr, and former Congressman/former HHS Secretary Tom Price.

    *(and, unless I miss my guess, future senior members of Kemp’s administration. Ugh.)

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @Suzanne: More power to you, but those people were all disingenuous in their prior outrage. They won’t care.

    The most pathetic people are the would-be Hillary voters who were influenced by the made-up controversy.

  60. 60
    Lounger says:

    @NotMax: This actually hit the Asheville Waldorf School. So the idiots in question would’ve most likely been well-heeled Jill Stein voters.

  61. 61
    Baud says:


    Dear Bernie or Busters, this is what Bust looks like.

  62. 62
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @rikyrah: That is devastating. I have friends who graduated the same time as I did (1998) and are still indebted for student loans. It’s a racket,

  63. 63
    JPL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Price supported him during his primary race, because they share the same values, I guess. Anti-gay is a priority.

  64. 64
    Immanentize says:

    @JPL: Trying to freak me out, huh?

  65. 65
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Democrats can investigate everything. They have two full years to do so.

  66. 66
    JPL says:

    @Baud: yup.. Former nude model to bring back class in the White House after that Princeton/Harvard grad destroyed it.
    I hate all of them. I think we need wombat cubes surrounding the white house until the trumps vacate.

  67. 67

    @Patricia Kayden: It’ll be like the labors of Hercules. Do you think the MSM will take the bait in the same way? I’m asking that straight and full of hope that scandal is irresistible.

  68. 68

    I have to go ride a stationary bike through France for a while. At least they’re letting me lift weights for the second half hour now. Back later.

  69. 69
    Nicole says:


    I might go troll some people on Facebook who were Deeply Concerned about national security and the public’ right to know in 2016 and rub their noses in it.

    Right wing media has already given them their go-to reply. It’s that Ivanka is not a government employee. I responded to one of them that that opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms, I never heard back. (That’s the problem with spoonfeeding talking points to people who are too dumb to understand what they’re saying.)

  70. 70
    zhena gogolia says:


    I am just seething with rage. Luckily I’m not on Facebook!

  71. 71
    zhena gogolia says:


    I had a person shouting “National security! National security!” at me after I calmly asked him exactly what Hillary Clinton had done wrong with respect to her e-mails.

  72. 72
    JPL says:

    @Nicole: Why are taxpayers paying for her assistants and travel costs then?

  73. 73
    Nicole says:

    @JPL: There are plenty of reasons Melania is a dumpster fire of a human being, but her having been photographed in the nude is not one of them. Let’s leave the casual misogyny to the Right, shall we?

  74. 74
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Well, thank goodness Barr will be there as a moderating influence.

  75. 75
    JPL says:

    @Nicole: I don’t think there is anything wrong with the way she chose to make a living, but when someone told me how much class she was bringing to the White House, I used it, sorry.

  76. 76
    vhh says:

    Hmm. I wonder if chants of “lock her up” will disappear from Trump rallies….

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Patricia Kayden: 2 full decades wouldn’t be enough.

  78. 78
    A Ghost To Most says:

    So are Canada Geese.

  79. 79
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Facts don’t matter to fascists; only power matters.

  80. 80
    danielx says:


    I wonder if chants of “lock her up” will disappear from Trump rallies….


    This has been another edition of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.

  81. 81
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Coming soon to an ocean near you: Fish gut powered cruise liners.

  82. 82
    Original Lee says:

    @NotMax: Thanks for this. I needed something real this morning.

  83. 83
    Tony Jay says:


    Well they could, following the old-fashioned Bipartisan principle whereby Democrats appoint Republicans to important positions and get betrayed at inconvenient times. That’s what the MSM would like and expect them to do…

    Or, in the spirit of the new normal, where norms, rules, traditions and even laws don’t matter so much no more, and in a climate where the Wave that put Democrats in a position of power would like some return on their investment of time, energy, money and enthusiasm, it might be an idea for Democrats in the House to investigate the living hell out of the Tang(erine) Dynasty’s terribly lax electronic communications policy and practices. And every time the Media raises a pearl-clutching yelp of outrage, throw them a nice, juicy bone from the fly-crowned mountain of meaty scandal they’re bound to uncover.

    That way lies evidence of treason and collusion, and you never know, the bean-counters over at Media Money Inc might even grow to like it.

    (Psssst. I think this may be exactly what they’re planning on doing anyway. Don’t let the GOP know.)

  84. 84
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    The price of bitcoin continued to plunge on Tuesday as it fell another 7% to $4,387, taking its losses to almost 30% in the past week.

  85. 85
    Original Lee says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Nowadays a lot of schools close the dorms so they can fumigate over the Thanksgiving break. So the from-away students tend to go home with townies.

  86. 86
    germy says:

    .@Ocasio2018 is a perfect example of why the Electoral College is so important.
    Without it, the people who voted for her would make decisions for of us. https://t.co/ojZ23vPMKV— John Cardillo (@johncardillo) November 19, 2018

    Ah yes, God forbid a diverse, working-class district (that more accurately represents modern America) actually have equal say in our democracy as your weird uncle with questionable racial beliefs who shares fake conspiracy memes on Facebook. https://t.co/1W6aUzDX7l
    — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@Ocasio2018) November 19, 2018

  87. 87
    germy says:


    Coming soon to an ocean near you: Fish gut powered cruise liners.

    And flocks of seagulls following every cruise because they’re enchanted by the exhaust.

  88. 88
    sherparick says:

    @danielx: After all she is still guilty of being Hillary. Imagine sarcasm front. Also, with Ivanka’s emails, we are about to see a classic illustration of IOKIYAR from not only Republicans, but all the usual suspects in MSM (Chris Cillzza for instance, who wrote endlessly on Hillary’s emails, has not even twitted about this story today.)

  89. 89
    pluky says:

    @NotMax: If this doesn’t win an Ignoble, nothing should!

  90. 90
    CindyH says:

    @NotMax: This was not a religious decision – they used the religious clause because that’s how they could get around the requirement to vaccinate their kids. These are affluent folks who buy into the vaccine nonsense – unfortunately, we all suffer as a result.

  91. 91
    rikyrah says:

    Federal judge: Trump ‘may not rewrite’ immigration laws through decree
    11/20/18 08:41 AM—Updated 11/20/18 08:54 AM

    By Steve Benen


    A federal judge barred the Trump administration on Monday from refusing asylum to immigrants who cross the southern border illegally.
    U.S. District Judge Jon S. Tigar issued a temporary restraining order after hearing arguments in San Francisco. The request was made by the American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Constitutional Rights, which quickly sued after President Donald Trump issued the ban this month in response to the caravans of migrants that have started to arrive at the U.S.-Mexico border.

    “Whatever the scope of the President’s authority, he may not rewrite the immigration laws to impose a condition that Congress has expressly forbidden,” Tigar, an Obama nominee, wrote in his restraining order.

    It’s the latest in a series of court failures for the Trump administration, especially on the issue of immigration. Judges have also rejected Trump’s executive order on “sanctuary cities” and his efforts to deny DACA protections to Dreamers, and in September, a federal court ordered the administration to end its “zero tolerance” policy that separated migrant parents and their children.

  92. 92
    sherparick says:

    @germy: Great. Also the President they love and worship cannot even get the name right for the town that burned down in a Congressional District he carried 56% to 36% in 2016. So we may be libtards, but they are simply morons.

  93. 93
    sherparick says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am playing the world’s tiniest violin for all the rich libertarian assholes who bought this electronic pet rock.

  94. 94
    geg6 says:


    this electronic pet rock


  95. 95
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Tigar, an Obama nominee,

    Fake Judge!

    @sherparick: You can’t, I got my hands on it first. ;-)

  96. 96
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @sherparick: The ones I feel the sorriest for are those who had $20,000 as their “sell” point. Awwwww, pobrecitos….

  97. 97
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @rikyrah: Thank you for posting. I was unaware of much of what this article discusses.

  98. 98
    rikyrah says:

    This was a really good segment, and very few, outside of Maddow, bring this to people’s attention.

    GOP gerrymandering: Democratic votes not matched by seats gained

    Rachel Maddow shows four states in which Democratic popular vote victories are not commensurate with representative legislative seats because Republican gerrymandering has tipped the playing field.

  99. 99
    Spanky says:


    Also, with Ivanka’s emails, we are about to see a classic illustration of IOKIYAR from not only Republicans, but all the usual suspects in MSM

    But you repeat yourself.

  100. 100
    CliosFanboy says:

    Speaking of “couldn’t happen to a nicer group”. Trump supporters investing in worthless Iraqi currency because they think trump will make it valuable.


  101. 101
    Kay says:

    Maybe she and her husband used personal email because they knew the hit on Hillary was purely political, and would never be enforced re: anyone else. And it isn’t, as they’ve seen, because they know Trump uses a cell phone that isn’t secure.

  102. 102
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @CindyH: They are members of the Church of God the Almighty for Fools and Little Children.

  103. 103
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Lounger: Isn’t Asheville a more or less liberal enclave? And Waldorf Schools have long been popular with those who know something about them. Their instructional methods have at times been suggested as models, esp for early education.

  104. 104
    Spanky says:

    @Kay: That would involve some critical thinking skills that has not been in evidence from either one of those snowflakes.

  105. 105
    Kay says:

    The reporter then turns the hit job into a tv series:

    Amy Chozick
    ‏Verified account
    Sep 17
    From the studio that brought you The West Wing, The Wire and Friends….comes Chasing Hillary! I love television and could not be more excited about Warner Bros developing my book into a TV drama…

    It never ends. There’s another tv drama hit job out about the Clintons our right now.

    They’ll release this one the day after Labor Day prior to the 2020 election.

  106. 106
    germy says:


    “Monetizing my hatred of Hillary” by Amy Chozick

  107. 107
    Miss Bianca says:

    @JGabriel: “The Kleptokakistrocrats!”

  108. 108
    different-church-lady says:




    “Hey, who else is ready for Happy Hour?”

  109. 109
    Kay says:


    You sort of idly wonder how long it can go on. 25 years? 50 years? Is it possible for Amy Chozick to make an entire career out of dishonest coverage of the Clintons like Maureen Dowd did? A second GENERATION?

  110. 110
    different-church-lady says:

    @rikyrah: Sorry, Rikyrah, but we have the next installment of “Let’s study the DNA of white rust-belt Trump voters while they eat breakfast in diners” ready for the presses…

  111. 111
    different-church-lady says:

    BTW, I’d like to congratulate Michelle Wolf for being the one to finally destroy Nerd Prom.

  112. 112
    Butter Emails!!! says:


    She was great, but I think the credit probably belongs to the current occupant of the White House. Of all our institutions, the White House Press Corp was outraced only by the Republican Party in prostrating itself before the golden bullshitter. The speed of the fall underlines how rotten the institution was to begin with.

  113. 113
    Kay says:


    In defense of Sarah Sanders! Who then went on to stage an elaborate, staged set-up of a reporter and pulled his pass.

    Smoky eye was funny, BTW. I myself got it immediately :)

  114. 114
    WaterGirl says:

    Steve Benen is now reporting that Trump is reportedly “afraid” to visit a combat zone because he fears people who want to kill him.

    My first thought: I would be afraid to visit a combat zone, too, but I am not the fucking president.
    Thought 2: It’s a good thing Barack Obama and family never had to worry about anything like that. Except for every single day.
    3: Trump and his lying, cheating, stealing, treasonous family need to be gone.
    4: Not to mention his entire administration. Plus the entire Republican party.

  115. 115
    germy says:

    Today's NYT story about @IvankaTrump' use of her personal email for official business is buried on p 13. pic.twitter.com/Elh3JUzBdY
    — Mark Elliott (@markmobility) November 20, 2018


  116. 116
    Butter Emails!!! says:


    It’s becoming difficult not to like Congresswoman Elect AOC, particularly given that she seems more level headed and knowledgeable about working in a coalition than my current shithead Representative who doesn’t have the excuse of being a freshman Congressperson and has a secure enough position that Pelosi bashing is not justified from a political calculus standpoint.

  117. 117
    WaterGirl says:

    @Kay: I will confess that I had never heard of smoky eye before that day, and I still have no idea what the reference to Sanders meant. I even googled it and still never really got it.

  118. 118
    germy says:

    @Butter Emails!!!: Yes, AOC has said she supports Pelosi.

  119. 119
    different-church-lady says:

    Josh Marshall has some thinks about Facebook:

    Only months ago, Facebook launched a new advertising campaign on its own behalf called “Here Together.” The point was to remind everybody what they liked about Facebook before it became synonymous with fake news, Russian information operations, facilitator of ethnic cleansings or semi-genocides and pervasive privacy violations.

    I thought that campaign was quite laughable. Basically, it was, “Here’s all the things you used to do before you became a Facebook addict, and we’re going to pretend we made social interaction possible instead of a resource to us to pillage.”

    For many of us the first experience with Facebook was a way you could keep in touch with people you might never have been in touch with again — friends from high school, college, different phases of your life you’d separated from because of a move or a change of a job. You get the idea. This was a real thing about Facebook, all the other shortcomings or schlockiness notwithstanding. Unsurprisingly, Facebook wanted to get back to that, or at least wanted to get back to people thinking of Facebook like that.

    That was always the Trojan Horse component of Facebook. For reasons I am still fascinated with but cannot figure out, some people could smell the subterfuge immediately, while a great deal of others bought in whole-hog.

    Facebook’s core problem is that it was a platform based on trust.

    Facebook’s core problem is that is a platform based on manipulation. Facebook tries to manipulate your behavior for their gain, and if the dark side of social behavior is the result, well too bad as long as your using Facebook. Operationally the “trust” component is no different than the way a confidence trickster uses it.

  120. 120
    Kay says:


    It’s an eye makeup technique. They’re funny all by themselves, just by definition.

    Smokey eyes exude a sense of power.
    And I absolutely love to acquire that. When it comes to a signature makeup look, smokey eyes is my go to. Of course, the right occasion and technique are quite important for the smokey eye. You can’t just wear a heavy black smokey eye to a wedding (unless it’s a goth-themed wedding like the one from 27 Dresses). There’s a time and place for everything. I remember back in high school I got my hands on a black eyeshadow. Not only did I wear it heavily during the day, but I didn’t even blend it!

  121. 121
    germy says:


    I will confess that I had never heard of smoky eye before that day, and I still have no idea what the reference to Sanders meant. I even googled it and still never really got it.

    When Huckabee first appeared as the official answerer of questions, she looked like a regular person (as regular as a Huckabee could look). Then Scaramooch made a comment about her appearance, and apparently trump watched her on TV, and decided she needed a makeover.

    After that, every appearance she had more and more makeup caked on. Mascara, lashes, eyeshadow, eyeliner… she looked like the makeup person from Fox had been deputized to transform her into trump’s idea of what a woman is supposed to look like (see: Melania).

    After Michelle Wolf’s joke about her makeup, I notice she’s toned it down and rebelled against the makeover. She probably yelled “Ya’ll makin’ me look like a harlot!”

  122. 122
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Steve Benen is now reporting that Trump is reportedly “afraid” to visit a combat zone because he fears people who want to kill him.

    I gotta call bunk on that one. He was just in California and I guarangawddamntee CA is just chock full of people who’d like to see him dead.

  123. 123
    different-church-lady says:

    @Kay: the thing that amazes me about that whole dust-up is that Wolf was basically calling Sanders a liar to her face but all the outrage was focused on the eye shadow part.

  124. 124
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: And destroyed the press conference:

    ACOSTA's press pass is officially back, the White House says … along with new formal rules for press conferences, including "a single question" per reporter (follow-ups at the president or press secretary's discretion)— Michael M. Grynbaum (@grynbaum) November 19, 2018

    They need to stop attending these Ministry of Propaganda shows.

  125. 125
    laura says:

    So all the hubbub about the first shady using a personal email account ijkfamily.com ignores what Jared may have done via back channels. She’s as grifty as her pap, but I suspect that theirs plenty of reach around to all manner of Qatar, SA, Eric Prince with Jared’s finger prints on it.

  126. 126
    Kay says:

    We’re on vacation this week in Los Angeles. We’re visiting my brother in law who is a building contractor with a giant house, but we’re not staying with him because he’s sort of a jerk. We’re staying at a tiny efficiency at the beach, but I’m making my 16 year old take the Hollywood tour with me today. I think he needs to ride around in an “open air bus” with his mom :)

    He’s a good sport but this is really testing the limits of his patience.

  127. 127
    Gin & Tonic says:


    you could keep in touch with people you might never have been in touch with again

    I may be different than most, but the people I’ve never been in touch with again fall into that category for a reason.

    It’s funny, Facebook got started when one of my kids was in college, in an Ivy that got on the bandwagon very early. First few years, if you recall, you needed an .edu e-mail address to sign up, which I had, so I could have registered. But my kids made it clear that that was not something they wanted me to do. By the time it opened up to everyone, it was clear to me I had no interest anyway. By now, my kids are at an age where having a parent there wouldn’t be an issue, yet they very seldom use FB themselves.

  128. 128
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Kay: It’s LA. Aren’t there beautiful women everywhere?

  129. 129
    cain says:


    Does Jeff Besos have enough money to buy FTNYT too? It’s time the entire management of that company was kicked to the curb.

    We really don’t want that asshole owning anything related to media. Cheap fuck.

  130. 130
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    He’s a good sport but this is really testing the limits of his patience.

    Job well done Kay.

  131. 131
    WaterGirl says:

    @germy: @Kay: Thanks, I finally get it! After your replies I googled what was actually said at the dinner and I saw a lovely display of a woman with one smoky eye and one regular eye, which also helped.

    Then, I found this:

    Emily Nussbaum

    Wow. The idea that MW’s joke “called out” Sander’s eye makeup is madness. She PRAISED her eye makeup—she said it was a “perfect smokey eye”—she just pointed out that it was made of the ashes of burned lies. Which it is! Both


  132. 132
    A Ghost To Most says:

    David Johnson, chairman of the Columbiana County (Ohio) GOP, posted images of the inferno Sunday with the message: “God’s Punishment to Liberal California.” Another message superimposed over a photo read: “Hell on Earth, brought to you by the liberals in California.”


  133. 133
    James E Powell says:


    We’re on vacation this week in Los Angeles.

    No meet-up?

  134. 134
    laura says:

    @A Ghost To Most: David Johnson can eat a bag of salted dicks.

  135. 135
    Kay says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    There are! But he’s spent the whole time texting photographs of scenic views to his girlfriend. We give him a long leash at home so he’s been boarding all over the beach..towns..whatever they are- by himself since we got here. He’s done fine. He’s found his way back to this odd little apartment which is sort of behind a giant beach house down an alley. Yesterday he went out with his paltry Taco Bell earnings on his debit card and ended up at the library- I think that’s all he can afford :)

  136. 136
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: He’s going to enjoy it even if he doesn’t tell you.

  137. 137
    different-church-lady says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I may be different than most, but the people I’ve never been in touch with again fall into that category for a reason.


    It still is amazing to me that people can say, “Oh, I didn’t have this person in my life and now because of this technology I do again!” I and I think, “Well, how much did this person mean to you if you let them leave your life in the first place?”

    Psychologically, I think two things are going on:

    * People have vastly different bar heights when it comes to applying the term “friend” to a given relationship. Some people use it for damn near everyone they know, and others (like me) reserve it for very few, with whom they have an active, socially intimate, in-person relationship. I have seen myself described (in-print, no less) as a “good friend” or a “close friend” by people I only know casually.

    * Zuckerberg’s true brilliance was in understanding that he could take this low-bar view and turn friendship itself into a commodity to be collected and hoarded. Facebook made friendship appear to be quantifiable, and the scoreboard was the hook. The users could hoard friends, and then FB could raid that resource.

    The whole thing stunk high-heaven from the very beginning, but apparently we Cassandras will remain unpopular for the rest of time.

  138. 138
    Yarrow says:


    For reasons I am still fascinated with but cannot figure out, some people could smell the subterfuge immediately, while a great deal of others bought in whole-hog.

    It’s fascinating to me too. I have never trusted Facebook but have had a hard time explaining that to people. It’s been kind of interesting to see events catch up with what I’ve been saying for a long time. I even know a few people who have deleted their accounts. Where are they going to go? MySpace? LOL.

  139. 139
    chris says:

    @different-church-lady: One of my Linux gurus way back when said roughly, Security nightmare, stay the fuck away!

    I’ve never missed it.

  140. 140
    different-church-lady says:

    @chris: But that’s the funny thing: it’s not just a technological security nightmare, it’s an emotional security nightmare! You’re basically inviting strangers to hack into your psychological OS.

  141. 141

    @Kay: Some day he’ll make you watch all 8 Fast and Furious movies.

  142. 142
    different-church-lady says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: There’s EIGHT?!?

    As in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 HOLY FUCK 8!???!!!

  143. 143
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @different-church-lady: I just recently went though a work-related nearly-mandatory touchy-feely kind of exercise (CliftonStrengths, for anyone who’s interested) and one of the sentences from my profile was “instinctively, you select your friends with great care.” So, yeah.

  144. 144
    Yarrow says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I saw you mention this the other day. I’m fascinated by it. Why is he making you watch them? Does he think they’re just that good? Some technological marvel he wants to dissect with the family? Fantastic storytelling he thinks you might like to incorporate into your writing? Why is he doing this?

  145. 145

    @different-church-lady: @Yarrow: Me three. I don’t see the need to be FB friends with the mother of school friend from grades 8-10. Nothing against her but I just don’t see the reason. That was an actual invite even though I am not on FB.

  146. 146
    different-church-lady says:

    @schrodingers_cat: All social media platforms encourage people to simply dump their entire contact list right into the platform. That’s how they “connect” you to others. Then they encourage the users to value numbers over quantity — the counter goes up and you get a dopamine hit (this is not my term, one of the principles used it last year in repentance), and you start going further and further down the list to collect more “friends” until one reaches the point of absurdity you describe — the monkey pushes the lever an ever-increasing number of times trying to get the next packet of cocaine to come out.

    Facebook does not care who your friends are, or what quality the relationship you have with those “friends” is. Facebook only cares that you become “friends” with as many people as possible, because that creates more of the resource they’re trying to mine.

  147. 147
    Kay says:

    FOX & FRIENDS: Mr governor-elect, what do you say to people who say you cheated by canceling 1.4 million people off voter rolls since 201?
    @BrianKempGA: “Well, you know, I’m moving on. I’m the governor-elect. The election has been certified…this is just political rhetoric.”

    Remember- The norm violation isn’t “canceling” 1.4 million voters, the norm violation is pointing it out.

    Norms are just understandings. Informal bargains. Protecting “the norm” without protecting the substantive issue behind the norm is obscene. It’s hollow. Makes a mockery of the norm. Kemp violated the public trust. The norm is gone. Insisting it still stands is just protecting the powerful.

    We need new and enforceable laws to protect these voters because the norm failed. It didn’t hold. It collapsed.

  148. 148
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @zhena gogolia: Came very close last year to rounding on a perfect stranger in line at a cafeteria who was mansplaining to his lunch companion what Hilary did wrong. This was on a military base where I was working as a civilian. It was when he said “She should know about how to handle classified material” that I almost rounded on him. “AND SO SHOULD YOU. AND IF YOU HAVE AN OUNCE OF BRAINS IN YOUR HEAD YOU KNOW DAMNED WELL THIS WAS A MINOR DATA SPILLAGE, AND YOU KNOW THAT DATA SPILLAGES ARE A ROUTINE ADMINISTRATIVE THING, WE’VE ALL BEEN BRIEFED ON THE ROUTINE PROCEDURES, AND YOU YOURSELF PROBABLY HAVE BEEN THE SOURCE OR VICTIM OF MORE THAN ONE. AND NOBODY IS SENDING YOU TO EMAIL JAIL.”

    But I didn’t. Just fumed quietly, ate my lunch, and shortly after (unconnected) retired from that world.

  149. 149
    Yarrow says:

    @Kay: Norms are collapsing all over during this administration. They’re weak spots anyway. They only work if everyone buys into them.

  150. 150
    Kay says:

    How great is it that the GOP governors-elect ran blatantly racist campaigns to get into power and they’re now demanding we all forget that and believe they will treat their black and Latino constituents equitably and fairly now that they won?

    The burden is on THEM. It’s not my job to give them legitimacy. They’ll have to earn it. They can’t ride on “norms” they themselves violated. This is what they count on- they can break all the rules and everyone else will follow the rules. They RELY on the norm police. The tactic doesn’t work without it.

  151. 151
    Kay says:


    If the norm was actually operative we wouldn’t be being lectured to observe it. It’s gone. Pass some laws to replace the norms they violated, or get screwed again. People like Kemp and the Trumps rely on exactly this- everyone else will follow the rules, which means they get an edge when they break them.

  152. 152
    jamey says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: They would have broken the Finnish team’s rakes if First Responders (R) hadn’t bravely stepped in.

  153. 153
    The Moar You Know says:

    David Johnson, chairman of the Columbiana County (Ohio) GOP, posted images of the inferno Sunday with the message: “God’s Punishment to Liberal California.” Another message superimposed over a photo read: “Hell on Earth, brought to you by the liberals in California.”

    @A Ghost To Most: Both the city of Paradise and Butte County are hard-right R+ Republican.

  154. 154
    jl says:

    Why is this suddenly big news now? There have been repeated reports of the WH Trumpsters, Trump family and associates, using private email accounts for official business since they entered office. And Trump’s use of an ordinary, unsecured cell phone. And from those past reports, it wasn’t all Ivanka discussing with friends and family what color outfit to wear, why daddy’s tie goes down to his knees, birthday cakes, and what kind of insulting jacket Melania should wear on a politically sensitive trip.

  155. 155
    ...now I try to be amused says:


    They need to stop attending these Ministry of Propaganda shows.

    You mean Minitru?

  156. 156
    Bonnie says:

    So much for the “liberal” bias of the mainstream media.

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