Right on Schedule: The Next Phase of the Bust Out

The Republicans are like the mafia, but less subtle:

CNBC’s John Harwood: You were, during the Obama administration, a big critic of rising levels of national debt. We see the deficit going up to $1 trillion next year, debt levels are rising. About the tax cut: Did you guys go about it the wrong way?

Rep. Steve Stivers: I don’t think we did. I think you’ll see the economic growth will actually reduce the deficit a bit from the projected levels. And I think there’s still an opportunity to continue that growth.

Harwood: No misgivings about a tax cut that was not paid for, that’s allowing debt and deficits to rise like it is now?

Stivers: I do think we need to deal with our some of our spending. We’ve got to try to figure out how to spend less.

Harwood: Entitlements? Social Security, Medicare?

Stivers: Yeah, I mean, what I think we need to do is get some people who are now on government programs jobs, we have more open jobs than we have people on unemployment. So if we could get people to go from unemployment, or a government program, to become a taxpayer, it’s a twofer because not only are they getting less government assistance, they probably have a better life economically and they’re actually paying taxes.

Blow up the budget with massive tax cuts to the rich, then use the budget deficits as a pretext to rob more from the poors. Good work if you can get it.

And you thought the re-emergence of Ron Fournier and the no labels motherfuckers was just a coincidence. How long before we’re hearing from Evan Bayh and they’re rolling out the rancid corpse of David Broder?






130 replies
  1. 1
    NotMax says:

    As predictable as a cock crow at dawn.

  2. 2

    Gee, thanks for credulously teeing that one right up, Harwood.

  3. 3
    p.a. says:

    The only question is, are the brain dead base goobers who fall for this every. fucking. time. reproducing sufficiently? Or is sanity making headway 1 funeral at a time?

  4. 4
    low-tech cyclist says:

    Stivers is hardly the first GOPer this year to mention cutting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. I certainly hope the Dems have all the relevant quotes in hand, because they should start running ads NOW about the GOP wanting to cut these programs to pay for their big tax cuts for the rich.

    Ads like that should write themselves, and would make a dent in their support among retirees, which would turn November into a rout.

  5. 5
    Mom Says I*m Handsome says:

    From the great Jim Hightower: “There’s nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and dead armadillos.”

  6. 6
    rikyrah says:

    Nobody is buying this bullshyt, Cole.

    Uh uh

    Them is fighting words.
    Time to take a 2 x 4 to them.

  7. 7
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @rikyrah: Please.

    Clue by four.

  8. 8
    MattF says:

    Well, a huge tax cut for the oligarchy that results in huge stock buy-backs is a novel variation on the theme. Trickle-up economics, except… it’s not just a trickle.

  9. 9
    MJS says:

    Bush the lesser’s popularity started to tumble right around the time he started spouting off about Social Security, so please proceed, Republicans.

  10. 10
    Betty Cracker says:

    Kinda OT but fits under “Republican Crime Syndicate” tag:

    Buckle-up, buttercups!

  11. 11
    Derelict says:

    Sad thing is, even if everyone on “welfare” got a job, the deficit would still be skyrocketing.
    Oh! I see what he’s angling for here. Gotta get those lazy-ass retirees out working so they don’t need their Social Security or Medicare anymore! Tossing the olds into the street should just about cover those tax cuts!

  12. 12
    A Ghost To Most says:

    So many lamp posts, so little rope.

    In other news, I found out today that my homeowner’s insurance won’t cover my foundation if it is damaged when Denver Water lays a 54″ water main 15 feet from my house in a month or two.
    So I got that to look forward to.

  13. 13
    lamh36 says:

    Evening peeps…

    I see SMH… the media still really trying to push Melania as more than just a trophy head FLOTUS? Talking bout “Be Best” and against cyberbullying, when she shares a damn house with the perpatrator in chief…

    oh and her first solo trip is to Africa…

  14. 14
    TenguPhule says:

    @p.a.:

    The only question is, are the brain dead base goobers who fall for this every. fucking. time. reproducing sufficiently?

    Why do you think they want to ban birth control?

  15. 15
    TenguPhule says:

    I think we need to pry Social Security and Medicare from Steve Stivers cold dead hands.

  16. 16
    TenguPhule says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    So many lamp posts, so little rope.

    We can double the load and make it up in volume!

  17. 17
    kindness says:

    Blowing up the deficit is a gold plated feature, not a bug of the tax plan Republicans crafted. Exactly so they could in the next breath demand cuts to Social Security, MadiCare & MediCaid.

    Soul-less bastards that they are.

  18. 18
    Mnemosyne says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    Shouldn’t Denver Water’s insurance cover it if they do the damage? I don’t know how hard you guys get screwed by your local government, though.

  19. 19
    catclub says:

    @Betty Cracker: I think it was acomment at LGM about Cohen’s $20M loan fraud that pointed out that if they could enforce white collar crime statutes, every other white collar businessman would be in prison.

    I bet a close look at 100 loan applications find 500 cases of fraud, if you are looking that carefully.
    (The example I know about is that virtually everyone who applies for a mortgage and gets ‘help’ from their parents, probably lies about that help.
    Either not mentioning the asset if it is a gift, and not mentioning the liability if it is a loan.)

  20. 20
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @TenguPhule:
    We need to ramp up the hemp farms.

  21. 21
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: Please let him be found guilty on the majority of counts.

  22. 22
    catclub says:

    @kindness: It would be funny if Harwood had said “So, cuts to the Defense Department?” and Stiver corrected him, “No, Cuts to SS and medicare.”

  23. 23
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Stivers: Yeah, I mean, what I think we need to do is get some people who are now on government programs jobs, we have more open jobs than we have people on unemployment. So if we could get people to go from unemployment, or a government program, to become a taxpayer, it’s a twofer because not only are they getting less government assistance, they probably have a better life economically and they’re actually paying taxes.

    UI only last six months dummy butt.

    I honest to god find Conservatives like listening to Communists – “In theory”, life isn’t a fraken though experiment, it’s here and now so what what works?

  24. 24
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    You would think so, but no. I went to the planning commission and asked that very question (on the public record), and they said no, our homeowners would cover it. Insurance agent says hell no.

    At least I got it on record in a public meeting. Time to talk to a lawyer.

    ETA: #PipelineIsComing!

  25. 25
    daryljfontaine says:

    @lamh36: Someone should inform ICE about a system-dodging illegal immigrant attempting to re-enter the country after a trip to some questionable locations.

    D

  26. 26
    catclub says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Also, anyone who is working the low salary range has about zero federal
    income tax rate – up to about $40k/yr. So no income into the federal coffers from that. Less outgo, and SS payments in, as a plus.

  27. 27
    john fremont says:

    And in a few weeks Trump right on schedule will forget or gaslight on his campaign promises not to touch Social Security and Medicare.

  28. 28

    @catclub:

    anyone who is working the low salary range has about zero federal
    income tax rate

    The tax rate at that range is either 10 or 12%.

    ETA: The effective tax rate would probably be 5% to 10%.

  29. 29
    Mandalay says:

    OT: Ruh-roh…

    The Trump administration rejected a proposal from the Turkish government that would free a detained American pastor in exchange for relief of one of its largest banks, The Wall Street Journal reported.

    The report, which cites a senior White House official, said Turkey asked the U.S. to drop an ongoing investigation into Halkbank, one of the biggest state-owned Turkish banks. Halkbank faces major fines for allegedly violating U.S. sanctions on Iran….

    A White House official said other issues concerning U.S.-Turkey relations will not be discussed until after Brunson is released…

    In that case I guess the Trump Administration won’t be discussing an attack on our embassy in Ankara this morning…

    An unidentified gunman fired six shots at the US Embassy in Ankara, Turkey, early Monday morning local time. No one was injured in the shooting, but the incident has shaken up both countries, which are engaged in a bitter diplomatic fight over a detained US pastor.

    The Ankara governor’s office said a gunman fired from a moving car around 5:30 am local time, with bullets hitting the iron gate and window wall. A bullet also struck the security guard booth, the Washington Post reports. The embassy was closed at the time, and it’s not clear who the perpetrators might be.

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:

    @catclub:

    Definitely not zero — when I was making under $40K, I was not getting refunded all of my withholding, by a pretty large margin. Bill is probably right that it’s a 10 or 12 percent rate.

    It may be different for people making less than $40K who have kids or mortgages, but not for people who don’t have big deduction items like that.

  31. 31
    gene108 says:

    we have more open jobs than we have people on unemployment.

    So the economy’s really strong, and you, will make it stronger because of your tax cuts, even though there are not enough people to fill all the jobs.

    Why can’t reporters figure out these flaws in logic in real time?

  32. 32
    Mnemosyne says:

    @JPL:

    IIRC, what lawyers generally seem to say is that a quick decision is usually in the defendant’s favor, and more drawn-out decisions usually mean at least a few guilty verdicts. We shall see.

  33. 33
    SFAW says:

    Stivers: … we have more open jobs than we have people on unemployment.

    Ooh, it’s make-up-a-“fact” Monday! Can I play?

    That motherfucker should be forced to look for a job that he CAN’T get through his grifting connections. He’ll see how fucking easy it is to get a job that doesn’t pay shit wages — if you don’t have the EXACT skill set that the Jaahhb Creators are looking for.

    I also don’t think the position of “Professional Asshole” pays that much. And if all Stivers’s fellow Traitors were joining him in that job search, there’s be a glut of them on the market, and the wages might drop to minimum.

  34. 34
    Mandalay says:

    @A Ghost To Most: I live in Florida and every ****ing month I get a scary letter from the water company telling me I should buy insurance to cover any issues associated with water supply problems on my property. Presumably they get a slice of the action if I buy a policy, but maybe they have a point?…

  35. 35
    PST says:

    Trump’s tweet about John Dean really highlighted the way he views the world the way a mafia don does. Among those who place all value on loyalty and personal relationships rather than open processes and the rule of law, John Dean is indeed a “RAT” instead of someone who redeemed himself by coming clean and exposing crime.

  36. 36
    Ruckus says:

    @catclub:
    There will be taxes on that 20-40K if they have their way, because Fanny Adams knows that you can’t have those morons in government putting conservative judges in place if you don’t pay them to do that. Hell they’d have taxes on those massive welfare payments. And the wealthy can’t pay taxes because then they couldn’t hide as much of their money in offshore accounts so it has to be made up somewhere. And where better than those welfare and SS cheats, you know the old farts who won’t be able to work or even get hired when they have to go back to work because SS is cut from it’s unimaginable massive amounts to fucking zip. (Why yes I’m thinking that working past 70+ might just be a tad fucked, why do you ask? Oh and BTW, try looking for a job in your late 50s/early 60s, unless you are an executive with an extensive CV)

  37. 37
    A Ghost To Most says:

    This is a mammoth water pipe (54″), buried 14 feet deep 15 feet from my foundation, by contractors.

    What could go wrong?

  38. 38
    The Dangerman says:

    @gene108:

    ….we have more open jobs than we have people on unemployment.

    Good jobs? Or Fast Food or Mall jobs?

    @A Ghost To Most:

    This is a mammoth water pipe (54″), buried 14 feet deep 15 feet from my foundation, by contractors.

    Any willow trees nearby?

  39. 39
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Betty Cracker: That’s 6:15pm eastern time, right?

    If I had to guess, we’re getting conviction on some counts and acquittal on others. I can’t imagine this kind of delay going for complete acquittal or conviction at this point.

  40. 40
    hueyplong says:

    @Mandalay: The tell is the statement that the insurance being offered is not regulated.

    Not regulated = undesirable.

  41. 41
    JPL says:

    @PST: trump wants to president of Russia He’s not even sure the Fed should act independently.

  42. 42
    Ruckus says:

    @gene108:

    Why can’t reporters figure out these flaws in logic in real time?

    1. Because they don’t want to.
    2. Because they aren’t capable to.
    3. Because they aren’t paid to.
    4. Because they are paid not to.

  43. 43

    @The Dangerman: IMHO, we should be aiming to make the jobs we have into good jobs, even the fast food and mall jobs.

  44. 44
    RedDirtGirl says:

    @rikyrah: I just saw a tee-shirt that said:
    Somebody Needs A High Five…
    …To The Face, With A Chair.

  45. 45
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @gene108: @The Dangerman: The thing that always bugs me is this insistence that “We have 500k open jobs and 1 million people on unemployment, therefore 500k people should go work on those jobs!”.

    It ignores skills, seniority, and literally the most important: location. If all the jobs are in California, everyone in Indiana is fucked unless they abandon the state… which they don’t have money to do. And it’s not like Home Depot in Sacramento is going to pay relocation costs for a $15/hr managerial job to some dude from Indiana when they can pay someone local to do it instead.

  46. 46
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @RedDirtGirl: “So much for the peaceful, tolerant left!” says every idiot on Reddit. Sigh.

  47. 47
    EBT says:

    Considering my disability this is always the kinda talk I get scared hearing.

  48. 48
    The Dangerman says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    …good jobs, even the fast food and mall jobs.

    No argument here. Unfortunately, right now, those aren’t good jobs. And don’t even get me started with something like Walmart, who plays some ugly games with their employees.

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    I’m no Evan Bayh fan, but what did he do to be treated like Ron Fournier?

  50. 50
    PJ says:

    @MisterForkbeard: It also turns out that unemployed Americans aren’t too enthused about doing tedious, grueling work for $9.60/hr, which is why the Maryland crabbing industry is not doing too well since Trump took away their seasonal work visas: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/17/feature/trump-changed-a-seasonal-worker-program-now-marylands-crab-houses-are-losing-business/?utm_term=.50d63eedf889

  51. 51
    randy khan says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    If I had to guess, we’re getting conviction on some counts and acquittal on others. I can’t imagine this kind of delay going for complete acquittal or conviction at this point.

    18 counts, a lot of documentary exhibits, and so far somewhere around 25 hours total of deliberations. It’s kind of about as much time as it probably takes to go through everything carefully. I’m not sure you can draw too many conclusions about what they’re likely to do.

  52. 52
    Mathguy says:

    The thing that pisses me off in that interview is that a-hole Harwood using the term “entitlements.” It’s social insurance, but the freaking GOP has twisted that beyond recognition, and all the MSM yahoos go along for the ride, because it won’t affect them.

  53. 53
    Calouste says:

    @gene108: Reporters are people who are too bad at logic to even become lawyers.

  54. 54
    Brachiator says:

    @catclub:

    Also, anyone who is working the low salary range has about zero federal
    income tax rate – up to about $40k/yr. So no income into the federal coffers from that.

    This is not true, even with Trump tax cuts. And tax owed depends on filing status.

  55. 55
    geg6 says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Don’t know about where you live but my senator, Bob Casey, has been hammering at this from the get go. Same with Conor Lamb.

  56. 56
    Aleta says:

    @Mom Says I*m Handsome:
    Dead skunk in the middle of the road

  57. 57
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @randy khan: Good point. Maybe my “We’re getting SOMETHING” is just wishful thinking.

    @PJ: The perennial problem of jobs, yep. Weren’t there some studies done that found that most out-of-work americans wouldn’t take work at farms (planting, harvesting) even at $15/hr because it was difficult, hot, and ‘below them’?

  58. 58
    NotoriousJRT says:

    @p.a.:
    I see a bunch of young goobers out there, too.

  59. 59
    trollhattan says:

    O/T so it looks like a cat caused the Genoa bridge collapse. You can see the guilty little bastard slinking off at the end of this CCTV video. Typical.

  60. 60
    Steeplejack says:

    @Ruckus:

    Oh and BTW, try looking for a job in your late 50s/​early 60s, unless you are an executive with an extensive CV.

    Agreed. My own slide into semi- and now pretty much full retirement was accelerated by ageism—pretty much rampant in the software field—and the recurring theme of: “You don’t have the four years’ experience with ZoomWorks 9000 that we’re looking for.” “Uh, ZoomWorks 9000 has only been out for two years.” “But still . . .”

    ETA: I staved it off for a long time by working as a solo consultant/​contractor—I still have a few lingering clients that I do maintenance work for—but it became harder and harder to find “right-sized” projects in my niche.

  61. 61
    trollhattan says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    I assume the Earned Income Tax Credit muddies things but it’s hard to envision a wage-earner paying nothing in federal income tax. And they pay FICA no matter what, which is a chunk.

  62. 62
    Brachiator says:

    So if we could get people to go from unemployment, or a government program, to become a taxpayer

    So much bullshit to unpack here. Unemployment compensation is taxable. I don’t even know what he means by “government program,” which includes programs for children.

    But clearly these people see any version of a social safety net as parasites feeding on “productive” citizens.

  63. 63
    Chris T. says:

    @Derelict: Hey, don’t forget those lazy six-month-olds just slurping down formula with their food-stamp money! They could be working in the coal mines!

    What’s that? No coal mines left? OK, then, they could all be digging new coal mines!

  64. 64
    randy khan says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Good point. Maybe my “We’re getting SOMETHING” is just wishful thinking.

    I do feel like the jury being careful is a positive indicator, but we’ll see.

  65. 65
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Ryan must be ecstatic. He finally gets to push the granny over the cliff as he’s been wanting to do since he was a wee lad.

  66. 66
    Brachiator says:

    @trollhattan:
    The Earned Income Tax Credit is a pittance for single people, and may not eliminate tax for married people without children.

    Also, a low income self- employed person will still get hit with SE tax on earnings.

  67. 67
    Millard Filmore says:

    The thing that pisses me off in that interview is that a-hole Harwood using the term “entitlements.”

    Why yes, I am entitled to my own money. Why do you ask?

    [edit. dang! this comment lost who I was replying to, mathguy.]

  68. 68
    Tim C. says:

    @gene108: The reporters, like pretty much every single Republican simply can’t grasp even the most basic features of macroeconomics. When they say “The market” and “getting off welfare” They are operating in a belief that every single poor person is poor only because of their own immoral choices. That’s it. Rich people are more morally virtuous and poors deserve it. That’s what they all think down deep, it’s the core of the conservative belief and it’s a constant going back to at least before the Roman Republic. So all this talk of deficits and budgets and everything to them is just window dressing on that absolute moral truth for them.

  69. 69
    Martin says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Need to point out that he’s talking about getting jobs for people on entitlement programs. The two biggest are SS and Medicare, so kicking people out of retirement and back into the workforce.

  70. 70
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Mathguy: Democrats should be running on this threat to “entitlements” and paint Republicans as coldhearted bastards who could give a dang about the average American. I recall that the Bush administration wanted to turn Social Security into a private pool but the backlash ended that nonsense.

  71. 71
    burnspbesq says:

    I’d rather hear from Susan Bayh than from Evan. She’s a very conventional big-business Republican (worked for Ted Olson at Gibson Dunn), but she is way smarter than he is.

  72. 72
    burnspbesq says:

    What is this “click to edit” gizmo sitting in my comment?

  73. 73
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Remember when Trump asked Black people what we had to lose? Now we know.

  74. 74
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Tim C.:

    Rich people are more morally virtuous and poors deserve it.

    This is why monetization of the press is such an awful idea. When your reporters and anchors are all stupidly rich, they want to believe they deserve it much more than the guy working 60+ hours a week but who only makes $15/hr. But in fact, most ‘reporters’ can’t find their ass with both hands and constantly infringe on the ethics and training that’s supposed to make them valuable.

    @burnspbesq: Legends say that if you click on that gizmo, you can edit your comment.

  75. 75
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    Sorry for the O/T, but I just saw this on my FB feed. Is this getting any attention in Georgia?

    Majority-black county in Georgia planning to close 7 of 9 polling places when @staceyabrams running to become first black female governor. @LawyersComm & @ACLUofGA now threatening to sue https://t.co/uJNAyxESWa— Ari Berman (@AriBerman) August 20, 2018

  76. 76
    Zinsky says:

    The sad part, Cole, is the m*therf*ckers do it to us every four years and a good portion of the American public get duped every time into thinking the GOP is the party of fiscal probity and prudence. It is infuriating!

  77. 77
    Brachiator says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Remember when Trump asked Black people what we had to lose? Now we know.

    Trump is coming after poor and middle class white people, too.

    And, as noted by others here, seniors without fat private pensions and those on Medicare are also thieving parasites stealing from the more deserving among us.

  78. 78
    debbie says:

    Stivers is from Ohio and he is a GOP whore. He likes to wrap himself up in his Military Service, but he is as craven as any of them. Just seeing his name makes me as cranky as raven. Fuck Stivers.

  79. 79
    Ruckus says:

    @MisterForkbeard:
    I had an entire book written but the more I wrote the more I got pissed at fucking republicans. Selfish cocksuckers. If they had any grasp of reality…. Why do we talk about them like they might just at some time give a fuck? They obviously don’t, they obviously won’t and they obviously can’t. They need to just go the way of the Whigs.

  80. 80
    TenguPhule says:

    @Chris T.:

    They could be working in the coal mines!

    Tradtionally the children were sent into gold and silver mines.

  81. 81
    Brachiator says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    This is why monetization of the press is such an awful idea.

    Publishers tend to be rich. And reporters and editors are creatures of the owners no matter how much they make in salary.

    And with newspapers dying, you are not looking at tons of millionaire reporters. Hell, you never were.

  82. 82
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t even know what he means by “government program,” which includes programs for children.

    Food stamps.

  83. 83
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Ruckus: Yeah. I’m not going to pretend that Dems are perfect or that literally everything we want is the BEST solution.

    But holy hell, our programs stand up. They work decently well, they make logical sense, and are designed to work with reality rather than ignoring it.

  84. 84
    PIGL says:

    @Major Major Major Major: “Hello, Harwood”. Funny how that name makes me think we could use Konrad and his mad, inimitable, skillz.

  85. 85
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Brachiator: The “reporters” in this case are the ones that set the tone for public coverage and get regular access. Who are invariably idiots like Chuck Todd and who are all certainly millionaires. Most reporters who write for a living or do actual investigative work are pretty solidly middle class, if that.

  86. 86
  87. 87
    JPL says:

    @debbie: Kemp is trying to say he is for keeping open all the precincts, although it is known that he was the one who recommended a consultant to close the precincts. Since he is Secretary of State, he has already purged 600,000 voters.

  88. 88
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Betty Cracker: Update on this: Jurors are breaking for today. So no headline or news tonight.

  89. 89

    @Martin:

    Need to point out that he’s talking about getting jobs for people on entitlement programs. The two biggest are SS and Medicare, so kicking people out of retirement and back into the workforce.

    This is a very good point

    @MisterForkbeard:

    But in fact, most ‘reporters’ can’t find their ass with both hands

    You mean like this fella who couldn’t point out the above very good point?

  90. 90
    debbie says:

    @catclub:

    This is not at all correct. I’ve spent my life filing as a single payer. There have been years where I made less than $40,000 and I very definitely had to pay taxes. I may have gotten a partial refund on withheld/estimated taxes, but I still paid taxes.

  91. 91
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    That is an outrage. I hope the ACLU follows up and sues.

  92. 92
    Ruckus says:

    @Steeplejack:
    I’m very lucky in some ways and not so much in others.
    I have blue collar job skills and a long experience at them, and they are still sellable skills. Finding a decent job with a good boss, that was not even my doing, my cousin did that. Good man he is. Anyway…. The problem is that it’s physical and mental work and that physical stuff gets harder and harder by the day. We had a discussion here once about farm jobs and I mentioned that my parents stopped at a cotton field when I was 7-8 yrs old and we picked cotton for a bit. Fuck that’s hard work, the kind of work I’d suggest for my worst enemy. (had cancer, not for my worst enemy) Anyway…. I’m thinking it’s possible I may make it another 1 1/2 yrs working, as long as it’s not too many days a week. But fucking damn, I’ve been earning money and paying SS for 56 yrs now, what the fuck more do I need to do to be able to rest a bit, fucking die?

  93. 93
    debbie says:

    @Brachiator:

    They’re raising the standard deduction from $6,000 to $12,000. At the same time, they’ve taken away that exemption thing (where you could claim $4,000 for yourself and each of your dependents). They’ve also temporarily taken away the $1,600+ deduction for being blind/over 65. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but I will have slightly less deductions this year compared to last.

  94. 94
    The Ancient Randonneur says:

    Congressman John Lewis is my hero. (No, I’m not crying!)

  95. 95
    JPL says:

    @debbie: They are involved. It’s a small county but on the local news an elderly white woman was appalled that some might not be able to vote because of this

  96. 96
    JPL says:

    All presidents receive intelligence updates, and it appears that trump, being the tiny man that he is, tried to block the former President from receiving them

  97. 97
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    Thanks. I can knock that one outrage off my very long list of current outrages.

  98. 98
    Ruckus says:

    @Tim C.:
    BrafuckingO
    THIS!
    I’ve been saying this for a long time and I often get some pushback but this is conservatism and has been since there were at least two people, and a common language to discuss politics with. And of course with 2 or more people, you’d have politics to discuss. And that common language isn’t always a help. For example see any conservative today and try and discuss politics.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Ancient Randonneur:

    I’m not crying, you’re crying! 😭

  101. 101

    @Ruckus: Remember the Republican health care plan(don’t get sick and if you do die quickly), their retirement plan is similar; don’t get old and if you do die quickly and quietly.

  102. 102
    Ruckus says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    The answer to shitgibbon’s question on what to lose, especially for minorities is very simple.
    Fucking Everything.
    It runs from there to old white guys, for which the answer is:
    Almost Fucking Everything.
    It depends on how much money you have to purchase that little bit left from him and his friends.
    There is a reason why most rethuglicans are not distancing themselves from him or standing against him and that is they agree with him.

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    Steeplejack says:

    @Sab:

    Either this is (a) epic humor fail or (b) you need to get a snark detector made sometime after 1950.

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    Mike in NC says:

    @JPL: Maybe at his next Nuremberg-style rally, Trump can goose his poll numbers by asserting that “loyal” FBI agents have determined beyond question that Barack Obama was, in fact, a Kenyan-born Muslim and Rep. Devin Nunes will be tasked with launching an investigation.

    This was a good Monday. The mail brought “Everything Trump Touches Dies”, which I will be happy to share with several neighbors. Also got a package of weed from my brother, which I will share with absolutely nobody.

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    Steeplejack says:

    @Ruckus:

    The mental work gets harder too. Everyone likes to think that they remain mentally sharp as they get older, but there is a level of fatigue that creeps in. Maybe it’s just getting tired of doing the same thing over and over, not seeing any “new” problems—or not wanting to. Just a feeling of “I’ve done this enough.”

  106. 106
    Sloegin says:

    The next general election is probably the best opportunity in years for the Dems to get out of the game of ‘fix everything the Rs just trashed then get voted out because you responsibly cut all the programs everyone depends on’.
    Ds need to campaign on CANCELLING the R tax cut. Sure the R’s will scream and howl about ‘the yuuuugest’ tax hike in history, but this time instead of just shrugging, Ds can run with ‘cancelling an unpopular tax cut to save medicare and SS’. Seems like a no brainer?

  107. 107
    Ruckus says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
    Yes, I remember.
    And it’s making me revert to my language when in the navy.
    My writing is going to look like this. Probably for the rest of my life.
    And fuck it’s going to fucking make me fucking revert to my fucking language when in the fucking god damn fucking navy.
    And I’m an atheist, so there is no god to damn the fucking navy

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    Millard Filmore says:

    @Steeplejack:

    Maybe it’s just getting tired of doing the same thing over and over

    As a computer programmer that has hit the big 65, this sums up my attitude. I am fixing the same type of bugs now that were a problem when I started. Programming has been a thing for about 50 years. Languages and tools should be a whole lot more advanced by this time.

  109. 109
    Ruckus says:

    @Steeplejack:
    I would have written about the mental issues if they hadn’t caught up to me and made me forget to fucking write about them.
    But yes, on a more serious note, while your experience and expertise may work in a lot of situations, your capacity for looking at things in new and differing ways suffers, from a little to a lot. I sometimes get caught looking at a print and seeing about 95% of it, missing just enough that if I don’t verify what I think I see, I’ll scrap a part. But a good thing about where we work is that that boss not only encourages this he demands it. It’s saved him quite a bit of money from mistakes that all of us would have made. Including him.

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    smintheus says:

    Shorter Steve Stivers:

    “It’s good when the rich pay less in taxes. It’s even better when the poor pay more in taxes. I call that a twofer.”

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    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Sloegin: The problem with this approach is that Dems CAN’T fix this stuff in 2018. We just won’t have enough people to overrule Trump’s veto even in the best possible case where we win every single senate seat.

    So if we promise this now and then spend the next two years stalemating him, then some (idiot) voters will be annoyed that we didn’t fix it, and both parties are the same, etc.

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    Brachiator says:

    @debbie:

    They’re raising the standard deduction from $6,000 to $12,000

    Yep. I’m in the tax biz, so I gotta keep up with this.

    Higher standard deduction and elimination of the personal exemptions. They did NOT eliminate the additional standard deduction for those over 65 or blind.

    Even with the higher standard deduction, many lower income people will still end up paying more.

    Looking at what they’ve done, you can see where they could have done more for the poor and middle class, but instead deliberately gave more breaks to the rich.

  113. 113
    Ruckus says:

    @Millard Filmore:
    Is part of this that the hardware has been increasing at such a rate that the programing to keep up with it just never gets really completed before it has to start all over again?
    I was programing machine tools in 1973, to cut 3D cavities, by paper/pencil, logs and slide rule. Now the major software package is all 3D solid modeling, 30+ yrs old and has had so many revisions that no one would recognize the first release.

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    smintheus says:

    @Sloegin: Dems should run on expanding the things they support because they work, and cutting back the things Republicans support because they don’t work. In other words, forcing the Republicans to make compromises on their preferred policies to fix all the problems they created, and making no compromises on Democrat’s preferred policies because our own polices fix rather than break things.

  115. 115
    Ruckus says:

    @Brachiator:
    I may end up paying less if I’m understanding correctly. But then I am an old white man. Did they get in there that a black person has the old standard deduction? I would have expected that. Even if there’s no way to tell your skin color on the form, which I would have expected to change as well.
    These are evil motherfuckers, they are. VDE seems to have the workable idea to fix this.

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    trollhattan says:

    @Sab:
    He knows what he did!

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    Brachiator says:

    @Sloegin:

    but this time instead of just shrugging, Ds can run with ‘cancelling an unpopular tax cut to save medicare and SS’. Seems like a no brainer?

    You can’t just call for cancelling the tax cuts. You must preserve and expand middle class tax cuts, and breaks for the poor.

    Some progressives will fight you on this, because they want higher tax rates on everyone in order to fund a generous social safety net system, but have not thought through the essentials.

    @MisterForkbeard: Yeah, the Dems can’t fix it in 2018, but they may get some compromises if they win big in the midterms and are ready for 2020.

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    Emma says:

    @The Ancient Randonneur: Dammit. We need to figure out how to clone that man’s character and inject some of the both-sides mealymouthed jackasses.

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    debbie says:

    @Brachiator:

    They did NOT eliminate the additional standard deduction for those over 65 or blind.

    I think it was you who told me this before. I read the House and Senate’s joint explanatory statement on the tax changes which included the compromise agreement. Did they make additional changes later?

  120. 120
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    Did they get in there that a black person has the old standard deduction?

    No. An old black man and old white man can be on equal footing with respect to taxes.

    However, many undocumented people who file taxes have been reduced to a lower caste. They cannot receive some credits that other taxpayers get. The net effect is to make these people easier to exploit and to drive them into the underground economy, and then try to deport them because “they don’t pay taxes.”

    More should be written about this, but it’s subtle and people are encouraged to disdain the undocumented.

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    Millard Filmore says:

    @Ruckus: A large part of my annoyance is the lack of comments in code. Take a look at Linux kernel code, for instance. Due to the nature of the industry where I work, there is a lot of C and C++ programming. Most development work is done by: write the code, see if it breaks. Then do that some more. Where I work, the CPU instruction set has not changed very much. The last big step was the introduction of the PUSH and POP instruction that made stacks easy.

    There are some very nice C++ libraries, like BOOST and ACE, that would make the project design much more elegant, but sheesh. You would need a senior C++ architect to put that together. You have heard the warnings about giving software types a hammer and screwdriver, yes? The same thing applies to hardware types writing code. Do a x100 if these hardware types create a C++ package.

    I am getting old. All this should be a lot easier by now.

  122. 122
    Brachiator says:

    @debbie:

    Did they make additional changes later?

    Yep.

    The IRS is encouraging people to double check their withholding to try to make sure that the new tax law is taken into account. There’s info on the IRS website. However, this can be complicated for some tax situations.

    This filing season will be messy for many. The rich will be very happy.

  123. 123
    Brachiator says:

    @debbie:

    Standard Deduction Amounts. The standard deduction amounts will increase to $12,000 for individuals, $18,000 for heads of household, and $24,000 for married couples filing jointly and surviving spouses. For 2018, the additional standard deduction amount for the aged or the blind is $1,300.

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    debbie says:

    @Brachiator:

    Okay, thanks for this info. I’ll take a look at the site.

    ETA: And again thanks on the specifics. AARP must have gone all vicious on them!

  125. 125
    Aleta says:

    @Brachiator: Once again they’re pasting a few words together as bait TV viewers can grab, think “oh Republicans have a good alternative” to the system they want to dismantle, and change the channel. There’s no plan they actually believe in or even in existence. The amount of time they spent thinking about this consisted of inviting CEOs to line up and be applauded as they say “McWonderful Mart pledges to hire and train.” Who doesn’t want free positive TV for your business before you’ve even done anything?

    Or maybe I’m wrong, maybe that was the evidence for their job creation numbers.

    Reminds me of the hardworking Mnuchin’s non-release of promised plans and information he never bothered to do for real.

  126. 126
    Ruckus says:

    @Millard Filmore:
    I started as an apprentice in 1962. I was 12. The machine tools I use most of the time have not changed with the exception of electronic readouts for positioning. And we had those 25 yrs ago. There are machine tools that didn’t exist in 1962 we have 4 of them, but I had 4 of them in 1990. Not as nice or powerful as today’s machines but they did the same work. A big precision tool maker that’s been around since the late 1800s has one of the same machines that I did, a 1990 model. The have a current version of the same model and one about half the age in the middle. Same work, same precision, oldest 8 hrs to make a part, middle, same part 4 hrs and newest, same part 1 hr. All of that is computing power and software (OK knowledge and experience too) Machining is like that all the way through the range, the computer and software has made them work better and faster but we are still moving metal and there are limits to that. So me doing the same things as I did 25-30 yrs ago is all on me. And I’m not the same as I was then. That’s the problem with a lot of us, the work is the same, we do it slightly differently but not anywhere different enough that we can’t adjust. But programing the code, that’s changed dramatically. And that’s even harder to adjust to, that you constantly have to learn all the new tools, which work different than the old tools. You have to start over. And that’s a bitch. I’ve done that twice now but at a younger age and still using a lot of the same skills. The point is that as we age shit gets harder and harder. Some can adapt OK, most have a tough time. And none of this is made easier by our health that’s aging as well.
    But my big question is why the fuck do I have to work till I die?
    Those three asswipes at shitgibbon’s golf club, fucking up the VA when they should stick to drooling in a cup didn’t work anywhere near a hard as I’ve had to and I know people that make me look like I’ve never worked a day in my life. What makes those asswipes special? Well I’ll answer, Not A Fucking Thing. OK one thing. I’ve probably added more to the US than the 3 of them combined. All they’ve done is take. Fucking wankers. Every rethuglican is a wanker.

  127. 127
    Raoul says:

    Just gottta stop by this thread with an oldie but goodie: Fuck Ron Fournier with a red hot poker.

    He’s as bad as a Russian troll farm.

  128. 128
    J R in WV says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    In other news, I found out today that my homeowner’s insurance won’t cover my foundation if it is damaged when Denver Water lays a 54″ water main 15 feet from my house in a month or two.

    So I got that to look forward to.

    If Denver Water lays a water main next to your foundation, Denver Water is responsible for protecting your foundation. If it is damaged, they will have to make it right. Perhaps have an inspection before the work is done, photos, signatures, stamps and seals.

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    Procopius says:

    @low-tech cyclist: You know, it’s funny, but I don’t recall ever seeing a Democratic ad quoting one of those goniffs. I don’t know why not, they say it often enough. Of course, so did Obama, and everybody agreed not to quote him, and luckily the Tea Party saved us from his desire. Of course, maybe there are Democrats who have used those quotes to good effect. I really don’t see very many political ads here.

  130. 130
    Procopius says:

    @MisterForkbeard: There probably was a study. There have been lots of studies and lots of people claiming to have offered lots of money (they lie). Having spent time on my grandfather’s farm I think the reasons more likely are:
    1. They live in cities or towns. They don’t have any idea there are jobs open somewhere out in the country miles from where they live and with no regular transportation.
    2. They don’t have any idea what the job requires, what the actual work entails. They assume it’s hard, hot, dusty, and sweaty.
    3. The jobs are seasonal, i.e. temporary. If they went to work on those jobs they might miss out on an opening that comes up for a year-’round job in their own neighborhood.

    I know it’s more pleasing to conservatives/libertarians/bigots to assume the unemployed are too lazy/wimpish to actually do a “real” day’s work.

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