Wednesday Morning Open Thread: What I wouldn’t give for a large sock with horse manure in it. …

A pie full of horse manure!

Silver lining, such as it is: “Leader” McConnell had to run this in Fox, presumably because the Very Serious NYTimes turned it down. If only because they’ve got too many in-house BothSiderists already…

193 replies
  1. 1
    satby says:

    Post up for 1/2 an hour with no comments?
    Good morning everyone.

  2. 2
    geg6 says:

    Wow, I’ve never been to a morning thread where I’ve been one of the first comments. Morning all!

  3. 3
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: It just now showed up for me.

    Nancy should write an answer to Mitch. If she doesn’t, it’s an empty net goal for the turtle.

  4. 4
    NobodySpecial says:

    Morning everyone. All of my post varicose veins treatment restrictions officially eliminated today! Now I just have to start doing some planning I put off for the month plus I’ve been dealing with it. Having zero inspiration isn’t helping.

    Also, I miss AsianGrrlMN’s barn full of rusty farming implements, because they ALL need to be planted in Turtle’s backside.

  5. 5
    Ninedragonspot says:

    Good evening, one and all, from the opposite side of the globe. Stayed up too late last night watching the Big Chess Match (you think those baseball games are long?). and waiting for Santa Robert to deliver some indictments.

  6. 6
    satby says:

    @Ninedragonspot: We’re all waiting for that!

  7. 7
    satby says:

    Going to help out at the doctor’s office today. And there will be rending of garments and gnashing of teeth when I tell herself that I have to switch next Wednesday because the market will be open that day so I have to work there. The road to hell….

  8. 8
    oatler. says:

    Mitch, will you all hang together or hang separately? I’m good with either.

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    @satby: Good morning.

  10. 10
    Baud says:

    Mitch is trolling, of course, because he knows the media will run with it.

  11. 11
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    The road to hell….

    Gets shorter with each passing day.

  12. 12

    @satby: As OH noted, it seems to have been a stealth post.

  13. 13
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: He knows how to play the media. We could learn a thing or 2.

  14. 14
    SFAW says:


    Nancy should write an answer to Mitch.

    I was kinda hoping Michael Corleone would provide the answer. As in “I can give you my answer right now, Senator.” To be followed by Michael expressing a desire to his own “Chief of Staff” that he’s “got a hankerin’ for Turtle soup.”

  15. 15

    @OzarkHillbilly: The days are getting shorter as well.

  16. 16
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: the media are willing accomplices.

  17. 17
    Schlemazel says:

    And if she does, and mentions bipartisan cooperations a certain new Congresswoman and her friends will be at the soon to be Speakers throat. SIGH

  18. 18
    SFAW says:


    It just now showed up for me.

    It’s either because you’re on Central time, or because we’re off Daylight Saving Time, I’m a-guessin’.

    ETA: Or both.

  19. 19
    satby says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: @OzarkHillbilly: speaking of shorter days, it’s 18° out right now. January weather in mid-November. Last year it was 20° warmer.

    Edited to add, at least rain is predicted for CA soon.

  20. 20
    SFAW says:


    January weather in mid-November. Last year it was 20° warmer.

    Thus no Global Warming! Pwned!!!!1!!2!!

    Game, set, and 3-point sports kick, libtard! [Note: The preceding sports “metaphor” was brought to you by Sen. Little Marco Rubio]

  21. 21
    NotMax says:

    For the “Why didn’t anyone tell me about this before?” file, found Patriot on Amazon Prime (trailer). Initially gave it a go because saw that the lead actor is a guy I liked a lot in one my favorite Aussie series. Who, by the way, is a New Zealander and does a flawless American accent.

    How to describe it? A wanna-be the Coen brothers production. Fargo without (thus far, but can see it developing) the panache. Does it have flaws? You betcha. Queerly uneven pacing, what might be called passive aggressive editing, and a vexing tendency to jump over, under, around and through locales almost on a whim. Although with each episode they’re finding their footing more and more and ironing out the wrinkles.

    Not great TV, it’s still suitably watchable dark-edged tongue-in-cheek fare to pass the time. Definitely under the radar as it seems to have generated little buzz online. Second season just recently became available. Currently am halfway through the first.

  22. 22
    Schlemazel says:

    It was 2 here yesterday! Highs in the 20s over the long weekend. That is ‘January weather’. The good news is warmer is on your way. It is supposed to be in the 40s today

  23. 23

    @satby: Sure, as I commented downstairs… The rain will put out the fire, but will cause the Santa Monicas to flow into the Pacific.

  24. 24
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: the media are willing dupes.


  25. 25
    Platonailedit says:

    The white arrogance & entitlement shines through.

  26. 26
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I don’t think it’s possible. The media has no incentive to treat us fairly. And imagine if Nancy Pelosi had written a troll piece calling for Republicans to work with them. The usual suspects would yell even louder for her head.

  27. 27
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @SFAW: It happens from time to time. When it does, quite often the On the Road post shows up first, but when Anne’s AM open thread appears, it posts before the OtR post. Anne has explained how this happens. It’s all magic to me.

  28. 28
    satby says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: didn’t see that, sorry. In the morning I work backwards through the overnight posts. Sorry that one disaster’s end has the beginnings of a new disaster in it.

  29. 29
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: Right now we are at 16 heading for 14. Starting tonight, we are supposed to get our 3rd measurable snowfall of the year, all in about a weeks time. This time 3-6 inches (WOOT!). I remember cold Novembers but it’s been a while since we had one.

    Oh and we’re supposed to hit 54 on Friday.

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning,Everyone 😄😄😄

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    The media has no incentive to treat us fairly.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is the only incentive. What gets them $$$$$$$$$$$$? Clicks. DEMs need to learn to drive the news cycle just as Repubs do.

  32. 32

    @satby: I pretty much do the same in the morning here.

  33. 33

    @OzarkHillbilly: Not sure that will work, we have shame.

  34. 34
    Immanentize says:

    Good morning, All. I will be following Ozark on his funeral tour as I head to Upstate NY tomorrow for my Uncle’s funeral on Friday. He was a great Uncle and the last of my Dad’s generation. The good part is the Immp is coming with me and he will be my car prisoner 5 hours each way!

  35. 35
    SFAW says:


    It’s all magic to me.

    Coulda saved yourself a lot of extraneous typing, laddie.

  36. 36
    SFAW says:


    Condolences on your uncle’s passing. I find myself missing my relatives from that generation, more and more.

    I hope you and Immp have a good trip, watch out for snow in Uppah NY.

  37. 37
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: I remember this great cartoon during Obama’s administration. In panel one it had Obama facing Boehner and saying to B., “I’ll meet you half way.”. In the second frame, Boehner had taken a huge step backwards leaving ‘half way’ to end up where Boehner was standing before.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    And imagine if Nancy Pelosi had written a troll piece calling for Republicans to work with them. The usual suspects would yell even louder for her head.

    DEMs need to learn to fight fire with fire, all the time. Letting Repubs set the post midterms narrative is just stupid. DEMs can set the narrative too, they did it for the election. The media was echoing trump’s fear mongering on the caravan but voters wanted to hear about healthcare.

    Mitch got FOX to run his (and the RW webosphere will echo it ad nauseum). Nancy can damn sure find someone to run her answer, maybe not a place with the market capture of FOX but someone (and the LW webosphere can echo it ad nauseum) Then the media will write the predictable Both Sides piece, which is good, because people will be able to compare one side against the other.

  39. 39
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I had all my shame surgically removed.

  40. 40
    SFAW says:


    I had all my shame surgically removed.

    Was that covered by Obamacare?

  41. 41
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Immanentize: Sorry about the loss of your uncle. Safe travels.

    Glad to know I’m not the only parent who delights in road trips with the kiddo as captive audience. Well, not captive “audience,” exactly — I’m more interested in hearing what SHE has to say than in yapping away myself. We’ve had some of our best talks in the car.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  43. 43
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: The pace feels like it has accelerated. I expect a couple more in short order. The surviving wife from one 70 year pairing, and the surviving husband from another 70 year pairing, both of whom were very emotionally dependent upon their life mates. T-day, X-mas, and New Years are lined up and the deaths of older folks spike during and after the holidays.

  44. 44
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Dems didn’t set the media narrative in the election. They went around the media.

  45. 45
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @SFAW: I had it done 40 years ago and paid out of pocket for it. Under Obamacare it is now a pre-existing condition so it should be covered.

  46. 46
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: They fought back.

  47. 47
    Immanentize says:

    @Betty Cracker: That is my plan. Listen as often as he will talk (when his earbuds are out). He is a fine kid with sturdy ideas. I wish I knew him as a peer as well as a parent. Maybe in 20-30 years?

  48. 48
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Not funny but true: Canada registers sixfold increase in US citizens seeking asylum in 2017

    Tiroude and Gislyne are Haitians by birth and migrants by necessity. The couple’s 18-month-old daughter, however, was born in Fort Lauderdale, and – as an American by birth – she is part of a growing number of US citizens seeking refuge in Canada.

    In 2017, some 2,550 US citizens applied for asylum in Canada – an increase of more than sixfold from 2016 and the largest such number since at least 1994, according to data from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. Americans were the third largest contingent of asylum seekers in 2017, after Haitians and Nigerians. The vast majority are children born to Haitian parents, according to experts.

    “Most of the Americans applying for refugee status are the children of non-residents,” says Stéphane Handfield, a Montreal-based immigration lawyer. “They are US citizens because they were born there, but they come across the border with their parents because they don’t want to be separated.”

  49. 49
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Will Immp have his headphones with him? I sorry about your uncle and safe travels.

    Edit.. I see you answered my question above.

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: And will continue to do so.

  51. 51
    satby says:

    @Immanentize: @OzarkHillbilly: Condolences to you both on the loss of your elder relatives. There are none left from my parents generation in my family on both sides, and several cousins have predeceased me, all younger than me. Every funeral is a remembrance of the other ones.

  52. 52
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Immanentize: Yeah, it’ll probably take a while. Once I reached adulthood, my mom and I had a good relationship and enjoyed spending time together, but I don’t think we had a true peer relationship until I reached my 30s and she her 50s. I’m not sure why that was the case, but it was. Maybe it takes that long to let go of old childhood baggage or something.

  53. 53
    JGabriel says:

    Mitch McConnell via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    My latest Op-Ed: Will Dems work with us, or simply put partisan politics ahead of the country?

    What I want to hear from Nancy and Chuck:

    We commit to treating our Republican colleagues with all the bipartisan respect and consideration they’ve given President Obama, Merrick Garland, and Democrats in general, while Mitch McConnell led the Senate.

    Let’s see the wingnuts bitch about that response.

  54. 54
    NotMax says:

    @Betty Cracker

    For some, letting go the childhood baggage would produce a thud heard ’round the world.


  55. 55
    satby says:


    I wish I knew him as a peer as well as a parent. Maybe in 20-30 years?

    won’t be that long! My kids became enjoyable adult companions by their late twenties though we always had pretty good talks.

  56. 56
    debbie says:


    Stand tough! Don’t give her an inch!

  57. 57
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker: @Immanentize: This past Saturday me eldest and I spent the day looking for a campsite I could set up our pop-up on so I could fix the traditional chili and corn bread thanksgiving feast at the midpoint of his and his friends traditional T-Day wkend backpack trip on a section of the Ozark Trail (they do a new section each year) We talked about everything from trump to rump (roasts) to my next grandchild he and his wife are trying for ( to which news I reacted to not at all). Had lunch at a secluded graveyard filled with the names that grace that part of the Ozarks, lots of Goggins and Bells, their namesake mountains rising up above the graveyard.

    It helps that my sons actually like me and want to spend time with me. I wish my youngest was closer.

  58. 58
    satby says:

    @debbie: well, she switched to Wednesday and it’s my bad that I didn’t know the market would be open then. I don’t anticipate a lot of trouble.

  59. 59
    Another Scott says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: My reaction to Mitch’s piece is “Meh”.

    Nancy is in “The Other Body” so she has no reason to answer him.

    Chuck is in the minority in the Senate, so he has no reason to answer him.

    It’s a 15 minute news story unless we do what he wants and agonize over it. We should let it go and keep our eyes on the prize. Getting distracted by what the GOP wants to talk about isn’t the way to push our agenda.

    My $0.02.

    Good morning, everyone!


  60. 60
    JGabriel says:


    peaking of shorter days, it’s 18° out right now. January weather in mid-November. Last year it was 20° warmer.

    Or, as we oldsters middle-agers like to put it: November weather in mid-November, instead of September weather in mid-November.

  61. 61
    NotMax says:


    Don’t overdo things with that arm. Let the yutes do the heavy lifting.

  62. 62
    debbie says:


    My favorite aunt died last year. Pretty much the last of her generation in our family. It’s weird that I and my cousins now feel like children without our guiding rudders.

  63. 63
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: My mother’s and father’s brothers and sisters are all gone. Yesterday’s was the father of a good friend. A few weeks ago the mother of my brother-in-law. I bear witness.

  64. 64
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe it takes that long to let go of old childhood baggage or something.

    The first step is the parent has to stop parenting. Then slowly but surely the child stops being a child as they become more secure in your acceptance of them as an adult in their own right. It’s hard, and it takes a while. With some it never happens. It didn’t really come to fruition for us until the last few years, and I stopped parenting over 10 yrs ago.

  65. 65
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Another Scott:

    My reaction to Mitch’s piece is “Meh”.

    Nancy is in “The Other Body” so she has no reason to answer him.

    Those are the DEMs he thinks need to become *bipartisan* with him. He can, and will, continue to ignore the DEMs in the Senate whenever and however it suits him. He can’t ignore the new DEM majority in the House. I’m not worried about Nancy, she will have him for lunch.

  66. 66
    satby says:

    @debbie: @OzarkHillbilly: what I miss most is the stories, and the connection to generations before them.

  67. 67
    raven says:

    @Immanentize: Aw sorry, it’s been nearly a decade since the last of our parents died.

  68. 68
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: The stories…. When I was a kid I would sit and listen to them tell stories for hours.

  69. 69
    Jerry says:

    It’s times like these that make realize that we are letting this whole “Cocaine Mitch” gift slip through our fingers. Please, if you do the twitter thing, always call him Cocaine Mitch if you are engaging him on that platform.

  70. 70
    Betty Cracker says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: True. My sister and I managed that transition with our mom, but our brother never did. They had a close relationship, but it was never a peer relationship.

  71. 71
    Butter Emails!!! says:


    It’s times like these that make realize that we are letting this whole “Cocaine Mitch” gift slip through our fingers. Please, if you do the twitter thing, always call him Cocaine Mitch if you are engaging him on that platform.

    I’m pretty certain that turtles make better soup.

  72. 72
    Ken says:

    @Jerry: Will that shift the Google search algorithm, like with “Santorum”?

  73. 73
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @satby: On Thanksgiving a few years back my nephew announced that, with all of the older generation deceased, I was officially the oldest person in the family. It’s just a good thng there was wine.

  74. 74
    Kay says:

    Kevin Robillard
    ‏Verified account
    Nov 12
    Senate Republicans entered this cycle with 52 seats, and the best political map in a generation.
    At best, they’re going to end up with 53 seats.
    Gigantic missed opportunity. They could’ve locked Democrats out of the Senate for a political generation.

  75. 75
    oldgold says:

    I think you can treat your children as accomplished adults and continue to parent.

  76. 76
    Tata says:

    Along with elderly family members, our elderly co-workers unnerve us with their frailty. Quite a few of mine retired recently. Another has been in the hospital since Sunday night. She often says to me, “When you get old, you fall apart,” leading me to conclude this might be the most together I ever am.

    Sheesh! Thought I had time to practice.

  77. 77
    Immanentize says:

    And not only was there pick up miniscule compared to what it could have been (I remember early 217 talk of a 60 plus Republican Senate!) The difference in terms of actual power is meaningless. I guess with 53 instead of 52, they could have destroyed Obamacare, but the reconciliation process option is now off the table.

  78. 78
    Baud says:


    Here’s my tiny violin playing a sad tune.


  79. 79
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: That is excellent news. Even better, the Republicans seem to think they scored a huge victory, so they won’t change the game plan.

  80. 80
    Ken says:

    @Immanentize: They still have the lame duck session, but IIRC there’s another government shutdown in December that should keep them busy. Then again they might use that as an excuse to try to push through their cuts in Social Security and Medicare.

  81. 81
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @oldgold: What is the central tenet of parenting? Protecting the child. A child will never grow up if the parent is constantly trying to protect them, especially from themselves.

  82. 82
    Baud says:

    @Ken: It would need 60 votes, no? And Pelosi would just spend the next two years passing bills to restore the cuts, leading up to the 2020 election.

  83. 83
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Ken: They just lost an election. I’m not sure they want to lose their heads too.

  84. 84
    Elizabelle says:

    Good morning, jackals. LOL re McConnell’s op ed. Leads me into my pet peeve: it is not just liberals who see through that one.

    WaPost: Mitch McConnell wrote an op-ed calling for bipartisanship, and people are not having it

    At least in the headline we’re “people.” In the article, it’s primarily “liberals” who are up in arms, but I actually think it’s anyone who has been paying attention to recent years.

    I do like this response to McConnell:

    “Dude, you are in my lifetime one of the most zero-sum partisans I’ve ever witnessed in politics. That’s not something to be proud of. It’s the reason why Congress is so dysfunctional.”

    It’s true. McConnell broke the Senate. And it’s not just “liberals” that can see that.

  85. 85
    rikyrah says:


    Safe travels for you and Little Imma

  86. 86
    chris says:

    @Ninedragonspot: Santa Robert! So glad I didn’t have a mouthful of coffee when I read that. I really hope the indictment truck is loaded and ready to roll.

  87. 87
    Elizabelle says:


    Good morning. Great plans for the chili and cornbread holiday meal for hikers.

    And, re parenting: yep, it’s crucial to do the protecting, to a degree, without smothering and undermining the child’s sense of competence and responsibility. And stepping back needs to happen way before adulthood.

  88. 88
    rikyrah says:


    My favorite aunt died last year. Pretty much the last of her generation in our family. It’s weird that I and my cousins now feel like children without our guiding rudders.

    I know what you mean. My mother’s last sibling, my Aunt, died a little over a year ago. It just seems strange; my cousins and I are now the ‘ Elder’ generation. Just doesn’t seem right. Look at old family reunion pictures, when all 7 of them were still alive, it just seems strange that all of them are gone.

  89. 89
    rikyrah says:


    but the reconciliation process option is now off the table.

    Why is reconciliation off the table?

  90. 90
    Immanentize says:

    @rikyrah: Reconciliation is off the table because it requires complete coordination between the House and the Senate. That seems unlikely!

  91. 91
    Elizabelle says:

    @rikyrah: The last cousin of my father’s generation died in August 2017; meeting up for the funeral turned into a Big Chill week plus for his many daughters and a few of us cousins. Mostly women. It was one of the best times ever in recent years.

  92. 92
    Sab says:

    Is anyone here reading Michelle Obama’s book?

  93. 93
    germy says:

    @Sab: Not yet, but we’ve been enjoying her interviews.

  94. 94
    germy says:

    @rikyrah: Here’s something Dorothy Parker said when she realized most of her oldest friends were gone: “People die. Lord, how people die.”

  95. 95
    Elizabelle says:

    @Sab: I think lamh is reading Michelle’s book.

  96. 96
    H.E.Wolf says:

    Re-posting from last night’s thread: a corrected list of Balloon Juice winning candidates thus far. (I fixed 3 typos – thank you to the proofreading squad!)

    [1st Balloon Juice group]
    Colin Allred TX-32
    Cindy Axne IA-03
    Sean Casten IL-06
    Angie Craig MN-02
    Jason Crow CO-06
    Sharice Davids KS-03
    Antonio Delgado NY-19
    Abby Finkenauer IA-01
    Josh Harder CA-10
    Katie Hill CA-25
    Ann Kirkpatrick AZ-02
    Conor Lamb PA-17
    Mike Levin CA-49
    Elaine Luria VA-02
    Tom Malinowski NJ-07
    Lizzie Pannill Fletcher TX-07
    Dean Phillips MN 03
    Harley Rouda CA-48
    Kim Schrier WA-08
    Mikie Sherrill NJ-11
    Elissa Slotkin MI-08
    Abigail Spanberger VA-07
    Haley Stevens MI-11
    Xochitl Torres Small NM-02
    Jennifer Wexton VA-10
    Susan Wild PA-07

    [2nd Balloon Juice group]
    Jahana Hayes CT-05
    Lucy McBath GA-06
    Greg Stanton AZ-09
    Lauren Underwood IL-14
    (Antonio Delgado & Kim Schrier were in both 1st and 2nd group)

    [3rd Balloon Juice group]
    Joe Cunningham SC-01
    Kendra Horn OK-05

    * * * * * *
    Balloon Juice-supported candidates who might possibly still win, including a couple of very unlikely ones:

    [1st group]
    Gil Cisneros CA-39
    Paul Davis KS-02
    Dan McCready NC-09
    Katie Porter CA-45

    [2nd group]
    Carolyn Bourdeaux GA-07
    Tedra Cobb NY-21
    Dan Feehan MN-01
    Joseph Kopser TX-21
    Ben McAdams UT-04
    Nate McMurray NY-27
    Gina Ortiz Jones TX-23

    [3rd group]
    Kara Eastman NE-02

    * * * * *
    We helped a lot of good candidates into power. Congratulations to us, to them, and to the USA for its improved representation in Congress.

  97. 97
    germy says:

    Georgia Legislator, Arrested At Work, Says She Was ‘Singled Out As A Black Female Senator’

    One of Williams’ white male colleagues, state Rep. David Dreyer (D-Atlanta), went to the same protest with Williams for the same reason and was not arrested. He stood outside the jail after her arrest and spoke out about Williams’ unfair treatment by Capitol police.

    Dreyer said he went down to the Capitol about the same time as Williams, “but for some reason, Sen. Williams was treated differently than I was treated.”

  98. 98
    germy says:

    Wow. One day before the Federalist Society's annual convention, longtime member George Conway (@gtconway3d) has announced the formation of Checks and Balances—a new group of conservative lawyers who believe Trump is undermining the rule of law.— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) November 14, 2018

  99. 99
    Frankensteinbeck says:

    Not true. The media regularly goes with supporting Republicans over $$$. Here is a blatant example: The 2016 election. Trump was a gold mine of scandal. A GOLD mine. Juicy salacious stuff, sex and the mafia and racism and dramatic financial misdeeds. Emails is a dull story that barely moves. The media obsessed over emails while largely pretending Trump had no past. They abandoned clicks and ad revenue to flog the narrative they wanted. They did it with Obama, trying to gin up controversies over issues as bland as what he was wearing.

    Reconciliation is off the table because there has to be a bill to attach it to. Once a congress there’s a free shot to use it because of the budget. Otherwise it requires breaking a filibuster to pass a bill of a kind that Reconciliation can be applied to. Mitch used up this year’s budget Reconciliation for tax cuts. Next year’s would have to get through Pelosi.

  100. 100
    VOR says:

    @Immanentize: The difference with 53 votes in the senate vs. 52 is that now Republicans can allow both Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins to go against the Party on the really stinky votes. More Kabuki, in other words.

  101. 101
    Kay says:


    Not true. The media regularly goes with supporting Republicans over $$$. Here is a blatant example: The 2016 election. Trump was a gold mine of scandal. A GOLD mine. Juicy salacious stuff, sex and the mafia and racism and dramatic financial misdeeds. Emails is a dull story that barely moves

    This is true. There’s exit polling where people said they knew the caravan story was a cynical election season ploy and they wanted attention paid to substantive things like health care and wages. They got the caravan jammed down their throat. They’re not even serving their (supposed) audience.

    There’s something wrong with the industry. Just look at the pay scale- the celebrities make tens of millions of dollars and state reporters here are paid about 15 dollars an hour- that’s if they’re actually hired as “real” employees (W-2)- often they’re not.

  102. 102
    Mikeindublin says:

    “Eat a dick” replied Nancy

  103. 103

    @Kay: @Frankensteinbeck: Word. Media pushes R narratives. They are Rs or R enablers.
    Ocasio-Cortez’s stunt yesterday gave both WashPost and NYT an opportunity to revive the Ds in disarray meme. Well done BS sis, you have made Bernie proud.

  104. 104
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kay: Yeah. I want Big Infotainment masquerading as News gone, gone. They are harming us with their lack of seriousness.

    Jeff Zucker and Andrew Lack and the rest of them — gone. NBC leads the pack in being awful.

  105. 105
    Skepticat says:

    Karma, bitch, er, Mitch.

  106. 106
    oldgold says:


    In my opinion there are a number of important aspects to parenting. Most, to some degree, continue through life. And, affording protection, done in an appropriate manner, is one of these.

  107. 107
    Yarrow says:

    What a melancholy thread for a morning thread. Ugh.

    @Kay: Just money isn’t enough of an explanation for why the media does this sort of thing. I used to think it was. It is not. Look at the top level people running the places and how they may be compromised. We learned about Les Moonves and his sexual assault issues. He is not alone in that regard and there will be other people with other things they want to keep hidden. Those things are leverage to get those in charge to run certain stories and spike other stories.

  108. 108


    They’re not even serving their (supposed) audience.

    My belief is that it’s a particular social bubble. The national news is (mostly) not consciously trying to be Republican friendly. They’re covering the topics they think are exciting. They’re piss-themselves-scared of brown people, and they hate Hillary Clinton with a crawling hunger to catch her at something, anything, so it was obvious to them that these were great stories to flog whenever Republicans gave them an excuse. Health care, policy of any kind, this stuff bores them to tears, so they avoid it. As bullshitters themselves, they love listening to Republicans lie, and they agree with most Republican framing so they use it. They might just chase other narratives if they thought it was a better story, but their heads are so far up their own asses they actually cannot imagine that the rest of the public might not share their prejudices. That also would explain why it’s only a strong lean, not a monolithic, unified bias, and why it has been gradually moving during the Age Of Trump as he chips away at their prejudices with his obviousness.

    There is one huge counterargument: The Ebola scare. (I believe that was the 2014 election?) They didn’t just eat up Republican framing and stories, they obsessed over it on their own accord, and then dropped it like a rock the moment the election was over. I haven’t seen anything that obvious before or since, though. The Caravan is nothing in comparison.

    EDIT – @Yarrow:

    We learned about Les Moonves and his sexual assault issues.

    Republicans are the party of sexual predators. I think the people with blackmailable scandals don’t need to be pressured. They like Republicans and like Republican framing on everything, and Democrats are the party of nags and shrews and wimps.

  109. 109
    opiejeanne says:

    @Gelfling 545: I still have several older cousins left so that won’t be me for a while yet, but my husband and I are among the remaining generation, all the parents and aunts and uncles are gone. My husband’s great aunt two years ago at the ripe old age of 100.

    It feels strange to me.

  110. 110
    Yarrow says:

    @Elizabelle: I saw somewhere on Twitter yesterday but can’t find it now that CNN is now mentioning when a pundit has an NDA with Trump. It’s a small step but at least it’s in the right direction.

  111. 111
    geg6 says:


    Exactly what I absolutely knew would happen. How much substantive about climate change in those Dems in disarray stories? Arrrrrrrgh! Why does anyone trust a Berner? Ever?

  112. 112
    tamiasmin says:

    Horse manure tends to be rather solid and coherent. I think you’re better off with a nice fresh, squishy cow patty.

  113. 113
    Kay says:


    I think they cover the business of politics. They cover that sector. If you look at them as like the reporters who cover the automotive industry it makes more sense. New products, ad campaigns, management shake-ups. If you want to know how the car is actually engineered or runs you read something else. If you’re buying a car you don’t read the WSJ coverage of the auto industry, you read it if you’re in that industry- and its the same for voters and political media. It isn’t for them. It’s that simple.

  114. 114
    Elizabelle says:

    @Yarrow: that’s good.

  115. 115
    opiejeanne says:

    @H.E.Wolf: Yay! Kim Schrier! That district has had a Republican forever for some odd reason, so glad we flipped it. She’s in the adjacent Congressional district, so close I could walk through the woods across the street and be in her district..

  116. 116
    Tenar Arha says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Here’s the thing with that though. I would like to kill that myth with fire too, but most of the media loves it. They even love whacking at Clinton so much, they’re still talking about her running in 2020. The mythology of Democrats in disarray is still so powerful within the media that they obviously blew the story right under their noses of a Democratic blowout & made themselves look like idiots again.

    So I’m not postulating nth-dimensional chess moves here, but do you think that the policy idea & catchphrase “Green New Deal” would have gotten any press at all if Ocasio-Cortez or Pelosi by themselves brought it up? Because I don’t. Honestly after reading the statements put out by OC & Pelosi it felt more like they were a mutual admiration society, & kinda undercut the “fight fight” coverage too.

    Anyway, while I don’t believe yesterday’s (?) demonstration was a cynical calculated ploy, I do believe both women took advantage of the fact that the media is following them like a hawks hoping for stumbles to bring attention to their issues. (I think Pelosi is poised enough & perfectly okay with Ocasio-Cortez being who she is as a young leader, who’ll probably get better at using the microphone that the media keeps giving her bc she’s young, while she brings attention to issues that matter to the young. Ex. like the cost of moving).

    /two cents

  117. 117
    CindyH says:

    @Sab: just received my hardcover copy and audio copy – I am going to listen to it on Thanksgiving when I drive from NC to PA – can’t wait!

  118. 118
    ruemara says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Everything you say makes sense if the reason why the media supports conservatives was messaging. That’s not why. Every bomb thrower who wasn’t a black woman, turned out to be worthless to fixing that and largely imploded on their own issues. The media worships conservatives because they want to. That’s just it

  119. 119
    WaterGirl says:

    Table of Contents from the Maryland lawsuit. Wow, who knew that your table of contents could make your entire case for you:

    Page FACTUAL BACKGROUND…………………………………………………………………………………………… 1


    ARGUMENT …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………. 7


    A. By Statute, the Deputy Attorney General Is the Acting Attorney General…………… 8

    B. The Department of Justice’s Contrary Statutory Interpretation Lacks Merit. …….. 13

    C. The Constitution Requires That the Acting Attorney General be a Senate- Confirmed Official…………………………………………………………………………………… 22


    THE CONSTITUTION……………………………………………………………………………………………….31

    CONCLUSION…………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. 33

  120. 120
    WaterGirl says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I think Nancy Pelosi should make / publish a statement that thanks the tuttle for his input and states very clearly that the Ds will follow the example of the republicans for these past few years and will absolutely show the same bipartisanship that was displayed by the Rs.

    For the not tuned in, Ds will get credit for apparent bipartisanship. For anyone tuned in, D or R, they will know the score.

    edit: i see Gabriel got there first!

  121. 121
    Kay says:

    I’m really pleased voting rights are a top-tier issue for Democrats. Justice Roberts was wrong. Turns out, we need the Voting Rights Act. It’s s shame we have to go through this battle again. It’s hard to make progress when we have to do the same work over and over and over again.

    I literally cannot imagine the arrogance it takes for one white guy to announce that he has decided that tens of millions of AA’s who lived this battle were wrong, and they don’t “need” federal protections for voting rights. He erased all their work and sacrifice without a second thought- because the privileged white guy from suburban Indiana knows more about black people and voting rights than an entire generation of black elected leaders. Just let that sink in- the arrogance of that. Gave their LIVES and Justice Roberts decided they were all wrong and he should correct their error.

  122. 122
    Mike in DC says:

    @WaterGirl: Well, normally, appellate briefs do lay out the argument in the TOC and titles. But it’s not done as often in regular court complaints.

  123. 123
    Kay says:

    Adam Blickstein
    ‏Verified account
    Follow Follow @AdamBlickstein
    More Adam Blickstein Retweeted Maggie Haberman
    So what you’re saying is the NY Times shouldn’t have run 14 A1 stories on the caravan between from 10/22 till Election Day?

    I love these people on Twitter insisting the NYTimes tell the truth about what just happened but it won’t matter.

    All I’m asking for is a head’s up. They should let us know which “black/brown people infection/invasion” story they have cued up by end of August next election. Because you all know there will be one and it’s a big world! Give us a continent. Narrow it down a little. Ask Donald Trump. He’ll know by then.

  124. 124

    @Tenar Arha: I am not too happy with Ms. Stila Red Lip’s antics so far. This includes supporting Sharice Davids’ primary opponent. If she learns from her mistakes and uses the media spotlight on her for good, I am willing to change my opinion.

  125. 125
    WaterGirl says:

    @Mike in DC: After seeing how effective it is in this instance, I think everyone should do it all the time!

  126. 126
    trollhattan says:

    Wish the Federalists would start a blood feud between originalists and textualists that led to nothing but mountains of casualties. They’re more dangerous to democracy than the NRA.

    Also, too, fecking Turtle. Mister Haveitbothways strikes yet again.

  127. 127

    @geg6: So many including our esteemed blog host and some of the FPers fall for BS nonsense again and again. Is it the triumph of hope over experience? I don’t know.

  128. 128
    wasabi gasp says:

    Welp, looks like McConnell roped the Dems with an offer they can’t won’t refuse. Rats, foiled again.

  129. 129

    I heard a pundit interviewing a D senator on one of the investigatory committees (sorry for the vagueness) and the pundit asked what the Ds would go after first. The senator said the citizenship question on the census because time was running short on that. The pundit actually said that wasn’t what she expected him to say and what about something with Trump. He went back to the census. It was classic.

  130. 130


    I think they cover the business of politics.

    I agree, but I suggest that is compatible with my theory. The business of politics interests them. They glow with delight talking about it. Policy is for poindexters and they don’t want to talk about it. Taken together, they get to think of themselves as savvy experts digging up the true dirt, while they’re actually bubble-headed courtiers who eat up Republican bullshit as if it were pie. Plus, this is a worldview that people who basically agree with Republicans fall into easily, and will push them towards Republicans because Republicans are exciting liars and cheats, and Democrats are boring nerds who care about how politics might help people.

  131. 131
    wasabi gasp says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Ms. Stila Red Lip (as you gloated) is a winner. Clinton is a (consummate) loser. Time to take the broken record off the Victrola and groan a new song.

  132. 132
    Tenar Arha says:

    @schrodingers_cat: In terms of broad policy, check out how she’s using Twitter jujitsu so well

  133. 133
    Gravenstone says:

    @JGabriel: They’d just lie and claim that they had been the very image of respectful and accommodating. Again, that niggling absence of shame years its head.

  134. 134

    @Tenar Arha: Okay so she is good at sloganeering. What about policy.
    Let’s take an example, Abolish ICE is not a policy, its a slogan. We are always going to need an enforcement arm that deals with immigration and we are always going to need a Customs and Border Patrol. They need to be reformed not abolished.

  135. 135
    gwangung says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I think she DOES do that; for example, the response to Fox commenters making fun of her current lack of a DC home was used by her to highlight the housing and wage problems of regular Americans.

    But the media and much of the readership don;t pay attention to that….it’s always cast as Democrats in disarray….

  136. 136
    MattF says:

    OT. I seem to be postling only OT these days, but this is charming and irresistible.

  137. 137
    Fair Economist says:


    Nancy can damn sure find someone to run her answer

    She can? Seriously, who? None of the networks will. FTNYT? The Atlantic? The Young Turks?

  138. 138
    Gravenstone says:

    @tamiasmin: Pig shit. Runny and extra foul smelling.

  139. 139
    H.E.Wolf says:

    @wasabi gasp:

    Clinton is a (consummate) loser.

    Former US Senator and former Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton won the popular vote in a national election by almost 3 million votes, uphill against illegal interference by (among others) the FBI and the Russian government.

    If we’re looking to identify a consummate loser, I would point to the life history of the current President of the USA.

  140. 140
    Yarrow says:

    Tucker Carlson: "Hate to admit it, but Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has a very good point"— The Hill (@thehill) November 14, 2018

    Horseshoe theory in action.

  141. 141
    Tenar Arha says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I don’t know. She’s not my new representative so I’m not sure of the deep details of her policy proposals. I’m going to ask you, are we truly expecting all our Democratic politicians to be policy experts before they sign up for the job? Because if that’s the case, then of course some of these newly minted Dems will need help. Do you think Nancy Pelosi isn’t already thinking of ways to help them?

    I get why it’s utterly annoying that the youngest representative ever is the one the media is handing the spotlight to. It’s infuriating. I think if they gave Abigail Spanberger the microphone the media would hear something different. But I believe between OC & Spanberger the compromise is maybe what you’d expect: a top to bottom reform.

    That’s if we get to do any of it with Orange Julius in the WH, & McConnell & Schumer in the Senate.

  142. 142
    japa21 says:

    @H.E.Wolf: Ignore the (consummate) troll.

  143. 143

    @MattF: That made me laugh. I love the assumptions everyone makes from their own point of view.

  144. 144

    @Tenar Arha: No I don’t expect AOC to be a policy expert. I also expect her to not pretend like she has all the answers and everyone needs to just shut up and listen. That was the St Sanders way. Speechifying and yelling.
    I do expect her not to crap on Nancy Pelosi before she even takes the oath of office by “protesting” outside NP’s office.

  145. 145
    JPL says:

    @Sab: Me, me I put the hard copy on my xmas list, but downloaded the book to my nook already. I’m still in the formidable years, and it she is quite the story teller.

  146. 146
    Yarrow says:

    BREAKING: Fox News president says “FOX News supports CNN in its legal effort to regain its White House reporter’s press credential. We intend to file an amicus brief with the U.S. District Court.”— Ali Velshi (@AliVelshi) November 14, 2018

    Has someone checked outside to see if pigs are flying?

  147. 147
    JPL says:

    In case you don’t want to by your little ones klan outfits for x-mas the maga crowd had come up with build the wall building blocks. mediate link

  148. 148
    JPL says:

    @Yarrow: Here’ the full statement. They had to include a both sides ..

    “FOX News supports CNN in its legal effort to regain its White House reporter’s press credential. We intend to file an amicus brief with the U.S. District Court. Secret Service passes for working White House journalists should never be weaponized. While we don’t condone the growing antagonistic tone by both the President and the press at recent media avails, we do support a free press, access and open exchanges for the American people.”

  149. 149
    ruemara says:

    @wasabi gasp: She won because of very low turnout in a D+27 district. Clinton won overall in the popular vote and was shafted by 3rd party votes in key swing states. AOC has become an embarrassment to me, personally, as she’s less of the savvy progressive I would have hoped would come from NYC. And you are wrong.

  150. 150
    debit says:

    WTF Google?

    Judd Legum
    ‏Verified account @JuddLegum

    11/11: Video emerges of Cindy Hyde-Smith “joking” about attending a lynching

    Hyde-Smith doesn’t apologize, says she meant it as a compliment

    11/12: Gov Bryant deflects criticism by accusing black women of genocide

    11/13: @Google donates 5K to Hyde-Smith

  151. 151
    Tenar Arha says:

    @schrodingers_cat: There’s this whole exchange.

    Thank you, @NancyPelosi.

    We have 10 years left to plan and implement a Green New Deal before cataclysmic climate disaster.

    Reinstating the Select Committee is exactly what we need to do.

    [@Pelosi]Deeply inspired by the young activists & advocates leading the way on confronting climate change. The climate crisis threatens the futures of communities nationwide, and I strongly support reinstating the select committee to address the crisis.

    This seems like ian example of her learning on the job & tag teaming the media with Pelosi’s help.

  152. 152
    ruemara says:

    @debit: Complete WTF moment. I have to wonder if it’s an actual donation from Google or if it’s a donation from someone who works for Google.

  153. 153
    Neldob says:

    Ah, who was it said ‘my number one priority is making Obama a one term president’? Hmmm. Can’t remember. Maybe need to ask McConnell.

  154. 154
    cintibud says:

    Probably too late to this thread, but I think Democrats need to make clear that they will follow the “McConnell Rule” when it comes to questions about bipartisanship.

    Of course, the McConnell rule is “Fuck you”

  155. 155
    JPL says:

    @ruemara: Previously, I read that google does support some republicans. Maybe it’s bribe money to leave my company alone.

  156. 156
    Jay says:

    @Tenar Arha:

    Double secret probation yups.

    There’s a bunch of libtards here who’s first reaction is to assemble the circular firing squad.

    Even in a thread slamming Yurtle the Turtle.

  157. 157
    TenguPhule says:


    Has someone checked outside to see if pigs are flying?

    Not actually that surprising.

    Because if CNN loses this suit, FOX knows they’re royally fucked come the next Democratic government.

  158. 158
    ruemara says:

    @Tenar Arha: I guess I think learning on the job shouldn’t start with showboating in your future boss’ office about reinstating a committee that had already been reinstated. But, I’m funny that way and not used to being glorified for doing… nothing.

  159. 159
    Yarrow says:

    @Tenar Arha: Honestly, I just don’t fully trust her. Maybe it’s the running off to Kansas with Wilmer after she wins her primary to campaign for a white man and against a woman of color ina primary in another state. Maybe it’s her choosing to post a photo of her with Susan Sarandon. I just don’t fully trust her judgment. Maybe she did these things because she’s young and maybe she can learn but I’m skeptical of her choices so far.

    In yesterday’s exchange I think Pelosi saw what was happening, turned it to her advantage and it looks like she got AOC to praise her, Nancy Pelosi. That’s some smart politics. If the “young leftist firebrand” Rep is thanking Nancy Pelosi, that’s some nth dimensional chess right there. NANCY SMASH!

  160. 160
    Yarrow says:



    "Since the tax cuts were passed, the 1,000 largest public companies have actually reduced employment, on balance. They have announced the elimination of nearly 140,000 jobs — which is almost double the 73,000 jobs they say they have created"
    — Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) November 13, 2018

  161. 161
    Repatriated says:

    @ruemara: I’m not sure it’s showboating, exactly.

    My take is that it’s using a ginned-up controversy followed by cheerful reconciliation to get the story into the media again. It worked on that level.

    If the only story hook they’ll bite on is “Dems in Disarray”, give them that and (as it turned out they did) pivot to “Nope, we’re all good!”

    New rep gets to position-take, Once-and-future Speaker gets credit for reasonableness, point gets a few more media cycles.

  162. 162
    Emma says:

    @wasabi gasp: She “lost” by winning the popular vote by over 2 million votes and had the election ratfucked by the Russians. And she is one of the most accomplished American politicians of our generation. Your babe in the woods should take lessons. But she won’t. Like her followers, they prefer causing scenes to making legislative sausage.

  163. 163
    Kelly says:


    I’m really pleased voting rights are a top-tier issue for Democrats.

    Me to. It’s justice for our oppressed fellow citizens AND a simple, positive, get out the vote message for our side.

  164. 164
    Doug says:

    Ahh, the delicious ratio on the McConnell tweet.

  165. 165
    Ruckus says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Many parents and children can not let go of the childhoods. A lot of the time neither is ready to lose/gain the responsibility of the parents.

  166. 166
    Gravenstone says:

    @JPL: They recognize their own jeopardy if Trump is allowed to block any given reporter or news org. They well remember Obama musing about blocking them, after all. Granted, his reasoning was actually sound, with them being a Republican propaganda outlet rather than an actual news org. But they know that they’re vulnerable in the future if Trump prevails.

  167. 167
    Ruckus says:

    Every one older than me in the extended family is gone. Only cousins left.

  168. 168
    trollhattan says:

    Somebody winning their first congressional election is a zero-term congressman. Let’s see how she does before handling out gold stars.

  169. 169
    Jay says:


    Wasabi Gasp is a Russian troll who like a Florida monkey pops in from time to time to fling shit around.

  170. 170
    TS (the original) says:


    Has someone checked outside to see if pigs are flying?

    Fox knows full well if this is a win to the white house – they could be the people to go when a President gets tired of their propaganda. Looking after their own interests.

  171. 171
    Jay says:


    Nobody’s handing AOC gold stars,

    Instead there’s a bunch of people trying to organize a tar and feathering.

    Circular Firing Squads are however, a long standing Democratic Party tradition.

  172. 172
    TS (the original) says:


    Because if CNN loses this suit, FOX knows they’re royally fucked come the next Democratic government.

    You said that much more succinctly than I managed. Exactly.

  173. 173
    Chyron HR says:



    I see we have our talking point for the day. Doesn’t “circular firing squad” imply that AOC is wrong to be attacking Democrats?

  174. 174
    Emma says:

    @trollhattan: Exactly what I said. I think.

  175. 175

    @Tenar Arha: I think this @Yarrow: comment sums up my feelings about ACO.

  176. 176

    @Chyron HR:
    I think the argument is that attacking AOC or Pelosi in this issue, even discussing it more than in passing, is focusing on criticizing our allies when there are so many enemies lined up to criticize.

  177. 177
    Jay says:

    @Chyron HR:

    No, Circular Firing squad references that fact that for some self identifying Democrats, the only thing they hate, more than The Insane Clown POSus, is other Democrat’s they don’t think are the “right” kind of Democrat.

    Primary pie fights all over again, all over a “stunt” or “theater” that actually got the News to mention a Democratic Party policy in a day full of Shitgibbon overload.

    It’s supposed to be a Big Tent. Get used to it or get used to living in the Wilderness.

  178. 178
    Doug R says:

    She hasn’t even been seated yet, and AOC is out trying to sandbag Pelosi. It’s almost as if somebody didn’t want Pelosi to be an effective leader and is using AOC. This ties in with AOC flying out to Kansas to support the Berner running against Sharice Davids. Lot of russian around putin Democrats down, if you ask me.

  179. 179
    Brachiator says:

    @Doug R:

    She hasn’t even been seated yet, and AOC is out trying to sandbag Pelosi. It’s almost as if somebody didn’t want Pelosi to be an effective leader and is using AOC. This ties in with AOC flying out to Kansas to support the Berner running against Sharice Davids. Lot of russian around putin Democrats down, if you ask me.

    People need to calm the fuck down.

  180. 180

    @Jay: I am fine with Ds more conservative than I am like Doug Jones or more liberal than I am like Sherrod Brown but I cannot abide by opportunists who gratuitously attack other elected Ds to claim media spotlight, like BS of Vt or his newest elected protege. YMMV.

  181. 181
    BroD says:

    I am SO eager to reach across the aisle (and wrap my fingers around that turtle neck)!

  182. 182
    Mnemosyne says:


    In yesterday’s exchange I think Pelosi saw what was happening, turned it to her advantage and it looks like she got AOC to praise her, Nancy Pelosi. That’s some smart politics. If the “young leftist firebrand” Rep is thanking Nancy Pelosi, that’s some nth dimensional chess right there.

    Yep. Hopefully AOC is smart enough to decide that she needs to learn from Jedi Master Pelosi rather than running around grandstanding forget r the next two years.

    In fact, it would be hilarious if all of the newly elected House members who are women rally around Nancy as Speaker and vote for her as a block. That would make my year.

  183. 183
    J R in WV says:

    @wasabi gasp:

    And how did I miss pieing you that last time you visited our fair blog with your nonsense? Don’t know, but I do know this is the last time I’m forced to view your comment!

    Now you can talk about pie all you want!

    Aarrgggg! Now my pie filter appear to be broken – no nym field to enter ms wasabi gasp!

  184. 184
    Jay says:


    Bernie’s not a Democrat.

    You are gonna have to get used to AOC.

    She’s a “Media Darling” because:
    – the media fucked the pooch on her campaign and election,
    – she’s young, brash, left, social media savvy so all the lazy media tropes are easy to trot out about “socialism”, “Dems in Disarray”, “Yutes!!!!”, “Millenials”, etc. That makes her a perfect “subject” because they don’t have to actually write about her. They can just make up whatever shit they want.
    – she’s a New Yorker so they can just take a cab for their Cletus Safari’s,
    – despite what some would have you believe, she’s not the only D who “distanced” herself from the Democratic Party Leadership, during an election where the ReThug’s campaigned in part by Demonizing Pelosi. It’s called Politics.

    Hey, I’m Canadain. Kick AOC out out of the party and all the other Democrat Senators and Representatives you don’t like as well. You guy’s have recall in some places, doncha.

    It’s not like the House, Senate, Supreme Court or Elections matter, right.

    And it’s not like theres anything else happening news wise or issue wise.

    So keep on, keeping on, poisoning the well.

  185. 185
    Mnemosyne says:


    Yeah, I can’t imagine why Democratic women are impatient with the hot new flavor of the week’s attempts to push aside a seasoned female legislator. I mean, it’s not like replacing middle-aged and older women with a younger and less experienced one is common in our society or anything.

    But, please, continue to mansplain to us why it’s awesome to demand that older women step aside while older men retain their power. That tack is going over really well, believe you me.

  186. 186
    Jay says:


    It’s not like a Black Female Georgia State Democratic Senator was arrested, zip tied, held in jail for 6 hours for doing her job,

    Or the DOJ decided that Whittaker is perfectly Constitutional despite hiding under his bed from process servers after defrauding the Government of $700k.

    Keep on keeping on, posioning the well.

  187. 187
    Mnemosyne says:


    It’s not like a Black Female Georgia State Democratic Senator was arrested, zip tied, held in jail for 6 hours for doing her job,

    … while her white male colleague was left alone. Sounds like there might be some sexism and racism there, no? Perhaps a pervasive problem that women on this very website are trying to clue you in about?

    Or the DOJ decided that Whittaker is perfectly Constitutional despite hiding under his bed from process servers after defrauding the Government of $700k.

    The curve for straight white men is real, as rikyrah has to remind us almost daily. But pointing out that straight white men get privileges that the rest of us don’t is something you don’t want to hear.

    Keep on keeping on, posioning the well.

    Nice to know that pointing out your subconscious misogyny in elevating a young woman over an older and more experienced one is now considered “poisoning the well.” I guess all us little ladies should just keep our mouths shut and wait for our menfolk to gift us our rights rather than getting all uppity and pointing out when there’s misogyny in action right in front of your face that you refuse to acknowledge.

  188. 188


    Keep on keeping on, posioning the well.

    Tell that to your heroine. I am just a lowly Balloon Juice commenter, not a Congress person elect. BS was an opportunist, he became a Dem to gain the nomination of the party and then proceeded to crap all over the said party.
    AOC identifies as a Democratic Socialist, and so far seems to be following her mentor’s playbook. Run as a D and then crap on the elected members of the same party. I do hope she changes. Winning an election is the beginning not an end in itself of a politician’s career. I do hope she trains her rhetorical guns on Rs instead of Ds who share most of her objectives.
    Meanwhile, I have come to the conclusion based on your comments that you are an idiot whose comments should be ignored, henceforth.

  189. 189
    Jay says:


    So far, the “arguments” against AOC have consisted of:

    – agism
    – mysogengy
    – primary butthurt
    – being a Left Democrat
    – not being sufficiently Establishmentarian,
    – insufficient deference and fealty to Authority,

    and my favourite of all,

    “doing mild politics in a manner I don’t agree with”.

    And of course, in the thread that started this all, butthurt comments about how the protester’s were protesting, or protesting all wrong.

    She hasn’t taken a seat, hasn’t cast a single vote,

    But hey, keep on, keeping on stabbing away at her. It’s so attractive and should result in tens of thousands of youtes swelling the ranks of the Democratic Party.

    Wern’t you the one butthurt about the Protestors protesting all wrong and how the protest didn’t stop climate change and so all protests are stupid?

  190. 190
    Mnemosyne says:


    Let’s look at your claims one by one, shall we?



    – mysogengy

    Interesting attempt at spelling, but accurate. Note that misogyny and ageism are not actually different arguments — women are subject to far more ageism then men are, because of misogyny.

    – primary butthurt

    And by this you mean being annoyed that AOC chose to campaign for a straight white man in KS-3 instead of the eventual winner of that district, Native American candidate Sharice Davids?

    But, sure, feel free to support AOC’s political savvy in supporting a white dude who couldn’t win the Democratic primary and dissing the woman of color who won the whole shebang and will now be one of AOC’s new colleagues. Go ahead, tell us that AOC was right all along and the white dude would have been even more better than Davids.

    – being a Left Democrat

    Close — she’s being dissed for being a Berniecrat. Not the same thing as a Left Democrat, many of whom wouldn’t spit on Bernie if he were on fire.

    – not being sufficiently Establishmentarian,

    Again: younger woman getting pitted against an older, more experienced woman. Nancy Pelosi is not “the Establishment.” She is a person, and AOC is being pitted against her in one of the most classic misogynist ploys of all time.

    – insufficient deference and fealty to Authority,

    Again, not “Authority.” Nancy Pelosi. Her elder in both years and experience who should be respected for the depth of knowledge she brings to the table, not dismissed as too old and too ugly to be a leader.

    Again, you’re repeating misogynist arguments over and over again and getting angry when we point out that they’re all misogynist at their base. Because they are.

  191. 191

    @Jay: My criticism of AOC was pretty mild. You seem to have taken it personally. Are you a little bit in love with AOC. Are you scribbling her initials in the margin of your notebook?

  192. 192
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Jay: You’re a CanayJen. Which means you can fuck the hell right off, hoser. In Quebec, that’s va te faire foutre, salope!

  193. 193
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Yarrow: @schrodingers_cat: @ruemara: 🤷‍♀️So, this may be a dead thread. But clearly I feel the need to make my point again, hopefully differently & somewhat entertainingly.

    I understand. You’re not inclined to trust AOC after her getting into the middle of the primaries in Kansas. (FWIW I have some BS reactivity myself which makes me 😒 anyone who’s currently working with him).

    And please note, just in case I haven’t already made myself clear, I think we’re all arguing about a controversy stirred up by the reporters who’ve donned the misogynistic lenses of the MSM, who much prefer creating controversy between Democrats rather than actually listening to whatever women say, whether they’re activists or experts or politicians. (This isn’t the only story that the MSM has badly misconceived & screwed up this week).

    So here’s a good thread by John Stoehr that reports on the origins of the story about what happened. I’m going to try to put up the link to the @threadreaderapp html page version (I’m old enough that I don’t enjoy reading 20+ tweet threads in the Twitter app but Tweets #16-24 are the keys to the story). But anyway if turns out there’s still max 3 links per post, I’m going to make this a two parter.

    /really, I promise, last two cents 😉

    ETA shoulda waited for Cheryl 🤦‍♀️

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