Just read a piece in The Atlantic by Chuck Todd and came away impressed. I know — I’m as surprised as anyone. A few excerpts:
Some of the wealthiest members of the media are not reporters from mainstream outlets. Figures such as Rush Limbaugh, Matt Drudge, and the trio of Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, and Laura Ingraham have attained wealth and power by exploiting the fears of older white people. They are thriving financially by exploiting the very same free-press umbrella they seem determined to undermine…
I’ve seen a nearly 50-year campaign to delegitimize the press, and I’m saying so. For years, I didn’t say a word about this publicly, and at times I even caught myself drawing false equivalencies because I was afraid of being labeled as biased. I know that stating the obvious will draw attacks, but I’ve also learned that the louder critics bark, the more they care about what’s being reported.
I’m not advocating for a more activist press in the political sense, but for a more aggressive one. That means having a lower tolerance for talking points, and a greater willingness to speak plain truths. It means not allowing ourselves to be spun, and not giving guests or sources a platform to spin our readers and viewers, even if that angers them. Access isn’t journalism’s holy grail—facts are.
Emphasis mine because damn! Todd sounds almost overly prepared.
rikyrah
Don’t trust it. Period.??
Cheryl Rofer
As I read this,
I thought about politicians and their talking points. Some of the rot started with allowing them to spout what they want, rather than pressing them for an answer. The current version of that, on the politician side, is the Very Concerned tweets and sound bites from people like Ben Sasse and Jeff Flake, who then go on to enable Trump.
It’s good for politicians to be called on the carpet. All that said, I have my doubts about Chuckie.
Schlemazel
Well, those are some very sweet words. I will be watching to see if there are behaviours to match. I am not confident but hopeful
Kay
Interesting. I have a slightly different take on him. I always felt watching him that he was uncomfortable with the bullshit part of his job. He seemed really conflicted, like he knew it was bad.
I think it’s good some of them are re-examining their role. I don’t think their approach and methods are working. I have no idea how to fix it but they need to try something else. It’s the lying. If politicians are just going to lie to their faces and then not back down or admit it when they’re called out then the whole premise of “interview” is no longer valid.
“Access” doesn’t really work either in that environment either. I read some “insider” account of the Trump Administration and I can’t believe a word they say- insiders, outsiders, doesn’t matter. They lie so much it’s useless. The “insider” account is just as likely to be a collection of lies, too.
It’s to the point that when I read an account of what Trump is doing overseas I think about who the other party (country) is and wonder if people in THAT country are getting a more accurate picture- their political leaders may or may not be huge liars so I might get an accurate account from what their leader says. I need someone credible as a witness.
Platonailedit
Will believe it when I see it. Words are cheap.
Baud
@rikyrah: This. Take it but don’t trust it.
Lapassionara
@Cheryl Rofer: I agree. I saw just a few minutes of his questions a few days ago, and they were dreadful. Such a namby pamby, and no follow up. Journalists should prepare for interviews like good lawyers prepare for depositions.
Cheryl Rofer
I’m reading the article this morning. I saw it last night, but I’m not good at processing stuff at night. This is good –
The Iraq War was a major failure of journalism. I’ll admit that Judy Miller led me astray on the aluminum tubes. But even then I had questions about what she reported as the intelligence community consensus, because I knew some of the people that would include. Back then, I was less outspoken, and social media (blogging) didn’t count for as much. So even if I had spoken out, it probably would have gone unnoticed.
Cheryl Rofer
@Lapassionara: Yes.
Journalists should prepare for interviews like good lawyers prepare for depositions.
Cheryl Rofer
@Cheryl Rofer: That should be in a quote box.
Kay
The lying is spreading too, in the GOP. Which makes perfect sense. It worked for Trump so they all feel free to just lie their asses off. It was naive to think it wouldn’t get worse. It’s spreading like an infection.
There’s no price they pay.
I guess the assumption is “honestly is its own reward”, or something, but that seems very pie in the sky to me and unlikely to happen.
One thing Congress could do (if Dems take a chamber) is start enforcing their own rules about lying at hearings. If the rules aren’t strong enough they should write some new ones. They make their own rules. If they have any respect for the work that they do and that institution it can’t just be a lying free for all.
A Ghost To Most
Chuck Toady sees young gun journos making their bones on real reporting, and fellow stenographers like Chinchilla and Dancing Dave becoming irrelevant.
Cheryl Rofer
He’s explicitly attacking Fox. That’s new for journos, I think. The more responsible ones must be as irritated at Fox as we are at the Republicans’ ease of lying. It’s an asymmetric weapon, and very powerful, as we’ve seen.
It’s hard to believe that Todd didn’t get permission from his bosses at NBC to publish this. Will be interesting to see if he walks the talk.
swiftfox
Todd and Cilizza were frequent guests invited to talk “politics” on the Tony Kornheiser sports radio show from 2012-2016. Since Kornheiser left radio for podcasts I don’t know if they have continued. They were all very chummy with each other as part of the 1% club.
Kay
I’m just glad to some self-examination- moving off the defensive posture and looking at what’s happened.
I just don’t think they can use the same approaches they have always used. It’s not working.
I DO think it’s a difficult problem though and it won’t be solved by calling them “LIAR!” like a magic word. I have no idea how to fix it but denying it isn’t constructive. It’s a challenge. Their work is not cutting it in this new environment.
germy
Ah. So that explains why Todd recently yelled “Are you a Socialist?!” at Andrew Gillum.
OzarkHillbilly
“The man who moves a mountain starts with a single stone.” It’s a start. We’ll see where he goes with it.
But her emails!!!
Do we really want to know what the aliens did with the real Chuck Todd or just an iron clad legal agreement that they won’t be letting him escape?
Platonailedit
@Kay: They know the rethugs’ talking points well in advance. What they lack is the integrity or the backbone to rebut those talking points.
Cheryl Rofer
@Kay: I’ve had the feeling, too, that Todd is not always comfortable with the role he’s playing, that there is some journalistic conscience in there.
This is a real danger to the country, as well as keeping us confused as to what is happening. I finished reading Jeffrey Lewis’s “2020 Commission Report” last night, and part of what brings about a nuclear war with North Korea is the leaders’ mistaken perceptions. I’ll write a review, but you can see one manifestation of the problem in Mike Pompeo’s continuing demands for North Korea to hand over their nuclear weapons. They’re just not going to. Does Pompeo believe that? Is he humoring Trump?
rikyrah
@germy:
Uh huh ??
Saw that bullshyt ?
rikyrah
Dear Front Pagers:
raven posted a link to a story about the furthering of ethnic cleansing in our immigration system…this time targeting Vietnamese boat people
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/thousands-of-vietnamese-including-offspring-of-us-troops-could-be-deported-under-tough-trump-policy/2018/08/30/8de80848-a6d0-11e8-b76b-d513a40042f6_story.html?utm_term=.279988b61339
Platonailedit
Platonailedit
OzarkHillbilly
Laughing my ass off: Tiffany Haddish Took Will & Jada Pinkett Smith on a Groupon Swamp Tour.
Chyron HR
@swiftfox:
Todd and Cilizza were frequent guests invited to talk “politics” on the Tony Kornheiser sports radio show from 2012-2016.
As the kids these days say,
“Do you have any books about Fortnite?”“Why?”jonas
@Cheryl Rofer: …keeping in mind that 90% of the time, a media outlet answering for a “mistake” is simply being worked by the refs on the right. Meanwhile, no-one is made to answer for the *actual* acts of journalistic malpractice — being Cheney’s stenographers in the run-up to the Iraq War, or treating Trump as a wacky, reality show-style ratings-booster rather than a dangerous threat to the Republic, to name just a few.
EZSmirkzz
Media consolidation, what could go wrong?!
Who could’ve known!
Surely this must be an unintended consequence thangy I here about on the news!
Look ! A butterfly!!
Kay
@Platonailedit:
Good. 2006 was wonderful.
Cheryl Rofer
@jonas: Yes – That’s why I thought that quote was significant. He’s talking about the *actual* acts of journalistic malpractice. We have to admit our mistakes before we can correct them. If we do the right things, we have a lot of mistake-admitting to come.
jonas
@rikyrah: Dems should start treating ICE like Republicans treat the IRS — cut its budgets; harass its directors with myriad hearings and investigations; badmouth them until people want to spit on the ground every time they hear its name; basically make it impossible for them to function — until they knock this shit off.
Betty Cracker
@Cheryl Rofer: I’ve got “2020 Commission” on my to-read list. I’ll wait for your review.
Platonailedit
@OzarkHillbilly: She is funny, smart and boy, fast talking.
rikyrah
@OzarkHillbilly:
One of the funniest stories ever??
Platonailedit
@jonas: Bingo.
rikyrah
Anyone have the name of the new movie about Russia and the 2016 Election?
I think that it’s on Netflix or Hulu and I would like to see it
rikyrah
Anyone watch the entire Jack Ryan series on Amazon?
I am only on episode 2.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Kay,
Did you see that the Kansas Supreme Court wants a grand jury convened for Kobach?
Cheryl Rofer
@Betty Cracker: Will try to do a review today or tomorrow. I recommend it unreservedly, so you can start reading now!
Kay
@Cheryl Rofer:
I think they have to admit the standards have slipped. Remember how they tagged Obama with a lie when he said “you can keep your doctor”? That was treated as a huge deal. Trump will have 40 lies that big in a single speech.
OTOH, I think people underestimate how difficult it is to deal with people who lie as a matter of course. In my work it is the single most frustrating thing I deal with and I haven’t cracked the code. They get away with a good 50% of the time despite my preparation, objecting, introducing evidence, fighting like hell, etc. It’s HARD. The system isn’t set up for constant, blatant lying. It demands extraordinary effort and sometimes even that fails.
MomSense
@rikyrah:
Yup. Not buying this from Todd. Now that MSNBC/NBC is being dragged for its choice to provide cover for Weinstein, they are going to pretend to have seen the light.
And underlying all of these road to Damascus moments for journalists and GOP operatives, is the realization that there are more people and money in the liberal resistance.
Baud
@jonas: Unfortunately, the IRS affects a lot more voters than ICE does. It’s not a politically equivalent fight.
MJS
Oddly, in a relatively long piece, unless I missed a passing reference, Chuck never identifies the political party that has been behind the demonization of the press, and the beneficiary of Fox News’ bias.
rikyrah
Those who made this happen will NEVER BE FORGIVEN ??
https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1035981917055840259
Betty Cracker
@rikyrah: My husband did, and I saw a good bit of it since I was in the same room most of the time. I like Krasinski.
Platonailedit
@Baud: Not everything is about political expediency.
Procopius
@Cheryl Rofer:
I do not have the power to read minds. I do not have any idea what he thinks or feels. All I can know is what he actually says or does not say. I think it’s useful to remember he is an entertainer, not a journalist. In fact, it’s useful to remember than almost all of them are entertainers, nor journalist. I believe this is true of Rachel Maddow, too, although there was a time when I hoped it would not be. I think it’s good to spend as little time as I must reading U.S. publications and as much time as I can reading foreign publications. This is not foolproof. In 2002 I read in The Economist (an English publication) that both the American State Department Bureau of Research and Intelligence and the Department of Energy were saying loudly that the aluminum tubes were completely unsuitable for centrifuges. I knew from reading history and from my Army chemical weapons training that the “mobile biological warfare labs” and the necessary stocks of poison gas were fiction. As I say, this is not foolproof. The story of the Skripals is so obviously a hoax that it’s embarrassing, yet the British press is quietly accepting it.
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah:
I think it’s Active Measures.
thruppence
@rikyrah: The movie is called Active Measures and it is currently on Hulu. I haven’t had the time to see it yet, but I’ll make the time this week.
rikyrah
Of course, it’s going to get ugly with Dolt45..
Duh!?
https://twitter.com/Eugene_Robinson/status/1036792666216902657
Baud
@Platonailedit: No, but it’s good to remember that not everything will be as politically successful as what the other side has achieved n
MomSense
@MJS:
Nope. He doesn’t. He also is co trusting his body of work and defending it. I don’t think we should read into this piece self awareness or regret that isn’t really there.
rikyrah
Spell out what Dolt45 is doing ??
https://twitter.com/SallyQYates/status/1036747743870574592
rikyrah
@thruppence:
Thank you ?
NotMax
Todd was competent at disbursing information about numbers when he was at The Hotline and then early on when he moved to MSNBC and stayed in his lane.
Dealing solely with words, not so much. He’s pretty much proven repeatedly he’s a boob in that arena. The Peter Principle at work once again.
Cheryl Rofer
@Kay:
Yes. There has to be a modicum of good faith on all sides, and the Republicans and Fox have abused that. No good faith at all, only working the system for more power.
In a general way, continuing to point this out is part of the defense. In specific cases, particularly in the structure of the legal system that you work in, it’s very difficult.
In journalism, Todd and others are starting to wake up to that difficulty. They don’t have answers yet, but recognizing the problem is the first step.
Cheryl Rofer
@Procopius: With all due respect, I believe you have conflated later reports here.
I’m pretty sure I subscribed to the Economist back then, and that is precisely the information I was looking for. It came out later, by some years, that that was the case. But in the runup to the war, it was all mushed together as “the intelligence community.” I was looking very hard for what the DOE had to say. It wasn’t available to most of us in 2002.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: My ex-wife is a pathological liar. Trust me, there is no “system” that can deal with them, there is only cutting them out, root and stem.
Platonailedit
@Baud: How is bringing back accountability to govt agencies not a big success?
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
You get it then. The idea that you’ll just “call them out” or “present evidence” becomes laughable.
Sad, resigned, hopeless laughing but still laughable :)
You end up with such contempt for the people who don’t see them for what they are, and partly that’s because you can’t deal directly with THEM- it’s impossible. Sometimes the passage of time takes care of it, though. Eventually and maddeningly slowly, people catch on if you can just keep them lying publicly long enough. That’s ONE good thing about them- they do not know how to quit when they are ahead. Court cases are loooong – eventually they push too hard and lose credibility but I don’t kid myself- that’s the passage of time. It’s nothing I did. I just stuck around long enough to watch it happen.
p.a.
Late is better than never, but this turnaround suddenly comes when mainstream journos are suddenly in actual physical danger from Trascists, does it not? Oh noes! My ox is being gored! Oh the humanity.
Also too, as above: I’LL judge his actions, not his mea culpa.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
Yeah. I tried calling her out. I tried presenting evidence. Her stories just changed to fit the new facts. I finally “caught” her, made her “face it”, got her into counseling. After about 6 months I knew she was lying about the counseling.
It just never ends.
MobiusKlein
@OzarkHillbilly: The man who starts with a stone is a fool. To move a mountain, start with a plan.
OzarkHillbilly
Help! Stop me before I Tiffany Haddish again!
Tiffany Haddish Killed an Old Man by Dancing on Him at a Bar Mitzvah
“I was like, I didn’t want to dance no more, this ass is deadly.”
Tim C.
@Betty Cracker: finished it last weekend. It’s good but not great. Without spoilers I want to say a couple things.
The south Koreans make some really dumb moves in the narrative that don’t strike me as realistic.
While I understand it’s not the focus of the book, some of the events “off stage” of the main narrative don’t make a lot of sense to me. I would love to hear Cheryl’s take on it though as someone who is far more informed than me. Maybe it’s own thread in the near future? It’s a quick read.
OzarkHillbilly
@MobiusKlein: But first we have to have a meeting, but before we can have a meeting, we have to have a meeting about what we are going to have a meeting about. And then we need to have a meeting to decide seating arrangements. And then….
rikyrah
Last call for Deportation Nation ??
http://zandarvts.blogspot.com/2018/09/last-call-for-deportation-nation-cont.html
Villago Delenda Est
He’s still going on a tumbrel ride. His sins are multiple and indelible, and unforgivable.
rikyrah
Is there a doctor in the house?
If Black, think twice before following that Hippocratic Oath??
Damn, we can’t even be Good Samaritans ?
https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1036965160987049984
The Ancient Randonneur
@OzarkHillbilly:
Seating arrangements? We haven’t even decided on table size.
OzarkHillbilly
@The Ancient Randonneur: Or shape. 2 more meetings we need to have a meeting about.
bystander
Moanin’ Joe and Meeka were all limbered up today. They went from Olympic freestyle Pearl Clutching over why co-speakers were boycotting David Remnick’s upcoming discussion with Steve Bannon to a double death spiral exhorting Sheldon Whitehouse to refuse to attend today’s hearings with Kavanaugh. The only thing missing was The Toddler to bemoan tribalism.
Do these people ever listen to themselves? Can you imagine if Dems got up and walked out of today’s hearing?
RandomMonster
I’m not going to hold my breath. After all, he’s already missing the actual biggest story of the 21st century— the Russian mob-controlled president.
Yarrow
@Cheryl Rofer:
Chuck Todd used to have some idea of what truth was but he decided that being part of the Village was more important than telling the truth. I remember the moment it happened.
In 2008 after Tim Russert died NBC was trying to figure out who should host Meet the Press. I think Tom Brokaw filled in for awhile until they gave it to Dancin’ Dave. During that time, Chuck Todd was the “numbers guy.”
After McCain picked Palin, Brokaw interviewed both of them and Chuck Todd got to tag along. Right after those two walked out from that interview with McCain and Palin they were interviewed by someone else at NBC about the interview. Brokaw did his usual Villager thing but Chuck Todd couldn’t fake it like that. His eyes were huge. He started to say something about how McCain and Palin didn’t get along or there wasn’t much agreement in that room or something and Brokaw cut him off. He shut up after that. That was the moment.
JGabriel
@Kay:
I remember that when Bush fils was President, I used to complain that listening to him was completely useless because he lied half the time – so it was always 50/50 whether you were getting the truth or a lie.
Ironically, it’s actually more fruitful to listen to Trump – because with Trump, you can automatically assume he’s lying, and know that you’ll be right about 75-80% of the time.
tobie
@RandomMonster: my thoughts exactly. We have a Russian stooge in the White House and a minority government run by a party that is itself compromised, and Chuck Todd doesn’t have the temerity to mention it, much less call them (the GOP out)? Nope, not buying the mea culpa.
Kosh III
@Cheryl Rofer:
The biggest missed story is Climate Change Catastrophe in the very near future.
coloradoblue
Edward R. Murrow once said that sometimes the press has to take sides. Todd has only taken an tiny half-step.
Try harder Chuck.
Villago Delenda Est
@Yarrow: The moment his name was written in indelible ink in the tumbrel manifest.
Keith P.
Alternate-dimension Chuck Todd (sans goatee) wrote that.
raptusregaliter
Fuck Chuck Todd. This Sunday we’ll have Meet the Republicans just like always.
PaulWartenberg
Where the hell was he 20 years ago when these attacks on journalism as a profession was in full force by Ailes and Limbaugh and Gods help us the Far Right establishment?
He’s only going here now because he’s getting the dawning realization he’s gonna end up in jail under a trump dictatorship.
I’ll believe him sticking up for *my* Journalism profession – Bachelors in Journalism, UFlorida 1992 – when he stops inviting Far Right assholes onto his shows and starts inviting actual fcking experts on the topics at hand. I’ll believe him when he gets the rest of the talk show industry to agree to an ethical standard of disinviting pundits who keep LYING or shilling BS agendas on their shows.
Steeplejack
@Procopius:
Whut?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
good on him if he had some kind of personal awakening, but two Chuck Todd moments that stand out in my long and bitter memory: 1) when Boehner retired and sang “zippity-doo-dah”, Chuck assured us that this was the John Boehner you got to know behind the camera, when you were having a drink or (I swear he said this) finishing a round of golf. No mention of the years of obstruction, most specifically on immigration, which would have passed if he brought it to a vote, but that would have cost him his speakership, so he gave up his speakership and walked away. 2) After I think the second debate, when Kellyanne Conway demanded to be brought back on camera to spew more filth. The rest of the panel was marveling (too nicely) at her ability to talk without taking a breath, and as they went to a delayed commercial break, Chuck assumed the most fatuous expression you can imagine and said, “She’s not just good at her job, she’s a good person”. He’s infatuated with his insider status, and his social life featuring famous and powerful people. Hollywood for ugly people indeed.
again, if he’s turned over a new leaf, good for him
The Moar You Know
@OzarkHillbilly: I was raised by one. To this day, I don’t do well with judging what is real. At least I know I don’t do that well, which helps.
J R in WV
@Procopius:
I too lack the power to read minds remotely, over the intertubes. Your post was going along so well, and making so much sense, until the last sentence:
How do you conclude from open source information that the Skripals were not poisoned by a substance only available to Russian agents? Didn’t one of the Skripals die in hospital? Wouldn’t such a hoax have to be founded by MI6 / MI5? Or do you suppose somehow that the British government did the poisoning?
Or are you in fact a Russian troll spreading Russo-Fake news?
I used to have you in the pie filter but took you out of my list! Was that my first mistake regarding your information?
James E Powell
@rikyrah:
Saw the whole thing. Don’t want to spoil anything. I was not impressed with the story. Saw the whole thing as a waste of a good cast.
J R in WV
@J R in WV:
@Steeplejack:
Or as you say… Whut?
I’m thinking back in the pie filter… what do you all think?
EZSmirkzz
Well Betty, “It’s Time Like These” when you learn to trust again. I regret my earlier comments on Chuck’s essay. That being said, I suppose I’ll have to read Woodward’s new book now, although I’ve long considered him to be the pinnacle of access journalism, and the rot at the core of the information age. This change of mind is some what inspired by reading Alan Rusbridger’s piece in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/31/alan-rusbridger-who-broke-the-news “Who Broke the News?”
It is rare occasion for me to admit to be wrong, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhzmNRtIp8k but in this case I’ve decided to give the whole shebang another look with soft eyes. My cynicism has it’s limits.
Also too, to all a good fuck your pie filters. (gotta be me)
Steeplejack (phone)
@J R in WV:
I, too, saw that as a weird niblet in an otherwise same comment. I don’t use the pie filter; I just try to skip the craziness.
EZSmirkzz
@Steeplejack (phone): What, you don’t just saddle up next to the crazy and lick its’ ear?
Sloegin
Chuck Todd’s comments sound like Scrooge saying “Merry Christmas” just before voting Tory in the next election.
celticdragonchick
@Yarrow:
celticdragonchick
@celticdragonchick:
Interesting, and depressing.
celticdragonchick
@Procopius:
How is the poisoning story a hoax? I was in the Army also, and I ran the unit chemical warfare decontamination station. Explain to me how poisoning several dozen people (and killing one of them) was a hoax.
Turgidson
Area man decides it’s time to rid his hen house of foxes after twenty years of pretending the foxes were just hens with equally valid and sincerely held points of view.
Turgidson
@Kay:
I’ll have some confidence that Chucklehead Todd is serious about being a journalist rather than a sock puppet for false equivalence and GOP chicanery when he acknowledges that GOP lies are not just “messaging successfully.” This article is a step in that direction, but I’ll believe he’s changed when he actually starts challenging this shit in real time and, I can dream, owns up to some of the whoppers he let slide or actively enabled with his admitted, heavy, use of the false equivalence crutch.
PJ
@@Cheryl Rofer: Rofer: I remember the claims about the aluminum tubes being questioned right after the Bush Administration presented them (the papers I would have been reading at the time were the Post, the Times, and the Guardian), and just dug this up from the web which confirms it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/09/iraq.usa . It was a piece with all of the BS that Bush and his team had been spewing since 9/11.
ET
I have been watching Todd for a few weeks and the one thing tRump has done is possibly begin to undermine Broderism, both-sides ism, etc. It isn’t gone, but the veneer that the press used as a shield because the were afraid of getting beat up by the right is thinning and watching him of all people, is a very clear example of this.
central texas
“…and next week our guests will be Attila the Hun, V. Putin, and Steve Bannon to debate the pros and cons of authority and government.”
As the Romans knew. Deeds not Words!
See: https://driftglass.blogspot.com/ for further nasty leftwing disrespect for Shuck Todd, as he puts it.