Fair Winds and Following Seas to Senator McCain

(Insignia of Attack Squadron/VA 163 – The Saints)

Over the decades and the wars that span them, new verses have been written for the Navy Hymn expanding it to cover new naval occupations and their accompanying hazards. There are two verses of the Navy Hymn that were written for naval aviators. The first by Mary C. D. Hamilton in 1915 and the second by Emma Mayhew Whiting in 1943.

Lord, guard and guide the men who fly
Through the great spaces in the sky.
Be with them always in the air,
In darkening storms or sunlight fair;
Oh, hear us when we lift our prayer,
For those in peril in the air!
Mary C. D. Hamilton (1915)

Oh, Watchful Father who dost keep
Eternal vigil while we sleep
Guide those who navigate on high
Who through grave unknown perils fly,
Receive our oft-repeated prayer
For those in peril in the air.
Emma Mayhew Whiting (1943)

And here is the traditional/original version of the Navy Hymn performed by the US Naval Academy Glee Club.

Fair winds and following seas…

98 replies
  1. 1
    Billy K says:

    Come on, John… Keating Five, 2008 financial crisis, Iraq, torture support, voting with Trump…

    He was a gregarious person I liked, and I take no joy in any death, but let’s not celebrate this man’s terrible achievements.

  2. 2
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Billy K: I’m not John.

  3. 3
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I’m glad this thread is up because it’s gonna piss off that nutmeg from a couple of threads down

  4. 4
    NotMax says:

    Religion + military.

    A baleful and perilous mix.

  5. 5
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m not Spartacus

  6. 6
    Mike in NC says:

    Fair winds, etc. of course but never lose sight of the fact that John McCain used nepotism to get into Annapolis through the back door, whereas thousands of regular men and women needed to take examinations and pass a rigorous admission process to get in.

  7. 7
    B.B.A. says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m not Rappaport.

  8. 8

    If I recall the Keating Five scandal, McCain came out of that investigation singed but not condemned (they didn’t find enough to hang him). In response he seemed to take up campaign reforms that led to the McCain-Feingold bill and the House version that eventually passed by 2002.

    In terms of the nastier McCain that emerged by 2008, I fear a lot of that had to do with a nasty Republican party he still chained his fortunes to. It’s the regrets of missed chances that bother me about him now.

    My take on McCain linked here.

  9. 9
    Mary G says:

    He understood the concept of duty, for which I admire him. There are plenty of other things I don’t admire about him, but today is not the day. Ivanka Trump tweeted condolences and is getting roasted. I may have chimed in a bit.

  10. 10
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m okay being Spartacus if that means I’m dating Katrina Law.

  11. 11
    Ruckus says:

    Adam, we seem to be of two minds here tonight. Those who can respect the man in spite of our like/dislike of him and those who can not. Having served in the same branch of the service as John McCain did, I salute him for his service. He went through far more than most and was held prisoner for 2 yrs longer than I served. I’ve seen men that went through far less and had a hell of a time with that. John McCain was a fellow sailor and so I bid him calm seas and fair winds.

  12. 12
    suzanne says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I can’t imagine she’s sober enough at this point.

  13. 13
    Adam L Silverman says:


    (emphasis mine)

    It was the evening of Feb. 2, 1943, and the U.S.A.T. Dorchester was crowded to capacity, carrying 902 service men, merchant seamen and civilian workers.

    Once a luxury coastal liner, the 5,649-ton vessel had been converted into an Army transport ship. The Dorchester, one of three ships in the SG-19 convoy, was moving steadily across the icy waters from Newfoundland toward an American base in Greenland. SG-19 was escorted by Coast Guard Cutters Tampa, Escanaba and Comanche.

    Hans J. Danielsen, the ship’s captain, was concerned and cautious. Earlier the Tampa had detected a submarine with its sonar. Danielsen knew he was in dangerous waters even before he got the alarming information. German U-boats were constantly prowling these vital sea lanes, and several ships had already been blasted and sunk.

    The Dorchester was now only 150 miles from its destination, but the captain ordered the men to sleep in their clothing and keep life jackets on. Many soldiers sleeping deep in the ship’s hold disregarded the order because of the engine’s heat. Others ignored it because the life jackets were uncomfortable.

    On Feb. 3, at 12:55 a.m., a periscope broke the chilly Atlantic waters. Through the cross hairs, an officer aboard the German submarine U-223 spotted the Dorchester.

    The U-223 approached the convoy on the surface, and after identifying and targeting the ship, he gave orders to fire the torpedoes, a fan of three were fired. The one that hit was decisive–and deadly–striking the starboard side, amid ship, far below the water line.

    Captain Danielsen, alerted that the Dorchester was taking water rapidly and sinking, gave the order to abandon ship. In less than 20 minutes, the Dorchester would slip beneath the Atlantic’s icy waters.

    Tragically, the hit had knocked out powerdorchestertelegram and radio contact with the three escort ships. The CGC Comanche, however, saw the flash of the explosion. It responded and then rescued 97 survivors. The CGC Escanaba circled the Dorchester, rescuing an additional 132 survivors. The third cutter, CGC Tampa, continued on, escorting the remaining two ships.

    Aboard the Dorchester, panic and chaos had set in. The blast had killed scores of men, and many more were seriously wounded. Others, stunned by the explosion were groping in the darkness. Those sleeping without clothing rushed topside where they were confronted first by a blast of icy Arctic air and then by the knowledge that death awaited.

    Men jumped from the ship into lifeboats, over-crowding them to the point of capsizing, according to eyewitnesses. Other rafts, tossed into the Atlantic, drifted away before soldiers could get in them.

    Through the pandemonium, according to those present, four Army chaplains brought hope in despair and light in darkness. Those chaplains were Lt. George L. Fox, Methodist; Lt. Alexander D. Goode, Jewish; Lt. John P. Washington, Roman Catholic; and Lt. Clark V. Poling, Dutch Reformed.

    Quickly and quietly, the four chaplains spread out among the soldiers. There they tried to calm the frightened, tend the wounded and guide the disoriented toward safety.

    “Witnesses of that terrible night remember hearing the four men offer prayers for the dying and encouragement for those who would live,” says Wyatt R. Fox, son of Reverend Fox.

    One witness, Private William B. Bednar, found himself floating in oil-smeared water surrounded by dead bodies and debris. “I could hear men crying, pleading, praying,” Bednar recalls. “I could also hear the chaplains preaching courage. Their voices were the only thing that keptme going.”

    Another sailor, Petty Officer John J. Mahoney, tried to reenter his cabin but Rabbi Goode stopped him. Mahoney, concerned about the cold Arctic air, explained he had forgotten his gloves.

    “Never mind,” Goode responded. “I have two pairs.” The rabbi then gave the petty officer his own gloves. In retrospect, Mahoney realized that Rabbi Goode was not conveniently carrying two pairs of gloves, and that the rabbi had decided not to leave the Dorchester.

    By this time, most of the men were topside, and the chaplains opened a storage locker and began distributing life jackets. It was then that Engineer Grady Clark witnessed an astonishing sight.

    When there were no more lifejackets in the storage room, the chaplains removed theirs and gave them to four frightened young men.

    “It was the finest thing I have seen or hope to see this side of heaven,” said John Ladd, another survivor who saw the chaplains’ selfless act.

    Ladd’s response is understandable. The altruistic action of the four chaplains constitutes one of the purest spiritual and ethical acts a person can make. When giving their life jackets, Rabbi Goode did not call out for a Jew; Father Washington did not call out for a Catholic; nor did the Reverends Fox and Poling call out for a Protestant. They simply gave their life jackets to the next man in line.

    As the ship went down, survivors in nearby rafts could see the four chaplains–arms linked and braced against the slanting deck. Their voices could also be heard offering prayers.

    Of the 902 men aboard the U.S.A.T. Dorchester, 672 died, leaving 230 survivors. When the news reached American shores, the nation was stunned by the magnitude of the tragedy and heroic conduct of the four chaplains.

    “Valor is a gift,” Carl Sandburg once said. “Those having it never know for sure whether they have it until the test comes.”

    That night Reverend Fox, Rabbi Goode, Reverend Poling and Father Washington passed life’s ultimate test. In doing so, they became an enduring example of extraordinary faith, courage and selflessness.

    The Distinguished Service Cross and Purple Heart were awarded posthumously December 19, 1944, to the next of kin by Lt. Gen. Brehon B. Somervell, Commanding General of the Army Service Forces, in a ceremony at the post chapel at Fort Myer, VA.


    A one-time only posthumous Special Medal for Heroism was authorized by Congress and awarded by the President Eisenhower on January 18, 1961. Congress attempted to confer the Medal of Honor but was blocked by the stringent requirements that required heroism performed under fire. The special medal was intended to have the same weight and importance as the Medal of Honor.

  14. 14
    ruemara says:

    @Ruckus: Agreed. I can do both.

    Oh, do folks want the double flavor banan bread recipe, the garlic biscuits recipe or the fig tart winging it recipe in the next update?

  15. 15
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @suzanne: I clearly missed something being offline for a bit.

  16. 16
    The Dangerman says:

    @Mary G:

    Ivanka Trump tweeted condolences and is getting roasted.

    Curious. Papa Trump posted condolences; wonder why the wolves are out for Ivanka (other than they are wolves).

    Come to think of it, any roasting of a Trump is just fine as long as I’m upwind.

  17. 17
    suzanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: you didn’t miss much.

  18. 18
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Dangerman: Apparently he did an Instagram with a picture of himself.

  19. 19
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Mary G: he understood the concept of duty, for which I admire him

    true, but I genuinely wonder if the revelations of the last week, assuming he was able and willing to follow them, made him regret not doing more in the last year

    @Adam L Silverman: Kirk Douglas got married again? Long may he wave

  20. 20
    smintheus says:

    I met McCain in 1993 and had an exceedingly low opinion of his behavior at that meeting at USNA … but can we please leave McCain be tonight, and instead attack Sarah Palin? I just looked at her twitter feed; ugh.

  21. 21
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @suzanne: That’s good.

  22. 22
    dnfree says:

    Thank you for highlighting the Navy Hymn. My father served in the navy in World War II in the Pacific, where his ship was bombed. All he requested for his funeral in 2014 was this hymn.

  23. 23
    The Dangerman says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Apparently he did an Instagram with a picture of himself.

    Eh, I’m OK with Trump posting a picture of himself, even in condolences, as long as he doesn’t click the wrong file and give us a dickpic.

  24. 24
    ruemara says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The man has genuine quality. Terrible quality but quality nonetheless.

  25. 25
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: UGH! Why did you post that in the thread so we have to see his horrid image? A link is good enough. We can click through if we want to. YUCK. It completely ruins the thread.

  26. 26
    Ruckus says:

    @The Dangerman:
    That picture is on the level of people who can only see the warts and can’t see the/any humanity at all.
    I figured that we get that though, the republicans have driven most of us mad, some of us more than others and in a different mad than anger.

  27. 27
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Can’t tell if you’re trolling or serious. Have you never seen Spartacus on Starz?

  28. 28
    NotMax says:

    Ah. Heavy, soaking rain outside.

    For a change (not).

    Temp must have dropped 10 degrees in the last 20 minutes.

  29. 29
    eemom says:


    Go on, have a brownie. It’s legal there, right? #MoDo

  30. 30
    Steeplejack (tablet) says:


    Garlic biscuits, please.

  31. 31
  32. 32
    suzanne says:

    @eemom: Oh, for Christ’s sake. I do not smoke weed. Though maybe I should, since maybe then I would find you amusing instead of contemptible.

  33. 33
    Mnemosyne says:


    I vote for banana bread.

  34. 34
    Mike J says:

    If he had won and died a few years earlier, we would have had President Sarah Palin. You do have to wonder how it would compare to Trump.

  35. 35
    suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: The exclamation point at the end is so weird. It feels more like a teenager signing a yearbook. Though if Trump, uh, saw him next summer, I would only be sad that it wasn’t sooner.

  36. 36
    Yutsano says:

    @ruemara: I already saw the tart so…you know my vote.

  37. 37
  38. 38
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    Banana bread should not have to be “double flavored.”

  39. 39
    suzanne says:

    @eemom: Yeah, I was drinking. My kid was in a behavioral hospital (is doing much better now, thanks for asking) and my friend died of an antibiotic-resistant infection and I also had a miscarriage, all in the same weekend. It was the first and last time in fifteen years that I drank to the point of intoxication. I will note that you apparently bookmarked that in an attempt to humiliate me in the future,

    You may also note that at no point did I drop into the blog and insult anyone, or shit on the dead. That’s your M.O. Once again, go hide somewhere and stop drinking.

  40. 40
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @suzanne: You have email.

  41. 41
    suzanne says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I can’t access the email address tied to my nym, as it is an old account. I’m friends with John on Book of Faces…..any way you can PM me?

  42. 42
    trollhattan says:

    A deeply flawed man (who amongst us…?) John McCain nevertheless had a sense of duty to his country backed up by action and his literal blood. Compared to the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave he towers and for that I thank him and wish he had not succumbed to cancer and rather was still in the senate being a dagger in Trump’s side. Fvck cancer.

    Save journeys sir and peace to your family.

  43. 43
    eemom says:


    You insulted me and accused me of being drunk for no other reason than that I disagreed with your comment about McCain.

    I didn’t bookmark shit. I just know that I’ve seen your “poor me” shitshow on here any number of times and that it’s been accompanied by comments like the one I linked. Google is your friend.

    btw, if I were drunk — what’s going on in MY life right now? Do you know?

    Fuck you, you smug little twat. Maybe someday you’ll grow up.

  44. 44
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @suzanne: Nope, not that way. Shoot me an email using the contact a front pager tool on the drop down menu at the top right of the page and I’ll resend it to the address you use for that email.

  45. 45
    Amir Khalid says:


    It feels more like a teenager signing a yearbook.

    It does indeed. It amazes me that, for all his money and connections, Trump can be so deficient in grace.

  46. 46
    suzanne says:

    @eemom: You didn’t “disagree”. You dropped into the thread and called me and everyone else an “idiot” who thought it might be appropriate to say something remotely complimentary about a war hero who died today. And you pull this shit all the time. You pick fights with everyone. You insult commenters every time you come to a thread. Your hair-trigger temper and nastiness to people who have literally said NOTHING to you makes me think you’re an angry drunk. God, if you’re not a drunk, you’re just a terrible person.

  47. 47

    Hm, the cat just careened across the room to… eat a bug, I guess? But I have no idea what it was. Jeez, I hope we don’t have bugs.

  48. 48
    ruemara says:

    @Steeplejack (phone): Well, it doesn’t have to be, but when you can, why not? This was chocolate and spice banana bread & it was quite good.

    Oh, seattle juicers! I will be back for PodCon2 in Jan. Poddier than ever. Shall we do the libations and victuals thing?

  49. 49
  50. 50
    Ruckus says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    He’s so deficient in so much why should grace be any different?

  51. 51
    eemom says:


    Go reread that thread, child. And use that google. I don’t think your descriptions are quite accurate.

    I have an opinion about you and your much described problems that I’ll refrain from uttering. Now put out the steam emerging from your itty bitty ears like a good 12 year old, and don’t provoke me anymore. Good night.

  52. 52
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    @eemom: Oh, for fuck’s sake. Just fuck off. I don’t know you (thank G-d!) and I’ve never had any interaction with you (halleluyah!), but I’ve observed you coming in to thread after thread, year after year, dripping poison like a diarrheic Shelob. Go back into your cave and onto your meds and leave decent people alone. And don’t bother to reply – I already know pie is delicious.

  53. 53
    Yutsano says:

    @ruemara: This time I’m showing up!

  54. 54
  55. 55
    Ruckus says:

    We have such a nice blog filter, made expressly for times and people constantly offending like tonight and I just had to put someone else in it. All that angst against you for what, that you once had a very bad weekend? Life is too short for that kind of bullshit. Sorry that you are on the receiving end.

  56. 56
    Ruckus says:

    And obviously aren’t alone.

  57. 57
    suzanne says:

    @eemom: Considering that I know my health habits and I have to take periodic drug tests because I’m often on construction sites for my job, I’m more than confident about how much I drink (1-2 drinks a week, rarely at the same time) and what kinds of drugs I use (none). I have made frequent tongue-in-cheek comments about lots of stuff. I mean, just tonight, I discussed crapping on the president’s face and vomiting on his grave. I can assure you that those things won’t happen, either.

    Your opinion on my life matters none at all.

  58. 58
    suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: She tried to get into it with me on Facebook, too. Had to block her there.

    I mean, just tonight, I discussed crapping on the president’s face and vomiting on his grave.

    I just want to live in this fantasy a little bit longer.

  59. 59
    Aleta says:

    I realize that sometime in the last years I stopped thinking of enlistees in the Navy as sailors. The difference between the two is what I think of, instead of the history of ships or the uniform. And ‘following seas’ reminds me of kayaking more than sailing now. My first would water plane down a large enough following swell, which left a lasting sensation. (It had no skeg but a good rudder.)

    When I think of following seas with a military boat, it’s a visual not a sensation. Must be because the Navy is far removed from my experience of the ocean. I wish the Navy on its maneuvers could work cleaning pollution and trash into its drills more frequently though. And be responsive to science data about it causing harm to sea life. It’s too close to the attitude on land bases until the 80s, of disregarding the environment, which harmed so many military families and wildlife populations.

    McCain is a tough one for those of us who liked him a lot. Even obituaries mention the controversies and compromising fights associated with a politician. By nature he was a politician as well as a military person. The war, his years as a POW, and torture probably affected how he handled the last part of his political career.

    Blame shouldn’t go to his critics but to the Republicans who used him without conscience. The Bushes, their operatives, the Christian right, the Trump administration. They must have forced new pain on a gregarious man caught up in their manipulations, and he dealt with it however he had to to get along.

  60. 60
    eemom says:

    You people are reading comprehension challenged sheep, and I don’t give a shit what any of you think. Nighty night. 😘

  61. 61
    Ruckus says:

    I really, really do like a late night thread with an extremely obnoxious poster, who comes in and shits on everyone. Simply delightful!
    Like I didn’t get enough shit in the navy and someone feels they need to make up for it. Believe me I got my fair share of shit. Everyone got their fair share of shit. It was an equal opportunity shit fest. I didn’t really want to enjoy that over again.

  62. 62
    Jay says:

    4 front pages on McCain, a thorn in the side of Democratic agendas for decades, because of a war of words, mostly not deeds, with President Bone Spurs.

    And the one Republican notbin Russia’s pocket.

    Yet a lot of really, really good people died today, including 23 children bombed while fleeing a Saudi bombing.

    Funny that.

  63. 63
    Mnemosyne says:


    There’s always a better person who died the same day as a famous person. Not much anyone can do about that. It’s the luck of the draw.

    I don’t have much to say about McCain because I don’t think about him much. I started losing respect for him in 2000 and he was on a steady decline ever since. The best I can say of him was that he did occasionally show flashes of independence, which set him apart from his lockstep caucus.

  64. 64
    suzanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: McCain is getting attention here because he is important in the social arena that we’re here to discuss (the topic other than the pets). It’s not because any of us think he is awesome. I do think that his death is a good opportunity to think on the positive parts of his life and career in public service. I get that the guy is problematic. I haven’t seen a single commenter dispute that.

  65. 65
    pattonbt says:

    The mans political life was poisonous full stop. One symbolic “fuck you” trump vote at the end was nowhere near enough of a death bed confession to absolve him of the horrendous policies he either championed or sat idly by quietly while they passed. This goes for any republican politician of stature in the last 50 years. His hands are unclean.

    The mans military career was complex. He willingly served and put himself in harms way. He survived an ordeal that I wish on no one. He also was most likely not fit for the duty he performed (nepotism) and because of that put peers in harms way.

    Regardless, he was a major figure in the political world in the last 50 years and is due the headlines. Unfortunately, I fear the minuses (which far outweigh the pluses) will be ignored in history. It is much easier to remember the myth of McCain (Maverick – the least apt nickname in the history of nicknames) versus the actual man. The actual man should not be remembered too fondly.

    My father died of the same horrible disease. I am sure he was good to family and friends. I am sorry for their loss. But it is difficult for me to ignore the balance of his life and venerate a man who’s actions have damaged so many others.

  66. 66
    Amir Khalid says:

    A random guitar thought:
    Dot inlays don’t look quite right on a Les Paul’s fretboard. Should I get block inlay stickers?

  67. 67
    Ruckus says:

    I’ve seen no one here venerate John McCain. My self included. We are giving him one day of respect for having been the person he was and for at least trying to be something. We didn’t agree with his politics. We didn’t agree with his ideals. But enough people of his state voted to keep him in office. He was magnanimous at that Al Smith dinner that Doug! posted. He was magnanimous at his loss to President Obama. And he spent over 5 yrs in a POW camp and served in the same navy that I did. And he died of a very shitty form of brain cancer. One day to respect him is not too much to ask. Tomorrow we can rag on him all we want. He deserves that too.
    We really do need to remember to be the bigger person here. Yes that’s sometimes very difficult to remember and sometimes even harder to do. I won’t be able to do that for the shitgibbon but I can do it for people who aren’t actively trying to kill me every day. And he wasn’t.

  68. 68
    suzanne says:

    @Ruckus: It is also likely that whomever Ducey appoints to fill the seat for the next two years will be horrible. Our Senate primary is on Tuesday. Shit is getting weird.

  69. 69
    Ruckus says:

    Let’s see a refuckingpublican from AZ….
    Horrible, check.
    Shit weird, check.
    I think that you’ve just about got it covered.

  70. 70
    patrick II says:

    I have been wondering why he kept his senate seat instead of retiring when he went home a few months ago when he turned seriously ill. Turns out he waited long enough that his replacement will be picked by the governor. If he would have left earlier in spring there would have been time for a primary and election in 2018. As it is the republicans keep the seat until 2020. Instead of John doing the right ting and letting the voters decide now he played sneaky partisan one last time

  71. 71
    patrick II says:

    @patrick II:

    And he was a brave military man, there is not taking that away from him. There are different kinds of courage and he had that kind in abundance.

  72. 72
    suzanne says:

    @patrick II:

    Instead of John doing the right ting and letting the voters decide now he played sneaky partisan one last time

    Actually, this will probably work out better for Arizona Dems. Unless you wanted Joe Arpaio to end up with one of the Senate seats.

  73. 73
    pattonbt says:

    @Ruckus: I appreciate the sentiment. I do. But I find it difficult to find much sympathy for a man who’s actions directly led to pain and suffering. Maybe I’m supposed to say nothing, but I’ve always found the treatment of McCain specifically nauseating. Five years as a POW (and volunteering for service to country) should not afford him a shield against how he chose to live the rest of his life. He took the opportunities available to him and followed a path harmful to most people. I do not dance on his grave but I do not afford him a pass either.

    So he told a woman Obama wasn’t an Arab. Did he follow on by saying “and so what if he was”. So he passed campaign finance reform. He turned on it immediately. He supported every tax cut, war and evil republican agenda and dog whistle crap his entire career. He was no maverick and no grand bipartisan politician. He was a political myth.

    He deserves some reverence for his actions during his time as a POW. Had he left his life there, the rememberances may have been worthy. But he used that platform to foist some evil crap on the rest of us.

    Again, I feel for his family, I am sure he was great to them. He suffered in ways no one should. But he should be remembered in the public sphere as the man he actually was, not what he was made out to be.

  74. 74
    piratedan says:

    @Ruckus: Here’s the current listing of Congressional representatives:

    As of the start of the 115th Congress, Arizona’s representatives in the United States House of Representatives are Tom O’Halleran (D-1), Martha McSally (R-2), Raul Grijalva (D-3), Paul Gosar (R-4), Andy Biggs (R-5), David Schweikert (R-6), Ruben Gallego (D-7), Debbie Lesko (R-8), and Kyrsten Sinema (D-9). Arizona gained a ninth seat in the House of Representatives due to redistricting based on Census 2010.

    Since Flake is retiring, McSally and the aforementioned Ray of Sunshine Kelly Ward are the GOP primary entries (along with Sheriff Joe)…

    My best guess is if McSally gets defeated in the primary, Ducey will appoint her to take McCain’s seat.. the reasoning is if we really are on the threshold of a blue wave, McSally is most likely to get her ass handed to her in a general election.

    If McSally wins the primary, then I suspect one of the other remaining GOP congresscritters get a nod unless they choose to dig up someone truly heinous like Trent Franks, who was recently forced to resign or they can take another odious GOP State Senator from a safe seat to plug and play… the easy way out is to appoint Ms. McCain to caretaker the seat but there have rumblings that Ms. McCain still has a soul and would thusly then be disqualified. The state is gerrymandered at the local level so they could always access someone from their deep bench of crazy to serve and probably not have too drastic an effect on the district they’re hoping to protect but Ducey is something of a wildcard and brazen as fuck as well (his campaign ads crow about teachers getting raises but make no mention at all that they had to strike and hold the state capitol under siege to get it). I only know that the bench in the state is deep in Derp and thusly will mostly likely be another lockstep lemming.

  75. 75
    NotMax says:


    Presumably the chance of Brewer receiving the appointment is (one hopes) zero?

  76. 76
    piratedan says:

    @NotMax: probably the same as Franks, unlikely but while we’re not Texas, we have our own brand of stupid….

  77. 77
    Ruckus says:

    Guys, you just don’t get it.
    For at least one day. Look at what President Obama wrote about him. Look what Al Franken wrote.
    Do you really want everything to be about how fucking shitty republicans are? We all know that, we all live that every damn day. I’ve got 3 old fucks trying to fuck up and take away my VA healthcare. And right now I need that desperately. No one here is saying that because he got brain cancer and died that everything he’s done since he could pee in a toilet by himself is forgiven. No one is saying that he’s a saint. No one is saying that we should be like him. We are saying, be fucking better. Have some respect. He gave respect to those he opposed. That’s what he was supposed to do. That’s what we are supposed to do. Yes he gave us SP. Yes he was a republican. And yes the republicans have turned that into a fucking disaster. But the man served his country, when he could have gotten away with not doing that. I spent a couple of months in the navy hospital with a bunch of guys that were massively mentally and some physically fucked by that war, some of whom I doubt ever recovered. He went through far worse and for a lot longer. He should have been dead by the end of his first day. But he was still here 50 yrs later. And no this did not earn back all those decades. But he has earned one fucking day. Just one fucking day, the day he died, he earned that, for those 5 yrs if nothing more.

    Damn it I’m done with this. I gave him his day, you all do what the fuck ever you want.

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    patrick II says:

    Joe’s approval rating was down to 39% last I looked.

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    Betty Cracker says:

    @piratedan: Interesting. I saw somewhere — CNN maybe? — that Cindy McCain is thought to be the front runner. Sounds like the best case scenario.

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    Mnemosyne says:


    It seems weird to me that people are complaining that the death of one of the most famous politicians in America and the presidential runner-up in 2008 is getting a lot of attention. I mean, I’m sure the hagiography on the cable channels where McCain was a star is getting pretty intense, but I haven’t seen any of that here.

    I wasn’t saying much because (for once!) I didn’t have much to say. I didn’t hate him but I didn’t love him. I hope his family has good memories of their time with him. That’s about all I’ve got.

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    Jay says:


    I came to bury Ceasar, not praise him,

    Yes, and no.

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    Viva BrisVegas says:


    I hope his family has good memories of their time with him.

    Which family? He had two, and the first he treated very shabbily.

    As to only saying nice things about the dead, that goes for family. For public figures the immediate hagiographies are the just the first steps in rewriting history. Without some push back, you end up with reprobates like Reagan getting beatified as Saint Ronaldus.

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    Bruce K says:

    I, for one, will not add to what I had to say of the man during his life, with one exception:

    Screw cancer.

    That is all.

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    Hermann Fegelein says:

    Right now McCain is looking up at all of us and smiling.

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    Ken says:

    I was vaguely hoping that McCain would deliver one final FU to Trump. Something along the lines of “Due to what has happened to the party I once loved, I can no longer identify as a Republican and am joining the Democratic party and caucus.” Then, if my understanding of Arizona law is right, the governor would have to appoint a Democrat.

    I guess there’s still time for a video recording to be released.

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    L85NJGT says:

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:

    John McCain’s legacy represents an unparalleled example of human decency and American service. As an intern, I learned a lot about the power of humanity in government through his deep friendship with Sen. Kennedy. He meant so much, to so many. My prayers are with his family.

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    sdhays says:


    I mean, just tonight, I discussed crapping on the president’s face and vomiting on his grave. I can assure you that those things won’t happen, either.

    You disappoint me.

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    cmorenc says:

    @Mike J:

    If he had won and died a few years earlier, we would have had President Sarah Palin. You do have to wonder how it would compare to Trump.

    One difference is that Sarah Palin would have had a much better view of Russia than Trump. *ta dum*

  89. 89
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I am sitting in a hotel breakfast room weeping into my coffee over this story. Dang it, Adam!

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    Gelfling 545 says:

    @PaulWartenberg: I always felt that in 28 he placed himself in the hands of people who said in essence “if you want the nomination you have to do things our way” which got him the nomination but cost him the election and a lot of his reputation. In other words, the GOP base isn’t everybody.

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    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Gelfling 545: 2008. Damn the virtual keyboard.

  92. 92
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: What ails that person?

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    Mnemosyne says:

    @Viva BrisVegas:

    Without some push back, you end up with reprobates like Reagan getting beatified as Saint Ronaldus.

    That’s … not how that happened. It’s not like Reagan was universally reviled and then was rehabbed after his death. His fans were always powerful and they blanketed the media with stories about him during his two terms and also after he was out of office. Countering that myth was almost impossible because both Republicans and the media repeated it ad nauseum during his lifetime.

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    azlib says:

    I think one of the better descriptions of McCain was here: https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2018/Senate/Maps/Aug26.html#item-1

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    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @patrick II:

    Instead of John doing the right ting and letting the voters decide now he played sneaky partisan one last time

    From what I’ve read, it might have been a decision based on a harm reduction approach. He likely discussed who his replacement wishes with the governor, (some say his wife) hoping for a saner Republican appointee than those running right now. There are more than a couple of raging nut-job Republicans running or threatening to run right now who could have a chance of picking up the seat in a special. Maybe he hoped for the best, wanted to be able to vote in the Senate until the end, and also avoid a Kelli Ward or Joe Arpaio highjack.

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    something fabulous says:

    @ruemara: GARLIC BISCUITS

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    Paul Waterhouse says:

    thank you adam, i thought that was quite nice

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    azlib says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:
    As I understood the politics, if McCain had resigned before a certain date then their would be a special election. It is likely either Ward or Arpaio would have switched to run in the newly vacated seat which sets up a situation where two hard right Republicans would win the nomination for the McCain and Flake seats. They both could easily have lost to a Dem and AZ could have ended up with two Dem senators. In the current scenario Ward and Arpaio split the hard right vote and McSally gets the nod. She is a much more viable and formidable candidate against any Dem in this state. Ducey then gets to appoint a Republican to McCain’s vacated seat. Rumor has it he would like to appoint himself, but that has a very bad look politically. I suspect he will appoint a caretaker to the position.

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