Here’s the live feed of Senator McCain’s funeral service in Arizona before his body is flown to Washington, DC to lie in state in the Capitol and a second funeral service on Saturday at the National Cathedral and his final, private funeral service and interment on Sunday at the Naval cemetery at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD.
I’ve got the live feed set to start with Vice President Biden’s eulogy, but feel free to go back or forward. Larry Fitzgerald’s eulogy, given just before VP Biden’s, was very, very nice.
Open thread!
Immanentize
I always suspected that guy was a vampire!
Adam L Silverman
@Immanentize: Thanks, good catch, fixed!
CarolDuhart2
Biden’s eulogy is one of the most heartfelt I’ve ever heard. Sounds like a true friend despite all of the political differences they had. They could see each other as people back then-people who could eat together, talk about their lives, challenge each other.
HRA
Sat what you will about John McCain, you have to applaud his power from the coffin to make the idiot go ape crazy on his phone today.
Immanentize
@HRA: It is one of the finest trollings from the grave I have ever seen (or read about!)
rikyrah
Even in Death, John McCain Is Petty AF
Stephen A. Crockett Jr.
Today 12:11pm
Immanentize
@Immanentize: @HRA:
I guess maybe Addie Bundren’s troll-from-the-grave in As I Lay Dying is equally vicious, on mark, and complete.
Emma
@HRA: It is quite enjoyable, really. I think I disagreed with McCain over 95% or so of EVERYTHING but golly, one has to admire the way he drove –still drives people nuts. And his grudge collection was state of the art.
Mary G
My cats HATE THE BAGPIPES and want them off NAOW.
Fair Economist
@rikyrah:
The whinery is open for business!
Immanentize
@rikyrah: I am not sure that is pettiness, rather McCain might have just been trying to insure the event is not a crass self-promoting shit show altogether.
Ian G.
Considering how much the MAGAts hate black NFL players these days, having one speak when Shitgibbon wasn’t invited is a nice subtle “fuck you” to Trump and his disciples.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@rikyrah: I gotta lotta beefs with McCain, as I mini-ranted in the thread below. This is most emphatically not one of them.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize:
It makes Carrie look like a piker.
Corner Stone
@Immanentize:
McCain methodically planned out seven days of spectacle all dedicated to himself and his ego. This is an epic troll and of course he is petty AF.
Paul W.
Trump just announced he is canceling a planned pay increase for federal workers, I have no doubt he is trying to squash all McCain eulogy stories out of the news.
Corner Stone
@Paul W.: Not that any of it has to make sense, because Trump, but how does this square with the repeated protestations at how our economy is booming gangbuster orgy-time like never before?
Fair Economist
@Corner Stone: Treating Trump and Putin as he has is not petty, because they are very serious threats to America and decent people everywhere. Excluding Palin is arguably petty given that she’s just a mid-grade grifter these days but maybe he wanted to make sure she stayed that and that might not be petty.
Mary G
@Immanentize: You are kinder than I am. To me, it’s a massive grudge fest. Also major self-promoting. And I like it, because I know Twitler is stewing in his own juices because “it’s not fair to MEEEEEEEEEE!”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good point. I’m trying to remember if they dragged even Reagan’s out this long. I doubt it was longer.
She campaigned, repeatedly, with the man who mocked his captivity. I’d say she burned that bridge.
schrodingers_cat
@Corner Stone: We have already have had 5 or more threads over here. I don’t have cable but I am sure that tire swingers are outdoing themselves eulogizing him.
shelley
@rikyrah: Can you blame him?
jl
@Fair Economist: The Palin we’ve seen since her VP nomination is not quite the politician she was when McCain nominated her. At the time of her nomination, her cred was a moderate GOPer of Alaska who was very popular due to a progressive tax cut.
She was still a lousy and irresponsible choice. Proper vetting would have revealed serious problems with a VP nomination. McCain is responsible for that decision. But the difference between what she presented herself to be, and what she turned out to be, is egregious and dishonest enough to merit McCain’s decision, think.
jl
@jl: Oh Lord, what is wrong with me, now that edit is gone. I am losing it. I meant to type ‘progressive tax INCREASE on AK oil industry”.
schrodingers_cat
To me he will always remain the man who chose Palin as VP. His death doesn’t change that.
Nelle
My husband, who wanted to be a Navy pilot, was instead, at the Academy, chosen as a Rickover boy and was thrust into the nuclear submarine world. He groused about how McCain, at the bottom of his class, got to fly the planes. He held McCain responsible for the destruction of five planes, saying he could be considered an ace for the enemy. McCain was hotdogging and going beyond orders when he was shot down. (My husband did 3 years in the subs, followed by 3 years of Vietnam…yay for stop loss orders.)
However, I don’t think it was petty to have a funeral that kept out supreme spotlight huggers. His speakers were named Espinosa and Garcia. And an African American. And a Navajo musician. That was a deliberate homage to the diversity of Arizona and a big FU to the orange stain in the WH.
When you watch, know all those in suits and uniforms are hot. My daughter is a freelancer, there, with the FTFNYT. She ended up in the hospital last night on IVs after a strong heat reaction. But back at funeral today. She lives in Phoenix…knows how to deal with heat. Don’t know what happened.
jl
For the Annals of Ridiculous Arguments (which is growing rapidly these days)
The American Conservative
@amconmag
There are people with far, far more offensive racial views than Donald Trump or Tucker Carlson. If Trump and Tucker are “racists,” then what do you call those other people?
https://twitter.com/amconmag/status/1035230671256444928
(found via Josh Marshall’s twitter)
I’ll make a wild guess that ‘racists’ is the right answer.
The Moar You Know
@rikyrah: Don’t agree at all. My wife and I, when doing our trust a couple of years ago (we just hit the big 5-0) outlined a basic plan for our funerals and disposition of remains, and, because we were both raised by malignant narcissists, HAD to include specific instructions as to who was absolutely not allowed to come. And that’s to be backed up by hired, armed security guards, because the nutjobs (both of our mothers if you must know) are not above carrying weapons and demanding that the event be all about them even if someone has to get shot.
Trump would have done the same fucking thing. This is a day for McCain. Trump can gibber from outside if he must – and he must – but he can’t be allowed to be there. And I totally get that. Same with that lunatic attention whore Palin.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ian G.:
This works too!
Corner Stone
@schrodingers_cat: It’s awful. The sad realization is that even next week will not be far enough away from the events to get cable news to stop talking about him at the top and bottom of every hour. And dog forbid Trump do something nasty to extend the fainting couch sessions for a few more days after that. I’ve just fucking had it with John McCain.
Corner Stone
@The Moar You Know:
My God, I wish it was “a” day for McCain.
CarolDuhart2
Given what happens when Trump is around, I can’t blame McCain for not wanting him there. Trump at his best acts like he was raised in a barn-figeting, ignoring people, saying rude things, coming in late. Not to mention possible protests with Trump’s presence. Palin might have behaved, but she might have brought one of her trashing, illmannered kids that don’t know to act. It’s worth noticing that nobody has raised objections to Trump not being there.
Corner Stone
@CarolDuhart2: AFAIK, Trump’s deplorable base hates John McCain.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
Hmmm, where should I start…
sukabi
@rikyrah: Petty? Probably, but as he was able to plan his own funeral, and had good reason to not include certain embarrassments it’s his right.
When Palin & Drumpf shed their skins they can invite or not whomever they choose.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Is that you, Lord? BillingGlendale has some exsplaining to do.
zhena gogolia
@Corner Stone:
Since I never watch TV except TCM and PBS mysteries and Poldark, I’m LOVING hearing that they keep going on about him. It must be driving Twitler so crazy! Love it!
schrodingers_cat
I don’t begrudge McCain his funeral arrangement. Who in their right mind would want T and P at their funerals. It would have been worth more if had done more of that shunning when he was alive. How many T judges did McCain vote to confirm?
zhena gogolia
@The Moar You Know:
You’d probably like Anthony Horowitz’s great mystery The Word Is Murder, which begins with a woman planning her own funeral.
CarolDuhart2
@Corner Stone: Sure, they do. But funerals are times where protocol takes over, and a sitting President coming to a Senator’s funeral is almost expected, especially one as long-serving as McCain. Not to mention his former running mate. In the absence of any notice, either might have come out of a sense of duty, or at least talked into making some appearance. So they had to make it explicit-neither would have taken the hint or asked otherwise.
The Moar You Know
@Corner Stone: I get that. However, I’m more than OK with the seven days of national flagellation, sackcloth and ashes in this case because every day of it grinds the president like a cheesegrater on the back of his combed-over, deformed head.
Guarantee you when the current president kicks he won’t get seven days of anything save for a national celebration of his death.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: How do you think I take pictures of the soul jl?
HeleninEire
OT kinda. I love this blog. Love, love, love it. I never complain about whatever the hell everyone complains about. Like nyms not sticking or the ads. This blog is free. I will shut up about the ads and the nyms. Cuz it’s free.
But please can we have something that says a new post is up? I keep commenting on an old post. And only when the comments get slow do I realize that I am an hour late to the next post.
And I say this as someone who is 5 hours ahead of you all. Aren’t you sad that my brilliant commentary doesn’t get read?
Gemina13
I disliked McCain intensely, but I will give him mad credit for being 2018’s Troll of the Year.
But Biden’s eulogy has undone me. You can tell he loved the man despite their differences, the main one being that McCain was an irredeemable asshole. Anyone want to bet that the whole church will be sobbing when Obama delivers Joe’s eulogy? Including Obama.
Corner Stone
Gin & Tonic
Everybody is focusing on the slights directed at Trump and Palin, but McCain also asked Vladimir Kara-Murza to be a pallbearer – a guy who was poisoned by Putin not once, but twice, and lived to tell about it.
efgoldman
@Corner Stone:
Fuckem
Gin & Tonic
@HeleninEire: Don’t ask a question if you don’t want to hear the answer.
debit
@Gemina13:
I already know I’ll be sobbing like my best friend died and I hated McCain.
HeleninEire
@Gin & Tonic: You don’t scare me. Stop thinking you do. ;)
debit
@HeleninEire: Don’t you see the little arrow on the right side of the page?
efgoldman
@CarolDuhart2:
Weasel Face? C’maaan.
His only sense of duty his to his id.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m praying they all write in Arpaio to spite the old man in November.
HeleninEire
@debit: It’s not on my phone. On my laptop, but I rarely use it.
CarolDuhart2
But somebody might have told him it looks bad, or he might have wanted to drop in in order to not be upstaged. If Aretha was white, he might have tried for a trip up to Michigan. It’s all about appearance to him and attention.
The Moar You Know
@Corner Stone: They do. I’ve had one of them in my office explaining to me how he was a traitor his entire life.
Fine by me. Love watching Republicans shoot each other.
debit
@HeleninEire: Weird! I see it on my iPhone. Kudos to you, I can’t deal with the mobile site and only use it to skim when I have no other option.
eemom
Um, if McCain had gotten his way, and if he’d died sooner than he did, fucking President Palin would most definitely have been at his funeral.
The hagiographers continue to amaze me.
eemom
@efgoldman:
Is the grandbaby here?
Gin & Tonic
@HeleninEire: You could write to Bess, and find out what tool s/he uses to be notified any time somebody mentions the name of a guy who builds rockets and electric cars, It seems to work very quickly, so maybe you could modify it to page you when there’s a new FP post.
debit
@Gin & Tonic: Burn!
Leto
@HeleninEire: If you’re 5 hours ahead, that means you know before us when the new posts are up. What’s the world like at 8:31pm? Is Trump still president? Are cat videos still a thing? Has John figured out how to not mop naked? /s
trollhattan
You’ll be shocked, shocked to learn the NCAA continues to Be Best at ensuring college athletics remains a money-making monopoly above all else. What’s a little multi-decade sexual abuse scandal among fri…business partners?
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic:
Do you remember the Musk cologne scandals of the ’80s? Boy, those were awful times, smelling that dreck while learning about Nikola Tesla in physics while listening to Tesla on your Walkman. Horrid stuff, that Musk. Did you know Tesla’s original band name was City Kid? It’s true!
A Ghost To Most
@Fair Economist:
I agree, mostly. McCain was being kind to the attendees in that relentless heat: he was throwing shade.
I still wish the bagpiper had broken into “You Can’t Always Get What You Want”.
WhatsMyNym
@eemom:
It’s make me wonder if some candidates put any thought into picking their VP ahead of time. Come on Palin as VP? Even with my brain tumor I know that was stupid.
Ohio Mom
@HeleninEire: I hear ya. I go through the same thing on occasion.
On Atrios’s threads, commentators say “sheets” when a thread has been superseded by a newer one (at least that’s what I remember, haven’t looked at a thread there in quite some time).
Could we here cultivate a similar public-spirited tradition? I dunno. It may be that we don’t call ourselves jackals for nothing.
Gin & Tonic
@trollhattan: Now you’ve done it.
HeleninEire
@Leto: I know you are snarking. That was snark on my part too. Also, too John Cole is STILL mopping naked. Cuz he like it.
satby
@zhena gogolia:
twinnie!
The Moar You Know
@trollhattan: Won’t work. Bess got the banhammer from Adam. It was pretty awesome.
debit
@satby: How is Dervish of a thousand names?
sukabi
@Ohio Mom: sheets is still a thing over there.
satby
@efgoldman: always miss you in threads, but saw below that the grandson had arrived early and healthy. Congratulations!
Nicole
The only message from beyond the grave I’d be interested in hearing from McCain would be, “Vote Democratic in November.”
Seeing as how he refused to resign (so that a special election could be held) and now the AZ gov gets to appoint his (GOP) successor, eff his petty trolling. The man sold out the nation so his family could get a tax cut on beer sales.
SiubhanDuinne
@trollhattan:
Certainly. I was at Elon College at the time.
Ohio Mom
@WhatsMyNym: Are you kidding about the brain tumor, I hope?
The story I’ve heard is that McCain had his heart set on Lieberman as his running mate but aides nixed that (why I don’t remember). For lack of any other idea, Bill Kristol’s brainstorm that Palin was perfect for the slot won out.
I don’t follow this sort of thing very closely but it seems to me that McCain is the only nominee I’ve ever heard of that chose his running mate so causally. Take that as reflecting on McCain anyway you’d like.
HeleninEire
@Gin & Tonic: LOL.
piratedan
well… since its Johnny Maverick’s funeral and it’s likely to be the last time that anyone actually bothers to give a shit about him (harsh, but most of what I will remember is the amount of damage he could have prevented by refusing to give McConnell the freedom to loot the Republic), I have no quarrel with his family deciding with him who should be in attendance and in what capacity. McCain always struck me that once you met him as a person, he would see you as a person, groups would be on their own… and if he would like his funeral to mostly be about his failings and his accomplishments, then I guess that’s alright by me. the fact that we have a sociopath in the Oval Office who is still generating attention by his pouting about not even being able to fuck up a political opponents funeral says way too much about the current state of our politics.
gene108
Sort of ironic that Democrats and liberals are more sympathetic and respectful about McCain’s passing than right-wingers, who are slamming him in various ways, from saying it was a suicide to calling him a traitor.
Ohio Mom
@sukabi: Thanks. I still enjoy Atrios, and visit Eschaton just about every day, but I don’t wade into the comment threads there anymore. Because I spend too much time here, mostly.
suffragettecity
I think a major troll on his part was having “My Way” by Sinatra at the conclusion.
satby
@debit: He’s a handful! And he always pays attention when I sternly say “Dervish Casper Tunch the first, get DOWN!”
He goes to the main rescue house this weekend because he is lonely for other playmates. I’m going to miss the little bugger, but he and I will get too bonded if I don’t move him, and a forever home of his own is much fairer for him.
Gelfling 545
@rikyrah: I feel reasonably sure that Mc Cain’s family hate both those people and have reason to. It was thoughtful of him to prevent them from having their mourning intruded upon by raving narcissists.
debit
@Ohio Mom: I think they wanted to make sure his VP pick would turn out the base. Lieberman was many things, but the only people who would be energized by him would be democrats who wanted to see him cry loser tears.
satby
@piratedan: how’s your pup today?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@HeleninEire: Yes, this is true; but the enduring question is: where is the mustard?
janesays
@schrodingers_cat: In fairness, he didn’t really choose Sarah Palin. He wanted Lieberman to be his running mate. Palin was Steve Schmidt’s recommendation. That said, McCain does still bear the ultimate responsibility for going along with it, because he did have the power to veto the suggestion, and he chose not to do so.
HeleninEire
@?BillinGlendaleCA: When I am my death bed I will ask “Where us the mustard?”
debit
@satby: Sad, but yeah, better for him in the long run. Kittens need other kittens to play with. Give him a smooch from me, right on his sweet little head, please.
Ohio Mom
@debit: I never understood Lieberman’s appeal to anyone but right-wing Jews. I mean, I certainly don’t like Trump but I can imagine why a yahoo might. But Leiberman? There is no there there.
piratedan
@satby: he’s doing pretty well, swelling is actually reduced (we thought it would linger more) and the bite wound itself is looking alright, hoping we won’t have to deal with any necrosis but its still early to consider that hurdle as cleared. He’s eating the soft foods with vigor but the pain meds are keeping him a bit on the “tame” side which is abnormal for him but probably what he needs to heal…
tyvm for asking! I’d post a pic but I don’t have any on a website other than facebook…
debit
@Ohio Mom: I think he appealed to the small group of people who had an unhealthy attraction to Droopy Dog as children.
In all seriousness, I wonder if he ever knew how much he was just hated all across the country? When he lost his primary and ran as an independent, I went on a trip to Chicago with a bunch of strangers also from Minnesota. There was a news announcement about polling (he was down) and the entire car cheered, then all looked at one another in surprise.
Ohio Mom
Any minute now, my best fellow-autism mom friend ever, will be ringing the doorbell. She broke my heart by moving away but is back in Cincinnati this weekend for a wedding. She just texted to tell me she’s almost here.
Catch you later…
satby
@debit: I will. He’s learned to love kisses on his nose.
@piratedan: I’m so glad to hear that!
satby
Shit, a plane just went so low over the house I expect to hear a crash soon. Hope not, but wow.
pamelabrown53
@eemom: @58.
FU. , with a rusty chainsaw, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemon.. As a mostly lurker I just gotta say that you have been a toxic waste dump for awhile. It’s not like you have 0 points to make, it;s just that you make them with hate and cynicism. I believe that hate and cynicism equals nihilism. Very dangerous to our individual psyches and our collective futures.
If a crisis is precipitating these negative proclamations, then I hope we can help and support you.
janesays
@eemom: I have a weird feeling that if McCain had won in 2008, he would have wound up choosing a different running mate in 2012. She desperately wanted to give her own concession speech on election night, and he pretty much told her to fuck right off (but probably not in those words).
Anywho, I’m extremely glad we never got to find out.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ohio Mom: the pro-lifers, who never trusted McCain in spite of that being one of the very few issues he was ever consistent on, threatened to bolt on McCain if he picked Lieberman. It’s always kind of amused me, they trusted Willard to stay bought, so to speak, on that issue, jumped aboard the Steve Forbes train when he was pretty loudly transactional about his flip-flop from 96 to 2000, never trusted Dole or McCain. Probably because in spite of their records their ironic, sarcastic senses of humor were off-putting to the righteous
Gelfling 545
@janesays: From what I’ve heard of him, probably in just those words. Seems he had the vocabulary traditionally ascribed to sailors.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
since all threads are open threads….
I don’t know who to replace him with. His competition for the job was Durbin, who strikes me as a stand-up guy but no knife-fighter, which I thought Schumer would be
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gelfling 545: well, we know how he talked to his wife…
debit
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hold on, if this is about the agreement to let a bunch of appointments through, I read that some of them were Obama appointments. If McConnell had his tit in a wringer and said those ones don’t get through unless the ones do as well, what’s he supposed to do?
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Why? As McTurtle has set up the senate, the minority leader has no power. What can Scchumer do differently?
Personal animus =/= effectiveness.
debit
@debit: Adding, some of them had been waiting three years. I really wish Rachel had researched that last night instead of being dismissive and bitchy about it.
randy khan
@Corner Stone:
Mitchell is completely right.
eemom
@pamelabrown53:
back atcha sweetie. Stick with lurking; it’s what you do best.
Aw thanks! I totally crave support from people who call me call me a toxic waste dump.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Gelfling 545: While he was an officer, I’m sure the Chiefs taught him Navy lingo quite well.
George
Jesus, some of you people.
Yeah, I understand how John McCain’s mere presence on the planet was a great insult to you.
Your pettiness about McCain may give you some bent sense of street cred in your own minds, but it makes you sound like a bunch of (1) halfwits and/or (2) trumpist trolls.
Try to focus on the golden ticket he left us–the one that includes snubbing a sitting GOP president as well as his former running mate in 2008; the one that includes pallbearers such as Biden, Gary Hart, Russ Feingold, Sheldon Whitehouse, Warren Beatty (!!!), and some dude who is a Russian dissident; the one that includes having Barack Obama deliver a eulogy.
Try to focus on the common ground and themes that he laid out in his final statement. What he wrote is not terribly unlike something Obama or Clinton might have written. However, it is diametrically opposed to anything a rightwinger could write in a million years.
Get over yourselves. Use the opportunity we have as one more tool against the GOP.
Doug R
@HeleninEire: Generally I find if I have two comments in a row, there’s a new thread.
When the desktop site is working right, our fearless leader generally tweets when a new thread appears.
janesays
@debit: political appointments expire when a president leaves office. All 15 of the judges that got fast tracked yesterday were
McGahn’sTrump’s rightwing nutjob picks. There was no justifiable reason for it to happen. It’s true that all of them would probably have wound up getting on eventually, but Schumer should have dragged out the procedural process for as long as possible.Jim, Foolish Literalist
@debit: Yeah, I guess it is more complicated than it appears, and I’m usually skeptical of the “if Democrats would just fight!” screamers on the internet. Chris Coons, I think it was, made the case yesterday on MSNBC. Also, the whole idea that “we” can stop this mass appointment depends on, IIRC, the Senate parliamentarian agreeing to the rules about a quorum as people like Adam Jentleson see them.
It was mostly the contrast with all the whining about Pelosi that jumped out at me.
rikyrah
National Enquirer Had Decades of Trump Dirt. He Wanted to Buy It All.
By Jim Rutenberg and Maggie Haberman
Aug. 30, 2018
Federal investigators have provided ample evidence that President Trump was involved in deals to pay two women to keep them from speaking publicly before the 2016 election about affairs that they said they had with him.
But it turns out that Mr. Trump wanted to go even further.
He and his lawyer at the time, Michael D. Cohen, devised a plan to buy up all the dirt on Mr. Trump that the National Enquirer and its parent company had collected on him, dating back to the 1980s, according to several of Mr. Trump’s associates.
The existence of the plan, which was never finalized, has not been reported before. But it was strongly hinted at in a recording that Mr. Cohen’s lawyer released last month of a conversation about payoffs that Mr. Cohen had with Mr. Trump.
debit
@George: What bug crawled up your shorts? A couple people said they were sick of him being treated like a saint when in reality he was a deeply flawed person who actually hurt a lot of people, maybe just as many as he helped. JFC, get a grip.
eemom
@piratedan:
Now THAT is the kind of tribute I can get on board with.
Gin & Tonic
@George: “Some dude” is named Vladimir Kara-Murza. It would have taken you less time to Google him than it took you to type out your comment. He’s quite a bit more than “some dude.”
Another Scott
@The Moar You Know: Last I saw, Bess wasn’t banned by Adam, but Adam made it clear he would be if he didn’t stop his antics.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
randy khan
@efgoldman:
The argument is that, within the rules, there are a lot of ways to slow things down. Just one example: Require individual votes on every judge, rather than bundling them. Schumer apparently has gone along with bundled votes.
Lapassionara
@HeleninEire: if you follow John Cole on Twitter, you will see notices of new posts. And, yes, I know how awful Twitter is.
janesays
OK, I stand corrected… at least partially. Judicial nominations do expire when a president leaves office, so all of the nominees getting through are Trump appointments, but some of them are people who Obama had previously nominated but whose nominations were held up by the obstructionist turtle brigade.
debit
@janesays: I assume that he had a reason we are unaware of and made the best deal he could. I can’t think of any reason why he would shoot himself in the foot and give away the store just for chuckles or laziness. I also assume that we will find out in the fullness of time, but until then, yes, by all means go ahead and needlessly wound him.
A Ghost To Most
New documentary featuring McCain warning about Russians, and pointing at RNC platform change in particular
Emma
@George: Thank you. We often miss the opportunity because we’re to occupied with being righteous.
rikyrah
They know this. They KNOW what their father did for them.
Black Excellence Is Not Crazy: Viral Video Shows Richard Williams Creating Black Superheroes
Stephen A. Crockett Jr.
Today 12:54pm
Raven
@eemom: hey loudmouth, I want you to go back to the thread where you jumped my ass and tell me where I “honored” McCain? Then run your nasty shit about my dick.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@SiubhanDuinne: One of my grad students is now a tenured faculty member at Elon. It sounds like a great place.
janesays
@debit: The most likely reason I’ve heard was so that his senators would have a few extra days to campaign in their home states.
Which isn’t a very good tradeoff.
JPL
I sure hope that Daniel Dale is going to cover Trump’s rally tonight. When he mentions the ACA vote will he say that is no longer a problem?
debit
@janesays: Considering what’s at stake, I think it is. Sorry for being a bitch earlier. It’s been a long Infrastructure Week.
debit
Oh look, new thread.
janesays
@debit: Wound him? Valid criticism is now called “wounding”?
A) he’s not up for re-election this year; B) even if he were, there’s pretty close to no chance that his seat will ever be jeopardy, given that it’s one of the bluest states in the country.
lgerard
I think McCain missed a bet by not having Mueller, Comey, Brennen, Avenatti, Micheal Cohen and Omarosa as pallbearers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@janesays: Given that they’re including those Obama hold-overs, it sounds to me as if Schumer and McConnell both have one eye on the midterms. Odds are GOP will hold the Senate and they’ll be able to push through anyone they want, but if McConnell is thinking that the Dems just might fill the straight and take the Senate, Schumer can stop a lot more judges starting next January. So they’re both taking part of a loaf.
Anybody wanna pointlessly speculate about whether or not Susan Collins will flip if the Senate comes back 50/50?
debit
@janesays: I think criticism before knowing all the facts does wound, yes. And there’s such a thing as death by a thousand cuts. Why can’t we ever defend our people the way republicans do? Why do we always assume that our guys fucked up, or are deliberately bad at what they do?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@debit:
Gotta pull on it.
George
@Gin & Tonic: No bug at all. I’m voicing my opinion that perhaps instead of incessant whinging about what McCain did or didn’t do that pissed off people, we should take advantage of the things that can be used against the party of Trump.
The fact that McCain hated Trump to the extent that he made sure he was not on the list of invitees to his funeral? I’m not a historian by profession, but a former GOP presidential nominee disinviting a sitting GOP president from attending his funeral doesn’t happen every day. Had not Trump and his supporters normalized insanity, something like that would be huge news.
There is no reason why we cannot use the animosity between McCain and Trump as a way to isolate the rightwing further. There is no way we should ignore the example that McCain set of putting country before party. Yeah, I didn’t support most of his votes in the senate, but at this point, so what? At this point, complaining about his votes is not going to help put cracks in the rightwing.
debit
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Great, go ahead and tell John why you unraveled the blog.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Chris Coons did not make the case yesterday on MSNBC. It essentially boiled down to, “Our members could spend a few extra days at home campaigning instead of standing up what was going to happen anyway.”
IMO, that’s not making a case.
Ruckus
@gene108:
Are you saying that conservatives have no humanity?
They are raggng on McCain because he is dissing their hero.
debit
@George: I think you meant to reply to me, and I think you overestimate the power of this blog.
zhena gogolia
@debit:
This was my refrain all through the 2016 campaign, every time I heard some liberal wanking about her e-mails. It was also my refrain in 2004, about Kerry. I don’t care if he water skis or whatever it was.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Replace Chuck with Jeff Merkely as Senate Majority Leader!
A Ghost To Most
@debit: Ask Al Franken.
Jay
@debit:
If he followed Yurtle the Turtle’s antics during the Obama Presidency, Schumer could have delayed these appointments into December and consumed almost all the available floor time in the Senate, as well. So he could have brought the Senate to gridlock on everything but Commitees.
There’s an event taking place in November that might change the metrics of the Senate.
A Ghost To Most
@suffragettecity: No Sinatra fan here. It seems way over used at funerals.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@debit: Can you unravel something that’s already unraveled? Deep Thoughts…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a meaningful way of doing that would have been following the example of French politicos who hated Macron personally and politically, but endorsed him anyway because Marine LePen was a living, walking, breathing degradation to their country. McCain perpetuated some lies about Benghazi because he wanted to die in the Senate.
Another way to do that, once it was too late to do the above, was make his vote on the tax cuts, or Gorsuch, contingent on any number of restraints on trump. He chose not to do that.
Another way to do that, in the last six months of his life, when he was actively tweeting and making phone calls and I think giving interviews, would have been to publicly echo the words of so many of his advisors, that the Republican Party needed to be fumigated, and to do that they needed to lose hard this November. He could done any number of things less dramatic to take the wind out his party’s sails, to stiffen their spines, to remind some of them of the better angels of their nature. He chose not to do that.
Also, Person I’ve Never Seen Before, it’s just a fucking blog. Not even in the top 10,000.
J R in WV
@Mary G:
Good friend is a professional and highly regarded piper. Not long after we moved into our new current home. so around 1995 he was back in the neighborhood, it was still lots of bare hickory and spruch. He pulled out a set of “parlor pipes” smaller and intended for indoors, and played some famous songs, and then disappeared into the library.
He came out with his battle pipes, full bore weaponized pipes, and after a few minutes of playing he began to march back and forth. Amazing sound. Many years later we were in his not home town of Pittsburgh on other business and as we left the Carnegie Museum to cross the U Pitt campus at late dusk, a wedding service at the campus chapel, a gothic style mini-cathedral reached the point in the ceremony for the piper outside the chapel to begin piping. It was our old friend again, on the big pipes.
Is that a Navajo piper in the video? Really? Arizona is an interesting place. The Navajo have zero funeral traditions, they mostly move the nearly deceased person out of the home so their ghost isn’t caught up in the structure when they do finally die. No words for a funeral, they don’t exist in their universe. But white western culture does exist in their universe, and when a Medal of Honor Navajo Code Talker hero dies, many white people strongly desire to publicly honor the late hero — and here the Navajo appear to be willing to honor McCain.
In Navajo history they speak of fallen heros as “one who fell off” or the “girl who fell” in a remote and distant 3rd person, so as to not wake the spirit of the fallen heros, which have no relationship to the person who was a hero. It’s difficult to describe, really, it’s so different from our concept of the fallen of history.
eemom
@Raven:
Seemed to me you were sticking up for him just because he was a Vietnam war hero, in spite of all the horrible things he did after he came back, and I thought that was interesting given your attitude about LBJ. Maybe I misunderstood. If I did, I take it back.
The reference to your manhood was figurative, of course.
eemom
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
The real question is, can you RAVEL something? Also, why can’t you mantle something when you can dismantle it? And why can’t you have a gruntled employee?
Gin & Tonic
@George: You are apparently responding to someone other than me, as this has nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote.
misterpuff
This is, of course, good news for John McCain.
err maybe not.
On the other hand, I heard his tire swing is being enshrined in the Newseum, where it will be worshipped as a perfect bipartisan relic of a by-gone era by Local Villagers.
George
@Gin & Tonic: Mea culpa. Yes, I meant to reply to debit.
George
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve commented a few times, but usually I just lurk because I have nothing to report about cats (I have none) nor gardens (mine is small and not terribly productive).
Sure, you always can complain that McCain didn’t behave exactly as you wanted him to behave.
So what?
What I’m saying is that we need to use the reality we have, not the reality as we hoped it would be. If McCain had done exactly as you described, would your view of him be tempered? Or would you simply list other things you think he should have done to take the wind out the GOP sails?
Amir Khalid
@eemom:
“Ravel” and “unravel” mean the same thing, just as “flammable” and “inflammable” do.
Amir Khalid
@eemom:
Of course you could have a gruntled employee, one who is the opposite of disgruntled; but you probably wouldn’t use the word to describe them because it has largely fallen out of use.
janesays
@Amir Khalid: And if there’s ever a nuclear war, we’ll all be exposed to both irradiation and radiation.
J R in WV
@eemom:
I so seldom agree with you I feel it essential to say something when I do. Sick of the celebration of McCain, glad he’s trolling Trump and Palin from the grave.
J R in WV
@eemom:
OK, now I remember you better. Fuck you and LBJ and the horse you rode in on!
raven
@eemom: I appreciate this. I haven’t “weighed in” precisely because I have the same misgivings about him. My buddy called me fro Berkeley and asked “so what do you think of this love fest for McCain?” I said “shiiitttttt, what a crock” and he breathed a sigh of relief.