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Good God, what an omnishambles of an administration:

How many Scaramucci Units will Whitaker last?

250 replies
  1. 1
    LAO says:

    He also claimed — that he never discussed the Mueller investigation with him. So credible and so believable.

  2. 2
    bemused says:

    He’s never met any of his campaign or WH staffers.

  3. 3
    Chyron HR says:

    It’s not a lie if you believe it have senile dementia!

  4. 4
    cain says:

    Why do people bother to ask him any questions. Every word out of his mouth is a lie. That’s why he attack with fake news. I’m really hoping he gets caught in a lie so bad that even his supporters would have cognitive dissonance. Something like there is no hurricane coming to florida or something and attacks the weather channel for fake news.

  5. 5
    cain says:

    We should ask if he knows Jeff Sessions at all. So he doesn’t know the guy he put in charge of the DOJ? If i was an investor of a business, I would be asking some aggressive questions.

  6. 6
    Manyakitty says:

    Here’s hoping that fraud is gone by the end of the week. Also hoping for lots of fun indictments, or at least one for Large Adult Son 1, while donnie douchebag is flying to France.

  7. 7
    Kay says:

    Another low quality hire. They’re actually getting worse. They were bottom of the barrel and now they’re not even in the barrel. It’s just whoever wanders onto the Fox News set at this point. By the end we’ll be seeing Craig’s list ads.

    Part of the problem is there are so many grifters and scammers in the Right sphere. There are thousands and thousands of people employed in this scam industry. It’s unsettling. You start to fear that no one has a real job. This is like a SECTOR at this point.

  8. 8
    SFAW says:

    @Chyron HR:

    It’s not a lie if you believe it / have senile dementia tell people that you’re telling the best, hugest truth!

    Or tell the people that the lie is Fake News created by the Luegenpresse.

  9. 9
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    The Hoarse Whisperer @ HoarseWisperer
    20m20 minutes ago
    Only Trump would think claiming he appointed someone he doesn’t know to Attorney General would sound better rather than worse.

  10. 10
    Yarrow says:

    How many Scaramucci Units will Whitaker last?

    When does the clock start for counting a Scaramucci unit? When he’s announced as hired?

  11. 11
    dopey-o says:

    Does anyone have a roadmap for removing Whitaker before he does any damage? Dems have no power, and R’s have no shame, so I am guessing the courts are our only resort?

  12. 12
    Barbara says:

    Just checking in to say that Kyrsten Sinema has officially taken the lead in the Arizona senate race, but lots of votes remain to be counted. Go Kyrsten!

  13. 13
    Ken says:

    Sorry, I get all my news from Balloon Juice and Cracked, so I’m missing some background. What did Whitaker do that caused Trump to deny knowing him? The bar in this misadministration is in a weird place, so I’d have to think it’s one of those dead girl or live boy situations – either that, or Whitaker didn’t fawn and grovel enough to Trump.

  14. 14
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: I sent this to a former DOJ official I was emailing with about Whitaker yesterday.

    I’m not sure Whitaker is going to be around long. The news media has their teeth into him as a new chew toy. His entire life is going to be put under a microscope. Even Judge Napolitano at Fox said making him Acting AG is unconstitutional on this morning’s A Blonde with Two Boobs on a Sofa show. I’m pretty sure none of the three hosts are smart enough to understand Napolitano’s explanation. Beyond that, and beyond the Miami patent scam he was involved with, I’m sure he’s got lots of skeletons in his closet. And, apparently, Sam Clovis has now come out and stated that he consulted with Whitaker during the 2016 campaign when he had (legal?) questions on things he was doing for the President’s campaign. Whitaker is basically the podunk Federalist Society member who caught the Buick. Even if he lasts out the month, he’s gonna get run over and mangled.

  15. 15
    Kay says:

    @JenniferJJacobs
    Follow Follow @JenniferJJacobs
    More
    QUESTION (from @abbydphillip): Do you want acting AG Matt Whitaker to rein in Mueller?
    TRUMP: “What a stupid question.”

    Testy! Maybe these asshole authoritarians can pull another press pass. Maybe if they ban media coverage no one will figure out they’re incompetent and they made (yet another) low quality hire.

  16. 16
    Platonailedit says:

    @Barbara: Yesss. We need more info on good news like these than about what the inept sleazy racist pos blathers on.

  17. 17
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Abby D. Phillip @ abbydphillip
    Trump says dirisively of George Conway @gtconway3d “you mean Mr. Kellyanne Conway?” Trump says he is trying to get attention.

    I wonder if Kellyanne got invited to Paris?

  18. 18
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Who’s the Fox News lawyer who does campaign events with him? She’s next up. It’s a very limited talent pool. “Attorney general! Any takers?”

  19. 19
    LAO says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I certainly expect that you’re correct, It will be interesting (read awful) to see how much damage he can do in a short period of time. Also, the scuttlebutt around these parts, is that Whitaker is not trusted or respected by DOJ professionals — so maybe he gets undermined by the rank and file .

  20. 20
    japa21 says:

    There has been a lot of talk about indictments coming down today. I am not counting on that.

  21. 21
    GregB says:

    Trump likes his coffee boys big and muscular. Straight from central casting.

  22. 22
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    See, his wife has a job so that means he’s emasculated. It’s a VERY clever jibe, or was, in 1956.

  23. 23
    jonas says:

    @Barbara: And naturally there had to be a Green Party candidate in there taking roughly as many votes as Sisema would have needed to put her over the top.

  24. 24
    Platonailedit says:

    Final result: closer to 40 than 30. Largest Dem gain since Watergate. https://t.co/DdWzCs4m4M— Dave Wasserman (@Redistrict) November 9, 2018

  25. 25
    Immanentize says:

    @dopey-o: Besides the media issue LAO outlines, I think even this SCOTUS would have to say that Whitaker is a principle officer of the US that must be approved by the Senate. Therefore, a quick lawsuit by Senators could stop him fast.

  26. 26

    I am seeing online more arguments that Whitaker’s appointment is in violation of SEVERAL rules and that his acting AG role could get challenged the second he tries to shut down Mueller’s or any other DOJ investigations.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/matthew-whitaker-jeff-sessions-replacement-illegal.html

  27. 27
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Manyakitty: Think about it from Mueller’s perspective: the longer he stays quiet and seems to be inactive, the more time for the President and the people around him to do stupid things. Despite his bluster, the President is terrified, he has no idea what might be coming, and he has no ability to actually control what Mueller is doing. If you’re conducting a counterintelligence operation, this is a dream come true. Mueller’s team has the network mapped out and now they’re watching it.

  28. 28
    Kay says:

    So does Chris Christie promoting himself for this job mean he’s still unemployed? How do these people survive without working? There are THOUSANDS of them. Do they get a stipend? Does Scott Walker go on the Koch dole now until he finds some crony appointment?

  29. 29

    Are you fucking kidding me? This guy.

    Wouldn’t it be funny if, after all this, Rosenstein ends up director (as it should be) because this admin can’t do anything without fucking it up.

  30. 30
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Agreed. Whitaker’s life is going to get worse and worse. His best bet is to get out now before his life gets destroyed.

  31. 31
    Platonailedit says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yup, a cornered rat lashing out.

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: That whole thing is stupid. Scaramucci was never actually inprocessed. He simply showed up 10 days before his announced start/onboarding date and took over a press conference. And his manic performance should have been an indication he needed a random urinalysis test. He then gave a stupid interview that night that got him in trouble. And it was announced the next day he would not be the next Director of Communications. He didn’t get fired after 10 days on the job, rather the job offer was rescinded 9 days before his start date.

  33. 33
    LAO says:

    @Immanentize: I cannot believe this crackpot is acting AG — even if briefly.

  34. 34
    Ken says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    the President to do stupid things

    “Orly Traffic Control, this is Air Force One. I’ve been asked to file a modified flight plan. We will not, repeat not, be landing in Paris. AF-1 will be flying on to Moscow.”

  35. 35

    @Kay:

    Another low quality hire. They’re actually getting worse.

    This was predicted. The people he had at the beginning of the administration were the best people he could convince to join. Anyone he hires from this point on is likely to be worse than the person they’re replacing.

    This is something of a problem with any administration, but with Trump it’s worse. Ideally, you can groom replacements among the lower-level staff, so you have competent replacements ready when the higher level people resign. But Trump has both failed to appoint people to fill many of those lower level political positions and run through staff unusually quickly, so the replacement pipeline just can’t keep up.

  36. 36
    Kelly says:

    @jonas: Worries me how few of our fellow citizens understand how our republic, our politics, our economy, our biosphere works. They’re like the drivers you see out in the snow relentlessly stomping on the gas.

  37. 37
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Even if he lasts out the month, he’s gonna get run over and mangled.

    I have the car idling in anticipation, in case they need backup.

  38. 38
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, it’s stupid but it’s kind of an amusing way to frame things. So a Scaramucci unit is negative nine days? Winning!

    How is your cold coming along? Hope you’re feeling better.

  39. 39
    rikyrah says:

    UH HUH
    UH HUH

    As a CEO, Rick Scott oversaw a multi-billion dollar Medicare fraud – the biggest in American history resulting in 14 felonies and a $1.7 billion fine.

    What makes you think that as Governor, he wouldn’t steal a few thousand votes by shutting down the count?

    — Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) November 9, 2018

  40. 40

    @Kay: One thing in favor of the low quality hire, he wears his baldness proudly instead of hiding it under a nest of doll’s hair.

  41. 41
    trollhattan says:

    @Kay:
    A Christie–Giuliani cage match would make for a pretty entertaining nomination process.

  42. 42
    Just One More says:

    @Kay: They’re the cockroaches and maggots that live underneath the barrel and scatter when you have to move it

  43. 43
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: speeches? TV network fees? directorships? “consulting”? Book advance? There are thousands of them, but Christie has to be one of the top two or three. I imagine a rightwing ex-governor of New Jersey could easily rack up a million or more in a year without breaking a sweat.

    ETA: as somebody said on twitter, the advantage to Christie is, he’ll stab trump in the back if his own longer-term interests demand it.

  44. 44
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    Another low quality hire. They’re actually getting worse.

    YOU have been relentless with this point. And, it’s absolutely on the mark.

  45. 45
    LAO says:

    @trollhattan: I friend of mine was on the 6:00 am ACELA to DC yesterday and she snapped a photograph of Christie when he got on the train in Newark. Trust me, Rudy’s britlle, all Christie has to do is sit on him. (I don’t mean this as fat shaming at all — but I was shocked that Christie has regained all of the weight after surgery.)

  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ken: He didn’t do anything Trump didn’t want him to. Trump just didn’t think past “I’ve got my Roy Cohn”.

  47. 47
    lamh36 says:

    That not the worse thing.

    Did u see what he said about April Ryan!!

    Or to the young Black reporter who asked him a question!!

    Racist POS

    ETA: he can’t go after Michelle so for dragging him about the birther stuff so he goes after other Black women

  48. 48
    trollhattan says:

    @LAO:
    I’m envisioning Giuliani crumbling and Christie having an MI. Winning.

  49. 49
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Isn’t there some unit in physics like a pica or something like that, denoted by a Greek squiggle and meaning “roughly the length of one of the shortest pubic hairs on an electron”?

    I think THAT many Scaramuccis is how long he lasts.

  50. 50
    japa21 says:

    @rikyrah: Scott is fine with a machine recount. Now that it is in manual recount territory he knows he is in trouble.

  51. 51
    Manyakitty says:

    @Adam L Silverman: There you go, making sense again. Plus, I guess it’s fun to watch them twist and panic while they wait for the next shoe to drop.

  52. 52
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36: Speaking of Michelle Obama. Her new book is shaping up to being a very interesting read.

    Michelle Obama Revealed She Suffered A Miscarriage And Conceived Her Daughters Using IVF buzzfeednews.com/article/amberj… via @ambiej

    i’ve already preordered mine

  53. 53
    Manyakitty says:

    @Kay: He should show up every day with a fresh bag of McDonald’s.

  54. 54
    LAO says:

    Well, this is fucking disturbing.

    Acting AG faced criticism for case against gay Iowa Democrat https://t.co/sBgg9Q63E7— Ben Jacobs (@Bencjacobs) November 9, 2018

  55. 55
    LAO says:

    @trollhattan: I’m with you — I’m only willing to root for injuries.

  56. 56
    germy says:

    @Kay:

    See, his wife has a job so that means he’s emasculated. It’s a VERY clever jibe, or was, in 1956.

    I think trump’s insult is based on his wife being more famous than he is. Fame and attention being the true measure of a person’s worth (in trump’s eyes) rather than what they… uh… do or say.

  57. 57
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @LAO: He will be undermined. They’ll start leaking like a sieve about him. He’s also not very bright, so they might just confuse him with shiny objects. You notice that Rosenstein cancelled his official travel yesterday and is making sure he’s in the building? He had plans for this, just as Mueller did. Rosenstein’s plans are to protect DOJ from someone like Whitaker or, before he got run out in disgrace, Pruitt, when it was a possibility Pruitt could just be slid over from EPA.

  58. 58
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @LAO: Christie may be gross and corrupt but he’d run over the rapidly declining and increasingly distracted* Rudi G like a freight train

    * there was a PageSix piece (I didn’t look at it directly I followed a twitter link it was pure schadenfreude I swear!) that Rudi is telling Judi he’s broke and can’t afford (IIRC) $66K/month in alimony and the upkeep on the places in the Hamptons and Palm Beach and her mother’s rent at the retirement community (Green Grove?). If Rudi is actually dumb enough to try to do anything but get Judi’s signature on the NDA, he’s dumber, drunker and more senile than he seems on TeeVee.

  59. 59
    scav says:

    He only hires the very people that he’s never heard of in his life, let alone met.

  60. 60
    Radiumgirl says:

    @cain: exactly. This is supposed to be Mr. Upright Successful Businessman and he just hired a guy he doesn’t know to fill in a top post? Please.

  61. 61
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    F.O.W.(friend of Wittaker) interviewed this morning assures us that Whittaker will be fair because he played football at Iowa. Seems more of a Fox argument than an NPR argument, but whatever.

  62. 62
    Yarrow says:

    @lamh36: At that press conference on Wednesday he called on at least three foreign reporters. They all spoke English with accents reflective of their native language. Each time Trump said, “I can’t understand him/her/you” to them.

  63. 63
    Amir Khalid says:

    @cain:
    In my fantasy world, Trump does a sitdown interview on TV. Every lie he tells is immediately and ruthlessly exposed by the interviewer, with supporting evidence: contemporaneous news reports, Trump’s own statements, documentary evidence, the works. Trump is not allowed to leave the set. An hour of this would be … satisfying to watch.

    Not, of course, that I ever expect to see it.

  64. 64
    C Stars says:

    An aide gave him like three possible lines in response to this question and he just repeated the words over and over again in that lazy, incoherent, rambling fashion that we all know so well from enduring generations of dumb but self-righteous drunk uncles. I’m guessing the “I don’t know him” part was improvised, because as has been pointed out this is just stupid–the opposite of a selling point–and of course because the guy is chronically allergic to any form of personal accountability.

  65. 65
    JMG says:

    Before he took down his twitter page, there was a old tweet from Whitaker saying if he ran an NFL franchise he’d make Tim Tebow his quarterback. So yeah, he’s dumb, even about the sport he played.

  66. 66
    germy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Rudi spent thousands of dollars on cigars.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Immanentize: @LAO: It goes beyond just this mess at DOJ. I expect up to 5 more cabinet vacancies/high level vacancies within the next week. There is no one lined up to fill those positions. Not that getting rid of Zinke and some of the other cabinet secretaries won’t be a good thing in and of themselves, but the government can’t function without the appointed constitutional officers in place to run it.

  68. 68
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And some poor sap of a database admin got stuck with a real problem.

  69. 69
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Trump thinks everyone is his Roy Cohn. He’s looking for love in all the wrong places.

  70. 70

    @Amir Khalid: There was a debate hosted between the two Lt. Governor candidates by a local MA newsman. He was tough on both the candidates not letting them slide into their comfortable talking points. He was better than anyone I have seen on the NewsHour. So the talent exists, it just doesn’t get promoted to the national level for some reason.

  71. 71
    The Moar You Know says:

    Christie will never see any post in this administration. He really is Lucy with the football. Trump, for whatever reason, hates him and delights in humiliating him.

    And speaking of humiliation, that crack about Conway…if someone said that kind of shit about my spouse, I’d be out the door that day, but not before using them as a punching bag on the way out. That she stays in the face of that says something about her and her marriage and neither one is anything good.

  72. 72
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Ken: To come back to the point about Mueller’s team having the network mapped out and now they’re watching it. What will the President talk about with Vlad next week in Paris? Mueller will know because we’ll have SIGINT targeting on Putin. Who is the President on the unsecured iphone with in the residence each night and what is he telling them? Mueller knows because we’ve got SIGINT monitoring of the PRC’s, the Russians, the Israelis, etc SIGINT monitoring of those calls. You can learn a tremendous amount by leaving a network intact, slightly agitating one part of it, and then watching how the rest of the network reacts and responds.

  73. 73
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @JMG: Before he took down his twitter page, there was a old tweet from Whitaker saying if he ran an NFL franchise he’d make Tim Tebow his quarterback.

    with Jesus as his receiver they’d beat an all-Ditka defense coached by Tom Landry

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan:

  75. 75
    Yarrow says:

    @The Moar You Know: I think it’s just an act. Kellyanne is the Trump side of the family. George is the NeverTrump side of the family. They’re playing both sides so they can continue to work in conservative circles no matter what happens.

  76. 76
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: Starting too. Got a lot of sleep. Thanks for asking.

  77. 77
    Manyakitty says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So, a slap and tickle operation, grabbing him by the SIGINT.

  78. 78
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He has a paid contributor contract with CNN.

  79. 79
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: There is no one lined up to fill those positions

    I give weight to the notion that Lindsey’s ultimate goal is to outlast trump and die a serving Senator in the NBC make up chair on a Sunday morning, but I also wonder if he’d be able to resist replacing Mattis. Finally, finally! getting that war that will prove to his dead daddy that he’s a real man.

  80. 80
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Glad you’re feeling better.

  81. 81
    SFAW says:

    @debbie:

    I was in the car, listening to NPR, when that came on. Shut it off before Shill-O’-the-Day could open his yap. Was tempted to call NPR and ask them if they’re ever going to try to find a Democrat to interview. About anything other than impeaching (so to speak) Nancy Pelosi, that is.

  82. 82
    Doug Gardner says:

    @Yarrow: What’s the conversion factor from Scaramucci Units to Friedman Units (the latter being, I think, about 6 months)?

  83. 83
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Heh, well played.

  84. 84
    SFAW says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    with Jesus as his receiver they’d beat an all-Ditka defense coached by Tom Landry

    Ditka was a tight end, and he’s 79 years old, so that’s probably a sure thing, Jesus or no.

  85. 85
    MCA1 says:

    @Amir Khalid: That actually sounds like Dante’s special Trump Circle of Hell. The rules would be set out beforehand: you will be released from this interview if and when you go one hour without lying. So, an eternity it would be. I picture Ted Danson as the interviewer.

  86. 86
    debbie says:

    @SFAW:

    Yeah, good old Tim Ryan popped up yesterday. He said he didn’t want to run against her, but he sure wasn’t going to vote for her.

  87. 87
    SFAW says:

    @Doug Gardner:

    What’s the conversion factor from Scaramucci Units to Friedman Units (the latter being, I think, about 6 months)?

    Forty-two?

  88. 88
    piratedan says:

    @japa21: tends to make you suspect that there were indeed shenanigans of some kind, don’t it? If these guys are willing to lie about the smallest things, I really don’t think they’ll feel any guilt whatsoever about tweaking a few votes surreptitiously here and there, you just shave about 5k here and 3k there… maybe put in a Random algorithm that has a rule match along the lines of, if the last name is Smith, make this an “R” or even simpler along the lines if the year date on the DOB is 1957, the vote is ‘R”…. which would be just random enough to throw off people just looking at numbers…

  89. 89
    SFAW says:

    @debbie:

    Yeah, good old Tim Scott popped up yesterday. He said he didn’t want to run against her, but he sure wasn’t going to vote for her.

    Related to Nancy Smash: I called my Congresswoman’s office this AM to register my support for Nancy. The aide/admin on the other end said they’ve been getting a lot of calls on that subject — and from both sides. So, it sounds like the magic of Rethug smears/hate is having some effect. I hope not sufficient effect.

    Maybe Pelosi has e-mails on a private server, then the FTFTFNYT can jump in with both cloven hooves/hoofs.

  90. 90
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    IANAL but this looks like a big deal

    Neal Katyal @ neal_katyal
    Wow. The Court of Appeals, in a case challenging Mueller, now orders briefing on impact of the Sessions firing & installation of Whittaker. It is possible for parties to take the view that his boss is the legitimate Rosenstein, not the pretend-Attorney General Trump wants to have

  91. 91
    Radiumgirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Adam I am interested in your take on the question of whether Christie’s self-interest — assuming he’s the AG and Trump isn’t using this as another opp to humiliate him — whether his self-interest will triumph over corrupt cronyism and prevent him from trying to derail the investigation. Also if Christie’s name is being floated for AG is that a rebuke to Jared? Apologies if you’ve already addressed this elsewhere.

  92. 92
    Yarrow says:

    Ouch!

    Rick Scott’s playbook here is not novel. Norm Coleman claimed same thing in 2008. Turns out it’s not tenable to argue to your own voters their votes shouldn’t count. Today, Norm Coleman lobbies for Saudi Arabia. https://t.co/fJue0JysZW— Eric Schultz (@EricSchultz) November 9, 2018

  93. 93
    Kent says:

    I certainly expect that you’re correct, It will be interesting (read awful) to see how much damage he can do in a short period of time. Also, the scuttlebutt around these parts, is that Whitaker is not trusted or respected by DOJ professionals — so maybe he gets undermined by the rank and file .

    Seriously. He’s replacing Sessions. The revanchist confederate who started the whole DOJ war on immigrants and who torpedoed all the bipartison efforts on sentencing reform and probably the worst AG since Ed Meese. I’d almost rather have an incompetent placeholder than a competent right wing racist running the place.

    Honest question because I don’t know the answer. But how much did the rank and file professionals like and respect Sessions? If it wasn’t for Mueller we’d all be cheering the defenestration of Sessions. Of course if it wasn’t for Mueller then Sessions would be Trump’s best buddie.

  94. 94
    Martin says:

    @Amir Khalid: In my fantasy world, Trump and Pence sit down for a live TV interview and during the first question Mueller walks out with several US Marshals and handcuffs the president and VP, read them their rights, and frog marches them out of the east wing. Nancy Pelosi enters the room as next on the succession list along with John Roberts and is sworn in as POTUS. She then signals to Mueller who then handcuffs Justice Kavanaugh and charges him with perjury (I don’t know how he got there, but that happens) then sits down with the interviewer who has transformed into Natasha Bertrand (because I could watch her all day) and who announces that the entire cabinet is now fired and will be charged at the appropriate time. She announces her new cabinet of people whose names I don’t recognize but apparently Natasha notes that they are all lesbian or transgender individuals of color and exceedingly well qualified. Then Rachel Maddow cuts in with breaking news that reports are that both Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz have died in some kind of romantic murder/suicide involving a bacon-wrapped AR-15 which, under some obscure senate rule means that Democrats now run the Senate. And new reports are coming in that Neil Gorsuch, Sean Hannity, and Jeanine Pirro were all caught in the crossfire along with Steve King.

    My man, if you’re going to construct a fantasy, don’t let it go to waste.

  95. 95
    tobie says:

    @debbie: What is Ryan’s problem? He did nothing to help swing his state. His state–I would go so far as to say–doesn’t really matter in Democratic Presidential math any longer. The party’s ascendent on the coasts, in the upper midwest, and southwest (AZ, NM, TX). MO, OH, and IN have become toxic swamps of FOX addicted, bitter working class whites.

    And the attacks from the left on Pelosi are equally ridiculous. Yes, 3 Berners (Ocasio Cortez, Tlaib and Omar) won in urban centers that were bound to stay blue. More power to ’em. But Our Revolution candidates made no inroads anywhere else, even though they claim to understand and speak for the common folk. That’s why we will have no Rep Randy Bryce, Jess King, Paul Davis, James Thompson or Gov Ben Jealous. Katie Porter may sneak it out. We’ll have to see. I’m tempted to say that urban and suburban voters said in this election that they like liberals. It’s an old-fashioned term. Why did we retire it?

  96. 96
    Gravenstone says:

    @JMG: Dog whistle that he’s a God botherer and would elevate Tebow based on his ostentatious piety rather than any actual football skills.

  97. 97
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @debbie: Ryan and Moulton seem like a pair of dumb dogs who caught a car. They made a lot of noise and got a lot of attention, and when anyone asked them to speak a sentence beyond “new blood”, they were left stammering and confused. I agree the Dems in the House need to start promoting younger leaders, but I hope it isn’t either of those mooks.

    @SFAW: Ditka could play every position, and coach, and be all the referees, and sell beer in the stands. And only Jesus could stop him.

  98. 98
    RobertB says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Planck Length. ℓP. 1.6 x 10-35 meters. If the universe is a simulation on God’s computer, that’s the pixel size.

  99. 99
    mad citizen says:

    @cain: To quote our old Hoosier rock star Johnny Cougar, Nuthin Matters and What If It Did? We just have to wait for Mueller or 2020 or the Grim Reaper to rid ourselves of the orange one.

  100. 100
    Martin says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s blatantly unconstitutional to put Whitaker in that job. I know the standard for impeaching a Republican President is something worse than standing in the middle of 5th Avenue and shooting someone, but this really should be an impeachable offense. Blatant abuse of power is exactly what the founders had in mind there.

  101. 101
    trollhattan says:

    Re. the Thousand Oaks murderer, we may not want hang his acts on PTSD.

    If the school really did bury his assault so as to not hurt his chances of getting into the Marines, it could be argued they share a slice of responsibility.

    Stinks that that very community is now threatened by fire. And in other fire news, the Camp Fire grew to 70,000 acres overnight and threatens Chico.

  102. 102
    mad citizen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes but he is a stain on the bald community…

  103. 103
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Hmmm…

    Appeals court: Md. must revise map for 2020 congressional elections

    A federal appeals panel has found that Maryland’s 6th Congressional District dilutes the impact of Republican voters and that the state, therefore, must implement a revised map for the 2020 election. The panel said the map gave the district 24,000 more Democratic voters and 66,000 fewer Republican voters.

    Maryland should appeal that and get some good law on the books for us.

  104. 104
    Geoboy says:

    “If Rudi is actually dumb enough to try to do anything but get Judi’s signature on the NDA, he’s dumber, drunker and more senile than he seems on TeeVee.” Is that even possible? Asking for a friend.

  105. 105
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: Well that’s a relief!

  106. 106
    LAO says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s not uncommon for federal appeals court’s to ask for further briefing when issues arise — but still super interesting.

  107. 107
    SFAW says:

    @Martin:

    I’m guessing one of your pet phrases is “Go big, or go home.”

  108. 108
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    This one is really embarrassing. There’s video of him hawking some scam product. He was sued and he threatened the people he robbed.

    I think it’s hysterical that he’s the attorney general. Do you ever listen to Right wing media? They have this small set of products they sell- “the number bed!”, “my pillow!” – I cannot believe they took one of those people and gave him this job.

    Why do they have SO MANY bad people? They have a wealth of sleazy grifters. Liberals have like…5. Maybe bare double digits. Conservatives have thousands. They could hold a grifter convention in a huge hall. Newt Gingrich should be the keynote.

  109. 109
    Martin says:

    @tobie: Katie is very likely to win right now. There’s a ton of votes still to be counted here. I know that Katie is endorsed by Our Revolution, but I know her, and she doesn’t really fit that mold. She really is more of a Warren candidate, which in many ways is the very opposite side of the liberal wing.

  110. 110
    Ian G. says:

    Should mention that there was a sizable protest against the Sessions firing yesterday at the Nassau County executive office building. I’ve never seen a protest there before, as the immediate area is mostly older wealthy white Republicans albeit of the less wingnutty NY variety. Seeing 30-40 people out was cool.

  111. 111
    Mike in DC says:

    Whoever has standing to challenge the appointment of Whitaker can file suit to enjoin his appointment. Any criminal defendant indicted with his imprimatur, for example, would presumably have standing to challenge the legitimacy of his appointment.

  112. 112
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Martin: damn. I need a cigarette now.

  113. 113
    Martin says:

    @SFAW: Hey, if you’re gonna dream, go for it. Besides, there’s nothing completely implausible about my dream.

  114. 114
    SFAW says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Ditka could play every position, and coach, and be all the referees, and sell beer in the stands. And only Jesus could stop him.

    Nice try.

    Now, if you had said the team was composed of eleven L.T.’s, I would have been on board. Hell, even a defense with only six L.T’s would be enough.

  115. 115
    Martin says:

    @Kay:

    Why do they have SO MANY bad people?

    Because good people, and even marginally bad people, aren’t sufficiently corrupt to achieve conservative goals. The country is basically being run by a political mafia at this stage, and you only want people in there that you know have experience stabbing some guy in the neck behind a bar and taking his wallet.

  116. 116
    SFAW says:

    @Martin:

    Hey, if you’re gonna dream, go for it.

    No problem. I loved your scenario.

    Besides, there’s nothing completely implausible about my dream.

    Except that I can’t believe McConnell nor Cruz, scumbags tho’ they are, would ever find anything attractive enough about the other one to get romantically involved. But outside of that, I totally believe it.

  117. 117
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump: I don’t know Matt Whitaker

    This is only true in the Biblical sense.

    maybe.

  118. 118
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: If we’re lucky the replacement for Mattis will be GEN (ret) Keane. If we’re unlucky it’ll be Senator Cotton.

  119. 119
    bemused says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    In my fantasy world, WH press corps would boycott Trump and Sarah.

  120. 120
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: How’s your cold?

  121. 121
    BroD says:

    Stop the presses–for once, Trump told the truth!
    I totally believe he hasn’t a clue about…um…whatzisname.

  122. 122
    TenguPhule says:

    @cain:

    I’m really hoping he gets caught in a lie so bad that even his supporters would have cognitive dissonance.

    I too, dream of a perfect world.

  123. 123
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    but the government can’t function without the appointed constitutional officers in place to run it.

    With Trump this is always the feature, not the bug.

    He was always going to burn everything down and pull the USA in after him if he could. And nobody is going to stop him.

  124. 124
    tobie says:

    @Martin: Good for her. I mean that in all honesty. She did the brave thing, stepped up to the plate, and ran and it would be fantastic to see her efforts rewarded. It would also be a model for others to do the same. I haven’t heard Katie Porter speak so I don’t have any real impression of her but I have heard Tlaib, who strikes me as a poison pot and who benefited from a confusing primary. Again, good on Tlaib for educating her supporters about what they had to do. But I’m sick and tired of the endless encomiums to the ‘guy in the hard hat.’ Today’s working class laborers are home nursing assistants, warehouse workers, school aides, etc. We should be talking about them. And at some point we need to talk about what kinds of jobs one can expect in a developed economy in the future. I guess the latter will have to wait till 2020.

  125. 125
    TenguPhule says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    In my fantasy world, Trump does a sitdown interview on TV. Every lie he tells is immediately and ruthlessly exposed by the interviewer, with supporting evidence: contemporaneous news reports, Trump’s own statements, documentary evidence, the works. Trump is not allowed to leave the set. An hour of this would be … satisfying to watch.

    But that would still involve having to actually watch Trump alive and talking. For an hour.

  126. 126
    Immanentize says:

    @LAO:

    I was shocked that Christie has regained all of the weight after surgery.

    This is not fat shaming, but a very real medical conundrum. Obesity specialists study people like Christie intensely because weight reduction surgery is very high risk, but rarely lasts for even the medium term (think Limbaugh too). They actually have a word for patients after such surgery: “pre-obese” because the weight gain to previous is almost guaranteed. It is a very (sadly) predictable control group and therefore very useful for all types of clinical research.

  127. 127

    @Kent:

    I’d almost rather have an incompetent placeholder than a competent right wing racist running the place.

    I would completely rather have an incompetent placeholder. It’s one of the big reasons I’m not freaked out about Sessions leaving. Who’s going to replace him? Kobach, too stupid to run a meaningless advisory committee? Sessions had more imagination for evil, more idea of what’s possible, and more ability to get it done than any of his replacements possibly could.

    The other two reasons I’m not freaked out are that I was never depending on Mueller in the first place. I’d love to see many of these crooks in jail as possible, but he was never going to save us from Trump. And the time to fire Mueller was months ago. The charges are all in place, and someone else will fire them if Mueller doesn’t. The Democratic House is going to publicly dissect Trump.

    @Martin:

    Because good people, and even marginally bad people, aren’t sufficiently corrupt to achieve conservative goals.

    Not just that. A lot of Republicans at every level sincerely believe in conservative goals, as bizarre as that seems to us. They’re sadistic shits who have convinced themselves that hurting as many people as possible, especially brown people, makes them moral heroes. This deforms a person’s personality terribly. It invites incompetents, makes incompetents as they demand their own fantasy worlds, and makes it easy to convince themselves that corruption is their birthright. All of this has to be turned up past the point of sanity to get someone who gets their jollies at defunding Medicare. The ones who are even a little competent are miracles.

  128. 128
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah: I still can’t believe almost half of Florida’s voters thought he should be governor.

  129. 129
    patrick II says:

    @LAO:

    Also, the scuttlebutt around these parts, is that Whitaker is not trusted or respected by DOJ professionals

    Really?

  130. 130
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It is. And it is what Katyal predicted was going to happen yesterday.

  131. 131
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Better, thanks. Fever broke finally. Still really congested and colds always settle in my lungs so I’m sure I have more coughing in my future. My energy is better so that’s good.

    Can’t believe how fast this came on. I canvassed on Sunday and was fine. Sunday early evening I felt a slight tickle in my throat and a few hours later my throat was so sore I thought I had strep. I couldn’t sleep because it was so painful. Really weird.

  132. 132
    Ruviana says:

    @Kay: Rick Perlstein’s classic article.

  133. 133
    TenguPhule says:

    @patrick II:

    Really?

    Being one step removed from a felony for fraud might have something to do with that.

  134. 134
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Immanentize: also, Mike Huckabee, who before he gained the weight back after his own surgery (subsidized by the tax-payers of Arkansas) stood up and lectured people who wanted the government to take a more active role in guaranteeing health insurance that they couldn’t rely on, in a stunning lack of self-awareness, “Uncle Sugar” [ETA] and they needed to take personal responsibility for their health.

  135. 135
    Yarrow says:

    @tobie:

    Today’s working class laborers are home nursing assistants, warehouse workers, school aides, etc. We should be talking about them.

    Yes. Thank you for saying this. I’m so sick of the “guys in hard hats” being the only working class workers that count.

  136. 136
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Radiumgirl: My take on Christie is he’s an egomaniacal, self important asshole. But when it comes to Rule of Law stuff, he’s pretty much a straight shooter. Christie also is on record recently of thinking highly of Mueller. I would honestly not have much heartburn with Chris Christie as AG. I also think he’d likely stay out of the way because it is possible (I don’t know how probable) that Mueller indicts Jared. And this would please Christie a lot. The reason that Christie is not now the AG is because of Jared seeking revenge for Christie’s prosecution of Jared’s dad. These people all deserve each other.

  137. 137
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    There are thousands and thousands of people employed in this scam industry. It’s unsettling. You start to fear that no one has a real job. This is like a SECTOR at this point.

    What do you mean, ‘like’?

  138. 138
    Spanky says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Don’t forget this blast from the past:

    he Department of Homeland Security has detected in the Washington area what appears to be the unauthorized use of a controversial technology that allows for the surreptitious surveillance of people’s cellphones — though it has not been able to pinpoint who or what is causing it, the department revealed in a letter released Tuesday.

    The technology, a cell-tower simulator commonly known as a StingRay, has been deployed for years by federal and local law enforcement to pinpoint suspects’ locations, though its unauthorized use in the Washington area raises fears that foreign adversaries might also be taking advantage of it to spy on U.S. citizens.

    The simulators work by tricking cellphones nearby to register with them, rather than normal cell towers. Once the device finds the phone it is seeking, it can pinpoint the phone’s location. Some versions of the technology can also be used to eavesdrop on calls.

    (Last April 3, to be precise.)

  139. 139
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Martin:
    I kneel before your vastly superior fantasising.

  140. 140
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    My take on Christie is he’s an egomaniacal, self important asshole. But when it comes to Rule of Law stuff, he’s pretty much a straight shooter.

    wut.

    Did you forget about BridgeGate already? Christie is an asshole who thinks he’s above the law. He’s as a straight as a mobius strip.

  141. 141
    Ruviana says:

    @patrick II: I’ve seen that as well, that whatever one thinks of him the DOJ rank and file thought he was a good boss. They liked him as a boss however that played out. Those same people regarded Whitaker as Trump’s stooge and spy. They didn’t trust him. I can’t verify this at all, just the various comments on line and on MSNBC.

  142. 142
    tobie says:

    @Yarrow: Thank you! I really need to use some of the winter holiday to read up on what economists think labor will look like in the future. Any recommendations, BJers? It’s a painful topic in some ways. Frightening to see how many trades, my own included, are becoming superfluous, but playing ostrich isn’t going to help.

  143. 143
    TenguPhule says:

    @Yarrow:

    Whitaker’s life is going to get worse and worse. His best bet is to get out now before his life gets destroyed.

    I’ll take that bet and place it on “life destroyed.”

  144. 144
    Mandalay says:

    @jonas:

    And naturally there had to be a Green Party candidate in there…

    The Green Party is there because the Democrats have failed on environmental issues. They may be better than Republicans, but so what? That is setting the bar really low.

    The argument that the Green Party (or anyone else, such as Nader, or BLM in 2016) should deferentially step aside and not be an inconvenience in an election because it harms the Democratic Party is odious. If Democrats want the Green Party to stop being a threat to them in elections the solution is pretty obvious, and it is 100% in their own hands.

    And as Angela Green correctly said:

    “No 3rd party candidate should have to endure accusations of being ‘spoilers’ just because the ‘winner takes all’ two party system is severely broken,” Green’s website said on Wednesday. “This is a complete travesty. It’s time for change.”

  145. 145
    Couldn't Stand the Weather says:

    LULz.

    Rachel Maddow cuts in with breaking news that reports are that both Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz have died in some kind of romantic murder/suicide involving a bacon-wrapped AR-15, which, under some obscure Senate rule means that Democrats now run the Senate.

    Then pan the camera to Lawrence O’Donnell in the Rose Garden watching law enforcement arrest Wilbur Ross on 97 counts of embezzlement, wire fraud, insider trading and square dance calling.

  146. 146
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kay:

    Newt Gingrich should be the keynote.

    Only if they given him a six figure speaking fee, first class airfare, and deluxe accommodations.

  147. 147
    Immanentize says:

    @Steve in the ATL: That case has already been to the show once — Returned after the Supreme Court kinda punted on the partisan gerrymandering issue.

  148. 148
    Ken says:

    @Mandalay: I like Maine’s solution, of the “instant runoff” AKA single transferrable vote system.

  149. 149
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    The Green Party is there because the Democrats have failed on environmental issues. They may be better than Republicans, but so what? That is setting the bar really low.

    I’m gonna assume Poe’s law here as the best possible interpretation of this.

  150. 150
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Spanky: I did a front page post about it. And a more recent one about the more recent reporting that the President is calling people on his unsecured iPhone at night from the residence.

  151. 151
    Manyakitty says:

    @Mandalay: Until third parties make significant gains in state and local races, they’ll never be more than novelties, cranks, and spoilers. Put in the work, build the infrastructure, and try again.

  152. 152
    chopper says:

    @Roger Moore:

    it’s hard to find people who are willing to get on a sinking ship.

  153. 153
    The Moar You Know says:

    The Green Party is there because the Democrats have failed on environmental issues.

    @Mandalay: Demonstrably not true. The Green Party in the United States is a wholly funded subsidiary of the Republican Party. That is not speculation. That is proven fact, in court of law.

    Now, I get it. I think Dems should do the same thing, buy out the Tea Party or something like that. It’s a great way to siphon off what would be the most dedicated supporters of the other party.

    But don’t pretend these people are anything other than what they are. GOP-paid leaders scamming those ignorant or desperate enough to believe the lies they’re being told.

  154. 154
    Immanentize says:

    @Mandalay: Just so I am clear about your position — it is better for the environment and the future of the planet to have a Republican Senator than a Democratic Senator because the two party system is imperfect?

  155. 155
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: There’s a difference between politics when you’re running for reelection and how he approached being a US attorney. In the former I expect him to do things like the bridge crap. In the latter, my understanding, was he was a pretty bog standard GOP appointed US attorney.

  156. 156
    Manyakitty says:

    @Immanentize: I believe that is the purity pony song and dance.

  157. 157
    TenguPhule says:

    @Ken:

    . What did Whitaker do that caused Trump to deny knowing him?

    Involved with a firm involved in a massive fraud and stupid enough to threaten one of the victims of said fraud by email. Which was of course saved for all eternity on the intetubes.

  158. 158
    Kay says:

    Matea Gold
    ‏Verified account
    @mateagold
    Follow Follow @mateagold
    More
    Said one former World Patent Marketing customer who lost $77,000 of Whitaker: “It’s really upsetting to know that guy will be attorney general. It’s so offensive. It’s like a stab in the back.”

    World Patent Marketing! Ivanka could have invented that. It’s a perfect fit for the Trumps.

    This is mean and it’s just my experience but I have noticed over the years that both scammers and their marks are terrible- the scammers are bad but the marks are also bad- they are greedy or they think they’re stealing from someone else…it’s so often a transaction between two horrible people that you end up hating both the perp and the victim.

  159. 159
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    the only thing that baffles me is that Flake never gets mad enough to actually do something

    Donald J. Trump @ realDonaldTrump
    Jeff Flake(y) doesn’t want to protect the Non-Senate confirmed Special Counsel, he wants to protect his future after being unelectable in Arizona for the “crime” of doing a terrible job! A weak and ineffective guy!
    9:10 AM – 9 Nov 2018

    though at this point, i don’t know what he could do– unless McConnell tries something big in this lameduck session, and even then he’d have to get another R to play along

  160. 160
    Ken says:

    @tobie: The science fiction writers have got that covered. I’d prefer a post-scarcity society such as Iain Bank’s Culture, where humans don’t need to work at all because all production is automated. Getting there is the tricky part.

  161. 161
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “with Jesus as his receiver they’d beat an all-Ditka defense coached by Tom Landry”

    Ditka was a Tight End as a player and wasn’t much of a coach. Buddy Ryan was the Defensive Coordinator for the Bears Super Bowl team and responsible for the excellent defense.

    Dick Butkus was the legendary Bears linebacker.

  162. 162
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There’s a difference between politics when you’re running for reelection and how he approached being a US attorney. In the former I expect him to do things like the bridge crap. In the latter, my understanding, was he was a pretty bog standard GOP appointed US attorney.

    His AG days are long behind him. His criminal behavior was much more recent.

  163. 163

    @The Moar You Know:

    Demonstrably not true.

    Purity ponies live in a fantasy world arguing against their own imaginary Democratic Party whose policies have no resemblance to the actual one. If you lay out concrete Democratic positions as good or better than their own, they either refuse to acknowledge it or brush it off as pretending. There is no more point in arguing with them than arguing with right wingers, although in both cases you could posit that it’s an excuse to spread little known truths to less biased observers.

    That the boom we’ve seen in renewable energy in the last ten years owes a heavy debt to Obama stuffing the Stimulus full of research grants, for example, is lost on them. Man, was there a huge technology leap thanks to that.

  164. 164
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He could announce he was caucusing with the Democrats for the next two months, which would put an end to McConnell’s court packing for a bit.

  165. 165
    Mandalay says:

    @Immanentize:

    Just so I am clear about your position — it is better for the environment and the future of the planet to have a Republican Senator than a Democratic Senator because the two party system is imperfect?

    Just so I am clear about your position — it is better that we formally move to a two party system, and all other parties should be banned from participating in elections?

  166. 166
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Immanentize: @Manyakitty: It’s like the IIRC 25 YO who said he couldn’t bring himself to vote for Clinton because the Democrats hadn’t done anything under Obama. He’s too dumb to know he’s still eligible for his parents’ health insurance, too socially cosseted to even be aware of Medicaid.

  167. 167
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    He could announce he was caucusing with the Democrats for the next two months, which would put an end to McConnell’s court packing for a bit.

    Hahahah, oh Adam you kidder you. //

  168. 168
    Mandalay says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    The Green Party in the United States is a wholly funded subsidiary of the Republican Party. That is not speculation. That is proven fact, in court of law.

    Oh really? This is what Angela Geen had to say on that accusation:

    If that was the case that would’ve been a nice deal for me, I spent less than $1000 on my campaign and was laid off in the process. That funding would’ve come in handy to win against Sinema as a Dem and then beat McSally on my own.#RankedChoiceVoting #yeswewillmakeadifference

  169. 169
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    Just so I am clear about your position — it is better that we formally move to a two party system, and all other parties should be banned from participating in elections?

    Dear Gods, you were serious?

  170. 170
    cain says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    In my fantasy world, Trump does a sitdown interview on TV. Every lie he tells is immediately and ruthlessly exposed by the interviewer, with supporting evidence: contemporaneous news reports, Trump’s own statements, documentary evidence, the works. Trump is not allowed to leave the set. An hour of this would be … satisfying to watch.

    It wouldn’t work, he would throw it back on them saying they were rude, or it’s all fake news and he’ll get more and more agitated. The media will tut-tut about tone or some stupid stuff like that and then the NYT will write navel gazing article about WWC not liking all this division.

  171. 171
    debbie says:

    @tobie:

    I’ve listened to Ryan a couple times. I have no idea what his background and experience are, but he seems to be putting himself forward as the next Newt Gingrich. A legend in his own mind.

  172. 172
    Mandalay says:

    @Manyakitty:

    Until third parties make significant gains in state and local races, they’ll never be more than novelties, cranks, and spoilers. Put in the work, build the infrastructure, and try again.

    If Democrats took environmental issues more seriously the Green Party would not be threat to them in any election.

  173. 173
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Mandalay: that is not even close to what he said and you know it. Either admit that your position is wrong or steel yourself for more well-earned mockery and derision.

    If the greens actually wanted to move the needle, they would try to coopt the Democratic Party like the tea party did the republicans.

    Whether you like it or not (and personally I don’t like it), we have a two party system. Third parties are either morons or ratfuckers.

  174. 174
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    That funding would’ve come in handy to win against Sinema as a Dem

    That’s not how spoilers work. Siphon off just enough to make the second place person lose.

    And its Green, not Geen btw.

  175. 175
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I was just listening to a foreign affairs hour on NPR, and three foreign correspondents were getting emotional about the continued state of Iraq 15 years after the invasion, and here is someone still justifying Ralph Fucking Nader’s “not a dime’s worth of difference” horseshit. Bernie Sanders and/or Michael Moore are on MSNBC at least once a week, with the bloated emo-prog fawningly hosted by the Establshmentarian Lawrence O’Donnell.

    This really is how we got trump.

  176. 176
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Third parties are either morons or ratfuckers.

    Porque Los Dos?

  177. 177
    MomSense says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I read that as Trump does a shit down interview. Seemed completely plausible.

  178. 178
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    If Democrats took environmental issues more seriously the Green Party would not be threat to them in any election.

    If Green Parties took elections seriously Republicans wouldn’t have wrecked the environmental regulations as badly as they have.

  179. 179
    cain says:

    @Martin:

    In my fantasy world, Trump does a sitdown interview on TV. Every lie he tells is immediately and ruthlessly exposed by the interviewer, with supporting evidence: contemporaneous news reports, Trump’s own statements, documentary evidence, the works. Trump is not allowed to leave the set. An hour of this would be … satisfying to watch.

    This seems like a napkin and a hot shower was done after this. :-)

  180. 180
    jc says:

    @cain: “If i was an investor of a business, I would be asking some aggressive questions.”

    Apparently this country is now being run like a very ethically shady business. All’s fair in war and business, in Trump’s mind. If you’ve gotta cheat to win, so be it. Controlling the optics is the important part. Snuff the Mueller probe quietly behind the scenes. Fake Attorney General. Fake President.

  181. 181
    debbie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Well, that and the racism that is at the heart of this country.

  182. 182
    cain says:

    @trollhattan:

    Stinks that that very community is now threatened by fire. And in other fire news, the Camp Fire grew to 70,000 acres overnight and threatens Chico.

    Oh crap, I have friends in Chico! Also a great spice place there.

  183. 183
    Manyakitty says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Just so. Novelty acts, cranks, and spoilers.

  184. 184
    Manyakitty says:

    @Mandalay: Disingenuous. Also, you didn’t address the comment you quoted. Try again.

  185. 185
    catclub says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Sam Clovis has now come out and stated

    Did Clovis make any good points?

  186. 186
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @TenguPhule: i considered that, but i think that ratfucking is a conscious and intentional act, like Russians and republicans funding the Green Party, whereas many Green Party members might mean well but are too moronic to see that their actions are harming their pet causes.

  187. 187
    catclub says:

    @TenguPhule: Porque NO Los Dos.

  188. 188
    Yarrow says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Useful idiots don’t think they’re idiots.

  189. 189
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @MCA1: Why do you hate Ted Danson?

  190. 190
    Mandalay says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    If the greens actually wanted to move the needle, they would try to coopt the Democratic Party like the tea party did the republicans.

    You mean like when Hillary Clinton’s public response to BLM was “All lives matter.”? When BLM started making life uncomfortable for her during the campaign the supposed liberals and progressives here crawled out from behind the woodwork are started telling BLM to shut up and fuck off.

    The Green Party are under no obligation to bow to your wishes and “coopt the Democratic Party” just because that is what you want, and attempting to change the system from within would be a recipe for disaster for the Green Party.

    If the Democratic Party wants the Green Party to stop being a problem then they need to adopt better policies. If they do that the Green Party would fade away as a threat.

  191. 191
    Mike in DC says:

    @Mandalay: So, if the Democrats take the “correct” position on the environment, will the Greens decline to run a candidate and endorse the Dem nominee?

  192. 192
    catclub says:

    @Ken: I was surprised to see that hashtag for ranked choice voting in the tweet from Angela Green, given the atmosphere here. But it would get her a LOT more first round votes if it existed.

  193. 193
    mad citizen says:

    One day at costco a middle to older aged white guy was doing a MyPillow demo at costco. I said there was no way I would ever buy one due to the inventor’s right wing/Trump leanings. He started laughing, like he’d never heard this before. I said something about our country was in an emergency/shitshow and walked away. My wife has bought one and thinks I should, but there ain’t no way.

  194. 194
    Mandalay says:

    @Manyakitty:

    Disingenuous.

    Hardly – that is exactly my position. If the Democratic Party took environmental issues more seriously voters wouldn’t choose to vote for the Green Party.

  195. 195
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: One of the things I hate the most about the Trump regime is that it makes me have to think even *slightly* well of a sleazy pol like Christie! Who is a positively Nixonian character – but in Trumplandia, that’s almost a *good* thing! As in, “he’d be a step up from the usual low-quality Trump hires – he’d be a medium-quality hire!”

  196. 196
    Mandalay says:

    @Mike in DC:

    So, if the Democrats take the “correct” position on the environment, will the Greens decline to run a candidate and endorse the Dem nominee?

    If the Democrats took issues relating to the environment more seriously then the Green Party would not be a threat to them. As with the Tea Party and BLM, the Green Party is voicing concerns that are not being properly addressed by either major party. It sucks if you don’t like them, but that’s democracy in action.

  197. 197
    Amir Khalid says:

    @mad citizen:
    Johnny Cougar has been going by his real name, John Mellencamp, for 35 years now.

  198. 198
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    As with the Tea Party

    Oh my god. I thought this one had hit bottom using the dead of BLM to defend Ralph Nader, now s/he’s equating BLM to the racist Tea Baggers.

  199. 199
    Kent says:

    @Mandalay:

    If Democrats took environmental issues more seriously the Green Party would not be threat to them in any election.

    All democratic systems involve compromise. The only difference is where that compromise is found.

    In the US with a winner-take-all system the meaningful fights and compromises happen at the party level in creating party platforms and within party primaries. There is plenty of environmental advocacy in the Democratic Party at all levels. But of course there’s also Mitch McConnell

    In European Parliamentary systems the compromise happens when governing coalitions are formed. One could argue about whether environmentalists in the Democratic Party in the US had more influence over Obama Administration policy compared to say how much the Green Party in Germany influenced Angela Merkel’s government over the past decade.

    You have to know where the levers of power are in this country. If you want to have a meaningful influence on the direction of US policy then the levers of power are within the two major parties. Anything else is just pissing in the wind and ratfucking.

  200. 200
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    and attempting to change the system from within would be a recipe for disaster for the Green Party.

    So, Terrorism then?

    If the Democratic Party wants the Green Party to stop being a problem then they need to adopt better policies. If they do that the Green Party would fade away as a threat.

    Yup, Terrorism.

  201. 201
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mandalay: Couldn’t it work the other way around too, i.e., if Green Party voters joined the Democratic Party and worked within it to push for sane environmental policies instead of voting for spoilers and cranks who have ZERO chance of winning, maybe the Democratic Party would take environmental issues more seriously?

    ETA: Never mind. I see you provided an incorrect, insulting, inane and childish response to a similar question at #190. No reason to repeat that exercise.

  202. 202
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    If the Democrats took issues relating to the environment more seriously then the Green Party would not be a threat to them.

    The Democrats fought tooth and nail to protect the Arctic Wildlife refuge from GW Bush.

    Trump just fucking opened it up for drilling.

    Tell me how this furthers the Green party’s goals?

  203. 203
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Martin: A gif for you for this fantasy & the laugh.

  204. 204
    Yarrow says:

    @Betty Cracker: I think this tactic is part of what got young people out to vote this election. I saw a lot more of the “Why do you think the elected officials will listen to you when you don’t show up to vote for them?’ arguments this time around. When you’re someone they have to deal with, rather than just an annoying gadfly on the outside, they’ll pay attention to you.

  205. 205
    SFAW says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Couldn’t it work the other way around too, i.e., if Green Party voters joined the Democratic Party and worked within it to push for sane environmental policies instead of voting for spoilers and cranks who have ZERO chance of winning, maybe the Democratic Party would take environmental issues more seriously?

    Oh, cut it out. You know perfectly well that the Democraps and Republicans are exactly the same, that there’s no difference, and that if Al Gore had been elected, all the bankers and CEOs would be running the country, etc.

    By the way, I have a spare Mumia sweatshirt, can I send it to you?

  206. 206
    SFAW says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Tell me how this furthers the Green party’s goals?

    “Because, Reasons”

  207. 207
    MCA1 says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: It’s like you and SFAW have never seen Saturday Night Live. Just Google Bears Superfans and you’ll get the joke here. ;^)

  208. 208
    SFAW says:

    @MCA1:

    Yeah, I’ve seen the Superfans sketch. 30 years ago. I guess if Jim had made a joke about Adlai Stevenson, I probably would not have made an immediate mental link to a Mort Sahl routine, either.

    ETA: And besides, the comment here talked about Tom Landry coaching, which is hardly a Superfans bit.

  209. 209
    wasabi gasp says:

    Trump really grinds my beans cuz he, allegedly, knows words, has the best words, yet will repeat the same shitty words over and over and over again every 5 fucking seconds.

  210. 210
    MCA1 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Fair point. I’m thinking of his character on The Good Place, I guess, who would relish that eternal gig, not the man himself. Maybe he could start us off for a couple years, then Morgan Freeman takes his place, then Obama, then Alyssa Milano, etc.

  211. 211
    mad citizen says:

    @Amir Khalid: Oh yes, I know that, I’m a lifelong Hoosier. But I was going with–and was even correct–the assumption that that album used the made up name his management forced upon him (I did spell nothin/nuthin wrong): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothin%27_Matters_and_What_If_It_Did

    John’s in the news–engaged to Meg Ryan. Surely he is one of our most succesful Hoosier men ever, what with marrying a model, being with Christie Brinkley, and two go-rounds with Meg Ryan.

  212. 212
    Mandalay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Couldn’t it work the other way around too

    Even if that was viable (i.e. change the Democratic Party from within), that is a long term approach.

    Being a spoiler in elections may be a far more effective approach for bringing about change in the policies of the Democratic Party. If Sinema ends up losing in Arizona by less than the Green Party vote then you can bet that the Democratic Party will be taking a long hard look at why they lost votes to the Green Party.

    (O/T: It’s odd that you referred to those pushing for “sane environmental policies” as “cranks”.)

  213. 213
    SFAW says:

    @Mike in DC:

    So, if the Democrats take the “correct” position on the environment, will the Greens decline to run a candidate and endorse the Dem nominee?

    Good one!

  214. 214
    Hitlesswonder says:

    @Yarrow: I agree. It’s a racket. But “feuding spouses” is apparently infotainment catnip. The story writes itself.

  215. 215
    SFAW says:

    @Mandalay:

    Being a spoiler in elections may be a far more effective approach for bringing about change in the policies of the Democratic Party.

    But even more important, it allows them to demonstrate their purity of … ideals, motive, or something.

  216. 216
    sukabi says:

    @Yarrow: “hardhats” are important to the press because they enable the continuation of the status quo, and besides you wouldn’t want to over burden the ‘writers’ with having to do actual research and find new folks to interview would you? They’ve got their story, the same one they’ve had for 50 years, you want them to change it now?

    😜😝😖😵

  217. 217
    ellie says:

    @Yarrow: This happened to me, too. The day before Halloween I went for a run, dropped the ballots off at the drop off box, and went to the store. I walked in the house with the groceries and BAM, my throat was painfully sore. I had to go to the doctor’s office this past Monday because I wasn’t getting better. I am now, but it is slow going.

  218. 218
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mandalay: Well, the Greens sure showed that stuffy old Al Gore whut fer, and America’s environmental policies have improved every year since, so I guess you’re right!

  219. 219
    Mandalay says:

    @Betty Cracker: Since you position appears to be that Green Party are just cranks, it is understandable that that is the kind of conclusion you would draw.

  220. 220
    Kelly says:

    @catclub:

    Did Clovis make any good points?

    I saw what you did there;-)

  221. 221
    J R in WV says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Whether you like it or not (and personally I don’t like it), we have a two party system. Third parties are either morons or ratfuckers.

    Correction: Third parties are morons and ratfuckers!

    Here we’ve got the Mountaineer Party, the Green Party AND the Libertarian party. Dunno what the Venn diagram would look like.

  222. 222
    PJ says:

    @Mandalay: You might not have noticed, but Congress has been controlled by Republicans for 14 of the last 18 years, and the White House has been controlled by them for 10 of those years. Pray tell, if the Greens were No. 2, what sweeping environmental regulations would the Greens have been able to enact in that time period? Where Democrats do have power, as in California, they’ve enacted better emissions standards. What the hell would the Greens have done, or been able to do, any differently?

    The Green Party has no real program for attaining electoral power in this country. If they really wanted to establish themselves, they would focus on local elections and align themselves with Democratic candidates in larger races, as the Working Families Party does in New York. Instead, the Greens just want to make themselves feel superior and, in Jill Stein’s case, dine out on Vlad’s ruble.

  223. 223
    Tenar Arha says:

    @Mandalay:
    Of course Greens have the right to vote as they wish.

    But, I’ve studied enough American History to know that “successful” 3rd parties usually end up pushing for specific policies, then willingly get co-opted back into the major parties. We may be at a potential realignment that includes a destructive inflection point for the GOP, but bc of our government structures & lots more, there’s been no new major political parties since the 1850’s. And there’s little that can be done by running for President to fix that.

    The Green Party could accept these facts, & instead of reaching for federal matching funds & running for President or as 3rd parties each cycle
    1) start smaller at the state legislature, county & city level by using running in the primaries as “Green Democrats”
    &/
    2) work at the grassroots to get ranked choice voting implemented in more states besides Maine
    &/
    3) if they win as Democrats create a Green Caucus at their State or Congressional level
    &/
    4) call their reps and also pressure then their Democratic Reps. to join the Green Caucus

    Isn’t that what’s happening w the Socialists et al who’ve run in primaries to the left (depending on their district) by calling themselves Social Democrats?

    Anyway, that’s my historically inclined two cents.

    ETA & If it’s unclear, I’m saying: We need you guys, join the party & push us to be better faster from the inside.

  224. 224
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mandalay: Not all Greens are cranks — I know some local ones who’ve accomplished a hell of a lot. But people like Jill Stein and Ralph Nader are spoilers and cranks who’ve done immeasurable harm to America.

  225. 225
    wasabi gasp says:

    Why don’t people just fall in line? What’s wrong with them?

  226. 226
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    Being a spoiler in elections may be a far more effective approach for bringing about change in the policies of the Democratic Party.

    “Once the fascists take over, we can ignite the people’s revolution to do things our way!”

    This is not a plan. This is a bong hit gone bad.

  227. 227
    TenguPhule says:

    @J R in WV:

    Here we’ve got the Mountaineer Party, the Green Party AND the Libertarian party. Dunno what the Venn diagram would look like.

    A flat line going right.

  228. 228
    Manyakitty says:

    @Mandalay: You still didn’t address the comment.

  229. 229
    chopper says:

    @Kay:

    those inventor scam companies would be hilarious if they weren’t so predatory, but it’s just fucking goofy that one of those guys is now the AG of this country.

  230. 230
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mandalay:

    Even if that was viable (i.e. change the Democratic Party from within), that is a long term approach.

    Which is hard. And takes actual effort.

    Shitting in the pool is so much simpler and delivers exciting results right away.

  231. 231
    chopper says:

    @catclub:

    “por qué”, actually.

  232. 232
    Gwangung says:

    @TenguPhule: Not to mention that was how white evangelicals took over the Republican Party.

    Mustn’t do to copy other successful tactics.

  233. 233
    Manyakitty says:

    @Mandalay:

    Being a spoiler in elections may be a far more effective approach for bringing about change in the policies of the Democratic Party. If Sinema ends up losing in Arizona by less than the Green Party vote then you can bet that the Democratic Party will be taking a long hard look at why they lost votes to the Green Party.

    Exactly my point. This will not help the Greens at all. Instead, it only reconfirms their role as unserious cranks and spoilers. ONE MORE TIME, build an infrastructure, join the Democrats and work hard for change from within, or just STFU.

  234. 234
    Gwangung says:

    @Manyakitty: Dems will likely not look to the Greens as viable targets; by their behavior, they’ve shown they won’t vote for Democrats even when they share similar goals and policies, AS TESTIFIED BY THEIR OWN CANDIDATE.

  235. 235
    Manyakitty says:

    @Gwangung: Right. They’re mostly spoiled brats throwing tantrums, with nothing to offer for people trying to accomplish something.

  236. 236
  237. 237
    wasabi gasp says:

    The Venn diagram of third party whingers and Clinton dead-enders is a perfect circle.

  238. 238
    Mike in DC says:

    @Mandalay: You didn’t directly answer the question. If the primary motivation of the Greens is to ensure better, stronger environmental policy, and the Democrats(who are far more politically viable at the electoral politics level) take up their platform, how do the Greens reward that? Do they drop out and endorse the Democrats that year, or do they run candidates anyway, still taking away at least a few votes that might otherwise go to the now-environmentally conscious Democrats?

  239. 239
    Mike in DC says:

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, for some reason they don’t trumpet that as one of their greatest victories…denying Al Gore the presidency.

  240. 240
    Barney says:

    One month ago, on national TV (Fox tonguebath), literally: “I know Matt Whitaker”: https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/busted-trump-denies-knowing-matt-whitaker-one-month-saying-know-matt-whitaker-fox-interview/

    When asked about whether he had talked to Whitaker about firing Sessions. Plus:

    It was Clovis, no stranger to TV and radio himself, who encouraged Whitaker to get a regular commentary gig on cable television to get President Donald Trump’s attention, according to friends who Whitaker told at the time. Whitaker was hired as a CNN legal commentator last year for several months, before leaving the role in September 2017 to head to the Justice Department as chief of staff to now-former Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

    Through his CNN role, where he was deeply critical of the Mueller probe, Whitaker got to know Trump, who saw him on TV and later met in person.

    “He worships him,” a longtime friend said of Whitaker and Trump.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/07/politics/whitaker-sessions-mueller-clovis/index.html

  241. 241
    SFAW says:

    @Mike in DC:

    denying Al Gore the presidency.

    Well, in fairness to the Greens, it was not as if Al Gore gave two shits about the environment, and Nader focused “like a laser beam” on Gore’s history of being an anti-environmentalist. And it’s not as if Nader tried to peddle the bullshit meme that there was no difference between the Dems and Republicans.

    Had Nader done that, one might call their sincerity/purity into question.

    ETA: And besides, Gore should have won Florida by, like, 2 billion votes, and he should have mopped up in his Deep Blue home state. So there, libtard!

  242. 242
  243. 243
    Ruckus says:

    @LAO:
    I wonder if Christie had the same doc as drumpf? If drumpf weighs 239 lbs, Christie’s “surgery” could be just as fake.

  244. 244
    sargus says:

    Americans voted for this or didn’t bother to vote at all (50%). Own it! This is who you are.

  245. 245
    Aziz, light! says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Tell me how this furthers the Green party’s goals?

    It does wonders for their primary goal of feeling good about themselves.

  246. 246
    Radiumgirl says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks. I do wonder if Trump would seriously consider Christie, or whether by considering him, he’s giving Jared a shiv — I am with you, Chris Christie in the job would be less concerning to me because I think Christie would not expose himself to prosecution for obstruction.

  247. 247
    sdhays says:

    @Mandalay:

    If the Democrats took issues relating to the environment more seriously then the Green Party would not be a threat to them. As with the Tea Party and BLM, the Green Party is addressing a concern that is not being properly addressed by either major party.

    I don’t typically like to be this rude, but that’s just incredibly stupid. The enemy of the environment is the Republican Party. Their actual platform is poisoning everything they can get their hands on. If you are truly concerned about the environment, then you should be finding ways to be a threat to the Republican Party. I question the sincerity of anyone who refuses to understand that.

    Losing elections makes Democrats hedge on what the electorate is willing to tolerate. We would see much, much more aggressive environmental policy if Democrats were winning large majorities. The proof is in states with Democratic majorities like California. If Republicans were losing elections, then they would be the ones doing the hedging on their platform of poison. Every time the Green Party costs a Democrat an election, they empower the Republican Party and remain completely irrelevant to policy.

    Bitching about your pet cause, regardless of how important it may be, doesn’t help your cause (no matter what system you’re in). You have to be an influential part of a governing coalition, and the only viable vehicle for governing coalitions in the United States are the two major parties. Choosing not participate is your right, but it’s guaranteed to not be effective in achieving your purported goals.

  248. 248
    SFAW says:

    @sdhays:
    Excellent points. My only quibble is with this one

    Choosing not participate is your right, but it’s guaranteed to not be effective in achieving your purported goals.

    The Greens are choosing to participate. Unfortunately for the country, they choose to participate by screwing the party which is their philosophical ally, because that ally is giving less than 100 percent of what they want, when they want it. And, as always, the response to that childishness should be, in the immortal words of TBogg:

    Grow the fuck up.

  249. 249
    J R in WV says:

    @wasabi gasp:

    The Venn diagram of third party whingers and Clinton dead-enders is a perfect circle.

    Define your terms!

    What the hell is a “Clinton dead-ender”?

    For that matter, what’s a “third party whinger”?

    Otherwise, I know how Venn diagrams work just fine.

  250. 250

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