I despise Meghan McCain’s smug, shallow millennial-con shtick. But that doesn’t mean I was unable to appreciate the spectacle of Ms. McCain shitting all over Trump while eulogizing her father and hurling a MAGA-mocking cow-pie right in the faces of funeral crashers Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump this weekend.
That’s not a universally held opinion, if my Twitter feed is any indication. Some folks are insinuating that those who relished Ms. McCain’s denunciation of Trump are in effect enrolling her in the Resistance.
Another flashpoint: TV cameras caught George W. Bush passing a piece of candy to Michelle Obama, and people thought that was cute:
George Bush sneaking Michelle Obama some candy during John McCain's funeral might be the video that saves the Republic pic.twitter.com/GvQscSvO5y
— Robert Maguire (@RobertMaguire_) September 2, 2018
Not everybody, though:
The cute passing of candy to Michelle would be enough to make me forgive the network of secret torture sites, lawless surveillance, and letting bin Laden get away but the unnecessary war that destabilized the region for a generation + collapse of world economy is still too much.
— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) September 2, 2018
Okay, fair enough. Here’s another take on the significance of it all — that it wasn’t significant at all, actually:
12. The message of the funeral was "once we get rid of Trump, the grown-ups can take over again." Sorry, won't work. You had your chance and you muffed it.
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) September 2, 2018
I get that point of view and largely agree with it. The funeral attendees included a rogue’s gallery of Republican villains, and it was in no way a civic turning point as some folks, like The New Yorker’s Susan Glasser, have suggested.
But McCain’s giant “fuck you” from beyond the grave to the president of his own party wasn’t nothing either. What it does is raise questions.
Are we supposed to make common cause with the Republicans who bother to object to Trump’s authoritarian impulses? Should Never-Trump Republicans get credit for opposing Trump, even if they are amoral assholes in their own right, who materially contributed to Trump’s rise?
Maybe it depends on how one classifies Trump. Is he a worse president than George W. Bush? I think so, but you can certainly make a solid case that Bush was worse on body count alone.
Bush was a terrible president. His appreciation for the fabulous Michelle Obama notwithstanding, there’s plenty of evidence he is a shitty person too. Like every Republican president in my lifetime, he at least cynically used his party’s racism, homophobia, gun fixation and fetus fetish to improve his political prospects, even if he’s not an overt racist, homophobe, ammosexual or enemy of reproductive freedom personally.
During Bush’s terrible administration, I worried about many things, including the lives of loved ones caught up in the senseless, ruinous, deadly war he lied to start. I worried about my personal financial future and the country’s economic stability due to the worldwide financial meltdown Bush and his gang of greedy shitheads precipitated. I worried about gay rights, women’s rights and gun safety.
But I never worried about George W. Bush being a foreign autocrat’s stooge. I never worried about him calling in a preemptive nuclear strike on his sole authority as a response to a personal grievance. He didn’t lead mobs baying for the incarceration of the other party’s nominee. He didn’t encourage the mob-harassment of reporters. He didn’t baldly assert that a domestic revolt by sore winners would result in violence, chaos and ruin if his party lost control of a chamber during an election.
So yeah, the Republican Party hatched Trump under the heat lamp of its racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia. And without exception, its elected members are too goddamned spineless to stand up to the monster they helped create. The Republican Party’s utter defeat is the only remedy to our current woes. I don’t think any sensible Democrat is disputing that.
But I don’t think it’s wrong to see a glimmer of hope in key figures in the political establishment coming together around McCain and pointedly excluding Trump — otherizing Marmalade Mugabe. And I don’t think it’s wrong to hope McCain’s massive and posthumous “fuck you” to Trump wasn’t completely in vain.
If our democracy survives this crisis, I’ll remember who was for America, and the list will include people I don’t like or agree with. I don’t think that’s the same as losing sight of who they are.
It’s more like triaging marauding dragons to be slain (metaphorically, of course). Let’s focus on the big, hideous orange one first.
Baud
We need to compartmentalize a bit more IMHO.
Mnemosyne
Personally, I like to use people like the McCains in the same way the MSM uses any liberal or lefty dissenters against the Democrats: Even the conservative Meghan McCain says that Trump is a dumpster fire! Turnabout, fair play, etc.
Also, the following video of a guy meeting his idol, Bill Murray, made me howl with laughter. Don’t worry, no one was seriously injured in the making of it:
https://mobile.twitter.com/atdanwhite/status/1029040768730771456
JGabriel
Betty Cracker @ Top:
Or like humans making common cause with orcs to take out the Lecher King.
Cheryl Rofer
I think we have to ally with anyone who can help to remove Trump and return the US to constitutional rule. We can fight with them later, and we will, but we have to get the country back first.
Corner Stone
Until they stop bashing the way D’s run elections, and come out loud and proud that everyone must vote D for the good of the nation – across the board – they can all go fuck themselves.
rikyrah
???
Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) Tweeted:
BREAKING: Nike had been paying Colin Kaepernick all along, waiting for the right moment. That moment is now, as he becomes the face of the company’s 30th anniversary of the “Just Do It” campaign. https://t.co/uccpDStbq5 https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1036697374452867072?s=17
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I want to believe, I try to hope, but…
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@rikyrah:
Cue RWNJ buying pairs of Nike’s and burning/shooting/blowing them up to protest
rikyrah
Seeing Meghan’s speech made all the difference. Especially after finding out that Senator Pittypat foisted Jarvanka upon her mother. Meghan’s rage was palpable. The transcript was one thing… seeing it brought a whole other meaning to it.
JPL
@rikyrah: That made me happy.
Baud
I see no lasting significance flowing out of the funeral.
Litlebritdifrnt
I thought my Country made a huge mistake with Brexit, the voters were blatantly lied to by the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage and unfortunately they fell for the bullshit lies. I though my adopted Country made a huge mistake electing Trump, again the voters were lied to and they fell for it hook,line and sinker. Thankfully my Country is having a serious rethink of the horseshit that was Brexit. I can only hope that America will do the same about Trump. We have to at some point decide that cooler heads have to prevail, by whatever means. We cannot let the mob rule. If we do then we as a planet are lost.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I forget why Flake doesn’t like Trump. It’s definitely because of not his policies.
MagdaInBlack
@rikyrah:
I saw that, and my reaction was the same as yours ?
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
Alright, I guess I’m buying Nikes from now on.
Okay, probably not the shoes, because the toe box is too small and crushes my pinky toe, but definitely the exercise wear.
Ruckus
We’ve had allies before that we normally wouldn’t even talk to. Stalin comes to mind. He was no saint, savior, good guy. He was a horrendous dictator. But he fought our common enemy and we worked with him to do it. And 5 minutes after the war, he was our enemy again.
Maybe we need to do this with the anti drumpfers. The enemy of our enemy and all that. At this point the survival of the country is important. We can fix the shit afterwards, but survival is paramount now. Unless you think that the survival of the country isn’t the best outcome. But if anyone thinks that, what is your plan if you are successful?
hilts
Betty,
It’s said that even a broken clock provides the correct time twice a day. This sort of sums up how I feel about Meghan McCain. Over the years, I’ve seen enough of her on cable news shows and on The View to conclude that she’s an obnoxious and deeply repulsive individual. Hearing her remarks at her dad’s funeral was the first time I ever found myself in agreement with her.
With respect to George W. Bush, I thought he was a terrible president but I never once questioned his mental stability. I question Donald Trump’s mental stability every single day. Trump has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he’s batshit crazy and I fear for the future of this planet as long as he remains in office.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
Since the thread below is probably dead, this is my response to M^4’s question about my “novel” so that he can see it:
Haven’t started since I don’t have the time atm. Between work and school I’m way too busy.
But I have a rough idea in my head what I want it to be. Most of the basic elements have stayed the same. I still feel conflicted on when time period I should put it in. I’ve considered the 2000s, since I’m more familiar with the culture of that era. (Yes, I know that sounds weird coming from a 23 y/o but I really don’t get modern social networks).
The type of story I want to tell would also dovetail pretty nicely with that time period, since it’s a tale that deals with abuse of power and whether power is legitimately being wielded, among other things. I think it would be very interesting to show how a society that has just recovered from 9/11 would react to a magic-user(s) suddenly appearing and wrecking havoc in a major metropolitan area and what the government’s response would be.
In my mind, the government would do in everything in their power to capture/neutralize the threat as it would potentially constitute a national security problem. But even beyond that, magic would be a threat to the status quo, to the government’s power itself, not just the general American public, so it would be sort of self-serving as well.
Haven’t decided yet who the protag would be. Can it be shared? One of them would be from a fantasy Earth based on Arthurian legend, accidentally sent to our Earth, which would lead to all sorts of funny culture-shock schannigans. Probably an adventurer, shonen-type hero or something. Hint: both universes were one in the same, hence the legends in our world.
The other would be a seemingly normal girl who gets caught up in the mess and finds out she can use the same abilities somehow. The aunt would be the same and the corrupt corporate executive guy (I’m leaning more towards a mixture of Lex Luthor, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg now. Think I should name the character Jeremy something. It sounds white-tech-broey) would still seek ultimate power, would still be a closet fascist/xenophobe/white supremacist and would now rail (secretly) about the evils of “identity poltics” and how everything would be better if he ruled humanity. Basically, what would happen if a normal, real-life human with malevolent intentions gained omnipotence.
The plot would mainly consist of avoiding the federal government and corrupt corporate dude, using magical powers to help people (like superheroes would in comics) and find a way home while seeking the all-powerful magical mcguffin before it falls into the wrong hands. The ideals of the male protag meeting the harsh realities of our world, where evil can often triumph over good, will also be important, considering the era especially. Have also considered Merlin popping up as an immortal forced to walk the Earth who has been captured by the corporation/US government as records and surveillance have become more complex over the last century.
PJ
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Betty Cracker: I’m with you, Betty. And I love “the Marmalade Mugabe”.
Republicans like Jeff Flake and McCain (“serious people”), who could have and can use their offices to rein in Trump, did not and will not because, for the most part, they are behind the Republican agenda 100%, and as long as the tax cuts and the right wing judges keep on coming, the other damage Trump does is not something they are overly concerned about.
Baud
@Baud: ” not because of”
Lack of edit makes us all stupid.
Lapassionara
@Baud: I think I need another vocabulary lesson. What do you mean about compartmentalizing?
ruemara
I think the problem is not her eulogy and anger at Trump. It’s like – see above – thinking she’s an ally. She’s not. She never will be. Don’t confuse anger at a common enemy as an alliance. She will never be a good decent person. She’s gone from an ok republican to being a gross, horrible, evil conservative shill. This moment of human decency for her father is not one she would do for anyone else. That’s the thing that’s making folks mad.
Meghan is not the resistance. McCain’s funeral was not a resistance event. Pundits saying that, are absolutely ridiculous. And I’m as annoyed at it as I am the whole idea that Melania isn’t a disgusting, complicit bigot and probably a gift to Trump. Yuck to both of it.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@rikyrah: I love it. But boy howdy did it bring out the usual horde of loud racists.
Yarrow
@Litlebritdifrnt: Theresa May has said there will not be a revote on Brexit. Never believe it’s true until they deny it.
debbie
@rikyrah:
That is all over my FB feed! I hope they paid him major bucks too.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Same here, the shoes don’t fit my weird feet. But the clothes? They make them in old man don’t they?
hilts
@rikyrah:
Lindsay Graham has denied reporting that he requested invitations be extended to Jared and Ivanka to attend the funeral service. Whether Graham was or was not behind this decision, he’s still an asshole for his shameless groveling before Trump.
debbie
@Baud:
It’s another chink in the wall. The more, the better. Wherever they may come from.
Baud
@Lapassionara:
In this context, I mean relating two things that don’t have much to do with each other. Chuckling at Bush’s candy caper, for example, doesn’t make one his best buddy.
smintheus
Contrition has to precede forgiveness. Making amends ought to as well, but we all know that Republicans almost never accept responsibility for their pernicious actions. Contrition is a pretty low threshold under these circumstances, and yet very few national Republican figures have expressed any contrition at all for the mess they wrought.
Screw that.
Mnemosyne
I’ve mentioned before that a passage from PG Wodehouse on the relative hateability of various people speaks to me when I think about the range of Republicans that are available for me to hate, loathe, and/or despise, and I was able to link to that short story’s page directly from Google Books. The actual passage is about 2/3rds down the page:
https://books.google.com/books?id=HC-OBeh2d3sC&lpg=PP1&dq=budleigh%20court%20wodehouse%20text&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q&f=false
Baud
@debbie: Agree. A chink. Not much more.
MagdaInBlack
Their display of shunning, shaming and selective disapproval is encouraging.
Let us hope it is followed by something more than more shocked pearl clutching
hitchhiker
Another example is Rick Wilson, currently on a book tour for Everything Trump Touches Dies. I can’t stand him, but I’m cheering all the way as he puts a vicious, snarky spin on the Republican party in its current state of being.
He made that ad where Max Cleland’s face morphed into Bin Laden’s, remember that?
And he’s proud of it. And he’s proud that it got Saxby Chambliss elected.
So, yeah. I can’t stand Rick Wilson. But I’m very glad he’s out there making a path for Republicans and Independents that leads to voting against Trump & every last person who supports him.
Meghan is just barely older than my kid, so I can’t help but cut her some slack. I know how it would be to watch my daughter try to deal with it if we lost Mr Hitchhiker.
Mnemosyne
@Ruckus:
Anyone can wear a hoodie these days, right? And they make some nice jackets.
For the ladies, they make some nice-looking skorts (meant for golfers) if you work in the kind of office job where you can occasionally have to climb a ladder or crawl under a desk but you still want or need to wear a skirt.
Tim C.
@Baud: It’s because Flake wants to be president someday and is betting being someone who had some cred as being against Trump before it all falls apart will be in good shape for 2024.
Central Planning
@Baud:
Are you sure that’s what does it?
Baud
@Central Planning: That, and the company we keep.
:-P
Central Planning
@Baud: :D
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
For me, the candy caper is more like, See, Michelle Obama is so amazing that even someone as terrible as W can’t help but be charmed by her. It shows how wonderful she is, not how secretly nice he is.
Ruckus
@hilts:
@hilts:
People like Meghan McCain were not who I had in mind about working with. People like, I think it’s Ralph Wilson, who is a republican through and through but hates drumpf with the heat of a thousand suns that could be the enemy of our enemy. McCain is only pissed a drumpf because it suits her on a personal basis, she seems to be more than OK with his policies. Wilson isn’t OK with anything about him.
My point is that if one is going to work with the enemy of our enemy it has to be on a case by case basis. It has to be about both policy and personal and then it’s beat the common enemy with us but we will be enemies the moment it’s over.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@hilts: Did he deny he asked for the invitations or did he just deny inviting them?
janesays
@Corner Stone: A few of them have said that people must vote for Democrats this fall… David Frum and Steve Schmidt come to mind. I think Jen Rubin and Nicolle Wallace as well.
MJS
I saw a clip of Meghan’s eulogy. I’m not impressed. She’s on TV virtually every day and barely uttered a peep about Trump unless it was related to her father. Now that the funeral is over, I expect she’ll revert to revolting conservative mode almost immediately.
hells littlest angel
Two things:
1. Allies and friends are two different things. If the second-rottenest motherfucker on earth helps take down Trump, fine. Once Trump is gone, the 2nd rmf on earth ceases to be an ally.
2. Any coward can deliver a fuck you from beyond the grave.
Steeplejack
@hilts:
I sort of question Dubya’s mental stability now. Some of his childish hijinks at public events make me wonder if he’s sundowning or something similar.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
Pretty sure Cindy gave LG the go-ahead to invite Ivanka and her bot-toy to the penultimate final rite at the National Cathedral. Megan was no doubt enraged, but because her daddy abandoned her, not because of Ivanka and her bot-toy.
Another Scott
@Baud: Yup, that’s my feeling too. I would be happy to be wrong.
Bill and Hillary attended Donnie’s and Melania’s wedding, after all… :-/
Politicians have to develop the skills to at least pretend to get along with people they vehemently disagree with when writing and bargaining over legislation. And they have to work with people that on some things that they oppose on other issues.
But we voters have a different job. Our job is to vote for people to represent us and act upon our needs and desires for the country. W giving Michelle some candy, or Meghan throwing a mountain of feces on top of Donnie, doesn’t change what we must do.
Yes, civility is needed in the halls of Congress. And it’s good in personal interactions as well. But we have a bunch of elections to win.
Eyes on the prize.
Cheers,
Scott.
WereBear
@rikyrah: That is seriously great news.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve never worn a skirt in my life!
Oh wait, you weren’t talking about me!
Yeah I have some Nike clothing but my feet are so weird that I’ve searched for months to find ones that fit. I have shoes that vary in size (9 1/2 to 11 1/2) and width, M to EW. I’ve never found a Nike shoe that fits. I used to sell bike and running shoes and that is by far the worst item of clothing to sell. It fits, it doesn’t fit. It’s too flashy, it’s not flashy enough. My whatever doesn’t like brand X, I only wear brand X…….. I don’t know, how do these look? They look like shoes? I probably got this about 40% of the time selling shoes. From adults.
J R in WV
@Tim C.:
The only way a Republican Senator get ANY cred against Trump is to vote against his nominees for everything. Saying “I don’t support Trump!” while voting for his shit doesn’t do it for anyone.
Steeplejack
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
“Wreaking havoc,” not “wrecking havoc.”
“Schannigans”? Shenanigans.
If you’re going to be a semi-pro writer, you need to tighten up your game. Only by honing your skills in the preseason training camp of an almost top 10,000 blog post will you be ready for the spotlight of the Locus Award for best first novel.
Tim C.
@Steeplejack: I think there’s a few things.
1) He was a big drunk and coke-head for a long time before he dried out. That comes back to haunt you.
2) More to the point, some of the stuff he’s done (Paintings of wounded and dead veterans from his war) have the air of someone who has at least had a glimmer of self-awareness in the time he has been out of office. I’m not forgiving him, I’m not even sympathetic to him, but I think I have enough empathy to maybe think he knows on some level what he did how much damage it caused. I think he’s a broken man inside.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
I thought the spectacle of the sitting president being excoriated by two former presidents and the daughter of candidate for president in the National Cathedral was pretty strong stuff. Max Boot had a pretty good piece on it. (I know, I know.)
janesays
@hells littlest angel: In fairness, he also delivered a pretty important fuck you from the floor of the U.S. Senate last summer. Yeah, it was purely out of spite, but without that spite, Obamacare would have been repealed that night.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
of a candidate for president
Steeplejack
@Baud:
Speaj for yourself.
Tim C.
@J R in WV: It does for Republicans and the mainstream media sadly, who 30 seconds after Trump’s fall with be looking to bothsides us back to May 2016. We both know that’s bullshit, but watch.
Tim C.
@Tim C.: I meant may 2015, before Trump announced.
Steeplejack
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
No joke. The comments were, uh, interesting.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@Ruckus: Yes, but Stalin actually fought against Hitler. How many republican votes are going to go against the new supreme court nominee? The one who says it’s not illegal if the president does it.
janesays
And to be clear, he deserves no more credit for that vote than any of the 48 Democrats or his GOP colleagues Collins and Murkowski, but he just as easily could have towed the party line, and he chose not to, even though he new when he cast it that his vote would be the final nail in the coffin of his party’s Obamacare repeal bill.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
And as I said on one of the other McCain threads, the audience is not BJ readers. The audience is the mushy middle who thought McCain was a mavericky hero. If they watched that funeral they got a strong negative message about Trump.
hells littlest angel
@janesays: Yup. That’s why I considered him an ally. A nasty piece of work, but an ally.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Steeplejack:
That’s what beta readers are for. And I blame autocorrect for those mistakes
ruemara
@Ruckus: I’m pretty sure you have the legs for a nice skirt.
Ruckus
@Steeplejack:
He’s 72, it’s easily possible. But I seem to recall that he wasn’t too tightly tied down as pres. I believe he’s always been a bit of a clown. I saw a thing on TV once, some reporter visited him at home. He seemed almost like an eccentric hermit to me, trying to be funny, not actually succeeding often.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Damn, the best pair of running shoes I ever had were these urine-yellow Nike LDVs sometime around 1980. And, of course, when they wore out and I went back to the store to replace them, they were gone forever. I still miss them today.
And, yes, I know that shoe tech has improved exponentially, but they were such a huge step up from my leather Adidas clunkers that it was like running on air. Nowadays the different shoes are like “Well, what kind of cloud do you want to run on?” Pussies.
This news makes me want to buy a Nike T-shirt, or maybe a little gym bag. I’ve been needing one of those.
wuzzat
@Another Scott:
Going to Trump’s wedding is like going to the State Fair. You go every couple of years for the food and the sideshow attractions, but you’re not under the illusion that fried butter on a stick is a good life choice.
Ruckus
@Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]:
Well first I can’t think of anyone who can vote on that who would qualify yet as an enemy of our enemy. Possibly there might be one or two but they sure haven’t revealed themselves yet. Let’s see how that vote goes, because at some point they have to take a stand against his ass and that would be a biggy
Roger Moore
Shorter: working with anti-Trump Republicans is like working with Stalin in WWII. Go after the greater evil first.
SiubhanDuinne
@J R in WV:
I have a sense, based on no evidence whatsoever, that the relationship between Megan and Cindy is perhaps a bit … strained? I never watch The View, so I have almost no knowledge or opinion of her, but what I’ve seen mostly doesn’t appeal that much.
A lot of people seem to want the AZ Gov to name Megan to her dad’s Senate seat. I would vastly prefer Cindy. (It’ll probably be neither.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Meghan McCain is horrible, but I suspect that in a week’s time she’ll be back to being the second or third most influential castmember of the View
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@zhena gogolia:
Speaking of Boot, this is one of his recent tweets:
That must be news to Garland and Obama. I’m sure if Mitch ever saw that tweet he’d laugh his way all the way to the Capitol Building to cast his vote for Brett.
Ruckus
@ruemara:
I’d have to shave them and you know how I feel about shaving.
But Thank You!
Even if you were giggling as you typed.
pat
Just read at the WaPo about David Remnick inviting Steve Bannon to the New Yorker Festival, supposedly to subject him to a proper interview.
Several participants have already cancelled, and several commenters have cancelled subscriptions.
Hmm, wonder where this will end…..
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
I love Wodehouse. Need to reread some.
I still chuckle over Shana’s recent report here that the UCLA chapter of the Wodehouse Society had Curtis Armstrong speak on “Nodders I Have Known.” A perfect Wodehouse title!
SiubhanDuinne
@wuzzat:
LOL
Cheryl Rofer
hilts
@Ruckus:
I agree with your sentiments. I don’t think Meghan McCain can be trusted as a reliable ally against Trump.
@Dorothy A. Winsor
h/t http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/404788-graham-ivanka-trumps-very-nice-comments-about-mccain-not-unnoticed-by-the
Steeplejack
@Tim C.:
I wouldn’t disagree with those points.
catclub
just in case you needed to read something depressing but factual.
The Economist who is the intellectual foundation for stealing democracy for oligarchs.
meet-the-economist-behind-the-one-percents-stealth-takeover-of-america
The article is from May 2018, so it has not yet burned up the internet. Maybe I can help.
hilts
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Lindsay Graham is a scumbag who’s completely in the tank for Trump so, as far as I’m concerned, he can go fuck himself
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cheryl Rofer: Good
If Remnick wanted to strut his journalistic stuff by taking on Bannon, he could’ve done it on youtube. As was said in another, but not very different, context today
Steeplejack
@janesays:
Lost in the uproar is the fact that apparently McCain voted against that ACA repeal bill not because he was a valiant champion of the ACA but because he objected to the procedural irregularities that led to it.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah. I’m not going to post Remnick’s statement here. It’s all about how we can best deal with crap like Bannon by engaging him and showing how bad his ideas are. I like Remnick, but that’s a lot of ego.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steeplejack:
You may or not be aware of this fact, but you save me an inordinate amount of time by posting exactly what I was going to post before I get around to posting it! Was seriously going to reply to Goku re “wrecking havoc” and “schannigans,” but now I don’t have to.
Gravenstone
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: One of the local gun fondlers at work also has quite the impressive collection of Nike shoes. I imagine he’s rather… conflicted about this news.
hilts
@Steeplejack:
You may be correct about Bush’s mental functioning at this point in time, but today we have Trump who I think needs to be fitted for a straitjacket.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
catclub
@janesays:
George Fucking Will, too. Which amazed me.
Hugh Hewitt is saying the opposite – even if you hate Trump, vote GOP.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Which procedural irregularities he was fine with when it came to tax cuts
Steeplejack
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Once is autocorrect. Twice is sloppiness.
And if “schannigans” is in your autocorrect dictionary you need to upgrade ASAP. Unless Schannigan’s is your favorite bar and grill and you text about it a lot.
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer: You would think they would think these thought BEFORE announcing the schedule of speakers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Cheryl Rofer
@catclub: From his statement, I think Remnick canceled Bannon only because of the uproar. He still seems to think it was a good idea.
Another Scott
@Cheryl Rofer: Good. Another indication that being a squeaky wheel and demanding attention works.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
catclub
@Steeplejack:
The story of this old man’s clothing and shoes life.
hilts
@Cheryl Rofer:
I was shocked when I first heard about Steve Bannon’s invite because I’d recalled several of David Remnick’s appearances on cable tv over the past year in which he argued that it was imperative that Trump not be normalized.
Cheryl Rofer
I think I’ve seen five participants in the New Yorker festival tweet that they’re out. Wonder if they’ll come back now that Bannon is out.
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer:
so he either thought it is a great idea and there won’t be any uproar, or he thought there will be an uproar but that s he can outlast it, but when there is an actual uproar he promptly folds. I suspect he did not vet it with anyone who was not a yes-man.
Cheryl Rofer
@hilts: Remnick is a really, really good interviewer. But it looks to me like his ego has gotten ahead of him and he’s dreaming of an interview in which he destroys Bannon forever. That sort of thing hardly ever happens, even with good interviewers, and Bannon is the epitome of the living dead.
hilts
@catclub:
Hugh Hewitt has surpassed peak toolishness.
Suzanne
@Tim C.:
Ughhhhh Jeff Flake is so gross. So, so terrible.
I don’t know how we should deal as a society with these anti-Trump Republicans. They’re still terrible. I mean, I have advocated for permanent loss of the vote for anyone who did vote for Trump, but that is me talking out of anger and not out of reality. But it’s a tough question, because we cannot expect conservatives who hate Trump to become progressives because they hate Trump.
It would be nice to feel less conflicted about the opposition. I would like to feel like they are essentially nice people who just have a different view of how to achieve greater goals, but I don’t always feel that way.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Haha, I was just doing the New Yorker Monday puzzle and thinking, damn, am I going to have to give this up? Maybe Remnick will back down.
Another Scott
@Steeplejack: “Both sides have let this happen.”
St. John – always “The Maverick”. And always, always playing to the press.
For every good thing in that speech, there’s an equal or larger measure of standard GOP nonsense.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Cheryl Rofer:
There is kind of two sides to the argument.
For, Let people see what a shitheel SB is.
Against, He can get all the airtime he wants for his bullshit.
At this point I go with against. No matter what you say or do you are putting SB on the air. You are giving him legitimacy by even talking to him. Racists have been given legitimacy here since the founding of this country, it’s time to squash that. And nothing that is written in the NewYorker will counter his appearance. He has no legitimacy, his ideas are just wrong and no one should be rewarding him with print or air time. Remnick may think he’s doing the right thing but the push back from his staff and festival guests should tell him he’s 1000% wrong.
Shalimar
I worried about Dubya being a foreign autocrat’s stooge. Have we forgotten the Saudi kisses in the Rose Garden? I also remember Condi floating the idea in late 2003 that the 2004 elections might have to be cancelled if we got attacked again. The crudeness and complete lack of anything resembling class is new (though it isn’t just Trump; McConnell shares it), as is the degree to which the Russians own Trump, but almost all of the evil shit he does has echoes back to Dubya and Cheney.
Ruckus
@hilts:
Is that like peak assholery?
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
I listen to the New Yorker Radio Hour most weeks and am surprised he would have invited Bannon. He’s exhibited nothing but disdain for the man.
eemom
Once again, PT Barnum is giggling his ass off in the grave.
I can’t believe my eyes. I honest cannot BELIEVE that someone as smart as you believes this.
hilts
@Ruckus:
Yes.
Gelfling 545
I don’t believe you have to be somebody’s biggest fan to acknowledge when they speak the truth to lunacy as Megan McCain did. I don’t think remarking that an awww how cute moment passed between W and Michelle O offers him blanket forgiveness for the wrongs of his administration.
Some day we are going to have to work with, compromise with some of these people or nothing will ever get accomplished again. Sitting there all frowny faced when a moment, especially a rare moment, of human decency occurs will not help anybody. Decency needs to be encouraged.
Gelfling 545
@Baud: Oh, there are so many reasons to hate Trump. His policies are but one of them.
Gelfling 545
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: They pay the same whether they wear them or burn them which is good news for him.
hilts
@Cheryl Rofer: @Ruckus:
Regardless of what Remnick’s motivation was, I think it would have been horrible and indefensible to give Bannon another platform in which to spew his poison. In a previous thread, I posted a link to a Media Matters post listing Bannon’s interviews over the past 6 months.in print and on cable. Earlier this summer, he sat for long interviews with Fareed Zakaria and Ari Melber. Even if David Remnick were the greatest interviewer in human history, there’s absolutely nothing to be gained by another interview with Bannon. He’s a racist and there’s nothing more we need to know about him.
Another Scott
@Ruckus: +1
P.Z. Myers used to debate anti-evolutionists. He was good at it and very entertaining. He finally gave up on it, at least partly because of the Gish Gallop and because the groups on the other side would distort what he said and try to benefit from his celebrity and increase the spread of their “ideas”.
It’s not worth it.
Remnick made a mistake in inviting Bannon, and it’s good he backed down. Though he had a mealy-mouthed (IMHO) pharasing of the arguments:
(Emphasis added.)
Why did he feel the need to add “unfiltered”? It doesn’t matter how much Remnick thought he could push-back against Bannon in real time so that there was a “filter”. He knows, or should know, how modern media works – especially for those of a conspiratorial bent like Bannon (and Trump). Bannon would use the mere fact of being on the stage to his benefit. “All publicity is good publicity.” Trump picked his “Art of the Deal” author because of the way the guy made him into a big shot in NY real estate in a New York magazine even if the tone was to paint Trump as an idiot slumlord.
Remnick really should understand this stuff. It’s not hard.
Cheers,
Scott.
Sam
I don’t think ginkgo of elected officials that support Trump as spineless, I think of them as Trump supporters. We give too much credit when we call them spineless.
Ruckus
@hilts:
@Another Scott:
Agreed with both of you.
It was stupid and egotistical of Remnick to think he could control the situation. That the pushback was so strong and so responsive says a lot for the people that changed his mind, people get that you can’t argue with racists/racism. Logic/truth is not a friend or even companion to racism. Racism is not a truthful or logical argument so one can not make a truthful or logical response that will work on the people to whom it needs to.
eemom
@Gelfling 545:
Yeah, sure. The thing is, though, that none of the republican behavior in connection with McCain’s death has anything to do with “human decency” to the extent that term means anything other than regretting the death of one of their own. As we’ve seen time and again, from McCain himself and from the likes of Flake, Collins, etc., their “decency” is nothing more than convenient words, which they will never, EVER, back up with action against the interests of their billionaire whoremasters.
So what, exactly, do they offer for us to “work with”?
Ben Cisco
“
UltronTrump has an enemy. That’s not the same thing.”/Nick Fury
Corner Stone
@Gelfling 545:
Based on what? They can die or leave the political scene. We don’t have to do a damn thing with them.
YetAnotherJay formerly (Jay S)
@Cheryl Rofer: It’s like Remnik thinks he wouldn’t get trampled in the Gish Gallop Bannon would spew.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
Thanks!
We should meet at Schannigan’s when I come to Atlanta. I hear they have great onion rings.
Note: This is in line with my bucket-list dream of opening a bar called “Malarkey’s: A Fake Irish Pub.” It would be gold, I tell ya, pure gold!
Steeplejack
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Inorite.
Steeplejack
@catclub:
And yet I’ve never learned the lesson that, if you really like them after you’ve had them for a little while, go back now and get another pair or two for the future.
Steeplejack
@Cheryl Rofer:
And, loathsome though he is, Bannon is a pretty savvy interviewee.
Steeplejack
@Another Scott:
Thanks for the link. I was too lazy to look it up.
Steeplejack
Wow, six comments in a row. All that’s needed to definitively kill this thread is for J R in WV to come in five hours from now with some authentic frontier gibberish.
Elizabelle
The Bannon invite blew up in The New Yorker’s face? Ha ha. WTF was David Remnick thinking?
WarMunchkin
I guess at the end of the day, I don’t see these as separate dragons. I remember too well how Max Cleland and John Kerry were treated by the folks who are Nevertrumpers lionized by liberals for wrinkling their noses about how John McCain was treated by Trump.
The currents of history that started during the Bush administration and the not so subtle character assassination of the Dixie Chicks and the passing of the Patriot Act just gained in strength, birthing Sarah Palin and Donald Trump. The erosion of my rights, as a brown person, who was regularly stopped going about my day and who had friends and family whose assets were seized baselessly, started well before Trump. The assault on national security personnel during the Valerie Plame scandal started before Trump. He’s monkey see monkey do at this point. Every nee Republican comes with a new trick, but they are fundamentally the same.
And body count does matter. As we have had to repeatedly argue with our elites about, feelings aren’t as important as consequences.
Trump might be the head of the snake right now, if that snake were a constantly regenerating hydra. Forget just cutting off their head and also start burning the body to a crisp. And especially don’t accidentally rehabilitate Republicans like the McCains, Bill Kristol, David Frum, Ana Navarro, et al who are not allies, who were never allies and who will stab you in the back the second the Democrats get to smell even a small waft of power. As you’re no doubt tired of hearing by now, John McCain voted with Trump 86% of the time. How’s that for alliance.
There was a time where Bush was not normal, either.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne:
Skorts?
BruceFromOhio
I think that was Rove’s doing.
Those took a whole Klown Kar Kavalkade to pull off, with Cheney driving. Neo-cons eating the seed corn while setting the fires in which we currently roast.
Feh. Two bit ratfuck soulless criminals, ever last Gaia-damned one of them. Maybe the Bush Regimes look clean in comparison to contemporary fuckery, but it by no means connotes any form of justification for what these bastards did. May their tortured souls rot in the lowest depths of the filthiest hell.
BruceFromOhio
@WarMunchkin: Much better said, thank you.
sigyn
@Mnemosyne: Hey, hey,hey…let’s slow our roll here.
I can’t, off the top of my head, remember all of the reasons that Nike was just under Nestle on my list of “never give money to these monsters”, but they’re up there because REASONS.
One good act does not negate all of those reasons; let’s not do infomercials for them, ‘kay?