Finland Versus Russia

Finnish government websites, and a few others, were just under DDoS attack. This is a developing situation, so some of this information may be inaccurate.

Over the weekend, several Finnish government agencies carried out a raid on a company called Airiston Helmi Oy, which owns property in the Turku Archipelago. Here’s a map.

Helsinki is southeast of this map. The Finnish National Bureau of Investigation (NBI), local police, Tax Administration, Border Guard, and Finnish Defense Forces all participated in the raid. The publicly stated reasons were money laundering and illegal labor practices, but Airiston Helmi has been up to other things, including building what it called one-family homes that look like small hotels and buying Finnish naval surplus vessels and not repainting or renaming them, as is required.

The property holdings are not far from a petroleum refinery at Naantali and major sea lanes (indicated by dotted lines). Airiston Helmi is believed to have Russian connections. The Finnish government has been silent on security ramifications.

FBI Director Christopher Wray was in Finland last week, conferring with NBI and other security officials. (h/t to )

A much longer account of the complicated situation can be found here.

 

Cross-posted to Nuclear Diner.

 






185 replies
  1. 1

    […] Cross-posted to Balloon Juice. […]

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Yep, this is cyberwarfare retaliation for breaking up the maskirovka covering what would eventually be an irregular and unconventional naval assault.

    And thanks for putting this up, I’d been planning on doing a post on the Finnish raid yesterday, but it got lost in all the other news.

  3. 3

    @Adam L Silverman: The longer account that I linked is very worth reading.

  4. 4
    Spanky says:

    @Adam L Silverman: And it’s a probe of the Finnish cyber defenses, which are very very good.

    I won’t be surprised if this turns out to be just the first phase of a multi-phase cy op by the Rooskies.

  5. 5
    piratedan says:

    here’s to hoping that the Finns can stick it in Vlad’s ear… someone’s got to do it and I hope like hell they can core him a new virtual asshole….

  6. 6

    Yikes. Yes, read the linked article. It ain’t that long. It’s far from clear that this is a sly Russian govt operation rather than just some crooks. But how much difference is there?

  7. 7

    @John Revolta:

    But how much difference is there?

    As far as I can tell, the difference between Russian crooks and the Russian government is whether they’re on Putin’s bad side or his good side.

  8. 8
    kindness says:

    Makes me think Russia is prepping for something big. Wonder what and when?

  9. 9
    Hoodie says:

    Harbinger of something in the Baltics? Ariston operating out of Finland as a cover for Russian infiltration, like the little green men in Ukraine?

  10. 10
    TenguPhule says:

    but Airiston Helmi has been up to other things, including building what it called one-family homes that look like small hotels and buying Finnish naval surplus vessels and not repainting or renaming them, as is required.

    Unfinnished?

  11. 11
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    what would eventually be an irregular and unconventional naval assault.

    Terrorism or piracy?

  12. 12
    Wild Cat says:

    “We Are All Finnished Now”

  13. 13
    Mike in NC says:

    In “The Man Without A Face”, author Masha Gessen describes how Putin’s family lived quite well in the Soviet Union, having an apartment, television and phone when most citizens did not. Putin even had a car while in college, which was basically unheard of back then. Likely they were informers for the state.

  14. 14
    Mike in DC says:

    Do NATO bylaws prohibit members from entering into other defensive alliances? Because I think the states bordering Russia might want to consider such an arrangement.

  15. 15

    @kindness: @Hoodie: Okay, I’ll speculate. Turku is Finland’s second largest city. If you look at this map, you can see that it’s easy to island-hop over to Sweden. There has been suspicious activity in the Swedish archipelago as well. Sweden and Finland, while not members, have been cooperating with NATO as Russia has been more aggressive in the Baltic Sea area. Looks like they could bottle up both Turku and Stockholm if they did it right. I don’t know how much naval strength Russia has in the St. Petersburg area, though, and the way in to the Baltic Sea is easy to control.

    Looks to me like it would be a harassment operation to mess with sea traffic into and out of Turku, but who knows what Putin is thinking. He’s probably annoyed that Finland is no longer Finlandized and feels it needs a bloody nose from its big bear brother.

  16. 16

    @Cheryl Rofer: Ah, when I said “this map”, I forgot the link.

  17. 17
    Mnemosyne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Piracy that is condoned by the pirate’s government is called privateering.

  18. 18
    J R in WV says:

    And the Norwegians sold their Barents Sea underground navy base to North Sea Oil interests, which have leased the base to “Russian Research Vessels” in the arctic.

    Madness…

    At least the Finns have no doubts about the intentions of the Russians, now or in their past.

  19. 19
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Thanks for putting this up Cheryl. I’d corresponded with Adam yesterday but, as he said, there was other stuff going on as well. Regardless, I’m appreciative of what you both do – it makes that Platinum Subscription payment a little easier to swallow.

  20. 20
    Chyron HR says:

    Can’t Finland just send the Groke after Putin?

  21. 21

    @Mike in DC:

    Do NATO bylaws prohibit members from entering into other defensive alliances?

    They certainly haven’t prevented the US from being a member of plenty of other alliances.

  22. 22
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    harassment operation to mess with sea traffic

    Just as they are messing with Ukrainian ship traffic in the Sea of Azov.

  23. 23
  24. 24
    TenguPhule says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Piracy that is condoned by the pirate’s government is called privateering.

    I sincerely doubt Russia is going to issue letters of margue.

  25. 25
    oatler. says:

    Gonna get all novochok-y round there.

  26. 26
    TenguPhule says:

    @TenguPhule: marque

  27. 27
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    He’s probably annoyed that Finland is no longer Finlandized and feels it needs a bloody nose from its big bear brother.

    Russia’s last major operation into Finland did not work out so well for the invaders.

  28. 28

    @TenguPhule: It was mixed. Russia did manage to get Karelia, but learned to let the rest of Finland be.

  29. 29
    Amir Khalid says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Letters of marque made sense when it was overt policy. You don’t seriously think there’d be official paperwork on that nowadays, do you?

  30. 30
    Hoodie says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I was wondering more along the lines of stirring up and capitalizing on ethnic conflict in places like Estonia, e.g., Airiston Helmi as some sort of false flag terrorist/piracy outfit, justifying invasion to protect ethnic Russians. The cyberwar stuff to sow confusion in Finland, or as a test before attempting in Estonia.

  31. 31
    catclub says:

    @TenguPhule: So Russia DOES have Unfinnished Business!

  32. 32

    Further evidence that we’re living in a cyberpunk novel, as if it were needed.

    (This right here is the sort of content I LOVE this blog for. Thank you.)

  33. 33
    JPL says:

    Has the Trump administration said anything?

  34. 34
    TenguPhule says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Letters of marque made sense when it was overt policy. You don’t seriously think there’d be official paperwork on that nowadays, do you?

    Then its just state sponsored piracy. Privateers are defined by the letter of marque which separates them from just being pirates.

  35. 35
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Further evidence that we’re living in a cyberpunk novel, as if it were needed.

    I note a distinct lack of gothic inspired architecture and impossibly cool motorcycles.

  36. 36
    Doug says:

    Quite the present Russia might be planning to give Finland for the 100th anniversary of the former Grand Duchy’s independence from the Russian Empire.

    No pesky Article 5 commitments from NATO, and the EU’s commitment to mutual defense made in the Lisbon Treaty (Article 42.7, for those following along at home) is not nearly as robust as NATO obligations. More to the point, there’s much less practice and coordination with non-NATO countries, and thus greater levels of uncertainty.

    Good that the Finns broke this up early, and that US-Europe cooperation is continuing at the working level, despite the political level’s attempts to fuck it all up.

    Truly, the Trump administration should be better known as the Project for a Post-American Century.

  37. 37
    TenguPhule says:

    @JPL:

    Has the Trump administration said anything?

    Plenty. Oh, you meant something relevant?

  38. 38

    @Hoodie: The ethnic issues are bigger in Estonia, and the Turku Archipelago seems like a poor base for that. Pskov would be better, in the region that has gone back and forth between Russia and Estonia, where people speak both languages. Russia cyberattacked Estonia in 2007, and now Estonia is the NATO center for cyberdefense. That didn’t work out so well for Russia. Finland lacks similar splits. If anything, Karelia, which used to be eastern Finland before the Winter War of 1939, is beginning to lean toward Finland. But, again, the Turku Archipelago is the wrong place to deal with that.

    No, I think this is about Finland and probably Sweden, which are not NATO members but are thinking about it.

  39. 39
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: If Finland can deploy a Zombie White Death, everything will settle down.

  40. 40
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)  🗳🌷 says:

    @Hoodie:
    Pootie poot is taking a page out of Hitler’s playbook. What a fucking piece of shit.

  41. 41

    @TenguPhule:

  42. 42

    @JPL:

    Has the Trump administration said anything?

    Not that I’m aware of. TenguPhule’s answer at 37 is pretty good.

  43. 43
    HeleninEire says:

    WUT? I cannot understand this post or how it relates to a domestic political blog.

    And please don’t say “but America affects everywhere ” Maybe. But as an expat in Ireland, yeah they all talk about American politics, but does it affect us? Brexit will affect us so much more.

    I am officially news overloaded. Sorry for being the B. But prolly not.

  44. 44
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Combination of tactics. Russia doesn’t have a functioning aircraft carrier, but Finland is close enough to provide air support from Russia. More likely, you’d have seen the Russian owned former Finnish naval vessels, still bearing Finnish markings, used to attack Russian commercial and/or naval vessels. Thereby creating an excuse for a Russian military intervention.

  45. 45
    TenguPhule says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Japan: Japan

    Still waiting on the cyber-ninjas.

  46. 46
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @HeleninEire: I won’t say “but America affects everywhere”. I’ll say “Putin’s effects are everywhere, and impact all of us.’ Right down to Arron Banks.

  47. 47

    @TenguPhule: I believe Magic Leap is actually coming out with something soon…

  48. 48
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mnemosyne: Burn her, sink her, or take her a prize…

  49. 49
    TenguPhule says:

    Pret a Manger sued in US for labelling products containing pesticides as ‘natural’

    Two lawsuits have been filed against the sandwich company Pret a Manger in the US, claiming it deceptively labelled and marketed breads as “natural” when they contained glyphosate.

    The “false and misleading” practice suits come after it emerged that a teenager who was severely allergic to sesame died at London’s Heathrow airport in 2016, after eating an unlabelled Pret sandwich that contained the ingredient.

    In the US case, lab tests allegedly found traces of glyphosate – a biocide in Monsanto’s widely used Roundup weedkiller – in Harvest oatmeal raisin cookies, egg salad and arugula sandwiches, and other products made with the chain’s nine-grain granary bread.

  50. 50
    Mnemosyne says:

    @HeleninEire:

    I’ll be that other B — uhhh, remember when the US was cyber attacked by a certain other country in 2016? And that it affected a really important election? I think it’s a good idea for us to keep track of that country’s other cyberattacks against other nations, don’t you?

  51. 51
    AThornton says:

    Over the last 5 or so years the various Nordic and Baltic countries have been semi-seriously talking about forming a Defense Alliance “against any aggressor” (read: Russia) that would be a stand-alone entity, i.e., no formal hook-up with NATO. This kind of thing is exactly the kind of thing to push the discussion to “serious” levels.

  52. 52
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: False flags by Russia at this point seem almost cliche.

  53. 53
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @JPL: Good question because I’m only hearing about this news here on BJ. Everyone appears to be focused on Kavanaugh and Rosenstein.

  54. 54
    Amir Khalid says:

    @TenguPhule:
    It was also state-sponsored piracy when the pirates did have government-issued letters of marque. The only difference now is that governments can’t afford to be seen breaking international law by giving official sanction to pirates.

  55. 55
    JPL says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I even googled Ambassador Pence to see if he released a statement, and couldn’t find one.

  56. 56
    AThornton says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Along with all their other commitments the Russian Army doesn’t have the people to attack Finland. The last time they tried it the completely inadequately armed Finns inflicted more casualties than the current number of Russia’s Army of ~350,000. Granted the Finns no longer have the Mannerheim Line but the Finnish Army is way better equipped.

  57. 57
    TenguPhule says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    It was also state-sponsored piracy when the pirates did have government-issued letters of marque. The only difference now is that governments can’t afford to be seen breaking international law by giving official sanction to pirates.

    The fig leaf of quasi-legitimacy as a sanctioned form of military warfare is what the label is all about.

  58. 58
    TenguPhule says:

    @AThornton:

    Along with all their other commitments the Russian Army doesn’t have the people to attack Finland.

    Successfully.

    They could always attack.

  59. 59
    scav says:

    When did we become a domestic political blog? Isn’t it more of an artisinal arguing freeforall with occasional recipes, pet insurance dissertations, random long-form art-heavy detours and semi-regular revivals of small-animal worship? If not, I think I’m seriously lost and have wandered into the wrong part of the interwebs.

  60. 60
    JanieM says:

    @HeleninEire: @Chetan Murthy: @Mnemosyne: I missed the memo about BJ being a domestic political blog. Even though the main focus is US politics, what about pets…gardens…recipes…travel…Silverman on Security…Mayhew on Insurance? I don’t comment often, but I keep coming back because I learn so much here. Also for the laughs, which are plentiful even if wry. Cheap, even at the platinum subscription price.

    *****
    @kindness:

    Makes me think Russia is prepping for something big. Wonder what and when?

    US elections again?

  61. 61
    TenguPhule says:

    @scav: You left out the music face offs, the sports arguments, the movie reviews, gardening chats and communal nitpicking of John Cole’s domestic arrangements.

  62. 62
    Ruviana says:

    @scav: It’s the premiere naked-mopping and pet rescue blog! Come for the gardening tips, stay for the international relations discussions!

  63. 63
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @JPL: Under Trump’s regime, so many wild things happen every day that we just can’t keep up. Thank goodness for blogs like BJ for covering events like these.

  64. 64
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @AThornton: Yep.

  65. 65
    AThornton says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Why? For what purpose? To accomplish what?

    Even if they conquered Finland – highly unlikely IMO – they’d only get everybody else in the region pissed at them and they’d probably lose Kaliningrad to the Poles who freaking hate the Russians.

  66. 66
    Walker says:

    Operation Screaming Fist begins (Neuromancer ref)

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JanieM:

    Silverman on Security

    That guy’s making me look bad. He’s in big trouble when I get my hands on him!

  68. 68
    NotMax says:

    Oddly enough, was off doing other things on the ‘net and the last page perused before coming back to B-J happened to be about a Finnish hotel.

  69. 69
    TenguPhule says:

    @AThornton:

    Why? For what purpose? To accomplish what?

    That’s an entirely different subject. Russia has the forces to launch an attack, not a successful one or a sane one, but they still have the warm bodies and weapons.

    one of the worries is that in a post- Putin era, they’ll have too many guns and not enough steady paychecks.

  70. 70
    HeleninEire says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yeah prolly but not on this blog. I have just so much RAM to deal with this. I am trying my best to keep up. I am trying my best to keep my 84 year old father from writing texts to me that say “I have never felt more depressed as as American” Do you know what I wrote back to him? “Don’t be depressed, Daddy, your children and your grandchildren are white, middle (or upper) class and christian. They will be fine.” Imagine a liberal like me writing that?

  71. 71
    Gozer says:

    @scav: Sometimes gaming. Also, too.

  72. 72

    @AThornton:

    Why? For what purpose? To accomplish what?

    To wag the dog.

  73. 73
    TenguPhule says:

    What do I hate about maple syrup? Basically everything.

    Basically, what I detest about maple syrup is everything, meaning both texture and flavor. As a rule, I do not like intense sweetness, nor do I like syrups unless diluted, as chocolate syrup in soda or honey in hot tea or as the defining ingredient in honey cake.

    “But what do you put on your pancakes?” some on Twitter asked, to which I replied: “I don’t like pancakes either. Too soggy.” What I do love are crisp-on-the outside- mellow-within waffles, lightly spread with unsalted butter then topped with a light snowfall of confectioner’s sugar. Never would I sog them down with syrup!

    Most of all it is maple’s flavor that bothers me, even in its most artisanally correct form, as compared to the even more insipid Log Cabin. Truth is, as a child I was beguiled by the adorable cabin-shaped can that held that brand of syrup and so I happily poured it over, what else? Pancakes! As my palate matured, I found that maple flavor tastes cheap, like penny candy, and frankly it is a taste that I do not associate with food.

    Right about here I should apologize to a couple of my cherished Canadian friends (who live in New York, of course) because I keep offending them by publicly disliking so much of their native fare. That would include the thin, sweet-instead-of-salty Montreal bagels with their glassy toppings of brittle seeds, the presumptuous smoked meat claimed to outclass New York deli pastrami, and Quebec-invented totally disgusting poutine, the stultifying mess of fried potatoes smothered in thick brown gravy and clumps of melting cheese curds. But, making amends, I can say I do cherish Canada’s great smoked salmon, its tangy cheddars and, midsummer, the tiny, pungent blueberries that ripen earlier than usual, thanks to global warming.

    We’re overdue for a food argument.

  74. 74
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    Fictional slow motion takeover, but see Occupied on Netflix.

  75. 75
    Mike G says:

    It’s alright. Trump spoke to Putin who said they weren’t doing any of this.
    He couldn’t possibly be lying.

  76. 76
    Mike in DC says:

    @AThornton: soo…Norway, Sweden, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia? Seems like they’d need at least one middle power in there to be an effective deterrent to Russia. Throw in Poland and Ukraine and you’d have much gnashing of teeth in the Motherland.

  77. 77
    Jay says:

    Given the cyber response to the raids, it’s either a GRU attack on the Finns for rolling up a maristroika P2P Safe House and Escape and Evasion Route, or the FSB’s.

    You wouldn’t want to be in two small ex-Finnish Navy “support vessels”, ( small flat bottomed landing craft with cranes, capable of carrying a pick up) with the Finnish Navy tearing around with live fire orders.

    But if Finnish Security Services are looking around for a couple of “suspects”, an illegal AirBNB close to the water and shipping lanes, with a couple of “support craft”, carrying spare parts or supplies out to a commercial freighter, would be a good back door get away.

  78. 78
    Citizen_X says:

    @TenguPhule: Argument, hell. That guy’s instantly worse than Kavanaugh.

  79. 79
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Citizen_X: I think you need to be more measured in your criticism. Now, if he’d gone after *ketchup*, I’d be right there with you.

  80. 80
    C Stars says:

    @TenguPhule: I agree with this person and I like her style. Syrup on soggy pancakes–bleah. I will take it on salmon, with a bit of soy sauce or something, but honey is really better in that application. It can also be good to flavor homemade yogurt, but again, brown sugar is better.

    Also, is this an open thread? It doesn’t look like an open thread but we are talking about maple syrup now and not Finland. I have a dental question. Slated to get a crown replacement in a week and right now (for the past week or so) I’ve had a temporary crown. I’m usually OK in the morning but by afternoon I have a raging headache, originating in my jaw where the temp crown is. Dentist said continued sensitivity in the tooth itself would mean I need a root canal, but this isn’t in the tooth it’s in MY ENTIRE FUCKING HEAD. EVERY BLEEPING DAY. FOR THE LAST WEEK AND A HALF.

    Please send help/advice/commiseration. And how much/how long can a person safely gobble tylenol? I know I should just call my dentist but it seems like every time I tangle with them I end up with more pain.

  81. 81
    Leto says:

    @Doug:

    More to the point, there’s much less practice and coordination with non-NATO countries, and thus greater levels of uncertainty.

    I’d suggest you Google “BALTOPS exercises” and understand what we, the US, do in the region in the form of NATO/non-NATO training. What you’re saying is not accurate. And that’s putting it mildly.

  82. 82
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @TenguPhule:
    Heretic.

  83. 83
    debbie says:

    Would something similar be going on over here? I know I’ve had issues accessing some sites today.

  84. 84
    Citizen_X says:

    @NotMax: The premise of which has Russia successfully fostering splits in the West whilst they take over Norway. Gotta start on the second season before events overtake the show.

    Yes, it’s a good time (in the real world) for Scandinavian & Baltic states to consider an alliance.

  85. 85
    Immanentize says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I am glad you mentioned 1939. Putin seems like just the kind of guy who believes that past failures must be corrected. I think that Ukraine is part of that thinking. When the Soviet Union broke up, Ukraine was the country with the third largest nuclear weapons cache. The Baltic States are clearly a part of this — and so would be the Finns. Strategically, the position of these properties and assets would be perfect to create cover and blocking moves for any Russian invasion of Estonia and Latvia — and to a lesser confusion aspect, Lithuania. I think, on Putin’s wish list is also Belarus. I suspect, if Putin wanted to roll the bones, all could be done in a weekend.

  86. 86
    Immanentize says:

    @TenguPhule: That guy is clearly not a heroin addict

  87. 87
    Citizen_X says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    I think you need to be more measured in your criticism.

    Never! I am fashioning maple sugar bioweapons as we speak.

  88. 88
    Jay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Seeing as the picking is on Canadian foods, I’ll bring up my pet peeve.

    WTF is it with ‘Merkin’s and duck hunting?

    Spending tens of thousands of dollars on decoys, camouflage everything, topping it with neon orange, automatic shotguns, hundreds of shells, “popup camo hides”, going out before dawn, standing waist deep in a swamp, basically sewage, making stupid quack quack sounds, then blasting away at first light like they are Nazi Flack Gunners protecting Berlin?

    I just take a lawn chair, a bag of bread, a hammer and go down to the park.

  89. 89
    Immanentize says:

    @Citizen_X: WWII Germany sat a quarter of a million troops! in Norway for the whole of the conflict fearing a northern invasion. Norway is oddly strategic, especially as the ice caps melts. OIL!

  90. 90
    Immanentize says:

    @C Stars: Tylenol bad for your liver and not a great pain reliever and even worse at inflammation reduction. Try aleve or advil. Or alternate. It is perfectly safe to take tylenol, then advil in three hours, then tylenol in three hours, etc.

  91. 91
    SFAW says:

    @HeleninEire:

    WUT? I cannot understand this post or how it relates to a domestic political blog.

    Good point.

    I, for one, believe that Putin would never feel emboldened to go after “bigger fish” such as the EU nations or NATO, or what’s left of America, were his “practice runs” to have any kind of success. Because he’s always run away with his figurative tail between his legs every time in the past when he’s been caught.

    Or, at least, he did so after the Most Bestest and Smartest and Geniusest and Athleticest President EVAH told him to stop what he was doing.

    Helen, I luvs ya (in a platonic sense, of course), and am sorry you’re overloaded from all the shit going on (esp. US politics), but do you really think Putin’s long-term plan is NOT aimed at the US? He’s already weakened it, by sticking his Puppet in the Oval Office, but I’m pretty sure he wants either our destruction, or at the very least, our submission. And THAT is why it’s domestic, not just foreign.

  92. 92
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Roger Moore:

    As far as I can tell, the difference between Russian crooks and the Russian government is whether they’re on Putin’s bad side or his good side.

    OMG, I am so stealing that. I can even attribute it to Roger Moore! Or “Roger Moore”. ; )

  93. 93
    The Pale Scot says:

    @HeleninEire:
    Sorry Helen, but that’s short sighted, unraveling NATO and the EU would be awful for Eire. Her safety depends on the political stability of her neighbors. Brexit is going to awful for Eire, hard or soft. A physical border will be blamed on the English, specifically the kind of English bigots (DUP..cough..cough) that have caused misery in Ireland since the Roundheads. That will be the cause/excuse for violence.

    A huge gas field was just found off the Shetlands, no better time for another ref on Scottish independence. Could lead to a Gaelic confederacy.

    Yea, in my dreams. Just like in the USA, letting the bigots get what they deserve would cause too much blowback

  94. 94
    zhena gogolia says:

    @C Stars:

    I hate to say it, but you may need a root canal. Better call your dentist. But it’s not so horrible.

  95. 95
    Jay says:

    @C Stars:

    Try a topical anesthetic, for tooth pain, the kind you put on and around the tooth.

    Sometimes, low level pain builds up into massive headaches.

  96. 96
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Doug:

    Truly, the Trump administration should be better known as the Project for a Post-American Century.

    I’m stealing this line also, too.

  97. 97
    ruemara says:

    @TenguPhule: I make my own fruit based syrups with honey, brown sugar and a seasonal selection. If you aren’t doing that, you aren’t eating pancakes & waffles right. Maple is good, but it has that herby finish.

  98. 98
  99. 99
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Citizen_X: Hah! Ketchup IS a bioweapon!

  100. 100
    Immanentize says:

    Maple syrup story — I lived a charmed life (at times). When I was 7 I moved from the rural parts of upstate NY to the suburbs of a small city. But, thankfully, my mother’s people were farm people from the area I originally lived. My grandfather (as a kind of dowry, maybe?) got 40 acres from my grandmother’s family farm. She was previously married with a child, so a good deal for him in 1929…. Anyhoo, he let his friend, one George Dietrich, tap the sugar maples on the lot for the price of 10 gallons of syrup each year. Which meant that when I was growing up, instead of Aunt Jemima colored corn syrup I had real maple syrup. Always. That is why I have such a sweet disposition.

  101. 101
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Who is this Noah Smith dude? That’s awesome!

  102. 102
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Jay: even at my advanced age, I still associate thanksgiving with the sound of Suburban engines firing up at 3 am as my neighbors headed to their duck blinds in Arkansas or Mississippi. Duck hunting is one of the few types where you can shoot and shoot and shoot. You mostly get one or maybe two shots with turkey or deer.

    Then we made duck gumbo.

  103. 103
    SFAW says:

    @Citizen_X: @Chetan Murthy:

    Unless she recently had an operation, Mimi Sheraton is a “she,” not a “he.”

    I think it’s outstanding that a former FTFNYT food critic is slagging pancakes (among other things). Where “outstanding” = “”silly.”

    I’m also wondering if she’s been reading Alexandra Petri, and saying to herself “Hey, I can do that. How hard could it be?” In which case, the response is apparently “Too hard for YOU.”

  104. 104
    Immanentize says:

    @Jay: Clove oil is the tradition herbal tooth pain remedy. Works a little bit. Ask Dustin Hoffman.

  105. 105
    Immanentize says:

    @SFAW: Sorry, apologizing before you slag me too — I just picked up “he” from others.

  106. 106
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    More likely, you’d have seen the Russian owned former Finnish naval vessels, still bearing Finnish markings, used to attack Russian commercial and/or naval vessels. Thereby creating an excuse for a Russian military intervention.

    I find this scenario incredibly chilling, because I hate feeling as if we’re all living in a Tom Clancy novel now.

  107. 107
    Miss Bianca says:

    @scav: Wot you said.

  108. 108
    PenAndKey says:

    @HeleninEire:

    BJ has always been primarily a US domestic politics blog, but it’s by no means restricted to that topic. Geopolitical intrigue and major events are just as commonly discussed here as are insurance minutia and home improvements. And let’s not even get into the open discussion threads…

    But seriously, a major Russian cy op against Finland is definitely the kind of thing we discuss here.

  109. 109
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay:

    a hammer

    You need a 3 wood or a hockey stick.

  110. 110
    PenAndKey says:

    @Miss Bianca: hell, that’s the kind of scenario I’d try to pull off if I were Russia and looking to expand again.

  111. 111
    NotMax says:

    @C Stars

    Dental problems can also manifest as sinus distress and pain (with accompanying headache). And vice-versa.

  112. 112
    Immanentize says:

    @Miss Bianca: @Major Major Major Major:
    William Gibson once said in an interview that he stopped writing futuristic “cyber punk” novels because the world had caught up with his imaginings.

  113. 113
    JPL says:

    @TenguPhule: It’s her own fault. No one needs use so much it causes waffles to become soggy.

  114. 114
    Jay says:

    @HeleninEire:

    24/7 Insane Clown POSus is not only bad for the health, ( PSTD) but drives so much other actual important news, out of the news cycle.

    Get your Dad to turn off the TV News, ( except BBC or CBC and Rachel), read the Guardian, the Independent, CBC and BBC, and just check in with some blogs on the Trumpstorm.

  115. 115
    C Stars says:

    @zhena gogolia: Ugh. I’m maxed out on my insurance after this crown and really don’t want to pay for a root canal out of pocket…so many kinds of pain…

    @Jay: OK I will try to get some of that. Got mixed up with your posts for a second there and thought (horrifyingly) that your duck-hammering comment was somehow related to dental issues.

    @Immanentize: Ibuprofen is definitely in the mix too.

  116. 116
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: He’s an assistant professor of finance at University of New York at Stony Brook.

    Also, based on the naming conventions in my family, he’s Adam Smith’s little brother.

  117. 117
    SFAW says:

    @C Stars:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I hate to say it, but you may need a root canal. Better call your dentist.

    Being a worry-wart, I’d be worried about an abscess. [Note: I’m not a dentist, orthodontist, exodontist, or anything like them, I may be completely full of shit. More than I usually am, that is.] If it’s an abscess, that could be bad, so please follow zhena gogolia’s advice re: calling your dentist. ASAP

  118. 118
    zhena gogolia says:

    I guess I have to express apologies to the trolls who had concerns about Avenatti the other night. Maybe they weren’t trolls.

  119. 119
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: Welcome to my world.

  120. 120
    SFAW says:

    @Immanentize:

    Clove oil is the tradition herbal tooth pain remedy. Works a little bit. Ask Dustin Hoffman.

    Just make sure the guy administering it doesn’t have white hair and speaks with a German accent.

  121. 121
    Immanentize says:

    @C Stars: Well, the new year is almost here — will you doctor work with you on spacing out the treatment until January? I am so sorry about the tooth pain, it is a particular empathy vulnerability of mine.

  122. 122
    SFAW says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I guess I have to express apologies to the trolls who had concerns about Avenatti the other night. Maybe they weren’t trolls.

    Why? Did Avenatti do something recently that makes you think it was all bullshit? (Serious question, I haven’t been following it today.)

  123. 123
    Immanentize says:

    @SFAW: Dentists can prescribe useful pain killers….

  124. 124
    JeanneT says:

    @C Stars:
    could be the temp crown is putting pressure on your jaw and needs adjusting?

  125. 125
    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Nope, sometimes all I need is a big bag. Mallards, Teal, Lesser Canada’s, ( run away from the Greater Canada’s).

    Sometimes it’s leftover popcorn.

  126. 126
    Immanentize says:

    @zhena gogolia: Why? Did something happen?

  127. 127
    zhena gogolia says:

    @SFAW:

    He promised a third BK accuser to come out today and set a countdown clock. Now his twitter is locked down and apparently there’s no third accuser coming forward. It makes a mess for us, I’m afraid.

  128. 128
    Immanentize says:

    @SFAW: Diamonds are a dentist’s best friend!

  129. 129
    Mnemosyne says:

    @TenguPhule:

    So an idiot who hates real maple syrup based on his or her childhood memories of Log Cabin artificially maple flavored syrup is some kind of arbiter of taste? Really?

    This is reminding me of when a judge on “Cutthroat Kitchen” liked a dessert because it was made with a crappy Good Humor bar.

  130. 130
    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    I think he got played by a fake Kavanaugh “accuser.”

  131. 131
    AThornton says:

    @TenguPhule:

    The writer is the Spawn of Satan and those who embrace those teachings will be cast into the netherworld by those in the Service of the Hand of an Angry God.

    @Mike in DC:

    Poland is a Baltic country. Ukraine? Not so much.

  132. 132
    Immanentize says:

    @zhena gogolia: He said 48 hours about 24 hours ago. There is still time for him (namely 24 hours). He was always planning a Wednesday reveal. Not surprising he shut the haters and bots out of his feed.

  133. 133
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @C Stars: How confident are you in your dentist’s diagnostic ability? I ask b/c I went to Gentle Dental here in SF, with a pain in my tooth. They took X-rays, said I needed a full periodontal cleaning, and that there was nothing wrong with the tooth. Meanwhile, I was definitely getting swelling under the jaw, beneath the tooth. So I went to another dentist: he looked at the xrays, said “I think you need a root canal”, took a couple more xrays of just that tooth, and I had the root canal the next day. He was pretty insistent that it needed to come out, b/c the nerve root was infected and leaking into the lymph node (hence the swelling under the jaw).

    Gentle Dental was basically upselling me with a periodontal cleaning, and nothing more. To be clear, I went to both dentists with the same complain: “damn, my tooth hurts, and it’s hurting underneath my jaw too, and I can brealy sleep, what’s going on?”

  134. 134
    Mnemosyne says:

    @C Stars:

    Yikes! It does sound more like a possible access, which can be very dangerous. Call your dentist, or ask a trusted person for a recommendation to a better dentist and call that one.

  135. 135
    debbie says:

    @debbie:

    Here it is, clear as mud.

  136. 136
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, GREAT, Adam. It’s a scary place!

    Well, when I finish with my Regency-era romantic thriller phase and want to start my “Cyberpunk, hell, welcome to the New World Order!” reality thriller phase, I definitely know who my technical adviser is going to be! //

  137. 137
    Immanentize says:

    @Mnemosyne: This is teh premise of every house hunter show — “I hate this place because of the color of the paint in the third bedroom.”

  138. 138
    Immanentize says:

    @AThornton: You might want to re-read Mike in DC’s comment — he was addressing an effective coalition counter balance to Russia, not just Baltic States.

  139. 139
    The Pale Scot says:

    @Chetan Murthy: @C Stars:

    It most likely caused from you unconsciously grinding your teeth on the temporary crown. I had major work done, multiple bridges etc. And the 6 weeks waiting for the permanents was the most painful time in my life. Like curled up on the rug banging my head against the floor double dosed on Demerol pain. When you get the crown, don’t hesitate to hop back to the dentist to have the bite contact modified if your still having pain. Ask for 10mg Vicodins, Demerol sucks.

  140. 140
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: Why?

  141. 141
    SFAW says:

    @Immanentize:

    Diamonds are a dentist’s best friend!

    Loved the book. Hated the movie, however. They kinda changed a number of key plot points.

  142. 142

    @TenguPhule:
    This represents everything wrong with food criticism. It’s all about trying to prove what a great arbiter of the best foods she is by slagging stuff other people like. It’s the food equivalent of a nasty gossip column, rather than what food criticism really should be– a guide to finding and eating good food.

  143. 143
    Immanentize says:

    @SFAW: agreed. Same with Seven Days of the Condor (book) which became Three Days of the Condor (film).

  144. 144
    Jay says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    The ex-Finnish Naval vessels in question, are shallow draft, designed for bouy repair, transporting small cargos from ship to shore and vice versa, repairing docks and pilings.

    These types of vessel are common anyplace small scale marine transportation services.

    You wouldn’t want to be on one offshore, or even a mild storm.

    And you certainly wouldn’t want to be using them to make bang-bang, pew-pew or boom noises anywhere near even a small Naval Patrol Boat.

  145. 145
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: I’ve said this a number of times, the guy s a loud mouth show boat, self promoting attention seeker. Just the kind of lawyer I really hate. But he is also a careful lawyer and not a Charlatan. He does not get taken in because he wants to believe something, which is the 4-chan gossip.. He is frankly far too ruthless for that.
    But we shall see.

  146. 146
    NotMax says:

    FYI.

    One physician appointed to examine immigrants was convicted of solicitation of capital murder because he tried to hire a hit man to kill a dissatisfied patient in Houston. Another had a history of sexual misconduct and exploitation of female patients. And a third was disciplined for allowing her staff to dilute vaccines, according to a report made public Tuesday by the Department of Homeland Security’s internal watchdog.

    The report found the doctors appointed by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services were not properly vetted — putting immigrants at risk of abuse, and potentially exposing U.S. citizens to contagious disease.
    [snip]
    The report found 132 of the 5,569 active civil surgeons could pose a health or safety risk to immigrants. Eleven of them were prevented from participating in federal health care programs for health care fraud, patient abuse or other reasons. Source

  147. 147

    @JPL:

    No one needs use so much it causes waffles to become soggy.

    And complaining about soggy pancakes but then putting plenty of butter on your waffles doesn’t make a lot of sense, either.

  148. 148
    SFAW says:

    @Immanentize:

    Never read it, only saw the movie. Weird having Max as an assassin.

  149. 149
    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    I was surprised to see him inserting himself into the Kavanaugh shitshow. I’d think Stormy would want her attorney to deal with her shitshow before moving on to another one. I’ve had zero dealings with defense attorneys, but they do appear to be as you describe. Avenatti, though, is really, really good with his words.

  150. 150
    debbie says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I like my pancakes soaked with butter and maple syrup! If I want crisp, I’ll get a waffle!

  151. 151
    Jay says:

    @Immanentize:

    Almost every Canadian kid, from Ontario east, get’s on a schoolbus in February and goes out to the Sugaring Off. Trees, techniques, lines, the boil house, the products, ( maple water, #1,#2,#3, maple sugar, maple sugar fudge), and then, the piece de resistance,

    A table coated with clean fresh snow, popsicle sticks, overboil poured out in short strips on the snow, where it turns to toffee,

    Roll your own toffee sticks, as many as you want,

    Then as darkness falls, hot dogs, brown beans and hot-chocolate infront of a bonfire.

    The haters can suck it.

  152. 152
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Roger Moore:

    This represents everything wrong with food criticism. It’s all about trying to prove what a great arbiter of the best foods she is by slagging stuff other people like. It’s the food equivalent of a nasty gossip column, rather than what food criticism really should be– a guide to finding and eating good food.

    Here, here! Likewise, the point of performance criticism should ideally be advice and critique given *by* performers and aficionados, to educate public taste and point out cool new trends, not slag performers or performances they don’t like, and think they’re being clever by doing so. Which isn’t to say I haven’t enjoyed myself reading a nasty or mean-spirited review – I certainly have, and have certainly penned some myself – but trying to make people feel bad for liking something by telling them they should hate that thing, just like the author does is no longer something I can even pretend to admire.

  153. 153
    Immanentize says:

    @Jay: Heaven

  154. 154
    gene108 says:

    @Mike G:

    It’s alright. Trump spoke to Putin who said they weren’t doing any of this.
    He couldn’t possibly be lying.

    Which one? Putin might tell the truth, if it suited him. Trump is incapable of being honest. Trump has to, at the very least, embellish anything he does to make it bigger and better than what actually happened.

  155. 155
    Jay says:

    @debbie:

    There’s a lot of time between court dates or actual filings requiring his input, so he’s got time on his hands and a hugely advertised rep for going after perverts.

    He also seems to be a strong support system for his clients.

  156. 156
    Immanentize says:

    @SFAW: Maybe that is why NotMax is so named?

  157. 157
    Jay says:

    @gene108:

    I think it was snark,

    I don’t think either Putin or Insane Clown POSus has said anything about the cyber attacks on Finland, yet.

  158. 158

    @Immanentize: Finland was part of the Russian Empire. So there’s that in Putin’s mind. The thing about that is if you go back further, Russia and Sweden contested many of the areas between them and Russia. The official languages of Finland are Finnish and Swedish. You can see Swedish names on the map I included in the post. The Swedes put on a very nice show of neutrality and pacifism, but they also worked on developing nuclear weapons for a while.

    Putin is having his own domestic problems, so there’s some motivation to wag the dog. And he just seems to like making trouble.

  159. 159
    Mnemosyne says:

    @C Stars:

    Also, one time with a temporary crown I had a weird reaction to the clove oil they used in the adhesive and my gum started receding, exposing the tooth’s root and causing pain. Once they changed out the adhesive on the temporary crown for something more hypoallergenic, the gum crept back around the tooth, but it was pretty freaky.

  160. 160
    Immanentize says:

    @Jay: I think, after today’s speech, Trump (through Bolton?) will say,
    “Good Luck, Finland, wherever you are.”

  161. 161
    SFAW says:

    @Immanentize:

    Heaven

    Seconded

  162. 162
    Ruviana says:

    @C Stars: Note that with an abcess the dentist (or another dentist) can prescribe antibiotics. I had this happen while waiting for a root canal that had to be done by a dental surgeon. I called my dentist for antibiotics every week. When the surgeon finally removed the tooth he said that yep, I had “quite an abcess.” Oh boy. Abcesses can occasionally cause sepsis and lead to multiple organ failure and death. Just sayin’.

  163. 163
    TenguPhule says:

    A teacher forced her student into sex — and docked his grade after he refused, suit says

    A 27-year-old math teacher, Jennifer Olajire-Aro, coerced a 17-year-old student into having sex with her, repeatedly threatening to dock his grades if he refused, according to a lawsuit filed by the South Carolina teenager and his mother.

    The sexual advances had become so “public, direct, and obvious” that the student avoided Aro’s classes at Burke High School in Charleston, aware that administrators, other teachers and his classmates knew about them, the lawsuit says. The sexual encounters ended in December, after the teen refused to have sex with Aro — who then lowered his grade from 98 to 89 out of 100, according to the lawsuit.

    The teen and his mother sued Aro’s employer, the Charleston County School District, accusing officials of not quickly investigating Aro despite a history of sexual misconduct in the district. The lawsuit, filed last week in Charleston County Circuit Court, comes amid an investigation of the district’s handling of separate allegations against a different school employee, who was reportedly promoted despite accusations that he had used a school computer to view child pornography. That employee was later accused of molesting two students.

    Sigh. Fox Nazis are going to going fucking nuts on this one.

  164. 164
    Immanentize says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Yes to all. In history terms, it wasn’t so long ago that Sweden was a major sea power. But, overreach. Ever see the Vasa? Most amazing museum piece I have ever seen.

  165. 165
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Back in the days of yore when I did some small-time theater criticism for small theaters, if there was something specific that bugged me about the production that I thought could be fixed, I would put it in the review as something that needed to be reconsidered. After all, plays are always going to get noodled a bit during the course of the run, so I might as well put in my 2 cents about fixable issues.

  166. 166

    @Immanentize: Very cool. I saw it in Stockholm when I was visiting the environmental restoration the Swedes did at the former uranium mine at Ranstad. At the time, I wondered why they were mining uranium. A couple of years later I read a good article on their nuclear weapons program that mentioned Ranstad. Oh.

  167. 167
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Mnemosyne: There’s a difference between what you describe and just flat-out telling people that they sucked in their roles.//

  168. 168
    PJ says:

    @SFAW: From all accounts, Putin believes in a Greater Russia (pretty much what the Soviet Union was) including political and economic dominance of former Soviet and Warsaw Pact territories, if not actual annexation of some of the closer ones (Ukraine, the Baltics). He also believes that Russia should be a Great Power (as do many, if not most Russians). He has shown neither the means nor the interest in creating an economic or cultural powerhouse in Russia itself, but he does have the means and the interest in weakening the EU, the US, and NATO politically and economically (and has been pretty freaking successful at it so far at minimal cost to himself), so that Russia can approach parity on that basis.

    @HeleninEire: I don’t know when, and by whom, this was declared a “domestic politics” blog, but it clearly has interests much further afield than that. (And I have noticed that a lot of commenters give vent to things going on in their neck of the woods, even if that’s outside of the US). If you feel left out by this post, I hear that Richard Mayhew gets a little lonely with the crickets at his health policy posts. (I do appreciate his stuff but also recognize that most of it is way over my head.)

  169. 169
    PJ says:

    @Doug: I think W got a jump on that one but Trump is the real one with the vision thing to make it a permanent reality.

    I remember reading the PNAC manifesto back in the Clinton Years and thinking, man, these guys are nuts. And then they were all appointed to powerful positions in the Bush Administration . . .

  170. 170

    I hope Finland kicks Russia’s ass like the last time.

    http://www.badassoftheweek.com/hayha.html

  171. 171

    @Miss Bianca:

    Likewise, the point of performance criticism should ideally be advice and critique given *by* performers and aficionados, to educate public taste and point out cool new trends, not slag performers or performances they don’t like, and think they’re being clever by doing so.

    I agree that informing and educating the public should be the main goal, but there will be times when that means letting people know to stay away. To me, though, the big difference is between a critic who tries to understand the goal of the person they’re criticizing and one who cares only about their own tastes. A restaurant review that tells me a Lebanese restaurant is an excellent example of the style (and provides a comparison between Lebanese and other Middle Eastern cuisine) is far more useful than one that slags the same restaurant for not being the fancy steakhouse where the critic really wanted to eat.

  172. 172
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Roger Moore:

    To me, though, the big difference is between a critic who tries to understand the goal of the person they’re criticizing and one who cares only about their own tastes.

    Sounds like you and I are pretty much in agreement.

  173. 173

    @TenguPhule:

    A 27-year-old math teacher, Jennifer Olajire-Aro, coerced a 17-year-old student into having sex with her

    They really ought to call this by its proper term. Coercing somebody into sex is rape, even if the coercion isn’t violent.

  174. 174
  175. 175
    C Stars says:

    Whoa, weird a href thing going on there…

  176. 176
    C Stars says:

    @Ruviana: Funny story: I actually had sepsis last year. So, I guess the good news is that I know what it feels like. (??)

  177. 177
    C Stars says:

    So, I responded to all the kind folks who wrote in with advice but messed something up with the name links and now it’s held up in moderation. Basically, I have an appt. tomorrow. Thank you all for your advice.

  178. 178
    smedley the uncertain says:

    @JanieM: Thank You.

  179. 179
    J R in WV says:

    @C Stars:

    You need to see a dentist, because tenderness in your tooth is so much less than the pain you are having now. And STOP taking tylenol, it dissolves your liver. Take Aleve instead, but no more than recommended, as it will dissolve your kidneys.

    Seriously, if pain is worse than the doctor discussed, that means it is MORE important to go see him sooner!!!

  180. 180
    J R in WV says:

    @Immanentize:

    @Mnemosyne: This is teh premise of every house hunter show — “I hate this place because of the color of the paint in the third bedroom.”

    Wait!! You mean you can PAINT a bedroom a new, different color???

    THIS changes EVERYTHING!!!

  181. 181
    J R in WV says:

    @JPL:

    I replied: “I don’t like pancakes either. Too soggy.” What I do love are crisp-on-the outside- mellow-within waffles, lightly spread with unsalted butter then topped with a light snowfall of confectioner’s sugar. Never would I sog them down with syrup!

    Gormless, pathetic, ignoramous regarding fried breakfast foods. Not qualified to write about food at all.

    I use mostly cornmeal to make pancakes with. Sometimes I make yeast based pancakes, other times I use baking powder. But they are always crisp and crunchy, especially around the edges. Grade B maple syrup is the best, more flavor, darker color.

    Fried in butter, don’t need to add any post cooking. Heat the Maple Syrup up in a small pot of really hot water while making the pancakes. Waffles are good too, but not necessary if you make the pancakes properly. Plus the waffle iron is harder to clean than the iron skillets.

    I have fed breakfast to a couple of dozen people the morning after after a big party with pancakes. Yeast raised pancake batter just keeps swelling up for more people.

  182. 182
    TenguPhule says:

    @J R in WV:

    Plus the waffle iron is harder to clean than the iron skillets.

    I feel your pain.

  183. 183
    WaterGirl says:

    @C Stars: Did they give you an antibiotic? Because I had crazy pain after my root canal 4 weeks ago that 4 advil 4x a day couldn’t touch. He prescribed Tylenol with codeine on top of the 4 advil 4x a day, and I swear at penicillin pill #5 all the pain just stopped. I would bet my house it was the penicillin that made the difference.

    I’m sorry you’re going through this. I am dental phobic so I couldn’t even read all the way through what you wrote, so apologies if I missed a critical detail.

  184. 184
    Doug says:

    @Leto: Thanks for the pointer.

    Are you saying that training, cooperation, interoperability, etc. are the same for the NATO members and non-members in the region?

    Are you saying that the level of political commitment, especially under the current US administration, is the same?

  185. 185
    Jay says:

    @Doug:

    Training, interoperability is all the same,

    NATO’s commitment’s solid,

    America? BuwahahahahAhahaha,

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