Schadenfreude Open Thread: “HUAC! – the Musical”, Reviews Not Good

As the tag goes: Riveted by the sociological significance…

Up till now, Nixon’s ‘You won’t have Dick Nixon to kick around any more’ speech was supposed to be the exemplar of national-stage political self-pity. Trump’s press conference yesterday bids fair to unseat it. Per ace Trump-rally reporter Daniel Dale:

116 replies
  1. 1
    wasabi gasp says:

    The midterm result was a dead cat bounce.

  2. 2

    I am waking up to news coming out of California of a mass shooting at a bar that was hosting a College Night. So, you know, another goddamn angry guy expressing his Second Amendment right to shoot everybody. >:(

  3. 3
    wasabi gasp says:

    Dedicated to Jeff Flake:

    Faust – The Sad Skinhead

  4. 4
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @PaulWartenberg: And nothing will change. As long as Republicans are in control, there will be no sensible gun reform legislation out of Congress. Democrats can try something when they are seated in January.

    May those who were murdered in California R.I.P.

  5. 5
    Raven says:

    11 dead not 11 shot.

  6. 6
    JPL says:

    @PaulWartenberg: Eleven dead and another twelve taken to local hospitals. Another day in america.

  7. 7
    Quinerly says:

    @PaulWartenberg: been awake here in St. Louis since 3:30 and was trying to pull it together to face any Mueller news. Just turned on MSNBC. 11 victims. Want to hid under my comforter with Poco and John Lennon, fearless rescue kitty.

  8. 8
  9. 9
    Quinerly says:

    29 year police veteran dead. Few months away from retirement.

  10. 10
    JPL says:

    @Quinerly: That’s become my normal wake up time. At least this morning I was able to go back to sleep for another two hours.

  11. 11
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  12. 12
    rikyrah says:

    Oh no. Just hearing the news😢😢😢

  13. 13
    rikyrah says:

    Morning to Poco and the tribe 😄😺

  14. 14
    wasabi gasp says:

    @rikyrah: Everyone minus 13

  15. 15
    geg6 says:

    Damn. News from CA is horrible. Those poor kids and cop. Fucking guns!

  16. 16
    Quinerly says:

    @rikyrah: waves, tail wags, soft meows back at you. My day has started. Poco not budging from the bed right now. Slight grunt. Strong Irish Black Tea from Trader Joe’s. Addicted to this stuff.

  17. 17
    OzarkHillbilly says:


  18. 18
    JPL says:

    One survivor of the shooting last night also survived the Las Vegas shooting.

  19. 19
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: I awoke at my usual time, 3:13. DST.

  20. 20
    JPL says:

    Jim Acosta’s press credentials was removed by the white house. Trump and Sarah Sanders made up a phony excuse that he grabbed the white house intern when went for his microphone. Video disproves that.
    And trump continues to act like dictators that he admires.

  21. 21
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: God has declared that this one person should die, everybody else is just collateral damage.

  22. 22
    A Ghost To Most says:

    It’s the end of the world
    As we know it
    (And I feel fine)

  23. 23
    Tony Jay says:

    Now for the latest in a long series of pointless online rants about the awfulness of the BBC’s coverage of American politics and other issues, yet more head-meets-desk fuckery from BBC Radio 4 News this morning on the way to work.

    Apparently Tuesday night was a terrible night for Democrats, really, really disappointing, since their whole strategy revolved around Georgia and Florida. It wasn’t a Blue Wave, more of a Blue Trickle (hearty chuckle), because ‘everyone’ was saying that Republicans were going to disappear from the landscape and Democrats were going to take the entire House and win a supermajority in the Senate. Evidence for this? Well here are quotes from the Washington Times, various conservative blogs, the NYT and Administration officials. Can’t get clearer than that, can you?

    Followed by a segment where a right-wing loudmouth (Toby Jones) who was forced to step down from a Government appointed public post because of a long history of really offensive public vileness was brought in to explain why the calls for another right-wing (misogynistic, homophobic, anti-semitic) loudmouth (Roger Scruton) to be denied a Government appointed public post because of a long history of really offensive public vileness are yet more evidence that poor, downtrodden, white-male conservatives are being criminally hounded by relentless left-wing hypocrites for straying from ‘Progressive Groupthink’.

    Next up, President Trump has fired an underling who he says persistently let him down. Here to discuss why that’s just fine and the Democrats are wrong to complain, please welcome the esteemed Professor Alan Dershowitz…

    Then I turned it off. It’s getting worse and worse. Can you possibly guess the line they’re taking over whether or not the Democrats should hold any investigations whatsoever into Trump’s many crimes? Nah, you don’t have to guess. Just read any random column on the topic from your favourite ‘centrist’ both-sider and you’ll have it in full.

    Bleeeaugh! I’m paying for this shit.

  24. 24
    zhena gogolia says:


    Yeah, this week’s mass shooting. JFC.

  25. 25
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Tony Jay:

    OMG, that is horrible. I had no idea! So the BBC is now Fox minus Sean Hannity, you’re telling us?

  26. 26
    p.a. says:

    Everyone get to Walcrap to stock up on more thoughts and prayers. America’s growth industry.

  27. 27
    zhena gogolia says:

    In other news, Possum Queen has put out a doctored video to prove that Acosta assaulted the White House aide who was grabbing the mike from him:

  28. 28
    debbie says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    That doesn’t look like a karate chop to her arm to you? //

  29. 29
    TS (the original) says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I have never liked the wall to wall coverage on TV news of multiple killing events, but it seems that trump has even take that off the air. the murders in CA get a 60 second spot in between wall to wall coverage of trump on MJ. As someone said in reply to your tweet They have changed the subject from Sessions to Acosta. and now, not even mass murder can turn the topic away from trump.

    When a shooting happened under President Obama – the media was up in arms, calling for him to “do something” and calling out the President because it was happening under his watch. With trump – the media don’t even expect a thoughts and prayers tweet any more.

  30. 30
    debbie says:


    I loved his line that the Republicans who lost, lost because they didn’t “embrace” him. Eeeew.

  31. 31
    wasabi gasp says:

    @zhena gogolia: That clip missed the part where Acosta tore off her arm and sucked out the marrow.

  32. 32
    Tony Jay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    It’s just appallingly bad. When they do a deeper piece you occasionally get elements of reality peeking in past the inflammatory headline and can learn something interesting, but they are always presented as the ‘contrarian’ POV in opposition to the main editorially-mandated (I can only presume from the relentlessness of it) adherence to ‘Dems in Disarray’ storylines and the constant parade of Heritage Foundation/former Administration Official/conservative intellectual RWNJs they put up as ‘experts’.

    It’s like everything bad I ever hear you guys saying about NPR, but with cheery British accents.

  33. 33
    Another Scott says:

    @Tony Jay: I feel for you, but it’s nothing new AFAICS. Katy Kay anchors BBC America’s reporting quite often and she was a huge St. John McCain fan, etc etc.

    Read McCatchyDC if you want decent American politics coverage, but they mainly do long-form stuff (I think – it’s not a regular read for me).

    One has to be skeptical of all political coverage. It’s the nature of the beast. Let the BBC know that you are not happy, and hang in there.


  34. 34
    Elizabelle says:

    Tragic shooting overnight. Mass killing. 13 dead. Country Western bar as venue, I guess that part is kinda “new.”

    We can do something about this. A lot of our new Congress(women!!!) ran on better background checks and no bump stocks, and we can have the CDC begin funding studies of gun violence and deaths again, since it is a public health issue. Administration might not want to provide enough funding, but Dems hold the purse now, don’t they?

    We can make a start.

  35. 35
    Elizabelle says:

    WRT the fake “assault” accusation against Jim Acosta: I hope that will blow back badly upon Liar Sarah Sanders and the Administration.

    (1) Stop sending reporters to the press conference. Best to send no one, but extremely young interns will do (although, frankly, the WH might prefer them).

    (2) Fight back hard against the accusation. Call her a liar who doctored a tape.

    (3) Can Acosta and CNN sue for defamation? Because it’s all on tape, and what Sanders is saying is not what happened.

    Do not let these bad actions have no consequences.

    And starve the beast. Trump lives on attention. Turn it down.

  36. 36
    JPL says:

    Has trump tweeted about thoughts and prayers yet?

  37. 37
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Elizabelle: Democrats in the House should send gun legislation to the Senate. Keep the pressure up.

  38. 38
    Ken says:

    @JPL: He has neither.

  39. 39
    Baud says:


    Country Western bar as venue, I guess that part is kinda “new.”

    Las Vegas was a country concert, I believe.

  40. 40
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Tony Jay: Good God. I remember when people kept telling me the BBC’s coverage of US politics was far better than what we could get from US media. This sounds no better and possibly worse than average.

  41. 41
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: I’m going with OzarkHillbilly’s blech this morning.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @Tony Jay: The good people of the world desperately need their own media.

  43. 43
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    According to Vox, the caravan was only briefly mentioned once in yesterday on Fox.

  44. 44
    Elizabelle says:

    @Baud: True that. It’s alleged that one or more of the shot at tonight was also at the Las Vegas concert.

    “College Night.” WaPost reports witnesses say it was a tall figure, over 6 feet, clad in black. Lone shooter. Took out the bouncer and a cashier, a young man and woman, respectively, on the way in. Some escaped when he paused to reload.

    We have to stop this. We must.

  45. 45
    rikyrah says:

    This is why I don’t want to hear anyone talking shyt about Nancy Smash.


  46. 46
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: The standings for the 2018 season:

    Mass Shooters- 310
    Thoughts and Prayers- 0

    Team Thoughts and Prayers are being slaughtered.

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: It’s being reported that some of the people in the bar were also in LV for that shooting.

  48. 48
    Raven says:

    @Elizabelle: it’s not a C&W bar, it’s a college hangout and it was C&W night.

  49. 49
    Baud says:


    I think they get a Trump commemorative coin if they survive one more shooting.

  50. 50
    Platonailedit says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    The traitorous thug’s regime is giving a new meaning to sex, lies and video tapes, isn’t it?

    Well done white folks electing this scummy pos as your leader.

  51. 51
    rikyrah says:

    Underwood flips GOP seat in first-time run focused on health care via @msnbc

  52. 52
    Raven says:

    @rikyrah: she is awesome!!!

  53. 53

    To my shame, I caught myself skimming past the mass murder news this morning to focus on the withdrawal of Acosta’s WH press credentials. Mass murder felt like old news. I was numb to it.

  54. 54
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Oh Wow! I want one too. Where do I sign up?

  55. 55
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @rikyrah: She’s a bad mama jama

  56. 56

    In a burst of shameless self-promotion, today marks the fifteenth anniversary of my blog Bark Bark Woof Woof. In the post I reminisce about the first fifteen years and at long last reveal my real name.

  57. 57
    Platonailedit says:

    @rikyrah: dennis hastert seat that dems ceded ten years to the rethugs and a deep red trumpturd district? Awesome woman. So articulate and smart.

  58. 58
    MattF says:

    Trump does the three ‘B’s– Bullshit, Bluff, and Bluster. It’s his Bee-havioral repertoire.

  59. 59
    Immanentize says:

    I wonder if this will end up being like opiods. When the white country folks start being the target (which is unsurprising because that generally is where the gun culture is strongest) then we’ll finally see some action!!

    Hahhhaaaahaha. I crack myself up.

  60. 60
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @zhena gogolia: So if Acosta assaulted an intern, why isn’t the White House demanding his arrest?

  61. 61
    Dave says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I wouldn’t be surprised if they decide that they need a distraction if they did escalate to that point.

    Mostly working against that is Trump’s cowardice and whatever remaining shreds of institutional awareness exist in this White House.

  62. 62
    low-tech cyclist says:

    A security guard and a policeman were among the casualties in the Thousand Oaks shooting last night. Fuck that ‘good guy with a gun’ shit.

    It should be illegal for civilians to possess guns that can kill a lot of people really fast. It’s that simple.

  63. 63

  64. 64
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @rikyrah: I’ve been seeing a lot of people just asserting that the Democrats are going to be completely supine and do nothing about Trump when they come in, and parsing a couple of things Pelosi said to get to there.

    It’s just bizarre–I have no idea where Pelosi got a reputation for being a milquetoast capitulator. I remember when we talked about, say, Harry Reid that way–there was a time when it seemed like that, during the Bush years. I can understand bashing on Schumer. But Pelosi? I’m old enough to remember when she was always spoken of as this extreme liberal firebrand.

    I guess it’s partly about her not advocating impeachment all the time. (But do you impeach when you have a Senate guaranteed not to convict?)

  65. 65

    the reports are that the killer had a high-capacity magazine so he didn’t have to pause and reload.

    that can be such an easy thing to ban – any clip that can hold more than 6 bullets – but the NRA won’t even give a nano-inch on that.

  66. 66
  67. 67
    JPL says:

    @Mustang Bobby: Happy Anniversary!

  68. 68
    Sam Dobermann says:

    Good news for a change: 1 MORE Democrat for the House!

    In NM 2, Xochitl Torres-Small refused to concede until all mail in ballots were counted has now surpassed her Republican opponent ! Her margin was greater than the 1% needed for a recount. Her opponent who gave a victory speech Tuesday night has not yet conceded.

    I hope the Georgia race also flips.

    The seat was expected to remain Republican. The prior incumbent got shellacked in the Governor race by Michelle Luhan Grisham, a Democrat

  69. 69
    MattF says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: That’s quite interesting. Makes you think there’s a workflow of customized presidential videos.

  70. 70

    @Mustang Bobby:

    Blogger here. 12 years gone for me. Keep typing. Keep plugging

  71. 71
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    YAY! Karen Handel just conceded to Lucy McBath!

  72. 72
    cain says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    These people… they are keystone tomfoolery wannabee villains but incompetent.

  73. 73
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mustang Bobby: Congrats… I guess

  74. 74
    Another Scott says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Their international news coverage is hard to beat (though it too has its flaws). Their political coverage of the US (and AFAICS, in the UK) has lots and lots of problems. One has to be selective and thoughtful in evaluating their reporting.


  75. 75
    cain says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s just bizarre–I have no idea where Pelosi got a reputation for being a milquetoast capitulator. I remember when we talked about, say, Harry Reid that way–there was a time when it seemed like that, during the Bush years. I can understand bashing on Schumer. But Pelosi? I’m old enough to remember when she was always spoken of as this extreme liberal firebrand.

    It’s driven by a deep fear. I have every confidence Pelosi will be like wolverine. But any public projection that seems like capitulation is going to be met with a bunch of distracting rabble rousing which leads to “Democrats in disarray!”. I much prefer staying quiet and let nervousness builds before the shanking begin. In any case, let’s not worry about Nancy. It’ll all be good.

    ETA – folks want payback for the past two years. We really are divided.

  76. 76
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Sam Dobermann:

    Sent my #71 comment before seeing yours. So it’s at least two more Dems in the House!

    Still waiting for everything to be counted in GA-7, my own district. GOP incumbent Rob Woodall leads by only 800 or so votes. He hasn’t declared victory, and the outstanding Carolyn Bourdeaux certainly hasn’t conceded.

  77. 77
    Tony Jay says:

    @Another Scott:

    The thing that baffles me is that this is British news talking down American Democrats using American Republican framing. Why? It’s not like the Democrats are in any way Left-Wing by British standards, Centre-Right if anything, so it’s not institutional conservatism colouring their viewpoint. It’s got to be editorially mandated. A top-down decision to sublet all US coverage to Republican friendly sources and outlets. Whether it’s Government pressure I don’t know, but I do know it’s making the News aspect of BBC Radio 4 unlistenable.

  78. 78

    @MattF: If you read the rest of that thread, the author speculates on where the doctoring may have been done. Infowars is one suspect.

  79. 79

    @cain: What’s great is that there are honest people with those tools who can show us what’s been done.

  80. 80
    Andrew Rogers says:

    @Tony Jay:
    I agree. The BBC has been taken over by a bunch of right wing nuts.
    Their coverage of brexit is awful.
    They Give the (ex MP) moron Nigel Lawson who is an anti-vaxxer the same level of coverage as scientists and all the real health care professionals.
    MP can state obvious lies and they do not get called out and questioned about why they are lying.
    The BBC one sided coverage is causing real problems in the UK as people still rely on them for information.

  81. 81
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @PaulWartenberg: I read in one account where a # of people managed to escape when he paused to reload. Maybe it was after the first 30 rounds, maybe 13, maybe he paused because he momentarily ran out of targets. Too soon to say.

  82. 82
    MattF says:

    @Matt McIrvin: The complaint I’ve heard about Pelosi from an insider is that she’s bad at ‘process’. And in an institution as amorphous and polycephalic as Congress, that’s a big deal.

    But bad-mouthing her politics is just incorrect– she’s a liberal, period.

  83. 83
    Platonailedit says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: The rethugs set the incompetence precedence and standard in nixon era. Talk about trying to gaslight an entire nation on fucking live teevee.

  84. 84
    BlueGirlFromWyo says:

    @debbie: Sure, the candidates who embraced Trump did great. Senator-Elect Corey Stewart (TrumpParty-VA) says hi. Oh, wait….

  85. 85
    Platonailedit says:

    @Another Scott: Yup. I was in UK recently for about 2 months. The local bbc 1 to bbc x versions of news were mindnumbing bordering on murkan msm levels. But their international version is much better like cnn’s. I watch it every day.

    Katy Kay could and should work for stupid murkan msm.

  86. 86
    Tony Jay says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It used to be. I don’t remember getting quite this intensely pissed off during the Bush and Obama years, though don’t get me wrong, it was still quite bad.

    Recently though, especially in the last year or so, it’s like they’ve taken to attending David Brooks seminars in Aspen and working off approved lists for phrasing and content. The next time I hear The Pustule described as ‘combative’, ‘outspoken’ or ‘unconventional’ I may be driven to something harder than alcohol.

  87. 87
    Raven says:

    I’m sitting here waiting for the girl to wake up from her colonoscopy and they have deep James Brown in the box!

  88. 88
    JPL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Wahoo! I haven’t checked today but Betty Price was behind in her bid to maintain her seat in the state house. sad
    Tom’s former seat goes to McBath and his wife loses. Election night must have been fun for them.

  89. 89
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: Uck for her. How’d she do with the gallon of vileness?

  90. 90
    Sam Dobermann says:

    @PaulWartenberg: @PaulWartenberg: @PaulWartenberg: @PaulWartenberg: “the reports are that the killer had a high-capacity magazine so he didn’t have to pause and reload.”

    Two young men who were in there said he only had a short clip but ha a bunch of clip in his pocket. The pulled people down under a pool table & when he was changing clips the got people out through a window which one of them smashed a second chair through.

    Excellent coverage of Sheriff of Ventura County, Geoff ??, and the interview if the two young men on CBS news. They are sure to repeat during the day. The Sheriff’s press conference was exemplary & a welcome change from GreatOrangePotato we were treated to earlier.

  91. 91
    Lapassionara says:

    @MattF: what does he mean by “process”? And how is she bad at it?

  92. 92
    Citizen Scientist says:

    @Mustang Bobby: Is it Bobby Mustang, perchance?

  93. 93
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: According to Morning Joe, Fox News mentioned the caravan one time. They can’t even continue with the pretense that Brown migrants (mostly women and children) are scary. Sad.

  94. 94
    TS (the original) says:


    The rethugs set the incompetence precedence and standard in nixon era. Talk about trying to gaslight an entire nation on fucking live teevee.

    I was trying to work out how to say that – I’ll just repeat your words – thanks

  95. 95
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That’s great to hear!!

  96. 96
    Another Scott says:

    @Lapassionara: Yeah.

    Pelosi pushed through (nearly) universal health care in the US – something that nobody else had been able to do for 80-some-odd years. But she’s “bad at process”.




  97. 97
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    It’s just bizarre–I have no idea where Pelosi got a reputation for being a milquetoast capitulator.

    It’s because the online “left” is comprised of horrible people relentlessly egging each other on until they believe bizarre lies. Not lies about *events* like the way Fox News works. Lies about personalities and motivations. Which they then use to whip up social-media hate-frenzies. It’s a bad scene.

    Case in point: a friend of a friend on FB responded to a comment about Pelosi on my friend’s feed by calling her “the definition of Republican lite” and got a shower of attaboys.

  98. 98
    MattF says:

    Seeking Schadenfreude, I looked up Hugh Hewitt’s take on the election in the WaPo– and I was mildly surprised. He’s come out strongly against Trump firing Sessions, and somewhat rational on other topics. I guess he admires Sessions.

  99. 99
    JPL says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: The antics of the administration just aren’t shocking anymore. Imagine if you will President Hillary doing any of this.

  100. 100
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @MattF: I guess he admires Sessions. For what?

  101. 101
    MattF says:

    @Lapassionara: Unclear. But if you chat with a bureaucrat it’s what you’re going to hear about.

  102. 102
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I thought I heard late yesterday that Betty Price had lost, but can’t remember the source now.

    Thrilled about McBath in the 6th, and really hoping Bourdeaux can hang on in the 7th!

  103. 103
    MattF says:

    @Patricia Kayden: So, are we going to hear about leprosy and ebola now?

  104. 104
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Baud: Yes, what’s with the wingtards shooting their own now? Taking the fear to the illogical paranoid extreme.

  105. 105
    JPL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Because of the closeness of the race she’ll probably have a recount, but the local papers reported that she lost. Mary Roichaux who defeated her worked for the American Heart Association for a long time. She’s very qualified and I was pleased to be able to meet her.
    Truthfully, after so many years of having Tom Price being my representative, I didn’t expect it to flip.

  106. 106
    JLowe says:

    “Q: What is your message to dems elected today who said they wouldn’t vote for you as speaker?”

    PELOSI: “Not one step back”.

    It’s a nice thought but I don’t see it happening though, not in my lifetime.

  107. 107
    MattF says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Well, there’s wimmin having fun. Which leads to anger and bullets.

  108. 108
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Another Scott: A chunk of the purity left, of course, still insists the ACA was a monstrous corporatist law designed to kill any chance of single-payer healthcare, and they’re cheering for it to fail.

  109. 109
    Joey Maloney says:

    @MattF: Hewitt chooses the white supremacist over the thieving narcissist. That’s…progress, I guess?

  110. 110
    Jonas says:

    IANAL but does Jim Acosta have a case against the WH for defamation?

  111. 111
    Tony Jay says:

    @Andrew Rogers:

    Oh, do not get me started on their Brexit coverage. It’s a spin-off from their general politics coverage, which is heavily influenced by their institutional friendliness to conservatism in general and Tories in particular. Brexit is a Tory problem turned into a national disaster, so obviously coverage much be fitted around the Government’s need to justify its failing policies and not challenge the prevailing storyline about “The Will of the People”, which means only Brexiteers and fellow travellers get to provide ‘insight’ without brutal pushback. Uninformative and a clear violation of the BBC’s core remit to Inform and Explain, but that’s what you get when the alternative would mean declaring a kind of war on the people who control BBC funding and would love, for all kinds of reasons, to privatise the whole thing.

  112. 112
    Vhh says:

    @Andrew Rogers: The UK has been taken over by right wing Brexiteer nuts. The BBC could not avoid infection. And BTW, both Canada and Australia have suffered from the disease (Canada seems to be recovering). Anglosphere madness.

  113. 113
    L85NJGT says:

    Backwards and in heels.

    The protest people campaigns are almost always fronts to siphon off votes. They also serve the goal of saddling a party with an ineffective, do-nothing, at cross purposes with the rank-and-file, lid on the opposition. Like Jeremy Corbin in the UK. Very hard to do in a Federalist system, but the gave it a try with Wilmer’s quixotic run.

  114. 114
    Tony Jay says:

    Dead thread and all, but what are you talking about? Corbyn was elected BY the rank and file, twice, with overwhelming majorities, and in the only General Election since he became leader saw the Labour Party’s share of the vote rocket to levels not seen since the 1990s.

    That was a very silly thing to say.

  115. 115
    karen marie says:

    @MattF: How could anyone say that with a straight face? Without Nancy Smash, the ACA was dead in the water.

  116. 116
    Elizabelle says:

    @karen marie: Thank you. I was gobsmacked at the “process” swipe too. (Not by MattF; he’s just reporting a remark.)

Comments are closed.