Saturday Morning Open Thread: Just The Facts, Sir…

152 replies
  1. 1
    NotMax says:

    Joe Friday weeps.


  2. 2
    Baud says:

    It’s been noted before, but it’s still impressive how many of the big name law firms and lawyers, even very conservative ones, have stayed away from representing Trump. Probably the best thing the profession has done in a while.

  3. 3
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Shorter: You can’t fix stupid.

  4. 4
    NotMax says:


    Dewey, Cheatham and Stoppedclock.


  5. 5
    Platonailedit says:

    Fuck courtier maggie’s hot takes.

  6. 6
    JPL says:

    Good morning! It’s going to be a good day to do some yard work.

  7. 7
    A Ghost To Most says:

    I believe you can fix stupid. What you can’t fix is wilful ignorance.

  8. 8

    In other fun news I read before hitting this site, apparently Alex Jones of Info Wars Infamy was doing an interview, and showing something on his cell phone, and lo, a tab seen in the browser was a porn site, I think of a transgender porn star in Australia. When this was brought to his attention, he claimed that porn sites pop up on cell phones all the time spontaneously, this was a known problem. Of course he is famous for attacking transgender people and drag queens.

    Oh, and in related news, I read that some social scientist had given up on an effort to do a study of how harmful porn viewing was for men, the reason being, they could not find any men who had not or did not view porn to create a control group.

    Oh, and a couple stayed with us to visit past two nights, almost life long friends from Alabama, on the way to visit their son at grad school in Madison, WI. So of course the wife helped me pick fresh okra, and I made breaded southern style okra for them. It just seemed the right thing to do.

  9. 9
    randy khan says:


    It’s been noted before, but it’s still impressive how many of the big name law firms and lawyers, even very conservative ones, have stayed away from representing Trump. Probably the best thing the profession has done in a while.

    Every good lawyer can sniff out a bad client miles away.

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @A Ghost To Most: No, you can’t, it is inseparable from willful ignorance. One feeds the other.

  11. 11
    JPL says:

    The movie First Man about Neil Armstrong did not show Armstrong placing the American flag. This is the latest slight since someone took a knee. I’m sure the asshole will have his followers boycott the movie, and Rubio already tweeted out his dismay. Armstrong’s sons released a statement saying the film is certainly not anti-American at all.
    The movie was filmed fairly close to where I live, and I had planned to go by, but only did after the house that was built was burned down. The period piece automobiles and trailers were kept in the parking lot of a local church. While passing by the church one day, I did make an old statement. I saw an ambulance and said to my son that I hope everyone is okay, thinking about Gosling of course. My son looked at me dismayed and said you know they haven’t used ambulances like that for awhile now mom. whoops!

  12. 12
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: Today we go to a nephews house warming where I will get to spend some time with my beloved older brother and his family.
    Tomorrow we are meeting my wife’s daughter at a BBQ joint some miles away to celebrate our son-in-law’s bday.
    Monday, we are spending the day at my son’s place in Benton Park for the Benton Park Classic bike race which runs by his house, and BBQ.

    The whole damned wkend was blown before it even began.

  13. 13
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: That sounds exhausting, but fun!

  14. 14
    MattF says:

    I just wonder what Trump will actually do if there’s a big blue wave. Televise an Address To The Amperican People, and then shit on the desk? I mean, it’s a real question.

  15. 15
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Some people are too thick to know better. Some people are pretty intelligent, but choose ignorance, for whatever reason. I try to make the distinction. It’s probably just semantics.

  16. 16
    Quinerly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I, too, will be at the Benton Park Classic. 💚Our mutual friend will be tending bar at the Venice. The races are always fun. Have a great weekend.

  17. 17
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    In New Hampshire:

    “We’re not used to black people having power.”

    I’m not really surprised considering how lily white most of New Hampshire is, I just expected it to come from some faithful public servant in Potosi or Eminence first.

  18. 18
    Amir Khalid says:

    You’ll see the tweets of a man who knows Mueller will be at his door in the morning.

  19. 19
    TS (the original) says:

    @MattF: He will tweet on one or more of the following
    Russian interference, gerrymandering against the GOP, voter fraud, fake news

  20. 20
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Some people are too thick to know better.

    I do not call people of that bent stupid and am more sympathetic to them than anything else.

  21. 21
    Platonailedit says:

    Freaky friday?

    Myanmar officials investigating a “ghost ship” found mysteriously drifting near the Yangon region this week have found the answer to its fate.

    The large, empty and rusty container vessel, Sam Ratulangi PB 1600, had been discovered by fishermen off Myanmar’s commercial capital.

    The navy now say the freighter was being towed by a tugboat headed to a ship-breaking factory in Bangladesh.

    However, the crew abandoned the ship after being caught up in bad weather.

    Authorities and navy personnel had boarded the Sam Ratulangi PB 1600 on Thursday to search for clues after it ran aground on a beach.

    Police and observers were baffled at how such a large ship, with no sailors or goods on board, had ended up in Myanmar.

  22. 22
    arrieve says:

    @Baud: I worked for a big name law firm for many years. They only took on clients whom they expected to pay their (considerable) bills. Trump would automatically be disqualified for that alone.

  23. 23
    Platonailedit says:

    Bad enough that the President’s lawyer, who purports to speak for the Administration, urged Romania to undermine its own anti-corruption efforts — repudiating the position of our own State Department’s stance. Worse still that he took money for it.

    Swamp overflowing again.— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) August 31, 2018

    The sleaze is oozing out of every fucking hole.

  24. 24
    Immanentize says:

    One is supposed to do nothing but eat BarBQ all weekend. Good on you!

  25. 25
    Immanentize says:

    Until the site gets sticky commenting credentials again, I may just go by “Imma” to save myself from my bad typing….

  26. 26
    JGabriel says:

    Dave Weigel via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    New @washingtonpost poll: Trump heads into Labor Day with a 60 percent disapproval rating, and 49 percent of voters favoring impeachment.

    Donald J. Trump aka Spanky McTraitorface:

    Our border security has gotten so bad that 60% of the people in our country are here illegally! 60%! Very bad. Very! Bad!

  27. 27
    Schlemazel says:

    How is your son doing? You have not mentioned in a while. Hope he is still getting better every week

  28. 28
    Lapassionara says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s the BBQ part of this that interests me. Where is the god BBQ in and around St Louis?

  29. 29
    Lapassionara says:

    “Good,” not “god.”

  30. 30
    Schlemazel says:

    I expect he will claim the election was rigged, that millions of illegals voted, that Russia and China hacked the vote and the real Americans have to prepare for violence.

    I wish I were kidding

  31. 31
    JAFD says:

    Good morning from New Jersey. Rainstorm last night, blew away heatwave for the weekend. Happy Labor Day to all, and a fruitful New Year to our students and teachers.
    As This Old Codger has said, first, Nixon was just as ill-intentioned as our current *President, and _smart and competent_ as well. Our country survived him.
    Second, Trump has done damage out of stupidity. A lot of political energy will be wasted, after 2020, simply repairing broken stuf at home and abroad.
    Three, the precedents set with the Johnson, Nixon and Clinton impeachments make it likely that any final Senate vote that ousts a president will be not 68/32 but 95/5, that the standard for ‘high crimes and misdemeanors’ is close to ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. Methinks that, unless such is likely, there is enough malfeasance for the House to investigate without mentioning the ‘I word’
    Sending sympathy to those losing friends human and animal, and healing energies to those recovering.

  32. 32
    Ken says:

    Speaking of cornered, I had to share this from today’s

    It’s the largest human-made hole ever dug, outside of Elon Musk’s Twitter account.

  33. 33
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I have a triathlon of eating this wkend.

  34. 34
    Amir Khalid says:

    English Premier League: Liverpool FC lead home team Leicester City 0-2 at half-time with a commanding performance all over the pitch. Goals from Sadio Mane and Bobby Firmino. It’s been a good weekend so far …

  35. 35
    HinTN says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: We’re traveling to the metropolis of Huntsville to visit the local roaster of coffee beans to get the monthly supply. Also Costco for all things Costco. There is a dynamite BBQ joint on the way there, so there’s that.

  36. 36
    Amir Khalid says:

    That sounds even more disconnected from reality than usual.

  37. 37
    Ken says:


    “Good,” not “god.”

    I liked it better the first time. It’s odd,
    I grew up in St. Louis but couldn’t point you to a BBQ place because we always made it at home. Two things, the meat is usually pork steak, and the sauce is tomato-based and sugary.

  38. 38
    Schlemazel says:

    Does your browser not do autofill? I have chrome on chrome & all I have to do is hit S and it offers me Schlemazel, then tab & the first letter of my email address & it offers me that. It is a very minor inconvenience, typing all out would be a pain as I am a hunt-n-peaker typist

  39. 39
  40. 40
    Lapassionara says:

    @Ken: ewwww.

  41. 41
    Ken says:

    @Amir Khalid: I think JGabriel made up the Trump quote, although because of Poe’s law it’s hard to tell. (We need a corollary to Poe’s law that includes the effects of narcissistic dementia.)

  42. 42
    Ken says:

    @Lapassionara: If you mean the sauce, I agree. I grew out of it once I moved away and had the drier kinds of BBQ. But don’t diss the pork steak.

  43. 43
    Percysowner says:


    It’s been noted before, but it’s still impressive how many of the big name law firms and lawyers, even very conservative ones, have stayed away from representing Trump. Probably the best thing the profession has done in a while.

    Yes it is good. We have to acknowledge that it’s also a function of the fact that lawyers want a client who will actually listen to them and follow their advice. It’s also a function of the fact that, like everyone who works, they want to get PAID for their efforts, not shafted after they are done. It’s not all ethics here.

  44. 44
    Immanentize says:

    OK morning crew, I have a WWII mystery I can’t figure out on my own. I am asking for your advice.
    The short version is: My Great Uncle was captured at the Battle of the Argonne Forest (aka the Battle of the Bulge) and spent the rest of the war in German captivity. He (and his fellow prisoners) were treated very poorly and he came home a wreck. The story always had an odd twist, as my cousins were told that Steve (the Uncle) was ‘in a concentration camp.’. That sounded like just a description of how bad conditions were in his POW camp — he was sent to Stalag 9b west of Frankfurt. It was notorious, led by a Nazi true believer, but no concentration camp.

    But then I was reading some stuff about it on-line and it ends up 250 Americans were sent to a concentration camp from Stalag 9 to act as slave labor digging tunnels. The commander at 9b asked for all the Jews, but many of the Americans had destroyed their dog tags which had an H (Hebrew) on the ones who were Jewish…. So, some number of Jews were identified, but the Germans wanted 250 so they just chose guys who looked Jewish or had Jewish sounding names. His might qualify. And off they went to the concentration camp, Borda.

    No one in the family is alive to know what happened. Also, Steve died young as a serious drinker (no surprise there). Further, the Army told these guys they could never ever tell anyone what happened to them and most who lived did not. The Army seems to have no records. Crazy but true….

    So, my search foo is generally good, but I cannot find just a simple list of who was sent from Stalg 9 to Borda. Any ideas? I am relying on the hive mind.

  45. 45
    debbie says:

    I was going to go to Micro Center to pick up a Chromebook, but then I remembered that meant I’d have to deal with stupid OSU football traffic. Guess I’ll wait until tomorrow.

  46. 46
    Nelle says:

    @Ken: I too like God Bbq. Of course, I live near Kansas City.

  47. 47
    Immanentize says:

    Thanks, S. My problem is my phone, which I generally use in the mornings. Chrome autofil is working great on the desktop(s) I use during the day and evening. But every time I go to a different page, I lose my credentials.

    I am not complaining!! I am just grateful to be able to mutter to the blog rather than into thin air.

  48. 48
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am sure you are in shape for it. Instead of Ironman — Brisketman?

  49. 49
    debbie says:

    This article leads me to this book. Maybe there’s a list in it?

  50. 50
    HinTN says:

    @Immanentize: On my android, after I type the first two letters my nym pops up as suggested input. YMMV

  51. 51
    Amir Khalid says:

    Liverpool keeper Alisson does a Karius and winds up conceding a goal — the first given away by Liverpool this season. 1-2. Sheesh.

  52. 52
    Elizabelle says:

    @Immanentize: That’s fascinating, and sounds plausible. Giving some thought on how to research it further.

    Good morning, jackals. Sparkling day here in central VA. Andy Borowitz was good this morning.

    Trump Fears Next Election Will be Decided by Americans

    An aide said the President is panicking over a doomsday scenario in which Americans, sidelined during the 2016 election, play a dominant role in influencing the 2020 contest.

  53. 53
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: Thanks. I saw the article, but missed the book citation.

  54. 54
    Schlemazel says:

    The Nazis were meticulous record keepers and probably have the names recorded. There are two problems though. I have no idea who or how you would ask to review whatever documentation might still exist & if the Army was intent on keeping this a secret (I would love to know why) they might have made the records disappear. Good luck in your search.

    As a kid one of my neighbors was a guy captured on Corregidor. I always thought he looked to be about 100 because of the way he walked and how worn his face was. He would have been in his 40s or 50s. I was carrying my saxophone case & he asked me about it and told me how his coronet saved his life while a POW. I was old enough to know what the death march entailed. It occured to me that he was half the age I thought he was & why he looked so bad. I don’t kow how you ever recover from such a thing

  55. 55
    Immanentize says:

    @HinTN: I have a one plus Android. Not happening. I will check the settings.

    PS. I think part of the problem is with the word itself. My Google spell checker will not learn Immanentize. It keeps offering a word without the second n….

  56. 56
    Elizabelle says:

    @ Immanetize:

    Debbie’s on it!

    And Roger Cohen has a column with the NY Times. He is easy to contact, and would probably be happy to help Immanetize research further; give some leads.

    Roger Cohen joined The New York Times in 1990. He was a foreign correspondent for more than a decade before becoming acting foreign editor on Sept. 11, 2001, and foreign editor six months later.

    Since 2004, he has written a column for The International New York Times, formerly known as The International Herald Tribune. In 2009 he was named a columnist of The New York Times. His columns appear every Wednesday and Saturday.

    Mr. Cohen has written “Hearts Grown Brutal: Sagas of Sarajevo,” an account of the wars of Yugoslavia’s destruction, and “Soldiers and Slaves: American POWs Trapped by the Nazis’ Final Gamble.” He has also co-written a biography of Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, “In the Eye of the Storm.” His family memoir, “The Girl From Human Street: Ghosts of Memory in a Jewish Family,” was published in January 2015. Raised in South Africa and England, he is a naturalized American.

  57. 57
    different-church-lady says:

    I wonder if we’ll ever come to terms with the fact that 64 million people voted for a man everybody knew had a high probability of being a criminal.

  58. 58
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Where is the god BBQ in and around St Louis?

    For the God BBQ you have to come to Washington Co, about 11 miles outside of Sullivan, just past Indian Creek….

    @Lapassionara: Oh, merely good BBQ? I don’t really know about in STL anymore. All the places I used to go to way back when are closed. A lot of people are high on Sugarfire. There is a lot of hype around them and they have expanded rather quickly so I am not so trusting. I’ve only eaten at the Washington location once and found my sandwich to be very tasty and that is the one I will return to tomorrow. If you go to one, look for my friend Red’s mosaic art. She has done one for each of their locations.

    Out here, the place I go to is Missouri Hick BBQ, a couple miles east of Cuba on the old Rte 66. They are pretty good, with 4.5 and 5 star ratings on the various yelps on the internet and the decor is…. Interesting, yeah that’s the word. Some of my Arkie buddies insist on eating there every time they find themselves in this neck of the woods,

  59. 59
    debbie says:


    Since it involves Jewish soldiers, I’d bet there’s something somewhere in the archives of the Shoah Project. There’s lots of stuff online to access. Like this.

  60. 60
  61. 61
    debbie says:

    Could he be included in the Righteous Database?

  62. 62
    different-church-lady says:

    @Schlemazel: I turned off autofill years ago when I discovered it would autofill things like my social security number and sometimes credit card numbers. I don’t remember which combination of sites and software did that, and maybe they’ve fixed it since, but I haven’t change my policy.

    In the meantime, it appears the little checkbox doesn’t work for me either.

  63. 63
    debbie says:


    I don’t know how I’ll ever even forgive my family members, let alone all the rest of the assholes.

  64. 64
    Lapassionara says:

    @Ken: I meant the sauce, but I don’t understand how anyone can smoke a pork steak. And to me, BBQ is smoked meat.

  65. 65
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  66. 66
    different-church-lady says:

    @debbie: A well-placed and quiet admonition has certainly been earned by even loved-ones. At some point the adults are going to have to say, “You understand what you did wrong, don’t you?”

  67. 67
    bemused says:

    Someone on msnbc was talking about McCain’s concession speech after he lost to Obama and how he stressed bipartisanship and working with Obama. That brought back the memory of how Sarah Palin was determined to give her own concession speech and supposedly wasn’t taking no for an answer right up to just before McCain took the stage. What a hellish sounding campaign with Palin on the ticket according to Nicolle Wallace, Steve Schmidt and others.

  68. 68
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  69. 69
    Elizabelle says:

    @rikyrah: I am still all Aretha after yesterday’s marvelous sendoff. And now I have to listen to the 95% of her music that I have not yet heard. What a pleasing prospect.

  70. 70
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I am sure there is somebody in Germany who has the answers for you. The Nazis were notoriously obsessive record keepers.

  71. 71
    Lapassionara says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thank you! Missouri Hick sounds very promising. And decor should be “interesting,” in an authentic way. To me, the gold standard for BBQ is a long-gone joint on 3rd St. in Memphis called Hattie Culpepper’s. It got “urban removed” in the late 60’s, alas.

  72. 72
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I make a killer brisket.

  73. 73
    Immanentize says:

    I looked and just being sent did not make one righteous. I’ve been to Yad Vashem. Damn. Whoever designed the spaces was a genius at constructing emotions. Horror, sadness, peace. All in buildings and grounds.

  74. 74
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Then I will visit you one day. Probably not the response you most prefer, but a statement like that provokes action.

  75. 75
    westyny says:

    @different-church-lady: the chalk box works for me for about a half hour if I stay on the page. Which constantly reloads on my iPhone, because of a “problem.” Ads? This has been happening for the last couple of weeks.

  76. 76
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: That is the group I am talking about. That was a moving tale — and the drawings, given the circumstances, are heartbreaking.

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Lapassionara: You do it very slowly, at a temp of 250-275.

  78. 78
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I know, but I think the US has worked hard to bury some of those records. But as you say, in Germany perhaps….

  79. 79
    debbie says:


    Yes. You’d almost think they were members of ICE.

    I was thinking maybe somewhere in those lists was a link to all of the names. Or you could work from the opposite direction via When I was checking out my ancestors, I found passenger lists, etc. They were very thorough.

  80. 80
    Ken says:

    @Lapassionara: One way is to pre-cook the steaks in the oven, then put them on the grill for sauce and smoke.

    I’ll second Mo-Hick, I’ve been there when visiting family and it’s quite good.

  81. 81
    TS (the original) says:

    @different-church-lady: It appears a majority are also going to vote for Duncan Hunter

    Indicted U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, a California Republican who is accused of using hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign funds for personal expenses, leads his Democratic opponent, Ammar Campa-Najjar, by 8 points in a poll of California’s 50th District. SurveyUSA conducted the poll after news of the indictment broke. (The FiveThirtyEight House forecast has Hunter as a 9 in 10 favorite.)

    Rep Duncan Hunter Leading

  82. 82
    debbie says:


    They know what they’ll get from me (I got a real big mouth), which is why they’ll flee whenever they see me coming.

  83. 83
    debbie says:


    All of it is heartbreaking, even the most peripheral stories. I’ve searched friends’ families long after their parents had died, but I can’t imagine searching someone I had actually known.

  84. 84
    bemused says:


    Same here. This still has never come up in conversation with more close republican family or friends, not full throttle trumpbots, that we have detected. The fact that they have never mentioned trumpco or GOP makes me think most of them probably voted for him and still either kind of like him or are embarrassed by him and the party but don’t want to admit they were punked. So far it’s been better to have silence from them than to hear them try to justify trumpism. Then all bets would be off.

  85. 85
    TS (the original) says:


    McCain’s concession speech after he lost to Obama and how he stressed bipartisanship and working with Obama

    He talked about it – but I don’t remember that he ever did it.

  86. 86
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: Glad to have you. My pork shoulder is pretty goo too and my baby back ribs are to die for.

  87. 87
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: So one of the big problems with the Army, which I ran into a number of times when investigating death cases, was that in 1973, pre-digital, almost all of the Army service records burned up in a huge fire in –Missouri (of course). Army record research is made almost impossible because of this.

    Talk about a great X-Files backstory….

  88. 88
    HinTN says:

    @Schlemazel: Chrome autofill on android has the email waiting when I tap the box. As per earlier, it takes two letters to get the nym right.

  89. 89
    Platonailedit says:

    @TS (the original):

    Yup, st mccain voted with rethugs over 90% of the time. All this bipartisanship hagiography is utter bs.

  90. 90
    Wyatt Derp says:


    @Schlemazel: I turned off autofill years ago when I discovered it would autofill things like my social security number and sometimes credit card numbers. I don’t remember which combination of sites and software did that, and maybe they’ve fixed it since, but I haven’t change my policy.

    In the meantime, it appears the little checkbox doesn’t work for me either.

    Weird. When I use autofill I get hundreds of pages of trans porn. Anyone else have this problem?

  91. 91
    Elizabelle says:

    Have the C-Span feed on, from National Cathedral. Lindsey Graham is cozying up to Ivanka and Jared, who both tower over him.

    He needs a new BFF. Wonder if that sucker has been promised Attorney General.

  92. 92
    bemused says:

    @TS (the original):

    Yeah, me neither. I guess sitting/talking with the “other” side counts as bipartisanship for McCain era R’s but actually give and take on bills was a different story.

  93. 93
  94. 94
    Procopius says:

    I don’t see why Mueller would be in any rush to release a report before the election. He screwed up with his indictment back in January. Or, actually, the prosecutors appointed by the Justice Department. Who would that have been, Rosenstein? They were so sure none of the indicted Russians would show up for the arraignment, and therefore never go to trial, that they didn’t have their case ready for presentation when Concord Consulting actually hired lawyers to plead at the arraignment. I think he’s going to learn from that. Now the DoJ prosecutors (the last I heard) were pleading with the judge to shield them from discovery, telling the defendants what the evidence against them is. By the way, I am not a lawyer, so maybe I’m misunderstanding what is actually going on there, and if I am wrong please let me know. The media are not covering the case, so I haven’t heard anything more recent than the middle of July.

  95. 95
    Schlemazel says:

    OH! Great catch, that never occured to me. Probably a much higher chance of success.

  96. 96
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Just exactly so.

  97. 97
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Ken: Mom (1913-2005) lived in Pine Lawn with her grandparents and went to college at the U of MO–the 1st in her family to go to college.

  98. 98
    debbie says:


    I remember finding out about that when researching my father’s time in the service. Still, it’s amazing what you can find out from seemingly unrelated sources. I just cannot believe there isn’t something somewhere in an Israeli database that would provide the information you want.

  99. 99
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Platonailedit: That’s why he was a RINO.

  100. 100
    zhena gogolia says:


    Reposting rikyrah’s handy-dandy list, which I’m making my way through today and crying tender tears:

    Go to YouTube
    Put in the following names with Aretha Franklin
    Ron Isley
    Faith Hill
    Shirley Ceasar
    Gladys Knight
    Stevie Wonder
    Yolanda Adams
    The Clark Sisters
    Bishop TD Jakes
    Tyler Perry
    Cicely Tyson
    Rev. William Barber
    Judge Greg Mathis
    Isiah Thomas
    Jesse Jackson
    Rev.Al Sharpton
    Bill Clinton
    Marvin Sapp
    Smokey Robinson
    Aretha’s grandchildren

    I heard Jennifer Hudson was also great.

  101. 101
    Platonailedit says:


    Yup, turning on auto-fill in any browser is ripe for hackers. Have never done it.

  102. 102
    Immanentize says:

    Thank you all for the help. I have to go Uber my son around. I will check back on this thread later if anyone has further ideas. Mille grazie!!

  103. 103
    Elizabelle says:

    @debbie: You have some mad researching skillz. Good to know.

  104. 104
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I cook my brisket at that temperature on a bed of onions and with a 12oz of beer. The next day I remove the fat slice and heat it over the charcoal grill with some good quality or homemade bbq sauce.

  105. 105
    bemused says:


    My spouse calls it selling their souls. Can’t disagree but their idea of morals and ethics look quite different from most liberals.

  106. 106
    Schlemazel says:

    @Wyatt Derp:
    Just Alex Jones and you I guess

  107. 107
    HinTN says:


    a statement like that provokes action

    Agreed! We must all plan a road trip to pay homage to the smoker god of middle America. I’m thinking Thanksgiving…

  108. 108
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Next summer plan on visiting Germany with your son.
    @Elizabelle: She sure does.

  109. 109
    Amir Khalid says:

    Leicester City 1-2 Liverpool. It would have been our fourth clean sheet out of four matches if not for Alisson’s moment of madness.

  110. 110
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: I agree about Israeli sources. I may have to tap my friends there for help. Meanwhile, I ordered that book and another and I will let you know if there are lists….

  111. 111
    Domestic short hair tabby (fka vheidi) says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: you don’t know a blown weekend until you live near the West Indian American day parade ;-)

  112. 112
    Nelle says:

    @Schlemazel: One of the Honor Guard at my FIL’s memorial service survived the Bataan March. (FIL served in the South Pacific.)

  113. 113
    Elizabelle says:

    @zhena gogolia: You will love it. Just skip the poundcaking eulogy by that megachurch blowhard. Stevie Wonder “saged the room” (thanks, Steeplejack!), though.

    FTF NY Times had a good highlights article; don’t think it has many links, though. Memorable Moments From Aretha Franklin’s Funeral

    NY Times has a lot of content, including an essay by Michael Eric Dyson that I’d not seen, from August 16.

    The Church of Aretha Franklin
    How the Queen of Soul preached to us all.

    Thinking on how long that sendoff was. I wonder if some of the folks were not on stage because they were backstage getting a meal. Six hours is six hours.

  114. 114
    Steeplejack says:


    Anne Laurie set my e-mail address to you, but the address with your nym didn’t work. You need to send her a message with a working e-mail address.

  115. 115
    Another Scott says:

    @Immanentize: I can’t find anything about a “Borda” camp. Mis-spelling?

    I assume you’ve seen Lone Sentry – Photographs of Stalag IX-B in Bad Orb, Germany? It has a bunch of links that may help you get closer to finding the information you seek.

    HTH a little. Good luck!


  116. 116
    Schlemazel says:

    I have read accounts of the march and the camps. I can’t imagine I could live through anything close to that. Those men were exception in many ways.

  117. 117
    henqiguai says:

    @A Ghost To Most (#7):

    I believe you can fix stupid. What you can’t fix is wilful ignorance.

    No. Ignorance is educable, but stupidity is congenital.

  118. 118
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @HinTN: Not available that wkend, I will be spending it somewhere in the Irish Wilderness using my godlike powers to sustain famished backpackers on a trek between the rivers with our traditional Thanksgiving dinner: Spaghetti and meatballs with garlic bread and tossed salad.

  119. 119
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Another Scott: In the linked article it is outside of Berga:

    Shapiro sees the G.I.’s, 350 of them, selected by the Germans for extermination because they were Jews, or looked like Jews, or were deemed “troublemakers” or were just grabbed at random because the Nazis needed slave labor late in a lost war, and European Jews were already dead by the millions and those not yet slaughtered were too weak to work; he sees the Americans, in a place they could not comprehend, an ephemeral little hell for which they had no preparation or instruction, a Nazi concentration camp at Berga, in the east of Germany, too small to appear on most World War II maps; sees the bedraggled men, privates in their late teens or early 20’s, fighting over crumbs, chewing pieces of wood or charcoal to try to stanch diarrhea, eating snow, coughing blood from throats lacerated by rock shards in the mines where they labored, slipping away in the night without a word. People who die of hunger and thirst die in silence. Either you strangle that memory or it strangles you. The shame of survival is sometimes too much to bear.

  120. 120
    Nelle says:

    @Schlemazel: An excellent use of this in fiction is the magnificent book, Ceremony, by Leslie Marmon Silko. I rank it as one of then too novels of the last century.

  121. 121
    Schlemazel says:

    I may put tat on my reading list. Right now I am afraid I am not up to anything that might be depressing.


  122. 122
    m.j. says:

    Maggie Haberman:

    His aides say he is behaving as if he is cornered.

    Well, you should know. You’re one of them.

  123. 123
    Another Scott says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks.

    Maybe debbie already posted this – I haven’t checked all the links above.

    American POWs at Berga Concentration Camp:


    Fewer than 300 men survived the 50 days they had spent in Berga. Over the next two-and-a-half weeks, before the survivors were liberated, at least 36 more GIs died on a march to avoid the approaching Allied armies. The fatality rate in Berga, including the march, was the highest of any camp where American POWs were held—nearly 20 percent—and the 70-73 men who were killed represented approximately six percent of all Americans who perished as POWs during World War II.

    This was not the only case where American Jewish soldiers were segregated or otherwise mistreated, but it was the most dramatic. The U.S. Government never publicly acknowledged they were mistreated. In fact, one survivor was told he should go to a psychiatrist. Officials at the VA told him he had made up the whole story.

    Two of the Nazis responsible for the murder and mistreatment of American soldiers were tried. They were found guilty and sentenced to hang, despite the fact that none of the survivors testified at the trial . Later, the case was reviewed and the verdicts upheld. Nevertheless, five years after being tried, the Chief of the War Crimes Branch unilaterally decided the evidence was insufficient to sustain the charges and commuted the sentences to time served — about six years.

    No roster there, but it sounds like it exists somewhere (or did until the above-mentioned fire).


  124. 124
    debbie says:


    A bit disjointed, but thanks!

  125. 125
    Shakti says:


    Trump is a demanding resource sucking nightmare client who is known to lie to his lawyers, disregard their advice, and crucially, doesn’t pay on time or at all.

    Only a desperate idiot would take this guy on as a client. A big law firm doesn’t need the acclaim and probably doesn’t want the type of clients who’d be attracted by “we represented Donald Trump during money laundering palooza” and a small law firm would be driven mad and into bankruptcy by taking the guy on as a client.

    There is no upside.

  126. 126
    debbie says:


    Thanks. I’m more than willing to help further if you need it. These things really fascinate me, and I hate thinking that anything is lost or unfindable.

  127. 127
    Matt McIrvin says:


    As This Old Codger has said, first, Nixon was just as ill-intentioned as our current *President, and _smart and competent_ as well. Our country survived him.

    The American right is worse now than it was then. In aggregate, the people are probably less racist–but the taboo against open fascism induced by World War II has almost completely eroded away.

  128. 128
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Procopius: Mueller has to have James Comey on his mind, too. After what happened in 2016, no way does he pop up with anything that could be perceived or spun as an October Surprise.

  129. 129
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @bemused: With the Republicans I’ve seen online, their defense of Trump now is just “the economy’s doing great–look at your 401(k)” (sometimes with an added bit about how Obama “nearly bankrupted the country”).

  130. 130
    chopper says:


    60% of the people in our country are here illegally!

    that’s an…interesting fact.

  131. 131
    Steeplejack says:


    Joke. Not really said by Trump.

  132. 132
    debbie says:


    Sorry, one more thing before I stop. I know you know this, but be sure to go through all the notes and references at the end of the book. There will be all kinds of other places to check.

  133. 133
    sdhays says:


    Only a desperate idiot would take this guy on as a client.

    A desperate idiot or someone with their own agenda (and getting paid for it by someone else). At #23, @Platonailedit shared that Bucktooth Nosferatu is getting paid as a lobbyist to influence foreign governments (and contradicting official US policy) while he’s the Preznit’s lawyer. So it’s not that he’s not getting paid; he’s just not getting paid by Spankee. Kind of like Paul Manafort…

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  135. 135
    Kathleen says:

    @Immanentize: Either the American Heroes Channel or History Channel showed a program about this. May have been part of a series about “Secrets of WW Ii “. You might try googling History Channel or AHC channel to see if there is info on that program. Or Military Channel.

  136. 136
    laura says:

    @Schlemazel: my dad’s uncle Frank survived the Bataan death march and imprisonment on Corregidor. He suffered life long effects from the deprivations and would go ashen when recounting the atrocities he witnessed. And he lived in Oklahoma and was racist af. Mom and Dad went out of their way to shield us from the prejudices of some of our kin even though it meant cutting off those they loved who loved their hate.

  137. 137
    tobie says:

    @Elizabelle: Funny…that was my thought too. Lindsay Graham wants to be Attorney General. The shitweasel is willing to turn on the memory of his best buddy to get it.

  138. 138
    Shana says:

    @Immanentize: I have no help for you but just chime in to note that our local PBS station ran a show just yesterday called GI Jews about the jews who served in WWII. I believe it mentions this because Stallag 9 sounded very familiar.

  139. 139
    VOR says:

    @tobie: I saw an article yesterday (Slate?) which posited that Mattis may be gone at Defense and Graham was a likely replacement.

  140. 140
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @tobie: How very REPUBLICAN of him!

  141. 141
    Another Scott says:

    @VOR: Interesting. Of course, Donnie “hates southern accents” so that disqualifies him, doesn’t it??!

    Imagine Lindsey leaving the Senate, maybe Nikki being appointed his replacement. Who would go to the UN? Kanye??!

    What a bunch of clowns… Grr…

    Seriously, it seems clear that hardly anyone – except Pence, nobody is a better boot-licker for Donnie than Pence – can last more than a couple of years or so under Donnie. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there’s more turn-over, but who would get confirmed by the Senate – especially if the Blue Wave is big enough??


  142. 142
    Ruckus says:

    @A Ghost To Most:
    Stupid can’t be fixed, the subject is unable to learn.
    Ignorance can be fixed, the subject just doesn’t know or understand.
    Willful ignorance is just stupid with another title. It’s called Asshole.

  143. 143
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:


    Oh, and in related news, I read that some social scientist had given up on an effort to do a study of how harmful porn viewing was for men, the reason being, they could not find any men who had not or did not view porn to create a control group.

    Master and Johnson did a study in the 80s that 90% of the men masturbated regularly and the renaming 10% of the men are obvious lairs. “Porn bad” is a ludicrous argument driving by people who want to prove that other people doing stuff outside their comfort zone is evil – what do people think what was going on during the day when the typical human social group was four women and twelve men, eight of those guys took a vow of chastity?

  144. 144
    Origuy says:

    @Immanentize: The actual list may not be online, but there may be a historian with access to the primary sources. Try contacting the author of that book.

  145. 145
    WhatMyNym says:


    in 1973, pre-digital, almost all of the Army service records burned up in a huge fire

    I’m guessing that no one had done anything about putting the records on a microform (microfilm, etc…) as a main source. As they used it heavily at the end of the war for documents from the occupied countries.

  146. 146
    NotMax says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Claims were made they only went to ‘that cave’ for the articles.


  147. 147
    Ruckus says:

    Some recover. Most never do.
    Humans can be amazing. Or normal.
    In some cases it’s attitude, a good one can go a long way. But in most it’s just that the body and spirit are just worn down, damaged and broken. To see one or two this way is always sort of a shock. To see a large group will stay with you forever.
    Look around. Most of us are having a difficult time because our country is in turmoil because of it’s 1000% total lack of leadership and the obvious change from having a real and proper leader and knowing that we have to ride it out. We can help on the margins and in the trenches, but it will take time and as we run through that time it gets worse and worse. And there really is nothing one person alone can do, so you feel helpless. It isn’t, we know that, but the moment weighs more than the future possibilities.

  148. 148
    J R in WV says:


    Many years ago wife and I were in the general St Louis area for a wedding, actually held east of the Mississipi at a country-club, I guess in so Illinois. Then we drove through St Louis to visit an acquaintance in the ‘burbs west of towns where we spent most of the afternoon. We were headed for Houston afterwards, and had directions from friends condo to an Interstate, and when we got there, I turned off too soon onto a road beside the Interstate instead of onto the entrance ramp.

    A Blessing,

    There in the woods was a BBQ pit in an old Quonset type building, with big brick fireplaces built outside adjacent to the building, with the openings inside. We ate til we were stupid, hot sauce rather than sweet. Tender fall off the bone ribs, etc, etc.

    Then we drove south into Arkansas … no good food on the rural roads we took, actually ate at a Pizza Hut late that night. NO BEER, shocked that we would ask, told to drive 20 miles to the county line!!! Now when traveling in the south, I carry drinking alcohol with.

  149. 149
  150. 150
    The Pale Scot says:


    as that in 1973, pre-digital, almost all of the Army service records burned up in a huge fire

    A good way for the Soviets to embed agents, I’d bet

  151. 151
    frosty says:

    @Immanentize: We did a similar search for an uncle who flew C-47s and only said he @toeed gliders over Normandy” … and paratroops, Dragoon, Market-Garden and 4 other ops. The key eas learning the unit he was in. Then finding memoirs by others and an internet group of descendents. We even found pictures of him through them.

  152. 152
    evodevo says:

    @Immanentize: Interesting. My husband’s uncle had a similar experience…even down to the dog tag thing. His initials were JEW – his name was James Everett Ward – and he destroyed his when captured during the Battle of the Bulge. I don’t know where he was held, but he was never the same after he came home. Malnutrition and stress, I presume, since one of his tales was his work crew laughing at the Germans running from a bombing raid…they themselves were too weak from starvation to even take cover. I seem to remember something about tunnels, too. I’ll have to ask my husband for more details.

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